date:20040810

None of this "SMT" nonsense for me!  My eyes have gotten old enough
to give me trouble just reading numbers on newer "mini parts"!  Also arthritis 
in
my thumbs has affected the dexterity of the hand I once had!  It's like
"working on wristwatches" as far as I'm concerned!  I played that game when I
was younger, but no more!
Have fun with the Surface mounted stuff guys>

73,
Sandy W5TVW
- Original Message - 
From: "Steve, G4GXL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?


| > SMT work requires ... a few pieces of extra
| equipment if one is to be successful <
|
| One useful piece of 'extra equipment' is a vacuum
| cleaner with a piece of nylon stocking stretched over
| the nozzle.
|
| Then instead of spending 30 minutes on your hands and
| knees looking for the SMD component that you just
| dropped (and is almost certainly the only one for
| which you have no spare), a quick swipe with the
| Hoover should find it.
|
| 73
| Steve, G4GXL
|
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|

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RE: [Elecraft] K2 Multiple Birdies Suddenly Appeared. Help!

2004-08-10 Thread W9DHI

Brian do you have the freq. counter lead still plugged into test point
2...it's been mentioned before, especially with the KPA100 installed that
you could create problems.  However I've been under the impression that the
problems would be on the cleanliness of the transmitted signal...just a
thought.


Gregg R. Lengling, W9DHI, Retired
Administrator http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org
K2/100 S#3075 KX1 S# 57
Member:  ARRL, RSGB, RCA, WERA and ORC
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Wruble
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:37 AM
To: 'Elecraft Discussion List'
Subject: [Elecraft] K2 Multiple Birdies Suddenly Appeared. Help!

Hi Guys:

I had my K2 (S/N 2528) opened up to replace the thermal pads on Q7 and Q8.
This was in the aftermath of installing the KPA100 option.  Everything
worked fine for a few weeks after installing the KPA100, but I needed to
change out the pads as the old ones had gotten "threadbare".  I am pretty
sure I didn't have this problem before I did that, but I am not 100%
positive.

Suddenly, I have birdies all over the place, on almost every band, and
spaced out across the bands.  The birdie is clearly associated with the KIO2
interface that is part of the KPA100.  When I unplug the digital cable
either from the PC or from the back of the K-2, the birdies disappear.
However, I still have the birdies even if I shut down the PC, another PC in
the shack, and both monitors.  I have them when I move to battery power.  I
have tried shutting down everything in the area, with no change.

I tried placing rf suppressing toroids and split rings on the line to the PC
with no effect.  I have changed COM ports with no success.  Unplugging the
KAT100 makes no difference.  

The birdies are at times steady and at times pulsating --- whoop whoop whoop
--- about 2 per second.  The pattern can change based on what I am doing on
the PC.  But, the birdies are there with the PC totally shut down, monitor
as well.  It acts like the KIO2 (the one that is built into the KPA100 is
generating it's own oscillations, but only with the control cable connected.

The configuration of my K2:

KPA100
KAT100
KNB2
KDSP2
K160RX
K60XV

Any thoughts much appreciated.  Thanks. 

de Brian W3BW


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

2004-08-10 Thread Frank C Van Cleef


With all due respect to those of us who have to squint ever harder to see
what used to stand out
clearly:  I, for one, would be delighted to have a kit based primarily on
SMT devices to try my hand at.  I have a fine-tip iron and an Optovisor at
hand, and I love to build kits, so if SMT is the coming thing, let's have at
it!  It may not be everybody's cupp'a'tea but new things are interesting and
exciting to try, and isn't that what it's all about?

Perhaps a kit of, say, the K1's complexity to start with.  The TAPR project
described below is a pretty big gulp to start with, so perhaps something a
little less complicated would be in order for a first project.
What say, Elecraft guru's, I bet the challenges of designing an SMT kit
project would be exciting on your side as well!?

73 de W1WCG
Frank Van Cleef

- Original Message - 
From: "Richard T Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:29 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?


Ok, folks - this is off topic, but since y'all have been a font of knowledge
about kit building, I thought I would try this question...

How hard is SMT soldering, really? I've been lusting after the TAPR Software
Defined Radio kit,(http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fdsp10.html) but it's
majority SMT. I'm in my 30's, with fairly steady hands and decent vision...
with the proper tools, should I be able to do this? Any experienced SMT
builders out there got any pointers?
Please respond to me directly - I'll summarize for the list later if there's
interest.

Now, for the other shoe - I just ordered a KX1 to go with my now almost 5
year old K2 (#668). This should be fun!

73 DE KF4BAL/V73
Richard Perry
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

2004-08-10 Thread Mike Morrow

I would *never* buy any kit that requires more than an item or two of SMT
work.  SMT construction is specifically designed *only*  for machine
assembly.  IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT components
pre-assembled to the PC boards to be acceptable.

