Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
Malcolm forgot to show a really cool feature - one he showed in Christchurch - the ability to add your own data visualizers for code debugging. Apparently there are some 3rd party providers already! 2009/10/14 John Bird johnkb...@paradise.net.nz -It looks like Embarcaero are on a good track with the number of programmers working on Delphi (doubled from Borland/Codegear days - although I don't know how many of them are experienced ex Borland/Codegear programmers ) -- --- Richard Vowles, Technical Advisor Developers Inc Ltd web. http://www.developers-inc.co.nz ph. +64-9-3600231, mob. +64-275-467747, fax. +64-9-3600384 skype. rvowles, LinkedIn, Twitter ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
Don't take this the wrong way, but the Internet is really good for drawing like people together more than people who disagree. All of the social networking concepts really encourage you to follow people who are like-minded - blogs, facebook, twitter, etc. I wouldn't be surprised that people who follow your blog want 64 bit more than cross platform. I have to agree with you on that though, I have seen much more of a demand for 64 bit than cross platform. But in NZ, we tend to be outliers rather than the norm. Malcolm is responsible for pretty much all of Asia/Pacific - so his territory covers NZ, Australia, India, Taiwan, Korea, China, South East Asia, Singapore and I think Japan. Thats a lot of differing opinion - and I suspect the growing number of Mac people in real life is contributing towards it. 2009/10/14 Jolyon Smith jsm...@deltics.co.nz Ø From what Malcolm says though I’m in the minority. I’m surprised but it wouldn’t be the first time ;-). I would love to know where Malcom gets his numbers because the empirical evidence seems to contradict his figures starkly. For instance, among visitors to my blog, did all those people who thought that cross-platform is a better idea than 64-bit simply choose not to comment and point out the error in my thinking? Currently the comments are running about 12/13:1 in the exact **opposite** bias to that which Malcolm’s comments would have suggested I could expect. -- --- Richard Vowles, Technical Advisor Developers Inc Ltd web. http://www.developers-inc.co.nz ph. +64-9-3600231, mob. +64-275-467747, fax. +64-9-3600384 skype. rvowles, LinkedIn, Twitter ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
My next blaise magazine article will be about creating them. I'm doing one for TColor, if someone wants to suggest another type or two, let me know. Can't remember when the article is due, I should check that out! On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Richard Vowles rich...@developers-inc.co.nz wrote: Malcolm forgot to show a really cool feature - one he showed in Christchurch - the ability to add your own data visualizers for code debugging. Apparently there are some 3rd party providers already! ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
Ø Its a less certain thing as its still the future, but its my guess likely
in 5 years netbooks/laptops and mobile and phone OS will largely kill
desktop PCs and in time likely Windows too, as there is not much sign they
will be the leading candidate for mobile devices in 5 years. Hence the more
cross platform and new UI (read touchscreen) enabled a language is the
better positioned it will be.
I am confident that touchscreen is a fad as far as desktop PCs or even
notebooks are concerned. Why am I so confident?
Because its simply not new - if it were going to go mainstream it could
have and would have done so years ago.
Touchscreens have been with us for years and the price premium for touch
isnt that much greater now than it has ever been. Almost 10 years ago I
implemented an equivalent to the touchscreen keyboard demod by Malcolm, for
a touchscreen application I was working on back then.
I had a little smile to myself when he mentioned a rumoured or speculated
ability to define the layout for that keyboard control as this was exactly
how my implementation worked it was a general purpose keyboard control,
but the keys it displayed were entirely configurable. I still have the
code, and heres a standard QWERTY layout (declared as an array) for the
control I implemented. Keys with a VKCode display the specified Caption in
full. Keys with a 0 VKCode displayed either one of the two character of the
caption the first unshifted, the second (if specified) when shifted. So
as you can tell from this particular layout, test entry using this
particular layout was entirely upper case:
const
// An array of TtsKeyDef records that defines the keyboard layout for a
// simple QWERTY keyboard (i.e. with no number pad).
//
// An entry in the array with an empty Caption, a VKCode of 0 (zero) and
a
// Proportion of 0 (zero) indicates an end of row or end of column.
SIMPLE_KEYS : array [0..60] of TtsKeyDef =
(
(Caption: 'Esc';VKCode: VK_ESCAPE;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '1!'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '2'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '3£'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '4$'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '5%'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '6^'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '7'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '8*'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '9('; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '0)'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '-_'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '=+'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'Backspace'; VKCode: VK_BACK; Proportion: 2),
(Caption: ''; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 0),
(Caption: 'TAB';VKCode: VK_TAB; Proportion: 1.5),
(Caption: 'Q'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'W'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'E'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'R'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'T'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'Y'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'U'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'I'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'O'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'P'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '[{'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: ']}'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: '#~'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: ''; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 0),
(Caption: 'CAPS'; VKCode: VK_CAPITAL; Proportion: 2),
(Caption: 'A'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'S'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'D'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'F'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'G'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'H'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'J'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'K'; VKCode: 0;Proportion: 1),
(Caption: 'L'; VKCode: 0;Proportion:
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
How about a voice of reason...just give use ALL the featuresNOW !! J To be honest tho. I could do with Cross Platform now as well as 64bit now. But maybe there is a quicker win with cross platform for Embarcadero than 64bit. Jeremy From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Richard Vowles Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2009 19:21 To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch? Don't take this the wrong way, but the Internet is really good for drawing like people together more than people who disagree. All of the social networking concepts really encourage you to follow people who are like-minded - blogs, facebook, twitter, etc. I wouldn't be surprised that people who follow your blog want 64 bit more than cross platform. I have to agree with you on that though, I have seen much more of a demand for 64 bit than cross platform. But in NZ, we tend to be outliers rather than the norm. Malcolm is responsible for pretty much all of Asia/Pacific - so his territory covers NZ, Australia, India, Taiwan, Korea, China, South East Asia, Singapore and I think Japan. Thats a lot of differing opinion - and I suspect the growing number of Mac people in real life is contributing towards it. 2009/10/14 Jolyon Smith jsm...@deltics.co.nz Ø From what Malcolm says though Im in the minority. Im surprised but it wouldnt be the first time ;-). I would love to know where Malcom gets his numbers because the empirical evidence seems to contradict his figures starkly. For instance, among visitors to my blog, did all those people who thought that cross-platform is a better idea than 64-bit simply choose not to comment and point out the error in my thinking? Currently the comments are running about 12/13:1 in the exact *opposite* bias to that which Malcolms comments would have suggested I could expect. -- --- Richard Vowles, Technical Advisor Developers Inc Ltd web. http://www.developers-inc.co.nz ph. +64-9-3600231, mob. +64-275-467747, fax. +64-9-3600384 skype. rvowles, LinkedIn, Twitter ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
but its my guess likely in 5 years netbooks/laptops and mobile and phone OS will largely kill desktop PCs and in time likely Windows too, as there is not much sign they will be the leading candidate for mobile devices in 5 years. Hence the more cross platform and new UI (read touchscreen) enabled a language is the better positioned it will be. This is my gut feeling as well. With all due respect Jolyon, your poll is unscientific and you can't draw any meaningful conclusions from it. Todd. ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
