Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
2013/7/5 Kenneth Lerman kenneth.ler...@se-ltd.com Checking that every pin goes where it belongs is necessary, but not sufficient. You must also test that no pin goes where it doesn't belong. Did you check to see if any pins were shorted to each other? I checked power cable all the possible pairs of any 2 wire leads - there are no shorts. I connected the motor directly to 7i39 card (with very short (~30 cm) test wires) - it works just fine. Also jogging, when linked to PID (I had to hold it by hand to create at least some kind of load, otherwise it goes wild) works great. So the problem was in the cable. I already started to think about replacement cable and somehow decided to check it all once again with multimeter and while trying to put one multimeter leg to a particular pin in plug in motor end, I noticed that one wire seemed too loose than it should be. Little surgery of plug body with knife and I found that the wire had broke off of the pin leg. It was a matter of good luck for multimeter to show this particular wire lead to be ok. The end result is - a little soldering and problem solved! Machine works! Thanks everyone for your suggestions! -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
Viesturs Lācis wrote: It was a matter of good luck for multimeter to show this particular wire lead to be ok. No, that is bad luck when testing a defective connection shows it to be good! The end result is - a little soldering and problem solved! Machine works! Thanks everyone for your suggestions! Glad you got it solved. Jon -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Servo issue
Hello! I am stuck with a servo motor issue that I have no idea for the cause. Machine has 5i23 and 2x 7i39 cards with total of 4 servo motors. I set it up 2 months ago and it was working correctly. Machine was idle for few weeks until now. Motors 0, 1, 2 are working correctly, motor 3 does not move, pid 3 gets reaches its max value as soon as I try to jog the motor. 1) I swapped motor and feedback cables of motor 2 and motor 3 (they are on the same 7i39 board). Problem moved with the motor, so 7i39 board is fine. 2) I attached motor 0 to motor 3 cables on machine, motor 0 did not work; I attached motor 3 to motor 1 cables, motor 3 worked correctly; both of these things tell that problem is somewhere in motor wires; 3) so I took multimeter, and checked motor power cable between motor plug and 7i39 plug - all the lines are where they are supposed to be; 4) I tried to spin the motor in bldc config=n with bldc.value 0.15 and bldc.frequency explicitly set at 0,15 and 3 respectively (motor should slowly rotate as soon as pwmgen is enabled), but it moves just a very little and stops; The drive is ok, motor is ok, cable is ok, but now they are not working together. Everything was fine few weeks ago. I would appreciate any suggestions, what else can I try to understand, what exactly is wrong. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
On 5 July 2013 16:45, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: 4) I tried to spin the motor in bldc config=n with bldc.value 0.15 and bldc.frequency explicitly set at 0,15 and 3 respectively (motor should slowly rotate as soon as pwmgen is enabled), but it moves just a very little and stops; That's odd. Even if the motor has a bad winding or there is a broken power wire it should eventually jerk to a new position. Can you check that you are seeing the expected voltages on the 7i39 outputs? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
Viesturs Lācis wrote: The drive is ok, motor is ok, cable is ok, but now they are not working together. Everything was fine few weeks ago. Make sure, with a voltmeter, that the commutation signals from the motor are working, and giving a valid logic swing as you rotate the motors. Some Hall sensors need resistor pullup, and if you don't have proper pullup, the signals may be marginal such that they work SOME of the time. Jon -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
2013/7/5 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com Viesturs Lācis wrote: The drive is ok, motor is ok, cable is ok, but now they are not working together. Everything was fine few weeks ago. Make sure, with a voltmeter, that the commutation signals from the motor are working, and giving a valid logic swing as you rotate the motors. Some Hall sensors need resistor pullup, and if you don't have proper pullup, the signals may be marginal such that they work SOME of the time. I was trying in n mode with no feedback at all - it did not move either. Andy, I tried different motor on the same 7i39 channel and it moved correctly, so insufficient voltage on 7i39 outputs is not likely, but I will check tomorrow morning again. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
On 5 July 2013 17:18, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Make sure, with a voltmeter, that the commutation signals from the motor are working, In n mode the system should be acting like a dumb vfd, and no commutation is used. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
Hi Viesturs. Did you already check the motor windings resistence/impedence ? Did the motor get any kind of torque ? On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 6:25 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote: 2013/7/5 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com Viesturs Lācis wrote: The drive is ok, motor is ok, cable is ok, but now they are not working together. Everything was fine few weeks ago. Make sure, with a voltmeter, that the commutation signals from the motor are working, and giving a valid logic swing as you rotate the motors. Some Hall sensors need resistor pullup, and if you don't have proper pullup, the signals may be marginal such that they work SOME of the time. I was trying in n mode with no feedback at all - it did not move either. Andy, I tried different motor on the same 7i39 channel and it moved correctly, so insufficient voltage on 7i39 outputs is not likely, but I will check tomorrow morning again. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
oh sorry . Sure you already did it . Sometimes appened that you can measure the cable resistence with the multimeter and everything seems ok but after that if you apply voltage to the wires the problems come . Did you use extra flexible cables for the motor supply ? Are the cables fitted inside a cable chain ? If yes are you sure that the cable fitting respect the manufacturer specifications ? On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 6:34 PM, alex chiosso achio...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Viesturs. Did you already check the motor windings resistence/impedence ? Did the motor get any kind of torque ? On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 6:25 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote: 2013/7/5 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com Viesturs Lācis wrote: The drive is ok, motor is ok, cable is ok, but now they are not working together. Everything was fine few weeks ago. Make sure, with a voltmeter, that the commutation signals from the motor are working, and giving a valid logic swing as you rotate the motors. Some Hall sensors need resistor pullup, and if you don't have proper pullup, the signals may be marginal such that they work SOME of the time. I was trying in n mode with no feedback at all - it did not move either. Andy, I tried different motor on the same 7i39 channel and it moved correctly, so insufficient voltage on 7i39 outputs is not likely, but I will check tomorrow morning again. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
