Resource for Online Standard.

[Cheng-Wee Lai]

All,

I know this might be a very stupid question to ask, but is there a place
where I can pay a flat subscription fee and able to read all these new
standard (e.g. all these IEC, EN, ISO, ANSI, UL, AU/NZ etc), so I don't need
to worry about collecting all the up to date standard.

Cause by the time I get the whole set, I find myself ready to redo the
collecting cycle again because there are new edition coming.

Cheng-Wee Lai





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RE: Apology to Agilent Technologies and Hewlett-Packard

[Gert Gremmen]

I was not going to add to this discussion,
but this message is going to far.
World wide liberty of expression -in decent terms-
positive or negative, about any commercial
entity MUST  be allowed.

If the IEEE is going to "lick the heels" of
companies who are very well able to defend themselves,
then the EMC-SCTC list will have received
the last contribution from me.

Agilent/HP has taken several decisions in the past 
that were -seen from the point of customers- ,
well justified by a many of the remarks that has been
posted on this list.

I believe that instead of writing this -invitation
to auto-censure- the IEEE could have asked Agilent
to write an reply from their point of view.

I have been considering to become a member of IEEE,
this contribution has definely put that on the 
long list.

Regards,

Gert Gremmen
ce-test, qualified testing
Rotterdam, The Netherlands 

http://www.ce-test.nl




From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of David Heald
Sent: vrijdag 7 februari 2003 21:25
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Apology to Agilent Technologies and Hewlett-Packard
Importance: High



To:  Agilent Technologies and Hewlett-Packard:


  The administrators of the IEEE emc-pstc listserver
  apologize to Agilent Technologies and Hewlett-Packard
  for the derogatory remarks recently posted to this
  listserver.

  We take every effort to maintain a high level of
  professionalism in postings.  Because of our high-
  level expectations, we do not moderate the postings.
  Occasionally, some inappropriate content is posted,
  and we immediately notify our subscribers and seek
  to quench any further inappropriate content.

  We did notify our subscribers.  Unfortunately, a
  number of inappropriate remarks were posted before
  our notice was fully distributed.

  On this occasion, as in other similar occastions,
  some of our subscribers send us private responses
  supporting our action.  While we wish these actions
  were not necessary, we do find that these actions
  generally help to improve the level of professionalism.

  We believe the remarks were personal opinions and
  did not represent employers' views.

  We will amend our rules, sent to each new subscriber,
  to clarify that such remarks are out of order.

  If any subscriber wishes to discuss this matter
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RE: EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000

[Grasso, Charles]

In a previous life I had a similar problem.
That is: How to add ferrites to damp emissions
that were NOT EUT generated without violating the
intent of the emissions specification.  In my case
I had numerous (~20) shielded cables that went through
a patch panel up to the measurement area. The 
shielded connectors were attached at the patch
panel. A little experimentation soon showed that
the emissions were being exacerbated by the termination
of the cables at the patch panel. 
We designed an inverted top hat that bolted to the center
of the turntable and essentially dropped the patch panel
below the TT by about 8 inches. We then added ferrites
to the cables inside the tophat - thereby preserving, to
some degree, the correct test environment. 

Maybe some sort of transition "housing" would be helpful
to aid in the isolation of the feed cables?

Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Senior Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications Corp.
Tel:  303-706-5467
Fax: 303-799-6222
Cell: 303-204-2974
Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com;  
Email Alternate: chasgra...@ieee.org
 



From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:21 AM
To: 'Cortland Richmond'; Pettit, Ghery; ieee pstc list
Subject: RE: EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000



Cortland,

Look at Figure 10 from Amendment 1 to CISPR 22:1997.  It clearly shows
clamps sitting on top of the turntable.  Article 10.4 of CISPR 22:1997
(Amendment 1) states "All cables leaving the table-top EUT for a connection
outside the test site (for example, mains cables, telephone lines,
connections to auxiliary equipment located outside the test area) shall be
fitted with ferrite clamps placed on the floor at the point where the cable
reaches the floor (see Figure 10)."  The wording is quite clear, as is
Figure 10.

If you can sell the FCC on your idea, great.  I've been discussing this with
them since 2000 and they haven't agreed to the clamps yet.  

