Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
One advantage for online would be the focus on effective electronic communication while trying to reach a goal, while using the tools you might be recreating in the future. This skill will be key. I agree, neither way is better. I think my point in the contrast is when a pile of resumes are on the desk of the hiring manager I think the more formally educated make it to the top of the pile and the others get circular filed. During my professional experience that is a bad metric. As far as the studio portfolio way. I think it has no bearing. Your output as a human resource is dependent on who you are providing the work for. If something in a portfolio appears beautiful it is an artifact of the relationship between the parties involved. It is not some reproducible studio band sound. On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Dave Malouf dave@gmail.com wrote: hmmm? I have not read in your messages any advantages of online other than scale. The example you gave at the end of your last message could EASILY be accomplished through online methods integrated into a full studio environment and is very often. Further, we just prefer bringing great minds into the school itself. I.e. Steve Baty is coming to visit here soon. We also have Bill Moggridge coming too. My point being is that there is nothing specificly advantageous there. I also don't see the data you are seeing about non-studio teaching methods used in design curriculum. My data comes from portfolio review. EVERY graduate I have seen w/o studio education or experience shows it in their portfolio. Now, the opposite is not true either. Not everyone who goes through studio experience is a great designer or even a better designer than those that haven't, but more are than not by far. Are there flaws in traditional design education? Yes SIR! Are those flaws addressed in online modes of teaching. NO WAY! But that's a completely different debate. Like I said, (and I think you said) proof is in the pudding. Christian suggested that we should be able to learn from everyone. Nice sentiment, but not everyone is teaching you the right things you need to learn. So many designers don't even know what design is, and part of this is our sloppy semantics and lack of rigor in our expectations for hiring people which started through the 1st bubble and has proceeded moving forward. Sometimes you need a good strong backlash to set things right, instead of moving as if everything is hunky dory. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
I just noticed my quotes didn't turn up right on that post, so that long rant looks like I'm arguing with myself. Sigh. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Andy, I got through the mud and to the point of your piece, no worries. In the end, it is OK to disagree and try different methods and learn from those. Fail big, fail often, but you have to try to fail and who knows someone's failure is another person's success. Some of this debate is on the level of religious belief. Either you believe steadfastly in foundation and studio, or you are a reformist, or don't even care. There has to be room for all modes, and to be honest, to have those other programs out there to react to better helps more orthodox programs differentiate themselves against that. But like all religions there are reasons for these beliefs and so the discussion is not with each other but rather it is with those listening to the conversation who will be making decisions about their lives and their education. I'd like to clarify my religious stance here though: 1. There is no substitute for in-person, small group, project-based, studio design education. a) 1 it mirrors the ideal working environment outside of the education system (one must learn the ideal b4 they can move away from it. you need to know what you are moving from) b) real-time, in-person critique is a real-world requirement. Design over distance will always be a compromise. Critique is not criticism. 2. Scale is a double-edged sword. Yes, it helps w/ $, but how does it serve the greater good of design and more specifically interaction design All that being said, we have seen 1st and 2nd and even 3rd tier education systems in business, law, accounting, computer arts, etc. If we didn't have Phoenix University we might not appreciate Harvard as much as we do. (Ok, we would but you get my point.) Me? I'd rather just aim for Harvard, Cambridge, Sorboune or more correctly towards RISD, Pratt, RCA, IIT/ID, CCA, Art Center/Pasadena, Cincinnati then try to create something that will sell for its own sake. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Andy, I just fixed it the best I could. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
1 last point about studio that wasn't said yet. Studio is about craft (we all know that), but what we haven't said is that studio education is not just master apprentice, but it is also apprentice apprentice. Your peers are probably 50-75% of the source of your education in studio. They can do this b/c they are THERE. They are with you. They see your sculptures/models as they walk back and forth to their desks. They add impromptu critiques, offer new skills and actually HELP you through it all. Just having the ability to say, Psst! come here, can you look at this for a sec.? or Hey! I saw your model and you used X material, how do you do that? is a priceless part of the learning process AND further adds to the relationship building that exists within the studio that makes critique work. Oh! ok, I've just got to to do this. No offense to all my twitter friends, but ambient intimacy is a false god of relationships. Sure, I like you all, but that is not a relationship built on trust and experience and to even think that it is anyway related to real-world relationships is delusional at best and well down right scary otherwise. -- dave -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
hmmm? I have not read in your messages any advantages of online other than scale. The example you gave at the end of your last message could EASILY be accomplished through online methods integrated into a full studio environment and is very often. Further, we just prefer bringing great minds into the school itself. I.e. Steve Baty is coming to visit here soon. We also have Bill Moggridge coming too. My point being is that there is nothing specificly advantageous there. I also don't see the data you are seeing about non-studio teaching methods used in design curriculum. My data comes from portfolio review. EVERY graduate I have seen w/o studio education or experience shows it in their portfolio. Now, the opposite is not true either. Not everyone who goes through studio experience is a great designer or even a better designer than those that haven't, but more are than not by far. Are there flaws in traditional design education? Yes SIR! Are those flaws addressed in online modes of teaching. NO WAY! But that's a completely different debate. Like I said, (and I think you said) proof is in the pudding. Christian suggested that we should be able to learn from everyone. Nice sentiment, but not everyone is teaching you the right things you need to learn. So many designers don't even know what design is, and part of this is our sloppy semantics and lack of rigor in our expectations for hiring people which started through the 1st bubble and has proceeded moving forward. Sometimes you need a good strong backlash to set things right, instead of moving as if everything is hunky dory. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Jack - Of course in an ideal situation staffing levels and student numbers should be better matched in face-to-face courses, but like I said, the *reality* of the situation is that this is not usually the case. I can only speak from my own, relatively long experience in online education, but I find I have more engagement and discussion with my online students than I am able to have in my face to face classes. I suspect I'm doing way more hours than I'm paid for that way, but spending a few minutes, daily and spread across a week is a more successful strategy than trying to cram in the contact with everyone in three hours per week. It's not that online takes less time, it's a different kind of effort. I think you're misunderstanding what I am saying about the mentoring/ collaborative experience of online teaching when you say it's all down to the teacher. It is, in the end, always down to the teacher, either way. But what is inherent in online teaching is the need to carefully structure the process *because* it is online in ways that often don't happen in face to face classes. The slowed-down, asynchronous nature of the interaction makes a big difference to the kind of collaboration and discussion that goes on and that is something inherent in online – or, indeed, text-heavy – learning and teaching. I'm not saying it's okay for any student to be introverted and fragile with regards to crits. What I am saying is, in fact, that it is possible to give a much more critical crit that you might feel comfortable giving face-to-face. Online crits also allow for a record of the discussion and further discussion, which sometimes doesn't happen in a face-to-face crit. The distancing aspect of the online