[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 12:39 AM, Fidex Marketing wrote: ... OK, well I accept your correction, it sounds logical. The incentive program and ponzis are things I have never tried very hard to learn about. You have told me who does NOT benefit from the incentive program. It would be interesting to know who DOES benefit, for example what is the largest amount of gold earned through the referral program by a single account? If I knew that, I wouldn't tell, but suffice it to say that the referral incentive program is good enough, especially for large merchants who plan to stay around a while, that I'm shocked it's not more well-known. Some of the math was done in front of the crowd at the recent conference, IIRC. The question to ask yourself is do I trust Jim Ray or someone else regarding the incentive thing? I think you should trust me, of course, but it's likely that someone else here will do the math, so you can judge for yourself who is being honest and who probably isn't. Also I much appreciate your personal input JMR on this list. Thanks, but that may be a minority view. But that was not really the point I was making. You brought up the incentive program as an example of e-gold's efforts at marketing. And I said, well even if you have the greatest incentive program in the world, You said THAT?? (It IS, of course, so I'm glad you now agree!) it is pretty lousy marketing to have *just* an incentive program (and no I haven't forgotten the car stickers either) Napster didn't have even THAT, and look how _IT_ grew! I think we can do just as well, if we're smart about explaining the benefits of e-gold, and if you do it right YOU should benefit! You (like many folks) seem to think that e-gold Ltd. might be better off if they had spent lots of money on ads. I disagree, I think it's good to concentrate resources on improving e-gold (and there are, of course, other expenses...). Marketing, like reputation and dispute resolution and arbitration and dozens of other things people may wish e-gold did, will not make the best base money the planet has ever seen, and that's what e-gold is doing, and doing right. e-gold is a _FAR_ better thing than Napster, but some good things are *subtle*. The benefits of free music are easy to explain. Few people have ever even thought about money in the way I need them to, so it's not easy (absent a disaster like Argentina's) to make them suddenly think that way now. I think the best marketing is the greatness of e-gold, once it's explained properly (and used for the right things!). Here's an example, http://www.radsfans.net/ Frankly, I think that e-gold could have saved Napster (and, of course, it could have given them an actual income). e-gold TipJars like Radsfans' are FAR easier to do than tipjars were when I contacted Napster. They didn't have the time to try e-gold then, I'm told. Evolution in action. Now there's Limewire, Morpheus, Gnutella, etc. and I WILL finally get through to one (and then all) of those. With http://www.fastsci.com and http://www.clicktwocents.com I think that music tipjars will really take off soon. Norse rocks! The Radiators are only the first conquest. Any band that gives away the right to tape shows (like the Grateful Dead did) now has a HUGE, _WORLDWIDE_ potential income source!!! Fans will tend to tip more than a record company would have paid any band, if behavior I've seen so far holds. Bands will notice this and respond accordingly. University students, once they discover that e-gold is also a more efficient way to do large transfers (Mom, please send lots of money!) will drive the adoption, IMO. The other thing is that confidence in the system is probably the biggest marketing hurdle of all, yet nobody from e-gold takes the time to answer questions on the subject ... ... I can't speak on some subjects, as you know. Others who can and do have recently spoken directly with a variety of people. I prefer not to characterize what others have said, though. Views and feedback, on this list or elsewhere, sometimes need to be taken with a grain of salt. I've always tried to be honest (and I note that your reply to the list was to private email...) when I'm in disagreement with someone, about my own motivations. Its safe to assume others have motivations as well. Sometimes, I have strong reasons to doubt that the ideas promulgated by others are motivated by honesty (instead of, say, jealousy?). Regarding confidence, I tend to trust individuals, not groups. I will give a hypothetical example of a high-reputation individual vs a group now (since I've believed this for over a decade and it's now fun to say 'I told you so!!'). If Warren Buffett (one of my heroes) says X and (pick any big five accounting firm) says Y, Jim Ray only believes X. Bottom line: I trust Doug Jackson and the team behind e-gold for various reasons to keep doing the right thing out of their own self-interest. I have felt this way since
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