Ghery


From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:03 PM
To: Pettit, Ghery; ieee pstc list
Subject: RE: EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000


Ghery Pettit wrote:

>>  The cables are specified to enter the clamp at the point where the
cable reaches the surface of the
turntable.  I don't believe that your suggestion meets this requirement. <<

Yes, and I thought about that; if ferrites start where the cable enters the
ground plane, that should comply exactly, and every time, whereas if a clamp
were merely laid on top of a ground plane (it seems to me) a cable could
easily be choked _before_ meeting the turntable. 

I believe the intent and the wording of CISPR22:1997 might be met by a
ferrite clamp which is neither exposed above the turntable nor too far below
it -- and that this may very well _also_ meet the FCC's requirements. The
problem is, no matter what one asks about, one is likely to be told "no."
You'd think that with MOU's and harmonization so talked up, the two sides of
the Atlantic could at least agree that it might meet somewhere in the middle
(grin).

Cortland


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Re: EN61000-3-3 + A1

[John Woodgate]

I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in <846BF526A205F8
4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A04675C0C@flbocexu05>) about 'EN61000-3-3 + A1' on Fri,
7 Feb 2003:

>The IEC version of amendment A1 says that the instrurment standard, IEC
>60868, will be withdrawn and replaced with IEC 61000-4-15 in "2003". Would
>someone please tell me what the CENELEC version of A1 has to say about this
>change in the instrument standard? In particular, did CENELEC revise the
>normitive reference to EN 60868:1993 in Annex ZA? 

As far as I can see, we haven't seen the CENELEC version yet, and the
CENELEC search engine is broken - AGAIN! The IEC version was published
in January.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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What happens when an RTTE non compliant product is placed on the market?

[John Woodgate]

I read in !emc-pstc that John Roche  wrote
(in <200302070603_mc3-1-28c4-d...@compuserve.com>) about 'What happens
when an RTTE  non compliant product is placed on  the market?' on Fri, 7
Feb 2003:
>the UK RA invoke a
>national requirement known as MPT 1570 to police the spectrum 

Don't think that MPT1570 specified *requirements* for products. AIUI, it
is intended to specify the levels of disturbance that **justify an
investigation** of a complaint of interference.  These levels are very
low.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Is EMC Test & Design magazine kaput?

[Garnier, David S (MED)]

Gentlemen,

Is EMC Test & Design magazine still being published?  I can't
find seem to find a listing for it...

Thanks

dave garnier

David Garnier
e GE Medical Systems
___
David S. Garnier
Senior Technician
PET Engineering
3000 N. Grandview Ave - M/S W-1250
Waukesha, Wi. 53188
Tel: 262.312.7246






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Apology to Agilent Technologies and Hewlett-Packard

[David Heald]

To:  Agilent Technologies and Hewlett-Packard:


  The administrators of the IEEE emc-pstc listserver
  apologize to Agilent Technologies and Hewlett-Packard
  for the derogatory remarks recently posted to this
  listserver.

  We take every effort to maintain a high level of
  professionalism in postings.  Because of our high-
  level expectations, we do not moderate the postings.
  Occasionally, some inappropriate content is posted,
  and we immediately notify our subscribers and seek
  to quench any further inappropriate content.

  We did notify our subscribers.  Unfortunately, a
  number of inappropriate remarks were posted before
  our notice was fully distributed.

  On this occasion, as in other similar occastions,
  some of our subscribers send us private responses
  supporting our action.  While we wish these actions
  were not necessary, we do find that these actions
  generally help to improve the level of professionalism.

  We believe the remarks were personal opinions and
  did not represent employers' views.

  We will amend our rules, sent to each new subscriber,
  to clarify that such remarks are out of order.

  If any subscriber wishes to discuss this matter
  further, please do so via private e-mail to the
  administrators.


  On behalf of all administrators,
  Dave Heald
  co-Administrator, IEEE emc-pstc listserver



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RE: EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000

[Pettit, Ghery]

Cortland,

Tests that I performed to aid the US come up with its vote on the FDIS that
resulted in Amendment 1 to CISPR 22:1997 showed that the clamps can
significantly reduce some emissions.  A few go up, as well.  I'm sure this
is one of the problems that the FCC has had with the clamps.

Ghery


From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com]
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:47 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery; ieee pstc list
Subject: RE: EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000


Ghery Pettit wrote:

>> shall be fitted with ferrite clamps placed on the floor <<

Well, darn. 

Unfortunately, I am not right now in a position where I can procure or look
at standards. 

