Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
No, I'm not a human 'Skimmer' -- but I can pick out an individual cw signal within about an 8 KHz span if it's pitch falls somewhere between about 200 Hz and 8 KHz, and can probably 'guestimate' by the pitch, to which signal it corresponds on the P3, and then quickly place my TX signal nearby and make my call. I guess I'm not conveying very successfully what I was hoping to do. I can do this easily w/ the second rx of the FLEX-5K -- but we're talking completely different architectures, each with their own pluses and minuses. The FM filters and the KRX3 will be here today, so I'll be able to experiment soon enough. I suspect that just being able to monitor both the dx and the pile-up simultaneously will be a huge help, and I may not feel the need for such a wide bandwidth on the pile-up side. We'll see... 73, Dale WA8SRA On 9/27/2012 12:20 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: I figured I could include that entire range within the FM filter bandwidth (which I still can do), AND also hear all 10 KHz of those signals (which I've learned I cannot do). Your ears are much better than mine if you can actually copy a full 10 KHz wide audio pile-up. I have enough trouble keeping up with 4 KHz or so (200 Hz to 4.2 KHz) if I open everything up in SSB mode. Note the K3 limits HI in CW to Pitch + 1400 Hz thus if one likes a 500 Hz tone, the highest frequency passed in CW is 1900 Hz. The *widest* bandwidth possible in CW is by using an 800 Hz sidetone which results in 2.2 KHz ... whether the roofing filter is 2.7, 2.8, 6 or 13 KHz wide. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 9:46 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: Joe, Understood. I wanted to be able to simultaneously hear and see 12 Khz or so of cw signals, thinking that I could more quickly identify the station being worked. For example, if I know the dx station is listening from 14.010 to 14.020 (admittedly pretty wide), I figured I could include that entire range within the FM filter bandwidth (which I still can do), AND also hear all 10 KHz of those signals (which I've learned I cannot do). Oh well; the FM filter will still let me hear a wider swath of the pile-up than my present 2.8KHz filter will... 73, Dale WA8SRA On 9/26/2012 9:25 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: The only reason I had for putting the FM filter in the 2nd receiver was to be able to hear more of the split in a broad pileup situation (like the extremely large split widths that we saw a few months ago with 7O6T), The width of the roofing filter has nothing at all to do with hearing more of the pile-up (unless you're talking about literally listening to all the signals at one time like a pile-up tape). The P3's pick- up point is ahead of any roofing filter - it can see up to 200 KHz at a time. The K3 transmitter and receiver can be split anywhere in the band and if the KRX3 is used with a separate antenna the K3 and KRX3 can literally transmit on one band and listen on another. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 8:58 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: Joe, Good observations, all. I agree that 4.2 KHz is certainly good enough for communications audio. The only reason I had for putting the FM filter in the 2nd receiver was to be able to hear more of the split in a broad pileup situation (like the extremely large split widths that we saw a few months ago with 7O6T), figuring that being able to simultaneously hear the wider bandwidth and see it on the P3 would be a great combination. I'll just have to be a bit quicker with the VFO-B knob ;-) 73, Dale WA8SRA On 9/26/2012 8:10 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: The limit occurs several places ... adjust the HI setting and one will find 4.20 is the maximum available. There is also an analog lowpass filter in the audio (headphone and speaker) between the DAC and the headphone/speaker amplifiers. I'm sure this limitation derives from the roughly 10 KHz clock/sample rate used for the DAC ... Nyquist says the maximum frequency can not be more than half the sample (clock) rate. 4.2 KHz is plenty good enough for communications audio ... and not bad for AM with fading, noise, and interference typical of medium and high frequencies. The FM filter still provides noticeably better double sideband AM response (4.2 - 4.5 KHz with DSP/LPF skirts) than the AM filter (3.0-3.3 KHz depending on the IF filter response). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 7:23 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Sorry, but yes, the K3 audio is limited at 4 kHz, no matter whether it is to the headphones or to the speaker. Please do not shoot the messenger. but that information is in the archives of this reflector in several places - it has been discussed periodically. If you want to lobby for extended audio response, that is fine, but I am just saying what the limits are today. Whether those can be extended or not is for the DSP designer to answer. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/26/2012 7:11 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: On 9/26/2012
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Bruce Beford-2 wrote I would not assume most users prefer this. I have 2.8/1.8 and it suits me just fine, thank you. The 1.8 works well under contest conditions, when needed. I found the 1.8k is too narrow for running stations at high rates (150 per hour) in contests. It's OK when you have time to carefully tune signals (e.g. DXing or SP in contests), but when callers are slightly off-frequency (as many are in contests), intelligibility suffers which really slows you down. In the CQ WW SSB last year, I quickly stopped using my 1.8k and switched to the stock 2.7k set to DSP 2.0k for the remainder of the contest (won USA SOSB/10 by 30% over the next highest score). I've since installed a 2.1k which I expect will work better for high run rates...will report back after October 28. 73, Bill W4ZV -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Filter-suggestions-for-new-builder-tp7563280p7563341.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Thanks, Don. I should explain a bit more. In fact I confused running bw down to 2.1 or 1.8 KHz with running the NR function. It is the NR which adds what I termed audio distortion to the signal and not narrowing bw. At least not at 1.8-2.1 KHz. Ringing below 50-Hz makes it difficult/impossible for me to copy weak-CW. Typically, I run CW-eme at 100-Hz. So I will not bother to add another IF filter to run narrower bw with SSB. Having three filters in the main Rx and one in the sub-Rx is adequate. I can always reduce bw in diversity Rx with the DSP. 73, Ed - KL7UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Stan, Since you have decided to go with the 2.7 filter, you have a couple decisions to make. Do you pay for matched filters between the main and the sub so you can have good diversity reception, or do you cheat and set the filter offsets to the mean of the two filters. At a 2.7 width, the small variation from the true offsets will not make much difference, but you do need to set them to the mean for diversity reception. In other words, if one filter had a -600 Hz offset and the other -300, setting the offset for both at -450 Hz will work just fine. With more narrow filters, you may not be able to get away with that, but with wide filters, the percentage change is not as great. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/25/2012 4:06 PM, Stan AE7UT wrote: Thanks for all the feed-back. It looks like I'm at least in the right ball park. I definitely want the diversity reception so I'll be doubling most if not all filters. I've decided to stick with the 2.7 for now. I doubt my ears could hear the difference. Interesting that most here have gone with the 2.1 vs. the 1.8 KHz filters. I'm going to have to go home and listen closer to see if I like 2.1 or 1.8. Thanks again. You guys have been a tremendous help. 73 Stan AE7UT -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Filter-suggestions-for-new-builder-tp7563280p7563295.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Thanks for more great info Don. I figure $20 is well spent in just having them match my other 2.7Khz, 5 pole. After reading this through a couple of times and talking with a couple of K3 users I'm going with 2.7 KHz, 5 pole - matched 2.1 KHz, 8 pole 400 Hz, 8 pole 200 Hz, 5 pole - matched Just got my check from the buyer of my O2 so I plunked down the cash for the KAT3, KRX3, KXV3a, filters and a KPA500. That's just about tapped out all of my fun money. The P3 will have to wait a month or so. Thanks for all the help. It's been fascinating all the thoughts and comments. It's nice the K3 is so versatile. 73 Stan AE7UT -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Filter-suggestions-for-new-builder-tp7563280p7563374.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
I originally chose the 8-pole filters thinking the steeper skirts would be useful should I ever take the radio into a dense RF environment like it is in the lower-48 states. MY experience with CW indicated 400-Hz was adequate as I could narrow this down with the DSP filter. I chose the 2.8 KHz SSB filter and 13-KHz filter for FM use with a VHF transverter. One note is that changing filters on the main board requires removal of the sub-Rx so probably good to figure out what you want from the beginning. I installed a 2.8 and 13 KHz filter in my sub-Rx, thinking I could get the full bandwidth in audio to use with soundcards for SDR sw. But I learned that audio is limited to 4-KHz regardless of IF filter so I ended up selling the extra 13-KHz filter. I have thought of adding a 1.8 or 2.1 KHz filter for working tough SSB signals. I do try running the DSP down to that bandwidth but find that the DSP audio distortion sometimes is counterproductive to hearing weak SSB. I do not have trouble with dense local QRM up here in Alaska. I wonder if the roofing filters are easier to listen thru than the DSP filter? I did not install a second 400-Hz filter in the sub-Rx and that may be an error when I start running dual-pol diversity reception for CW-eme. At present, I only run diversity Rx in USB since I am running JT-65 on 2m-eme. I am testing a new program called MAP65 which maps and decodes all JT65 signals in a 90-KHz window. This covers 144.090-144.170 digital eme sub-band, nicely. Someday it would be interesting to set up a crossed dipole on 20, 15 , or 10m and listen in diversity Rx. Crossed horizontal dipoles actually sample different polarities of refracted HF. According to KL7AJ all HF is converted to circular polarity upon refraction in the ionosphere (see the recent article in QST by him). 73, Ed - KL7UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Your choices of filter are very good. I like the idea of a 1.8 filter for tight sub You don't need the 2.8 sub, stay with the stock. Your CW choice is excellent because the K3 can go tighter digitally. You don't need a wide FM filter unless you are going on VHF UHF FM with transverters. You don't need an AM filter. I have it, don't use it. Waste for me. My 2 cents. Bill N2WL On Sep 26, 2012, at 12:00 PM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Ed, I would think you are hearing the results of a narrow passband rather than DSP audio distortion. I say that because in all cases with the K3, it is the DSP that determines the filter width rather than the roofing filter. What I am saying is that even if you put in a 1.8k filter, SSB at a 1.8k width will sound the same as it does right now using only the DSP. I trust you are using the HI-Cut to narrow the receive passband, leaving the LO-Cut set to the 200 to 300 Hz range rather than trying to use the Width and Shift controls. If you are using Shift and Width, you have to re-position Shift with every change in Width or the speech will become more distorted. Using HI-Cut, you just reduce the high frequency end - no other change is required. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/26/2012 1:35 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: I have thought of adding a 1.8 or 2.1 KHz filter for working tough SSB signals. I do try running the DSP down to that bandwidth but find that the DSP audio distortion sometimes is counterproductive to hearing weak SSB. I do not have trouble with dense local QRM up here in Alaska. I wonder if the roofing filters are easier to listen thru than the DSP filter? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
On 9/26/2012 1:35 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: ... But I learned that audio is limited to 4-KHz regardless of IF filter so I ended up selling the extra 13-KHz filter. ... 73, Ed - KL7UW I really hope that this does not apply to received audio to the headphones or loudspeaker! I just purchased two FM filters (one for sub-receiver to monitor wide splits) specifically to open up the receive passband (audio included) for SWL and BCB reception. I have no intention of actually transmitting FM or AM for that matter -- just want the wider audio bandwidth for receive. So... is the received audio bandwidth *really* limited to 4 KHz? 73, Dale WA8SRA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Sorry, but yes, the K3 audio is limited at 4 kHz, no matter whether it is to the headphones or to the speaker. Please do not shoot the messenger. but that information is in the archives of this reflector in several places - it has been discussed periodically. If you want to lobby for extended audio response, that is fine, but I am just saying what the limits are today. Whether those can be extended or not is for the DSP designer to answer. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/26/2012 7:11 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: On 9/26/2012 1:35 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: ... But I learned that audio is limited to 4-KHz regardless of IF filter so I ended up selling the extra 13-KHz filter. ... 73, Ed - KL7UW I really hope that this does not apply to received audio to the headphones or loudspeaker! I just purchased two FM filters (one for sub-receiver to monitor wide splits) specifically to open up the receive passband (audio included) for SWL and BCB reception. I have no intention of actually transmitting FM or AM for that matter -- just want the wider audio bandwidth for receive. So... is the received audio bandwidth *really* limited to 4 KHz? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Hello Don, Thanks for the quick response. I was just going through the K3 manual and KE7X's excellent book, but haven't seen any reference to that. For general ham radio operation I don't see it as a limitation, but it's a bit disappointing that the FM filters that will arrive tomorrow along with the 2nd RX, won't provide the capability I was hoping for. 73, Dale WA8SRA On 9/26/2012 7:23 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Sorry, but yes, the K3 audio is limited at 4 kHz, no matter whether it is to the headphones or to the speaker. Please do not shoot the messenger. but that information is in the archives of this reflector in several places - it has been discussed periodically. If you want to lobby for extended audio response, that is fine, but I am just saying what the limits are today. Whether those can be extended or not is for the DSP designer to answer. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/26/2012 7:11 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: On 9/26/2012 1:35 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: ... But I learned that audio is limited to 4-KHz regardless of IF filter so I ended up selling the extra 13-KHz filter. ... 73, Ed - KL7UW I really hope that this does not apply to received audio to the headphones or loudspeaker! I just purchased two FM filters (one for sub-receiver to monitor wide splits) specifically to open up the receive passband (audio included) for SWL and BCB reception. I have no intention of actually transmitting FM or AM for that matter -- just want the wider audio bandwidth for receive. So... is the received audio bandwidth *really* limited to 4 KHz? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
The limit occurs several places ... adjust the HI setting and one will find 4.20 is the maximum available. There is also an analog lowpass filter in the audio (headphone and speaker) between the DAC and the headphone/speaker amplifiers. I'm sure this limitation derives from the roughly 10 KHz clock/sample rate used for the DAC ... Nyquist says the maximum frequency can not be more than half the sample (clock) rate. 4.2 KHz is plenty good enough for communications audio ... and not bad for AM with fading, noise, and interference typical of medium and high frequencies. The FM filter still provides noticeably better double sideband AM response (4.2 - 4.5 KHz with DSP/LPF skirts) than the AM filter (3.0-3.3 KHz depending on the IF filter response). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 7:23 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Sorry, but yes, the K3 audio is limited at 4 kHz, no matter whether it is to the headphones or to the speaker. Please do not shoot the messenger. but that information is in the archives of this reflector in several places - it has been discussed periodically. If you want to lobby for extended audio response, that is fine, but I am just saying what the limits are today. Whether those can be extended or not is for the DSP designer to answer. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/26/2012 7:11 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: On 9/26/2012 1:35 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: ... But I learned that audio is limited to 4-KHz regardless of IF filter so I ended up selling the extra 13-KHz filter. ... 73, Ed - KL7UW I really hope that this does not apply to received audio to the headphones or loudspeaker! I just purchased two FM filters (one for sub-receiver to monitor wide splits) specifically to open up the receive passband (audio included) for SWL and BCB reception. I have no intention of actually transmitting FM or AM for that matter -- just want the wider audio bandwidth for receive. So... is the received audio bandwidth *really* limited to 4 KHz? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Joe, Good observations, all. I agree that 4.2 KHz is certainly good enough for communications audio. The only reason I had for putting the FM filter in the 2nd receiver was to be able to hear more of the split in a broad pileup situation (like the extremely large split widths that we saw a few months ago with 7O6T), figuring that being able to simultaneously hear the wider bandwidth and see it on the P3 would be a great combination. I'll just have to be a bit quicker with the VFO-B knob ;-) 73, Dale WA8SRA On 9/26/2012 8:10 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: The limit occurs several places ... adjust the HI setting and one will find 4.20 is the maximum available. There is also an analog lowpass filter in the audio (headphone and speaker) between the DAC and the headphone/speaker amplifiers. I'm sure this limitation derives from the roughly 10 KHz clock/sample rate used for the DAC ... Nyquist says the maximum frequency can not be more than half the sample (clock) rate. 4.2 KHz is plenty good enough for communications audio ... and not bad for AM with fading, noise, and interference typical of medium and high frequencies. The FM filter still provides noticeably better double sideband AM response (4.2 - 4.5 KHz with DSP/LPF skirts) than the AM filter (3.0-3.3 KHz depending on the IF filter response). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 7:23 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Sorry, but yes, the K3 audio is limited at 4 kHz, no matter whether it is to the headphones or to the speaker. Please do not shoot the messenger. but that information is in the archives of this reflector in several places - it has been discussed periodically. If you want to lobby for extended audio response, that is fine, but I am just saying what the limits are today. Whether those can be extended or not is for the DSP designer to answer. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/26/2012 7:11 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: On 9/26/2012 1:35 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: ... But I learned that audio is limited to 4-KHz regardless of IF filter so I ended up selling the extra 13-KHz filter. ... 