Re: RTTE Directive
Thomas, Check the equipment list on http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/rtte/listeq.htm Amund, Oslo/Norway On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:52:11 -0500 Courtland Thomas ctho...@patton.com wrote: Hello Group, I would like to know if there is a list of equipment that falls under the RTTE Directive. My area of concern is converters, such as RS-232 to RS-485, V.35 to G.704, etc.. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Electrical knock out - force to remove
This is in a non-accessible area at the rear of a 19 rack-mount power supply. Only service or maintenance people can access. Also, the knock out cannot be pushed inward on the chassis, only outward when the top cover is removed. -doug = Douglas E. Powell Regulatory Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. 1625 Sharp Point Dr. Ft. Collins, Co 80525 mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com www.advanced-energy.com = -Original Message- From: rbus...@es.com [mailto:rbus...@es.com] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:01 PM To: doug.pow...@aei.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrical knock out - force to remove Is this outlet box accessible to non trained persons? In other words is it mounted outside of an enclosure? A few days ago it was brought to my attention that any outlet box with knockouts cannot be used in accessible areas. This includes the OUTSIDE of a wall where conduit is routed. These knockout boxes are designed with the assumption that they will be inside a wall or other enclosure. Rick -Original Message- From: POWELL, DOUG [mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:51 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Electrical knock out - force to remove Hello group, I have a product that uses optional 1/2 half-shear electrical knock outs for conduit connections. Can anyone direct me to specific requirements on how much or how little force is required to remove these knock outs? Is a tool required or not if it only pushes outward? thanks, -doug = Douglas E. Powell Regulatory Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. 1625 Sharp Point Dr. Ft. Collins, Co 80525 mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com www.advanced-energy.com = --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
R2D Certification
Hello Group, I have yet another question. Does anyone know what R2D certification is? I was asked if our equipment has Bulgarian certification for R2D. I am not familiar with the term. Thanks, Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Ferrites experience ....... last comment
To the Ferrite discussion: I've refrained from responding to the ferrite question because of being away but I would confirm what Amand states. I use powdered iron FT240-43 from Fair-Rite as they make them for Amidon and have the properties desired to reduce common mode signals appearing on connecting cables to consumer devices- VCR, TV sets, Hi-Fi speaker cables etc. I have treated over 300 cases of RF getting into telephones ( via the phone cable connection) , VCRs via the sheath on the TV cable , modems, speaker cables etc. Success in siolating the offending RF ( 500Khz- over 30Mhz ) has been in ecess of 90%. I say if it works, don't know kit,. 20 years ago I had an EMC engineer characterise the attenutaion over the above frequency range and Mix 43, with init. perm of 850 was the best compromise. As Amand states Mix 77 would work better below 500Khz. The minimum attenutaion was 15dB and approached 27dB at 35Mhz . At 30 dB it provided rejection of RF common mode signals of 25dB. It is important that between 8-9 tuuns be used and spaced over the surface of the toroid to flatten the attenuation curve. Many telephone filters made by ATT and others I have found to have a very peaked response over the HF range and will work sometimes and sometimes not. The nice thing about external devices like this are they don't degrade performance in any way, are re-useable, quite economical and easy to install. It is also important to keep the toroids as close as possible to the device being protected in order to minimize pickup due to re radiation. This is a simple procedure which many manaufacturers overlook , yet could save them a bundle in returned product and in some cases litigation. The components can be used to suppress incoming RF our outgoing.from the product. I started out doing this type of suppression free of charge but after using several hundred toroids ( the 2.4 O.D. ones for power line cables) I started to recover my costs. These thinbgs really do work. Ralph Cameron EMC Consutling and Suppression of Consumer Electronics ( After sale) - Original Message - From: am...@westin.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:22 PM Subject: Re: Ferrites experience ... last comment Hi all, Many thanks to all of you who participated in this ferrite discusson. I have leard a lot about ferrites the last 10 days. In my special case, I would like to give you some information: We had a problem with conducted emisson on the DC supply line to a telecom product. The harmonic switching frequency was 160kHz and our problems was in the range 160kHz-5MHz. We used a toroid (DC cable five turns in the Toroid)and we managed to decrease the noise about 10-15dB in the frequency range 1-5MHz. The toroid had an outer/inner diameter of 61mm/36mm (a big one). We used a toroid with material 43 and its permeability is approximate 850. Material 43 has its application areas from 30-200MHz, so we should have had a toroid with an other material. I think a toroid with a material 77 (permeability 2000) could have helped us with the 160kHz-1MHz band. Next time . One last comment, try to avoid snap-on ferrites. Remember the air gap, you will have a large increase in the impedance even if you use strips to tighten it together. Use the solid ones See you later. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway On 6 Mar 2001 19:16:37 - am...@westin.org wrote: Hi all, During conducted emission test, we have 150kHz power supply switching distrubance on the 48VDC-line, and we can not insert capacitors,chokes or any filters on the line. Do you have any experience using ferrites to suppress noise in the band 100kHz - 5MHz ? We have used ferrites with success on I/O-lines during radiated emission, but no experience on DC-lines (use LISN). Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo / Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
