Re: [Elecraft] OFFLIST: Re: K4 delivery status

[Ray]

Software is NEVER complete……. Ask Microsoft !

WA6VAB Ray K3


From: Barry Baines via Elecraft
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 10:24 PM
To: David Gilbert
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] OFFLIST: Re: K4 delivery status

Hi Dave:

> On Aug 17, 2021, at 12:04 AM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm not missing any point other than your continued deflection with that Flex 
> wall of text, and I certainly know that software development takes time and 
> people.  My only point has been that Elecraft is shipping K4's without the 
> software that they at least implied already existed (they demo'd it!) and 
> that obviously other other (probably more important) efforts are taking 
> precedence over its completion.  Why do you keep acting like I have said 
> anything else??

Elecraft may have demoed an ‘alpha’ version of remote software but that doesn’t 
necessarily mean that it is ready for prime time.  I have no idea where they 
stand on their development work or where it stands in their priority list.  I 
suspect that they’re dealing with more critical priorities, like it or not.

I referenced the “Flex experience” because it seems to me that it a reflection 
of how product development has changed in the amateur radio industry.  No 
longer do manufacturers come out with a HF rig every few years with the latest 
features (that can’t be upgraded later).  Instead, they’re developing a new 
‘ecosystem’ that presumably will last for a number of years where new features 
are introduced as ’software updates’ rather than as hardware enhancements in 
the guise of a new model.  This approach suggests that the product will 
‘mature’ over time and that it may take a number of years to reach what was 
initially ‘promised’ under the vision that was announced when the product 
introduction was made.  It may also be the case that capabilities not announced 
upon product announcement may be introduced such as ‘MultiFlex” where two 
operators are sharing the same transceiver at the same time (but only one is 
transmitting at a given instant).  

SDR development in particular is not trivial requiring specialized skills and 
where resources may be constrained that will lengthen development time.  
Furthermore, under the adage of “the perfect is the enemy of the good’, 
hardware will be released with software embedded that may not provide even 
‘basic’ features that clearly should be included.  Flex did this with SmartSDR 
v1.xx.  They sold the transceiver as being ‘remotable’ but it took them five 
years to provide that capability.  The delay was likely due to higher 
priorities (to provide the features that everyone, not just remote operators, 
needed) and more complex challenges (such as providing appropriate security to 
prevent unauthorized use of an amateur transceiver that can only transmit under 
the control of an authorized licensee).  Demoing remote operation is not the 
same as a general release where security features must be built-in to ensure 
station security.

I suspect that the development efforts under Flex are a reflection of the 
challenges now faced by Elecraft recognizing that there are significant 
differences in equipment architecture but both push the SDR envelope to provide 
the richest experience as perceived by each manufacturer.  I’m not predicting 
that it will take Elecraft five years to provide a remote operation option. I 
am suggesting that it may be ‘awhile’ as it isn’t clear what they expect to 
provide.  It may be app(s) that runs on Windows or Mac or  iOS or Android or it 
may also include a hardware equivalent (K4/i0) or they will provide an API that 
developers can use to access the K4 feature set.   I’m not following the K4 
’story’ close enough to know exactly what their current thinking is on this 
matter.  I do intend to attend the Huntsville Hamfest this coming weekend, so 
perhaps I’ll have a better understanding of their current situation after 
visiting the Elecraft booth.

Lastly, the benefit of being an ‘early adopter’ is that the user benefits from 
the development efforts to date. Clearly, the K4 is a significant upgrade over 
the K3 as currently demonstrated  The downside is potential frustration as 
desired features are not available immediately upon initial product shipment 
and it could be ’sometime’ before the full potential of a product is reached.  
I considered my Flex-6700 to be a ‘paperweight’ for five years because it was 
not remote-able while others who were using their Flex transceivers locally 
were very satisfied with what was being provided at the time.  I purchased the 
K3 system in the interim to give me some level of remote capability.  Now that 
the Flex system has matured to the point where I can fully utilize it as a 
remote station, the K3 is now serving as a ‘backup’ system  which is very 
important given that I’m usually over 1200 miles from the ham site for months 
at a time.  I have a Flex Maestro sitting next to my K3/I0-mini at two 
locatio

Re: [Elecraft] K4

[BRUCE WW8II]

Give it to your kids

WW8II

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 5:40 PM Ken Roberson via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

>
> I have 4 kids, I could give each another $1500.00 when I dieor I could buy
>
> A new K4 , Let’s see which should I do?
> Ken K5DNL
>
> __
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>
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> Message delivered to wa8...@gmail.com
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[Elecraft] OFFLIST: Re: K4 delivery status

[Barry Baines via Elecraft]

Hi Dave:

> On Aug 17, 2021, at 12:04 AM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm not missing any point other than your continued deflection with that Flex 
> wall of text, and I certainly know that software development takes time and 
> people.  My only point has been that Elecraft is shipping K4's without the 
> software that they at least implied already existed (they demo'd it!) and 
> that obviously other other (probably more important) efforts are taking 
> precedence over its completion.  Why do you keep acting like I have said 
> anything else??

Elecraft may have demoed an ‘alpha’ version of remote software but that doesn’t 
necessarily mean that it is ready for prime time.  I have no idea where they 
stand on their development work or where it stands in their priority list.  I 
suspect that they’re dealing with more critical priorities, like it or not.

I referenced the “Flex experience” because it seems to me that it a reflection 
of how product development has changed in the amateur radio industry.  No 
longer do manufacturers come out with a HF rig every few years with the latest 
features (that can’t be upgraded later).  Instead, they’re developing a new 
‘ecosystem’ that presumably will last for a number of years where new features 
are introduced as ’software updates’ rather than as hardware enhancements in 
the guise of a new model.  This approach suggests that the product will 
‘mature’ over time and that it may take a number of years to reach what was 
initially ‘promised’ under the vision that was announced when the product 
introduction was made.  It may also be the case that capabilities not announced 
upon product announcement may be introduced such as ‘MultiFlex” where two 
operators are sharing the same transceiver at the same time (but only one is 
transmitting at a given instant).  

SDR development in particular is not trivial requiring specialized skills and 
where resources may be constrained that will lengthen development time.  
Furthermore, under the adage of “the perfect is the enemy of the good’, 
hardware will be released with software embedded that may not provide even 
‘basic’ features that clearly should be included.  Flex did this with SmartSDR 
v1.xx.  They sold the transceiver as being ‘remotable’ but it took them five 
years to provide that capability.  The delay was likely due to higher 
priorities (to provide the features that everyone, not just remote operators, 
needed) and more complex challenges (such as providing appropriate security to 
prevent unauthorized use of an amateur transceiver that can only transmit under 
the control of an authorized licensee).  Demoing remote operation is not the 
same as a general release where security features must be built-in to ensure 
station security.

I suspect that the development efforts under Flex are a reflection of the 
challenges now faced by Elecraft recognizing that there are significant 
differences in equipment architecture but both push the SDR envelope to provide 
the richest experience as perceived by each manufacturer.  I’m not predicting 
that it will take Elecraft five years to provide a remote operation option. I 
am suggesting that it may be ‘awhile’ as it isn’t clear what they expect to 
provide.  It may be app(s) that runs on Windows or Mac or  iOS or Android or it 
may also include a hardware equivalent (K4/i0) or they will provide an API that 
developers can use to access the K4 feature set.   I’m not following the K4 
’story’ close enough to know exactly what their current thinking is on this 
matter.  I do intend to attend the Huntsville Hamfest this coming weekend, so 
perhaps I’ll have a better understanding of their current situation after 
visiting the Elecraft booth.