I'm not against SMT.  In fact, I wish the K1 or KX1 were available with most
of the generic components in SMT, pre-assembled.  (MFJ has almost the
correct mixture in their Cub kits.)  That would be more reliable, quicker to
build, eliminate much error, reduce monotony in assembly, simplify kit parts
inventory, etc.  But a kit with many SMT parts that must be assembled by the
builder grossly degrades, rather than improves, **all** of these areas, in
comparison with conventional components.

73,
Mike / KK5F

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Re: [Elecraft] K2 L25 and L26

2004-08-10 Thread Mychael Morohovich

Hi, Bob-

Thanks for the email mentioning that you acquired the parts from another ham
and not from me directly. Thank you as well for the nice words regarding my
toroids.

Yes, RFC11 is a new addition relative to the toroid set used by pre serial
number 3000 K2 kits. You will not find one in your "heritage" set. Instead,
you will notice that you have an L33 . This is the old BFO inductor that has
since been replaced by a kit supplied toroid. In this instance you will not
be using the one that I supplied.

Yes, I am from Pittsburgh, and we do live in rather close proximity to one
another! Perhaps we will meet someday, especially if you are buying lunch-
hi!

73,
Mychael



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

2004-08-10 Thread Rod N0RC

Mike,

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Morrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

> I would *never* buy any kit that requires more than an item or two of
SMT
> work.  SMT construction is specifically designed *only*  for machine
> assembly.  IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT
components

I must respectively disagree with this statement. SMT parts are quite
regularly hand soldered in a professional production environment.

--
73, Rod N0RC

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RE: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

Lesee... The design of clocks, especially mechanical watches, has always
fascinated me. I built a 24-inch long model of the USS Constitution once
with about half a jillion tiny knots in the rigging, all done by hand using
tweezers. 

With that background, I simply found the advent of SMC's "interesting". I
already had an optivisor. My first experience was with removing and
replacing them on pc boards with no specialized tools while repairing "land
mobile" radios in the 80's. Later it was  doing the same thing sitting
cross-legged on a cold steel floor using a "porta-sol" butane iron and a
small flashlight clamped in my teeth while servicing electronics on ships.
At least in the land mobile shop I had a soldering station, comfortable
bench and good light, but the shipboard experience proved that with enough
practice one can get good results in very primitive conditions. 

Patience, good vision aids (if you're old enough that you can't focus on the
tip of your nose any longer), a solder sucker or braid and sharp knife, and
a pair of tweezers are the basics, in my experience. Oh, and a pair of
soft-soled shoes helps. If you pick up a "pebble" on your shoe, you can be
sure it's a resistor or a capacitor.

Removing 'em, I use braid or a sucker to take all the solder off I can.
Usually the part is still stuck by a tiny thin film of solder at each
terminal bonding it to the board. A razor blade or very sharp hobby knife
run along that seam will separate the part from the board without damaging
either. Be sure to hold the part down with a small screwdriver or one blade
of the tweezers when you remove the last bit of solder or you may have to
pick it off of the bottom of your shoe eventually.  

Putting an SMC on, I hold the part in place with the tip of the tweezers,
then "tack solder" one end using just the iron with a tiny amount of solder
on it. Then I let go of the tweezers and properly solder the other end
before going back to the first tack solder spot and finishing it, if needed.
If the pad/part are tinned properly, just touching it with the iron the
first time often solders it FB. You don't need a lot of solder. Make sure
any solder on the pc-board pads is VERY thin. You don't want the part held
off the board on islands of solder or stressing a terminal by pushing down
on it after one end is soldered with the part not lying flat on the board.
When replacing parts, I often use a bit of solder braid heated by the iron
to "dry" the board pads as much as possible before installing the new part. 

Multi-pin transistors and I.C.s work just the same, but with more terminals.

There are specialized irons that will heat both terminals on an SMC cap or
resistor simultaneously, or even a whole I.C. If I were to do a lot of SMC
work on my bench, I'd probably get one. Like any soldering, taking parts off
cleanly is more work than putting 'em on. Frankly, most SMC's are too cheap
to worry about much, unless I want to check the part out-of-circuit after
it's off. So I worry about the board and I'm quick to sacrifice the part
during removal if that makes things easier. In that regard, it's no
different than replacing through-hole parts. 

Prefer Grandfather clocks to watches? Then at least through-hole and
possibly vacuum tube stuff is likely a much more interesting project .

Ron AC7AC


-Original Message-
...How hard is SMT soldering, really? I've been lusting after the TAPR
Software Defined Radio kit,(http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fdsp10.html) but
it's majority SMT. I'm in my 30's, with fairly steady hands and decent
vision... with the proper tools, should I be able to do this? Any
experienced SMT builders out there got any pointers? Please respond to me
directly - I'll summarize for the list later if there's interest.

Now, for the other shoe - I just ordered a KX1 to go with my now almost 5
year old K2 (#668). This should be fun!

73 DE KF4BAL/V73
Richard Perry


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

2004-08-10 Thread Michael Harris

G'day,

> I would *never* buy any kit that requires more than an item or two of
SMT
> work.  SMT construction is specifically designed *only*  for machine
> assembly.  IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT components
> pre-assembled to the PC boards to be acceptable.