However...  I am disappointed that the writers took the route they did. I
thought we were moving away from running cables across the ground plane
where we could avoid it, and here they require we do so. I am not really
surprised, but while putting a clamp on the floor is the simplest way to
add the controlled impedance and attenuation required, it is only _one_ way
to provide it. Putting clamps under the floor might actually permit more
repeatable measurements and could be just what was needed for "harmony." I
suppose someone will have to perform a series of measurement to SHOW the
Commission that clamps do not give manufacturers an edge in passing
radiated emissions testing. 

Of course, if it turns out that clamps DO help pass, we're back to two
different tests. 

Regards,

Cortland


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RE: EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000

[Cortland Richmond]

Ghery Pettit wrote:

>> shall be fitted with ferrite clamps placed on the floor <<

Well, darn. 

Unfortunately, I am not right now in a position where I can procure or look
at standards. 

However...  I am disappointed that the writers took the route they did. I
thought we were moving away from running cables across the ground plane
where we could avoid it, and here they require we do so. I am not really
surprised, but while putting a clamp on the floor is the simplest way to
add the controlled impedance and attenuation required, it is only _one_ way
to provide it. Putting clamps under the floor might actually permit more
repeatable measurements and could be just what was needed for "harmony." I
suppose someone will have to perform a series of measurement to SHOW the
Commission that clamps do not give manufacturers an edge in passing
radiated emissions testing. 

Of course, if it turns out that clamps DO help pass, we're back to two
different tests. 

Regards,

Cortland


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Thank You and Adios

[Scott Douglas]

Adios to all,

Just a short note to all of you to say thank you for the education and
enlightenment you have given me over the past months. Your comments and
answers to questions have been very helpful. And, lest I forget, the stories
most entertaining. But now my time is up, or is that my number is up, and I
will be moving on. Perhaps our trails will meet again. Good luck to you and
yours.

You can always reach me at my home email:   sdoug...@ptcnh.net



Signing off now,

Scott Douglas
Senior Compliance Engineer
Narad Networks
515 Groton Road 
Westford, MA 01886
phone: 978 589-1869
dougl...@naradnetworks.com
www.naradnetworks.com  


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RE: mouse heart monitor

[Sam Davis]

Thanks to all who responded.  All input was helpful.

Thanks,
Sam


From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Sam Davis
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:01 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: mouse heart monitor



All,
I'm trying to work up a quote for testing a product which monitors various
heart functions of living laboratory mice.  Would this fall into the Medical
Directive under 60601, or the LVD, under 61010?  I'm just looking at the
safety aspects, not EMC.

The question comes up because the definition of "patient" in 601 (old
version at least) includes "human or animal".  This is not veterinary
equipment (save the mouse's life), but laboratory equipment (use the mouse's
life to learn how to save human's lives).

Thanks,
Sam



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RE: EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000

[Pettit, Ghery]

Cortland,

Look at Figure 10 from Amendment 1 to CISPR 22:1997.  It clearly shows
clamps sitting on top of the turntable.  Article 10.4 of CISPR 22:1997
(Amendment 1) states "All cables leaving the table-top EUT for a connection
outside the test site (for example, mains cables, telephone lines,
connections to auxiliary equipment located outside the test area) shall be
fitted with ferrite clamps placed on the floor at the point where the cable
reaches the floor (see Figure 10)."  The wording is quite clear, as is
Figure 10.

If you can sell the FCC on your idea, great.  I've been discussing this with
them since 2000 and they haven't agreed to the clamps yet.  

Ghery


From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:72146@compuserve.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:03 PM
To: Pettit, Ghery; ieee pstc list
Subject: RE: EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000


Ghery Pettit wrote:

>>  The cables are specified to enter the clamp at the point where the
cable reaches the surface of the
turntable.  I don't believe that your suggestion meets this requirement. <<

Yes, and I thought about that; if ferrites start where the cable enters the
ground plane, that should comply exactly, and every time, whereas if a
clamp were merely laid on top of a ground plane (it seems to me) a cable
could easily be choked _before_ meeting the turntable. 

I believe the intent and the wording of CISPR22:1997 might be met by a
ferrite clamp which is neither exposed above the turntable nor too far
below it -- and that this may very well _also_ meet the FCC's requirements.
The problem is, no matter what one asks about, one is likely to be told
"no." You'd think that with MOU's and harmonization so talked up, the two
sides of the Atlantic could at least agree that it might meet somewhere in
the middle (grin).

