Re: Marking Languages for Canada
Clause 1.7.2 says safety related markings should be in a language acceptable in the destination country. Since the markings are in English only, the power supply may be installed in the English speaking provinces without any problem. The Province of Quebec has language laws and regulations. A field inspector (in Quebec) can stop the installation because the English markings are not acceptable there. There are acceptable symbols that convey the same warning message. These symbols can be found in IEC 60417-1. You may advise your power supply vendor to consider using symbols in the future. Then the vendor will not have to worry about country in which the power supply is used. This should take of any language problem, be it French, Chinese or Swahili. The vendor may have to resubmit the new label artwork to UL for approval. Regards, Allen douglas_beckw...@mitel.com wrote: > The key word in 1.7.12 is 'country'. At the moment, Canada is one country, > with two official languages, either of which is legally acceptable. I will > say though, that regradless of the law, I believe we are morally obliged to > make safety instuctions as clear and understandable as possible, as a > misunderstanding of an instruction could potentially cause a hazard to > someone. That means, we translate important instructions/labels into French > and English for Canada. > > Regards > > Doug > > soundsu...@aol.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 08/02/2002 11:37:56 AM > > Please respond to soundsu...@aol.com > > Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > cc: > Subject: Re: Marking Languages for Canada > > Gary McInturff wrote: > > >>>>I believe UL does require it, but as Rich pointed out it isn't always > followed up, and II think is somewhat vague about it, intentionally I > imagine. To be very specific about it one would have to know what countries > the equipment will be installed in? Often the manufacturer doesn't know, or > if they do initially that is subject to change. If you can't control the > export then do you require warnings in Malayalam (Southern India I > believe), > Arabic, Japanese, Chinese, (which dialect). ad nausium. How about those > countries where UL 60950 has no real standing. I think EN60950 has the same > clauses and they are no more illuminating. > > 1.7.12 Language > Instructions and equipment marking related to safety shall be in a language > which is acceptable in the country in which the equipment is to be > installed. > <<<<<<< > > This is pretty much on the mark. I was a manager at UL when this issue was > put forth to the chief engineer's office. It was recognized that the > standard required warning markings to be placed on the product in the > appropriate language for the intended market, and the follow-up service > procedures specifically included that requirement. However, it was also > understood that there is no way for any UL follow-up inspector to know > where > the product was intended to be shipped, nor is it possible for a FUS > inspector to evaluate a warning marking in Swahili, for example and > determine > its compliance with the standard. Therefore, the decision was to have the > inspectors verify the english wording of the warning marking and place the > burden of compliance with local language (other than English) on the > manufacturer. > > Greg Galluccio > www.productapprovals.com > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com > Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ > Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" > > --- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Ron
Re: Marking Languages for Canada
The key word in 1.7.12 is 'country'. At the moment, Canada is one country, with two official languages, either of which is legally acceptable. I will say though, that regradless of the law, I believe we are morally obliged to make safety instuctions as clear and understandable as possible, as a misunderstanding of an instruction could potentially cause a hazard to someone. That means, we translate important instructions/labels into French and English for Canada. Regards Doug soundsu...@aol.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 08/02/2002 11:37:56 AM Please respond to soundsu...@aol.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Re: Marking Languages for Canada Gary McInturff wrote: >>>>I believe UL does require it, but as Rich pointed out it isn't always followed up, and II think is somewhat vague about it, intentionally I imagine. To be very specific about it one would have to know what countries the equipment will be installed in? Often the manufacturer doesn't know, or if they do initially that is subject to change. If you can't control the export then do you require warnings in Malayalam (Southern India I believe), Arabic, Japanese, Chinese, (which dialect). ad nausium. How about those countries where UL 60950 has no real standing. I think EN60950 has the same clauses and they are no more illuminating. 1.7.12 Language Instructions and equipment marking related to safety shall be in a language which is acceptable in the country in which the equipment is to be installed. <<<<<<< This is pretty much on the mark. I was a manager at UL when this issue was put forth to the chief engineer's office. It was recognized that the standard required warning markings to be placed on the product in the appropriate language for the intended market, and the follow-up service procedures specifically included that requirement. However, it was also understood that there is no way for any UL follow-up inspector to know where the product was intended to be shipped, nor is it possible for a FUS inspector to evaluate a warning marking in Swahili, for example and determine its compliance with the standard. Therefore, the decision was to have the inspectors verify the english wording of the warning marking and place the burden of compliance with local language (other than English) on the manufacturer. Greg Galluccio www.productapprovals.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
