Re: [Emc-users] IRAMS
2012/2/11 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 11 February 2012 18:04, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: Andy, I recall seeing a picture from you with a blown IRAMS. I'm hoping to order some, but I would like to learn what I can before hooking them up. Do you have any on-line notes or other material covering your experience with the IRAMS or similar modules? No, though there are some notes on the International Rectifier site. I have made a start on a LinuxCNC-aimed circuit board, though so far that is only as far along as a schematic in gEDA awaiting a PCB footprint :-) Some application notes are here: www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/an-1095.pdf I also find this build pretty educational. This guy has posted also his schemes: http://blog.hardcore.lt/mic/ I just do not get, why did he put those large pull-up/pull-down resistors and why di he include additional inductive loads in his design. I wrote that guy, asking about those inductive loads, but have not received answer. Maybe the question was consider as dumb (and treated as spam). :)) Anders Wallin has some stuff on his site. Could You point out some links? I did not find anything motor drive related in his site. I specifically looked for anything tagged as electronics: http://www.anderswallin.net/tag/electronics/ Viesturs -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] IRAMS
On 12 February 2012 08:46, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Could You point out some links? I did not find anything motor drive related in his site. http://www.anderswallin.net/2006/06/first-steps-with-brushless-servodrive-microchip-dspic-irf-irams/ -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] IRAMS
On 12 February 2012 08:46, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: I just do not get, why did he put those large pull-up/pull-down resistors He mentions at the beginning that these are a good idea, but I am not sure why. It is possibly to ensure that the PWM inputs are very solidly high or low to eliminate cross-conduction or strange effects if the PWM generator is not active. and why di he include additional inductive loads in his design These are an output filter, as described here: http://www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/an-1095.pdf -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] IRAMS
2012/2/12 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 12 February 2012 08:46, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Could You point out some links? I did not find anything motor drive related in his site. http://www.anderswallin.net/2006/06/first-steps-with-brushless-servodrive-microchip-dspic-irf-irams/ Thank You! I took a quick look there and it seems that there is interesting reading to take place. But I have to leave now to visit grandmother on her birthday. Viesturs -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Back to taskset usage ramifications
On 2/11/2012 3:25 PM, gene heskett wrote: Greetings all; Sorta one of those days to hibernate, 3 of snow blowing all over, 19F etc in north central WV today. So I'm sitting here with a couple ssh sessions going to that box, motor power off etc. I found that installing ksysguard give me a remote system monitoring facility, and am hoping its not lying to me. My base_thread is 20,000 now, which would I would think, show up as several percent of the 2nd cpu, the red line in the ksysguard system tabs display. When linuxcnc isn't running, I see, possibly at 10 second intervals, a barely visible spike to perhaps 0.5%, with isolcpus=1 in effect I've no clue what that might be. With linuxcnc running (without the taskset launch), and carving the logo, I see an occasional spike to perhaps 2% at about that same 10 second interval. And a spike to maybe 5% if I do something in axis like adjust the feed override slider. With a 20 microsecond base thread, and a 3 microsecond reset timing set in the .hal file, ISTM that core 2's usage should be higher that that. I do see in this utilities process list, an 'rtkit' that is caught using 2 or 3% very occasionally. And the hal_manual_tool_change shows up too. Keyboard response from here of course includes the network lags, but seems good enough that at a .28ipm jog rate, I can jog it half a thou with a quick tap on an arrow key. This, with a 30 microsecond base thread on the old machine, would not have been possible because it would run on for several seconds after the key was released. Whether I get the same results from its local keyboard remains to be seen and may be the result of running axis on a remote display not burning cpu cycles for the local display since this boxes nvidia driven display is probably 20x faster than that machines intel based display is. From this I get the impression that an additional box with good gfx might be a huge advantage even if the network cable was only 6 feet long. Discussion? Am I using the wrong tools to track this? In which case what tool should I be using? Thanks and Cheers, Gene Gene, About tracking that occasional blip on the isolcpu, have you used atop? Consider it a top on steroids. It shows processes running much like top, but also displays what cpu they are running on. Here's the atop web site: http://www.atoptool.nl Click on the screen shots and take a peek at what atop has over the top utility. I use it at work. Mark -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] question on gcode parsing
Hi everyone, I have followed the discussion so far with interest. I personally view gcodes as a very low level language. I guess the addition of owords goes some way towards improving things. My ideal would be an object based language for describing the geometry etc of path generation. But my real reason for commenting is to ask a question. Is it possible (i.e could be done reasonably quickly and fairly simply!!) to change emc so that motion processors became a plugin (in the same way that eclipse has plugins)? In that way emc could come with the standard plugin to transcribe current gcode text files into motion commands but would allow others to write (if they felt inclined) python plugins, sophisticated Gcode parsers or APT360 parsers etc. I suspect the quick answer is no as it would require some very radical changes to emc's structure, but it would to me be an interesting development but then again I am a retired hobbyist with a computing background. So my question is really about allowing extensibility in the future. I do not think that I am talking here about filters which to my limited understanding are something like a macro facility. Have I got that right or are they more than that? My visualization of a postprocessor plugin is that it would take a file as input and would output a sequence of low level emc-library motion commands, so would require that these basic motion commands be made explicit and publicly accessible. I dont know how this would fit in with displays such as Axis and with kinetics modules but suspect that these could work at the lower level motion commands. If adding plugins is already possible please excuse my ignorance and point me to how that is possible. Thanks Alan -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] LiveCD