Electrical knock out - force to remove
Hello group, I have a product that uses optional 1/2 half-shear electrical knock outs for conduit connections. Can anyone direct me to specific requirements on how much or how little force is required to remove these knock outs? Is a tool required or not if it only pushes outward? thanks, -doug = Douglas E. Powell Regulatory Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. 1625 Sharp Point Dr. Ft. Collins, Co 80525 mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com www.advanced-energy.com = --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: PFC filter
ad.82daed6.27e25...@aol.com, peterh...@aol.com inimitably wrote: I have been told by a customer that there are PFC filter available commercially off the shelf just like the EMI filter that I can buy and put it in front of my power supply and the PFC filter will cure most of the harmonic problems. Is this ture? If so can anyone let me have some manufacturer name or web address for these filters please? It is substantially not true, in that no such device will, for example, eliminate even the low-order harmonic currents of an SMPS. If you had something that produced only, or mainly, one specific harmonic, then a filter would be practicable. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2
Div 1 = normally hazardous. Div 2 = only hazardous in the event of a failure (e.g. ventilation breakdown, pipe/tank rupture). For that reason, Div 2 hardware need only pass in the normal operating state, no circuit faults are considered. The logic being applied is that two unrelated faults are not going to happen at the same time. It's very easy for many types of product to pass the Div. 2 requirements with little or no modification. Div. 1 is another matter. The product has to be made to be effectively intrinsically safe. It cannot be capable of causing ignition via spark or temperature with any two induced failures. You'll need to learn about diode barriers, purged enclosures, and explosion proof technologies to decide whether you want to proceed with this compliance. If you're still interested, then I suggest that you got to the NFPA site and purchase Electrical Installations in Hazardous Locations at: http://www.nfpacatalog.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/STORE/PAGES/HLH-97.htm?L+nfpanonmembers+tbba4286 Best of luck, Carl From: Loop, Robert rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com on 03/15/2001 11:13 AM Please respond to Loop, Robert rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Carl Newton/XYCOM) Subject: Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2 Hello Group, I need some education on Classified/Hazardous locations. What is the difference between a product that is certified to Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2? If I had a product that was certified to Division 2, what would be needed to make it pass Division 1 requirements? I apologize for my ignorance, there are simply too many standards out there and this is out of my league. Sincerely, Robert Loop Engineering Supervisor Wyle Laboratories Product Safety ph - (256) 837-4411 x313 fax- (256) 721-0144 e-mail: rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: PFC filter
Hi Peter, Try Ro Associates Inc. http://www.roassoc.com or Vicor http://www.vicr.com or Motorola Regards, Carmen, Leitch -Original Message- From: peterh...@aol.com [SMTP:peterh...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 12:06 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: PFC filter Hello All, I have been told by a customer that there are PFC filter available commercially off the shelf just like the EMI filter that I can buy and put it in front of my power supply and the PFC filter will cure most of the harmonic problems. Is this ture? If so can anyone let me have some manufacturer name or web address for these filters please? Thanks Peter --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: PFC filter
If it is passive check its effect on power factor. I saw one yesterday that reduced power factor to - 0.33. on 3/15/01 11:05 AM, peterh...@aol.com at peterh...@aol.com wrote: Hello All, I have been told by a customer that there are PFC filter available commercially off the shelf just like the EMI filter that I can buy and put it in front of my power supply and the PFC filter will cure most of the harmonic problems. Is this ture? If so can anyone let me have some manufacturer name or web address for these filters please? Thanks Peter --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2
