Re: OT: Top Posting
Cindy Sue Causey (12024-05-15): > PS Afterthought is that email signatures are another of that widely > accepted netiquette set of standards. You can add the “Re: ” to that list. It is the sequence of four octets 0x52, 0x65, 0x3a, 0x20, and nothing else. The MUAs who write “RE: ” are wrong. The MUAs who write “Re : ” are wrong. The MUAs who write “AW: ” are wrong. The MUAs who put it in base64 are wrong. It is not a string that is designed to be internationalized, we cannot expect every MUA to know every stupid local or vanity variant of “Re: ”. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: OT: Top Posting
Cindy Sue Causey (12024-05-15): > Best as I was able to discern from the Net [0], 72 characters is the > magic number for line length because 4 extra characters are added to > both ends when e.g. git processes submissions. Makes good common sense > to me. Git is an order of magnitude younger than the limit at 72 characters. > PS I thought it was 80. Guess it was about those extra 8 characters. It is 80 but you anticipate that people will be adding “> ” in front of your lines. > "Pretty well agreed upon..." That's implying that unspoken list > standards are really not users "picking on each other." Listserv > standards is a concept that has evolved over decades for rational > reasons as Developer and User communications evolved. Indeed. > It's easy to mess up badly while moving emails around As a general rule, GUIs suck at anything but trivial tasks. > Evolution appears to do some form of maybe symlinking instead of > downloading so everything is available almost immediately seconds after > the first time Evolution is ever fired up. The IMAP protocol is designed to let us manipulate mails directly on the server without downloading the bulk of them. A lot of GUI MUA are still designed around the old paradigm where mails are downloaded, and turned it into some kind of cache: it rarely works well. Manipulate mails directly on the server. Have a backup. If your server is often down and accessing the mails is urgent, have a local *copy* of it. > reach back a limited time span into history before I a-sume Gmail cut > off access to touching older emails. If you want mail that works well, start by avoiding services meant for the lowest common denominator of the general public. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: OT: Top Posting
Greg Wooledge (12024-05-14): > Usenet news. For people in this culture, there is a well-defined set > of "netiquette" rules -- plain text messages, inline quoting with "> " > citation characters, lines limited to ~72 characters, etc. I slightly disagree with this wording: you make it sound like we follow the rules just because they are there. Not so: we follow the rules because they make sense, because they make conversations more fluid: - Limiting to 72 characters was good because a lot of terminals were 80 columns, and it is still good because longer lines are hard to read but mail software still is not smart enough to rewrap text by the mile but not code. - Trimmed interleaved quoting presents to the reader the exact information they need in the order they need it to understand the reply and what it is about. In summary, the hackers culture expects the sender to spend a little effort into making the mail easy to read for the recipient(s) while the culture of the general population expects the sender to make as little effort as possible and the recipient(s) to bear the burden that the software in between cannot take, i.e. most of it. And the “(s)” tells us which culture is more efficient and why. > The second culture are Windows users who grew up with Microsoft products > in their school or workplace. In this culture, top-posting is the norm, > and inline quoting is nigh impossible. Messages are often sent in either > HTML or markdown format. Messages in Markdown in the Windows world? I have never seen it. > The best course of action in this case is to drop it Indeed. But we can still discuss cultural issues relevant to mailing-lists around it. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Dovecot correct ownership for logs
Alain D D Williams (12024-05-14): > PS: check the dictionary definition of "literally". I think you should have checked first that it makes the point you want to make and not the opposite: 2. (degree, figuratively, proscribed, contranym) Used non-literally as an intensifier for figurative statements: virtually, so to speak (often considered incorrect; see usage notes) 3. (colloquial) Used to intensify or dramatize non-figurative statements. 4. (colloquial) Used as a generic downtoner: just, merely. <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/literally> 2. in effect : virtually—used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally> * used to emphasize what you are saying: * simply or just: <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/literally> Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: How to run automatically a script as soon root login
Mario Marietto (12024-05-13):
> The command iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -s 192.168.1.5 -j MASQUERADE
> doesn't work if invoked as a user,it says "you must be root". So,as
> user,the script seems to be working fine like this :
>
> function jumpto
> {
> label=$1
> cmd=$(sed -n "/$label:/{:a;n;p;ba};" $0 | grep -v ':$')
> eval "$cmd"
> exit
> }
You seem to be investing a lot of effort into a fragile solution to
emulate a deprecated execution control primitive.
Regards,
--
Nicolas George
Re: How to run automatically a script as soon root login
Richmond (12024-05-13): > sudo bash -c "echo 1 > hello" Use sh for that. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: How to run automatically a script as soon root login
to...@tuxteam.de (12024-05-13): > That's like slicing your morning baguette with the chainsaw. Worse than that, it will only work from an X11 environment. Certainly not at boot. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: How to run automatically a script as soon root login
Dan Ritter (12024-05-13): > Mario Marietto wrote:> If you run > > sudo echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward > > then the shell you are running it from will run "sudo echo 1" > and then try to put the output in that file. Other way around: the shell first tries to redirect the output to the file and then (if it succeeds) runs sudo that way. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: How to run automatically a script as soon root login
Stefan Monnier (12024-05-13): > > echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward > > > > work only if I'm root. It does not work using sudo. > This doesn't sound right. Maybe you should investigate why you're > seeing this behavior, rather than work around the problem. > > `sudo` *is* root. No need to “investigate”, the answer is obvious: in sudo foo > bar … the > bar comes before the sudo. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Installing testing on Acer Aspire 315
Paul Scott (12024-05-01): > I read that I should try a more complete image which I am downloading > (jigdo) now. Waste of time. The drivers are either in the kernel image or in individual packages, you can install them on top of what you have. > I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions, Check the PCI ids of your Ethernet controller. Download the kernel image you are considering, check if any of its modules matches these ids. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: *****SPAM***** Marking as spam [was: *****SPAM***** Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian]
rtnetz...@windstream.net (12024-04-18): > As I understand what he wrote, the SPAM tag is added after the message leaves > his control. I very much doubt it, we would see “*SPAM* Re:” rather than “Re: *SPAM*”. And his recent “Sorry” mail was not tagged. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/04/msg00294.html Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: *****SPAM***** Marking as spam [was: *****SPAM***** Re: LibreOffice removed from Debian]
Hans (12024-04-18): > As I can not fix it You can manually remove “*SPAM*” from the mail when you reply. You could even automate it on your end. -- Nicolas George
Re: Automatic reboot on kernel crash in Debian 12 - how?