Well I guess "through hole" is going to vanish sooner or later, probably
sooner, so we had better get used to it.

Yes, I would buy a kit that uses SMT components.  A right royal pain in
the butt no doubt, so I would like to start small (no pun intended).

Regards,

Mike VP8NO
#1400 + re-heat

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Re: [Elecraft] K2 L25 and L26

2004-08-10 Thread David Pratt


I have just read Mychael's comments about L25 & L26.

I appear to have missed the change in the Low-Pass Filter components 
when I upgraded my Revision A PCB to Revision B.  I see from the latest 
circuit diagram that the filter is labelled "40/60m".


What is the reason for the change in the filter components, and is the 
change recommended for the Revision A K2?


Thanks de David G4DMP

In a recent message, Mychael Morohovich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
said

The K2 set that you have, with L25, L26 each consisting of 16 turns, is for
K2 kits that have serial numbers below 3000. Did you buy this set from me? I
ask because I keep these older toroid variations in a separate area and only
get them out when it is requested of me by a builder with an older kit. This
sort of request is rare.

Based on the serial number that you have given, L25 should have 14 turns and
L26 should have 12 turns. Regardless of how you acquired the parts, I will
send you the two correct toroids at no charge if you will supply me with
your shipping particulars.

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[Elecraft] SMT Kits

2004-08-10 Thread Michael Harris

G'day,

Thinking on this, how about:

Remote antenna switch.

1.  Activated by a dc signal applied via the main co-ax.

2.  Drops to an internal load.

3.  Sniffs the rf in a "tune" cycle to determine the frequency.

4.  Selects via latching relay the designated output port (co-ax socket)

5. Switches "through".

6. Goes to sleep until activated again.

Could be powered by a remote battery, possibly charged via a very small
photo panel.

Just a thought, needs some polish.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO
#1400

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

2004-08-10 Thread n4gi

- Original Message -
From: Mike Morrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:34 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

> SMT construction is specifically designed *only*  for machine
> assembly.  IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT 
> componentspre-assembled to the PC boards to be acceptable.

Misinformation.  

When I was in college, a bunch of radio club members decided to get the NorCal 
SMK 40m kits.  Some of those guys had little to no soldering experience, but 
all of us had our rigs working FB in a couple of hours with no problems.

A little "how-to" info is all you need:

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~fvandenb/work/robot/SMT-GuideV1-3.pdf

I like SMT much better...  No board flipping and lead clipping.  

73,
Blake N4GI

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

2004-08-10 Thread Trev - K6ESE

Actually, I find surface mount components much easier to replace in most
cases than through hole parts. Especially when you are prototyping and you
have to change components often. No holes to clean out, no plate throughs to
damage, no leads to clip. Once you get used to the size of the parts and a
little different technique in building, it's easy.

As to the comment about it being for machine assembly only, we hand build
all prototype pcb's at work. Very high density stuff too. Not that big a
deal once you have done it a few times. The K1 could probably be the size of
the KX1 if all SMD's were used...

73's Trev - K6ESE
http://www.qsl.net/k6ese
dit dididit dit  dit dit


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Re: [Elecraft] K2 L25 and L26

2004-08-10 Thread Don Brown

Hi

The change was made to allow for 60 meters. If you add the K60XV you will need 
to change the filter.

Don Brown


  - Original Message - 
  From: David Pratt 
  To: Elecraft Reflector 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 12:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 L25 and L26


  I have just read Mychael's comments about L25 & L26.

  I appear to have missed the change in the Low-Pass Filter components 
  when I upgraded my Revision A PCB to Revision B.  I see from the latest 
  circuit diagram that the filter is labelled "40/60m".

  What is the reason for the change in the filter components, and is the 
  change recommended for the Revision A K2?

  Thanks de David G4DMP

  In a recent message, Mychael Morohovich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  said
  >The K2 set that you have, with L25, L26 each consisting of 16 turns, is for
  >K2 kits that have serial numbers below 3000. Did you buy this set from me? I
  >ask because I keep these older toroid variations in a separate area and only
  >get them out when it is requested of me by a builder with an older kit. This
  >sort of request is rare.
  >
  >Based on the serial number that you have given, L25 should have 14 turns and
  >L26 should have 12 turns. Regardless of how you acquired the parts, I will
  >send you the two correct toroids at no charge if you will supply me with
  >your shipping particulars.
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 L25 and L26

2004-08-10 Thread David Pratt

Thank you, Don. I do indeed use the K60XV but have missed any reference 
to the need to change the LPF.  Could you tell me please, where this 
information was published?


73 de David G4DMP

In a recent message, Don Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said

The change was made to allow for 60 meters. If you add the K60XV you
will need to change the filter.
 
Don Brown
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: David Pratt
 I appear to have missed the change in the Low-Pass Filter components
 when I upgraded my Revision A PCB to Revision B.  I see from the
 latest
 circuit diagram that the filter is labelled "40/60m".

