Re: [Elecraft] QRP and contesting

[Dave New, N8SBE]

On 2022-11-10 21:21, Bill Lederer wrote:

That is pretty impressive.

When I was first a ham, one of the locals was W7QYA, Flo, a school 
teacher
not far away. I had managed to crank my speed up to 40 (with some 
struggle)

but she said that was painfully slow for her. Her nominal speed was 65
wpm.  I have yet to get much above 40.


On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 12:47 PM Wayne Burdick  
wrote:



Funny story Last Field Day my son and a friend of his went camping
with our group. Neither of them are CW operators (yet), but they did 
know
the alphabet. They borrowed a MCU-controlled code-practice generator 
from
another op and were competing to see who could copy single letters at 
the

fastest rate.

When they got stuck at around 20 WPM, I said, "how fast does that 
thing
go?" It apparently would go much, much higher, into Morse nosebleed 
range.


Just for fun, I asked them to set it up to generate random English 
text at
45 WPM. I decoded enough of it to convince them that this code speed 
was in

my head-copy range. Then they started bumping it up another 5 WPM at a
time--a challenge! I was in some sort of zone that day. Maybe it was 
the
sunshine; maybe the idyllic sound of blue jays; maybe the 4-pack of 
White
Claw I'd scored at the liquor store. In the end I managed to copy 
several
words at 70 WPM. I'll never know if they were inspired or demoralized. 
They

shook their heads and went off on a 5 mile hike.

Wayne
N6KR



Reminds me of an op I knew that could copy RTTY in his head.

73,

-- Dave, N8SBE
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and contesting

[Bill Lederer]

That is pretty impressive.

When I was first a ham, one of the locals was W7QYA, Flo, a school teacher
not far away. I had managed to crank my speed up to 40 (with some struggle)
but she said that was painfully slow for her. Her nominal speed was 65
wpm.  I have yet to get much above 40.


On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 12:47 PM Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> Funny story Last Field Day my son and a friend of his went camping
> with our group. Neither of them are CW operators (yet), but they did know
> the alphabet. They borrowed a MCU-controlled code-practice generator from
> another op and were competing to see who could copy single letters at the
> fastest rate.
>
> When they got stuck at around 20 WPM, I said, "how fast does that thing
> go?" It apparently would go much, much higher, into Morse nosebleed range.
>
> Just for fun, I asked them to set it up to generate random English text at
> 45 WPM. I decoded enough of it to convince them that this code speed was in
> my head-copy range. Then they started bumping it up another 5 WPM at a
> time--a challenge! I was in some sort of zone that day. Maybe it was the
> sunshine; maybe the idyllic sound of blue jays; maybe the 4-pack of White
> Claw I'd scored at the liquor store. In the end I managed to copy several
> words at 70 WPM. I'll never know if they were inspired or demoralized. They
> shook their heads and went off on a 5 mile hike.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> > On Nov 10, 2022, at 10:16 AM, Alan Geller 
> wrote:
> >
> > Yea Wayne, thats the terrific Elecraft attitude that keeps your customer
> base strong and loyal.
> > Its called, “ lets all have fun and learn something” Hooray for the
> serious high speed ops, a
> > Lot of ex Navy guys, but its pretty easy to spot the slow lane and ease
> back into the fast lane.
> >
> > Happy Veterans Day youse guys….K6ADG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm in this group. Casual contest operation, usually QRP, mostly CW, and
> almost always logging by hand.
> >
> > I greatly appreciate all of the very serious ops out there who approach
> this with a high level of skill and give everyone -- regardless of ability
> -- that next QSO.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and contesting

[Edward Tanton]

Wow!! Awesome post. Thanks for sharing this. Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: Wayne Burdick  Date: 
11/10/22  1:46 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Alan Geller  Cc: 
Elecraft Reflector  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRP and 
contesting Funny story Last Field Day my son and a friend of his went 
camping with our group. Neither of them are CW operators (yet), but they did 
know the alphabet. They borrowed a MCU-controlled code-practice generator from 
another op and were competing to see who could copy single letters at the 
fastest rate. When they got stuck at around 20 WPM, I said, "how fast does that 
thing go?" It apparently would go much, much higher, into Morse nosebleed 
range. Just for fun, I asked them to set it up to generate random English text 
at 45 WPM. I decoded enough of it to convince them that this code speed was in 
my head-copy range. Then they started bumping it up another 5 WPM at a time--a 
challenge! I was in some sort of zone that day. Maybe it was the sunshine; 
maybe the idyllic sound of blue jays; maybe the 4-pack of White Claw I'd scored 
at the liquor store. In the end I managed to copy several words at 70 WPM. I'll 
never know if they were inspired or demoralized. They shook their heads and 
went off on a 5 mile hike.WayneN6KR> On Nov 10, 2022, at 10:16 AM, Alan Geller 
 wrote:> > Yea Wayne, thats the terrific Elecraft 
attitude that keeps your customer base strong and loyal. > Its called, “ lets 
all have fun and learn something” Hooray for the serious high speed ops, a > 
Lot of ex Navy guys, but its pretty easy to spot the slow lane and ease back 
into the fast lane.> > Happy Veterans Day youse guys….K6ADG> > > > > > I'm in 
this group. Casual contest operation, usually QRP, mostly CW, and almost always 
logging by hand.> > I greatly appreciate all of the very serious ops out there 
who approach this with a high level of skill and give everyone -- regardless of 
ability -- that next 
QSO.__Elecraft 
mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and contesting

[Wayne Burdick]

Funny story Last Field Day my son and a friend of his went camping with our 
group. Neither of them are CW operators (yet), but they did know the alphabet. 
They borrowed a MCU-controlled code-practice generator from another op and were 
competing to see who could copy single letters at the fastest rate. 

When they got stuck at around 20 WPM, I said, "how fast does that thing go?" It 
apparently would go much, much higher, into Morse nosebleed range. 

Just for fun, I asked them to set it up to generate random English text at 45 
WPM. I decoded enough of it to convince them that this code speed was in my 
head-copy range. Then they started bumping it up another 5 WPM at a time--a 
challenge! I was in some sort of zone that day. Maybe it was the sunshine; 
maybe the idyllic sound of blue jays; maybe the 4-pack of White Claw I'd scored 
at the liquor store. In the end I managed to copy several words at 70 WPM. I'll 
never know if they were inspired or demoralized. They shook their heads and 
went off on a 5 mile hike.

Wayne
N6KR


> On Nov 10, 2022, at 10:16 AM, Alan Geller  wrote:
> 
> Yea Wayne, thats the terrific Elecraft attitude that keeps your customer base 
> strong and loyal. 
> Its called, “ lets all have fun and learn something” Hooray for the serious 
> high speed ops, a 
> Lot of ex Navy guys, but its pretty easy to spot the slow lane and ease back 
> into the fast lane.
> 
> Happy Veterans Day youse guys….K6ADG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in this group. Casual contest operation, usually QRP, mostly CW, and 
> almost always logging by hand.
> 
> I greatly appreciate all of the very serious ops out there who approach this 
> with a high level of skill and give everyone -- regardless of ability -- that 
> next QSO.

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Rocco Conte]

Jim,

 I can't argue with that logic, I stand corrected!

73, Rocco - WU2M

On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 1:02 PM Jim Brown  wrote:

> On 11/10/2022 8:14 AM, Rocco Conte wrote:
> > No offence guys but shouldn't this be on a contest reflector and not the
> > Elecraft reflector?
>
> No, the folks on that reflector know this stuff. :) It's the casual
> contesters who don't.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] QRP and contesting

[Alan Geller via Elecraft]

Yea Wayne, thats the terrific Elecraft attitude that keeps your customer base 
strong and loyal. 
Its called, “ lets all have fun and learn something” Hooray for the serious 
high speed ops, a 
Lot of ex Navy guys, but its pretty easy to spot the slow lane and ease back 
into the fast lane.

Happy Veterans Day youse guys….K6ADG





I'm in this group. Casual contest operation, usually QRP, mostly CW, and almost 
always logging by hand.

I greatly appreciate all of the very serious ops out there who approach this 
with a high level of skill and give everyone -- regardless of ability -- that 
next QSO.
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Jim Brown]

On 11/10/2022 8:14 AM, Rocco Conte wrote:

No offence guys but shouldn't this be on a contest reflector and not the
Elecraft reflector?


No, the folks on that reflector know this stuff. :) It's the casual 
contesters who don't.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Rocco Conte]

No offence guys but shouldn't this be on a contest reflector and not the
Elecraft reflector?


On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 6:49 PM a**@sbcglobal 
wrote:

> By the way, Jim, in case you were wondering, you sounded absolutely superb
> here in KY. And you were not one of the offending Big Guns. I mean, yes,
> you’re a Big Gun but no, I didn’t have you in mind during my rant. You know
> what I mean. :^)
>
> Al W6LX/4
>
> > On Nov 9, 2022, at 6:
> > Great advice, Al.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> >
>
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

Definitely agree. I regularly operate in the CWops CWT activity at 
0300z, which is 0500 local time for me in the winter. I am limited at 
that time to 40m (I don't have an antenna for 80/160 and the higher 
bands are deader than a doornail).


The majority of my contacts at that hour are with stations in North 
America. I usually S because I am not loud enough there to hold a 
frequency (at least at the beginning). I find that the number of times 
my call is copied incorrectly by the runner goes up rapidly when I send 
at more than about 28 WPM.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 10/11/2022 5:06, David Gilbert wrote:


In the presences of a lot of background noise (as on 160m) slower speeds 
can sometimes improve readability.  Your ear/brain benefits from being 
able to integrate the tone over the noise.  Some years ago I did some 
experiments with that here:


http://www.ab7e.com/weak_signal/mdd.html   (toward the end of the page)

73,
Dave   Ab7E

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[David Gilbert]

In the presences of a lot of background noise (as on 160m) slower speeds 
can sometimes improve readability.  Your ear/brain benefits from being 
able to integrate the tone over the noise.  Some years ago I did some 
experiments with that here:


http://www.ab7e.com/weak_signal/mdd.html   (toward the end of the page)

73,
Dave   Ab7E





On 11/9/2022 6:56 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

I generally enjoy the ARRL 160m 'test as it is typically sub 30
WPM.

73, Nate, N0NB



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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2022 09 Nov 17:32 -0600, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 11/9/2022 3:18 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
> > Al, if you called CQ at 30WPM and they answered at 45WPM and you had to ask
> > for repeats, you are not the lid!
> 
> In my experience, the greatest abuse of wildly excessive sending speed has
> been in DX contests, mostly by Eastern EU ops, whether at home or on
> expeditions.

I got turned off of the CQWW DX CW 'test years ago because of the
absurdly high speeds, of course it is merely a callsign copying event.
OTOH, I generally enjoy the ARRL 160m 'test as it is typically sub 30
WPM.

73, Nate, N0NB

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
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GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[john]

This is all good contesting advice Mike, especially regarding working dupes.

Thanks for the SS QSO,
John KK9A



Mike Dodd N4CF wrote:

I'll toss in my two cents

I have fair-to-middlin' CW skills, and I've operated a lot of CW 
contests. I was surprised and disappointed to hear so many high-speed 
ops in this year's CW SS. In past years, I've been pleased with the 
moderate speeds.

When I'm operating S, I almost always adjust my TX speed to match the 
running station's speed. it's only a hit or two on N1MM's Page Down key. 
I figure that's the considerate thing to do.

I can comfortably copy at 25 wpm, so that's the speed I call CQ. If 
someone answers faster than I can copy, I don't hesitate to send QRS. If 
he ignores that comes back still too fast, I'll just hit F1 to start 
another CQ.

If I can't copy part of his exchange, I'll ask for a repeat. There are 
plenty of reasons for bad copy, not just speed. QSB and QRM were present 
last weekend. I don't need to explain why I asked for a repeat!

One final comment regarding dupes. The contesting club to which I belong 
has a mantra: "work all dupes!" There is no penalty, but there is the 
possibility that one op or both busted a QSO, so the second one is 
insurance. Just work 'em. you might take small time hit, but how much 
time would you spend sending B4 or DUPE, then explaining to the other op 
why you won't work him again?

-- 
73, Mike N4CF
Louisa County, VA USA
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500
Carolina Windom up 45'

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Mike Dodd]

On 11/9/2022 6:18 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

Al, if you called CQ at 30WPM and they answered at 45WPM and you had
to ask for repeats, you are not the lid!


I'll toss in my two cents

I have fair-to-middlin' CW skills, and I've operated a lot of CW 
contests. I was surprised and disappointed to hear so many high-speed 
ops in this year's CW SS. In past years, I've been pleased with the 
moderate speeds.


When I'm operating S, I almost always adjust my TX speed to match the 
running station's speed. it's only a hit or two on N1MM's Page Down key. 
I figure that's the considerate thing to do.


I can comfortably copy at 25 wpm, so that's the speed I call CQ. If 
someone answers faster than I can copy, I don't hesitate to send QRS. If 
he ignores that comes back still too fast, I'll just hit F1 to start 
another CQ.


If I can't copy part of his exchange, I'll ask for a repeat. There are 
plenty of reasons for bad copy, not just speed. QSB and QRM were present 
last weekend. I don't need to explain why I asked for a repeat!


One final comment regarding dupes. The contesting club to which I belong 
has a mantra: "work all dupes!" There is no penalty, but there is the 
possibility that one op or both busted a QSO, so the second one is 
insurance. Just work 'em. you might take small time hit, but how much 
time would you spend sending B4 or DUPE, then explaining to the other op 
why you won't work him again?


--
73, Mike N4CF
Louisa County, VA USA
Elecraft K4D / KPA500 / KAT500
Carolina Windom up 45'
http://n4cf.mdodd.com

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[a******@sbcglobal]

By the way, Jim, in case you were wondering, you sounded absolutely superb here 
in KY. And you were not one of the offending Big Guns. I mean, yes, you’re a 
Big Gun but no, I didn’t have you in mind during my rant. You know what I mean. 
:^)

Al W6LX/4

> On Nov 9, 2022, at 6:
> Great advice, Al. 
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Jim Brown]

On 11/9/2022 3:18 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

Al, if you called CQ at 30WPM and they answered at 45WPM and you had to ask
for repeats, you are not the lid!


In my experience, the greatest abuse of wildly excessive sending speed 
has been in DX contests, mostly by Eastern EU ops, whether at home or on 
expeditions.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[john]

Al, if you called CQ at 30WPM and they answered at 45WPM and you had to ask
for repeats, you are not the lid! If they were running at a higher  speed
that you're comfortable with, you probably could figure out their info from
QSOs before and after you. If it is not copyable you just have to move on. I
personally did not see that many super speed ops but I did not S until
late in the contest when most ops were begging.  There were definitely some
very good ops last weekend and I enjoyed all of my QSOs.