73, Ed - KL7UW I really hope that this does not apply to received audio to the headphones or loudspeaker! I just purchased two FM filters (one for sub-receiver to monitor wide splits) specifically to open up the receive passband (audio included) for SWL and BCB reception. I have no intention of actually transmitting FM or AM for that matter -- just want the wider audio bandwidth for receive. So... is the received audio bandwidth *really* limited to 4 KHz? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Right, Don! I still believe that many K3 users are under the erroneous impression that the roofing filter determines the receiver bandwidth. It does not. The HI and LO knobs do. The only thing the roofing filter does is determine the MAXIMUM possible bandwidth of the receiver. In 99% of cases, an SSB roofing filter is good enough. (That statement is going to draw some fire.) It's a little bit like this: the roofing filter is like the credit limit on your Visa card. You can't go any higher than that. But in any typical month, you spend far less than that... and on the K3 the amount you *actually* spend is set by the HI and LO cut controls. This is why I advised the original poster: you wanna know what 1.8 kHz sounds like? Set your HI LO controls to a bandwidth of 1.8 kHz. Then decide whether it 1/ is tolerable; and 2/ increases intelligibility enough to make the investment worth it. I happen to think that 1.8 kHz is too narrow. But that's just me. I say that because in all cases with the K3, it is the DSP that determines the filter width rather than the roofing filter. What I am saying is that even if you put in a 1.8k filter, SSB at a 1.8k width will sound the same as it does right now using only the DSP. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
The only reason I had for putting the FM filter in the 2nd receiver was to be able to hear more of the split in a broad pileup situation (like the extremely large split widths that we saw a few months ago with 7O6T), The width of the roofing filter has nothing at all to do with hearing more of the pile-up (unless you're talking about literally listening to all the signals at one time like a pile-up tape). The P3's pick- up point is ahead of any roofing filter - it can see up to 200 KHz at a time. The K3 transmitter and receiver can be split anywhere in the band and if the KRX3 is used with a separate antenna the K3 and KRX3 can literally transmit on one band and listen on another. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 8:58 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: Joe, Good observations, all. I agree that 4.2 KHz is certainly good enough for communications audio. The only reason I had for putting the FM filter in the 2nd receiver was to be able to hear more of the split in a broad pileup situation (like the extremely large split widths that we saw a few months ago with 7O6T), figuring that being able to simultaneously hear the wider bandwidth and see it on the P3 would be a great combination. I'll just have to be a bit quicker with the VFO-B knob ;-) 73, Dale WA8SRA On 9/26/2012 8:10 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: The limit occurs several places ... adjust the HI setting and one will find 4.20 is the maximum available. There is also an analog lowpass filter in the audio (headphone and speaker) between the DAC and the headphone/speaker amplifiers. I'm sure this limitation derives from the roughly 10 KHz clock/sample rate used for the DAC ... Nyquist says the maximum frequency can not be more than half the sample (clock) rate. 4.2 KHz is plenty good enough for communications audio ... and not bad for AM with fading, noise, and interference typical of medium and high frequencies. The FM filter still provides noticeably better double sideband AM response (4.2 - 4.5 KHz with DSP/LPF skirts) than the AM filter (3.0-3.3 KHz depending on the IF filter response). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 7:23 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Sorry, but yes, the K3 audio is limited at 4 kHz, no matter whether it is to the headphones or to the speaker. Please do not shoot the messenger. but that information is in the archives of this reflector in several places - it has been discussed periodically. If you want to lobby for extended audio response, that is fine, but I am just saying what the limits are today. Whether those can be extended or not is for the DSP designer to answer. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/26/2012 7:11 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: On 9/26/2012 1:35 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: ... But I learned that audio is limited to 4-KHz regardless of IF filter so I ended up selling the extra 13-KHz filter. ... 73, Ed - KL7UW I really hope that this does not apply to received audio to the headphones or loudspeaker! I just purchased two FM filters (one for sub-receiver to monitor wide splits) specifically to open up the receive passband (audio included) for SWL and BCB reception. I have no intention of actually transmitting FM or AM for that matter -- just want the wider audio bandwidth for receive. So... is the received audio bandwidth *really* limited to 4 KHz? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Another way of looking at it is this: Just because a signal gets inside of your roofing filter doesn't mean squat. If the mixers can handle the signal's level, and the HI LO cut controls can slice off the signal, you won't even know it's there. You simply don't care! The only time this could become a problem is if the signal that squeezes into your roofing filter is huge. Then it could start polluting your passband with intermod products or activating your AGC. EVEN THEN, most hams can't even detect the first 10 dB or so of this distortion. And it's such a rare event: operating a really hot contest with a really big antenna with just the right combination of interferers; or your ham neighbor very close to you, etc. In these corner cases, you can justify extreme measures of narrow roofing filters, etc. I believe that 99% of us can get by with 1 SSB roofing filter and perhaps 1 CW-width roofing filter. The intermediate bandwidths are really overkill. So don't sweat a 2.7 vs. 2.8 kHz filter so much. You can't tell the difference when you're listening to an SSB signal with the HI LO controls set to a WIDTH of 2.4 or 2.6 kHz. Agonizing over buying a roofing filter of 2.7 or 2.1 kHz is a little like worrying if you should go for the 89 octane gasoline. If you've got the money, go for it. But you probably won't notice any difference at all. Finally, I will say this: if you find your 1.0 kHz roofing filter isn't wide enough to protect you against, you know, W4ZV's super contest signal, you're probably too close to him. In that case, just move about 600 Hz up the band. :^) With the utmost respect to W4ZV, Al W6LX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Joe, Understood. I wanted to be able to simultaneously hear and see 12 Khz or so of cw signals, thinking that I could more quickly