I must throw in with Rich Nute on this topic. The need for a marking in this instance is very context sensitive: if the marking is required by the US standard, but not by the Canadian standard, the marking does not need to be translated into French. Otherwise, there is no legal requirement. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
I have a direct plug-in power supply in my hand that has the following warnings: CAUTION Indoor use only AVERTISSEMENT Pour utilisation a l'interieur seulement I looked at another and it has the following warnings: CAUTION Risk of electric shock, dry location use only ATTENTION Risque de decharge electrique, a utiliser seulement dans un endroit sec. Shock hazard, non-serviceable parts inside. If the French Canadian warnings are not on the power supply, then they are required to be located in the instruction manual. Best regards, Jim Seippel
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
Group, The "you" in my last post was meant as "any manufacturer" it was not a direct question... just in case someone thought I would ask such a question in an open forum such as this... Best regards, Garry Hojan CEO/ President Strategic Compliance Services (SCS) a Division of NRL, L.L.C. 11402 E Mariposa Rd. Stockton, CA 95215 Tel:209-465-0619 Fax:209-812-1931 Mobile: 209-662-4322 Email: gho...@regulatory-compliance.com Web:www.regulatory-compliance.com -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Constantin Bolintineanu Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 8:22 AM To: 'gho...@regulatory-compliance.com'; 'Peter Merguerian'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RE: Marking Languages for Canada To a such a REPLY, . NO COMMENTS... Constantin Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng. DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD. 3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2 CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568 Fax: 905 760 3020 -Original Message- From: Garry Hojan [mailto:gho...@regulatory-compliance.com] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:13 AM To: Constantin Bolintineanu; 'Peter Merguerian'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada Constantine my friend, I would have to agree with you on this one. Also, just because the SCC accredited entity decides that their policy is to not enforce this, step back a second Do you want to open yourself up to the liability (which will ultimately ride on the manufacturer's shoulders - I am currently debating with a collegue over this single point) of some sue happy French speaking person to take the transformer out into his sprinkler and use the improper labeling to make a case that he didn't know because it was't in his language? Regards, Garry -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Constantin Bolintineanu Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 6:06 AM To: 'Peter Merguerian'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada Dear Peter, In my opinion, your statement is not 100% accurate and thus, it may confuse some of our colleagues. The subject is MARKING related to WARNINGS when we are discussing CERTIFIED POWER SUPPLIES (Direct Plug-In for Canada), and thus, we shall consider the CERTIFICATION requirements for CANADA. In this particular situation described by Kris, the applicable CANADIAN Standard is CAN CSA C22.2. No.223-M91. In regard to the required MARKING (label) the above mentioned Standard (223) specifies that: the WARNING(S) (if are required by different Clauses) the WARNING(S) [ONLY the TEXT OF THE WARNINGS !], MUST APPEAR ON the MARKING LABEL IN both LANGUAGES, in English AND French. There are 3(three) possible WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) which may be required - depending of the environment, wiring, and field of application. These WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) shall appear ONLY IF ARE REQUIRED (e.g.: see Clause 4.13.3 which makes references to the MARKING Clause 5.2., etc...), and thus I assume that you did not see those on a DIRECT PLUG-IN POWER SUPPLY CERTIFIED FOR CANADA. I hope it helps to better understand why the WARNINGS TEXT ONLY (when required) shall be in English AND French. Respectfully yours, Constantin Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng. DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD. 3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2 CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568 Fax: 905 760 3020 -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:24 AM To: 'Carpentier Kristiaan'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada Carpentier, UL does not require that language be in French and English for units carrying the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling and Packaging Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I suggest you get a copy and adhere to the rules. I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on its' label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning marking on it. Regards, This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com -Original Message- From: Carpentier Kri
Re: Marking Languages for Canada
Gary McInturff wrote: I believe UL does require it, but as Rich pointed out it isn't always followed up, and II think is somewhat vague about it, intentionally I imagine. To be very specific about it one would have to know what countries the equipment will be installed in? Often the manufacturer doesn't know, or if they do initially that is subject to change. If you can't control the export then do you require warnings in Malayalam (Southern India I believe), Arabic, Japanese, Chinese, (which dialect). ad nausium. How about those countries where UL 60950 has no real standing. I think EN60950 has the same clauses and they are no more illuminating. 1.7.12 Language Instructions and equipment marking related to safety shall be in a language which is acceptable in the country in which the equipment is to be installed. <<< This is pretty much on the mark. I was a manager at UL when this issue was put forth to the chief engineer's office. It was recognized that the standard required warning markings to be placed on the product in the appropriate language for the intended market, and the follow-up service procedures specifically included that requirement. However, it was also understood that there is no way for any UL follow-up inspector to know where the product was intended to be shipped, nor is it possible for a FUS inspector to evaluate a warning marking in Swahili, for example and determine its compliance with the standard. Therefore, the decision was to have the inspectors verify the english wording of the warning marking and place the burden of compliance with local language (other than English) on the manufacturer. Greg Galluccio www.productapprovals.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
