Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message 
, 
dated Wed, 27 Mar 2013, Binayak Marahatta 
 writes:



I believe that the value of Durability of marking is very high.


When I worked for IT&T in Britain, we used the definitive solution - 
second surface printing (printing in reverse on the back of the sheet) 
on acetate sheet. The solvent can't even get at the printing. Now you 
just have to make sure you don't test with something that will dissolve 
the acetate or the adhesive. The latter is more vulnerable - that's what 
the test liquid needs to have low aromatic content.


'Aromatic' doesn't mean 'smelly', it means that the molecule of a 
compound has one or more 'unsaturated' (strictly, 'conjugated' - the 
double bonds are not localised) planar carbon rings. Benzene is the 
usual example.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Binayak Marahatta]

Hello all,

I believe that the value of Durability of marking is very high. You don't 
want to test the product using wrong type of solvent / chemical. Based on 
UL / IEC 60601 , 2nd or 3rd edition (medical standard) or UL/ IEC 61010-1 
2nd or 3 edition (Control and Laboratory equipment ) , UL 60950, 2nd 
edition, all required different ways of testing Durability of marking test 
for your safe label into your product.You don't want your product label to 
be damaged easily once you released the product in the market.Even if you 
have the great product, it does not look good if you cann't see the label 
easily. So, for these reason the value of your product label is very high 
for any product you made. For my product, i wanted to use right chemical 
per  UL/IEC standard suggested even if cost is high at front. 
I had done many Durability of marking test but most of them failed using 
either Isopropyl alcohol or n- Hexane after rubbing for certain time 
required by the standard , some of the test i have seen ink damaged 
completely just by wet (using  water ) cotton rubbing into label or some 
product's label come off easily  because of  applied chemical solution to 
the  product ( marking not even visible after the test). So, you wanted to 
use right material with right type of ink on your product's label to pass 
the test successfully.

I think the following 49 countries are members the CB Scheme, correct me 
if i am wrong.
Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belarus, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, 
Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Finland, Germany, Greece, 
Hungary, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kenya, Korea, 
Malaysia, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, 
Romania, Russian Federation, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South 
Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Turkey, Ukraine, United Arab 
Emirates, United Kingdom, Uruguay and USA

Product safety and its importance for all people and industries "Consumer 
product incidents cost the nation more than $900 billion annually"

According to Consumer product safety commission "CPSC is charged 
with protecting the public from unreasonable risks of injury or death 
associated with the use of the thousands of consumer products under the 
agency's jurisdiction. Deaths, injuries and property damage from 
consumer productincidents cost the nation more than $900 
billion annually. CPSC is committed to protecting consumers and families 
from products that pose a fire, electrical, chemical or mechanical hazard. 
CPSC's work to ensure the safety of consumer products - such as 
toys, cribs, power tools, cigarette lightersand household 
chemicals - contributed to a decline in the rate of deaths and injuries 
associated with consumer products over the  past 30 years.Federal law 
bars any person from selling products subject to a publicly-announced 
voluntary recall by a manufacturer or a mandatory recall ordered by the  
Commission."
See the website below for more detail if you are interested to 
know more.






http://www.cpsc.gov/en/


Thank you.
Best regards,

Binayak Marahatta
Electrical Standards Conformity Engineer

KEB AMERICA, INC.
5100 Valley Industrial Blvd. South
USA - Shakopee, MN 55379
United States 
www.kebamerica.com
Email: 
binayak.marahatta @kebamerica.com
--
KEB products are Inverter, Converter, Servo,Frequency 
generator,Communication, EMC, Magnet Technology, Motor and Gears, Elevator 
Technology etc. 
--
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn. "
-Benjamin Franklin (Founding Father)

This e-mail, and any attachment to it, contains confidential information 
that may be legally privileged and which is intended only for the 
addressee(s) named above. Any use by an unintended recipient is strictly 
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the 
sender and delete it from your system.




From:   Pete Perkins 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Date:   03/26/2013 11:29 PM
Subject:Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent



David et al,

 Lot's of discussion around a topic that is hardly 
mainstream in most
product certifications. 

 The frustrating part is that the 950 com

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message 
<3d061464a0c0bb438a8712afce9013831d92e...@tor1exc01.americas.tsp.ad>, 
dated Wed, 27 Mar 2013, "Bolintineanu, Constantin" 
 writes:


I would like to be more specific: I did not consider that Anthony 
specified the WHITE bottles.


Those (in my opinion) are NOT n-hexane; Those (in my opinion) are 
mislabelled; The seller affixed a number [IF I was able to read it 
properly CAN number (?)], and IF I will use that CAN number as a CAS 
number for identification, 67-56-1 I will find that in that bottle 
could be:


The bottle labels are irrelevant; the product descriptions are of 
n-hexane, which is correct.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message 
<3d061464a0c0bb438a8712afce9013831d92e...@tor1exc01.americas.tsp.ad>, 
dated Wed, 27 Mar 2013, "Bolintineanu, Constantin" 
 writes:


John you are right! (my opinion only!). Those are not the required 
substances.


The bottles aren't; they are just pictures of the type of bottle, but 
the product descriptions describe the right product, n-hexane.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Bolintineanu, Constantin]

Thank you Anthony. You are 100% right with everything. I apologize. I have no 
further comments regarding your ebay posting.

Sincerely,

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng  / iNARTE Certified Product Safety Engineer /  
Tyco Security Products
Tel: +1 905 760 3000  /  2568 
3301 Langstaff Road  / Concord, Ontario, L4K 4L2 / Canada
cbolintine...@tycoint.com  /   www.tycosecurityproducts.com



Access Control, Video, Location-Based Tracking and Intrusion. UNIFIED.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
privileged information or information otherwise protected by law. Any 
unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are 
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and 
destroy all copies of the original message. Any applicable rights to privilege 
have not been waived. 

