Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Jon Elson]

Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 14:55 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> ... snip
>   
>> I found a card that looks a lot like a Sunix PAR4018 which is known to
>> work(?), on Newegg:
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158040 
>> 
>
> Oops, Newegg's picture has "4008T" on the board so it may or may not be
> a "4018", but I guess I'll find out.
>
>   
I tested years ago with a 4008A chip, and it worked fine!
> I also forgot to mention that ECP may not be an option because it uses a
> FIFO which has latency which is a bad thing. So really, if EPP is
> broken, that only leaves SPP and PS2 modes, or some other user defined
> mode which would be unique to the application.
>   
ECP is not an extension of EPP, it is a way to make really fast 
streaming transfers to
a device that works just like a standard parallel port, like a printer.  
So, if the remote
device wants EPP, then ECP is not at all compatible.  EPP has both 
address and data
transfers, so you can have an array of registers and write to or read 
from them in
sequence.  ECP has no address transfer, so you'd need to adapt some 
other signal to
make the distinction.  Also, EPP has the computer always the master, 
while with ECP,
the drvice becomes the master when the computer is reading.  It is a 
totally different
scheme.  ECP does not really use a FIFO, it does DMA to/from system memory.
Also, it isn't clear whether DMA is easily handled under the RTAI 
environment.  If not,
then ECP isn't going to work.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Jon Elson]

gene heskett wrote:
> Based on the estimate that at least 95% of these aftermarket cards are 
> based on this MosChip 9815, could an insmod-able kernel driver could be 
> written that would make it work?
>
>   
Since the PPMC driver, and probably Mesa's, etc. go direct to the port 
registers with
inb and outb instructions, I'm not sure a driver could be inserted 
between the existing
EMC2 drivers and the hardware.

I know that you can run my boards with a completely software-driven 
handshaking in the
PS/2 bidirectional mode, but there is quite a lot of CPU overhead.  With 
a PCI parallel port
board, you can pump in or out bytes in 600 ns or less.  With the 
software handshaking,
it is more like 2 us per byte, although that measurement is from old 
motherboards, so it might
go faster today.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Jon Elson]

Kirk Wallace wrote:
> I'm beginning to think that maybe the most popular chip, maybe Moschip
> 9815, should be considered the standard, then make it work on that. The
> Lava and Siig cards may be better, but the Moschips are easy to find and
> cheap.
>   
The NetMos 9805 is so badly broken that it can't be made to work.  
Apparently, somewhere
in their OWN documents, they say to not use this mode, it doesn't work!  
Others have commented the
9815 is the same.

The whole scheme of the EPP mode is the chip does the hardware 
handshaking, and that
includes making the PC CPU go into a wait state until the transfer is 
done.  I don't recall the
exact nature of the problem, but the chip simply doesn't perform this 
part of the operation reliably.
Something like 20% of the transfers don't handshake correctly.

So, if the 9815 has the same sort of bug as the 9805, then it CAN'T be 
made to work in EPP
mode.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Kirk Wallace]

On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 14:55 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
... snip
> I found a card that looks a lot like a Sunix PAR4018 which is known to
> work(?), on Newegg:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158040 

Oops, Newegg's picture has "4008T" on the board so it may or may not be
a "4018", but I guess I'll find out.

I also forgot to mention that ECP may not be an option because it uses a
FIFO which has latency which is a bad thing. So really, if EPP is
broken, that only leaves SPP and PS2 modes, or some other user defined
mode which would be unique to the application.
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Kirk Wallace]

On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 16:13 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
... snip
> > I'm beginning to think that maybe the most popular chip, maybe Moschip
> > 9815, should be considered the standard, then make it work on that. The
> > Lava and Siig cards may be better, but the Moschips are easy to find and
> > cheap.
> 
> Based on the estimate that at least 95% of these aftermarket cards are 
> based on this MosChip 9815, could an insmod-able kernel driver could be 
> written that would make it work?

I think the problem is that the card's internal firmware sets how the
signals are handled. For receive, EMC2/Linux can't do anything until the
data gets latched into the card's register, but the latch timing is
screwy so that never happens. Maybe it could be fixed with a hardware
add on that would get the data setup early.

> If this could be done, it sure seems like as close as we can get to a one 
> size (nearly) fits all scenario. I think that of course would have to be 
> subject to how many motherboard's 0X378 ports would be broken.  Possibly 
> with some mechanism to insmod the correct, MosChip 9815 compatible driver 
> if it is going to be used.  I just looked at the linux drivers, and while 
> they detect this netmos 9815 chipset, the quirks handling seems more 
> generic, mostly via lookup tables.  An lspci -nnvv of my card:
> 
> 00:0a.0 Communication controller [0780]: NetMos Technology PCI 9815 Multi-
> I/O Controller [9710:9815] (rev 01)
> Subsystem: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic Device [1000:0020]
> Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster- SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- 
> Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
> Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- 
> SERR-  Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 11
> Region 0: I/O ports at a000 [size=8]
> Region 1: I/O ports at a400 [size=8]
> Region 2: I/O ports at a800 [size=8]
> Region 3: I/O ports at ac00 [size=8]
> Region 4: I/O ports at b000 [size=8]
> Region 5: I/O ports at b400 [size=16]
> Kernel driver in use: parport_pc
> Kernel modules: parport_pc
> 
> But this, to my untrained eye, gives me no clues as to the available 
> support modes.  From my presently running 2.6.37 kernel tree on this box,

Finding more details is what my example program tries to do:
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/example-2b.c 

a 53 in the ECP register equals SPP, if you can write a 149 to it then
it is in EPP mode.