Robert, Check out the National Electric Code (NFPA 70) Article 500-7(a) and 500-7(b) for your answer, but simply stated, In a Division 1 location, the hazardous atmosphere is assumed to be present under normal conditions, and a Division 2 location, the hazardous atmosphere is present under abnormal conditions (a chemical spill, leak, etc.) What is needed to bring a Division 2 product into compliance with Division 1 requirements? It ultimately depends on what the product is, and what method of protection was employed. I will assume that the Division 2 product was evaluated as a Non-Incendive product, if this is the case, then that product was only investigated under normal operating conditions. To upgrade the certification to a Division 1 location, one would have to look at the product operating under normal operating conditions, a single fault condition, and also a double fault condition (whichever is worst case...NOTE: a double fault is not always worst case). If you are NOT using Non-Incendive/Intrinsic Safety type protection then I would have to have a little more information about the product as well as the method of protection being used. Contact the lab who did the original certification, they should have some intimate knowledge of the product and be able to tell you after reviewing the original investigation data if upgrading to a Division 1 classification would even be possible for the product, but be forewarned, it is usually not a simple process and may require some rather severe product modifications. Kevin Robinson Senior Project Engineer/QA Safety Laboratory MET Laboratories The Nation's FIRST NRTL Phone: (410) 354-3300 x 361 Fax: (410) 354-3313 -Original Message- From: Loop, Robert [SMTP:rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:13 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2 Hello Group, I need some education on Classified/Hazardous locations. What is the difference between a product that is certified to Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2? If I had a product that was certified to Division 2, what would be needed to make it pass Division 1 requirements? I apologize for my ignorance, there are simply too many standards out there and this is out of my league. Sincerely, Robert Loop Engineering Supervisor Wyle Laboratories Product Safety ph - (256) 837-4411 x313 fax- (256) 721-0144 e-mail: rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2
Robert: To my best recollection, the essential difference is that Div. 2 is an environment subject to occasional presence (leaks) of flammable/explosive gases, while Div. 1 is where this stuff is always present or potentially present. I suppose this is a simplification, but I think it expresses things correctly. What you need to do, is ideally, to design for Div 1 in the first place. I mean that it is engineering's job to design for Div 1 NOT test or safety's job to obtain compliance to Div 1. That said, I know that's not how it often works. I had good results with Factory Mutual in doing testing and gaining approvals for hazardous locations. Hazardous location design has many departures from the usual UL 1950/ 60950 type safety considerations. Regards, Jack Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Phone: 716 442 3909 Fax: 716 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org - Original Message - From: Loop, Robert rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:13 AM Subject: Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2 Hello Group, I need some education on Classified/Hazardous locations. What is the difference between a product that is certified to Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2? If I had a product that was certified to Division 2, what would be needed to make it pass Division 1 requirements? I apologize for my ignorance, there are simply too many standards out there and this is out of my league. Sincerely, Robert Loop Engineering Supervisor Wyle Laboratories Product Safety ph - (256) 837-4411 x313 fax- (256) 721-0144 e-mail: rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
PFC filter
Hello All, I have been told by a customer that there are PFC filter available commercially off the shelf just like the EMI filter that I can buy and put it in front of my power supply and the PFC filter will cure most of the harmonic problems. Is this ture? If so can anyone let me have some manufacturer name or web address for these filters please? Thanks Peter --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2
Hello Robert, A visit to the Safety Link www.safetylink.com and an in-page search on the term hazloc will deliver you to a spot within the Safety Link with several very good tutorials and other resources on this topic. Regards, Art Michael Int'l Product Safety News A.E. Michael, Editor 166 Congdon St. East P.O. Box 1561 Middletown CT 06457 U.S.A. Phone : (860) 344-1651 Fax: (860) 346-9066 Email : i...@connix.com Website: http://www.safetylink.com ISSN : 1040-7529 -- On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Loop, Robert wrote: Hello Group, I need some education on Classified/Hazardous locations. What is the difference between a product that is certified to Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2? If I had a product that was certified to Division 2, what would be needed to make it pass Division 1 requirements? I apologize for my ignorance, there are simply too many standards out there and this is out of my league. Sincerely, Robert Loop Engineering Supervisor Wyle Laboratories Product Safety ph - (256) 837-4411 x313 fax- (256) 721-0144 e-mail: rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: code of conduct for low power supplies
abejkckdfonelaipofhnmebiecaa.cet...@cetest.nl, CE-test - Ing. Gert Gremmen - ce-marking and more... cet...@cetest.nl wrote: Last week I mentioned the introduction of new regulations for the power limitation of small power supplies. I looked up the document and can tell you the following: Currently this regulation exist in the from of a Code of conduct: That is useful information. What is the reference number of this Code of conduct and which committee developed it? Was it produced in CENELEC or somewhere else? 'prEN50301' is no longer a 'pr'; it was published in February, and is a standard that I was mildly involved in. It is for measuring the power consumption of audio, video and similar equipment and is not suitable, without an immense amount of 'interpretation', for the measurement of external power supplies with no load. A proposed Amendment to EN50301 was officially abandoned in January this year. Does anyone know what it was about? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Engineer in hell