From: Anthony Thomson [mailto:ton...@europe.com] 
Sent: March-27-13 8:42 AM
To: Bolintineanu, Constantin; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

Constantine,
 
You should read the original post... "Is there a product I can buy at the 
hardware store that is roughly equivalent to the hexane specified in durability 
test".
 
Then you should read the eBay listing and not just look at the pictures. The 
seller is quite clear that the picture shows an e x a m p l e  (Methyl Alcohol) 
of how the n-hexanne will be packaged. The listing then cites the CAS No. of 
the n-hexane which will be supplied which is indeed 110-54-3.
 
As you say, you have to be careful when it comes to precision and accuracy ;-)
 
Regards,
T
 
- Original Message -
From: Bolintineanu, Constantin
Sent: 03/27/13 11:38 AM
To: Anthony Thomson, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent
 
Anthony, 



IF we are following the CAS Number, then, this ebay product  is definitely not 
the one specified within the 60950-1 Standard. 



As per cas.org, a CAS Nr: 



- Is a unique numeric identifier 

- Designates only one substance 

- Has no chemical significance 

- Is a link to a wealth of information about a specific chemical substance 



60950 specifies clearly CAS Nr. 110-54-3; According to the required and 
specified spec, it is not sufficient to use any n-hexane. 

IF we would like to test with any n-hexane then we do not need any Standard, 
and as Rich specified, there will be no precision nor accuracy involved 
regarding this test. Cheap stuff, similar results: inconclusive. 



Sincerely, 



Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng  / iNARTE Certified Product Safety Engineer /  
Tyco Security Products 

Tel: +1 905 760 3000  /  2568 

3301 Langstaff Road  / Concord, Ontario, L4K 4L2 / Canada 







From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Thomson 

Sent: March-27-13 5:27 AM 

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 

Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent 



eBay - http://www.ebay.com/sch/n-hexane 

T 

  

- Original Message - 

From: Gelfand, David 

Sent: 03/26/13 06:32 PM 

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 

Subject: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent 

  

Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly equivalent 
to the hexane specified in durability test: 



" The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane 
having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value of 
29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of 
approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l." 



Thanks in advance. 



David 

Kontron Canada Inc. 



- 

 

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc. 

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 

Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html 

List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators: 

Scott Douglas  

Mike Cantwell  

For policy questions, send mail to: 

Jim Bacher  

David Heald 
 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can 

[PSES] Fw: RE: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Anthony Thomson]

I should add that the the eBay item I refer to is 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121054199276 
- Original Message -
From: Anthony Thomson
Sent: 03/27/13 12:41 PM
To: Bolintineanu, Constantin, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

Constantine,
You should read the original post... "Is there a product I can buy at the 
hardware store that is roughly equivalent to the hexane specified in durability 
test".
Then you should read the eBay listing and not just look at the pictures. The 
seller is quite clear that the picture shows an e x a m p l e (Methyl Alcohol) 
of how the n-hexanne will be packaged. The listing then cites the CAS No. of 
the n-hexane which will be supplied which is indeed 110-54-3.
As you say, you have to be careful when it comes to precision and accuracy ;-)
Regards,
T
- Original Message -
From: Bolintineanu, Constantin
Sent: 03/27/13 11:38 AM
To: Anthony Thomson, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

Anthony, IF we are following the CAS Number, then, this ebay product is 
definitely not the one specified within the 60950-1 Standard. As per cas.org, a 
CAS Nr: - Is a unique numeric identifier - Designates only one substance - Has 
no chemical significance - Is a link to a wealth of information about a 
specific chemical substance 60950 specifies clearly CAS Nr. 110-54-3; According 
to the required and specified spec, it is not sufficient to use any n-hexane. 
IF we would like to test with any n-hexane then we do not need any Standard, 
and as Rich specified, there will be no precision nor accuracy involved 
regarding this test. Cheap stuff, similar results: inconclusive. Sincerely, 
Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng / iNARTE Certified Product Safety Engineer / Tyco 
Security Products Tel: +1 905 760 3000 / 2568 3301 Langstaff Road / Concord, 
Ontario, L4K 4L2 / Canada From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On 
Behalf Of Anthony Thomson Sent: March-27-13 5:27 AM To: EMC-PSTC@L!
 ISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent eBay - 
http://www.ebay.com/sch/n-hexane T - Original Message - From: Gelfand, 
David Sent: 03/26/13 06:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] 
60950-1 durability test solvent Is there a product I can buy at the hardware 
store that is roughly equivalent to the hexane specified in durability test: " 
The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane having 
a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value of 29, an 
initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of approximately 69 
°C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l." Thanks in advance. 
David Kontron Canada Inc. - 
 This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to  All 
emc-pstc postings are arc!
 hived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: 
http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list 
administrators: Scott Douglas  Mike Cantwell 
 For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher 
 David Heald 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Bolintineanu, Constantin]

John you are right! (my opinion only!). Those are not the required substances.
Those 2 white bottles are not the right stuff even if the seller wants to 
make-up the labels, misleading  by "flagging" the correct CAS number.
It is e-bay where we may find lots of things which are useful for others.

Sincerely,

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng  / iNARTE Certified Product Safety Engineer /  
Tyco Security Products
Tel: +1 905 760 3000  /  2568 
3301 Langstaff Road  / Concord, Ontario, L4K 4L2 / Canada
cbolintine...@tycoint.com  /   www.tycosecurityproducts.com



Access Control, Video, Location-Based Tracking and Intrusion. UNIFIED.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
privileged information or information otherwise protected by law. Any 
unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are 
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and 
destroy all copies of the original message. Any applicable rights to privilege 
have not been waived. 