Another aspect of this is that if the solution costs more that $20 or
$30 it might be better to use a PCI based signal generator.

I found a card that looks a lot like a Sunix PAR4018 which is known to
work(?), on Newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158040 

so for me, is readily available, in enough quantity. I should receive
one in a few days.

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Igor Chudov]

Personally, I have no problem with only 10% of available cards being
suitable for EMC, as long as it is clear to users what cards NOT to buy and
what cards to buy.

I will be hopefully getting the Lava card today and I will report my
success, or lack thereof, as soon as I know something.

Probably by the end of the weekend, as I am bone tired.

Igor


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 3:13 PM, gene heskett  wrote:

> On Friday, January 28, 2011 03:10:50 pm Kirk Wallace did opine:
>
> > On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 11:18 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
> > > Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > Really makes one wonder how any of this stuff works at all.  You
> > > > gotta love it.  A standard with no real standards...  ;-)
> > >
> > > Yes, completely appalling, and I have to keep hopping to make my
> > > boards work with a wide variety of par port chips.  What a nightmare!
> > >  I think I finally have all of my boards set up so that if they don't
> > > work with any particular parallel port, I can pretty honestly say
> > > "It's not MY fault!"  It is totally amazing to me that these chips
> > > can't even follow the LOOSE standard laid out in those docs, which
> > > just kind of show this signal comes before that one.
> > >
> > > Jon
> >
> > I'm beginning to think that maybe the most popular chip, maybe Moschip
> > 9815, should be considered the standard, then make it work on that. The
> > Lava and Siig cards may be better, but the Moschips are easy to find and
> > cheap.
>
> Based on the estimate that at least 95% of these aftermarket cards are
> based on this MosChip 9815, could an insmod-able kernel driver could be
> written that would make it work?
>
> If this could be done, it sure seems like as close as we can get to a one
> size (nearly) fits all scenario. I think that of course would have to be
> subject to how many motherboard's 0X378 ports would be broken.  Possibly
> with some mechanism to insmod the correct, MosChip 9815 compatible driver
> if it is going to be used.  I just looked at the linux drivers, and while
> they detect this netmos 9815 chipset, the quirks handling seems more
> generic, mostly via lookup tables.  An lspci -nnvv of my card:
>
> 00:0a.0 Communication controller [0780]: NetMos Technology PCI 9815 Multi-
> I/O Controller [9710:9815] (rev 01)
>Subsystem: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic Device [1000:0020]
> Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster- SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr-
> Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
>Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort-
> SERR- Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 11
>Region 0: I/O ports at a000 [size=8]
>Region 1: I/O ports at a400 [size=8]
>Region 2: I/O ports at a800 [size=8]
>Region 3: I/O ports at ac00 [size=8]
>Region 4: I/O ports at b000 [size=8]
>Region 5: I/O ports at b400 [size=16]
>Kernel driver in use: parport_pc
>Kernel modules: parport_pc
>
> But this, to my untrained eye, gives me no clues as to the available
> support modes.  From my presently running 2.6.37 kernel tree on this box,
>
> TODO-parport:
> ===
> Things to be done.
>
> 0. Fix the bugs (see BUGS-parport).
>
> 1. Proper documentation.
>
> 2. A better lp.c:
>
>   a) ECP support would be nice.  This can only work if both the port and
>  the printer support it.
>
>   b) Handle status readback automatically.  IEEE1284 printers can post
> status
>  bits when they have something to say.  We should read out and deal
>  with (maybe just log) whatever the printer wants to tell the world.
>
> 3. Support more hardware (eg m68k, Sun bpp).
>
> 4. A better PLIP (make use of bidirectional/ECP/EPP ports).
>
> See http://people.redhat.com/twaugh/parport/>.
> ===
> BUGS-Parport:
> Currently known (or at least suspected) bugs in parport:
>
> o lp doesn't allow you to read status while printing is in progress (is
>  this still true?).
>
> o parport_pc_ecp_read_block_pio() is broken.  parport will revert to the
>  software-driven mode in ieee1284_ops.c
>
> See http://people.redhat.com/twaugh/parport/>.
> ===
> So apparently Tim Waugh is aware there are problems.  But I am not the one
> to give him a nudge as we've had very strong words in the past over
> fedora's non-inclusion of gutenprint into fedora, 5 years after gimp-print
> had been declared obsolete and unsupported.  Just one of the reasons I no
> longer run fedora here on this box, now its pclos, and generally pretty
> upto date and sweet running.  My kde is now at 4.5.6 for instance, and
> since 4.6 was released yesterday, I expect that to show up in the pclos
> repos in another week.
>
> > BTW, the attached has been fun to look at parallel port registers.
> > (Caution, can cause harm to your PC if you plug in the wrong address)
>
> Saved.  Thanks.
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> 
> Anoint

Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[gene heskett]

On Friday, January 28, 2011 03:10:50 pm Kirk Wallace did opine:

> On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 11:18 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
> > Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > Really makes one wonder how any of this stuff works at all.  You
> > > gotta love it.  A standard with no real standards...  ;-)
> > 
> > Yes, completely appalling, and I have to keep hopping to make my
> > boards work with a wide variety of par port chips.  What a nightmare!
> >  I think I finally have all of my boards set up so that if they don't
> > work with any particular parallel port, I can pretty honestly say
> > "It's not MY fault!"  It is totally amazing to me that these chips
> > can't even follow the LOOSE standard laid out in those docs, which
> > just kind of show this signal comes before that one.
> > 
> > Jon
> 
> I'm beginning to think that maybe the most popular chip, maybe Moschip
> 9815, should be considered the standard, then make it work on that. The
> Lava and Siig cards may be better, but the Moschips are easy to find and
> cheap.

Based on the estimate that at least 95% of these aftermarket cards are 
based on this MosChip 9815, could an insmod-able kernel driver could be 
written that would make it work?

If this could be done, it sure seems like as close as we can get to a one 
size (nearly) fits all scenario. I think that of course would have to be 
subject to how many motherboard's 0X378 ports would be broken.  Possibly 
with some mechanism to insmod the correct, MosChip 9815 compatible driver 
if it is going to be used.  I just looked at the linux drivers, and while 
they detect this netmos 9815 chipset, the quirks handling seems more 
generic, mostly via lookup tables.  An lspci -nnvv of my card:

00:0a.0 Communication controller [0780]: NetMos Technology PCI 9815 Multi-
I/O Controller [9710:9815] (rev 01)
Subsystem: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic Device [1000:0020]
Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster- SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- 
Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- 
SERR- http://people.redhat.com/twaugh/parport/>.
===
BUGS-Parport:
Currently known (or at least suspected) bugs in parport:

o lp doesn't allow you to read status while printing is in progress (is
  this still true?).

o parport_pc_ecp_read_block_pio() is broken.  parport will revert to the
  software-driven mode in ieee1284_ops.c

See http://people.redhat.com/twaugh/parport/>.
===
So apparently Tim Waugh is aware there are problems.  But I am not the one 
to give him a nudge as we've had very strong words in the past over 
fedora's non-inclusion of gutenprint into fedora, 5 years after gimp-print 
had been declared obsolete and unsupported.  Just one of the reasons I no 
longer run fedora here on this box, now its pclos, and generally pretty 
upto date and sweet running.  My kde is now at 4.5.6 for instance, and 
since 4.6 was released yesterday, I expect that to show up in the pclos 
repos in another week.

> BTW, the attached has been fun to look at parallel port registers.
> (Caution, can cause harm to your PC if you plug in the wrong address)

Saved.  Thanks.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

Anoint, v.:
To grease a king or other great functionary already sufficiently
slippery.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Kirk Wallace]

On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 09:57 -0800, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
... snip
> > I'm beginning to think that maybe the most popular chip, maybe Moschip
> > 9815, should be considered the standard, then make it work on that. The
> > Lava and Siig cards may be better, but the Moschips are easy to find and
> > cheap.
> 
> The MOSchip 98XX series chips do not implement EPP in any way thats useful, 
> not only do they sample read data on the leading edge of the strobe so theres 
> no way to control their read timing (all other chips I've seen sample on the 
> trailing edge (allowing handshaking to work), they do no even do wrong 
> thing consistantly...
> 
> This is why the MOSChip data sheet say not to use EPP mode...
> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics

Thanks Peter. I know you, Jon, and others, have gone through this
parallel port stuff ad nauseam, but for my application even SPP seems to
have something to offer (set data reg on odd base periods, toggle strobe
on even, to make data steam), so that is why I'm pursuing this. I hope
it doesn't seem like I'm choosing to ignore really good advise. I'm just
trying to see what I can get away with.

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011, Chris Radek wrote:

> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:36:09 -0600
> From: Chris Radek 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
> 
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 02:04:54PM -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
>>
>>> This is why the MOSChip data sheet say not to use EPP mode...
>>
>> Do you happen to remember where you saw it? I looked up the datasheet:
>> http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/96/96718_1.pdf
>> and I didn't find any EPP-related errata. Perhaps there's a separate
>> doc listing the errata?
>
> This link to an old thread has previously been posted in this thread:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg11232.html

Thank you, I had mis-remembered that it was in the data sheet, not the FAQ.


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Chris Radek]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 02:04:54PM -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
> 
> > This is why the MOSChip data sheet say not to use EPP mode...
> 
> Do you happen to remember where you saw it? I looked up the datasheet:
> http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/96/96718_1.pdf
> and I didn't find any EPP-related errata. Perhaps there's a separate
> doc listing the errata?

This link to an old thread has previously been posted in this thread:

http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg11232.html


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> This is why the MOSChip data sheet say not to use EPP mode...

Do you happen to remember where you saw it? I looked up the datasheet:
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/96/96718_1.pdf
and I didn't find any EPP-related errata. Perhaps there's a separate
doc listing the errata?