 What is the reason for the change in the filter components, and is
 the
 change recommended for the Revision A K2?

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

One "reason" I don't care with SMD stuff, is the cost of "proper" soldering 
gear for
them!  The Optivisor and magnafier florescent lamps I have, who can spend many
times more than a kit would cost for an SMD "soldering station"?
(Not to mention looking for missing parts on my "unclean room" workshop!!)

Big smile ;^)

73,
Sandy W5TVW
- Original Message - 
From: "Frank C Van Cleef" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?


|
| With all due respect to those of us who have to squint ever harder to see
| what used to stand out
| clearly:  I, for one, would be delighted to have a kit based primarily on
| SMT devices to try my hand at.  I have a fine-tip iron and an Optovisor at
| hand, and I love to build kits, so if SMT is the coming thing, let's have at
| it!  It may not be everybody's cupp'a'tea but new things are interesting and
| exciting to try, and isn't that what it's all about?
|
| Perhaps a kit of, say, the K1's complexity to start with.  The TAPR project
| described below is a pretty big gulp to start with, so perhaps something a
| little less complicated would be in order for a first project.
| What say, Elecraft guru's, I bet the challenges of designing an SMT kit
| project would be exciting on your side as well!?
|
| 73 de W1WCG
| Frank Van Cleef
|
| - Original Message - 
| From: "Richard T Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: 
| Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:29 AM
| Subject: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
|
|
| Ok, folks - this is off topic, but since y'all have been a font of knowledge
| about kit building, I thought I would try this question...
|
| How hard is SMT soldering, really? I've been lusting after the TAPR Software
| Defined Radio kit,(http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fdsp10.html) but it's
| majority SMT. I'm in my 30's, with fairly steady hands and decent vision...
| with the proper tools, should I be able to do this? Any experienced SMT
| builders out there got any pointers?
| Please respond to me directly - I'll summarize for the list later if there's
| interest.
|
| Now, for the other shoe - I just ordered a KX1 to go with my now almost 5
| year old K2 (#668). This should be fun!
|
| 73 DE KF4BAL/V73
| Richard Perry
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|
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|
|

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[Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft

2004-08-10 Thread wayne burdick


Regarding SMT (surface-mount technology):

We will obviously have to use many more SMDs (surface-mount devices) in 
future kits. But they will all be pre-installed, with rare exceptions.


While it is possible to install and remove SMDs by hand, it can require 
a lot of practice, patience, steady nerves, unimpaired vision, and 
specialized tools. Only a small fraction of kit builders has all of 
these *and* the desire to build kits with SMDs. (I can do it, but I 
don't like to :)


That said, we may offer small SMD-based accessory kits someday for 
those who are interested in learning and applying the necessary skills.


73,
Wayne
N6KR


---

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

2004-08-10 Thread James T. "Jim" Rogers

Now that Wayne Burdick has a great idea. An introductory kit to SMT
devices. That is why I like Elecraft. Thinking folks.

As the cordinator for a "build day" for our local radio club, I embarked
upon a small inexpensive kit search that would give our novice builders the
biggest bang for their buck ($27) and something that hopefully could be
completed in a day. As a result 11 RockMites were ordered from Dave Benson
at Small Wonder Labs.
The RockMite has one surface mount device. That gets installed first and
the rest of the kit then builds around it. I am anxiously awaiting the day
when we have 11 builders of various expertise "gluing" that one in.
Fortunately we have planned "elmers" into the project so there will be an
experienced builder at every table to guide faltering hands.

Jim, W4ATK
K2/100 4028

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Re: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft

2004-08-10 Thread Deni




wayne burdick wrote:


Regarding SMT (surface-mount technology):

We will obviously have to use many more SMDs (surface-mount devices) 
in future kits. But they will all be pre-installed, with rare exceptions.


While it is possible to install and remove SMDs by hand, it can 
require a lot of practice, patience, steady nerves, unimpaired vision, 
and specialized tools. Only a small fraction of kit builders has all 
of these *and* the desire to build kits with SMDs. (I can do it, but I 
don't like to :)


That said, we may offer small SMD-based accessory kits someday for 
those who are interested in learning and applying the necessary skills.


73,
Wayne
N6KR



Well I for one would like to try this SMD construction.
I have worked in a service environment with probably the first SMD 
devices, which I  guess were quite big by modern standards.

Are there any kits available right now to make an interesting  project?

73, Deni

GM3SKN F5VJC

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RE: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Morrow
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:35 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
> 
> I would *never* buy any kit that requires more than an item 
> or two of SMT work.  SMT construction is specifically 
> designed *only*  for machine assembly.  IMO, any SMT kit must 
> come with almost all the SMT components pre-assembled to the 
> PC boards to be acceptable.

Mike

This is not so my friend.

Even in a production environment manual SMT assembly or rework is common place. 
You cannot lead a
board back into a machine after placement, for a start you cannot paste it 
again! So any issues
found by manual/AO/FFT inspection needs fixed manually.