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate
Sent: March-27-13 8:26 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

In message
<3d061464a0c0bb438a8712afce9013831d92e...@tor1exc01.americas.tsp.ad>,
dated Wed, 27 Mar 2013, "Bolintineanu, Constantin" 
 writes:

>The one that I was able to read was 79-01-6

On one of the bottles? I already pointed out that two of them are labelled 
'methyl alcohol'; the pictures are just to show the style of product.

I suppose you can read CAS 709-01-06 on the bottle with a blurred label. 
That substance is trichlorethene ('trichlorethylene'), not n-hexane at all.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like 
DNA found in chicken and turkey meals John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and 
Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Anthony Thomson]

Constantine,
You should read the original post... "Is there a product I can buy at the 
hardware store that is roughly equivalent to the hexane specified in durability 
test".
Then you should read the eBay listing and not just look at the pictures. The 
seller is quite clear that the picture shows an e x a m p l e (Methyl Alcohol) 
of how the n-hexanne will be packaged. The listing then cites the CAS No. of 
the n-hexane which will be supplied which is indeed 110-54-3.
As you say, you have to be careful when it comes to precision and accuracy ;-)
Regards,
T
- Original Message -
From: Bolintineanu, Constantin
Sent: 03/27/13 11:38 AM
To: Anthony Thomson, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

Anthony, IF we are following the CAS Number, then, this ebay product is 
definitely not the one specified within the 60950-1 Standard. As per cas.org, a 
CAS Nr: - Is a unique numeric identifier - Designates only one substance - Has 
no chemical significance - Is a link to a wealth of information about a 
specific chemical substance 60950 specifies clearly CAS Nr. 110-54-3; According 
to the required and specified spec, it is not sufficient to use any n-hexane. 
IF we would like to test with any n-hexane then we do not need any Standard, 
and as Rich specified, there will be no precision nor accuracy involved 
regarding this test. Cheap stuff, similar results: inconclusive. Sincerely, 
Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng / iNARTE Certified Product Safety Engineer / Tyco 
Security Products Tel: +1 905 760 3000 / 2568 3301 Langstaff Road / Concord, 
Ontario, L4K 4L2 / Canada From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On 
Behalf Of Anthony Thomson Sent: March-27-13 5:27 AM To: EMC-PSTC@L!
 ISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent eBay - 
http://www.ebay.com/sch/n-hexane T - Original Message - From: Gelfand, 
David Sent: 03/26/13 06:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] 
60950-1 durability test solvent Is there a product I can buy at the hardware 
store that is roughly equivalent to the hexane specified in durability test: " 
The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane having 
a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value of 29, an 
initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of approximately 69 
°C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l." Thanks in advance. 
David Kontron Canada Inc. - 
 This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to  All 
emc-pstc postings are arc!
 hived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: 
http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list 
administrators: Scott Douglas  Mike Cantwell 
 For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher 
 David Heald 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Bolintineanu, Constantin]

I would like to be more specific: I did not consider that Anthony specified the 
WHITE bottles.

Those (in my opinion) are NOT n-hexane; Those (in my opinion) are mislabelled; 
The seller affixed a number [IF I was able to read it properly CAN number (?)], 
and IF I will use that CAN number as a CAS number for identification, 67-56-1 I 
will find that in that bottle could be:

CAS Registry Number: 67-56-1

CA Index Name: Methanol
--
Synonyms:
*Bieleski's solution
*Carbinol
*metanol
*Methanol
*Methanol cluster
*Methyl alcohol
*Methyl hydroxide
*Methylol
*Monohydroxymethane
*NSC 85232
*Solutions, Bieleski's
*UN 1230
*UN 1230
*WOOD ALCOHOL

The seller specifies that in those WHITE (?) bottles is a chemical with CAS 
110-54-3...I will never buy that stuff...

Is this Methanol considered acceptable for testing as per the Clause 1.7.11 of 
60950-1 series of Standards? And if the answer is YES, 
Does it lead to the same results when the test is performed with the CAS No 
110-54-3 ?


I would like to find any documented opinion which will help me to better 
understand WHY in time some labels are offering to the end-user frustrations 
when they want to identify parts for a remote control, etc. 


Sincerely,

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng  / iNARTE Certified Product Safety Engineer /  
Tyco Security Products
Tel: +1 905 760 3000  /  2568 
3301 Langstaff Road  / Concord, Ontario, L4K 4L2 / Canada
cbolintine...@tycoint.com  /   www.tycosecurityproducts.com



Access Control, Video, Location-Based Tracking and Intrusion. UNIFIED.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
privileged information or information otherwise protected by law. Any 
unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are 
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and 
destroy all copies of the original message. Any applicable rights to privilege 
have not been waived. 


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate
Sent: March-27-13 7:59 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

In message 
<3d061464a0c0bb438a8712afce9013831d92d...@tor1exc01.americas.tsp.ad>, 
dated Wed, 27 Mar 2013, "Bolintineanu, Constantin" 
 writes:

>
>IF we are following the CAS Number, then, this ebay product  is 
>definitely not the one specified within the 60950-1 Standard.

I didn't see any CAS number on the ebay product, but it quacks like a 
duck Anyway, one can enquire about the CAS number before buying.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message 
<3d061464a0c0bb438a8712afce9013831d92e...@tor1exc01.americas.tsp.ad>, 
dated Wed, 27 Mar 2013, "Bolintineanu, Constantin" 
 writes:



The one that I was able to read was 79-01-6


On one of the bottles? I already pointed out that two of them are 
labelled 'methyl alcohol'; the pictures are just to show the style of 
product.


I suppose you can read CAS 709-01-06 on the bottle with a blurred label. 
That substance is trichlorethene ('trichlorethylene'), not n-hexane at 
all.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Bolintineanu, Constantin]

The one that I was able to read was 79-01-6

Sincerely,

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng  / iNARTE Certified Product Safety Engineer /  
Tyco Security Products
Tel: +1 905 760 3000  /  2568 
3301 Langstaff Road  / Concord, Ontario, L4K 4L2 / Canada
cbolintine...@tycoint.com  /   www.tycosecurityproducts.com



Access Control, Video, Location-Based Tracking and Intrusion. UNIFIED.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
privileged information or information otherwise protected by law. Any 
unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are 
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and 
destroy all copies of the original message. Any applicable rights to privilege 
have not been waived. 