Checkout the global ClustrStats. http://www4.clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://www.deltics.co.nz/blo g It may be written in NZ but it is read the world over. J I think its a bit of a stretch to suggest that visitors of my blog are somehow part of an unofficial 64-bit club and follow my blog because of that. Out of 63 published posts on my blog only 3 even mention 64-bit, and one of those was an entirely passing reference. Of the other two, both (one of which being yesterdays) referred to the shift in priority away from 64-bit toward cross-platform, and both engendered an outcry in the comments that was largely expressing dismay. Even the first at which time I dont think my blog could sensibly be suggested had any reputation or following w.r.t a 64-bit bias. Regards, Jolyon From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Richard Vowles Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2009 19:21 To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch? Don't take this the wrong way, but the Internet is really good for drawing like people together more than people who disagree. All of the social networking concepts really encourage you to follow people who are like-minded - blogs, facebook, twitter, etc. I wouldn't be surprised that people who follow your blog want 64 bit more than cross platform. I have to agree with you on that though, I have seen much more of a demand for 64 bit than cross platform. But in NZ, we tend to be outliers rather than the norm. Malcolm is responsible for pretty much all of Asia/Pacific - so his territory covers NZ, Australia, India, Taiwan, Korea, China, South East Asia, Singapore and I think Japan. Thats a lot of differing opinion - and I suspect the growing number of Mac people in real life is contributing towards it. 2009/10/14 Jolyon Smith jsm...@deltics.co.nz Ø From what Malcolm says though Im in the minority. Im surprised but it wouldnt be the first time ;-). I would love to know where Malcom gets his numbers because the empirical evidence seems to contradict his figures starkly. For instance, among visitors to my blog, did all those people who thought that cross-platform is a better idea than 64-bit simply choose not to comment and point out the error in my thinking? Currently the comments are running about 12/13:1 in the exact *opposite* bias to that which Malcolms comments would have suggested I could expect. -- --- Richard Vowles, Technical Advisor Developers Inc Ltd web. http://www.developers-inc.co.nz ph. +64-9-3600231, mob. +64-275-467747, fax. +64-9-3600384 skype. rvowles, LinkedIn, Twitter ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
With all due respect Jolyon, your poll is unscientific and you can't draw any meaningful conclusions from it. I can draw more meaningful conclusions from that than from a 10:1 number plucked seemingly from the air. shrug ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
I'd also add that it wasn't a poll. I passed on the news (the headline didn't even hint at what the news was, nor the summary presented by DelphiFeeds). There wasn't much in the way of any potential pre-qualification of readers of that blog post. In that sense it was perhaps *more* scientific than asking a community that already has expectations of what they will receive what *else* they might want. Feedback w.r.t the need for 64-bit I am sure has been influenced by the fact that 64-bit was on the roadmap *2 years ago*. People might reasonably expect it still to be taking priority and given the woeful communication about the change in priority (and disingenuous assurances that there *was*no* change in priority) it's not that surprising that some people weren't even aware that it was not present in Delphi 2010. I've even seen comments on StackOverflow from people stating that Delphi 2010 already supports 64-bit, presumably because it was in this release that they were previously led to believe it would be delivered. Response to the news that I have seen is a mixture of *shock* or at least surprise as well as dismay. In other words, people were *expecting* 64-bit. When people already think they are getting what they want they don't necessarily make a point of asking for it. ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
re: 64bit vs cross platform I totally understand why Jolyon and others that want 64 bit are peeved. Embarcadero has mislead them a number of times now and I was shocked to here in Auckland that it will be another 2 years. However I am not one of those people waiting for 64 bit. I think Embarcadero has made some better moves so far by dropping Delphi .NET and utilising RemObjects compiler. Delphi 2010 looks to be a very good version, still early days for me but a lot of the features in D2010 is what I have personally been waiting for. The only hassle is porting from D7 to D2010 with respect to Unicode. I think it is anyones guess whether Embarcadero are making the right move, what I do believe is that the face of desktop computing is changing. I think we are seeing the start of more platforms, different interfaces and major demand for mobile computing. In the mobility area, touch interface is definitely having an impact as the iPhone has rocked the market. What impact is the Google OS going to have over the next few years? What other players are going to come into the market? is the tablet PC going to replace the laptop? One of my concern with cross platform is are Embarcadero targeting the right platforms. Should it be iPhone and or other mobile platforms? Instead of compiling a simple app for different platforms, I would be a lot happier with a compiler and a vcl like library for the various mobile platforms. My 2 cents. ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
Interesting. But if the future is handheld and mobile OSes (which it almost certainly is in terms of numbers at least) then is Linux and Mac cross platform really the next stepping stone to take? I don't think so. Surely the next step to take would be developing a MobileVCL which is a cut down and streamlined version of the Windows VCL, with target platforms such as Symbian, iPhone OS, Android, Windows Mobile, etc. Now THAT would very much interest me because we could certainly see a use for cut down field versions of several of our apps. However I don't see how VCLX is really a useful stepping stone towards running Delphi on mobile devices. If it is the goal and VCLX is just some sort of expensive and frustrating (for the customers) trial of Cross Platform development in preparation for the main event then I am extremely disappointed in Embarcadero. David. From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of John Bird Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2009 4:57 p.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch? I think a lot of you are being short sighted. Just my opinion. I lived through the mini-computer era, using Digital Equipment mini-computers with RT-11 and VMS - both really good operating systems, and thought at the time if they started selling VMS for a few $100 rather than thousands they may have captured the mini-computer market as it was way superior to MS-DOS, instead they didn't adapt and got clobbered by Microsoft to the extent the company and the platform does not even exist now. Its a less certain thing as its still the future, but its my guess likely in 5 years netbooks/laptops and mobile and phone OS will largely kill desktop PCs and in time likely Windows too, as there is not much sign they will be the leading candidate for mobile devices in 5 years. Hence the more cross platform and new UI (read touchscreen) enabled a language is the better positioned it will be. Also apps are moving more to be web enabled, where the UI is done by the browser instead, so this also is not really tied to one OS. There are only a few good frameworks that run across many OS's - think Firefox/Thunderbird (XUL) and Safari/Itunes etc. As far as I can gather none of these are remotely easy for new programmers to jump into. Thats why I reckon Delphi as a cross platform simple UI language could be a killer, and why its worth doing even if it is not too easy. John ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
Exactly. People say they really need a drink. You tell everyone that they ARE going to get a drink soon. Then you ask again if there is anything they want. Even if people are parched as (or beached as ;-) they're more likely to think of what other things they want than repeating that they need a drink. -Original Message- From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jolyon Smith Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2009 8:09 p.m. To: todd.martin...@gmail.com; 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List' Subject: Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch? Response to the news that I have seen is a mixture of *shock* or at least surprise as well as dismay. In other words, people were *expecting* 64-bit. When people already think they are getting what they want they don't necessarily make a point of asking for it. ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