identify the station being worked. For example, if I know the dx station is listening from 14.010 to 14.020 (admittedly pretty wide), I figured I could include that entire range within the FM filter bandwidth (which I still can do), AND also hear all 10 KHz of those signals (which I've learned I cannot do). Oh well; the FM filter will still let me hear a wider swath of the pile-up than my present 2.8KHz filter will... 73, Dale WA8SRA On 9/26/2012 9:25 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: The only reason I had for putting the FM filter in the 2nd receiver was to be able to hear more of the split in a broad pileup situation (like the extremely large split widths that we saw a few months ago with 7O6T), The width of the roofing filter has nothing at all to do with hearing more of the pile-up (unless you're talking about literally listening to all the signals at one time like a pile-up tape). The P3's pick- up point is ahead of any roofing filter - it can see up to 200 KHz at a time. The K3 transmitter and receiver can be split anywhere in the band and if the KRX3 is used with a separate antenna the K3 and KRX3 can literally transmit on one band and listen on another. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 8:58 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: Joe, Good observations, all. I agree that 4.2 KHz is certainly good enough for communications audio. The only reason I had for putting the FM filter in the 2nd receiver was to be able to hear more of the split in a broad pileup situation (like the extremely large split widths that we saw a few months ago with 7O6T), figuring that being able to simultaneously hear the wider bandwidth and see it on the P3 would be a great combination. I'll just have to be a bit quicker with the VFO-B knob ;-) 73, Dale WA8SRA On 9/26/2012 8:10 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: The limit occurs several places ... adjust the HI setting and one will find 4.20 is the maximum available. There is also an analog lowpass filter in the audio (headphone and speaker) between the DAC and the headphone/speaker amplifiers. I'm sure this limitation derives from the roughly 10 KHz clock/sample rate used for the DAC ... Nyquist says the maximum frequency can not be more than half the sample (clock) rate. 4.2 KHz is plenty good enough for communications audio ... and not bad for AM with fading, noise, and interference typical of medium and high frequencies. The FM filter still provides noticeably better double sideband AM response (4.2 - 4.5 KHz with DSP/LPF skirts) than the AM filter (3.0-3.3 KHz depending on the IF filter response). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 7:23 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Sorry, but yes, the K3 audio is limited at 4 kHz, no matter whether it is to the headphones or to the speaker. Please do not shoot the messenger. but that information is in the archives of this reflector in several places - it has been discussed periodically. If you want to lobby for extended audio response, that is fine, but I am just saying what the limits are today. Whether those can be extended or not is for the DSP designer to answer. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/26/2012 7:11 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: On 9/26/2012 1:35 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: ... But I learned that audio is limited to 4-KHz regardless of IF filter so I ended up selling the extra 13-KHz filter. ... 73, Ed - KL7UW I really hope that this does not apply to received audio to the headphones or loudspeaker! I just purchased two FM filters (one for sub-receiver to monitor wide splits) specifically to open up the receive passband (audio included) for SWL and BCB reception. I have no intention of actually transmitting FM or AM for that matter -- just want the wider audio bandwidth for receive. So... is the received audio bandwidth *really* limited to 4 KHz? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
*Al, whilst your statements hold true for you, I DO use the 1.8Khz almost as my default. Attention paid to Hi/Lo gives me nice intelligibility and if you were listening to 3D2C last night on 20M and witnessed the deplorable behavior of stations deliberately providing QRM on their call frequency you have not been impressed. I ran at 1.8Khz, tightened it up some more with Hi/LO, watched on the P3 and pounced, got'em, no problem. ( I see the on-line log does not show my success as yet) Whilst I have absolutely no idea why 3D2C generated so much qrm against them, I can only say it was a sad day and the operators I heard (2) running 3D2C were great to listen to. 73 * On 27 September 2012 11:06, Al Lorona alor...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Right, Don! I still believe that many K3 users are under the erroneous impression that the roofing filter determines the receiver bandwidth. It does not. The HI and LO knobs do. The only thing the roofing filter does is determine the MAXIMUM possible bandwidth of the receiver. In 99% of cases, an SSB roofing filter is good enough. (That statement is going to draw some fire.) It's a little bit like this: the roofing filter is like the credit limit on your Visa card. You can't go any higher than that. But in any typical month, you spend far less than that... and on the K3 the amount you *actually* spend is set by the HI and LO cut controls. This is why I advised the original poster: you wanna know what 1.8 kHz sounds like? Set your HI LO controls to a bandwidth of 1.8 kHz. Then decide whether it 1/ is tolerable; and 2/ increases intelligibility enough to make the investment worth it. I happen to think that 1.8 kHz is too narrow. But that's just me. I say that because in all cases with the K3, it is the DSP that determines the filter width rather than the roofing filter. What I am saying is that even if you put in a 1.8k filter, SSB at a 1.8k width will sound the same as it does right now using only the DSP. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- *Gary* *Start the day off slow, then taper off.* K3 #679 KPA500FT #18 KAT500FT 007 P3 #1629 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Hello Stan. I am an avid CW enthusiast and spend 100% of my time, usually around 4-6 hours a night on 20/40m CW. I have 2 identical loaded to the the max K3/100's and P3's purchased late this year. I have been very happy with my filter choices: 1. 13KHz FM 2. 6KHz AM INRAD 3. 2.8KHz INRAD 4. 400Hz INRAD 5. 