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011, Kirk Wallace wrote:

> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 09:47:57 -0800
> From: Kirk Wallace 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
> 
> On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 11:18 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
>> Mark Wendt wrote:
>>> Really makes one wonder how any of this stuff works at all.  You gotta
>>> love it.  A standard with no real standards...  ;-)
>>>
>> Yes, completely appalling, and I have to keep hopping to make my boards
>> work with a wide variety of par port chips.  What a nightmare!  I think
>> I finally have all of my boards set up so that if they don't work with
>> any particular parallel port, I can pretty honestly say "It's not MY
>> fault!"  It is totally amazing to me that these chips can't even follow
>> the LOOSE standard laid out in those docs, which just kind of show this
>> signal comes before that one.
>>
>> Jon
>
> I'm beginning to think that maybe the most popular chip, maybe Moschip
> 9815, should be considered the standard, then make it work on that. The
> Lava and Siig cards may be better, but the Moschips are easy to find and
> cheap.

The MOSchip 98XX series chips do not implement EPP in any way thats useful, 
not only do they sample read data on the leading edge of the strobe so theres 
no way to control their read timing (all other chips I've seen sample on the 
trailing edge (allowing handshaking to work), they do no even do wrong 
thing consistantly...

This is why the MOSChip data sheet say not to use EPP mode...

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Kirk Wallace]

On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 11:18 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
> Mark Wendt wrote:
> > Really makes one wonder how any of this stuff works at all.  You gotta 
> > love it.  A standard with no real standards...  ;-)
> >   
> Yes, completely appalling, and I have to keep hopping to make my boards 
> work with a wide variety of par port chips.  What a nightmare!  I think 
> I finally have all of my boards set up so that if they don't work with 
> any particular parallel port, I can pretty honestly say "It's not MY 
> fault!"  It is totally amazing to me that these chips can't even follow 
> the LOOSE standard laid out in those docs, which just kind of show this 
> signal comes before that one.
> 
> Jon

I'm beginning to think that maybe the most popular chip, maybe Moschip
9815, should be considered the standard, then make it work on that. The
Lava and Siig cards may be better, but the Moschips are easy to find and
cheap.

BTW, the attached has been fun to look at parallel port registers.
(Caution, can cause harm to your PC if you plug in the wrong address)

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA
/*
 * example.c: very simple example of port I/O (example-2b.c)
 *
 * Based on http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/IO-Port-Programming.html
 *
 * Compile with `gcc -O2 -o example example.c',
 * and run as root with `./example'.
 * ( sudo gcc -O2 -o example-2b example-2b.c )
 */

#include 
#include 
//#include /* My computer didn't io.h in asm */
#include   /* but I found it here */
#include   /* added to stop an "exit not defined" warning */

#define BASEPORT 0xA000  /* This address comes from "lspci -v", change this to match the current location, usually the first and third address on the list */
#define EXTENDED 0xA400  /* usually the second and fourth, this address was from a MOSCHIP MCS9815 */

int main()
{
  /* Get access to the ports */
  if (iopl(3)) {perror("iopl"); exit(1);}
  
  /* Set the data signals (D0-7) of the port to all low (0) */
//  outb(0, BASEPORT);
  
  /* Sleep for a while (100 ms) */
//  usleep(10);
  
  /* Read and display all registers */
  printf("DPR: %d\n", inb(BASEPORT + 0));
  printf("DSR: %d\n", inb(BASEPORT + 1));
  printf("DCR: %d\n", inb(BASEPORT + 2));
  printf("EPPA: %d\n", inb(BASEPORT + 3));
  printf("EPPD: %d\n\n", inb(BASEPORT + 4));

  printf("CFA: %d\n", inb(EXTENDED + 0));
  printf("CFB: %d\n", inb(EXTENDED + 1));
  printf("ECR: %d\n\n", inb(EXTENDED + 2));

//  outb(53, EXTENDED + 2);
//  usleep(1000);
//  printf("ECR: %d\n", inb(EXTENDED + 2));

  /* We don't need the ports anymore */
  if (iopl(0)) {perror("iopl"); exit(1);}

  exit(0);
}

/* end of example-2b.c */

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Jon Elson]

Mark Wendt wrote:
> Really makes one wonder how any of this stuff works at all.  You gotta 
> love it.  A standard with no real standards...  ;-)
>   
Yes, completely appalling, and I have to keep hopping to make my boards 
work with a wide variety of par port chips.  What a nightmare!  I think 
I finally have all of my boards set up so that if they don't work with 
any particular parallel port, I can pretty honestly say "It's not MY 
fault!"  It is totally amazing to me that these chips can't even follow 
the LOOSE standard laid out in those docs, which just kind of show this 
signal comes before that one.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Mark Wendt]

On 01/27/2011 11:57 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> gene heskett wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, January 27, 2011 01:26:18 pm Kirk Wallace did opine:
>>
>>  
>>> This link:
>>> http://www.beyondlogic.org/epp/epp.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Good Grief!  ISWYM by incredibly sloppy.
>>
>>
>>  
> That is not the official document, of course.  But, in fact, there is NO
> timing information in the official spec, just suggested diagrams much
> like shown in the beyondlogic document, and some chips don't even honor
> the sequence of events shown there.  For instance, they show the data
> and WRITE/ signal being set first, then the strobe.  Some chips send the
> strobe first, THEN set the data and WRITE/ signal!  Amazing!
>
> Jon