Hi I downloaded and burnt a CD of 2.4.6 and popped it into a windows machine to have a look at it But... (I think) I can't actually run EMC because it wants to install a stepper config file on the drive, which I assume is a bad idea because it has windows on it. The only options I have are OK or Cancel How come there is no No? I got the same thing with a few of machine configs I chose. Regards Roland -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD
On 12 February 2012 14:02, Roland Jollivet roland.jolli...@gmail.com wrote: I downloaded and burnt a CD of 2.4.6 and popped it into a windows machine to have a look at it But... (I think) I can't actually run EMC because it wants to install a stepper config file on the drive, which I assume is a bad idea because it has windows on it. If it can manage to do so, it probably won't matter, it is a small directory. In practice it probably won't find anywhere to put it, whether it then gives up gracefully is an interesting question. The only options I have are OK or Cancel How come there is no No? I think that probably counts as a bug. Or at least an inelegance. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] New dialects [Was: Do CAM instead? ]
On 2/11/2012 11:13 PM, Erik Christiansen wrote: Here's Brian's post, as it came through this end of the email pipe: » » » Subject: Re: New dialects [Was: Do CAM instead? ] Yes, much more readable. The downside is that you can't do a restart at line without specifying which iteration of the outer loop to restart from. And neither the GUIs nor the runtime support that. For me, I simply go back to the oword call and rerun the particular string. I am a hobbyist so its ok for it to cut air for several passes until it gets back to the particular Z depth where it was stopped. Brian « « « All of the first three lines of text are actually a quote of Kenneth Lerman's prior post. So let's go with this understanding: On 11.02.12 11:57, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote: Before that, Kenneth Lerman wrote: Yes, much more readable. The downside is that you can't do a restart at line without specifying which iteration of the outer loop to restart from. And neither the GUIs nor the runtime support that. For me, I simply go back to the oword call and rerun the particular string. I am a hobbyist so its ok for it to cut air for several passes until it gets back to the particular Z depth where it was stopped. I'll drink to that, if we're only talking about a few passes over a short toolpath, on an amateur job. But there is a way to get the best of both worlds. A gcode filter program can unroll e.g. a 20-iteration loop programmed in the input source, so that it is passed on to LinuxCNC as 20 consecutive copies of the loop, with individual values inserted for each run. The iteration number can be added in comments, for good measure. Now we can restart at line, anywhere we choose, because AXIS isn't given any loops to deal with. I haven't yet thought through exactly how much work it is, but unrolling one loop (so there's one variable to increment and substitute) isn't too bad, except for the trick of feeding the loop gcode back through the filter again. One option is to just do it in the lexer, keeping everything within a single process. (Fortunately, flex has a mechanism we could use.) It is an interesting task, and if it is of significant use, then it's something to add to the list of things to do. Erik The right way to do it, though (IMHO), is for the system (including GUI and interpreter) to keep and display the call stack and history let you unwind at each level. Instead of looking at the linear sequence of lines that were executed, I should be able to look at the structure. Just as a debugger lets me step into a subroutine or over a subroutine, I should be able to do this in a backwards direction from my GUI. Ken -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD
But... (I think) I can't actually run EMC because it wants to install a Install the config file on a USB key? -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] LiveCD
On 12 February 2012 16:23, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 February 2012 14:02, Roland Jollivet roland.jolli...@gmail.com wrote: I downloaded and burnt a CD of 2.4.6 and popped it into a windows machine to have a look at it But... (I think) I can't actually run EMC because it wants to install a stepper config file on the drive, which I assume is a bad idea because it has windows on it. If it can manage to do so, it probably won't matter, it is a small directory. In practice it probably won't find anywhere to put it, whether it then gives up gracefully is an interesting question. The only options I have are OK or Cancel How come there is no No? I think that probably counts as a bug. Or at least an inelegance. -- Ok, well it'll have to wait for a blank machine. I must the first person to have this problem? And this is a real linux neophyte question, but how do you power down without pulling the plug? Regards Roland -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD
On Feb 12, 2012, at 11:15 AM, Stephen Dubovsky wrote: But... (I think) I can't actually run EMC because it wants to install a Install the config file on a USB key? And, it is easy to create a bootable usb flashdrive for Linuxcnc LiveCD using usb-creator: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Live_USB_creator ...mainly posting this because it took me a while to find this tool Tom -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD
On Feb 12, 2012, at 11:34 AM, Roland Jollivet wrote: And this is a real linux neophyte question, but how do you power down without pulling the plug? There is a little symbol in the top right tool bar on the Ubuntu screen which looks like a circle with a vertical line passing though it (same symbol as on the power button on my Mac, and probably many other devices these days). Select that and you can restart, shutdown, etc. Also, depending on how you have your motherboard wired up, you can press the button that is connected to the MB reset pins and this will give you that same on screen selection for restart/shutdown... Or you can open a terminal and type shutdown (or reboot) Tom -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD
On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 16:02 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote: Hi I downloaded and burnt a CD of 2.4.6 and popped it into a windows machine to have a look at it But... (I think) I can't actually run EMC because it wants to install a stepper config file on the drive, which I assume is a bad idea because it has windows on it. The only options I have are OK or Cancel How come there is no No? I got the same thing with a few of machine configs I chose. Regards Roland I think what you are getting is when you start LinuCNC, a notice comes up and presents a list of configurations from the sample library. Since these are sample files, it is best not to change them directly, but to make a copy so you can edit the copy if needed. To promote this, the configuration selector offers to copy the file for you straight off the bat. When you boot the LIveCD, Ubuntu creates a RAMdisk (or similar) and this becomes your working drive, the configuration copy and other changes are stored here and go away when you turn Ubuntu Off. In Live mode, there should not be any other disks mounted, so nothing of the original Windows system should be in danger of being changed. You can, if you want mount your Widows drive, but it isn't mounted normally when the LiveCD loads. While exiting the Live session, an offer to save the changes on the RAMdisk is made. If desired, you can mount a removable drive, save your changes, then reuse them on the next session. Bottom line though, the original hard disk will not be touched. If you want to see what is mounted, from the desktop, click on Applications, then Accessories, then Terminal. In terminal, type in mount and press Enter. A list of mounted objects should be presented. Hard disks usually start with /dev/sda with a number appended that designates the partition number. sda represents SCSI Disk A -- SCSI being a hold over from the old days. sdb would be a second disk drive. To get out of the terminal type the command exit then Enter. This also can be done graphically using System / Administration / Disk Utility. This should show the disks Ubuntu knows about, and allow you to mount or unmount them as needed. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD
On 12 February 2012 19:25, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 16:02 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote: Hi I downloaded and burnt a CD of 2.4.6 and popped it into a windows machine to have a look at it But... (I think) I can't actually run EMC because it wants to install a stepper config file on the drive, which I assume is a bad idea because it has windows on it. The only options I have are OK or Cancel How come there is no No? I got the same thing with a few of machine configs I chose. Regards Roland I think what you are getting is when you start LinuCNC, a notice comes up and presents a list of configurations from the sample library. Since these are sample files, it is best not to change them directly, but to make a copy so you can edit the copy if needed. To promote this, the configuration selector offers to copy the file for you straight off the bat. When you boot the LIveCD, Ubuntu creates a RAMdisk (or similar) and this becomes your working drive, the configuration copy and other changes are stored here and go away when you turn Ubuntu Off. In Live mode, there should not be any other disks mounted, so nothing of the original Windows system should be in danger of being changed. You can, if you want mount your Widows drive, but it isn't mounted normally when the LiveCD loads. While exiting the Live session, an offer to save the changes on the RAMdisk is made. If desired, you can mount a removable drive, save your changes, then reuse them on the next session. Bottom line though, the original hard disk will not be touched. If you want to see what is mounted, from the desktop, click on Applications, then Accessories, then Terminal. In terminal, type in mount and press Enter. A list of mounted objects should be presented. Hard disks usually start with /dev/sda with a number appended that designates the partition number. sda represents SCSI Disk A -- SCSI being a hold over from the old days. sdb would be a second disk drive. To get out of the terminal type the command exit then Enter. This also can be done graphically using System / Administration / Disk Utility. This should show the disks Ubuntu knows about, and allow you to mount or unmount them as needed. -- Kirk Wallace OK, thanks. Will try that. Regards Roland -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] question on gcode parsing
Hi Alan, that is an interesting idea. from the interpreter perspective there's in principle no issue why some other language couldnt emit canon calls just alike; possible (with a lot of work) note that other parts of linuxcnc have some assumptions about the language, for instance the UI's - not just from the input language, but also features like UI startup, and backend issues like run-from-line, and those assumptions arent spelled out in some spec - you're off to reading code that said, dropping rs274ngc as a language from the scene completely is going to break a lot of corners of linuxcnc, and IMV its not desirable to start with however, I think it possible with limited effort to have a second language basically besides rs274ngc; this would require some minor adaptation of a UI to understand that there's more than one language to execute (as a file, and 'MDI', if you will) and default would be rs274ngc. It is IMV the only realistic migration scenario because it can be done incrementally. flatly the more discussion I read about *designing* a new language, the less I see the point - it would be IMV useless work in building from scratch a new language with stepping, breakpoints, state model, introspection etc and arrive on something less that whats alreday out there in existing other interpreted languages. What I can image is taking an existing interpreter, say Python, and make it understand G-code in some shape or form, and that would call on the existing rs274ngc interpreter. Maybe as a subroutine to start with. You want g-code, well execute that. You want arbitrary data types, external packages, advanced control flow - use Python and fall back to rs274ngc where it makes sense. Given that, one can build arbitrary other languages ontop of Python - there's a lot of tools, packages and experience out there in doing that; training the rs274ngc pony to do the same trick isnt going anywhere. IMV this is all about vehicles, not language preferences. If you have a decent vehicle, you dont have to bother somebody else with your language preferences, just go build it and be done with it, instead of having yet another round of academic discussions in which-language-looks-better-today. Yes, plugins are the stuff which makes projects successful. HAL for instance is one very sucessful plugin mechanism. Comp is another one. We dont have anything of that ontop the language and task executor, and few on the UI side of things and *within* rs274ngc. To clarify: with plugins I mean end-user/integrator extensible, not C/TCL-developer extensible. That's just too much of a minority issue. Yes, filters are glorified macros with all the downsides, I dont count them as plugins. - Michael Am 12.02.2012 um 14:03 schrieb Alan: Hi everyone, I have followed the discussion so far with interest. I personally view gcodes as a very low level language. I guess the addition of owords goes some way towards improving things. My ideal would be an object based language for describing the geometry etc of path generation. But my real reason for commenting is to ask a question. Is it possible (i.e could be done reasonably quickly and fairly simply!!) to change emc so that motion processors became a plugin (in the same way that eclipse has plugins)? In that way emc could come with the standard plugin to transcribe current gcode text files into motion commands but would allow others to write (if they felt inclined) python plugins, sophisticated Gcode parsers or APT360 parsers etc. I suspect the quick answer is no as it would require some very radical changes to emc's structure, but it would to me be an interesting development but then again I am a retired hobbyist with a computing background. So my question is really about allowing extensibility in the future. I do not think that I am talking here about filters which to my limited understanding are something like a macro facility. Have I got that right or are they more than that? My visualization of a postprocessor plugin is that it would take a file as input and would output a sequence of low level emc-library motion commands, so would require that these basic motion commands be made explicit and publicly accessible. I dont know how this would fit in with displays such as Axis and with kinetics modules but suspect that these could work at the lower level motion commands. If adding plugins is already possible please excuse my ignorance and point me to how that is possible. Thanks Alan -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list
