Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: April-02-21 7:55 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> 
> On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 11:40, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
> >
> > With no other, better, choice, the rotations in the preview are around the
> > machine origin.
> >
> 
> An update in Master has been brought to my attention:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini-config.html#_display_section
> The GEOMETRY string can now include a "!"
> 
> --

Ah.  That appears to make a difference and now shows I have one other issue 
with the display compared to real life.  Because my knee moves up and down and 
my home position is at the lowest point of knee travel after homing the tool 
cone is shown at the top of the work envelope.  The little blue icon (I think 
represents machine home position) is also at the top and with the !AXYZ shows 
rotation around this point.  

I have reset all G54, G92, etc. to be 0.

A negative Z motion from Z=0 still moves closer to the tool.  A positive moves 
away from the tool.

The write-up 
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini-homing.html#cha:homing-configuration
 is a bit confusing because it expects the home and limit switch at the other 
end of what I have.  Which isn't safe since homing towards the spindle that 
might still hold a tool is somewhat dangerous.

So I've made changes to that page which I scanned and put here:
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/HomeSwitchInfo.pdf
net max-home-z => axis.2.home-sw-in
net max-x-y-min-z => axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in
net max-home-z => axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in

Now this all works.  Motion from Home is negative towards the spindle as the 
knee moves up.  Soft limits work without hitting the switches and loading a G 
code file outside the working envelope raises an error.  So all is good.

Except...  If the HOME_OFFSET is 0.2 and the + LIMIT switch was used to 
determine HOME why does the machine home icon show up at the top left of the 
work envelope on the AXIS display as in 
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-04-01_19-00-35.png

Moving the knee towards the spindle show correct motion in the downwards 
direction (more negative).   

And Z G54 axis is pointed up for more positive.If I move all axis to 
roughly to the center of the work envelope and touch of all three axis then the 
XYZ arrows move down to that position.  Reload the GCode and it's positioned 
relative to that 0,0,0 point.  The A axis still rotates around the machine home 
position.  

I must be missing something obvious.  Any other variations of MIN or MAX LIMITs 
can move Machine Home to the bottom left hand corner but then soft limits no 
longer work or I've run the knee into the end of travel during the move to 
HOME_OFFSET.

Maybe I'm puzzled about something that isn't important.It all started me 
worrying when the A Axis rotated around machine home that appeared to be on the 
wrong end of the work envelope.

John





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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 11:40, andy pugh  wrote:

>
> With no other, better, choice, the rotations in the preview are around the
> machine origin.
>

An update in Master has been brought to my attention:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini-config.html#_display_section
The GEOMETRY string can now include a "!"

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Scott Harwell via Emc-users]

 John,
I don't know why tool orientation is reversed.
Scott




On Thursday, April 1, 2021, 10:32:32 PM CDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
 
 I'm puzzled by what exactly the Axis interface is showing here.  

I did a home all.  Then G0 X0 Y0 Z0 which moves to the G54 0,0,0 position which 
is roughly in the middle of my work envelope as shown by red boundaries.  The 
LinuxCNC logo is set up in the middle.

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-04-01_19-00-35.png


I then jogged the A axis 90 degrees one way and the roughly 270 in the other 
direction.  The A Axis center of rotation is in the direction with the X axis 
as expected but appears to be around the upper  Why is the JOG arc so large?  
The tool image is totally outside the work envelope.

I see from the AXIS docs that AXYZ determines the order of how the drawing is 
recreated.  However I don't understand the thinking behind the rotation image.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 04:32, John Dammeyer  wrote:

I then jogged the A axis 90 degrees one way and the roughly 270 in the
> other direction.  The A Axis center of rotation is in the direction with
> the X axis as expected but appears to be around the upper  Why is the JOG
> arc so large?  The tool image is totally outside the work envelope.
>

With no other, better, choice, the rotations in the preview are around the
machine origin.

The axis preview just plots the axis motions in machine coordinate space.
And it really has no idea where your rotary axis origin is.

You could probably set up your joint limits in the INI to accurately place
the rotary axis axis on the axis to get a more accurate preview in Axis. :-)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[John Dammeyer]

I'm puzzled by what exactly the Axis interface is showing here.  

I did a home all.  Then G0 X0 Y0 Z0 which moves to the G54 0,0,0 position which 
is roughly in the middle of my work envelope as shown by red boundaries.  The 
LinuxCNC logo is set up in the middle.

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-04-01_19-00-35.png


I then jogged the A axis 90 degrees one way and the roughly 270 in the other 
direction.  The A Axis center of rotation is in the direction with the X axis 
as expected but appears to be around the upper  Why is the JOG arc so large?  
The tool image is totally outside the work envelope.

I see from the AXIS docs that AXYZ determines the order of how the drawing is 
recreated.  However I don't understand the thinking behind the rotation image.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[John Dammeyer]

My appologies.  Was editing the incorrect ini file.  The clue was when I went 
back to edit again and it appeared that AXYZ had reverted back to xyza.

And sure enough, once I fixed the 'correct' ini file I also get the rotary axis 
preview.  

John

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: March-31-21 7:37 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> 
> Scott,
> There are only a couple of differences.
> I have
> ARCDIVISION=64
> GRIDS = 10mm 20mm 50mm 100mm 1in 2in 5in 10in
> I've also added a panel but that's outside the display screen.
> PYVCP = pyvcp-panel.xml
> 
> and I'm missing
> CYCLE_TIME = 100
> 
> Here's mine.
> [DISPLAY]
> DISPLAY = axis
> POSITION_OFFSET = RELATIVE
> POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL
> MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE = 1.50
> MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 1.00
> MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 0.50
> INTRO_GRAPHIC = linuxcnc.gif
> INTRO_TIME = 5
> PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/john/linuxcnc/nc_files
> INCREMENTS = .1in .05in .01in .005in .001in .0005in .0001in
> ARCDIVISION = 64
> GRIDS = 10mm 20mm 50mm 100mm 1in 2in 5in 10in
> POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL
> DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 1.00
> MIN_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0
> MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 3.0
> DEFAULT_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 90.00
> MIN_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 0
> MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 180.00
> EDITOR = mousepad
> GEOMETRY = AXYZ
> PYVCP = pyvcp-panel.xml
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Scott Harwell via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> > Sent: March-31-21 6:24 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Cc: Scott Harwell
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> >
> >  John,
> > I have it almost working. The tool still tilts, but it will display the 
> > ring, and you can see what is happening.
> > From my INI
> >
> > [DISPLAY]
> > DISPLAY = axis
> > POSITION_OFFSET = RELATIVE
> > POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL
> > MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE = 2.00
> > MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 1.50
> > MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 0.50
> > INTRO_GRAPHIC = linuxcnc.gif
> > INTRO_TIME = 5
> > PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/sh/linuxcnc/nc_files
> > INCREMENTS = .1in .05in .01in .005in .001in .0005in .0001in
> > POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL
> > DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0.25
> > MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 1.00
> > MIN_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0.016670
> > DEFAULT_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 12.00
> > MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 180.00
> > MIN_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 1.67
> > EDITOR = gedit
> > GEOMETRY = aXYZ
> > CYCLE_TIME = 100
> > Excuse the speeds this is from my prototype system, no machine.
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 5:19:05 PM CDT, John Dammeyer 
> >  wrote:
> >
> >  Forgot to mention I had tried that.? I have it set to AXYZ.? The tool 
> > images starts with the flat of the tool cone facing away from
> me.?
> > I can now also see the A change briefly to say 20 and then back to zero, 
> > probably due to the G92.
> >
> > But it's still drawing the image as if it's in one spot.? Which in effect 
> > it is since the rotary axis, in line with the X axis is turning so the
> > XYZ remain the same other than Z moving into the work to cut and out to 
> > retract.? X moves along the graduations and AX move to
> > draw the letters.
> >
> > So something else in the INI or HAL file is still confusing the system.
> >
> > John
> > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > >
> > > You need in the display section of the INI file
> > >
> > > GEOMETRY = AXYZ
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 5:00 PM John Dammeyer  
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > > > >
> > > > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> > > > >
> > > > Alright, I'm confused.
> > > > I've got the G-Code turning the 4th axis A.? The X moves back and forth
> > > > for carving the lines as does A when letters are carved.? At 90 degrees 
> > > > the
> > > > conical tool image on the AXIS screen has rotated 90 degrees but the
> > > > location of A is still zero on the screen as well as I don't get that
> > > > circular image that Sam has.
> > > > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-03-31_14-22-48.png
> > > >
> > > > S

Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[John Dammeyer]

Scott,
There are only a couple of differences.
I have 
ARCDIVISION=64 
GRIDS = 10mm 20mm 50mm 100mm 1in 2in 5in 10in
I've also added a panel but that's outside the display screen.
PYVCP = pyvcp-panel.xml

and I'm missing 
CYCLE_TIME = 100

Here's mine.
[DISPLAY]
DISPLAY = axis
POSITION_OFFSET = RELATIVE
POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL
MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE = 1.50
MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 1.00
MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 0.50
INTRO_GRAPHIC = linuxcnc.gif
INTRO_TIME = 5
PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/john/linuxcnc/nc_files
INCREMENTS = .1in .05in .01in .005in .001in .0005in .0001in
ARCDIVISION = 64
GRIDS = 10mm 20mm 50mm 100mm 1in 2in 5in 10in
POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL
DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 1.00
MIN_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0
MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 3.0
DEFAULT_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 90.00
MIN_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 0
MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 180.00
EDITOR = mousepad
GEOMETRY = AXYZ
PYVCP = pyvcp-panel.xml

> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Harwell via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: March-31-21 6:24 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Cc: Scott Harwell
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> 
>  John,
> I have it almost working. The tool still tilts, but it will display the ring, 
> and you can see what is happening.
> From my INI
> 
> [DISPLAY]
> DISPLAY = axis
> POSITION_OFFSET = RELATIVE
> POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL
> MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE = 2.00
> MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 1.50
> MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 0.50
> INTRO_GRAPHIC = linuxcnc.gif
> INTRO_TIME = 5
> PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/sh/linuxcnc/nc_files
> INCREMENTS = .1in .05in .01in .005in .001in .0005in .0001in
> POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL
> DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0.25
> MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 1.00
> MIN_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0.016670
> DEFAULT_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 12.00
> MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 180.00
> MIN_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 1.67
> EDITOR = gedit
> GEOMETRY = aXYZ
> CYCLE_TIME = 100
> Excuse the speeds this is from my prototype system, no machine.
> Scott
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 5:19:05 PM CDT, John Dammeyer 
>  wrote:
> 
>  Forgot to mention I had tried that.� I have it set to AXYZ.� The tool images 
> starts with the flat of the tool cone facing away from me.�
> I can now also see the A change briefly to say 20 and then back to zero, 
> probably due to the G92.
> 
> But it's still drawing the image as if it's in one spot.� Which in effect it 
> is since the rotary axis, in line with the X axis is turning so the
> XYZ remain the same other than Z moving into the work to cut and out to 
> retract.� X moves along the graduations and AX move to
> draw the letters.
> 
> So something else in the INI or HAL file is still confusing the system.
> 
> John
> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> >
> > You need in the display section of the INI file
> >
> > GEOMETRY = AXYZ
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 5:00 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > > >
> > > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> > > >
> > > Alright, I'm confused.
> > > I've got the G-Code turning the 4th axis A.� The X moves back and forth
> > > for carving the lines as does A when letters are carved.� At 90 degrees 
> > > the
> > > conical tool image on the AXIS screen has rotated 90 degrees but the
> > > location of A is still zero on the screen as well as I don't get that
> > > circular image that Sam has.
> > > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-03-31_14-22-48.png
> > >
> > > So physically the Axis is turning.� But it doesn't seem to be represented
> > > on the screen.� What could be missing?� Something in the HAL or INI file?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks Scott.  Yes.  The code was changed to

