Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[Drew Rogge]

I would:

place the part on the base and machine large face

place part on large face and  machine the base and the t-slot. This means that 
the base and long dim. of the  t-slot are perpendicular to the face

place part on base and indicate large face to be perpendicular to spindle. This 
also means that length of the t-slot is parallel to the spindle

sweep the two sides of the t-slot to center spindle on slot

machine bore.

Drew

On 3/30/17 4:02 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> If you have a part with a large bore through the middle, how do you
> set up to machine a hole exactly perpendicular to the axis of that
> bore?
>
> I imagine that this is quite a common problem, so must have a common solution?
>
> My particular setup puzzle is analagous to this, except that I will be
> using the horizontal spindle.
>
> Machining this casting: https://goo.gl/photos/6QhNnqjzRuSJJpva7
>
> The order of operations will be, starting with the raw casting:
> 1) with the large flat face clamped down to the table machine the base flat.
> 2) Now clamp the base to the table, face off the large flat face and
> machine the large bore.
> 3) Return to the original setup and machine a key-slot in the base
> _exactly_ on the axis of the large bore.
>
> 3) is the problem. I can indicate the base to make sure that is
> perpendicular to the spindle axis, but how do I make sure that the
> bore axis and the spindle axis intersect?
>

-- 
Drew Rogge
d...@dasrogges.com

Phone: 8934OOO629OO4829631OOO


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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 30 March 2017 15:21:48 John Kasunich wrote:

> Why can't it be as 120mm diameter x 5mm thick disk?
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017, at 09:00 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On 30 March 2017 at 13:41, Cristian Bontas 
 wrote:
> > > You could turn a cylinder that fits snugly in the large hole.
> >
> > Certainly a possibility, but at 120mm quite a big chunk of material
> > to use just as a jig.
> >
You only need that spacer directly under the clamps, Andy. Your part 
looks plenty rigid enough as long as the shims are parallel, and placed 
directly under the clamps so that a ton of pressure per clamp isn't 
going to warp it.
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > 
> >-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] Documentaion Question / Addition

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 30 March 2017 15:07:41 John Kasunich wrote:

> There was a time (in the late 1990's to early 2000's) when LinuxCNC
> (EMC back then) had three realtime threads.  What we now know as the
> base and servo threads, and a third slower thread for the trajectory
> planner.  Back in the day, computers couldn't necessarily do all the
> trajectory planner (and especially kinematics) math quick enough, so
> the planner ran at 1/10 the rate and the output was interpolated at
> the servo rate.
>
> The third thread went away in 2004 or so when EMC2 rewrote much of the
> motion controller.
>
> There is no mechanism for detecting unused ini file parameters, so it
> is quite possible that no code has actually used the parameters you
> mention in more than a decade.
>
> I'm not in a position to do it, but I wonder how hard it would be to
> grep thru the code to see if those parameters are used?  If they're
> not, they should be deleted from the sample configs.
>
> John Kasunich

Interesting comment, John K.

So I fired up the editor and took both CYCLE_TIME settings in the .ini 
file out of the ini file for my small mill.

On running it, trajectory did not complain, but emcio did, saying it was 
useing the default timing of .01 seconds, same as the ini file setting. 
That did not prevent it from running. So I restored that one, but left 
it commented out in the [TRAJ] section.

Based on that, the [TRAJ] section CYCLE_TIME could probably go away.

But does changing the one in [EMCIO] actually do anything in the way of 
optimizing things better when generating motor steps in software? Or 
conversely in a 5i25 or work-alike card where there is not a base 
thread?

Whomever has kicked those "tires" recently should be able to comment. 
Adding to the wiki files under EMCIO would also be a nice clarification.

> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017, at 05:34 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
> > It's me again ... :-)
> >
> > While in the [TRAJ] section of the INI file is see the variable
> > CYCLE_TIME = 0.010, but is not mentioned in the INI config
> > documents.  I am only guessing that this is the polling interval
> > time for the trajectory planner but am not sure.  Can I add this to
> > my list?
> >
> > Thanks again, sorry to be a pain.
> >
> > Joe Hildreth
> >
> > - On Mar 29, 2017, at 3:35 PM, Joe Hildreth 
j...@threerivershospital.com wrote:
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > I am going through the INI file of my stepper based Gantry machine
> > > and am looking at the [EMCMOT] section. In this section I see two
> > > variables:
> > >
> > > COMM_TIMEOUT = 1.0
> > > COMM_WAIT = 0.010
> > >
> > > I am guessing they have something to do with the communication
> > > times, but the INI Configuration section of the documentation does
> > > not mention these, and I see no reference to them in the core
> > > component motion section of the documentation.
> > >
> > > Can someone explain these to me and maybe add them to the INI
> > > config docs?
> > >
> > > Many thanks for your help, patience and time.
> > >
> > > Joe Hildreth
> > > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
> > > world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
> > > http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > 
> >-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
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> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Documentaion Question / Addition

[andy pugh]

On 30 March 2017 at 20:07, John Kasunich  wrote:
> I'm not in a position to do it, but I wonder how hard it would be to grep 
> thru the code to see if those parameters are used?  If they're not, they 
> should be deleted from the sample configs.