Cortland


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EN61000-3-3 + A1

[richwo...@tycoint.com]

The IEC version of amendment A1 says that the instrurment standard, IEC
60868, will be withdrawn and replaced with IEC 61000-4-15 in "2003". Would
someone please tell me what the CENELEC version of A1 has to say about this
change in the instrument standard? In particular, did CENELEC revise the
normitive reference to EN 60868:1993 in Annex ZA? 

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International



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RE: 230V Transition for EU?

[Crabb, John]

Cenelec document HD 472 S1, 1989, nominal voltages for low voltage public
electricity supply systems
is the document that states for the "first step", namely to 230V +10% -6%,
"Note: The dead-line
for the completion of the first step is envisaged for 1995".

It also states that "The transition period (to +/- 10%) should be as short
as possible and
should not exceed the year 2003".

However, at the request of the German National Committee, Cenelec BT
resolved to extend the 
transition period, and a Corrigendum to HD 472 S1, dated February 2002,
changes the above
sentence to read "The transition period should be as short as possible and
should not exceed the year 2008".

My electricty supply company advised me of the change to a declared nominal
supply voltage of
230V +10% -6%, from January 1995.

Regards,
John Crabb,  (Product Safety) , 
NCR  Financial Solutions Group Ltd.,  Discovery Centre, 
3 Fulton Road, Dundee, Scotland, DD2 4SW
E-Mail :john.cr...@scotland.ncr.com
Tel: +44 (0)1382-592289  (direct ). Fax +44 (0)1382-622243.   



From: John Barnes [mailto:jrbar...@iglou.com] 
Sent: 01 February 2003 03:48
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: 230V Transition for EU?



EMC-PSTC'ers,
Some of my references on international primary power say that the European
Union was to transition to 230V power in two phases:
*  On 1 JAN 1995 the United Kindon and other countries using 240VAC 
   were supposed to declare that their power was now 230VAC +10% -6%, 
   while the countries using 220VAC would declare that their power 
   was now 230VAC +6% -10%.
*  On 1 JAN 2003 all the countries in the European Union would declare
   that their power was now 230VAC +10% -10%.

Did that actually happen?  Can you point me to any official documents to
that effect, maybe in the Official Journal of the European Communities (OJ)?


Thanks!
John Barnes KS4GL, PE, NCE, ESDC Eng, SM IEEE
dBi Corporation
http://www.dbicorporation.com/


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New Petition - URGENT

[Jim Bacher]

Due to a request by IEEE, a different form has been substituted on the web 
site for downloading this morning (Feb. 07, 2003). If you have not done so,
please 
download, sign and forward it to Daniece Carpenter, 9709 Quilberry Drive,
Austin, 
TX 78729, or fax it to 1-512-728-5278 or e-mail daniece_carpen...@dell.com.
If you 
have already signed the petition, we request that you do so again for
administrative 
reasons.

For those who are taking the time to help establish the IEEE Product Safety 
Society (PSS) with this petition, we thank you.

IEEE PSS Steering Committee


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RE: EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000

[richwo...@tycoint.com]

I think you would be doing the community a favor by posting the information
right here.

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International



From: Gordon,Ian [mailto:ian.gor...@edwards.boc.com]
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:09 AM
To: 'IEEE EMC-PSTC GROUP'
Subject: EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000



All
I have details of a commercially available CMAD (Common Mode Absorbing
Device) clamp if anyone wants them. 
I don't represent the manufacturer and thus this is not intended to be an
advertisement, merely technical information.
Please contact me if you would like the details.

Would it be appropriate to post the details on the brand new website?

Ian Gordon

_
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed
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RE: Brazil

[SERGIO LUIZ DA ROCHA LOURES]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Hi Tom, 

There is one more option to use a foreign laboratory to test IT products. 
- If the cost of the test or the time schedule are prohibitive, you can use
your own laboratory. 

But in all cases you must use an OCD. A list of theses OCDs can be found at 

http://www.anatel.gov.br/index.asp?link=/certificacao/ocd.htm?Cod=1576

Other kind of products like toys and wires are tested by INMETRO. See at 

http://www.inmetro.gov.br/qualidade/prodCompulsorios.asp a list of products
that need certification.

Regards. 

Sérgio L. Rocha Loures 
IC SC QE L - Laboratório de qualificação
Quality and Engineering - Supply Chain 
SIEMENS 
Tel: +55 41 341-5898 
Fax: +55 41 341-5058 
sergioro...@siemens.com.br 
Minha opinião e não necessariamente a do meu empregador. 