Really makes one wonder how any of this stuff works at all.  You gotta 
love it.  A standard with no real standards...  ;-)

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Jon Elson]

gene heskett wrote:
> On Thursday, January 27, 2011 01:26:18 pm Kirk Wallace did opine:
>   
>> This link:
>> http://www.beyondlogic.org/epp/epp.htm
>>
>> 
> Good Grief!  ISWYM by incredibly sloppy.
>
>   
That is not the official document, of course.  But, in fact, there is NO 
timing information in the official spec, just suggested diagrams much 
like shown in the beyondlogic document, and some chips don't even honor 
the sequence of events shown there.  For instance, they show the data 
and WRITE/ signal being set first, then the strobe.  Some chips send the 
strobe first, THEN set the data and WRITE/ signal!  Amazing!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Jon Elson]

Kirk Wallace wrote:
> This link:
> http://www.beyondlogic.org/epp/epp.htm 
>
> seems to indicate that one only needs to do a write to the EPP Data or
> Address register to do an EPP transfer. There doesn't seem to means to
> "put" the card into EPP mode. What am I missing?
>
>   
A write of 0x80 to the address 0x402 above the data register (default 0x378)
sets a parallel port with standard register assignment to EPP mode.  
Many chips
do this, but not all follow the standard.
> Bi-directional SPP seems to be the most reliable since the driver has
> access to the entire transfer process. It is slower, but it might be
> fast enough for many applications.
>   
Way slower.  A faster EPP chip can do a complete byte transfer in 400 ns 
to one
of my boards.  Other EPP chips do it in 600 - 800 ns, even the old ISA 
compatible
chips on 1998 Dell motherboards.

Emulating the full EPP handshake requires writing data to the port and 
setting the WRITE/
signal, then asserting DATA_STROBE/, waiting for WAIT, deasserting 
DATA_STROBE/
and waiting for WAIT to go away.  At the least, that's 5 transfers 
between CPU and the parport
chip, so about 2 us, maybe.  You could still control one of my boards 
this way, but the overhead
would be quite a bit more.  If we ever get RTAI running on the Beagle 
Board, the control
of the parallel port will look quite a bit like this.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Jon Elson]

Igor Chudov wrote:
>
> Do you know if the fixes that you mention, also are needed for my encoder
> boards?
>   
The encoder fix is for the ones with the old 5V Spartan chips.  You have 
the ones with
the 3.3V Spartan IIE, so they are fine.  There is also a fix for the DAC 
board, which makes the
diagnostic work on some combinations.  But, I believe that it only helps 
the diagnostic,
not the EMC operation.  Only the diagnostic tries to read back from the 
DAC, EMC
treats it as a write-only device.  And, due to some timing issues, the 
fastest parallel
ports don't allow enough time for the data to settle, so the readback 
gets errors.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Kirk Wallace wrote:

> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:13:46 -0800
> From: Kirk Wallace 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
> 
> On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 10:01 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> ... snip
>> I'll get pictures and more information on my card later today. I'd
>> really like to get it working if I can.
>
> Here is my card that I still haven't gotten to work in EPP:
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/moko_l76.0-1a.jpg
> -- 
> Kirk Wallace
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
> California, USA
>

That is a truly ancient Lava card  (with a Xilinx Spartan 5V FPGA no less)
It may not support EPP. The one I had (Sebastian has now) thats known to work 
well for EPP  I'm pretty sure uses an ASIC...



>
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>

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Kirk Wallace]

On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 10:01 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
... snip
> I'll get pictures and more information on my card later today. I'd
> really like to get it working if I can.

Here is my card that I still haven't gotten to work in EPP:
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/moko_l76.0-1a.jpg 
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, January 27, 2011 01:26:18 pm Kirk Wallace did opine:

> On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 11:15 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
> ... snip
> 
> > Every multi-IO chip has its own way of interpreting the
> > incredibly lax specs of the IEEE-1284 protocol.  Some boards put the
> > data and WRITE/ signal out first, then provide the strobe pulse.  Some
> > put them out at the same time, one I saw actually put out the data and
> > WRITE/ AFTER the strobe!  Well, how much delay do you need to be sure
> > the data and WRITE/ are stable?  Who knows!!  So, all this keeps me
> > hopping whenever a new multi-IO chip comes out.
> 
> This link:
> http://www.beyondlogic.org/epp/epp.htm
> 
Good Grief!  ISWYM by incredibly sloppy.

> seems to indicate that one only needs to do a write to the EPP Data or
> Address register to do an EPP transfer. There doesn't seem to means to
> "put" the card into EPP mode. What am I missing?
> 
I _could_ interpret that data as saying any EPP mode transfer must be 
prefaced by those writes to the EPP data or address registers, and it would 
be ok.  That seems to indicate that it is intrinsically a slower mode 
because of the apparent need to trigger the EPP mode on a per read or per 
write basis. What were they smoking when that spec was written?, I'd like 
to try some of that stuff.
 