Checked here:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/af15a4d90e1d51d5309db65fe1c9511e486df411/src/emc/motion/usrmotintf.cc#L61

Only used once, here:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/af15a4d90e1d51d5309db65fe1c9511e486df411/src/emc/motion/usrmotintf.cc#L100

(And there is a default set)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Documentaion Question / Addition

[John Thornton]

I would comment them out and test, I tested the first two... and yes the 
StepConf maintainer should remove ini items that are not used. You 
should start a issue on this, the issue tracker is the correct place to 
report things like this.

https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/issues

JT


On 3/30/2017 3:08 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
> John,
>
> These entries were generated with stepconf, should stepconf be updated so as 
> not to include them.  Also, just to verify, all three variable can be removed 
> from these two sections?
>
> [EMCMOT] section
> COMM_TIMEOUT = 1.0
> COMM_WAIT = 0.010
>
> [TRAJ] section
> CYCLE_TIME = 0.010
>
>
> Joe Hildreth
>
> - On Mar 30, 2017, at 2:32 PM, John Thornton j...@gnipsel.com wrote:
>
>> You can comment them out and LinuxCNC runs just fine, that tells me they
>> are leftover bit rot.
>>
>> JT
>>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[andy pugh]

On 30 March 2017 at 20:38, John Kasunich  wrote:
> Put two t-nuts in the center t-slot, bolt one cylinder down using one of the 
> nuts in a arbitrary location.  Set the part over the cylinder, insert the 
> second cylinder and slide them apart until the two cylinders are touching the 
> inside of your big bore at the left and right sides.  Tighten down the second 
> cylinder.  Carefully lift the part up and off.
> The gap between the cylinders is centered on the big bore.  Use the coaxial 
> indicator (spindle off, rotate manually) to center the spindle in the gap.  
> Lock X.  Replace part, indicate base perpendicular to spindle, clamp down.

Thanks, that does seem like it should work, yes. And saves me trying
to find a big lump of material.

Another idea just came to mind too. I have a three-jaw chuck that
bolts down to the mill table. I could perhaps indicate to a rod held
in that, then expand the jaws into the bore of the part.
I would need to check how true it runs, of course, it might well have
ended up in my possession for a good reason.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[Ken Strauss]

It might be slightly more accurate to use a tooling ball in the centre of the 
120mm disc rather than a dowel pin. They have a shoulder so tilt would not be 
an issue.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Kasunich [mailto:jmkasun...@fastmail.fm]
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 3:27 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question
>
> Elaborating on my own post:
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017, at 03:21 PM, John Kasunich wrote:
> > Why can't it be as 120mm diameter x 5mm thick disk?
>
> Turn said disk on the lathe, and bore a concentric but much smaller hole in
> the center.  Then you can indicate to either the hole or a dowel inserted in
> the hole.
>
> There would be at least two, maybe four, other holes, non-critical, for 
> bolting
> the disk down to the table.  Bolt it down loosely  with the table empty,
> indicate  such that spindle points thru the center of the vertical dowel, 
> tighten
> bolts and check again.  Then set the part over the disk, indicate base
> perpendicular to spindle, and clamp part down.
>
> > On Thu, Mar 30, 2017, at 09:00 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > > On 30 March 2017 at 13:41, Cristian Bontas
>  wrote:
> > > > You could turn a cylinder that fits snugly in the large hole.
> > >
> > > Certainly a possibility, but at 120mm quite a big chunk of material
> > > to use just as a jig.
> > >
> > > --
> > > atp
> > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > > lunatics."
> > > - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> > >
> > > 
> > > -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
> > > world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
> > > http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > --
> >   John Kasunich
> >   jmkasun...@fastmail.fm
>
>
> --
>   John Kasunich
>   jmkasun...@fastmail.fm
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
> tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Documentaion Question / Addition

[Joe Hildreth]

John,

These entries were generated with stepconf, should stepconf be updated so as 
not to include them.  Also, just to verify, all three variable can be removed 
from these two sections?

[EMCMOT] section
COMM_TIMEOUT = 1.0
COMM_WAIT = 0.010

[TRAJ] section
CYCLE_TIME = 0.010


Joe Hildreth

- On Mar 30, 2017, at 2:32 PM, John Thornton j...@gnipsel.com wrote:

> You can comment them out and LinuxCNC runs just fine, that tells me they
> are leftover bit rot.
> 
> JT
> 

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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[John Kasunich]

Yet another possibility:  two pieces of matched diameter stock somewhere 
between 25-50mm diameter (non-critical)
and 25-75mm long.  Non-critical hole down the center of each one to fit a 
clamping stud.  

Put two t-nuts in the center t-slot, bolt one cylinder down using one of the 
nuts in a arbitrary location.  Set the part over the cylinder, insert the 
second cylinder and slide them apart until the two cylinders are touching the 
inside of your big bore at the left and right sides.  Tighten down the second 
cylinder.  Carefully lift the part up and off.

The gap between the cylinders is centered on the big bore.  Use the coaxial 
indicator (spindle off, rotate manually) to center the spindle in the gap.  
Lock X.  Replace part, indicate base perpendicular to spindle, clamp down.