#<_f> = 80
 from 
#<_feed> = 20

I tried _feed1 which also worked.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Harwell via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: March-31-21 7:06 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Cc: Scott Harwell
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> 
> G-code to engrave numbers on cylinders
> 
> |
> |
> |
> |  |  |
> 
>  |
> 
>  |
> |
> |  |
> G-code to engrave numbers on cylinders
> 
> [edit 30/8/18: I added tick marks, see 
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/27169-g-code-to-engrave-numbers-on-c...
>  |
> 
>  |
> 
>  |
> 
> 
> John,
> 
> The file at the bottom of page 2 works in 2.9.0. No error for "F".
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 5:19:05 PM CDT, John Dammeyer 
>  wrote:
> 
>  Forgot to mention I had tried that.� I have it set to AXYZ.� The tool images 
> starts with the flat of the tool cone facing away from me.�
> I can now also see the A change briefly to say 20 and then back to zero, 
> probably due to the G92.
> 
> But it's still drawing the image as if it's in one spot.� Which in effect it 
> is since the rotary axis, in line with the X axis is turning so the
> XYZ remain the same other than Z moving into the work to cut and out to 
> retract.� X moves along the graduations and AX move to
> draw the letters.
> 
> So something else in the INI or HAL file is still confusing the system.
> 
> John
> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> >
> > You need in the display section of the INI file
> >
> > GEOMETRY = AXYZ
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 5:00 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > > >
> > > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> > > >
> > > Alright, I'm confused.
> > > I've got the G-Code turning the 4th axis A.� The X moves back and forth
> > > for carving the lines as does A when letters are carved.� At 90 degrees 
> > > the
> > > conical tool image on the AXIS screen has rotated 90 degrees but the
> > > location of A is still zero on the screen as well as I don't get that
> > > circular image that Sam has.
> > > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-03-31_14-22-48.png
> > >
> > > So physically the Axis is turning.� But it doesn't seem to be represented
> > > on the screen.� What could be missing?� Something in the HAL or INI file?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Scott Harwell via Emc-users]

 Sam,
Yahoo mail with Firefox on Debian 10.
Yes I noticed it really trashed the formatting, It didn't look like this when 
sent.

Your project is looking good. 

Scott

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 9:25:00 PM CDT, Sam Sokolik 
 wrote:  
 
 John - what ui are you using?

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 9:08 PM Scott Harwell via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> G-code to engrave numbers on cylinders
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> G-code to engrave numbers on cylinders
>
> [edit 30/8/18: I added tick marks, see
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/27169-g-code-to-engrave-numbers-on-c.
> ..
>  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
> John,
>
> The file at the bottom of page 2 works in 2.9.0. No error for "F".
> Scott
>
>
>
>    On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 5:19:05 PM CDT, John Dammeyer <
> jo...@autoartisans.com> wrote:
>
>  Forgot to mention I had tried that.  I have it set to AXYZ.  The tool
> images starts with the flat of the tool cone facing away from me.  I can
> now also see the A change briefly to say 20 and then back to zero, probably
> due to the G92.
>
> But it's still drawing the image as if it's in one spot.  Which in effect
> it is since the rotary axis, in line with the X axis is turning so the XYZ
> remain the same other than Z moving into the work to cut and out to
> retract.  X moves along the graduations and AX move to draw the letters.
>
> So something else in the INI or HAL file is still confusing the system.
>
> John
> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> >
> > You need in the display section of the INI file
> >
> > GEOMETRY = AXYZ
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 5:00 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > > >
> > >
> http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> > > >
> > > Alright, I'm confused.
> > > I've got the G-Code turning the 4th axis A.  The X moves back and forth
> > > for carving the lines as does A when letters are carved.  At 90
> degrees the
> > > conical tool image on the AXIS screen has rotated 90 degrees but the
> > > location of A is still zero on the screen as well as I don't get that
> > > circular image that Sam has.
> > > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-03-31_14-22-48.png
> > >
> > > So physically the Axis is turning.  But it doesn't seem to be
> represented
> > > on the screen.  What could be missing?  Something in the HAL or INI
> file?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Sam Sokolik]

John - what ui are you using?

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 9:08 PM Scott Harwell via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> G-code to engrave numbers on cylinders
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> G-code to engrave numbers on cylinders
>
> [edit 30/8/18: I added tick marks, see
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/27169-g-code-to-engrave-numbers-on-c.
> ..
>  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
> John,
>
> The file at the bottom of page 2 works in 2.9.0. No error for "F".
> Scott
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 5:19:05 PM CDT, John Dammeyer <
> jo...@autoartisans.com> wrote:
>
>  Forgot to mention I had tried that.  I have it set to AXYZ.  The tool
> images starts with the flat of the tool cone facing away from me.  I can
> now also see the A change briefly to say 20 and then back to zero, probably
> due to the G92.
>
> But it's still drawing the image as if it's in one spot.  Which in effect
> it is since the rotary axis, in line with the X axis is turning so the XYZ
> remain the same other than Z moving into the work to cut and out to
> retract.  X moves along the graduations and AX move to draw the letters.
>
> So something else in the INI or HAL file is still confusing the system.
>
> John
> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> >
> > You need in the display section of the INI file
> >
> > GEOMETRY = AXYZ
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 5:00 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > > >
> > >
> http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> > > >
> > > Alright, I'm confused.
> > > I've got the G-Code turning the 4th axis A.  The X moves back and forth
> > > for carving the lines as does A when letters are carved.  At 90
> degrees the
> > > conical tool image on the AXIS screen has rotated 90 degrees but the
> > > location of A is still zero on the screen as well as I don't get that
> > > circular image that Sam has.
> > > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-03-31_14-22-48.png
> > >
> > > So physically the Axis is turning.  But it doesn't seem to be
> represented
> > > on the screen.  What could be missing?  Something in the HAL or INI
> file?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Scott Harwell via Emc-users]

G-code to engrave numbers on cylinders

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
G-code to engrave numbers on cylinders

[edit 30/8/18: I added tick marks, see 
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/27169-g-code-to-engrave-numbers-on-c...
 |

 |

 |


John,

The file at the bottom of page 2 works in 2.9.0. No error for "F".
Scott



On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 5:19:05 PM CDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
 
 Forgot to mention I had tried that.  I have it set to AXYZ.  The tool images 
starts with the flat of the tool cone facing away from me.  I can now also see 
the A change briefly to say 20 and then back to zero, probably due to the G92.

But it's still drawing the image as if it's in one spot.  Which in effect it is 
since the rotary axis, in line with the X axis is turning so the XYZ remain the 
same other than Z moving into the work to cut and out to retract.  X moves 
along the graduations and AX move to draw the letters.

So something else in the INI or HAL file is still confusing the system.

John
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> 
> You need in the display section of the INI file
> 
> GEOMETRY = AXYZ
> 
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 5:00 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> >
> > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > >
> > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> > >
> > Alright, I'm confused.
> > I've got the G-Code turning the 4th axis A.  The X moves back and forth
> > for carving the lines as does A when letters are carved.  At 90 degrees the
> > conical tool image on the AXIS screen has rotated 90 degrees but the
> > location of A is still zero on the screen as well as I don't get that
> > circular image that Sam has.
> > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-03-31_14-22-48.png
> >
> > So physically the Axis is turning.  But it doesn't seem to be represented
> > on the screen.  What could be missing?  Something in the HAL or INI file?
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Scott Harwell via Emc-users]

 John,
I have it almost working. The tool still tilts, but it will display the ring, 
and you can see what is happening.
From my INI

[DISPLAY]
DISPLAY = axis
POSITION_OFFSET = RELATIVE
POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL
MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE = 2.00
MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 1.50
MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 0.50
INTRO_GRAPHIC = linuxcnc.gif
INTRO_TIME = 5
PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/sh/linuxcnc/nc_files
INCREMENTS = .1in .05in .01in .005in .001in .0005in .0001in
POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL
DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0.25
MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 1.00
MIN_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0.016670
DEFAULT_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 12.00
MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 180.00
MIN_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 1.67
EDITOR = gedit
GEOMETRY = aXYZ
CYCLE_TIME = 100
Excuse the speeds this is from my prototype system, no machine.
Scott


On Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 5:19:05 PM CDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
 
 Forgot to mention I had tried that.  I have it set to AXYZ.  The tool images 
starts with the flat of the tool cone facing away from me.  I can now also see 
the A change briefly to say 20 and then back to zero, probably due to the G92.

But it's still drawing the image as if it's in one spot.  Which in effect it is 
since the rotary axis, in line with the X axis is turning so the XYZ remain the 
same other than Z moving into the work to cut and out to retract.  X moves 
along the graduations and AX move to draw the letters.

So something else in the INI or HAL file is still confusing the system.

John
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> 
> You need in the display section of the INI file
> 
> GEOMETRY = AXYZ
> 
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 5:00 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> >
> > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > >
> > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> > >
> > Alright, I'm confused.
> > I've got the G-Code turning the 4th axis A.  The X moves back and forth
> > for carving the lines as does A when letters are carved.  At 90 degrees the
> > conical tool image on the AXIS screen has rotated 90 degrees but the
> > location of A is still zero on the screen as well as I don't get that
> > circular image that Sam has.
> > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-03-31_14-22-48.png
> >
> > So physically the Axis is turning.  But it doesn't seem to be represented
> > on the screen.  What could be missing?  Something in the HAL or INI file?
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[John Dammeyer]

Forgot to mention I had tried that.  I have it set to AXYZ.  The tool images 
starts with the flat of the tool cone facing away from me.  I can now also see 
the A change briefly to say 20 and then back to zero, probably due to the G92.

But it's still drawing the image as if it's in one spot.  Which in effect it is 
since the rotary axis, in line with the X axis is turning so the XYZ remain the 
same other than Z moving into the work to cut and out to retract.  X moves 
along the graduations and AX move to draw the letters.

So something else in the INI or HAL file is still confusing the system.

John
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> 
> You need in the display section of the INI file
> 
> GEOMETRY = AXYZ
> 
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 5:00 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> >
> > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > >
> > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> > >
> > Alright, I'm confused.
> > I've got the G-Code turning the 4th axis A.  The X moves back and forth
> > for carving the lines as does A when letters are carved.  At 90 degrees the
> > conical tool image on the AXIS screen has rotated 90 degrees but the
> > location of A is still zero on the screen as well as I don't get that
> > circular image that Sam has.
> > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-03-31_14-22-48.png
> >
> > So physically the Axis is turning.  But it doesn't seem to be represented
> > on the screen.  What could be missing?  Something in the HAL or INI file?
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Sam Sokolik]

You need in the display section of the INI file

GEOMETRY = AXYZ

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 5:00 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

>
> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> >
> http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> >
> Alright, I'm confused.
> I've got the G-Code turning the 4th axis A.  The X moves back and forth
> for carving the lines as does A when letters are carved.  At 90 degrees the
> conical tool image on the AXIS screen has rotated 90 degrees but the
> location of A is still zero on the screen as well as I don't get that
> circular image that Sam has.
> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-03-31_14-22-48.png
>
> So physically the Axis is turning.  But it doesn't seem to be represented
> on the screen.  What could be missing?  Something in the HAL or INI file?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> 
Alright, I'm confused.
I've got the G-Code turning the 4th axis A.  The X moves back and forth for 
carving the lines as does A when letters are carved.  At 90 degrees the conical 
tool image on the AXIS screen has rotated 90 degrees but the location of A is 
still zero on the screen as well as I don't get that circular image that Sam 
has.
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Screenshot_2021-03-31_14-22-48.png

So physically the Axis is turning.  But it doesn't seem to be represented on 
the screen.  What could be missing?  Something in the HAL or INI file?