Forgive me if this is a bit off-topic, but most Americans forget that everything north of Maine is not Canada. Although it's a small market, the territory of Saint Pierre and Miquelon is a department of France. Thus, we have a little (very French) piece of the EU on our side of the Atlantic. Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
To a such a REPLY, . NO COMMENTS... Constantin Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng. DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD. 3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2 CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568 Fax: 905 760 3020 -Original Message- From: Garry Hojan [mailto:gho...@regulatory-compliance.com] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:13 AM To: Constantin Bolintineanu; 'Peter Merguerian'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada Constantine my friend, I would have to agree with you on this one. Also, just because the SCC accredited entity decides that their policy is to not enforce this, step back a second Do you want to open yourself up to the liability (which will ultimately ride on the manufacturer's shoulders - I am currently debating with a collegue over this single point) of some sue happy French speaking person to take the transformer out into his sprinkler and use the improper labeling to make a case that he didn't know because it was't in his language? Regards, Garry -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Constantin Bolintineanu Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 6:06 AM To: 'Peter Merguerian'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada Dear Peter, In my opinion, your statement is not 100% accurate and thus, it may confuse some of our colleagues. The subject is MARKING related to WARNINGS when we are discussing CERTIFIED POWER SUPPLIES (Direct Plug-In for Canada), and thus, we shall consider the CERTIFICATION requirements for CANADA. In this particular situation described by Kris, the applicable CANADIAN Standard is CAN CSA C22.2. No.223-M91. In regard to the required MARKING (label) the above mentioned Standard (223) specifies that: the WARNING(S) (if are required by different Clauses) the WARNING(S) [ONLY the TEXT OF THE WARNINGS !], MUST APPEAR ON the MARKING LABEL IN both LANGUAGES, in English AND French. There are 3(three) possible WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) which may be required - depending of the environment, wiring, and field of application. These WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) shall appear ONLY IF ARE REQUIRED (e.g.: see Clause 4.13.3 which makes references to the MARKING Clause 5.2., etc...), and thus I assume that you did not see those on a DIRECT PLUG-IN POWER SUPPLY CERTIFIED FOR CANADA. I hope it helps to better understand why the WARNINGS TEXT ONLY (when required) shall be in English AND French. Respectfully yours, Constantin Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng. DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD. 3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2 CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568 Fax: 905 760 3020 -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:24 AM To: 'Carpentier Kristiaan'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada Carpentier, UL does not require that language be in French and English for units carrying the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling and Packaging Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I suggest you get a copy and adhere to the rules. I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on its' label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning marking on it. Regards, This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com -Original Message- From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:37 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Marking Languages for Canada Hello group, A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL marking with C and US. The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. Question: Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the product is sold in Canada? If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if there is an approval for US+Canada? Thanks for your answers. Kris Carpentier --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. V
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
Constantine my friend,
I would have to agree with you on this one. Also, just because the SCC
accredited entity decides that their policy is to not enforce this, step
back a second
Do you want to open yourself up to the liability (which will ultimately ride
on the manufacturer's shoulders - I am currently debating with a collegue
over this single point) of some sue happy French speaking person to take the
transformer out into his sprinkler and use the improper labeling to make a
case that he didn't know because it was't in his language?
Regards,
Garry
-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Constantin
Bolintineanu
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 6:06 AM
To: 'Peter Merguerian'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada
Dear Peter,
In my opinion, your statement is not 100% accurate and thus, it may confuse
some of our colleagues.
The subject is MARKING related to WARNINGS when we are discussing CERTIFIED
POWER SUPPLIES (Direct Plug-In for Canada), and thus, we shall consider the
CERTIFICATION requirements for CANADA.
In this particular situation described by Kris, the applicable CANADIAN
Standard is CAN CSA C22.2. No.223-M91.