environment can be really useful in helping to engage in the critical analysis of work (and taking on that critique) from the emotions of being given a dressing down (in which it's often possible for the student to just concentrate on the unpleasant feeling and not take on board the critique). I'm also not saying that audio-only communication, or a text-only communication has an equal chance of being correctly interpreted as face-to-face communication. I'm saying that online or voice-only communication carries a great deal of emotion and inter-personal information that is easily enough and that if you genuinely examine your daily communication with loved ones and friends and colleagues via these media you'll see that to be the case. Otherwise we wouldn't even be having this discussion here. Again, I would never say that it can't be taught online. But I will adamantly argue that it can't be done as effectively. And you wouldn't be alone in that argument, just wrong. As I mentioned before, everyone thinks their own discipline area of expertise can't be taught online as well as other areas and it's constantly proved not to be the case. It is different and there are strengths and weaknesses to online and you need to play to the strengths of it for it to be an effective learning and teaching approach. But that's the same with any teaching modality - lectures are good for some things (not many, actually) and tutorials or workshops are suitable for others. Effective learning and teaching is about choosing the right approach and structure for the situation in hand. I bet a student that has participated in a studio program that performs work for actual clients will be better prepared than one who hasn't. I bet that too, but that's to do with them working on client projects, not whether they did it remotely or not. Dave - Small groups do work for crits, that's true, but you don't need realtime communication to build those relationships. This list, our conversations on Twitter, etc., etc. are all good examples of that. When you wrote here's my thought. A person gets a masters degree remotely. They have a diploma and a set of transcripts, but is that masters REALLY? I couldn't agree more, except the other way around. Educational institutions were founded on the idea of being sources of knowledge and information. They have, up until recently, always been a secular priesthood of, as Charles Leadbeater put it special places for special people. The piece of paper you get at the end of a degree from a university is meaningless beyond the reputation of that institution. Like bank notes, the diploma on your wall is a promise of something intangible, it's entirely based on reputation and the theory is that every knows that that piece of paper means you have completed certain activities to a certain standard. The problem is nobody outside of that program actually knows what that is, they just believe in the reputation. That works okay until things go awry in the faculty or in the student body. I guarantee that, whilst a degree from a certain uni might help applicants get past the initial
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
In practice, we should be learning from everyone we work with on every project too. Just sayin'. -x- -- Christian Crumlish I'm writing a book so please forgive any lag http://designingsocialinterfaces.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
I totally disagree. I've worked with a few interaction designers that had reputable university degrees specific to interaction design and they were as you say 'worthless'. I asked one what web sites applications etc..she thought were well done and she said she didn't do that. Another had never heard of Tufte. Those were just the 2 examples off the top of my head. I would expect more from any breathing life form that had a pulse and the nerve to throw the title around. In my experience past and current never seeing the people and conveying the message remote is ideal. I've seen more quality from 2 people in sync from a far than entire teams holding 2 weekly whiteboard sessions. I've learned more from reading your books than anyone ever taught me in class or by example. I would never want to monopolize the work place with my school crownies either. Just my thoughts, nothing personal. I'm taking a relational database theory class online right now and it is way better than any tech class I've ever taken and had to sit and listen to the most often slanted political speech of the instructors personal preferences accompanied by slides. FYI, I was a high school continuation student; but, I was also in geometry when I was in 6th grade. It was all down hill from there. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Dan Saffer d...@odannyboy.com wrote: On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:03 PM, Ben Vaughan wrote: However, I must respectfully disagree that the only way to benefit from a program is by personally attending. Based on what exactly? Is there anyone on the list who has attended design school who thinks it can be taught remotely? If so, that's an opinion I've yet to hear. It wasn't quite design school remotely, but I did take the postgraduate module on user centred design from Open University which is a highly respected institute of distance learning in the UK. It gave me a good foundation in the basics of UCD, though it has a IS/engineering bias (lots of use cases, etc.). I did that so that I could work full-time while studying - none of the UK HCI or IxD postgraduate programmes in the UK have evening classes. Even part time, they assume you will only work a few days a week. A few years later, I took a year off and completed an MSc in HCI from UCL. Although I learned a lot from the OU course, the UCL one was much more in-depth, partially because it was a whole MSc instead of just one module that was part of another MSc, but another was the fact that it wasn't distance learning and we had lots of design and other kinds of workshops. On the other hand, the basics/foundations of the course could probably be taught by distance learning. So maybe the solution is to create more programs that combine distance learning with workshops later in the program or more infrequently - i.e., 1-2 intensive weeks of workshopping that allow students to use their holiday time to attend full-time but can more easily keep their jobs while doing the rest of the study. It might take longer to get the course done that way, but it always does if you're attending part time. As for getting a job without a degree or considerable experience, it's very hard in the current market, at least in London. Before I had the MSc but with the OU course and some experience (plus years of industry experience as a producer/front-end developer), I got interviews. After the MSc, I got job offers and now work as a User Experience Architect. I think the KU course sounds like a good idea with evening classes for professionals in Lawrence and Kansas City. If I still lived in the area and didn't already have a degree, I'd seriously consider it, especially since Masters programs are 2 years full time in the US instead of just 1. (KU is my undergraduate alma mater, though I studied totally unrelated fields to what I do today.) -- Renée Rosen-Wakeford rene...@gmail.com Twitter: @lilitu93 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
I have to agree with Dan here. A remote learning program in interaction is not a great solution regardless of its convenience. You can certainly access texts and publications from nearly anywhere, but immersion and social learning is an important component of the experience. I am sure that you can learn the principles and guidelines of the field from books, but the discourse, collaboration, debates and even the arguments are what crystalize the foundations for your passion and expertise. I will go a step further and say that while having a source for direct application of what you learn (a job) is great, the experience for me was optimal when I could devote 2/3 of my time in research, theory and classwork rather than 1/3. The evening classes are a great option to expand reach of the discipline and this program... but immersion is well worth the price of admission. Mark btw: I am amongst a couple of dozen masters graduates from the University of Kansas that studied in this program prior to the formal degree now offered. Of those graduates... most found employment almost immediately at firms like adobe, microsoft, motorola, etc. I highly recommend the program and am happy to discuss it offline. On Jan 21, 2009, at 5:06 AM, Renee Rosen-Wakeford wrote: On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Dan Saffer d...