On Thu, Mar 30, 2017, at 09:00 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 30 March 2017 at 13:41, Cristian Bontas  wrote:
> > You could turn a cylinder that fits snugly in the large hole.
> 
> Certainly a possibility, but at 120mm quite a big chunk of material to
> use just as a jig.
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


-- 
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] Documentaion Question / Addition

[John Thornton]

You can comment them out and LinuxCNC runs just fine, that tells me they 
are leftover bit rot.

JT


On 3/30/2017 2:07 PM, John Kasunich wrote:
> There was a time (in the late 1990's to early 2000's) when LinuxCNC (EMC back 
> then) had three realtime threads.  What we now know as the base and servo 
> threads, and a third slower thread for the trajectory planner.  Back in the 
> day, computers couldn't necessarily do all the trajectory planner (and 
> especially kinematics) math quick enough, so the planner ran at 1/10 the rate 
> and the output was interpolated at the servo rate.
>
> The third thread went away in 2004 or so when EMC2 rewrote much of the motion 
> controller.
>
> There is no mechanism for detecting unused ini file parameters, so it is 
> quite possible that no code has actually used the parameters you mention in 
> more than a decade.
>
> I'm not in a position to do it, but I wonder how hard it would be to grep 
> thru the code to see if those parameters are used?  If they're not, they 
> should be deleted from the sample configs.
>
> John Kasunich
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017, at 05:34 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
>> It's me again ... :-)
>>
>> While in the [TRAJ] section of the INI file is see the variable CYCLE_TIME = 
>> 0.010, but is not mentioned in the INI config documents.  I am only guessing 
>> that this is the polling interval time for the trajectory planner but am not 
>> sure.  Can I add this to my list?
>>
>> Thanks again, sorry to be a pain.
>>
>> Joe Hildreth
>>
>> - On Mar 29, 2017, at 3:35 PM, Joe Hildreth j...@threerivershospital.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am going through the INI file of my stepper based Gantry machine and am
>>> looking at the [EMCMOT] section. In this section I see two variables:
>>>
>>> COMM_TIMEOUT = 1.0
>>> COMM_WAIT = 0.010
>>>
>>> I am guessing they have something to do with the communication times, but 
>>> the
>>> INI Configuration section of the documentation does not mention these, and I
>>> see no reference to them in the core component motion section of the
>>> documentation.
>>>
>>> Can someone explain these to me and maybe add them to the INI config docs?
>>>
>>> Many thanks for your help, patience and time.
>>>
>>> Joe Hildreth
>>> --
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> --
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>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[John Kasunich]

Elaborating on my own post:

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017, at 03:21 PM, John Kasunich wrote:
> Why can't it be as 120mm diameter x 5mm thick disk?

Turn said disk on the lathe, and bore a concentric but much smaller hole in the 
center.  Then you can indicate to either the hole or a dowel inserted in the 
hole.

There would be at least two, maybe four, other holes, non-critical, for bolting 
the disk down to the table.  Bolt it down loosely  with the table empty, 
indicate  such that spindle points thru the center of the vertical dowel, 
tighten bolts and check again.  Then set the part over the disk, indicate base 
perpendicular to spindle, and clamp part down.

> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017, at 09:00 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On 30 March 2017 at 13:41, Cristian Bontas  
> > wrote:
> > > You could turn a cylinder that fits snugly in the large hole.
> > 
> > Certainly a possibility, but at 120mm quite a big chunk of material to
> > use just as a jig.
> > 
> > -- 
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> -- 
>   John Kasunich
>   jmkasun...@fastmail.fm


-- 
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  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[John Kasunich]

Why can't it be as 120mm diameter x 5mm thick disk?


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017, at 09:00 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 30 March 2017 at 13:41, Cristian Bontas  wrote:
> > You could turn a cylinder that fits snugly in the large hole.
> 
> Certainly a possibility, but at 120mm quite a big chunk of material to
> use just as a jig.
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


-- 
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] Documentaion Question / Addition

[John Kasunich]

There was a time (in the late 1990's to early 2000's) when LinuxCNC (EMC back 
then) had three realtime threads.  What we now know as the base and servo 
threads, and a third slower thread for the trajectory planner.  Back in the 
day, computers couldn't necessarily do all the trajectory planner (and 
especially kinematics) math quick enough, so the planner ran at 1/10 the rate 
and the output was interpolated at the servo rate.

The third thread went away in 2004 or so when EMC2 rewrote much of the motion 
controller.

There is no mechanism for detecting unused ini file parameters, so it is quite 
possible that no code has actually used the parameters you mention in more than 
a decade.

I'm not in a position to do it, but I wonder how hard it would be to grep thru 
the code to see if those parameters are used?  If they're not, they should be 
deleted from the sample configs.

