Re: [Elecraft] Computer RFI in K2 -- Follow-Up

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 > I've definitely verified that it's the polling from the two laptops. 
Increasing the polling interval correspondingly decreases the cycling 
frequency. It's quite tolerable with the polling set at 50, but it would 
be nicer not to have the problem at all. I'm still open to any advice 
from anyone who's dealt with this in the past.

My experience with reports of this kind generally resolve to an open 
ground/shield on the USB cable.  The first thing to try is a different 
USB cable (if the cable is not "captive") and a different serial
converter if you can't replace the cable.

The data rate on the USB side of the serial converter is higher than
that on the RS-232 side and generally causes the largest part of the
noise problem.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/6/2010 10:43 PM, J. Wolf wrote:
> I've definitely verified that it's the polling from the two laptops.
 > Increasing the polling interval correspondingly decreases the cycling
 > frequency. It's quite tolerable with the polling set at 50, but it
 > would be nicer not to have the problem at all. I'm still open to any
 > advice from anyone who's dealt with this in the past.
> --Jeff, K6JW
>- Original Message -
>From: J. Wolf
>To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 1:13 PM
>Subject: Computer RFI in K2
>
>
>   Recently, I made up the cable to connect my K2/100 to both the KAT100 
> ATU and my laptop. Everything works just fine...except for RFI from the 
> computer to the radio when any of several logging programs is loaded (N1MM 
> and CommCat being my two main programs). It sounds like a rapidly cycling 
> change in the radio's noise level, and the S-meter reflects this, going from 
> a baseline band noise level up to S9 with a period of just under a second. 
> I've tried ferrite beads on everything, better grounding of the radio, and 
> just connecting to the computer without the ATU, but nothing seems to have 
> worked. The RFI isn't getting in via the coax feedline, since disconnecting 
> it has no effect. In desperation, I tried a different laptop but got the same 
> problem. The connection is via a serial to USB converter, and I've tried two 
> different ones with no resolution of the problem. There's NO problem when the 
> computer is running without either of the logging programs booted, so I'm 
> guess
ing
>   this might have something to do with polling. Does anyone have any 
> experience with this and, if so, any suggestions?
>Jeff, K6JW
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Craig,

The "balance" control - if you have configured the Sub AF control
as balance - will increase the audio level in one ear (e.g., main
receive in the left ear) and decrease it in the other ear (e.g.,
sub receiver in the right ear) or vice versa in either dual Rx
or Diversity mode.

If you are using dual RX mode (only) and have set L - MIX - R to
Ab  Ab, the mix control will change the relative proportion of
each signal in both ears (e.g., go from all main to all sub or
vice versa).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/6/2010 9:36 PM, Craig D. Smith wrote:
> Hi Rich ...
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
> Actually, I think I didn't explain myself well enough in my posting.  I
> wasn't referring to a "DX split" situation where the xmit and rx freq are
> substantially different.  I was referring to contest operation where I am
> running stations that are normally on my transmit freq but with the
> occasional need to fine tune the calling station if they are off frequency.
> Rather than do this with RIT, I am accustomed to using SPLIT, fixing my xmit
> freq on VFO B and fine tuning for rx with VFO A.  This is what I did before
> installing the subRX.
>
> Now that I have the subRX, I want to do the same thing, except put the subRX
> in "diversity" mode so that I can listen with two antennas simultaneously
> while still reserving VFO B for the fixed xmit freq.  This way I can listen
> at the same time to my Xmit antenna and an antenna connected to the SubRX
> Aux IN (usually my K9AY).  These antennas have different noise levels,
> polarization and directionality, so it is useful to listen with both of
> them, at least until I find the station I want to respond to.
>
> My question revolves around how the "balance" control operates when set up
> as above.  Some posters have indicated that it doesn't work when in
> "diversity" mode.  I'm interested in what others have found useful when
> using this type of arrangement.  i.e. - how to quickly emphasize one antenna
> or the other if needed for a particular station.
>
> 73   Craig  AC0DS
>
>
>
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[Elecraft] Line out audio

[Larry Godek]

"There is a Line Out level adjustment in the K3 configuration menu. Set it to 
"NOR" mode (fixed-level output, does not change with AF Gain control) and 
set the output level to about 7 (pretty low). This avoids distortion caused 
by too hot an output level into the sound card."

The previous was sent the other day thru the reflector to the list and i 
appended it for this message.

The crux of my question, which is still unanswered is "why does the Main rec AF 
gain control affect the line out jack level when i've verified that in the 
config menu it is set to normal and the adjustment in the config: line out menu 
item only adjusts the Sub rec audio output.  That is NOT the way it's supposed 
to be.  It's almost like something is X-d up before the line out adjustment.

Larry
W0OGH



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Re: [Elecraft] Computer RFI in K2 -- Follow-Up

[Jim Brown]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 19:43:21 -0700, J. Wolf wrote:

>I'm still open to any advice from anyone who's dealt with this in the past.

There are several possible mechanisms for coupling the RFI you're hearing. 

1) Direct radiation from the wiring inside the computer because it is either 
poorly shielded or has poor circuit board layout. 

2) Common mode radiation from one or more of the cables connected to the 
computer. This is made worse by serial ports with pin 1 problems, and by 
serial cables that are not twisted pairs. 

A big dent can be made in #2 with suitable common mode chokes on that wiring, 
and by building a serial cable according to the instructions in my RFI 
tutorial. http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf  For the serial cable, see 
the Chapter on Solving Problems in the Shack. 

The only solutions for #1 are replacing the computer or the bucket treatment. 

73, Jim Brown K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Computer RFI in K2 -- Follow-Up

[J. Wolf]

I've definitely verified that it's the polling from the two laptops. Increasing 
the polling interval correspondingly decreases the cycling frequency. It's 
quite tolerable with the polling set at 50, but it would be nicer not to have 
the problem at all. I'm still open to any advice from anyone who's dealt with 
this in the past.
--Jeff, K6JW
  - Original Message - 
  From: J. Wolf 
  To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 1:13 PM
  Subject: Computer RFI in K2


 Recently, I made up the cable to connect my K2/100 to both the KAT100 ATU 
and my laptop. Everything works just fine...except for RFI from the computer to 
the radio when any of several logging programs is loaded (N1MM and CommCat 
being my two main programs). It sounds like a rapidly cycling change in the 
radio's noise level, and the S-meter reflects this, going from a baseline band 
noise level up to S9 with a period of just under a second. I've tried ferrite 
beads on everything, better grounding of the radio, and just connecting to the 
computer without the ATU, but nothing seems to have worked. The RFI isn't 
getting in via the coax feedline, since disconnecting it has no effect. In 
desperation, I tried a different laptop but got the same problem. The 
connection is via a serial to USB converter, and I've tried two different ones 
with no resolution of the problem. There's NO problem when the computer is 
running without either of the logging programs booted, so I'm guessing 
 this might have something to do with polling. Does anyone have any experience 
with this and, if so, any suggestions?
  Jeff, K6JW
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Eric Tichansky]

Subject: Elecraft email List Official Guidelines 2010a
Date: 07/03/2010
From: e...@elecraft.com

...

5a. Please do not post publicly or privately asking people to stop a
particular thread, no matter how long, off topic or repetitive it gets.
Email me instead.
I will step in when I feel it is necessary to end a thread.
(e...@elecraft.com)

...

On 07/06/10 19:42, The Smiths wrote:
> Now, Can we end this thread? (for the 4th time)
>

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Richard Ferch]

Craig,

What you need is *not* diversity mode. Diversity mode will not allow you
to fine tune one receiver differently from the other one.

What you need is plain vanilla dual receive. You can either do it in SPLIT
mode the way you describe, or reversed (with the transmitter on VFO A, the
main receiver using the transmit antenna, and the subRX listening on the
Aux antenna and playing the role of the fine tuning receiver). Using the
reversed method, a simple tap of A>B brings the second receiver back to
your transmit frequency, whereas in SPLIT mode you have to press two
buttons (A/B then A>B) to bring the two receivers back together on your
chosen transmit frequency. Either way, you would set the subRX to receive
on its Aux input in order to listen on two antennas simultaneously.

With stereo headphones, the balance control will control the relative
volume in the two ears, i.e. the relative volume of the two receivers.
With a mono speaker (CONFIG:SPKRS = 1), or mono headphones plugged into
the rear speaker jack, you can control how much of each receiver you hear
in the mono audio using the balance control.

73,
Rich VE3KI


> Hi Rich ...
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
> Actually, I think I didn't explain myself well enough in my posting.  I
> wasn't referring to a "DX split" situation where the xmit and rx freq are
> substantially different.  I was referring to contest operation where I am
> running stations that are normally on my transmit freq but with the
> occasional need to fine tune the calling station if they are off
> frequency.
> Rather than do this with RIT, I am accustomed to using SPLIT, fixing my
> xmit
> freq on VFO B and fine tuning for rx with VFO A.  This is what I did
> before
> installing the subRX.
>
> Now that I have the subRX, I want to do the same thing, except put the
> subRX
> in "diversity" mode so that I can listen with two antennas simultaneously
> while still reserving VFO B for the fixed xmit freq.  This way I can
> listen
> at the same time to my Xmit antenna and an antenna connected to the SubRX
> Aux IN (usually my K9AY).  These antennas have different noise levels,
> polarization and directionality, so it is useful to listen with both of
> them, at least until I find the station I want to respond to.
>
> My question revolves around how the "balance" control operates when set up
> as above.  Some posters have indicated that it doesn't work when in
> "diversity" mode.  I'm interested in what others have found useful when
> using this type of arrangement.  i.e. - how to quickly emphasize one
> antenna
> or the other if needed for a particular station.
>
> 73   Craig  AC0DS
>
>
>
>


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Craig D. Smith]

Hi Rich ...

Thanks for the response.

Actually, I think I didn't explain myself well enough in my posting.  I
wasn't referring to a "DX split" situation where the xmit and rx freq are
substantially different.  I was referring to contest operation where I am
running stations that are normally on my transmit freq but with the
occasional need to fine tune the calling station if they are off frequency.
Rather than do this with RIT, I am accustomed to using SPLIT, fixing my xmit
freq on VFO B and fine tuning for rx with VFO A.  This is what I did before
installing the subRX.

Now that I have the subRX, I want to do the same thing, except put the subRX
in "diversity" mode so that I can listen with two antennas simultaneously
while still reserving VFO B for the fixed xmit freq.  This way I can listen
at the same time to my Xmit antenna and an antenna connected to the SubRX
Aux IN (usually my K9AY).  These antennas have different noise levels,
polarization and directionality, so it is useful to listen with both of
them, at least until I find the station I want to respond to.

My question revolves around how the "balance" control operates when set up
as above.  Some posters have indicated that it doesn't work when in
"diversity" mode.  I'm interested in what others have found useful when
using this type of arrangement.  i.e. - how to quickly emphasize one antenna
or the other if needed for a particular station.

73   Craig  AC0DS



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[Elecraft] K-3: AFSK-A switching to FSK-D - Fixed!

[RLVZ]

 
Thanks to K6LL and W3FPR my problem has been solved.  The problem was  with 
the Configuration Settings on my N1MM software.  Simply had to change  the 
N1MM Mode Control: "Mode Sent To Radio" to: "RTTY to AFSK".
 
Thanks for the assistance!
 
73,
Dick- K9OM   
 
 
r...@aol_.com_ (mailto:z...@aol.com)  wrote:

> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm running AFSK-A on my K-3 but it's  often switching to FSK-D on  it's 
> own.  I thought the once I  maually set the Mode to AFSK-A using the 
"DATA MD" 
> button that the K-3  would stay put on AFSK-A  each time I returned to 
that 
> band.   If I change band and return it's  back on FSK-D.  I notice it 
switches  
> from AFSK-A to FSK-D even when  operating on the same band and  clicking 
on 
> a Packet Spot.  
>  
> Is there  something else that must be done after I select AFSK-A with  
the 
>  "DATA MD" button to store this in memory?
>  
>  Thanks!
>  
> Dick- K9OM  
>
>



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Re: [Elecraft] Older K2

[Don Wilhelm]

Neil,

Download and review the K2 A to B instructions, and you will see some 
explanation for many of the official upgrades.
I would suggest you add the 2nd Xtal Flattening Mod since you have the 
KSB2 installed - it will flatten the OP1 filter passband.
If you are content with the thermal stability of your K2, that is fine, 
but if you wish to improve it, I would suggest adding the BFO mod and th 
thermistor mod.  If you run an amplifier, I would strongly recommend the 
K2 Keying Waveshape Mod which eliminates keyclicks (but also requires 
new firmware).