JMR, for example what is the largest amount of gold earned through the referral program by a single account? If I knew that, I wouldn't tell, I can't imagine why not, I would really think it was in your interests to promote it and show people how much money they can earn. action. Now there's Limewire, Morpheus, Gnutella, etc. and I WILL finally get through to one (and then all) of those. Fantastic! So you are telling me that there is somebody from e-gold (you) who is actively trying to reach new users. I am very pleased to hear that. That is the kind of thing I was asking for. Regarding confidence, I tend to trust individuals, not groups. I will give a hypothetical example of a high-reputation individual vs a group now (since I've believed this for over a decade and it's now fun to say 'I told you so!!'). If Warren Buffett (one of my heroes) says X and (pick any big five accounting firm) says Y, Jim Ray only believes X. Bottom line: I trust Doug Jackson and the team behind e-gold for various reasons to keep doing the right thing out of their own self-interest. Jim, I am pretty much the same. But if I go to try to explain e-gold to a new client in Russia, just how far do you think I am going to get trying to claim it must be legit and above board because some guy called Jim in Florida trusts another guy called Doug Jackson to act out of self-interest? Thanks for your time anyway, I think I've gone on long enough. Regards Nick http://e-fidex.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 12:36 PM, Arik Schenkler wrote: James shalom, If I knew that, I wouldn't tell, Why? Hi Arik. Because it's the merchant's information, and therefore his/her property, and not mine to give away! All I can say is that the math works, and like many things in life, it's subtle. Of course, it favors big entities, but it also favors persistent early adopters IMO, at least getting rid of a few other fees IF you refer active users of e-gold, but it happens over time. Btw, where is the link to the referral program? http://www.e-gold.com/unsecure/incentive.htm has the info. An ancient link that also speaks to the relative cost of accepting e-gold is at: http://www.e-gold.com/unsecure/cc.htm Thanks. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 12:46 PM, Fidex Marketing wrote: ... If I knew that, I wouldn't tell, I can't imagine why not, I would really think it was in your interests to promote it and show people how much money they can earn. Well, I can only speak generally about the math, and actually it would depend on things other than the numbers we might expect. I'd rather refer ten active users who love e-gold than 100 people who try it and don't like or understand it, for example. action. Now there's Limewire, Morpheus, Gnutella, etc. and I WILL finally get through to one (and then all) of those. Fantastic! So you are telling me that there is somebody from e-gold (you) who is actively trying to reach new users. I am very pleased to hear that. That is the kind of thing I was asking for. No, it's not that way. and you've always had that anyway with me, but I'm somebody from OmniPay, not e-gold! I want use of e-gold to spread not just because I enjoy the stuff, but because it helps the company I work for to sell more e-gold. Of course (like the Napster guy, Mr. Fanning) I can't do this alone, and (because of the incentive program, among other reasons) I try to convince others to help. The way to create new users is to help spread the word with me. It takes time, but it will make money. Regarding confidence, I tend to trust individuals, not groups. ... I think we have both said all we need to say on this subject. e-gold has been pioneering this business since 1996. It will continue, IMO. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Adam wrote: Imagine someone wants to pay $100 for a product with e-gold. To purchase e-gold they have to pay anywhere from 18% (CC) to 5% premium, already they are at a loss of $5 to $18. Now they pay their merchant with e-gold. The merchant received e-gold, and knows that etc etc... -- JP wrote: The word for all this is ... insane :) Why? You'd just send the check to the bookseller. Adam: I just recalled a few pertinent quotes from Doug Jackson at the recent Gold Economy Conference in Atlanta: e-gold does not require any merchants to succeed. Bill payment ALONE could boost the Gold Economy to criticality. It's not about gold, it's about lowering the cost risk of accepting payment. On the bill payment issue, Doug mentioned some new innovations at Omnipay whereby you could pay all your bills online directly from your e-gold account. Why is bill pay so critical? To quote Doug again: More than 80% of household and a higher percentage of business expenditures entail a mailed check or EFT. In other words, online ordering and point-of-sale are just the tip of the iceberg. As for point of sale purchases, Doug Jackson advises: just use a credit card. To that I would add or a gold debit card. For online ordering, most merchants will accept credit cards, so just pay off the credit card using e-gold via Omnipay (or one of the other bill pay services coming up soon). Or if they accept checks, send gold to Omnipay and have them issue one. Basically, we're getting to the point where there's no need to have a checking account. Well, there is that small matter of paychecks in US dollars from traditional employers. Oh well. In time. -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
Basically, we're getting to the point where there's no need to have a checking account. Well, there is that small matter of paychecks in US dollars from traditional employers. Can an exchange provider offer traditional direct deposit? I know it would circumvent some protections -- but if you trusted the company ? That would also help forecast demand. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