Lastly, the benefit of being an ‘early adopter’ is that the user benefits from 
the development efforts to date. Clearly, the K4 is a significant upgrade over 
the K3 as currently demonstrated  The downside is potential frustration as 
desired features are not available immediately upon initial product shipment 
and it could be ’sometime’ before the full potential of a product is reached.  
I considered my Flex-6700 to be a ‘paperweight’ for five years because it was 
not remote-able while others who were using their Flex transceivers locally 
were very satisfied with what was being provided at the time.  I purchased the 
K3 system in the interim to give me some level of remote capability.  Now that 
the Flex system has matured to the point where I can fully utilize it as a 
remote station, the K3 is now serving as a ‘backup’ system  which is very 
important given that I’m usually over 1200 miles from the ham site for months 
at a time.  I have a Flex Maestro sitting next to my K3/I0-mini at two 
locations which combined with how I have remote power management setup allows 
full control of my ham station.  

I’ve had situations where the Flex is not available (usually due to a 
configuration mistake on my part that isn’t discovered u

Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[David Gilbert]

I'm not missing any point other than your continued deflection with that 
Flex wall of text, and I certainly know that software development takes 
time and people.  My only point has been that Elecraft is shipping K4's 
without the software that they at least implied already existed (they 
demo'd it!) and that obviously other other (probably more important) 
efforts are taking precedence over its completion.  Why do you keep 
acting like I have said anything else??


Dave AB7E


On 8/16/2021 8:33 PM, Barry Baines wrote:

David:


On Aug 16, 2021, at 10:27 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:


Well, I'm not particularly interested in Flex's history, but that seems to be a 
pretty long winded agreement that there probably isn't any timetable for the 
remote capability that Elecraft appeared to demonstrate in their video upon the 
release of the K4.

As an aside, last I checked software development wasn't dependent upon piece 
part supply.  Priorities are priorities, though ... I'm just saying that the 
remote capability doesn't appear to be very high on the list.  That's obviously 
Elecraft's choice, but for me the remote capability was probably the one key 
attribute that might convince me to switch from my K3 to the K4.  For 
everything else that actually matters to me in the way of raw performance, the 
K3 seems as good or better.

Perhaps you’re missing my point.  Yes, hardware production is dependent upon parts 
supply, but the focus of development is software both in terms of user interface as 
well as the ‘internals’ of managing “Software" Defined Radio systems is 
significantly greater than prior Elecraft products.  It took Flex nearly five years 
after initial product announcement to provide Wide Area Network remote capability 
for their Flex-6 products.  When it came out in 2017, it changed the entire 
nature of Flex products.  Remote operation is what is driving Flex users today.

Elecraft presumably understands this, but clearly there are other software 
development concerns they’re currently focusing upon.  And how do you balance 
the need to get hardware product out-the-door (to generate revenue) versus 
software development that has been implicitly promised but is presumably 
initially paid for with a hardware purchase?  The priority is presumably to get 
product out-the-door…  And as good as job as Elecraft did on K4 software 
development before product release, there will be ‘bugs’ found by users as the 
user base expands.  Thus, there is also a continuing need for “software 
maintenance.”

I have no idea what ‘software licensing’ model Elecraft may pursue down the road.  
Will ‘remote operation’ be a separate product to be purchased when it is available?  
The version of SmartSDR that users obtained when they received their Flex-6xxx 
eventually was replaced by an ‘enhanced’ version that offers new features with a new 
version number that requires payment for a new license if the user wants the 
enhanced capabilities.  The license is associated with the radio, not the user.  
Thus, I went from v1.xxx when the Flex was delivered in November 2013 and later paid 
for v2.xxx when "Smartlink” (Remote operation) was introduced in 2017.  Later, 
Flex offered “Multiflex” under SmartSDR v3.xxx that I elected not to purchase and my 
current SmartSDR v2.7.6 supports my current needs.  “Versions” reflect new 
capabilities (e.g. “Smartlink” and “Multiflex”) while bug fixes within a version are 
provided as part of the existing license.  This pricing model is common in the 
computer industry and it does provide a revenue stream to help support continued 
software development.  In addition, I paid for SmartSDR for Mac and SmartSDR for iOS 
licenses developed outside of Flex because they offer features I was willing to pay 
for with the developer promising future updates without additional fees.

Thus, don’t overlook the significance of software development both in terms of 
development time and expense.  I presume that the software development effort 
for the K4 is significantly greater than prior Elecraft products requiring 
special skills (such as FPGA programming) and more extensive development 
efforts than in the past that takes time and resources to successfully 
implement.

FWIW,

Barry, WD4ASW/1



73,
Dave   AB7E


On 8/16/2021 5:55 PM, Barry Baines wrote:

David:


On Aug 16, 2021, at 7:28 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:


Apparently not.  I recently asked on this list if new K4 users could tell us 
how well the K4 worked for remote operations.  The only replies I got said that 
Elecraft had not yet written a release version of the software for remote 
operation of the K4, and as best they could tell from the responses they had 
gotten from Elecraft there was no timetable for doing so.  Nobody from Elecraft 
bothered to answer my query, so they are probably correct.

We all know that Elecraft is facing huge challenges on all fronts in terms of 
product manufacturing and digging through the orders they’ve 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[Barry Baines via Elecraft]

David:

> On Aug 16, 2021, at 10:27 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, I'm not particularly interested in Flex's history, but that seems to be 
> a pretty long winded agreement that there probably isn't any timetable for 
> the remote capability that Elecraft appeared to demonstrate in their video 
> upon the release of the K4.
> 
> As an aside, last I checked software development wasn't dependent upon piece 
> part supply.  Priorities are priorities, though ... I'm just saying that the 
> remote capability doesn't appear to be very high on the list.  That's 
> obviously Elecraft's choice, but for me the remote capability was probably 
> the one key attribute that might convince me to switch from my K3 to the K4.  
> For everything else that actually matters to me in the way of raw 
> performance, the K3 seems as good or better.

Perhaps you’re missing my point.  Yes, hardware production is dependent upon 
parts supply, but the focus of development is software both in terms of user 
interface as well as the ‘internals’ of managing “Software" Defined Radio 
systems is significantly greater than prior Elecraft products.  It took Flex 
nearly five years after initial product announcement to provide Wide Area 
Network remote capability for their Flex-6 products.  When it came out in 
2017, it changed the entire nature of Flex products.  Remote operation is what 
is driving Flex users today.

Elecraft presumably understands this, but clearly there are other software 
development concerns they’re currently focusing upon.  And how do you balance 
the need to get hardware product out-the-door (to generate revenue) versus 
software development that has been implicitly promised but is presumably 
initially paid for with a hardware purchase?  The priority is presumably to get 
product out-the-door…  And as good as job as Elecraft did on K4 software 
development before product release, there will be ‘bugs’ found by users as the 
user base expands.  Thus, there is also a continuing need for “software 
maintenance.”   