 -Original Message- 
From:   owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [ 

mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]  On Behalf Of Alejandro Torrecilla
Torregrosa

Sent:   sexta-feira, 7 de fevereiro de 2003 06:51 
To: EMC-PSTC1; Tom Smith 
Subject:RE: Brazil 

Hi Tom, 

if we talk about radio and telecommunication devices, the regulatory 
body in
Brazil is ANATEL. ANATEL established a new approval procedure around 2,5 years
ago whereby:

1.- New requirements of EMC and Safety were included 
2.- Requirements for the use of testing labs were defined in a prioritized
list 

Regarding point 1, the regulations defined for EMC and Safety 
(Resoluçao 237
and 238) established technical requirements following international standards
BUT with some deviations. This means that a normal test report against
international standards is not enough.

But then you can think: OK, I will additionally perform the testing for 
these
deviations in my local lab in Canada. Let's check now point 2.

Regarding point 2, the priority list of labs obligues (in summary) to 
the use
of: laboratories accredited by INMETRO as a first option (no matter if it is
local or foreign), Brazilian laboratories evaluated by the Brazilian
Certification Bodies (OCDs) as a second option and finally accredited labs
outside Brazil. This means that re-use of test reports outside Brazil is only
possible if:

- There are no testing facilities in Brazil (i.e. SAR and testing for 
76-77
GHz radar doppler devices) 
- If the test lab is accredited by INMETRO 
However, when MRAs will be signed between Brazil and other countries, the use
of foreing test reports will be possible. 

If anyone had a different experience that would like to share in the 
group,
it will be welcome! 

Regards, 

Alejandro 

-- 
De: Tom Smith[SMTP:tom.sm...@sanmina-sci.com] 
Responder a:Tom Smith 
Enviado el: viernes 7 de febrero de 2003 4:27 
Para:   emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
Asunto: Brazil 


I am aware that Brazil has joined the IECEE-CB scheme and therefore 
should 
now accept CB reports for safety. 

Does anyone have any additional information regarding options or the 
process 
which may be used for acceptance of telecom, safety, and EMC reports which 
have been produced at labs outside of Brazil? 

Regards, 
Tom Smith 
Manager, Homologation and Safety 
Sanmina-SCI Canada ULC 


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Title: RE: Brazil






Hi Tom,


There is one more option to use a foreign laboratory to test IT products.

- If the cost of the test or the time schedule are prohibitive, you can use your own laboratory.


But in all cases you must use an OCD. A list of theses OCDs can be found at http://www.anatel.gov.br/index.asp?link=/certificacao/ocd.htm?Cod=1576

Other kind of products like toys and wires are tested by INMETRO. See at http://www.inmetro.gov.br/qualidade/prodCompulsorios.asp a list of products that need certification.

Regards.


Sérgio L. Rocha Lou

What happens when an RTTE non compliant product is placed on the market?

[John Roche]

Hi All

In response to Llan's mail:

So far there has been little activity in the area of Market Surveillance
for the R&TTE Directive (certainly here in the UK) - although we have had
to act  for one client. In certain other Member States there has been a lot
more activity especially in Germany and to a certain extent Sweden. This
situation is about to change - see remarks at the end of this mail.

A lot of the time actions get taken under the EMC-D and LVD especially for
telecom terminal equipment where there are no longer any mandatory
requirements for PSTN Access in Europe, (leaving only Essential
Requirements for Safety & EMC). So a breach of the R&TTE Directive may not
show up as such but still gets dealt with.

In the UK the Surveillance Authority for TTE is the Trading Standards
Authority who are over burdoned with other work and have had little time to
pro-actively police the market, but are supposed to act on complaints. In
certain parts of the country there have been some interesting and high
profile court cases ( I presume designed to make an example of the bad
boys). For Radio equipment the UK Surveillance Authority is the RA - an
offshoot of the DTI, who are proactive and will deal very efficiently with
breaches of the protection requirements of the R&TTE Directive and will act
swiftly to deal with complaints.

In other EU Member States radio is policed by the national S M A (Spectrum
Management Authority).  I understand from our Associates abroad that their
SMAs are equally efficient at reacting to problems. I recently had to deal
with ComReg in Eire (Southern Ireland) and found them to be very "on the
ball" when it came to protection and management of the spectrum. They were
also extremely helpful in advising on local issues.