I doubt that you will have any real problems with your older K2, but the 
A to B mods do add some improvement to the K2 stability.

BTW - the rework eliminators are no longer available (unless you can 
find an uninstalled kit), but the IMA is still being shipped as far as I 
know.

73,
Don W3FPR

Neil Shubert wrote:
> Hi All.
> I have a K2- ser# 2676
>
> I will look to upgrade to the re-work eliminator, unpcbs internal mic
> adaptor and other kits as well
>
> I know there were design changes made to the radio after my manufacturing
> run. What improvements came out of these changes and Does anyone know if I
> will have any problems or what problems I need to expect from a pre-
> upgraded radio.
>
> Neil Shubert
> AC2O
> K2-2676
> KSB2 KDSP2 KNB2 KAT2 K160RX
>
>   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Richard Ferch]

Craig,

What you suggest is perfectly possible, but it has nothing whatsoever to
do with diversity reception. It is simply dual receive. You can use dual
receive either on two separate frequencies, as you suggest (listening to
the DX on one receiver and the pileup on the other), or on the same
frequency (e.g. listening to two antennas non-coherently and summing or
mixing the audio signals as desired).

In addition to the mode you have suggested (SPLIT on, main RX listening to
the DX, subRX listening to the pileup where you will be transmitting), you
can also turn SPLIT off and listen to the DX on the subRX and the pileup
on the main RX. With SPLIT off, the main tuning knob controls your
transmitter's frequency. I find this method easier to use than the other
method, but that's a personal preference. Either way, you can use the
balance control and mixing options to control how much of each receiver
you hear in each ear.

In dual receive mode, the two VFOs run independently. If you choose, the
K3 allows you to link the two VFO frequencies together by holding the SUB
button to enter LINK mode. What this actually does is allow the main
tuning encoder to change the two VFO frequencies in parallel. It does not
phase-lock the two VFOs, which still run independently (non-coherently).
If they started out on the same frequency at the time you linked them,
they will continue to stay together in frequency as you turn the main
tuning knob, but the VFO B knob can also be used to control VFO B
separately from VFO A. To "detach" the main tuning knob encoder from VFO
B, hold SUB again to UNLINK the two VFOs.

Diversity mode is different; in effect, what it means is that both
receivers are using a single VFO. The VFO B knob can control the
transmitter in SPLIT when you are in diversity mode, but whether you are
in SPLIT or not, the VFO B knob has no effect on either receiver. You
cannot listen on two different frequencies at once in diversity mode.

73,
Rich VE3KI


AC0DS wrote:

When running, I like to use Split with the xmit freq on VFO B.  I then tune
the calling stations, if required, using VFO A.  I normally use a fairly
wide BW (300-500 Hz) to avoid much tuning on strong signals.  I was hoping
to use the "diversity" mode for this so that I could monitor two antennas at
once, one in each ear.  If copy became difficult or if the other antenna was
creating more interference than help, it would be useful to use the
"balance" control to focus my attention on the signal I was trying to copy.
I understand this is not true diversity, at least in the extreme.  But it
does seem useful, at least to my simple-minded way of looking at things.


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[Elecraft] Older K2

[Neil Shubert]

Hi All.
I have a K2- ser# 2676

I will look to upgrade to the re-work eliminator, unpcbs internal mic
adaptor and other kits as well

I know there were design changes made to the radio after my manufacturing
run. What improvements came out of these changes and Does anyone know if I
will have any problems or what problems I need to expect from a pre-
upgraded radio.

Neil Shubert
AC2O
K2-2676
KSB2 KDSP2 KNB2 KAT2 K160RX


Thanks
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 > If the Silicone Police didn't interfere, this feature that has
 > already been programmed and ready for implementation could be turned
 > on and this discussion would be over.

That's about as sanctimonious and stupid as I've heard on this list
for a long time.  It is obviously based in the ignorance of a long
time appliance operator who has no idea what he's talking about.

Wayne has regularly indicated that he has a very long list of
programming items for the K3 and that he does not like to spend
time on items that can already be accomplished, that create added
"options" ("lock out") or opportunities to confuse most users,
and most certainly can result in decreased or improper performance
of the K3.  Your temper tantrum meets all three of those tests.

 > This is NOT a feature that would affect your operation if it
 > were made available.

This is most certainly a misfeature that would result in decreased
performance to my receiver if it were enabled.

 > I know that Lyle sees this as being the case, as he's already said
 > exactly what I just did.

Lyle gave you one way to achieve your desired goals, I gave you
another ... both use existing capabilities of the K3 and neither
represent the potential for improper operation of diversity mode.

 > However, what disappoints me more is the fact that Joe, you didn't
 > even bother to try it out like I asked you too...  You're mind is
 > just made up before you've seen what it actually does on some weak
 > signals.

I did not need to "try it out" this time.  I've used diversity and
I know full well from experience what happens when one MIXES audio
rather than keeping each channel separate.  You, on the other hand,
are so hell bent on getting your own way that you will insist on a
decrease in performance of the rig for every other user rather
than use the dual receive function which is more appropriate in
your case.

 > Now, this has become an argument.

You're right - this has become an argument.  That's generally
what happens when one party in a debate lacks is incapable of
realizing when their position is factually incorrect and
logically flawed.  You're not arguing with my experience, you
continue to argue with W8JI, K9YC, W7AY and many other very
experienced engineers and operators.

Hell, if you want to mix audio in diversity, just set "Speakers
= 1" and plug your headphones into the speaker jack.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/6/2010 12:23 PM, The Smiths wrote:
>
> If the Silicone Police didn't interfere, this feature that has
> already been programmed and ready for implementation could be turned
> on and this discussion would be over. Some times it's just easier to
> let a feature go that others don't see the use for instead of
> policing how others use their radios.  This is NOT a feature that
> would affect your operation if it were made available.
>
> I know that Lyle sees this as being the case, as he's already said
> exactly what I just did.  However, what disappoints me more is the
> fact that Joe, you didn't even bother to try it out like I asked you
> too...  You're mind is just made up before you've seen what it
> actually does on some weak signals. There is more than just myself
> out here that don't have the perfect Diversity antenna set up.  Many
> people in small QTH's have exactally what I have for a set up, and
> this feature would help them out greatly.  You've already heard from
> others that have their ideas on how to use this feature too.
>
> Yes, you're right, If I wanted to operate in Dual receive mode and
> track my VFO's together then make sure antennas were set up the way
> that they need to be, adjust all the other features, make sure the
> Width is set together... Or, I could just turn on the Mixer!
>
> Now, this has become an argument.  At this point we should STOP
> talking about this.. We're agreeing at the same time we're
> arguingEnough said.
>
>  _
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from
> your inbox.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP Board Upgrade Info

[Andy Wood]

I have now posted the images to the following. Thanks to "The Smiths" for his
input and photo of the DSP board.

http://s840.photobucket.com/albums/zz330/VK4KY/Elecraft%20DSP%20Mods/

Andy  VK4KY
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View this message in context: 
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Re: [Elecraft] K-3: AFSK-A switching to FSK-D

[Don Wilhelm]

Dick,

If the K3 changes to FSK-D "when clicking on a Packet Spot" as you 
indicated, I would investigate what the computer application is sending 
to the K3 - it may be sending the commands that make the data mode change.

Does it change if you shut down the software application?

73,
Don W3FPR

r...@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm running AFSK-A on my K-3 but it's often switching to FSK-D on  it's 
> own.  I thought the once I maually set the Mode  to AFSK-A using the "DATA 
> MD" 
> button that the K-3 would stay put on AFSK-A  each time I returned to that 
> band.  If I change band and return it's  back on FSK-D.  I notice it switches 
> from AFSK-A to FSK-D even when  operating on the same band and clicking on 
> a Packet Spot.  
>  
> Is there something else that must be done after I select AFSK-A with  the 
> "DATA MD" button to store this in memory?
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> Dick- K9OM  
>
>   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[The Smiths]

" You could achieve the same effect by summing at the input frequency after a 
 buffer/pre-amplifier."

 

Or, I could just turn on the Mixer and do it all with one push of a button.  
Thank you for your input, I don't disagree with what you've said, I'm just 
suggesting that it's easier to push a single button on the rig instead of 
making buffer input mixers to do the same thing. 

Something tells me that Wayne or Eric will implement this function some day in 
the feature. Like myself, I don't think that they feel it's necessary to 
"police" how others make use of their radios. After all, it's just a matter of 
turning it on along with the other modes the mixer can run in now.  The code 
has already been written... Now, Can we end this thread? (for the 4th time)
  
_
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Craig D. Smith]

I've been following this discussion (at least the parts that aren't
super-technical) since I recently installed the sub RX and plan to use it
for CW contesting.

As a new sub RX user I may not understand all the ins and outs of it, but
here was my plan.

When running, I like to use Split with the xmit freq on VFO B.  I then tune
the calling stations, if required, using VFO A.  I normally use a fairly
wide BW (300-500 Hz) to avoid much tuning on strong signals.  I was hoping
to use the "diversity" mode for this so that I could monitor two antennas at
once, one in each ear.  If copy became difficult or if the other antenna was
creating more interference than help, it would be useful to use the
"balance" control to focus my attention on the signal I was trying to copy.
I understand this is not true diversity, at least in the extreme.  But it
does seem useful, at least to my simple-minded way of looking at things.

I'm starting to prepare for the IARU contest this weekend, so if any of you
more experienced sub-RX users have any suggestions please share them.

73  Craig  AC0DS



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Re: [Elecraft] K-3: AFSK-A switching to FSK-D

[Dave Hachadorian]

Do you use the quick-memory buttons to change bands? If so, you 
have to store AFSK-A when you write to memory.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Big Bear Lake, CA



--
From: 
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:20 PM
To: 
Subject: [Elecraft] K-3: AFSK-A switching to FSK-D

> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm running AFSK-A on my K-3 but it's often switching to FSK-D 
> on  it's
> own.  I thought the once I maually set the Mode  to AFSK-A 
> using the "DATA MD"
> button that the K-3 would stay put on AFSK-A  each time I 
> returned to that
> band.  If I change band and return it's  back on FSK-D.  I 
> notice it switches
> from AFSK-A to FSK-D even when  operating on the same band and 
> clicking on
> a Packet Spot.
>
> Is there something else that must be done after I select AFSK-A 
> with  the
> "DATA MD" button to store this in memory?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dick- K9OM
>
>
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[Elecraft] K-3: AFSK-A switching to FSK-D

[RLVZ]

Hi Guys,

I'm running AFSK-A on my K-3 but it's often switching to FSK-D on  it's 
own.  I thought the once I maually set the Mode  to AFSK-A using the "DATA MD" 
button that the K-3 would stay put on AFSK-A  each time I returned to that 
band.  If I change band and return it's  back on FSK-D.  I notice it switches 
from AFSK-A to FSK-D even when  operating on the same band and clicking on 
a Packet Spot.  
 
Is there something else that must be done after I select AFSK-A with  the 
"DATA MD" button to store this in memory?
 
Thanks!
 
Dick- K9OM  
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Tom W8JI]

Hi David,

The Beverage and the vertical are both vertically polarized.

A single vertical is a very broad pattern with much less directivity than a 
Beverage. Since for receiving signal-to-noise is closely tied to directive 
pattern and not gain or antenna type, the vertical will have significantly 
less signal-to-noise ratio.

By mixing them both in one channel the beverage is really being phased 
against the vertical, and this will almost certainly be better than the 
vertical alone. Anything quieter (more directive) mixed in would improve the 
poor S/N of the vertical. This is because the combination of the vertical 
and Beverage is more directional than the vertical alone, so being more 
directional it has to be quieter.

I have no doubt the improvement seen by mixing the two is very real, but it 
would be better accomplished by using a noise canceller or phasing unit that 
allows adjustment of phase and levels, rather than random phase and level 
mixing.

I'm not opposed in the least to having an ability to mix the main and sub 
channels at the audio output in diversity mode. Even though it is not 
diversity, it could have some uses for some people. For example, it could be 
used when receiving multiple directions on SSB. It would not be good for 
phasing two antennas, because the K3 slowly rotates phase shift between main 
and sub as the dial is rotated to new frequencies. It would be better to use 
a noise canceller to do that in front of the receivers if the receivers are 
not being used for split directions.