In regard to the required MARKING (label) the above mentioned Standard (223)
specifies that: the WARNING(S) (if are required by different Clauses) the
WARNING(S) [ONLY the TEXT OF THE WARNINGS !], MUST APPEAR ON the MARKING
LABEL IN both LANGUAGES, in English AND French.
There are 3(three) possible WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) which may be
equired - depending of the environment, wiring, and field of application.
These WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) shall appear ONLY IF ARE REQUIRED (e.g.: see
Clause 4.13.3 which makes references to the MARKING Clause 5.2., etc...),
and thus I assume that you did not see those on a DIRECT PLUG-IN POWER
SUPPLY CERTIFIED FOR CANADA.
I hope it helps to better understand why the WARNINGS TEXT ONLY (when
required) shall be in English AND French.
Respectfully yours,
Constantin
Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng.
DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD.
3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2
CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA
e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com
Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568
Fax: 905 760 3020
-Original Message-
From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:24 AM
To: 'Carpentier Kristiaan'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada
Carpentier,
UL does not require that language be in French and English for units
carrying the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling
and Packaging Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I
suggest you get a copy and adhere to the rules.
I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on
its' label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning
marking on it.
Regards,
This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If
you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate,
distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you
received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the
message and its attachments to the sender.
PETER S. MERGUERIAN
Technical Director
I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd.
26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211
Or Yehuda 60251, Israel
Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019
Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175
http://www.itl.co.il
http://www.i-spec.com
-Original Message-
From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:37 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Marking Languages for Canada
Hello group,
A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power
supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada.
Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL
marking with C and US.
The warning marking on the power supply is only in english.
Question:
Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the
product is sold in Canada?
If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if
there is an approval for US+Canada?
Thanks for your answers.
Kris Carpentier
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
UL60950 third addition (bi-national standard CSA950/UL 60950) (I'm working out of an older standard) I believe UL does require it, but as Rich pointed out it isn't always followed up, and II think is somewhat vague about it, intentionally I imagine. To be very specific about it one would have to know what countries the equipment will be installed in? Often the manufacturer doesn't know, or if they do initially that is subject to change. If you can't control the export then do you require warnings in Malayalam (Southern India I believe), Arabic, Japanese, Chinese, (which dialect). ad nausium. How about those countries where UL 60950 has no real standing. I think EN60950 has the same clauses and they are no more illuminating. 1.7.12 Language Instructions and equipment marking related to safety shall be in a language which is acceptable in the country in which the equipment is to be installed. (Depending on who you ask in Canada you will get a different definition of acceptable language. I believe in some parts even the order of the languages and the relative size of the wording between languages can be problematic - but that comes more from watching news programs that experience.) Note 1 documentation intended for use only by service personnel is permitted to be in the English language only. Note 2 - In Germany, safety related information also for service personnel has to be in the German Language (the amendments spell this out more clearly - Gary) I have always been a little confused by note 1, most often they are the ones to whom the warning information is the most important. Seems they should be able to read it. Table NAA.1 identifies some possible markings that could appear on the power supply such as 1.7.6 which discusses fuse replacement in user serviceable locations. This table provides and interesting note in 3.6, which depending on your interpretation applies to only paragraph 3.6 or to any warnings. Alternately, the wording can be replaced by the ! (in a triangle) symbol on the product if the specified wording appears in the installation instructions. So much for word from Spokane, Washington. Gary -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 2:24 AM To: 'Carpentier Kristiaan'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada Carpentier, UL does not require that language be in French and English for units carrying the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling and Packaging Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I suggest you get a copy and adhere to the rules. I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on its' label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning marking on it. Regards, This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il <http://www.itl.co.il/> http://www.i-spec.com <http://www.i-spec.com/> -Original Message- From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:37 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Marking Languages for Canada Hello group, A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL marking with C and US. The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. Question: Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the product is sold in Canada? If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if there is an approval for US+Canada? Thanks for your answers. Kris Carpentier
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
