Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?

[Nathan Hartman]

Even if the NuttX PMC requested to opt-out from "The Stack" there could be
(and probably are) a million other stacks, and many of those might be quite
a bit less transparent about what they're doing. So, like I said before,
all our code is public and there's not much we can do to prevent AIs from
training on it, any less than we could prevent people from studying it.

Nathan

On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 7:06 PM Gregory Nutt  wrote:

> The more I think about, I believe you don't have to be concerned about
> accessing github for Apache NuttX.  Certainly, I respect your choice to
> keep your personal code out of "The Stack".  But NuttX will most likely
> be in the Stack and any changes you submit to NuttX will be in the
> Stack.  So it may be awkward for you, but I don't see any reason for you
> to avoid Apache NuttX in github while moving your personal code elsewhere.
>
> Am I missing something?  You would probably like to make a clean break
> with github, but I think continuing to use the Apache NuttX repository
> (only) would be the more practical way to accomplished what you want to do.
>
> On 3/21/2024 4:43 PM, Gregory Nutt wrote:
> > I think we need to continue to use PRs at some point in the process.
> > PRs are so tied into our CI that I don't think we could work around it.
> >
> > Can you use another GIT repository?  If you create a PR on gitlab or
> > bitbucket, someone could move the PR to github.  Or perhaps we could
> > take commits from a local repository clone?  We haven't done it for a
> > while, but patches could also be converted to github PRs with a little
> > more effort.
> >
> > I think there are options, but without PRs on github, I don't see how
> > you could independently make changes.
> >
> > On 3/21/2024 4:08 PM, Sebastien Lorquet wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of
> >> this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack
> >>
> >> It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for
> >> good.
> >>
> >> How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to
> >> contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any
> >> public "forge" for that matter.
> >>
> >> Sebastien
> >>
>

Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?

[Nathan Hartman]

For those who cannot or don't want to access GitHub, the gitbox repos on
ASF infrastructure are actually the "real" source of truth. As I understand
it, our GitHub repos are really some kind of mirror that is kept in a
two-way sync with gitbox. (Unless something has changed since I last looked
into it.)

However, the way we use GitHub makes it so that GitHub is for all practical
purposes the central thing for us and gitbox is some kind of afterthought
(if we even remember that it's there).

We as a project don't have to work in a GitHub-centric way. We could choose
to use ASF's Jira for issues, ASF's buildbots for CI, etc. But GitHub's
all-in-one way of working and the fact that it's so entrenched makes it the
path of least resistance for most users and contributors around the world,
and probably the least maintenance and administration effort for us. That's
probably why GitHub is in such widespread use. The convenience and
entrenchment is either an advantage (if you just want to write code and not
muck around with administering all kinds of systems or teaching
contributors your special way of working) or a disadvantage (if you don't
like dealing with the other baggage that comes with it), depending on your
point of view.

While I would rather we didn't depend on GitHub as much as we do, I
recognize that if we work any other way, it will introduce friction and
we'd likely take a big hit in the amount of contributors and contributions.
So, not because I like it but just because that's practical reality, I'd
rather accept it and just focus on getting work done.

I went off on a tangent. I began by talking about gitbox, which is on ASF
infra. If you set that up as your remote, you can pull from it and not deal
with GitHub for pulling. But what about the other direction, when you want
to upstream your work? Since we have adopted the convention that no one
merges their own changes (this is a good convention in my opinion), and
because of CI, anything you want to push has to become a PR somehow. I
don't really know how that can happen. I suppose you can email it to dev@
with a subject line starting with [PATCH] and someone can volunteer to put
it in a PR and sort of become the steward of it on GitHub.

But this won't get us out of the "AI" training datasets. Nothing will. As
others have said, all our code is public so anyone can take it and do
things with it, including training AI, and I'm sure there are lots more of
them than just this "Stack" thing.

Nathan

On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 6:43 PM Gregory Nutt  wrote:

> I think we need to continue to use PRs at some point in the process.
> PRs are so tied into our CI that I don't think we could work around it.
>
> Can you use another GIT repository?  If you create a PR on gitlab or
> bitbucket, someone could move the PR to github.  Or perhaps we could
> take commits from a local repository clone?  We haven't done it for a
> while, but patches could also be converted to github PRs with a little
> more effort.
>
> I think there are options, but without PRs on github, I don't see how
> you could independently make changes.
>
> On 3/21/2024 4:08 PM, Sebastien Lorquet wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of
> > this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack
> >
> > It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for good.
> >
> > How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to
> > contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any
> > public "forge" for that matter.
> >
> > Sebastien
> >
>

Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?