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate
Sent: March-27-13 7:59 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

In message 
<3d061464a0c0bb438a8712afce9013831d92d...@tor1exc01.americas.tsp.ad>, 
dated Wed, 27 Mar 2013, "Bolintineanu, Constantin" 
 writes:

>
>IF we are following the CAS Number, then, this ebay product  is 
>definitely not the one specified within the 60950-1 Standard.

I didn't see any CAS number on the ebay product, but it quacks like a 
duck Anyway, one can enquire about the CAS number before buying.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message 
<3d061464a0c0bb438a8712afce9013831d92d...@tor1exc01.americas.tsp.ad>, 
dated Wed, 27 Mar 2013, "Bolintineanu, Constantin" 
 writes:




IF we are following the CAS Number, then, this ebay product  is 
definitely not the one specified within the 60950-1 Standard.


I didn't see any CAS number on the ebay product, but it quacks like a 
duck Anyway, one can enquire about the CAS number before buying.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Bolintineanu, Constantin]

Anthony,

IF we are following the CAS Number, then, this ebay product  is definitely not 
the one specified within the 60950-1 Standard.

As per cas.org, a CAS Nr:

- Is a unique numeric identifier 
- Designates only one substance
- Has no chemical significance
- Is a link to a wealth of information about a specific chemical substance 

60950 specifies clearly CAS Nr. 110-54-3; According to the required and 
specified spec, it is not sufficient to use any n-hexane.
IF we would like to test with any n-hexane then we do not need any Standard, 
and as Rich specified, there will be no precision nor accuracy involved 
regarding this test. Cheap stuff, similar results: inconclusive.

Sincerely,

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng  / iNARTE Certified Product Safety Engineer /  
Tyco Security Products
Tel: +1 905 760 3000  /  2568 
3301 Langstaff Road  / Concord, Ontario, L4K 4L2 / Canada



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Thomson
Sent: March-27-13 5:27 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

eBay - http://www.ebay.com/sch/n-hexane
T
 
- Original Message -
From: Gelfand, David
Sent: 03/26/13 06:32 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent
 
Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly equivalent 
to the hexane specified in durability test: 

" The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane 
having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value of 
29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of 
approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l." 

Thanks in advance. 

David 
Kontron Canada Inc. 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Peter Merguerian]

Or ask UL where they purchase their stuff!

Sent from my iPhone

Peter S. Merguerian
pe...@goglobalcompliance.com
Go Global Compliance Inc.
www.goglobalcompliance.com
(408) 931-3303

On Mar 26, 2013, at 4:51 PM, John Woodgate  wrote:

> In message 
> , dated 
> Tue, 26 Mar 2013, IBM Ken  writes:
> 
>> If you are doing the label rub test under UL's DAP program I think the 
>> headaches involved (from the paperwork, not the fumes) would motivate me to 
>> just buy reagent grade Hexane from a chemical supply house
> 
> Correct, but specify 'n-hexane' as it has several close cousins.
> -- 
> OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
> SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
> John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message <7dbab8bb-e580-4ce5-9119-91dba3c7a...@conformance.co.uk>, 
dated Wed, 27 Mar 2013, Nick Williams  
writes:


Lighter re-fill fluid (as used in Zippo type cigarette lighters) is a 
pretty good match for the solvent required and comes in handy sized 
containers from many high street locations. 


This is one of the fluids that there were complaints about. Some brands, 
at least, contain significant amounts of aromatic hydrocarbons, that 
will dissolve adhesives that n-hexane will not.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message <20130327092640.323...@gmx.com>, dated Wed, 27 Mar 2013, 
Anthony Thomson  writes:



eBay - http://www.ebay.com/sch/n-hexane

T
Yes, this is the genuine stuff, and I don't suppose the bottles are 
labelled 'Methyl Alcohol'. (;-)

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Anthony Thomson]

eBay - http://www.ebay.com/sch/n-hexane 
T
- Original Message -
From: Gelfand, David
Sent: 03/26/13 06:32 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly equivalent 
to the hexane specified in durability test: " The petroleum spirit to be used 
for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane having a maximum aromatics content of 
0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value of 29, an initial boiling point of 
approximately 65 °C, a dry point of approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit 
volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l." Thanks in advance. David Kontron Canada Inc.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Nick Williams]

Lighter re-fill fluid (as used in Zippo type cigarette lighters) is a pretty 
good match for the solvent required and comes in handy sized containers from 
many high street locations. 

Nick. 




On 26 Mar 2013, at 18:32, "Gelfand, David"  wrote:

> Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly equivalent 
> to the hexane specified in durability test:
> 
> " The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane 
> having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value 
> of 29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of 
> approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l." 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> David
> Kontron Canada Inc.
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 

Nick Williams
Director
Direct line: +44 1298 873811
Mobile: +44 7702 995135
email: nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk

-

Conformance Ltd - Product safety, approvals and CE-marking consultants
The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG England
Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.uk
Registered in England, Company No. 3478646


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Andy]

Pete,
Some people can make simple things very difficult, even when it is not 
necessary.  I think many people will recognise these type of organisations.

cheers   andy

Andy Mullan UK.