I just strongly feel if allowed it should be something that can be locked 
out to prevent it from accidentally being applied to a system that is true 
diversity, since it would hurt that system. It could help people wanting to 
receive different directions at the same time using common bandwidths and 
other settings between both channels. maybe it is useful, but just under a 
different name (not in diversity) and way to activate.


> What you are trying to achieve is a (rather expensive) implementation of
>  a, single, non-steerable, phased array antenna.

It steers when the dial is turned, because main to sub phase rotates to a 
new difference as the dial is turned.

If there really is no
> phase difference, you've effectively synthesised a diagonally polarized
> antenna (although I can't work out why your signal polarisations should
> only occupy one quadrant).  You don't have a diversity system.  You
> could achieve the same effect by summing at the input frequency after a
> buffer/pre-amplifier.

Both a Beverage and vertical are vertically polarized. It would not be 
diagonal polarization in most directions, it would mostly be vertical in any 
phase combination since both antennas primarily have vertical response.

73 Tom 

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Re: [Elecraft] Reduced-height bail

[Mel Farrer]

I like it the way it is, sorta.  I like the KISS approach.  I put 1/4" coaster 
pads on the front feet only and got the optimum position for me.  Thanks Wayne.

Mel

--- On Tue, 7/6/10, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

From: Wayne Burdick 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reduced-height bail
To: "Elecraft Reflector" 
Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 2:27 PM

The 2" height of the K3's tilt stand is a compromise: lower than the  
K2, higher than some other rigs. We arrived at this height after a lot  
of experimentation, and would rather not change it. All of our tilt  
stands are custom-designed, so we incur significant tooling costs.

The K2 tilt stands (1.5 and 2.5") will not fit on the K3.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] 6 Meter Output From KRC2

[Don Wilhelm]

Scott,

KRC2 firmware version 1.5 *should* include 6 meters?  Have you tried to 
see if the XV1 outputs activate when the K3 is set to 6 meters?  It is 
supposed to be activated by the AUXBUS.
Jack Brindle's post of 5/30/2010 makes a definitive statement:
---

The latest KRC2 code adds 6-meter support for the K3. It enables the XV1 
terminal when the K3 indicates it is on 6 meters, and when cycling through the 
band selections with the F1 and F2 keys.

Jack Brindle, W6FB

--

Have you tried downloading a fresh copy of the KRC2 Download Program?

73,
Don W3FPR

Scott Prather wrote:
> I have a KRC2 that, among other things, I would like to use to switch
> between an HF antenna below 30 MHz and a 6 M antenna when the 50 MHz band is
> selected. My KRC2 microcontroller came with V1.5 from the factory.
>
> snip...
>
> I can't get the KRC2 configuration utility to work (it will connect long
> enough to read the FW version then loose connectivity), so setting an
> alternative bandmap isn't possible using this tool. Has anyone learned the
> secret for setting a stand-alone switched output on 6 meters from the KRC2?
> Will XV1 be enabled for 6 meters if a certain jumper is installed?
>
>
>   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[David Woolley (E.L)]

What you are trying to achieve is a (rather expensive) implementation of 
  a, single, non-steerable, phased array antenna. If there really is no 
phase difference, you've effectively synthesised a diagonally polarized 
antenna (although I can't work out why your signal polarisations should 
only occupy one quadrant).  You don't have a diversity system.  You 
could achieve the same effect by summing at the input frequency after a 
buffer/pre-amplifier.

If you actually summed both with and without a 180 degree shift between 
the two signals, you could feed them into the main and sub-rx and get 
true diversity between (for the diagonal case) the + and - 45 degree 
polarisations.  Whether that is any better than true diversity between 0 
and 90 degrees, I don't know.

Top quoted through policy, not belief.

The Smiths wrote:
> 
> When I have phase shifting between the two antennas I don't have
> Phase shifting in my audio Left and right. In that I mean, if I look at the
> voltage on the o'scope I do not see the signal coming out of my head
> phones phasing from positive voltage to a negative voltage in the
> inverse between the two headphone outputs (L/R).
> Unlike AC where when one side swings negative, if you were to add the inverse 
> you would cancel out the entire signal (as you guys keep saying is the case), 
> this is not the case with the diversity reception here at my QTH (and no I 
> don't live in the bermuda triangle).  The phase is in the antenna reception.. 
> Not the audio that we listen to.  When my vertical is picking up a vertical 
> phased signal it is very possible that my Horizontal antenna is not receiving 
> any signal at all.. Therefore if I have Mix on so that the sub is placed in 
> the Main's headphone I do not cancel out the audio in the both ears. I am 
> simply adding AUDIO, not phase, to one side of my headphone or the other.
>

-- 
David Woolley
"we do not overly restrict the subject matter on the list, and we
encourage postings on a wide range of amateur radio related topics"
List Guidelines 
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[Elecraft] 6 Meter Output From KRC2

[Scott Prather]

I have a KRC2 that, among other things, I would like to use to switch
between an HF antenna below 30 MHz and a 6 M antenna when the 50 MHz band is
selected. My KRC2 microcontroller came with V1.5 from the factory.

Because the KRC2 was originally designed with the 10 HF bands in mind, I'm
finding that documentation concerning its use on 6 meters to be lacking.
After searching the reflector archives, I found an e-mail from 23 January,
2009, which states that KRC2s with V1.5 firmware include bandmaps which
allow 6 meters to appear as XV1. However, nothing I've tried in the
configuration menu will cause XV1 to change when 6 meters is selected.
Instead, XV1 changes when a transverter band is defined and selected (this
is what I would expect). The only way I can associate any switched output
with 6 meters is to set KRC2 Band6=b10 in the config menu. With this
setting, I see a switched output on the 10 meter contacts for both 6 and 10
meters. This will suffice for now, but I need a stand-alone switched output
for 6 meters.

I can't get the KRC2 configuration utility to work (it will connect long
enough to read the FW version then loose connectivity), so setting an
alternative bandmap isn't possible using this tool. Has anyone learned the
secret for setting a stand-alone switched output on 6 meters from the KRC2?
Will XV1 be enabled for 6 meters if a certain jumper is installed?

Tnx,

Scott
N7NB

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Re: [Elecraft] Reduced-height bail

[Wayne Burdick]

The 2" height of the K3's tilt stand is a compromise: lower than the  
K2, higher than some other rigs. We arrived at this height after a lot  
of experimentation, and would rather not change it. All of our tilt  
stands are custom-designed, so we incur significant tooling costs.

The K2 tilt stands (1.5 and 2.5") will not fit on the K3.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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[Elecraft] Computer RFI in K2

[J. Wolf]

   Recently, I made up the cable to connect my K2/100 to both the KAT100 ATU 
and my laptop. Everything works just fine...except for RFI from the computer to 
the radio when any of several logging programs is loaded (N1MM and CommCat 
being my two main programs). It sounds like a rapidly cycling change in the 
radio's noise level, and the S-meter reflects this, going from a baseline band 
noise level up to S9 with a period of just under a second. I've tried ferrite 
beads on everything, better grounding of the radio, and just connecting to the 
computer without the ATU, but nothing seems to have worked. The RFI isn't 
getting in via the coax feedline, since disconnecting it has no effect. In 
desperation, I tried a different laptop but got the same problem. The 
connection is via a serial to USB converter, and I've tried two different ones 
with no resolution of the problem. There's NO problem when the computer is 
running without either of the logging programs booted, so I'm guessing th
 is might have something to do with polling. Does anyone have any experience 
with this and, if so, any suggestions?
Jeff, K6JW
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Rich - K1HTV]

Dave,
   The 6 Meter band can be VERY selective as to who is favored with the
propagation required to work DX. You must know to what area the DX is working.
Keep and eye on the 'www.vhfdx.net' website and its DX-Sherlock application to
see what regions are working each other.  If others in your region are working
DX and you are not hearing it, keep listening. Don't be surprised if suddenly
you begin to hear DX. Don't expect to just turn on your K3 and hear the DX that
others are working, although that does happen at times during a widespread
opening.

So, what does it take to work DX on 50 MHz? Well, I presently am using a
barefoot K3 and a yagi on my back porch, only 20 feet high. From my VA QTH
(FM18ap), in the direction of SE thru SW the yagi looks into the house. In all
other directions, including Europe and the West Coast the yagi look into 40 to
50 ft high trees. You would thing that with this antennas system I'd have a
tough time working DX.  Not so! Making QSOs is quite easy...when the band opens
up. Since July 1, over 270 QSOs have been entered into the K1HTV log book,
almost half of them on CW. 

Since the first of June, 44 DX countries have been worked, 27 of them since July
1st. Countries worked on 6 Meters with the low yagi and K3 include 9A, 9H, 9Y,
C5, C6, CN, CO, CT, CT3,CU, E7, EA, EA6, EA8, EI, F, FG, FM, FS, G, GD, GJ, HA,
HI, I, J3, J6, J8, KP2, KP4, LA, OX, P4, PJ2, S5, TF, V4, VE, VP2M, VP5, VP9, W,
XE and YN.

You will find that being up in FN42 you should be able to work much more Europe
DX than down here in VA, and probably the same amount of DX to the south. Just
be patient. If you are at you K3 when the band opens up there you'll soon be
entering DX QSOs into the N1IX log.

Have fun with your K3 on the magic Band!

73,
Rich - K1HTV
http:www.k1htv.us

= = =


Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:53:44 -0400
From: "David leDuc" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
To: 
Message-ID: <001a01cb1d12$a6627bc0$f32773...@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

I know this is not a 6 meter discussion group but I do have a K3.
I am hearing a lot of people on 6 meters working DX which I cannot hear,
also calling CQDX. I am wondering what kind of antennas you are using? I am
using a 3 element SteppIr and am in  FN42

Dave N1IX

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Re: [Elecraft] Provocative Kenwood Advert - TS590 vs K3

[Tom W8JI]

There are three types of HF and 160 meter fading I can identify.

1.) Normal ionospheric fading

2.) Fading caused when wide-spaced antennas are directly combined, making a 
very sharp pattern. The signal, as arrival angles change, moves in and out 
of pattern nulls.

3.) Multipath.

Number 2 is caused by directly combining wide-spaced antennas, either before 
the receiver or at audio at the receiver audio outputs. Using stereo and 
keeping the channels isolated eliminates this problem.

If antennas are the same polarization (like a Beverage and a vertical array) 
and closely spaced, antennas can be directly combined. They also are not 
diversity and don't really help 1 and 2, so they might as well be mixed at 
RF as at audio.

My eight vertical array, only 300-400 feet from my rearmost Beverages, can 
be used to totally null the signal from the rear Beverages on 160 because 
the spacing is so close and the polarization is the same. There is virtually 
no difference between those antennas in S/N, directivity, and polarization.