[Tomek CEDRO]

Most of the Apache code base is already in that Stack I have checked.
Some of my repos too. But they are public anyways.

I understand that this may be frustrating and depressing. I also see
that trend of low wage low skill works only available around. Not much
respect for skills and experience. Quick wins only. Demands. Enforced
changes. Ghost releases with numbers not present anywhere in the
branch/tar/doc referencing master with completely different numbers.
Like nothing matters anymore. Like "AI _is_already_replacing_coders_
so the boom for IT is over" I heard today from a living non-technical
human.

All I have ever done all was for myself. For fun, development,
creativity, curiosity, problem solving, to help my friends and family,
to make world around a better place. Would I play with NuttX or
FreeBSD or Atari no matter what, for sure. All that matters is what I
do, how I do it, and why. Anyone / anything can make a good use of
what I share for free.

Sebastien, you may consider GitHub a tool that is used to achieve a
particular goal (i.e. NuttX contribution). I also use Windows
sometimes when there is no other choice (i.e. machine control, games).
What is important is what comes out of that tool. Even if the only
goal is your own happiness this is important.

If AI evolves (into 01 / Zero-One nation like in Animatrix) and start
creating things beyond our comprehension, okay, we have not much
choice, but if the world still exist by then, maybe this could be a
time to get a family home with garden and finally play with NuttX on
Atari :-)

There might be also a good outcomes like world peace, cure for cancer,
clean and free energy sources, space exploration. Who knows maybe when
the burden of daily life paying bills chasing the rabbit is gone,
maybe there will be more time for consciousness and self development
for those who care :-)

--
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info

On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 12:06 AM Gregory Nutt  wrote:
>
> The more I think about, I believe you don't have to be concerned about
> accessing github for Apache NuttX.  Certainly, I respect your choice to
> keep your personal code out of "The Stack".  But NuttX will most likely
> be in the Stack and any changes you submit to NuttX will be in the
> Stack.  So it may be awkward for you, but I don't see any reason for you
> to avoid Apache NuttX in github while moving your personal code elsewhere.
>
> Am I missing something?  You would probably like to make a clean break
> with github, but I think continuing to use the Apache NuttX repository
> (only) would be the more practical way to accomplished what you want to do.
>
> On 3/21/2024 4:43 PM, Gregory Nutt wrote:
> > I think we need to continue to use PRs at some point in the process.
> > PRs are so tied into our CI that I don't think we could work around it.
> >
> > Can you use another GIT repository?  If you create a PR on gitlab or
> > bitbucket, someone could move the PR to github.  Or perhaps we could
> > take commits from a local repository clone?  We haven't done it for a
> > while, but patches could also be converted to github PRs with a little
> > more effort.
> >
> > I think there are options, but without PRs on github, I don't see how
> > you could independently make changes.
> >
> > On 3/21/2024 4:08 PM, Sebastien Lorquet wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of
> >> this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack
> >>
> >> It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for
> >> good.
> >>
> >> How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to
> >> contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any
> >> public "forge" for that matter.
> >>
> >> Sebastien
> >>

Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?

[Gregory Nutt]

The more I think about, I believe you don't have to be concerned about 
accessing github for Apache NuttX.  Certainly, I respect your choice to 
keep your personal code out of "The Stack".  But NuttX will most likely 
be in the Stack and any changes you submit to NuttX will be in the 
Stack.  So it may be awkward for you, but I don't see any reason for you 
to avoid Apache NuttX in github while moving your personal code elsewhere.


Am I missing something?  You would probably like to make a clean break 
with github, but I think continuing to use the Apache NuttX repository 
(only) would be the more practical way to accomplished what you want to do.


On 3/21/2024 4:43 PM, Gregory Nutt wrote:
I think we need to continue to use PRs at some point in the process.  
PRs are so tied into our CI that I don't think we could work around it.


