Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Chris Albertson]

It is not a public Beta.   First you get Fusion 360 running which means setting 
up an account.  They also need to see that you use Fusion regularly.

Then you apply for membership in the “Insider’s Program”.

More here 
https://feedback.autodesk.com/key/Fusion360Insider

There are other new fetures beibg tested, not just Apple Silicon.  One of them 
is a fastener library for nuts and bolts and they say there is a way to use yur 
company’s part number system for you fastener library.  Some other stuff about 
tool path generation.  I see something about version control when multiple 
users work on the same desgin files too. They add features frquently and 
then  few months later we see them in the public release.

What you can see and use in the Beta also depends if you have the free or paid 
version.  You can’t use paid beta features is you do not have a paid 
subscription


> On Jul 5, 2023, at 7:56 PM, Thaddeus Waldner  wrote:
> 
> Would you mind detailing how to get this beta?
> 
>> 
>> BTW, Fusion 360 has just come out with a Beta release that runs native on 
>> Apple Silicon.   The new Apple processors are astonishingly fast.   The 
>> above part is designed to be printed but it is fun to let Fusion great 
>> g-code files for milling and see what it comes up with.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Would you mind detailing how to get this beta?

> 
> BTW, Fusion 360 has just come out with a Beta release that runs native on 
> Apple Silicon.   The new Apple processors are astonishingly fast.   The above 
> part is designed to be printed but it is fun to let Fusion great g-code files 
> for milling and see what it comes up with.
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Dave Matthews]

I don't know if Thailand falls under the ITAR rules but they may be what
you are hitting.  If you can't install it you probably can't run it
either.  Autodesk loves the cloud and calling home.

Dave

On Wed, Jul 5, 2023, 22:41 Thomas J Powderly  wrote:

> thc all
>
> but the question said _get_
>
> not how to VBox or Wine  or...
>
> Thx but ity seems hard to __get__
>
> Now I've followed Dave's url and it doesnt work... due to my location.
>
> Dave
>
> Thanks, I think I cant complete the download becasue I am in Thailand
>
> The origin of the request is in a country not allowed (afaict)
>
> Tried my US addr and my Thai addr, trued FFox and Cgromium.
>
> I think Thailand requests are banned/
>
> ( the download ends immediately with a 'if unsuccessful,please try again'
>
> and wasj rinse repeat just doent work
>
> a VPN may help , i dunno.
>
> thxx
>
> tomp
>
> On 7/6/23 07:16, Chris Albertson wrote:
> >
> >> On Jul 5, 2023, at 11:36 AM, gene heskett  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 7/5/23 13:29, Thomas J Powderly wrote:
> >>> Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...
> >>> Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?
> >>> I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.
> >>> LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,
> >> That seems to be true, but it is not free anymore. So I'm making parts
> for stuff on 3d printers using OpenSCAD as the design software.  You can be
> productive quite rapidly in it.
> > What?   Fusion 360 is still free for personal use or even for commercial
> use as long as the bussines makes less than $50K.
> >
> > If you want 3D CAD software that can run on Linux then you could try
> > 1) FreeCAD,  Not unlike Fusion 360 but is mre limited and lacks
> sophisticated manufacturing ability
> > 2) OnShape,  Online, runs in a web browser and nit somewhat like FreeCad
> but has ZERO manufacturing ability
> > 3) OpenScad.  Good for very geometric designes that can be described in
> a modeling language.  Good for gears, bushing and such but VERY poor if you
> wanted to maybe make a car body part or a motorcycle engine cover
> >
> > If the goal is to convert STL files to “real” CAD drawings that can be
> edited.   Fusion is your best bet and even then you have to do a lot of
> manual work
> >
> >
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Installing From Debian?

[Thaddeus Waldner]

I just set up a replacement computer for an existing machine. The part I had 
the most trouble with turned out to be caused by a wifi router being 
misconfigured. Once that was ironed out, system took off without a hitch and 
has been running trouble-free for several days now. 

I followed the guide here:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.9/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html


I highly recommend this route.

To aid in figuring out which cores to isolate, I like to use lstopo. It is part 
of the hwloc package.

I have found that on multicore machines, it helps to isolate the last core, as 
well as any adjacent cores that it shares resources with. For example, some low 
power quad core Intel processors share a L2 cache between 2 cores.