I have no idea what ‘software licensing’ model Elecraft may pursue down the 
road.  Will ‘remote operation’ be a separate product to be purchased when it is 
available?  The version of SmartSDR that users obtained when they received 
their Flex-6xxx eventually was replaced by an ‘enhanced’ version that offers 
new features with a new version number that requires payment for a new license 
if the user wants the enhanced capabilities.  The license is associated with 
the radio, not the user.  Thus, I went from v1.xxx when the Flex was delivered 
in November 2013 and later paid for v2.xxx when "Smartlink” (Remote operation) 
was introduced in 2017.  Later, Flex offered “Multiflex” under SmartSDR v3.xxx 
that I elected not to purchase and my current SmartSDR v2.7.6 supports my 
current needs.  “Versions” reflect new capabilities (e.g. “Smartlink” and 
“Multiflex”) while bug fixes within a version are provided as part of the 
existing license.  This pricing model is common in the computer industry and it 
does provide a revenue stream to help support continued software development.  
In addition, I paid for SmartSDR for Mac and SmartSDR for iOS licenses 
developed outside of Flex because they offer features I was willing to pay for 
with the developer promising future updates without additional fees.  

Thus, don’t overlook the significance of software development both in terms of 
development time and expense.  I presume that the software development effort 
for the K4 is significantly greater than prior Elecraft products requiring 
special skills (such as FPGA programming) and more extensive development 
efforts than in the past that takes time and resources to successfully 
implement.   

FWIW,

Barry, WD4ASW/1


> 
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
> 
> 
> On 8/16/2021 5:55 PM, Barry Baines wrote:
>> David:
>> 
>>> On Aug 16, 2021, at 7:28 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Apparently not.  I recently asked on this list if new K4 users could tell 
>>> us how well the K4 worked for remote operations.  The only replies I got 
>>> said that Elecraft had not yet written a release version of the software 
>>> for remote operation of the K4, and as best they could tell from the 
>>> responses they had gotten from Elecraft there was no timetable for doing 
>>> so.  Nobody from Elecraft bothered to answer my query, so they are probably 
>>> correct.
>> 
>> We all know that Elecraft is facing huge challenges on all fronts in terms 
>> of product manufacturing and digging through the orders they’ve received.
>> 
>> Elecraft is not alone in terms of announcing a vision and then expending the 
>> resources ($$$, technical development, production, distribution) to make it 
>> happen. Elecraft’s new vision is not easy to implement and will take time 
>> (years) to fulfill what has been announced.  The challenge is to provide a 
>> roadmap and then calibrate everyone’s expectations regarding when these new 
>> capabilit

Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[David Gilbert]

Well, I'm not particularly interested in Flex's history, but that seems 
to be a pretty long winded agreement that there probably isn't any 
timetable for the remote capability that Elecraft appeared to 
demonstrate in their video upon the release of the K4.


As an aside, last I checked software development wasn't dependent upon 
piece part supply.  Priorities are priorities, though ... I'm just 
saying that the remote capability doesn't appear to be very high on the 
list.  That's obviously Elecraft's choice, but for me the remote 
capability was probably the one key attribute that might convince me to 
switch from my K3 to the K4.  For everything else that actually matters 
to me in the way of raw performance, the K3 seems as good or better.


73,
Dave   AB7E


On 8/16/2021 5:55 PM, Barry Baines wrote:

David:


On Aug 16, 2021, at 7:28 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:


Apparently not.  I recently asked on this list if new K4 users could tell us 
how well the K4 worked for remote operations.  The only replies I got said that 
Elecraft had not yet written a release version of the software for remote 
operation of the K4, and as best they could tell from the responses they had 
gotten from Elecraft there was no timetable for doing so.  Nobody from Elecraft 
bothered to answer my query, so they are probably correct.


We all know that Elecraft is facing huge challenges on all fronts in terms of 
product manufacturing and digging through the orders they’ve received.

Elecraft is not alone in terms of announcing a vision and then expending the 
resources ($$$, technical development, production, distribution) to make it 
happen. Elecraft’s new vision is not easy to implement and will take time 
(years) to fulfill what has been announced.  The challenge is to provide a 
roadmap and then calibrate everyone’s expectations regarding when these new 
capabilities will be available to users.  Like FlexRadio, Elecraft is building 
a new product line (“ecosystem”) that is fundamentally changing their product 
offereings and thus the user experience.

While I’m not suggesting that Elecraft’s ability to fulfill its roadmap mirrors 
the customer experience at FlexRadio, making the comparison at least provides a 
potential for context and recognizing that the technical and financial 
challenges can be significant.  In addition, events of the past 18 months has 
certainly impacted Elecraft more than Flex in terms of new product releases 
given what California has been going through not only with Covid-19 but fires 
and power outages along with subcontractor issues, parts issues, etc.

So with these thoughts in mind, I can recite my personal experience as an 
‘early adopter’ of the Flex-6000 series and the timeframes of what was promised 
and when it was delivered as I can recall offhand.

1.  Hamvention 2012 was when Flex announced the Flex-6700 transceiver and the 
evolution into a ‘client-server’ typography between radio (server) and 
connection device (PC, other user interface) as the client.  What caught my eye 
was the promise of remote operation via an ethernet connection that would 
greatly simplify the setup and operation of a remote station.  Given that my 
potential operating would be 90% of the time via remote operation, this was a 
big deal to me.   I ordered one in August 2012 as their ‘early purchase 
discount’ was expiring.

2.  My Flex-6700 was delivered in November 2013 with SmarSDR v1.x that was 
essentially useless for my purposes.  No provision for remote operation and 
only ‘basic functions.’  No promises were made as to when remote operation 
would be possible.

3.  In August 2014 I purchased the K3-KPA500-KAT500-K3/I0 mini with remote rig 
system from Elecraft at the Huntsville Hamfest.  10 days later product was 
delivered to me in Westborough, MA and I subsequently set it up at my station 
in Folkston, GA over labor day weekend.  I ordered the equipment because at 
this point I had no idea when Flex would have developed their remote capability 
and none of us were getting any younger.

Setup was simple and ‘it simply worked’.  Nothing fancy versus the potential of 
the Flex, but it performed as advertised.  Most importantly, i had a reliable 
remote station capability.

4. In May 2017 Flex announced SmartSDR v2.x with “Smartlink” that finally 
provided the wide area network remote capability that I was looking for.  Note 
that this was FIVE YEARS after initial product announcement.  By then SmartSDR 
had evolved to a level of maturity where the capabilities were meeting 
expectations….

5.  In February 2018 Flex announced the PGXL amplifier along with an external 
tuner capable of SO2R capability that would handle the output of the PGXL.  The 
PGXL was shown at the Orlando Hamcation but the tuner at this point was ‘vapor’ 
as it had not yet been designed.  I ordered mine the day that Hamcation opened.

6.  I received my PGXL in May 2018 following Hamvention.  Neither SmartSDR nor 
the Maestro were upda

Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[K5WA]

Just as a reminder, there is a group set up specifically for creative whining 
and grousing at https://groups.io/g/CreativeK4ShippingStatus .   We also gather 
data in our spare time to generate a fairly accurate view of waiting times and 
deliveries.  The idea was to offload that kind of stuff from the technical 
discussions that occur on this and the K4 forum.

 

We welcome visitors that are amusing in one way or another.  😉

 

73,

Bob K5WA

 

 

Message: 1

Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 23:33:21 +

From: Bill Johnson mailto:k9...@live.com> >

To: David Gilbert mailto:ab7e...@gmail.com> >, 
"elecraft@mailman.qth.net  "

mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net> >

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

Message-ID:


mailto:dm6pr08mb50017ee90a6fc95bedbf34ec9c...@dm6pr08mb5001.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
 >



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 

When we see what CA is up to, they may shut down Elecraft again, send them 
packing to home, put triple masks on, require two vaccines, 3 boosters and a 
partridge in a pear tree.  

 

Sorry, Couldn't help myself.  