Dear Peter, In my opinion, your statement is not 100% accurate and thus, it may confuse some of our colleagues. The subject is MARKING related to WARNINGS when we are discussing CERTIFIED POWER SUPPLIES (Direct Plug-In for Canada), and thus, we shall consider the CERTIFICATION requirements for CANADA. In this particular situation described by Kris, the applicable CANADIAN Standard is CAN CSA C22.2. No.223-M91. In regard to the required MARKING (label) the above mentioned Standard (223) specifies that: the WARNING(S) (if are required by different Clauses) the WARNING(S) [ONLY the TEXT OF THE WARNINGS !], MUST APPEAR ON the MARKING LABEL IN both LANGUAGES, in English AND French. There are 3(three) possible WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) which may be required - depending of the environment, wiring, and field of application. These WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) shall appear ONLY IF ARE REQUIRED (e.g.: see Clause 4.13.3 which makes references to the MARKING Clause 5.2., etc...), and thus I assume that you did not see those on a DIRECT PLUG-IN POWER SUPPLY CERTIFIED FOR CANADA. I hope it helps to better understand why the WARNINGS TEXT ONLY (when required) shall be in English AND French. Respectfully yours, Constantin Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng. DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD. 3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2 CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568 Fax: 905 760 3020 -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:24 AM To: 'Carpentier Kristiaan'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada Carpentier, UL does not require that language be in French and English for units carrying the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling and Packaging Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I suggest you get a copy and adhere to the rules. I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on its' label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning marking on it. Regards, This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il <http://www.itl.co.il/> http://www.i-spec.com <http://www.i-spec.com/> -Original Message- From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:37 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Marking Languages for Canada Hello group, A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL marking with C and US. The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. Question: Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the product is sold in Canada? If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if there is an approval for US+Canada? Thanks for your answers. Kris Carpentier
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
Carpentier, UL does not require that language be in French and English for units carrying the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling and Packaging Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I suggest you get a copy and adhere to the rules. I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on its' label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning marking on it. Regards, This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il <http://www.itl.co.il/> http://www.i-spec.com <http://www.i-spec.com/> -Original Message- From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:37 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Marking Languages for Canada Hello group, A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL marking with C and US. The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. Question: Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the product is sold in Canada? If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if there is an approval for US+Canada? Thanks for your answers. Kris Carpentier
Re: Marking Languages for Canada
If the product is being marketed in the US and Canada, then the markings should be in both French and English. There are actually only two Provinces in Canada that require the markings to be in French, but why bother with such distinction? UL made a decision some time ago that the enforcement of this would not be part of the UL investigation, and would instead be the responsibility of the manufacturer. Greg Galluccio www.productapprovals.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re: Marking Languages for Canada
Hi Kris: > The markings on the power supply are: (also as per UL file) > Date code > model number > electrical ratings > "Class 2 transformer" > > The additional markings are: > "CAUTION", "Risk of electric shock" and "Dry location use only" and "Do not > expose to liquid, vapor, or rain" > > As I said before: only in english, not in french, but approved for: > - UL1310, 4th ed. 1994 , including revisions through April 4th, 2000 and > - CAN CSA C22.2. No. 223 > by UL and having the C UL US logo. > > As I understand from some people: I am allowed to import my product with > this power supply in the US but not in Canada. > Is this interpretation still correct? > If YES, I'm probably one of the many mftr's in this nice situation. Having checked the Official Languages Act, Consumer Packaging and Labelling Act, Consumer Packaging and Labelling Regulations, Standards Council of Canada, I have concluded that the language requirement is imposed by CSA in their the standard, CAN CSA C22.2 No. 223. As near as I can tell, none of the above references requires a product warning be marked in both official languages. (However, the product identifier must be marked in both French and English, at least on the packaging.) Based on the information so far, my guess is that UL overlooked the language requirement of 223. Having said that, Kris asks about importation into Canada. The cUL mark qualifies the product for importation. The fact that UL *may* have made an error in evaluating the power supply against the standard does not negate the requirement that the unit be certified. All we can say is that an error *may* have been done in the evaluation. I don't believe the issue is importation, but connection to the public power network. The local hydro authorities are the folks who require safety certification of electrical equipment. I'm not sure that the hydro authorities have control over Canadian customs for inspection of cert marks. I know that not all electrical equipment is required to be safety certified. If you are looking for advice as to what action you should take... I would notify the power supply manufacturer that UL *may* have made an error in that 233 requires warning markings be in both French and English. I would ask them to verify that with UL, and take any corrective action that may come from such an inquiry. In the meantime, I would import the units into Canada as the units do have the correct safety certification mark. I feel it is important to separate the issues so that they can be dealt with. I would not self- impose a no-import position based on our/your reading of the requirements. If you were not familiar with the language rules, and only familiar with the certification rules, then the unit is certified and is acceptable in Canada. This is really no different than a constructional error that might exist within the power supply where you could not see it. I suggest you ask the question of your supplier, and load the monkey onto his back. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