In view of recent postings, I hope no one minds me posting the following which arrived in my in-box today Nick _ An engineer dies and reports to the pearly gates. St. Peter checks his dossier and says, Ah, you're an engineer--you're in the wrong place. So the engineer reports to the gates of hell and is let in. Pretty soon, the engineer gets dissatisfied with the level of comfort in hell, and starts designing and building improvements. After a while they've got air conditioning and flush toilets and escalators, and the engineer is a pretty popular guy. One day God calls Satan up on the telephone and says with a sneer, So, how's it going down there in hell? Satan replies, Hey, things are going great. We've got air conditioning and flush toilets and escalators, and there's no telling what this engineer is going to come up with next. God replies, What??? You've got an engineer? That's a mistake! He should never have gotten down there; send him up here. Satan says, No way. I like having an engineer on the staff, and I'm keeping him. God says, Send him back up here or I'll sue. Satan laughs uproariously and answers, Yeah, right. And just where are YOU going to get a lawyer? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2
Hello Group, I need some education on Classified/Hazardous locations. What is the difference between a product that is certified to Class I Division 1 versus Class I Division 2? If I had a product that was certified to Division 2, what would be needed to make it pass Division 1 requirements? I apologize for my ignorance, there are simply too many standards out there and this is out of my league. Sincerely, Robert Loop Engineering Supervisor Wyle Laboratories Product Safety ph - (256) 837-4411 x313 fax- (256) 721-0144 e-mail: rl...@hnt.wylelabs.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RTTE Directive
Hello Group, I would like to know if there is a list of equipment that falls under the RTTE Directive. My area of concern is converters, such as RS-232 to RS-485, V.35 to G.704, etc.. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Cable Harnesses and Product Safety (UL1950/CSA C22.2 no. 950)
Hi Paul, For wire: CSA/UR Source: type of wire, gauge, rated voltage, max temperature, flammability rating, For shrinkable tubing: CSA/UR Source: material, rated voltage, flammability rating, max temperature, thickness You should get also a Declaration of Conformity from the cable harnesses' vendor that states all lot complies with your specs and you perform a follow-up procedure for part traceability on-site. The DoC has a spec sheet attached to it indicating manuf name, part number, date of manuf., manuf. names or UL/E # and CSA/LR # for wiring and sleeving, especially when wiring/sleeving source is changed. All lot or the package must be labeled with outside vendor' s name, part/code number, date of manufacturing, rev, stamped verified/inspected by QC, easy to trace by your QC dept. and inspect by your product NRTL's auditor. These thoughts reflect my opinion only, I' m willing to get other people' opinions into this problem. Regards, Carmen Filimon Leitch, Canada -Original Message- From: Hare, Paul [SMTP:ph...@pirus.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 7:05 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Cable Harnesses and Product Safety (UL1950/CSA C22.2 no. 950) I use an outside vendor to assemble various cable harnesses for my products. The vendor is recognized by UL and CSA and undergoes quarterly audits. I supply a drawing that specifies certain components (e.g. Connector X, Line Filter Y). However, I leave it up to them to use whatever UL/CSA recognized wire and shrink tube they have laying around. (I indicate the color, gauge, etc., but not the manufacturer or part number.) When my product safety evaluation is performed, what documentation do I need to satisfy the UL/CSA engineer regarding the wire and shrink tube? Comments are appreciated. Paul Hare e: ph...@pirus.com Compliance Engineer w: 978.206.9179 Pirus Networks f: 978.206.9199 43 Nagog Park c: 508.450.0376 Acton, MA 01720 i: www.pirus.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Cable Harnesses and Product Safety (UL1950/CSA C22.2 no. 950)
I would state the requirements (UL Recognized) for the wire, heat shrink, etc. on the print somewhere. You may want to also set up some sort of certification process with your supplier, that is, you and your supplier work up a certification document stating that components used on your assembly are constructed using UL Recognized parts. This cert is completed and shipped with each shipment of your cables. We presently do this on some of our components that appear on the UL Test Report, such as transformers, finished plastic parts. It has pleased two of our UL field inspectors over the past years, so far so good! Good Luck! -Original Message- From: Hare, Paul [mailto:ph...@pirus.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 6:05 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Cable Harnesses and Product Safety (UL1950/CSA C22.2 no. 950) I use an outside vendor to assemble various cable harnesses for my products. The vendor is recognized by UL and CSA and undergoes quarterly audits. I supply a drawing that specifies certain components (e.g. Connector X, Line Filter Y). However, I leave it up to them to use whatever UL/CSA recognized wire and shrink tube they have laying around. (I indicate the color, gauge, etc., but not the manufacturer or part number.) When my product safety evaluation is performed, what documentation do I need to satisfy the UL/CSA engineer regarding the wire and shrink tube? Comments are appreciated. Paul Hare e: ph...@pirus.com Compliance Engineer w: 978.206.9179 Pirus Networks f: 978.206.9199 43 Nagog Park c: 508.450.0376 Acton, MA 01720 i: www.pirus.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