> Bi-directional SPP seems to be the most reliable since the driver has
> access to the entire transfer process. It is slower, but it might be
> fast enough for many applications.


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

Kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray.

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Kirk Wallace]

On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 11:15 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
... snip
> Every multi-IO chip has its own way of interpreting the 
> incredibly lax specs of the IEEE-1284 protocol.  Some boards put the 
> data and WRITE/ signal out first, then provide the strobe pulse.  Some 
> put them out at the same time, one I saw actually put out the data and 
> WRITE/ AFTER the strobe!  Well, how much delay do you need to be sure 
> the data and WRITE/ are stable?  Who knows!!  So, all this keeps me 
> hopping whenever a new multi-IO chip comes out.

This link:
http://www.beyondlogic.org/epp/epp.htm 

seems to indicate that one only needs to do a write to the EPP Data or
Address register to do an EPP transfer. There doesn't seem to means to
"put" the card into EPP mode. What am I missing?

Bi-directional SPP seems to be the most reliable since the driver has
access to the entire transfer process. It is slower, but it might be
fast enough for many applications.
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Kirk Wallace]

On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 10:25 -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:
... snip
> Kirk, could you tell us, what was it that did not work in your card? Any
> pitfalls to watch out for?
... snip

Off hand, I recall the problem was EMC2 did not see my Pluto board. The
Pluto has an LED which goes bright on power up, then goes dim, but still
on, after the firmware loads. The LED doesn't go dim and there is
nothing indicating why.

I'll get pictures and more information on my card later today. I'd
really like to get it working if I can.
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Igor Chudov]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> andy pugh wrote:
> > On 26 January 2011 20:56, Igor Chudov  wrote:
> >
> >> The bad news is that the parallel port chipset that is on my new PC's
> >> motherboard, does not want to talk to PPMC when two encoder boards are
> >> installed in PPMC.
> >>
> >
> > Which motherboard?
> >
> > I assume that this is unrelated to the known problem with the Intel
> > D510MO which has been worked-around here?
> >
> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commit;h=c9c7ebfa472dcd1de02ccb6470340a97f15a588e
> >
> >
> Yes, it appears unrelated.  His PC motherboard works with ONE PPMC
> encoder board, but fails with TWO of them.  It has to be some strange
> timing error.  I have verified that two encoder boards work fine on the
> D510MO (after making some fixes to older encoder boards and DAC
> boards.)  Every multi-IO chip has its own way of interpreting the
> incredibly lax specs of the IEEE-1284 protocol.  Some boards put the
> data and WRITE/ signal out first, then provide the strobe pulse.  Some
> put them out at the same time, one I saw actually put out the data and
> WRITE/ AFTER the strobe!  Well, how much delay do you need to be sure
> the data and WRITE/ are stable?  Who knows!!  So, all this keeps me
> hopping whenever a new multi-IO chip comes out.
>
>
>
Jon, I bought two cards, a Lava one and a Startech that is NOT based on a
NetMos chip.

I will try both when I get them.

Do you know if the fixes that you mention, also are needed for my encoder
boards?

i
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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Jon Elson]

andy pugh wrote:
> On 26 January 2011 20:56, Igor Chudov  wrote:
>   
>> The bad news is that the parallel port chipset that is on my new PC's
>> motherboard, does not want to talk to PPMC when two encoder boards are
>> installed in PPMC.
>> 
>
> Which motherboard?
>
> I assume that this is unrelated to the known problem with the Intel
> D510MO which has been worked-around here?
> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commit;h=c9c7ebfa472dcd1de02ccb6470340a97f15a588e
>
>   
Yes, it appears unrelated.  His PC motherboard works with ONE PPMC 
encoder board, but fails with TWO of them.  It has to be some strange 
timing error.  I have verified that two encoder boards work fine on the 
D510MO (after making some fixes to older encoder boards and DAC 
boards.)  Every multi-IO chip has its own way of interpreting the 
incredibly lax specs of the IEEE-1284 protocol.  Some boards put the 
data and WRITE/ signal out first, then provide the strobe pulse.  Some 
put them out at the same time, one I saw actually put out the data and 
WRITE/ AFTER the strobe!  Well, how much delay do you need to be sure 
the data and WRITE/ are stable?  Who knows!!  So, all this keeps me 
hopping whenever a new multi-IO chip comes out.


Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Kirk Wallace wrote:

> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:15:48 -0800
> From: Kirk Wallace 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
> 
> On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 07:02 -0800, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> ... snip
>> I hope so too, It would be good to have a known working, non-obscure EPP PCI
>> card. There may be trouble with the Lava card (MOKO chipset) as Kirk W
>> suggested. AFAICR Sebastian K. did not get it working with our 7I43, but I do
>> know its EPP mode hardware works fine as I verifed the hardware with a DOS
>> loopback test (for days). The Lava card passed the EPP loopback with flying
>> colors, had no troubles with long cables and was fast, so whatever problems
>> Kirk and Sebastian had are Linux or EMC parallel port setup related so should
>> be soluble.
>
> If anyone has some hints on what to look for, I can put some time in on
> getting my Lava card working. It took a far amount of effort to find the
> card, it would be nice to make it work.
>