Can you use another GIT repository?  If you create a PR on gitlab or 
bitbucket, someone could move the PR to github.  Or perhaps we could 
take commits from a local repository clone?  We haven't done it for a 
while, but patches could also be converted to github PRs with a little 
more effort.


I think there are options, but without PRs on github, I don't see how 
you could independently make changes.


On 3/21/2024 4:08 PM, Sebastien Lorquet wrote:

Hi,

I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of 
this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack


It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for 
good.


How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to 
contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any 
public "forge" for that matter.


Sebastien

Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?

[Gregory Nutt]

I think we need to continue to use PRs at some point in the process.  
PRs are so tied into our CI that I don't think we could work around it.


Can you use another GIT repository?  If you create a PR on gitlab or 
bitbucket, someone could move the PR to github.  Or perhaps we could 
take commits from a local repository clone?  We haven't done it for a 
while, but patches could also be converted to github PRs with a little 
more effort.


I think there are options, but without PRs on github, I don't see how 
you could independently make changes.


On 3/21/2024 4:08 PM, Sebastien Lorquet wrote:

Hi,

I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of 
this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack


It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for good.

How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to 
contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any 
public "forge" for that matter.


Sebastien

Re: Options to contribute to NuttX without github?

[Tomek CEDRO]

Hmm, this Stack operates on stuff that is public anyway, so anyone can
access and do whatever they like with it (assuming respecting the
license), including AI training, private repositories are not exposed,
right?

Apache also use their own GitBox repository.. but that redirects to
GitHub anyways o_O

https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf#nuttx

After Microsoft took over the GitHub I also  switched to Open-Source
GitLab (so did for instance KiCAD).

But many projects are on GitHub and most people prefers that one.

What is the problem here? Do I miss something? The repository is public anyways?

What would change if we had switched to GitLab and someone trained
silently their AI from that repository?

What other way can you see to work on a public projects?

--
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info

On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 11:09 PM Sebastien Lorquet  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of
> this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack
>
> It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for good.
>
> How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to
> contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any
> public "forge" for that matter.
>
> Sebastien
>

Options to contribute to NuttX without github?

[Sebastien Lorquet]

Hi,

I plan to leave github completely and delete my account, because of 
this: https://huggingface.co/spaces/bigcode/in-the-stack


It is the last of reasons that make me want to leave this place for good.

How can we imagine a process so I (and others) can continue to 
contribute to NuttX without using pull requests from github? or any 
public "forge" for that matter.


Sebastien

Re: [OT] GSoC: We still have two projects waiting for contributors

[Jan Kaniuka]

Hi Alan,

I received your invitation and confirmed my attendance at the meeting. See
you tomorrow :)

Regards,
Jan

czw., 21 mar 2024 o 15:51 Alan C. Assis  napisał(a):