Thanks
John



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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[johnd]

I changed it to _feed1 and then the program ran. Info output at 10, 20, 30..  
Looks like it carves the numbers first.   Rotary axis does appear to move 10 
degrees for each info message. Screen output a bit strange. Metric maybe?On 
doggy walk.  Will check further when I get back. ThanksJohnSent from my Samsung 
S10
 Original message From: Sam Sokolik  Date: 
2021-03-31  9:59 a.m.  (GMT-08:00) To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview 
(in axis interface) I think you grabbed the old version - at the top of the 
post he has a linkto the end of the post...  
:)https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/27169-g-code-to-engrave-numbers-on-cylinders?start=10#116888Maybe
 <_feed> wasn't used the way it is now in 2018  It now seems to bea read 
only variable for current feed setting.On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 11:35 AM John 
Dammeyer wrote:> Let me ask this question again with a 
bit more information.>> I downloaded the G-Code for the scale and Linux fails 
with "cannot assign> read only parameter" on the #=20 line.  It made it 
through the rest> first few assignments.  I looked at the file with and the 
lines are only> terminated with a 0x0A.  No odd characters in the file.  What 
could be> wrong?>> Thanks> John>> ;Attempt to engrave scale rings> ;Engraving 
is done in the XA plane and in the postive direction from X =0>> #<_dia> = 50 ; 
scale diamter> #<_depth> = 0.2 ; engraving depth> #<_height> = 2 ; character 
height> #<_scale> = 1 ; unit conversion> #<_inc> = 10 ; angle between marks> 
#<_feed> = 20>> G21>> F #<_feed>>>>>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Sam Sokolik]

I think you grabbed the old version - at the top of the post he has a link
to the end of the post...  :)

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/27169-g-code-to-engrave-numbers-on-cylinders?start=10#116888

Maybe <_feed> wasn't used the way it is now in 2018  It now seems to be
a read only variable for current feed setting.

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 11:35 AM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Let me ask this question again with a bit more information.
>
> I downloaded the G-Code for the scale and Linux fails with "cannot assign
> read only parameter" on the #=20 line.  It made it through the rest
> first few assignments.  I looked at the file with and the lines are only
> terminated with a 0x0A.  No odd characters in the file.  What could be
> wrong?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
> ;Attempt to engrave scale rings
> ;Engraving is done in the XA plane and in the postive direction from X =0
>
> #<_dia> = 50 ; scale diamter
> #<_depth> = 0.2 ; engraving depth
> #<_height> = 2 ; character height
> #<_scale> = 1 ; unit conversion
> #<_inc> = 10 ; angle between marks
> #<_feed> = 20
>
> G21
>
> F #<_feed>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[John Dammeyer]

Let me ask this question again with a bit more information.

I downloaded the G-Code for the scale and Linux fails with "cannot assign read 
only parameter" on the #=20 line.  It made it through the rest first few 
assignments.  I looked at the file with and the lines are only terminated with 
a 0x0A.  No odd characters in the file.  What could be wrong?

Thanks 
John

;Attempt to engrave scale rings
;Engraving is done in the XA plane and in the postive direction from X =0

#<_dia> = 50 ; scale diamter
#<_depth> = 0.2 ; engraving depth
#<_height> = 2 ; character height
#<_scale> = 1 ; unit conversion
#<_inc> = 10 ; angle between marks
#<_feed> = 20

G21

F #<_feed>




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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Just to add another point of view:
Okuma controllers do the same thing in C-axis machining on a lathe; the 
backplot is stationary while the tool rotates.

> On Mar 30, 2021, at 6:04 PM, Sam Sokolik  wrote:
> 
>  I think I have tried all compinations -
> but the tool seems to move around the gcode - instead of the gcode moving
> around the tool...


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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Sam Sokolik]

I guess linuxcnc would need to know in machine coordinates where the center
of rotation is..   Could this be done with kins?  Then (thinking out loud
Don't yell at me)

The Geometry line could have another attribute for each letter...   Now
there is order and sign..  Maybe capital vs small letter

Ie

GEOMETRY = aXYZ  (lower case would designate that the gcode preview would
rotate instead of the tool tip...)

SMOP right?  ;)

sam


On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 9:13 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 30 March 2021 19:35:40 John Dammeyer wrote:
>
> > Photo yes.  No G Code if that was supposed to be attached.  I find
> > when I run the CAM simulation on VisualCAM (AlibreCAM) that the tool
> > moves around the work piece rather than the work piece image rotating.
> >  If that's what you meant. If you attach the G-Code I can try it here
> > on my A axis.
> > John
>
> Both the link and the photo arrived here ok.  And thats the same as I get
> here, the tool points at the centerline of the X axis and rotates around
> that imaginary point. I've gotten more or less used to it, but its not
> natural to to me either,
>
> As for the question, I've always treated it independently as I've mounted
> my little 4" table I motorized all 3 ways, On both mills but it has
> always been XYZA in the .ini file as I rarely have made a simultaneos
> move. I just drove it to where I wanted it, like in 90 degree jumps when
> I was making tap hats, drilling and tapping 4 holes for 4 grub screws to
> grab the flats of a tap. I did do a circular engrave once but was not
> impressed with the font and didn't waste any more material. So I can't
> offer any magic incantations, sorry.
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: March-30-21 4:05 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> > >
> > > Has anyone done work on the preview for a 4th axis mounted on the
> > > table? I feel like in this situation - the gcode preview should be
> > > spinning while the tool tip stay stationary...  Uless I have the
> > > geometry set wrong - but currently I have it set to AXYZ.  I think I
> > > have tried all compinations - but the tool seems to move around the
> > > gcode - instead of the gcode moving around the tool...
> > >
> > > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20210329_220745.jpg
> > >
> > > sam
> > >
> > > let me know if the attachment comes through...
> >
> > ___
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>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 30 March 2021 19:35:40 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Photo yes.  No G Code if that was supposed to be attached.  I find
> when I run the CAM simulation on VisualCAM (AlibreCAM) that the tool
> moves around the work piece rather than the work piece image rotating.
>  If that's what you meant. If you attach the G-Code I can try it here
> on my A axis.
> John

Both the link and the photo arrived here ok.  And thats the same as I get 
here, the tool points at the centerline of the X axis and rotates around 
that imaginary point. I've gotten more or less used to it, but its not 
natural to to me either, 

As for the question, I've always treated it independently as I've mounted 
my little 4" table I motorized all 3 ways, On both mills but it has 
always been XYZA in the .ini file as I rarely have made a simultaneos 
move. I just drove it to where I wanted it, like in 90 degree jumps when 
I was making tap hats, drilling and tapping 4 holes for 4 grub screws to 
grab the flats of a tap. I did do a circular engrave once but was not 
impressed with the font and didn't waste any more material. So I can't 
offer any magic incantations, sorry.

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: March-30-21 4:05 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> >
> > Has anyone done work on the preview for a 4th axis mounted on the
> > table? I feel like in this situation - the gcode preview should be
> > spinning while the tool tip stay stationary...  Uless I have the
> > geometry set wrong - but currently I have it set to AXYZ.  I think I
> > have tried all compinations - but the tool seems to move around the
> > gcode - instead of the gcode moving around the tool...
> >
> > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20210329_220745.jpg
> >
> > sam
> >
> > let me know if the attachment comes through...
>
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-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[John Dammeyer]

You mean that the tool is on the inside of the arc?

> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: March-30-21 4:55 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> 
> This might make a bit more sense of what I am talking about..
> 
> http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-53-52.png
> 
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:51 PM Sam Sokolik  wrote:
> 
> > it makes it so the bounding box doesn;t really make sense,,,
> >
> >
> > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-50-41.png
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:44 PM Sam Sokolik  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> >>
> >> that is the screenshot - the gcode from andy is here..
> >>
> >>
> >> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/27169-g-code-to-engrave-numbers-on-cylinders?start=0
> >>
> >> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:38 PM John Dammeyer 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Photo yes.  No G Code if that was supposed to be attached.  I find when
> >>> I run the CAM simulation on VisualCAM (AlibreCAM) that the tool moves
> >>> around the work piece rather than the work piece image rotating.  If 
> >>> that's
> >>> what you meant.
> >>> If you attach the G-Code I can try it here on my A axis.
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> > -Original Message-
> >>> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> >>> > Sent: March-30-21 4:05 PM
> >>> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >>> > Subject: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> >>> >
> >>> > Has anyone done work on the preview for a 4th axis mounted on the
> >>> table?
> >>> >  I feel like in this situation - the gcode preview should be spinning
> >>> while
> >>> > the tool tip stay stationary...  Uless I have the geometry set wrong -
> >>> but
> >>> > currently I have it set to AXYZ.  I think I have tried all
> >>> compinations -
> >>> > but the tool seems to move around the gcode - instead of the gcode
> >>> moving
> >>> > around the tool...
> >>> >
> >>> > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20210329_220745.jpg
> >>> >
> >>> > sam
> >>> >
> >>> > let me know if the attachment comes through...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[John Dammeyer]

I downloaded from that link and LinuxCNC complains here:
#<_feed> = 20
With cannot assign read only parameter.

> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: March-30-21 4:44 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> 
> http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
> 
> that is the screenshot - the gcode from andy is here..
> 
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/27169-g-code-to-engrave-numbers-on-cylinders?start=0
> 
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:38 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > Photo yes.  No G Code if that was supposed to be attached.  I find when I
> > run the CAM simulation on VisualCAM (AlibreCAM) that the tool moves around
> > the work piece rather than the work piece image rotating.  If that's what
> > you meant.
> > If you attach the G-Code I can try it here on my A axis.
> > John
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: March-30-21 4:05 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> > >
> > > Has anyone done work on the preview for a 4th axis mounted on the table?
> > >  I feel like in this situation - the gcode preview should be spinning
> > while
> > > the tool tip stay stationary...  Uless I have the geometry set wrong -
> > but
> > > currently I have it set to AXYZ.  I think I have tried all compinations -
> > > but the tool seems to move around the gcode - instead of the gcode moving
> > > around the tool...
> > >
> > > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20210329_220745.jpg
> > >
> > > sam
> > >
> > > let me know if the attachment comes through...
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Sam Sokolik]

This might make a bit more sense of what I am talking about..

http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-53-52.png

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:51 PM Sam Sokolik  wrote:

> it makes it so the bounding box doesn;t really make sense,,,
>
>
> http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-50-41.png
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:44 PM Sam Sokolik  wrote:
>
>>
>> http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
>>
>> that is the screenshot - the gcode from andy is here..
>>
>>
>> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/27169-g-code-to-engrave-numbers-on-cylinders?start=0
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:38 PM John Dammeyer 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Photo yes.  No G Code if that was supposed to be attached.  I find when
>>> I run the CAM simulation on VisualCAM (AlibreCAM) that the tool moves
>>> around the work piece rather than the work piece image rotating.  If that's
>>> what you meant.
>>> If you attach the G-Code I can try it here on my A axis.
>>> John
>>>
>>> > -Original Message-
>>> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
>>> > Sent: March-30-21 4:05 PM
>>> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>>> > Subject: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
>>> >
>>> > Has anyone done work on the preview for a 4th axis mounted on the
>>> table?
>>> >  I feel like in this situation - the gcode preview should be spinning
>>> while
>>> > the tool tip stay stationary...  Uless I have the geometry set wrong -
>>> but
>>> > currently I have it set to AXYZ.  I think I have tried all
>>> compinations -
>>> > but the tool seems to move around the gcode - instead of the gcode
>>> moving
>>> > around the tool...
>>> >
>>> > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20210329_220745.jpg
>>> >
>>> > sam
>>> >
>>> > let me know if the attachment comes through...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>>
>>

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Sam Sokolik]

it makes it so the bounding box doesn;t really make sense,,,

http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-50-41.png

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:44 PM Sam Sokolik  wrote:

>
> http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png
>
> that is the screenshot - the gcode from andy is here..
>
>
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/27169-g-code-to-engrave-numbers-on-cylinders?start=0
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:38 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
>> Photo yes.  No G Code if that was supposed to be attached.  I find when I
>> run the CAM simulation on VisualCAM (AlibreCAM) that the tool moves around
>> the work piece rather than the work piece image rotating.  If that's what
>> you meant.
>> If you attach the G-Code I can try it here on my A axis.
>> John
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: March-30-21 4:05 PM
>> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> > Subject: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
>> >
>> > Has anyone done work on the preview for a 4th axis mounted on the table?
>> >  I feel like in this situation - the gcode preview should be spinning
>> while
>> > the tool tip stay stationary...  Uless I have the geometry set wrong -
>> but
>> > currently I have it set to AXYZ.  I think I have tried all compinations
>> -
>> > but the tool seems to move around the gcode - instead of the gcode
>> moving
>> > around the tool...
>> >
>> > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20210329_220745.jpg
>> >
>> > sam
>> >
>> > let me know if the attachment comes through...
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[Sam Sokolik]

http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/Screenshot_2021-03-30_18-00-14.png

that is the screenshot - the gcode from andy is here..