73,
John KK9A  (W4AAA in 2022 SS CW)



Al Lorona W6LX wrote:

I noticed this opposite phenomenon as soon as CW SS got started. It seemed
that the average CW speed was way up this year. (I hadn't operated the SS in
a couple of years, so this trend may have started a couple of years ago and
I just now have experienced it.) 

My CW skill is decent, but even I got into hot water when copying some
exchanges: Was that 378A? Or 377U? Asking for a repeat didn't always help,
because at 45 WPM slight multipath distortions in the ionosphere start to
mess with high-speed CW. Not a single op slowed down for me, even if I had
to ask for multiple repeats.

Then there's this: When you think about it, there's no incentive to help
someone like me copy correctly. After all, if I copy incorrectly, I'm the
one who gets penalized, not him. By asking for a repeat, all I'm doing (in
his mind) is slowing him down on his run frequency. And probably ticking him
off?

I mean, 30 WPM with no repeats is actually faster than 40 WPM with some
repeats.

You may say, "Well, Al, you're a lid for entering a contest if you're unable
to copy quickly enough to participate." Maybe so, but the obstinacy of
operating at 40+ WPM no matter what shows a colossal disdain for the Little
Pistols who are the bread and butter of the elite. 

R,

Al  W6LX/4

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Jim Brown]

On 11/9/2022 2:31 PM, Al Lorona wrote:

I mean, 30 WPM with no repeats is actually faster than 40 WPM with some repeats.


Great advice, Al. My friend N6TV, who has won SS several times, starts 
out in the 30s, but slows down towards the end of the contest. Nearly 
all of my operation was 26-28 wpm. I slowed down when someone needed it, 
but it's been observed that a lot of ops who send fairly slow are using 
readers, so that's rarely required. What's more important, I think, is 
sending good clean code.


One tactic I use in pileups is to send as fast as I think the other guy 
can copy, in the hope of sneaking more of my call into a gap between 
other callers. On these occasions, I'll get up to 34 wpm or so. A few 
times I've forgotten to slow back down, so ran for a while before I 
caught my mistake.


On 11/9/2022 2:45 PM, Andrew (A.J.) Stockton via Elecraft wrote:
> How about an online counter for ‘Please Copy’. {coming to SSB soon}.

I refuse to work anyone who says that. Those lids have soured my on SSB 
contesting, which I used to enjoy.


73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Andrew (A.J.) Stockton via Elecraft]

How about an online counter for ‘Please Copy’. {coming to SSB soon}. Need a 
quarter jar for that one…..

-AJ | NK4O

> On Nov 9, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Al Lorona  wrote:
> 
> This issue is a kind of double-edged sword that cuts not only newbies with 
> bad fists, but Big Guns with fists that are, well, *too* good.
> 
> I noticed this opposite phenomenon as soon as CW SS got started. It seemed 
> that the average CW speed was way up this year. (I hadn't operated the SS in 
> a couple of years, so this trend may have started a couple of years ago and I 
> just now have experienced it.) 
> 
> My CW skill is decent, but even I got into hot water when copying some 
> exchanges: Was that 378A? Or 377U? Asking for a repeat didn't always help, 
> because at 45 WPM slight multipath distortions in the ionosphere start to 
> mess with high-speed CW. Not a single op slowed down for me, even if I had to 
> ask for multiple repeats.
> 
> Then there's this: When you think about it, there's no incentive to help 
> someone like me copy correctly. After all, if I copy incorrectly, I'm the one 
> who gets penalized, not him. By asking for a repeat, all I'm doing (in his 
> mind) is slowing him down on his run frequency. And probably ticking him off?
> 
> I mean, 30 WPM with no repeats is actually faster than 40 WPM with some 
> repeats.
> 
> You may say, "Well, Al, you're a lid for entering a contest if you're unable 
> to copy quickly enough to participate." Maybe so, but the obstinacy of 
> operating at 40+ WPM no matter what shows a colossal disdain for the Little 
> Pistols who are the bread and butter of the elite. 
> 
> In two weeks we'll get to hear the Phone SS equivalent of this obstinacy: 
> absolutely nasty, overdriven, groaty, fingernails-on-a-chalkboard, bad audio. 
> How lovely.
> 
> R,
> 
> Al  W6LX/4
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Al Lorona]

This issue is a kind of double-edged sword that cuts not only newbies with bad 
fists, but Big Guns with fists that are, well, *too* good.

I noticed this opposite phenomenon as soon as CW SS got started. It seemed that 
the average CW speed was way up this year. (I hadn't operated the SS in a 
couple of years, so this trend may have started a couple of years ago and I 
just now have experienced it.) 

My CW skill is decent, but even I got into hot water when copying some 
exchanges: Was that 378A? Or 377U? Asking for a repeat didn't always help, 
because at 45 WPM slight multipath distortions in the ionosphere start to mess 
with high-speed CW. Not a single op slowed down for me, even if I had to ask 
for multiple repeats.

Then there's this: When you think about it, there's no incentive to help 
someone like me copy correctly. After all, if I copy incorrectly, I'm the one 
who gets penalized, not him. By asking for a repeat, all I'm doing (in his 
mind) is slowing him down on his run frequency. And probably ticking him off?

I mean, 30 WPM with no repeats is actually faster than 40 WPM with some repeats.

You may say, "Well, Al, you're a lid for entering a contest if you're unable to 
copy quickly enough to participate." Maybe so, but the obstinacy of operating 
at 40+ WPM no matter what shows a colossal disdain for the Little Pistols who 
are the bread and butter of the elite. 

In two weeks we'll get to hear the Phone SS equivalent of this obstinacy: 
absolutely nasty, overdriven, groaty, fingernails-on-a-chalkboard, bad audio. 
How lovely.

R,

Al  W6LX/4

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Byron Servies]

What stuff.

If you are going to operate with a key, you should have practiced enough 
beforehand to be able to send the entire exchange without an issue. One repeat 
at most.

That is all Jim is complaining about: be minimally competent.

73, Byron N6NUL

On Tue, Nov 8, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:
> Jim,
> 
> The alternative is that if one is new to CW (or to ham radio at all), 
> he/she should not operate in the Sweepstakes, and just let the 
> experienced ops have their fun. I'm sure you would not prefer that!
> 
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> CWops no. 5
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
> 
> On 08/11/2022 23:49, Jim Brown wrote:
> > I made more than 1,000 QSOs in Sweepstakes this weekend, and the most 
> > frustrating, by far, were from a couple of dozen QRPers who 1) never 
> > heard of dupe checking; and 2) sent by hand with pretty lousy fists. 
> > Late Sunday evening, while calling CQ on another band, I waited a couple 
> > of  minutes for a VA2 station to get a fill on the serial number from a 
> > QRPer who couldn't send it correctly, probably because he hadn't worked 
> > enough CW to have a decent fist. The problem was NOT signal strength. I 
> > had the same problem with half of the casual QRPers I worked.
> > 
> > Both of these problems are easily solved by using a contest logging 
> > program, both to log and to send CW. This is not a slam on QRP operation 
> > -- I've worked a lot of contests QRP, and one of my best buddies, W6JTI, 
> > WINS or places in the top two or three in the many contests he enters 
> > QRP. Frank made 554 QSOs in SS last weekend, and made the sweep of all 
> > 84 sections (NOT easy with HIGH power).
> > 
> > Why does this matter? Because MANY contesters take it seriously, and 
> > most can finish a Sweepstakes QSO in 30-40 seconds. Most of us, me 
> > included, are happy to work and encourage new contesters, but it's very 
> > frustrating when someone can't send CW due to lack of practice, and 
> > calls to work us a second or even a third time because he's too lazy to 
> > check of dupes, taking well over a minute to finish a QSO.
> > 
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __
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73, Byron N6NUL
-- 
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 7-8 Oct 2023
- www.cqp.org

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

Jim,

The alternative is that if one is new to CW (or to ham radio at all), 
he/she should not operate in the Sweepstakes, and just let the 
experienced ops have their fun. I'm sure you would not prefer that!


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco

On 08/11/2022 23:49, Jim Brown wrote:
I made more than 1,000 QSOs in Sweepstakes this weekend, and the most 
frustrating, by far, were from a couple of dozen QRPers who 1) never 
heard of dupe checking; and 2) sent by hand with pretty lousy fists. 
Late Sunday evening, while calling CQ on another band, I waited a couple 
of  minutes for a VA2 station to get a fill on the serial number from a 
QRPer who couldn't send it correctly, probably because he hadn't worked 
enough CW to have a decent fist. The problem was NOT signal strength. I 
had the same problem with half of the casual QRPers I worked.


Both of these problems are easily solved by using a contest logging 
program, both to log and to send CW. This is not a slam on QRP operation 
-- I've worked a lot of contests QRP, and one of my best buddies, W6JTI, 
WINS or places in the top two or three in the many contests he enters 
QRP. Frank made 554 QSOs in SS last weekend, and made the sweep of all 
84 sections (NOT easy with HIGH power).


Why does this matter? Because MANY contesters take it seriously, and 
most can finish a Sweepstakes QSO in 30-40 seconds. Most of us, me 
included, are happy to work and encourage new contesters, but it's very 
frustrating when someone can't send CW due to lack of practice, and 
calls to work us a second or even a third time because he's too lazy to 
check of dupes, taking well over a minute to finish a QSO.


73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Andrew Moore]

> Diving into SS CW when you are not prepared and then calling a good op
who is capable of over 1000 contacts elitist seems a bit childish

Hang on, that's not what happened. The inexperienced op who answered the
call of a high speed contest op didn't call anyone elitist. Those were two
different people.

In the interest of protecting and preserving the valuable spectrum we've
been allocated, it might be good for infighting to take a back seat, or at
least a less visible one (ie let's get along with each other in public
despite differences). There are plenty non-ham entities eager to profit
from our currently non profit bandwidth (ex: see 1988 FCC reallocation
order for 220-222 MHz), Cascading effects might include the snuffing out of
radio related, innovative small businesses, which ultimately isn't good for
our hobby, sport, interest, learning, advancement and service.

73 de NV1B
..




On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 7:39 PM Richard Hill  wrote:

> The point of the SST and MST contests is to provide newer cw ops with a
> contest training environment where the exchange is simple and new ops can
> practice sending and receiving and other basic operations like dupe
> checking in a friendly and mostly unhurried environment.  Diving into SS CW
> when you are not prepared and then calling a good op who is capable of over
> 1000 contacts elitist seems a bit childish, like a driver with a new
> license calling Indy 500 drivers elitist.
>
> Rich
> NU6T
>
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 3:53 PM Edward Tanton  wrote:
>
>> I am also in the 'by hand' group. I greatly enjoy the "process": a paper
>> dupe sheet, picking the next QSO, and entering the log information. For
>> various reasons I MAY partially fill out a QSL card. No, you don't win
>> categories, but my head & heart love itSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>>  Original message From: Wayne Burdick 
>> Date: 11/8/22  6:41 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Andrew Moore <
>> andrew.n...@gmail.com> Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting Andrew Moore <
>> andrew.n...@gmail.com> wrote:> For many of us...the joy of contesting>
>> is keying by hand and taking notes on paper...I'm in this group. Casual
>> contest operation, usually QRP, mostly CW, and almost always logging by
>> hand.I greatly appreciate all of the very serious ops out there who
>> approach this with a high level of skill and give everyone -- regardless of
>> ability -- that next QSO.WayneN6KR(Disclaimer: I'm not in the "still
>> learning CW" camp
>> :)__Elecraft
>> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.netThis
>> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email li
>>  st: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to n...@comcast.net
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>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Richard Hill]

The point of the SST and MST contests is to provide newer cw ops with a
contest training environment where the exchange is simple and new ops can
practice sending and receiving and other basic operations like dupe
checking in a friendly and mostly unhurried environment.  Diving into SS CW
when you are not prepared and then calling a good op who is capable of over
1000 contacts elitist seems a bit childish, like a driver with a new
license calling Indy 500 drivers elitist.

Rich
NU6T

On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 3:53 PM Edward Tanton  wrote:

> I am also in the 'by hand' group. I greatly enjoy the "process": a paper
> dupe sheet, picking the next QSO, and entering the log information. For
> various reasons I MAY partially fill out a QSL card. No, you don't win
> categories, but my head & heart love itSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>  Original message From: Wayne Burdick 
> Date: 11/8/22  6:41 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Andrew Moore <
> andrew.n...@gmail.com> Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting Andrew Moore <
> andrew.n...@gmail.com> wrote:> For many of us...the joy of contesting> is
> keying by hand and taking notes on paper...I'm in this group. Casual
> contest operation, usually QRP, mostly CW, and almost always logging by
> hand.I greatly appreciate all of the very serious ops out there who
> approach this with a high level of skill and give everyone -- regardless of
> ability -- that next QSO.WayneN6KR(Disclaimer: I'm not in the "still
> learning CW" camp
> :)__Elecraft
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-- 
Richard Hill
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2022 08 Nov 16:33 -0600, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> looks like someone is having a bad day

No.  Jim's comments are very apropos.  I am a causal contest op and I
always use a logging program with keying simply because it is the most
efficient means for me to do so and I have a very lousy fist that equals
my lousy handwriting (odd nerve impulses goof things up).  It is
imperative that the other station copy my callsign correctly so we both
get credit for the QSO.

I did not do SS but I get the same sort of dupe action operating in our
state QSO party, sometimes not more than a few minutes apart.  I can
only presume that either the op isn't actually logging or miscopied the
1x1 callsign I was using--there are only three of us operating with an
'N' suffix, K0N, N0N, W0N, which I guess is possible to miscopy.

Also, QRP is not an excuse to eschew computer logging and clean sending.
Some seem to take it to the extreme and think that Morse must be
generated by rubbing wires together.

73, Nate, N0NB

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Andrew Moore]

(to be clear: I have great respect and admiration for the hard-core CW
contest ops and their high speed skills)

NV1B
..