> Hi Jan,
>
> Thank you for that nice introduction!
>
> You are right, NuttX will bring the flexibility you have using Raspberry Pi
> W with Linux, without the drawbacks (boot time, power consumption, board
> price, etc).
>
> The idea of this project is to get Micro-ROS better integrated on NuttX,
> maybe even bringing some required tools (like *Fast DDS/*uXRCE-DDS)
> directly to nuttx-apps.
>
> Tomorrow the NuttX mentors and Mentees will have the first meeting, I'll
> send you the invitation.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Alan
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 11:18 AM Jan Kaniuka  wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I'm Jan, I'm 24 years old, and I’m a second-year master's undergraduate
> > student in automatic control and robotics at Warsaw University of
> > Technology. I have 3 years of experience with robot programming using ROS
> > 2. Furthermore, I am also the president of "BIONIK - Students Robotics
> > Interest Club at Warsaw University of Technology". Apart from
> programming,
> > interaction with real hardware is important to me. I have experience in
> > programming STM32 L4/ L0/F4 microcontrollers. In addition to my studies,
> I
> > work as a software engineer in R projects in the field of robotics. As
> > part of my master's thesis, I am working on controlling a team of
> > heterogeneous robots (manipulators and mobile robots) using ROS 2 and I
> > decided to use micro-ROS in it. Recently, I managed to run micro-ROS on
> > ESP32 with FreeRTOS and I also plan to run it on RPi Pico W.
> >
> > So far, I have only heard of NuttX in the context of micro-ROS (First
> > micro-ROS Application on an RTOS
> > ).
> > NuttX
> > looks interesting, because we do not always need, for example, an RPi
> with
> > an OS and 8 GB of RAM - sometimes just a simple 8-bit MCU is enough. I'd
> > love to know more details about "Micro-ROS integration on NuttX". Does
> this
> > task consist of "refreshing" the code and preparing some kind of demo
> > application?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jan
> >
> >
> > czw., 21 mar 2024 o 13:32 Alan C. Assis  napisał(a):
> >
> > > Very nice Tomek!
> > >
> > > Welcome aboard Jan! We are glad to know you are interested to
> participate
> > > of GSoC as a NuttX contributor.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Alan
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 12:50 AM Tomek CEDRO  wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 1:04 AM Alan C. Assis 
> > wrote:
> > > > > Hi NuttX users and developers,
> > > > > We have two projects that are still missing contributors: Device
> Tree
> > > and
> > > > > MicroROS.
> > > >
> > > > I have asked my friend Tomasz WINIARSKI that is Robotics Professor at
> > > > Warsaw University of Technology (Poland) and mentor of Student
> > > > Scientific Group "BIONIK" as I saw they play with Robotics +
> MicroROS.
> > > >
> > > > Tomasz recommended Jan KANIUKA that has already practical experience
> > > > with embedded systems, robotics, MicroROS and works with it as part
> of
> > > > his MSc thesis :-)
> > > >
> > > > I would like to recommend Jan KANIUKA as the developer for the NuttX
> +
> > > > MicroROS GSoC 2024 project :-)
> > > >
> > > > Jan already joined the dev@ mailing list so we can discuss the
> > > > details.. Jan are you here? :-)
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [OT] GSoC: We still have two projects waiting for contributors

[Alan C. Assis]

Hi Jan,

Thank you for that nice introduction!

You are right, NuttX will bring the flexibility you have using Raspberry Pi
W with Linux, without the drawbacks (boot time, power consumption, board
price, etc).

The idea of this project is to get Micro-ROS better integrated on NuttX,
maybe even bringing some required tools (like *Fast DDS/*uXRCE-DDS)
directly to nuttx-apps.

Tomorrow the NuttX mentors and Mentees will have the first meeting, I'll
send you the invitation.

Best Regards,

Alan

On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 11:18 AM Jan Kaniuka  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm Jan, I'm 24 years old, and I’m a second-year master's undergraduate
> student in automatic control and robotics at Warsaw University of
> Technology. I have 3 years of experience with robot programming using ROS
> 2. Furthermore, I am also the president of "BIONIK - Students Robotics
> Interest Club at Warsaw University of Technology". Apart from programming,
> interaction with real hardware is important to me. I have experience in
> programming STM32 L4/ L0/F4 microcontrollers. In addition to my studies, I
> work as a software engineer in R projects in the field of robotics. As
> part of my master's thesis, I am working on controlling a team of
> heterogeneous robots (manipulators and mobile robots) using ROS 2 and I
> decided to use micro-ROS in it. Recently, I managed to run micro-ROS on
> ESP32 with FreeRTOS and I also plan to run it on RPi Pico W.
>
> So far, I have only heard of NuttX in the context of micro-ROS (First
> micro-ROS Application on an RTOS
> ).
> NuttX
> looks interesting, because we do not always need, for example, an RPi with
> an OS and 8 GB of RAM - sometimes just a simple 8-bit MCU is enough. I'd
> love to know more details about "Micro-ROS integration on NuttX". Does this
> task consist of "refreshing" the code and preparing some kind of demo
> application?
>
> Regards,
> Jan
>
>
> czw., 21 mar 2024 o 13:32 Alan C. Assis  napisał(a):
>
> > Very nice Tomek!
> >
> > Welcome aboard Jan! We are glad to know you are interested to participate
> > of GSoC as a NuttX contributor.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Alan
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 12:50 AM Tomek CEDRO  wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 1:04 AM Alan C. Assis 
> wrote:
> > > > Hi NuttX users and developers,
> > > > We have two projects that are still missing contributors: Device Tree
> > and
> > > > MicroROS.
> > >
> > > I have asked my friend Tomasz WINIARSKI that is Robotics Professor at
> > > Warsaw University of Technology (Poland) and mentor of Student
> > > Scientific Group "BIONIK" as I saw they play with Robotics + MicroROS.
> > >
> > > Tomasz recommended Jan KANIUKA that has already practical experience
> > > with embedded systems, robotics, MicroROS and works with it as part of
> > > his MSc thesis :-)
> > >
> > > I would like to recommend Jan KANIUKA as the developer for the NuttX +
> > > MicroROS GSoC 2024 project :-)
> > >
> > > Jan already joined the dev@ mailing list so we can discuss the
> > > details.. Jan are you here? :-)
> > >
> > > --
> > > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
> > >
> >
>