73 Tom


- Original Message - 
From: "Giancarlo Moda" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 2:36 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Provocative Kenwood Advert - TS590 vs K3


> Hi all,
>
> sorry for this late note, but I sent it in html and resulted in a too 
> large file.
>
> TS-590 the K3 killer …. ???
>
> It could be possible, but to demonstrate who is the killer we need facts 
> and features palpable, not noise.
>
> I would like to explain my point of view on the above subject. Please 
> excuse me if I may sound “aggressive” but we have to put light on same 
> specific points to make real comparisons. K3 does not need a violin 
> fiddler...
>
> For a comparison we do need tests that can avoid personal interest or love 
> ...
>
> First test could be the comparison of TS590 and K3 circuit diagram, 
> looking at the receiver path, although we should look at the TX area for 
> reduction of spuries emitted.
>
> Second test, an independent review like the ones made by Peter Hart, 
> G3SJX, and published in RadCom (RSGB). Peter is a gentleman and does not 
> usually “offend” the manufacturers but reports his reviews quite clearly, 
> although he does not write as much as he was doing in the past century. If 
> you look properly at Peter’s measurement tables, you will understand the 
> quality of equipments from the “measurements” point of you. K3 Review has 
> been already published with good reports, see RadCom July 2008.
>
> Third test, have a couple of contest users, the ones that do scores, with 
> bended eyes, operating the two equipment, being swapped by external 
> judges, during an SSB and a CW international contest, maybe on 40 and 80 
> meters. Here we have the real “ear test” that is what it really counts.
> It is possible that Kenwood may have produced a real K3 killer, if they 
> have well studied the K3.
>
> I will be critical here to help an owner or a buyer of both equipment to 
> understand where change of performances could be located (improvement by 
> Kenwood)
>
> PROBABLY I AM COMPLETELY WRONG …
> other friends may explain better than me the PRO and CON guessed till real 
> data and information will be available.
>
> Let see my guessing:
>
> First Mixer
> K3 employs a switched mixer using a Fast Bus Switch but it is not an 
> H-Mode Mixer. It is the classic Ed Oxner double balanced mixer from the 
> 70s with an FST in place of JFET or MOS.
> TS590 may employ a similar mixer, if not using FST it may use JFET or MOS. 
> At this point there should not much differences IF Xtal BP Filter
> K3 uses a homebrew like ladder filter. Selectivity and symmetric curve is 
> not published. Quality INRAD Filters (same as in the FT1000xx) are 
> available and they should make some difference.
> TS590 may use a classic filter with better selectivity and symmetric 
> curve.
>
> RF and IF amplifiers
> K3 amplifiers are not too impressive in performances, but they are not 
> bad.
> TS590 may have the IF stages more performing in noise and linearity.
>
> Image Noise Filter
> K3 has an image noise filter (2 xtals - BW 14kHz) to reduce noise 
> generated by the IF amplifier entering the second mixer. TS590 may not has 
> it.
>
> Second Mixer
> K3 employs an SA612 mixer chip. I believe this is the most critical stage. 
> The SA612 has a stage gain around 18/20 dB and an IP3 around -15dBm. It 
> means that if two strong signal passing through the IF filter reach this 
> stage they will generate important intermodulation, we hope it will be 
> “handled” by the DSP with software BPF and Notches.
> TS590 may have a better mixer, classic diode or switched DBM, maybe I-Q. 
> Here Kenwood may have a big benefit, plus valid side band attenuation if 
> I-Q. With a passive mixer, the gain distribution will have to be reviewed, 
> requiring better amplifier stages and screening.
>
> DSP
> K3 has high performing DSP, where KK7P involvement is a guarantee of 
> quality and performance
> TS590 may have the lat

[Elecraft] Provocative Kenwood Advert - TS590 vs K3

[Giancarlo Moda]

Hi all,

sorry for this late note, but I sent it in html and resulted in a too large 
file.

TS-590 the K3 killer …. ???

It could be possible, but to demonstrate who is the killer we need facts and 
features palpable, not noise.

I would like to explain my point of view on the above subject.  Please excuse 
me if I may sound “aggressive” but we have to put light on same specific points 
to make real comparisons. K3 does not need a violin fiddler...

For a comparison we do need tests that can avoid  personal interest or love ...

First test could be the comparison of TS590 and K3 circuit diagram, looking at 
the receiver path, although we should look at the TX area for reduction of 
spuries emitted.

Second test, an independent review like the ones made by Peter Hart, G3SJX, and 
published in RadCom (RSGB). Peter is a gentleman and does not usually “offend” 
the manufacturers but reports his reviews quite clearly, although he does not 
write as much as he was doing in the past century. If you look properly at 
Peter’s measurement tables, you will understand the quality of equipments from 
the “measurements” point of you. K3 Review has been already published with good 
reports, see RadCom July 2008.

Third test, have a couple of contest users, the ones that do scores, with 
bended eyes, operating the two equipment, being swapped by external judges, 
during an SSB and a CW international contest, maybe on 40 and 80 meters. Here 
we have the real “ear test” that is what it really counts.
It is possible that Kenwood may have produced a real K3 killer, if they have 
well studied the K3.

I will be critical here to help an owner or a buyer of both equipment to 
understand where change of performances could be located (improvement by 
Kenwood)

PROBABLY I AM COMPLETELY WRONG …  
other friends may explain better than me the PRO and CON guessed till real data 
and information will be available.

Let see my guessing:

First Mixer 
K3 employs a switched mixer using a Fast Bus Switch but it is not an H-Mode 
Mixer. It is the classic Ed Oxner double balanced mixer from the 70s with an 
FST in place of JFET or MOS.
TS590 may employ a similar mixer, if not using FST it may use JFET or MOS. At 
this point there should not much differences IF Xtal BP Filter
 K3 uses a homebrew like ladder filter. Selectivity and symmetric curve is not 
published. Quality INRAD Filters (same as in the FT1000xx) are available and 
they should make some difference.
 TS590 may use a classic filter with better selectivity and symmetric curve.

RF and IF amplifiers
 K3 amplifiers are not too impressive in performances, but they are not bad.
 TS590 may have the IF stages more performing in noise and linearity. 

Image Noise Filter
 K3 has an image noise filter (2 xtals - BW 14kHz) to reduce noise generated by 
the IF amplifier entering the second mixer. TS590 may not has it.

Second Mixer
 K3 employs an SA612 mixer chip. I believe this is the most critical stage. The 
SA612 has a stage gain around 18/20 dB and an IP3 around -15dBm. It means that 
if two strong signal passing through the IF filter reach this stage they will 
generate important intermodulation, we hope it will be “handled” by the DSP 
with software BPF and Notches.
 TS590 may have a better mixer, classic diode or switched DBM, maybe I-Q.  Here 
Kenwood may have a big benefit, plus valid side band attenuation if I-Q. With a 
passive mixer, the gain distribution will have to be reviewed, requiring better 
amplifier stages and screening.

DSP
 K3 has high performing DSP, where KK7P involvement is a guarantee of quality 
and performance
 TS590 may have the latest IC technology but may be poor on the software side 
to give performing functionalities.
 
Synthesizer
 K3 has a DDS plus a PLL to have low number of spurs and a not too bad phase 
noise.
 TS590 may have something similar or only a DDS. Here we will have a very low 
phase noise but probably several disturbing spurs.

Second RX
 K3 has the option for a second receiver
TS590 it looks like has only a single receiver. 

At this point we have a question: How many users will be interested or in bad 
need of a second receiver? I could not care less for a second receiver… but for 
a DX cheasers or Contestmen it would be an important feature.

There are two additional aspects that we have to think of:

1) TS590 price versus K3

2) For non USA customers a local service center support will make a difference 
as Elecraft has only a return service to USA or swapping parts service. I am 
sure Elecraft has a better technical support than Kenwood.

I am not an equipment purchaser, unless I do get it for a really good price. I 
like to modify equipment to improve performances … maybe I am OK for a gift … hi

I try my best not to be “married” with any specific manufacturer I am an 
homebrewer (supposed to be...hi)

I hope you do appreciate my notes written not to put in bad light the K3 nor to 
put in better light the TS590. My notes are to h

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Kok Chen]

On Jul 6, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> Because MOST fading is 
> the result of cancellations between a direct wave and a reflected wave 
> arriving at some particular point.

HF fading is actually a very interesting phenomenon, and definitely not just a 
case of signal cancellation.

If you decompose an RF signal into in-phase and the quadrature components, and 
then allow each component to go through a scattering function that has 
independent Gaussian statistics, the resultant signal vector has what is called 
the bivariate Gaussian distribution.  The most interesting thing about this is 
the modulus of a bivariate Gaussian has a ta, da Rayleigh Distribution!

[Gaussian statistics (the "Bell curve") is something very common in science, 
being the direct consequence of something in mathematics called the Central 
Limit Theorem.]

Phenomena such as flat fading and selective fading (the reason why we need 
synchronous AM detection and why we use two tones in RTTY) that we encounter on 
HF occurs in a Rayleigh channel even when the signal is not multi-pathed.  

Multipath fading (also called Rician fading) is the result of cancellation of 
signals from different paths.  On HF, the scattering function of the ionosphere 
is enough to produce fading, without the need of multipath.

Now, if you want very rapid fading (which we commonly classify as "flutter"), 
that is a different story -- I have only been able to produce it by introducing 
multiple paths.

If you run an HF Channel Simulator such as PathSim (on Windows) or cocoaPath 
(on Mac OS X), you will notice that both flat fading and selective fading occur 
when the ionospheric model consists of only a single path.  Both of these 
programs are free (and written by hams :-).  Way back when, Johan KC7WW had 
written a channel simulator for Linux, but I haven't seen mention of it for a 
while now.

Russ AA7QU has made some recordings of what CW and SSB sound like through an HF 
channel simulator (you'll need to excuse Russ for some of his proselytizing, he 
is a good friend and a friend of the Mac OS :-):

http://adventure-radio.org/wiki/index.php?title=OOK_vs_21st_Century

Indeed, one way you can lab test a receiver for HF conditions and get 
repeatable results, is to run a signal (CW, RTTY, etc) through an HF Channel 
Simulator and into an SSB transmitter (use a dummy load, or people who listens 
would think there is a solar flare on :-).  Then tap off the transmitter output 
into the receiver under test.  Channel simulators not only can model the 
ionosphere but can add a known amount of noise to model different 
signal-to-noise ratios.

73
Chen, W7AY

Some quick references (you can find many more using Google):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_distribution
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/BivariateNormalDistribution.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rician_fading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_distribution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem
http://homepage.mac.com/chen/w7ay/cocoaPath/Contents/technical.html

If you have access to IEEE Transactions (libraries or if you are an IEEE 
member) I highly recommend reading the Watterson paper that I referenced in the 
cocoaPath site.

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Wes Stewart]

During the 2009 ARRL Field Day I was working from home on emergency power.  I 
had cobbled together a 6-meter preamp for the K3 and decided to take a listen.  
I don't have a 6-meter antenna so I was using my paralleled wire 40-80 meter 
inverted V with almost 200' of RG214.

Two of the local clubs do FD from the cool pines on a 9,000+ feet ASL mountain 
NE of the Tucson valley.  One of them was hogging 50.125 on SSB and needless to 
say was quite strong and quite broad. I worked a few of the louder Es stations 
that were coming through and then tuned down below the loudmouth and heard a 
weak CQ on CW.  It was JL8GFB.  So I called and worked him.

An hour and ten minutes later, I worked JA7WSZ.  So the band was open to JA for 
over an hour and a lot of people missed it because they were on SSB and not 
tuning.

Wes  N7WS

--- On Tue, 7/6/10, Jim Brown  wrote:

6M truly is a band that allows you to have a lot of fun with a modest 
antenna when it's open. That's why it's called the magic band. 

73, Jim K9YC



  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Jim Brown]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 16:16:29 +, The Smiths wrote:

>Now, this has become an argument.

That happens when some of the people talking don't know what they're 
talking about. Tom (JI), Tom (RC), Paul, Joe, and Guy know what they're 
talking about. They not only have the experience, they understand the 
physics. There is more to this than some folks understand. I urge them 
to go back and study my most early in this thread. 

Pete asks, 

>Isn't the whole point of diversity reception in the K3
>that the receivers **are** synchronized to the same clock?

That puts them on VERY nearly the same frequency, but the RF inputs to 
the two RXs are from different antennas. Think about what W8JI has said, 
which is absolutely correct -- that is, to be effective in DIVERSITY 
mode, antennas must be widely separated. WHY?  Because MOST fading is 
the result of cancellations between a direct wave and a reflected wave 
arriving at some particular point. This is EXACTLY the same as picket-
fencing on VHF and UHF that we hear when we or the other station is 
mobile, or when there is a reflection from an airplane completing the 
path. When the signal peaks, the two delay between the two signals are 
some multiple of wavelengths so that they are precisely in phase AT THAT 
FREQUENCY. At some other frequency, they will be some degree of out of 
phase, and for some delay they will be 180 degrees out of phase. That 
fading is periodic, and is wavelength and frequency dependent. That's 
why it's fast at VHF/UHF, and MUCH slower on 160M -- indeed, that's what 
we're hearing when there's LONG, DEEP QSB on 160M. 

Diversity helps this by having two RXs listening to two antenna that are 
SPATIALLY separated from each other, so that when the null is at one 
antenna, the peak is more likely to be at the other (or, with less 
separation, the null is not so deep). But it is the TIME DIFFERENCE 
between these antennas, plus the delay in the feedlines of the two 
antennas, that produces the time offset between the two signals. And 
that time offset produces a phase difference that depends on the time 
and frequency. It is the relation of the time and frequency to phase 
shift that produces the ROTATION that several guys have talked about. 
That's the swimmy sound you hear in the headphones in diversity mode 
with widely separated antennas. 