Hi David, But if the future is handheld and mobile OSes (which it almost certainly is in terms of numbers at least) then is Linux and Mac cross platform really the next stepping stone to take? I don’t think so. I agree with you. My preference would be for a mobile VCL for the platforms you mentioned. 2009/10/14 David Brennan dugda...@dbsolutions.co.nz: Interesting. But if the future is handheld and mobile OSes (which it almost certainly is in terms of numbers at least) then is Linux and Mac cross platform really the next stepping stone to take? I don’t think so. Surely the next step to take would be developing a MobileVCL which is a cut down and streamlined version of the Windows VCL, with target platforms such as Symbian, iPhone OS, Android, Windows Mobile, etc. Now THAT would very much interest me because we could certainly see a use for cut down field versions of several of our apps. However I don’t see how VCLX is really a useful stepping stone towards running Delphi on mobile devices. If it is the goal and VCLX is just some sort of expensive and frustrating (for the customers) trial of Cross Platform development in preparation for the main event then I am extremely disappointed in Embarcadero. David. From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of John Bird Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2009 4:57 p.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch? I think a lot of you are being short sighted. Just my opinion. I lived through the mini-computer era, using Digital Equipment mini-computers with RT-11 and VMS - both really good operating systems, and thought at the time if they started selling VMS for a few $100 rather than thousands they may have captured the mini-computer market as it was way superior to MS-DOS, instead they didn't adapt and got clobbered by Microsoft to the extent the company and the platform does not even exist now. Its a less certain thing as its still the future, but its my guess likely in 5 years netbooks/laptops and mobile and phone OS will largely kill desktop PCs and in time likely Windows too, as there is not much sign they will be the leading candidate for mobile devices in 5 years. Hence the more cross platform and new UI (read touchscreen) enabled a language is the better positioned it will be. Also apps are moving more to be web enabled, where the UI is done by the browser instead, so this also is not really tied to one OS. There are only a few good frameworks that run across many OS's - think Firefox/Thunderbird (XUL) and Safari/Itunes etc. As far as I can gather none of these are remotely easy for new programmers to jump into. Thats why I reckon Delphi as a cross platform simple UI language could be a killer, and why its worth doing even if it is not too easy. John ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
2009/10/14 Jolyon Smith jsm...@deltics.co.nz Ø Its a less certain thing as its still the future, but its my guess likely in 5 years netbooks/laptops and mobile and phone OS will largely kill desktop PCs and in time likely Windows too, as there is not much sign they will be the leading candidate for mobile devices in 5 years. Hence the more cross platform and new UI (read touchscreen) enabled a language is the better positioned it will be. I am confident that touchscreen is a fad as far as desktop PCs or even notebooks are concerned. Why am I so confident? Because it’s simply *not new* - if it were going to go “mainstream” it could have and would have done so *years* ago. Seen this? http://www.10gui.com/ If this were here today, I would have it right now. It does re-iterate your point, they think multi-touch/touch on the screen will fail in general use. --- Richard Vowles, Technical Advisor Developers Inc Ltd web. http://www.developers-inc.co.nz ph. +64-9-3600231, mob. +64-275-467747, fax. +64-9-3600384 skype. rvowles, LinkedIn, Twitter ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
I hadn't seen that ( http://www.10gui.com ) but it makes a lot of sense I've actually been wondering if Synaptics hadn't already realized that they could tap a new market by proving a *desk*pad. Imagine a mouse mat which *is* the mouse - essentially an oversize laptop touchpad. As you said - I'd have one now if I could. J From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Richard Vowles Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 12:02 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch? Seen this? http://www.10gui.com/ If this were here today, I would have it right now. It does re-iterate your point, they think multi-touch/touch on the screen will fail in general use. --- Richard Vowles, Technical Advisor Developers Inc Ltd web. http://www.developers-inc.co.nz ph. +64-9-3600231, mob. +64-275-467747, fax. +64-9-3600384 skype. rvowles, LinkedIn, Twitter ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
The Wacom Bamboo is pretty close but something about it doesn't smell right.. only US$99 ? It also looks just a little bit too small, although maybe in practice that's not as big an issue as it might appear to me. At that price it's tempting to get one just to find out! http://www.wacom.com/bamboo/bamboo_pen_touch.php From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jolyon Smith Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 8:39 a.m. To: 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List' Subject: Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch? I hadn't seen that ( http://www.10gui.com ) but it makes a lot of sense I've actually been wondering if Synaptics hadn't already realized that they could tap a new market by proving a *desk*pad. Imagine a mouse mat which *is* the mouse - essentially an oversize laptop touchpad. As you said - I'd have one now if I could. J From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Richard Vowles Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 12:02 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch? Seen this? http://www.10gui.com/ If this were here today, I would have it right now. It does re-iterate your point, they think multi-touch/touch on the screen will fail in general use. --- Richard Vowles, Technical Advisor Developers Inc Ltd web. http://www.developers-inc.co.nz ph. +64-9-3600231, mob. +64-275-467747, fax. +64-9-3600384 skype. rvowles, LinkedIn, Twitter ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
[DUG] Stupid /easy question
Hi After the D2010 presentation yesterday I decided I should actually use some of the D2007 features I had not gotten around to using. Specifically the For .. in construct. I am sure I am missing something but here iss what I want to do I have the following 'old school code' (note the base class here inherits from TObjectList) procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var Counter : Integer; begin for Counter := 0 to Self.Count - 1 do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryName, Tobject(TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; I wanted to replace it with procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( CountryAddressFormat.CountryName, TObject(CountryAddressFormat.CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; but I get the following error [DCC Error] AddressFormat.pas(157): E2010 Incompatible types: 'TCountryAddressFormat' and 'Pointer' what am I missing ? Cheers Rob ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question
The enumerator for TStringList returns a pointers not the specific object type so you still need a typecast. var CountryAddressFormat: Pointer; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(CountryAddressFormat).CountryName, TObject(TCountryAddressFormat(CountryAddressFormat).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; Didn't test it to see it is 100% correct. This raises the issues with FOR..IN in pre-generics versions. Unless you encapsulate your list in a class and implement the enumerator on the class you will most likely have to still typecast when using enumerators. With generics in D2009 and D2010 you wouldn't need to do this because you'd do something like (untested). var FCountryList: TStringListTCountryAddressFormats; var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in FCountryList do begin // no typecasting necessary end; end; cheers, Jeremy On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Robert martin r...@chreos.co.nz wrote: Hi After the D2010 presentation yesterday I decided I should actually use some of the D2007 features I had not gotten around to using. Specifically the For .. in construct. I am sure I am missing something but here iss what I want to do I have the following 'old school code' (note the base class here inherits from TObjectList) procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var Counter : Integer; begin for Counter := 0 to Self.Count - 1 do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryName, Tobject(TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; I wanted to replace it with procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( CountryAddressFormat.CountryName, TObject(CountryAddressFormat.CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; but I get the following error [DCC Error] AddressFormat.pas(157): E2010 Incompatible types: 'TCountryAddressFormat' and 'Pointer' what am I missing ? Cheers Rob ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question
It should read - FCountryList: TStringListTCountryAddressFormat; Do you really not prefix your Local, Global, Field and Parameters with nothing? I'm a L, _, F and A person myself! On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Jeremy North jeremy.no...@gmail.com wrote: The enumerator for TStringList returns a pointers not the specific object type so you still need a typecast. var CountryAddressFormat: Pointer; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(CountryAddressFormat).CountryName, TObject(TCountryAddressFormat(CountryAddressFormat).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; Didn't test it to see it is 100% correct. This raises the issues with FOR..IN in pre-generics versions. Unless you encapsulate your list in a class and implement the enumerator on the class you will most likely have to still typecast when using enumerators. With generics in D2009 and D2010 you wouldn't need to do this because you'd do something like (untested). var FCountryList: TStringListTCountryAddressFormats; var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in FCountryList do begin // no typecasting necessary end; end; cheers, Jeremy On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Robert martin r...@chreos.co.nz wrote: Hi After the D2010 presentation yesterday I decided I should actually use some of the D2007 features I had not gotten around to using. Specifically the For .. in construct. I am sure I am missing something but here iss what I want to do I have the following 'old school code' (note the base class here inherits from TObjectList) procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var Counter : Integer; begin for Counter := 0 to Self.Count - 1 do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryName, Tobject(TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; I wanted to replace it with procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( CountryAddressFormat.CountryName, TObject(CountryAddressFormat.CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; but I get the following error [DCC Error] AddressFormat.pas(157): E2010 Incompatible types: 'TCountryAddressFormat' and 'Pointer' what am I missing ? Cheers Rob ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question