John Kasunich


On Wed, Mar 29, 2017, at 05:34 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
> It's me again ... :-)
> 
> While in the [TRAJ] section of the INI file is see the variable CYCLE_TIME = 
> 0.010, but is not mentioned in the INI config documents.  I am only guessing 
> that this is the polling interval time for the trajectory planner but am not 
> sure.  Can I add this to my list?
> 
> Thanks again, sorry to be a pain.
> 
> Joe Hildreth 
> 
> - On Mar 29, 2017, at 3:35 PM, Joe Hildreth j...@threerivershospital.com 
> wrote:
> 
> > Hello all,
> > 
> > I am going through the INI file of my stepper based Gantry machine and am
> > looking at the [EMCMOT] section. In this section I see two variables:
> > 
> > COMM_TIMEOUT = 1.0
> > COMM_WAIT = 0.010
> > 
> > I am guessing they have something to do with the communication times, but 
> > the
> > INI Configuration section of the documentation does not mention these, and I
> > see no reference to them in the core component motion section of the
> > documentation.
> > 
> > Can someone explain these to me and maybe add them to the INI config docs?
> > 
> > Many thanks for your help, patience and time.
> > 
> > Joe Hildreth
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[andy pugh]

On 30 March 2017 at 18:56, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> I would mount the shaft in the hole, or make something that fits snugly,
> and could serve as something to indicate for verticality.

There is no shaft, there is a 250mm register for the harmonic drive unit.
And I can't bolt it down and indicate of the HD, as it pokes through
on both sides.

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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 30 March 2017 07:02:14 andy pugh wrote:

> If you have a part with a large bore through the middle, how do you
> set up to machine a hole exactly perpendicular to the axis of that
> bore?
>
Similar problem with this taperlock hub I've made, it could tip enough 
that the shaft it rides on, could not go thru. I wound up leaving it 
loose from the pulley, and with the shaft in place, drove it with a 
hammer until it was both aligned with the shaft, and tightly enough held 
by the taper wedge, that I have now bored the 3 jacking it apart holes 
without it moving. The shaft is a drop all the way thru fit now.

So if the shaft is available, mounting a dial indicator and scanning the 
shaft would show any leaning. I don't quickly visualize another way 
although the hole could be scanned with a dial. That would also check 
head tram, but I like to do that with a longer baseline.

What I did find was that the G0704's head was out of tram so a drill, 
shorter than my find center probe, was drilling left of the "target 
circle". I have adjusted that a wee bit.

The largest force it will need to stay wedged is probably the rigid 
tapping of those holes with a 5mm.8 tap.  So I'll probably do that last.

Humm, sitting here, visualizing this, I just realized that its sitting on 
a table slot, and I could put a third bolt down thru the 7/8" central 
hole, with the right sized washer, pull in firmly into the taper. That 
should prevent any slippage while doing the rest of the machining,

What I need next is an electrical pad to serve as a touchoff point since 
there will be at least 4 tool changes in this to finish it. 6 operations 
with the tap drill, 3 with the clearance drill, 3 with a 1/8" mill to 
counterbore for much of the cap screws head, and 6 with the tap.

> I imagine that this is quite a common problem, so must have a common
> solution?
>
Each of us probably has his own method of checking that, so the rest of 
the list should describe their methods of dealing with a similar 
problem.

> My particular setup puzzle is analagous to this, except that I will be
> using the horizontal spindle.
>
> Machining this casting: https://goo.gl/photos/6QhNnqjzRuSJJpva7
>
> The order of operations will be, starting with the raw casting:
> 1) with the large flat face clamped down to the table machine the base
> flat. 

> 2) Now clamp the base to the table, face off the large flat face 
> and machine the large bore.

> 3) Return to the original setup and machine a key-slot in the base
> _exactly_ on the axis of the large bore.
>
> 3) is the problem. I can indicate the base to make sure that is
> perpendicular to the spindle axis, but how do I make sure that the
> bore axis and the spindle axis intersect?

OIC, you want to key this into the table so the axis is aligned with the 
table slots and  dead level.

And the error source is the faceing of the base  with the raw front face 
as the first operation.

I wouldn't face the base or the face clean in one pass, just enough to 
sit flat w/o rocking. Do both faces, the do again since its now square 
to itself, this time faceing clean. Whatever you clean off the base can 
be compensated by the holes center height, making sure it is exactly the 
same as the other end.

That takes care of the up-down aiming errors. What remains would be the 
holes center height differences from end to end. Measuring and zeroing 
for the hole center by using the base as reference, should get the 
correct height.

The problem then is reduced to machining the key slot exactly on axis 
with the table, locating that bore axis exactly (left/right) on the 
table axis

I would mount the shaft in the hole, or make something that fits snugly, 
and could serve as something to indicate for verticality.  Or if your 
dial will fit in the hole, indicate the hole.  Then indicate and shim 
with a feeler gage leaf under one edge or the other until that error is 
gone, then cut the bases key slot. The alignment should be pretty good.

But note Key word "should" Andy.  And I'd make that key "press fit" fat, 
as that should, by eliminating the usual easy fit slop, pretty well fix 
the lateral alignment.

Good luck Andy. I find makeing my own such tools much more satisfying 
than finding something that might work and dropping card numbers to make 
it mine. Too often it doesn't fit exactly, but its still yours, and your 
balance is still lowered at the bank.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Joe Hildreth]

John,
Todd,
Nicklas,

Just wanted to thank you gentlemen one more time for the help.  I really 
appreciate it.

Regards,

Joe Hildreth 

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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[John Thornton]

Once 2.8 is released I would switch to it _unless_ you need some feature 
in the new Master. This way you get bug fixes only and nothing that 
could be a show stopper... or a surprise.