Michael Kjörling (12024-04-16): > Are you saying that the settings themselves are reasonable for the > purpose, and that this particular crash just happened to be such a one > that no software running on the system in question can reasonably help > with that scenario? No, unfortunately I do not have the gift of divination, it would be convenient. I am saying that you cannot use software to protect yourself entirely from software bugs. > This happened on a VM that I can't directly influence the hardware > configuration of (a commercially provided VPS), but I should be able > to jury-rig something using the provider's API if necessary. You probably can. But first check if your VM has an emulated hardware watchdog. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Automatic reboot on kernel crash in Debian 12 - how?
Michael Kjörling (12024-04-16): > However, this morning I woke up to one of those systems showing a > kernel crash dump and being frozen. Unfortunately the first part of > the crash dump had scrolled past so I couldn't tell what class of > problem caused the crash. > > Do I need to set some more settings to ensure that the system will > automatically reboot on a panic? If so, what? If the crash was bad enough to freeze the kernel before it could trigger the reboot, there is nothing the software can do. You need a hardware watchdog. If your motherboard has one, just install and enable the corresponding daemon, and check it works by SIGSTOPing it. If your motherboard does not have one, you can probably DIY one from a RPi or an Arduino. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: config files - newline possible?
Hans (12024-04-11): > But can this be done in config-files, too? Depends entirely on the software reading the config file. Some will use \, some will use something else, some will offer no solution. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Root password strength
Jan Krapivin (12024-03-19): > The thing is my password is very easy now, and i haven't thought about > *"automated > connection attempts"*, that sounds rather... scary? My password is easy > because i am not afraid of direct physical access to the computer. Hi. Do you have some kind of remote access enabled or do you intend to in the near future? If not, then you do not need to worry. Even less if you have a firewall to block any service that might appear by mistake. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Hyphen-minus passwd
Greg Wooledge (12024-03-07): > Looks like you want the -- to separate options from non-option arguments, Of course. > What threw me for a > few moments was that "-salt username" is a single option with argument. > I wasn't expecting "username" to be the salt. It looked like a non-option > argument at first. Yes, that is super weird, possibly a mistake. All the more reason to have the original poster clarify their needs. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Hyphen-minus passwd
Lee (12024-03-07): > You're going to rag on him for not copy-pasting EXACTLY when you could > have just told him the standard way to get a leading hyphen accepted > on the command line is to backslash escape it!?? Uh, yes, of course. And that would be best even if your answer was not wrong. -- Nicolas George
Re: Hyphen-minus passwd
Lee (12024-03-07):
> $ openssl passwd -6 -salt username \\-password
> $6$username$7 ..etc..
Wrong answer: this gives the encrypted string for “\-password”, not for
“-password”.
~ $ openssl passwd -6 -salt username \\-password
$6$username$7Vzj6uFI0bs770qb.tIdqyMDbBWCoF93TKbZ7GSmU0ktiCcMu5rxgjpumDUram2ulYhVlWycvUMf1jGKbu8sC1
~ $ perl -e 'print crypt("-password", "\$6\$username\$"), "\n"'
$6$username$FCvGwi21H/uVp89BtnZHWQsL.vZKajZ3lRbfB7Jnjr2C.5qBgx7TB3Ul3PbcyCIArts/C2lfQgYOLp418oH7C0
~ $ perl -e 'print crypt("\\-password", "\$6\$username\$"), "\n"'
$6$username$7Vzj6uFI0bs770qb.tIdqyMDbBWCoF93TKbZ7GSmU0ktiCcMu5rxgjpumDUram2ulYhVlWycvUMf1jGKbu8sC1
--
Nicolas George
Re: Hyphen-minus passwd
Computer Planet (12024-03-07): > How can I create this password with a hyphen in front? > > # openssl passwd -6 -salt username -password > > This is the response message when I try: > passwd: Unknown option: -passwd Hi. No it is not. Start by copy-pasting EXACTLY what is in your terminal. Also, do not be root when you do not need to. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Spam from the list?
Hans (12024-03-06): > I am using this spamfilter now for several years. It should be well trained > and > almost until about 4 months I never had any problems with it. Hi. It is probably not the reason for you problem now, but it is important to note that in the “several years” since your spam filter was trained, spammers have not stayed idle, they have learned, they have refined their mail to bypass the most common protections. And in turn, protections have evolved to fight the new stealthiness of spammers. Spammers also have changed topics, they used to sell pills, now they sell cryptocurrencies. If your Bayesian filter is trained to recognize mails that sell pills, they might accept mails that seem to talk about technical points of computing. So if your own mail filter has not evolved, it is not surprising that it becomes progressively less efficient. > Am Mittwoch, 6. März 2024, 12:22:53 CET schrieb Brad Rogers: Please remember not to top-post. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: where are the crontab files in Trixie?
Max Nikulin (12024-02-28): > I am in doubts if it is a task for cron. Wouldn't udev rules be better? Or even the good old simple way that still works: install modulename command... This command instructs modprobe to run your command instead of inserting the module in the kernel as normal. The command can be any shell command: this allows you to do any kind of complex processing you might wish. For example, if the module "fred" works better with the module "barney" already installed (but it doesn't depend on it, so modprobe won't automatically load it), you could say "install fred /sbin/modprobe barney; /sbin/modprobe --ignore-install fred", which would do what you wanted. Note the --ignore-install, which stops the second modprobe from running the same install command again. See also remove below. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Selective rotation of journald logs
Max Nikulin (12024-02-23): > I am realizing that the following is not an answer to the asked question. > The thread is no more than useless arguing anyway. > > Some ideas that might be useful in close cases: > - a bunch of filtering options and --output=export as a part of log rotation > to have selective copy of the journal in an alternative directory Hi. You know what? I think it is exactly the right answer. I think the principle for this thing is: journald maintains the current logs in a best-effort manner, but when it comes to archival, the needs and manners are too varied, it does not try to provide a ready-to-use solution, but journalctl provides all the tools necessary to implement what we want. If I am right, if it is indeed the way it is meant to be used, I just wish somebody would have bothered writing it in so many words at the start of a documentation. Thanks. -- Nicolas George
Re: Selective rotation of journald logs
Mariusz Gronczewski (12024-02-23): > Like, really what kind of person gets angry when they get too much > details in instruction? What kind of person writes pages of angry mail when the details are not liked? -- Nicolas George
Re: Selective rotation of journald logs
Greg Wooledge (12024-02-23): > Have you even *read* this mailing list? Most of the people who ask > for help here lack experience that you might consider "baby sysadmin" > level, and would greatly appreciate the explanations. It is usually quite easy to tell the difference by the phrasing and accuracy of the question. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Selective rotation of journald logs
Greg Wooledge (12024-02-23): > What was "blind" about his anaylsis? It looked pretty well thought out > to me. He showed actual examples of how space-inefficient it is, and > provided a theoretical example of how one misbehaved service could > flush out the important logs of well-behaved services. The selective blindness here is to look only at the bad things. The drawbacks mentioned exist, but they are in part there for reasons, in order to fix the issues of the previous solutions. An analysis that mentions only the bad things and conclude to recommend using the previous solutions without even discussing their own drawbacks is not worth our time. > If anything, the person who's blindly following a path is *you*. You're > looking to do something that multiple people have said is not possible, Multiple? > and when they offer you an alternative, your claws come out. When somebody spends one line answering the question and then pages “offering an alternative” by explaining things a baby sysadmin would already know, I deduce they are not much above the level of baby sysadmin themselves, and it cancels any trust I could have put in the one-line answer. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Selective rotation of journald logs
Mariusz Gronczewski (12024-02-23): > So to say it short: It is horrid. Generic bashing of systemd in favor of a blind cult of the good old ways are not what I am looking for either, and the unbalanced tone of your reply makes it look like precisely that. -- Nicolas George
Re: Selective rotation of journald logs
Mariusz Gronczewski (12024-02-23): > That is not a feature systemd's logging have. That is what it seems, but I would like second opinions. > You'd have to make a > rsyslogd rule to put it in one directory Thanks, but my question was about systemd's infrastructure. Answers about the old systlog/logrotate infrastructure are a waste of time since I already know how they work and they are amply documented elsewhere. -- Nicolas George
Selective rotation of journald logs
Hi. It might be an obvious question, but I do not manage to find the obvious answer: How do I tell systemd's logging system to keep authentication logs for one year and mail logs for one month? Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Does "LC_ALL=C" work on all shells?