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/27169-g-code-to-engrave-numbers-on-cylinders?start=0

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 6:38 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Photo yes.  No G Code if that was supposed to be attached.  I find when I
> run the CAM simulation on VisualCAM (AlibreCAM) that the tool moves around
> the work piece rather than the work piece image rotating.  If that's what
> you meant.
> If you attach the G-Code I can try it here on my A axis.
> John
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: March-30-21 4:05 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> >
> > Has anyone done work on the preview for a 4th axis mounted on the table?
> >  I feel like in this situation - the gcode preview should be spinning
> while
> > the tool tip stay stationary...  Uless I have the geometry set wrong -
> but
> > currently I have it set to AXYZ.  I think I have tried all compinations -
> > but the tool seems to move around the gcode - instead of the gcode moving
> > around the tool...
> >
> > http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20210329_220745.jpg
> >
> > sam
> >
> > let me know if the attachment comes through...
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)

[John Dammeyer]

Photo yes.  No G Code if that was supposed to be attached.  I find when I run 
the CAM simulation on VisualCAM (AlibreCAM) that the tool moves around the work 
piece rather than the work piece image rotating.  If that's what you meant.
If you attach the G-Code I can try it here on my A axis.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: March-30-21 4:05 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Rotary axis preview (in axis interface)
> 
> Has anyone done work on the preview for a 4th axis mounted on the table?
>  I feel like in this situation - the gcode preview should be spinning while
> the tool tip stay stationary...  Uless I have the geometry set wrong - but
> currently I have it set to AXYZ.  I think I have tried all compinations -
> but the tool seems to move around the gcode - instead of the gcode moving
> around the tool...
> 
> http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20210329_220745.jpg
> 
> sam
> 
> let me know if the attachment comes through...



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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage

[Chris Albertson]

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 12:07 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

>
> So how is this solved?   How would the A axis know the diameter and be
> able to translate that a request of F14.7 should really be F360 when Z is
> being moved at the same time?  Odds are I've configured the CAM software
> wrong but if I was going to just manually write some G-Code that involved
> simultaneous motion what would I do?


The math is not hard.  Assume you are tracking the position of X,Y,Z.SO
the cutter is at (x, y, z).  Assume the A axis is parallel to the X axis
and interectest the YZ plan at (Ya, Za)

The distance fromt cutter to the A axis is just the pythagoriam formula  =
square root( (y-Ya)^2 + (z-Za)^2 )
Then you always divide the roation rate by the above distance and you get a
constant cut rate.  But (x, y, z) constantly changes you you need to
re-compute the distance  continously before every g-code command.  Good
thing you have a computer.  I'd hate to have to write 4-axis code by hand.

The above might by done by a g-code interpeter or the CAM software or a
human coder.   It gets slightly harder if the rotation axis is not parallel
to either X, Y or Z axis. and even worse when three or four rotary tale are
stacked as in say a robot shoulder joint


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage

[John Dammeyer]

I've done some more work testing the G93 with LinuxCNC after MecSoft laid out 
how they do the calculations.

Fundamentally, as has been stated before, the A axis is rotary and done in 
degrees.  However, the MecSoft code still treats the A axis as if it moved a 
physical distance.

Some simple tests have demonstrated this comparing a move of 5" on the X axis 
to an A Rotary axis move of 5" around the circumference of a 0.7958 Radius 
cylinder (360 degrees)

If the G-code is 
G93 G1 X5 F6 it takes 10 seconds to move the 5"
G93 G1 A5 F6 doesn't come close to moving 5"  Only 5 degrees.

If we assume the Z axis is set at -0.7958" then we'd set A to 360 degrees which 
is 5" worth of circumference.
G93 G1 A360 F6 and it also takes 10 seconds.  In fact if we move both at the 
same time
G93 G1 X5 A360 F6 they both finish at exactly the same time and both have moved 
the correct distance.

More complicated moves with multiple axis or Z changing will require some 
interesting math but it has to be done in the CAM software.

John Dammeyer




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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage

[John Dammeyer]

Yes.  MecSoft showed me how to set that up but I'm not impressed so far.I 
used the application from the link that Martin posted and compared the results. 
 First the AlibreCAM (MecSoft) file used G1 and the Fxx values were as a result 
very slow.   And F8.9 for a 3 degree A axis move still takes about 6 seconds.  
(1/8.9 * 60 = seconds for the move).

Change that G1 to a G0 and it speeds up.The program Martin linked doesn't 
accept the G-Code with G93 already installed.  So it has to be created without 
G93.  Then it also complained about the G1 and installed a G0 to set the 
speeds.   Speeds were now more like 1800 degrees/minute for a 3 degree turn of 
the axis.

So probably need to come up with a benchmark G-code set of lines that can then 
time how long it takes the rotary axis to move given that I might want a 
cutting speed of 12 IPM to avoid damaging the tool bit or the work.

John



> -Original Message-
> From: Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users [mailto:emc-
> us...@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: July-22-19 7:30 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Greg Bentzinger
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage
> 
> [Greg]
> BTW MecSoft added the Inverse time mode option to the AlibreCAM,
> RhinoCAM, and VisualMill plug in for SolidWorks.
> Once I get my Hurco Conversion functional I intend to do a series of
> LinuxCNC post processor files for the Mecsoft CAM engine.
> [/Greg]
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage

[Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users]

[Greg]
BTW MecSoft added the Inverse time mode option to the AlibreCAM, RhinoCAM, and 
VisualMill plug in for SolidWorks.
Once I get my Hurco Conversion functional I intend to do a series of LinuxCNC 
post processor files for the Mecsoft CAM engine.
[/Greg]

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 22 July 2019 15:21:50 Martin Dobbins wrote:

> Real fast reply John, but does this video help?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0ffiCekhpE
>
> Martin
>
> 
> From: John Dammeyer 
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 12:06 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
>  Subject: [Emc-users] Rotary axis
> usage
>
> I've run into a situation with the CAM file generated by MECSOFT
> AlibreCAM appears to have a problem.  I've asked this on the support
> group for AlibreCAM but I think it's a more general question involving
> simultaneous 4 axis milling where I write the G-Code myself.
>
>
> N1 G17 G20 G40 G90
> (4th Axis Create Cylinder/Round)
> N2 T2 M06
> N3 S2 M3
> N4 G0 X-2.2788 Y0. Z1.664 A46.8 F0.
> N5 G1 Z1.45 A46.8 F11.
> N6 X-2.4983 Z1.4113 A46.8
> N7 X-2.5389 Z1.404 A46.3
> N8 Z1.4 A45.
> N9 X-2.5388 A43.7 F14.7
> N10 X-2.4959 A43.2
> N11 X-0.0018 A43.2
>
>
> Effectively the feed rate on the X,Y and Z is 11 IPM or 14.7 IPM. But
> the rotary axis is angular under LinuxCNC and measured in degrees per
> minute. I believe that makes sense because the diameter of the part
> being rotated determines the actual feed rate. So if the circumference
> was 14.7" and the cutting speed is set at 14.7 IPM then the rotary
> axis should turn 360 degrees per minute.
>
> But as shown in line N9 we have simultaneous motion on X and A but at
> F14.7.
>
> Clearly if the diameter was such that the circumference was 29.4" then
> the feed rate of the A axis would have to be half or 180
> degrees/minute.
>
> Running the G-Code above sees the Z or X axis moving at the expected
> speed.  Watching paint dry is more interesting than watching the A
> axis turn.  But if I just do a G1 A360 F360 the motion of the A axis
> at 4.68 diameter  appears to be about the same speed  as the X or Z
> horizontally.  It also takes exactly 1 minute to move 360 degrees at
> 360 degrees/minute.
>
> So how is this solved?   How would the A axis know the diameter and be
> able to translate that a request of F14.7 should really be F360 when Z
> is being moved at the same time?  Odds are I've configured the CAM
> software wrong but if I was going to just manually write some G-Code
> that involved simultaneous motion what would I do?
>
> The AXIS display shows 14.7 for speed.  The Z is known.  Is there
> something missing so that the A axis actually gets a much faster rate?
>
> Thanks
> John

Thats purty. download the zip file by clicking on the MORE button below 
the video.  Otherwise  the dl link is hidden.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 22 July 2019 13:06:34 John Dammeyer wrote:

> I've run into a situation with the CAM file generated by MECSOFT
> AlibreCAM appears to have a problem.  I've asked this on the support
> group for AlibreCAM but I think it's a more general question involving
> simultaneous 4 axis milling where I write the G-Code myself.
>
>
> N1 G17 G20 G40 G90
> (4th Axis Create Cylinder/Round)
> N2 T2 M06
> N3 S2 M3
> N4 G0 X-2.2788 Y0. Z1.664 A46.8 F0.
> N5 G1 Z1.45 A46.8 F11.
> N6 X-2.4983 Z1.4113 A46.8
> N7 X-2.5389 Z1.404 A46.3
> N8 Z1.4 A45.
> N9 X-2.5388 A43.7 F14.7
> N10 X-2.4959 A43.2
> N11 X-0.0018 A43.2
>
>
> Effectively the feed rate on the X,Y and Z is 11 IPM or 14.7 IPM. But
> the rotary axis is angular under LinuxCNC and measured in degrees per
> minute. I believe that makes sense because the diameter of the part
> being rotated determines the actual feed rate. So if the circumference
> was 14.7" and the cutting speed is set at 14.7 IPM then the rotary
> axis should turn 360 degrees per minute.
>
> But as shown in line N9 we have simultaneous motion on X and A but at
> F14.7.
>
> Clearly if the diameter was such that the circumference was 29.4" then
> the feed rate of the A axis would have to be half or 180
> degrees/minute.
>
> Running the G-Code above sees the Z or X axis moving at the expected
> speed.  Watching paint dry is more interesting than watching the A
> axis turn.  But if I just do a G1 A360 F360 the motion of the A axis
> at 4.68 diameter  appears to be about the same speed  as the X or Z
> horizontally.  It also takes exactly 1 minute to move 360 degrees at
> 360 degrees/minute.
>
> So how is this solved?   How would the A axis know the diameter and be
> able to translate that a request of F14.7 should really be F360 when Z
> is being moved at the same time?  Odds are I've configured the CAM
> software wrong but if I was going to just manually write some G-Code
> that involved simultaneous motion what would I do?
>
> The AXIS display shows 14.7 for speed.  The Z is known.  Is there
> something missing so that the A axis actually gets a much faster rate?
>
See, in LinuxCNC_Documentation.pdf, the G93-94-95 versions of how a feed 
rate in interpreted. You probably want G93, with a < 1.0 feed rate for 
starters. A F0.25 would take 4 minutes for the A move, with any other 
axises in that _same command line_ slaved to the A progress. F0.5 would 
take 2 minutes.   Note that is effective only for the line it begins, 
and reverts to normal motion then line is completed. 