@odannyboy.com wrote: On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:03 PM, Ben Vaughan wrote: However, I must respectfully disagree that the only way to benefit from a program is by personally attending. Based on what exactly? Is there anyone on the list who has attended design school who thinks it can be taught remotely? If so, that's an opinion I've yet to hear. It wasn't quite design school remotely, but I did take the postgraduate module on user centred design from Open University which is a highly respected institute of distance learning in the UK. It gave me a good foundation in the basics of UCD, though it has a IS/engineering bias (lots of use cases, etc.). I did that so that I could work full-time while studying - none of the UK HCI or IxD postgraduate programmes in the UK have evening classes. Even part time, they assume you will only work a few days a week. A few years later, I took a year off and completed an MSc in HCI from UCL. Although I learned a lot from the OU course, the UCL one was much more in-depth, partially because it was a whole MSc instead of just one module that was part of another MSc, but another was the fact that it wasn't distance learning and we had lots of design and other kinds of workshops. On the other hand, the basics/foundations of the course could probably be taught by distance learning. So maybe the solution is to create more programs that combine distance learning with workshops later in the program or more infrequently - i.e., 1-2 intensive weeks of workshopping that allow students to use their holiday time to attend full-time but can more easily keep their jobs while doing the rest of the study. It might take longer to get the course done that way, but it always does if you're attending part time. As for getting a job without a degree or considerable experience, it's very hard in the current market, at least in London. Before I had the MSc but with the OU course and some experience (plus years of industry experience as a producer/front-end developer), I got interviews. After the MSc, I got job offers and now work as a User Experience Architect. I think the KU course sounds like a good idea with evening classes for professionals in Lawrence and Kansas City. If I still lived in the area and didn't already have a degree, I'd seriously consider it, especially since Masters programs are 2 years full time in the US instead of just 1. (KU is my undergraduate alma mater, though I studied totally unrelated fields to what I do today.) -- Renée Rosen-Wakeford rene...@gmail.com Twitter: @lilitu93 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Yes, I have to disagree with the argument about remote design education being worthless. I've been involved in online collaborative design teaching for ten years via the Omnium project (and platform) at the College of Fine Arts in Australia - http://www.omnium.net.au. Australia has a long history and expertise in distance education because of the size of the place in relation to the population size. I used to teach face-to-face at COFA when I was head of the school of Media Arts and the Digital Media program there. I also taught online for students who were either not in Sydney or Australia or on another campus. Now I'm back in Germany I still teach online from here. Teaching online requires a lot of preparation, which is a good thing pedagogically speaking. It's far too easy to walk into a room and wing it if you know your subject. Sometimes that is a good thing too, but it doesn't structure the learning experience very well usually. The 'low bandwidth' of communication also forces you to think about what it is you are trying to teach and break it down and explain it very carefully. Books are low bandwidth too - usually just text and pictures - but deep content. As Angel mentioned, I have learned an enormous amount from reading books, and that's without any direct interaction with the authors (usually). Online learning and teaching allows that interaction and discussion. It also slows discussion down, which is an excellent way to get students to consider different views and processes (it's not just the loud ones that hog the floor) and allows for broader peer feedback and collaboration in ways the often don't happen in real life (because friends sit and work with friends, etc.). On top of that you get an archive of the whole thing to refer back to. COFA Online offers a Masters in Cross Disciplinary Art and Design that also includes a sculpture course. Of course, it is different from studio work, that's for sure, but not better or worse. A large part of teaching sculpture students about form, light and shade, volume, etc. is done through examples which are photographs anyway. You can't drag all your students over to Europe to quickly look at a Henry Moore, you show them a photograph and talk about it. For interaction design, the online learning experience makes even more sense because, at least for the digital versions, so many examples are online to use, 'handle', critique, etc. So you're at an advantage over some other traditional disciplines. Most of the time I work remotely too for clients in the UK, often with other people working on the projects in the USA. That's not uncommon, so it's not a bad idea to teach students how to work this way because it will play a large part in their futures. The only thing I haven't really found a good online substitute for is brainstorming. There are ways to come close, but it's not quite the same process. We've written and presented quite a bit about this - http://omnium.net.au/research/papers/ %u2013 and I have some more recent papers/examples if anyone is interested. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
As someone who wants to pursue a graduate degree in interaction design, I'd like to say that I could only imagine something like design being taught in a studio/lecture environment. As a person with an education background, in-person education is optimal. Giving the concept some thought, while it's probably not the best way to learn something as kinesthetic as interaction design, I think to throw out the baby with the bathwater with the blanket statement of only in the classroom, imo, is unfair. I mean, isn't a large part of what we do as interaction designers to make interactions thought impossible on the web or computer possible? Perhaps, instead of saying that it's just not possible and to forget about it, we should be brainstorming ways to make learning something like interaction design online a plausible (maybe even preferred) experience...? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
The fact is, people learn different ways: 1. Audio (listening) 2. Kinesthetic (touchy-feely) 3. Visual (reading, seeing) As long as the curriculum accommodates for these different ways of learning, and it's of great quality, it's worthwhile to take. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:53 AM, Angel Marquez wrote: I totally disagree. I've worked with a few interaction designers that had reputable university degrees specific to interaction design and they were as you say 'worthless'. I asked one what web sites applications etc..she thought were well done and she said she didn't do that. Another had never heard of Tufte. Those were just the 2 examples off the top of my head. I would expect more from any breathing life form that had a pulse and the nerve to throw the title around. Design school doesn't necessarily make you a good designer: it only increases the probability that you are. In my experience past and current never seeing the people and conveying the message remote is ideal. I've seen more quality from 2 people in sync from a far than entire teams holding 2 weekly whiteboard sessions. There is a big difference between getting trained (school) and working on a project. I've learned more from reading your books than anyone ever taught me in class or by example. I would never want to monopolize the work place with my school crownies either. You cannot learn interaction design from books alone. I say this as the author of two of them and as someone who has taught design for several years. You can have read every book in the field and still be a lousy designer. The opposite is also true for a rare few. Dan Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
On Jan 21, 2009, at 7:08 AM, Kevin Doyle wrote: Giving the concept some thought, while it's probably not the best way to learn something as kinesthetic as interaction design, I think to throw out the baby with the bathwater with the blanket statement of only in the classroom, imo, is unfair. I mean, isn't a large part of what we do as interaction designers to make interactions thought impossible on the web or computer possible? Perhaps, instead of saying that it's just not possible and to forget about it, we should be brainstorming ways to make learning something like interaction design online a plausible (maybe even preferred) experience...? This is true. However, one of the things we should know as a designer is what we can replace with a technology solution, and what we cannot (or should not). The interactions with instructors (masters) and other students (apprentices) on a day-to-day working level is invaluable, and given our level of technology currently, I do not think it could be replicated effectively. Critiques, for instance, which are such a large part of a design education, would be difficult to conduct remotely. This is not just true of education, but of business as well. There's a reason consultants fly all over the place to meet face to face with clients or why distant teams occasionally still meet face to face: because nothing yet technologically is as high-bandwidth as being together in person. The nuance that happens via body language, gesture, expression, tone of voice, physical location, etc. is nigh impossible with our current technology. Dan Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