Gremlin (12024-02-13): > Oh like debian does? > > cat /etc/default/locale > # File generated by update-locale > LANG=en_US.UTF-8 > LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8 > LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 I do not observe this, even after “sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales”. Can you explain how you reached this state? -- Nicolas George
Re: Does "LC_ALL=C" work on all shells?
Will Mengarini (12024-02-13): > * Greg Wooledge [24-02/13=Tu 15:59 -0500]: > > In csh, you need to use env. Like this: > What Greg posted also works, because it's an > invocation of the 'env' command, not csh syntax. Yes. What made Greg's statement false was not the fact that it does not work but the verb “need”. > What you posted also works, but it runs the command in a subshell of > csh, so I doubt it gains efficiency over running the command under env. env is also executed in a subshell, but unlike what I posted, env will also require an exec() and probably some dynamic linking. -- Nicolas George
Re: Does "LC_ALL=C" work on all shells?
John Conover (12024-02-13): > > variable LC_ALL to "C" inline of the command e.g.: ^ > egrep ALL .bashrc > LC_ALL=C > > set | egrep ALL > LC_ALL=C > > dash > set | egrep ALL You missed part of the question, what you are showing is not “inline of the command”. -- Nicolas George
Re: Does "LC_ALL=C" work on all shells?
Greg Wooledge (12024-02-13): > This syntax works in all the Bourne family shells, which is all of the > above *except* csh. > > In csh, you need to use env. No, ( setenv var something ; command ) works with csh. > % env LC_ALL=C apt install > > This works in all shells, at the cost of being slightly less efficient. And even without a shell. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Does "LC_ALL=C" work on all shells?
Franco Martelli (12024-02-13): > This is useful when it's needed to submit a bug report or to speak with > other people in one international mailing list like this :) (apropos sorry > for my English). Your English does not look bad. And therefore you would probably be better making this the default. Translations of software are often mediocre or worse. (I remember when the French translation of df broke the alignment of columns.) Use the software in its original version and you will not have to guess if you misunderstood or if the translator did. > So the question is: does anybody know if this syntax works on all shells > other than bash? csh, korn, dash, zsh … apt-get install csh csh LC_CTYPE=C ls /doesnotexist ^D apt-get purge csh Repeat with other shells. And then tell us what you found out. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Combining Distro DVD's
Steve Matzura (12024-02-12): > I thought it'd be a nice idea to combine any and all distribution media for > a release into a single medium--a USB drive, of course. I'd start by > creating my USB drive by extracting the first DVD to it, thereby ensuring > the boot block and boot material is where it should be. But then what do I > do with the additional media? Surely there will be some files with the same > name among the individual pieces of media, and some will probably contain > the same info while others probably will not. What do I have to watch for > and make sure I don't overwrite, but add to, when extracting files from the > additional disks to bag it all up and make a single medium which contains > everything in one place? If the live media are compatible with GRUB's loopback mechanism, you can follow these instructions: https://nsup.org/~george/comp/live_iso_usb/grub_hybrid.html https://nsup.org/~george/comp/live_iso_usb/ Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: xterm PRIMARY and CLIPBOARD selection [was: Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim]
Max Nikulin (12024-02-07): > It may be a convention for applications other than terminals, however I am > unsure what "standard" means for terminals. I have not said it is more “standard for terminals”, I have that it is more “standard” fullstop. It is more standard by the virtue of having worked for decades, C-Ins S-Ins S-Del existed way before the C-C C-V C-X tryptich, and still working today in most contexts. > Thanks, it seems, it works in bookworm. Several years ago xterm did not > support ownership of independent CLIPBOARD and PRIMARY simultaneously. It > was a workaround for the following scenario: > > - select some text > - copy it to CLIPBOARD > - select another fragment of text (PRIMARY) > - switch to another application > - paste from PRIMARY > - paste from CLIPBOARD Works for me. The author of XTerm is quite reactive if you can explain the issue clearly, I am not surprised it was fixed. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Copy from Firefox and paste into Terminal with Vim
Max Nikulin (12024-02-07):
> Shift Ctrl C:
CtrlInsert is the standard counterpart to ShiftInsert.
> exec-formatted("sh -c 'xsel --output --primary |
> \
> exec xsel --input --clipboard'", PRIMARY)\n\
copy-selection(CLIPBOARD)
… is simpler.