-Original Message-
From: Pete Perkins 
To: EMC-PSTC 
Sent: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 4:28
Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent


David et al,
Lot's of discussion around a topic that is hardly mainstream in most
roduct certifications.  
The frustrating part is that the 950 committee intended to implement
 simple test that had successfully been used for many years, I remember the
iscussion.  However it was clear from the outset that the use of a generic
roduct class name (mineral spirits) was not acceptable on a worldwide basis
o it was converted to a chemical naming.  This, however, has caused ongoing
eadaches, as you have noted, in procuring and using the material in product
valuation.  Worse yet if you has to have a chemical composition test data
rom the supplier  from a calibrated machine.
Complication, obfuscation and despair...  How can something so
imple be made so complicated.  
Oh well, that's what you get your ulcer money for.  
:>) br, Pete

eter E Perkins, PE
rincipal Product Safety Engineer
O Box 23427
igard, ORe  97281-3427

03/452-1201 fone/fax
.perk...@ieee.org

-
---
his message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
iscussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
emc-p...@ieee.org>
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
ttp://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
ttp://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
ormats), large files, etc.
Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
nstructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
ist rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
cott Douglas 
ike Cantwell 
For policy questions, send mail to:
im Bacher:  
avid Heald: 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message <5BE799EB4B1A424BA16063A6C0D9D6DB@Pete97219Compaq>, dated 
Tue, 26 Mar 2013, Pete Perkins  writes:



  Complication, obfuscation and despair...  How can something so
simple be made so complicated.


As I explained, simply by a convener not being a chemist and 
misinterpreting the somewhat off-base information supplied to him. Over 
the years I have found the safety committees quite resistant to change, 
especially when dealing with disciplines outside their direct 
experience, such as chemistry (n-hexane) and electrochemistry - the list 
of contact potentials.


Having taken several years to correct an obvious (to a chemist) 
ten-times error in one figure, I asked some experts in SC48B about the 
usefulness of this table. Frankly, the result was laughter - it's not 
very useful, because it gives meaningful indications about corrosion 
only under clean laboratory conditions. In the real world there are 
always other things present - notably chlorides - which have profound 
effects.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Pete Perkins]

David et al,

Lot's of discussion around a topic that is hardly mainstream in most
product certifications.  

The frustrating part is that the 950 committee intended to implement
a simple test that had successfully been used for many years, I remember the
discussion.  However it was clear from the outset that the use of a generic
product class name (mineral spirits) was not acceptable on a worldwide basis
so it was converted to a chemical naming.  This, however, has caused ongoing
headaches, as you have noted, in procuring and using the material in product
evaluation.  Worse yet if you has to have a chemical composition test data
from the supplier  from a calibrated machine.

Complication, obfuscation and despair...  How can something so
simple be made so complicated.  

Oh well, that's what you get your ulcer money for.  

:>) br, Pete
 
Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety Engineer
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427
 
503/452-1201 fone/fax
p.perk...@ieee.org
 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message <51520fd9.8040...@ieee.org>, dated Tue, 26 Mar 2013, Richard 
Nute  writes:


Solvent action (if it is not water) on a label is similar (likely more 
severe) to the specified hexane.  If the label passes with turpentine 
or paint thinner, it is likely to pass with hexane.


I agree, but using the wrong stuff is formally not applying the 
standard.


(In the U.S.A., paint thinner WOULD NOT be carbon tet!)


Also in Europe, I think, but it was in use within living memory for 
resin lacquers, and I still have some! And in this particular 
application, (small amount, very infrequent), it would not be much of a 
problem, except that it might dissolve the whole enclosure!


OT Note: I read on the label of my 'label remover spray' about the 
hazards of limonene, and the next day read that there is some in my 
toothpaste!

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Richard Nute]

On 3/26/2013 1:50 PM, John Woodgate wrote:


NO! Turpentine is VERY different indeed chemically. 'Paint thinner' 
these days can be anything from water, through ethylene trichloride 
and carbon tetrachloride to 'white spirit' and stuff more like gasoline.


Yes, but...

Solvent action (if it is not water) on a label is similar (likely more 
severe) to the specified hexane.  If the label passes with turpentine or 
paint thinner, it is likely to pass with hexane.


(In the U.S.A., paint thinner WOULD NOT be carbon tet!)


Best regards,
Rich

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message 
, 
dated Tue, 26 Mar 2013, IBM Ken  writes:


If you are doing the label rub test under UL's DAP program I think the 
headaches involved (from the paperwork, not the fumes) would motivate 
me to just buy reagent grade Hexane from a chemical supply house


Correct, but specify 'n-hexane' as it has several close cousins.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message <5151f0eb.4080...@ieee.org>, dated Tue, 26 Mar 2013, Richard 
Nute  writes:




Also known as "mineral spirits," "Stoddard solvent," and "white spirits."

Very close to turpentine and paint thinner, which you can buy at the
hardware store.


NO! Turpentine is VERY different indeed chemically. 'Paint thinner' 
these days can be anything from water, through ethylene trichloride and 
carbon tetrachloride to 'white spirit' and stuff more like gasoline.


Check out:

   http://www.naturalpigments.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=520-7751

Note the description is almost word-for-word the same as 60950-1!


Suspiciously like it. In fact, the description is internally 
inconsistent and not reliable. It says first:


It is a mixture of aliphatic and alicyclic C7 to C12 hydrocarbons with a 
maximum content of 25% of C7 to C12 aromatic hydrocarbons.


NOTE THAT: 25%

C7 to C12 means heptane to dodecane, not hexane at all, and the 25% 
aromatics makes it a far more aggressive solvent for some materials than 
hexane is.


The following text is garbled and repetitive and it's only there that 
the 'magic words' hexane, kauri-butanol etc. appear:


A typical composition for mineral spirits is the following: > 65% C10 or 
higher hydrocarbons, aliphatic solvent hexane,


and a maximum aromatic hydrocarbon content of 0.1% by volume,

NOTE THAT: 0.1% It lost 24.99% in two lines of text!

a kauri-butanol value of 29, an initial boiling point of 149 °F (65 °C), 
a dry point of approximately 156 °F (69 °C), and a specific mass of 0.7 
g/cc. Stoddard solvent is a specific mixture of hydrocarbons typically > 
65% C10 or higher hydrocarbons.