I have seen non-skilled workers, with no interest in electronics at all (and 
sometimes no
motivation) become quite competent within a week or so on devices down to 0603 
for chip parts
(smallest you should really go in a kit IMHO) and even 0.65mm pitch SOIC and 
QFP parts.

Of course to become really skilful takes a lot longer and a will/desire to do 
it but it shows the
minor learning curve required, there are no mountains to climb if the kit is 
balanced between SMT
parts/PTH parts.

> I'm not against SMT.  In fact, I wish the K1 or KX1 were 
> available with most of the generic components in SMT, 
> pre-assembled.  (MFJ has almost the correct mixture in their 
> Cub kits.)  That would be more reliable, quicker to build, 
> eliminate much error, reduce monotony in assembly, simplify 
> kit parts inventory, etc.  But a kit with many SMT parts that 
> must be assembled by the builder grossly degrades, rather 
> than improves, **all** of these areas, in comparison with 
> conventional components.

I had actually considered buying a K2 and creating a hybrid SMT/PTH version as 
I was looking for a
bit more of a challenge than just soldering and aligning the kit. 
The additional space which would be freed up would allow for some more goodies 
to be squeezed in...
(maybe ;-)  )
It would also allow for builders who are not confident to complete a full kit, 
to buy a part
assembled boards (say with R/C already fitted, thus avoiding what must be one 
of the most common
problems for new builders, the part in the wrong place) I would guess the IC 
might be better left as
PTH to better fit with Elecraft spares inventory
Perhaps Elecraft would consider sending me the SCH in e-readable format or as 
netlist and set me
loose on this as a mini project ... ? It would be fun, so the ground work could 
be done as a
feasibility exercise for free.

After seeing the issues caused by builders expectations of what a 'quality' 
build job should be I do
believe SMT would help in a big way, if say 1206 sized parts were used they are 
not much different
in size than a 1/8 W resistor and easily handled, no cropping, no worry about 
through hole
penetration levels and perhaps a bit better performance in some areas that have 
trace critical
routing.

Just some comments of mine

John (GM1BSG)

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RE: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sandy W5TVW
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:18 PM
> To: Frank C Van Cleef; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
> 
> One "reason" I don't care with SMD stuff, is the cost of 
> "proper" soldering gear for them!  The Optivisor and 
> magnafier florescent lamps I have, who can spend many times 
> more than a kit would cost for an SMD "soldering station"?
> (Not to mention looking for missing parts on my "unclean 
> room" workshop!!)

Sandy

Good lighting and inspection capability is essential for any construction work, 
through hole or SMT.

You would actually find less issues with lighting on SMT work although in some 
cases you are
correct, because of the reduced pitch of the parts, especially IC pins, a good 
magnifier can become
essential.

> Big smile ;^)

Only as long as you do not drop any parts (especially MLCC's as they have no 
markings!), then its
frown time!

There is still a lot to be said for all the parts having the value marked well, 
and Elecraft do well
by supplying the through hole parts on bandolier from a sequencer so they can 
be removed in line
with the assembly manual, not so easy to do that with SMT. This was missed in 
the earlier posts.

John (GM1BSG)
 
> 73,
> Sandy W5TVW
> - Original Message -
> From: "Frank C Van Cleef" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
> 
> 
> |
> | With all due respect to those of us who have to squint ever 
> harder to see
> | what used to stand out
> | clearly:  I, for one, would be delighted to have a kit 
> based primarily on
> | SMT devices to try my hand at.  I have a fine-tip iron and 
> an Optovisor at
> | hand, and I love to build kits, so if SMT is the coming 
> thing, let's have at
> | it!  It may not be everybody's cupp'a'tea but new things 
> are interesting and
> | exciting to try, and isn't that what it's all about?
> |
> | Perhaps a kit of, say, the K1's complexity to start with.  
> The TAPR project
> | described below is a pretty big gulp to start with, so 
> perhaps something a
> | little less complicated would be in order for a first project.
> | What say, Elecraft guru's, I bet the challenges of 
> designing an SMT kit
> | project would be exciting on your side as well!?
> |
> | 73 de W1WCG
> | Frank Van Cleef
> |
> | - Original Message - 
> | From: "Richard T Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> | To: 
> | Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:29 AM
> | Subject: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?
> |
> |
> | Ok, folks - this is off topic, but since y'all have been a 
> font of knowledge
> | about kit building, I thought I would try this question...
> |
> | How hard is SMT soldering, really? I've been lusting after 
> the TAPR Software
> | Defined Radio 
> kit,(http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Fdsp10.html) but it's
> | majority SMT. I'm in my 30's, with fairly steady hands and 
> decent vision...
> | with the proper tools, should I be able to do this? Any 
> experienced SMT
> | builders out there got any pointers?
> | Please respond to me directly - I'll summarize for the list 
> later if there's
> | interest.
> |
> | Now, for the other shoe - I just ordered a KX1 to go with 
> my now almost 5
> | year old K2 (#668). This should be fun!
> |
> | 73 DE KF4BAL/V73
> | Richard Perry
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> |
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> |
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

2004-08-10 Thread John Payne

Who needs an expensive "soldering station" for SMT?  I've built a couple of
SMT projects with a standard soldering station (using a fine tip)with no
problem.  If one looks for excuses, one can find them, and never do or learn
anything new!  There are many cheap and easy tricks for SMT work, if one
only cares to look a bit!