Regards,
--
Nicolas George
Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
hw (12024-01-31): > Well, I doubt it. Well, doubt it all you want. In the meantime, we will continue to use it. Did not read the rest, not interested in red herring nightmare scenarios. -- Nicolas George
Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
hw (12024-01-30): > Yes, and how much effort and how reliable is doing that? Very little effort and probably more reliable than hardware RAID with closed-source hardware. -- Nicolas George
Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
hw (12024-01-29): > Ok in that case, hardware RAID is a requirement for machines with UEFI That is not true, you can still put the RAID in a partition and keep the boot partitions in sync manually or with scripts. -- Nicolas George
Re: Playing a sound when initrd wants a password
David Wright (12024-01-26): > It looks as if the root directory is decrypted by > /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/cryptroot > and, from its prereqs, that this script makes sure it > is the last to run from scripts/local-top, by actually > being run from scripts/local-block/cryptroot. > (Correct me if I'm wrong: I'm a tyro in here.) > > I notice that there is a slew of empty directories in > /etc/initramfs-tools/scripts/, and I can only assume > that anything you drop into these gets merged with > those in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/ when > the initramfs is built. > > There is no scripts/local-block/ directory under /etc/, > possibly because it's not intended that you interfere > with the "ordering trick" mentioned above. Thanks for pulling on this plate of spaghetti for me. > So I would try dropping a logging/printing script into > /etc/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/ in order to see > whether it runs, and at the right time. The script > could also look and see what support is already > available for making noises. That would run the script just before cryptsetup is called. That is almost what I want, but the small gap is blocking: cryptsetup might ask for the password several times (if the user types it wrong), and the sound must be played again too in that case. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Playing a sound when initrd wants a password
Curt (12024-01-27): > (Anyway, this is what my personal robot explained to me and may be subject to > imperfection and error.) I started explaining all the ways this answer is obviously nonsensical, but I got fed up and deleted it. If I wanted the answers from a stupid AI, I could have asked directly. I wrote to this list in the small hope of having an answer from somebody competent who knows what about the issue. -- Nicolas George, starting a list
Re: Playing a sound when initrd wants a password
Curt (12024-01-26): > A play-sound.timer unit file in /usr/lib/systemd/system-generators/initrd > directory. I see no mention of this directory on the web. Where did yo find the idea of using it, I want to check the doc. And what should I put in the timer file to express “when a password is asked”? In fact, what relation do you see between a timer and cryptsetup asking for a password? -- Nicolas George
Re: Playing a sound when initrd wants a password
Curt (12024-01-26): > I guess a systemd timer unit constitutes a hack. A systemd timer in the initrd? Can you elaborate? -- Nicolas George
Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
hw (12024-01-26): > How do you make the BIOS read the EFI partition when it's on mdadm > RAID? I have not yet tested but my working hypothesis is that the firmware will just ignore the RAID and read the EFI partition: with the scheme I described, the GPT points to the EFI partition and the EFI partition just contains the data. Of course, it only works with RAID1, where the data on disk is the data in RAID. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Playing a sound when initrd wants a password
Hi. Yet another strange question. Is there a supported¹ way to have cryptsetup play a specific sound when it asks the password for the root partition from the initrd? I think brttty (braille) is already running at this point (no occasion to test yet), but a recognizable sound would be something nice to propose I think. Thanks. 1: No need to suggest I can hack the initrd to replace askpass by a script that plays the sound before running the real askpass, I already thought of it. I would like something robust, avoid hacks. -- Nicolas George
Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
Thomas Schmitt (12024-01-24):
> The Debian installation and live ISOs have MBR partitions with only a
> flimsy echo of GPT. There is a GPT header block and an entries array.
> But it does not get announced by a Protective MBR. Rather they have two
> partitions of which one is meant to be invisible to EFI ("Empty") and
> one is advertised as EFI partition:
>
> $ /sbin/fdisk -l debian-12.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> ...
> Disklabel type: dos
> ...
> Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
> debian-12.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso1 *0 1286143 1286144 628M 0 Empty
> debian-12.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso2 4476 23451 18976 9.3M ef EFI
> (FAT-12
>
> So any system which boots this ISO from USB stick does not rely on
> the presence of a valid GPT.
You seem to be assuming that the system will first check sector 0 to
parse the MBR and then, if the MBR declares a GPT sector try to use the
GPT.
I think it is the other way around on modern systems: it will first
check sector 1 for a GPT header, and only if it fails check sector 0. Or
not check sector 0 at all if legacy mode has been removed.
> This layout was invented by Matthew J. Garrett for Fedora and is still
> the most bootable of all possible weird ways to present boot stuff for
> legacy BIOS and EFI on USB stick in the same image.
I think I invented independently something similar.
https://nsup.org/~george/comp/live_iso_usb/grub_hybrid.html
Regards,
--
Nicolas George
Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
Andy Smith (12024-01-26): > Going back to my question from 2020 about what people do to provide > redundancy for EFI System Partition, do I take it then that you > have had no issues with just putting ESP in MD RAID-1? I have not had the occasion to test since two days ago when Thomas's remarks made me realize it was possible. > The "firmware may write to it" thing was raised as a concern by a > few people,but always a theoretical one from what I could see. Now that I think a little more, this concern is not only unconfirmed, it is rather absurd. The firmware would never write in parts of the drive that might contain data. At worst, it is possible to cover the RAID header with a dummy partition: label: gpt unit: sectors table-length: 24 sector-size: 512 first-lba: 8 1 : start=8, size=2040, type=---- 2 : start=2048, size=30712, type=lvm Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
Tim Woodall (12024-01-26): > Until your UEFI bios writes to the disk before the system has booted. Hi. Have you ever observed an UEFI firmware doing that? Without explicit admin instructions? Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
Thomas Schmitt (12024-01-24): > i cannot make qualified proposals for the GRUB question, but stumble over > your technical statements. It was by far the most interesting reply. Better somebody who really understood the question, realized their limitations and knowingly replies with an interesting tangential than the opposite. > Although it would be unusually small, it is possible to have a GPT of > only 4 KiB of size: > - 512 bytes for Protective MBR (the magic number of GPT) > - 512 bytes for the GPT header block > - 3 KiB for an array of 24 partition entries. > > Question is of course, whether any partition editor is willing to create > such a small GPT. The internet says that sfdisk has "table-length" among > its input "Header lines". So it would be a matter of learning and > experimenting. Interesting. Indeed, “table-length: 4” causes sfdisk to only write 3 sectors at the beginning and 2 at the end. I checked it really does not write elsewhere. That makes it possible to use full-disk RAID on a UEFI boot drive. Very good news. > > we have to partition them and put the EFI system partition outside > > them. > Do you mean you partition them DOS-style ? No, GPT. More and more firmwares will only boot with GPT. I think I met only once a firmware that booted UEFI, 32 bits, with a MBR. GPT ├─EFI └─RAID └─LVM (of course) Now, thanks to you, I know I can do: GPT ┊ RAID └───┤ ├─EFI └─LVM It is rather ugly to have the same device be both a RAID with its superblock in the hole between GPT and first partition and the GPT in the hole before the RAID superblock, but it serves its purpose: the EFI partition is kept in sync over all devices. It still requires setting the non-volatile variables, though. Thanks. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