Hi Yeah I read examples of how to add enumerators but since TObjectList already has one I didn't think I needed to. Guess I do. Seems like it is a bit too much work for basic (small) classes not frequently used (such as the one im working on). Will give it a go anyway :) Thanks Rob Jolyon Smith wrote: You will have to implement an enumerator for your TCountryAddressFormats class that returns TCountryAddressFormat references. This isn't a language feature that "just works" - you have to put some infrastructure in place to support it. The feature appears to "just work" for a bunch of VCL types (TStringList etc) because the VCL already contains the necessary infrastructure additions (and which should provide the examplar implementations on which you could base your own). -Original Message- From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Robert martin Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 10:06 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: [DUG] Stupid /easy question Hi After the D2010 presentation yesterday I decided I should actually use some of the D2007 features I had not gotten around to using. Specifically the For .. in construct. I am sure I am missing something but here iss what I want to do I have the following 'old school code' (note the base class here inherits from TObjectList) procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var Counter : Integer; begin for Counter := 0 to Self.Count - 1 do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryName, Tobject(TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; I wanted to replace it with procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( CountryAddressFormat.CountryName, TObject(CountryAddressFormat.CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; but I get the following error [DCC Error] AddressFormat.pas(157): E2010 Incompatible types: 'TCountryAddressFormat' and 'Pointer' what am I missing ? Cheers Rob ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question
Hi I understand the issue now. I will follow Jolyon's recommendation and create an enumerator for this otherwise its not much use if I need to typecast anyway (may as well use my original code). I use f for local class variables. No prefix for local variables. Don't really use globals. Use a for parameters but mostly in constructors, probably should do this more). Cheers Rob Jeremy North wrote: It should read - FCountryList: TStringListTCountryAddressFormat; Do you really not prefix your Local, Global, Field and Parameters with nothing? I'm a L, _, F and A person myself! On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Jeremy North jeremy.no...@gmail.com wrote: The enumerator for TStringList returns a pointers not the specific object type so you still need a typecast. var CountryAddressFormat: Pointer; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(CountryAddressFormat).CountryName, TObject(TCountryAddressFormat(CountryAddressFormat).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; Didn't test it to see it is 100% correct. This raises the issues with FOR..IN in pre-generics versions. Unless you encapsulate your list in a class and implement the enumerator on the class you will most likely have to still typecast when using enumerators. With generics in D2009 and D2010 you wouldn't need to do this because you'd do something like (untested). var FCountryList: TStringListTCountryAddressFormats; var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in FCountryList do begin // no typecasting necessary end; end; cheers, Jeremy On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Robert martin r...@chreos.co.nz wrote: Hi After the D2010 presentation yesterday I decided I should actually use some of the D2007 features I had not gotten around to using. Specifically the For .. in construct. I am sure I am missing something but here iss what I want to do I have the following 'old school code' (note the base class here inherits from TObjectList) procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var Counter : Integer; begin for Counter := 0 to Self.Count - 1 do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryName, Tobject(TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; I wanted to replace it with procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( CountryAddressFormat.CountryName, TObject(CountryAddressFormat.CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; but I get the following error [DCC Error] AddressFormat.pas(157): E2010 Incompatible types: 'TCountryAddressFormat' and 'Pointer' what am I missing ? Cheers Rob ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question
As has been mentioned you can use the built in enumerator, but that will only yield Pointer values, so you would then have to typecast the results, or you should be able to use absolute to achieve the typecast declaratively in the var declarations: var addrFormatEnum: Pointer; addrFormat: TCountryAddressFormat absolute addrFormatEnum; begin for addrFormatEnum in Self do begin Strings.AddObject(addrFormat.CountryName, TObject(addrFormat.CountryRefAsInteger)); end; end; But note that the above code is untested either for compilation or behaviour. J From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Robert martin Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 10:45 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question Hi Yeah I read examples of how to add enumerators but since TObjectList already has one I didn't think I needed to. Guess I do. Seems like it is a bit too much work for basic (small) classes not frequently used (such as the one im working on). Will give it a go anyway :) Thanks Rob Jolyon Smith wrote: You will have to implement an enumerator for your TCountryAddressFormats class that returns TCountryAddressFormat references. This isn't a language feature that just works - you have to put some infrastructure in place to support it. The feature appears to just work for a bunch of VCL types (TStringList etc) because the VCL already contains the necessary infrastructure additions (and which should provide the examplar implementations on which you could base your own). -Original Message- From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Robert martin Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 10:06 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: [DUG] Stupid /easy question Hi After the D2010 presentation yesterday I decided I should actually use some of the D2007 features I had not gotten around to using. Specifically the For .. in construct. I am sure I am missing something but here iss what I want to do I have the following 'old school code' (note the base class here inherits from TObjectList) procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var Counter : Integer; begin for Counter := 0 to Self.Count - 1 do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryName, Tobject(TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; I wanted to replace it with procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( CountryAddressFormat.CountryName, TObject(CountryAddressFormat.CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; but I get the following error [DCC Error] AddressFormat.pas(157): E2010 Incompatible types: 'TCountryAddressFormat' and 'Pointer' what am I missing ? Cheers Rob ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question
That worked a charm :) Cheers Jolyon Smith wrote: As has been mentioned you can use the built in enumerator, but that will only yield Pointer values, so you would then have to typecast the results, or you should be able to use absolute to achieve the typecast declaratively in the var declarations: var addrFormatEnum: Pointer; addrFormat: TCountryAddressFormat absolute addrFormatEnum; begin for addrFormatEnum in Self do begin Strings.AddObject(addrFormat.CountryName, TObject(addrFormat.CountryRefAsInteger)); end; end; But note that the above code is untested either for compilation or behaviour. J From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Robert martin Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 10:45 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question Hi Yeah I read examples of how to add enumerators but since TObjectList already has one I didn't think I needed to. Guess I do. Seems like it is a bit too much work for basic (small) classes not frequently used (such as the one im working on). Will give it a go anyway :) Thanks Rob Jolyon Smith wrote: You will have to implement an enumerator for your TCountryAddressFormats class that returns TCountryAddressFormat references. This isn't a language feature that "just works" - you have to put some infrastructure in place to support it. The feature appears to "just work" for a bunch of VCL types (TStringList etc) because the VCL already contains the necessary infrastructure additions (and which should provide the examplar implementations on which you could base your own). -Original Message- From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Robert martin Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 10:06 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: [DUG] Stupid /easy question Hi After the D2010 presentation yesterday I decided I should actually use some of the D2007 features I had not gotten around to using. Specifically the For .. in construct. I am sure I am missing something but here iss what I want to do I have the following 'old school code' (note the base class here inherits from TObjectList) procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var Counter : Integer; begin for Counter := 0 to Self.Count - 1 do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryName, Tobject(TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; I wanted to replace it with procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( CountryAddressFormat.CountryName, TObject(CountryAddressFormat.CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; but I get the following error [DCC Error] AddressFormat.pas(157): E2010 Incompatible types: 'TCountryAddressFormat' and 'Pointer' what am I missing ? Cheers Rob ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question