73 de John N4FLJ
- Original Message - 
From: "Sandy W5TVW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



> One "reason" I don't care with SMD stuff, is the cost of "proper"
soldering gear for
> them!  > Big smile ;^)
>


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

2004-08-10 Thread Mike Morrow

I wrote:

>> SMT construction is specifically designed *only*  for machine
>> assembly.  IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT 
>> components pre-assembled to the PC boards to be acceptable.

To which Blake responded:

>Misinformation.  

The fact that some humans can manage to assemble some SMT components with 
varying degrees of inconvenience does *not* alter the fact that SMT component 
packages *are* designed first and foremost to facilitate machine assembly.  No 
designer of an SMT component package ever sat down and added "ease of human 
manual assembly" to the list of design criteria he had to meet.

The second sentence began with "IMO" ("in my opinion").  An opinion expressing 
personal preference is not "misinformation."  It *is* a fact that a manually 
assembled SMT kit is unacceptable to me (and many many other likely kit 
builders).

> I like SMT much better...  No board flipping and lead clipping.

I'll accept that as a statement of personal preference.  Otherwise I might make 
the same mistake and write "Misinformation!"

73
Mike / KK5F
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RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft

Wayne wrote:
...it can require 
a lot of practice, patience, steady nerves, unimpaired vision, and 
specialized tools.
---

Good points, especially when it comes to identifying parts. My experience
has been mostly in fixing something. I replace one or two SMDs and I'm done.
But reading the identifying marks on some of them darn near requires a
microscope! 

Building a whole rig from a box (or thimblefull) of 100 or 200 such devices
might be a bit more of a challenge...

Also, I cringe when I find a dense board mixed with through-hole stuff. The
big parts almost always make it really tough and time-consuming to work with
SMDs using simple, non-specialized tools.

Ron AC7AC


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

2004-08-10 Thread Bill Tippett

Richard, I already sent you my comments directly
as you requested, but feel I should respond to some of the
comments posted here.

By way of background, the only SMT parts I had used
previously were mounting 5 SMT caps on an Inrad roofing filter
kit for my Orion. That went well so I began looking for another
SMT kit to try. I decided to try KD1JV's AT Sprint II which is
described here:

http://www.al7fs.us/AL7FS5ATSprint2.html

The ATS-2 is a quasi-competitor to the KX1 in that it covers
80/40/30/20 and comes in a very small lightweight package
for $205 shipped. I was particularly interested in the weight
since I've gotten interested in the Adventure Radio Society's
Spartan Sprints, which place a premium on weight. My ATS-2
including paddle, earphones, modules for 80/40/20 and a 9V
battery (good for 2.5W for the 2 hour Sprint duration) altogether
weighs 0.59 pounds. Steve KD1JV has now ended production
of the ATS-2 in favor of an ATS-3 which should be even lighter!

Construction was really a non-event and it was actually
fun to build. I was initially worried about the AD9834 DDS chip
which has extremely small leads but even that was no problem.
The only trick to SMT is to use the proper tools--a magnifying
visor (I got one for $4.95 plus shipping), 0.015" solder and a needle
point tip on a standard solder station (mine is the $35 Circuit
Specialists version) are the only musts . Special SMT soldering
equipment is NOT needed. I also did NOT use any hold-down
device although it is very easy to construct one with several web
references (one on AL7FS's site above).

Bottom line for me: SMT is nothing to be afraid of if you
use the proper tools (which are neither expensive or specialized).
I'm now just waiting for KD1JV to bring out his ATS-3 and get my
weight down WELL below 0.5 pounds for more Spartan Sprints.

73, Bill W4ZV (K2 #4119)

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

2004-08-10 Thread Larry Makoski W2LJ

A "trick" that I learned was to take a long piece of solid "bell wire"
or hookup wire (copper) about 6- 8 inches long.  Remove the insulation
and wrap a coil around your soldering iron tip.  Bring the last bit of
wire out, parallel to the axix of the soldering iron. Plug the iron, in,
let the wire heat up, cut the "tip" to the length you want and you have
a very fine tip for soldering SMD devices.

I wouldn't want to build a kit this way; but if you only have a couple
devices to solder it works pretty good.