I haven't used it enough to be a spurt. let alone an expert so fire up 
your favorite pdf viewer and read it starting at G93 to make sure. Any 
conversions of degrees to linear speed, similar to CSS, will have to be 
done in the gcode, I think...  I've carved drill bits for wood working 
that way by making the spiral with a round nosed bit. Didn't work like a 
$25 bit, but it did get the job done. I was planting short (16") 4x4's 
on the front deck, dropping/driving the 4x4 post to hold a plastic fence 
on one side of the wheelchair ramp I built when the missus fell & broke 
a hip. Came out a heck of a lot more rigid than I thought it was going 
to be.

> Thanks
> John
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Martin,
May be a fast short  reply but the first minute of the video completely 
described the problem.  While on doggy walk this morning pondering the problem 
I knew the solution had to be as described in the video.  But I didn't realize 
there is a G93 that is used in conjunction with a post processing of the G-Code 
file.  A very simple solution.

Didn't think I was running into something new.  But that video link you posted 
didn't show up when I googled the problem.  And most forum posts were also even 
ignorant of the issue which really surprised me.

Thanks
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: July-22-19 12:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage
> 
> Real fast reply John, but does this video help?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0ffiCekhpE
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> From: John Dammeyer 
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 12:06 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Subject: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage
> 
> I've run into a situation with the CAM file generated by MECSOFT AlibreCAM
> appears to have a problem.  I've asked this on the support group for
> AlibreCAM but I think it's a more general question involving simultaneous 4
> axis milling where I write the G-Code myself.
> 
> 
> N1 G17 G20 G40 G90
> (4th Axis Create Cylinder/Round)
> N2 T2 M06
> N3 S2 M3
> N4 G0 X-2.2788 Y0. Z1.664 A46.8 F0.
> N5 G1 Z1.45 A46.8 F11.
> N6 X-2.4983 Z1.4113 A46.8
> N7 X-2.5389 Z1.404 A46.3
> N8 Z1.4 A45.
> N9 X-2.5388 A43.7 F14.7
> N10 X-2.4959 A43.2
> N11 X-0.0018 A43.2
> 
> 
> Effectively the feed rate on the X,Y and Z is 11 IPM or 14.7 IPM. But the
> rotary axis is angular under LinuxCNC and measured in degrees per minute.
> I believe that makes sense because the diameter of the part being rotated
> determines the actual feed rate. So if the circumference was 14.7" and the
> cutting speed is set at 14.7 IPM then the rotary axis should turn 360 degrees
> per minute.
> 
> But as shown in line N9 we have simultaneous motion on X and A but at
> F14.7.
> 
> Clearly if the diameter was such that the circumference was 29.4" then the
> feed rate of the A axis would have to be half or 180 degrees/minute.
> 
> Running the G-Code above sees the Z or X axis moving at the expected
> speed.  Watching paint dry is more interesting than watching the A axis turn.
> But if I just do a G1 A360 F360 the motion of the A axis at 4.68 diameter
> appears to be about the same speed  as the X or Z horizontally.  It also takes
> exactly 1 minute to move 360 degrees at 360 degrees/minute.
> 
> So how is this solved?   How would the A axis know the diameter and be
> able to translate that a request of F14.7 should really be F360 when Z is
> being moved at the same time?  Odds are I've configured the CAM software
> wrong but if I was going to just manually write some G-Code that involved
> simultaneous motion what would I do?
> 
> The AXIS display shows 14.7 for speed.  The Z is known.  Is there something
> missing so that the A axis actually gets a much faster rate?
> 
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage

[Martin Dobbins]

Real fast reply John, but does this video help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0ffiCekhpE

Martin


From: John Dammeyer 
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 12:06 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: [Emc-users] Rotary axis usage

I've run into a situation with the CAM file generated by MECSOFT AlibreCAM 
appears to have a problem.  I've asked this on the support group for AlibreCAM 
but I think it's a more general question involving simultaneous 4 axis milling 
where I write the G-Code myself.


N1 G17 G20 G40 G90
(4th Axis Create Cylinder/Round)
N2 T2 M06
N3 S2 M3
N4 G0 X-2.2788 Y0. Z1.664 A46.8 F0.
N5 G1 Z1.45 A46.8 F11.
N6 X-2.4983 Z1.4113 A46.8
N7 X-2.5389 Z1.404 A46.3
N8 Z1.4 A45.
N9 X-2.5388 A43.7 F14.7
N10 X-2.4959 A43.2
N11 X-0.0018 A43.2


Effectively the feed rate on the X,Y and Z is 11 IPM or 14.7 IPM. But the 
rotary axis is angular under LinuxCNC and measured in degrees per minute.
I believe that makes sense because the diameter of the part being rotated 
determines the actual feed rate. So if the circumference was 14.7" and the 
cutting speed is set at 14.7 IPM then the rotary axis should turn 360 degrees 
per minute.

But as shown in line N9 we have simultaneous motion on X and A but at F14.7.

Clearly if the diameter was such that the circumference was 29.4" then the feed 
rate of the A axis would have to be half or 180 degrees/minute.

Running the G-Code above sees the Z or X axis moving at the expected speed.  
Watching paint dry is more interesting than watching the A axis turn.  But if I 
just do a G1 A360 F360 the motion of the A axis at 4.68 diameter  appears to be 
about the same speed  as the X or Z horizontally.  It also takes exactly 1 
minute to move 360 degrees at 360 degrees/minute.

So how is this solved?   How would the A axis know the diameter and be able to 
translate that a request of F14.7 should really be F360 when Z is being moved 
at the same time?  Odds are I've configured the CAM software wrong but if I was 
going to just manually write some G-Code that involved simultaneous motion what 
would I do?

The AXIS display shows 14.7 for speed.  The Z is known.  Is there something 
missing so that the A axis actually gets a much faster rate?

Thanks
John





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[Emc-users] Rotary axis usage

[John Dammeyer]

I've run into a situation with the CAM file generated by MECSOFT AlibreCAM 
appears to have a problem.  I've asked this on the support group for AlibreCAM 
but I think it's a more general question involving simultaneous 4 axis milling 
where I write the G-Code myself.


N1 G17 G20 G40 G90
(4th Axis Create Cylinder/Round)
N2 T2 M06
N3 S2 M3
N4 G0 X-2.2788 Y0. Z1.664 A46.8 F0.
N5 G1 Z1.45 A46.8 F11.
N6 X-2.4983 Z1.4113 A46.8
N7 X-2.5389 Z1.404 A46.3
N8 Z1.4 A45.
N9 X-2.5388 A43.7 F14.7
N10 X-2.4959 A43.2
N11 X-0.0018 A43.2


Effectively the feed rate on the X,Y and Z is 11 IPM or 14.7 IPM. But the 
rotary axis is angular under LinuxCNC and measured in degrees per minute.
I believe that makes sense because the diameter of the part being rotated 
determines the actual feed rate. So if the circumference was 14.7" and the 
cutting speed is set at 14.7 IPM then the rotary axis should turn 360 degrees 
per minute.

But as shown in line N9 we have simultaneous motion on X and A but at F14.7.

Clearly if the diameter was such that the circumference was 29.4" then the feed 
rate of the A axis would have to be half or 180 degrees/minute.

Running the G-Code above sees the Z or X axis moving at the expected speed.  
Watching paint dry is more interesting than watching the A axis turn.  But if I 
just do a G1 A360 F360 the motion of the A axis at 4.68 diameter  appears to be 
about the same speed  as the X or Z horizontally.  It also takes exactly 1 
minute to move 360 degrees at 360 degrees/minute.

So how is this solved?   How would the A axis know the diameter and be able to 
translate that a request of F14.7 should really be F360 when Z is being moved 
at the same time?  Odds are I've configured the CAM software wrong but if I was 
going to just manually write some G-Code that involved simultaneous motion what 
would I do?

The AXIS display shows 14.7 for speed.  The Z is known.  Is there something 
missing so that the A axis actually gets a much faster rate?

Thanks
John





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[Emc-users] Rotary axis system

[aaron moore]

Hi
I am having trouble getting my router to run a fourth rotary axis nicely. It 
does the job. but rapid and cut speeds both seem very inconsistant. I notice 
that there is a configuration page for such a machine on the wiki site, but it 
looks pretty complicated. What benefits does it have over simply configuring 
with the stepper wizard, and if it does improve performance, I would be 
grateful if someone could talk a complete ejit through setting it up.
Here she is speeded up x a zillion http://www.cnccraft.co.uk/3-dimensional-work/
Thanks
Aaron



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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis system

[andy pugh]

On 27 March 2014 11:08, aaron moore aaronmo...@linuxmail.org wrote:

 I am having trouble getting my router to run a fourth rotary axis nicely. It 
 does the job. but rapid and cut speeds both seem very inconsistant.

A combined X/Y/Z and A rapid move will run at a speed such that all
axes arrive at the end-point at the same time. What you might be
seeing is the linear axes being slowed down because the rotary axis
can't keep up.
So, an X-rapid with an A-move will happen at very different speeds
depending on how far the A-axis is moving.

  I notice that there is a configuration page for such a machine on the wiki 
 site, but it looks pretty complicated. What benefits does it have over simply 
 configuring with the stepper wizard,

Hard to say without the link :-)

-- 
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis system

[aaron moore]

- Original Message -
From: andy pugh
Sent: 03/27/14 12:49 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis system

On 27 March 2014 11:08, aaron moore aaronmo...@linuxmail.org wrote:  I am 
having trouble getting my router to run a fourth rotary axis nicely. It does 
the job. but rapid and cut speeds both seem very inconsistant. A combined X/Y/Z 
and A rapid move will run at a speed such that all axes arrive at the end-point 
at the same time. What you might be seeing is the linear axes being slowed down 
because the rotary axis can't keep up. So, an X-rapid with an A-move will 
happen at very different speeds depending on how far the A-axis is moving.  I 
notice that there is a configuration page for such a machine on the wiki site, 
but it looks pretty complicated. What benefits does it have over simply 
configuring with the stepper wizard, Hard to say without the link :-) Here is 
the link to the wiki page 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rot4thaxiskins I have seen. On a 
number of jobs I have done recently all axix will go significantly faster and 
at certain points during the job they seemin
 gly double their feed speed then slow down again. A rapid x move is very slow. 
I do have very slow old computer.will this affect speed? None of this makes 
any sense to me. Cheers Aaron -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. 
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis system

[andy pugh]

On 27 March 2014 13:26, aaron moore aaronmo...@linuxmail.org wrote:
 I notice that there is a configuration page for such a machine on the wiki 
 site, but it looks pretty complicated.
 Here is the link to the wiki page 
 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rot4thaxiskins

That is for a system with a tool-tip coordinate system. Unless you are
producing XYZAUVW G-code then that kinematics won't be any help to
you.

 I have seen. On a number of jobs I have done recently all axix will go 
 significantly faster and at certain points during the job they seemingly 
 double their feed speed then slow down again.

Are you sure that the G-code isn't requesting that?

 A rapid x move is very slow. I do have very slow old computer.will this 
 affect speed?

The computer might affect speed, that rather depends on what step rate
it can generate, and what step-rate you need.

The F-word in the G-code only affects the linear axes, and the rotary
axes either run at the speed required to arrive at the end-point at
the same time, or if the rotary axis isn't fast enough to do that,
then the linear axes will be slowed down so that they arrive at the
end-point at the same time as the rotary.

If you want to achieve constant cut-rate through the wood then you may
need to generate G-code in inverse-time mode, (where you tell the
system how long a move should take, not how fast to move). You will
still have the slowest axis throttling the others, though.