> On Jul 5, 2023, at 5:22 PM, Todd Zuercher  wrote:
> 
> I have a machine that I am starting to refit and I am considering trying to 
> install that way rather than using one of the more obsolete Linuxcnc ISOs.


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Thomas J Powderly]

thc all

but the question said _get_

not how to VBox or Wine  or...

Thx but ity seems hard to __get__

Now I've followed Dave's url and it doesnt work... due to my location.

Dave

Thanks, I think I cant complete the download becasue I am in Thailand

The origin of the request is in a country not allowed (afaict)

Tried my US addr and my Thai addr, trued FFox and Cgromium.

I think Thailand requests are banned/

( the download ends immediately with a 'if unsuccessful,please try again'

and wasj rinse repeat just doent work

a VPN may help , i dunno.

thxx

tomp

On 7/6/23 07:16, Chris Albertson wrote:



On Jul 5, 2023, at 11:36 AM, gene heskett  wrote:

On 7/5/23 13:29, Thomas J Powderly wrote:

Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...
Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?
I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.
LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,

That seems to be true, but it is not free anymore. So I'm making parts for 
stuff on 3d printers using OpenSCAD as the design software.  You can be 
productive quite rapidly in it.

What?   Fusion 360 is still free for personal use or even for commercial use as 
long as the bussines makes less than $50K.

If you want 3D CAD software that can run on Linux then you could try
1) FreeCAD,  Not unlike Fusion 360 but is mre limited and lacks sophisticated 
manufacturing ability
2) OnShape,  Online, runs in a web browser and nit somewhat like FreeCad but 
has ZERO manufacturing ability
3) OpenScad.  Good for very geometric designes that can be described in a 
modeling language.  Good for gears, bushing and such but VERY poor if you 
wanted to maybe make a car body part or a motorcycle engine cover

If the goal is to convert STL files to “real” CAD drawings that can be edited.  
 Fusion is your best bet and even then you have to do a lot of manual work


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[Emc-users] Installing From Debian?

[Todd Zuercher]

Any one installed Debian 12 and running  Linuxcnc on a machine?  Since Linuxcnc 
is now in Debian Stable, I was wondering if anyone cared to voice their 
opinions about installing and running Linuxcnc that way.

I have a machine that I am starting to refit and I am considering trying to 
install that way rather than using one of the more obsolete Linuxcnc ISOs.

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/5/23 15:05, Dave Matthews wrote:

Fusion 360 is still free for personal use.  The limit is $1000 in sales.


Of what?


The do defeature some parts like rapids in tool paths.


That sucks, and since its gcode output is totally unwrapped, fixing the 
gcode in your fav editor isn't practical time wise. I may be a bit 
unusual, but I write my own gcode. I'm fond of subroutines, and quite 
complex projects seldom run more than 600 LOC.  Unwrapped, 20 gigabytes.


Thanks Dave. take care & stay well.

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal

[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Chris Albertson]

> On Jul 5, 2023, at 11:36 AM, gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> On 7/5/23 13:29, Thomas J Powderly wrote:
>> Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...
>> Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?
>> I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.
>> LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,
> 
> That seems to be true, but it is not free anymore. So I'm making parts for 
> stuff on 3d printers using OpenSCAD as the design software.  You can be 
> productive quite rapidly in it.

What?   Fusion 360 is still free for personal use or even for commercial use as 
long as the bussines makes less than $50K.

If you want 3D CAD software that can run on Linux then you could try
1) FreeCAD,  Not unlike Fusion 360 but is mre limited and lacks sophisticated 
manufacturing ability
2) OnShape,  Online, runs in a web browser and nit somewhat like FreeCad but 
has ZERO manufacturing ability
3) OpenScad.  Good for very geometric designes that can be described in a 
modeling language.  Good for gears, bushing and such but VERY poor if you 
wanted to maybe make a car body part or a motorcycle engine cover

If the goal is to convert STL files to “real” CAD drawings that can be edited.  
 Fusion is your best bet and even then you have to do a lot of manual work


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Will it run using WINE? https://www.winehq.org/


On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:30:21 AM MDT, Thomas J Powderly 
 wrote: 


Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...

Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?

I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.

LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,

TIA

tomp


On 7/5/23 21:44, gene heskett wrote:
> On 7/5/23 06:50, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
>>
>> This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/
>>
> That appears to be a windows program. Windows is extinct here. ;o)> 
> Thank you.