ANNOUNCE - FAQ: Sources of EMC Safety Compliance Information, 59th Issue
FAQ: Sources of EMC Safety Compliance Information This is to let you know that I have just posted in two parts the 59th issue of the above FAQ to the newsgroup for regulatory/compliance matters and EMC and safety specifications and testing, sci.engr.electrical.compliance (s.e.e.c). The message IDs are: Part 1: 20010315.1205.47379...@lyons.demon.co.uk Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:05:05 + (GMT) Part 2: 20010315.1207.47380...@lyons.demon.co.uk Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:07:23 + (GMT) Courtesy of Martin Rowe, the FAQ is archived at the following URL: http://world.std.com/~techbook/compliance_faq.html and the Japanese version, courtesy Tom Sato, at: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/tsato/seec-faq/ The latest versions should appear there in the next few days. The textfiles may be accessed at: Part 1: http://www.lyons.demon.co.uk/seecfaq1.txt Part 2: http://www.lyons.demon.co.uk/seecfaq2.txt Hope you find the FAQ useful: suggestions for additions or corrections are welcomed. Technical comments/queries to me, b...@lyons.demon.co.uk, please. Comments re web implementations only to the respective webmasters, Martin martin.r...@alum.wpi.edu or Tom vef00...@nifty.ne.jp. -- Bill Lyons - b...@lyons.demon.co.uk / w.ly...@ieee.org Maintainer of the sci.engr.electrical.compliance (s.e.e.c) FAQ = Claude Lyons Limited Brook Road Waltham Cross Herts EN8 7LR England Voltage and Power Control - Precise Electrical Instrumentation Tel: +44 1992 768 888 Fax: +44 1992 788 000 email: i...@claudelyons.co.uk URL: http://www.claudelyons.co.uk = --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: RTTE Packaging
Bob, the Directive does required markings on the packaging, but it does not define the type of packaging. It is my opinion that the sales package was intended and not the shipping package. In my case, I only have a shipping package, so I have applied the markings there. The CE mark must be followed by the 4 digit Notified Body number if a NB was required to be used according to Annex III or IV. If the product is a radio device and the band is not harmonized, the Alert symbol must follow the NB number. Also, in that case, information must be on the packaging to inform the user as to the intended geographical areas where the equipment may be used. We apply the 2-letter ISO country codes. The extended CE marking must also appear on the Declaration of Conformity. Richard Woods -- From: rehel...@mmm.com [SMTP:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 8:00 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RTTE Packaging I saw some postings recently to the following question but I was not able to browse the recent archives so I will ask the question again. Under the RTTE Directive is there any labeling requirements for the product packaging or shipping packaging? If so, what is required? Thanks, Bob --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Cable Harnesses and Product Safety (UL1950/CSA C22.2 no. 950)
Paul - If you specify on your drawings that the harnesses (cables) are to be UL R/C (or Listed) and CSA Certified, your vendor should place the required markings or agency labels on the packaging or product as specified in their UL agreement. You need to have the packaging available when the FUS inspector comes around, and the markings/labels should be all that the inspector needs to see. Jim Lyons James W. Lyons Manager - Product Compliance GTECH Corp. 55 Technology Way West Greenwich, RI 02817 Tel (401) 392-7723 Fax (401) 392-4955 Email jim.ly...@gtech.com -Original Message- From: Hare, Paul [mailto:ph...@pirus.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 7:05 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Cable Harnesses and Product Safety (UL1950/CSA C22.2 no. 950) I use an outside vendor to assemble various cable harnesses for my products. The vendor is recognized by UL and CSA and undergoes quarterly audits. I supply a drawing that specifies certain components (e.g. Connector X, Line Filter Y). However, I leave it up to them to use whatever UL/CSA recognized wire and shrink tube they have laying around. (I indicate the color, gauge, etc., but not the manufacturer or part number.) When my product safety evaluation is performed, what documentation do I need to satisfy the UL/CSA engineer regarding the wire and shrink tube? Comments are appreciated. Paul Hare e: ph...@pirus.com Compliance Engineer w: 978.206.9179 Pirus Networks f: 978.206.9199 43 Nagog Park c: 508.450.0376 Acton, MA 01720 i: www.pirus.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RTTE Packaging
I saw some postings recently to the following question but I was not able to browse the recent archives so I will ask the question again. Under the RTTE Directive is there any labeling requirements for the product packaging or shipping packaging? If so, what is required? Thanks, Bob --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Chicago IEEE EMC Meeting Notice 3/21/01