Franco Martelli (12024-01-24): > If I run "grub-install" with multiple device I got > > # LCALL=C grub-install /dev/sd[a-d] > grub-install: error: More than one install device?. > > maybe it is a deprecated action for grub to install to multiple device, so > this should it be investigated? Do you believe it used to work? To the better of my knowledge it never did. -- Nicolas George
Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
Felix Miata (12024-01-24): > Technically, quite true. However, OS and user data are very different. User > data > recreation and/or restoration can be as painful as impossible, justifying > RAID. OS > can be reinstalled rather easily in a nominal amount of time. A 120G SSD can > hold > multiple OS installations quite easily. A spare 120G SSD costs less than a > petrol > fillup. I stopped putting OS on RAID when I got my first SSD. My current > primary > PC has 5 18G OS installations, all bootable much more quickly than finding a > suitable USB stick to rescue boot from. Looks you are confusing RAID with backups. Yes, OS can be reinstalled, but that still makes “a nominal amount of time” during which your computer is not available. Your “spare” SSD would be more usefully used in a RAID array than corroding on your shelves. -- Nicolas George
Re: Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
Charles Curley (12024-01-24): > Perhaps a script based on: Thanks, I know how to make scripts. My question ported specifically on making it automatic. > Although I found it simpler (and faster) to have all my system stuff on > an SSD, and the RAID on four HDDs. Grub goes on the SSD and that's that. If the SSD dies, your system does not boot. Somewhat wasting the benefit of RAID. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Automatically installing GRUB on multiple drives
Hi. We have drives in mdadm RAID1. Since they are potential boot drives, we have to put a GPT on them. Since mdadm can only put its superblock at the end of the device (1.0), at the beginning of the device (1.1) and 4 Ko from the beginning (1.2), but they still have not invented 1.3 to have the metadata 17 Ko from the beginning or the end, which would be necessary to be compatible with GPT, we have to partition them and put the EFI system partition outside them. To keep things logical, we have the same partitions on all drives, including the EFI one. And GRUB is perfectly capable of booting the system (inside the LVM) inside the RAID inside the partition. Which leads me to wonder if there is an automated way to install GRUB on all the EFI partitions. The manual way is not that bad, but automated would be nice. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: To partition or not to partition MD arrays (Was Re: smartctl cannotaccess my storage, need syntax help)
Franco Martelli (12024-01-19): > > One case against using partitions on mdraid: if your array gets messed > > up, you get to recreate those partition tables yourself and that's just > > hilarious if you don't have a backup. Happened to a friend of mine, > > reason was a UPS brownout. > How can I get a backup of mdadm RAID partition? You do not need a backup of the RAID partitions, that would be terribly inefficient. You need a backup of the partition table. Which, if you are organized, you already have in $notes_dir/$hostname/install.md as something that looks like this: ``` sudo sfdisk /dev/sdX < signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: 512e vs 4K sector confusion
Nicholas Geovanis (12024-01-15): > In your dd commands that moved these filesystems, did you specify ibs= > and/or obs= > ? > If so, what values did you use? Why do you ask this information? How do you think it will be useful? -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: smartctl cannot access my storage, need syntax help
Hi. Andy Smith (12024-01-13): > As usual you have not bothered to show us what you are talking about > (the email from smartd) And that leads you to write a patient and detailed answer, so surely it was the best way to proceed. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Fn keys not working in Debian 12 on Lenovo Thinkpad T450s
Rodolfo Medina (12024-01-11): > As my machine has a dual boot with MS Windows, F2 and F3 keyboard keys work > fine in Windows in lowering and increasing sound volume, and F1 for muting it > etcetera F4, F5, F6..., but in Debian they don't seem to work. Hi. Try testing them with xev. Show what you get if you cannot read it. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: playing CDROM music questions
Brad Rogers (12024-01-09): > Seen it happen; Long filenames, mixed case, and files saved at the > beginning of a session of copying multiple files would be lost because > the FAT was filled, and overwritten from the start by files added later > in the session. > > We are talking in excess of 20,000 (not difficult to achieve with > over 1000 CDs to rip) files here, mixed case, and long file names, all. Pictures or it did not happen. -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: playing CDROM music questions
Brad Rogers (12024-01-09): > Depends; I ended up buying three smaller sticks, because the > limitations of the file system meant that the File Allocation Table > got filled up wy before the larger capacity memory sticks did. The USB sticks we were discussing in this thread are way below the limitations of FAT. > Even with the smaller sticks, I had to use all upper case, and stick to > 8.3 names for the files, otherwise the FAT still got overloaded. What are you talking about? FAT does not get “overloaded” by long filenames. -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: playing CDROM music questions
Haines Brown (12024-01-08): > and that seems to have fixed the buffer problem. Nice. > The scripts folder is in my path. I holds many commands I regularly > use. > > Turns out that the "play" command was earlier taken by another > application. So I changed the command from play to Play, and now it > works without the cache problem. The Play command is: I personally choose to have both a scripts directory not in my $PATH, where I call the commands with explicit path, and a ~/bin directory at the beginning of my path. > mplayer /dev/sr0 cdda:// > > The option -cdrom-device is default and so is optional. Mplayer works > fine without it. The option “-cdrom-device” cannot be the default because it is not self-contained. It is possible “-cdrom-device /dev/sr0” is the default on your system. But if you give the argument to the option without the option, then I think that if you read mplayer's output more carefull you will find it tried to play it as a file, failed and skipped it. > where can find an inexpensive drive to hold about 1000 cds and find As was pointed out, we are looking at between 60 giga-octets lossy-but-transparent and 500 giga-octets lossless, so between a mid-sized USB stick and a small external hard drive. Whether you consider it inexpensive is your estimate. > the time do all the converting? ㋡ Eh, this one is obvious: while you listen to them. You are writing a script to play your CD: just make the script a little more powerful and it will rip them at the same time. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: VAX emulation/simulation (was Re: systemd-timesyncd)
Bret Busby (12024-01-09): > Whilst, as I previously made the point, this is all off-topic for a Debian > operating system users mailing list, one (and, only one) of the applications > of version numbers as part of file descriptors, with (in the case of > VAX/VMS) up to the last seven versions of a file, being retained, was a > useful tool for software developers, but, responsible software development, > and, especially, the teaching of responsible software development, have been > abandoned, over the last decades. Could it that “responsible software development” have not been abandoned, like old geezers like to pretend, but rather has moved to using solutions that do not suffer the ugly limitations of implementations in the kernel? Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: playing CDROM music questions
Michael Kjörling (12024-01-08): > Note that while CD-DA disks are technically CD-ROM disks (compact disk > read only media), in typical usage "CD-ROM" is taken to mean a CD > which contains _data organized as files within a file system_, often > an ISO-9660 file system typically with extensions (Rockridge, Juliet, > ...). It is worse than that: compared to data CDs, audio CDs lack one layer of error-correcting code and the synchronization necessary to tell the position of a particular sector. This is why tools like cdparanoia exist: between one read and the next they seek back a few sectors and check that the overlap matches. But on the other hand, an audio CD can contain up to 807 mega-octets of audio, compared to only 703 for a data CD. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: playing CDROM music questions
