Re: [Emc-users] Acceleration Settings?
On Wed, 15 May 2024, John Dammeyer wrote: Date: Wed, 15 May 2024 16:57:44 -0700 From: John Dammeyer Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acceleration Settings? -Original Message- From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] Sent: May 15, 2024 4:20 PM To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acceleration Settings? On 5/15/24 12:23, Todd Zuercher via Emc-users wrote: > I'm trying to figure out something goofy that seems to be going on with my acceleration settings. > I'm running Linuxcnc 2.9.0 and Axis ui. > I have all of the max_acceleration settings set for 20.0 (and stepgen_maxaccel = 25), and for some reason everything only moves with an acceleration of 10 ipsps for G0 and G1 moves (confirmed with Halscope), but jogging does go at 20. Is there normal behavior or am I missing some setting somewhere that is limiting the acceleration? > In the latest LinuxCNC there are TWO places that have accel and max velocity settings.?? Jogging is in the JOINT_x part, and CNC moves are in the AXIS_x section.?? In general, you want the same settings in both JOINT and AXIS sections. Jon That's interesting. What is then the major difference between Joint and Axis? Just jogging parameters? John LinuxCNC versions 2.8 and > separate joints (think of these as actuators or motors) and Axis. Axis are normally cartesian or rotary axis. This makes sense for machines where joint and axis do not map exactly, such as gantry devices that may have duplicated X,Y,Z joints (so up to 6) but only 3 axis or say a CoreXY laser cutter where the joints and cartesian axis are related by a kinematics equation. Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens?
On Fri, 10 May 2024, John Dammeyer wrote: Date: Fri, 10 May 2024 18:26:21 -0700 From: John Dammeyer Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? What type of output driver is used on the 7i84? John The 7I84/7I84D use the (now obsolete) NCV7608 It has flyback protection (turnoff speed modulation) but that's only good to ~60 mA so for more you need flyback diodes It, replacement (7I84U) uses the NCV7224 The 7724 is a bit nicer as it can do sink,source, or push-pull under software control (and 350 mA on inductive or non-inductive loads with no flyback diodes) -Original Message- From: Peter Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com] Sent: May 10, 2024 1:54 PM To: Todd Zuercher Cc: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? On Fri, 10 May 2024, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Fri, 10 May 2024 20:40:53 + From: Todd Zuercher To: Peter Wallace Cc: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Subject: RE: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? Peter, I've ran into another bit of a snag. I have a couple of 24v relays from Automationdirect. The resistance on the coils is about 635ohms. I thought that the outputs on the 7i84 were supposed to be ok with running a small relay with up to about 40mA without needing a flyback diode. It's close but just under that. Well, I've managed to kill 3 of the outputs with those relays (the outputs are stuck always on). I've put a couple of diodes on the relay coils, I hope that works and I don't ruin any more. What does it take to replace the chip or chips that would be damaged by this? 40 mA should be fine, it is possible this is the card that had power applied backwards? We can replace the chips Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: Peter Wallace Sent: Monday, April 15, 2024 5:09 PM To: Todd Zuercher Cc: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Subject: RE: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. On Mon, 15 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:22:03 + From: Todd Zuercher To: Peter Wallace , Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Subject: RE: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? Thanks Peter, We've had this 7i85s for quite a while, and it must be one of the early ones because I see DS34C87TM chips on it. I'm not sure I like the idea of using them single ended. But is a +5v-0v single ended signal actually any better or even much different than a +/-3v differential signal? How hard would it be to move the last steepen over to the 7i88 and have all 8 of these stepgens on one card? I am not planning on using the Smart Serial output on the 7i88. The 3 servos have been working on the 7i85S for years and can stay there. Differential is needed and advised for servo drives with line receiver inputs, however, with optocoupled input step/dir drives, there is little advantage to differential mode. With optocoupled input step/dir drives the input will only see ~3V drive in differential mode with the DS34C87 driver, so its better to run in single ended mode with the 7I85S sinking so you get full 5V drive. I am using the Smart Serial connection on the 7i85s to connect a 7i84. If all else fails I can simply set all of the other steppers the same as the slow one and leave it be. Even the slow one is working as fast or faster than I was hoping it would, but a little more safety margin would be nice. The drives are likely not rated for 3V input so you would probably be better off if you ran single ended. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: Peter Wallace Sent: Monday, April 15, 2024 3:41 PM To: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. On Mon, 15 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher via Emc-users wrote: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 19:27:19 + From: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? I was working on this machine where I need a whole bunch of extra stepgens. I am using a Mesa 7i85S and a 7i88 connected to a 5i25 card. I was testing some of the stepper drives and I noticed that with one of the drive/motor combinations I am needing to use slightly longer step timing and lower max velocity. I thought that this was odd, because all of the drives, motors, and mechanicals are the same for all of the ones I was testing. The only difference is that the slower one was connected to a stepgen on the 7i85S and all of the others are on the 7i88. So just for curiosity sake I checked the voltage at the input terminals of step/dir signals of the drive. On the terminals conne
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens?