73, Jim Brown K9YC 


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K3 Utility

[W2XB]

I got the same message when i was using wrong comport. I have the navigator
interface connected to the K3 and it shows two comports for "PPT and Cat".
It was set on the wrong comport. Don't ask me how the heck it changed, but
it did. Switched comports and i was in bizzness.

Don...w2xb
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Elecraft-K3-Utility-tp5260211p5261300.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Jim Brown]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:53:44 -0400, David leDuc wrote:

> I am wondering what kind of antennas you are using? I am
>using a 3 element SteppIr and am in  FN42

About a year ago, I put a 3-el SteppIR with 6M element on a tower. 
Before that I worked a lot of 6M DX with my K3 by loading my 40M 
dipole. I made at least a half dozen QSOs from my QTH near San 
Francisco to the east coast, and worked several KH6. The SteppIR, of 
course, works better. :) 

6M truly is a band that allows you to have a lot of fun with a modest 
antenna when it's open. That's why it's called the magic band. 

73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[The Smiths]

If the Silicone Police didn't interfere, this feature that has already been 
programmed and ready for implementation could be turned on and this discussion 
would be over.
Some times it's just easier to let a feature go that others don't see the use 
for instead of policing how others use their radios.  This is NOT a feature 
that would affect your operation if it were made available.

I know that Lyle sees this as being the case, as he's already said exactly what 
I just did.  However, what disappoints me more is the fact that Joe, you didn't 
even bother to try it out like I asked you too...  You're mind is just made up 
before you've seen what it actually does on some weak signals.
There is more than just myself out here that don't have the perfect Diversity 
antenna set up.  Many people in small QTH's have exactally what I have for a 
set up, and this feature would help them out greatly.  You've already heard 
from others that have their ideas on how to use this feature too.

Yes, you're right, If I wanted to operate in Dual receive mode and track my 
VFO's together then make sure antennas were set up the way that they need to 
be, adjust all the other features, make sure the Width is set together... Or, I 
could just turn on the Mixer!

Now, this has become an argument.  At this point we should STOP talking about 
this.. We're agreeing at the same time we're arguingEnough said.

  
_
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your 
inbox.
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[Elecraft] To Lew-K6LMP & 6M.

[JIM DAVIS]

Lew,

There are exceptions to the rules concerning 6m FM transmissions and we're one 
of them!

Here in the Eastbay area I sometimes use a local repeater on 52.900/.400 
(pl:144.8hz.). I'm 
located in Concord which is approximately 23 (airline) miles from the repeater 
on "Patterson Pass" 
slightly east of Livermore. Under normal conditions that obviously would'nt be 
a problem on 6m FM, 
but here IT IS!!! We have (2) mountains between us and the repeater, Mt. Diablo 
which is @ 3749 
feet and the adjacent sister mountain know as "North Peak" which is right next 
to Diablo and right 
in our path to the machine. The ONLY WAY that we can access that box is to us 
"HORIZONTAL 
POLARIZATION"!!! We'd tried MANY other "vertical ant. schemes and NONE of them 
worked, even using 
vertical polarized multi-element yagis!

With the 5 element "Cushcraft" yagi on 6m @ about 22ft high we work into the 
box very well on a 
regular basis (HORIZONTALLY POLARIZED)!!!

Regards,

Jim/nn6ee

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[The Smiths]

If the Silicone Police didn't interfere, this feature that has already been 
programmed and ready for implementation could be turned on and this discussion 
would be over.
Some times it's just easier to let a feature go that others don't see the use 
for instead of policing how others use their radios.  This is NOT a feature 
that would affect your operation if it were made available.

I know that Lyle sees this as being the case, as he's already said exactly what 
I just did.  However, what disappoints me more is the fact that Joe, you didn't 
even bother to try it out like I asked you too...  You're mind is just made up 
before you've seen what it actually does on some weak signals.
There is more than just myself out here that don't have the perfect Diversity 
antenna set up.  Many people in small QTH's have exactally what I have for a 
set up, and this feature would help them out greatly.  You've already heard 
from others that have their ideas on how to use this feature too.

Yes, you're right, If I wanted to operate in Dual receive mode and track my 
VFO's together then make sure antennas were set up the way that they need to 
be, adjust all the other features, make sure the Width is set together... Or, I 
could just turn on the Mixer!

Now, this has become an argument.  At this point we should STOP talking about 
this.. We're agreeing at the same time we're arguingEnough said.

 
> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:17:59 -0400
> From: li...@subich.com
> To: notforc...@hotmail.com
> CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question
> 
> 
> > For me, the need for the audio mixer is not to crush the stereo XY,
> > but more to let me receive while in diversity mode BOTH of my
> > antennas at the same time, and let the mixer route my audio to both
> > headsets so as I don't have to listen to it fall from one over
> > another.
> 
> In your case you don't have true diversity - you are not hearing the 
> same signal on both receivers. You could achieve the result you seek
> simply by using the dual receive mode and locking the two VFOs on
> the same frequency. Again, it does not require any programming
> time and does not create the possibility for operator error in
> diversity.
> 
> 73,
> 
> ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> On 7/5/2010 11:57 PM, The Smiths wrote:
> >
> > Okay Joe,
> >
> >
> >
> > Your point is very well taken.. I understand what you are saying very
> > clearly. I have the scope, and I've set it to look at phase between
> > the two channels. I guess I need to clarify something. When I'm in
> > diversity mode I don't seem to have both signals on both antennas at
> > the same time.
> >
> > This is where we are having a problem communicating. I'm not going
> > to disagree with your theory that the signals WOULD cancel out the
> > stereo imaging if I were to push one phase onto the other. I believe
> > this is true, and I know it for fact.
> >
> >
> >
> > However, where I am having an issue is when my poor receiving
> > Vertical antenna is NOT receiving a signal my Well receiving Horz
> > antenna is, and then Some times reverse. I would like to be able to
> > "mix" the main onto the sub, and the sub onto the main's earphone
> >
> >
> >
> > For me, the need for the audio mixer is not to crush the stereo XY,
> > but more to let me receive while in diversity mode BOTH of my
> > antennas at the same time, and let the mixer route my audio to both
> > headsets so as I don't have to listen to it fall from one over
> > another.
> >
> > Admittedly, I don't have the best "diversity" set up here at my QTH,
> > so for me it's more important that I keep a constant signal in both
> > ears rather than one at a time.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now, just for the sake of it, I would like you to tune to a signal
> > that you are having the phasing sound with in diversity mode. Then,
> > go to the utility and enter in !BEFF; in the terminal window. I
> > would then like you to email me back and let me know that you didn't
> > hear BOTH of your antennas at the same time, in both ears. I would be
> > interested to know if you get NO signal at all from the same very
> > station you were just listening to in both ears. Or even a reduced
> > signal level. From my experience I've never had a signal cancel on
> > me, I've only had it double in loudness. I'm sorry, I know this goes
> > against what we both agree on when it comes to XY phase, but it's
> > just the way it is. Do it for yourself and stop thinking theory.. Try
> > reality. (I don't mean that as an insult, but rather a practical
> > challenge.)
> >
> >
> >
> > Again, even if this was the worst idea, it's still not going to
> > affect YOUR rig if you never turn it on. This isn't an argument.. I
> > was merely backing up the reasoning that the other person made the
> > request. So, other than your return email to me after you've
> > completed my test, can we PLEASE end this thread? Were beating a dead
> > horse.
> >
> > 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[The Smiths]

There is a balance control on your rig, you have to assign the SUB AF Gain in 
the Config menu to "balance" mode, but without the AB BA Mixer on too, you 
would only have audio in the left or the right.  With the mixing ON, AND 
balance control you can have mono audio in diversity mode with both speakers 
active.  

Obviously others are seeing my point now.  It can be a VERY useful tool, even 
for diversity mode.
 
> From: w...@w8ji.com
> To: g0...@g0afh.com; d...@w3fpr.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 10:22:45 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question
> 
> You are correct, that is not diversity mode but it has an advantage. We 
> often do that on 160 meters, where my antennas have very deep wide-area 
> nulls. We can lock one ear one direction and move the other ear to other 
> directions to scan for signals.
> 
> In this mode we often use different bandwidths and sometimes even have one 
> channel USB and the other LSB on CW with the USB channel offset lower in 
> frequency and the LSB channel offset higher. On SSB however it would 
> obviously be same sideband and always same frequency, so I understand the 
> utility in what you do.
> 
> The one thing I dislike about the K3 is the location of volume controls 
> while in that mode. I would prefer a fast "balance" or fader that is easy to 
> grab to instantly fade one channel out. I think this is really what you are 
> asking for.
> 
> I have this feature on my antenna and audio selector panel. Easy to grab. 
> Using dual audio gain controls is too cumbersome for this mode.
> 
> http://www.w8ji.com/images/Shack/RX-ant-select.jpg
> 
> 73 Tom
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "g0afh" 
> To: ; 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question
> 
> 
> > Hi Don,
> >
> > Imagine a system with good isolation between antennae such as you can
> > achieve with long yagi's at VHF/UHF. In my left ear I have the main RX
> > with stations from the UK, in my right ear I have the sub RX and
> > stations from Europe. I have a QRM from another G in my left ear when I
> > am called by a weak station from Europe which I hear in my right ear. As
> > the antennae have nice patterns I can barley hear the QRM from the G on
> > the antenna pointing at Europe. Now I want to mute or attenuate the
> > audio from the main RX and listen to the audio from the sub RX in both
> > ears. I know this will not be diversity any more but I'd quite like the
> > filter controls to continue to affect both receivers without having to
> > press BSET. After I have worked the station I need to return to
> > diversity mode listening to both receivers again.
> >
> > Diversity mode almost does what I want with both receivers locked
> > together, I just need to be able to select which audio I listen to at a
> > given time. I can easily make up a box to switch the audio but I would
> > have thought that what I want to do is not that uncommon.
> >
> > Hope this makes more sense.
> > 73
> > Ian
> > G0AFH
> >
> > Don Wilhelm wrote:
> >> Diversity reception requires hearing both the main and the subRX, each
> >> with their own antenna.
> >> I do not understand why one would want to listen to only the subRX when
> >> doing diversity receive - it nullifies any benefit of diversity.
> >> Can you explain further, maybe there is something I am missing.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Don W3FPR
> >>
> >> The Smiths wrote:
> >>
> >>> Lyle,
> >>>
> >>> As you know, this is NOT working in the Diversity mode as this person 
> >>> wants to use it. It is ONLY available with SUB mode at the time. 
> >>> Perhaps you can Stress to Wayne that he should finally make it available 
> >>> for use when in Diversity...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[George & Jan]

Config: Sub AF - set to BALANCE to have the SUB AF GAIN control to become a 
main/sub AF balance control when the sub receiver is turned on.

George
AI4VZ


--
Tom,

about the "balance" control - my K3 is set up like the way you describe. 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Paul Christensen]

Sorry, duplication of links.  The board before modification...

http://72.52.250.47/images/K3-AF-1.jpg

And after...

http://72.52.250.47/images/K3-AF-2.jpg

Paul, W9AC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Paul Christensen]

> The one thing I dislike about the K3 is the location of volume controls
> while in that mode. I would prefer a fast "balance" or fader that is easy
> to grab to instantly fade one channel out. I think this is really what you
> are asking for.

Tom,

You and others may want to consider this simple mod to the K3, that for me 
has made a big ergonomic difference in the operation of the K3's balance 
control during split operations.  The balance control is now on the longer 
inner concentric knob by keeping the AF and RF knobs together on the same 
control.

Keep in mind that this mod could be done through firmware and although I 
have not seen it as an optional menu feature, I may have overlooked it in 
past firmware updates.  So before anyone makes the hardware change, it would 
be a good idea to see if Lyle had previously added it in firmware:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2009-September/115677.html

Of course, a couple panel legends require new labels.  I used Brother 
P-Touch labels that blend nicely against the existing silk-screened legends. 
The link above references old URLs to photos of the modified PCB.  They are 
now at:

http://72.52.250.47/images/K3-AF-1.jpg

http://72.52.250.47/images/K3-AF-1.jpg

Paul, W9AC

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K3 Utility

[Paul Milward]

tried test commo and got this

K3 boot loader is ready for firmware load. COM3 RS-232 speed 38400 bps

I think this means rig/computer talking to each other but still unable to load




From: Mike 
Cc: Paul Milward ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 10:11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K3 Utility

  So try the "Test communications" button on the "Port" tab of the utility to 
see if 
the 'puter and K3 are in the mood.