Haines Brown (12024-01-08): > I find that often (such as wiki.debian.org/CDDVD) I'm told to mount Please do not remove the protocol part from the URL, it makes auto-detection and copy-pasting more annoying. > the cdrive. I do not see this page suggesting to mount audio CDs. Audio CDs do not contain a files system, nor do they contain the synchronization information necessary for a reliable read. There is a hack in the kernel to mount them and present audio track as PCM files but it is a hack, I do not know if it is enabled by default and I do not recommend too use it. > But I can play cds without mounting. Wny is mounting > sometimes recommended? Either people are wrong to recommend it or you are mistaken in thinking they recommend it. > I wanted to use aplay to play music on cdrom, but have concluded > it cannot be done in any straightforward way. Why not? Because aplay requires the data to be available as a plain stream of octets and the kernel does not provide that interface for audio CDs. > The mplayer command $ mplayer -cdrom-device /dev/sr0 cdda:// works. On > my system it relies on alsa. However, about every 15 seconds the the > process stops for about one second ane the drive LED flashes on. In > the mplayer configuration I do D not see anything about buffer size. Search for “cache” in the man page. > To simplify my life, I created a ~/scripts/play file. It is in my > PATH. The file has this content: > > #!/bin/sh > > mplayer /dev/sr0 cdda:// > > exit 0 > > But the $ play command only returns the aplay -help info. Why won't > the script work? You forgot the “-cdrom-device” option. And judging from what you are saying you need to learn how $PATH works. But unless you cannot spare 60 megaoctets somewhere, save yourself a lot of trouble: just run cdparanoia -B then opusenc and put back the audio CD at the back of the shelf where it belongs. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: URLs in Mutt
Paul M Foster (12024-01-01): > Of course, it doesn't fix the retarded way Mutt handles links. To the better of my knowledge, Mutt does not handle links at all. Please refrain from calling it retarded. > For those > familiar with Mutt, it allows you to view the file with numbers referring > to each link. Then you get a screen with just the numbered links. Here's > the fun part: if the link you want is, say, number 4, when you get to the > screen with only numbered links, the number 4 link is often some other > link. You have to push each link around the one you want to the browser > until you find the one you want. It's a pain. What you describe does not look like a feature of Mutt but the combination of two configuration options to use external programs, one to display HTML as text (as I described elsewhere in the thread) and one to catch URLs in the text, probably urlview (mentioned by somebody else). No need to blame Mutt at all. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: URLs in Mutt
fxkl4...@protonmail.com (12024-01-01): > actually the question was > " what is wrapping the lines on my incoming emails, and how do I fix it " > please try to keep up This was not a reply to the original mail. You might consider using a MUA with proper threading to better understand what is going on. -- Nicolas George
Re: URLs in Mutt
gene heskett (12024-01-01): > Most browsers to well with such as long as the link is surrounded by > the left-right arrows delineate the links contents even if it is wrapped to > several lines on your screen. Please try to keep up with the context of the discussion, we were talking about links displayed by “lynx -dump”. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: URLs in Mutt
Greg Wooledge (12024-01-01): > It's been my experience that the hyperlinks I'm meant to click are so > long that they wrap around the terminal width multiple times. This > makes copy/pasting them tedious at best, and even then it still > sometimes fails for me. Surprising. The graphical web browsers I know are actually very tolerant of spurious newline characters inserted in pasted URLs, and I suspect it is on purpose. PDFs from magazines might also have wrapped links. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: URLs in Mutt
Greg Wooledge (12023-12-31): > Have your browser load THAT file. Or just have this: text/html; lynx -force_html -dump %s; copiousoutput in your .mailcap file. Possibly along with: auto_view text/html in the .muttrc. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: grub-efi install on multiple ESPs.
Ram Ramesh (12023-12-23): > I have debian bookworm installed on a raid1 made from /dev/nvme0n1p3 and > /dev/nvme1n1p3. Here are the partitions on the two nvme. > > /dev/nvme0n1p1 = /dev/nvme1n1p1 = 7mb ef02 > /dev/nvme0n1p2 = /dev/nvme1n1p2 = 7mb ef00 (Two distinct ESPs on two > different nvmes) > /dev/nvme0n1p3 = /dev/nvme1n1p3 = 7mb 8300 (Linux RAID) lsblk gives a nice readable version of this info. > I am currently using /dev/nvme*1*n1p2 as /boot/efi and groub-efi is > installed there. > > I like to also install grub-efi on /dev/nvme*0*n1p1 to mimic RAID1. My > Google search does not give me a clear way to do it. There are a lot > explanation on how certain things are to be done. Nothing succinctly > describes the grub-install step. Since this is boot and grub, I like to be > sure before I mess up some uefi files and make the system unbootable. > > Can I mount the second esp on /mnt and do a simple grub-install > --efi-directory=/mnt? Or should I undo current /boot/efi mount and mount > second esp there and do a grub-install? Changing the mount on /boot/efi is what I do for that very same use. Note that I observed the new one replaces the old one in the list of boot options: you might need call efobootmgr manually to set up things exactly how you want them, using what grub-install did as a reference. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Test
Vít Smolík (12023-12-23): > Yeah, it is the Code of Conduct, sorry, didn't realize that. Could there be > some SpamAssassin config that we could send to the list-masters, that would > catch theese kinds of messages? Not without catching some legitimate questions and answers too. “Test” is a very common word when diagnosing problems. The best way to deal with that is to ignore the rare honest mistakes and ban deliberate repeat offenders. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Test
Vít Smolík (12023-12-23): > I think there should be added something in the rules stating that you can't > use this mailing list for testing your email client, it's pretty annoying. It is the very first rule: “Non-constructive or off-topic messages, along with other abuses, are not welcome.” And for people who pretend they did notice, it also the seventh rule: “Do not send "test" messages to determine whether your mail client is working.” At this point, people should ignore that person. I could suggest sending them answers that seem legit but will cause them to break their computer, but that would not be nice to people stumbling upon the archives (but probably no worse than the average Ubuntu webforum). Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: systemd and timezone
Jeffrey Walton (12023-12-22): > I've found lack of per-thread timezones and libc's inability to > convert time between timezones a bigger problem than other issues, > like explicitly setting a timezone for a process. Unix API makes an habit of this kind of thing. Often, it is because the feature was not designed from the start, and then it was shoehorned into existing APIs with a global state, changing their behavior in a subtle and dangerous manner. Locales are one of the worst offenders. They are the reason you could get, around the turn of the century, the interactive interpreter for the OCaml language accept “let pi = 3.14;;” and output “val pi : float = 3.”. Yet, (some) localized functions now exist with a _l variant taking a locale_t argument, but no such thing exists for timezone. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: systemd and timezone (was: Re: difference in seconds between two formatted dates ...)
to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-21): > I've sometimes the impression that desktop environments are losing > the concept pf multi-user operating systems and are regreding to > something like Windows 95. Desktop environment and the “modern” applications designed for them had already lost the ability to put back everything in place by quitting and restarting. Now they are losing the concept of multiple users, and they are also losing the ability to run several independent instances of the same program. Desktop environment suck. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: lists
Pocket (12023-12-20): > Ok I will twist their arms and complain to the cops or maybe I should > comtact the DOJ, This kind of sarcasm is not constructive. You send a mail or open a ticket. If they do not fix the issue and do not give a good explanation, you take your mail archives and you move to a mail operator that respects you. If you cannot do that easily, all the more reason to do it. -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: difference in seconds between two formatted dates ...