Re: [Emc-users] Back to taskset usage ramifications
On Sunday, February 12, 2012 12:11:09 PM Mark Wendt (Contractor) did opine: On 2/11/2012 3:25 PM, gene heskett wrote: Greetings all; Sorta one of those days to hibernate, 3 of snow blowing all over, 19F etc in north central WV today. So I'm sitting here with a couple ssh sessions going to that box, motor power off etc. I found that installing ksysguard give me a remote system monitoring facility, and am hoping its not lying to me. My base_thread is 20,000 now, which would I would think, show up as several percent of the 2nd cpu, the red line in the ksysguard system tabs display. When linuxcnc isn't running, I see, possibly at 10 second intervals, a barely visible spike to perhaps 0.5%, with isolcpus=1 in effect I've no clue what that might be. With linuxcnc running (without the taskset launch), and carving the logo, I see an occasional spike to perhaps 2% at about that same 10 second interval. And a spike to maybe 5% if I do something in axis like adjust the feed override slider. With a 20 microsecond base thread, and a 3 microsecond reset timing set in the .hal file, ISTM that core 2's usage should be higher that that. I do see in this utilities process list, an 'rtkit' that is caught using 2 or 3% very occasionally. And the hal_manual_tool_change shows up too. Keyboard response from here of course includes the network lags, but seems good enough that at a .28ipm jog rate, I can jog it half a thou with a quick tap on an arrow key. This, with a 30 microsecond base thread on the old machine, would not have been possible because it would run on for several seconds after the key was released. Whether I get the same results from its local keyboard remains to be seen and may be the result of running axis on a remote display not burning cpu cycles for the local display since this boxes nvidia driven display is probably 20x faster than that machines intel based display is. From this I get the impression that an additional box with good gfx might be a huge advantage even if the network cable was only 6 feet long. Discussion? Am I using the wrong tools to track this? In which case what tool should I be using? Thanks and Cheers, Gene Gene, About tracking that occasional blip on the isolcpu, have you used atop? Consider it a top on steroids. It shows processes running much like top, but also displays what cpu they are running on. Here's the atop web site: http://www.atoptool.nl Click on the screen shots and take a peek at what atop has over the top utility. I use it at work. Mark This prompted me to do a little more experimenting between running it as lcnc, which is a script that does the taskset, and running it as linuxcnc which does not. Then either way atop did not detect enough activity on the 2nd cpu to bother listing it more than 5% of the time. In that regard, htop, which displays each cpu it is configured for, full time as a slider in the upper area of its screen. To me, htop is the better utility, but then I am used to it and have been using it for years on this box full time. ksysguard OTOH used for the rest of this testing, showed a higher cpu usage overall for both cpu's and cpu001 was consistently in the 50-60% range when taskset was in effect, and about a 20% less total when it was not, only with possibly an 8% peak for #1 while it was running a 20 minute program with the motors off. Which of these two monitors utils is correct, I'll have to plead the 5th on as I don't have a clue. Then I thought I'd see how fast I can run the base thread, starting to hit realtime delays when taskset was used at about 17 microseconds, and pretty consistently at 14 microseconds, and when taskset was not used, I could go down another microsecond, perhaps 2. Without taskset, and at 19 microseconds, it has now run that 20 minute program 3 times without a delay warning thrown. This of course is without the local and slower gfx delays that relatively poor intel gfx chip will cause when it is using its own X to display the axis output. Hooking up my lappy, and ssh-ing into it so as to use the laptops gfx, probably wouldn't be quite that advantageous as its an ati gfx chipset and only a 1.4Ghz 'turion', but I'd think, until I observe otherwise, that what I'd see would be laggy gfx if the miss-match was too great. I guess what I'm saying is that in the overall scheme, using taskset isn't the magic twanger I thought it might be. The gfx in use, from this testing would seem to have the more noticeable effect. I will, very occasionally hit a realtime delay when running on its own x server local screen with a 20 microsecond base thread when using taskset. Konversation is running, but firefox is not, kcalc and update_manager are but neither of the last are using detectable cpu. When I installed atop, it started an atop daemon, but I have no
Re: [Emc-users] IRAMS
Kirk- If you scroll down to the last item on this page:http://jrkerr.com/docs.htmlyou will find a PDF to download that contains detailed documentation of an IRAMS implementation. I'm sure the power stage of the schematic would be usable as-is. -Greg From: Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com To: LinuxCNC Users List emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 12:04 PM Subject: [Emc-users] IRAMS Andy, I recall seeing a picture from you with a blown IRAMS. I'm hoping to order some, but I would like to learn what I can before hooking them up. Do you have any on-line notes or other material covering your experience with the IRAMS or similar modules? -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD
Tom's instructions are correct but remember that the EMC version of Ubuntu only does a shutdown of the OS. You will have to turn the computer off manually. From: Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD On Feb 12, 2012, at 11:34 AM, Roland Jollivet wrote: And this is a real linux neophyte question, but how do you power down without pulling the plug? There is a little symbol in the top right tool bar on the Ubuntu screen which looks like a circle with a vertical line passing though it (same symbol as on the power button on my Mac, and probably many other devices these days). Select that and you can restart, shutdown, etc. Also, depending on how you have your motherboard wired up, you can press the button that is connected to the MB reset pins and this will give you that same on screen selection for restart/shutdown... Or you can open a terminal and type shutdown (or reboot) Tom -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] IRAMS