JT


On 3/30/2017 11:45 AM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
> John,
>
> Thank you again for the help and information.  I will try this out when I get 
> home.  One last question, when 2.8 is released, is it a matter then of just 
> changing the software sources to be on that release or would it be best to 
> just keep on the buildbot sources?
>
> Thank you again for your help.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Hildreth
>
> - On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:35 AM, John Thornton j...@gnipsel.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Joe,
>>
>> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
>>
>> You just need to change the deb line in the synaptic package manager to
>> point to:
>>
>> deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ precise master-rtpreempt
>> and
>> deb-src http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ precise master-rtpreempt
>>
>> and follow the instructions to add the key.
>> JT
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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Joe Hildreth]

John,

Thank you again for the help and information.  I will try this out when I get 
home.  One last question, when 2.8 is released, is it a matter then of just 
changing the software sources to be on that release or would it be best to just 
keep on the buildbot sources?

Thank you again for your help.

Regards,

Joe Hildreth 

- On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:35 AM, John Thornton j...@gnipsel.com wrote:

> Hi Joe,
> 
> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
> 
> You just need to change the deb line in the synaptic package manager to
> point to:
> 
> deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ precise master-rtpreempt
> and
> deb-src http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ precise master-rtpreempt
> 
> and follow the instructions to add the key.
> JT

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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Todd Zuercher]

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the release of 2.8.  (And there is no 
release schedule.)

But Master is relatively safe to run, and lots of people use it to run real 
machinery.
It can be installed relatively easily on a system already running a standard 
Linuxcnc Debian Wheezy install.
Simply add the Linuxcnc Buildbot repository for Master to your source list and 
install it with Synaptic.
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/

- Original Message -
From: "Joe Hildreth" 
To: "emc-users" 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 12:18:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

Todd,

Thank you for the feedback.  Can you point me to some information on how to get 
the 2.8-pre installed on my debian wheezy box?

Thanks,

Joe Hildreth 

- On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:05 AM, Todd Zuercher zuerc...@embarqmail.com wrote:

> The current Master branch (2.8-pre) is a descendant of JA14, and would be the
> preferred method for a gantry with independent parallel joints on a single
> axis.
> 

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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[John Thornton]

Hi Joe,

http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/

You just need to change the deb line in the synaptic package manager to 
point to:

deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ precise master-rtpreempt
and
deb-src http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ precise master-rtpreempt

and follow the instructions to add the key.
JT

On 3/30/2017 11:21 AM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
> John,
>
> Thank you for the information.  Todd mentioned that I could run the 2.8-pre 
> version, but I am unsure how to get it to my wheezy box.  Are there software 
> sources I need to point to to do this, or something else.  I would be happy 
> with a link to some instructions.
>
> Also, is there a time line for the 2.8 release?  Should I just wait?
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Hildreth
>
> - On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:13 AM, John Thornton j...@gnipsel.com wrote:
>
>> The gantry component was a work around for 2.7. The JA branch has been
>> merged into Master for some time now. Master is the development branch
>> and when 2.8 is released it will contain most if not all of the things
>> currently in master.
>>
>> JT
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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Nicklas Karlsson]

It is possible to download with git, I do not have link but it should be rather 
simple to find.


On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:21:42 -0500 (CDT)
Joe Hildreth  wrote:

> John,
> 
> Thank you for the information.  Todd mentioned that I could run the 2.8-pre 
> version, but I am unsure how to get it to my wheezy box.  Are there software 
> sources I need to point to to do this, or something else.  I would be happy 
> with a link to some instructions.
> 
> Also, is there a time line for the 2.8 release?  Should I just wait?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Joe Hildreth 
> 
> - On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:13 AM, John Thornton j...@gnipsel.com wrote:
> 
> > The gantry component was a work around for 2.7. The JA branch has been
> > merged into Master for some time now. Master is the development branch
> > and when 2.8 is released it will contain most if not all of the things
> > currently in master.
> > 
> > JT
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Joe Hildreth]

John,

Thank you for the information.  Todd mentioned that I could run the 2.8-pre 
version, but I am unsure how to get it to my wheezy box.  Are there software 
sources I need to point to to do this, or something else.  I would be happy 
with a link to some instructions.

Also, is there a time line for the 2.8 release?  Should I just wait?

Regards,

Joe Hildreth 

- On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:13 AM, John Thornton j...@gnipsel.com wrote:

> The gantry component was a work around for 2.7. The JA branch has been
> merged into Master for some time now. Master is the development branch
> and when 2.8 is released it will contain most if not all of the things
> currently in master.
> 
> JT

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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Joe Hildreth]

Todd,

Thank you for the feedback.  Can you point me to some information on how to get 
the 2.8-pre installed on my debian wheezy box?

Thanks,

Joe Hildreth 

- On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:05 AM, Todd Zuercher zuerc...@embarqmail.com wrote:

> The current Master branch (2.8-pre) is a descendant of JA14, and would be the
> preferred method for a gantry with independent parallel joints on a single
> axis.
> 

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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[John Thornton]

The gantry component was a work around for 2.7. The JA branch has been 
merged into Master for some time now. Master is the development branch 
and when 2.8 is released it will contain most if not all of the things 
currently in master.

JT


On 3/30/2017 10:40 AM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I built a gantry type router a year or so ago and was more interested in 
> getting it running than anything else. My gantry runs along the Y axis and 
> has 2 motors (joints). I am running the Axis GUI on LinuxCNC 2.6.x.
>
> My current setup has the ystep and ydir signals driving two motors. Slaved 
> together is maybe the word I am looking for. See HAL snippet:
>
> net ystep => parport.0.pin-04-out
> net ydir => parport.0.pin-05-out
> net ystep => parport.0.pin-06-out
> net ydir => parport.0.pin-07-out
>
> I have cut loads of stuff with the machine and feel like I am at a point I 
> want to make it better. Up to now, I would bump the gantry against a hard 
> stop to square it and home the axes by hand. I want to add homing switches 
> which brings me to my first observations.
>
> 1) I know that the 2.7 version of LinuxCNC has the gantry component and I 
> have looked at a couple of configurations on how that it set up, so I believe 
> the gantry joints can be homed independently and squared by adjusting how far 
> the joint is moved off the switch.
>
> 2) I have seen a couple of post from BigJohnT were he recommends using the 
> 2.8 pre version (JA14 branch) as trivkins now handles an axis with multiple 
> joints. I have found a little information on this but may be able to muddle 
> my way through configuration.
>
> So, my questions are:
>
> 1) If I am going to go through all the work of setting this up, which would 
> be the recommended version? 2.7 with the gantry component, or the JA14 using 
> trivkins?
>
> 2) If the JA14 branch is the recommended version to use, how do I get it 
> installed? My controller computer was installed using the Debian Wheezy 
> hybrid ISO.
>
> 3) Will the JA14 branch eventually be released as version 2.8? If I use the 
> JA14 branch and it is released as 2.8, how does that affect me? Does it 
> auto-magically become 2.8 or am I still on a developmental branch? If not, 
> how do I switch back over to the 2.8 stable release after it comes out.
>
> If you have references you would recommend for reading, I will be happy to 
> read them. Or other advice. I know you guys get a lot of gantry homing 
> question stuff and I hope I am not being too much of a pain.
>
> Thank you for your advice,
>
> Joe Hildreth
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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Todd Zuercher]

The current Master branch (2.8-pre) is a descendant of JA14, and would be the 
preferred method for a gantry with independent parallel joints on a single 
axis. 

- Original Message -
From: "Joe Hildreth" 
To: "emc-users" 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:40:12 AM
Subject: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

Hello all, 

I built a gantry type router a year or so ago and was more interested in 
getting it running than anything else. My gantry runs along the Y axis and has 
2 motors (joints). I am running the Axis GUI on LinuxCNC 2.6.x. 

My current setup has the ystep and ydir signals driving two motors. Slaved 
together is maybe the word I am looking for. See HAL snippet: 

net ystep => parport.0.pin-04-out 
net ydir => parport.0.pin-05-out 
net ystep => parport.0.pin-06-out 
net ydir => parport.0.pin-07-out 

I have cut loads of stuff with the machine and feel like I am at a point I want 
to make it better. Up to now, I would bump the gantry against a hard stop to 
square it and home the axes by hand. I want to add homing switches which brings 
me to my first observations. 

1) I know that the 2.7 version of LinuxCNC has the gantry component and I have 
looked at a couple of configurations on how that it set up, so I believe the 
gantry joints can be homed independently and squared by adjusting how far the 
joint is moved off the switch. 

2) I have seen a couple of post from BigJohnT were he recommends using the 2.8 
pre version (JA14 branch) as trivkins now handles an axis with multiple joints. 
I have found a little information on this but may be able to muddle my way 
through configuration. 

So, my questions are: 

1) If I am going to go through all the work of setting this up, which would be 
the recommended version? 2.7 with the gantry component, or the JA14 using 
trivkins? 

2) If the JA14 branch is the recommended version to use, how do I get it 
installed? My controller computer was installed using the Debian Wheezy hybrid 
ISO. 

3) Will the JA14 branch eventually be released as version 2.8? If I use the 
JA14 branch and it is released as 2.8, how does that affect me? Does it 
auto-magically become 2.8 or am I still on a developmental branch? If not, how 
do I switch back over to the 2.8 stable release after it comes out. 

If you have references you would recommend for reading, I will be happy to read 
them. Or other advice. I know you guys get a lot of gantry homing question 
stuff and I hope I am not being too much of a pain. 

Thank you for your advice, 

Joe Hildreth 
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[Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello all, 

I built a gantry type router a year or so ago and was more interested in 
getting it running than anything else. My gantry runs along the Y axis and has 
2 motors (joints). I am running the Axis GUI on LinuxCNC 2.6.x. 

My current setup has the ystep and ydir signals driving two motors. Slaved 
together is maybe the word I am looking for. See HAL snippet: 

net ystep => parport.0.pin-04-out 
net ydir => parport.0.pin-05-out 
net ystep => parport.0.pin-06-out 
net ydir => parport.0.pin-07-out 

I have cut loads of stuff with the machine and feel like I am at a point I want 
to make it better. Up to now, I would bump the gantry against a hard stop to 
square it and home the axes by hand. I want to add homing switches which brings 
me to my first observations. 

1) I know that the 2.7 version of LinuxCNC has the gantry component and I have 
looked at a couple of configurations on how that it set up, so I believe the 
gantry joints can be homed independently and squared by adjusting how far the 
joint is moved off the switch. 

2) I have seen a couple of post from BigJohnT were he recommends using the 2.8 
pre version (JA14 branch) as trivkins now handles an axis with multiple joints. 
I have found a little information on this but may be able to muddle my way 
through configuration. 

So, my questions are: 

1) If I am going to go through all the work of setting this up, which would be 
the recommended version? 2.7 with the gantry component, or the JA14 using 
trivkins? 

2) If the JA14 branch is the recommended version to use, how do I get it 
installed? My controller computer was installed using the Debian Wheezy hybrid 
ISO. 

3) Will the JA14 branch eventually be released as version 2.8? If I use the 
JA14 branch and it is released as 2.8, how does that affect me? Does it 
auto-magically become 2.8 or am I still on a developmental branch? If not, how 
do I switch back over to the 2.8 stable release after it comes out. 

If you have references you would recommend for reading, I will be happy to read 
them. Or other advice. I know you guys get a lot of gantry homing question 
stuff and I hope I am not being too much of a pain. 

Thank you for your advice, 

Joe Hildreth 
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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[Stuart Stevenson]

I think I would put at least two small holes in the face during 2).
I might even add an operation at the end to put a small hole in an
advantageous location depending on the application and tooling available.
This would give you features to align/check whenever you desired.
It has been my experience keys do not give long term accurate location
repeatability.
Keys align components close enough for some operations.
High accurate machining requires verification of positioning of even keyed
components.


On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 6:02 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> If you have a part with a large bore through the middle, how do you
> set up to machine a hole exactly perpendicular to the axis of that
> bore?
>
> I imagine that this is quite a common problem, so must have a common
> solution?
>
> My particular setup puzzle is analagous to this, except that I will be
> using the horizontal spindle.
>
> Machining this casting: https://goo.gl/photos/6QhNnqjzRuSJJpva7
>
> The order of operations will be, starting with the raw casting:
> 1) with the large flat face clamped down to the table machine the base
> flat.
> 2) Now clamp the base to the table, face off the large flat face and
> machine the large bore.
> 3) Return to the original setup and machine a key-slot in the base
> _exactly_ on the axis of the large bore.
>
> 3) is the problem. I can indicate the base to make sure that is
> perpendicular to the spindle axis, but how do I make sure that the
> bore axis and the spindle axis intersect?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[andy pugh]

On 30 March 2017 at 13:20, Erik Christiansen  wrote:
> Implicit in my other post is that the bore is machined first, and the
> keyway (partially) machined wherever that ends up, with just a knee
> elevation to get there. Once aligned, it can be widened or deepened in a
> subsequent operation, I figure.

I think this might be the way. My touch-probe doesn't actually fit the
horizontal spindle, but the coaxial indicator does. I can imagine
making a feature into which a turned button can fit, to be centred to
the indicator.

Though I was rather hoping not to have to re-invent a technique for
something which I feel sure is a frequent operation?

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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[andy pugh]

On 30 March 2017 at 13:41, Cristian Bontas  wrote:
> You could turn a cylinder that fits snugly in the large hole.

Certainly a possibility, but at 120mm quite a big chunk of material to
use just as a jig.

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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[Cristian Bontas]

Hello

You could turn a cylinder that fits snugly in the large hole.
Bolt it to the machine table, somewehere to the front (towards you), so that 
the part will fit over it.
Indicate its sides so that the cutter's axis is dead-centered on it.
Lock the table, put the part over the cylinder, indicate the face made in step 
1 to be perpendicular to the cutter axis.

On 3/30/2017 14:10:50, andy pugh  wrote:
If you have a part with a large bore through the middle, how do you
set up to machine a hole exactly perpendicular to the axis of that
bore?

I imagine that this is quite a common problem, so must have a common solution?

My particular setup puzzle is analagous to this, except that I will be
using the horizontal spindle.

Machining this casting: https://goo.gl/photos/6QhNnqjzRuSJJpva7

The order of operations will be, starting with the raw casting:
1) with the large flat face clamped down to the table machine the base flat.
2) Now clamp the base to the table, face off the large flat face and
machine the large bore.
3) Return to the original setup and machine a key-slot in the base
_exactly_ on the axis of the large bore.

3) is the problem. I can indicate the base to make sure that is
perpendicular to the spindle axis, but how do I make sure that the
bore axis and the spindle axis intersect?

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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[Erik Christiansen]

On 30.03.17 12:53, andy pugh wrote:
> I have been wondering about machining the keyway slot as part of the
> first step and making it deep enough at the front face to be able to
> probe it. However, I would prefer the freedom to centre the main
> mounting bore in the semi-machined casting at step 2, rather than have
> to get the key slot in the correct place first.

Implicit in my other post is that the bore is machined first, and the
keyway (partially) machined wherever that ends up, with just a knee
elevation to get there. Once aligned, it can be widened or deepened in a
subsequent operation, I figure.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[Erik Christiansen]

On 30.03.17 12:02, andy pugh wrote:
> My particular setup puzzle is analagous to this, except that I will be
> using the horizontal spindle.
> 
> Machining this casting: https://goo.gl/photos/6QhNnqjzRuSJJpva7
> 
> The order of operations will be, starting with the raw casting:
> 1) with the large flat face clamped down to the table machine the base flat.
> 2) Now clamp the base to the table, face off the large flat face and
> machine the large bore.

Perhaps clamp the base with spacers, so that a milling cutter can pass
under to pre-machine a D-shaped key-slot with X locked on the bore
position. The key-slot edges can then be clocked if it needs to be
re-machined for a flat bottom. If there's enough meat, a smaller slot
drill might be able to make a round-cornered key-slot deep enough,
but probably not long enough.

> 3) Return to the original setup and machine a key-slot in the base
> _exactly_ on the axis of the large bore.
> 
> 3) is the problem. I can indicate the base to make sure that is
> perpendicular to the spindle axis, but how do I make sure that the
> bore axis and the spindle axis intersect?

Yes, that's the step which should only be done with the key-slot
alignment pre-machined.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[andy pugh]

On 30 March 2017 at 12:38, Stephen Dubovsky  wrote:
> Why not swap 2&3?  Machine base flat and machine keyway for the table.
> Then mount to the table and indicate off the table slot to bore the hole
> exactly on center?  By default they will be parallel.

The slots run the wrong way for this to work quite that easily, but I
have considered a variant. I have been wondering about machining the
keyway slot as part of the first step and making it deep enough at the
front face to be able to probe it.
However, I would prefer the freedom to centre the main mounting bore
in the semi-machined casting at step 2, rather than have to get the
key slot in the correct place first.

The reason I initially mentioned the radial-hole situation with a
vertical mill is that I think this is a very common operation, so
there must be a common way of doing the setup.
However, my Google-fu seems weak, and all I seem to be able to find
are instructions on how to square up the machines themselves rather
than ways to set up to workpieces.


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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[John Thornton]

When you bore the hole can you machine some flats on either side as a 
reference?

JT

On 3/30/2017 6:02 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> If you have a part with a large bore through the middle, how do you
> set up to machine a hole exactly perpendicular to the axis of that
> bore?
>
> I imagine that this is quite a common problem, so must have a common solution?
>
> My particular setup puzzle is analagous to this, except that I will be
> using the horizontal spindle.
>
> Machining this casting: https://goo.gl/photos/6QhNnqjzRuSJJpva7
>
> The order of operations will be, starting with the raw casting:
> 1) with the large flat face clamped down to the table machine the base flat.
> 2) Now clamp the base to the table, face off the large flat face and
> machine the large bore.
> 3) Return to the original setup and machine a key-slot in the base
> _exactly_ on the axis of the large bore.
>
> 3) is the problem. I can indicate the base to make sure that is
> perpendicular to the spindle axis, but how do I make sure that the
> bore axis and the spindle axis intersect?
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Milling setup question

[Stephen Dubovsky]

Why not swap 2&3?  Machine base flat and machine keyway for the table.
Then mount to the table and indicate off the table slot to bore the hole
exactly on center?  By default they will be parallel.

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 7:02 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> If you have a part with a large bore through the middle, how do you
> set up to machine a hole exactly perpendicular to the axis of that
> bore?
>
> I imagine that this is quite a common problem, so must have a common
> solution?
>
> My particular setup puzzle is analagous to this, except that I will be
> using the horizontal spindle.
>
> Machining this casting: https://goo.gl/photos/6QhNnqjzRuSJJpva7
>
> The order of operations will be, starting with the raw casting:
> 1) with the large flat face clamped down to the table machine the base
> flat.
> 2) Now clamp the base to the table, face off the large flat face and
> machine the large bore.
> 3) Return to the original setup and machine a key-slot in the base
> _exactly_ on the axis of the large bore.
>
> 3) is the problem. I can indicate the base to make sure that is
> perpendicular to the spindle axis, but how do I make sure that the
> bore axis and the spindle axis intersect?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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[Emc-users] Milling setup question

[andy pugh]

If you have a part with a large bore through the middle, how do you
set up to machine a hole exactly perpendicular to the axis of that
bore?

I imagine that this is quite a common problem, so must have a common solution?

My particular setup puzzle is analagous to this, except that I will be
using the horizontal spindle.

Machining this casting: https://goo.gl/photos/6QhNnqjzRuSJJpva7

The order of operations will be, starting with the raw casting:
1) with the large flat face clamped down to the table machine the base flat.
2) Now clamp the base to the table, face off the large flat face and
machine the large bore.
3) Return to the original setup and machine a key-slot in the base
_exactly_ on the axis of the large bore.

3) is the problem. I can indicate the base to make sure that is
perpendicular to the spindle axis, but how do I make sure that the
bore axis and the spindle axis intersect?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Andrew]

2017-03-30 8:12 GMT+03:00 Erik Christiansen:

> This one makes claims:
> http://hackaday.com/2017/03/25/mrrf-17-e3d-introduces-combin
> ation-extruder-and-hotend/
>
> Dunno how well the performance matches the sales spiel, though.
>

Titan first, then Aero... and they're almost back to the origins
http://www.geeetech.com/wiki/index.php/MK8_Extruder
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