--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[McInturff, Gary]

Rich,
You are correct they will accept a recognize marking system without test - but 
it doesn't matter, if they are preparing a CB report for Europe they are 
required to test the label.

Gary


-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:04 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

Hi David:


Two issues are involved here:

1)  Label adherence to the surface to which it is attached;
2)  Durability of the data printed on the label.

I don't have a copy of UL 969, so I don't know if it
addresses both issues.

If you are dealing with UL, I'm sure you can get them to
accept UL 969 without the 60950-1 durability test.

However, if you are dealing strictly with 60950-1 (as
in a CB report), then the label must pass the durability
test.

In my experience, there is not much difference between
the required hexane and turpentine/paint thinner.  If
I recall correctly, turpentine/paint thinner is more
severe than hexane.

The test itself is not very repeatable, especially if
the result is marginal.


Best regards,
Rich





On 3/26/2013 12:31 PM, Gelfand, David wrote:
> Brian,
>
> I am not an organic chemist either.  With great effort I recall C and H with 
> funny subscript numbers...
>
> We are using a UL 969-approved label system.
> Surprise, it didn't pass the hexane durability test!
> Looking through UL 969, there doesn't seem to be an equivalent durability 
> test.
>
> It would appear that having a UL 969 approved label system does not guarantee 
> passing the durability test as specified in 60950-1.
> Or as I asked my safety lab guy, "Did someone spike your hexane?"
>
> Has anyone ever encountered this problem before?
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 3:01 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent
>
> Next paragraph says
>
> "As an alternative, it is permitted to use a reagent grade hexane with a 
> minimum of 85 % as n-hexane.
> NOTE The designation "n-hexane" is chemical nomenclature for a ?normal? or 
> straight chain hydrocarbon. This petroleum spirit may further be identified 
> as a certified ACS (American Chemical Society) reagent grade hexane (CAS# 
> 110-54-3)."
>
> I am not an organic chemist. Perhaps acetone or methylcyclohexane would be 
> suitable alternate. Heptane is considered close, but do not know if easily 
> sourced.
>
> Also, as hexane is on the U.S. and Canada list of really bad carcinogenic 
> stuff, and TC108 needs to find something else that is a reasonably available 
> equivalent.
>
> Perhaps the best long-term solution would be use of UL969-approved label 
> system.
>
> Brian
>
> -Original Message-
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gelfand, David
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:32 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: 60950-1 durability test solvent
>
>
> Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly equivalent 
> to the hexane specified in durability test:
>
> " The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane 
> having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value 
> of 29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of 
> approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l."
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> David
> Kontron Canada Inc.
>
>

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communitie

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[McInturff, Gary]

Interesting N-hexane is also the gas they inject into test chambers to see if 
there is an explosion in the presence of a spark. 
Mil-810F section 511.4-2 
paragraph 2.1 
Unless otherwise specific, use n-hexane, either reagent grade or 95% n-hexane 
with 5% hexane isomers. 
Given that the test explosion in the chamber was much less impressive than I 
had hoped for the sheer test excitement value, it must be a very low ignition 
point, low energy fuel. No wonder my labels never stick on, they are getting 
blown off in shipping.

Gary


-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:24 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

In message , dated 
Tue, 26 Mar 2013, "Gelfand, David"  
writes:

>Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly 
>equivalent to the hexane specified in durability test:
>
>" The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent 
>hexane having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a 
>kauributenol value of 29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 
>°C, a dry point of approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of 
>approximately 0,7 kg/l."

It's actually about 20% nonsense.  I'll explain. Long years ago, I 
objected to the bare phrase 'petroleum spirit' in IEC 65 (as it was 
then, because people were using all sorts of jungle juice, some of which 
dissolved the moulded enclosures. I suggested defining the reagent as 
'n-hexane'. The convener at that time, not being a chemist, asked a 
company chemist what 'n-hexane' was, and received that complicated text, 
presumably extracted from a supplier's specification.

Later, I raised the issue again, following complaints that reagent to 
that specification was no longer available except as a 'to order' 
product, and that text was meant to be replaced by a simpler one, but I 
see in current (and even future) editions (of IEC/EN 60065, I haven't 
looked at IEC/EN 60950-1 or 62389-1 in case they are even more 
disappointing), the text is in the wrong order, or the GOOD information 
is relegated to a Note:

NOTE The designation “n-hexane” is chemical nomenclature for a 
"normal" or straight chain hydrocarbon. This petroleum spirit may 
further be identified as a certified ACS (American Chemical Society) 
reagent grade hexane 1042 (CAS# 110-54-3).

You should be able to buy that quite easily.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message <04462eaab3274b1096ea410acd96b...@tamuracorp.com>, dated Tue, 
26 Mar 2013, Brian Oconnell  writes:


I am not an organic chemist. Perhaps acetone or methylcyclohexane would 
be suitable alternate. Heptane is considered close, but do not know if 
easily sourced.


NO! Acetone will dissolve many moulding materials. Methylcyclohexane is 
also a solvent, and quite different from n-hexane, except that it is 
just about as unhealthy. But in this application, the quantities are 
small and very infrequently used.


Also, as hexane is on the U.S. and Canada list of really bad 
carcinogenic stuff, and TC108 needs to find something else that is a 
reasonably available equivalent.


There seems to be conflicting information about its carcinogenicity, but 
on-line MSDS do not confirm it. An example is:


CARCINOGEN STATUS:
OSHA: N
NTP: N
IARC: N
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[John Woodgate]

In message , dated 
Tue, 26 Mar 2013, "Gelfand, David"  
writes:


Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly 
equivalent to the hexane specified in durability test:


" The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent 
hexane having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a 
kauributenol value of 29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 
°C, a dry point of approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of 
approximately 0,7 kg/l."