At present enforcement of the R&TTE Directive is a national issue for
individual Member States, especially where the Radio Spectrum is concerned.
National standards still prevail and (as an example) the UK RA invoke a
national requirement known as MPT 1570 to police the spectrum and have
powers under various (and some quite old) Acts of Parliament to enable them
to proceed against miscreants!

If a non compliant product is placed on the market and discovered by the
Surveillance Authorities the Technical Dossier will be requested and
checked. If serious breaches of the requirements of the R&TTE Directive are
found to have taken place action is taken to remove the product from the
market in all EU Member States. This has happened on a number of occasions.

The EU are now developing Enforcement Standards that will enable all Member
States to harmonise their requirements, although I am told that some do not
want to give up their existing tougher standards. The view is that now that
the R&TTE Directive has had time to bed down the time has come to ensure
that enforcement is uniform, harmonised and happens! So expect a lot more
to be happening in the future.

Best regards,

John Roche

Patton & Associates (UK) Ltd.
FINDON, West Sussex.
BN14 0UH.  UK GB.

INTERNET: ro...@patton-assoc.com
Web Page: http//www.patton-assoc.com

Telecommunications Consulting, Design and Type Approval/Certification 
for Europe, North America and the Pacific Rim

<<
> Hi All
> 
> Does anyone know the format and the status of the surveillance bodies
which
> were supposed to be places by the member states and by the EU for
> enforcement of the RTTE directive.
> 
> What happens when an RTTE  non compliant product is placed on the market?
> Does anyone care?
> (For example an RTTE product which is declared under the LVD and the EMC
> only. Or worse, when a product is being declared to comply with the RTTE
> directive without compliance with the RTTE directive requirements of EMC,
> safety, telecom and the construction file) 
> 
> Ilan
> 
> --
> Ilan Cohen
> Technical Director, Safety & Telecom Divisions
> I.T.L (PRODUCT TESTING) Ltd.
> 26 Hacharoshet St, POB 211, Or Yehuda, Israel.
> Tel 972-3-5339022, Fax 972-3-5339019
> ico...@itl.co.il, website: http://www.itl.co.il 
> 



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FW: Dummy lamp for EN55015 testing.

[Derek Leung]

 
Who can tell me where I can buy the dummy lamps shown in EN55015, thanks.

RE: Brazil

[Alejandro Torrecilla Torregrosa]

Hi Tom,

if we talk about radio and telecommunication devices, the regulatory body in
Brazil is ANATEL. ANATEL established a new approval procedure around 2,5 years
ago whereby:
1.- New requirements of EMC and Safety were included
2.- Requirements for the use of testing labs were defined in a prioritized list

Regarding point 1, the regulations defined for EMC and Safety (Resoluçao 237
and 238) established technical requirements following international standards
BUT with some deviations. This means that a normal test report against
international standards is not enough.

But then you can think: OK, I will additionally perform the testing for these
deviations in my local lab in Canada. Let's check now point 2.

Regarding point 2, the priority list of labs obligues (in summary) to the use
of: laboratories accredited by INMETRO as a first option (no matter if it is
local or foreign), Brazilian laboratories evaluated by the Brazilian
Certification Bodies (OCDs) as a second option and finally accredited labs
outside Brazil. This means that re-use of test reports outside Brazil is only
possible if:
- There are no testing facilities in Brazil (i.e. SAR and testing for 76-77
GHz radar doppler devices)
- If the test lab is accredited by INMETRO
However, when MRAs will be signed between Brazil and other countries, the use
of foreing test reports will be possible.

If anyone had a different experience that would like to share in the group, it
will be welcome!

Regards,

Alejandro

>--
>De:Tom Smith[SMTP:tom.sm...@sanmina-sci.com]
>Responder a:   Tom Smith
>Enviado el:viernes 7 de febrero de 2003 4:27
>Para:  emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>Asunto:Brazil
>
>
>I am aware that Brazil has joined the IECEE-CB scheme and therefore should
>now accept CB reports for safety.
>
>Does anyone have any additional information regarding options or the process
>which may be used for acceptance of telecom, safety, and EMC reports which
>have been produced at labs outside of Brazil?
>
>Regards,
>Tom Smith
>Manager, Homologation and Safety
>Sanmina-SCI Canada ULC
>
>
>---
>This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
>Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
>Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
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>
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>http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
>

EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000

[Gordon,Ian]

All
I have details of a commercially available CMAD (Common Mode Absorbing
Device) clamp if anyone wants them. 
I don't represent the manufacturer and thus this is not intended to be an
advertisement, merely technical information.
Please contact me if you would like the details.