It's years since I saw anybody use the absolute keyword. The number of times I've had to explain what it does and why you'd use it:-) What better example could you find. Regards Roger On 15/10/2009, at 11:11 AM, Robert martin wrote: That worked a charm :) Cheers Jolyon Smith wrote: As has been mentioned you can use the “built in” enumerator, but that will only yield Pointer values, so you would then have to typecast the results, or you should be able to use “absolute” to achieve the typecast “declaratively” in the var declarations: var addrFormatEnum: Pointer; addrFormat: TCountryAddressFormat absolute addrFormatEnum; begin for addrFormatEnum in Self do begin Strings.AddObject(addrFormat.CountryName, TObject(addrFormat.CountryRefAsInteger)); end; end; But note that the above code is untested either for compilation or behaviour. J From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz ] On Behalf Of Robert martin Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 10:45 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question Hi Yeah I read examples of how to add enumerators but since TObjectList already has one I didn't think I needed to. Guess I do. Seems like it is a bit too much work for basic (small) classes not frequently used (such as the one im working on). Will give it a go anyway :) Thanks Rob Jolyon Smith wrote: You will have to implement an enumerator for your TCountryAddressFormats class that returns TCountryAddressFormat references. This isn't a language feature that just works - you have to put some infrastructure in place to support it. The feature appears to just work for a bunch of VCL types (TStringList etc) because the VCL already contains the necessary infrastructure additions (and which should provide the examplar implementations on which you could base your own). -Original Message- From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz ] On Behalf Of Robert martin Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 10:06 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: [DUG] Stupid /easy question Hi After the D2010 presentation yesterday I decided I should actually use some of the D2007 features I had not gotten around to using. Specifically the For .. in construct. I am sure I am missing something but here iss what I want to do I have the following 'old school code' (note the base class here inherits from TObjectList) procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var Counter : Integer; begin for Counter := 0 to Self.Count - 1 do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryName, Tobject (TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; I wanted to replace it with procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( CountryAddressFormat.CountryName, TObject(CountryAddressFormat.CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; but I get the following error [DCC Error] AddressFormat.pas(157): E2010 Incompatible types: 'TCountryAddressFormat' and 'Pointer' what am I missing ? Cheers Rob ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Auckland Event
Hi all
I tried sending this a couple of days ago, so maybe things have moved on
but...
First, thanks for the event Malcolm, I enjoyed getting the information
and your presentation style. Certainly seems there's life after Borland
in the product. Time morning or afternoon both are fine with me. Morning
means there's less day to get in the way beforehand.
A personal request is to have a name round beforehand. It might be a bit
of a stretch for some, but since there's an online community {DUG} ..
I'd enjoy seeing the faces to names and get to know people better. It
also reduces the possibility of the misunderstanding conflict that
Joylon experienced.
Joylon, I didn't know you by face, but I value your contributions to
DUG, and your thoughtful questions on the day. Thank you for speaking
out, rather than just leaving, the air being cleared paves a way
forward. The use of 'familiar' humour in such a context requires for me
a little more community setting.
Richard, a learning experience for you perhaps, and I do appreciate your
efforts in supporting the product in New Zealand.
There were a heap of valuable comments as asides from the participants
as well as from the presenters, if anyone managed to collate some of
them, I'd appreciate them being posted here on DUG.
Cheers
Ian Drower
David Brennan wrote:
I prefer mornings myself but not in a major way and I doubt it would affect
my decision to come along in any case.
Cheers,
David.
-Original Message-
From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Cheng Wei (FMI)
Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2009 10:57 p.m.
To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List
Subject: Re: [DUG] Auckland Event
Hi Malcolm,
Thanks for a great presentation this morning.
Like Todd, my team would prefer future events to take place in the
afternoon.
Kind regards
Cheng
Sent from my iPhone
On 13/10/2009, at 10:47 PM, Malcolm Groves mgro...@embarcadero.com
wrote:
Hi Todd,
Sorry we missed you. Afternoon timing is no issue for us as far as I
know. Does anyone else have strong preferences on this?
Cheers
Malcolm
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Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question
If you are using a version of Delphi with generics, you should be able to use a generic list and it'll work fine. eg var myList : TObjectListTMyObject; Regards Sean Cross CIO Catalyst Risk Management PO Box 230 Napier 4140 DDI: 06-8340362 Mobile: 021270 3466 Visit us at http://www.catalystrisk.co.nzhttp://www.catalystrisk.co.nz/ Offices in Auckland, Hamilton, Napier, Wellington, Christchurch Dunedin Disclaimer: The information contained in this document is confidential to the addressee(s) and may be legally privileged. Any view or opinions expressed are those of the author and may not be those of Catalyst Risk Management. No guarantee or representation is made that this communication is free of errors, viruses or interference. If you have received this e-mail message in error please delete it and notify me. Thank you. From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Robert martin Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 10:45 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question Hi Yeah I read examples of how to add enumerators but since TObjectList already has one I didn't think I needed to. Guess I do. Seems like it is a bit too much work for basic (small) classes not frequently used (such as the one im working on). Will give it a go anyway :) Thanks Rob Jolyon Smith wrote: You will have to implement an enumerator for your TCountryAddressFormats class that returns TCountryAddressFormat references. This isn't a language feature that just works - you have to put some infrastructure in place to support it. The feature appears to just work for a bunch of VCL types (TStringList etc) because the VCL already contains the necessary infrastructure additions (and which should provide the examplar implementations on which you could base your own). -Original Message- From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nzmailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Robert martin Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 10:06 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: [DUG] Stupid /easy question Hi After the D2010 presentation yesterday I decided I should actually use some of the D2007 features I had not gotten around to using. Specifically the For .. in construct. I am sure I am missing something but here iss what I want to do I have the following 'old school code' (note the base class here inherits from TObjectList) procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var Counter : Integer; begin for Counter := 0 to Self.Count - 1 do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryName, Tobject(TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; I wanted to replace it with procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( CountryAddressFormat.CountryName, TObject(CountryAddressFormat.CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; but I get the following error [DCC Error] AddressFormat.pas(157): E2010 Incompatible types: 'TCountryAddressFormat' and 'Pointer' what am I missing ? Cheers Rob ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nzmailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nzmailto:delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nzmailto:delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nzmailto:delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question
