Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[Jon Elson]

On 08/20/2020 09:59 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:



-Original Message-
From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
Sent: August-20-20 7:36 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 at 21:36, John Dammeyer
 wrote:

The mill I have has flood coolant but I've never used it.  Read about bacterial 
growth and smell.  No way to easily add an expensive

disk oil separator.  Possibly a belt oil separator into the fill hole might 
work.

Thing is the machine shop may go unused for months at a time.

I used Tri-Cool for a while, and had issues with growth and
smell. Then, I got a bottle of Encool 9 by Engineered
Lubricants, a local outfit.  I could leave the sump for
months and have no problem with growth or smell.  Really
good stuff.  So, there are good coolants out there.  This
was a flood coolant system.

Jon


http://216.119.94.70/Products/Metalworking/MetalworkingProductLine.aspx

A search turned this up.  Doesn't look like they sell retail.  I doubt to 
Canada.

Yes, that's the outfit!  I am just a happy user.  Someday, I 
will use up the bottle they GAVE me as a sample, and will 
try to buy more.  I hope they don't only sell it in 55 
gallon drums.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 4:01 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant
>
> Does anyone use mist coolant?  If so what sort of fluid?  Mixed with
water?  If
> water then how do you dry up things so rust doesn't happen.
>
> I mostly mill aluminium castings but occasionally steel.
>
> Thanks
> John Dammeyer

I also do mostly aluminum and plastic. For aluminum I use a Trico MQL unit.
The unit is ridiculously expensive and the fluid is merely expensive.
However, it has worked well for perhaps 8 years, I use a gallon of coolant
every few years and the air blast does a pretty good job of clearing chips.
Average usage is perhaps 2-6 hours per week of actual cutting time. I never
cleanup and rust is not an issue, there is no noticeable odour, no problems
with bacteria and I don't get a bothersome mist. I'm happy if somewhat
poorer.




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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[Stuart Stevenson]

I tried a veggie coolant once. They claimed the coolant and way lube were
the same so the way lube would become coolant. Amazing concept. Horrible
result.we cleaned the machine and coolant tank with soap and bleach, put
the mix in on a Saturday. Monday morning you could hardly walk in the
building. The smell was throughout the whole building. By noon the machine
and coolant tank were washed and bleached and recharged with clean coolant
of the brand we had been using. The experiment was an abject failure. If
they have figured it out then the concept of the way lube turning into
coolant seems like the way to go.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:30 PM Ralph Stirling 
wrote:

> I use a vegetable based coolant and waylube from
> Oemeta.  I have no idea where you can buy it,
> because they donate it to us.  No smell, no growth,
> very irregular usage of the machines.  The only
> difficulty I have is that the waylube gets a little
> sticky after sitting a few months, and the Z axis on
> the Mori lathe will alarm when first run.  I leave a
> little cover off the side and manually turn the Z ball
> screw a half turn and then everything runs fine.
> The Oemeta waylube and coolant are completely
> compatible, so no need to skim any tramp oil.
> We use flood in both the Mori DuraTurn and Mori
> NVX.  I put the coolant in a hand spray bottle for
> use on the manual lathe, mill, and bandsaw.
>
> -- Ralph
> 
> From: John Dammeyer [jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 1:33 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University
> email system.
>
>
> Thanks Mathew.
>
> The stuff I was looking at is Kool Mist from KBC Tools.
>
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kbctools.ca%2Fitemdetail%2F1-437-771data=02%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C2cc47ae062cc4977559808d8454858b6%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637335524320282346sdata=E8VIoxEasTFgg6Xey1NLOkVurRx%2BL8LGi%2BTHUOo8QRM%3Dreserved=0
>
> For the band saw I have Powerfist cutting oil marked for mixing 5:1 to
> 100:1.
>
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.princessauto.com%2Fen%2Fdetail%2Fcutting-oil-coolant%2FA-p8034012edata=02%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C2cc47ae062cc4977559808d8454858b6%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637335524320282346sdata=0bm%2ByEukHp00461t6DPBNl%2B2JgTHsu7mTIZMm1q3o6E%3Dreserved=0
>
> Could I use the PA stuff as mist coolant or is it more suited to flood?
>
> The mill I have has flood coolant but I've never used it.  Read about
> bacterial growth and smell.  No way to easily add an expensive disk oil
> separator.  Possibly a belt oil separator into the fill hole might work.
>
> Thing is the machine shop may go unused for months at a time.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: Matthew Herd [mailto:herd.m...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: August-20-20 1:22 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant
> >
> > I use one of the soluble oils in my mister, at whatever the maximum mix
> ratio is.  I don�t worry about rust too much, generally I try to
> > use the minimum quantity to avoid fogging the shop.  Although I am about
> to try a Fog Buster (once I finish installing it) to see if it
> > works better than the old Bijur misting system (circa 1980) that came
> with the machine.  Thus far no discernible signs of rust on the
> > table, and I wipe down finished parts promptly.
> >
> > > On Aug 20, 2020, at 4:01 PM, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone use mist coolant?  If so what sort of fluid?  Mixed with
> water?  If water then how do you dry up things so rust doesn't
> > happen.
> > >
> > > I mostly mill aluminium castings but occasionally steel.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > John Dammeyer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=02%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C2cc47ae062cc4977559808d8454858b6%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637335524320282346sdata=j2cARU%2BTD%2FH0qBJxN0a%2BvhPDVPXd5NronF5%2FYQNJC8Q%3Dreserved=0
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> Sent: August-20-20 7:36 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant
> 
> On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 at 21:36, John Dammeyer
>  wrote:
> >> The mill I have has flood coolant but I've never used it.  Read about 
> >> bacterial growth and smell.  No way to easily add an expensive
> disk oil separator.  Possibly a belt oil separator into the fill hole might 
> work.
> >> Thing is the machine shop may go unused for months at a time.
> I used Tri-Cool for a while, and had issues with growth and
> smell. Then, I got a bottle of Encool 9 by Engineered
> Lubricants, a local outfit.  I could leave the sump for
> months and have no problem with growth or smell.  Really
> good stuff.  So, there are good coolants out there.  This
> was a flood coolant system.
> 
> Jon
> 
http://216.119.94.70/Products/Metalworking/MetalworkingProductLine.aspx

A search turned this up.  Doesn't look like they sell retail.  I doubt to 
Canada.
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[Jon Elson]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 at 21:36, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:

The mill I have has flood coolant but I've never used it.  Read about bacterial 
growth and smell.  No way to easily add an expensive disk oil separator.  
Possibly a belt oil separator into the fill hole might work.
Thing is the machine shop may go unused for months at a time.
I used Tri-Cool for a while, and had issues with growth and 
smell. Then, I got a bottle of Encool 9 by Engineered 
Lubricants, a local outfit.  I could leave the sump for 
months and have no problem with growth or smell.  Really 
good stuff.  So, there are good coolants out there.  This 
was a flood coolant system.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[Ralph Stirling]

I use a vegetable based coolant and waylube from
Oemeta.  I have no idea where you can buy it,
because they donate it to us.  No smell, no growth,
very irregular usage of the machines.  The only
difficulty I have is that the waylube gets a little
sticky after sitting a few months, and the Z axis on 
the Mori lathe will alarm when first run.  I leave a 
little cover off the side and manually turn the Z ball
screw a half turn and then everything runs fine.
The Oemeta waylube and coolant are completely
compatible, so no need to skim any tramp oil.
We use flood in both the Mori DuraTurn and Mori
NVX.  I put the coolant in a hand spray bottle for
use on the manual lathe, mill, and bandsaw.

-- Ralph

From: John Dammeyer [jo...@autoartisans.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 1:33 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


Thanks Mathew.

The stuff I was looking at is Kool Mist from KBC Tools.
https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kbctools.ca%2Fitemdetail%2F1-437-771data=02%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C2cc47ae062cc4977559808d8454858b6%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637335524320282346sdata=E8VIoxEasTFgg6Xey1NLOkVurRx%2BL8LGi%2BTHUOo8QRM%3Dreserved=0

For the band saw I have Powerfist cutting oil marked for mixing 5:1 to 100:1.
https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.princessauto.com%2Fen%2Fdetail%2Fcutting-oil-coolant%2FA-p8034012edata=02%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C2cc47ae062cc4977559808d8454858b6%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637335524320282346sdata=0bm%2ByEukHp00461t6DPBNl%2B2JgTHsu7mTIZMm1q3o6E%3Dreserved=0

Could I use the PA stuff as mist coolant or is it more suited to flood?

The mill I have has flood coolant but I've never used it.  Read about bacterial 
growth and smell.  No way to easily add an expensive disk oil separator.  
Possibly a belt oil separator into the fill hole might work.

Thing is the machine shop may go unused for months at a time.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Herd [mailto:herd.m...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August-20-20 1:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant
>
> I use one of the soluble oils in my mister, at whatever the maximum mix ratio 
> is.  I don�t worry about rust too much, generally I try to
> use the minimum quantity to avoid fogging the shop.  Although I am about to 
> try a Fog Buster (once I finish installing it) to see if it
> works better than the old Bijur misting system (circa 1980) that came with 
> the machine.  Thus far no discernible signs of rust on the
> table, and I wipe down finished parts promptly.
>
> > On Aug 20, 2020, at 4:01 PM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone use mist coolant?  If so what sort of fluid?  Mixed with water? 
> >  If water then how do you dry up things so rust doesn't
> happen.
> >
> > I mostly mill aluminium castings but occasionally steel.
> >
> > Thanks
> > John Dammeyer
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=02%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C2cc47ae062cc4977559808d8454858b6%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637335524320282346sdata=j2cARU%2BTD%2FH0qBJxN0a%2BvhPDVPXd5NronF5%2FYQNJC8Q%3Dreserved=0
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[Stuart Stevenson]

THE best coolant to cut aluminum is WD-40. Bar none. I have never misted it
but I used aerosol cans of it. Never a problem with a cloud of mist.
The best flood coolant has been Hangsterfer's. Never an odor problem. Never
a problem with separation while sitting unused.
Just sayin
Stuart

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:26 PM Matthew Herd  wrote:

> I should note that while chips are found far from my machine as well, the
> mister barely leaves any liquid behind when properly adjusted.  The only
> thing I don’t like about the old Bijur setup is that it does tend to
> vaporize some of it.  But the Fog Buster is supposed to minimize that.
> When you’re running AC in a closed shop, the mist is still tolerable, just
> not ideal.  A better system should make it a non-issue.
>
> > On Aug 20, 2020, at 8:57 PM, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: jrmitchellj [mailto:jrmitche...@gmail.com]
> >> Hi John.
> >> I use the KoolMist system:
> >> https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09413188
> >> It's expensive, but you can find it on special a couple times a year.
> >> I work mostly with aluminum, and their system works very well.
> >> I keep the mist flow low to stop puddling (and put absorbent
> cloths/sponges
> >> around the vice).
> >>
> >> The importance of coolant (in order of importance):
> >> 1  clear chips from cutting area
> >> 2  lubrication of the cutter
> >> 3  cooling
> >>
> >> I use a 16oz PET bottle for the reservoir, with a super magnet from a
> >> failed disk drive attached to it.  I put it on the side of the knee
> mill,
> >> and move it vertically to get the best mix of air vs mist.
> >> It sits about 10" below the work when running, and i'll move it up to
> the
> >> cutter level to get the mist started.
> >>
> >> I do not leave the reservoir on the machine between sessions, as gunk
> seems
> >> to want to grow in the lines.  I cap the bottle & put it in the shop
> fridge.
> >>
> >> After reading Gene's adventures with the eBay misters, I felt my time is
> >> too valuable to spend on messing with something of questionable utility.
> >>
> >> I hope this helps!
> >>
> >> --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> >> jrmitche...@gmail.com
> >
> > Thanks.  It does.  The number of poor videos out there on youtube is not
> to be believed.  I'm so tired of seeing someone include 30 seconds of their
> power band saw cutting a piece of brass off the stock.   Or the head
> mounted camera that weaves and bobs all over the place.
> >
> > One of my concerns, as was already mentioned, is atomized vapours in the
> air.  Once I finish the last little bits of my CNC conversion I can look at
> adding fluid and vapour shielding.  Don't think it will ever be enclosed
> like a HAAS but enough to keep the overspray off a concrete floor that is
> already in bad enough shape.
> >
> > Then I could just switch to flood since the mill came with it.  But
> already chips are found a fair distance from the machine.  Droplets go
> further and the mill really needs a COVID-19 mask to keep it's droplets to
> itself.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users <
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[Matthew Herd]

I should note that while chips are found far from my machine as well, the 
mister barely leaves any liquid behind when properly adjusted.  The only thing 
I don’t like about the old Bijur setup is that it does tend to vaporize some of 
it.  But the Fog Buster is supposed to minimize that.  When you’re running AC 
in a closed shop, the mist is still tolerable, just not ideal.  A better system 
should make it a non-issue.

> On Aug 20, 2020, at 8:57 PM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> From: jrmitchellj [mailto:jrmitche...@gmail.com]
>> Hi John.
>> I use the KoolMist system:
>> https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09413188
>> It's expensive, but you can find it on special a couple times a year.
>> I work mostly with aluminum, and their system works very well.
>> I keep the mist flow low to stop puddling (and put absorbent cloths/sponges
>> around the vice).
>> 
>> The importance of coolant (in order of importance):
>> 1  clear chips from cutting area
>> 2  lubrication of the cutter
>> 3  cooling
>> 
>> I use a 16oz PET bottle for the reservoir, with a super magnet from a
>> failed disk drive attached to it.  I put it on the side of the knee mill,
>> and move it vertically to get the best mix of air vs mist.
>> It sits about 10" below the work when running, and i'll move it up to the
>> cutter level to get the mist started.
>> 
>> I do not leave the reservoir on the machine between sessions, as gunk seems
>> to want to grow in the lines.  I cap the bottle & put it in the shop fridge.
>> 
>> After reading Gene's adventures with the eBay misters, I felt my time is
>> too valuable to spend on messing with something of questionable utility.
>> 
>> I hope this helps!
>> 
>> --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
>> jrmitche...@gmail.com
> 
> Thanks.  It does.  The number of poor videos out there on youtube is not to 
> be believed.  I'm so tired of seeing someone include 30 seconds of their 
> power band saw cutting a piece of brass off the stock.   Or the head mounted 
> camera that weaves and bobs all over the place.  
> 
> One of my concerns, as was already mentioned, is atomized vapours in the air. 
>  Once I finish the last little bits of my CNC conversion I can look at adding 
> fluid and vapour shielding.  Don't think it will ever be enclosed like a HAAS 
> but enough to keep the overspray off a concrete floor that is already in bad 
> enough shape.  
> 
> Then I could just switch to flood since the mill came with it.  But already 
> chips are found a fair distance from the machine.  Droplets go further and 
> the mill really needs a COVID-19 mask to keep it's droplets to itself.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[John Dammeyer]

> From: jrmitchellj [mailto:jrmitche...@gmail.com]
> Hi John.
> I use the KoolMist system:
> https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09413188
> It's expensive, but you can find it on special a couple times a year.
> I work mostly with aluminum, and their system works very well.
> I keep the mist flow low to stop puddling (and put absorbent cloths/sponges
> around the vice).
> 
> The importance of coolant (in order of importance):
> 1  clear chips from cutting area
> 2  lubrication of the cutter
> 3  cooling
> 
> I use a 16oz PET bottle for the reservoir, with a super magnet from a
> failed disk drive attached to it.  I put it on the side of the knee mill,
> and move it vertically to get the best mix of air vs mist.
> It sits about 10" below the work when running, and i'll move it up to the
> cutter level to get the mist started.
> 
> I do not leave the reservoir on the machine between sessions, as gunk seems
> to want to grow in the lines.  I cap the bottle & put it in the shop fridge.
> 
> After reading Gene's adventures with the eBay misters, I felt my time is
> too valuable to spend on messing with something of questionable utility.
> 
> I hope this helps!
> 
> --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> jrmitche...@gmail.com

Thanks.  It does.  The number of poor videos out there on youtube is not to be 
believed.  I'm so tired of seeing someone include 30 seconds of their power 
band saw cutting a piece of brass off the stock.   Or the head mounted camera 
that weaves and bobs all over the place.  

One of my concerns, as was already mentioned, is atomized vapours in the air.  
Once I finish the last little bits of my CNC conversion I can look at adding 
fluid and vapour shielding.  Don't think it will ever be enclosed like a HAAS 
but enough to keep the overspray off a concrete floor that is already in bad 
enough shape.  

Then I could just switch to flood since the mill came with it.  But already 
chips are found a fair distance from the machine.  Droplets go further and the 
mill really needs a COVID-19 mask to keep it's droplets to itself.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[jrmitchellj]

Hi John.
I use the KoolMist system:
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09413188
It's expensive, but you can find it on special a couple times a year.
I work mostly with aluminum, and their system works very well.
I keep the mist flow low to stop puddling (and put absorbent cloths/sponges
around the vice).

The importance of coolant (in order of importance):
1  clear chips from cutting area
2  lubrication of the cutter
3  cooling

I use a 16oz PET bottle for the reservoir, with a super magnet from a
failed disk drive attached to it.  I put it on the side of the knee mill,
and move it vertically to get the best mix of air vs mist.
It sits about 10" below the work when running, and i'll move it up to the
cutter level to get the mist started.

I do not leave the reservoir on the machine between sessions, as gunk seems
to want to grow in the lines.  I cap the bottle & put it in the shop fridge.

After reading Gene's adventures with the eBay misters, I felt my time is
too valuable to spend on messing with something of questionable utility.

I hope this helps!

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com



"Good enough is the enemy of excellence"author unknown


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 4:50 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Aug 2020 at 00:29, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
> > Photo didn't make it through.
>
> Seems to work in a different browser:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pkvnjnpoREYHukwr8
> But not 100% relevant, just showing a cobbled-together set of shields
> and trays to try to capture the flood coolant that flies a lot further
> at 24,000 rpm than at 1000rpm.
>
> What type of flood coolant liquid are you using?
>
>
> https://www.alexoil.co.uk/cutting-and-soluble-oils/141-biocut-fg-soluble-oil-5l.html
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 21 Aug 2020 at 00:29, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Photo didn't make it through.

Seems to work in a different browser:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pkvnjnpoREYHukwr8
But not 100% relevant, just showing a cobbled-together set of shields
and trays to try to capture the flood coolant that flies a lot further
at 24,000 rpm than at 1000rpm.

What type of flood coolant liquid are you using?

https://www.alexoil.co.uk/cutting-and-soluble-oils/141-biocut-fg-soluble-oil-5l.html

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[John Dammeyer]

> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> I use flood coolant, and at my spindle speeds (1200 rpm max) it works
> very well even on my unguarded mill.
> 
> No problems with bacteria or smells with modern coolants. It sometimes
> takes a while for the coolant to turn properly milky again after a few
> weeks hiatus.
> I mean, it smells like soluble oil coolant, but that's the smell of a
> happy childhood "helping" my dad in his workshop.

Photo didn't make it through.  What type of flood coolant liquid are you using?
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 20 August 2020 16:01:15 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Does anyone use mist coolant?  If so what sort of fluid?  Mixed with
> water?  If water then how do you dry up things so rust doesn't happen.
>
> I mostly mill aluminium castings but occasionally steel.
>
> Thanks
> John Dammeyer
>
I do John, particularly with alu, and the stuff I bought is mixed with 
water at about 1/2 oz of it to an 8oz plastic coke bottle as a peer 
machine reservoir.  I drive it with both shop air, and a peristoltic 
pump similar to whats on the tree beside your hospitals marquee de sade 
appliance called a bed. So I generally have a pretty dry, just enough 
mist to cool a carbide tool and keep it from gumming up in softer alu, 
welding the gullets full and breaking the $20 tool. Where I'm using it 
is on my 6040 gantry which has a 1.5 horse 24k motor with an 1/8" collet 
style chuck. All controlled by LinuxCNC's Axis mist button. of coarse. 
That evaporates, so wet isn't huge problem. I have in my hal file, a 
couple oneshots that feed each other, with a pair of pyvcp sliders so I 
can control both the on time and the off time of power to the pump.  So 
the pump gets bumped 60 to 400 or so times a minute for a small fraction 
of a turn, and an adjustable off time. Properly tuned, that 8 oz coke 
bottle will run it several hours.

The stuff I bought to feed it is called Kool Mist, comes in gallons at a 
bit over $30 IIRC. So far I've used about 3 oz to make the mix in the 
coke bottle that feeds the pump.

I bought 4 of those pumps for a tenner each because I've got 4 machines, 
but the delivery nozzles at $6 to $15 a copy are all junk, intended to 
deliver flooding liquid and I haven't tripped over a good mist nozzle 
yet, or I'd have it installed on the other 3 machines too. As is I spent 
a week modifying one of the $15 nozzles for best effect.

Keeping the work damp with shop air driving the mist, the coat of mist 
slows the formation of alu oxide behind the cutting edge of the tool and 
that slows the part heating to a greater degree than the evaporative 
effects. Slowing the oxidation formation also means there is less of it 
for the tools approaching next cutting edge to cut through and extends 
the life of the tool many times.  I can't afford the tool breakage of a 
clogged up tool, and this stops 99% of that. Direct the mist so it hits 
the work right behind the cutting edge, getting it wet as quick as the 
cutter has spun past for best effect.

Those pumps came from fleabay, search for "peristaltic pump".  They work  
by spinning a roller over a loop of si tubing, which will eventually 
crack and fail, but these pumps aren't foxy enough to spend the time 
putting new tubing in when it does.  Its an expendable service part.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[Joe H]

In the toolroom where I work, we used to have Li'l Mister non pressurized
reservoir misters. They caused a cloud in the room unpleasant to breath.
We now use Fog Buster that uses a small amount of pressure in the feed
bottle and it's much better for the surrounding air and much better to
control.
Kool Mist in those was not bad to work around but it wasn't great for
lubricity. Drills going into aluminum would screech from rubbing.
Also I found a lot of rust under the vise every time I took it off even
though the mix was always rich.
The Dascool coolant used for the flood coolant in the  CNC's in the shop in
the Fog Busters has worked well on all fronts, I never noticed rust using
it.
Joe


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 5:29 PM  wrote:

> Why not flood with neat cutting oil? It's a much nicer smell, although
> you do need to watch out for staining of close-fitting surfaces.
>
> I have serious doubts about the health hazard that a mist of any sort
> poses to the operator's respiratory system.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[marcus . bowman]

Why not flood with neat cutting oil? It's a much nicer smell, although 
you do need to watch out for staining of close-fitting surfaces.


I have serious doubts about the health hazard that a mist of any sort 
poses to the operator's respiratory system.


Marcus




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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 at 21:36, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> The mill I have has flood coolant but I've never used it.  Read about 
> bacterial growth and smell.  No way to easily add an expensive disk oil 
> separator.  Possibly a belt oil separator into the fill hole might work.
> Thing is the machine shop may go unused for months at a time.

I use flood coolant, and at my spindle speeds (1200 rpm max) it works
very well even on my unguarded mill.

No problems with bacteria or smells with modern coolants. It sometimes
takes a while for the coolant to turn properly milky again after a few
weeks hiatus.
I mean, it smells like soluble oil coolant, but that's the smell of a
happy childhood "helping" my dad in his workshop.

However, I have a job coming up for the high-speed spindle (and I am
going to get the guy who wants the parts to be the operator, as he is
not paying and wants 180 x 4-operation parts) so I have been setting
up some baffles to catch the coolant.
(This link might not work, the Google Photos "share" button isn't working...)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qI9O4_mkctwFIT6d2sdXwchUFRHnwjTOCcXLMm3_C5BpMBZ64sS0ytjGosoptD0lBIYuY2e5OGOGIIeB3F9Bvyj_pryidGunEoh9aTZYpN735MtWHSfDmn39fHAxsM4Mi6NHgDUR5olXLyrbMk8KkMFCctjkhMpR4Fla0A7MaGjTkr0WyQrViaTqQJYMclRHfEyOhKvITYV3HKB8RJK4aXC8uVYQedr61AdYBxkomWVzzZ-mYGIAvUe4Hw--KI8GrgJc6IeDvJveoQSdgfbWL0TsjvZW4BnGW2FvAVGwDw_Gn7q70jDGdiQ7L2LR4G8Jd9ePSfmwJn0Zkh31OmFMhkPIPX6_-a_yivvJcklTiGrYEq7rgBtpyj924J-MZk0vixoHiPXt-dbmbBPaORlpf3JQ3GXBheeGaXI8h_wPCqgPJ6t0U-qat4AeT1nckgpQ2aaXRTqczjOLG7Zq0CJpD3pDNmXqybTJzoz7hCniXMiYSo--6itK-FK0JfuuUOWuNQ2vCjMoRo_jMhyIn8szH3Q23jtXeQrUOq_5DLTO1ISMsw7x0fOal2_q5DgW6k59Tp3-4PWtjRebk_7UNThTFIKatEGTCQvjt2vCJKWYcORZOKfLx8WT5SsWdkn6S7ZasCozCrPUnM5OXUMTg7G1NY9b4wkZMgJ3zNZVWAr6OFBHjuJjluvzVgtR-dfbxw=w1930-h2572-no?authuser=0

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[stjohn gold]

For steel oil mist, see here for ideas:

https://unilube.ch/products/poplube-2d-schmiersystem/

For aluminium some sort of alcohol, see datron...

Cheers!

On Thu, 20 Aug 2020, 22:04 John Dammeyer,  wrote:

> Does anyone use mist coolant?  If so what sort of fluid?  Mixed with
> water?  If water then how do you dry up things so rust doesn't happen.
>
> I mostly mill aluminium castings but occasionally steel.
>
> Thanks
> John Dammeyer
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks Mathew.

The stuff I was looking at is Kool Mist from KBC Tools.
https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/1-437-771 

For the band saw I have Powerfist cutting oil marked for mixing 5:1 to 100:1.
https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/cutting-oil-coolant/A-p8034012e 

Could I use the PA stuff as mist coolant or is it more suited to flood?

The mill I have has flood coolant but I've never used it.  Read about bacterial 
growth and smell.  No way to easily add an expensive disk oil separator.  
Possibly a belt oil separator into the fill hole might work.

Thing is the machine shop may go unused for months at a time.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew Herd [mailto:herd.m...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August-20-20 1:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant
> 
> I use one of the soluble oils in my mister, at whatever the maximum mix ratio 
> is.  I don�t worry about rust too much, generally I try to
> use the minimum quantity to avoid fogging the shop.  Although I am about to 
> try a Fog Buster (once I finish installing it) to see if it
> works better than the old Bijur misting system (circa 1980) that came with 
> the machine.  Thus far no discernible signs of rust on the
> table, and I wipe down finished parts promptly.
> 
> > On Aug 20, 2020, at 4:01 PM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone use mist coolant?  If so what sort of fluid?  Mixed with water? 
> >  If water then how do you dry up things so rust doesn't
> happen.
> >
> > I mostly mill aluminium castings but occasionally steel.
> >
> > Thanks
> > John Dammeyer
> >
> >
> >
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> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[Matthew Herd]

I use one of the soluble oils in my mister, at whatever the maximum mix ratio 
is.  I don’t worry about rust too much, generally I try to use the minimum 
quantity to avoid fogging the shop.  Although I am about to try a Fog Buster 
(once I finish installing it) to see if it works better than the old Bijur 
misting system (circa 1980) that came with the machine.  Thus far no 
discernible signs of rust on the table, and I wipe down finished parts promptly.

> On Aug 20, 2020, at 4:01 PM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone use mist coolant?  If so what sort of fluid?  Mixed with water?  
> If water then how do you dry up things so rust doesn't happen.
> 
> I mostly mill aluminium castings but occasionally steel.
> 
> Thanks
> John Dammeyer
> 
> 
> 
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[Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[John Dammeyer]

Does anyone use mist coolant?  If so what sort of fluid?  Mixed with water?  If 
water then how do you dry up things so rust doesn't happen.

I mostly mill aluminium castings but occasionally steel.

Thanks
John Dammeyer



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