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Chris Albertson]

> On Jul 5, 2023, at 10:27 AM, Thomas J Powderly  wrote:
> 
> Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...
> 
> Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?

It is easy.  But you need Linux on Intel.  ARM-based Linux will not work

1) install a virtual machine system.  VMware works well and it is free
2) install Windows 11 in the virtual machine.  It is free also as long as you 
don’t care if it is “activated”.  The only problem with non-activated is you 
get nagged to activate it.
3) install Fusion 360 on the virtual Windows 11

It runs surprisingly fast if your Linux machine has enough cores and RAM to run 
both Linux and Windows at the same time.   In VMWare’s setting asign at least 
about 16GB and 4 cores to the Windows VM.   It can work with less but it gets 
slow.

I just moved to an Apple Mac M2 Pro.  This is a 10-core Apple Silicon system.  
A Beta release of Fusion 360 just came out that runs native on Apple Silicon.   
It is very fast now. and also very cost effective.  Apple is MUCH less cost 
than a top of the line Intel i9

A $2000 Intel i9 or Xeon with or 64 GB RAM and fast M.2 based SSD running 
Linux/VMware/Windows/Fusion is very usable for projects like robotics that have 
hundreds of complex 3D parts.   But such a PC is not cheap.   An Apple Mac mini 
configured to cost about $800 to $1,200 will give a better user experience.   I 
actually have both of these here now.   That said, I’d bet simply running 
Windows 11 directly on high-end hardware (with a good GPU) would be even better.

For many simple projects the above is over kill.  Use OpenScad or FreeCAD for 
many projects that have only a few parts and are very geometric.   Fusion 360 
(or the like) beciase needed if you project is something like a 
battery-operated drill that has internal gears, and complex shape housing with 
rubber over-molding.  Fusion is good for work of about the complexity of a 
Millwaulkee power tool.   The Mac or Intel i9 would be powerfull enough to 
Support the design of a typical power tool.For simpler parts less i 
required.

I have another data point at the low end.   An Intel “Core 2” with 8GB RAM and 
integrated graphics from 2014 is just barely able to run a 
VMware/Windows/Fusion stack.  I would not recommend it.   While my 16-core Xeon 
with 64 GB RAM runs it well as does the new Mac. (the Mac being a little faster)



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Dave Matthews]

Fusion 360 is still free for personal use.  The limit is $1000 in sales.
The do defeature some parts like rapids in tool paths.

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal

Dave

On Wed, Jul 5, 2023 at 2:40 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> On 7/5/23 13:29, Thomas J Powderly wrote:
> > Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...
> >
> > Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?
> >
> > I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.
> >
> > LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,
>
> That seems to be true, but it is not free anymore. So I'm making parts
> for stuff on 3d printers using OpenSCAD as the design software.  You can
> be productive quite rapidly in it.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > tomp
> >
> >
> > On 7/5/23 21:44, gene heskett wrote:
> >> On 7/5/23 06:50, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
> >>>
> >>> This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/
> >>>
> >> That appears to be a windows program. Windows is extinct here. ;o)>
> >> Thank you.
> >>>
> >>> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:44:50 AM MDT, gene heskett
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
>  Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of
>  formats.
> >>>
> >>> No thanks for the link Greg, every button on that page leads to a porno
> >>> dl with no exit buttons in sight. Its been compromised, probably by M$.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>> .
> >>
> >> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > .
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/5/23 13:29, Thomas J Powderly wrote:

Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...

Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?

I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.

LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,


That seems to be true, but it is not free anymore. So I'm making parts 
for stuff on 3d printers using OpenSCAD as the design software.  You can 
be productive quite rapidly in it.


TIA

tomp


On 7/5/23 21:44, gene heskett wrote:

On 7/5/23 06:50, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:


This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/

That appears to be a windows program. Windows is extinct here. ;o)> 
Thank you.


On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:44:50 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote:






On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of 
formats.


No thanks for the link Greg, every button on that page leads to a porno
dl with no exit buttons in sight. Its been compromised, probably by M$.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


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Cheers, Gene Heskett.



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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Thomas J Powderly]

Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...

Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?

I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.

LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,

TIA

tomp


On 7/5/23 21:44, gene heskett wrote:

On 7/5/23 06:50, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:


This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/

That appears to be a windows program. Windows is extinct here. ;o)> 
Thank you.


On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:44:50 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote:






On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of 
formats.


No thanks for the link Greg, every button on that page leads to a porno
dl with no exit buttons in sight. Its been compromised, probably by M$.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


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Cheers, Gene Heskett.



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/5/23 06:50, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:


This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/

That appears to be a windows program. Windows is extinct here. ;o)> 
Thank you.


On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:44:50 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote:





On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of formats.


No thanks for the link Greg, every button on that page leads to a porno
dl with no exit buttons in sight. Its been compromised, probably by M$.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Trajectory planner shortcomings

[gene heskett]

On 7/5/23 08:12, Les Newell wrote:
In my experience winding the acceleration up rapidly runs into the law 
of diminishing returns with increased vibration and in the case of 
steppers a higher risk of losing steps.


Les


This is one of the places where the 3 phase stepper/servo really shines. 
2 reasons:
1.wire hem up so if they loose a step, the alarm stops linuxcnc it it 
track useing the alm signal as an e-stop input.
2. the error determines the motor current. So if its working easy, 
little warming, and your power meter doesn't spin as fast. But that also 
means if the error starts to rise, the current to the motor can be 
increased to whatever amps it takes to restore the low error state.


I am presently using 4 of these motors and every time I replace a non 
servo stepper, I've doubled the speed and acceleration that axis of the 
machine can do, and I'm doing it w/o step loss.  Now there are smaller 
ones available in the nema-17's used on 3d printers so two of my bigger 
printers are in the midst to getting these newer motors installed.


On 05/07/2023 12:56, andy pugh wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 at 12:28, Les Newell  
wrote:


Are the machine acceleration limits as high as they can be? That
should help somewhat.





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--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Trajectory planner shortcomings

[gene heskett]

On 7/5/23 06:03, andy pugh wrote:

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 at 09:17,  wrote:


The problem I have is that because 4th axis is rotary motion on my
setup, the way the angular rotation speed is handled means the rotary
axis rotates at a very slow speed (a fraction of what the G1 linear
speed would be).


This isn't related to the lookahead, but rather to the interpretation
of "F" for combined moves.

It is generally better (and safer) to use G93 inverse-time mode for
combined rotary and linear motions.

("Safer" because some CAM software can put a _tiny_ spurious linear
move in, and what was intended as a pure rotary motion becomes a mixed
motion with the F-word interpreted differently)

I don't use _any_ cam sw Andy, I write my own code and have not 
encountered that.  Thank the $DIETY's that write linuxcnc, I don't worry 
about such bugs, so when I encounter one, I RTFM again. And find the bug 
is mine...


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Trajectory planner shortcomings

[gene heskett]

On 7/5/23 04:14, marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk wrote:

On 2023-07-04 23:21, Sam Sokolik wrote:

Lol - then I guess I read too far into it..  I have run 4th axis rotary
motion just fine..




The problem I have is that because 4th axis is rotary motion on my 
setup, the way the angular rotation speed is handled means the rotary 
axis rotates at a very slow speed (a fraction of what the G1 linear 
speed would be). The rotary axis is a rotary table driven by a stepper. 
The table is usually mounted on its side so that I can engrave on the 
circular face of a cylinder.


Marcus


What I found in the screw making scenario, was that the rotary tables 
90/1 gear ratio made it rather worthless as it could not be moved fast 
enough.  So the B axis on my 6040 mill is a 3nm 3phase stepper/servo, 
turning a 5/1 r rv style worm from fleabay. Works as advertised at up to 
2 or 3 hundred revs. A full step on the 3 phase motor is 1.2 degrees /5 
makes .24 degrees which I microstep by 16 so a microstep is about .015 
degrees, more than close enough for the girls I might have gone with. 
And it was cheap to make, the "chuck" for the wooden stick is 3d printed 
square socket a 2x2 sits in.


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.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Trajectory planner shortcomings

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 at 13:14, Les Newell  wrote:
>
> In my experience winding the acceleration up rapidly runs into the law
> of diminishing returns with increased vibration and in the case of
> steppers a higher risk of losing steps.

Yes, that's the point where it is as high as it can be. However many
machines are set _very_ conservatively, sometimes by a couple of
orders of magnitude.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Trajectory planner shortcomings

[Les Newell]

In my experience winding the acceleration up rapidly runs into the law 
of diminishing returns with increased vibration and in the case of 
steppers a higher risk of losing steps.


Les

On 05/07/2023 12:56, andy pugh wrote:

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 at 12:28, Les Newell  wrote:

Are the machine acceleration limits as high as they can be? That
should help somewhat.





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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Trajectory planner shortcomings

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 at 12:28, Les Newell  wrote:

> Due to the shape of the trajectory it has to be done as a series of
> short G1 XYZA moves. Without lookahead these short linear moves really
> slow down movement.

Are the machine acceleration limits as high as they can be? That
should help somewhat.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Trajectory planner shortcomings

[Les Newell]

The reason for Marius' original post is that he is trying to use 
LinuxCNC with SheetCam's 4 axis pipe cutting module. When cutting around 
the corner on square/rectangular section tubes all 4 axes are moving. 
Due to the shape of the trajectory it has to be done as a series of 
short G1 XYZA moves. Without lookahead these short linear moves really 
slow down movement. Unfortunately this is the point where the machine 
should ideally move very fast. The feed rate for each line segment is 
correctly calculated to allow for any rotary movement so inverse time 
mode does not help.


If you are interested, here is the original thread on the PlasmaC forum 
where this issue is being discussed 



Les

On 05/07/2023 11:00, andy pugh wrote:

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 at 09:17,  wrote:

This isn't related to the lookahead, but rather to the interpretation
of "F" for combined moves.

It is generally better (and safer) to use G93 inverse-time mode for
combined rotary and linear motions.

("Safer" because some CAM software can put a _tiny_ spurious linear
move in, and what was intended as a pure rotary motion becomes a mixed
motion with the F-word interpreted differently)





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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/


On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:44:50 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote: 





On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
> Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of formats.

No thanks for the link Greg, every button on that page leads to a porno 
dl with no exit buttons in sight. Its been compromised, probably by M$.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

One more thing about using trueSpace for STL, only work in metric dimensions. 
It doesn't matter if you select millimeters, centimeters, or meters. To STL 
they're all millimeters. The different units in the software just work for your 
own convenience for scale so you don't have to zom in. If you're designing 
something really small, in trueSpace set everything to Meters so the model will 
fill the screen. For larger stuff work in centimeters or millimeters.

If you set trueSpace to Imperial units what it outputs won't load at the right 
size in a slicer because of whatever trueSpace does converting Imperial to 
millimeters when saving to STL. I did one model for 3D printing in Inches to 
figure that out.

The rescale to 8 units issue can cause enlargement as well as shrinking. Create 
a 2 metric unit cube. Save to STL and delete the object from the scene. Open 
the STL and now you have an 8 unit cube.

trueSpace is a solid modeling program. If a mesh isn't solid then the things 
that can be done to it are limited. Fortunately it has an Add Face function. 
Select that and move around the non-solid mesh. When the cursor is over a hole 
it'll highlight the edges. Click and *poof* it's filled. If it has more than 3 
edges it may not be a *flat* face. Sooo, Add Edges.

It has its oddities, plenty of them. But I've used it for years and have 
learned some tricks for modeling while still not coming anywhere near to using 
its full capabilities. I've mainly used it for modeling, not texturing, 
rendering, or animation. Version 6.x and 7.x have the Lightworks rendering 
engine, which at the time it was added to trueSpace at no extra cost, as a 
plugin for Lightwave the Lightworks engine cost more than trueSpace.

I'd love to see some people figure out how to buy trueSpace from Microsoft and 
make it open source. Would probably have to leave out some of the 3rd party 
bits like Lightworks but if the open source builds could be installed over the 
free 7.x release from Microsoft the OS updated files should be able to retain 
the interfaces to the closed source parts.

On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:34:55 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote: 

On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
> Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of formats.

> If you want to give it a whirl there are a few versions of 7.x here 
> http://truespace3d.free.fr/index.php/truespace-7-6/
> I use 6.6 since the Model Side of 7.x is essentially version 6.6 and I never 
> could get into the new 7.x Workspace. It's so different from 2.x through 6.6. 
> Hmmm, I don't remember if Workspace side has the size issue with importing.

I'll look at it, thank you for the link.


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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Trajectory planner shortcomings

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 at 09:17,  wrote:

> The problem I have is that because 4th axis is rotary motion on my
> setup, the way the angular rotation speed is handled means the rotary
> axis rotates at a very slow speed (a fraction of what the G1 linear
> speed would be).

This isn't related to the lookahead, but rather to the interpretation
of "F" for combined moves.

It is generally better (and safer) to use G93 inverse-time mode for
combined rotary and linear motions.

("Safer" because some CAM software can put a _tiny_ spurious linear
move in, and what was intended as a pure rotary motion becomes a mixed
motion with the F-word interpreted differently)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Trajectory planner shortcomings

[marcus . bowman]

On 2023-07-04 23:21, Sam Sokolik wrote:

Lol - then I guess I read too far into it..  I have run 4th axis rotary
motion just fine..




The problem I have is that because 4th axis is rotary motion on my 
setup, the way the angular rotation speed is handled means the rotary 
axis rotates at a very slow speed (a fraction of what the G1 linear 
speed would be). The rotary axis is a rotary table driven by a stepper. 
The table is usually mounted on its side so that I can engrave on the 
circular face of a cylinder.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] G33.1 error then g-code file parsed

[John Dammeyer]

One more addendum to this and then I'll leave it alone.
I played around with a few more Z axis accel and spindle speed values.

It looks like it only starts decelerating the spindle to 0 after the Z
distance has finished.  Then Z decelerates as does the spindle.  Since the Z
position after it's stopped exceeds the Z starting point it then moves the Z
back.  So there's an extra Z move in there that wasn't apparent when the
line following the G31 was G01 Z 0.5.
When I removed the Z 0.5 it became clear the Z has overshot Z=0.0 and is
brought back to Z=0.0..

And it looks like Z tries to track the spindle as it decelerates but can't
keep up when the spindle speed is too high and has a high ACCEL value.  

One other interesting side effect.
S200 M3
G33.1 Z-0.7 K0.05 I12

Tapping is done at 200 RPM and  Z=10 IPM.  The return RPM is 2400 RPM and Z
should be 120 IPM.  Both speeds are within the capability of the system.
However it just stops at the end of the retraction point.  The S200 M3
doesn't occur.  No fault message.

John




> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: July 5, 2023 12:08 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G33.1 error then g-code file parsed
> 
> Hi Gene,
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > That Z following until the spindle is completely stopped is a
> > possibility I hadn't considered. And I don't read src code that easily.
> > I have always considered the sync was released when z had been
> withdrawn
> > to the starting point even though inertia is going to make it over shoot
> > and either motion or the PID's are going to force the reset to the
> > starting position, doing it independently.  So if you're correct then
> > we've both learned something.  And your fix would appear to be the
> > correct one. If the z is your knee, turning that around and bringing it
> > back up to 2 or 4 thou is the hardest part of the job.
> >
> > I also don't have any machines with a heavy knee. Out of sight, out of
> > mind. I'll get my coat now.
> >
> 
> I've done some other tests too.  With the reduced acceleration on the
> spindle it takes a while now for it to go from 0 to 3000 RPM.  Here's
what's
> interesting. If I tell it S0 it sets the speed to 0 and does the M5 and
stops
> instantly.  If I do an S1 it slows from 3000 RPM down to 1 RPM and no M5.
> Now if I then do an M5 it stops.  All that makes sense.
> 
> Next.  I have it running at S1200 M4 (CCW).  I then tall it S200 M3.  I
get the
> slow smooth deceleration and then change in direction and acceleration
back
> up to 200 RPM with the new ACCEL values.  Still fairly smooth.
> 
> Therefore I'm guessing that at the end of the I6 which is turning 1200 RPM
> CCW the internal behavior is like immediately executing an M3 with
tracking
> disabled since we no longer want the Z to move the work into the tap
again.
> (or the tap into the work).
> 
> If I put the higher spindle accel values back the change from 600 RPM CCW
to
> 200 RPM CW (the original M3 speed for tapping) is almost instant.
> 
> So why might that be?  My theory is that Z tracks the spindle until it's
reached
> the original start position.
> 
> G33.1 Z-0.7 K0.05 I3.0
> Let's take a look at trajectory planning here remembering like threading
on a
> lathe the Z axis tracks the spindle speed.  The question is what does it
do as
> it's unscrewing the tap.
> 1.  The hole was -0.7" deep.
> 2. Z takes 0.1" to decelerate at 30 ipm (the I3 speed) so starts to
decelerate at
> Z=-0.1 to reach Z0.0.
> 3. The trajectory planner should decelerate the spindle to 0 RPM during
that
> last  0.100" Z axis motion using the Z ACCEL value
> 4. When Z is back at the start (Z=0.000) the spindle should also be
stopped
> and at this point the G33.1 command is complete..
> 5. Except we have to put the spindle back to where we were when it started
> which was S200 M3.
> 
> Except maybe, the system issues the S200 M3 at the -0.1" Z position
> assuming the Z will finish it's deceleration and the spindle will stop and
go
> back to CW at 200 RPM.
> Z (Joint 2) is still tracking the spindle which is now decelerating way
too fast
> and we get the following error.
> 
> Or maybe at Z=-0.1 the system issues an M5 to stop the spindle which it
does
> almost instantly and Z can't keep up and a following error.
> 
> When I change the spindle acceleration so it slows down to zero at a rate
that
> Z can keep up with and I don't get a following error.
> 
> Anyway, the behaviour is now repeatable and I suspect how the I parameter
> is handled with respect to tracking is a problem.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the system knows that at Z ACCEL values it takes say 0.1" to come to a
halt
> then it likely tells spindle to now slow down to 0 as the Z axis
decelerates to 0
> arriving at the Z starting point of the tapping process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users m

Re: [Emc-users] G33.1 error then g-code file parsed

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Gene,

> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> That Z following until the spindle is completely stopped is a
> possibility I hadn't considered. And I don't read src code that easily.
> I have always considered the sync was released when z had been withdrawn
> to the starting point even though inertia is going to make it over shoot
> and either motion or the PID's are going to force the reset to the
> starting position, doing it independently.  So if you're correct then
> we've both learned something.  And your fix would appear to be the
> correct one. If the z is your knee, turning that around and bringing it
> back up to 2 or 4 thou is the hardest part of the job.
> 
> I also don't have any machines with a heavy knee. Out of sight, out of
> mind. I'll get my coat now.
>

I've done some other tests too.  With the reduced acceleration on the spindle 
it takes a while now for it to go from 0 to 3000 RPM.  Here's what's 
interesting. If I tell it S0 it sets the speed to 0 and does the M5 and stops 
instantly.  If I do an S1 it slows from 3000 RPM down to 1 RPM and no M5.
Now if I then do an M5 it stops.  All that makes sense.

Next.  I have it running at S1200 M4 (CCW).  I then tall it S200 M3.  I get the 
slow smooth deceleration and then change in direction and acceleration back up 
to 200 RPM with the new ACCEL values.  Still fairly smooth.

Therefore I'm guessing that at the end of the I6 which is turning 1200 RPM CCW 
the internal behavior is like immediately executing an M3 with tracking 
disabled since we no longer want the Z to move the work into the tap again.  
(or the tap into the work).

If I put the higher spindle accel values back the change from 600 RPM CCW to 
200 RPM CW (the original M3 speed for tapping) is almost instant.

So why might that be?  My theory is that Z tracks the spindle until it's 
reached the original start position.

G33.1 Z-0.7 K0.05 I3.0
Let's take a look at trajectory planning here remembering like threading on a 
lathe the Z axis tracks the spindle speed.  The question is what does it do as 
it's unscrewing the tap.
1.  The hole was -0.7" deep.  
2. Z takes 0.1" to decelerate at 30 ipm (the I3 speed) so starts to decelerate 
at Z=-0.1 to reach Z0.0.
3. The trajectory planner should decelerate the spindle to 0 RPM during that 
last  0.100" Z axis motion using the Z ACCEL value
4. When Z is back at the start (Z=0.000) the spindle should also be stopped and 
at this point the G33.1 command is complete..
5. Except we have to put the spindle back to where we were when it started 
which was S200 M3.

Except maybe, the system issues the S200 M3 at the -0.1" Z position assuming 
the Z will finish it's deceleration and the spindle will stop and go back to CW 
at 200 RPM.
Z (Joint 2) is still tracking the spindle which is now decelerating way too 
fast and we get the following error.

Or maybe at Z=-0.1 the system issues an M5 to stop the spindle which it does 
almost instantly and Z can't keep up and a following error.

When I change the spindle acceleration so it slows down to zero at a rate that 
Z can keep up with and I don't get a following error.

Anyway, the behaviour is now repeatable and I suspect how the I parameter is 
handled with respect to tracking is a problem.

John




If the system knows that at Z ACCEL values it takes say 0.1" to come to a halt 
then it likely tells spindle to now slow down to 0 as the Z axis decelerates to 
0 arriving at the Z starting point of the tapping process.
 



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