73, Mike NF4L

On 7/6/2010 9:31 AM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
> This is the sort of response you might get when you have chosen a different
> COM port than the one your K3 is connected to.  The COM port you've chosen
> is echoing everything sent to it.  Maybe it's a modem.
>
> Dick, K6KR
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Paul Milward
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 6:11 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft K3 Utility
>
> Help
> I'm doing something wrong...and I don't know what it is
> I cannot get the K3 Utility to upload new "versions" to the rig. I also
> cannot upload macros. I was able to do both a few months ago when I first
> got the rig.
>
> !!!news flashI.m basically computer illiterate
>
> I get this when I attempt to upload "versions"
>
> 08:54:08 Ready
> 08:54:08 K3 bootloader is ready for MCU firmware load. COM3 RS-232 speed
> 38400 bps
> 08:54:39 Sending firmware file hmcu0397.hex to MCU
> 08:54:39 Send MCU firmware failed at load address x0800
> 08:54:39 MCU firmware load failed
> 08:54:39 Clock "Close" to close this window
>
> tia es 73
> Paul, NU4C
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 > For me, the need for the audio mixer is not to crush the stereo XY,
 > but more to let me receive while in diversity mode BOTH of my
 > antennas at the same time, and let the mixer route my audio to both
 > headsets so as I don't have to listen to it fall from one over
 > another.

In your case you don't have true diversity - you are not hearing the 
same signal on both receivers.  You could achieve the result you seek
simply by using the dual receive mode and locking the two VFOs on
the same frequency.   Again, it does not require any programming
time and does not create the possibility for operator error in
diversity.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/5/2010 11:57 PM, The Smiths wrote:
>
> Okay Joe,
>
>
>
> Your point is very well taken.. I understand what you are saying very
> clearly.  I have the scope, and I've set it to look at phase between
> the two channels.  I guess I need to clarify something.  When I'm in
> diversity mode I don't seem to have both signals on both antennas at
> the same time.
>
> This is where we are having a problem communicating.  I'm not going
> to disagree with your theory that the signals WOULD cancel out the
> stereo imaging if I were to push one phase onto the other. I believe
> this is true, and I know it for fact.
>
>
>
> However, where I am having an issue is when my poor receiving
> Vertical antenna is NOT receiving a signal my Well receiving Horz
> antenna is, and then Some times reverse. I would like to be able to
> "mix" the main onto the sub, and the sub onto the main's earphone
>
>
>
> For me, the need for the audio mixer is not to crush the stereo XY,
> but more to let me receive while in diversity mode BOTH of my
> antennas at the same time, and let the mixer route my audio to both
> headsets so as I don't have to listen to it fall from one over
> another.
>
> Admittedly, I don't have the best "diversity" set up here at my QTH,
> so for me it's more important that I keep a constant signal in both
> ears rather than one at a time.
>
>
>
> Now, just for the sake of it, I would like you to tune to a signal
> that you are having the phasing sound with in diversity mode. Then,
> go to the utility and enter in !BEFF; in the terminal window.   I
> would then like you to email me back and let me know that you didn't
> hear BOTH of your antennas at the same time, in both ears. I would be
> interested to know if you get NO signal at all from the same very
> station you were just listening to in both ears. Or even a reduced
> signal level.  From my experience I've never had a signal cancel on
> me, I've only had it double in loudness.  I'm sorry, I know this goes
> against what we both agree on when it comes to XY phase, but it's
> just the way it is. Do it for yourself and stop thinking theory.. Try
> reality. (I don't mean that as an insult, but rather a practical
> challenge.)
>
>
>
> Again, even if this was the worst idea, it's still not going to
> affect YOUR rig if you never turn it on.  This isn't an argument.. I
> was merely backing up the reasoning that the other person made the
> request.  So, other than your return email to me after you've
> completed my test, can we PLEASE end this thread? Were beating a dead
> horse.
>
>  _
> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts
> with Hotmail.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[ON4WIX]

Tom,

about the "balance" control - my K3 is set up like the way you describe. The 
inner knob (AF) controls the volume while the outer knob (SUB) determines 
the balance between main and sub receivers. When placed totally CCW, I have 
only the main RX in my phones. Fully CW yields only sub RX audio. I usually 
have it placed in the center position so I hear both RXs at equal volume. I 
can't remember how I set it up (it was added in an early firmware update) 
but I'm sure someone will post the answer here.

73
Glenn ON4WIX / OR4W
- Original Message - 
From: "W8JI Tom" 
To: "g0afh" ; ; 
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question


> You are correct, that is not diversity mode but it has an advantage. We
> often do that on 160 meters, where my antennas have very deep wide-area
> nulls. We can lock one ear one direction and move the other ear to other
> directions to scan for signals.
>
> In this mode we often use different bandwidths and sometimes even have one
> channel USB and the other LSB on CW with the USB channel offset lower in
> frequency and the LSB channel offset higher.  On SSB however it would
> obviously be same sideband and always same frequency, so I understand the
> utility in what you do.
>
> The one thing I dislike about the K3 is the location of volume controls
> while in that mode. I would prefer a fast "balance" or fader that is easy 
> to
> grab to instantly fade one channel out. I think this is really what you 
> are
> asking for.
>
> I have this feature on my antenna and audio selector panel. Easy to grab.
> Using dual audio gain controls is too cumbersome for this mode.
>
> http://www.w8ji.com/images/Shack/RX-ant-select.jpg
>
> 73 Tom
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "g0afh" 
> To: ; 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question
>
>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> Imagine a system with good isolation between antennae such as you can
>> achieve with long yagi's at VHF/UHF. In my left ear I have the main RX
>> with stations from the UK, in my right ear I have the sub RX and
>> stations from Europe. I have a QRM from another G in my left ear when I
>> am called by a weak station from Europe which I hear in my right ear. As
>> the antennae have nice patterns I can barley hear the QRM from the G on
>> the antenna pointing at Europe. Now I want to mute or attenuate the
>> audio from the main RX and listen to the audio from the sub RX in both
>> ears. I know this will not be diversity any more but I'd quite like the
>> filter controls to continue to affect both receivers without having to
>> press BSET. After I have worked the station I need to return to
>> diversity mode listening to both receivers again.
>>
>> Diversity mode almost does what I want with both receivers locked
>> together, I just need to be able to select which audio I listen to at a
>> given time. I can easily make up a box to switch the audio but I would
>> have thought that what I want to do is not that uncommon.
>>
>> Hope this makes more sense.
>> 73
>> Ian
>> G0AFH
>>
>> Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>> Diversity reception requires hearing both the main and the subRX, each
>>> with their own antenna.
>>> I do not understand why one would want to listen to only the subRX when
>>> doing diversity receive - it nullifies any benefit of diversity.
>>> Can you explain further, maybe there is something I am missing.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> The Smiths wrote:
>>>
 Lyle,

 As you know, this is NOT working in the Diversity mode as this person
 wants to use it.  It is ONLY available with SUB mode at the time.
 Perhaps you can Stress to Wayne that he should finally make it 
 available
 for use when in Diversity...




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>>>
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Help: 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[K5RC]

After using the diversity feature with two receiving arrays for the last
season on 160 and 80, I am with Joe 100% on this one. The fades and peaks I
experience in the two ears are summed in the brain far more effectively than
I would have imagined. On 80 meters (our RX arrays are 800' separated), we
actually hear different stations in each ear coming over different paths.
The really motivated operators have trained themselves to take advantage of
this "pileup separation filter."

 

You would have to add a computer programmed for Laplace Transforms to gain
the summing effect you desire. The audio mixer is not capable of summing
peaks and cancelling nulls.

 

The K3 diversity feature is unique and requires a paradigm shift when you
first start using it. It is like hearing surround-sound for the first time
and trying to correlate the spatial positions of the various musical
instruments. After a while, you can just relax and enjoy the effect without
dwelling on the technology.

 

Tom Taormina, K5RC

Virginia City NV

Home of W7RN and K7RC

  http://k5rc.cc   FOC 1760

"Communication is the problem to the answer" - 10cc

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[W8JI Tom]

You are correct, that is not diversity mode but it has an advantage. We 
often do that on 160 meters, where my antennas have very deep wide-area 
nulls. We can lock one ear one direction and move the other ear to other 
directions to scan for signals.

In this mode we often use different bandwidths and sometimes even have one 
channel USB and the other LSB on CW with the USB channel offset lower in 
frequency and the LSB channel offset higher.  On SSB however it would 
obviously be same sideband and always same frequency, so I understand the 
utility in what you do.

The one thing I dislike about the K3 is the location of volume controls 
while in that mode. I would prefer a fast "balance" or fader that is easy to 
grab to instantly fade one channel out. I think this is really what you are 
asking for.

I have this feature on my antenna and audio selector panel. Easy to grab. 
Using dual audio gain controls is too cumbersome for this mode.

http://www.w8ji.com/images/Shack/RX-ant-select.jpg

73 Tom

- Original Message - 
From: "g0afh" 
To: ; 
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question


> Hi Don,
>
> Imagine a system with good isolation between antennae such as you can
> achieve with long yagi's at VHF/UHF. In my left ear I have the main RX
> with stations from the UK, in my right ear I have the sub RX and
> stations from Europe. I have a QRM from another G in my left ear when I
> am called by a weak station from Europe which I hear in my right ear. As
> the antennae have nice patterns I can barley hear the QRM from the G on
> the antenna pointing at Europe. Now I want to mute or attenuate the
> audio from the main RX and listen to the audio from the sub RX in both
> ears. I know this will not be diversity any more but I'd quite like the
> filter controls to continue to affect both receivers without having to
> press BSET. After I have worked the station I need to return to
> diversity mode listening to both receivers again.
>
> Diversity mode almost does what I want with both receivers locked
> together, I just need to be able to select which audio I listen to at a
> given time. I can easily make up a box to switch the audio but I would
> have thought that what I want to do is not that uncommon.
>
> Hope this makes more sense.
> 73
> Ian
> G0AFH
>
> Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Diversity reception requires hearing both the main and the subRX, each
>> with their own antenna.
>> I do not understand why one would want to listen to only the subRX when
>> doing diversity receive - it nullifies any benefit of diversity.
>> Can you explain further, maybe there is something I am missing.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> The Smiths wrote:
>>
>>> Lyle,
>>>
>>> As you know, this is NOT working in the Diversity mode as this person 
>>> wants to use it.  It is ONLY available with SUB mode at the time. 
>>> Perhaps you can Stress to Wayne that he should finally make it available 
>>> for use when in Diversity...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K3 Utility

[Mike]

  So try the "Test communications" button on the "Port" tab of the utility to 
see if 
the 'puter and K3 are in the mood.

73, Mike NF4L

On 7/6/2010 9:31 AM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
> This is the sort of response you might get when you have chosen a different
> COM port than the one your K3 is connected to.  The COM port you've chosen
> is echoing everything sent to it.  Maybe it's a modem.
>
> Dick, K6KR
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Paul Milward
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 6:11 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft K3 Utility
>
> Help
> I'm doing something wrong...and I don't know what it is
> I cannot get the K3 Utility to upload new "versions" to the rig. I also
> cannot upload macros. I was able to do both a few months ago when I first
> got the rig.
>
> !!!news flashI.m basically computer illiterate
>
> I get this when I attempt to upload "versions"
>
> 08:54:08 Ready
> 08:54:08 K3 bootloader is ready for MCU firmware load. COM3 RS-232 speed
> 38400 bps
> 08:54:39 Sending firmware file hmcu0397.hex to MCU
> 08:54:39 Send MCU firmware failed at load address x0800
> 08:54:39 MCU firmware load failed
> 08:54:39 Clock "Close" to close this window
>
> tia es 73
> Paul, NU4C
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Re: [Elecraft] Reduced-height bail

[Don Wilhelm]

The K3 bail is 6 3/8 inches between the mounting feet (not the centers), 
and the K2 bail is not quite 5 inches.
So they are not interchangeable - the length is different.
Now, if one wanted to drill new holes in the K3 bottom cover, I guess 
the K2 bail could be made to fit - but I would not want to do that to 
mine.  I have a tablesaw and the ability to make a wedge of wood most 
any height I want - so determine what height you want and find a friend 
who has a woodworking shop - sand the wedge block and finish it - put 
nonslip material on the top and bottom and you are done.