73 de Larry W2LJ - Vivat Morse! © ®

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.qsl.net/w2lj

ARRL Lifemember  QRP ARCI #4488 NJQRP #47
FISTS #1469  QRP-L #778   FP #612  QRPp-I #759
ARS #1528,  AmQRP, CQC #746

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Butternut HF9V and G5RV antennas

- Original Message -

John Payne wrote:

> Who needs an expensive "soldering station" for SMT?  I've built a
couple of
> SMT projects with a standard soldering station (using a fine tip)with
no
> problem.  If one looks for excuses, one can find them, and never do or
learn
> anything new!  There are many cheap and easy tricks for SMT work, if
one
> only cares to look a bit!
>
> 73 de John N4FLJ

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RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron 
> D'Eau Claire
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:34 PM
> To: 'Elecraft Mail list'
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
> 
> Wayne wrote:
> ...it can require
> a lot of practice, patience, steady nerves, unimpaired 
> vision, and specialized tools.
> ---
> 
> Good points, especially when it comes to identifying parts. 
> My experience has been mostly in fixing something. I replace 
> one or two SMDs and I'm done.
> But reading the identifying marks on some of them darn near 
> requires a microscope! 

Ron

You usually do not get identification marks on chip capacitors, melf/SOD80 
diodes or SOT23 parts
(transistors etc)

This is what I see as the biggest issue to SMD kits as there is no visual way 
for the builder to
validate he has the correct parts in the correct place so its all down to 
getting these in the right
place first time. This might seem to contradict some of my earlier comments in 
some ways but of read
in context it only means you need to concentrate a little harder and employ a 
slightly different
methodology for the assembly of the 2 technologies.

I already know 1 builder who had some problems that ended up being a misplaced 
part, a very easy
thing to do.

The part size chosen for a kit will make a big difefrence in parts managability 
but will make the
inventory for compiling the kit for sale as you cannot sequence the parts as 
easily on tape as on a
bandolier.

John

> Building a whole rig from a box (or thimblefull) of 100 or 
> 200 such devices might be a bit more of a challenge...
> 
> Also, I cringe when I find a dense board mixed with 
> through-hole stuff. The big parts almost always make it 
> really tough and time-consuming to work with SMDs using 
> simple, non-specialized tools.
> 
> Ron AC7AC
> 
> 
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RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft

Ouch! The stuff that I've see so far has numbers - but really, really,
REALLY small in many cases. 

Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
Ron

You usually do not get identification marks on chip capacitors, melf/SOD80
diodes or SOT23 parts (transistors etc)

This is what I see as the biggest issue to SMD kits as there is no visual
way for the builder to validate he has the correct parts in the correct
place so its all down to getting these in the right place first time. 
John



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RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron 
> D'Eau Claire
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:25 AM
> To: 'Elecraft Mail list'
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft
> 
> Ouch! The stuff that I've see so far has numbers - but 
> really, really, REALLY small in many cases. 

Ron

Yeah mostly chip resistors have numbers using standard conventions, except 
Rohm/Eurohm who can have
a really funky system, don't expect 102 to be 1K from some of these guys.

But MLC caps 1206 (3.2 x 1.6mm) and below are rarely marked, but depends on 
manufacturer, 0805 (2.0
x 1.25mm) have never had markings as far as I recall. These I would view as big 
passive parts,
excluding chip electrolytic/tantalums.

Was that your definition of small?, normally we use 0603 (1.6 x 0.8mm) or 0402 
(1 x 0.5mm) every
day.

No metric comments please ;-), its an affliction but I am used to it.

John (GM1BSG)
 
> Ron AC7AC
> 
> -Original Message-
> Ron
> 
> You usually do not get identification marks on chip 
> capacitors, melf/SOD80 diodes or SOT23 parts (transistors etc)
> 
> This is what I see as the biggest issue to SMD kits as there 
> is no visual way for the builder to validate he has the 
> correct parts in the correct place so its all down to getting 
> these in the right place first time. 
> John
> 
> 
> 
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[Elecraft] Fw: Perseid Meteors and a Big Sunspot

2004-08-10 Thread Michael Harris

G'day,

This might be of interest:



| Space Weather News for August 10, 2004
| http://spaceweather.com

| BIG SUNSPOT:  Sunspot 649, which unleashed several powerful solar flares
| in July, is back and it's growing again.   The large spot has a complex
| magnetic field that harbors energy for X-class solar flares.  It's easy
to
| see, but never look directly at the blinding sun.  Check
SpaceWeather.com
| for safe solar observing tips.


Regards,

Mike VP8NO
#1400

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[Elecraft] XG1 and K2 Signal Tracing

2004-08-10 Thread Tom Mc

Hi gang,

  I bought and built the K2 with the idea that I'd not only have a pretty
decent rig, but that I'd also learn something along the way.

  With that goal in mind, and realizing that I certainly have a lot to
learn, I'll respectfully ask the members of this list, what probably is a
pretty basic question:

  I've also built the XG1 signal generator and would like to trace the
signal through my K2.  I've read through the Troubleshooting section of the
K2 Manual (Revision B) and it explains how to build a signal generator.  Of
course having the XG1, I didn't build the one in manual.  However, the
signal generator shown in the manual seems to have a variable output.  For
example, step 5 in the low pass filter section (page 11 of the
troubleshooting section) says to adjust the signal generator to 0.14 Vrms
and then check various pins to see if the voltages are at certain levels as
described in the manual.