Gold Mountain Exchange, Inc will be shut down for the next several days while the accountants go through the business. David Mueller Gold Mountain Exchange, Inc --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Cost of purchasing e-gold
Adam, purchasing e-gold is very cheap compared to purchasing gold bullion anywhere else. In fact making a USD - egold exchaneg is comparable to making most retail currency exchanges, say USD - Euros. Simply, the reason its so expensive is it is in demand. Supply, and demand. In contrast if you're selling your e-gold, for USD, of course no one's gonna give you a premium since everyone wants to GET RID OF usd's! JP Cost of Purchasing e-gold. Could someone please explain it to me why it is so expensive to purchase e-gold and it is so inexpensive to sell it?... --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
Adam, How much do you think the customer is actually paying (as a premium) when paying by CC or cheque ??? Don't you think that the price at which merchants sell their products DO include the cost for them to accept credit cards + charge backs + etc (or NSF cheques), etc In the long run, I don't think e-gold will get much cheaper than it already is (by the way, AnyGoldNow will gladly sell it to you at 4%, as published on our Fees page at http://www.anygoldnow.com/rate.html To the contrary, I believe that as soon as merchants will start to realize the full (very wide range of) benefits to them for accepting e-gold as payment (as opposed to other existing forms of payments), they'll gladly LOWER / DISCOUNT their prices for e-gold purchases ! That way, the consumer may actually SAVE by paying for goods with e-gold as opposed to CC or cheque Regards, Patrick, www.AnyGoldNow.com - Original Message - From: Adam Kurzawa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:59 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
The problem is that nobody is really in that business... e-gold are the ones who stand to benefit most from increased usage, and they seem to do precisely nothing in terms of trying to promote usage. ... Unless you count giving away half the spend fees, etcIOW, BS! JMR Well JMR, I appreciate that this program might cost e-gold quite a bit of money but frankly the referral fees we get are negligible and do not make any difference one way or the other to any promotion I do for e-gold. I promote e-gold to people because I like it. The only people I can imagine might get substantial benefit from the referral program are the operators of ponzis and HYIPs. Correct me if I am wrong, anybody... What I would much prefer (and happily pay a bit extra for) is to see e-gold providing a faster turnaround time on queries and having someone who is prepared to make public comments on non-technical issues. Take the question of audits for example: as you know, people frequently ask perfectly reasonable questions on this list and the only person who ever replies is you, and you always say you don't know, can't comment etc etc. But I think e-gold could really take off in a big way if you would only hire a full time PR person who goes out there actively targeting e-businesses and persuading them to accept e-gold. That need not even cost e-gold anything in the long run. That person's salary could easily be paid by using the existing progeny system. But they would obviously need some official authority to go out there and say they were representing e-gold, and probably some financial backing to get started. Best regards, Nick Fidex --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
The only people I can imagine might get substantial benefit from the referral program are the operators of ponzis and HYIPs. Correct me if I am wrong, anybody... I think it's an excellent program, and so do some other people that I know, who are NOT involved in HYIPs. The program takes a while to build up volume, but it doesn't go away -- it's compounding -- and this makes it a very good program. Sincerely, Craig (SnowDog) --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
The only people I can imagine might get substantial benefit from the referral program are the operators of ponzis and HYIPs. Correct me if I am wrong, anybody... I think it's an excellent program, and so do some other people that I know, who are NOT involved in HYIPs. The program takes a while to build up volume, but it doesn't go away -- it's compounding -- and this makes it a very good program. Interesting. Good for you, Craig. I was not criticising the program per se... but it should be part of a clear overall marketing strategy. You can't just stick an affiliate program out there and then expect it to grow by itself. Now if they hired someone full time to go out and recruit affiliates, would it not be tens or hundreds of times more effective? Regards Nick Fidex --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