On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 6:27 PM Andrew Moore  wrote:

> Hi Jim -
>
> Among the best ways to get better at something is to practice, and often a
> better way is to practice while jumping into a live scenario (as opposed to
> simulated or offline) before you're reasonably proficient. I wouldn't
> recommend that approach for learning how to fly an airplane or drive a car,
> but for learning a spoken language or improving CW sending, sure.
> Non-contesting operation doesn't cease when big contests are running.
>
> > Both of these problems are easily solved by using a contest logging
> program, both to log and to send CW
>
> There's not a lot you can do to change their behavior, so why not focus on
> what you can control: Both could easily be solved by, when hearing a faint,
> sloppy QRP station answering your call, simply ignoring them. A bad fist
> should be easy to identify in a few seconds. Answer someone else, or call
> CQ again. Their feelings might be hurt briefly, but they'll understand and
> you won't waste time.
>
> For many of us, maybe not the hard core contesters, the joy of contesting
> is keying by hand and taking notes on paper, and don't have a lot of
> interest in tying a computer to the radio and sending by keyboard
> (excepting QRQ operation where using a keyboard is the only choice).
>
> All that said, I understand your frustration.
>
> 73/72,
> -Andrew NV1B
> ..
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 4:52 PM Jim Brown 
> wrote:
>
>> I made more than 1,000 QSOs in Sweepstakes this weekend, and the most
>> frustrating, by far, were from a couple of dozen QRPers who 1) never
>> heard of dupe checking; and 2) sent by hand with pretty lousy fists.
>> Late Sunday evening, while calling CQ on another band, I waited a couple
>> of  minutes for a VA2 station to get a fill on the serial number from a
>> QRPer who couldn't send it correctly, probably because he hadn't worked
>> enough CW to have a decent fist. The problem was NOT signal strength. I
>> had the same problem with half of the casual QRPers I worked.
>>
>> Both of these problems are easily solved by using a contest logging
>> program, both to log and to send CW. This is not a slam on QRP operation
>> -- I've worked a lot of contests QRP, and one of my best buddies, W6JTI,
>> WINS or places in the top two or three in the many contests he enters
>> QRP. Frank made 554 QSOs in SS last weekend, and made the sweep of all
>> 84 sections (NOT easy with HIGH power).
>>
>> Why does this matter? Because MANY contesters take it seriously, and
>> most can finish a Sweepstakes QSO in 30-40 seconds. Most of us, me
>> included, are happy to work and encourage new contesters, but it's very
>> frustrating when someone can't send CW due to lack of practice, and
>> calls to work us a second or even a third time because he's too lazy to
>> check of dupes, taking well over a minute to finish a QSO.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Edward Tanton]

I am also in the 'by hand' group. I greatly enjoy the "process": a paper dupe 
sheet, picking the next QSO, and entering the log information. For various 
reasons I MAY partially fill out a QSL card. No, you don't win categories, but 
my head & heart love itSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: Wayne Burdick  Date: 
11/8/22  6:41 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Andrew Moore  Cc: 
Elecraft Reflector  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRP and 
Contesting Andrew Moore  wrote:> For many of us...the 
joy of contesting> is keying by hand and taking notes on paper...I'm in this 
group. Casual contest operation, usually QRP, mostly CW, and almost always 
logging by hand.I greatly appreciate all of the very serious ops out there who 
approach this with a high level of skill and give everyone -- regardless of 
ability -- that next QSO.WayneN6KR(Disclaimer: I'm not in the "still learning 
CW" camp 
:)__Elecraft 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Wayne Burdick]

Andrew Moore  wrote:

> For many of us...the joy of contesting
> is keying by hand and taking notes on paper...

I'm in this group. Casual contest operation, usually QRP, mostly CW, and almost 
always logging by hand.

I greatly appreciate all of the very serious ops out there who approach this 
with a high level of skill and give everyone -- regardless of ability -- that 
next QSO.

Wayne
N6KR

(Disclaimer: I'm not in the "still learning CW" camp :)


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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Andrew Moore]

Hi Jim -

Among the best ways to get better at something is to practice, and often a
better way is to practice while jumping into a live scenario (as opposed to
simulated or offline) before you're reasonably proficient. I wouldn't
recommend that approach for learning how to fly an airplane or drive a car,
but for learning a spoken language or improving CW sending, sure.
Non-contesting operation doesn't cease when big contests are running.

> Both of these problems are easily solved by using a contest logging
program, both to log and to send CW

There's not a lot you can do to change their behavior, so why not focus on
what you can control: Both could easily be solved by, when hearing a faint,
sloppy QRP station answering your call, simply ignoring them. A bad fist
should be easy to identify in a few seconds. Answer someone else, or call
CQ again. Their feelings might be hurt briefly, but they'll understand and
you won't waste time.

For many of us, maybe not the hard core contesters, the joy of contesting
is keying by hand and taking notes on paper, and don't have a lot of
interest in tying a computer to the radio and sending by keyboard
(excepting QRQ operation where using a keyboard is the only choice).

All that said, I understand your frustration.

73/72,
-Andrew NV1B
..


On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 4:52 PM Jim Brown  wrote:

> I made more than 1,000 QSOs in Sweepstakes this weekend, and the most
> frustrating, by far, were from a couple of dozen QRPers who 1) never
> heard of dupe checking; and 2) sent by hand with pretty lousy fists.
> Late Sunday evening, while calling CQ on another band, I waited a couple
> of  minutes for a VA2 station to get a fill on the serial number from a
> QRPer who couldn't send it correctly, probably because he hadn't worked
> enough CW to have a decent fist. The problem was NOT signal strength. I
> had the same problem with half of the casual QRPers I worked.
>
> Both of these problems are easily solved by using a contest logging
> program, both to log and to send CW. This is not a slam on QRP operation
> -- I've worked a lot of contests QRP, and one of my best buddies, W6JTI,
> WINS or places in the top two or three in the many contests he enters
> QRP. Frank made 554 QSOs in SS last weekend, and made the sweep of all
> 84 sections (NOT easy with HIGH power).
>
> Why does this matter? Because MANY contesters take it seriously, and
> most can finish a Sweepstakes QSO in 30-40 seconds. Most of us, me
> included, are happy to work and encourage new contesters, but it's very
> frustrating when someone can't send CW due to lack of practice, and
> calls to work us a second or even a third time because he's too lazy to
> check of dupes, taking well over a minute to finish a QSO.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM]

looks like someone is having a bad day

we should create a contest only for smart people hi hi hi

even those who seem to be intelligent are wrong, who will have to do this
with Elecraft to publish it on this list?

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W


El mar, 8 nov 2022 a las 19:16, Jim Brown ()
escribió:

> On 11/8/2022 1:55 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:
> > And that is why a lot of hams are afraid of getting one the air with cw.
> > Elitist ops.
>
> An op who expects a caller to be able to send a two or three digit
> number in less than a minute is NOT elitist! An op who expects someone
> entering a contest to check for dupes when the contest rules clearly say
> you can work a station only once is NOT elitist. And I worked EVERY ONE
> of those dupes each time they called, without comment on the air.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Jim Brown]

On 11/8/2022 1:55 PM, Jerry Moore wrote:
And that is why a lot of hams are afraid of getting one the air with cw. 
Elitist ops.


An op who expects a caller to be able to send a two or three digit 
number in less than a minute is NOT elitist! An op who expects someone 
entering a contest to check for dupes when the contest rules clearly say 
you can work a station only once is NOT elitist. And I worked EVERY ONE 
of those dupes each time they called, without comment on the air.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Jerry Moore]

And that is why a lot of hams are afraid of getting one the air with cw. 
Elitist ops.

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on 
behalf of Jim Brown 
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2022 4:49:45 PM
To: Reflector Elecraft 
Subject: [Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

I made more than 1,000 QSOs in Sweepstakes this weekend, and the most
frustrating, by far, were from a couple of dozen QRPers who 1) never
heard of dupe checking; and 2) sent by hand with pretty lousy fists.
Late Sunday evening, while calling CQ on another band, I waited a couple
of  minutes for a VA2 station to get a fill on the serial number from a
QRPer who couldn't send it correctly, probably because he hadn't worked
enough CW to have a decent fist. The problem was NOT signal strength. I
had the same problem with half of the casual QRPers I worked.

Both of these problems are easily solved by using a contest logging
program, both to log and to send CW. This is not a slam on QRP operation
-- I've worked a lot of contests QRP, and one of my best buddies, W6JTI,
WINS or places in the top two or three in the many contests he enters
QRP. Frank made 554 QSOs in SS last weekend, and made the sweep of all
84 sections (NOT easy with HIGH power).

Why does this matter? Because MANY contesters take it seriously, and
most can finish a Sweepstakes QSO in 30-40 seconds. Most of us, me
included, are happy to work and encourage new contesters, but it's very
frustrating when someone can't send CW due to lack of practice, and
calls to work us a second or even a third time because he's too lazy to
check of dupes, taking well over a minute to finish a QSO.

73, Jim K9YC



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[Elecraft] QRP and Contesting

[Jim Brown]

I made more than 1,000 QSOs in Sweepstakes this weekend, and the most 
frustrating, by far, were from a couple of dozen QRPers who 1) never 
heard of dupe checking; and 2) sent by hand with pretty lousy fists. 
Late Sunday evening, while calling CQ on another band, I waited a couple 
of  minutes for a VA2 station to get a fill on the serial number from a 
QRPer who couldn't send it correctly, probably because he hadn't worked 
enough CW to have a decent fist. The problem was NOT signal strength. I 
had the same problem with half of the casual QRPers I worked.


Both of these problems are easily solved by using a contest logging 
program, both to log and to send CW. This is not a slam on QRP operation 
-- I've worked a lot of contests QRP, and one of my best buddies, W6JTI, 
WINS or places in the top two or three in the many contests he enters 
QRP. Frank made 554 QSOs in SS last weekend, and made the sweep of all 
84 sections (NOT easy with HIGH power).


Why does this matter? Because MANY contesters take it seriously, and 
most can finish a Sweepstakes QSO in 30-40 seconds. Most of us, me 
included, are happy to work and encourage new contesters, but it's very 
frustrating when someone can't send CW due to lack of practice, and 
calls to work us a second or even a third time because he's too lazy to 
check of dupes, taking well over a minute to finish a QSO.


73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Dan Presley]

Yes we were running about that rate on cw up here in Oregon. 4A 5w on our KX3s. 
Some of the visiting new hams had never seen real cw with a paddle (!) in 
action. We had 3 antennas-ZL special,2 element 40m wire beam and a rhombic 
switchable open/closed loop for either 20 or 80. They were all strung on a 550 
‘catenary ‘ line at about 75 feet between pine trees. I love holding a 
frequency with 5W :). And-no interference between the KX3s-not so the other 
brands that occasionally showed up. Call W7LT

Dan Presley 503-701-3871
danpresley@me. com 
n7...@arrl.net


> On Jun 25, 2019, at 08:28, Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> 
> Meanwhile, some CW stations were running contacts at a rate of several per 
> minute. With no automation :)
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2019, at 8:25 AM, Carl Jón Denbow  wrote:
>> 
>> Peter,
>> 
>> I am curious how you got FT8 to do the proper FD exchange?  I read a post 
>> where some hams were discussing this and it sounded very difficult and 
>> complex, so I decided against trying it.  One guy actually had two FT8 
>> programs running simultaneously, with one connected to HRD, which somehow 
>> enabled him to do the proper exchange.  His description made absolutely no 
>> sense to me, so though I’m an experienced FT8 op, I decided to forgo FT8 for 
>> this FD.  I’m curious how you accomplished this feat! 
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Carl
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ===
>> Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
>> 17 Coventry Lane
>> Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
>> 
>> c...@n8vz.com
>> www.n8vz.com
>> EM89wh
>> 
>> IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
>> 
>> PSK and JT65 Forever!
>> ===
>> 
>>> On Jun 25, 2019, at 9:37 AM, Peter West  wrote:
>>> 
>>> When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B 
>>> with my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery 
>>> pacs on my back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a 
>>> north-south orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad 
>>> here in the north with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best. So switched to 
>>> FT-8. I was forced to run QRP (which isn’t an issue as I am primarily a QRP 
>>> contester anyway) as anything over 5 watts caused the rig to overheat to 
>>> the point of automatically reducing power to 5 watts. Had WSJT, JT Alerts 
>>> and even N1MM all cooperating and auto logging so all I had to do was stop 
>>> reading the newspaper and occasionally glance over to the computer to see 
>>> if I had worked anybody since the last time I clicked on a callsign. Then I 
>>> started to notice my setup wasn’t completing a lot of calls which I had 
>>> initiated. I started to pay more attention to the screen and discovered 
>>> that it appeared to me that my signal was getting swamped out by QRO (100 
>>> watts or more on FD) signals which I couldn’t readily detect. At a 
>>> suggestion from the FT8 FB group switched on the hold-my-transmit-frequency 
>>> button. On CW my rates aren’t much different from QRP to 100 watts as I’m 
>>> only 2 S-units down and aggressive operating skills can compensate for a 
>>> lot of differences in power and I can deal with QRM I can hear and see. Not 
>>> so on FT-8. I am rebuilding my contest station and only have the end-fed 
>>> and an HF-2 vertical up right now and know that better results on QRP are 
>>> largely antenna and location dependent (oh to live on a saltwater marsh). 
>>> Running FT8 with the KX-2 on FD was an education and I’ve got to do some 
>>> thinking about how to improve my chances if I decide to try this again. All 
>>> in all great fun with some learning but can’t wait for more future 
>>> propagation. Maybe I should by the Elecraft amp LOL.
>>> __
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>> 
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[Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries and FT8 Report - reply

[Peter West]

Thanks to all who took the time to suggested a different category for me on FD 
but I was 1B - battery operating in my backyard with the KX-2 running 5 watts 
and not using my regular station in the basement. The antenna for the day 
(end-fed 40-20-10) was set up on the Saturday and the only AC power was used to 
power the logging computer although I could get around that too if I was so 
inclined. I even drove in a new ground rod. Sorry if I wasn’t clear enough.

Several requests about how I got WSJT-X, JT-Alerts, and N1MM working with the 
KX-2 I’ve answered directly but essentially whenever I have software issues I 
just reinstall everything and follow online videos or posts about what to 
switch on and what to switch off. Generally this works fine sooner or later. 
(Can’t wait to try setting up RTTY on my Flex 6600!)

BTW I’ve decided that the best way to contest using a weak-signal mode like 
FT-8 is to run at least a 100 watts into a big antenna at the proper height. A 
kilowatt would ensure success. 

73

Peter - VE3HG
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[aj4tf]

Bob,  I'm curious how you got the RC version to work during Field Day
weekend;  did you fake the date?