Greg Wooledge (12023-12-20): > Huh? None of this makes any sense. I salute you for your patience and excellent message. Just a few remarks: > Learn how time works. Then rewrite everything. Fortunately, we do not have to handle relativistic issues à la “meanwhile at the other side of the galaxy”… > Any piece of software that wants to calculate durations needs to work > with epoch times, or something equivalent to epoch times. A small nitpick here NOT RELEVANT TO THE CURRENT DISCUSSION but important if wannabe developers learn things reading you. This is true for long durations, not short durations, with the difference between the two being: is the system allowed to reboot in the middle? If the system might reboot between the beginning and the end, then you are absolutely right, the “wall clock” of Unix systems is the right choice. But if the system cannot reboot unless it makes the duration irrelevant (think: timeout for a network connection), then the right choice is not the wall clock but the monotonic clock. See: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/95399/functions/clock_gettime.html (For shell, the monotinic time is in /proc/uptime) > So, to be completely blunt here, what you want to do is store ALL > timestamps in epoch time format. This could be a string like > "1703082118", or it could be the raw 64-bit integer which this string > represents. Either way's fine, depending on your programming language > and tool set. A format that can be reliably converted with a rather simple algorithm over the contemporary era, like the ISO time syntax, would be acceptable too. Last: a long time ago, I wrote this for French Usenet (and it somehow found its way on this website; I should publish it on my own): https://www.generation-nt.com/reponses/la-gestion-de-l-heure-sous-linux-entraide-500251.html I think it might be of interest, and nowadays LLMs can translate it correctly I guess. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: setting IFS to new line doesn't work while searching?
Greg Wooledge (12023-12-15): > Equally safe, perhaps. Not safer. I don't know those particular perl > modules -- are they included in a standard Debian system, or does > one need to install optional packages? And then there's a learning > curve for them as well. File::Find is a standard module, Version::Compare is packaged. I consider it safer because I factor mistakes in my estimate: if you get the Perl version working without using strange constructs in your code, the odds that it will break on special characters are vanishingly thin. With shell, unless we tested for it, there are chances we forgot a corner case. > By the way, your MUA is adding 1 years to its datestamps. It is called the Holocene calendar, the principle being that everything that happened that might deserve to be expressed as a year in the last 12K years. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_calendar Or possibly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czgOWmtGVGs Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: setting IFS to new line doesn't work while searching?
Greg Wooledge (12023-12-15): > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 01:42:14PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote: > > Also, note that file names can also contain newlines in general. The > > only robust delimiter is the NUL character. > > True. In order to be 100% safe, the OP's code would need to look > more like this: > > readarray -d '' fndar < <( > find "$sdir" ... -printf 'stuff\0' | > sort -z --otherflags > ) > > The -d '' option for readarray requires bash 4.4 or higher. If this > script needs to run on bash 4.3 or older, you'd need to use a loop > instead of readarray. > > This may look a bit inscrutable, but the purpose is to ensure that > a NUL delimiter is used at every step. First, find -printf '...\0' > will print a NUL character after each filename-and-stuff. Second, > sort -z uses NUL as its record separator (instead of newline), and > produces sorted output that also uses NUL. Finally, readarray -d '' > uses the NUL character as its record separator. The final result is > an array containing each filename-and-stuff produced by find, in the > order determined by sort, even if some of the filenames contain > newline characters. It is possible to do it safely in bash plus command-line tools, indeed. But in such a complex case, it is better to use something with a higher-level interface. I am sure File::Find and Version::Compare can let Perl do the same thing in a much safer way. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: setting IFS to new line doesn't work while searching?
Albretch Mueller (12023-12-15):
> sdir="$(pwd)"
> #fndar=($(IFS=$'\n'; find "$sdir" -type f -printf '%P|%TY-%Tm-%Td
> %TI:%TM|%s\n' | sort --version-sort --reverse))
> #fndar=($(IFS='\n'; find "$sdir" -type f -printf '%P|%TY-%Tm-%Td
> %TI:%TM|%s\n' | sort --version-sort --reverse))
> fndar=($(find "$sdir" -type f -printf '%P|%TY-%Tm-%Td %TI:%TM|%s\n' |
> sort --version-sort --reverse))
> fndarl=${#fndar[@]}
> echo "// __ \$fndarl: |${fndarl}|${fndar[0]}"
>
> the array construct ($( ... )) is using the space (between the date
> and the time) also to split array elements, but file names and paths
> may contain spaces, so ($( ... )) should have a way to reset its
> parsing metadata, or, do you know of any other way to get each whole
> -printf ... line out of find as part of array elements?
You set IFS in the subshell, but the subshell is doing nothing related
to IFS, it is just calling find and sort. You need to set IFS on the
shell that does the splitting.
Also, note that file names can also contain newlines in general. The
only robust delimiter is the NUL character.
Also, ditch batch. For simple scripts, do standard shell. For complex
scripts and interactive use, zsh rulz:
fndar=(${(f)"$(...)"})
fndar=(${(ps:\0:)"$(...)"})
fndar=(**/*(O))
(I do not think zsh can sort version numbers easily, though.)
Regards,
--
Nicolas George
Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing to wait for it to respond
to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-14): > I've skimmed some of the answers, and they correspond to your confusing > request. Someone mentions DNS timeouts to rule them out right away (do > you access your RAID over the net? Is DNS resolution involved at all?) He quoted: >> Error creating proxy: Error calling StartServiceByName for >> org.gtk.vfs.GPhoto2VolumeMonitor: Timeout was reached (g-io-error-quark, 24) That means the issue is in the DBus monster moussaka¹. The odds of finding a solution in the current circumstances are vanishingly thin. Regards, -- Nicolas George 1: Some software are a mess of dependencies and calls, like the pipes in a gasworks factory; some software are worse.
Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing towait for it to respond
Pocket (12023-12-13): > If the RAID controller Then use software RAID with a Libre implementation. > I found it is better to just have my data on several backup disks Yeah, backups and RAID are not meant to protect against the same issues, so if you think one replaces the other… > After removing raid, I completely redesigned my network to be more inline > with the howtos and other information. You know that RAID has nothing to do with the setup of your network, right? -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Telnet
to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-05): > It does have a line mode with local echo (meaning you can type without > anything > being sent until you hit ENTER, with limited line editing capabilities > (backspace > and things). No readline's full power, though: that was more like a > Christmas's > wish :-) Oh, you mean that. That is not telnet, that comes from the kernel. Even sleep has this. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Telnet
to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-04): > Back then (TM) (must have been 1990ies or so) I knew. And I sometimes still > miss the "easy interactivity". I haven't investigated whether there is an > equivalent socat mode (say line-mode with readline editing or something). That > would be a market niche, wouldn't it? I am not sure what you are saying: telnet does not have a line mode with readline editing; anything of that kind you observe is on the server side. socat, OTOH, has. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Telnet
to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-04): > Which, in the case of interaction with HTTP (and most others) actually > comes in handy. Those explicit \r\n get old pretty fast... Just hope you will not need to emit a LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH DIAERESIS in ISO-8859-1. Anyway, the treatment done by telnet is not bad per se, provided we know (1) that they happen, (2) if we need them in our use case and (3) how to turn them off. I guess most people who use telnet as a general network client do not know either (1) nor (2) nor (3). Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Look, ma no telnet [was: Telnet]
to...@tuxteam.de (12023-12-04): > These days, even bash can do it: Zsh could years before. > (alas, it can't do TCP server, which is a pity) socat can do TCP server. And UDP client, and UDP server, and TLS/SSL client and server, and Unix sockets, and SOCKS, and tun, and… (And zsh seems to be able to do TCP server.) Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Telnet
Curt (12023-12-04): > I think you're buggering yet another fly here. I think you should read the docs and shut up. I know what I am saying. -- Nicolas George
Re: Telnet
Curt (12023-12-04): > Telnet doesn't alter the actual data being transmitted Yes it does, read the doc before posting wrong information here. -- Nicolas George
Re: Telnet
Marco Moock (12023-12-04): > Is that really the case? Yes. > Other applications like telnet or vi don't care about it, so I > assume(d), it is up to the application to handle it. Applications can decide to change the mode of the tty or catch SIGINT. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Telnet
Marco Moock (12023-12-04): > ncat also uses ^C to kill the process. No, this effect of ^C is part of the operating system. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Telnet
Charles Curley (12023-12-03): > True. None the less, there is at least one perfectly good use for > telnet: testing connections to servers. Wrong. The telnet client is not entirely transparent, as the telnet protocol defines an escape octet to introduce commands. If you want to test a network protocol, you should use a really transparent client. Traditionally people use netcat (nc), but it handles EOF approximatively. For that use, I strongly recommend socat. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: bash vs. dash and stdin
Max Nikulin (12023-11-22): > Is there a document that describes shell behavior in respect to stdin in > such cases? The shell did not eat your stdin here, ssh did. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Weird MAC address
Marco Moock (12023-11-22): > Sorry, not gracious-arp, proxy-arp can be responsible for that. Thanks for clarifying. But AFAIK, with proxy ARP, the network mask covers all the networks covered by the proxy. That is not the case here. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: Weird MAC address
Marco Moock (12023-11-22): > Are those networks on the same ethernet link? No, they are on a different VLAN. > Are some systems with wrong subnet masks on the link and the router has > gratious ARP enabled? I do not see what the router has to do with anything. Can you elaborate what you mean? On the server, we never enabled an option to accept ARP information that does not come as a reply to a request from the network stack, if such an option even exists, so even if such a packet came it should not have reached the ARP tables. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Weird MAC address
Hi. Since last we have four MAC addresses in the ARP table of a server that should not be there: $ ip route default via XXX.XXX.98.254 dev eth0 onlink XXX.XXX.96.0/22 dev eth0 proto kernel scope link src XXX.XXX.98.94 But: $ ip neigh | grep -v 'XXX.XXX.9[6789]' XXX.XXX.103.161 dev eth0 lladdr YY:YY:YY:YY:YY:YY
Re: rdiff-backup-2.2.2-1 old/new interface
Greg (12023-11-21): > I'm using following command to backup: > > rdiff-backup backup /home/ 'orfeusz::/mnt/backup/home' > > and get the following: > > WARNING: this command line interface is deprecated and will disappear, start > using the new one as described with '--new --help'. > > Unfortunately I'm unable to translate to the new interface. > Any suggestions? Hi. What have you tried? Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: rhs time out error?
Thomas Schmitt (12023-11-21): > Can it be that "rhs" is a typo and should rather be "rsh" ? IMAP is the only protocol I know that officially has a “preauthenticated” mode, where a user can run the server under their own UID and interact with it through its standard input and output, going directly into operation mode skipping the authentication phase. That way, if a client supports it, you can connect to a IMAP server through SSH and a key, for example. It is a tragedy that not more authenticated protocols do not support the same thing. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"
jeremy ardley (12023-11-14): > I use Bluemail on android. It claims to do threading though I don't use it. > Bluemail seems competent. A quick search for screenshots on the web leads to the conclusion that no, Bluemail does not do threading, just linear conversation. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"
Stefan Monnier (12023-11-13): > IIUC most people have never seen real threading :-( There is real threading: N 11-13 Susmita/Rajib(1.5K) Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023 N 11-13 Susmita/Rajib(0.6K) ├─> N 11-13 Michel Verdier (0.8K) ├─> N 11-13 Andy Smith (1.9K) └─> N 11-13 David(0.9K) └─> N 11-13 Andy Smith (0.7K) └─> N 11-13 Stefan Monnier (0.4K) ├─> Ns 11-13 Brad Rogers (1.4K) └─> N 11-13 Eduardo M KALINOWSKI (0.7K) └─> Ns 11-13 The Wanderer (2.2K) └─> And then there is good threading: /o |-o o-o-o-o-o-o-@ \o Or, with a more complex thread: /o |-o |-o-o-o | /o | | /o-o o-o-o-o-o-o-o-@-o | | |-o-o-o-o-o-o-o | |\o-o-o-o | | | \o-o-o | | \o-o | \o |-o-o | /o | |/o | | |/o-o | | | |-o | | | | /o-o-o-o-o | | | | | \o-o-o | | | | |-o | | | | | /o-o-o | | | | | |-o-o | | | | | | /o-o \o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o \o-o-o I am sad that so few software implement this one. Regards, -- Nicolas George
Re: limit on attachment in mail to list
Hi. hlyg (12023-11-09): > list doesn't seem to accept my mail, because of big attachment i believe Good, I do not want to receive big attachments from mailing-lists — and no attachments at all from this one. And I am far from alone in that aspect. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux
to...@tuxteam.de (12023-11-07): > (note how that one stops short of saying "character special file"? $ file prog/ffmpeg/libavfilter/buffersrc.h prog/ffmpeg/libavfilter/buffersrc.h: C source, ASCII text Do you think this is not a file? Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