Now, if it was somehow possible to move the cost e-gold from the buyer to the seller, then perchaps e-gold would have a chance. Untill that happens I see e-gold confined to a niche markets. The way it is right now, it will takie off for mass payments. Kind regards, Adam You are right, Adam. And I'm pretty sure most online retailers would willingly give a 5% or 10% discount to people paying e-gold instead of credit card, if only there was enough volume to make it worth their while adapting systems, shopping carts etc. It's a classic case of the whole e-gold system needing more promotion, but I think I've had my say on that today :) Nick Fidex --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Adam, snip So, Biff is sitting at home and he wants a book which costs twenty bucks. snip The word for all this is ... insane :) Why? You'd just send the check to the bookseller. e-gold is not a payment system, it is money itself These days when someone offers to pay me for something with USD, I find it annoying and my thought is I suppose, well how can I get rid of these USD and get some e-gold to meet this month's expenses snip e-gold *is* a money, Adam, it's another currency like USD or CAN, that's the key. JP! JP, with this answer you have hit the ball right out of the park! The point is definitely to extract ourselves permanently from the muck of the fiat money system. Adam, I guess this sounds like an ideal world scenario to you, and you're right. The scenarios you describe are indeed economically unfeasible, involving a great amount of friction, drag, heat, noise, loss, etc. at the boundaries between fiat and gold. Only the ideal world scenario ultimately makes sense. So what's the motivation for someone to get into all this gold business, given the initial transaction costs and difficulty? Well, if you don't, you'll just be left behind and eventually nobody will want your monopoly money. Try expanding your personal network of trusted souls with whom you can exchange real money -- gold. Ideally, Patrick Chkoreff --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
I was not criticising the program per se... but it should be part of a clear overall marketing strategy. You can't just stick an affiliate program out there and then expect it to grow by itself. Now if they hired someone full time to go out and recruit affiliates, would it not be tens or hundreds of times more effective? Good Point! Craig --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 07:22 PM, Fidex Marketing wrote: ... Well JMR, I appreciate that this program might cost e-gold quite a bit of money but frankly the referral fees we get are negligible and do not make any difference one way or the other to any promotion I do for e-gold. I promote e-gold to people because I like it. Strange, it doesn't always sound that way. Perhaps if you promoted Fidex more, that'll help? The only people I can imagine might get substantial benefit from the referral program are the operators of ponzis and HYIPs. Correct me if I am wrong, anybody... ... Ok, you're wrong. You assume Ponzis stay around for a long enough time to give a crap about the incentive program, which is a bit clue- impaired, to say the least. Craig (one of the few who *HAS* done the math, instead of just listening to whoever yells and believing 'em as if they told the truth -- with no self-interest involved!) set you straight. The e-gold incentive program has just about 0 to do with anything fly- by-night, if you think about it. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
JMR, The only people I can imagine might get substantial benefit from the referral program are the operators of ponzis and HYIPs. Correct me if I am wrong, anybody... ... Ok, you're wrong. You assume Ponzis stay around for a long enough time to give a crap about the incentive program, which is a bit clue- impaired, to say the least. Craig (one of the few who *HAS* done the math, instead of just listening to whoever yells and believing 'em as if they told the truth -- with no self-interest involved!) set you straight. The e-gold incentive program has just about 0 to do with anything fly- by-night, if you think about it. JMR OK, well I accept your correction, it sounds logical. The incentive program and ponzis are things I have never tried very hard to learn about. You have told me who does NOT benefit from the incentive program. It would be interesting to know who DOES benefit, for example what is the largest amount of gold earned through the referral program by a single account? Also I much appreciate your personal input JMR on this list. But that was not really the point I was making. You brought up the incentive program as an example of e-gold's efforts at marketing. And I said, well even if you have the greatest incentive program in the world, it is pretty lousy marketing to have *just* an incentive program (and no I haven't forgotten the car stickers either) The other thing is that confidence in the system is probably the biggest marketing hurdle of all, yet nobody from e-gold takes the time to answer questions on the subject and the audit on the site is well over a year old. I guess you could say I put a lot of blind faith in the system, but convincing others to do that is much harder. Yes it is criticism, please do not take it personally... it is designed to be helpful, and I assume obtaining views and feedback was one of the main reasons this list was set up. I got a lot of criticism from members of this list about our old website, made some new friends and learned a lot more about web design in the process, and the result is our new website which has already drawn a lot of positive comments. Regards Nick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: Cost of purchasing e-gold
OK, well I accept your correction, it sounds logical. There's no point criticizing Jim, Nick, he's worse than me about it! ;-) --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