--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[ktalbott]

"good hike  away ... from home conveniences (... restrooms .. 
Kitchen ...)"
Rather ambiguous. So, if you can't shout at wife to bring you a beer, it's far 
enough?  My living room fits that description.  I'm on 80 acres, and since my 
hiking days are over, I have several favorite spots to which I can drive and 
operate primitively. Now if I could only get SOTA or POTA numbers assigned to 
each ..
Ken ke4rg
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Kidder, George
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2019 6:02 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

This would seem to be "from the horse's mouth"
 

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Kidder, George]

This would seem to be "from the horse's mouth"
Sorry about the formatting as copied from the PDF file - George, W3HBM

From: http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Field-Day/2019/2019-FD-FAQ-RevA.pdf

Q.  We don’t have an area club, but we do have a small group of area hams
  (generally two or three of us get together for
operating events).  I have a l
arge
-deep
  property, and w
e will be setting up in my back yard.
What Class would we be
?
Class A, Class B or ?
A. Convenient access across one’s backyard to their home station 
facilities is not in keeping with the spirit of Class A or C
lass B
portable operations. Such convenient backyard operations on property of 
home stations remain either Class D (commercial power)
or Class E (emergency power), even if home antenna structures are not 
used. If the station will be a ‘good hike’ away from a hom
e
station (
eg, at the rear of a several acre lot, or perhaps operating from a 
farmers field down the road) -
  clearly away from home
conveniences (away from home utilities, or home restrooms/bedrooms, or 
even eating
  facilities/refrigerator/kitchen)
- then Class A
(3 or more pers
ons portable) or Class B (1 or 2 person portable) is appropriate.

On 6/25/2019 2:52 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
> [This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to 
> ab...@ilstu.edu]
> 
> Interesting question. He reports:
> 
>> When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 
>> 1B with my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 
>> battery pacs on my back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ 
>> in a north-south orientation only to find band conditions here were 
>> pretty bad here in the north with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best.
> 
> It sounds like he was not depending on any of the home station
> infrastructure e.g. antennas, so I think that he was in class
> 1B, one or two person portable or even perhaps 1Bb if he was
> battery QRP. YMMV.
> 
> But see also: 6.9. Batteries may be charged while in use. Except
> for Class D stations, the batteries must be charged from a power
> source other than commercial power mains.  To claim the power
> multiplier of five, the batteries must be charged from something
> other than a motor driven generator or commercial mains.
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> On 6/25/19 at 11:20 AM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:
> 
>> On 6/25/2019 6:37 AM, Peter West wrote:
>>> When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 
>>> 1B with my trusty
>> KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery pacs on my 
>> back porch.
>>
>> FWIW, that puts you in 1E, not 1B.
> -
>  
> 
> Bill Frantz    | Government is not reason, it is not
> eloquence, it is force; like
> 408-356-8506   | a fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful
> master. Never for a
> www.pwpconsult.com | moment should it be left to irresponsible
> action. Geo Washington
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Howard Hoyt]

Peter,

You can get significantly more key-down time or run more FT8 power if you 
install our Kx22 heatsink:
(https://proaudioeng.com/pae-kx22-heatsink-elecraft-kx2/).  With the heatsink 
installed the rig still fits all of the cases Elecraft sells for the KX2.  
Running 5 watts FT8 is usually productive, but this past weekend here in NC our 
propagation was terrible for FD, seemingly worse that that for the west coast...

Cheers & 73,
Howie / WA4PSC


Peter West wrote:
I was forced to run QRP (which isn't an issue as I am primarily a 
QRP contester anyway) as anything over 5 watts caused the rig to

overheat to the point of automatically reducing power to 5 watts.


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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

One FT-8 cycle is 15 seconds transmit, 15 seconds receive.  I construe 
that to be one cycle.   FT-4 is 7.5 seconds transmit, and 7.5 seconds 
receive. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "cycle" terminology.


I found a good bit of FT-8 and FT-4 activity on 6M during FD.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 6/25/2019 2:30 PM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:

Thanks, Bob.  Useful information on the current releases.

I believe you meant to say that FT8 is 15 seconds between overs and FT4 is 
about 8 seconds.  At least that’s what Joe Taylor K1JT said at the Flex Radio 
Banquet was the plan for FT4.  Sounds like an exciting contest mode.

73,

Carl

Sent from my iPhone
===
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
  
c...@n8vz.com

www.n8vz.com
EM89wh
  
IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
  
PSK and JT65 Forever!

===


On Jun 25, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

You can find the latest version {2.0.1}  of WSJT-X here: 


https://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/ 



Also you can find version 2.1.0-RC-7 at the same site.  It is / has the FT-4 
contesting mode.  This mode runs 15 second intervals where FT-8 runs 30 second 
intervals.

Be sure and read the manual regarding installation and operation of each one as 
they are a wee bit different. I have and used versions both during Field 
Day.   Very easy to install and operate.

73
Bob, K4TAX




On 6/25/2019 1:56 PM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:
Thanks, Gentlemen.  I guess I must not have the latest version of WSJT-X, or I 
somehow missed that feature.  I do have a 2.x version.  I wish I had known 
about that because I was running a low power 1B station on SSB with a very 
compromised antenna system and would have done much better on FT8.  Maybe I can 
try it out for Winter FD.

When I read that thread about all the hoops those guys were going through it 
discouraged me from pursuing that option.  I’m kind of angry at myself at this 
point for not pursuing it more diligently!
  73,

Carl

Sent from my iPhone
===
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
  c...@n8vz.com
www.n8vz.com
EM89wh
  IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
  PSK and JT65 Forever!
===


On Jun 25, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

The WSJT-X software does have a provision for the correct Field Day exchange 
found under the Advanced tab.   I worked several stations on FT-8 and also on 
FT-4 with the latest version.Most activity was on FT-8 of which a lot was 
found on 6M.   There are a few issues with RC-7 for FT-4.  These are noted on 
the release page.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 6/25/2019 10:25 AM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:
Peter,

I am curious how you got FT8 to do the proper FD exchange?  I read a post where 
some hams were discussing this and it sounded very difficult and complex, so I 
decided against trying it.  One guy actually had two FT8 programs running 
simultaneously, with one connected to HRD, which somehow enabled him to do the 
proper exchange.  His description made absolutely no sense to me, so though I’m 
an experienced FT8 op, I decided to forgo FT8 for this FD.  I’m curious how you 
accomplished this feat!

73,

Carl

Sent from my iPhone
===
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
  c...@n8vz.com
www.n8vz.com
EM89wh
  IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
  PSK and JT65 Forever!
===


On Jun 25, 2019, at 9:37 AM, Peter West  wrote:

When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B with 
my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery pacs on my 
back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a north-south 
orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad here in the north 
with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best. So switched to FT-8. I was forced to 
run QRP (which isn’t an issue as I am primarily a QRP contester anyway) as 
anything over 5 watts caused the rig to overheat to the point of automatically 
reducing power to 5 watts. Had WSJT, JT Alerts and even N1MM all cooperating 
and auto logging so all I had to do was stop reading the newspaper and 
occasionally glance over to the computer to see if I had worked anybody since 
the last time I clicked on a callsign. Then I started to notice my setup wasn’t 
completing a lot of calls which I had initiated. I started to pay more 
attention to the screen and discovered that it appeared to me that my signal 
was getting swamped out by QRO (100 watts or more on FD) signals which I 
couldn’t readily detect. At a suggestion from the FT8 FB group switched on the 
hold-my-transmit-frequency button. On CW my rates aren’t much different from 
QRP to 100 watts as I’m only 2 S-units down and aggressive operating skills can 
compensate for a lot 

Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Carl Jón Denbow]

Thanks, Bob.  Useful information on the current releases.

I believe you meant to say that FT8 is 15 seconds between overs and FT4 is 
about 8 seconds.  At least that’s what Joe Taylor K1JT said at the Flex Radio 
Banquet was the plan for FT4.  Sounds like an exciting contest mode.

73,

Carl

Sent from my iPhone
===
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
 
c...@n8vz.com
www.n8vz.com
EM89wh
 
IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
 
PSK and JT65 Forever!
===

> On Jun 25, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> You can find the latest version {2.0.1}  of WSJT-X here: 
> 
> 
> https://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/ 
> 
> 
> 
> Also you can find version 2.1.0-RC-7 at the same site.  It is / has the FT-4 
> contesting mode.  This mode runs 15 second intervals where FT-8 runs 30 
> second intervals.
> 
> Be sure and read the manual regarding installation and operation of each one 
> as they are a wee bit different. I have and used versions both during 
> Field Day.   Very easy to install and operate.
> 
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> 
>> On 6/25/2019 1:56 PM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:
>> Thanks, Gentlemen.  I guess I must not have the latest version of WSJT-X, or 
>> I somehow missed that feature.  I do have a 2.x version.  I wish I had known 
>> about that because I was running a low power 1B station on SSB with a very 
>> compromised antenna system and would have done much better on FT8.  Maybe I 
>> can try it out for Winter FD.
>> 
>> When I read that thread about all the hoops those guys were going through it 
>> discouraged me from pursuing that option.  I’m kind of angry at myself at 
>> this point for not pursuing it more diligently!
>>  73,
>> 
>> Carl
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ===
>> Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
>> 17 Coventry Lane
>> Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
>>  c...@n8vz.com
>> www.n8vz.com
>> EM89wh
>>  IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
>>  PSK and JT65 Forever!
>> ===
>> 
>>> On Jun 25, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The WSJT-X software does have a provision for the correct Field Day 
>>> exchange found under the Advanced tab.   I worked several stations on FT-8 
>>> and also on FT-4 with the latest version.Most activity was on FT-8 of 
>>> which a lot was found on 6M.   There are a few issues with RC-7 for FT-4.  
>>> These are noted on the release page.
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>> 
 On 6/25/2019 10:25 AM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:
 Peter,
 
 I am curious how you got FT8 to do the proper FD exchange?  I read a post 
 where some hams were discussing this and it sounded very difficult and 
 complex, so I decided against trying it.  One guy actually had two FT8 
 programs running simultaneously, with one connected to HRD, which somehow 
 enabled him to do the proper exchange.  His description made absolutely no 
 sense to me, so though I’m an experienced FT8 op, I decided to forgo FT8 
 for this FD.  I’m curious how you accomplished this feat!
 
 73,
 
 Carl
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 ===
 Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
 17 Coventry Lane
 Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
  c...@n8vz.com
 www.n8vz.com
 EM89wh
  IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
  PSK and JT65 Forever!
 ===
 
> On Jun 25, 2019, at 9:37 AM, Peter West  wrote:
> 
> When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B 
> with my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery 
> pacs on my back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a 
> north-south orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad 
> here in the north with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best. So switched to 
> FT-8. I was forced to run QRP (which isn’t an issue as I am primarily a 
> QRP contester anyway) as anything over 5 watts caused the rig to overheat 
> to the point of automatically reducing power to 5 watts. Had WSJT, JT 
> Alerts and even N1MM all cooperating and auto logging so all I had to do 
> was stop reading the newspaper and occasionally glance over to the 
> computer to see if I had worked anybody since the last time I clicked on 
> a callsign. Then I started to notice my setup wasn’t completing a lot of 
> calls which I had initiated. I started to pay more attention to the 
> screen and discovered that it appeared to me that my signal was getting 
> swamped out by QRO (100 watts or more on FD) signals which I couldn’t 
> readily detect. At a suggestion from the FT8 FB group switched on the 
> hold-my-transmit-frequency button. On CW my rates aren’t much different 
> from QRP to 100 watts as I’m only 2 S-units 

Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[John Oppenheimer]

Covered in ARRL FD FAQ:
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Field-Day/2019/2019-FD-FAQ-RevA.pdf

convenient backyard operations on property of home stations remain
either Class D (commercial power) or Class E (emergency power), even if
home antenna structures are not used

John KN5L

On 6/25/19 1:52 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
> Interesting question. He reports:
> 
>> When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B 
>> with my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery pacs 
>> on my back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a north-south 
>> orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad here in the 
>> north with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best.
> It sounds like he was not depending on any of the home station 
> infrastructure e.g. antennas, so I think that he was in class 
> 1B, one or two person portable or even perhaps 1Bb if he was 
> battery QRP. YMMV.
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

You can find the latest version {2.0.1}  of WSJT-X here: 



https://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/ 




Also you can find version 2.1.0-RC-7 at the same site.  It is / has the 
FT-4 contesting mode.  This mode runs 15 second intervals where FT-8 
runs 30 second intervals.


Be sure and read the manual regarding installation and operation of each 
one as they are a wee bit different. I have and used versions both 
during Field Day.   Very easy to install and operate.


73
Bob, K4TAX



On 6/25/2019 1:56 PM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:

Thanks, Gentlemen.  I guess I must not have the latest version of WSJT-X, or I 
somehow missed that feature.  I do have a 2.x version.  I wish I had known 
about that because I was running a low power 1B station on SSB with a very 
compromised antenna system and would have done much better on FT8.  Maybe I can 
try it out for Winter FD.

When I read that thread about all the hoops those guys were going through it 
discouraged me from pursuing that option.  I’m kind of angry at myself at this 
point for not pursuing it more diligently!
  
73,


Carl

Sent from my iPhone
===
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
  
c...@n8vz.com

www.n8vz.com
EM89wh
  
IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
  
PSK and JT65 Forever!

===


On Jun 25, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

The WSJT-X software does have a provision for the correct Field Day exchange 
found under the Advanced tab.   I worked several stations on FT-8 and also on 
FT-4 with the latest version.Most activity was on FT-8 of which a lot was 
found on 6M.   There are a few issues with RC-7 for FT-4.  These are noted on 
the release page.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 6/25/2019 10:25 AM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:
Peter,

I am curious how you got FT8 to do the proper FD exchange?  I read a post where 
some hams were discussing this and it sounded very difficult and complex, so I 
decided against trying it.  One guy actually had two FT8 programs running 
simultaneously, with one connected to HRD, which somehow enabled him to do the 
proper exchange.  His description made absolutely no sense to me, so though I’m 
an experienced FT8 op, I decided to forgo FT8 for this FD.  I’m curious how you 
accomplished this feat!