 

Bill

K9YEQ

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[Barry Baines via Elecraft]

David:

> On Aug 16, 2021, at 7:28 PM, David Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> 
> Apparently not.  I recently asked on this list if new K4 users could tell us 
> how well the K4 worked for remote operations.  The only replies I got said 
> that Elecraft had not yet written a release version of the software for 
> remote operation of the K4, and as best they could tell from the responses 
> they had gotten from Elecraft there was no timetable for doing so.  Nobody 
> from Elecraft bothered to answer my query, so they are probably correct.


We all know that Elecraft is facing huge challenges on all fronts in terms of 
product manufacturing and digging through the orders they’ve received. 

Elecraft is not alone in terms of announcing a vision and then expending the 
resources ($$$, technical development, production, distribution) to make it 
happen. Elecraft’s new vision is not easy to implement and will take time 
(years) to fulfill what has been announced.  The challenge is to provide a 
roadmap and then calibrate everyone’s expectations regarding when these new 
capabilities will be available to users.  Like FlexRadio, Elecraft is building 
a new product line (“ecosystem”) that is fundamentally changing their product 
offereings and thus the user experience.  

While I’m not suggesting that Elecraft’s ability to fulfill its roadmap mirrors 
the customer experience at FlexRadio, making the comparison at least provides a 
potential for context and recognizing that the technical and financial 
challenges can be significant.  In addition, events of the past 18 months has 
certainly impacted Elecraft more than Flex in terms of new product releases 
given what California has been going through not only with Covid-19 but fires 
and power outages along with subcontractor issues, parts issues, etc.  

So with these thoughts in mind, I can recite my personal experience as an 
‘early adopter’ of the Flex-6000 series and the timeframes of what was promised 
and when it was delivered as I can recall offhand.

1.  Hamvention 2012 was when Flex announced the Flex-6700 transceiver and the 
evolution into a ‘client-server’ typography between radio (server) and 
connection device (PC, other user interface) as the client.  What caught my eye 
was the promise of remote operation via an ethernet connection that would 
greatly simplify the setup and operation of a remote station.  Given that my 
potential operating would be 90% of the time via remote operation, this was a 
big deal to me.   I ordered one in August 2012 as their ‘early purchase 
discount’ was expiring.  

2.  My Flex-6700 was delivered in November 2013 with SmarSDR v1.x that was 
essentially useless for my purposes.  No provision for remote operation and 
only ‘basic functions.’  No promises were made as to when remote operation 
would be possible.

3.  In August 2014 I purchased the K3-KPA500-KAT500-K3/I0 mini with remote rig 
system from Elecraft at the Huntsville Hamfest.  10 days later product was 
delivered to me in Westborough, MA and I subsequently set it up at my station 
in Folkston, GA over labor day weekend.  I ordered the equipment because at 
this point I had no idea when Flex would have developed their remote capability 
and none of us were getting any younger.  

Setup was simple and ‘it simply worked’.  Nothing fancy versus the potential of 
the Flex, but it performed as advertised.  Most importantly, i had a reliable 
remote station capability.  

4. In May 2017 Flex announced SmartSDR v2.x with “Smartlink” that finally 
provided the wide area network remote capability that I was looking for.  Note 
that this was FIVE YEARS after initial product announcement.  By then SmartSDR 
had evolved to a level of maturity where the capabilities were meeting 
expectations….

5.  In February 2018 Flex announced the PGXL amplifier along with an external 
tuner capable of SO2R capability that would handle the output of the PGXL.  The 
PGXL was shown at the Orlando Hamcation but the tuner at this point was ‘vapor’ 
as it had not yet been designed.  I ordered mine the day that Hamcation opened. 
 

6.  I received my PGXL in May 2018 following Hamvention.  Neither SmartSDR nor 
the Maestro were updated to accommodate the PGXL, so I was forced to use the 
PGXL using the PGXL utility running on a PC in the shack when operating 
remotely.  More significantly, no tuner was announced so at this point I could 
use the amplifier with my tribander.  This meant that I was dependent upon the 
Elecraft equipment for bands other than 10-15-20.  

7.  The amplifier was returned to Flex in December 2018 due to warranty recall 
(issue with six meters).  

8.  I don’t remember when, but PGXL integration was incorporated into both 
Maestro and the various SmartSDR iterations, making it much easier to manage 
the PGXL remotely.

9.  The TGXL (Tuner Genius) was announced in March 2021. I received my Tuner 
Genius in June 2021, 3+ years after I ordered the PGXL and tuner package.  

10. With 

Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 1:21 PM Fred Jensen  wrote:

> I haven't seen much K4 chatter here lately, I wonder how things are
> going in the shipping/delivery business. Were I to order one today, when
> could I expect to start tracking a package?
>

Skip et al,

No one can answer this question, unfortunately, because Elecraft's
suppliers can't answer Elecraft's questions.  The world-wide chip shortage
(and other factors beyond Elecraft's control) make providing reasonable
delivery estimates nearly impossible.  This applies to many products
including autos, not just the K4.

Most Elecraft K4 discussion is taking place on an independent moderated
mailing list with almost 1,000 members:
https://groups.io/g/Elecraft-K4/topics.  I cannot read this Elecraft
mailman reflector regularly because I'm spending most of my time in that
dedicated K4 group, not here.  You can search the group for answers to
common questions, such as K4 Remote support (still under development).

*K4 shipping status and delivery questions should be posted to separate
dedicated groups* that are trying to estimate Elecraft's ship rate based on
serial numbers and public reports.

https://groups.io/g/CreativeK4ShippingStatus/topics

https://groups.io/g/Elecraft-K4DeliveryInformation/topics

And of course the official Elecraft page is here:

https://elecraft.com/pages/shipping-status

Note that "Group 1 K4D June 24th" means  June 24th, *2019*.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Digest, Vol 208, Issue 8

[Jason Harris]