Normal feed-per-minute doesn't have much meaning in combined
linear/rotary systems. The motion planner does not know where the axis
of rotation is (it is equally valid for the Z=0 to be the surface of
the work or the axis of the rotary)

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis system

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 27 March 2014 09:23:24 aaron moore did opine:

 Hi
 I am having trouble getting my router to run a fourth rotary axis
 nicely. It does the job. but rapid and cut speeds both seem very
 inconsistant. I notice that there is a configuration page for such a
 machine on the wiki site, but it looks pretty complicated. What
 benefits does it have over simply configuring with the stepper wizard,
 and if it does improve performance, I would be grateful if someone
 could talk a complete ejit through setting it up. Here she is speeded
 up x a zillion http://www.cnccraft.co.uk/3-dimensional-work/ Thanks
 Aaron

I have been doing this intermittently myself but usually in steel.  But my 
rotary axis is a 4 90/1 table I motorized.  What I see (poorly, video 
stutters on this machine) would represent about the top speed my table can 
do with air injection.

That section of my .ini file:

[AXIS_3]
TYPE = ANGULAR
HOME = 0.0
MAX_VELOCITY = 36.0
MAX_ACCELERATION = 100.0
STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 200.0
SCALE = 320.0
FERROR = 1
MIN_FERROR = .25
MIN_LIMIT = -1
MAX_LIMIT = 1
HOME_OFFSET = 0.0
HOME_SEARCH_VEL=0.0
#HOME_SEQUENCE=3
BACKLASH = 0.056

velocity's are in degrees/second, meaning it would take 10 seconds to turn 
one full turn.  But because I have the bearing pulled down tight to try and 
constrain the backlash when its at position, there has been a air port 
drilled into it, and a small groove cut into the castings mating face, to 
allow an air hose to pressurize it, lifting the table free enough to turn 
when it needs to turn.  Otherwise I had better run it much slower, giving 
the 252 oz/in motor enough torque to move it.  For most of what I use it 
for, like drilling the flash-holes in a #209 nipple, or carving the hex 
wrench flats on the nipple, the tool is not in contact with the work until 
it has reached position.

You didn't say how your table is being driven, and the video doesn't show 
it, but for fancy engraving or carving (table?) legs such as I see there, I 
think that since the wood doesn't need the holding power of a 90/1 worm 
drive, I would use a timing belt setup with a high, say 10/1 tooth ratio.  
Maybe even in 2 stages to control the size of the pulley's.  From a 425 
oz/in motor, that should be more than enough holding power to carve that 
oak, white ash, or cherry at speeds high enough to control cherry's want to 
burn if the tool is kept clean and sharp. With enough voltage into the 
driver, I'd guess you could do a turn a second or more while maintaining a 
small fraction of a mm for accuracy.

 Tel: 01209 890084
 Mob: 07805686188
 Email:aaronmo...@linuxmail.org
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[Emc-users] Rotary axis in EMC2

[Igor Chudov]

I am working on adding a 4th axis (parallel to X) to my Bridgeport Interact
2 mill.

I would like to clarify the standard practice of units.

Should one turn of the rotary table be 1.0 or 360.0 or 2*pi?

In other words, if I instruct the rotary axis to move by 1 with G0, should
it turn one degree, one radian, or full turn?

Thanks
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis in EMC2

[Chris Radek]

On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 10:36:50PM -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:
 
 Should one turn of the rotary table be 1.0 or 360.0 or 2*pi?
 
 In other words, if I instruct the rotary axis to move by 1 with G0, should
 it turn one degree, one radian, or full turn?


You can do any scale you like, but the standard way is to use degrees.


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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary axis in EMC2

[Igor Chudov]

Just the answer I wanted, thanks Chris.

i

On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Chris Radek ch...@timeguy.com wrote:

 On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 10:36:50PM -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:
 
  Should one turn of the rotary table be 1.0 or 360.0 or 2*pi?
 
  In other words, if I instruct the rotary axis to move by 1 with G0,
 should
  it turn one degree, one radian, or full turn?


 You can do any scale you like, but the standard way is to use degrees.



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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis

[Ian W. Wright]

Hi Len,
 I could see where you could configure the rotary axis as if it were a
 linear axis, but you'd have to reconfigure that axis and restart emc2
 every time you changed stock to a different diameter.

Another possibility, depending on the kind of work would be 
to configure the rotary as a linear axis of some fixed 
length and then scale that axis only of the drawing to suit. 
i.e. feed the machine a distorted drawing with A at the 
fixed length of the wrapped axis but X and Z normal size.
One program which I have come across - ArtCam - uses a 
linear A axis but I can't remember how the scaling worked. I 
do know, however, that the company I saw it at produced 
decoration round a range of sizes from small ferrules for 
round knife handles up to large tea/coffee pots and the work 
was one-offs in the main. They didn't use EMC2 but I can't 
see how another program could be significantly different..

Ian


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[Emc-users] Rotary Axis

[Len Shelton]

I have a customer trying to set up EMC2 with a rotary axis such that he 
can carve on the surface as if its a plane wrapped around the 
circumference of the work piece and has coordinated motion such that he 
can get a constant surface speed. Because the rotary axis is set up in 
degrees, he cannot get the feed rates to match. I other words, if he 
programs F100, the rotary axis is dog slow, and if he programs F500, the 
linear axis moves way too fast. As far as I know you cannot have two F 
parameters on one line of g-code.

I am sure this has to be something simple, but I just don't know what.

I could see where you could configure the rotary axis as if it were a 
linear axis, but you'd have to reconfigure that axis and restart emc2 
every time you changed stock to a different diameter.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
 Len



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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis

[Igor Chudov]

I am wondering about the same question. How would I issue G code to
mill a helical spiral using a rotary axis (4th axis) on a mill.

i

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Len Shelton l...@probotix.com wrote:
 I have a customer trying to set up EMC2 with a rotary axis such that he
 can carve on the surface as if its a plane wrapped around the
 circumference of the work piece and has coordinated motion such that he
 can get a constant surface speed. Because the rotary axis is set up in
 degrees, he cannot get the feed rates to match. I other words, if he
 programs F100, the rotary axis is dog slow, and if he programs F500, the
 linear axis moves way too fast. As far as I know you cannot have two F
 parameters on one line of g-code.

 I am sure this has to be something simple, but I just don't know what.

 I could see where you could configure the rotary axis as if it were a
 linear axis, but you'd have to reconfigure that axis and restart emc2
 every time you changed stock to a different diameter.

 Any ideas?

 Thanks,
  Len



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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis

[BRIAN GLACKIN]

What is the max velocity of the rotary axis? on your Linear axes? By
setting each in your ini, can't you prevent the runnaway with exceptionally
high numbers?

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am wondering about the same question. How would I issue G code to
 mill a helical spiral using a rotary axis (4th axis) on a mill.

 i

 On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Len Shelton l...@probotix.com wrote:
  I have a customer trying to set up EMC2 with a rotary axis such that he
  can carve on the surface as if its a plane wrapped around the
  circumference of the work piece and has coordinated motion such that he
  can get a constant surface speed. Because the rotary axis is set up in
  degrees, he cannot get the feed rates to match. I other words, if he
  programs F100, the rotary axis is dog slow, and if he programs F500, the
  linear axis moves way too fast. As far as I know you cannot have two F
  parameters on one line of g-code.
 
  I am sure this has to be something simple, but I just don't know what.
 
  I could see where you could configure the rotary axis as if it were a
  linear axis, but you'd have to reconfigure that axis and restart emc2
  every time you changed stock to a different diameter.
 
  Any ideas?
 
  Thanks,
   Len
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis

[BRIAN GLACKIN]

Hmm.. the difference in units (length vs radian) and the absolute velocity
may be an issue here.

 ducks into a dark corner hoping not to be seen

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 9:20 PM, BRIAN GLACKIN glackin.br...@gmail.comwrote:

 What is the max velocity of the rotary axis? on your Linear axes? By
 setting each in your ini, can't you prevent the runnaway with exceptionally
 high numbers?


 On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am wondering about the same question. How would I issue G code to
 mill a helical spiral using a rotary axis (4th axis) on a mill.

 i

 On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Len Shelton l...@probotix.com wrote:
  I have a customer trying to set up EMC2 with a rotary axis such that he
  can carve on the surface as if its a plane wrapped around the
  circumference of the work piece and has coordinated motion such that he
  can get a constant surface speed. Because the rotary axis is set up in
  degrees, he cannot get the feed rates to match. I other words, if he
  programs F100, the rotary axis is dog slow, and if he programs F500, the
  linear axis moves way too fast. As far as I know you cannot have two F
  parameters on one line of g-code.
 
  I am sure this has to be something simple, but I just don't know what.
 
  I could see where you could configure the rotary axis as if it were a
  linear axis, but you'd have to reconfigure that axis and restart emc2
  every time you changed stock to a different diameter.
 
  Any ideas?
 
  Thanks,
   Len
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis

[dambacher-retrofit.de]

Hi Len

Am 08.12.2010 00:17, schrieb Len Shelton:
 I have a customer trying to set up EMC2 with a rotary axis such that he 
 can carve on the surface as if its a plane wrapped around the 
 circumference of the work piece and has coordinated motion such that he 
 can get a constant surface speed. Because the rotary axis is set up in 
 degrees, he cannot get the feed rates to match. I other words, if he 
 programs F100, the rotary axis is dog slow, and if he programs F500, the 
 linear axis moves way too fast. As far as I know you cannot have two F 
 parameters on one line of g-code.
 
 I am sure this has to be something simple, but I just don't know what.
 
 I could see where you could configure the rotary axis as if it were a 
 linear axis, but you'd have to reconfigure that axis and restart emc2 
 every time you changed stock to a different diameter.

For getting the correct feed rates you have to calculate the surface speed.
This needs the diameter of the work piece.
This also sets the size (limits) of working plane.

I would try to set up the rotary part this way:
* create a multiplication block between commanded position and your position 
loop
* try to set the multiplication factor either by the programmed D/A pins of emc
(M62-M65, motion.digital-out)
* or use a (uvw) axis as adjustment axis to set the factor as diameter.
* maybe use some hal calculations to set the axis limits.

This way you could set the diameter within the nc program. the zero position
would be fix, but the axis position would change according to the mult.-factor.

bye
Ulf

---
Ulf Dambacher
i...@dambacher-retrofit.de
---

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Rob Jansen]

The same procedure as Belli Button suggest is indeed standard. Two (half 
height) gears mounted on top of each other and interlocking the the 
driving gear to remove the play on the gearing.
Easy for standard gears or trapezoid and ball screw axis (two nuts on 
one axis) but a bit more complex for worm gears.

Most rotary tables (like the vertex one: 
http://hamilton-tool-supply.amazonwebstore.com/B000HRY444/M/B000HRY444.htm) 
have a little pin located next to the hand wheel. That pin moves the 
worm in an eccentric mount so you can move the worm closer to the bronze 
wheel - I found you can remove the play by moving this.
But ... the problem is that the bronze wheel may not be fully centric 
mounted, resulting in a difference of the distance between bronze wheel 
and worm drive, resulting in too much friction or too much play. To fix 
this you'll have to reposition the bronze wheel.

I guess the more professional and expensive ones will be using some way 
to center the wheel (using a conus) but on the Vertex rotary table there 
is a bit of play on the mount of the wheel on the rotating table. Still 
I managed to reduce the play on my vertex 4th axis to an acceptable 
level - but then I am not milling fine pitched large gears with it ...

Regards,

Rob

Belli Button wrote:
 It can be done with the Bonfig style worm gearboxes.  What you need to do is 
 strip the gearbox, remove the bronze wheel and cut it in 'half' (slice?) 
 with a wire cutter.  Then mill three slots concentric to the centre on one 
 half and drill and tap three corresponding holes on the other half.  When 
 you reassemble the gearbox, slide the one half relative to the other to take 
 up the backlash.  This seems to work really well but does require a bit of 
 engineering.  We have built some fairly large '4th Axes' like this for not a 
 great deal of money.

 Clear as mud?
   