73,

Carl

Sent from my iPhone
===
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
  c...@n8vz.com
www.n8vz.com
EM89wh
  IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
  PSK and JT65 Forever!
===


On Jun 25, 2019, at 9:37 AM, Peter West  wrote:

When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B with 
my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery pacs on my 
back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a north-south 
orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad here in the north 
with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best. So switched to FT-8. I was forced to 
run QRP (which isn’t an issue as I am primarily a QRP contester anyway) as 
anything over 5 watts caused the rig to overheat to the point of automatically 
reducing power to 5 watts. Had WSJT, JT Alerts and even N1MM all cooperating 
and auto logging so all I had to do was stop reading the newspaper and 
occasionally glance over to the computer to see if I had worked anybody since 
the last time I clicked on a callsign. Then I started to notice my setup wasn’t 
completing a lot of calls which I had initiated. I started to pay more 
attention to the screen and discovered that it appeared to me that my signal 
was getting swamped out by QRO (100 watts or more on FD) signals which I 
couldn’t readily detect. At a suggestion from the FT8 FB group switched on the 
hold-my-transmit-frequency button. On CW my rates aren’t much different from 
QRP to 100 watts as I’m only 2 S-units down and aggressive operating skills can 
compensate for a lot of differences in power and I can deal with QRM I can hear 
and see. Not so on FT-8. I am rebuilding my contest station and only have the 
end-fed and an HF-2 vertical up right now and know that better results on QRP 
are largely antenna and location dependent (oh to live on a saltwater marsh). 
Running FT8 with the KX-2 on FD was an education and I’ve got to do some 
thinking about how to improve my chances if I decide to try this again. All in 
all great fun with some learning but can’t wait for more future propagation. 
Maybe I should by the Elecraft amp LOL.
__
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Carl Jón Denbow]

Thanks, Gentlemen.  I guess I must not have the latest version of WSJT-X, or I 
somehow missed that feature.  I do have a 2.x version.  I wish I had known 
about that because I was running a low power 1B station on SSB with a very 
compromised antenna system and would have done much better on FT8.  Maybe I can 
try it out for Winter FD.  

When I read that thread about all the hoops those guys were going through it 
discouraged me from pursuing that option.  I’m kind of angry at myself at this 
point for not pursuing it more diligently! 
 
73,

Carl

Sent from my iPhone
===
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
 
c...@n8vz.com
www.n8vz.com
EM89wh
 
IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
 
PSK and JT65 Forever!
===

> On Jun 25, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> The WSJT-X software does have a provision for the correct Field Day exchange 
> found under the Advanced tab.   I worked several stations on FT-8 and also on 
> FT-4 with the latest version.Most activity was on FT-8 of which a lot was 
> found on 6M.   There are a few issues with RC-7 for FT-4.  These are noted on 
> the release page.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
>> On 6/25/2019 10:25 AM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:
>> Peter,
>> 
>> I am curious how you got FT8 to do the proper FD exchange?  I read a post 
>> where some hams were discussing this and it sounded very difficult and 
>> complex, so I decided against trying it.  One guy actually had two FT8 
>> programs running simultaneously, with one connected to HRD, which somehow 
>> enabled him to do the proper exchange.  His description made absolutely no 
>> sense to me, so though I’m an experienced FT8 op, I decided to forgo FT8 for 
>> this FD.  I’m curious how you accomplished this feat!
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Carl
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ===
>> Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
>> 17 Coventry Lane
>> Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
>>  c...@n8vz.com
>> www.n8vz.com
>> EM89wh
>>  IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
>>  PSK and JT65 Forever!
>> ===
>> 
>>> On Jun 25, 2019, at 9:37 AM, Peter West  wrote:
>>> 
>>> When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B 
>>> with my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery 
>>> pacs on my back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a 
>>> north-south orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad 
>>> here in the north with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best. So switched to 
>>> FT-8. I was forced to run QRP (which isn’t an issue as I am primarily a QRP 
>>> contester anyway) as anything over 5 watts caused the rig to overheat to 
>>> the point of automatically reducing power to 5 watts. Had WSJT, JT Alerts 
>>> and even N1MM all cooperating and auto logging so all I had to do was stop 
>>> reading the newspaper and occasionally glance over to the computer to see 
>>> if I had worked anybody since the last time I clicked on a callsign. Then I 
>>> started to notice my setup wasn’t completing a lot of calls which I had 
>>> initiated. I started to pay more attention to the screen and discovered 
>>> that it appeared to me that my signal was getting swamped out by QRO (100 
>>> watts or more on FD) signals which I couldn’t readily detect. At a 
>>> suggestion from the FT8 FB group switched on the hold-my-transmit-frequency 
>>> button. On CW my rates aren’t much different from QRP to 100 watts as I’m 
>>> only 2 S-units down and aggressive operating skills can compensate for a 
>>> lot of differences in power and I can deal with QRM I can hear and see. Not 
>>> so on FT-8. I am rebuilding my contest station and only have the end-fed 
>>> and an HF-2 vertical up right now and know that better results on QRP are 
>>> largely antenna and location dependent (oh to live on a saltwater marsh). 
>>> Running FT8 with the KX-2 on FD was an education and I’ve got to do some 
>>> thinking about how to improve my chances if I decide to try this again. All 
>>> in all great fun with some learning but can’t wait for more future 
>>> propagation. Maybe I should by the Elecraft amp LOL.
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to n...@qth.com
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Bill Frantz]

Interesting question. He reports:


When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B with 
my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery pacs on my 
back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a north-south 
orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad here in the north 
with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best.


It sounds like he was not depending on any of the home station 
infrastructure e.g. antennas, so I think that he was in class 
1B, one or two person portable or even perhaps 1Bb if he was 
battery QRP. YMMV.


But see also: 6.9. Batteries may be charged while in use. Except 
for Class D stations, the batteries must be charged from a power 
source other than commercial power mains.  To claim the power 
multiplier of five, the batteries must be charged from something 
other than a motor driven generator or commercial mains.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/25/19 at 11:20 AM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:


On 6/25/2019 6:37 AM, Peter West wrote:

When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B with 
my trusty

KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery pacs on my back porch.

FWIW, that puts you in 1E, not 1B.

-
Bill Frantz| Government is not reason, it is not 
eloquence, it is force; like
408-356-8506   | a fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful 
master. Never for a
www.pwpconsult.com | moment should it be left to irresponsible 
action. Geo Washington


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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Jim Brown]

On 6/25/2019 6:37 AM, Peter West wrote:

When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B with 
my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery pacs on my 
back porch.


FWIW, that puts you in 1E, not 1B.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Jim Brown]

On 6/25/2019 8:25 AM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:

I am curious how you got FT8 to do the proper FD exchange?


Simple. Read the WSJT-X online manual! There's a setup option on the 
Advanced tab specifically for FD.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

The WSJT-X software does have a provision for the correct Field Day 
exchange found under the Advanced tab.   I worked several stations on 
FT-8 and also on FT-4 with the latest version.    Most activity was on 
FT-8 of which a lot was found on 6M.   There are a few issues with RC-7 
for FT-4.  These are noted on the release page.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 6/25/2019 10:25 AM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:

Peter,

I am curious how you got FT8 to do the proper FD exchange?  I read a post where 
some hams were discussing this and it sounded very difficult and complex, so I 
decided against trying it.  One guy actually had two FT8 programs running 
simultaneously, with one connected to HRD, which somehow enabled him to do the 
proper exchange.  His description made absolutely no sense to me, so though I’m 
an experienced FT8 op, I decided to forgo FT8 for this FD.  I’m curious how you 
accomplished this feat!

73,

Carl

Sent from my iPhone
===
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
  
c...@n8vz.com

www.n8vz.com
EM89wh
  
IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
  
PSK and JT65 Forever!

===


On Jun 25, 2019, at 9:37 AM, Peter West  wrote:

When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B with 
my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery pacs on my 
back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a north-south 
orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad here in the north 
with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best. So switched to FT-8. I was forced to 
run QRP (which isn’t an issue as I am primarily a QRP contester anyway) as 
anything over 5 watts caused the rig to overheat to the point of automatically 
reducing power to 5 watts. Had WSJT, JT Alerts and even N1MM all cooperating 
and auto logging so all I had to do was stop reading the newspaper and 
occasionally glance over to the computer to see if I had worked anybody since 
the last time I clicked on a callsign. Then I started to notice my setup wasn’t 
completing a lot of calls which I had initiated. I started to pay more 
attention to the screen and discovered that it appeared to me that my signal 
was getting swamped out by QRO (100 watts or more on FD) signals which I 
couldn’t readily detect. At a suggestion from the FT8 FB group switched on the 
hold-my-transmit-frequency button. On CW my rates aren’t much different from 
QRP to 100 watts as I’m only 2 S-units down and aggressive operating skills can 
compensate for a lot of differences in power and I can deal with QRM I can hear 
and see. Not so on FT-8. I am rebuilding my contest station and only have the 
end-fed and an HF-2 vertical up right now and know that better results on QRP 
are largely antenna and location dependent (oh to live on a saltwater marsh). 
Running FT8 with the KX-2 on FD was an education and I’ve got to do some 
thinking about how to improve my chances if I decide to try this again. All in 
all great fun with some learning but can’t wait for more future propagation. 
Maybe I should by the Elecraft amp LOL.
__
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Brian Waterworth]

Hi Carl,

One of our club stations (6m) wanted to operate FT8.  I asked him to
install wsjt-x before coming onsite.  I then configured wsjtx-x for him.
It took less than 30s to do that.  Wsjt-x has an ARRL field day mode with
an entry field to add in your exchange.  Click click click and you’re
done.  It is very simple and wsjtx handles the cadence and the FD exchange
like a boss.  Wsjtx seemed to handle most situations and made operating a
joy.  It also gave me an opportunity to teach other hams and visitors how
to operate FT8 using wsjt-x because of its ease.

I used also wsjtx for my digital station as paired with a KX3.  I used the
KX3 with solar power to gain a 100 point bonus.  The KX3 was a champ.
Handled the voltage variances from the panel by automatically reducing
power from 10w down to 5w when the voltage wasn't quite enough for 10w.

Regards
Brian
VE3IBW

On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 8:27 AM Carl Jón Denbow  wrote:

> Peter,
>
> I am curious how you got FT8 to do the proper FD exchange?  I read a post
> where some hams were discussing this and it sounded very difficult and
> complex, so I decided against trying it.  One guy actually had two FT8
> programs running simultaneously, with one connected to HRD, which somehow
> enabled him to do the proper exchange.  His description made absolutely no
> sense to me, so though I’m an experienced FT8 op, I decided to forgo FT8
> for this FD.  I’m curious how you accomplished this feat!
>
> 73,
>
> Carl
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ===
> Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
> 17 Coventry Lane
> Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
>
> c...@n8vz.com
> www.n8vz.com
> EM89wh
>
> IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
>
> PSK and JT65 Forever!
> ===
>
> > On Jun 25, 2019, at 9:37 AM, Peter West  wrote:
> >
> > When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B
> with my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery
> pacs on my back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a
> north-south orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad
> here in the north with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best. So switched to
> FT-8. I was forced to run QRP (which isn’t an issue as I am primarily a QRP
> contester anyway) as anything over 5 watts caused the rig to overheat to
> the point of automatically reducing power to 5 watts. Had WSJT, JT Alerts
> and even N1MM all cooperating and auto logging so all I had to do was stop
> reading the newspaper and occasionally glance over to the computer to see
> if I had worked anybody since the last time I clicked on a callsign. Then I
> started to notice my setup wasn’t completing a lot of calls which I had
> initiated. I started to pay more attention to the screen and discovered
> that it appeared to me that my signal was getting swamped out by QRO (100
> watts or more on FD) signals which I couldn’t readily detect. At a
> suggestion from the FT8 FB group switched on the hold-my-transmit-frequency
> button. On CW my rates aren’t much different from QRP to 100 watts as I’m
> only 2 S-units down and aggressive operating skills can compensate for a
> lot of differences in power and I can deal with QRM I can hear and see. Not
> so on FT-8. I am rebuilding my contest station and only have the end-fed
> and an HF-2 vertical up right now and know that better results on QRP are
> largely antenna and location dependent (oh to live on a saltwater marsh).
> Running FT8 with the KX-2 on FD was an education and I’ve got to do some
> thinking about how to improve my chances if I decide to try this again. All
> in all great fun with some learning but can’t wait for more future
> propagation. Maybe I should by the Elecraft amp LOL.
> > __
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Wayne Burdick]

Meanwhile, some CW stations were running contacts at a rate of several per 
minute. With no automation :)

Wayne
N6KR


> On Jun 25, 2019, at 8:25 AM, Carl Jón Denbow  wrote:
> 
> Peter,
> 
> I am curious how you got FT8 to do the proper FD exchange?  I read a post 
> where some hams were discussing this and it sounded very difficult and 
> complex, so I decided against trying it.  One guy actually had two FT8 
> programs running simultaneously, with one connected to HRD, which somehow 
> enabled him to do the proper exchange.  His description made absolutely no 
> sense to me, so though I’m an experienced FT8 op, I decided to forgo FT8 for 
> this FD.  I’m curious how you accomplished this feat! 
> 
> 73,
> 
> Carl
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ===
> Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
> 17 Coventry Lane
> Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
> 
> c...@n8vz.com
> www.n8vz.com
> EM89wh
> 
> IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
> 
> PSK and JT65 Forever!
> ===
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2019, at 9:37 AM, Peter West  wrote:
>> 
>> When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B 
>> with my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery pacs 
>> on my back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a north-south 
>> orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad here in the 
>> north with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best. So switched to FT-8. I was 
>> forced to run QRP (which isn’t an issue as I am primarily a QRP contester 
>> anyway) as anything over 5 watts caused the rig to overheat to the point of 
>> automatically reducing power to 5 watts. Had WSJT, JT Alerts and even N1MM 
>> all cooperating and auto logging so all I had to do was stop reading the 
>> newspaper and occasionally glance over to the computer to see if I had 
>> worked anybody since the last time I clicked on a callsign. Then I started 
>> to notice my setup wasn’t completing a lot of calls which I had initiated. I 
>> started to pay more attention to the screen and discovered that it appeared 
>> to me that my signal was getting swamped out by QRO (100 watts or more on 
>> FD) signals which I couldn’t readily detect. At a suggestion from the FT8 FB 
>> group switched on the hold-my-transmit-frequency button. On CW my rates 
>> aren’t much different from QRP to 100 watts as I’m only 2 S-units down and 
>> aggressive operating skills can compensate for a lot of differences in power 
>> and I can deal with QRM I can hear and see. Not so on FT-8. I am rebuilding 
>> my contest station and only have the end-fed and an HF-2 vertical up right 
>> now and know that better results on QRP are largely antenna and location 
>> dependent (oh to live on a saltwater marsh). Running FT8 with the KX-2 on FD 
>> was an education and I’ve got to do some thinking about how to improve my 
>> chances if I decide to try this again. All in all great fun with some 
>> learning but can’t wait for more future propagation. Maybe I should by the 
>> Elecraft amp LOL.
>> __
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>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to n...@qth.com
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Carl Jón Denbow]

Peter,

I am curious how you got FT8 to do the proper FD exchange?  I read a post where 
some hams were discussing this and it sounded very difficult and complex, so I 
decided against trying it.  One guy actually had two FT8 programs running 
simultaneously, with one connected to HRD, which somehow enabled him to do the 
proper exchange.  His description made absolutely no sense to me, so though I’m 
an experienced FT8 op, I decided to forgo FT8 for this FD.  I’m curious how you 
accomplished this feat! 