Look down the page 

73  🇺🇸

> On Aug 16, 2021, at 20:25, D Remy  wrote:
> 
> I would like to opt out of this mailing list.  How do I do that?
> 
> David, NS4V
> 
> David R. Hourdequin, PE
> Specialty Heavy Timber Engineer
> Hayesville, NC 28904
> 828-421-6216
> 
>> On Aug 16, 2021, at 19:33, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
>> 
>> Send Elecraft mailing list submissions to
>>   elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>   http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>   elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>   elecraft-ow...@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Elecraft digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. K2/100 RF gain knob inoperable (Mike Seiffert)
>>  2. Re: Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts
>> production/delivery? (Mark Musick)
>>  3. Re: K2/100 RF gain knob inoperable (Don Wilhelm)
>>  4. Re: K2/100 RF gain knob inoperable (jerry)
>>  5. Re: Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts
>> production/delivery? (n6...@outlook.com)
>>  6. Re: T1 Tuner Question ? (Paul Ecker)
>>  7. Re: K2 Power Level (Don Wilhelm)
>>  8. Re: T1 Tuner Question ? (Bill Frantz)
>>  9. K4 delivery status (Fred Jensen)
>> 10. Re: K4 delivery status (Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP)
>> 11. Re: K4 delivery status (Julia Tuttle)
>> 12. Re: K2 Power Level (Lyn Norstad)
>> 13. Re: K4 delivery status (Lyn Norstad)
>> 14. Re: K2 Power Level (Louandzip)
>> 15. Re: K4 delivery status (Wes)
>> 16. Re: K4 delivery status (Fred Jensen)
>> 17. K4 (Ken Roberson)
>> 18. Re: K4 (Julia Tuttle)
>> 19. Re: K4 (Lou Mecseri)
>> 20. Re: K4 (Stephen Black)
>> 21. Re: K4 (Kyle Chavis)
>> 22. Re: K4 delivery status (David Gilbert)
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 07:27:34 -0700
>> From: Mike Seiffert 
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: [Elecraft] K2/100 RF gain knob inoperable
>> Message-ID: <7fc3958d-224a-4833-a2fd-9e3ea824c...@earthlink.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Hi Folks,
>> I have an Elecraft K2/100 (S/N 01136) given to me by father (SK) some years 
>> ago. I am finally finding some time again for ham radio and would like to 
>> get this rig up and working well.  It has the A to B mods applied, and 
>> includes the options for SSB, DSP, 160/Rx ant, etc. I have applied the BFO 
>> and PLL upgrades.
>> 
>> My current problem is that the RF gain knob doesn?t seem to do anything. I 
>> was expecting to hear some difference in the level of received signals and 
>> to see the S-meter go to the right as I turn the knob fully CCW. Turning 
>> this knob seems to have no affect on anything. 
>> 
>> Any help would be appreciated!  I mention the following details in case they 
>> are relevant: my father was mostly interested in 160m cw, so I?m not sure if 
>> other aspects of the radio received attention when he built it. The AF gain 
>> knob is scratchy - I?ve read about the mod that addresses this, but haven?t 
>> yet applied it. The AGC needs adjustment - I can tell the difference in 
>> volume AGC On vs off with no antenna connected. I don?t know that any of 
>> these are related to the RF gain. 
>> 
>> Before I open things up to measure and replace the RF gain pot, are there 
>> other things I should check?  A quick check of the email reflector archive 
>> didn?t turn up anything obvious to me. 
>> 
>> 73,
>> Mike AE6NH 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 14:46:34 +
>> From: Mark Musick 
>> To: Henk PA5KT , Elecraft Mail List
>>   
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts
>>   production/delivery?
>> Message-ID:
>>   
>> 
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Apparently my reply to WB0GAZ didn't go through to the whole group. Here is 
>> my reply to him.
>> 
>> They announced a few weeks ago that they were closing the order list and 
>> there would be no more production runs for K3 options. 
>> They indicated at that time it would be about 12 weeks before we could 
>> expect delivery.
>> It isn't even close to 12 weeks. What more of an update are you looking for?
>> I finalized my order and gave them half deposit.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Mark, WB9CIF
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
>> Behalf Of Henk PA5KT via Elecraft
>> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 14:07
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts 
>> production/delivery?
>> 
>> And what was the answer?
>> 
>> Op 16-8-2021 om 15:54 schreef wb0gaz via Elecraft:
>>> 
>>> My question has been answered - thanks!
>>> 
 On Monday, August 16, 2021, 07:08:19 AM MDT,  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Has Elecraft

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Digest, Vol 208, Issue 8

[D Remy]

I would like to opt out of this mailing list.  How do I do that?

David, NS4V

David R. Hourdequin, PE
Specialty Heavy Timber Engineer
Hayesville, NC 28904
828-421-6216

> On Aug 16, 2021, at 19:33, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
> 
> Send Elecraft mailing list submissions to
>elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>elecraft-ow...@mailman.qth.net
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Elecraft digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. K2/100 RF gain knob inoperable (Mike Seiffert)
>   2. Re: Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts
>  production/delivery? (Mark Musick)
>   3. Re: K2/100 RF gain knob inoperable (Don Wilhelm)
>   4. Re: K2/100 RF gain knob inoperable (jerry)
>   5. Re: Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts
>  production/delivery? (n6...@outlook.com)
>   6. Re: T1 Tuner Question ? (Paul Ecker)
>   7. Re: K2 Power Level (Don Wilhelm)
>   8. Re: T1 Tuner Question ? (Bill Frantz)
>   9. K4 delivery status (Fred Jensen)
>  10. Re: K4 delivery status (Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP)
>  11. Re: K4 delivery status (Julia Tuttle)
>  12. Re: K2 Power Level (Lyn Norstad)
>  13. Re: K4 delivery status (Lyn Norstad)
>  14. Re: K2 Power Level (Louandzip)
>  15. Re: K4 delivery status (Wes)
>  16. Re: K4 delivery status (Fred Jensen)
>  17. K4 (Ken Roberson)
>  18. Re: K4 (Julia Tuttle)
>  19. Re: K4 (Lou Mecseri)
>  20. Re: K4 (Stephen Black)
>  21. Re: K4 (Kyle Chavis)
>  22. Re: K4 delivery status (David Gilbert)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 07:27:34 -0700
> From: Mike Seiffert 
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] K2/100 RF gain knob inoperable
> Message-ID: <7fc3958d-224a-4833-a2fd-9e3ea824c...@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Hi Folks,
> I have an Elecraft K2/100 (S/N 01136) given to me by father (SK) some years 
> ago. I am finally finding some time again for ham radio and would like to get 
> this rig up and working well.  It has the A to B mods applied, and includes 
> the options for SSB, DSP, 160/Rx ant, etc. I have applied the BFO and PLL 
> upgrades.
> 
> My current problem is that the RF gain knob doesn?t seem to do anything. I 
> was expecting to hear some difference in the level of received signals and to 
> see the S-meter go to the right as I turn the knob fully CCW. Turning this 
> knob seems to have no affect on anything. 
> 
> Any help would be appreciated!  I mention the following details in case they 
> are relevant: my father was mostly interested in 160m cw, so I?m not sure if 
> other aspects of the radio received attention when he built it. The AF gain 
> knob is scratchy - I?ve read about the mod that addresses this, but haven?t 
> yet applied it. The AGC needs adjustment - I can tell the difference in 
> volume AGC On vs off with no antenna connected. I don?t know that any of 
> these are related to the RF gain. 
> 
> Before I open things up to measure and replace the RF gain pot, are there 
> other things I should check?  A quick check of the email reflector archive 
> didn?t turn up anything obvious to me. 
> 
> 73,
> Mike AE6NH 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 14:46:34 +
> From: Mark Musick 
> To: Henk PA5KT , Elecraft Mail List
>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts
>production/delivery?
> Message-ID:
>
> 
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Apparently my reply to WB0GAZ didn't go through to the whole group. Here is 
> my reply to him.
> 
> They announced a few weeks ago that they were closing the order list and 
> there would be no more production runs for K3 options. 
> They indicated at that time it would be about 12 weeks before we could expect 
> delivery.
> It isn't even close to 12 weeks. What more of an update are you looking for?
> I finalized my order and gave them half deposit.
> 
> 73,
> Mark, WB9CIF
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
> Behalf Of Henk PA5KT via Elecraft
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 14:07
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts 
> production/delivery?
> 
> And what was the answer?
> 
> Op 16-8-2021 om 15:54 schreef wb0gaz via Elecraft:
>> 
>> My question has been answered - thanks!
>> 
>>  On Monday, August 16, 2021, 07:08:19 AM MDT,  wrote:
>> 
>>   Has Elecraft provided any update/status on their processing of these 
>> orders?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: 

Re: [Elecraft] K4

[jerry]

On 2021-08-16 16:13, Kyle Chavis wrote:

If you think about it, they might take the money and buy a Baofeng!!
OMG :)


*** So - seriously - how does the K4 compare to the "cheap spread" ( 
IC7300 )?


   - Jerry KF6VB




On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 7:06 PM Stephen Black via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

Can't take it with you and for all the crap we all faced in life we 
may

as well enjoy our later years. Steve kb1chu

On 8/16/2021 5:39 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:
> I have 4 kids, I could give each another $1500.00 when I dieor I could
buy
>
> A new K4 , Let’s see which should I do?
> Ken K5DNL
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[David Gilbert]

We would all have been better off if you had managed to help yourself.