Re: [OT] GSoC: We still have two projects waiting for contributors

[Jan Kaniuka]

Hi everyone,

I'm Jan, I'm 24 years old, and I’m a second-year master's undergraduate
student in automatic control and robotics at Warsaw University of
Technology. I have 3 years of experience with robot programming using ROS
2. Furthermore, I am also the president of "BIONIK - Students Robotics
Interest Club at Warsaw University of Technology". Apart from programming,
interaction with real hardware is important to me. I have experience in
programming STM32 L4/ L0/F4 microcontrollers. In addition to my studies, I
work as a software engineer in R projects in the field of robotics. As
part of my master's thesis, I am working on controlling a team of
heterogeneous robots (manipulators and mobile robots) using ROS 2 and I
decided to use micro-ROS in it. Recently, I managed to run micro-ROS on
ESP32 with FreeRTOS and I also plan to run it on RPi Pico W.

So far, I have only heard of NuttX in the context of micro-ROS (First
micro-ROS Application on an RTOS
). NuttX
looks interesting, because we do not always need, for example, an RPi with
an OS and 8 GB of RAM - sometimes just a simple 8-bit MCU is enough. I'd
love to know more details about "Micro-ROS integration on NuttX". Does this
task consist of "refreshing" the code and preparing some kind of demo
application?

Regards,
Jan


czw., 21 mar 2024 o 13:32 Alan C. Assis  napisał(a):

> Very nice Tomek!
>
> Welcome aboard Jan! We are glad to know you are interested to participate
> of GSoC as a NuttX contributor.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Alan
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 12:50 AM Tomek CEDRO  wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 1:04 AM Alan C. Assis  wrote:
> > > Hi NuttX users and developers,
> > > We have two projects that are still missing contributors: Device Tree
> and
> > > MicroROS.
> >
> > I have asked my friend Tomasz WINIARSKI that is Robotics Professor at
> > Warsaw University of Technology (Poland) and mentor of Student
> > Scientific Group "BIONIK" as I saw they play with Robotics + MicroROS.
> >
> > Tomasz recommended Jan KANIUKA that has already practical experience
> > with embedded systems, robotics, MicroROS and works with it as part of
> > his MSc thesis :-)
> >
> > I would like to recommend Jan KANIUKA as the developer for the NuttX +
> > MicroROS GSoC 2024 project :-)
> >
> > Jan already joined the dev@ mailing list so we can discuss the
> > details.. Jan are you here? :-)
> >
> > --
> > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
> >
>

Re: [OT] GSoC: We still have two projects waiting for contributors

[Alan C. Assis]

Very nice Tomek!

Welcome aboard Jan! We are glad to know you are interested to participate
of GSoC as a NuttX contributor.

Best Regards,

Alan

On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 12:50 AM Tomek CEDRO  wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 1:04 AM Alan C. Assis  wrote:
> > Hi NuttX users and developers,
> > We have two projects that are still missing contributors: Device Tree and
> > MicroROS.
>
> I have asked my friend Tomasz WINIARSKI that is Robotics Professor at
> Warsaw University of Technology (Poland) and mentor of Student
> Scientific Group "BIONIK" as I saw they play with Robotics + MicroROS.
>
> Tomasz recommended Jan KANIUKA that has already practical experience
> with embedded systems, robotics, MicroROS and works with it as part of
> his MSc thesis :-)
>
> I would like to recommend Jan KANIUKA as the developer for the NuttX +
> MicroROS GSoC 2024 project :-)
>
> Jan already joined the dev@ mailing list so we can discuss the
> details.. Jan are you here? :-)
>
> --
> CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
>