Delphi 2007 was mentioned - no (Win32) generics. And that creates a not insignificant problem with using generics and other new language features in code from (or that may be shared with) existing (i.e. pre-D2009) projects: - They were introduced in Delphi 2009, along with the unavoidable transition to Unicode - Consequently if you convert existing classes derived from TObjectList to TObjectListT or similar then you also have to migrate your code to Unicode - If you find (or fear) that Unicode creates issues for your code that you don't have time to deal with for your next release you have created (generics) code that does not migrate back to Delphi 2007 and the sanctuary of ANSIString - Similarly you cannot use these language features if your code has to be shared with other projects that are not migrating to Unicode, although that is perhaps a less likely scenario. The only safe way to deal with this is to deal with Unicode migration as a separate, pre-requisite project before then making any changes that exploit or take advantage of new language features introduced in the Unicode only version(s) of Delphi. Only once you are 100% certain that the Unicode transition has not introduced undesirable side effects can you consider using language features which commit your code to the Unicode compiler/RTL. Sadly successful compilation without errors or warnings is no guarantee against some side effects, so unless you have 100% automated test coverage, achieving that certainty is not necessarily going to be straightforward. From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Sean Cross Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 11:41 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question If you are using a version of Delphi with generics, you should be able to use a generic list and it'll work fine. eg var myList : TObjectListTMyObject; Regards Sean Cross CIO Catalyst Risk Management PO Box 230 Napier 4140 DDI: 06-8340362 Mobile: 021270 3466 Visit us at http://www.catalystrisk.co.nz http://www.catalystrisk.co.nz/ Offices in Auckland, Hamilton, Napier, Wellington, Christchurch Dunedin Disclaimer: The information contained in this document is confidential to the addressee(s) and may be legally privileged. Any view or opinions expressed are those of the author and may not be those of Catalyst Risk Management. No guarantee or representation is made that this communication is free of errors, viruses or interference. If you have received this e-mail message in error please delete it and notify me. Thank you. From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Robert martin Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 10:45 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: Re: [DUG] Stupid /easy question Hi Yeah I read examples of how to add enumerators but since TObjectList already has one I didn't think I needed to. Guess I do. Seems like it is a bit too much work for basic (small) classes not frequently used (such as the one im working on). Will give it a go anyway :) Thanks Rob Jolyon Smith wrote: You will have to implement an enumerator for your TCountryAddressFormats class that returns TCountryAddressFormat references. This isn't a language feature that just works - you have to put some infrastructure in place to support it. The feature appears to just work for a bunch of VCL types (TStringList etc) because the VCL already contains the necessary infrastructure additions (and which should provide the examplar implementations on which you could base your own). -Original Message- From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of Robert martin Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 10:06 a.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: [DUG] Stupid /easy question Hi After the D2010 presentation yesterday I decided I should actually use some of the D2007 features I had not gotten around to using. Specifically the For .. in construct. I am sure I am missing something but here iss what I want to do I have the following 'old school code' (note the base class here inherits from TObjectList) procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var Counter : Integer; begin for Counter := 0 to Self.Count - 1 do begin Strings.AddObject( TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryName, Tobject(TCountryAddressFormat(Self.Items[Counter]).CountryRefAsInteger) ); end; end; I wanted to replace it with procedure TCountryAddressFormats.LoadStringListWithCompanies(Strings: TStrings); var CountryAddressFormat : TCountryAddressFormat; begin for CountryAddressFormat in Self do begin Strings.AddObject( CountryAddressFormat.CountryName,
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
John, I have also been through the same era and agree. They should agressively pursue the cross-platform verison but make a decent job of it this time. Eric From: johnkb...@paradise.net.nz To: delphi@delphi.org.nz Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:56:47 +1300 Subject: Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch? I think a lot of you are being short sighted. Just my opinion. I lived through the mini-computer era, using Digital Equipment mini-computers with RT-11 and VMS - both really good operating systems, and thought at the time if they started selling VMS for a few $100 rather than thousands they may have captured the mini-computer market as it was way superior to MS-DOS, instead they didn't adapt and got clobbered by Microsoft to the extent the company and the platform does not even exist now. Its a less certain thing as its still the future, but its my guess likely in 5 years netbooks/laptops and mobile and phone OS will largely kill desktop PCs and in time likely Windows too, as there is not much sign they will be the leading candidate for mobile devices in 5 years. Hence the more cross platform and new UI (read touchscreen) enabled a language is the better positioned it will be. Also apps are moving more to be web enabled, where the UI is done by the browser instead, so this also is not really tied to one OS. There are only a few good frameworks that run across many OS's - think Firefox/Thunderbird (XUL) and Safari/Itunes etc. As far as I can gather none of these are remotely easy for new programmers to jump into. Thats why I reckon Delphi as a cross platform simple UI language could be a killer, and why its worth doing even if it is not too easy. John _ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on Facebook. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-nz:SI_SB_2:092010___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
Dear Paul, The only hassle is porting from D7 to D2010 with respect to Unicode. After reading a very comprehensive blog by Jolyon Smith, I am quite concerned about D.s current unicode support. I've had enough trouble with it in other environments to want to face the maze that appears to be there from what Jolyon wrote. Paul 2009/10/14 Paul Hectors paul.hect...@gmail.com re: 64bit vs cross platform I totally understand why Jolyon and others that want 64 bit are peeved. Embarcadero has mislead them a number of times now and I was shocked to here in Auckland that it will be another 2 years. However I am not one of those people waiting for 64 bit. I think Embarcadero has made some better moves so far by dropping Delphi .NET and utilising RemObjects compiler. Delphi 2010 looks to be a very good version, still early days for me but a lot of the features in D2010 is what I have personally been waiting for. The only hassle is porting from D7 to D2010 with respect to Unicode. I think it is anyones guess whether Embarcadero are making the right move, what I do believe is that the face of desktop computing is changing. I think we are seeing the start of more platforms, different interfaces and major demand for mobile computing. In the mobility area, touch interface is definitely having an impact as the iPhone has rocked the market. What impact is the Google OS going to have over the next few years? What other players are going to come into the market? is the tablet PC going to replace the laptop? One of my concern with cross platform is are Embarcadero targeting the right platforms. Should it be iPhone and or other mobile platforms? Instead of compiling a simple app for different platforms, I would be a lot happier with a compiler and a vcl like library for the various mobile platforms. My 2 cents. ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
I strongly suggest forming your own opinion. While I don't read the blog I've converted a number of applications to Delphi 2009 / 2010 and haven't come across anything that was a great hassle to fix. Perhaps I didn't run into any issues raised in the blog, who knows. You never will know if you don't try it and I highly doubt they (Embarcadero) will change the implementation now. There is a Delphi 2010 trial you can download. Worst case scenario you could just change all strings to AnsiString and all Chars to AnsiChar. You'll still need to be wary anyway. A component suite I sell works for Delphi 5 to Delphi 2010 and supports unicode from Delphi 2006 onwards - even on Win9x machines. Naturally the custom unicode support had to be turned off for Delphi 2009 and above and there were only minor code changes throughout. Separate Ansi and Unicode VCLs are not a viable solution. Delphi does cop a whack because of C++ support though. On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Paul A Norman paul.a.nor...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Paul, The only hassle is porting from D7 to D2010 with respect to Unicode. After reading a very comprehensive blog by Jolyon Smith, I am quite concerned about D.s current unicode support. I've had enough trouble with it in other environments to want to face the maze that appears to be there from what Jolyon wrote. Paul 2009/10/14 Paul Hectors paul.hect...@gmail.com re: 64bit vs cross platform I totally understand why Jolyon and others that want 64 bit are peeved. Embarcadero has mislead them a number of times now and I was shocked to here in Auckland that it will be another 2 years. However I am not one of those people waiting for 64 bit. I think Embarcadero has made some better moves so far by dropping Delphi .NET and utilising RemObjects compiler. Delphi 2010 looks to be a very good version, still early days for me but a lot of the features in D2010 is what I have personally been waiting for. The only hassle is porting from D7 to D2010 with respect to Unicode. I think it is anyones guess whether Embarcadero are making the right move, what I do believe is that the face of desktop computing is changing. I think we are seeing the start of more platforms, different interfaces and major demand for mobile computing. In the mobility area, touch interface is definitely having an impact as the iPhone has rocked the market. What impact is the Google OS going to have over the next few years? What other players are going to come into the market? is the tablet PC going to replace the laptop? One of my concern with cross platform is are Embarcadero targeting the right platforms. Should it be iPhone and or other mobile platforms? Instead of compiling a simple app for different platforms, I would be a lot happier with a compiler and a vcl like library for the various mobile platforms. My 2 cents. ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Presentation in Christchurch - any other meetings in Chch?