Dave   AB7E


On 8/16/2021 4:33 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

When we see what CA is up to, they may shut down Elecraft again, send them 
packing to home, put triple masks on, require two vaccines, 3 boosters and a 
partridge in a pear tree.

Sorry, Couldn't help myself.

Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of David Gilbert
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 6:28 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status


Apparently not.  I recently asked on this list if new K4 users could tell us 
how well the K4 worked for remote operations.  The only replies I got said that 
Elecraft had not yet written a release version of the software for remote 
operation of the K4, and as best they could tell from the responses they had 
gotten from Elecraft there was no timetable for doing so.  Nobody from Elecraft 
bothered to answer my query, so they are probably correct.

73,
Dave   AB7E





On 8/16/2021 2:22 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

1.  I run W7RN remotely with the RemoteRig RRC-1258 setup and my K3.
If I replace my K3 with a K4, and Tom does _not_ do likewise at RN,
will my remote setup still work?

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[Bill Johnson]

When we see what CA is up to, they may shut down Elecraft again, send them 
packing to home, put triple masks on, require two vaccines, 3 boosters and a 
partridge in a pear tree.  

Sorry, Couldn't help myself.  

Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of David Gilbert
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 6:28 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status


Apparently not.  I recently asked on this list if new K4 users could tell us 
how well the K4 worked for remote operations.  The only replies I got said that 
Elecraft had not yet written a release version of the software for remote 
operation of the K4, and as best they could tell from the responses they had 
gotten from Elecraft there was no timetable for doing so.  Nobody from Elecraft 
bothered to answer my query, so they are probably correct.

73,
Dave   AB7E





On 8/16/2021 2:22 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>
> 1.  I run W7RN remotely with the RemoteRig RRC-1258 setup and my K3. 
> If I replace my K3 with a K4, and Tom does _not_ do likewise at RN, 
> will my remote setup still work?
>

> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[David Gilbert]

Apparently not.  I recently asked on this list if new K4 users could 
tell us how well the K4 worked for remote operations.  The only replies 
I got said that Elecraft had not yet written a release version of the 
software for remote operation of the K4, and as best they could tell 
from the responses they had gotten from Elecraft there was no timetable 
for doing so.  Nobody from Elecraft bothered to answer my query, so they 
are probably correct.


73,
Dave   AB7E





On 8/16/2021 2:22 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:


1.  I run W7RN remotely with the RemoteRig RRC-1258 setup and my K3.  
If I replace my K3 with a K4, and Tom does _not_ do likewise at RN, 
will my remote setup still work?





73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County


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Re: [Elecraft] K4

[Kyle Chavis]

If you think about it, they might take the money and buy a Baofeng!!
OMG :)

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 7:06 PM Stephen Black via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Can't take it with you and for all the crap we all faced in life we may
> as well enjoy our later years. Steve kb1chu
>
> On 8/16/2021 5:39 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:
> > I have 4 kids, I could give each another $1500.00 when I dieor I could
> buy
> >
> > A new K4 , Let’s see which should I do?
> > Ken K5DNL
> >
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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Re: [Elecraft] K4

[Stephen Black via Elecraft]

Can't take it with you and for all the crap we all faced in life we may 
as well enjoy our later years. Steve kb1chu


On 8/16/2021 5:39 PM, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:

I have 4 kids, I could give each another $1500.00 when I dieor I could buy

A new K4 , Let’s see which should I do?
Ken K5DNL

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Re: [Elecraft] K4

[Lou Mecseri]

I would do the radio, You earned it, you should enjoy it. :)

73, Lou KE1F

On 8/16/2021 21:39, Ken Roberson via Elecraft wrote:

I have 4 kids, I could give each another $1500.00 when I dieor I could buy

A new K4 , Let’s see which should I do?
Ken K5DNL

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Re: [Elecraft] K4

[Julia Tuttle]

...well, that depends on your and their financial situations, plus the
expected resale value of a K4 after you've passed and/or whether any of
them would use it.

You could also sell all your current radio gear and invest that money for
them.

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 17:40 Ken Roberson via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

>
> I have 4 kids, I could give each another $1500.00 when I dieor I could buy
>
> A new K4 , Let’s see which should I do?
> Ken K5DNL
>
> __
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[Elecraft] K4

[Ken Roberson via Elecraft]

I have 4 kids, I could give each another $1500.00 when I dieor I could buy 

A new K4 , Let’s see which should I do?
Ken K5DNL

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Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[Fred Jensen]

Well Lyn, I survived nearly four years of war during my bulletproof and 
immortal period, so I've assumed it will never be too late to buy a new 
radio. 😉  My K3 [#642] is getting somewhat long in the tooth but it 
still functions great and I really enjoy it.  I've also had enough time 
to learn how to use most of the knobs and switches.  The two primary 
questions lurking in my head right now:


1.  I run W7RN remotely with the RemoteRig RRC-1258 setup and my K3.  If 
I replace my K3 with a K4, and Tom does _not_ do likewise at RN, will my 
remote setup still work?


2.  I have monochrome vision.  I run my P3 waterfall in monochrome mode 
[Thank you Alan!] since the colored mode makes no sense to me.  Does the 
K4 offer that same monochrome WF option?


But, a new radio would be cool!

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 8/16/2021 1:39 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

Fred -

According to QRZ, you are 3 years older than I am ... and I am one year
beyond the current "Average Life Expectancy" in the USA (post-Covid) for
men.  Not meaning to imply anything by that, but for me ... I'd wait until
they have inventory.

73
Lyn, WØLEN

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Fred Jensen
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 3:20 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

I haven't seen much K4 chatter here lately, I wonder how things are
going in the shipping/delivery business. Were I to order one today, when
could I expect to start tracking a package?

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County



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Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[Wes]

And then wait another year until the bugs are fixed.

Wes  N7WS

On 8/16/2021 1:39 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote:

Fred -
I'd wait until they have inventory.

73
Lyn, WØLEN




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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Power Level

[Louandzip via Elecraft]

 Of course what the material is matters a lot.  A 60C piece of wood or plastic 
(not good heatsink materials) will feel warm whereas a hunk of aluminum will 
feel quite hot due to its much higher thermal conductivity and heat capacity. 

On Monday, August 16, 2021, 02:40:37 PM MDT, Lyn Norstad  
wrote:  
 
 Interesting point, Don.

I never thought of the "finger test" for that purpose, but the "Threshold of
Pain" is normally considered to be 42C (or 107F).  My KPA500 reaches that
temp after about 8 seconds of 40 meter carrier with a drive level of 18
watts and an output level of about 350 watts. (Normal 'power off temp' runs
about 37C).

The average person can touch a 140F surface for 5 seconds without sustaining
irreversible burn damage.

Such a simple, basic thing to know ... but who does?

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 1:55 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 Power Level

All,

I was reminded that I should have added that CW and SSB are low duty 
cycle modes while FT8 and several other data modes are high duty cycle 
and will produce more heat.

The 'finger test' I mentioned is suitable for any mode.

73,
Don W3FPR

--
Aaron,

I cannot give you a specific answer, but go by the heat.
I would suggest you first try 5 watts, and operate at that level for a 
while (I suggest 10 minutes).
Then check the heatsink temperature - if you can hold your fingers on it 
for longer than 5 minutes, then all is well.
Increase the power by about 3 watts and try again.
When the heat gets too much to comfortably hold your fingers on the 
heatsink (next to the PA transistors), then you have exceeded the 
maximum power which you should use for transmit.