It's actually about 20% nonsense.  I'll explain. Long years ago, I 
objected to the bare phrase 'petroleum spirit' in IEC 65 (as it was 
then, because people were using all sorts of jungle juice, some of which 
dissolved the moulded enclosures. I suggested defining the reagent as 
'n-hexane'. The convener at that time, not being a chemist, asked a 
company chemist what 'n-hexane' was, and received that complicated text, 
presumably extracted from a supplier's specification.


Later, I raised the issue again, following complaints that reagent to 
that specification was no longer available except as a 'to order' 
product, and that text was meant to be replaced by a simpler one, but I 
see in current (and even future) editions (of IEC/EN 60065, I haven't 
looked at IEC/EN 60950-1 or 62389-1 in case they are even more 
disappointing), the text is in the wrong order, or the GOOD information 
is relegated to a Note:


NOTE The designation “n-hexane” is chemical nomenclature for a 
"normal" or straight chain hydrocarbon. This petroleum spirit may 
further be identified as a certified ACS (American Chemical Society) 
reagent grade hexane 1042 (CAS# 110-54-3).


You should be able to buy that quite easily.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
SHOCK HORROR! Dinosaur-like DNA found in chicken and turkey meals
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Richard Nute]

Hi David:


Two issues are involved here:

1)  Label adherence to the surface to which it is attached;
2)  Durability of the data printed on the label.

I don't have a copy of UL 969, so I don't know if it
addresses both issues.

If you are dealing with UL, I'm sure you can get them to
accept UL 969 without the 60950-1 durability test.

However, if you are dealing strictly with 60950-1 (as
in a CB report), then the label must pass the durability
test.

In my experience, there is not much difference between
the required hexane and turpentine/paint thinner.  If
I recall correctly, turpentine/paint thinner is more
severe than hexane.

The test itself is not very repeatable, especially if
the result is marginal.


Best regards,
Rich





On 3/26/2013 12:31 PM, Gelfand, David wrote:

Brian,

I am not an organic chemist either.  With great effort I recall C and H with 
funny subscript numbers...

We are using a UL 969-approved label system.
Surprise, it didn't pass the hexane durability test!
Looking through UL 969, there doesn't seem to be an equivalent durability test.

It would appear that having a UL 969 approved label system does not guarantee 
passing the durability test as specified in 60950-1.
Or as I asked my safety lab guy, "Did someone spike your hexane?"

Has anyone ever encountered this problem before?

Regards,

David


-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 3:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

Next paragraph says

"As an alternative, it is permitted to use a reagent grade hexane with a 
minimum of 85 % as n-hexane.
NOTE The designation "n-hexane" is chemical nomenclature for a ?normal? or straight 
chain hydrocarbon. This petroleum spirit may further be identified as a certified ACS 
(American Chemical Society) reagent grade hexane (CAS# 110-54-3)."

I am not an organic chemist. Perhaps acetone or methylcyclohexane would be 
suitable alternate. Heptane is considered close, but do not know if easily 
sourced.

Also, as hexane is on the U.S. and Canada list of really bad carcinogenic 
stuff, and TC108 needs to find something else that is a reasonably available 
equivalent.

Perhaps the best long-term solution would be use of UL969-approved label system.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gelfand, David
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:32 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: 60950-1 durability test solvent


Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly equivalent 
to the hexane specified in durability test:

" The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane having a 
maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value of 29, an initial 
boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of approximately 69 °C and a mass per 
unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l."

Thanks in advance.

David
Kontron Canada Inc.




-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Brian Oconnell]

David,

Correct about the limited test series per UL969. Label requirements depend
on the equipment and intended end-use. Note that there are some label
'systems' where conditions of acceptability indicate the solvent test.

For some types of my employer's boxes, label test requirements were so
onerous that just had to surrender and specify a stamped steel plate. But
you must be immune to the screams of anguish from the project manager
because of the $$$.

So when the user pours non-polar solvents on your widget, the unit dissolves
but the label remains...success.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Gelfand, David [mailto:david.gelf...@ca.kontron.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:32 PM
To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

Brian,

I am not an organic chemist either.  With great effort I recall C and H with
funny subscript numbers...

We are using a UL 969-approved label system.  
Surprise, it didn't pass the hexane durability test!  
Looking through UL 969, there doesn't seem to be an equivalent durability
test.

It would appear that having a UL 969 approved label system does not
guarantee passing the durability test as specified in 60950-1.
Or as I asked my safety lab guy, "Did someone spike your hexane?"

Has anyone ever encountered this problem before?

Regards,

David


-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 3:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

Next paragraph says

"As an alternative, it is permitted to use a reagent grade hexane with a
minimum of 85 % as n-hexane.
NOTE The designation "n-hexane" is chemical nomenclature for a ?normal? or
straight chain hydrocarbon. This petroleum spirit may further be identified
as a certified ACS (American Chemical Society) reagent grade hexane (CAS#
110-54-3)."

I am not an organic chemist. Perhaps acetone or methylcyclohexane would be
suitable alternate. Heptane is considered close, but do not know if easily
sourced.

Also, as hexane is on the U.S. and Canada list of really bad carcinogenic
stuff, and TC108 needs to find something else that is a reasonably available
equivalent.

Perhaps the best long-term solution would be use of UL969-approved label
system.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gelfand,
David
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:32 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: 60950-1 durability test solvent

Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly
equivalent to the hexane specified in durability test:

" The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane
having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value
of 29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of
approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l." 

Thanks in advance.

David
Kontron Canada Inc.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Gelfand, David]

Brian,

I am not an organic chemist either.  With great effort I recall C and H with 
funny subscript numbers...

We are using a UL 969-approved label system.  
Surprise, it didn't pass the hexane durability test!  
Looking through UL 969, there doesn't seem to be an equivalent durability test.