200Hz 5-pole (lowest INRAD was 250Hz I think and I wanted the scalpel) I have all 5 filters populated on MAIN RX. I only have one filter, 2.8K on SUB. I almost never use the sub, so figured I could add them later if necessary. Only ordered the SUB's in the event I ever sold the rigs the next guy would probably want them. This is my order printout for both K3's: Item Ref. Price ea. Qty. Description 144OPT100 $0.00 1 K144XV Panel Kit for K3 /100 K144RFLK$89.95 1 K144XV REFLOCK K144XV-F$349.95 1 K3 Int. 2 M Module; Assm. K3/100-F$2249.951 K3 100W Xcvr. (Assembled) K3SSKT $19.95 1 K3 Stainless H/W Kit KAT3-F $339.95 1 K3 ATU (Fact. Installed) KBPF3 $149.95 1 K3 Gen. Cov. RX Module KDVR3 $129.95 1 K3 Dig. Voice Recorder KFL3A-2.8_2.7sw $129.95 2 2.8 for 2.7 kHz swap KFL3A-200 $89.95 1 K3 200 Hz, 5 pole filter KFL3A-400 $139.95 1 K3 400 Hz, 8 pole filter KFL3A-6K$139.95 2 K3 6 kHz, 8 pole filter KFL3B-FM$139.95 1 K3 FM b/w filter KRX3-F $659.95 1 K3 2nd RX (Fact. Assm.) KTCXO3-1$99.95 1 K3 TCXO (0.5ppm) KUSB$39.95 1 Univ. Ser Bus Adapt. KXV3A $119.95 1 K3 RX Ant, IF Out Xvrtr Int MH2 $59.95 1 Hand Mic. for K2/K3. P3-F$749.95 1 P3-F Panadapter -Assembled- P3SVGA $259.95 1 P3 Video/FFT Adapt. In case you're wondering, this order shows an extra 6KHz because I didn't originally include it on the first K3. I added it so both K3's would match in the event I wanted to do some SSB in the future. Both the MAIN and SUB filters were upgraded at order time from the 2.7K to the 2.8K. I personally LOVE the sharper skirts of the INRAD's. I was a total Icom guy before this summer when I got behind a K3. Since then I have sold 4 of the 5 Icom radios, including a brand new (2 weeks use) IC-7600. The 5th is for sale on QRZ. Icoms are very well built and have fancy displays, however, their receivers leave much to be desired when it comes to the filtering aspects. Very noisy. IMO, I buy a rig for the RX quality, quietness, sensitivity, and versatility. My choice to go Elecraft was based on a 30 day comparison of the K3 vs. the FTDX5000MP. I tried a few other rigs during that time including TnT and Kenwood, but the K3 and 5K were tops. Yes, tried the TnT, awesome break-in, but preferred the K3 and 5K over TnT. In short, here's the scoop: If you're mainly sideband, the Yaesu wins. If you're mainly CW, the K3 wins. The K3 is better on the lower bands and the 5K is better on the higher bands. However, the K3 is no slouch on SSB either. I'm sure people differ in opinions and appreciate taking their entire desk to house a big rig that weighs about 50# with tons of knobs to clean, but unless you have $12K to throw at both of them to test personally, I'd go Elecraft. That's my honest opinion. I was lucky to have a couple of friends that have them both side by side at the same time. I prefer the 8# loaded K3 that leaves room for my KPA-500, P3, paddle, and accessories as well. Anyway, for what it's worth, those are my filters and opinions on the two best rigs on the market this summer. Take care and 73 de Scott - n0nuf -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Filter-suggestions-for-new-builder-tp7563280p7563337.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
I figured I could include that entire range within the FM filter bandwidth (which I still can do), AND also hear all 10 KHz of those signals (which I've learned I cannot do). Your ears are much better than mine if you can actually copy a full 10 KHz wide audio pile-up. I have enough trouble keeping up with 4 KHz or so (200 Hz to 4.2 KHz) if I open everything up in SSB mode. Note the K3 limits HI in CW to Pitch + 1400 Hz thus if one likes a 500 Hz tone, the highest frequency passed in CW is 1900 Hz. The *widest* bandwidth possible in CW is by using an 800 Hz sidetone which results in 2.2 KHz ... whether the roofing filter is 2.7, 2.8, 6 or 13 KHz wide. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 9:46 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: Joe, Understood. I wanted to be able to simultaneously hear and see 12 Khz or so of cw signals, thinking that I could more quickly identify the station being worked. For example, if I know the dx station is listening from 14.010 to 14.020 (admittedly pretty wide), I figured I could include that entire range within the FM filter bandwidth (which I still can do), AND also hear all 10 KHz of those signals (which I've learned I cannot do). Oh well; the FM filter will still let me hear a wider swath of the pile-up than my present 2.8KHz filter will... 73, Dale WA8SRA On 9/26/2012 9:25 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: The only reason I had for putting the FM filter in the 2nd receiver was to be able to hear more of the split in a broad pileup situation (like the extremely large split widths that we saw a few months ago with 7O6T), The width of the roofing filter has nothing at all to do with hearing more of the pile-up (unless you're talking about literally listening to all the signals at one time like a pile-up tape). The P3's pick- up point is ahead of any roofing filter - it can see up to 200 KHz at a time. The K3 transmitter and receiver can be split anywhere in the band and if the KRX3 is used with a separate antenna the K3 and KRX3 can literally transmit on one band and listen on another. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 8:58 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: Joe, Good observations, all. I agree that 4.2 KHz is certainly good enough for communications audio. The only reason I had for putting the FM filter in the 2nd receiver was to be able to hear more of the split in a broad pileup situation (like the extremely large split widths that we saw a few months ago with 7O6T), figuring that being able to simultaneously hear the wider bandwidth and see it on the P3 would be a great combination. I'll just have to be a bit quicker with the VFO-B knob ;-) 73, Dale WA8SRA On 9/26/2012 8:10 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: The limit occurs several places ... adjust the HI setting and one will find 4.20 is the maximum available. There is also an analog lowpass filter in the audio (headphone and speaker) between the DAC and the headphone/speaker amplifiers. I'm sure this limitation derives from the roughly 10 KHz clock/sample rate used for the DAC ... Nyquist says the maximum frequency can not be more than half the sample (clock) rate. 4.2 KHz is plenty good enough for communications audio ... and not bad for AM with fading, noise, and interference typical of medium and high frequencies. The FM filter still provides noticeably better double sideband AM response (4.2 - 4.5 KHz with DSP/LPF skirts) than the AM filter (3.0-3.3 KHz depending on the IF filter response). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/26/2012 7:23 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Sorry, but yes, the K3 audio is limited at 4 kHz, no matter whether it is to the headphones or to the speaker. Please do not shoot the messenger. but that information is in the archives of this reflector in several places - it has been discussed periodically. If you want to lobby for extended audio response, that is fine, but I am just saying what the limits are today. Whether those can be extended or not is for the DSP designer to answer. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/26/2012 7:11 PM, Dale Boresz wrote: On 9/26/2012 1:35 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: ... But I learned that audio is limited to 4-KHz regardless of IF filter so I ended up selling the extra 13-KHz filter. ... 73, Ed - KL7UW I really hope that this does not apply to received audio to the headphones or loudspeaker! I just purchased two FM filters (one for sub-receiver to monitor wide splits) specifically to open up the receive passband (audio included) for SWL and BCB reception. I have no intention of actually transmitting FM or AM for that matter -- just want the wider audio bandwidth for receive. So... is the received audio bandwidth *really* limited to 4 KHz? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help
[Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
I'm asking for a little help with filter choices. I've read all I can on the subject and have come up with what I think is a good choice for me. I'm going to be getting the sub-receiver so I'm going to be getting 2 of each filter. At almost $300 a filter set I would hate to make a choice that I later have to replace. I'm new to CW and spend about an hour a night working CW on 80/40/30/20. I like to chase DX both CW and SSB. I do some contesting but I usually only have an hour or two in each contest to operate. I'm just too busy with family and work to put more into it. I would like to do more. I've never worked FM or AM/ESSB because I've never had the capability. I'm coming from an Orion II and really liked the diversity reception and want that back. I'm pretty sure about getting the: 2.8 Khz, 8 pole 1.8 Khz, 8 pole 400 Hz, 8 pole Wondering if I should put in the: 1.0 Khz, 8 pole 13 Khz FM Thanks for any thoughts on the choices. 73 Stan AE7UT -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Filter-suggestions-for-new-builder-tp7563280.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Stan, Your first 3 selections mirror mine. I think you'll find them all useful. I have only the 2.8 and 400 in my second receiver, however, and find that to be good for me. You do not have to install filter pairs for every IF width. Filters are pretty easy to install, so there's no penalty for waiting on the AM and FM (which I do have for the main receiver). I do some SWLing and use synchronous AM and the AM and FM filters for that. (For AM bandwidths above 3Khz you need the FM filter.) Monty K2DLJ 2.8 Khz, 8 pole 1.8 Khz, 8 pole 400 Hz, 8 pole Wondering if I should put in the: 1.0 Khz, 8 pole 13 Khz FM Thanks for any thoughts on the choices. 73 Stan AE7UT -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Filter-suggestions-for-new-builder-tp7563280.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
You have chosen the bread-and-butter choices. You may find they are all you need. You can add others later, if needed. Could you go with less? Personally, I only use the sub-receiver for chasing split DX. I don't need razor sharp filtering - in fact, I need to hear a broad spectrum so I can figure out where the DX is listening. Therefore, I elected no special filters in the sub. If you use the sub for diversity reception, you probably need to filter it up. Buck k4ia On 9/25/2012 1:20 PM, Stan AE7UT wrote: I'm asking for a little help with filter choices. I've read all I can on the subject and have come up with what I think is a good choice for me. I'm going to be getting the sub-receiver so I'm going to be getting 2 of each filter. At almost $300 a filter set I would hate to make a choice that I later have to replace. I'm new to CW and spend about an hour a night working CW on 80/40/30/20. I like to chase DX both CW and SSB. I do some contesting but I usually only have an hour or two in each contest to operate. I'm just too busy with family and work to put more into it. I would like to do more. I've never worked FM or AM/ESSB because I've never had the capability. I'm coming from an Orion II and really liked the diversity reception and want that back. I'm pretty sure about getting the: 2.8 Khz, 8 pole 1.8 Khz, 8 pole 400 Hz, 8 pole Wondering if I should put in the: 1.0 Khz, 8 pole 13 Khz FM Thanks for any thoughts on the choices. 73 Stan AE7UT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
I'm pretty sure about getting the: 2.8 Khz, 8 pole 1.8 Khz, 8 pole 400 Hz, 8 pole I doubt that the difference in performance justifies the upgrade charge for 2.8 vs. the standard 2.7 KHz filters - particularly if one is also getting 2.1 or 1.8 KHz narrow SSB filters. The savings nearly pays for the cost of one of the other filters. Wondering if I should put in the: 1.0 Khz, 8 pole 13 Khz FM If/when Wayne enables the use of the FM filter for AM and ESSB, adding the FM filter allows use of the remaining modes as well as providing wide AM for BCB/SWL listening. That makes the FM filter worthwhile (particularly if the cost is offset by using the standard 2.8 KHz SSB filter). My preference is for the 200 Hz filter (in only the main RX) rather than 1 KHz. I've not seen a place where the 1 KHz filter provides any benefit over the 1.8 KHz or 400 Hz filters. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 9/25/2012 1:20 PM, Stan AE7UT wrote: I'm asking for a little help with filter choices. I've read all I can on the subject and have come up with what I think is a good choice for me. I'm going to be getting the sub-receiver so I'm going to be getting 2 of each filter. At almost $300 a filter set I would hate to make a choice that I later have to replace. I'm new to CW and spend about an hour a night working CW on 80/40/30/20. I like to chase DX both CW and SSB. I do some contesting but I usually only have an hour or two in each contest to operate. I'm just too busy with family and work to put more into it. I would like to do more. I've never worked FM or AM/ESSB because I've never had the capability. I'm coming from an Orion II and really liked the diversity reception and want that back. I'm pretty sure about getting the: 2.8 Khz, 8 pole 1.8 Khz, 8 pole 400 Hz, 8 pole Wondering if I should put in the: 1.0 Khz, 8 pole 13 Khz FM Thanks for any thoughts on the choices. 73 Stan AE7UT -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Filter-suggestions-for-new-builder-tp7563280.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