Caution: cutting a wedge block on a tablesaw is not a trivial exercise, 
and can be a dangerous operation - don't try it if you are not 
experienced at using the proper safety procedures.  Do not try to cut a 
small block without appropriate guides and pushsticks (which most do not 
have available).  Cut a long piece and then trim it to length after the 
wedge is shaped.  Be safe and retain all your fingers.

73,
Don W3FPR

ab2tc wrote:
> I totally agree. I don't think we have gotten a definitive answer as to
> whether the K2 bail will fit on the K3. I was under the impression that it
> does not. 
>
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Ken Roberson]

Dave,

Antenna here is M2 5 ele 18 ft boom @ 50 ft, feedline is
LMR-600 ( 1 DB loss per 100 FT ) maybe less at 50mhz.
We had a few nice opening here in Oklahoma and I have
worked 25 DXCC and abt 13 are new .
Most were on CW running about 400 Watts.
The K3 and the preamp make a nice 6m rig.
73 Good dxing 
Ken K5DNL

-

--- On Tue, 7/6/10, David leDuc  wrote:

> From: David leDuc 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 8:53 AM
> I know this is not a 6 meter
> discussion group but I do have a K3.
> I am hearing a lot of people on 6 meters working DX which I
> cannot hear,
> also calling CQDX. I am wondering what kind of antennas you
> are using? I am
> using a 3 element SteppIr and am in  FN42
> 
> Dave N1IX
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[David leDuc]

I know this is not a 6 meter discussion group but I do have a K3.
I am hearing a lot of people on 6 meters working DX which I cannot hear,
also calling CQDX. I am wondering what kind of antennas you are using? I am
using a 3 element SteppIr and am in  FN42

Dave N1IX

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[N2TK, Tony]

Hi Sandy,
Sometime it is a courtesy when someone drops their call once when you send
"test" or "V's" to let you know that they hear you in case you are wondering
if you are transmitting or getting out. Sometimes they drop their call once
and also send their state so that you know about the propagation. Sometimes
they drop their call once in case you want a QSO or are just testing.  

Not sure I follow what is the problem with someone sending their call once?
If someone is purposely calling you and signals are good, why repeat the
call more than once? 

I enjoy both rag-chewing and contesting. Sometimes the band conditions don't
allow rag-chewing. At the moment I am trying to work FP on 6M. With the QSB
I am getting only snippets of his call. I would be happy just to get a
signal report exchange.

73,
N2TK, Tony



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Sandy
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 5:14 PM
To: WILLIS COOKE; Jim Brown; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

This phenomenon is not restricted to 6 meters!  The same thing happens on HF

as well: people looking for "club" numbers, grid squares, counties,etc., 
etc.  The whole "contest" mentality has corrupted all the "old" and "polite"

methods of establishing a QSO when there are no contests at all!  Also the 
"Elmers" of today, aided and abetted by the ARRL, have all but completely 
"eliminated" the normal calling protocols of yesteryear.  It isn't at all 
"unusual" to tune up and send a few "V's"  and have someone just drop their 
callsign on you just ONCE!  As I now an "old timer" in age and amateur 
radio, I "wonder" when this happens.  Is this chap calling me?  Is he just 
testing?  Even if you send "QRZ? de W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign 
sent ONCE!  Also people sending: "DE W4ABC" instead of calling "CQ". 
"Newer" QRPers answering a CQ call just sending their callsign just ONCE! 
There isn't that "all important" OPERATING section still published in the 
"Handbook"!  Guess the folks at ARRL thought they could make a few extra 
bucks by publishing a special book dealing with that subject that obviously 
everyone ISN"T buying!
I enjoy contests on CW doing QRP and usually these are limited to a small 
segment of the CW sub-band, and they don't seem to be on every weekend.  6 
meters used to be a  really "fun" band back in the "AM" phone days, but I 
didn't figure it would be degraded to nothing but "hello, goodbye" type 
contacts.

Sorry for this, guess I sound like a grouchy "old fart" but where has all 
the politeness gone?

73,

Sandy W5TVW

- Original Message - 
From: "WILLIS COOKE" 
To: "Jim Brown" ; 
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW


I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are exchanged 
leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like to exchange names

and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with contests. I don't need more on

six meters or digital contacts. I know I am out of step with the avant 
guarde, but I don't enjoy six meters much because of these quick exchanges.
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
K5EWJ





From: Jim Brown 
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 10:41:55 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] 6M CW

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Ken McGuire wrote:

>I was frustrated at how slow the chats were on SSB (FM was even worse) -
>it seemed like they were wasting a perfectly good band opening ragchewing

Yep. Same here. Often, an opening on any given path may be there only long
enough to exchange the grid and report. It's quite frustrating to wait to
call a station that was S9, then S7, then S5, then S3, then fumes, while
the time is filled with innanity.

>When I turned down to the CW portion of the band, it almost sounded like
>a CW contest weekend.

Yes. I've gotten to the point that I spend most of my 6M efforts on CW,
only tuning up to the SSB portion of the band when nothing is happening on
CW. And thanks in part to the proliferation of K3s, there is a lot more CW
activity than there was only 5 years ago.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Reduced-height bail

[ab2tc]

I totally agree. I don't think we have gotten a definitive answer as to
whether the K2 bail will fit on the K3. I was under the impression that it
does not. To another poster, no, I haven't gotten my habit from Yaesu
radios, but rather the ICOM-718 with which I started my second "career" as a
ham. The 1 1/2" (1 x 2 wood!) feels just right.

AB2TC - Knut


Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
> 
> I would respectfully suggest that this is exactly what this list 
> *should* be used for - hunting up answers *about Elecraft products* when 
> your own efforts have not succeeded.  As for this specific topic, 
> ergonomics are important, particularly when you're talking contesting.  
> My wrist gets a real crick in it because of the height of the dial on 
> the K3.  Others may differ, and maybe I will myself in time, but right 
> now I'm hunting for just the right piece of wood.
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K3 Utility

[Dick Dievendorff]

This is the sort of response you might get when you have chosen a different
COM port than the one your K3 is connected to.  The COM port you've chosen
is echoing everything sent to it.  Maybe it's a modem.

Dick, K6KR


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Paul Milward
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 6:11 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft K3 Utility

Help
I'm doing something wrong...and I don't know what it is
I cannot get the K3 Utility to upload new "versions" to the rig. I also
cannot upload macros. I was able to do both a few months ago when I first
got the rig. 

!!!news flashI.m basically computer illiterate

I get this when I attempt to upload "versions"

08:54:08 Ready
08:54:08 K3 bootloader is ready for MCU firmware load. COM3 RS-232 speed
38400 bps
08:54:39 Sending firmware file hmcu0397.hex to MCU
08:54:39 Send MCU firmware failed at load address x0800
08:54:39 MCU firmware load failed
08:54:39 Clock "Close" to close this window

tia es 73
Paul, NU4C
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

>Even if you send "QRZ? de W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign
>sent ONCE!

This is standard contesting procedure.  Sending your call more than
once in clear conditions could be wasting time for those who copy CW
well.  And in a pile up sending your call the second time could be
over the top of the DX and interfering with the DX sending only once
the call of the station he actually copied.  This tends to make the
case that sending once is more polite if folks are waiting. Crisp one
by one by one by one, etc, clears pileups quicker if everyone sends
once to good operators in good conditions.

While you may have your point, reversing the austere frugality of a
single call reply habit when the distant station has no way of knowing
your state of mine, may simply be out of reach as a social goal.  Time
marches on and customs change.  And I can only imagine the number of
hams who are NOT looking to an ARRL publication to direct ham
etiquette in day-to-day communications, however positive or negative
one may feel about the ARRL.

What's happening on 6m is really very interesting.  All the more so
because my already paid for K3 has 6m on it that isn't a joke.  And
because I decided to run 1 1/4 inch hardline out to and up the tower,
which I can switch between the big tribander and 6 and 2.

For long time VHF afficionados, this infusion of new activity from
previously HF confined hams has to be a lot of fun.

73, Guy.
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[Elecraft] Elecraft K3 Utility

[Paul Milward]

Help
I'm doing something wrong...and I don't know what it is
I cannot get the K3 Utility to upload new "versions" to the rig. I also cannot 
upload macros. I was able to do both a few months ago when I first got the rig. 

!!!news flashI.m basically computer illiterate

I get this when I attempt to upload "versions"

08:54:08 Ready
08:54:08 K3 bootloader is ready for MCU firmware load. COM3 RS-232 speed 38400 
bps
08:54:39 Sending firmware file hmcu0397.hex to MCU
08:54:39 Send MCU firmware failed at load address x0800
08:54:39 MCU firmware load failed
08:54:39 Clock "Close" to close this window

tia es 73
Paul, NU4C
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Re: [Elecraft] A few questions before ordering the K2 kit...

[lstavenhagen]

Well the K2 is still a really capable rig, so by all means you won't
"outgrow" it for a long time if it meets your needs. The RX still
outperforms most of the other rigs on the market, even a lot of the high end
ones, hi hi. 

Among other things I bought my K3 for the digital modes. But almost as soon
as I was done building the connecting cables, I lost interest in them and
went back to CW-only, where I've been since 1974 anyway, hi hi. So I
actually don't really need my K3 (tho it's probably the most capable CW rig
on the planet hi hi).

But the K2 is also capable for SSB and digital modes with the SSB option
installed. So if you eventually plan to use those modes, you can still do so
with the K2 by adding that option.

My K2 worked out-of-the-box with no problems after I was done with it and I
was a first-time builder. And the build is one of the funnest things you'll
ever do in ham radio because it's such a well-done kit. 

So I think you'll be fine either way.

73,
LS
W5QD
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Sent from the [K2] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 issue

[Don Wilhelm]

David,

That is the usual symptom when D16 and D17 in the KPA100 wattmeter have 
been damaged.  They can be damaged by static from snow, wind, rain or 
lightning coming in on the antenna feedline.  The best prevention is to 
disconnect the antenna when not in use - one of the inexpensive antenna 
switches can be used to quickly switch the K2 to a dummy load when not 
in use.

73,
Don W3FPR

David Douglass wrote:
> My K2/100 seems to have developed an issue.
>
> On key down I seem to be getting maximum power output, irrespective of where 
> the power control is set. I am getting no power output indication at all on 
> the inbuilt power meter in the K2!
>
> When I press tune, the K2 tells me I have 9.9:1 SWR and only a few watts of 
> output, but my external meter tells me I have full output (well over 100w, 
> and a 1:1 SWR). This happens irrespective of whether I use a dummy load or 
> antenna. The K2 seems to work normally with the KPA100 disconnected, and RX 
> is fine.
>
> I'm guessing I have a issue with the SWR/power output sensing in the KPA100, 
> but would apreciate some help on what components to check.
>
> The K2/100 has been working fine to this point.
>
>   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[Phil & Debbie Salas]

"...However, where I am having an issue is when my poor receiving Vertical 
antenna is NOT receiving a signal my Well receiving Horz antenna is, and 
then Some times reverse. I would like to be able to "mix" the main onto the 
sub, and the sub onto the main's earphone.."

The only way this would work is to always mute the weaker side, and always 
feed the strong side into both headphones.  As stated by several others 
here, true combining would not work because of the varying phase difference 
between the main and diversity inputs.

We implemented combining for diversity digital (QAM) receivers back in my 
microwave days at Rockwell.  The IF combiner continuously rotated the phase 
of the diversity receiver so as to keep the combined amplitude at a maximum. 
This was not a trivial process.  And, of course, both receivers were fed 
with the same local oscillator.  For analog receivers, we used a simple A/B 
diversity switch where we switched to the stronger side when the signal we 
were on was getting close to threshold and the other side had a better S/N. 
Couldn't do this with digital signals since a simple switch would cause a 
frame hit/re-sync.  So the IF combiner was used for diversity reception in 
our digital radios.

Phil - AD5X 

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Re: [Elecraft] Reduced-height bail

[Pete Smith]

I would respectfully suggest that this is exactly what this list 
*should* be used for - hunting up answers *about Elecraft products* when 
your own efforts have not succeeded.  As for this specific topic, 
ergonomics are important, particularly when you're talking contesting.  
My wrist gets a real crick in it because of the height of the dial on 
the K3.  Others may differ, and maybe I will myself in time, but right 
now I'm hunting for just the right piece of wood.