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Ian W. Wright]

I know my rotary is tiny by comparison with most of your 
machines but FWIW, I cut my own brass wormwheel using a tap 
running in the lathe. It took a couple of attempts before I 
got the right number of teeth for what I wanted but, for 
cnc, the exact ratio of the worm and wheel is probably not 
to important. I used a conventional screw tap but it would 
be perfectly feasible to use an acme tap or even make a 
cutter out of a scrap length of leadscrew. Because I am only 
dealing with light loads I just left the wormwheel with a 
concave thread but, if you arranged for the blank to pass 
across the tap, the teeth could be made flat. On the rotary 
I mounted the worm ( screwcut hardened and tempered tool 
steel ) in ball races with one end adjustable by a screwed 
collar to take up endshake. The wormwheel shaft is fitted in 
a eccentric bush so that the depth of engagement between the 
worm and wheel can be adjusted to remove backlash.
-- 

Best wishes,

Ian


Ian W. Wright
Sheffield,  UK


The difference between theory and practice is much smaller 
in theory than in practice.

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Rainer Schmidt]

Haha.. The Belt Stiffness fools many. It's a PU timing belt which is
steel loaded. I tensioned it to 160lbs and the think sounds like a
guitar string. There is NO flex whatsoever. If there would be... most
cars would sink their valves into the cylinders more often than not.
The ratio is 1:3 and the stepper has 10 steps micro stepping. So I get
2000 steps per revolution times three. So I get 360/6000 degree
resolution which I could reproduce. If you would use a servo then you
can easily tripple that resolution with the right encoder. I chose a
stepper there because I wanted the high holding torque for unbalanced
work. Did I mention that it is FAST.

I also hae a sherline table on my Taig mill. And that's where it
belongs. I mill pen's with it and for that it's nice and very precise.
However, it does wear as all the stuff does which is not designed for
CNC kinda moves (which means a LOT of moves). And for the price of it
I milled my monster 4th. The timkin bearings are sitting in those 3
Inch AL blocks 8))). Derived from the shaft all measurements became
slightly beefy lol.

I also milled a groove into the bottom of the head and the tailstock
so alignment is easy. The biggest challenge was to bore that hole for
the MT3 sleeve. Compared to the tailstock I must say that the sherline
tailstock resembles a toothpick.

If you wish to mill tiny stuff and not to often then go for the
sherline table combo. If you need a quick turning cnc solution then
build one. I took a look at all sorts of tables and the ones suitable
would have been precision US or European made rotary tables which
would have cost me several thousand dollars and that for no other
reason but backlash. Na building one or having one build is
probably the best way to go as there are no affordable CNC tables.

Yesterday I used it to cut a thread into a larger hole in a wood
block. No way to do that with the slow turning regular tables. it has
to go 'swish swish swish' and not scrp, screechh,
squl. haha.

Have a good memorial day and recall what others did for your
particular country so they did not do it in vain.
Rainer

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 25 May 2009, Rainer Schmidt wrote:
Haha.. The Belt Stiffness fools many. It's a PU timing belt which is
steel loaded. I tensioned it to 160lbs and the think sounds like a
guitar string. There is NO flex whatsoever. If there would be... most
cars would sink their valves into the cylinders more often than not.
The ratio is 1:3 and the stepper has 10 steps micro stepping. So I get
2000 steps per revolution times three. So I get 360/6000 degree
resolution which I could reproduce. If you would use a servo then you
can easily tripple that resolution with the right encoder. I chose a
stepper there because I wanted the high holding torque for unbalanced
work. Did I mention that it is FAST.

I also hae a sherline table on my Taig mill. And that's where it
belongs. I mill pen's with it and for that it's nice and very precise.
However, it does wear as all the stuff does which is not designed for
CNC kinda moves (which means a LOT of moves). And for the price of it
I milled my monster 4th. The timkin bearings are sitting in those 3
Inch AL blocks 8))). Derived from the shaft all measurements became
slightly beefy lol.

I also milled a groove into the bottom of the head and the tailstock
so alignment is easy. The biggest challenge was to bore that hole for
the MT3 sleeve. Compared to the tailstock I must say that the sherline
tailstock resembles a toothpick.

If you wish to mill tiny stuff and not to often then go for the
sherline table combo. If you need a quick turning cnc solution then
build one. I took a look at all sorts of tables and the ones suitable
would have been precision US or European made rotary tables which
would have cost me several thousand dollars and that for no other
reason but backlash. Na building one or having one build is
probably the best way to go as there are no affordable CNC tables.

Yesterday I used it to cut a thread into a larger hole in a wood
block. No way to do that with the slow turning regular tables. it has
to go 'swish swish swish' and not scrp, screechh,
squl. haha.

Have a good memorial day and recall what others did for your
particular country so they did not do it in vain.
Rainer

I looked at your 'rotary table' and must say I'm impressed.  Unforch, it would 
take up the whole x table of my expanded micromill.  So ATM, when I need a 
4th, I have a $100 4 grizzly I put a 425 oz stepper on, and it can make 4 to 
7 hundred degrees a minute depending on the mood its in.  Backlash is highly 
variable, and this unit is so cheap it doesn't even have a socket for a 
center.  I also had to do some finish machining to take the wobble out, the 
table did not sit tightly enough against the base as shipped.  Using edm, I 
put some holes in a 10 carbide saw blade that was way too hard for 
conventional drilling a few weeks ago so I could fasten it to this table, 
rigged a dremel with a diamond wheel off the regular head, and did a decent 
job of sharpening that dull saw blade.  The thing didn't seem to have much if 
any cyclic errors, either in the worm or in the bullgear, at least in 
comparison to the spacing of the teeth on the blade, a Freud made, chrome 
plated avanti.  Sweet blade, but a few thousand feet of cuts in cherry will 
sour any blade eventually.

I don't have any provision to lock the table, but make sure it always attacks 
the work rather than backing into it.  I haven't had it miss cut yet because 
of that, at least not that I've seen in the work.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Roland Jollivet]

What about using an AC motor reduction drive. They're pretty robust but I'm
not sure about the backlash. Usually easy to find as surplus.
Something like this;
http://www.bonfiglioli.com/vfpres_uk.html

Replace the AC motor with a stepper.


Regards
Roland



2009/5/25 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com

 I need to start to think about making or getting a rotary axis. The
 first thing that comes to mind is to adapt a servo and encoder to one of
 these:
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260343949073

 What other options should I consider, maybe start from scratch, if so
 what type of drive?
 --
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA



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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Kirk Wallace]

On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 18:12 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote:
 What about using an AC motor reduction drive. They're pretty robust but I'm
 not sure about the backlash. Usually easy to find as surplus.
 Something like this;
 http://www.bonfiglioli.com/vfpres_uk.html
 
 Replace the AC motor with a stepper.
 
 
 Regards
 Roland

If the backlash on the worm drive can be adjusted, and I can find one
cheap enough, I can't see why it wouldn't work. It would be fun to make
one of each design, but that's not too likely to happen. Sometimes, I'll
visit a friend or a dumpster and fate will decide what I do. It sure
would be nice to have a little less fate in my life (or not).

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Rainer Schmidt]

When you can manage to keep the axis running in one direction the
backlash is of no factor. I like the dremel idea. I made a very simple
attachment for the Dremel and my Southbend. Beats the $1000+ for the
grinding attachment for thw three times I used it. However, I was
careful to keep that grit of the machine.
R

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Belli Button]

It can be done with the Bonfig style worm gearboxes.  What you need to do is 
strip the gearbox, remove the bronze wheel and cut it in 'half' (slice?) 
with a wire cutter.  Then mill three slots concentric to the centre on one 
half and drill and tap three corresponding holes on the other half.  When 
you reassemble the gearbox, slide the one half relative to the other to take 
up the backlash.  This seems to work really well but does require a bit of 
engineering.  We have built some fairly large '4th Axes' like this for not a 
great deal of money.

Clear as mud?


- Original Message - 
From: Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs


 On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 18:12 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote:
 What about using an AC motor reduction drive. They're pretty robust but 
 I'm
 not sure about the backlash. Usually easy to find as surplus.
 Something like this;
 http://www.bonfiglioli.com/vfpres_uk.html

 Replace the AC motor with a stepper.


 Regards
 Roland

 If the backlash on the worm drive can be adjusted, and I can find one
 cheap enough, I can't see why it wouldn't work. It would be fun to make
 one of each design, but that's not too likely to happen. Sometimes, I'll
 visit a friend or a dumpster and fate will decide what I do. It sure
 would be nice to have a little less fate in my life (or not).

 -- 
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA


 --
 Register Now for Creativity and Technology (CaT), June 3rd, NYC. CaT
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Dave Engvall]

That is standard antibacklash technology ... the B-17 intervalometer  
had several sets of them with springs between the two gears to  
maintain loading on
the gears.

Nice tight worm gear sets are made by lapping the sets.  see  
Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy by Wayne R Moore, pg 221-228.

HTH

Dave
On May 25, 2009, at 1:31 PM, Belli Button wrote:

 It can be done with the Bonfig style worm gearboxes.  What you need  
 to do is
 strip the gearbox, remove the bronze wheel and cut it in  
 'half' (slice?)
 with a wire cutter.  Then mill three slots concentric to the centre  
 on one
 half and drill and tap three corresponding holes on the other  
 half.  When
 you reassemble the gearbox, slide the one half relative to the  
 other to take
 up the backlash.  This seems to work really well but does require a  
 bit of
 engineering.  We have built some fairly large '4th Axes' like this  
 for not a
 great deal of money.

 Clear as mud?


 - Original Message -
 From: Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc- 
 us...@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 7:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs


 On Mon, 2009-05-25 at 18:12 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote:
 What about using an AC motor reduction drive. They're pretty  
 robust but
 I'm
 not sure about the backlash. Usually easy to find as surplus.
 Something like this;
 http://www.bonfiglioli.com/vfpres_uk.html

 Replace the AC motor with a stepper.


 Regards
 Roland

 If the backlash on the worm drive can be adjusted, and I can find one
 cheap enough, I can't see why it wouldn't work. It would be fun to  
 make
 one of each design, but that's not too likely to happen.  
 Sometimes, I'll
 visit a friend or a dumpster and fate will decide what I do. It sure
 would be nice to have a little less fate in my life (or not).

 -- 
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA


 - 
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[Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Kirk Wallace]

I need to start to think about making or getting a rotary axis. The
first thing that comes to mind is to adapt a servo and encoder to one of
these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260343949073 

What other options should I consider, maybe start from scratch, if so
what type of drive?
-- 
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http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Rainer Schmidt]

There may be more elaborate versions but here is my ghetto 4th...
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,11044.0.htm
It has no backlash. Those turntables are all garbage for cnc because
of the backlash. Specially that Phase II China Junk.
It all looks good and costs less but once you try and make something
good with it you wonder why you fail and fail and fail.
I started of with ENCO stuff and other imports and after knowing what
I am doing pretty much ebay'd it of again.

I used a McMasters Shaft with ready made 1inch 8tpi threading on the
end to mount the chuck with that threading and I used a nut that size
for the pulley. Then there are timkin thrust bearings. Nothing
special, plain brute force. The shaft is solid 1,5 inches. Recently I
turned a 350lbs log with that and the corresponding 'light' tailstock.
Not an issue It will eat a Phase 2 4th axis for breakfast. I'd
cover it better from the elements if coolant should soak it. Which is
not complicated...

The thread allows me to use a variety of chucks I own.