One interesting thing about the MOKO chipset on the Lava cards is that it 
comes up in EPP  mode (I didn't need to do _any_ 1284 setup to make it work)
It may not be 1284 compatible (no ECP mode) so this may be the Linux issue

> -- 
> Kirk Wallace
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
> California, USA
>
>
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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, January 27, 2011 11:52:51 am Sebastian Kuzminsky did opine:

> On 01/27/2011 08:16 AM, Igor Chudov wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Peter C. Wallace  
wrote:
> >> card. There may be trouble with the Lava card (MOKO chipset) as Kirk
> >> W suggested. AFAICR Sebastian K. did not get it working with our
> >> 7I43, but I do
> >> know its EPP mode hardware works fine as I verifed the hardware with
> >> a DOS loopback test (for days). The Lava card passed the EPP
> >> loopback with flying colors, had no troubles with long cables and
> >> was fast, so whatever problems Kirk and Sebastian had are Linux or
> >> EMC parallel port setup related so should
> >> be soluble.
> > 
> > Well, is there any other card that is known to work?
> 
> Here's my old EPP test data.  This was all on Hardy, maybe things are
> better in Lucid.
> 
> * OXSEMI PCI952: works if you turn off wide mode in the hm2_7i43
>   driver ("loadrt hm2_7i43 epp_wide=0")
> * SUNIX 1888: unreliable, seems sensitive to bad EPP cables
> * LAVA MOKO S1: don't work (but can probably be made to work
> somehow) * NetMos 98xx: don't work
> 
> This one will probably work (though it's pricy!):
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158069
> 
It took a while to find the price, but at $12.99 & ship=$19 that doesn't 
seem pricy.

> It's really lame how parallel port cards with the NetMos 98xx chipset
> are still advertised as supporting EPP...  :-(
> 
> I'll try to take another look at the Lava boards soonish.


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

1 1 was a race-horse, 2 2 was 1 2. When 1 1 1 1 race, 2 2 1 1 2.

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Igor Chudov]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:

> On 01/27/2011 08:16 AM, Igor Chudov wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Peter C. Wallace
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> card. There may be trouble with the Lava card (MOKO chipset) as Kirk W
>>>
>>> suggested. AFAICR Sebastian K. did not get it working with our 7I43, but
>>> I
>>> do
>>> know its EPP mode hardware works fine as I verifed the hardware with a
>>> DOS
>>> loopback test (for days). The Lava card passed the EPP loopback with
>>> flying
>>> colors, had no troubles with long cables and was fast, so whatever
>>> problems
>>> Kirk and Sebastian had are Linux or EMC parallel port setup related so
>>> should
>>> be soluble.
>>>
>> Well, is there any other card that is known to work?
>>
>
> Here's my old EPP test data.  This was all on Hardy, maybe things are
> better in Lucid.
>
>   * OXSEMI PCI952: works if you turn off wide mode in the hm2_7i43
> driver ("loadrt hm2_7i43 epp_wide=0")
>   * SUNIX 1888: unreliable, seems sensitive to bad EPP cables
>   * LAVA MOKO S1: don't work (but can probably be made to work somehow)
>   * NetMos 98xx: don't work
>
> This one will probably work (though it's pricy!):
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158069
>
> It's really lame how parallel port cards with the NetMos 98xx chipset are
> still advertised as supporting EPP...  :-(
>
>
Sebastian, just double checking, how do you know if this card will work?

Thanks

Igor
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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, January 27, 2011 11:41:45 am Peter C. Wallace did opine:

[...]
> > I wonder it there could have been a fix for that applied in the newer
> > 9815 chip?
> 
> All the 98XX series parts share the problem. (the existance of the
> problem is documented in the MOSChip data sheet. Their suggestion is to
> not use EPP mode...)

What are they thinking?

So I may as well look for another card, and the lave cards do sound good.

Thanks, Peter.


-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

If one cannot enjoy reading a book over and over again, there is no use
in reading it at all.
-- Oscar Wilde

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 01/27/2011 08:16 AM, Igor Chudov wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
>> card. There may be trouble with the Lava card (MOKO chipset) as Kirk W
>> suggested. AFAICR Sebastian K. did not get it working with our 7I43, but I
>> do
>> know its EPP mode hardware works fine as I verifed the hardware with a DOS
>> loopback test (for days). The Lava card passed the EPP loopback with flying
>> colors, had no troubles with long cables and was fast, so whatever problems
>> Kirk and Sebastian had are Linux or EMC parallel port setup related so
>> should
>> be soluble.
> Well, is there any other card that is known to work?

Here's my old EPP test data.  This was all on Hardy, maybe things are 
better in Lucid.