There's a reason consultants fly all over the place to meet face to face with clients or why distant teams occasionally still meet face to face: because nothing yet technologically is as high-bandwidth as being together in person I am presenting in front of stakeholders tomorrow. I could easily present all the wireframes, visual designs, stories in the format of an open narrative via WebEx and conference call - but I would miss the most important thing - the looks on stakeholder's faces as they are walked through the first iteration of the application - I can see frustration, confusion, cluelessness as well as excitement and elation - Without having videocams trained on every person and displayed in 10 different cam windows on my desktop could I get that most important of feedback. Same thing with design critiques - I would not say it HAS to be face to face - I just dont know if anything is available that brings about that level of intimacy which is important. ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.1281 | w...@semanticfoundry.com http://blog.semanticfoundry.com aim: semanticwill gtalk: semanticwill twitter: semanticwill On Jan 21, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Dan Saffer wrote: There's a reason consultants fly all over the place to meet face to face with clients or why distant teams occasionally still meet face to face: because nothing yet technologically is as high-bandwidth as being together in person Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
I like your description of high-bandwidth interactions. In what ways are interaction designers incorporating this into their designs? Rich, multi-media experiences? Video? Has anyone else tried out Adobe Connectnow? I'm thinking that the in-person and distance versions of these design courses and workshops probably have their own distinct advantages over the other. Yes, learning styles should come into play when deciding on the best route to take. I also wonder if another consideration might be what kind of work you're looking to get into. Is there such a thing as a telecommuting Interaction Designer? Why not! :) I think this could be relevant, especially for web designers. My personal preference is actually a mix of both distance and in-person interaction, both for learning, and for working. I like the high-bandwidth benefits, but also understand the value of distance and loosely-coupled communication. I bet a pint that a handful of curriculum designers are having this very conversation, as we speak! /derail Mike Caskey Denver, Colorado Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Interesting to see the various opinions. Probably necessary to explain that our current graduate programs rely on regular student-instructor and student-student group interaction. The co-located courses are offered evenings simultaneously between two campuses in KC and Lawrence, with the professor alternating between locations every week. We currently rely on Polycom systems. Not ideal, but a workable, fairly low cost solution for now. Blackboard offers useful asynchronous course backup for information sharing: readings, discussion boards, lecture material, etc. Lecture material can be videotaped and archived for reference. Ideally, we'd prefer having all students together at same time/place, but we've found that the benefits of this delivery channel outweigh most of the obvious limitations. This model contrasts from conventional distance learning models in that there's still plenty of face-to-face in a lecture/studio format. But it's been surprising how adaptive the learning experience can be without sacrificing qualities that make it meaningful and useful to people. We are getting requests to make these programs available remotely in a more conventional distance learning mode. It appears doable for the Design Management MA, but not well suited to the serious study of Interaction Design--at least with current commercially available technology. Hope this clarifies... Michael . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Having attended design school, completed a doctorate in HCI, taught graduate students in design, and being currently in a part-time MBA program, I believe there are few technical skills that you can't learn from books or online nowadays with some self-discipline. Granted, putting yourself in a classroom gains you access to a priceless network of classmates and instructors and the nurturing aspect of classroom collaboration as already mentioned. Yes, you can look forward to getting great feedback during design critiques from talented peers along with some motivation thrown in by grades and competition. These things cannot be replicated by an online program currently. But if they don't matter to you and your primary goal is to improve your technical skills or simply claim a graduate degree as a job qualification, then it'll probably make more economic sense to seek self-learning options or a distance program. The proof is in the pudding -- there are many famous designers who did not have a traditional design education (e.g. David Carson). Disclaimer: this is coming from someone who loves school. :-) From: Will Evans wkeva...@gmail.com To: Dan Saffer d...@odannyboy.com Cc: IxDA Discuss disc...@ixda.org Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:50:31 AM Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas There's a reason consultants fly all over the place to meet face to face with clients or why distant teams occasionally still meet face to face: because nothing yet technologically is as high-bandwidth as being together in person I am presenting in front of stakeholders tomorrow. I could easily present all the wireframes, visual designs, stories in the format of an open narrative via WebEx and conference call - but I would miss the most important thing - the looks on stakeholder's faces as they are walked through the first iteration of the application - I can see frustration, confusion, cluelessness as well as excitement and elation - Without having videocams trained on every person and displayed in 10 different cam windows on my desktop could I get that most important of feedback. Same thing with design critiques - I would not say it HAS to be face to face - I just dont know if anything is available that brings about that level of intimacy which is important. ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.1281 | w...@semanticfoundry.com http://blog.semanticfoundry.com aim: semanticwill gtalk: semanticwill twitter: semanticwill On Jan 21, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Dan Saffer wrote: There's a reason consultants fly all over the place to meet face to face with clients or why distant teams occasionally still meet face to face: because nothing yet technologically is as high-bandwidth as being together in person Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
I like your mixed-media, multi-channel approach. I think you only increase the richness of your courses by using this approach. I used to work at Regis University, where I evaluated and implemented existing technologies for things like distance learning. One of the gems I found for course facilitation was Moodle. It was quite nice for those loosely- coupled interactions and collaborations. At the time it didn't carry many features for live collaboration, but it was a very nice piece of work. And drumroll it's free open-source. Regis didn't end up using it officially, but a handful of professors ended up with their own instances of it for their own courses, since they preferred it (which speaks to me). Adobe ConnectNow is an interesting service for live presentation and collaboration. Mike Caskey Denver, Colorado Michael Eckersley wrote: Interesting to see the various opinions. Probably necessary to explain that our current graduate programs rely on regular student-instructor and student-student group interaction. The co-located courses are offered evenings simultaneously between two campuses in KC and Lawrence, with the professor alternating between locations every week. We currently rely on Polycom systems. Not ideal, but a workable, fairly low cost solution for now. Blackboard offers useful asynchronous course backup for information sharing: readings, discussion boards, lecture material, etc. Lecture material can be videotaped and archived for reference. Ideally, we'd prefer having all students together at same time/place, but we've found that the benefits of this delivery channel outweigh most of the obvious limitations. This model contrasts from conventional distance learning models in that there's still plenty of face-to-face in a lecture/studio format. But it's been surprising how adaptive the learning experience can be without sacrificing qualities that make it meaningful and useful to people. We are getting requests to make these programs available remotely in a more conventional distance learning mode. It appears doable for the Design Management MA, but not well suited to the serious study of Interaction Design--at least with current commercially available technology. Hope this clarifies... Michael . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