It would appear that having a UL 969 approved label system does not guarantee 
passing the durability test as specified in 60950-1.
Or as I asked my safety lab guy, "Did someone spike your hexane?"

Has anyone ever encountered this problem before?

Regards,

David


-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 3:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

Next paragraph says

"As an alternative, it is permitted to use a reagent grade hexane with a 
minimum of 85 % as n-hexane.
NOTE The designation "n-hexane" is chemical nomenclature for a ?normal? or 
straight chain hydrocarbon. This petroleum spirit may further be identified as 
a certified ACS (American Chemical Society) reagent grade hexane (CAS# 
110-54-3)."

I am not an organic chemist. Perhaps acetone or methylcyclohexane would be 
suitable alternate. Heptane is considered close, but do not know if easily 
sourced.

Also, as hexane is on the U.S. and Canada list of really bad carcinogenic 
stuff, and TC108 needs to find something else that is a reasonably available 
equivalent.

Perhaps the best long-term solution would be use of UL969-approved label system.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gelfand, David
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:32 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: 60950-1 durability test solvent


Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly equivalent 
to the hexane specified in durability test:

" The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane 
having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value of 
29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of 
approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l." 

Thanks in advance.

David
Kontron Canada Inc.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Gelfand, David]

Hi Ken,

 

We're looking for a quick and cheap pre-compliance test.  We know where to get 
the real thing but don't want to deal with purchasing and delays.  Sorry for 
the confusion. 

 

David 

 

From: IBM Ken [mailto:ibm...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 3:12 PM
To: ri...@ieee.org
Cc: Gelfand, David; EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: 60950-1 durability test solvent

 

If you are doing the label rub test under UL's DAP program I think the 
headaches involved (from the paperwork, not the fumes) would motivate me to 
just buy reagent grade Hexane from a chemical supply house rather than argue 
with UL over what the content of a can of commercial product from the hardware 
store is... just my 2c.

 

-Ken A

On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Richard Nute  wrote:

Hi David:


Also known as "mineral spirits," "Stoddard solvent," and "white spirits."

Very close to turpentine and paint thinner, which you can buy at the
hardware store.

Check out:

http://www.naturalpigments.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=520-7751

Note the description is almost word-for-word the same as 60950-1!


Best regards,
Rich 






On 3/26/2013 11:32 AM, Gelfand, David wrote:

Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly equivalent 
to the hexane specified in durability test:

" The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane 
having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value of 
29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of 
approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l."

Thanks in advance.

David
Kontron Canada Inc.





-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Brian Oconnell]

Next paragraph says

"As an alternative, it is permitted to use a reagent grade hexane with a
minimum of 85 % as n-hexane.
NOTE The designation "n-hexane" is chemical nomenclature for a ?normal? or
straight chain hydrocarbon. This petroleum spirit may
further be identified as a certified ACS (American Chemical Society) reagent
grade hexane (CAS# 110-54-3)."

I am not an organic chemist. Perhaps acetone or methylcyclohexane would be
suitable alternate. Heptane is considered close, but do not know if easily
sourced.

Also, as hexane is on the U.S. and Canada list of really bad carcinogenic
stuff, and TC108 needs to find something else that is a reasonably available
equivalent.

Perhaps the best long-term solution would be use of UL969-approved label
system.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gelfand,
David
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:32 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: 60950-1 durability test solvent


Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly
equivalent to the hexane specified in durability test:

" The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane
having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value
of 29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of
approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l." 

Thanks in advance.

David
Kontron Canada Inc.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[IBM Ken]

If you are doing the label rub test under UL's DAP program I think the
headaches involved (from the paperwork, not the fumes) would motivate me to
just buy reagent grade Hexane from a chemical supply house rather than
argue with UL over what the content of a can of commercial product from the
hardware store is... just my 2c.

-Ken A

On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Richard Nute  wrote:

> Hi David:
>
>
> Also known as "mineral spirits," "Stoddard solvent," and "white spirits."
>
> Very close to turpentine and paint thinner, which you can buy at the
> hardware store.
>
> Check out:
>
> 
> http://www.naturalpigments.**com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=520-**7751
>
> Note the description is almost word-for-word the same as 60950-1!
>
>
> Best regards,
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/26/2013 11:32 AM, Gelfand, David wrote:
>
>> Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly
>> equivalent to the hexane specified in durability test:
>>
>> " The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent
>> hexane having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a
>> kauributenol value of 29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C,
>> a dry point of approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of
>> approximately 0,7 kg/l."
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> David
>> Kontron Canada Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> -
> --**--**
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-**pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.**ieee.org/can
>  be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  
> http://listserv.ieee.org/**request/user-guide.html
> List rules: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/**listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 
>

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Richard Nute]

Hi David:


Also known as "mineral spirits," "Stoddard solvent," and "white spirits."

Very close to turpentine and paint thinner, which you can buy at the
hardware store.

Check out:

http://www.naturalpigments.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=520-7751

Note the description is almost word-for-word the same as 60950-1!


Best regards,
Rich




On 3/26/2013 11:32 AM, Gelfand, David wrote:

Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly equivalent 
to the hexane specified in durability test:

" The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane having a 
maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value of 29, an initial 
boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of approximately 69 °C and a mass per 
unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l."

Thanks in advance.

David
Kontron Canada Inc.





-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] 60950-1 durability test solvent

[Gelfand, David]

Is there a product I can buy at the hardware store that is roughly equivalent 
to the hexane specified in durability test:

" The petroleum spirit to be used for the test is aliphatic solvent hexane 
having a maximum aromatics content of 0,1 % by volume, a kauributenol value of 
29, an initial boiling point of approximately 65 °C, a dry point of 
approximately 69 °C and a mass per unit volume of approximately 0,7 kg/l." 

Thanks in advance.

David
Kontron Canada Inc.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: