Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
Feedback has started its new run on Radio 4, and I just listened to last week's episode (June 19th). At 20:10 is a piece on the glorious future of digital listening, which is supposed to be an ongoing feature with listeners comments on what the BBC is doing. Technology specialist Stewart Miles provides more information, but internet radios don't get a mention. Stewart Miles does say that he wants to visit listeners to get their views - and find out how we listen. He briefly mentions connected speakers in this bit. Might be worth it for some of the UK SB owners to call in. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05y178v ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: I guess so. No one else have a view? I have until 18th June to apply. Well done PasTim and many thanks for continuing so steadfastly with this issue. Sadly, I have to agree that it really isn't worth trying to take this particular issue any further. We're not going to change what's been done but, perhaps, the BBC will think more carefully about how they implement any further changes they have in mind. Not least because, as a result of our efforts, quite a number of influential people in the current all Conservative government may now have this on their list of BBC travesties for consideration at a future date. ChipMonk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40072 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ftlight wrote: At this point I'd say you've taken it as far as makes sense. I think anything after this would be unproductive. I guess so. No one else have a view? I have until 18th June to apply. LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 15.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, plus spare, but unused. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
Yes I too sadly have to agree... really frustrating but save our strength for the next battles :-( Giza2020's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36318 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: I guess so. No one else have a view? I have until 18th June to apply. Sadly, I think it's not worth pursuing. Save your strength for the next battle ... Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
I doubt that oft-repeated phrase 'lessons have been learnt' will apply, since they don't seem to think they did much wrong. As to HMG, I don't think any of them will have noticed, or if they did they'll have forgotten. The future of the Beeb is an ideological issue. I still believe in it (not least having seen and listened to quite a lot of overseas TV and Radio over the years), but it's very frustrating at times. LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 15.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, plus spare, but unused. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ChipMonk wrote: Not least because, as a result of our efforts, quite a number of influential people in the current all Conservative government may now have this on their list of BBC travesties for consideration at a future date. I don't think they give a flying F about this, other than to use as ammunition to break-up the BBC. Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
And sorry I should have also said thank you for pushing this PasTim .. appreciate the effort As far as the BBC learning from it mistakes, taking a look at how they are breaking iPlayer apps on Kodi and other 3rd party systems at the moment gives me no confidence at all! The only positive is .. TV carries more interest than radio (IMHO) so if they keep screwing that up someone will have to answer Giza2020's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36318 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
Thanks to all for the responses. My inclination was not to proceed any further, and I'm glad to see so many agree. I'll let it drop. The complete final correspondence is attached if anyone is interested. +---+ |Filename: 2015-06-04 Response from Senior Editorial Adviser.pdf| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18254| +---+ LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 15.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, plus spare, but unused. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ChipMonk wrote: Hence why the BBC might be a little more circumspect in future. But hey, I'm letting my inner optimist get the better of me - in truth nowt will change. The BBC has its 5 year plan, regardless of outcomes, and the Conservatives have their prejudices, regardless of outcomes. Meanwhile my squeezebox systems are running great, thanks to really useful outcomes from this group, and I'm really quite content with the things in general. True, and agreed. LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 15.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, plus spare, but unused. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
castalla wrote: I don't think they give a flying F about this, other than to use as ammunition to break-up the BBC. Hence why the BBC might be a little more circumspect in future. But hey, I'm letting my inner optimist get the better of me - in truth nowt will change. The BBC has its 5 year plan, regardless of outcomes, and the Conservatives have their prejudices, regardless of outcomes. Meanwhile my squeezebox systems are running great, thanks to really useful outcomes from this group, and I'm really quite content with the things in general. ChipMonk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40072 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
At this point I'd say you've taken it as far as makes sense. I think anything after this would be unproductive. ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
I have had a response to my 'stage 2' appeal from the BBC. Unsurprisingly they have decided to reject it and not forward it to the trustees. The substance of the response is the usual bureaucratic verbiage. I think it means that it's none of the Trusts's business how the BBC is run. Is it worth spending license payer's money in trying to get a 'stage 3' appeal to the trustees? -Decision of the Senior Editorial Adviser The Senior Editorial Adviser (the Adviser) acknowledged that the complainant felt badly let down by the way in which the change had been handled by BBC Digital and was very sympathetic to how frustrating he had found both the loss of internet radio streams and also the way the BBC had handled communicating these changes to listeners. However, she decided that the complainants appeal did not have a reasonable prospect of success. She sympathised with the complainant over the difficulties he had experienced in getting his complaint fully addressed by the BBC and noted that he had repeatedly asked to escalate his complaint. However, she noted that the General Manager of Product, Radio, at BBC Digital had given a detailed explanation of the current position at stage 2 and had apologised for the fact that BBC Digitals communication plan had not had the desired result. She noted that the situation was being reviewed and that BBC Digital had adjusted its plans based on both feedback from industry colleagues and the BBC audience. She appreciated that the complainant was not satisfied either with the response, or the steps BBC Digital was taking to address this operational issue, but she noted that under the terms of the Royal Charter and accompanying Agreement between the Secretary of State, the BBC drew a distinction between the role of the BBC Trust and that of the BBC Executive Board. The operational management of the BBC was defined as a duty that was the responsibility of the Executive Board rather than the Trust. Taking this into account the Adviser considered Trustees would be likely to conclude that the appeal did not have a reasonable prospect of success. She therefore did not consider it was appropriate, proportionate or cost-effective to proceed with the appeal and did not propose to put it before Trustees.- LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 15.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, plus spare, but unused. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
From the BBC Nitro Public License https://developer.bbc.co.uk/nitropubliclicence To access BBC Nitro, you will first need to register and create an app at developer.bbc.co.uk. The BBC will then provide you with an electronic access key that will make certain features of BBC Nitro available to you through feeds, depending on the access level given to you. These features range from access to programme times and titles, past/future schedules and programme images. Your access to BBC Nitro will, however, be subject to rate limits set by the BBC from time to time regarding the frequency and the number of times you can access BBC Nitro. If plugin developer uses a single key for a Plugin then BBC will aggregate all uses of the key by all users and so developer could never control the frequency or number of times the plugin accesses Nitro - potentially locking all users out. As the key will be in a Perl plugin it will be open access and so it could be copied easily and used by others say to do a DDOS type attack on Nitro.. So it looks like every Plugin user would have to register with Nitro to use the same plugin, for security and to ensure frequency and number of access is under individual responsibility. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
Seems likely they should be able to cope with providing keys that will be used this way - distributed to many users. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
drmatt wrote: Seems likely they should be able to cope with providing keys that will be used this way - distributed to many users. Don't think so - BBC are thinking app as in Android or IOS and not Plugin. More details on Rate limiting from the developers doc. - the concept of your volumetric implies a client taking info from BBC and delivering to apps - centrally controlled just like BBC iPlayer app. Rate limiting As mentioned above, Nitro is rate limited for all clients, and you should consider how your client will behave in the event of a rate limitation. We do this to ensure no one client consumes all of the available Nitro resource to the exclusion of others, as has happened in the past. #8226; If your volumetrics expect a high number of calls to your product or service, you should consider a pattern that manages how many of those requests turn into unique Nitro calls #8226; If you need a higher rate limit than that available, you may need to request one from the BBC. Contractual partners should approach their BBC representative in the first instance. #8226; You should behave appropriately if Nitro fails to respond for short periods or responds with a non-200 status. Clients must avoid retrying failed requests indefinitely, and should use random delays after a failure. Some clients have chosen to implement circuit-breakers to help with this. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
utgg wrote: The BBC iPlayer app on android uses a single Nitro api key, which is pretty easy to find out. So I guess your comment about a DDOS type attack could apply to that key. As that one is under the BBC's control, I suppose they probably allow nearly unlimited access though. So I use a single key and it gets taken by a user - I get the blame by the BBC, the key gets revoked and all users of the plugin suffer. Alternative is all user of plugin have to register with BBC for a key as a developer, described their App (the same one for each user) and hope BBC will issue a key. Given that BBCiPlayer plugin has been downloaded up to about 16,000 times and I'm sure there are multiple downloads so perhaps would the BBC be happy to issue say 4,000 keys ? bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
bpa wrote: From the BBC Nitro Public License https://developer.bbc.co.uk/nitropubliclicence If plugin developer uses a single key for a Plugin then BBC will aggregate all uses of the key by all users and so developer could never control the frequency or number of times the plugin accesses Nitro - potentially locking all users out. As the key will be in a Perl plugin it will be open access and so it could be copied easily and used by others say to do a DDOS type attack on Nitro.. So it looks like every Plugin user would have to register with Nitro to use the same plugin, for security and to ensure frequency and number of access is under individual responsibility. The BBC iPlayer app on android uses a single Nitro api key, which is pretty easy to find out. So I guess your comment about a DDOS type attack could apply to that key. As that one is under the BBC's control, I suppose they probably allow nearly unlimited access though. A get the impression that the BBC expect 3 classes of use of this API: [Apps under their own control, e.g. iPlayer, which can access the Nitro api directly Syndication partners, who front their users through their own servers, so probably only have a low number of Nitro accesses which only come from their own servers. Personal users, who do their own thing with their own API key, so expected low usage of the API. ] utgg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40900 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ftlight wrote: After our (well-justified) ranting about the fiasco, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to be supportive now. I looked at the BBC Nitro Public Licence link and found this: How can I use BBC Nitro? You may: copy and use BBC Programme Metadata on your website, in your application, blog, on a social media network or use BBC Programme Metadata for academic research purposes; and customise BBC Programme Metadata by selecting, deleting and rearranging identifiable sections of it for those uses. The permission for use of the metadata in your application sounds promising. Well who amongst us is best qualified to comment on the BBC blog itself ? I'm too ignorant of the details to make a really positive comment, whilst understanding what sort of potentially horrible wrinkles might yet surface. LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 15.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, plus spare, but unused. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ftlight wrote: News on BBC Nitro, just posted on the Internet Blog: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/bc82562e-ea9d-4655-982d-e6219b2c877b Some hope, perhaps: Access to Nitro is provided via an API key. This determines the quota (number of requests allowed in a given time interval) that each developer application can use. This is useful as it allows us to ensure that no single application can overwhelm the system and prevent critical clients from obtaining their data. It also provides us with a way to profile individual client usage and where appropriate provide ways to optimize their use of Nitro. To obtain a key to access Nitro it is necessary to register via the Developer Portal. Currently access is limited to BBC teams but we are working on the changes required to open this up to external non-commercial and hobbyist users; this should be available later this year (a project known as Nitro Public). In the meantime you can read more about Nitro and how it works in the documentation section of the portal, as well as the terms of use and Nitro Public Licence. I know weve said this before, so please bear with us we are working on it and will get it done this year. Nitro is also available for business and commercial use through a syndication agreement. Details of this can be found here. I wonder if the xml feeds Triode's plugin currently uses fall under the Dynamite system they say is about to be retired in June. Are we in the category of Its also possible that there are unauthorized unidentified 3rd party apps services that use Dynamite; these will stop working. Bpa asked for a Nitro API key a while back and got nowhere. utgg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40900 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: Should one of us show polite and encouraging interest by commenting?? After our (well-justified) ranting about the fiasco, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to be supportive now. I looked at the BBC Nitro Public Licence link and found this: How can I use BBC Nitro? You may: copy and use BBC Programme Metadata on your website, in your application, blog, on a social media network or use BBC Programme Metadata for academic research purposes; and customise BBC Programme Metadata by selecting, deleting and rearranging identifiable sections of it for those uses. The permission for use of the metadata in your application sounds promising. ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
utgg wrote: I wonder if the xml feeds Triode's plugin currently uses fall under the Dynamite system they say is about to be retired in June. Are we in the category of Its also possible that there are unauthorized unidentified 3rd party apps services that use Dynamite; these will stop working. Bpa asked for a Nitro API key a while back and got nowhere. API is still retricted to BBC employees so we'll have to wait for Nitro Public. However it was the TCs that made Nitro unusable with a Perl plugin context (e.g. IIRC the developer had to track requests and make sure requests did not exceed a certain rate ) - have they made the Nitro Public TCs available yet - if not why comment - they've already decided what in Nitro Public and waht we need - Aunty knows best. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
This page has a pdf Nitro for Clients which will hopefullly make sense to the developers here: https://developer.bbc.co.uk/file/5 ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