I sceond Joe's comments. here: 2.7 , 2.1 , 400 and 200 in Main rx; 2.7 , 2.1 and 400 in Sub. 73 Arie PA3A Op 25-9-2012 20:08, Joe Subich, W4TV schreef: I'm pretty sure about getting the: 2.8 Khz, 8 pole 1.8 Khz, 8 pole 400 Hz, 8 pole I doubt that the difference in performance justifies the upgrade charge for 2.8 vs. the standard 2.7 KHz filters - particularly if one is also getting 2.1 or 1.8 KHz narrow SSB filters. The savings nearly pays for the cost of one of the other filters. .. My preference is for the 200 Hz filter (in only the main RX) rather than 1 KHz. I've not seen a place where the 1 KHz filter provides any benefit over the 1.8 KHz or 400 Hz filters. 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Hi Stan Mine is with FM/2.7k/2.1k/400/250 on both RX's. If you have on both RX same filters the diversity RD is a dream, otherwise if you are not planning to go for diversity you can mix any filter selection. My two cents 73 VE3GNO Daniel From: Stan AE7UT ae7...@gmail.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:20:37 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder I'm asking for a little help with filter choices. I've read all I can on the subject and have come up with what I think is a good choice for me. I'm going to be getting the sub-receiver so I'm going to be getting 2 of each filter. At almost $300 a filter set I would hate to make a choice that I later have to replace. I'm new to CW and spend about an hour a night working CW on 80/40/30/20. I like to chase DX both CW and SSB. I do some contesting but I usually only have an hour or two in each contest to operate. I'm just too busy with family and work to put more into it. I would like to do more. I've never worked FM or AM/ESSB because I've never had the capability. I'm coming from an Orion II and really liked the diversity reception and want that back. I'm pretty sure about getting the: 2.8 Khz, 8 pole 1.8 Khz, 8 pole 400 Hz, 8 pole Wondering if I should put in the: 1.0 Khz, 8 pole 13 Khz FM Thanks for any thoughts on the choices. 73 Stan AE7UT -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Filter-suggestions-for-new-builder-tp7563280.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
Thanks for all the feed-back. It looks like I'm at least in the right ball park. I definitely want the diversity reception so I'll be doubling most if not all filters. I've decided to stick with the 2.7 for now. I doubt my ears could hear the difference. Interesting that most here have gone with the 2.1 vs. the 1.8 KHz filters. I'm going to have to go home and listen closer to see if I like 2.1 or 1.8. Thanks again. You guys have been a tremendous help. 73 Stan AE7UT -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Filter-suggestions-for-new-builder-tp7563280p7563295.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
I would not assume most users prefer this. I have 2.8/1.8 and it suits me just fine, thank you. The 1.8 works well under contest conditions, when needed. Remember there is almost always a silent majority. 73, Bruce, N1RX Interesting that most here have gone with the 2.1 vs. the 1.8 KHz filters. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
That's right Bruce, Everyone to their own. I like the 2.8k filter too, and did try the 2.7k filter which you get mandatory in any case. I just preferred the difference I could hear in the tx/rx audio (tx sent back me recorded on test). I use both the 2.1k 1.8k and would not give up either. Also use 250hz cw rtty. If I could use that 13k for AM without a config change it would be perfect, I was hoping Wayne was serious when he asked Joe to be the guinea pg. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Beford Sent: Wednesday, 26 September 2012 6:13 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder I would not assume most users prefer this. I have 2.8/1.8 and it suits me just fine, thank you. The 1.8 works well under contest conditions, when needed. Remember there is almost always a silent majority. 73, Bruce, N1RX Interesting that most here have gone with the 2.1 vs. the 1.8 KHz filters. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
The subject of extra-narrow SSB bandwidths comes up fairly regularly. These 1.8 kHz (and even 1.5 kHz in use out there) bandwidths are not effective for everybody. The older I get, the less I can tolerate these narrow bandwidths for SSB, even in a contest. They give me listener's fatigue. I am amazed at those who are happy as clams listening in an 1800 Hz bandwidth. As has been said many times before, nothing beats the ear-brain combination's filtering ability. I find that hams who started copying signals at a young age can almost always do this better than others. The next time you work me in a contest I will be listening to you in a bandwidth of 2.5 kHz or greater, with QRM and splatter flying everywhere and my brain easily picking out signals in the midst of all of that. Stan, you're doing the right thing... spend extended time listening to these bandwidths before committing. Al W6LX I'm going to have to go home and listen closer to see if I like 2.1 or 1.8. 73 Stan AE7UT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
G'day, 2700Hz and 500Hz in both main and sub RX here. Nothing else, not felt the need, however, an FM filter could be added in one RX one day. There have been measurements which show that the 5-pole filters have superior group delay characteristics when compared to the 8-pole. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 25/09/2012 19:42, Al Lorona wrote: The subject of extra-narrow SSB bandwidths comes up fairly regularly. These 1.8 kHz (and even 1.5 kHz in use out there) bandwidths are not effective for everybody. The older I get, the less I can tolerate these narrow bandwidths for SSB, even in a contest. They give me listener's fatigue. I am amazed at those who are happy as clams listening in an 1800 Hz bandwidth. As has been said many times before, nothing beats the ear-brain combination's filtering ability. I find that hams who started copying signals at a young age can almost always do this better than others. The next time you work me in a contest I will be listening to you in a bandwidth of 2.5 kHz or greater, with QRM and splatter flying everywhere and my brain easily picking out signals in the midst of all of that. Stan, you're doing the right thing... spend extended time listening to these bandwidths before committing. Al W6LX I'm going to have to go home and listen closer to see if I like 2.1 or 1.8. 73 Stan AE7UT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Filter suggestions for new builder
On 9/25/2012 4:22 PM, Mike Harris wrote: 2700Hz and 500Hz in both main and sub RX here. Nothing else, not felt the need, however, an FM filter could be added in one RX one day. The only reason to agonize over roofing filters is, How many strong stations do you have near you? I have the two stock filters with my K3, no second RX, I have two very strong contesters within 2 KM of me, I don't have any problems. I can get within a KHz or so of either and work the station I'm calling. I don't know if my close neighbors like that, but I know them well and they haven't complained. :-) There have been measurements which show that the 5-pole filters have superior group delay characteristics when compared to the 8-pole. Might be a problem for some digital modes [not CW, the First Digital Mode], but some of the more esoteric modes could be affected. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 Weekend after next - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