Whoops. I messed up that link somehow. http://jrkerr.com/docs.html From: Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com To: LinuxCNC Users List emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 12:04 PM Subject: [Emc-users] IRAMS Andy, I recall seeing a picture from you with a blown IRAMS. I'm hoping to order some, but I would like to learn what I can before hooking them up. Do you have any on-line notes or other material covering your experience with the IRAMS or similar modules? -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012, Greg Bernard wrote: Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:41:07 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Bernard yankeelena2...@yahoo.com To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Tom's instructions are correct but remember that the EMC version of Ubuntu only does a shutdown of the OS. You will have to turn the computer off manually. That may be a version dependent issue. It turns off power on my 10.04/LinuxCNC 2.46/2.5 setup Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] IRAMS
On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 11:36 -0800, Greg Bernard wrote: Kirk- If you scroll down to the last item on this page:http://jrkerr.com/docs.htmlyou will find a PDF to download that contains detailed documentation of an IRAMS implementation. I'm sure the power stage of the schematic would be usable as-is. Thanks Greg. I'll study that link. BTW, I got the link to work by deleting the end up to html. And, the current LinuxCNC should power off automatically. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine
Peter Jensen and I have posted a wiki page documenting our build of a trivkins based gantry-style plasma machine running Linuxcnc with Gladevcp (as well as pyvcp), constructed over the last year. I linked the page to the User Configurations section of the main page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNCKnowledgeBase page. I hope that was the right thing to do. Comments welcome. wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine -Tom -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine
--- Peter Homann http://www.homanndesigns.com/store On Mon 13/02/12 8:29 AM , Tom Easterday wrote: - Message sent via Atmail Open - http://atmail.org/ -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
Hi Guys; I just broke my last brand new 1/16th carbide end mill in about 15 minutes running time, a 4 flute with about 1/2 of working length, trying to get started on another alu encoder wheel, getting about 80% of the way around the outside, running at 2500 revs, and 1.5 ipm, cutting only .005 deep, running in a puddle of cutting oil. Obviously the 4 flute is a no-no in soft alu as it was pushing alu ahead of itself for 90% of what it did cut which tells me it was half plugged after the first 1/2 of feed in that heavy duty (0.0037 thick) coors can alu . Filled up the flutes nearly instantly even if it was swimming in cutting oil. So, I need to find a more suitable mill for this, I assume only 1 or 2 flute, and maybe only 1/8 of working bit. Since I don't have a 10,000 rpm spindle, 2500 is it, what mill should I buy, and how fast can I feed it? Or am I doomed to go find some harder sheet alu that cuts cleaner and won't plug up a mill? Thanks. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene A man usually falls in love with a woman who asks the kinds of questions he is able to answer. -- Ronald Colman -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
I've had good luck with the high-spiral (aluminum specific) 2-flute cutters, but have not gone below 1/8 The cutters only have about 3/8 of cutting depth. Something like McMaster 8829A12? DougM On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:10 PM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Hi Guys; I just broke my last brand new 1/16th carbide end mill in about 15 minutes running time, a 4 flute with about 1/2 of working length, trying to get started on another alu encoder wheel, getting about 80% of the way around the outside, running at 2500 revs, and 1.5 ipm, cutting only .005 deep, running in a puddle of cutting oil. Obviously the 4 flute is a no-no in soft alu as it was pushing alu ahead of itself for 90% of what it did cut which tells me it was half plugged after the first 1/2 of feed in that heavy duty (0.0037 thick) coors can alu . Filled up the flutes nearly instantly even if it was swimming in cutting oil. So, I need to find a more suitable mill for this, I assume only 1 or 2 flute, and maybe only 1/8 of working bit. Since I don't have a 10,000 rpm spindle, 2500 is it, what mill should I buy, and how fast can I feed it? Or am I doomed to go find some harder sheet alu that cuts cleaner and won't plug up a mill? Thanks. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene A man usually falls in love with a woman who asks the kinds of questions he is able to answer. -- Ronald Colman -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Filters [Was: question on gcode parsing]
On 12.02.12 13:03, Alan wrote: So my question is really about allowing extensibility in the future. I do not think that I am talking here about filters which to my limited understanding are something like a macro facility. Have I got that right or are they more than that? From the Integrator Manual V2.5, 2012-02-09: » 3.2.3[FILTER] Section AXIS has the ability to send loaded files through a filter program. This filter can do any desired task: Something as simple as making sure the file ends with M2, or something as complicated as detecting whether the input is a depth image, and generating g-code to mill the shape it defines. ... This program ... must write RS274NGC code to standard output. « AIUI, that means that we could build a CAM language interpreter in the filter, so that LinuxCNC accepts input files in as high level a language as desired. Significant is that other users can happily continue to use raw gcode, and that no developer effort is required, because the existing interpreter remains unaltered. Filters are then, in effect, plug-ins which can completely redefine the input language understood by LinuxCNC, AIUI. A simple example: The unrolling of input program loops, to allow a user to start from line on any of the iterations, is an immediate practical benefit which results from decoupling the higher level input language from the executed machine language. Achieving the same result in the operator GUI is not something we have a current solution for, IIUC. My visualization of a postprocessor plugin is that it would take a file as input and would output a sequence of low level emc-library motion commands, so would require that these basic motion commands be made explicit and publicly accessible. I dont know how this would fit in with displays such as Axis and with kinetics modules but suspect that these could work at the lower level motion commands. That's how it currently works, according to the documentation. Erik -- Documentation is like sex: when it is good, it is very, very good; and when it is bad, it is better than nothing. - Dick Brandon -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
On Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:36:58 PM doug metzler did opine: I've had good luck with the high-spiral (aluminum specific) 2-flute cutters, but have not gone below 1/8 The cutters only have about 3/8 of cutting depth. Something like McMaster 8829A12? DougM I found the 1/16 version, but at $35 a copy, nope. 8515A21 is still $12.50 copy. Supposedly their best TiCN coated stuff. I'll ring up Hemlytool tomorrow see what they have. I've always gotten decent tools at a decent price from them. On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:10 PM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Hi Guys; I just broke my last brand new 1/16th carbide end mill in about 15 minutes running time, a 4 flute with about 1/2 of working length, trying to get started on another alu encoder wheel, getting about 80% of the way around the outside, running at 2500 revs, and 1.5 ipm, cutting only .005 deep, running in a puddle of cutting oil. Obviously the 4 flute is a no-no in soft alu as it was pushing alu ahead of itself for 90% of what it did cut which tells me it was half plugged after the first 1/2 of feed in that heavy duty (0.0037 thick) coors can alu . Filled up the flutes nearly instantly even if it was swimming in cutting oil. So, I need to find a more suitable mill for this, I assume only 1 or 2 flute, and maybe only 1/8 of working bit. Since I don't have a 10,000 rpm spindle, 2500 is it, what mill should I buy, and how fast can I feed it? Or am I doomed to go find some harder sheet alu that cuts cleaner and won't plug up a mill? Thanks. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene A man usually falls in love with a woman who asks the kinds of questions he is able to answer. -- Ronald Colman -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene And do you think (fop that I am) that I could be the Scarlet Pumpernickel? -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
Check out shars.com I think they have high helix 2 flute aluminum bits at pretty good prices. Also the long cutting area is why they are breaking. Get a stubby length. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
gene heskett wrote: Hi Guys; I just broke my last brand new 1/16th carbide end mill in about 15 minutes running time, a 4 flute with about 1/2 of working length, trying to get started on another alu encoder wheel, getting about 80% of the way around the outside, running at 2500 revs, and 1.5 ipm, cutting only .005 deep, running in a puddle of cutting oil. Obviously the 4 flute is a no-no in soft alu as it was pushing alu ahead of itself for 90% of what it did cut which tells me it was half plugged after the first 1/2 of feed in that heavy duty (0.0037 thick) coors can alu . Filled up the flutes nearly instantly even if it was swimming in cutting oil. So, I need to find a more suitable mill for this, I assume only 1 or 2 flute, and maybe only 1/8 of working bit. You ought to be able to do this. I use water-based coolant. The trick is to keep the WORK cold, and I do mean COLD where the cutting is going on. You should up the feed rate and/or make it in several passes, stepping down in Z each pass. 1.5 IPM is way too slow. At 2500 RPM with 4 flutes, that is 10,000 cutting edges per minute. So, each tooth is only cutting .00015, which is WAY too small. My McDonnell-Douglas slide rule suggests a .00062 feed per tooth, so that would be 6.2 IPM. You should only plunge 1/32 per pass with a 1/16 cutter (half the tool diameter). I use a 4-flute cutter in aluminum ALL the time, rarely use a 2-flute. You should be climb milling, this causes much less rubbing and therefore heat generation. Climb milling causes the cutter to plunge directly into the un-cut material, conventional milling causes the cutter to slide across the already-cut surface until there is enough pressure to penetrate it. That rubbing causes heating of the workpiece, which makes the aluminum soft. Since I don't have a 10,000 rpm spindle, 2500 is it, what mill should I buy, and how fast can I feed it? Or am I doomed to go find some harder sheet alu that cuts cleaner and won't plug up a mill? Just keep it COLD, and it will cut fine, as long as it isn't 1000 aluminum or something meant only to feed into an extruder. That's the beauty of water-based coolants, the evaporation of the water really cools stuff off. Wait, you're only cutting .005 deep per pass??? WHY? I might tend to go a bit less than half the tool diameter, but that is too conservative even for HSS, and way too conservative for carbide. If you insist on such small Z plunge, you should be cutting this at 20 IPM or something! I don't have much experience with 1/16 carbide end mills, but use 1/8carbide 4-flute mills as one of my most standard cutters for .060 - .125 aluminum panels. I frequently run a whole day on one cutter. And, I do it usually at about 2800 RPM. If the wad of aluminum around the cutter develops, you are already sunk, you have to avoid the softening of the material. Jon -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
some right angle dremel tool attachments have flat sides that can be clamped to other things. there are also air powered pencil die grinders that have been adapted as high rpm spindles. for cutting thin sheets, an exacto knife could be chucked up to use the spindle as the rotating element of a swivel knife arrangement. disengage any drive to spindle so it rotates freely, and plan the tool path so the knife point follows around like a shopping cart wheel. in certain cases, the axis movement motors are capable of providing the useful work energy without any help from a spindle motor. for example, a knurling wheel will work in a neutral spindle, letting the spindle rotate by the friction of the wheel rolling along the work surface. for cutting aluminum can material, a ball point pen run over the cut line many times against a hard backing surface will produce a breakable score. --- On Sun, 2/12/12, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: From: gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Sunday, February 12, 2012, 7:50 PM On Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:36:58 PM doug metzler did opine: I've had good luck with the high-spiral (aluminum specific) 2-flute cutters, but have not gone below 1/8 The cutters only have about 3/8 of cutting depth. Something like McMaster 8829A12? DougM I found the 1/16 version, but at $35 a copy, nope. 8515A21 is still $12.50 copy. Supposedly their best TiCN coated stuff. I'll ring up Hemlytool tomorrow see what they have. I've always gotten decent tools at a decent price from them. On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:10 PM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Hi Guys; I just broke my last brand new 1/16th carbide end mill in about 15 minutes running time, a 4 flute with about 1/2 of working length, trying to get started on another alu encoder wheel, getting about 80% of the way around the outside, running at 2500 revs, and 1.5 ipm, cutting only .005 deep, running in a puddle of cutting oil. Obviously the 4 flute is a no-no in soft alu as it was pushing alu ahead of itself for 90% of what it did cut which tells me it was half plugged after the first 1/2 of feed in that heavy duty (0.0037 thick) coors can alu . Filled up the flutes nearly instantly even if it was swimming in cutting oil. So, I need to find a more suitable mill for this, I assume only 1 or 2 flute, and maybe only 1/8 of working bit. Since I don't have a 10,000 rpm spindle, 2500 is it, what mill should I buy, and how fast can I feed it? Or am I doomed to go find some harder sheet alu that cuts cleaner and won't plug up a mill? Thanks. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene A man usually falls in love with a woman who asks the kinds of questions he is able to answer. -- Ronald Colman -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene And do you think (fop that I am) that I could be the Scarlet Pumpernickel? -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