On that note, and because I have done NO reading on the subject, my understanding is this with the unicode stuff I use AsyncPro with delphi 7. When data is received in the onreceived event, the data is passed in as a char. you get told how big the buffer is and you jsut loop that many times to get the availible chars. I just add these chars to a a string. Now under Delphi 2009/2010, this would no longer be right? The char might be a unicode char? Also, if I have a string, declared AS a string. i.e. mystring:string and I go mystring[99] which currently in delphi 7 might be x it wont be that in 2009/2010. Is that about the short of it?? Jeremy my biggest far of moving to D2009/2010 witht he unicode is that I use AsyncPro and also On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Jeremy North jeremy.no...@gmail.comwrote: I strongly suggest forming your own opinion. While I don't read the blog I've converted a number of applications to Delphi 2009 / 2010 and haven't come across anything that was a great hassle to fix. Perhaps I didn't run into any issues raised in the blog, who knows. You never will know if you don't try it and I highly doubt they (Embarcadero) will change the implementation now. There is a Delphi 2010 trial you can download. Worst case scenario you could just change all strings to AnsiString and all Chars to AnsiChar. You'll still need to be wary anyway. A component suite I sell works for Delphi 5 to Delphi 2010 and supports unicode from Delphi 2006 onwards - even on Win9x machines. Naturally the custom unicode support had to be turned off for Delphi 2009 and above and there were only minor code changes throughout. Separate Ansi and Unicode VCLs are not a viable solution. Delphi does cop a whack because of C++ support though. On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Paul A Norman paul.a.nor...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Paul, The only hassle is porting from D7 to D2010 with respect to Unicode. After reading a very comprehensive blog by Jolyon Smith, I am quite concerned about D.s current unicode support. I've had enough trouble with it in other environments to want to face the maze that appears to be there from what Jolyon wrote. Paul 2009/10/14 Paul Hectors paul.hect...@gmail.com re: 64bit vs cross platform I totally understand why Jolyon and others that want 64 bit are peeved. Embarcadero has mislead them a number of times now and I was shocked to here in Auckland that it will be another 2 years. However I am not one of those people waiting for 64 bit. I think Embarcadero has made some better moves so far by dropping Delphi .NET and utilising RemObjects compiler. Delphi 2010 looks to be a very good version, still early days for me but a lot of the features in D2010 is what I have personally been waiting for. The only hassle is porting from D7 to D2010 with respect to Unicode. I think it is anyones guess whether Embarcadero are making the right move, what I do believe is that the face of desktop computing is changing. I think we are seeing the start of more platforms, different interfaces and major demand for mobile computing. In the mobility area, touch interface is definitely having an impact as the iPhone has rocked the market. What impact is the Google OS going to have over the next few years? What other players are going to come into the market? is the tablet PC going to replace the laptop? One of my concern with cross platform is are Embarcadero targeting the right platforms. Should it be iPhone and or other mobile platforms? Instead of compiling a simple app for different platforms, I would be a lot happier with a compiler and a vcl like library for the various mobile platforms. My 2 cents. ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
[DUG] Cross platform musings
The reason I see a decreasing use of desktops (and Windows) is multiple: 1 - Most pcs are getting smaller. The fastest growing areas of sales are in laptops and netbooks these days. As these get smaller and more powerful more and more users find they do not need anything more, and they are now comparable in price. 2 - Even faster growing is mobiles. The highest customer satisfactions ratings I read recently are from those with (1) iPhones and (2) Android phones. Once serious computers become portable then there are a whole new world of issues to solve to do with screen layout, mutlitasking or single tasking, input devices, battery life, memory size etc. Windows and other desktop OS are not really well suited for that transition, especially Windows as it is for current state of the art desktops and laptops, not really suited to netbooks and low ppwer devices - it needs mainly Mains power or heavy batteries for hot processors and large amounts of memory. However with the iPhone SDK (which must have a lot of OSX ancestry in it as it runs on a flavour of OSX) and Android (which must have a good ancestry in linux which it is a version of) - these are environments to target from the beginning. not sure about Windows mobile, but it does not seem to get the best press as it is not really from Windows ancestry, it seems to be a specially tailored and highly limited OS of its own designed to look like Windows although it is not. iPhone and Android are at least built on the unix or linux kernels for which there are very lean and efficient versions out there (eg running in a few MB of memory) - such as the Carnegie-Mellon version kernel. I read on one recent linux firmware device that was able to boot into full running in about 0.5 seconds by optimising various things - eg no compressed boot image and special drivers. I don't see much chance of Windows being able to achieve that kind of performance although I would like to be proved wrong. 3 - reliable internet connectivity means that many grunty services can be off-loaded to heavy iron servers which could be Windows or Unix or Sun or IBM or whatever - think of gmail, Google search, Google maps, iTunes store, You-Tube, Hotmail, Yahoo and all online services etc. This is the strong point of phones like the iPhone and Android which do just this, and not through a phone company interface (read expensive) but direct to the Internet (read cheap).A phone with a reasonable OS that can do a RDC or VNC connection to a server has all the advantages of the server while portable.It is in a sense a return to thin client (but portable). Embarcadero here is a prediction and I suggest you consider these as a direction: (a) an easy to learn language (pascal is that) with a cross platform VCL that is reasonably able to write applications (with various framework flavours and considerations) for Windows, OSX, linux but more importantly into iPhone and Android would absolutely be the killer app like Turbo pascal was. The goal would be to produce a compiler/language that uses the respective OS to render the standard controls - windows uses Comctl32.dll, Apple and Linux etc must have their own, so there needs to be something that drives the OS native graphics libraries and controls. That is not relying on some added party framework like wine that may lag behind the state of the art. Much better to tap into what the latest version of any OS is capable of rendering. If VCLX on windows is inferior to VCL then either people won't want to use it, or there would need to be some automated tool to port code to VCLX (renaming component types etc) as a batch process to produce the other OS flavours. As far as I am concerned it would be fine for Embarcadero to say we will only make VCLX portable within certain constraints, it may well be less than the current VCL in some areas, but it does not have to be more than VCL, as those who want easy portability may be happy to give up third party components and win32 calls and live in well defined boundaries in order to get code they can compile and run on various OS's. If some win32 calls could be given some equivalents it would be neat, but this would be icing on the cake. (b) The other way to go would make a really easy way for a browser to run any Delphi app, so it could be put on a web site. Now others have pointed out that can be done via browsers that can call up some RDP client or terminal services client. It is not easy yet however. I don't know how one could do that, but there must be something possible. I would certainly be paying close attention to whatever the Google OS is likely to do, as I would imagine thats the sort of direction they would be thinking too, some way to web enable any desktop applications via some RDC or VNC connections into a browser or particularly the Chrome browser. (c) make Delphi grunty to. 64 bit and 128 bit -