News on BBC Nitro, just posted on the Internet Blog: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/bc82562e-ea9d-4655-982d-e6219b2c877b Some hope, perhaps: Access to Nitro is provided via an API key. This determines the quota (number of requests allowed in a given time interval) that each developer application can use. This is useful as it allows us to ensure that no single application can overwhelm the system and prevent critical clients from obtaining their data. It also provides us with a way to profile individual client usage and where appropriate provide ways to optimize their use of Nitro. To obtain a key to access Nitro it is necessary to register via the Developer Portal. Currently access is limited to BBC teams but we are working on the changes required to open this up to external non-commercial and hobbyist users; this should be available later this year (a project known as Nitro Public). In the meantime you can read more about Nitro and how it works in the documentation section of the portal, as well as the terms of use and Nitro Public Licence. I know we#8217;ve said this before, so please bear with us #8211; we are working on it and will get it done this year. Nitro is also available for business and commercial use through a syndication agreement. Details of this can be found here. ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ftlight wrote: News on BBC Nitro, just posted on the Internet Blog: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/bc82562e-ea9d-4655-982d-e6219b2c877b Some hope, perhaps: Access to Nitro is provided via an API key. This determines the quota (number of requests allowed in a given time interval) that each developer application can use. This is useful as it allows us to ensure that no single application can overwhelm the system and prevent critical clients from obtaining their data. It also provides us with a way to profile individual client usage and where appropriate provide ways to optimize their use of Nitro. To obtain a key to access Nitro it is necessary to register via the Developer Portal. Currently access is limited to BBC teams but we are working on the changes required to open this up to external non-commercial and hobbyist users; this should be available later this year (a project known as Nitro Public). In the meantime you can read more about Nitro and how it works in the documentation section of the portal, as well as the terms of use and Nitro Public Licence. I know weve said this before, so please bear with us we are working on it and will get it done this year. Nitro is also available for business and commercial use through a syndication agreement. Details of this can be found here. Should one of us show polite and encouraging interest by commenting?? LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 15.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, plus spare, but unused. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
shoshani wrote: This is unrelated to the BBC fiasco directly, yet in an unrelated sense probably bears careful attention because I have a feeling this is where the BBC will be going within a few years: http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/19/8453165/norway-end-fm-radio-2017 Key quote is at the end: Norway's FM shutdown will begin on January 11th, 2017. They're moving entirely to DAB/DAB+ On the contrary. The recent BBC fiasco with the internet streams is likely to have shaken the public's confidence in digital radio still further and only makes FM more attractive for non-techie types. Therefore, resistance to a radio DSO will have probably increased further. Regards, Nick Nick_G's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38427 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
This is unrelated to the BBC fiasco directly, yet in an unrelated sense probably bears careful attention because I have a feeling this is where the BBC will be going within a few years: http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/19/8453165/norway-end-fm-radio-2017 Key quote is at the end: Norway's FM shutdown will begin on January 11th, 2017. They're moving entirely to DAB/DAB+ shoshani's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64193 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
I see that over at the BBC Internet Blog the comments have now been closed. Does this mean Mr Scott is about to post a new blog entry ? No. I doubt it as well. Its a month to the day since his original post - auto expiry of comments ? More likely. Or was castalla a naughty boy and posted once too often ? *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
d6jg wrote: I see that over at the BBC Internet Blog the comments have now been closed. Does this mean Mr Scott is about to post a new blog entry ? No. I doubt it as well. Its a month to the day since his original post - auto expiry of comments ? More likely. Or was castalla a naughty boy and posted once too often ? Well, it obvious that the discussion will continue in the new series of W1A starting next week. It's all good. Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
castalla wrote: Well, it obvious that the discussion will continue in the new series of W1A starting next week. It's all good. :) *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
castalla wrote: Well, it obvious that the discussion will continue in the new series of W1A starting next week. It's all good. THE LOVE! I FEEL IT! BTW, anyone else have any trouble yesterday and today with R2 and R3 intermittently cutting out for long annoying stretches on the online radioplayer? (It's BBC; Classic FM had no hiccups at all.) shoshani's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64193 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
I just received this. Should I bother to try? - Thank you for taking the time to contact us and we appreciate that you felt strongly enough to write to us again. We have noted your points and are sorry to learn you were not satisfied with our earlier response. You've already had a response from Andrew Scott, the general manager for BBC iPlayer Radio and we are sorry to tell you that we have nothing to add to our previous reply. If you remain dissatisfied about our decision you can appeal to the BBC Trust, the body which represents licence fee payers. The Trust has asked that we should explain to complainants that the BBC's Royal Charter draws a clear distinction between the role of the Trust - which determines the overall scope of the BBC's services and sets its standards - and that of the BBC Executive - which runs the Corporation and decides what to broadcast and publish. The Trust does not entertain every appeal submitted to it. It will normally hear appeals about the Executives decisions only if a complainant can show that they involved a potential breach of the BBC's published standards, or that an operational decision has raised significant issues of general importance. The Trust is the final arbiter of which appeals it should consider. For the full information about the BBC Trusts appeals procedures please visit www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/governance/complaints_framework/. If you wish to submit an appeal you must write within 20 working days of receiving this reply, explaining why you wish to appeal. You can contact the BBC Trust at 180 Great Portland Street, London W1W 5QZ, or by emailing trust.editor...@bbc.co.uk. Please would you include for them the relevant case reference which you may have been given. Thank you again for contacting us. Kind regards Philip Young BBC Audience Services www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer- LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: I just received this. Should I bother to try? - Thank you for taking the time to contact us and we appreciate that you felt strongly enough to write to us again. We have noted your points and are sorry to learn you were not satisfied with our earlier response. You've already had a response from Andrew Scott, the general manager for BBC iPlayer Radio and we are sorry to tell you that we have nothing to add to our previous reply. If you remain dissatisfied about our decision you can appeal to the BBC Trust, the body which represents licence fee payers. The Trust has asked that we should explain to complainants that the BBC's Royal Charter draws a clear distinction between the role of the Trust - which determines the overall scope of the BBC's services and sets its standards - and that of the BBC Executive - which runs the Corporation and decides what to broadcast and publish. The Trust does not entertain every appeal submitted to it. It will normally hear appeals about the Executives decisions only if a complainant can show that they involved a potential breach of the BBC's published standards, or that an operational decision has raised significant issues of general importance. The Trust is the final arbiter of which appeals it should consider. For the full information about the BBC Trusts appeals procedures please visit www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/governance/complaints_framework/. If you wish to submit an appeal you must write within 20 working days of receiving this reply, explaining why you wish to appeal. You can contact the BBC Trust at 180 Great Portland Street, London W1W 5QZ, or by emailing trust.editor...@bbc.co.uk. Please would you include for them the relevant case reference which you may have been given. Thank you again for contacting us. Kind regards Philip Young BBC Audience Services www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer- We used to refer to this sort of process as 'File 13' = or rather, the rubbish bin. A waste of time and effort imho - others have already complained to the Trust and just got an anodyne reply amounting to 'shove off'. The real issue is to discover why manufacturers haven't updated ... and if not, when will they, if ever Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: I just received this. Should I bother to try? Tilting at windmills? http://tinyurl.com/qg55u6m *Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet) *Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.9 Squeezelite *Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone6 iPadAir2 (iPeng8 Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop *Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
garym wrote: Tilting at windmills? http://tinyurl.com/qg55u6m Funny you should mention this but the Picasso version has been my avatar on all my personal accounts for about 10 years. Any links to lost causes in general and anthropomorphic global warming in particular are entirely coincidental! To PasTim - you/we all have put so much wasted time into this business already, if you could be bothered to do another copy paste (just like the BBC) and send that to the Trust then you should do so. Probably achieve no more than any of us so far but a nice parting shot. ChipMonk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40072 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: I'll have a go, with no expectation of success. Thanks - a last whirligig in the wind? Keep us up to date with outcome. ChipMonk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40072 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ChipMonk wrote: Funny you should mention this but the Picasso version has been my avatar on all my personal accounts for about 10 years. Any links to lost causes in general and anthropomorphic global warming in particular are entirely coincidental! To PasTim - you/we all have put so much wasted time into this business already, if you could be bothered to do another copy paste (just like the BBC) and send that to the Trust then you should do so. Probably achieve no more than any of us so far but a nice parting shot. I'll have a go, with no expectation of success. LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
garym wrote: Son Volt Que? LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: Que? sorry, bad sense of humor: Uncle Tupelo (band) turned into two bands (1) Wilco and (2) Son Volt *Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet) *Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.9 Squeezelite *Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone6 iPadAir2 (iPeng8 Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop *Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
garym wrote: sorry, bad sense of humor: Uncle Tupelo (band) turned into two bands (1) Wilco and (2) Son Volt Ta - I've never heard of any of them, being the ignoramus that I am. So for me, wilco is more Biggles than band :) LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ChipMonk wrote: Thanks - a last whirligig in the wind? Keep us up to date with outcome. Wilco. LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: Wilco. Son Volt *Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet) *Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.9 Squeezelite *Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone6 iPadAir2 (iPeng8 Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop *Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
garym wrote: Tilting at windmills? http://tinyurl.com/qg55u6m :) LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: Ta - I've never heard of any of them, being the ignoramus that I am. So for me, wilco is more Biggles than band :) Thousands of Jeff Tweedy fans are picking themselves off the floor. ;) (I'm more of a Jay Farrar (Son Volt) fan myself.) *Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet) *Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.9 Squeezelite *Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone6 iPadAir2 (iPeng8 Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop *Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
garym wrote: Thousands of Jeff Tweedy fans are picking themselves off the floor. ;) Who? (I'm more of a Jay Farrar (Son Volt) fan myself.) Who? Seriously - no idea who either of them are. It takes all sorts :D LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ChipMonk wrote: The BBC Love Blog (bottom of my original post shortcut) was closed after 4 comments! The above discussion by and about castalla relate to the good old Audio Factory Blog - which is currently in zombie mode i.e. living but dead! My second comment on the AF blog has now been excised. Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
castalla wrote: My second comment on the AF blog has now been excised. You are clearly a very naughty boy :) LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
I wonder what the size of the listen-again audience is now? Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ChipMonk wrote: Oh Dear - blogging the above on the BBC Blog and you've broken the BBC House Rules again! That's you on the Naughty Step for 20 minutes! You're just not getting into the swing of this Luvvy Love Thing at all are you? Must have ruffled the blogger's ego, I fear. Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ftlight wrote: Who posted comment #4 there, I wonder? No response, of course. The bog is already closed after 4 comments! A record? Not surprising really, as the whole concept is utter 'marketing' naffness of the first order. Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
castalla wrote: The bog is already closed after 4 comments! A record? Not surprising really, as the whole concept is utter 'marketing' naffness of the first order. Oh Dear - blogging the above on the BBC Blog and you've broken the BBC House Rules again! That's you on the Naughty Step for 20 minutes! You're just not getting into the swing of this Luvvy Love Thing at all are you? ChipMonk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40072 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: I don't even any space for comments. Did they delete the whole lot or am I looking in the wrong place? The BBC Love Blog (bottom of my original post shortcut) was closed after 4 comments! The above discussion by and about castalla relate to the good old Audio Factory Blog - which is currently in zombie mode i.e. living but dead! ChipMonk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40072 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
castalla wrote: Must have ruffled the blogger's ego, I fear. I don't even any space for comments. Did they delete the whole lot or am I looking in the wrong place? LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
And now, despite all, they want us to love them! http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/55hRWmLmhW6j71S7nwzPbRt/what-is-love ChipMonk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40072 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ChipMonk wrote: And now, despite all, they want us to love them! http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/55hRWmLmhW6j71S7nwzPbRt/what-is-love Who posted comment #4 there, I wonder? No response, of course. ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ftlight wrote: Interesting technical summary, with diagrams, of the Audio Factory fiasco: http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/AudioFactory/AudioFactory.html Interesting reading indeed. How did he get the access to the info I wonder? Not too much light thrown on the reach out to manufacturers issue though. *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
d6jg wrote: Interesting reading indeed. How did he get the access to the info I wonder? Not too much light thrown on the reach out to manufacturers issue though. Here's the full thread at the uk.rec.audio newsgroup: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.rec.audio/RKW3-nw6jbg ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
utgg wrote: A useless thought for late on an Easter Saturday. Given how proud the BBC are of providing 320kbps HLS streams for all 57 BBC radio stations, I wonder how many listener-seconds there have been, or ever will be, of the HLS 320kpbs BBC Radio nan Gaidheal stream, for example. I probably show up quite high in the statistics for the few seconds that I've played the stream just to check that it works. I may well now be the biggest ever listener having now had that channel playing for the time it has taken me to type this message. Ah, the bagpipes...I've clicked on it a couple of times out of curiosity :) LMS Version: 7.9 TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3 - WHS 2011 2x Touch, 3x SB3 bonze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6150 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
d6jg wrote: It is indeed intriguing. Presumably the TuneIn 320 Kbps streams are international i.e. no live sport? A useless thought for late on an Easter Saturday. Given how proud the BBC are of providing 320kbps HLS streams for all 57 BBC radio stations, I wonder how many listener-seconds there have been, or ever will be, of the HLS 320kpbs BBC Radio nan Gaidheal stream, for example. I probably show up quite high in the statistics for the few seconds that I've played the stream just to check that it works. I may well now be the biggest ever listener having now had that channel playing for the time it has taken me to type this message. Ah, the bagpipes... utgg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40900 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
It is indeed intriguing. Presumably the TuneIn 320 Kbps streams are international i.e. no live sport? *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