  The XG1 is not variable in its output, so would the voltages be more or
less in the same proportion to those in the manuals which started with a
signal of 0.14 Vrms? (I'll be honest I didn't check the XG1 to see what the
Vrms output is on it.)

  Or is there a better approach I should be taking to this whole thing?  As
I said earlier, the K2 is working fine, I just would like to poke around and
see if I can wind up learning something when I'm done.

Thanks for any help or ideas you might have to offer.

Tom
WB2QDG
k2 1103




--
Daddy, why do they call it the "World Series" if its always played in the
Bronx?



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

As I said, I think the "soldering" part would be the least bothersome part of
assembling SMD board.  (PROVIDED...the assembler KNOWS HOW to solder!...
this was one of the BIGGEST problems I encountered fixing Heathkit stuff
other people put together.  Some looked like they used a heated mail for a 
soldering
iron!)
The biggest problem would be positioning and handling the components!
At least I think this would be the "kink" for people who KNOW how to
solder correctly!

73,
Sandy W5TVW
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Morrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?


| I wrote:
|
| >> SMT construction is specifically designed *only*  for machine
| >> assembly.  IMO, any SMT kit must come with almost all the SMT
| >> components pre-assembled to the PC boards to be acceptable.
|
| To which Blake responded:
|
| >Misinformation.
|
| The fact that some humans can manage to assemble some SMT components with 
varying
degrees of inconvenience does *not* alter the fact that SMT component packages 
*are*
designed first and foremost to facilitate machine assembly.  No designer of an 
SMT
component package ever sat down and added "ease of human manual assembly" to 
the list
of design criteria he had to meet.
|
| The second sentence began with "IMO" ("in my opinion").  An opinion expressing
personal preference is not "misinformation."  It *is* a fact that a manually
assembled SMT kit is unacceptable to me (and many many other likely kit 
builders).
|
| > I like SMT much better...  No board flipping and lead clipping.
|
| I'll accept that as a statement of personal preference.  Otherwise I might 
make the
same mistake and write "Misinformation!"
|
| 73
| Mike / KK5F
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|

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Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

I have an old Ungar "Princess" that might work?  Someday I mat try SMD
out, but I suspect I'll sooner or later drop some parts and probably never find 
them!
73,
Sandy W5TVW
- Original Message - 
From: "John Payne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sandy W5TVW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Frank C Van Cleef" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;

Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: SMT kits?

| Who needs an expensive "soldering station" for SMT?  I've built a couple of
| SMT projects with a standard soldering station (using a fine tip)with no
| problem.  If one looks for excuses, one can find them, and never do or learn
| anything new!  There are many cheap and easy tricks for SMT work, if one
| only cares to look a bit!
|
| 73 de John N4FLJ
| - Original Message - 
| From: "Sandy W5TVW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|
|
|
| > One "reason" I don't care with SMD stuff, is the cost of "proper"
| soldering gear for
| > them!  > Big smile ;^)
| >
|
|
|

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[Elecraft] Re: XG1 and K2 Signal Tracing

2004-08-10 Thread wayne burdick


On Aug 10, 2004, at 6:04 PM, Tom Mc wrote:


  I've also built the XG1 signal generator and would like to trace the
signal through my K2.


Hi Tom,

The signal put out by the XG1 is so low in amplitude that the only 
point in the circuit you can trace with it is the audio amplifier, and 
perhaps the output of the product detector. It is intended for 
calibration at signal levels usually only seen in on-air operation (1 
to 50 microvolts).


If you'd like to trace signals through the rest of the receive chain, 
you'll need a signal in the 10s or 100s of millivolts. That's where the 
oscillator in Appendix E comes in. We provided a full list of 
signal-tracing points based on the use of this oscillator and the RF 
probe supplied with the K2.


73,
Wayne
N6KR


---

http://www.elecraft.com

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RE:[Elecraft] XG1 and K2 Signal Tracing

2004-08-10 Thread James T. "Jim" Rogers

Tom wrote:
  The XG1 is not variable in its output, so would the voltages be more or
less in the same proportion to those in the manuals which started with a
signal of 0.14 Vrms? (I'll be honest I didn't check the XG1 to see what the
Vrms output is on it.)

Tom in a lot of cases, the answer would be yes, but you must take into
consideration other contributing factors that may distort the result. For
instance AGC applied to a reciever stage would reduce the gain of that
stage.
I have found a great thing to do is to using the equipment you have at
hand, ie the XG1, make you own measurements at the points suggested and
record them. Walk through the whole procedure doing this. Now you have a
baseline for your rig using a specific array of test equipment. Once you
have done this, then as you re-align, fix, repair you always will have a
reference point utilizing your equipment. You will know whether the
performance has been enhanced or degraded.
A lot of time we will spin our wheels trying to get some reading in a
published procedure that is given to us only as a guideline. You are on the
right track. Get familiar with your equipment and keep a log of what you
find. You will be rewarded for your efforts. Good Show OM!

73 and Have Fun.
Jim W4ATK
K2 #4028

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RE: [Elecraft] SMT kits and Elecraft