Best of luck
Rainer with the Ghetto 4th 8)))

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Kirk Wallace
kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote:
 I need to start to think about making or getting a rotary axis. The
 first thing that comes to mind is to adapt a servo and encoder to one of
 these:
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260343949073

 What other options should I consider, maybe start from scratch, if so
 what type of drive?
 --
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA


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_
Rainer M. Schmidt
Complex Consulting LLC
b...@complexllc.com
VoIP (646)-233-1002
FAX (646)-435-9216

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Kirk Wallace]

On Sun, 2009-05-24 at 21:08 -0400, Rainer Schmidt wrote:
 There may be more elaborate versions but here is my ghetto 4th...
 http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,11044.0.htm
 It has no backlash. Those turntables are all garbage for cnc because
 of the backlash. Specially that Phase II China Junk.
 It all looks good and costs less but once you try and make something
 good with it you wonder why you fail and fail and fail.
 I started of with ENCO stuff and other imports and after knowing what
 I am doing pretty much ebay'd it of again.
 
 I used a McMasters Shaft with ready made 1inch 8tpi threading on the
 end to mount the chuck with that threading and I used a nut that size
 for the pulley. Then there are timkin thrust bearings. Nothing
 special, plain brute force. The shaft is solid 1,5 inches. Recently I
 turned a 350lbs log with that and the corresponding 'light' tailstock.
 Not an issue It will eat a Phase 2 4th axis for breakfast. I'd
 cover it better from the elements if coolant should soak it. Which is
 not complicated...
 
 The thread allows me to use a variety of chucks I own.
 
 Best of luck
 Rainer with the Ghetto 4th 8)))

The more I look at your setup, the more I like it. It wouldn't be all
that expensive to make, and can be improved as needed. My guess is that
positional stiffness is dependent, in my case, mostly on the best PID
stiffness I could get when tuning the servo. Since, axis speed is not
very important, I could make the big pulley as big as will fit, with the
small pulley as small as can be ordered or made. It just seems like the
belt would not be very stiff, but I think it's worth a try. I could even
use a worm gear set from Mcmaster. I'd like to have a standard taper on
the spindle, maybe an L0 or L00, so I can use a standard face plate. 5C
collets would be nice too.
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Frank Tkalcevic]

My first rotary axis was built using a harmonic drive gear box, mounted
directly on a Brushed DC motor
(http://www.franksworkshop.com.au/CNC/4thAxis/4thAxis.htm#assembly).  The
gearbox is 100:1.  I've only done light machining so far, but I think it
should be strong enough for my gantry mill.  It is fast, and has no
backlash.

I am looking at building another rotary axis for my mill drill, but I'm not
sure what kind of holding torques are required for big cutters, cutting hard
materials.  I've been looking on ebay for bigger harmonic gear boxes, but I
can only find the component sets - these don't have any load bearing
bearings. I have an 8 rotary table, but I'd never use that for CNC - the
backlash is terrible.  When I use it on my mill drill, I have to lock it in
place before cutting (and remember to unlock it before moving it).  To use
it for CNC, I'd need to ensure it only turned in one direction, and I could
lock it in position before machining.

Hopefully your thread will throw up some ideas.


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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[saadp]

Nice job!

What about the Sherline CNC rotary table?

It works great. Isn't it a great affordable product instead of reinventing the
wheel?

The reason why I am writing this post is the following: no matter how great the
hardware is, the BIG limitation lies in the CAM part.

It is time to come up with an open souce CAM software. Unfortunately, I am not a
software engineer.

Patrice
Portland, OR

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Re: [Emc-users] rotary axis speed

[Ed]

Chris Radek wrote:
 On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:43:58AM -0700, Brian Pitt wrote:
 
I've finally gotten around to slapping the stepper on my rotary table and I'm 
having some trouble
getting it to run the way it should

it jogs just fine ,right up there at 1080 deg/min and the scale reading 
matches the display 
and even goes in the right direction so that much of it is configured right

but when I go to MDI the 'A' axis it runs dead slow or slower no matter what 
feed rate I 
give it in G01 and doesn't go any faster in G00 

is there any fix for this ?
 
 
 
 Your [TRAJ]MAX_VELOCITY and [TRAJ]MAX_ACCELERATION need to be as high
 or higher than the highest of all your [AXIS_0] ... [AXIS_3] sections
 
 When you increase those two things it'll fix the behavior in
 coordinated mode.
 
 The sample configuration max is my XYZA stepper mini mill.  Maybe
 looking at it might help you too.
 
 Chris
 
HOORAY!!  This fixed the problem I had! I had been putting a short 
linear move in with my A axis moves just to speed it up. Never thought 
about the settings in TRAJ area.  Ed.

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[Emc-users] rotary axis speed

[Brian Pitt]

I've finally gotten around to slapping the stepper on my rotary table and I'm 
having some trouble
getting it to run the way it should

it jogs just fine ,right up there at 1080 deg/min and the scale reading matches 
the display 
and even goes in the right direction so that much of it is configured right

but when I go to MDI the 'A' axis it runs dead slow or slower no matter what 
feed rate I 
give it in G01 and doesn't go any faster in G00 

is there any fix for this ?


these are the ini file settings I'm using now if that helps

[TRAJ]
#+ machine specific settings

STEPGEN_MAXACCEL =  396.0
AXES =  4
# COORDINATES = X Y Z R P W
COORDINATES =   X Y Z A
HOME =  0 0 0 0
LINEAR_UNITS =  inch
ANGULAR_UNITS = degree
CYCLE_TIME =0.010
DEFAULT_VELOCITY =  .18
DEFAULT_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 12
MAX_VELOCITY =  .34
MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY =  18
DEFAULT_ACCELERATION =  6
MAX_ACCELERATION =  18

###
# Axes sections
###

;
;
;

#Fourth axis A
[AXIS_3]

TYPE =  ANGULAR
HOME =  0.0
MAX_VELOCITY =  18
MAX_ACCELERATION =  360.0
STEPGEN_MAXVEL =20
STEPGEN_MAXACCEL =  396
BACKLASH = 0.000
INPUT_SCALE =   320
OUTPUT_SCALE = 1.000
MIN_LIMIT = -36000.0
MAX_LIMIT = 36000.0
FERROR = 5.0
MIN_FERROR = 1.0
HOME_OFFSET =0.0
HOME_SEARCH_VEL =  0
HOME_LATCH_VEL =0
HOME_USE_INDEX = NO
HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = NO

Brian
--
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Re: [Emc-users] rotary axis speed

[Chris Radek]

On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:43:58AM -0700, Brian Pitt wrote:
 I've finally gotten around to slapping the stepper on my rotary table and I'm 
 having some trouble
 getting it to run the way it should
 
 it jogs just fine ,right up there at 1080 deg/min and the scale reading 
 matches the display 
 and even goes in the right direction so that much of it is configured right
 
 but when I go to MDI the 'A' axis it runs dead slow or slower no matter what 
 feed rate I 
 give it in G01 and doesn't go any faster in G00 
 
 is there any fix for this ?


Your [TRAJ]MAX_VELOCITY and [TRAJ]MAX_ACCELERATION need to be as high
or higher than the highest of all your [AXIS_0] ... [AXIS_3] sections

When you increase those two things it'll fix the behavior in
coordinated mode.

The sample configuration max is my XYZA stepper mini mill.  Maybe
looking at it might help you too.

Chris


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Re: [Emc-users] rotary axis speed

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 September 2007, Chris Radek wrote:
On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:43:58AM -0700, Brian Pitt wrote:
 I've finally gotten around to slapping the stepper on my rotary table and
 I'm having some trouble getting it to run the way it should

 it jogs just fine ,right up there at 1080 deg/min and the scale reading
 matches the display and even goes in the right direction so that much of
 it is configured right

 but when I go to MDI the 'A' axis it runs dead slow or slower no matter
 what feed rate I give it in G01 and doesn't go any faster in G00

 is there any fix for this ?

Your [TRAJ]MAX_VELOCITY and [TRAJ]MAX_ACCELERATION need to be as high
or higher than the highest of all your [AXIS_0] ... [AXIS_3] sections

I have been under the impression it was the other way around so the steppers 
could play catchup.  I've actually mine overspeed for a small fraction of a 
second doing that I think, or I was hearing the backlash comp moves, not sure 
which now.

When you increase those two things it'll fix the behavior in
coordinated mode.

Hmm, if A is the only thing commanded to move, that shouldn't be 
a 'coordinated' move for an MDI command, or so I'd think.

The sample configuration max is my XYZA stepper mini mill.  Maybe
looking at it might help you too.

Where is this 'max' located?  It doesn't seem to be part of 
~/emc2/configs/stepper in this 2.1.7 install.

I've gotta get a motor on my table so I can play in a slightly deeper section 
of the pool.  Got the 4 axis amp  4 of those 425 motors from Jeff, came in 
friday.  But I'm in the middle of a gun cabinet project, for me. :-)

Thanks, Chris

-- 
Cheers, Gene
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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Re: [Emc-users] rotary axis speed

[Alex Joni]

 ~/emc2/configs/stepper in this 2.1.7 install.

it's installed in /etc/emc2/sample-configs/max

Regards,
Alex


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Re: [Emc-users] rotary axis speed

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 September 2007, Alex Joni wrote:
 ~/emc2/configs/stepper in this 2.1.7 install.

it's installed in /etc/emc2/sample-configs/max

Ahh, so it is, thanks Alex.

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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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Re: [Emc-users] rotary axis speed

[Brian Pitt]

On Sunday 23 September 2007 08:12, Chris Radek wrote:
 Your [TRAJ]MAX_VELOCITY and [TRAJ]MAX_ACCELERATION need to be as high
 or higher than the highest of all your [AXIS_0] ... [AXIS_3] sections
 When you increase those two things it'll fix the behavior in
 coordinated mode.

OK that got the rotary axis working right ,cool

now how do I get the jog slider for the linear axes back to some reasonable 
range
I mean it would be great if they'd really go 1080 IPM but with a stepper based 
micromill
thats just silly :)

we've got a mill at work that rapids at 1500 IPM ,when it had just came in the 
first thing everyone did
after hitting cycle start is to slam down the E-Stop and take a little break

Brian
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Re: [Emc-users] rotary axis speed

[Chris Radek]

On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 11:54:43AM -0700, Brian Pitt wrote:
 
 OK that got the rotary axis working right ,cool
 
 now how do I get the jog slider for the linear axes back to some reasonable 
 range
 I mean it would be great if they'd really go 1080 IPM but with a stepper 
 based micromill
 thats just silly :)

Again check out the settings in max's TRAJ section.


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Re: [Emc-users] rotary axis speed

[Brian Pitt]

On Sunday 23 September 2007 17:36, Chris Radek wrote:
 Again check out the settings in max's TRAJ section.

Ok found it ,the max.ini in /etc/emc2/sample-configs/max where I first looked 
is an older
3 axis version left over from the previous install

are the *_LINEAR_VELOCITY settings documented anywhere yet?
just a quick cheat sheet text file with all the currently available parameters 
listed would save non-programmers a great deal of time

Brian
--
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Re: [Emc-users] rotary axis questions

[Patrick Ferrick]

OK, before anybody goes to a lot of trouble to explain the finer points 
of adding a fourth axis...!  Here's the answer:  I stumbled across Ray 
Henry's (virtual) conversation with a dude whose username is chinamill, 
which cleared up just about all of my confusion.  Thanks, Ray!

Now I'm at the point of having the A axis present and accounted for, I 
have Astep and Adir coming out of pins 8 and 9, and the HAL config looks 
great.

And I get almost immediate following errors on joint 3, the fourth 
axis!   Argh.  It's been a while since I've done battle with this 
issue; I copied one of the existing axis configs and changed LINEAR to 
ANGULAR, and UNITS to 1, keeping all other parameters the same.  I 
figured since the X axis has been working fine for quite a while now, 
the A axis would too with the same maxvel, accel etc.  But no.

Is there anything fundamentally different about an angular axis that 
might account for the following errors?   I have tried lots of different 
FERRORS, etc. in an effort to get around them (as I have many times 
before) but so far, no luck.

thanks again,
Pat
 

-- 
===
Patrick Ferrick
Town of Webb School
Main Street
Old Forge, NY  13420

(315) 369-3222  
(315) 369-6216 (fax)


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