I don't think any manufacturer has a direct connection to the Beeb, it's all via aggregators - TuneIn, vTuner etc. I imagine but cannot be sure that the manufacturer buys a licence to use the aggregators stream per device and the aggregators in turn buy a licence from the Beeb. Michael will probably be able to throw my light on the commerciality of the arrangement in view of the official Logitech applets for Touch Radio. Triode's plugin is probably a bit unusual in this regard in that it talks direct to the BBC servers via the XML feeds that they have been publicising since at least 2008. *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
utgg wrote: Does anyone know. Nabisco - where are you - do you know? Intriguing! Perhaps Nabisco has been warned off by David Cameron in a secretly coded message. Two Shredded Wheat (posts?) OK, three Shredded Wheat - too much. i.e. get out of the kitchen. Unless, Hell, you're tough enough for three. Come on Nabisco! But seriously, utgg you make a very interesting point. ChipMonk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40072 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
The problem we face with the BBC and other internet streamers (I've had the same problems with other radio stations changing the way they stream as well) is that we networked music player users (squeezeboxes, sonos, etc.) are a tiny, tiny percentage of the audience using streams. The numbers of listeners using only PC/Mac or smart phones/tablets for streaming make us almost irrelevant. It's like there are 200,000 residents in a town, the town makes some major changes to the way the roads work, and 3 very vocal residents complain about the change at every town meeting (while the other 199,997 residents either didn't notice the change or like the change). I'm not happy about this of course, but I'm afraid it describes our situation. *Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet) *Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.8 Squeezelite *Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone6 iPadAir2 (iPeng8 Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop *Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
garym wrote: The numbers of listeners using only PC/Mac or smart phones/tablets for streaming make us almost irrelevant. I agree, and that's pretty much what the BBC assumed at the offset. We're a small minority of (predominantly) grumpy old codgers, hanging on to a largely lost idea of sitting together, listening to the wireless. A tiny minority who could, and would, be ignored. Perhaps the only thing they underestimated was the degree and intensity of our grumpiness! I still think that this is/was a cause worth fighting for but, with a mere 322 signatures on the ePetition, we're clearly never going to summon the fire-power to influence a supposedly cash-strapped organisation, especially one which has just ignored a petition of more than one million signatures, aided and abetted with numerous celebrities and a tank on the lawn at Broadcasting House, all trying and failing to prevent Auntie from killing a prize cash cow. ChipMonk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40072 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
I think the bracketed predominantly is probably unnecessary (unfortunately). *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
Despite the lack of a satisfactory resolution we did at least get the BBC to engage in considerable detail on their blog, so that what they did is recorded. ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
d6jg wrote: It's pretty clear that Andrew Scott doesn't really know what's going on. He claims all his statements are made in good faith but so many are just plain wrong! We've turned off RTMP. Errr. No you haven't! Listen Again is available via HLS/AAC at 320kbps. Errr. Try 128kbps. He and the BBC have no idea just how many users they have affected. Someone, and I doubt it's Scott, didn't understand what was being proposed nor what they were signing. There are people saying the Pure radios aren't actually working properly so it could just be us that have access to live UK content at 320kbps. It's still a success though!!! I'm still very puzzled about the 320kbps HLS stream situation. Right back in the second week in February, various people found Live stream HLS urls by network monitoring the iPlayer app on iThings and Android. But these urls only listed 128kbps maximum streams - and they still do. I'm pretty sure therefore that iThings and Android things only did 128kbps Live streams then, and last time I looked on android that was still the case. Then there was this post by 'nabisco' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?64035-nabisco): '#2232' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?53229-Announce-BBCiPlayer-Plugin-(UK-only)p=806849viewfull=1#post806849) that told us the magic /uk/sbr_high/ urls that give the 320kbps live streams. This post was the origin of these urls getting made public, AFAIKT. This sounds like insider information to me. Who is nabisco? He just popped up for that one day to give us this valuable information! So what devices were using these urls? Not iThings or Android! It seems it is just us using them - then also picked up by minimserver. All very mysterious. The question is, are 320kbps Listen Again streams similarly hidden now? Does anyone know. Nabisco - where are you - do you know? utgg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40900 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
utgg wrote: I'm still very puzzled about the 320kbps HLS stream situation. Right back in the second week in February, various people found Live stream HLS urls by network monitoring the iPlayer app on iThings and Android. But these urls only listed 128kbps maximum streams - and they still do. I'm pretty sure therefore that iThings and Android things only did 128kbps Live streams then, and last time I looked on android that was still the case. Then there was this post by 'nabisco' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?64035-nabisco): '#2232' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?53229-Announce-BBCiPlayer-Plugin-(UK-only)p=806849viewfull=1#post806849) that told us the magic /uk/sbr_high/ urls that give the 320kbps live streams. This post was the origin of these urls getting made public, AFAIKT. This sounds like insider information to me. Who is nabisco? He just popped up for that one day to give us this valuable information! So what devices were using these urls? Not iThings or Android! It seems it is just us using them - then also picked up by minimserver. All very mysterious. The question is, are 320kbps Listen Again streams similarly hidden now? Does anyone know. Nabisco - where are you - do you know? I can listen to the 320 k HLS streams on the iPad here via Tune In by going to More InformationChoose Stream320 k HLS (2 listed for some reason). Otherwise it defaults to the 128 k HLS stream which is delayed slightly compared to the 320 k version. Regards, Nick Nick_G's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38427 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
Nick_G wrote: I can listen to the 320 k HLS streams on the iPad here via Tune In by going to More InformationChoose Stream320 k HLS (2 listed for some reason). Otherwise it defaults to the 128 k HLS stream which is delayed slightly compared to the 320 k version. Regards, Nick Interesting - the android TuneIn app also offers the 2 320kbps HLS options, plus all the other bitrates in HLS, and the 320kbps aac shoutcast radio 3 stream (which it declares as only 83% reliable...). So the BBC iPlayer apps only provide 128kbps, but 3rd party apps give the higher bit rates. The 2x 320kbps I presume are the two different CDNs, /ak/ and /llnw/ URLs. The stupid thing here is that the official apps use the 'mediaselector' interface, which automatically chooses and switches about between the two CDNs to balance the load - but the mediaselector doesn't appear to ever list the high bitrate streams. Tunein are using the direct URL to the high bitrate streams, so leave it up to you to choose the CDN - not ideal for load balancing or convenience. I wonder if Tunein only know about and are providing the high bitrate hls streams because of the 'reveal' that happened on this forum on 13th Feb? utgg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40900 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
castalla wrote: Pessimistically, I think there's very little which can be done. People have tried a wide range of options - none of which seem to have had any effect given the Audio Factory's response has been to just tough it out. Goodness knows how may listeners they've actually lost - the i-thingy crowd probably haven't even noticed any changes as their listening experience is probably limited to less than 7 seconds before they move off to some other media event of zero-content and importance! Call me an elitist snob if you like, but the serial dumbing down of broadcast media into smaller and smaller impact chunks makes me fume. In one sense, the provision of on-demand, listen again material, is becoming superfluous as everything broadcast is repetively rebroadcast over any 24 hour cycle as a live stream - the news channels are specific offenders when a news item (which they call a 'story') is rebroadcast every 15 minutes - drives me nuts! Would the manufacturers who were caught unawares by these sudden changes (and there have been quite a few) be able to take some form of legal action for potential loss of sales? After all, I'm willing to bet that many devices were bought to listen to the BBC in high quality or to use the catch-up services. If so, then that might magically twist the BBC's arm. Regards, Nick Nick_G's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38427 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ChipMonk wrote: There is also a great deal of ongoing discussion with manufacturers to help them take advantage of the new technology. It is definitely very important for us to help support the industry through these changes, and the team are very focused on that activity. Once again, I apologise for the inconvenience that these changes have caused. Best wishes James So much effort on behalf of the BBC and manufacturers that not one has implemented any changes. Pure already had the 'code' - SB got there only through the sterling efforts of certain people. Not an impressive response by the BBC or the manufacturers. Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
I suspect they have been sold a pup by the 3rd party providers, have signed a whopping great contract with them and are now caught with their bloomers round their ankles with nowhere to go. The fact that James mentions the plans to implement a UK only version of the MP3 fallback streams came about only as a result of our protestations shows that there were many things they just failed to consider. *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
d6jg wrote: I suspect they have been sold a pup by the 3rd party providers, have signed a whopping great contract with them and are now caught with their bloomers round their ankles with nowhere to go. The fact that James mentions the plans to implement a UK only version of the MP3 fallback streams came about only as a result of our protestations shows that there were many things they just failed to consider. It's sad that this has really descended into a such a mess. It has to stand alongside all those other 'failed' expensive solutions provided by outside agencies to government departments. Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
In the early days of this sad affair, I attempted to directly contact all members of the BBC senior management with some remit in this area, as well as politicians, BBC complaints departments and feedback programmes, media etc. My initial communication with Helen Boaden (BBC Director of Radio) was very rapidly passed on to Andrew Scott, who replied immediately. Andrew's various replies to me were very much in the manner which became familiar when he later started appearing on the BBC blog posts, despite my urging that his team should take a more cooperative and conciliatory stance vis a vis bloggers who, at that stage, were mainly trying to help. Incidentally, Andrew's first email to me also inadvertently had Ms Boaden's forwarding message attached (17th Feb.) and it was pretty clear that she was not at all happy about what was starting to show up and wanted swift action, although I suspect she thought that an apology would be enough! I did not directly hear from any other BBC manager until today, when I received a reply from James Purnell, former New Labour minister now Director, BBC Strategy and Digital. For information and comment, I copy his reply in full below since very few BBC management voices have been heard to date. It has a very familiar ring to it and, as usual, emphasis is on the plan rather than the actual implementation and outcomes, but we're used to that: Thank you for contacting me and I apologise for the inconvenience that these changes have caused you. I am aware of the Audio Factory project, and the impact this has had on Internet radios and some other devices. The scope of the project was clearly much broader than these devices, and delivered significant improvements in efficiency and simplicity, as well as improvements in quality to the vast majority of our radio listeners, but I understand that will be of little consolation to you. The team defined a set of technologies that provide the right balance of improvements and compatibility for these devices. I believe that the team did make appropriate decisions on the technology solutions, given the cost constraints within which we need to operate. Certainly there was not an option of continuing with the previous technologies and the new system provides basic compatibility for as many devices as possible with enhanced services for more capable devices. It is never easy when we have to change the services which people have become used to. It is also clear that whilst the team did have a plan to try to minimise the impact on users, that did not work as intended. The plan involved communicating with manufacturers and other industry partners far enough in advance of the changes to allow the necessary modifications to be made. That early communication did provide some useful input which allowed the team to refine their plan, but did not work effectively in terms of minimising the impact on all our users, and I know that the team are reviewing why. They are also considering how they could have communicated these changes to our audience in advance. I know that Helen Boaden and Ralph Rivera are planning to review this. I know that there has been extensive discussion on our Internet Blog about this issue. This dialogue has actually resulted in some significant changes in what the team are delivering, including adding new UK only version of the backward compatible streams. There is also a great deal of ongoing discussion with manufacturers to help them take advantage of the new technology. It is definitely very important for us to help support the industry through these changes, and the team are very focused on that activity. Once again, I apologise for the inconvenience that these changes have caused. Best wishes James ChipMonk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40072 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
It's pretty clear that Andrew Scott doesn't really know what's going on. He claims all his statements are made in good faith but so many are just plain wrong! We've turned off RTMP. Errr. No you haven't! Listen Again is available via HLS/AAC at 320kbps. Errr. Try 128kbps. He and the BBC have no idea just how many users they have affected. Someone, and I doubt it's Scott, didn't understand what was being proposed nor what they were signing. There are people saying the Pure radios aren't actually working properly so it could just be us that have access to live UK content at 320kbps. It's still a success though!!! *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
d6jg wrote: It's pretty clear that Andrew Scott doesn't really know what's going on. He claims all his statements are made in good faith but so many are just plain wrong! We've turned off RTMP. Errr. No you haven't! Listen Again is available via HLS/AAC at 320kbps. Errr. Try 128kbps. He and the BBC have no idea just how many users they have affected. Someone, and I doubt it's Scott, didn't understand what was being proposed nor what they were signing. There are people saying the Pure radios aren't actually working properly so it could just be us that have access to live UK content at 320kbps. It's still a success though!!! I've got a Pure which works ... but it's a clunky retro interface, and there's no way to control it via the app which just streams to the radio and stops when the app is closed - useless really. Seems there's no way to penetrate the wall of nonsense the BBC have constructed around this fiasco. Isn't there anybody here who knows Tony up-close and personal, because unless somebody actually takes control of this and intervenes, then the obfuscation looks like it'll just go on and on. Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
i am surprised Beeb bashing media such as the Daily Mail aren't interested. Perhaps we could ask Jeremy Clarkson to get involved. He's not that busy so I am told. *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
d6jg wrote: i am surprised Beeb bashing media such as the Daily Mail aren't interested. Perhaps we could ask Jeremy Clarkson to get involved. He's not that busy so I am told. Not a good idea, in my book. The problem is that those in positions of power who could possibly insist on a solution most likely don't understand the technical issues, and probably don't realise how many listeners are affected. Of course, people wingeing on the blog that the Five Live jingles are in mono, or that they can't get Tony Blackburn at 320 bps doesn't help either! Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
Indeed. I was joking. You are spot on concerning the lack of understanding about the technical issues. When I wrote to my MP I found it very difficult to adequately explain the issue in layman terms. She hasn't responded. The chatter on the blog is dying down which is I suppose inevitable. There is little commercial motivation for any of the manufacturers to take issue with the BBC - they are just a small part of the industry and why would any manufacturer volunteer to spend money for zero return. The aggregators may be more peed off but presumably they pay a fee to the BBC to get the streams which they on sell to the manufacturers. Easy to sweeten their pill. I don't think we should let things lie but unsure what further action apart from lobbying is actually available to us. *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PS Tony Blackburn should always be at 320 bps anyway :) *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
d6jg wrote: Indeed. I was joking. You are spot on concerning the lack of understanding about the technical issues. When I wrote to my MP I found it very difficult to adequately explain the issue in layman terms. She hasn't responded. The chatter on the blog is dying down which is I suppose inevitable. There is little commercial motivation for any of the manufacturers to take issue with the BBC - they are just a small part of the industry and why would any manufacturer volunteer to spend money for zero return. The aggregators may be more peed off but presumably they pay a fee to the BBC to get the streams which they on sell to the manufacturers. Easy to sweeten their pill. I don't think we should let things lie but unsure what further action apart from lobbying is actually available to us. Pessimistically, I think there's very little which can be done. People have tried a wide range of options - none of which seem to have had any effect given the Audio Factory's response has been to just tough it out. Goodness knows how may listeners they've actually lost - the i-thingy crowd probably haven't even noticed any changes as their listening experience is probably limited to less than 7 seconds before they move off to some other media event of zero-content and importance! Call me an elitist snob if you like, but the serial dumbing down of broadcast media into smaller and smaller impact chunks makes me fume. In one sense, the provision of on-demand, listen again material, is becoming superfluous as everything broadcast is repetively rebroadcast over any 24 hour cycle as a live stream - the news channels are specific offenders when a news item (which they call a 'story') is rebroadcast every 15 minutes - drives me nuts! Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker Squeeze2upnp - Sonos Play1 Vistron internet radio (Reciva) Pure One Flow castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
The latest response to my complaints is as below. The only new item I can see is that they do play some form of web page about the topic. The response to the LA RTMP question implies that several manufacturers implemented LA without 'permission'. Do we think that's really true? Are others trying to get the complaint to the next stage? I've asked the BBC several times without success thus far. Do I try to carry on or not? -Thank you for contacting the BBC iPlayer support team. I understand youre unhappy with changes made for Internet Radio streams and need proper explanation. As you have gone through all the blogs relating to the changes, Andrew Scott, General Scott has provided more explanation below: I apologise for the inconvenience that this has caused you. I can assure you that we are concerned about the effect on the users of Internet Radios, which is why we setup a team who have been working with manufacturers and aggregators over the last 14 months to prepare for these changes. We did communicate the changes to manufacturers and aggregators 14 months ago, and our expectation was that the information would then get through to their users. That has clearly not been the case and we have apologised for that. There are a number of ways that we would do things differently in hindsight, including more on-air announcements that changes were happening so that users could find out more online.We posted a blog detailing the changes to the WMA on demands in September which triggered more engagement from manufacturers. The inclusion of the SHOUTcast/MP3 live streams was specifically to address the Internet Radio users whose devices were not capable of consuming the HLS/AAC live streams. The vast majority of online radio listening is live, so we believe that this was the priority service to prolong the useful life of those devices. The RTMP streams were not syndicated (made available to third parties). We did not support anyone using those except our own applications. The fact that people were using them is because they had been reverse engineered which is against the terms under which we provide our streams and metadata. The fact that they were switched off without notice was simply because we did not expect anyone to be using them. The complex nature of the systems which take our metadata and streams and make them available to Internet Radios means we don't have control of the end user experience in the way that we do for devices like iPlayer Radio. This has resulted in more disruption for audiences than necessary because some devices weren't switched across to the new streams even when they would have been able to use them. We are planning a permanent page (not a blog page) to provide more information about these changes. I hope this explanation provide the information you are looking for. Once again thank you for contacting BBC iPlayer. Kind regards Usha Devi Peri BBC Complaints www.bbc.co.uk/complaints - LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: The RTMP streams were not syndicated (made available to third parties). We did not support anyone using those except our own applications. The fact that people were using them is because they had been reverse engineered which is against the terms under which we provide our streams and metadata. The fact that they were switched off without notice was simply because we did not expect anyone to be using them. The RTMP programs were in the XML feed which I interpret to mean they were syndicated. They were only removed from the XML feed this year. When the RTMP programs were first in the XML feed, Flash was proprietary and only by reverse engineering Flash could RTMP be played. However shortly after the RTMP program in the XML feed became available, Adobe published the RTMP protocol and so implementation of Flash could be written which were not reverse engineered. To play an RTMP feed, a number of additional BBC specific parameters are needed. So although BBC offered the RTMP programs in the XML feeds, the BBC may be claiming only BBC had right to use the BBC specific parameters necessary to play the programs but it could be argued that the only way to play the offered syndicated programs was to use the additional parameters. This may have resulted in plugin appearing to be a BBC player in BBC usage stats. The BBCiPlayer plugin did not save or download the programs and was not commercial, so it could be said the plugin complied with the spirit of BBC restrictions. There is little point in arguing these issues with BBC any further as it is best to keep relationship amicable. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
I read that as We cocked up but we are not going to do anything about it I used to work for a high street bank that wasn't Barclays. For a while I worked in a dept that handled area based complaints. One of our template replies was jokingly referred to the FOTB letter. We are receiving the BBC equivalent. I do think it is worth persevering as there have been changes in stance - albeit slight - since the complaints started. This it can't be done attitude from Andrew Scott is of course absolutely untrue. It is just a question of money and appetite to spend it. We should however be careful when talking about the licence fee because I think that only now covers TV and that radio is effectively paid for in other ways. I haven't had any response to my complaint to my MP. I will chase it up. *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
bpa wrote: Did they play WMA or RTMP versions ? The syndicated XML feed initially had WMA and RealAudio and then RealAudio was replaced by RTMP aka Flash Both stopped on March 9th. As I understand it (not a lot) WMA was stopped earlier (but maybe only the live, not LA?), and RTMP on March 9th. That's all I know. I don't have any other proof - both Internet Radio manuals are silent on the topic. LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: Both stopped on March 9th. As I understand it (not a lot) WMA was stopped earlier (but maybe only the live, not LA?), and RTMP on March 9th. That's all I know. I don't have any other proof - both Internet Radio manuals are silent on the topic. I expect it was WMA. WMA LA stayed around for a good while after WMA live stopped. Very few system played Flash because of the need to have custom Flash parameters per station (to match the stations SWF player) - it wasn't a general purpose audio format. bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: So Marantz, Musical Fidelity and many others also did this without the BBC knowing. Is that realistic? Did they play WMA or RTMP versions ? The syndicated XML feed initially had WMA and RealAudio and then RealAudio was replaced by RTMP aka Flash bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: So Marantz, Musical Fidelity and many others also did this without the BBC knowing. Is that realistic? Interesting from 2008 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/radiolabs/2008/09/xml_feeds_for_listen_again_con.shtml Note the well known (to us) name of one of the comment posters. The documentation referred to has moved to https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=111sRKv1WO78E9Mf2Km91JNCzfbmfU0QApsZyvnRYFmU Seems to me that the BBC actively promoted the XML feed at least until 2012. *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
bpa wrote: The RTMP programs were in the XML feed which I interpret to mean they were syndicated. They were only removed from the XML feed this year. When the RTMP programs were first in the XML feed, Flash was proprietary and only by reverse engineering Flash could RTMP be played. However shortly after the RTMP program in the XML feed became available, Adobe published the RTMP protocol and so implementation of Flash could be written which were not reverse engineered. To play an RTMP feed, a number of additional BBC specific parameters are needed. So although BBC offered the RTMP programs in the XML feeds, the BBC may be claiming only BBC had right to use the BBC specific parameters necessary to play the programs but it could be argued that the only way to play the offered syndicated programs was to use the additional parameters. This may have resulted in plugin appearing to be a BBC player in BBC usage stats. The BBCiPlayer plugin did not save or download the programs and was not commercial, so it could be said the plugin complied with the spirit of BBC restrictions. There is little point in arguing these issues with BBC any further as it is best to keep relationship amicable. So Marantz, Musical Fidelity and many others also did this without the BBC knowing. Is that realistic? LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
bpa wrote: I expect it was WMA. WMA LA stayed around for a good while after WMA live stopped. Very few non PC system played Flash because of the need to have custom Flash parameters per station (to match the stations SWF player) - it wasn't a general purpose audio format. It's interesting to recap on how we got to where we were, and we shouldn't overlook the vital importance of the RTPM.pm file next to which HLS.plm now sits in Triode's BBCiPlayer plugin. majones's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13029 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
d6jg wrote: Interesting from 2008 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/radiolabs/2008/09/xml_feeds_for_listen_again_con.shtml Note the well known (to us) name of one of the comment posters. The documentation referred to has moved to https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=111sRKv1WO78E9Mf2Km91JNCzfbmfU0QApsZyvnRYFmU Seems to me that the BBC actively promoted the XML feed at least until 2012. Thanks for that! The later document lists 'sportsextra.xml'. I'd tried guessing that name to add it to the menu.opml in the BBCiPlayer plugin, as it is missing there... utgg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40900 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
d6jg wrote: Does it work? Yes, it does. Sports Extra is available via bpa's iPlayerExtras, but I'd only recently noticed it had been missing in Triode's Listen Again/On Demand listings. utgg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40900 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
utgg wrote: Yes, it does. Sports Extra is available via bpa's iPlayerExtras, but I'd only recently noticed it had been missing in Triode's Listen Again/On Demand listings. Yea *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
bpa wrote: I expect it was WMA. WMA LA stayed around for a good while after WMA live stopped. Very few non PC system played Flash because of the need to have custom Flash parameters per station (to match the stations SWF player) - it wasn't a general purpose audio format.OK - thanks. LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
utgg wrote: Thanks for that! The later document lists 'sportsextra.xml'. I'd tried guessing that name to add it to the menu.opml in the BBCiPlayer plugin, as it is missing there... Does it work? *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: The latest response to my complaints is as below. -We did communicate the changes to manufacturers and aggregators 14 months ago, and our expectation was that the information would then get through to their users. - Okay, hold the phone. I'm going to go back to the BBC blog and see if Andrew Scott said this also in his latest reply round, because there's a slight flaw in this process. I go to a shop, either physical or online. I buy a wifi radio from any of the major manufacturers. I take it home and use it. BBC comes along a year later and passes information to the manufacturer, counting on the manufacturer to get through to the users. EXCEPT: the manufacturer has no idea who I am. They aren't told the names and contact information of people who buy their merchandise, unless (possibly) the consumer purchases it directly from the manufacturer's online shop. How are they supposed to track down their userbase? They don't know. And likely as not, the average user doesn't think to register with the manufacturer's website, or whatever, because most of us are of an age where we took something home and it worked and that was the end of it. There was no manufacturer-consumer interaction. shoshani's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64193 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
Andrew Scott has posted again. Full of apologies. Lots of apologies. Even more apologies but STILL maintaining they are talking to manufacturers but if you read all of his comments very carefully his stance is shifting towards talking to manufacturers about supporting MP3 rather than HLS/AAC. He appears to be under some pressure (quelle surprise) but unable to accept that there has been a cockup let alone fully grasp the enormity of the it. *Vortexbox LMS 7.8 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* - iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 - Onkyo TS606 connected Digitally - Celestion Ditton F20s - and connected Analogue for Zone 2 - Sony TA FE 320 - Sennheiser RS 130 *Office* - SB3 - Sony TA FE320 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* - SB Boom *Kitchen* - UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch - Topping TP21 - AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) - Topping TP20 - Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
PasTim wrote: Someone else has commented about this on the bbc blog today, so the issue has got out into the open anyway. Yes, I noticed that this morning. It'll probably have as little effect as everything else which is written in the BBC blog. I guess we're all getting a bit frustrated and edgy over this whole business. Pax. ChipMonk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40072 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
chipmonk wrote: yes, i noticed that this morning. It'll probably have as little effect as everything else which is written in the bbc blog. I guess we're all getting a bit frustrated and edgy over this whole business. Pax. Indeed :) LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] BBC online radio fiasco - comments, news, moans, campaigns
ChipMonk wrote: I'm sorry but I really don't understand what you are banging on about. You requested advice and, in good faith, we gave it - with reasons. What you do with that advice is your business. Some of us have simply said that we think that, at this stage in our very asymmetrical negotiations with the BBC, we may have more to lose than to gain by alerting the BBC to the RTMP streams. As for hypocrisy - where on earth does that come into it? The BBC is withholding information which would allow its paying audience to listen to its output - whilst telling everyone what a splendid job it's doing. Their withholding of information is detrimental to listeners. We are simply trying to get back the service we have paid for - well those of us in the UK anyway. Firstly, we don't know the validity of the RTMP stream information and secondly, any blagging on our part long lines of Hey Auntie, we know something about RTMP which you don't can merely result in further degradation of our services. Some of us would regard that as counter-productive. Therefore, I'm not sure what good your somewhat holier than thou approach would achieve but, no doubt, you'll do as your conscience, or ego, dictates. You are not alone in feeling a little delicate about all this - many of us have wasted far too much of our time on it over the past six weeks. I'd much rather be doing something else but, perhaps like you, I believe this is a battle worth fighting, especially on behalf of those less technically able than ourselves. We have precious little leverage with the BBC so shouldn't squander what little we have - or get sidetracked with internal squabbles. Rant Over! Someone else has commented about this on the bbc blog today, so the issue has got out into the open anyway. LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp to MF M1 CLiC (to MF amp ESLs) Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Minimserver (server) upplay (control point) to same renderers to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to speakers/phones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop with firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103311 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