The motor works fine, when I swapped it on the machine with another one. 2013/7/5 alex chiosso achio...@gmail.com Hi Viesturs. Did you already check the motor windings resistence/impedence ? Did the motor get any kind of torque ? On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 6:25 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/7/5 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com Viesturs Lācis wrote: The drive is ok, motor is ok, cable is ok, but now they are not working together. Everything was fine few weeks ago. Make sure, with a voltmeter, that the commutation signals from the motor are working, and giving a valid logic swing as you rotate the motors. Some Hall sensors need resistor pullup, and if you don't have proper pullup, the signals may be marginal such that they work SOME of the time. I was trying in n mode with no feedback at all - it did not move either. Andy, I tried different motor on the same 7i39 channel and it moved correctly, so insufficient voltage on 7i39 outputs is not likely, but I will check tomorrow morning again. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
2013/7/5 alex chiosso achio...@gmail.com Did you use extra flexible cables for the motor supply ? I do not understand, what you mean. Are the cables fitted inside a cable chain ? Yes. If yes are you sure that the cable fitting respect the manufacturer specifications ? This is motor datasheet: http://www.cutting.lv/fileadmin/user_upload/60BLS70A-240-1000Z.pdfhttp://cutting.lv/fileadmin/user_upload/60BLS70A-240-1000Z.pdf It is all the data I have for the motor. Can You suggest me, what kind of cables does the motor need? Currently I have unshielded 0,75 mm^2 multistrand cable. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
First all the cable must be shielded. Secondary fot this kind of application you need at least flexible shielded cables. If you search for on google I am sure you will find many cable manufacturers for that kind. Il giorno 05/lug/2013 17:57, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com ha scritto: -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
Of course is not the shield the problem! The issue is that the cable used seems to be not ok. Shield is anyway a must for servo applications. And a flexible or extra flexible is a must for mobile cable chain/tray. I know about cables not working after time due to mechanical stress. Il giorno 05/lug/2013 18:23, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com ha scritto: On 5 July 2013 18:12, alex chiosso achio...@gmail.com wrote: First all the cable must be shielded. Secondary fot this kind of application you need at least flexible shielded cables. However, the problem here is nothing to do with lack of shielding. Did you check for pin-to-pin shorts in the wiring? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
.75 mm^2 is a light. I probably would have gone with at least 1.25 to 1.5 mm^2, but if you have rung out the cables for continuity, that is not going to keep things from moving. And this setup was working before.. right? Igus sells some very nice shielded trailing (Hi Flex) cables for reasonable prices. Igus.com / Igus.de. Dave On 7/5/2013 12:53 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2013/7/5 alex chiossoachio...@gmail.com Did you use extra flexible cables for the motor supply ? I do not understand, what you mean. Are the cables fitted inside a cable chain ? Yes. If yes are you sure that the cable fitting respect the manufacturer specifications ? This is motor datasheet: http://www.cutting.lv/fileadmin/user_upload/60BLS70A-240-1000Z.pdfhttp://cutting.lv/fileadmin/user_upload/60BLS70A-240-1000Z.pdf It is all the data I have for the motor. Can You suggest me, what kind of cables does the motor need? Currently I have unshielded 0,75 mm^2 multistrand cable. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
2013/7/5 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com Did you check for pin-to-pin shorts in the wiring? That seems very unlikely, but I will check that to be completely sure. 2013/7/5 Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com .75 mm^2 is a light. I probably would have gone with at least 1.25 to 1.5 mm^2, but if you have rung out the cables for continuity, that is not going to keep things from moving. And this setup was working before.. right? Yes, that is most confusing - it was working fine, I milled out a kitchen top. And then the machine has been idle for few weeks. Ok, to-do list for tomorrow morning is to check the cable for shorts and check the output voltage on 7i39. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo issue
See below... On 7/5/2013 11:45 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: Hello! I am stuck with a servo motor issue that I have no idea for the cause. Machine has 5i23 and 2x 7i39 cards with total of 4 servo motors. I set it up 2 months ago and it was working correctly. Machine was idle for few weeks until now. Motors 0, 1, 2 are working correctly, motor 3 does not move, pid 3 gets reaches its max value as soon as I try to jog the motor. 1) I swapped motor and feedback cables of motor 2 and motor 3 (they are on the same 7i39 board). Problem moved with the motor, so 7i39 board is fine. 2) I attached motor 0 to motor 3 cables on machine, motor 0 did not work; I attached motor 3 to motor 1 cables, motor 3 worked correctly; both of these things tell that problem is somewhere in motor wires; 3) so I took multimeter, and checked motor power cable between motor plug and 7i39 plug - all the lines are where they are supposed to be; Checking that every pin goes where it belongs is necessary, but not sufficient. You must also test that no pin goes where it doesn't belong. Did you check to see if any pins were shorted to each other? Ken 4) I tried to spin the motor in bldc config=n with bldc.value 0.15 and bldc.frequency explicitly set at 0,15 and 3 respectively (motor should slowly rotate as soon as pwmgen is enabled), but it moves just a very little and stops; The drive is ok, motor is ok, cable is ok, but now they are not working together. Everything was fine few weeks ago. I would appreciate any suggestions, what else can I try to understand, what exactly is wrong. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