On Jan 21, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Phil Chung wrote: Having attended design school, completed a doctorate in HCI, taught graduate students in design, and being currently in a part-time MBA program, I believe there are few technical skills that you can't learn from books or online nowadays with some self-discipline. Interaction Design is MORE than technical skills. Technical skills/craft is extremely important, but do not a designer make. Best, Jack Jack L. Moffett Interaction Designer inmedius 412.459.0310 x219 http://www.inmedius.com It's not about the world of design; it's about the design of the world. - Bruce Mau Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Agreed, but the point was that anyone with motivation can pursue alternative paths to become a good designer if the cost-benefit analysis makes sense for them. To revisit the debate brought up by AIGA back in 2005: http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm/myths-of-the-self-taught-designer-the-first-conversation-between From: Jack Moffett jackmoff...@mac.com To: IxDA Discuss disc...@ixda.org Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:28:11 PM Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas On Jan 21, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Phil Chung wrote: Having attended design school, completed a doctorate in HCI, taught graduate students in design, and being currently in a part-time MBA program, I believe there are few technical skills that you can't learn from books or online nowadays with some self-discipline. Interaction Design is MORE than technical skills. Technical skills/craft is extremely important, but do not a designer make. Best, Jack Jack L. Moffett Interaction Designer inmedius 412.459.0310 x219 http://www.inmedius.com It's not about the world of design; it's about the design of the world. - Bruce Mau Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Here is the funny/ironical part of the whole discussion: Interaction Design is MORE than technical skills. Technical skills/craft is extremely important, but do not a designer make. I would ad that design school is neither a sufficient nor necessary requirement to be a designer, though the more pedagogically inclined may disagree with me simply to be disagreeable. Um - yes- a design studio work is good too, in addition, though I don't necessarily believe the hype, I mean orthodoxy, that Only by means of a formal design education with studio work/formal critical/ community of practice like mentor/apprentice structure can a great IxDer emerge, Further - those that would argue can only from a place of a false premise based on Faith, for there is no substantiated research that backs up their gut feeling) But all that misses the point because very few people/very very few - do all the things that they could possibly do that doesn't involved formal/meatspace training in a school or design studio. We talk a bit about all that can be learned from books, etc (and how key skills are missing) - but the fact remains - most people don't even do that (read all there is to read), which is of course the easiest way to at least augment the day by day practice of actually doing it. I highly recommend for many reasons getting formal design education, or training in a studio environment, but if thats simply not possible - are you doing everything else that really is possible first? Really? ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.1281 | w...@semanticfoundry.com http://blog.semanticfoundry.com aim: semanticwill gtalk: semanticwill twitter: semanticwill On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:33 PM, Phil Chung wrote: Interaction Design is MORE than technical skills. Technical skills/craft is extremely important, but do not a designer make. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Will, You raise a super point that I hadn't really thought about. Am I really doing all I can? In the clear light of day, no. I'm not. While a studio program isn't readily available to me, I'm also not doing anything else to further my education on my own.. I'll go back through the IxDA archives to find suggestions for books, tutorials, case studies, etc. I appreciate the intellectual kick in the pants. Ben Vaughan On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Will Evans wkeva...@gmail.com wrote: Here is the funny/ironical part of the whole discussion: Interaction Design is MORE than technical skills. Technical skills/craft is extremely important, but do not a designer make. I would ad that design school is neither a sufficient nor necessary requirement to be a designer, though the more pedagogically inclined may disagree with me simply to be disagreeable. Um - yes- a design studio work is good too, in addition, though I don't necessarily believe the hype, I mean orthodoxy, that Only by means of a formal design education with studio work/formal critical/community of practice like mentor/apprentice structure can a great IxDer emerge, Further - those that would argue can only from a place of a false premise based on Faith, for there is no substantiated research that backs up their gut feeling) But all that misses the point because very few people/very very few - do all the things that they could possibly do that doesn't involved formal/meatspace training in a school or design studio. We talk a bit about all that can be learned from books, etc (and how key skills are missing) - but the fact remains - most people don't even do that (read all there is to read), which is of course the easiest way to at least augment the day by day practice of actually doing it. I highly recommend for many reasons getting formal design education, or training in a studio environment, but if thats simply not possible - are you doing everything else that really is possible first? Really? ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.1281 | w...@semanticfoundry.com http://blog.semanticfoundry.com aim: semanticwill gtalk: semanticwill twitter: semanticwill Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
I believe that at a graduate level, online design education should be possible online. Many people will be going back for a masters degree after several years working in the industry and already have a foundation built. Yes, being able to collaborate in person is an experience that cannot be replicated, however, that is something many of us are used to at work as well. So many companies have teams collaborating across cities, states, and across the globe. Learning remotely supports the education of designing on a cross-cultural team and collaborating with people via email, content management systems, and video conferencing. Several years back, I both attended and worked for SCAD. When they introduced online learning, I signed up for a few courses and my experience was only slightly different from the classroom experience. Yes, there wasn't any face-time with students and professors, but I actually spent more time communicating with them via email and AIM and found the experience more positively challenging than in an in-person class. Later I went to CMU and took an online course in the software engineering department, and while not a design studio class, I felt the same about that experience as I had about the SCAD experience. For people who are already experienced in the discipline, I'm all for online education. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
As a long time system designer/BA/PM/SA/generalist type guy trying to transition my career to IxD/UX I've been struggling to find a remote curriculum because there shockingly seems to be no program in New York City (at least that I'm aware of) -- never mind a program for people working full time. While I see the benefits of studio design study and the apparent inability of such a group activity to be available virtually, I have a big problem with the idea that we can't find a way to use technology to impart the necessary skills and education that qualify someone to perform these design activities. Unfortunately I don't yet have a solution to that problem, but I certainly resist the idea that it is insurmountable. Ray . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Will, it is never about absolutes, but about critical mass. There will always be people who excel outside the directed path, but I'll take 100 years of education history that has gone through several generations of critique to (still) evolve into what it has achieved today towards creating designers, and use THAT as my model for creating design education than blow it up and start from scratch due to and i'll be blunt here: laziness, impatience, free market bullshit and lack of passion. 1. if you don't have it in your neck of the woods, stop looking for hacks, and build it or move. This is EXACTLY what China has done. They saw that being a manufacturing giant left them exposed and what did they do, put out a mission to have 400 design schools within the near future. 