Re: [DUG] Cross platform musings
More chocolate bars are sold than desktop PCs and energy drinks are a massively growing market. Perhaps Embarcadero should produce a version of Delphi that supports chocolate bars and energy drinks? Seriously - sales figures of those devices you mention surely reflect an increase in the use of devices as casual technology by consumers and supplemental devices within businesses (with a higher churn because desktop PC's can be upgraded to stay current, where those other devices become obsolete more quickly and can only be *replaced* in order to remain current - that's why the manufacturers love them so!). Now certainly it would be nice if Delphi could be used to deliver applications into that supplemental space, except that the money that consumers in particular are then prepared to pay for applications on those devices is such that Delphi would have to be a LOT cheaper, if not FREE for it to be viable to target that market. Don't make the even 1% of billions is worth it mistake. My understanding is that it's a myth in practice. And I don't see how this affects the use of computers in business and the demand for the types of applications that Delphi has successfully delivered to date, but which now need to evolve to the next (or should I say *current*) generation of technology that is relevant to *those* types of applications. And the danger is that if Delphi ceases to be relevant in that space that it previously thrived in, I don't think it will have long enough to establish itself in those new spaces in order to survive the transition (especially since there are already cheaper alternatives). Are you seriously suggesting that an iPod or similar is ever going to replace the desktop PC in the accounts department? CAD? Chem-informatics? Data processing? DTP? These technologies will supplement that technology, not replace it. Microsoft left an open goal in the WINDOWS native code development market. It looked like Embarcadero were finally going to capitalize on that opportunity missed by Borland except now it seems they were heading toward their OWN goal the whole time. From: delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz [mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] On Behalf Of John Bird Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 4:46 p.m. To: NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List Subject: [DUG] Cross platform musings The reason I see a decreasing use of desktops (and Windows) is multiple: 1 - Most pcs are getting smaller. The fastest growing areas of sales are in laptops and netbooks these days. As these get smaller and more powerful more and more users find they do not need anything more, and they are now comparable in price. 2 - Even faster growing is mobiles. The highest customer satisfactions ratings I read recently are from those with (1) iPhones and (2) Android phones. Once serious computers become portable then there are a whole new world of issues to solve to do with screen layout, mutlitasking or single tasking, input devices, battery life, memory size etc. Windows and other desktop OS are not really well suited for that transition, especially Windows as it is for current state of the art desktops and laptops, not really suited to netbooks and low ppwer devices - it needs mainly Mains power or heavy batteries for hot processors and large amounts of memory. However with the iPhone SDK (which must have a lot of OSX ancestry in it as it runs on a flavour of OSX) and Android (which must have a good ancestry in linux which it is a version of) - these are environments to target from the beginning. not sure about Windows mobile, but it does not seem to get the best press as it is not really from Windows ancestry, it seems to be a specially tailored and highly limited OS of its own designed to look like Windows although it is not. iPhone and Android are at least built on the unix or linux kernels for which there are very lean and efficient versions out there (eg running in a few MB of memory) - such as the Carnegie-Mellon version kernel. I read on one recent linux firmware device that was able to boot into full running in about 0.5 seconds by optimising various things - eg no compressed boot image and special drivers. I don't see much chance of Windows being able to achieve that kind of performance although I would like to be proved wrong. 3 - reliable internet connectivity means that many grunty services can be off-loaded to heavy iron servers which could be Windows or Unix or Sun or IBM or whatever - think of gmail, Google search, Google maps, iTunes store, You-Tube, Hotmail, Yahoo and all online services etc. This is the strong point of phones like the iPhone and Android which do just this, and not through a phone company interface (read expensive) but direct to the Internet (read cheap).A phone with a reasonable OS that can do a RDC or VNC connection to a server has all the advantages of the server while portable.It is in a sense a return to
[DUG] Unicode [redux]
Jeremy: Separate Ansi and Unicode VCLs are not a viable solution. Straw man argument (but incidentally, do you believe separate Windows specific and X-Platform VCL's *ARE* a viable solution? h...?) ;) And incidentally I for one never advocated dual ANSI/Wide VCL's... some people seem to think that was the only other option, but I believe they are mistaken. If you read my blog you would know that because I've explained my view on this before (for some reason people seem to prefer to come up with their own ideas about what I think). ;) With a bit of thought I believe the VCL could have gone Unicode without requiring that application code be dragged along with it. Delphi did it before with String - LongString... the Delphi 2.0 VCL went unilaterally LongString but left applications with the choice. Before dismissing the notion out of hand, consider that what you (and Embarcadero) suggest in search/replacing String for ANSIString and Char to ANSIChar etc is essentially exactly what a project String ANSIString vs String UnicodeString compiler switch would have achieved (search your feelings... you know it's -almost- true), except that a compiler switch would have made it easier to apply (and change) across a project! ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
Re: [DUG] Unicode [redux]
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Jolyon Smith jsm...@deltics.co.nz wrote: Jeremy: Separate Ansi and Unicode VCLs are not a viable solution. Straw man argument (but incidentally, do you believe separate Windows specific and X-Platform VCL's *ARE* a viable solution? h...?) ;) Have never made public my opinion on this direction. I do my iPhone programming in Objective-C and my .NET programming in C# though. And incidentally I for one never advocated dual ANSI/Wide VCL's... some people seem to think that was the only other option, but I believe they are mistaken. If you read my blog you would know that because I've explained my view on this before (for some reason people seem to prefer to come up with their own ideas about what I think). ;) Don't flatter yourself. I don't really care what you think at all ;-) With a bit of thought I believe the VCL could have gone Unicode without requiring that application code be dragged along with it. Delphi did it before with String - LongString... the Delphi 2.0 VCL went unilaterally LongString but left applications with the choice. Before dismissing the notion out of hand, consider that what you (and Embarcadero) suggest in search/replacing String for ANSIString and Char to ANSIChar etc is essentially exactly what a project String ANSIString vs String UnicodeString compiler switch would have achieved (search your feelings... you know it's -almost- true), except that a compiler switch would have made it easier to apply (and change) across a project! How would such a solution work with runtime packages? Two different packages? What about component vendors, IDE experts writers? What if I want both (ansi and unicode in the one application), then I'm using the explicit types anyway. cheers, Jeremy ___ NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi mailing list Post: delphi@delphi.org.nz Admin: http://delphi.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/delphi Unsubscribe: send an email to delphi-requ...@delphi.org.nz with Subject: unsubscribe