On Monday, February 13, 2012 12:36:51 AM Dean Hedin did opine: Check out shars.com I think they have high helix 2 flute aluminum bits at pretty good prices. Also the long cutting area is why they are breaking. Get a stubby length. I Think they have them, but they refuse to show them to me as a general rule. I did find one page of 1/4 and up stuff that worked, but most of it was an empty screen at the end of the link. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene hard, adj.: The quality of your own data; also how it is to believe those of other people. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
On 02/12/2012 11:39 PM, gene heskett wrote: On Monday, February 13, 2012 12:36:51 AM Dean Hedin did opine: Check out shars.com I think they have high helix 2 flute aluminum bits at pretty good prices. Also the long cutting area is why they are breaking. Get a stubby length. I Think they have them, but they refuse to show them to me as a general rule. I did find one page of 1/4 and up stuff that worked, but most of it was an empty screen at the end of the link. Cheers, Gene I have their 2011/12 catalog, and it shows 1/8 as their smallest high helix carbide cutter. -- -Mark Ne M'oubliez ---Family Motto Hope for the best, plan for the worst ---Personal Motto -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
On Monday, February 13, 2012 12:40:45 AM Jon Elson did opine: gene heskett wrote: Hi Guys; I just broke my last brand new 1/16th carbide end mill in about 15 minutes running time, a 4 flute with about 1/2 of working length, trying to get started on another alu encoder wheel, getting about 80% of the way around the outside, running at 2500 revs, and 1.5 ipm, cutting only .005 deep, running in a puddle of cutting oil. Obviously the 4 flute is a no-no in soft alu as it was pushing alu ahead of itself for 90% of what it did cut which tells me it was half plugged after the first 1/2 of feed in that heavy duty (0.0037 thick) coors can alu . Filled up the flutes nearly instantly even if it was swimming in cutting oil. So, I need to find a more suitable mill for this, I assume only 1 or 2 flute, and maybe only 1/8 of working bit. You ought to be able to do this. I use water-based coolant. The trick is to keep the WORK cold, and I do mean COLD where the cutting is going on. You should up the feed rate and/or make it in several passes, stepping down in Z each pass. 1.5 IPM is way too slow. At 2500 RPM with 4 flutes, that is 10,000 cutting edges per minute. So, each tooth is only cutting .00015, which is WAY too small. My McDonnell-Douglas slide rule suggests a .00062 feed per tooth, so that would be 6.2 IPM. You should only plunge 1/32 per pass with a 1/16 cutter (half the tool diameter). I use a 4-flute cutter in aluminum ALL the time, rarely use a 2-flute. You should be climb milling, this causes much less rubbing and therefore heat generation. Climb milling causes the cutter to plunge directly into the un-cut material, conventional milling causes the cutter to slide across the already-cut surface until there is enough pressure to penetrate it. That rubbing causes heating of the workpiece, which makes the aluminum soft. Since I don't have a 10,000 rpm spindle, 2500 is it, what mill should I buy, and how fast can I feed it? Or am I doomed to go find some harder sheet alu that cuts cleaner and won't plug up a mill? Just keep it COLD, and it will cut fine, as long as it isn't 1000 aluminum or something meant only to feed into an extruder. That's the beauty of water-based coolants, the evaporation of the water really cools stuff off. Wait, you're only cutting .005 deep per pass??? WHY? This particular sheet of alu seems to be dead soft. The chips it was making looked about the right size spinning around in the oil. I don't have water out there other than used. :) And no real drainage system exists although I have considered just setting the whole mill into a pan about an inch deep, if I could find a suitable pan. I might tend to go a bit less than half the tool diameter, but that is too conservative even for HSS, and way too conservative for carbide. If you insist on such small Z plunge, you should be cutting this at 20 IPM or something! I don't have much experience with 1/16 carbide end mills, but use 1/8carbide 4-flute mills as one of my most standard cutters for .060 - .125 aluminum panels. I frequently run a whole day on one cutter. And, I do it usually at about 2800 RPM. If the wad of aluminum around the cutter develops, you are already sunk, you have to avoid the softening of the material. Running under cutting oil, about 1/16 deep, is a shop that's showing 51F, really s/b cold enough. There was no heat or smoke, it simply stopped cutting and well before I could hit the button, it had bent about 40 thou and went ping, with no clue where it went. I was digging what was effectively a straight ahead ditch 1/16th wide, and at 5 thou deep, there are 30 thou fins sticking up all over what it did before the ping. I would probably be time screwing around ahead of the game to see if I have a big enough piece left from the last brass door kickplate to make this. There's no reason I couldn't make it from a plastic, like formica, except that stuff is shipped rolled up and is not capable of ever being flattened again. I need flat stock that won't wobble. I cut the first one, whose slots it turned out weren't long enough, in a much harder sheet of alu, cutting in two passes all the way through a .0625 sheet, with an identical bit from the same order. But that is almost too thick for these opto's slots, hence the attempt to cut a thinner one. I have also rerouted the board to make it much easier to assemble, so I'll probably make another board which will allow me to stand the Z sensor high enough to catch the z slot in the outer rim, otherwise the hole circle is so small that when the A/B sensors are about right, the z sensor is completely missing the edge of the wheel, a good 1/8 outside of the Z slot. So I am gradually getting eagle figured out. Next board might be even better if I can keep a fine bead on Murphy. He and I know each other well, but that doesn't mean we're friends.
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
On Monday, February 13, 2012 01:12:11 AM charles green did opine: some right angle dremel tool attachments have flat sides that can be clamped to other things. there are also air powered pencil die grinders that have been adapted as high rpm spindles. for cutting thin sheets, an exacto knife could be chucked up to use the spindle as the rotating element of a swivel knife arrangement. disengage any drive to spindle so it rotates freely, and plan the tool path so the knife point follows around like a shopping cart wheel. in certain cases, the axis movement motors are capable of providing the useful work energy without any help from a spindle motor. for example, a knurling wheel will work in a neutral spindle, letting the spindle rotate by the friction of the wheel rolling along the work surface. for cutting aluminum can material, a ball point pen run over the cut line many times against a hard backing surface will produce a breakable score. This stuff is 0.037 thick, and is intended to be the slotted wheel used with opto-interrupters to sense a lathes spindle position as it rotates. Roland seems to know how to make the swivel knife work well in their plotters cutters, but I'd have no clue how to modify the gcode that carves this in order to get the level of precision needed. Thanks Charles. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene I saw Lassie. It took me four shows to figure out why the hairy kid never spoke. I mean, he could roll over and all that, but did that deserve a series? -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
On Monday, February 13, 2012 01:18:55 AM Mark Cason did opine: On 02/12/2012 11:39 PM, gene heskett wrote: On Monday, February 13, 2012 12:36:51 AM Dean Hedin did opine: Check out shars.com I think they have high helix 2 flute aluminum bits at pretty good prices. Also the long cutting area is why they are breaking. Get a stubby length. I Think they have them, but they refuse to show them to me as a general rule. I did find one page of 1/4 and up stuff that worked, but most of it was an empty screen at the end of the link. Cheers, Gene I have their 2011/12 catalog, and it shows 1/8 as their smallest high helix carbide cutter. If the price is good, then it might worth downloading the catalog, but its about 150 megs so I killed that download. Is the price right? say under $15/copy? Oh wait, you said 1/8 was the smallest. Won't work. Thanks Mark. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene aav coffee on an empty stomach is pretty nasy knghtbrd aav: time to run to the vending machine for cheetos aav cheetos? :) -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
Gene- Sounds like your problem is mostly due to the crappy aluminum. I had that happen this weekend cutting an aluminum sign using customer supplied material. I did a dry run with a .07 2 flute in some 6061 alloy (which cuts without coolant just fine at ~20,000 rpm) and all was well. When I went to cut the job the bit loaded up immediately. So I ended up using an 1/8 bit cutting with a flood of WD-40 and settling for the larger radius in the corners. Gummy aluminum sucks. Have you considered using brass for your wheel? Nearly every hobby shop carries the KS brass sheets. I believe it's all 360 brass which machines beautifully. Plus, it's very easy to blacken it. From: gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:17 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill On Monday, February 13, 2012 01:12:11 AM charles green did opine: some right angle dremel tool attachments have flat sides that can be clamped to other things. there are also air powered pencil die grinders that have been adapted as high rpm spindles. for cutting thin sheets, an exacto knife could be chucked up to use the spindle as the rotating element of a swivel knife arrangement. disengage any drive to spindle so it rotates freely, and plan the tool path so the knife point follows around like a shopping cart wheel. in certain cases, the axis movement motors are capable of providing the useful work energy without any help from a spindle motor. for example, a knurling wheel will work in a neutral spindle, letting the spindle rotate by the friction of the wheel rolling along the work surface. for cutting aluminum can material, a ball point pen run over the cut line many times against a hard backing surface will produce a breakable score. This stuff is 0.037 thick, and is intended to be the slotted wheel used with opto-interrupters to sense a lathes spindle position as it rotates. Roland seems to know how to make the swivel knife work well in their plotters cutters, but I'd have no clue how to modify the gcode that carves this in order to get the level of precision needed. Thanks Charles. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene I saw Lassie. It took me four shows to figure out why the hairy kid never spoke. I mean, he could roll over and all that, but did that deserve a series? -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16 end mill
On 02/13/2012 12:21 AM, gene heskett wrote: I have their 2011/12 catalog, and it shows 1/8 as their smallest high helix carbide cutter. If the price is good, then it might worth downloading the catalog, but its about 150 megs so I killed that download. Is the price right? say under $15/copy? Oh wait, you said 1/8 was the smallest. Won't work. Thanks Mark. Cheers, Gene The PDF on their site is the old 2010/11 catalog. I have a paper copy. They have some 2 flute solid carbide end mills. Regular length - 1/16 dia x 1/4 flute length. 1/8 shank x 1-1/2 overall length: uncoated - 415-0970 - $5.67 ALTIN coated - 415-1007 - $6.51 Stub length - 1/16 dia x 1/8 flute length. 1/8 shank x 1-1/2 OAL: uncoated - 415-0398 - $4.03 ALTIN coated - 415-0415 - $5.26 3xDiameter Miniature - 0.062 dia x 0.186 flute length. 0.125 shank x 1-1/2 OAL: uncoated - 415-2232 - $9.18 ALTIN coated 415-2286 - $11.03 1.5xD Miniature - 0.062 dia x 0.093 flute length. 0.125 shank x 1-1/2 OAL: uncoated - 415-2871 - $10.57 ALTIN coated - 415-2896 - $12.68 You should be able to type the part #'s into their site. When you order something in a medium sized, or larger box, they drop in a catalog. Hope this helps. -- -Mark Ne M'oubliez ---Family Motto Hope for the best, plan for the worst ---Personal Motto -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