The generalized answer is that you should consider those modes as 
continuous duty and use 1/2 the normal full power output, but I suggest 
doing the test I referred to as a specific power limit for your 
particular K2.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/13/2021 3:38 PM, Aaron K5ATG wrote:
> What is the recommended highest power level for a QRP Elecraft K2 to
> operate on digital modes like FT8, JT65 etc, without blowing the PA's?
>


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Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[Lyn Norstad]

Fred -

According to QRZ, you are 3 years older than I am ... and I am one year
beyond the current "Average Life Expectancy" in the USA (post-Covid) for
men.  Not meaning to imply anything by that, but for me ... I'd wait until
they have inventory.

73
Lyn, WØLEN

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Fred Jensen
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 3:20 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

I haven't seen much K4 chatter here lately, I wonder how things are 
going in the shipping/delivery business. Were I to order one today, when 
could I expect to start tracking a package?

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Power Level

[Lyn Norstad]

Interesting point, Don.

I never thought of the "finger test" for that purpose, but the "Threshold of
Pain" is normally considered to be 42C (or 107F).  My KPA500 reaches that
temp after about 8 seconds of 40 meter carrier with a drive level of 18
watts and an output level of about 350 watts. (Normal 'power off temp' runs
about 37C).

The average person can touch a 140F surface for 5 seconds without sustaining
irreversible burn damage.

Such a simple, basic thing to know ... but who does?

73
Lyn, W0LEN


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 1:55 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 Power Level

All,

I was reminded that I should have added that CW and SSB are low duty 
cycle modes while FT8 and several other data modes are high duty cycle 
and will produce more heat.

The 'finger test' I mentioned is suitable for any mode.

73,
Don W3FPR

--
Aaron,

I cannot give you a specific answer, but go by the heat.
I would suggest you first try 5 watts, and operate at that level for a 
while (I suggest 10 minutes).
Then check the heatsink temperature - if you can hold your fingers on it 
for longer than 5 minutes, then all is well.
Increase the power by about 3 watts and try again.
When the heat gets too much to comfortably hold your fingers on the 
heatsink (next to the PA transistors), then you have exceeded the 
maximum power which you should use for transmit.

The generalized answer is that you should consider those modes as 
continuous duty and use 1/2 the normal full power output, but I suggest 
doing the test I referred to as a specific power limit for your 
particular K2.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/13/2021 3:38 PM, Aaron K5ATG wrote:
> What is the recommended highest power level for a QRP Elecraft K2 to
> operate on digital modes like FT8, JT65 etc, without blowing the PA's?
>


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Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[Julia Tuttle]

You're never too old to buy another radio!

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 16:30 Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP 
wrote:

> I'd like to know too. I keep flipping back and forth between "I'm too
> old to buy another radio" and "but the K4 is so cool."
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> CWops #5
> Formerly K2VCO
> https://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> On 16/08/2021 23:20, Fred Jensen wrote:
> > I haven't seen much K4 chatter here lately, I wonder how things are
> > going in the shipping/delivery business. Were I to order one today, when
> > could I expect to start tracking a package?
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> > Sparks NV DM09dn
> > Washoe County
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I'd like to know too. I keep flipping back and forth between "I'm too 
old to buy another radio" and "but the K4 is so cool."


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
CWops #5
Formerly K2VCO
https://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 16/08/2021 23:20, Fred Jensen wrote:
I haven't seen much K4 chatter here lately, I wonder how things are 
going in the shipping/delivery business. Were I to order one today, when 
could I expect to start tracking a package?


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County
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[Elecraft] K4 delivery status

[Fred Jensen]

I haven't seen much K4 chatter here lately, I wonder how things are 
going in the shipping/delivery business. Were I to order one today, when 
could I expect to start tracking a package?


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County
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Re: [Elecraft] T1 Tuner Question ?

[Bill Frantz]

On 8/16/21 at 2:15 PM, ecke...@gmail.com (Paul Ecker) wrote:

> Thanks to all that responded to my T1 Tuner question. Turns out the one I
> was asking about, that I bought thru QRZ Swapmeet would not tune, but the
> seller immediately refunded my money via PayPal. The second offer of a T1
> also via QRZ turned out to be a scam. So enough, just ordered a brand new
> T1 in kit form. If it doesn't work, we'll know why.

It's a fun build, and a rugged little box to have when you finish.

73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz| Ham radio contesting is a | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | contact sport.| 150 Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | --Ken Widelitz K6LA/VY2TT | Peterborough, NH 03458

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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Power Level

[Don Wilhelm]

All,

I was reminded that I should have added that CW and SSB are low duty 
cycle modes while FT8 and several other data modes are high duty cycle 
and will produce more heat.


The 'finger test' I mentioned is suitable for any mode.

73,
Don W3FPR
--
Aaron,

I cannot give you a specific answer, but go by the heat.
I would suggest you first try 5 watts, and operate at that level for a 
while (I suggest 10 minutes).
Then check the heatsink temperature - if you can hold your fingers on it 
for longer than 5 minutes, then all is well.

Increase the power by about 3 watts and try again.
When the heat gets too much to comfortably hold your fingers on the 
heatsink (next to the PA transistors), then you have exceeded the 
maximum power which you should use for transmit.


The generalized answer is that you should consider those modes as 
continuous duty and use 1/2 the normal full power output, but I suggest 
doing the test I referred to as a specific power limit for your 
particular K2.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/13/2021 3:38 PM, Aaron K5ATG wrote:

What is the recommended highest power level for a QRP Elecraft K2 to
operate on digital modes like FT8, JT65 etc, without blowing the PA's?




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Re: [Elecraft] T1 Tuner Question ?

[Paul Ecker]

Thanks to all that responded to my T1 Tuner question. Turns out the one I
was asking about, that I bought thru QRZ Swapmeet would not tune, but the
seller immediately refunded my money via PayPal. The second offer of a T1
also via QRZ turned out to be a scam. So enough, just ordered a brand new
T1 in kit form. If it doesn't work, we'll know why.

73 Paul w2eck
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Re: [Elecraft] Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts production/delivery?

[n6...@outlook.com]

>From Elecraft Sales on Wednesday July 28th:

"We are still hopeful we'll be able to offer the sub rx but we have no ETA for 
that at this time.

The rest of the options can no longer be ordered because we'll have final 
numbers tallied in the next couple of days - that's why the ordering webpage was
shut down.  The vendor is telling us 10-12 weeks (approx) from the date we 
order boards + another 2-3 weeks for testing, bagging, tagging, etc once the
boards arrive here."



From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on 
behalf of Henk PA5KT via Elecraft 
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 7:07 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts 
production/delivery?

And what was the answer?

Op 16-8-2021 om 15:54 schreef wb0gaz via Elecraft:
>
> My question has been answered - thanks!
>
>   On Monday, August 16, 2021, 07:08:19 AM MDT,  wrote:
>
>Has Elecraft provided any update/status on their processing of these 
> orders?
>
> Thanks!
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 RF gain knob inoperable

[jerry]

All,

  The AF gain pot on my K2/10 was quite scratchy when I got it.  A few 
days

of ham activity, plus some whacking it back & forth, cured it.  No more
scratches.  Worth trying.

   - Jerry KF6VB


On 2021-08-16 08:59, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Mike,

First set the AGC Threshold voltage, and then check the operation of
the RF Gain to see if you can get the CAL S LO and CAL S HI settings
to fall in line.
It is not likely that replacing the pot will fix it.