73,

Carl

Sent from my iPhone
===
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
 
c...@n8vz.com
www.n8vz.com
EM89wh
 
IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
 
PSK and JT65 Forever!
===

> On Jun 25, 2019, at 9:37 AM, Peter West  wrote:
> 
> When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B with 
> my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery pacs on my 
> back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a north-south 
> orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad here in the 
> north with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best. So switched to FT-8. I was 
> forced to run QRP (which isn’t an issue as I am primarily a QRP contester 
> anyway) as anything over 5 watts caused the rig to overheat to the point of 
> automatically reducing power to 5 watts. Had WSJT, JT Alerts and even N1MM 
> all cooperating and auto logging so all I had to do was stop reading the 
> newspaper and occasionally glance over to the computer to see if I had worked 
> anybody since the last time I clicked on a callsign. Then I started to notice 
> my setup wasn’t completing a lot of calls which I had initiated. I started to 
> pay more attention to the screen and discovered that it appeared to me that 
> my signal was getting swamped out by QRO (100 watts or more on FD) signals 
> which I couldn’t readily detect. At a suggestion from the FT8 FB group 
> switched on the hold-my-transmit-frequency button. On CW my rates aren’t much 
> different from QRP to 100 watts as I’m only 2 S-units down and aggressive 
> operating skills can compensate for a lot of differences in power and I can 
> deal with QRM I can hear and see. Not so on FT-8. I am rebuilding my contest 
> station and only have the end-fed and an HF-2 vertical up right now and know 
> that better results on QRP are largely antenna and location dependent (oh to 
> live on a saltwater marsh). Running FT8 with the KX-2 on FD was an education 
> and I’ve got to do some thinking about how to improve my chances if I decide 
> to try this again. All in all great fun with some learning but can’t wait for 
> more future propagation. Maybe I should by the Elecraft amp LOL.
> __
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[Elecraft] QRP FD KX2 Batteries & FT8 Report

[Peter West]

When our club’s plans for FD fell through at the last minute I set up 1B with 
my trusty KX-2 with a Bioenno battery and two internal KX2 battery pacs on my 
back porch. Got a Par 40-20-10 end-fed up about 40’ in a north-south 
orientation only to find band conditions here were pretty bad here in the north 
with QRN, QSB and faint signals at best. So switched to FT-8. I was forced to 
run QRP (which isn’t an issue as I am primarily a QRP contester anyway) as 
anything over 5 watts caused the rig to overheat to the point of automatically 
reducing power to 5 watts. Had WSJT, JT Alerts and even N1MM all cooperating 
and auto logging so all I had to do was stop reading the newspaper and 
occasionally glance over to the computer to see if I had worked anybody since 
the last time I clicked on a callsign. Then I started to notice my setup wasn’t 
completing a lot of calls which I had initiated. I started to pay more 
attention to the screen and discovered that it appeared to me that my signal 
was getting swamped out by QRO (100 watts or more on FD) signals which I 
couldn’t readily detect. At a suggestion from the FT8 FB group switched on the 
hold-my-transmit-frequency button. On CW my rates aren’t much different from 
QRP to 100 watts as I’m only 2 S-units down and aggressive operating skills can 
compensate for a lot of differences in power and I can deal with QRM I can hear 
and see. Not so on FT-8. I am rebuilding my contest station and only have the 
end-fed and an HF-2 vertical up right now and know that better results on QRP 
are largely antenna and location dependent (oh to live on a saltwater marsh). 
Running FT8 with the KX-2 on FD was an education and I’ve got to do some 
thinking about how to improve my chances if I decide to try this again. All in 
all great fun with some learning but can’t wait for more future propagation. 
Maybe I should by the Elecraft amp LOL.
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Re: [Elecraft] [QRP-L] AlexLoop FS

[Niel Skousen]

Sorry for bad grammar Gang;

I will send via USPS Flat Rate, the day after payment.   Some one thought I was 
saying I’d use Next Day shipping - not so ...

Niel
WA7SSA
Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 14, 2019, at 07:40, Niel Skousen  wrote:
> 
> Good Afternoon Gang,
> 
> I am selling my AlexLoop with a small camera tripod.
> PayPal ok ( niel(dot)skousen(at)gmail.com  ) will USPS 
> next day 
> 
> Asking $325 conus, + actual freight for other shipping requests.
> 
> Niel
> WA7SSA
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[Elecraft] QRP-L email list

[Joseph Trombino, Jr]

Howdy Gang.

I’ve been getting emails on the Elecraft reflector today but stopped getting 
emails on the QRP-L since around noontime.

I sent a note out to the QRP-L but no response in the past 2 hours.

Anyone what’s going on with the QRP-L email reflector?

Elecraft content…I just bought an NC40A (Wayne N6KR designer) and look forward 
to getting it on the air soonest.

73, Joe W2KJ
I QRP, therefore I am
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[Elecraft] QRP Multimeter

[Don Sanders]

For those who are not able to go to Harbor Freight and need a small
multimeter at a QRP price.
Check this out:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-Piece-DT-832-Digital-LCD-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Ohm-Tester-Multimeter-Buzzer-Diagnostic-tool-VEH58/32863880413.html?spm=2114.11010108.06001.48.650c649bwFwqVB=5347592=1007.13562.105726.0_id=1007.13562.105726.0=1007.13562.105726.0=9e4a87b1-ee27-4dfb-ab6c-ed859a846f77

Dr. Don W4BWS

Ham Radio may not make the world go around.

Ham Radio just makes the voyage more enjoyable.
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[Elecraft] QRP GOTA

[Bob Cutter]

I know, QRP SSB during FD at the bottom of the cycle. What a surprise, all 15 
or so candidates made one or more contact. 

Our regular GOTA guy for Ski Country ARC, K0RV-2A Colorado, took a year off so 
I volunteered.  We used my VW Camper, end fed UNUN and KX3.

Here are some observations:

1.  The small foot print of the KX3 and Camper seemed to relax people. 

2.  Dual head phones helped in tuning a signal, so important during crowded 
conditions. 

3.  The KX3 filters did a fine job on QRM from the other two nearby 100 watt 
transmitters. 

4.  I participated in a large Multi-Multi CQWW operation where there was a 
"desk clerk" bell at each station which was rung when we got a new Multi. I 
honked the horn instead for each new GOTA contact. The reaction from everyone 
was amazing. 

72, Bob KI0G 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

[Todd]

I've  done Diablo several times, usually right before Pacificon.  The 
one time I did North Peak,
it was worse RF wise than Diablo.  I also found that most times I'd be 
the only one up there
after dark, with the exception of the Park Ranger, and even he was 
scarce after dark  ;-)


Iffen I recall correctly, they close the entrance gate after 8pm and 
you'll have almost the

whole park to your self...

How about Angel Island?   That's a spot on my bucket list one of these 
days.  Black Mtn
comes to mind also.  SOTA peak and a hike in campground there as well, 
W6/NC-150:

http://www.openspace.org/sites/default/files/map_MB.pdf

Have fun and GL!

73, Todd KH2TJ






Phil Kane wrote:

On 6/6/2017 2:32 PM, Chris Tate - N6WM wrote:

   

Ya no campfires.. but this is a good time for Juniper campground at
Mt Diablo..  get some elevation on that qrp signal..  SOTA W6/CC-045.
you can drive right up to your camp area..
 


But be aware that Mt. Diablo is "RF city" with all the communication
sites up there on both North Peak and South Peak.  (I used to maintain
one.).  Not much HF if any but plenty of VHF, UHF, and microwave.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402


   

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Quite so. It's been a number of years since I drove up and down that
mountain several times a week servicing repeaters for General Communications
Engineering, but there were also a number of repeaters there in the old Land
Mobile frequency range of 30 to 50 MHz as well as the VHF and UHF repeaters.


Ron AC7AC 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil Kane
Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 2:56 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

On 6/6/2017 2:32 PM, Chris Tate - N6WM wrote:

> Ya no campfires.. but this is a good time for Juniper campground at Mt 
> Diablo..  get some elevation on that qrp signal..  SOTA W6/CC-045.
> you can drive right up to your camp area..

But be aware that Mt. Diablo is "RF city" with all the communication sites
up there on both North Peak and South Peak.  (I used to maintain one.).  Not
much HF if any but plenty of VHF, UHF, and microwave.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

[Chris Tate - N6WM]

I have been to Juniper a couple of times.. HF qrp is pretty good from there..  
there are trees with steep drop offs as well to experiment with various wire 
configs..

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil Kane
Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 2:56 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

On 6/6/2017 2:32 PM, Chris Tate - N6WM wrote:

> Ya no campfires.. but this is a good time for Juniper campground at Mt 
> Diablo..  get some elevation on that qrp signal..  SOTA W6/CC-045.
> you can drive right up to your camp area..

But be aware that Mt. Diablo is "RF city" with all the communication sites up 
there on both North Peak and South Peak.  (I used to maintain one.).  Not much 
HF if any but plenty of VHF, UHF, and microwave.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

[Phil Kane]

On 6/6/2017 2:32 PM, Chris Tate - N6WM wrote:

> Ya no campfires.. but this is a good time for Juniper campground at
> Mt Diablo..  get some elevation on that qrp signal..  SOTA W6/CC-045.
> you can drive right up to your camp area..

But be aware that Mt. Diablo is "RF city" with all the communication
sites up there on both North Peak and South Peak.  (I used to maintain
one.).  Not much HF if any but plenty of VHF, UHF, and microwave.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

[Chris Tate - N6WM]

Ya no campfires.. but this is a good time for Juniper campground at Mt Diablo.. 
 get some elevation on that qrp signal..  SOTA W6/CC-045.  you can drive right 
up to your camp area..

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on 
behalf of David Satterwhite via Elecraft [elecraft@mailman.qth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 1:26 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

 Hello everyone, I'm looking to go camping or Backpacking this weekend with my 
QRP set up and have some fun. Not to sure where a good place is in the Bay area 
or surrounding areas for that would be. I would prefer to get away from the 
crowds, some where I can have a small camp fire, bring my dog, and of course 
have decent propagation.
My short list so far is Mt. Diablo, or Black Diamond mines.
Does anybody have any other suggestions? I'm just getting back into the 
camping/back packing scene and would like to integrate QRP with it!
Thanks, Dave KM6P
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

For a combination of campfires and great operating environment you might
look into one of the beaches on the coast, such as New Brighton State Park
in Capitola, just south of Santa Cruz on the Monterey Bay. You probably
won't have any issues with a campfire in the locations designated for
camping and it's hard to beat the effects of that huge, unobstructed ground
plane to the west that we call the Pacific Ocean. 

I'm sure there are many other camping beaches that a little on-line research
will turn up. It's been a couple of decades since I lived in Capitola. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Satterwhite via
Elecraft
Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 1:27 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

 Hello everyone, I'm looking to go camping or Backpacking this weekend with
my QRP set up and have some fun. Not to sure where a good place is in the
Bay area or surrounding areas for that would be. I would prefer to get away
from the crowds, some where I can have a small camp fire, bring my dog, and
of course have decent propagation.
My short list so far is Mt. Diablo, or Black Diamond mines.
Does anybody have any other suggestions? I'm just getting back into the
camping/back packing scene and would like to integrate QRP with it!
Thanks, Dave KM6P
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

[Rick WA6NHC]

You might want to look at Samuel P Taylor State Park in Marin County.  
There is nearby hiking and it's not far from the Point Reyes area 
(GGNRA) for varied hiking chances.



Rick wa6nhc/7


On 6/6/2017 1:26 PM, David Satterwhite via Elecraft wrote:

  Hello everyone, I'm looking to go camping or Backpacking this weekend with my 
QRP set up and have some fun. Not to sure where a good place is in the Bay area 
or surrounding areas for that would be. I would prefer to get away from the 
crowds, some where I can have a small camp fire, bring my dog, and of course 
have decent propagation.
My short list so far is Mt. Diablo, or Black Diamond mines.
Does anybody have any other suggestions? I'm just getting back into the 
camping/back packing scene and would like to integrate QRP with it!
Thanks, Dave KM6P
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

[Walter Underwood]

Probably already too late for campfires this season. There have been brush 
fires along the sides of the road this week.

There are some great campsites in Sunol Regional Park. Check the Sunol Backpack 
Area. They are about 3-4 miles from the trailhead. Pretty sure those are 
no-campfire areas. Dogs allowed for day visitors only, according to their 
website.

http://www.ebparks.org/activities/camping/backpacking#sunol 


Sanborn County Park allows dogs.

https://www.sccgov.org/sites/parks/parkfinder/pages/sanborn.aspx 


Dogs are allowed in the headquarters campground at Henry Coe SP, but not in the 
backcountry. Also, no campfires in the backcountry, ever.

https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=561 

A google search for "dog friendly camping bay area” showed some sites that 
might be helpful.

Finally, you probably need a California Campfire Permit. Those are needed even 
for gas stoves. The only time you don’t need them is in established campgrounds 
(like drive-in) or on your own private property.

http://www.preventwildfireca.org/Campfire-Permit/ 


Also, the regs about campfires and liability.

http://www.fire.ca.gov/communications/downloads/fact_sheets/campfiretips.pdf 


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 1:26 PM, David Satterwhite via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone, I'm looking to go camping or Backpacking this weekend with my 
> QRP set up and have some fun. Not to sure where a good place is in the Bay 
> area or surrounding areas for that would be. I would prefer to get away from 
> the crowds, some where I can have a small camp fire, bring my dog, and of 
> course have decent propagation.
> My short list so far is Mt. Diablo, or Black Diamond mines.
> Does anybody have any other suggestions? I'm just getting back into the 
> camping/back packing scene and would like to integrate QRP with it!
> Thanks, Dave KM6P
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[Elecraft] QRP and Camping/Back packing in the Bay Area

[David Satterwhite via Elecraft]

 Hello everyone, I'm looking to go camping or Backpacking this weekend with my 
QRP set up and have some fun. Not to sure where a good place is in the Bay area 
or surrounding areas for that would be. I would prefer to get away from the 
crowds, some where I can have a small camp fire, bring my dog, and of course 
have decent propagation.
My short list so far is Mt. Diablo, or Black Diamond mines.
Does anybody have any other suggestions? I'm just getting back into the 
camping/back packing scene and would like to integrate QRP with it!
Thanks, Dave KM6P
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[Elecraft] QRP/outdoors/SOTA/KX2 presentation at the Palm Springs hamfest - content streaming question

[Arthur Gunn]

In an earlier posting I wondered if this hamfest will be streaming the speakers 
sessions. The special interest had been Wayne’s KX2 talk about its features for 
SOTA type of field trips. The hamfest organizer has advised me that this 
hamfest will not be streamed as I had inquired.