To All, For clarification: The markings on the power supply are: (also as per UL file) Date code model number electrical ratings "Class 2 transformer" The additional markings are: "CAUTION", "Risk of electric shock" and "Dry location use only" and "Do not expose to liquid, vapor, or rain" As I said before: only in english, not in french, but approved for: - UL1310, 4th ed. 1994 , including revisions through April 4th, 2000 and - CAN CSA C22.2. No. 223 by UL and having the C UL US logo. As I understand from some people: I am allowed to import my product with this power supply in the US but not in Canada. Is this interpretation still correct? If YES, I'm probably one of the many mftr's in this nice situation. Regards, Kris -Original Message- From: Constantin Bolintineanu [mailto:cbolintine...@dsc.com] Sent: donderdag 1 augustus 2002 21:09 To: 'Rich Nute'; carpenti...@thmulti.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada Dear Colleagues, As Mat Aschenberg specified clearly , it is a requirement of the applicable Standard; (in this situation it is CAN CSA C22.2. No. 223-M91). It specifies under the Clause 5, MARKING , item 5. 2 as follows: "the following WARNINGS or equivalent, when applicable,, shall appear on the power supply a, b, c...each warning shall appear in English and French (WARNING followed by the proposed text in English and AVERTISSEMENT ...followed by the proposed text in French). The fact that Rich did not see the WARNINGS, I assume that is due to the fact that on those PS which he used, the WARNINGS were Not Applicable. I hope it helps. I understood that Kris observed on the PS a WARNING in English ONLY, which does not fulfil all of the applicable requirements of the used Standard. Respectfully yours, Constantin Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng. DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD. 3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2 CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568 Fax: 905 760 3020 -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:36 AM To: carpenti...@thmulti.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Marking Languages for Canada Hi Kris: > A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power > supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. > Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL > marking with C and US. > The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. > Question: > Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the > product is sold in Canada? > If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if > there is an approval for US+Canada? Your question generates a number of questions: 1) Is the warning marking required by the applicable standard, or did the manufacturer voluntarily apply the warning? (We, too, use UL/cUL direct-plug-in power supplies. To my recollection, there are no warnings on our power supplies. So, I question whether or not the warning is required by the standard.) 2) Is the warning marking required by the US standard? If yes, then the warning is for the US and not for Canada. 3) Is the warning marking required by the Canadian standard? If yes, then does the standard require the warning marking to be in French? In my experience with UL, UL requires compliance to the standard. If the standard does not require a specific language, then UL does not require a specific language. If language is a requirement of a national law (and not a standard), then compliance to that law applies to the manufacturer, not to UL. UL does not require compliance to national laws of countries other than the USA. However, when UL is aware of a law that might specify requirements in addition to those in the standard, UL will call this to the attention of the manufacturer, usually by letter. This is a very common UL practice, especially when UL issues a CB Report. The cover letter to the CB Report will often mention that the language of the instruction manual, for example, was not evaluated. The cover letter will state something to the effect that certain countries may require the language of the manual to be the local langauge. (To my knowledge, IEC standards do not specify language except in the very broadest terms, e.g., the language of a warning must be in a language acceptable to country authorities.) Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: u
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
Hello Constantin, I just wanted to let the group know that this was verified with CSA earlier today. It is also important to point out the it is not a requirement for bilingualism on the cert. label, only on cautions and warnings as called out in the standards. Best regards, Garry Hojan CEO/ President Strategic Compliance Services (SCS) a Division of NRL, L.L.C. 11402 E Mariposa Rd. Stockton, CA 95215 Tel:209-465-0619 Fax:209-812-1931 Mobile: 209-662-4322 Email: gho...@regulatory-compliance.com Web:www.regulatory-compliance.com -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Constantin Bolintineanu Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:09 PM To: 'Rich Nute'; carpenti...@thmulti.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada Dear Colleagues, As Mat Aschenberg specified clearly , it is a requirement of the applicable Standard; (in this situation it is CAN CSA C22.2. No. 223-M91). It specifies under the Clause 5, MARKING , item 5. 2 as follows: "the following WARNINGS or equivalent, when applicable,, shall appear on the power supply a, b, c...each warning shall appear in English and French (WARNING followed by the proposed text in English and AVERTISSEMENT ...followed by the proposed text in French). The fact that Rich did not see the WARNINGS, I assume that is due to the fact that on those PS which he used, the WARNINGS were Not Applicable. I hope it helps. I understood that Kris observed on the PS a WARNING in English ONLY, which does not fulfil all of the applicable requirements of the used Standard. Respectfully yours, Constantin Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng. DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD. 3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2 CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568 Fax: 905 760 3020 -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:36 AM To: carpenti...