Welcome to the IEEE EMC Chicago Chapter Website! The purpose of this site is to inform our local EMC engineers with information related to the IEEE EMC Chicago Chapter. Please bookmark this page for future reference, and especially look to this site for news related to the EMC community. You are all invited to our next EMC Chapter meeting. List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wednesday March 21, 2001 Time: 7:30 pm (Social time 7:00 pm) Location: Lucent, Naperville, Illinois. Directions from I-355 and I-88. Head West on I-88 1/2 mile to Naperville Rd. Go North on Naperville Rd to Warrenville Rd. Turn Left (West) on Warrenville Rd. Go West 700 feet or so,past the new building and turn Right (North) about 300 feet. Turn Right (East) and go toward the new entrance. Topic: Horror stories in Automating EMC Testing. Presenter: Mike Hart, President, Quantum Change Systems Abstract: A frank discussion of the pitfalls found when automating EMC measurements. Discussion includes idiosyncracies of different manufacturers. Issues of BIOS's. Detecting errors in both commands and implementation. What to do when nothing works. Verifying your results - and what happens when your verification does not work either. One good thing about all these problems - Job Security for the EMC engineer. Mike Hart has been President of Quantum Change since it's inception, and previously was President and founder or EMCO Antennas. Chicago Chapter Chatter Meeting Schedule | Officers | Chapter Events | Past Presentations | National EMC Society IEEE National | 2000 Calendar | Officers Membership I want to join the I.E.E.E. now! | I need to renew now! Send comments about this web site to Frank Krozel ieeec1.jpgieeec2.jpgImage13.gif
Re: Flicker problem
So the real problem lies with the power companies for the power outage in the first place...(just joking). = John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk on 03/14/2001 12:03:56 PM Please respond to John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: Wagner, John P (John) johnwag...@avaya.com cc: EMC-PSTC emc-p...@ieee.org Colgan, Chris chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com (bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) Subject: Re: Flicker problem 4203d61676d0ae468aa5cea90a891c13235...@cof110avexu4.global.avaya.com, Wagner, John P (John) johnwag...@avaya.com wrote: I think this refers to Amendment 1of IEC 61000-3-3 published January 2001. Apparently it has not yet been transposed into an EN. It was dual-voted, so it will be. ? The amendment (at least as it effects me) deals primarily with requirements and limits for inrush current. Well, inrush current is dealt with in the unamended standard, but neither that or the amendment deal with it directly. Limits are expressed as 'dmax', the maximum relative voltage change, measured as an r.m.s. value over the worst half-cycle, starting from the zero-crossing. The amendment goes into much more detail about this, and gives relaxed limits for some types of equipment. The main problem with inrush current is where there is a lot of equipment in one location, and there is a power outage. When the power comes back on, cumulative inrush current may reach many tens of times normal load current, causing protective devices to operate and restore the 'outage'! In some cases, protective equipment has been damaged. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: FCC Labelling/Marking
Hello Steve and All, For your case (Verification Class A Digital Device) please be advised as follows: 1. The statement This device ... undesired operation needs to be placed on the product. If the product is too small, you may place it in: a. The User Instruction Manual b. The pamphlet supplied to the user c. The container in which the product is marketed (See Section 15.10.(5).) 2. The other statement needs to be placed in the User Manual (See Section 15.105). Regards Shaike Raz EMC Laboratory Manager EMC Laboratory ITL (Product Testing) Ltd. Kfar Bin Nun Israel Tel: +972-8-9797799 Fax: +972-8-9797702 Email: s...@itl.co.il -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 7:12 PM To: 'Steve Austin'; emc pstc Cc: Shaike Raz Subject: RE: FCC labels Steve and All, I would assume that if your unit is small enough so as not to be able to have all the wording, you could get an authorization from the FCC. Please confirm. Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.ilwebsite: website: http://www.itl.co.il http://www.itl.co.il/ TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! -Original Message- From: Steve Austin [mailto:aus...@cassindustries.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 2:27 PM To: emc pstc Subject: FCC labels Using the FCC verification procedure for a Class A digital device, does the label on the unit have to contain the complete statement This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) This device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation. or will This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. be acceptable. I understand that the following statement must be shown in the documentation supplied with the unit. This equipment has been tested and found to comply with the limits for a Class A digital device, pursuant to part 15 of the FCC Rules. These limits are designed to provide reasonable protection against harmful interference when the equipment is operated in a commercial environment. This equipment generates, uses, and can radiate radio frequency energy and, if not installed and used in accordance with the instruction manual, may cause harmful interference to radio communications. Operation of this equipment in a residential area is likely to cause harmful interference in which case the user will be required to correct the interference at his own expense Regards Steve Austin CASS Industries Limited austin @cassindustries.com
Re: Flicker problem
200103142314.paa04...@epgc196.sdd.hp.com, Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com
inimitably wrote:
I often wonder whether being able to measure a
phenomenon means that we should therefore control
that phenomenon. Phenomena such as flicker and EMC
have been observable long before the advent of suitable
measuring equipment. Clearly, in the absence of the
ability to measure any phenomenon, we cannot control it.