Would it be appropriate to post the details on the brand new website?

Ian Gordon

_
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed
Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit
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RE: EN60950-1 - Time Scale??

[Kevin Richardson]

Peter,
 
For Australia & New Zealand 
AS/NZS 60950-1 has completed the public comment period.  There a couple of
comments which need to be resolved but hopefully these will not hold it up too
much.
As such, with any luck it should be published within a few months.
 

Best regards, 
Kevin Richardson 

Stanimore Pty Limited 
Compliance Advice & Solutions for Technology 
(Legislation/Regulations/Standards/Australian Agent Services) 
Ph:   02-4329-4070   (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070) 
Fax:  02-4328-5639   (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639) 
Mobile:  04-1224-1620   (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620) 
Email:kevin.richard...@ieee.org 

This material (this message and the information contained in all attachments
to this message) is confidential and/or privileged information and is intended
only for the addressee/s named above. Any unauthorised dissemination, copying,
use of or reliance upon this material by persons or entities other than the
addressee/s named above is prohibited. If you receive this material in error,
please notify Stanimore Pty Limited and destroy all copies (electronic and
hardcopy) of this message and all attachments immediately.


From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of peter merguerian
Sent: Friday, 7 February 2003 5:09 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: EN60950-1 - Time Scale??



Group,

EN60950-1 appears in the OJ and there is a CB TRF issued by Fimko to this
standard. 

Is it wise to obtain a CB Test Report and Certificate to this standard when
most countries, including the US and Canada, have not adopted their versions
of the standard?

What is going on around the world to adopt the IEC 60950-1 standard?

 

Peter




  _  

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RE: Ethernet Creepage and Clearance

[Robert Johnson]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
IEC 62102 (Table B.1) declares that for safety purposes Ethernet 10base5 is
considered a TNV-1 circuit. Other Ethernet circuits are considered SELV. The
internal circuits they connect to in your case are likely to be SELV
(although not necessarily, for example they could be TNV3, ELV, or even
hazardous). The isolation needed is described in IEC 60950 (3rd or 4th ed)
Figure 2F and Table 2G.

The isolation needed for functional reasons is derived from the IEEE specs
which have been discussed in other responses. 

Bob Johnson
ITE Safety
 


From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Alex McNeil
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:56 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Ethernet Creepage and Clearance


Hi Forum,
Are there any ethernet and PCB safety requirements, ie are there rules like
those for the modem side of things (isolation in particular) or is the
transformer sufficient?

Kind Regards
Alex McNeil
Principal Engineer
Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375
Fax:+44 (0)131 479 8321
email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com



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Title: RE: Ethernet Creepage and Clearance






IEC 62102 (Table B.1) declares that for safety purposes Ethernet 10base5 is

considered a TNV-1 circuit. Other Ethernet circuits are considered SELV. The

internal circuits they connect to in your case are likely to be SELV

(although not necessarily, for example they could be TNV3, ELV, or even

hazardous). The isolation needed is described in IEC 60950 (3rd or 4th ed)

Figure 2F and Table 2G.


The isolation needed for functional reasons is derived from the IEEE specs

which have been discussed in other responses. 


Bob Johnson

ITE Safety

 


-Original Message-

From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org

[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Alex McNeil

Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:56 AM

To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org

Subject: Ethernet Creepage and Clearance



Hi Forum,

Are there any ethernet and PCB safety requirements, ie are there rules like

those for the modem side of things (isolation in particular) or is the

transformer sufficient?


Kind Regards

Alex McNeil

Principal Engineer

Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375

Fax:+44 (0)131 479 8321

email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com



---

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<>

RE: EN 55022:1998 plus A1:2000

[Cortland Richmond]

Ghery Pettit wrote:

>>  The cables are specified to enter the clamp at the point where the
cable reaches the surface of the
turntable.  I don't believe that your suggestion meets this requirement. <<

Yes, and I thought about that; if ferrites start where the cable enters the
ground plane, that should comply exactly, and every time, whereas if a
clamp were merely laid on top of a ground plane (it seems to me) a cable
could easily be choked _before_ meeting the turntable. 