@thmulti.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Marking Languages for Canada Hi Kris: > A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power > supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. > Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL > marking with C and US. > The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. > Question: > Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the > product is sold in Canada? > If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if > there is an approval for US+Canada? Your question generates a number of questions: 1) Is the warning marking required by the applicable standard, or did the manufacturer voluntarily apply the warning? (We, too, use UL/cUL direct-plug-in power supplies. To my recollection, there are no warnings on our power supplies. So, I question whether or not the warning is required by the standard.) 2) Is the warning marking required by the US standard? If yes, then the warning is for the US and not for Canada. 3) Is the warning marking required by the Canadian standard? If yes, then does the standard require the warning marking to be in French? In my experience with UL, UL requires compliance to the standard. If the standard does not require a specific language, then UL does not require a specific language. If language is a requirement of a national law (and not a standard), then compliance to that law applies to the manufacturer, not to UL. UL does not require compliance to national laws of countries other than the USA. However, when UL is aware of a law that might specify requirements in addition to those in the standard, UL will call this to the attention of the manufacturer, usually by letter. This is a very common UL practice, especially when UL issues a CB Report. The cover letter to the CB Report will often mention that the language of the instruction manual, for example, was not evaluated. The cover letter will state something to the effect that certain countries may require the language of the manual to be the local langauge. (To my knowledge, IEC standards do not specify language except in the very broadest terms, e.g., the language of a warning must be in a language acceptable to country authorities.) Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For poli
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
Dear Colleagues, As Mat Aschenberg specified clearly , it is a requirement of the applicable Standard; (in this situation it is CAN CSA C22.2. No. 223-M91). It specifies under the Clause 5, MARKING , item 5. 2 as follows: "the following WARNINGS or equivalent, when applicable,, shall appear on the power supply a, b, c...each warning shall appear in English and French (WARNING followed by the proposed text in English and AVERTISSEMENT ...followed by the proposed text in French). The fact that Rich did not see the WARNINGS, I assume that is due to the fact that on those PS which he used, the WARNINGS were Not Applicable. I hope it helps. I understood that Kris observed on the PS a WARNING in English ONLY, which does not fulfil all of the applicable requirements of the used Standard. Respectfully yours, Constantin Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng. DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD. 3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2 CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568 Fax: 905 760 3020 -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:36 AM To: carpenti...@thmulti.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Marking Languages for Canada Hi Kris: > A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power > supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. > Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL > marking with C and US. > The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. > Question: > Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the > product is sold in Canada? > If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if > there is an approval for US+Canada? Your question generates a number of questions: 1) Is the warning marking required by the applicable standard, or did the manufacturer voluntarily apply the warning? (We, too, use UL/cUL direct-plug-in power supplies. To my recollection, there are no warnings on our power supplies. So, I question whether or not the warning is required by the standard.) 2) Is the warning marking required by the US standard? If yes, then the warning is for the US and not for Canada. 3) Is the warning marking required by the Canadian standard? If yes, then does the standard require the warning marking to be in French? In my experience with UL, UL requires compliance to the standard. If the standard does not require a specific language, then UL does not require a specific language. If language is a requirement of a national law (and not a standard), then compliance to that law applies to the manufacturer, not to UL. UL does not require compliance to national laws of countries other than the USA. However, when UL is aware of a law that might specify requirements in addition to those in the standard, UL will call this to the attention of the manufacturer, usually by letter. This is a very common UL practice, especially when UL issues a CB Report. The cover letter to the CB Report will often mention that the language of the instruction manual, for example, was not evaluated. The cover letter will state something to the effect that certain countries may require the language of the manual to be the local langauge. (To my knowledge, IEC standards do not specify language except in the very broadest terms, e.g., the language of a warning must be in a language acceptable to country authorities.) Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Marking Languages for Canada