But, do we sometimes control it because we can measure
it?
Yes, sometimes. Your description of how to measure dmax without using
the costly standard flicker-meter is mostly correct. A storage scope is
really the only practical way. You only have to be sure that dmx is less
than the limit value: you don't need to know very accurately what its
actual value is.
I described what the standard specifies. In practice, I tell people to
see whether the equipment produces a noticeable disturbance of the
brightness of a 60 W lamp on the same circuit. But the proposed new
('amended' - they retained the commas and put new words between them)
doesn't allow you to do that - you HAVE to use the flicker meter, which
means hiring a test-house that has one.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. Phone +44 (0)1268 747839
Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Foxhunters suffer from
tallyhosis. PLEASE do not mail copies of newsgroup posts to me.
---
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RE: Cable Harnesses and Product Safety (UL1950/CSA C22.2 no. 950)
Call out requirements for recognized material VW-1 etc on the drawing. Then have the vendor mark the cables with their recognition mark, either toe tags or on the box. Show that to the inspector just like you would any recognized part. But have control of your vendor - you should have some feedback mechanism that says you approve the material before he uses it, again just like any other second source component. Gary -Original Message- From: Hare, Paul [mailto:ph...@pirus.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:05 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Cable Harnesses and Product Safety (UL1950/CSA C22.2 no. 950) I use an outside vendor to assemble various cable harnesses for my products. The vendor is recognized by UL and CSA and undergoes quarterly audits. I supply a drawing that specifies certain components (e.g. Connector X, Line Filter Y). However, I leave it up to them to use whatever UL/CSA recognized wire and shrink tube they have laying around. (I indicate the color, gauge, etc., but not the manufacturer or part number.) When my product safety evaluation is performed, what documentation do I need to satisfy the UL/CSA engineer regarding the wire and shrink tube? Comments are appreciated. Paul Hare e: ph...@pirus.com Compliance Engineer w: 978.206.9179 Pirus Networks f: 978.206.9199 43 Nagog Park c: 508.450.0376 Acton, MA 01720 i: www.pirus.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: FCC labels
yup - digital watch makers about had a cow over this years ago, but I don't think they define small. [Gary McInturff] Gary -Original Message- From: Fleury, Bill [mailto:bi...@artesyncp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 2:01 PM To: 'Peter Merguerian'; 'Steve Austin'; emc pstc Cc: Shaike Raz Subject: RE: FCC labels All, Correct me if I'm reading too much into this but I believe that if you read far enough in 15.19 it says that if the device is too small to include the wording that you can simply put the statement in the users manual. Bill Fleury -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:12 AM To: 'Steve Austin'; emc pstc Cc: Shaike Raz Subject: RE: FCC labels Steve and All, I would assume that if your unit is small enough so as not to be able to have all the wording, you could get an authorization from the FCC. Please confirm. Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.ilwebsite: website: http://www.itl.co.il http://www.itl.co.il/ TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! -Original Message- From: Steve Austin [mailto:aus...@cassindustries.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 2:27 PM To: emc pstc Subject: FCC labels Using the FCC verification procedure for a Class A digital device, does the label on the unit have to contain the complete statement This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) This device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation. or will This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. be acceptable. I understand that the following statement must be shown in the documentation supplied with the unit. This equipment has been tested and found to comply with the limits for a Class A digital device, pursuant to part 15 of the FCC Rules. These limits are designed to provide reasonable protection against harmful interference when the equipment is operated in a commercial environment. This equipment generates, uses, and can radiate radio frequency energy and, if not installed and used in accordance with the instruction manual, may cause harmful interference to radio communications. Operation of this equipment in a residential area is likely to cause harmful interference in which case the user will be required to correct the interference at his own expense Regards Steve Austin CASS Industries Limited austin @cassindustries.com
RE: Chinese GB/T17626.6-1998 standard