On Fri, 10 May 2024, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Fri, 10 May 2024 20:40:53 + From: Todd Zuercher To: Peter Wallace Cc: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Subject: RE: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? Peter, I've ran into another bit of a snag. I have a couple of 24v relays from Automationdirect. The resistance on the coils is about 635ohms. I thought that the outputs on the 7i84 were supposed to be ok with running a small relay with up to about 40mA without needing a flyback diode. It's close but just under that. Well, I've managed to kill 3 of the outputs with those relays (the outputs are stuck always on). I've put a couple of diodes on the relay coils, I hope that works and I don't ruin any more. What does it take to replace the chip or chips that would be damaged by this? 40 mA should be fine, it is possible this is the card that had power applied backwards? We can replace the chips Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: Peter Wallace Sent: Monday, April 15, 2024 5:09 PM To: Todd Zuercher Cc: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Subject: RE: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. On Mon, 15 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:22:03 + From: Todd Zuercher To: Peter Wallace , Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Subject: RE: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? Thanks Peter, We've had this 7i85s for quite a while, and it must be one of the early ones because I see DS34C87TM chips on it. I'm not sure I like the idea of using them single ended. But is a +5v-0v single ended signal actually any better or even much different than a +/-3v differential signal? How hard would it be to move the last steepen over to the 7i88 and have all 8 of these stepgens on one card? I am not planning on using the Smart Serial output on the 7i88. The 3 servos have been working on the 7i85S for years and can stay there. Differential is needed and advised for servo drives with line receiver inputs, however, with optocoupled input step/dir drives, there is little advantage to differential mode. With optocoupled input step/dir drives the input will only see ~3V drive in differential mode with the DS34C87 driver, so its better to run in single ended mode with the 7I85S sinking so you get full 5V drive. I am using the Smart Serial connection on the 7i85s to connect a 7i84. If all else fails I can simply set all of the other steppers the same as the slow one and leave it be. Even the slow one is working as fast or faster than I was hoping it would, but a little more safety margin would be nice. The drives are likely not rated for 3V input so you would probably be better off if you ran single ended. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: Peter Wallace Sent: Monday, April 15, 2024 3:41 PM To: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. On Mon, 15 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher via Emc-users wrote: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 19:27:19 + From: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? I was working on this machine where I need a whole bunch of extra stepgens. I am using a Mesa 7i85S and a 7i88 connected to a 5i25 card. I was testing some of the stepper drives and I noticed that with one of the drive/motor combinations I am needing to use slightly longer step timing and lower max velocity. I thought that this was odd, because all of the drives, motors, and mechanicals are the same for all of the ones I was testing. The only difference is that the slower one was connected to a stepgen on the 7i85S and all of the others are on the 7i88. So just for curiosity sake I checked the voltage at the input terminals of step/dir signals of the drive. On the terminals connected to the 7i88 I found +/-5v, and on the one connected to the 7i85S there is only +/-3v. This is the only difference I've been able to find between the different joints in question. Does it make sense that the voltages would be different on the step/dir outputs between the 7i85s and the 7i88? Does it make sense that the difference would cause a difference in the required step timing? Why might there be a difference between the output voltage on the two cards? Both cards are getting their 5v from the 5i25. The 7i85S is also connected to 3 step/gen servo drives and their encoder's feedbacks. Is it possible that the 5v drain from the encoders might be causing the lower voltage on the 7i85S's outputs? I would check the 5V rail at the 7I85S card, and if its low, power the 7I85S directly from 5V rather the through the parallel cable. ALso the very first lot (many years ago) of 7I85S
Re: [Emc-users] Mb2hal 2.9?
On Tue, 7 May 2024, Todd Zuercher via Emc-users wrote: Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 19:59:55 + From: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: [Emc-users] Mb2hal 2.9? The machine that I've been working on updating from 2.7 to 2.9 has hit a snag. The one thing I didn't change now seems to be giving me the most trouble. The machine has 8 vfds for running 8 router spindles, they are/were connected to Linuxcnc using Mb2hal and a usb RS485 dongle. It was working find on the old pc running Ubuntu, RTAi, and Linuxcnc 2.7. I copied the old mb2hal.ini and it's associated hal file over to the new machine and added them to the config, but I can not seem to establish communication between Linuxcnc and the drives. Starting Linuxcnc from the terminal, and it pukes out this string of error messages, so fast that I can't find any other possibly more informative error messages further up the log, (beacaue I can't scroll past all this other junk.) My mb2hal config has 32 transactions, and there is an error msg like below for each of the 32, then the list repeats ad nauseum. Any one have any ideas what's going on? The PC is running Debian 12, with Linuxcnc installed from the Debian repos. mb2hal get_tx_connection ERR: mb_tx_num[0] mb_links[0] cannot connect to link, ret[-1] fd[-1] mb2hal get_tx_connection ERR: mb_tx_num[1] mb_links[0] cannot connect to link, ret[-1] fd[-1] mb2hal get_tx_connection ERR: mb_tx_num[2] mb_links[0] cannot connect to link, ret[-1] fd[-1] mb2hal get_tx_connection ERR: mb_tx_num[3] mb_links[0] cannot connect to link, ret[-1] fd[-1] mb2hal get_tx_connection ERR: mb_tx_num[4] mb_links[0] cannot connect to link, ret[-1] fd[-1] mb2hal get_tx_connection ERR: mb_tx_num[5] mb_links[0] cannot connect to link, ret[-1] fd[-1] mb2hal get_tx_connection ERR: mb_tx_num[6] mb_links[0] cannot connect to link, ret[-1] fd[-1] mb2hal get_tx_connection ERR: mb_tx_num[7] mb_links[0] cannot connect to link, ret[-1] fd[-1] mb2hal get_tx_connection ERR: mb_tx_num[8] mb_links[0] cannot connect to link, ret[-1] fd[-1] Moving the RS485 dongle back to the old pc and loading the mb2hal config there gives no errors. So it shouldn't be a hardware or config issue that I'm aware of. Did something significant change in mb2hal between 2.7 and 2.9 that would require a change to the mb2hal configuration files? Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc.<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php> 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 Could this be some permissions or device name error with USB--> RS-485 device driver? Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Big Tree Tech Re: Mesa Card Stepgens?
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 13:33:20 +0200 From: Nicklas SB Karlsson Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Big Tree Tech Re: Mesa Card Stepgens? ... If it can revert back to the way LinuxCNC works ( which requires realtime), there is no real advantage to queueing at all. Queueing is used to make up for the lack of realtime. For example Mach3 can do decent spindle synchronized motion, but only if this feature is implemented in the interface hardware. This would be a big step backwards for LinuxCNC. And then it will come back to the problem how to send enough queued data to actuators. Queue may make sense if for example sending position commands to follow over an Ethernet network as position is small compared to the header. In that case sending many positions in one message reduce overhead. Nicklas Karlsson The equivalent of sending many positions is already done to some extent with interfaces that interpolate (or are velocity or velocity+acceleration controlled) This includes most stepgens, Ethercat servo drives etc Queueing does make sense for some higher data rate applications like motion synchronized video data for engraving. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Big Tree Tech Re: Mesa Card Stepgens?
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024, Chris Albertson wrote: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 17:50:46 -0700 From: Chris Albertson To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Cc: Peter Wallace Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Big Tree Tech Re: Mesa Card Stepgens? No it does not fail, we can always send new commands in real time to be executed ??right away?? (at the current time) and make the queued execution system look and act as if there were no queue. A command taged with the current time will jump to the front of the queue. The system also allows for very delayed execution of commands, like ??in five minutes??. This works well because you can queue a macro to do something like poll the voltage of a battery and then place itself back in the queue for five minutes later. But as said with a current time or a special tag that says ??now?? it reverts back to the way LCNC works. Remember that a time-tagged queue is not executed in order. It is not FIFO, so a command that is placed in the queue, even with 100 commands waiting does not need to wait for the others. If it can revert back to the way LinuxCNC works ( which requires realtime), there is no real advantage to queueing at all. Queueing is used to make up for the lack of realtime. For example Mach3 can do decent spindle synchronized motion, but only if this feature is implemented in the interface hardware. This would be a big step backwards for LinuxCNC. On Apr 17, 2024, at 5:05??PM, Ray Henry wrote: On Wed, 2024-04-17 at 09:13 -0700, Peter Wallace wrote: LCNC really should be doing this. If the Measa cards would maintain a queue and a synchronized clock we would not care at all about latency. Klipper proves the idea works. This is basically what Mach 3/4 do This fails as soon as you need the control to repond to feedback in real time (Spindle synchronized motion, plasma THC etc etc) Its possible of course to build this feedback into the interface hardware, but there is a big advantage to having this feedback in LinuxCNC where is works with any interface hardware, is extensible and open, and where the feedback control math/logic has unlimited resources. Peter Wallace The message on my 25+ year old coffee cup from the NIST Intelligent Systems Division reminds me at least three times a week to "SENSE -> MODEL -> ACT." in that order. Thanks. Peter. Ray ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Home to index triggers following error
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 18:14:10 + From: Todd Zuercher To: Peter Wallace , Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Subject: RE: [Emc-users] Home to index triggers following error The machine is currently running Linuxcnc 2.7, but the Mesa cards, are significantly older, dating back to the Linuxcnc 2.5 era. I'm not sure how comfortable a feel about updating this machine to current at the moment. It is running 32-bit RTAI, and I'm not confident I'll be able to achieve the necessary latencies with the currently available mainstream 64-bit real time kernels required for the current version of Linuxcnc on the machine's current computer. All of my actively running Linuxcnc machines are still on 2.7. I am in the midst of a major overhaul of one machine that will be current version of Linuxcnc. But I'm very hesitant to pull the other running machines out of production to upgrade until after I have more experience working with the newer versions. (JA and the move to requiring 64-bit kernels were very big changes.) Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 Yeah, its not a firmware issue so the old cards should be fine, but the driver fix is only in 2.9. Theres no specific reason the (one line) fix could not be applied to 2.7/RTAI except I dont have a build environment for that anymore. Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Home to index triggers following error
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher via Emc-users wrote: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 17:00:31 + From: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Home to index triggers following error Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've had to live with this on a machine that I'm using cascaded double PID loops on. I have the velocity loop PIDs running in a fast floating point base thread to help with the tuning of some cantankerous torque mode servos. The position loops are still in the servo thread (because I can't run the whole servo thread as fast as I can the floating point base thread.) Reading/writing to the Mesa hardware in a faster loop than the servo thread seems to break the f-error disable for the encoder reset. I think because the encoder reset doesn't always occur when the it is expecting it or something to that effect. I've tried just running a faster servo-thread, but I can run the lighter floating point base thread about 4x faster than I can the whole servo-thread. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 What LinuxCNC version? There was a bug in the hostmot driver index handling that was fixed fairly recently (a couple of years ago) -Original Message- From: andy pugh Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 8:47 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Home to index triggers following error [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 at 12:45, Tomaz T. wrote: now it doesn't trigger following error any more (homing completes successfully), interesting thing is, that on first attempt of homing after fresh starting LinuxCNC I see quite large spike on f-error when hitting index pulse, this large spike doesn't accrue on any more on second attempt of homing or later, only after fresh start and on first one. It will only trigger the f-error if the difference between the current encoder position and the zero position is larger than the f-error limit. Once you have homed once jump will be at most a few encoder counts. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users=05%7C02%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cebfea5c501924f029c5308dc5edcaa7a%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638489549065500531%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=iNxGqNzkAKwXtD4PmQ2hHgkBuriUCq88Wl5WraibpAA%3D=0<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users> ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Big Tree Tech Re: Mesa Card Stepgens?
LCNC really should be doing this. If the Measa cards would maintain a queue and a synchronized clock we would not care at all about latency. Klipper proves the idea works. This is basically what Mach 3/4 do This fails as soon as you need the control to repond to feedback in real time (Spindle synchronized motion, plasma THC etc etc) Its possible of course to build this feedback into the interface hardware, but there is a big advantage to having this feedback in LinuxCNC where is works with any interface hardware, is extensible and open, and where the feedback control math/logic has unlimited resources. Peter Wallace ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens?
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:22:03 + From: Todd Zuercher To: Peter Wallace , Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Subject: RE: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? Thanks Peter, We've had this 7i85s for quite a while, and it must be one of the early ones because I see DS34C87TM chips on it. I'm not sure I like the idea of using them single ended. But is a +5v-0v single ended signal actually any better or even much different than a +/-3v differential signal? How hard would it be to move the last steepen over to the 7i88 and have all 8 of these stepgens on one card? I am not planning on using the Smart Serial output on the 7i88. The 3 servos have been working on the 7i85S for years and can stay there. Differential is needed and advised for servo drives with line receiver inputs, however, with optocoupled input step/dir drives, there is little advantage to differential mode. With optocoupled input step/dir drives the input will only see ~3V drive in differential mode with the DS34C87 driver, so its better to run in single ended mode with the 7I85S sinking so you get full 5V drive. I am using the Smart Serial connection on the 7i85s to connect a 7i84. If all else fails I can simply set all of the other steppers the same as the slow one and leave it be. Even the slow one is working as fast or faster than I was hoping it would, but a little more safety margin would be nice. The drives are likely not rated for 3V input so you would probably be better off if you ran single ended. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: Peter Wallace Sent: Monday, April 15, 2024 3:41 PM To: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. On Mon, 15 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher via Emc-users wrote: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 19:27:19 + From: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? I was working on this machine where I need a whole bunch of extra stepgens. I am using a Mesa 7i85S and a 7i88 connected to a 5i25 card. I was testing some of the stepper drives and I noticed that with one of the drive/motor combinations I am needing to use slightly longer step timing and lower max velocity. I thought that this was odd, because all of the drives, motors, and mechanicals are the same for all of the ones I was testing. The only difference is that the slower one was connected to a stepgen on the 7i85S and all of the others are on the 7i88. So just for curiosity sake I checked the voltage at the input terminals of step/dir signals of the drive. On the terminals connected to the 7i88 I found +/-5v, and on the one connected to the 7i85S there is only +/-3v. This is the only difference I've been able to find between the different joints in question. Does it make sense that the voltages would be different on the step/dir outputs between the 7i85s and the 7i88? Does it make sense that the difference would cause a difference in the required step timing? Why might there be a difference between the output voltage on the two cards? Both cards are getting their 5v from the 5i25. The 7i85S is also connected to 3 step/gen servo drives and their encoder's feedbacks. Is it possible that the 5v drain from the encoders might be causing the lower voltage on the 7i85S's outputs? I would check the 5V rail at the 7I85S card, and if its low, power the 7I85S directly from 5V rather the through the parallel cable. ALso the very first lot (many years ago) of 7I85S cards were built with DS34C87 drivers which do not have full 5V drive. If you have this card, you can get 5V drive by using single ended sinking outputs and 5V+ to drive step+ and 7i85s step- to drive step- Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc.<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F www.pgrahamdunn.com%2Findex.php=05%7C02%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com %7Cc87909c9a4b6452a9e7008dc5d83f6a5%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43 %7C0%7C0%7C638488068569795566%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C= %2BkgiY%2FC9l6%2BqT2O6bnpxqPKur7Myu6%2BaULa01B910Ck%3D=0> 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users=05%7C02%7Ctoddz% 40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cc87909c9a4b6452a9e7008dc5d83f6a5%7C5758544c573f47c ebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638488068569804807%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C 0%7C%7C%7C=sb3DbNBIrWxq9OqYRv32Q6KHka%2FvXqAzp1QV8vF5EeA%3D rved=0
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens?
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher via Emc-users wrote: Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 19:27:19 + From: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa Card Stepgens? I was working on this machine where I need a whole bunch of extra stepgens. I am using a Mesa 7i85S and a 7i88 connected to a 5i25 card. I was testing some of the stepper drives and I noticed that with one of the drive/motor combinations I am needing to use slightly longer step timing and lower max velocity. I thought that this was odd, because all of the drives, motors, and mechanicals are the same for all of the ones I was testing. The only difference is that the slower one was connected to a stepgen on the 7i85S and all of the others are on the 7i88. So just for curiosity sake I checked the voltage at the input terminals of step/dir signals of the drive. On the terminals connected to the 7i88 I found +/-5v, and on the one connected to the 7i85S there is only +/-3v. This is the only difference I've been able to find between the different joints in question. Does it make sense that the voltages would be different on the step/dir outputs between the 7i85s and the 7i88? Does it make sense that the difference would cause a difference in the required step timing? Why might there be a difference between the output voltage on the two cards? Both cards are getting their 5v from the 5i25. The 7i85S is also connected to 3 step/gen servo drives and their encoder's feedbacks. Is it possible that the 5v drain from the encoders might be causing the lower voltage on the 7i85S's outputs? I would check the 5V rail at the 7I85S card, and if its low, power the 7I85S directly from 5V rather the through the parallel cable. ALso the very first lot (many years ago) of 7I85S cards were built with DS34C87 drivers which do not have full 5V drive. If you have this card, you can get 5V drive by using single ended sinking outputs and 5V+ to drive step+ and 7i85s step- to drive step- Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc.<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php> 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 7i84 Trouble?
On Tue, 2 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2024 15:01:10 + From: Todd Zuercher To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" , Peter Wallace Subject: RE: [Emc-users] 7i84 Trouble? Went and powered up the machine again today to give it a another look, and now I only get the two yellow LEDs on the 7i84 card (no red or green) and Linuxcnc isn't seeing the 7i84. Yesterday it was at least half working with the proper LEDs on at the correct times (two yellow, and red with Linuxcnc not running, and two yellow, and blinking green with Linuxcnc. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 Sounds like maybe the processor has failed in some way (flash memory failure maybe, rare but can happen) I will issue a RMA for repair/replacement later today -Original Message- From: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2024 7:57 AM To: Peter Wallace ; Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 7i84 Trouble? [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. Yes I have both VFIELDA and VFIELDB connected (I have a jumper wire between them). Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message----- From: Peter Wallace Sent: Monday, April 01, 2024 5:30 PM To: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 7i84 Trouble? [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher via Emc-users wrote: Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2024 20:49:01 + From: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: [Emc-users] 7i84 Trouble? I am working at trying to set up a 7i84 io card on a machine that I am refitting and I'm having some trouble with it. The outputs all seem to be working correctly, but I can only seem to get half of the inputs to work. I have 24v DC to all of the Vin terminals. The inputs on TB2 seem to all be ok. But the ones on TB3 are not. In Hal, the 1st 8 inputs (0-7) all read false (no mater what I connect to them, and the 2nd 8 all read true (8-15) no mater what is connected to them.> The 7i84 is connected to the SS port on a 7i85S that is connected to a 5i25. Any ideas what I might have messed up? My best guess is that while I was wiring up and testing limit switches I may have had a stray loose wire with 24v touch against some place it shouldn't have. (In hind sight, I probably should have turned off the 24v while I was working on that.) Do you have both VFIELDA and VFIELDB connected? sounds like an issue there Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc.<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F http://www.p/ grahamdunn.com%2F=05%7C02%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ce662d0e5ba5 4462b099908dc53111a7a%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638 476580144714557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2 luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=2O6%2FRohCfn9f ji0EZDM7Hp6nCBbvIyFU4fmDXUxGqyE%3D=0%2Findex.php=05%7C02 %7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com %7C186c62e7c8e744291a7008dc5292f955%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43 %7C0%7C0%7C638476038415014930%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C= ccrEHvkZWcpQ9FU9Z6v%2B0A9SBejjH0hFMty1aNEg520%3D=0> 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://list/ %2F=05%7C02%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ce662d0e5ba54462b099908dc5 3111a7a%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C63847658014472077 0%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=z0vE8WEGy63egCOnOyoYxHVqMMWV 5r2QCHznB0Lw2LY%3D=0 s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users=05%7C02%7Ctoddz% 40pgrahamdunn.com%7C186c62e7c8e744291a7008dc5292f955%7C5758544c573f47c ebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638476038415023302%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C 0%7C%7C%7C=BVn076kBBUwINxm1WL%2BuwiDZQhSzcDPl5KdAHBvBjOE%3D rved=0 Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 7i84 Trouble?
On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Todd Zuercher via Emc-users wrote: Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2024 20:49:01 + From: Todd Zuercher via Emc-users To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Cc: Todd Zuercher Subject: [Emc-users] 7i84 Trouble? I am working at trying to set up a 7i84 io card on a machine that I am refitting and I'm having some trouble with it. The outputs all seem to be working correctly, but I can only seem to get half of the inputs to work. I have 24v DC to all of the Vin terminals. The inputs on TB2 seem to all be ok. But the ones on TB3 are not. In Hal, the 1st 8 inputs (0-7) all read false (no mater what I connect to them, and the 2nd 8 all read true (8-15) no mater what is connected to them.> The 7i84 is connected to the SS port on a 7i85S that is connected to a 5i25. Any ideas what I might have messed up? My best guess is that while I was wiring up and testing limit switches I may have had a stray loose wire with 24v touch against some place it shouldn't have. (In hind sight, I probably should have turned off the 24v while I was working on that.) Do you have both VFIELDA and VFIELDB connected? sounds like an issue there Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc.<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php> 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i84 Field IO?
On Sat, 9 Mar 2024, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2024 05:02:49 + From: Todd Zuercher Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i84 Field IO? Peter, But the only 5v output I need is for the servo drive enable(s) All the limits are 24v prox sensors etc. You can split the I/O on a 7I84 so half (16 inputa and 8 outputs) are 5V and the other half are 24V Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i84 Field IO?
On Fri, 8 Mar 2024, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:59:14 + From: Todd Zuercher Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i84 Field IO? Hello, I am working at connecting a 7i84 IO card to a machine that I am refitting a newer Linuxcnc PC to. The old PC used an ISA card for IO. That will no longer be an option with a newer PC. My questions, the servo drives used 5v TTL signals for IO signals specifically the ready/fault output, and the enable input. How should I interface these with the new 7i84 card (which is using 24v field power)? The ready/fault output seems simple enough. It is an "open collector outputs without pull-up resistors, they are rated for switching non-inductive loads up to 40V at a maximum of 100mA" (quote from the drive's manual). So I simply need to add a 24v pullup for each of those signals. The question is what size pullup resistor should I use? The harder question for me is how to handle the 5v drive enables? Would it be best just to connect them to via a relay? Or would there be a better way? Other Mesa cards in this system, a 5i25, 7i85S, and 7i88. Both parallel port headers are used on the 5i25. The smart serial port on the 7i85s is used to connect the 7i84. All of the step/dir outputs on the 7i88 are being used. The only IO not being used are on the 7i84, one encoder input and one step/dir output pair on the 7i85s. Would it be ok to try to use one of the free the step or dir outputs as the 5v enable signal for all 3 servo drives or is a relay on one of the 7i84 outputs a better idea? Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc.<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php> 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users You can use a 7I84 with 5V I/O In this case you supply VIN with 12 or 24V but supply VFIELDA and VFIELDB with 5V This will make the I/O all 5V If you happen to have a REV A 7I84 you can run the whole card on 5V only (VIN,VFIELDA,VFIELDB) (none of this applies to the 7I84D) Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] MESA card suggestions
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users wrote: Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 17:14:51 -0500 From: alanmthomason--- via Emc-users To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" Cc: alanmthoma...@icloud.com Subject: [Emc-users] MESA card suggestions Hi There. I am looking for a suggestion for the best MESA card to be used with an ethernet connection 4axes Teknic servo / stepper taking a step/direction input of 5 to 24V Ideally this would be in a format that I could mount in a simple enclosure. 3digital inputs per axis, so 12inputs 1 additional digital output. I will be using a fresh build of linuxcnc on a 64bit Ubuntu platform. Thanks very much, Alan ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users As Andy suggested, a 7I96S is close but shy of one input. If the three inputs per axis include limits, you could save inputs by sharing limit inputs between axis, In addition you can share a limit and home on the same axis. With maximum sharing you could get away with only 5 inputs (4 home switches and a combined limit input) Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Trajectory planning
On Thu, 23 Nov 2023, John Dammeyer wrote: Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2023 17:07:57 -0800 From: John Dammeyer Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" Subject: [Emc-users] Trajectory planning Quick question here. The HAL file has two time intervals I believe in nanoseconds? BASE_PERIOD = 24000 SERVO_PERIOD = 100 So BASE_PERIOD is about 41.67kHz and SERVO_PERIOD is 1kHz? Yes I'm guessing the encoder edges are counted between BASE_PERIOD Ticks to determine spindle velocity? Is that correct? Yes That the trajectory planner calculates a new velocity relative to the spindle every SERVO_PERIOD? In other words the step rate to say the Z axis for threading is changed (or left the same) every 1mS. Yes Have I got that right? Just looking for an overall simple description. Yep Thanks John ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.9 is Released
On Sun, 5 Nov 2023, andy pugh wrote: Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 00:39:13 + From: andy pugh Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.9 is Released LinuxCNC 2.9.1 has been released Thanks for all you hard work on this. Its great to have an official release that leaves the Python 2/3 mess behind Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses?
On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, John Dammeyer wrote: Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 09:12:46 -0700 From: John Dammeyer Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses? This might be a silly question but if you only want to move it one step then does the step line stay high? When does it go low? After all the next step might be in 30 minutes so should it go low in 15 minutes? That's quite the lookahead. Enquiring minds wish to know. ;-) John In square wave mode, the step pin state can be in the active state indefinately (when stopped) How low it's actual frequency can be depends on the hardware. On Mesa hardware and a 100 MHz base clock the lowest settable frequency is about 1 step per 40 seconds (100e6/2^32) but since there is high resolution position feedback (1/65536ths of a step) LinuxCNCs control loop can dither between stopped and the 1/40 Hz minimum at 1/servo period rate to get much lower actual step rates (days per step) -Original Message- From: Peter Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com] Sent: October 25, 2023 8:35 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses? On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 15:15:36 + From: Todd Zuercher Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" us...@lists.sourceforge.net> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses? Peter, Thanks, But is it even going to be worth the effort? Since I'm sure the regular minimum pulse length signal is still going to at least work albeit with some possible theoretical performance limitations. I may not even require step rates beyond where this is a non-issue? Well since you can certainly get near square waves at the maximum speed with the current setup, it doesnt seem that much is gained by always having square wave step signals, since the minimum timings are always met. That said, there is an advantage of square wave outputs in simplifying setup (since the step length and step space settings are unnecessary) I've asked the drive manufacturer. See if they get back to me. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -----Original Message- From: Peter Wallace Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 10:36 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) us...@lists.sourceforge.net> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses? [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 12:22:40 + From: Todd Zuercher Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses? Hello, It is my understanding that the step pulses generated by Mesa cards are always the minimum pulse length set by for example hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.steplen, only the space between the pulses is varied by the step rate, is that correct? I was reading the manual for the new drive I was planning to use in my next build and see that the drive calls a preference of a 50% duty cycle for step pulse inputs. I am guessing that it may have something to do with how the drive's pulse filtering system works, such that for maximum noise filtering and step reliability having the pulse length be approximately equal to the step spacing gives the best results. So my questions are; Would it be possible to make a Mesa card output a 50% duty cycle step pattern instead of the current default pattern? And would doing this even be worth the effort? Its possible with a minor firmware change and LinuxCNC driver change to enable the mode. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc.<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/%2Findex.php=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%4 0pgrahamdunn.com %7Ce5da628e16d4477d2d4008dbd567e82f%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e08 06fb43 %7C0%7C0%7C638338414483169698%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIj oiMC4wLjAw MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C% 7C ta=Zwbdv69ESSXKwXR%2FvXYbyijq1wOtyar%2FYeCMJAr6fgg%3D =0> 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://list/ s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc- users=05%7C01%7Ctoddz% 40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ce5da628e16d4477d2d4008dbd567e82f%7C5758544c 573f47c ebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638338414483169698%7CUnknown%7CT WFpbGZsb3d 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0% 3D%7C 3000%7C%7C%7C=f1ssQLGo0gn0%2B2tjHAUXLZOjfsSHNrJWTjJDkkDR uAA%3D eserved=0 Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listin
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses?
On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 15:15:36 + From: Todd Zuercher Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses? Peter, Thanks, But is it even going to be worth the effort? Since I'm sure the regular minimum pulse length signal is still going to at least work albeit with some possible theoretical performance limitations. I may not even require step rates beyond where this is a non-issue? Well since you can certainly get near square waves at the maximum speed with the current setup, it doesnt seem that much is gained by always having square wave step signals, since the minimum timings are always met. That said, there is an advantage of square wave outputs in simplifying setup (since the step length and step space settings are unnecessary) I've asked the drive manufacturer. See if they get back to me. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: Peter Wallace Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 10:36 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses? [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 12:22:40 + From: Todd Zuercher Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses? Hello, It is my understanding that the step pulses generated by Mesa cards are always the minimum pulse length set by for example hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.steplen, only the space between the pulses is varied by the step rate, is that correct? I was reading the manual for the new drive I was planning to use in my next build and see that the drive calls a preference of a 50% duty cycle for step pulse inputs. I am guessing that it may have something to do with how the drive's pulse filtering system works, such that for maximum noise filtering and step reliability having the pulse length be approximately equal to the step spacing gives the best results. So my questions are; Would it be possible to make a Mesa card output a 50% duty cycle step pattern instead of the current default pattern? And would doing this even be worth the effort? Its possible with a minor firmware change and LinuxCNC driver change to enable the mode. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc.<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/%2Findex.php=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com %7Ce5da628e16d4477d2d4008dbd567e82f%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43 %7C0%7C0%7C638338414483169698%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C ta=Zwbdv69ESSXKwXR%2FvXYbyijq1wOtyar%2FYeCMJAr6fgg%3D=0> 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://list/ s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users=05%7C01%7Ctoddz% 40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ce5da628e16d4477d2d4008dbd567e82f%7C5758544c573f47c ebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638338414483169698%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C 3000%7C%7C%7C=f1ssQLGo0gn0%2B2tjHAUXLZOjfsSHNrJWTjJDkkDRuAA%3D eserved=0 Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses?
On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Todd Zuercher wrote: Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 12:22:40 + From: Todd Zuercher Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses? Hello, It is my understanding that the step pulses generated by Mesa cards are always the minimum pulse length set by for example hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.steplen, only the space between the pulses is varied by the step rate, is that correct? I was reading the manual for the new drive I was planning to use in my next build and see that the drive calls a preference of a 50% duty cycle for step pulse inputs. I am guessing that it may have something to do with how the drive's pulse filtering system works, such that for maximum noise filtering and step reliability having the pulse length be approximately equal to the step spacing gives the best results. So my questions are; Would it be possible to make a Mesa card output a 50% duty cycle step pattern instead of the current default pattern? And would doing this even be worth the effort? Its possible with a minor firmware change and LinuxCNC driver change to enable the mode. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc.<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php> 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3 encoders on 7i76E?
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 18:47:03 +0300 From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: [Emc-users] 3 encoders on 7i76E? Hello! I am trying to help a guy to sort out config changes for their LinuxCNC machine. Currently they are running servo motors with step/dir signals and there is no position feedback to LinuxCNC. They are having some issues with machining errors and they want to change the config so that encoder signal from servodrive is fed to LinuxCNC with an intention that it will improve positioning precision. 7i76E is supposed to be capable of reading 3 encoders - one for spindle and two for MPG. The idea is to use these 3 encoders for X and Y axes (it is a gantry machine with total of 3 joints for XY plane). The problem is that this line in INI file: CONFIG="num_encoders=3 num_stepgens=4 sserial_port_0=0xxx" Gives an error on LinuxCNC startup and I believe this line to be the crucial: config.num_encoders = 3, but only 1 are available, not loading the driver The num-encoders line only applies to quadrature encoders built into the FPGA (and there is only 1 quadrature encoder in the standard 7I76E firmware) If you wish to use the MPG encoders, you must use sserial mode 2: ( sserial_port_0=2xxx ) and the 7i76 mpg encoder hal pins Do I understand correctly that simple change of firmware is required? Can someone suggest what would be correct firmware for this? This is standard And then one more question - are those inputs for MPG encoders suitable to read "normal" encoder signal, meaning - are there any limitations on max pulse frequency the inputs can handle for these 2 encoders? They are quite limited (to say 40,000 counts per second) In addition they are single ended only and do not support index In general they are not recommended for motion applications and rather just for supporting MPGs A much better solution is to add a 7I85 or 7I85S Thanks in advance! Viesturs ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Q, switching machine from inch default to metric (mm's) default?
On Thu, 21 Sep 2023, gene heskett wrote: Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 19:39:17 -0400 From: gene heskett Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] Q, switching machine from inch default to metric (mm's) default? Greetings said a confused guy; If I want to keep the same physical speeds, basically what the machine can do, it makes sense the STEP_SCALE in each axis gets divided by 25.4 to make it a mm machine. But when I've done that the machine moves extremely slow, and throws a following error when it has moved by about the amount set in FERROR and/or MIN_ERROR. What else besides the MAXVELS and ACCEL's need massaging, as it makes sense they should be multiplied by 25.4. Which I did, but then it tries to move at several hundred mm/sec & crashes into all the stops. You need to set the stepgen max-vels and max-accels to reasonable values also (typically 25% higher than the machine max-vels and max-accels) Another problem, what is the input resistance load of a 7i76D when its set for 12 volt logic. I am using a prox switch for a home switch on this new A axis. I get 12 volts back from the prox switch when triggered, and the prox switch is rated for srcing 300 milliamps when triggered, but when I hook it up to hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.input-06, the switch does not heat, but only gives a few millivolts over 8 volts, like there is one hell of a load, and its the same for 2 different new prox switches and for 2 different inputs on the 7i76D. The new A axis homes like it should, only axis that actually works for homing. 7I76Ds depending on vintage may have 22K, 20K or 10K input impedances I could use some help. This is so frustrating that I'm ready to give up, copy the 3 axis inch config over this one and add the A axis stuff all over again. Also: This new atpid was not, at least for me, anywhere near ready for prime time. It gives huge, often unstable numbers for inch linear axis's, and left my bs-1 servo hunting so bad it burned up a $120 motor in about 3 minutes quietly hunting about half an arcminute, at around 10 hertz. It refuses to find usable settings for an angular axis. 6+ digits left of the decimal point for vars for that mode, yet when I asked, I'm told it should work with the hard to find procedure, but it doesn't. Thanks. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/> ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] question for Peter C. Wallace
On Tue, 19 Sep 2023, gene heskett wrote: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 19:23:23 -0400 From: gene heskett Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" Subject: [Emc-users] question for Peter C. Wallace Greeting Peter; I hope this finds you well. I am installing a new A axis on my go704, and am trying to exercise it before moving 99% of the actual driver code code in from another machine with identical hdwe for its B axis. I have loaded a siggen to use its triangular drive as input to the joint.03.position-cmd, with the amplitude set to 2.5 and this for the rest of the dummy code: setphm2_5i25.0.stepgen.03.enable true #turn it on setpsiggen.0.frequency 10 setpsiggen.0.amplitude 2.5 setphm2_5i25.0.stepgen.03.steplen 4000 setphm2_5i25.0.stepgen.03.stepspace 1 setphm2_5i25.0.stepgen.03.dirhold 6000 setphm2_5i25.0.stepgen.03.dirsetup 6000 net mtr-test <= siggen.0.triangle => hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.03.position-cmd So tb2-20 to 23 on the 7i76D is supposed to be stepgen.03.outputs. man siggen says it should be symmetrical if no offset is set. But dir on neither pin is anywhere near 50/50, closer to 5/95, and faster than the above 10 a sec by quite a bit, and the step terminals are a solid 5 volt or zero volts, no activity at all. This on a 4 channel storage scope with a 350MHz bandwidth. Siglent's best. That puppy doesn't miss a thing. Did I miss a setp above? Thanks Peter. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/> ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users You would also need to set reasonable stepgen acceleration and velocity limits. In addition, It may be that because you have a non-differentiable position command (Triangle wave) that you have started an instability in the built in position mode, so a sine wave would be a better test. For best performance where the are possible large following errors it's better to use the stepgens in velocity mode and close the (local) position with a PID loop. Typical settings for the loop are P = 1/servo period so 1000 for a 1 ms servo thread FF1 = 1.000 FF2 = Time between Position read and velocity write (say 20 us on a PCI card =.2, perhaps 200 usec on a Ethernet card = .0002) Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] question for Peter C. W.
On Thu, 7 Sep 2023, gene heskett wrote: Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 12:11:19 -0400 From: gene heskett Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: [Emc-users] question for Peter C. W. Greetings Peter; Where on the 7i76, does pwmgen.00 of the 5i25 come out on? Normally, nowhere, standard 7I76 firmware doesnt use a PWMgen for its analog output, its part of the field I/O sserial remote. Its control pins/parameters would be: pins: hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.spindir # direction output hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.spinena # high to enable ENA pin and Analog out hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.spinout # analog value (positive only) parameters: hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.spinout-scalemax # sets scaling of analog value hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.spinout-minlim# sets minimum analog value, typically 0 hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.spinout-maxlim# sets maximum analog value, typically same as scalemax = max RPM Can I hal route the pwmgen.00 to the spindle pins on the 7i76 if not already there? I'm putting a 3 phase stepper/servo, driving a 5/1 worm as an A drive on my GO704. That means pwmgen.01 had to go, which I was using to run the spindle cuz I needed the stepgen-4 outputs that are overriding stepgen4 when 2 pwmgens are loaded, Now I need that stepgen-4 for this A drive. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/> ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping
On Mon, 14 Aug 2023, John Dammeyer wrote: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 16:36:16 -0700 From: John Dammeyer Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping Hi Andy, I don't know. How can I tell? The encoder is connected to the MESA 7i92H and according to my documentation is noisy so needs to be filtered. In either case it looks like the MESA board is providing Velocity and Position. I'd make a guess that based on its own internal clock it would provide a usable velocity. The problem, and might only be fixed in hardware is when I made the disk I used a 4mm mill instead of the 3mm called for in the G-Code. Didn't notice until the second slot at which point it was already too late. I'd guess at this slow a speed that the encoder will provide two different speeds between quadrature edges. Must really fix that. Here's some of the HAL file if that helps. John If you use LinuxCNC master, there is an interpolated position pin available for hostmot2 encoders. This basically uses the velocity estimation and the time since the last edge to get an estimated position between counts. This should help the "staircase" motion of spindle synchronized moves with low resolution encoders. As far as noise goes and especially with low resolution encoders, this largely reflects quadrature errors (deviations from 50 % duty cycle and deviations from 90 degree phase shift between A and B). Higher resolution encoders are better noise wise since since whatever quadrature errors exist, the estimated velocity noise caused by these errors gets divided by the counts per sample. with low resolution encoders, you will typically have many samples between edges so the best you can do is calculate the time between edges so even a modest 10% duty cycle error causes relatively huge velocity noise. Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Wiring Step Dir on KM5056E
On Mon, 3 Jul 2023, Alan Condit via Emc-users wrote: Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2023 13:25:29 -0500 From: Alan Condit via Emc-users To: EMC-Users Cc: Alan Condit Subject: [Emc-users] Wiring Step Dir on KM5056E I am in the process of wiring up a new controller for RPi4 using 7c81 and 7i76. In the process of doing so, I discovered that I had wired my controller for my PCBMill with a 7i76E Step+ to KM5056E Pulse-, Step- to KM5056E Pulse+, Dir+ to KM5056E Dir-, and Dir- to KM5056 Dir+. It seems to run fine but, if I correct the connections Step+ to Pulse+, Step- to Pulse-, Dir+ to Dir+ and Dir- to Dir- what will happen. I don??t really want to break something that works. Thanks in Advance, Alan ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users If it works now and the timings were correct, it should make no difference. You would end up with longer active step pulse times with inverted step polarity, though you may violate the direction hold time if the hold time is set short relative to the step pulse length. Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