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


On 7/5/2010 6:58 PM, ussv dharma wrote:
> Come on people...get real.but then  the power cord on my k3 is too long 
> fro the distance from the k3 to the 12 vdc supply...guess maybe an option on 
> power cord length..
>
> Come on get real and let this list do what it is intended for.
>
>
> If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! 
> Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm  AFA9SM USSV DHARMA 
>
>
> --- On Mon, 7/5/10, Jim Wiley  wrote:
>
>
>> From: Jim Wiley
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reduced-height bail
>> To: n...@contesting.com
>> Cc: "Elecraft List"
>> Date: Monday, July 5, 2010, 12:13 AM
>>
>> Pete -
>>
>>
>> Yes, Elecraft does offer a 1.5" high tilt-bail (they call
>> it a
>> tilt-stand).  Part number ETS15.  I purchased one
>> of these for use with
>> my K2,  and another for the KPA100 / KAT100
>> combination that I  built
>> into a EC2 cabinet.  The regular 3" tilt-stand that
>> comes standard with
>> the K2 was too high for my liking. 
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, the new web site makes both the EC2 cabinet
>> and the
>> optional tilt stand somewhat hard to find.  They are
>> found on the K2 
>> page, under "K2 and accessory pricing".You
>> will have to search
>> around a bit, but they are there.  The current price
>> for the ETS15 is
>> 14.95.  Seems a bit high for a piece of bent wire, but
>> I guess you pays
>> your money and takes your choice.  This is one area
>> where Elecraft could
>> do it's customers a favor by offering a trade-in price,
>> similar to what
>> is sometimes offered for board upgrades.
>>
>>
>> - Jim, KL7CC
>>
>>
>> Pete Smith wrote:
>>  
>>> Recently I read something on this list about a
>>>
>> reduced-height bail for
>>  
>>> the K2.
>>>
>>> I think my K3 would be a bit easier to use if the
>>>
>> height of the bail
>>  
>>> were reduced about in half, but so far as I can tell
>>>
>> Elecraft doesn't
>>  
>>> offer sch an option.  Is there an after-market
>>>
>> supplier?
>>  
>>>
>>>
>> __
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>>
>>  
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[John Ragle]

 When I started ham radio, there were just two modes in use: CW and 
AM phone. RTTY certainly existed commercially, but I can not recall 
anyone mentioning that mode in those long-ago times. Moreover, 
transceivers didn't exist...one had a transmitter, a receiver, and an 
antenna change-over relay. QSK didn't exist. The "bug" was around, and 
some operators had a marvelous "banana-boat" swing. Few operators had 
rotatable yagis. The licensing structure demanded at least 13 wpm 
proficiency.

 Nowadays things are very different. [An attempt to survey the hobby 
is given in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio.] This list 
focuses on a particular kind of hardware...a self-contained, 10 to 100 
watt transceiver with full qsk on cw, as well as an astonishing range of 
other capabilities. The personal computer has appeared on the scene, 
making many new digital modes accessible. CW and WSJT have become the 
prime weak signal modes, with QSK CW providing very fast, 
highly-efficient, turn-around type QSOs. A single dit or two during a CQ 
establishes a link. On HF, PSK or RTTY provide very leisurely media for 
chatting -- one's attention can wander a bit, perhaps even to sipping 
coffee (tea for the Brits). When conditions are good enough, SSB works 
well for casual talk or for hello-goodbye exchanges.

 All this obtains from rigs like the K3 or a few others, together 
with the PC. Virtually unlimited frequency mobility, band coverage, 
stability, full break-in, digital modes, and so forth are available. 
There are still lids and careless operators. People still rag-chew on 
the calling frequencies. Recently I waited patiently for 20 minutes 
hoping a pair of W7 stations in western Washington on 6 meters would 
take a break in their rag-chew, while they faded slowly in to S9 
strength and slowly out to the noise level here in FN32. ...but, by and 
large, operating techniques have changed to fit the available media. I 
think this is quite appropriate, and if someone wants to do a 
smash-and-grab QSO, I am content. When conditions are changing rapidly, 
this seems entirely reasonable. I hold against a philosophy that says 
"be reasonable, do it MY way!"

John Ragle-- W1ZI
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[Elecraft] (no subject)

[vtuff59795]

http://tranasri1984.yourpillsworld.net

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[Elecraft] (no subject)

[vtuff59795]

http://courcezy74.yourpillsworld.net

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Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

[GD0TEP]

This thread has been quite interesting

I respect the station that can sit and rag chew on CW, I've tried it on one
of the HF bands, and found it very demanding on the brain.

On 6m... If the band was open with more than one hop of SpE, I'll be chasing
new grid squares, or DXCC countries. I do it on single hop SpE as well, but
with more than one hop available, some real DX might also be available..

I think a lot of 'DXers' on 6m would be upset to hear a W7 on the band and
not be able to have a quick QSO... I sure would be...

That doesn't mean people can't be polite... I've heard and worked what I
consider to be good DX (more than one hop SpE) and the DX station insisted
on names as well as report... And, as he had a pile up, that's what he got
with every QSO... now that's not unfair, it's just what the 'DX' wanted.

In the large RSGB/IARU contest, even with the band going 'ding dong' I
always try to pass over GM or GA on each QSO... does this slow the rate
down...? maybe has it damaged to score? I don't think so, and we've won
the contest 10 times in the last 13 years...

Yesterdays DX from here was C56E, I've a short video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrCvY4OjZJ4

At the end of the day, it's a hobby... have fun, do what you enjoy... but
remember the rest of us out there... :-)

73,
Andy
http://gd0tep.com


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Brett Howard
Sent: 06 July 2010 06:12
To: Sandy
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW

Heck I guess I'll stop doing that...  I've just kinda learned from listening
to the bands.  I'm finally getting my speed up fast enough that actually
carrying on a QSO is possible.  At 8WPM your RST, Name, QTH, RIG and ANT is
a 30 to 40 minute conversation.  ;)  However at 13WPM I've been able to
actually have conversations with people about the K3 find out that they've
recently retired and what they used to do and well all sorts of fun stuff...
(I'm referring to a 40 minute conversation that I had on 40 last night...)  

Then heck I ran into a guy the other day who was only about 20 minutes bike
ride from here.  We ended up having a 1.6 hour or so QSO.  Both of our
brains were going to mush by the end as we were both working hard for it but
hey its fun!

I'm by no means an old salt at the age of 29 but I do try to be polite and
do find it fun to get into the longer QSO's via CW.  I often find that SSB
bores me for casual operating but I do find SSB interesting for contests.

But anyway just wanted to let you know that your post has hit home with
someone and I'll start sending my call a few times when answering a CQ...  I
usually figure that I want to try and get in there quick before their auto
repeat kicks in  Then if they need a fill we can always take care of
that later.  Guess I've been being rude all this time and had no idea.

Sorry...

~Brett (N7MG)

On Mon, 2010-07-05 at 16:13 -0500, Sandy wrote:
> This phenomenon is not restricted to 6 meters!  The same thing happens 
> on HF as well: people looking for "club" numbers, grid squares, 
> counties,etc., etc.  The whole "contest" mentality has corrupted all the
"old" and "polite"
> methods of establishing a QSO when there are no contests at all!  Also 
> the "Elmers" of today, aided and abetted by the ARRL, have all but 
> completely "eliminated" the normal calling protocols of yesteryear.  
> It isn't at all "unusual" to tune up and send a few "V's"  and have 
> someone just drop their callsign on you just ONCE!  As I now an "old 
> timer" in age and amateur radio, I "wonder" when this happens.  Is 
> this chap calling me?  Is he just testing?  Even if you send "QRZ? de 
> W5TVW K" you may just get a callsign sent ONCE!  Also people sending: "DE
W4ABC" instead of calling "CQ".
> "Newer" QRPers answering a CQ call just sending their callsign just ONCE! 
> There isn't that "all important" OPERATING section still published in 
> the "Handbook"!  Guess the folks at ARRL thought they could make a few 
> extra bucks by publishing a special book dealing with that subject 
> that obviously everyone ISN"T buying!
> I enjoy contests on CW doing QRP and usually these are limited to a 
> small segment of the CW sub-band, and they don't seem to be on every 
> weekend.  6 meters used to be a  really "fun" band back in the "AM" 
> phone days, but I didn't figure it would be degraded to nothing but 
> "hello, goodbye" type contacts.
> 
> Sorry for this, guess I sound like a grouchy "old fart" but where has 
> all the politeness gone?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Sandy W5TVW
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "WILLIS COOKE" 
> To: "Jim Brown" ; 
> 
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M CW
> 
> 
> I don't feel that way at all. A contact in which only grids are 
> exchanged leaves me with little satisfaction at all. I at least like 
> to exchange names and QTH. I get enough of the quicky QSOs with 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[GD0TEP]

Yes... this is something I'd like to see as well

In the RSGB/IARU 50mhz annual contest, the station here consists of 4 large
antenna systems and 4 receivers. It would be beneficial to me if I was able
to drop that down to 2 K3's!

73,
Andy
http://gd0tep.com


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of g0afh
Sent: 06 July 2010 08:26
To: d...@w3fpr.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

Hi Don,

Imagine a system with good isolation between antennae such as you can
achieve with long yagi's at VHF/UHF. In my left ear I have the main RX with
stations from the UK, in my right ear I have the sub RX and stations from
Europe. I have a QRM from another G in my left ear when I am called by a
weak station from Europe which I hear in my right ear. As the antennae have
nice patterns I can barley hear the QRM from the G on the antenna pointing
at Europe. Now I want to mute or attenuate the audio from the main RX and
listen to the audio from the sub RX in both ears. I know this will not be
diversity any more but I'd quite like the filter controls to continue to
affect both receivers without having to press BSET. After I have worked the
station I need to return to diversity mode listening to both receivers
again.

Diversity mode almost does what I want with both receivers locked together,
I just need to be able to select which audio I listen to at a given time. I
can easily make up a box to switch the audio but I would have thought that
what I want to do is not that uncommon.

Hope this makes more sense.
73
Ian
G0AFH

Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Diversity reception requires hearing both the main and the subRX, each 
> with their own antenna.
> I do not understand why one would want to listen to only the subRX 
> when doing diversity receive - it nullifies any benefit of diversity.
> Can you explain further, maybe there is something I am missing.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> The Smiths wrote:
>   
>> Lyle,
>>
>> As you know, this is NOT working in the Diversity mode as this person
wants to use it.  It is ONLY available with SUB mode at the time.  Perhaps
you can Stress to Wayne that he should finally make it available for use
when in Diversity...
>>  
>>   
>>
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio routing question

[g0afh]

Hi Don,

Imagine a system with good isolation between antennae such as you can 
achieve with long yagi's at VHF/UHF. In my left ear I have the main RX 
with stations from the UK, in my right ear I have the sub RX and 
stations from Europe. I have a QRM from another G in my left ear when I 
am called by a weak station from Europe which I hear in my right ear. As 
the antennae have nice patterns I can barley hear the QRM from the G on 
the antenna pointing at Europe. Now I want to mute or attenuate the 
audio from the main RX and listen to the audio from the sub RX in both 
ears. I know this will not be diversity any more but I'd quite like the 
filter controls to continue to affect both receivers without having to 
press BSET. After I have worked the station I need to return to 
diversity mode listening to both receivers again.

Diversity mode almost does what I want with both receivers locked 
together, I just need to be able to select which audio I listen to at a 
given time. I can easily make up a box to switch the audio but I would 
have thought that what I want to do is not that uncommon.

Hope this makes more sense.
73
Ian
G0AFH

Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Diversity reception requires hearing both the main and the subRX, each 
> with their own antenna.
> I do not understand why one would want to listen to only the subRX when 
> doing diversity receive - it nullifies any benefit of diversity.
> Can you explain further, maybe there is something I am missing.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> The Smiths wrote:
>   
>> Lyle,
>>
>> As you know, this is NOT working in the Diversity mode as this person wants 
>> to use it.  It is ONLY available with SUB mode at the time.  Perhaps you can 
>> Stress to Wayne that he should finally make it available for use when in 
>> Diversity...
>>  
>>   
>>
>> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>   
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