My understanding is that the GB-9254-1998 is similar to CISPR 22 and the GB-4943-1995 is similar to IEC 60950. Anderson Cheng -原始郵件- 寄件者: wo...@sensormatic.com [SMTP:wo...@sensormatic.com] 傳送時間: 2001年3月15日 AM 04:18 收件者: emc-p...@ieee.org 主旨: RE: Chinese GB/T17626.6-1998 standard BSI translates many standards. Give them a call. Richard Woods -- From: Clement Dave-LDC009 [SMTP:dave.clem...@motorola.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 2:45 PM To: 'geor...@lexmark.com'; david_l_tarnow...@email.whirlpool.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Chinese GB/T17626.6-1998 standard The Chinese are not generating official english copies of these standards. You will either need to find a service that has them translated or have it done your self. David Clement Motorola Inc. Global Homologation Engineering 20 Cabot Blvd. Mansfield, MA 02048 P: 508-261-4389 F: 508-261-4777 C: 508-725-9689 E: mailto:dave.clem...@motorola.com -Original Message- From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 1:33 PM To: david_l_tarnow...@email.whirlpool.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Chinese GB/T17626.6-1998 standard It is my understanding that the PRC EMC standard is GB-9254-1998. That is listed on our CCIB certificates along with GB-4943-1995 (safety). I do not know how to obtain an English copy. George david_l_tarnowski%email.whirlpool@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/14/2001 12:32:52 PM Please respond to david_l_tarnowski%email.whirlpool@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Chinese GB/T17626.6-1998 standard Happy Wednesday, everybody! Is it true that the GB/T17626.6-1998 standard is China's version of IEC61000-4-6? Does anyone know how I can get a copy (in English)? Dave Tarnowski Whirlpool Corporation --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
Re: ITE/Telecom Equipment for Japan
The Japanese laws about product safety will change from T-mark to PSE-mark, effective from April 1st, 2001. As for AC Adapters that already have T-Mark approval, there is a 5 year period for which they can continue to be sold OR to the point when their T-Mark license expires. Power Cords and AC Adapters are Class A products under the new scheme and as such the T-Mark will be replaced with the following PSE logo. Japan PSE SpecificA.gif Anderson Cheng -原始郵件- 寄件者: wo...@sensormatic.com [SMTP:wo...@sensormatic.com] 傳送時間: 2001年3月14日 PM 09:37 收件者: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 主旨: RE: ITE/Telecom Equipment for Japan Under the current regulations, EMC approval (VCCI) is voluntary and the only ITE that requires safety approval is AC adapters (the T mark). Will that change after April? Richard Woods -- From: Anderson Cheng(TPE) [SMTP:anderson_ch...@htc.com.tw] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 10:17 PM To: 'Peter Merguerian'; EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Cc: Ilan Cohen Subject: RE: ITE/Telecom Equipment for Japan Hi Peter, It depends on the configurations of your products. Since the Japan safety law is going to be changed from April 1, 2001. My understanding is that the ITE power supply (Category A products) shall obtain the PSE-mark approval. With the aid of CB report will be helpful to shorten the testing time. As for EMC, it's suggested to get voluntary VCCI approval increasing the market acceptance. As for PTT of Telecom Equipment, you should get the JATE approval. Regards, Anderson -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 3:37 PM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Cc: Ilan Cohen Subject: ITE/Telecom Equipment for Japan Dear All, For an ITE or Telecom Equipment with UL Listing and TUV Rheinland GS Marks only, rated properly (100-230V), and Intended for Japan: 1. Will the equipment be accepted without any additional tests? 2. Will the equipment be accepted without a CB Test Report? 3. Are the Japanese deviations to IEC 950 mandatory or can equipment be imported with the UL and TUV GS Marks only? I would appreciate any experiences many of you have had with exports of ITE/Telecom equipment to Japan and the new regulatory requirements there. Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! attachment: Japan PSE SpecificA.gif
Cable Harnesses and Product Safety (UL1950/CSA C22.2 no. 950)
I use an outside vendor to assemble various cable harnesses for my products. The vendor is recognized by UL and CSA and undergoes quarterly audits. I supply a drawing that specifies certain components (e.g. Connector X, Line Filter Y). However, I leave it up to them to use whatever UL/CSA recognized wire and shrink tube they have laying around. (I indicate the color, gauge, etc., but not the manufacturer or part number.) When my product safety evaluation is performed, what documentation do I need to satisfy the UL/CSA engineer regarding the wire and shrink tube? Comments are appreciated. Paul Hare e: ph...@pirus.com Compliance Engineer w: 978.206.9179 Pirus Networks f: 978.206.9199 43 Nagog Park c: 508.450.0376 Acton, MA 01720 i: www.pirus.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