Art Gunn VE9BP
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP/outdoors/SOTA/KX2 presentation at the Palm Springs hamfest, Feb. 4th

[John AE5X]

And the ability to monitor amp-hours consumed is more than just a gee-whiz 
feature. It is quite a useful attribute allowing one to fairly accurately judge 
how much longer a battery will last.

John AE5X
http://ae5x.blogspot.com/



Affordable Wireless Plans
Set up is easy. Get online in minutes.
Starting at only $14.95 per month! 
www.netzero.net?refcd=nzmem0216
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP/outdoors/SOTA/KX2 presentation at the Palm Springs hamfest, Feb. 4th

[Wayne Burdick]

I forgot to add: built-in tilt-stand for 3-point placement on rough surfaces, 
and a form factor that allows for rapid-deployment, HT-style operation with 
whip antennas.

Wayne


On Jan 12, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> Hi Arthur,
> 
> I'm not sure if anyone will be videoing Don's talk (I'm just an interloper). 
> You might ask the hamfest organizers.
> 
> Regarding the KX2's optimizations applicable to SOTA, here's the short 
> version: 
> 
> Small size, low current drain, long battery life, high power output, 9-band 
> coverage, SSB/CW/DATA modes, wide-range ATU that works with ad-hoc antennas, 
> built-in mic, attached keyer paddle, daylight-readable backlit display, 
> CW/DATA and DVR message buffers, and many DSP features for weak-signal work 
> including APF, dual watch, NR, and NB.
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> On Jan 12, 2017, at 7:01 AM, Arthur Gunn  wrote:
> 
>> The subject hamfest is too far away to attend but "the SOTA related 
>> optimizations embodied in the KX2" that Wayne will talk about is of great 
>> interest. Wayne, is there a way to share this information or the 
>> presentation with us after your Feb 4 presentation?
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Art Gunn VE9BP
>> arthur.g...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP/outdoors/SOTA/KX2 presentation at the Palm Springs hamfest, Feb. 4th

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi Arthur,

I'm not sure if anyone will be videoing Don's talk (I'm just an interloper). 
You might ask the hamfest organizers.

Regarding the KX2's optimizations applicable to SOTA, here's the short version: 

Small size, low current drain, long battery life, high power output, 9-band 
coverage, SSB/CW/DATA modes, wide-range ATU that works with ad-hoc antennas, 
built-in mic, attached keyer paddle, daylight-readable backlit display, CW/DATA 
and DVR message buffers, and many DSP features for weak-signal work including 
APF, dual watch, NR, and NB.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jan 12, 2017, at 7:01 AM, Arthur Gunn  wrote:

> The subject hamfest is too far away to attend but "the SOTA related 
> optimizations embodied in the KX2" that Wayne will talk about is of great 
> interest. Wayne, is there a way to share this information or the presentation 
> with us after your Feb 4 presentation?
> 
> 73
> 
> Art Gunn VE9BP
> arthur.g...@gmail.com



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[Elecraft] QRP/outdoors/SOTA/KX2 presentation at the Palm Springs hamfest, Feb. 4th

[Arthur Gunn]

The subject hamfest is too far away to attend but "the SOTA related 
optimizations embodied in the KX2" that Wayne will talk about is of great 
interest. Wayne, is there a way to share this information or the presentation 
with us after your Feb 4 presentation?

73

Art Gunn VE9BP
arthur.g...@gmail.com

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[Elecraft] QRP/outdoors/SOTA/KX2 presentation at the Palm Springs hamfest, Feb. 4th

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi all,

Don Minkoff, NK6A, will be giving a talk on outdoor QRP operation and Summits 
on the Air (SOTA) at the Palm Springs Hamfest on Feb. 4th. 

I'll be joining Don to describe some related optimizations embodied in the 
Elecraft KX2.

See you there!

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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[Elecraft] QRP Rig Donation Needed!

[w6...@w6sfm.com]

Hello group, Many of you are already aware of the Halfway House for keys 
Program. We are a group that provides low cost to FREE straight keys for 
Young, newly licensed Amateurs who don't have the resources or support 
to purchase one of their own.  At this time we are working with a young 
man of 17 who is in need of a QRP rig of some sort. More information on 
our group can be found on the front page of the SKCC homepage.  Our 
group is ready to provide this person with a key, however we do have 
some regulations that dictate that the recipient must also have some 
type of working radio and antenna to get on the air.



We would like to ask if anyone in this group, or others you know may 
have a working QRP transceiver that they can donate to the Halfway house 
for keys program so we can get this young man started on his way with 
CW.  This not only benefits the user, but also benefits all Amateur 
Radio operators by keeping the CW bands alive.  It is very important 
that we support our youth, as they will be the next generation keeping 
the bands alive with not only CW but other modes as well.



If you can help us help him (and others like him) please contact me off 
the group so we can arrange something together.  Thank you for all your 
support and help with this matter.  73,



Michael

N6MQL

n6mql at w6sfm dot com  (email spelled out to keep spam to a minimum)

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[David Woolley]

315w exceeds the total power budget for the Voyager 1 spacecraft, which 
is currently 254.6 watts.


The only reference to the transmitter power I can find suggests that it 
is 20 watts.  The 315 is probably EIRP, but that is not what was being 
quoted for the Pluto probe.  They both seem to have the same actual PA 
output power.


So at over 36 hours round trip light travel time  (0.002 light years 
range), Voyager 1 scores a lot more points compared with less than 9 
hours for the Pluto probe which has the same power, but with 12dB less 
free space path loss.


--
David Woolley
Owner K2 06123

On 16/07/15 20:46, Brian D wrote:

Voyager is still going strong many times further away than Pluto, 315w to a
3.7m dish. from over 19 billion KM.


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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[Matthew Cook]

Lets not forget to include Madrid (Spain) and Canberra (Australia) in the
above story, without them Goldstone cant do it on it's own.  One station
may start the transmission, but every 8-12hrs each station seamlessly hands
over to the next to provide continuous coverage at the earth rotates.  It's
even more important for Voyager with a transmission path of 18 hours, now
that is mind blowing stuff.

73

Matthew
VK5ZM

On 17 July 2015 at 04:28, Fred Townsend fptowns...@earthlink.net wrote:

 Mike You can do the math for path loss. The formulas are well known.
 Perhaps less known is the rest of the story. The probe is using its high
 gain (dish) antenna, perhaps 20 db. Since it is a dish antenna it must be
 aimed! The probe is programmed to aim its antennas periodically since it
 can not be commanded to turn its antenna.
 Back at this end, the Goldstone antennas have about 60db gain with
 cryogenically cooled noise figures of 1. I'm guessing the receiver
 sensitivity at around ---150 to -170 dbm using a very narrow bandwidth and
 correlation techniques similar to what is used on GPS receivers.
 Transmission flight of path is  six hours.
 73
 Fred, AE6QL


SNIP
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[Edward R Cole]

Uhuh - and how many of you have worked such DX?smile

The signal level seen on earth is 4E-19 or -196 dBw (subtract 30-dB 
to yield -166 dBm).  The path loss at Pluto (31.9AU) is without 
including antenna gain 303.5 dB.  Interesting that I read they plan 
to run 600bps at 36AU.


Other numbers of interest is downlink f=8.438 GHz, downlink antenna 
(2.1m dish) gain is +42 dB and Tx power is 12-15w (say +41 dBm); 
spacecraft EIRP = 42+41 = +83 dBm.  -303.5+83 = -220.5 dBm.  Add gain 
of ground antenna +73 dBi (70m dish): -220.5+73 = -146.5 dBm


Your K3 MDS is -145 dBm at B=500 Hz

Just for grins I substituted my dish (4.9m) with gain 49.7 dBi and 
signal to my Rx would be -220.5+49.7 = -170.8 dBm
If I use a really narrow bandwidth I might see a signal trace using 
something like spectravue sw.


A ham has received Pioneer's signal in such a manner when it was 
beyond Pluto's orbit.  It was not easy!


73, Ed - KL7UW
---

From: brian als...@nc.rr.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)
Message-ID: 55a80893.4040...@nc.rr.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

It would seem that the DX record is held by the Voygers which long ago
left the solar system.
I don't know their power but they still check in from way beyond
Pluto.   So NewHorizons is DX but not real DX YET.

73 de Brian/K3KO
On 7/16/2015 18:31 PM, Scott Simpson wrote:
 some discussion including calculation of losses around 147db here:

 
https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/3d93en/the_radio_signal_from_the_new_horizons_spacecraft/



73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Kits made by KL7UW
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[Jeff Stai]

I decided to spend a minute googling, here's a paper with a lot of cool
tech details:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.466.3341rep=rep1type=pdf

73 jeff wk6i

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jeff Stai wk6i.j...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well, at least they have big antennas. ;) I read the other day on the NOVA
 website that New Horizons will be downloading the data acquired in the
 flyby at a data rate of only 1 kb/s - think 1200 baud modem for those of
 you old enough to remember them. And there was another fascinating article
 there about how they use Reed-Solomon error correcting codes to compensate
 for the inevitable bit errors and reduce the need for retransmission (and
 now using the same RS code for DNA data storage, very cool stuff.)

 Nothing about the path loss, but knowing the data rate is so low, and that
 the RS code is probably good for a considerable error burst of several
 bits, that should at least give you a sense of what the loss might be!

 73 jeff wk6i

 On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 11:10 AM, a...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 Heard last night on  Nova program that the transmitter on the Pathfinder
 Pluto probe was 10 watts.  Anyone have a clue as to the signal path loss at
 3 billion miles and what levels the deep space dish receiving networks are
 dealing with?   Incredible that the data stream can be extracted from the
 noise.
 Mike  AC5P
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 --
 Jeff Stai ~ wk6i.j...@gmail.com
 Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/
 Facebook ~ http://www.facebook.com/twistedoak




-- 
Jeff Stai ~ wk6i.j...@gmail.com
Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/
Facebook ~ http://www.facebook.com/twistedoak
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[Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[ac5p]

Heard last night on  Nova program that the transmitter on the Pathfinder Pluto 
probe was 10 watts.  Anyone have a clue as to the signal path loss at 3 billion 
miles and what levels the deep space dish receiving networks are dealing with?  
 Incredible that the data stream can be extracted from the noise.  
Mike  AC5P  
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[Jeff Stai]

Well, at least they have big antennas. ;) I read the other day on the NOVA
website that New Horizons will be downloading the data acquired in the
flyby at a data rate of only 1 kb/s - think 1200 baud modem for those of
you old enough to remember them. And there was another fascinating article
there about how they use Reed-Solomon error correcting codes to compensate
for the inevitable bit errors and reduce the need for retransmission (and
now using the same RS code for DNA data storage, very cool stuff.)

Nothing about the path loss, but knowing the data rate is so low, and that
the RS code is probably good for a considerable error burst of several
bits, that should at least give you a sense of what the loss might be!

73 jeff wk6i

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 11:10 AM, a...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 Heard last night on  Nova program that the transmitter on the Pathfinder
 Pluto probe was 10 watts.  Anyone have a clue as to the signal path loss at
 3 billion miles and what levels the deep space dish receiving networks are
 dealing with?   Incredible that the data stream can be extracted from the
 noise.
 Mike  AC5P
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-- 
Jeff Stai ~ wk6i.j...@gmail.com
Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/
Facebook ~ http://www.facebook.com/twistedoak
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[Brian Moran via Elecraft]

Here's another paper that details the RF side of things. They needed an 
Ultra-Stable Oscillator, as well :-)
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~tcase/NH%20RF%20Telecom%20Sys%20ID1369%20FINAL_Deboy.pdf
-Brian N9ADG
   
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[brian]

It would seem that the DX record is held by the Voygers which long ago 
left the solar system.
I don't know their power but they still check in from way beyond 
Pluto.   So NewHorizons is DX but not real DX YET.


73 de Brian/K3KO
On 7/16/2015 18:31 PM, Scott Simpson wrote:

some discussion including calculation of losses around 147db here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/3d93en/the_radio_signal_from_the_new_horizons_spacecraft/




scott
sasimp...@gmail.com

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:10 PM, a...@sbcglobal.net wrote:


Heard last night on  Nova program that the transmitter on the Pathfinder
Pluto probe was 10 watts.  Anyone have a clue as to the signal path loss at
3 billion miles and what levels the deep space dish receiving networks are
dealing with?   Incredible that the data stream can be extracted from the
noise.
Mike  AC5P
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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10243 - Release Date: 07/16/15




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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[Brian D]

Voyager is still going strong many times further away than Pluto, 315w to a
3.7m dish. from over 19 billion KM.


a...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 Heard last night on  Nova program that the transmitter on the Pathfinder
 Pluto probe was 10 watts.  Anyone have a clue as to the signal path loss
 at 3 billion miles and what levels the deep space dish receiving networks
 are dealing with?   Incredible that the data stream can be extracted from
 the noise. Mike  AC5P
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[Fred Townsend]

Mike You can do the math for path loss. The formulas are well known. Perhaps 
less known is the rest of the story. The probe is using its high gain (dish) 
antenna, perhaps 20 db. Since it is a dish antenna it must be aimed! The probe 
is programmed to aim its antennas periodically since it can not be commanded to 
turn its antenna.
Back at this end, the Goldstone antennas have about 60db gain with 
cryogenically cooled noise figures of 1. I'm guessing the receiver sensitivity 
at around ---150 to -170 dbm using a very narrow bandwidth and correlation 
techniques similar to what is used on GPS receivers. Transmission flight of 
path is  six hours.
73
Fred, AE6QL

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of 
a...@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 11:10 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

Heard last night on  Nova program that the transmitter on the Pathfinder Pluto 
probe was 10 watts.  Anyone have a clue as to the signal path loss at 3 billion 
miles and what levels the deep space dish receiving networks are dealing with?  
 Incredible that the data stream can be extracted from the noise. Mike  AC5P 

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[Scott Simpson]

some discussion including calculation of losses around 147db here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/3d93en/the_radio_signal_from_the_new_horizons_spacecraft/




scott
sasimp...@gmail.com

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 1:10 PM, a...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 Heard last night on  Nova program that the transmitter on the Pathfinder
 Pluto probe was 10 watts.  Anyone have a clue as to the signal path loss at
 3 billion miles and what levels the deep space dish receiving networks are
 dealing with?   Incredible that the data stream can be extracted from the
 noise.
 Mike  AC5P
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[Don Wilhelm]

Certainly, with a proper transverter (or down converter) and adequate 
receive antennas, the K3 could serve as a suitable IF.  The decode of 
the received data is quite another matter.
Will anyone do that with their K3, I don't know, but the K3 is capable 
enough given an adequate down converter.  One would likely need a stable 
frequency reference, and the K3 has the option for an external reference.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/16/2015 7:16 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

OK, with the Path loss considered, and the comm link budget in the mix, with 
proper freq stabilization, could the K series integrate any possible down 
converted channel to a discernible signal?