I believe the intent and the wording of CISPR22:1997 might be met by a
ferrite clamp which is neither exposed above the turntable nor too far
below it -- and that this may very well _also_ meet the FCC's requirements.
The problem is, no matter what one asks about, one is likely to be told
"no." You'd think that with MOU's and harmonization so talked up, the two
sides of the Atlantic could at least agree that it might meet somewhere in
the middle (grin).

Cortland


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Re: Maintaining conductivity of freshly machined aluminum

[Ken Javor]

I'm going to add some fuel to this fire.  I built a screen room in the 
garage of my old home in Huntsville, Alabama and kept it for two years, over
which time its performance did not noticeably degrade.  The screen material
was trade-named Britecoat aluminum, or something close to that, which I
bought retail at a home improvement center.  It was window screen material
made of aluminum with some kind of treatment to keep it from turning grey in
the weather.  I bought four foot wide rolls, and where one roll came up
against another I overlapped them and turned them over each other, a couple
times, then I pounded roofing nails through the wrap into the 2x4 frame to
squeeze the wrap.  I used no other treatment.

Incidentally, Huntsville has a very humid climate, but no salt air.  My
screen room was protected from direct weather, but exposed year round to
heat and cold and humidity.


>From: John Woodgate 
>To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>Subject: Re: Maintaining conductivity of freshly machined aluminum
>Date: Thu, Feb 6, 2003, 5:20 PM
>

>
> I read in !emc-pstc that Barker, Neil 
> wrote (in <4f826f960057d4118ec3009027e2453808a52...@whl17.e2v.uk>) about
> 'Maintaining conductivity of freshly machined aluminum' on Thu, 6 Feb
> 2003:
>>Aluminium oxidises extremely rapidly in normal atmospheric conditions.
>
> Indeed. See what happens when mercury removes the oxide film.
>
>>You really cannot rely on untreated aluminium to aluminium interfaces
>>unless they are closely mated immediately
>
> The oxide film forms in milliseconds. You would have to be VERY quick.
>
>>after machining or abrasive
>>cleaning and are subsequently protected from the atmosphere.
>
> If that were entirely true, aluminium exposed to air would appear to be
> a non-conductor, and it doesn't. The oxide film is only about 1 molecule
> thick, and the measured conductivity with it present is little different
> from that of aluminium machined in a vacuum or under argon.
>
> I'd like to see some results of conductivity testing two blocks bolted
> together with no surface treatment and two similar blocks bolted
> together with the surface treatment of your choice. The only stipulation
> is that the atmosphere is not abnormally corrosive.
> --
> Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
> Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
> http://www.isce.org.uk
> PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
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> 


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Brazil

[Tom Smith]

I am aware that Brazil has joined the IECEE-CB scheme and therefore should
now accept CB reports for safety.

Does anyone have any additional information regarding options or the process
which may be used for acceptance of telecom, safety, and EMC reports which
have been produced at labs outside of Brazil?

Regards,
Tom Smith
Manager, Homologation and Safety
Sanmina-SCI Canada ULC



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RE: Maintaining conductivity of freshly machined aluminum

[Robert Johnson]

There is a product by Ideal called Noalox specifically for the application
of preventing deterioration of aluminum connections, primarily for the
electrical trades. It is an anti-oxidant joint compound for use on
connectors and aluminum wire, a grey paste which does not appear to dry out.
It is applied first to wires and then abraded with brush or emery cloth to
remove oxide, followed by assembly.
I assume the same process would work with you; add the compound, machine the
anodizing through it, assemble the hardware and wipe away the excess.
I got mine at Home Depot.

Bob Johnson
ITE Safety
 


From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott Lacey
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:08 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Maintaining conductivity of freshly machined aluminum


To the group,

Does anyone know of any conductive coating, preferably spray-on, 
that could be used on mating aluminum chassis surfaces? We 
manufacture (in very low volume) test equipment that is housed in a 
commercially manufactured anodized aluminum enclosure. Our 
machine shop mills the anodizing from mating surfaces and adds 
additional screw holes to improve bonding. The concern is that the 
surfaces will not remain conductive over time.

Conventional dip alodyne is out of the question. The process would 
mar the black anodized finish on the exposed portions. We are 
considering using a wipe-on alodyne that Dupont sells to the 
autobody trade but have concerns as to its suitability for this 
application.

The ideal would be a spray-on conductive coating that we could 
apply to the exposed aluminum after masking the anodized parts. 
We would abrade the surfaces with fine Scotch Brite just pryor to 
painting. Does anyone know of such a product?

Scott Lacey


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