2. Find REAL alternatives. When formal education doesn't make sense, maybe it means you have to take a few steps backwards in your career to move forward. This is a model that many people including myself have done. I left the comfort of 2D design to work in an industrial design studio and the last 2 years were better than going to conferences, reading and remote learning for sure. Find your alternatives and don't be afraid to move backwards for a spell. To the educators. Don't pretend. Let's see the portfolios that come out of UK's hybrid program and then decide. In the end the proof is in the pudding and the portfolio quality is all that matters to future recruiters. I'm pessimistic of the program's ability to really transform people into designers with creative stamina that comes out of a 24/7 studio environment, but hey! let's see what happens. Employers/Recruiters: Get real about your expectations and hiring practices. Is the paper what you are looking for, or are you looking for great designers? Can you create programs and practices that build designers inside your current institutions? or are you just creating a carousel factory that people come in young, leave and new people come in at senior levels. What about building from within? this isn't just about tuition re-imbursement, but about moving past stupid rigid corporate policies around $2k limits for conferences, not creating in-house libraries, and having rigid requirements for management positions to have masters level education. The reason I point to the employers is that b/c of these stale philosophies educators really can't innovate correctly. they create remote education b/c of the lack of available market to support better and more practical education alternatives due to corporate rigidness and short-sightedness. Just sayin' Last point, it all depends on what you want to be when you grow up. If you want to work with other design disciplines studio as a language will be important. It was s hard for me culturally to fall into an ID studio and still I'm learning more teaching within an ID department at SCAD. Leaving behind my more rational and analytic thoughts and linguistic modes of constructing the world around me is taxing and wonderous. This won't happen for you unless you dive into a true design environment. Very few of us are going to be great, just b/c we are. We have to earn it, and we have to be open to change to reach for it. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Dan wrote: However, one of the things we should know as a designer is what we can replace with a technology solution, and what we cannot (or should not). The interactions with instructors (masters) and other students (apprentices) on a day-to-day working level is invaluable, and given our level of technology currently, I do not think it could be replicated effectively. Critiques, for instance, which are such a large part of a design education, would be difficult to conduct remotely. I'm so surprised that you think this way Dan because it's exactly looking at it from the wrong end of the telescope. The mistake is to think about replacing one thing with another on a simple one-to-one mapping basis. You have to look behind to the purpose of why anything is being done (or taught, in this case) the way it is. Certainly a face-to-face interaction between student and teacher is different from an online one, but both have positives and negatives. The reality of many programmes is that the student numbers have grown enormously in relation to staffing levels. That means that a student's face-to-face contact is often very minimal and, for some, non-existent. Face-to-face can also be dominated by a few enthusiastic or outgoing students, reducing the face time for the others even more. Online is much more even in that respect and the entire relationship is much more one of mentoring and guidance on a journey as teacher and student together than a top-down dynamic which, regardless of your style and personality, standing up in front of a roomful of students encourages. Crits are, in fact, one of the easiest things to do online, but you have to go back to basic principles and think what is the purpose of it? Why are we doing crits at all and are they the right way to help the student? The answer is probably yes, they do help, but you can give critique and guidance online very easily in text and/or voice (and video if you really want, but it's probably less useful than people imagine). The disadvantage is that it's not as speedy (see my previous post about brainstorming), but that's an advantage too. Other students can take time to think about their critique, harsh criticism is less embarrassing than in a face-to-face context and that makes it both easier for the student receiving it as well as easier for those giving it to be more honest because the social borders are slightly more distant. Is it the same as a face-to-face crit? No. Some kind of group video chat crit probably wouldn't work very well either because the technology is still too much in the way. But written and/or audio crits can work extremely well because they suit the online space much more %u2013 and that's the key to using the appropriate approach to the technology, which is why I was surprised at your take on all of this. It's easy to underestimate the amount of emotion a narrower bandwidth medium can convey just as its easy to forget just how much we miss in a face-to-face context. When Will wrote about seeing the face of the stakeholders and how critical that is, I agree. But I bet everyone on this list has also had the experience of hearing the tone of their partner's or friend's voice on the phone %u2013 or even in a text message - and knowing something is up as well as having the experience of being completely oblivious to the emotional state of someone even when they're in the same room. There are pros and cons to both face-to-face and online education when the approach and learning and teaching structure is misaligned. I've been to terribly dull face-to-face lectures and have read tedious online lectures, just as I have experienced brilliance in both. There are some approaches that I wouldn't use online just as I wouldn't (probably) get divorced via SMS. But then I wouldn't have as close a contact with my family (who live in another country) on a daily/weekly basis without the intimacy that e-mail and text messaging can bring. There is a tendency for everyone who is an expert in their own area to assume that their discipline is different and can't be taught online. I've seen it time and time again across universities. It's simply not true most of the time. The main problem is that we all are too close to what we do to be able to step out of it enough to look at the underlying principles of it and how we might teach them. There is no doubt that someone who has learned to be a designer via online education will be different from one who has learned on campus, but I would hesitate to say they are better or worse. They will, for example, be likely to be able to work independently and remotely better, which I wager will be an ever more important skill. In the end no design training really makes you ready for the pressure of a professional studio (or freelance life from home). That only comes when you actually have to do it - it's the pressure of the stakes that makes the difference. That said, there is a lot of terrible online
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Critiques, for instance, which are such a large part of a design education, would be difficult to conduct remotely. Constraints are the drivers of great design. We can always find ways to improve, but we first have to be willing to say it's possible. -r- Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
On Jan 21, 2009, at 8:21 AM, Andy Polaine wrote: The reality of many programmes is that the student numbers have grown enormously in relation to staffing levels. That means that a student's face-to-face contact is often very minimal and, for some, non-existent. That's an issue that should be addressed by administration (increase staffing or don't accept so many students). Besides, I don't see how distance learning fixes this issue. It takes more time and effort to communicate remotely. Face-to-face can also be dominated by a few enthusiastic or outgoing students, reducing the face time for the others even more. That's an issue that should be recognized and addressed by the teacher. Online is much more even in that respect and the entire relationship is much more one of mentoring and guidance on a journey as teacher and student together than a top-down dynamic which, regardless of your style and personality, standing up in front of a roomful of students encourages. I disagree. This really comes down to the teacher. There is nothing inherent in a studio classroom that disallows a mentoring journey as you've described it, and nothing inherent in the distance-learning technology to promote it. Crits are, in fact, one of the easiest things to do online, but you have to go back to basic principles and think what is the purpose of it? Why are we doing crits at all and are they the right way to help the student? The answer is probably yes, they do help, No probably about it. but you can give critique and guidance online very easily in text and/or voice (and video if you really want, but it's probably less useful than people imagine). The disadvantage is that it's not as speedy (see my previous post about brainstorming), but that's an advantage too. Other students can take time to think about their critique, harsh criticism is less embarrassing than in a face-to-face context and that makes it both easier for the student receiving it as well as easier for those giving it to be more honest because the social borders are slightly