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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[Tony Estep]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Edward R Cole kl...@acsalaska.net wrote:

  = -146.5 dBm
 =

Very good, Ed, thanks. I'm sure they use some sort of FEC encoding like
that of the JT software. If I understand that correctly, such a signal can
be decoded if it's a couple of s-units, say 10 db, below the noise level.
So with their ultra-low-noise gadgetry they should be able to hear it for
several million more miles.?

Tony KT0NY
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[rick.ag...@gmail.com]

Here is details on spacecraft design and on the RF comms subsystem. 
Interesting reading

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/pkb/ssr/ssr-fountain.pdf
The New Horizons Spacecraft - Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~tcase/NH%20RF%20Telecom%20Sys%20ID1369%20FINAL_Deboy.pdf
The RF Telecommunications System for the New Horizons Mission to Pluto -
Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory

73
Rick AG6AY



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Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

OK, with the Path loss considered, and the comm link budget in the mix, with 
proper freq stabilization, could the K series integrate any possible down 
converted channel to a discernible signal?
If not, then the topic is mute, Sorry, better things to consider..IMHO
Mel, K6KBE

  From: rick.ag...@gmail.com rick.ag...@gmail.com
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 3:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRP signals from Pathfinder probe (off topic)
   
Here is details on spacecraft design and on the RF comms subsystem. 
Interesting reading

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/pkb/ssr/ssr-fountain.pdf
The New Horizons Spacecraft - Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~tcase/NH%20RF%20Telecom%20Sys%20ID1369%20FINAL_Deboy.pdf
The RF Telecommunications System for the New Horizons Mission to Pluto -
Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory

73
Rick AG6AY



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Re: [Elecraft] QRP RTTY

[Bill Frantz]

To follow up: Many messages, both on and off list, indicated I 
should give RTTY a good try during field day. My results this 
year were a total of 201 digital QSOs with 21 RTTY QSOs. I had 3 
dups between RTTY and PSK. (RUMPed seems to consider RTTY  PSK 
separate modes and I didn't manually detect the dups until I had 
the entire log loaded into a spread sheet.) I would guess that I 
completed a contact with about 80% of the RTTY stations I 
called, actually a pretty good rate.


So yes, QRP RTTY is worth doing.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/22/15 at 1:52 PM, fra...@pwpconsult.com (Bill Frantz) wrote:

Has anyone had success in QRP RTTY operation? Should I consider 
RTTY a mode only suitable for higher power?


-
Bill Frantz| Airline peanut bag: Produced  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | in a facility that processes   | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | peanuts and other nuts. - Duh | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] QRP RTTY

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

Bill,
Interesting thread..
I think the correct answer to your question on QRP RTTY is to compare the eff 
of it to other modes of digital modulation?  That is, what is the bit error 
rate of it to other modes at threshold levels Not to negate RTTY, just make 
the comparison on energy used to complete a contact..

Cheers,
Mel, K6KBE

  From: Bill Frantz fra...@pwpconsult.com
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 2:23 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRP RTTY
   
To follow up: Many messages, both on and off list, indicated I 
should give RTTY a good try during field day. My results this 
year were a total of 201 digital QSOs with 21 RTTY QSOs. I had 3 
dups between RTTY and PSK. (RUMPed seems to consider RTTY  PSK 
separate modes and I didn't manually detect the dups until I had 
the entire log loaded into a spread sheet.) I would guess that I 
completed a contact with about 80% of the RTTY stations I 
called, actually a pretty good rate.

So yes, QRP RTTY is worth doing.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/22/15 at 1:52 PM, fra...@pwpconsult.com (Bill Frantz) wrote:

Has anyone had success in QRP RTTY operation? Should I consider 
RTTY a mode only suitable for higher power?

-
Bill Frantz        | Airline peanut bag: Produced  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506      | in a facility that processes  | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | peanuts and other nuts. - Duh | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP RTTY

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,6/29/2015 2:56 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

I think the correct answer to your question on QRP RTTY is to compare the eff 
of it to other modes of digital modulation?


No, it's a different question. In the context of Field Day, 
effectiveness is defined by the number of QSOs in the log, per hour. 
And, for QRP battery, the 5X power multiplier.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP RTTY

[Bill Frantz]

Jim is right about this one. However, there was a huge gap 
between the RTTY world and the PSK world and it wasn't the 
technical differences in the modes.


On field day you expect to find all levels of experience, from 
the seasoned contest op to someone using a radio for the first 
time in a GOTA station.


The RTTY stations I saw were all acting like experienced contest 
ops, spread out with good space between the signals. To avoid 
QRMing each other, callers would take turns. A typical QSO would go:


  CQ FD N4XX N4XX
  N4XX DE K6EI K6EI KN
  K6EI 3A SFL 3A SFL K6EI
  N4XX 11A SCV 11A SCV DE K6EI
  K6EI TU QRZ N4XX

I was using K6EI and the N4XX call is made up. My transmissions 
above were the macros I was using. I had a bunch of unnecessary 
DEs and KNs, but the macros were set up for the PSK world.


The PSK world was quite different. Lots of people jumped in to 
call CQ on top of ongoing QSOs. There were pileups everywhere. 
The exchanges were also quite different. Some of the CQers 
expected to receive the exchange before sending theirs. The 
icing on the cake was one station which sent its exchange (not 
quoting exactly, but recreating from a vague memory):


  K6EI One Alpha South Florida One Alpha South Florida de N4XX

Needless to say, the rate with the RTTY stations was a lot 
higher. However, most of the activity was on PSK. We spent less 
that 2 hours on RTTY and 22 on PSK. (I had help from several 
other operators who wanted to learn digital operations.)


73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/29/15 at 4:50 PM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:


On Mon,6/29/2015 2:56 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

I think the correct answer to your question on QRP RTTY is to compare the eff 
of it to other modes

of digital modulation?

No, it's a different question. In the context of Field Day, 
effectiveness is defined by the number of QSOs in the log, per 
hour. And, for QRP battery, the 5X power multiplier.

---
Bill Frantz| Re: Computer reliability, performance, and security:
408-356-8506   | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is 
*not* the

www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground.  - Terence Kelly

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP RTTY

[Jim Brown]

On Mon,6/29/2015 6:04 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
Jim is right about this one. However, there was a huge gap between the 
RTTY world and the PSK world and it wasn't the technical differences 
in the modes.


Thanks, Bill. That's sort of what I was expecting.

I ran 1A QRP Battery Solar with W6JTI and W6GJB. We made 830 CW QSOs and 
34 on SSB/FM (VHF). Our club's call is W6BX. Rig was a K3, of course. :)


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] QRP RTTY

[Ray Sills]

Indeed, QRP RTTY is quite possible.  I worked ER5LL (Moldova) back in  
October of 2012 via RTTY.  And, it was on 40 meters, at night, using  
an indoor AlexLoop antenna, running 3 watts.   True, it was during a  
contest, but nevertheless, a QSO is a QSO.   Pretty cool!


And, I was using -just- the KX3 in RTTY-D mode, sending via the paddles.

73 de Ray
K2ULR
KX3 #211
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP RTTY

[Wayne Burdick]

When the bands are open, you can work DX with QRP RTTY, though of course the 
S/N isn't as good as with CW. One field day I made about a dozen RTTY contacts 
in half an hour using FSK-D mode and 5 W. I had a long random wire up in a tree 
(probably 80' or so), plus a few radials.

Wayne
N6KR


On Jun 22, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Bill Frantz fra...@pwpconsult.com wrote:

 Last year during field day, I made 186 PSK contacts and 1 RTTY contact 
 running QRP. I tried for many more RTTY contacts, but in all but one case, 
 the other station could not hear me. The one exception was on 10 meters with 
 a station across San Francisco bay from our operation and probably line of 
 sight. He had difficulty coping my exchange. Since the PSK contacts included 
 stations in New England and Quebec, so I was getting out.
 
 Has anyone had success in QRP RTTY operation? Should I consider RTTY a mode 
 only suitable for higher power?
 
 73 Bill AE6JV
 
 ---
 Bill Frantz|Security, like correctness, is| Periwinkle
 (408)356-8506  |not an add-on feature. - Attr-| 16345 Englewood Ave
 www.pwpconsult.com |ibuted to Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, CA 95032
 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP RTTY

[Jeff Stai]

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 1:52 PM, Bill Frantz fra...@pwpconsult.com wrote:

 Has anyone had success in QRP RTTY operation? Should I consider RTTY a
 mode only suitable for higher power?


hi Bill - I write the results article in QST for the RTTY Roundup. Several
people who operated in the Roundup this year declared that they were QRP
in the Soapbox. One made over 50,000 points! So it is certainly possible to
have success at QRP, but you will more success if you turn up the power of
course.

73 jeff wk6i



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[Elecraft] QRP RTTY

[Bill Frantz]

Last year during field day, I made 186 PSK contacts and 1 RTTY 
contact running QRP. I tried for many more RTTY contacts, but in 
all but one case, the other station could not hear me. The one 
exception was on 10 meters with a station across San Francisco 
bay from our operation and probably line of sight. He had 
difficulty coping my exchange. Since the PSK contacts included 
stations in New England and Quebec, so I was getting out.


Has anyone had success in QRP RTTY operation? Should I consider 
RTTY a mode only suitable for higher power?


73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz|Security, like correctness, is| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  |not an add-on feature. - Attr-| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |ibuted to Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] QRP RTTY

[Keith Onishi]

I have worked FT5ZM in 21RTTY with KX3 5W from JA. Of course, pileup was very 
light then.
When condition is very good and noise level is low at the other location, QRP 
RTTY is very possible.

73 de JH3SIF, Keith

 2015/06/23 5:52、Bill Frantz fra...@pwpconsult.com のメール：
 
 Last year during field day, I made 186 PSK contacts and 1 RTTY contact 
 running QRP. I tried for many more RTTY contacts, but in all but one case, 
 the other station could not hear me. The one exception was on 10 meters with 
 a station across San Francisco bay from our operation and probably line of 
 sight. He had difficulty coping my exchange. Since the PSK contacts included 
 stations in New England and Quebec, so I was getting out.
 
 Has anyone had success in QRP RTTY operation? Should I consider RTTY a mode 
 only suitable for higher power?
 
 73 Bill AE6JV
 
 ---
 Bill Frantz|Security, like correctness, is| Periwinkle
 (408)356-8506  |not an add-on feature. - Attr-| 16345 Englewood Ave
 www.pwpconsult.com |ibuted to Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, CA 95032
 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP with the KX3

[Dominic Baines]

If you want to hear how a KX3 and qrp sounds when DX ... I'm qrv from C5 
as C5/M1KTA local sun rise and sun set from the beach with a vertical 
dipole, working NA no problem, SSB and CW.


72

Dom
C5/M1KTA

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Re: [Elecraft] QRP with the KX3

[Dave Barr]

Can't resist the brag...

My best qrp is VK2KM on 20 meter RTTY Long Path with one watt (he has an 
amazing yagi), but the prize so far should go to WA2DKJ who worked C6 
(1100+ miles from Northern NJ) on CW with his K2 at  1 milliwatt, using 
calibrated attenuators and measured with an HP power meter.  That's 
better than a million miles per watt.  The qso was not easy, but it was 
completed.


Dave, K2YG
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP with the KX3

[Sean Wall]

Wow, Ted!  That's awesome.  Can't wait to try my KX3.

73, Sean KK4YPE




On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Keith Onishi jh3...@sumaq.jp wrote:

 Congratulations, Ted. Excellent job with the indoor antenna.
 I have worked 6W2SC from Japan through long path on 14/18 CW and VP2MRV
 through short path on 14 CW with my KX3 5W and 2 element cubical quad.
 KX3 is excellent in QRP. More than that is it can pick up weak signals
 with strong signals nearby.

 73 de JH3SIF, Keith

 2014/03/03 11:48、Dauer, Edward eda...@law.du.edu のメール：

  Did it today:  KMPW (thousand miles per watt) - from /2 in Bellport NY to
  UY6IM in Donetsk, Ukraine, on 10M CW.  Google Earth says it¹s 5001.19
  miles.  KX3 running on batteries hence limited to 5 watts; antenna an
  indoor dipole strung between second floor bedroom doorknobs.  Others have
  done orders of magnitude better, but the first one¹s a kick anyway.
  Great
  rig; wonderful receiver; love it.
 
  Ted, KN1CBR
 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRP with the KX3

[Matt Zilmer]

Excellent!  And it will just keep getting better as you get more used
to QRP operation.

In Summer 2012, I was out back dabbling around using the KX3 at 100 mW
CW on a dipole at 30 feet, calling CQ on and off at 10106 KHz.  Heard
a weak signal reply, and cranked up the AF gain into the headphones.
Worked a QRP backpacker station in western PA from SoCal.  Turns out I
was on her calling frequency and she was just finished setting up. And
she was using a KX3 running 250 mW!

2115 miles on 100 mW is 21,150 MPW one way, the other was 8,460 MPW.
Others here have similar stories, and none of this is extraordinary.

QRP takes competence, patience, and persistance, but it can be very
rewarding.

73,
matt W6NIA


On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 10:09:29 -0500, you wrote:

Wow, Ted!  That's awesome.  Can't wait to try my KX3.

73, Sean KK4YPE




On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Keith Onishi jh3...@sumaq.jp wrote:

 Congratulations, Ted. Excellent job with the indoor antenna.
 I have worked 6W2SC from Japan through long path on 14/18 CW and VP2MRV
 through short path on 14 CW with my KX3 5W and 2 element cubical quad.
 KX3 is excellent in QRP. More than that is it can pick up weak signals
 with strong signals nearby.

 73 de JH3SIF, Keith

 2014/03/03 11:48?Dauer, Edward eda...@law.du.edu ?

  Did it today:  KMPW (thousand miles per watt) - from /2 in Bellport NY to
  UY6IM in Donetsk, Ukraine, on 10M CW.  Google Earth says it¹s 5001.19
  miles.  KX3 running on batteries hence limited to 5 watts; antenna an
  indoor dipole strung between second floor bedroom doorknobs.  Others have
  done orders of magnitude better, but the first one¹s a kick anyway.
  Great
  rig; wonderful receiver; love it.
 
  Ted, KN1CBR
 
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Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
--
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will
spend the first four sharpening the axe. -A. Lincoln
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