For a scratchy AF Gain control, replace the control, as well as doing
the Alternate AF Gain Wiring Modification.  You can download the
instructions from the Elecraft website.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/16/2021 10:27 AM, Mike Seiffert wrote:

Hi Folks,
I have an Elecraft K2/100 (S/N 01136) given to me by father (SK) some 
years ago. I am finally finding some time again for ham radio and 
would like to get this rig up and working well.  It has the A to B 
mods applied, and includes the options for SSB, DSP, 160/Rx ant, etc. 
I have applied the BFO and PLL upgrades.


My current problem is that the RF gain knob doesn’t seem to do 
anything. I was expecting to hear some difference in the level of 
received signals and to see the S-meter go to the right as I turn the 
knob fully CCW. Turning this knob seems to have no affect on anything.


Any help would be appreciated!  I mention the following details in 
case they are relevant: my father was mostly interested in 160m cw, so 
I’m not sure if other aspects of the radio received attention when he 
built it. The AF gain knob is scratchy - I’ve read about the mod that 
addresses this, but haven’t yet applied it. The AGC needs adjustment - 
I can tell the difference in volume AGC On vs off with no antenna 
connected. I don’t know that any of these are related to the RF gain.


Before I open things up to measure and replace the RF gain pot, are 
there other things I should check?  A quick check of the email 
reflector archive didn’t turn up anything obvious to me.





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Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 RF gain knob inoperable

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

First set the AGC Threshold voltage, and then check the operation of the 
RF Gain to see if you can get the CAL S LO and CAL S HI settings to fall 
in line.

It is not likely that replacing the pot will fix it.

For a scratchy AF Gain control, replace the control, as well as doing 
the Alternate AF Gain Wiring Modification.  You can download the 
instructions from the Elecraft website.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/16/2021 10:27 AM, Mike Seiffert wrote:

Hi Folks,
I have an Elecraft K2/100 (S/N 01136) given to me by father (SK) some years 
ago. I am finally finding some time again for ham radio and would like to get 
this rig up and working well.  It has the A to B mods applied, and includes the 
options for SSB, DSP, 160/Rx ant, etc. I have applied the BFO and PLL upgrades.

My current problem is that the RF gain knob doesn’t seem to do anything. I was 
expecting to hear some difference in the level of received signals and to see 
the S-meter go to the right as I turn the knob fully CCW. Turning this knob 
seems to have no affect on anything.

Any help would be appreciated!  I mention the following details in case they 
are relevant: my father was mostly interested in 160m cw, so I’m not sure if 
other aspects of the radio received attention when he built it. The AF gain 
knob is scratchy - I’ve read about the mod that addresses this, but haven’t yet 
applied it. The AGC needs adjustment - I can tell the difference in volume AGC 
On vs off with no antenna connected. I don’t know that any of these are related 
to the RF gain.

Before I open things up to measure and replace the RF gain pot, are there other 
things I should check?  A quick check of the email reflector archive didn’t 
turn up anything obvious to me.




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Re: [Elecraft] Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts production/delivery?

[Mark Musick]

Apparently my reply to WB0GAZ didn't go through to the whole group. Here is my 
reply to him.

They announced a few weeks ago that they were closing the order list and there 
would be no more production runs for K3 options. 
They indicated at that time it would be about 12 weeks before we could expect 
delivery.
It isn't even close to 12 weeks. What more of an update are you looking for?
I finalized my order and gave them half deposit.

73,
Mark, WB9CIF


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Henk PA5KT via Elecraft
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 14:07
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts 
production/delivery?

And what was the answer?

Op 16-8-2021 om 15:54 schreef wb0gaz via Elecraft:
>   
> My question has been answered - thanks!
>
>   On Monday, August 16, 2021, 07:08:19 AM MDT,  wrote:
>   
>Has Elecraft provided any update/status on their processing of these 
> orders?
>
> Thanks!
>  
> __
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[Elecraft] K2/100 RF gain knob inoperable

[Mike Seiffert]

Hi Folks,
I have an Elecraft K2/100 (S/N 01136) given to me by father (SK) some years 
ago. I am finally finding some time again for ham radio and would like to get 
this rig up and working well.  It has the A to B mods applied, and includes the 
options for SSB, DSP, 160/Rx ant, etc. I have applied the BFO and PLL upgrades.

My current problem is that the RF gain knob doesn’t seem to do anything. I was 
expecting to hear some difference in the level of received signals and to see 
the S-meter go to the right as I turn the knob fully CCW. Turning this knob 
seems to have no affect on anything. 

Any help would be appreciated!  I mention the following details in case they 
are relevant: my father was mostly interested in 160m cw, so I’m not sure if 
other aspects of the radio received attention when he built it. The AF gain 
knob is scratchy - I’ve read about the mod that addresses this, but haven’t yet 
applied it. The AGC needs adjustment - I can tell the difference in volume AGC 
On vs off with no antenna connected. I don’t know that any of these are related 
to the RF gain. 

Before I open things up to measure and replace the RF gain pot, are there other 
things I should check?  A quick check of the email reflector archive didn’t 
turn up anything obvious to me. 

73,
Mike AE6NH 
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 to practice sending CW

[JEROME SODUS]

I have it working.
The fix was tapping "DISP" to have VFO-B display "frequency" rather than the 
several displays of time, supply-voltage, current-drain, etc.
I'm noting Fred's book accordingly.
73 jerry km3k 

> On 08/15/2021 12:22 AM JEROME SODUS  wrote:
>  
>  
> Hello,
>  
> For a CW-sending practice session, I'm having trouble setting up the KX3 
> to decode my sending.
> I know it can be done because I had it working a couple years ago by 
> following the page 71-72 directions in the book by Fred KE7X (SK) for the KX3.
> I'm using the same directions again now.
>  
> The mode is CW.
> PTT was set.
> I did have "RX THR3" showing.
> The little "T" is in the lower-right corner.
> I hear my sending.
> But the VFO-B window shows the clock.
> Having done the set-up several times with the same negative result, I 
> need to ask for help.
>  
> 73 jerry km3k
> 
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[Elecraft] KX3 to practice sending CW

[JEROME SODUS]

Hello,

For a CW-sending practice session, I'm having trouble setting up the KX3 to 
decode my sending.
I know it can be done because I had it working a couple years ago by following 
the page 71-72 directions in the book by Fred KE7X (SK) for the KX3.
I'm using the same directions again now.

The mode is CW.
PTT was set.
I did have "RX THR3" showing.
The little "T" is in the lower-right corner.
I hear my sending.
But the VFO-B window shows the clock.
Having done the set-up several times with the same negative result, I need to 
ask for help.

73 jerry km3k
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Re: [Elecraft] Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts production/delivery?

[Henk PA5KT via Elecraft]

And what was the answer?

Op 16-8-2021 om 15:54 schreef wb0gaz via Elecraft:
  
My question has been answered - thanks!


  On Monday, August 16, 2021, 07:08:19 AM MDT,  wrote:
  
   Has Elecraft provided any update/status on their processing of these orders?


Thanks!
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts production/delivery?

[wb0gaz via Elecraft]

 
My question has been answered - thanks!

 On Monday, August 16, 2021, 07:08:19 AM MDT,  wrote:  
 
  Has Elecraft provided any update/status on their processing of these orders?

Thanks!

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[Elecraft] Any update on production of K3 ugprade parts production/delivery?

[wb0gaz via Elecraft]

 Has Elecraft provided any update/status on their processing of these orders?

Thanks!
  
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