more distant. I'm sorry, but this sounds like you are saying it is okay for a design student to be introverted, fragile, and lacking in self-confidence. Critiques are DESIGNED to instill qualities in designers that will prepare them for the realities of the industry. Is it the same as a face-to-face crit? No. Some kind of group video chat crit probably wouldn't work very well either because the technology is still too much in the way. But written and/or audio crits can work extremely well because they suit the online space much more %u2013 and that's the key to using the appropriate approach to the technology, which is why I was surprised at your take on all of this. I would never say it is impossible to have a good, on-line critique. However, in the short amount of time I've been thinking about it, every solution that I know of or start to imagine is based on trying to support the activities that are natural in-person. They are substitutes. They are less effective. It's easy to underestimate the amount of emotion a narrower bandwidth medium can convey just as its easy to forget just how much we miss in a face-to-face context. When Will wrote about seeing the face of the stakeholders and how critical that is, I agree. But I bet everyone on this list has also had the experience of hearing the tone of their partner's or friend's voice on the phone %u2013 or even in a text message - and knowing something is up as well as having the experience of being completely oblivious to the emotional state of someone even when they're in the same room. Are you trying to say that an audio-only communication, or a text-only communication has an equal chance of being correctly interpreted as face-to-face communication? I don't buy it. There is a tendency for everyone who is an expert in their own area to assume that their discipline is different and can't be taught online. I've seen it time and time again across universities. It's simply not true most of the time. The main problem is that we all are too close to what we do to be able to step out of it enough to look at the underlying principles of it and how we might teach them. Again, I would never say that it can't be taught online. But I will adamantly argue that it can't be done as effectively. There is no doubt that someone who has learned to be a designer via online education will be different from one who has learned on campus, but I would hesitate to say they are better or worse. They will, for example, be likely to be able to work independently and remotely better, which I wager will be an ever more important skill. There are no absolutes, as has already been stated. Better or worse depends on many more variables than the quality or presence of education. Quality education, however, significantly ups your chances for being on the better side of things. And, as
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Andy, a few comments: re: scale (# of students) Education is not just a business. Yes, it IS a business. Or more aptly, it has to deal with financial realities like every one/thing else. But education is also a social contract. Keeping class sizes reasonable and not degrading methods for the purpose of increasing profits. Further, I'm severely worried that the way we as educators are responding to the new and heavy demands for post-graduate education. How do we respond to it? I know I'm not being clear, but it seems to me that the rush to remote education especially in the design context where knowledge is but a piece of the total of the education system. Here's my thought. A person gets a masters degree remotely. They have a diploma and a set of transcripts, but is that masters REALLY 1) a true masterery of the material, methods, practice, culture and philosophy behind the degree? 2) the same value as the same degree (in title) from another institution? Of course, we already have secondary methods of evaluating degrees, right? I.e. we prefer ivy league degrees over others, or we look at specific degree ranking publications, etc. etc. But my concern is that we are actually in this mad rush to educate ourselves and provide the service of education, and not thinking about the long term ramifications of the services we are offering. re: Critique Andy, my reading of what you suggest about critique doesn't make sense to me. critique is not something you offer, but something you facilitate as an instructor. Critique in the studio is about the students more than it is about you. For me this requires 2 things to work: 1) Real-time communication and 2) small groups. the reason is that it requires manageability and relationship building. For students to critique each other well they need to have that relationship that comes from the camaraderie of small group studio. This also takes time to develop. Now one might argue, suggest that studio is for undergraduate education. This is where design education teaches studio and critique (as it well should) and thus it is not needed in the masters level. I would love to think so, but way too many applying to interaction design programs have never gone through foundation studio courses of any kind, so the grad environment is where they'd be able to do just that. For example the ID program at Pratt is 2 years for people who have a design degree (bachelors) and 3 years for everyone else b/c they require a full year of foundation before you continue into the real degree program. At SCAD, I understand we do this based on portfolio review. if your portfolio doesn't demonstrate undergraduate abilities, we tell the student they have to do the undergrad version of the courses before they can continue at the grad level. (obviously, increasing their time in the program). I think the MBA has killed education. Seriously, the MBA has been crafted to be a cookie cutter degree, towards the purpose of going to the next step in the bank or consultancy practice. B/c it is this vocational requirement there is a mass economic system around MBAs all over the world. It feels like to me that we are expecting the same type of education system to take place in our design education and career paths and I feel this is a shame. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Interesting discussion. I'm really happy to see my undergraduate alma mater offering these degrees! Margaret . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
This sounds like an amazing program. My only concern is, how well will KCU do in regards to keeping the curriculum relevant with an industry that is changing on a daily basis? That is the main reason I dropped out of college after I receiving my AS, the curriculum just was not relevant anymore, it was all out dated. I discussed this with one of my teachers and he told me Jeremy, don't let college get in the way of your education and he was right. I have often thought of going back but there just wasn't a degree I was interested in because, first; I was afraid that the same thing would happen again as far as the curriculum being out dated and second; no schools really offered a degree like this. I am willing to give it a shot though. Does anyone else share this same fear? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37349 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Dan, Thanks for you thoughts. Of course every opinion is welcome. I agree that the studio experience is the most beneficial way to learn. However, I must respectfully disagree that the only way to benefit from a program is by personally attending. Further, as the sole support of my family with a wife still recovering from the West Nile virus, to leave a well paying, relatively secure job in this economy to attend a program full time without any sort of viable income is not just a sacrifice, it's well nigh insane. Further, I would ask what about those people overseas wishing to enter the world of IxD. Remote learning is perhaps the only option for them. In my opinion, for those whose circumstances don't allow them to 'feel free to move about the country', remote learning, while not the best choice, is still a choice. While I respect your opinion, I have to say that I reacted most strongly to your sweeping characterization that the only way to find success was the way you did. Perhaps that's not what you intended. Regardless, I would invite you to perhaps consider that the circumstances of others may not be as you perceive them. With Respect, Ben Vaughan On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Dan Saffer d...@odannyboy.com wrote: On Jan 19, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Ben Vaughan wrote: As a Dad who's we established in Colorado, are there any plans for distance learning? I hope not. While I understand the plight of people who aren't located near a good (or any) interaction design program, I don't think it is a discipline that can be taught effectively from afar. The studio nature of a reputable design program almost requires the kind of high-touch, high-bandwidth interactions that only face to face to can effectively impart. There is also the interactions with other students, which can be even more valuable over time than the professors. The bonding that occurs in a design studio at 3 a.m. has yet to be replicated online. And lest you think I'm unaware of the difficulties, I sold my house and moved my family (including my 3-year-old daughter) to Pittsburgh for two years to get my degree. Others in my program lived apart from their families and commuted to distant cities in order to get their degree. It was a sacrifice. But the barriers are there to show us how much we really want something, to paraphrase Randy Pausch. There's always an excuse not to do something. Dan Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:03 PM, Ben Vaughan wrote: However, I must respectfully disagree that the only way to benefit from a program is by personally attending. Based on what exactly? Is there anyone on the list who has attended design school who thinks it can be taught remotely? If so, that's an opinion I've yet to hear. Further, as the sole support of my family with a wife still recovering from the West Nile virus, to leave a well paying, relatively secure job in this economy to attend a program full time without any sort of viable income is not just a sacrifice, it's well nigh insane. Then perhaps a degree in IxD isn't your path. There are others. Or you wait until your circumstances change. Further, I would ask what about those people overseas wishing to enter the world of IxD. Remote learning is perhaps the only option for them. In my opinion, for those whose circumstances don't allow them to 'feel free to move about the country', remote learning, while not the best choice, is still a choice. You cannot remotely learn interaction design at a university level. It's not a good choice. The quality of the education you will get will not be good, and the importance of a degree is measured not only in what you directly learn, but the opportunities it opens up for you. A poor program will not only waste your time and money, but won't have an effective network to help you find jobs later. The degree will be nearly worthless. While I respect your opinion, I have to say that I reacted most strongly to your sweeping characterization that the only way to find success was the way you did. Perhaps that's not what you intended. I've never said graduate school was the only way to success. There are successful people on this list who never finished high school, much less grad school. But if you want to attend grad school in interaction design, my opinion is the only way to do it is in-person, on-site. The curriculum cannot be effectively taught remotely. Channeling Simon Cowell, Dan Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Michael, It's super to hear that an IX program is getting started in the center of the country. As a Dad who's we established in Colorado, are there any plans for distance learning? If so, I would definitely be interested in your program. Thanks for pushing IxD. Regards, Ben Vaughan On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Michael Eckersley mich...@humancentered.net wrote: Dear IXDA Members, Last January, 2008 The University of Kansas launched two new professional graduate programs: one in Interaction Design and another in Design Management. The programs were years in the making and are headed up by myself, Michael Eckersley and Richard Branham, with other strong contributing faculty. More on Richard and myself below. Beginning year two we have 24 active graduate students between the two programs, many of them working professionals in the Kansas City area. Both grad programs lead to a 31 credit hour MA degree, , with a 60 credit MFA degree program option. Sample course titles for Interaction Design include: Interaction Design; Design Scenarios Simulations; Designing Business Services Consumer Experiences; and, Advanced Human Factors in Design. Sample Design Management courses include: Design Management; Design Strategies Methods; Strategic Design Innovation; and, Branding and Design. Most required and elective courses are taught evenings. Some courses are video conferenced between KU campuses in Kansas City and Lawrence. We are actively recruiting applicants for Fall 2009, with a deadline of April 1. Below are some links for more information. The bottom of each web page is a downloadable pdf program description. Interaction Design link: www.arts.ku.edu/design/interaction Design Management link: www.arts.ku.edu/design/management I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have at m...@ku.edu. Formal requests for application materials can be made to Professor Gina Westergard (gi...@ku.edu), Graduate Program Director. Best Regards, Michael Eckersley, PhD Professor, Interaction Design Design Management University of Kansas m...@ku.edu Principal, HumanCentered .. Richard Branham is Professor of Industrial Design at KU, working in areas of cognitive human factors and interaction design strategies, methods and techniques, specializing in way-finding, navigation and use models. He has over thirty years of professional experience developing interfaces between people and technology, and twenty-five years of teaching and research experience. He holds BFA and MFA degrees from The University of Kansas and a MS degree from the Institute of Design, Illinois Institute of Technology (IIT). Branham founded the Information and Design Systems Division of Unimark International. He founded Design Planning Group in Chicago. Major clients have included Carlton Centre, Johannesburg, Gillette Company, Marshall Field, J. C. Penney, New York, Volkswagen, and Westinghouse. Michael Eckersley leads HumanCentered (www.humancentered.net), a team of affiliated social scientists, designers and planners. With an MFA in design and a PhD in cognitive science, Michael served as Design Strategy Director for Sybase in their online financial services business, and has led many strategic design innovation engagements to consumer product, fast food, healthcare, publishing, financial services and software companies. Clients include: Yum!brands; Black Decker; GMAC; Coca-Cola; St John's Mercy Health System; 3point5.com; Banco Popular; and, Hakuhodo Michael Eckersley, PhD | Principal HumanCentered mich...@humancentered.net Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Masters Programs in Interaction Design and Design Management at University of Kansas
Dear IXDA Members, Last January, 2008 The University of Kansas launched two new professional graduate programs: one in Interaction Design and another in Design Management. The programs were years in the making and are headed up by myself, Michael Eckersley and Richard Branham, with other strong contributing faculty. More on Richard and myself below. Beginning year two we have 24 active graduate students between the two programs, many of them working professionals in the Kansas City area. Both grad programs lead to a 31 credit hour MA degree, , with a 60 credit MFA degree program option. Sample course titles for Interaction Design include: Interaction Design; Design Scenarios Simulations; Designing Business Services Consumer Experiences; and, Advanced Human Factors in Design. Sample Design Management courses include: Design Management; Design Strategies Methods; Strategic Design Innovation; and, Branding and Design. Most required and elective courses are taught evenings. Some courses are video conferenced between KU campuses in Kansas City and Lawrence. We are actively recruiting applicants for Fall 2009, with a deadline of April 1. Below are some links for more information. The bottom of each web page is a downloadable pdf program description. Interaction Design link: www.arts.ku.edu/design/interaction Design Management link: www.arts.ku.edu/design/management I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have at m...@ku.edu. Formal requests for application materials can be made to Professor Gina Westergard (gi...@ku.edu), Graduate Program Director. Best Regards, Michael Eckersley, PhD Professor, Interaction Design Design Management University of Kansas m...@ku.edu Principal, HumanCentered .. Richard Branham is Professor of Industrial Design at KU, working in areas of cognitive human factors and interaction design strategies, methods and techniques, specializing in way-finding, navigation and use models. He has over thirty years of professional experience developing interfaces between people and technology, and twenty-five years of teaching and research experience. He holds BFA and MFA degrees from The University of Kansas and a MS degree from the Institute of Design, Illinois Institute of Technology (IIT). Branham founded the Information and Design Systems Division of Unimark International. He founded Design Planning Group in Chicago. Major clients have included Carlton Centre, Johannesburg, Gillette Company, Marshall Field, J. C. Penney, New York, Volkswagen, and Westinghouse. Michael Eckersley leads HumanCentered (www.humancentered.net), a team of affiliated social scientists, designers and planners. With an MFA in design and a PhD in cognitive science, Michael served as Design Strategy Director for Sybase in their online financial services business, and has led many strategic design innovation engagements to consumer product, fast food, healthcare, publishing, financial services and software companies. Clients include: Yum!brands; Black Decker; GMAC; Coca-Cola; St John's Mercy Health System; 3point5.com; Banco Popular; and, Hakuhodo Michael Eckersley, PhD | Principal HumanCentered mich...@humancentered.net Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