Hi Kris: > A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power > supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. > Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL > marking with C and US. > The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. > Question: > Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the > product is sold in Canada? > If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if > there is an approval for US+Canada? Your question generates a number of questions: 1) Is the warning marking required by the applicable standard, or did the manufacturer voluntarily apply the warning? (We, too, use UL/cUL direct-plug-in power supplies. To my recollection, there are no warnings on our power supplies. So, I question whether or not the warning is required by the standard.) 2) Is the warning marking required by the US standard? If yes, then the warning is for the US and not for Canada. 3) Is the warning marking required by the Canadian standard? If yes, then does the standard require the warning marking to be in French? In my experience with UL, UL requires compliance to the standard. If the standard does not require a specific language, then UL does not require a specific language. If language is a requirement of a national law (and not a standard), then compliance to that law applies to the manufacturer, not to UL. UL does not require compliance to national laws of countries other than the USA. However, when UL is aware of a law that might specify requirements in addition to those in the standard, UL will call this to the attention of the manufacturer, usually by letter. This is a very common UL practice, especially when UL issues a CB Report. The cover letter to the CB Report will often mention that the language of the instruction manual, for example, was not evaluated. The cover letter will state something to the effect that certain countries may require the language of the manual to be the local langauge. (To my knowledge, IEC standards do not specify language except in the very broadest terms, e.g., the language of a warning must be in a language acceptable to country authorities.) Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
Doug's process is the same one we use. I would just make one small point. The Canadian IC03(?) version of the FCC warnings must be in French and I have always understood that it must be on the product as does the FCC warnings. Gary -Original Message- From: douglas_beckw...@mitel.com [mailto:douglas_beckw...@mitel.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 5:23 AM To: Carpentier Kristiaan Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Marking Languages for Canada Hi Kristiaan, If you look at 60950, you are only required to mark your products in a language which is acceptable in the country which it is being sold. In the national deviations there are some specific countries, such as Germany, who specify that safety instructions be in their particular country. To get to the specifics of your question. Canada has two official languages, English and Canadian French and either is acceptable. If we marked our product in french only, it would not be acceptable in the US, so because of the limited space on labels, we generally mark our North American products in English only on the label and have the other languges (English, French and Spanish)in the user guide. We do it purely for marketing reasons (I'm not going to bore you with the details of the french language debate here in Canada). In your scenario, a product that has a cULus marking with markings in English only is legal in both countries. Regards Doug Beckwith Carpentier Kristiaan @majordomo.ieee.org on 08/01/2002 05:37:07 AM Please respond to Carpentier Kristiaan Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Marking Languages for Canada Hello group, A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL marking with C and US. The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. Question: Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the product is sold in Canada? If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if there is an approval for US+Canada? Thanks for your answers. Kris Carpentier --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list" --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
RE: Marking Languages for Canada
Kris, It is a requirement, and customs can hold the shipments if they find it. UL does a poor job of checking the markings for both languages. Many manufacturers of CUL (Canadian UL) listed products are not aware that dual language markings are a requirement for Canada. It is a requirement, and customs can hold the shipments if they find it. Mat Aschenberg > -Original Message- > From: Carpentier Kristiaan [SMTP:carpenti...@thmulti.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:37 AM > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: Marking Languages for Canada > > Hello group, > > A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power > supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. > Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL > marking with C and US. > The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. > Question: > Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the > product is sold in Canada? > If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if > there is an approval for US+Canada? > > Thanks for your answers. > Kris Carpentier --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Re: Marking Languages for Canada
Hi Kristiaan, If you look at 60950, you are only required to mark your products in a language which is acceptable in the country which it is being sold. In the national deviations there are some specific countries, such as Germany, who specify that safety instructions be in their particular country. To get to the specifics of your question. Canada has two official languages, English and Canadian French and either is acceptable. If we marked our product in french only, it would not be acceptable in the US, so because of the limited space on labels, we generally mark our North American products in English only on the label and have the other languges (English, French and Spanish)in the user guide. We do it purely for marketing reasons (I'm not going to bore you with the details of the french language debate here in Canada). In your scenario, a product that has a cULus marking with markings in English only is legal in both countries. Regards Doug Beckwith Carpentier Kristiaan @majordomo.ieee.org on 08/01/2002 05:37:07 AM Please respond to Carpentier Kristiaan Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Marking Languages for Canada Hello group, A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL marking with C and US. The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. Question: Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the product is sold in Canada? If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if there is an approval for US+Canada? Thanks for your answers. Kris Carpentier --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
Marking Languages for Canada
Hello group, A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL marking with C and US. The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. Question: Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the product is sold in Canada? If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if there is an approval for US+Canada? Thanks for your answers. Kris Carpentier