* OXSEMI PCI952: works if you turn off wide mode in the hm2_7i43
  driver ("loadrt hm2_7i43 epp_wide=0")
* SUNIX 1888: unreliable, seems sensitive to bad EPP cables
* LAVA MOKO S1: don't work (but can probably be made to work somehow)
* NetMos 98xx: don't work

This one will probably work (though it's pricy!): 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158069

It's really lame how parallel port cards with the NetMos 98xx chipset 
are still advertised as supporting EPP...  :-(

I'll try to take another look at the Lava boards soonish.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Igor Chudov]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kirk Wallace
wrote:

> On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 07:02 -0800, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> ... snip
> > I hope so too, It would be good to have a known working, non-obscure EPP
> PCI
> > card. There may be trouble with the Lava card (MOKO chipset) as Kirk W
> > suggested. AFAICR Sebastian K. did not get it working with our 7I43, but
> I do
> > know its EPP mode hardware works fine as I verifed the hardware with a
> DOS
> > loopback test (for days). The Lava card passed the EPP loopback with
> flying
> > colors, had no troubles with long cables and was fast, so whatever
> problems
> > Kirk and Sebastian had are Linux or EMC parallel port setup related so
> should
> > be soluble.
>
> If anyone has some hints on what to look for, I can put some time in on
> getting my Lava card working. It took a far amount of effort to find the
> card, it would be nice to make it work.
>
>
Kirk, could you tell us, what was it that did not work in your card? Any
pitfalls to watch out for?
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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Igor Chudov]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Igor Chudov wrote:
> > Well, is there any other card that is known to work?
>
> No non-obcure ones I know of. There are a couple of newer chipsets I havent
> tried yet however. The bad thing is that the (non-working EPP mode) MosChip
> 98XX cards out number almost all other cards by more than 10-1, I guess a
> case
> of bad&cheap replacing the good...
>
>
Thanks Peter.

My opinion on this matter is that the world has "taken a turn" a few years
ago, and most everything is moving towards Ethernet based switched
communications. At bandwidth uses that are far below maximum, reliability is
great and latency is acceptable, at low cost.

Many layers (OSI) were written to take care of the nominal unreliability.

While network abuse such as transferring large files can quickly use up any
bandwidth, the solution to that is to use a different subnet and network
adapter (cheap) to talk to the CNC machine, and use the default network
adapter to talk to the rest of the world, transferring files, watching
youtube etc.

i
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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Kirk Wallace]

On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 07:02 -0800, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
... snip
> I hope so too, It would be good to have a known working, non-obscure EPP PCI 
> card. There may be trouble with the Lava card (MOKO chipset) as Kirk W 
> suggested. AFAICR Sebastian K. did not get it working with our 7I43, but I do 
> know its EPP mode hardware works fine as I verifed the hardware with a DOS 
> loopback test (for days). The Lava card passed the EPP loopback with flying 
> colors, had no troubles with long cables and was fast, so whatever problems 
> Kirk and Sebastian had are Linux or EMC parallel port setup related so should 
> be soluble.

If anyone has some hints on what to look for, I can put some time in on
getting my Lava card working. It took a far amount of effort to find the
card, it would be nice to make it work.

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Igor Chudov wrote:

> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:16:04 -0600
> From: Igor Chudov 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
> 
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Igor Chudov wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:47:37 -0600
>>> From: Igor Chudov 
>>> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>>>     
>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" >>
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
>>>
>>> I bought a lava card yesterday, hopefully it will work.
>>>
>>
>> I hope so too, It would be good to have a known working, non-obscure EPP
>> PCI
>> card. There may be trouble with the Lava card (MOKO chipset) as Kirk W
>> suggested. AFAICR Sebastian K. did not get it working with our 7I43, but I
>> do
>> know its EPP mode hardware works fine as I verifed the hardware with a DOS
>> loopback test (for days). The Lava card passed the EPP loopback with flying
>> colors, had no troubles with long cables and was fast, so whatever problems
>> Kirk and Sebastian had are Linux or EMC parallel port setup related so
>> should
>> be soluble.
>>
>>
> Well, is there any other card that is known to work?

No non-obcure ones I know of. There are a couple of newer chipsets I havent 
tried yet however. The bad thing is that the (non-working EPP mode) MosChip 
98XX cards out number almost all other cards by more than 10-1, I guess a case 
of bad&cheap replacing the good...


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>

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Igor Chudov]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Igor Chudov wrote:
>
> > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:47:37 -0600
> > From: Igor Chudov 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  >
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
> >
> > I bought a lava card yesterday, hopefully it will work.
> >
>
> I hope so too, It would be good to have a known working, non-obscure EPP
> PCI
> card. There may be trouble with the Lava card (MOKO chipset) as Kirk W
> suggested. AFAICR Sebastian K. did not get it working with our 7I43, but I
> do
> know its EPP mode hardware works fine as I verifed the hardware with a DOS
> loopback test (for days). The Lava card passed the EPP loopback with flying
> colors, had no troubles with long cables and was fast, so whatever problems
> Kirk and Sebastian had are Linux or EMC parallel port setup related so
> should
> be soluble.
>
>
Well, is there any other card that is known to work?
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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Igor Chudov wrote:

> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:47:37 -0600
> From: Igor Chudov 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
> 
> I bought a lava card yesterday, hopefully it will work.
>

I hope so too, It would be good to have a known working, non-obscure EPP PCI 
card. There may be trouble with the Lava card (MOKO chipset) as Kirk W 
suggested. AFAICR Sebastian K. did not get it working with our 7I43, but I do 
know its EPP mode hardware works fine as I verifed the hardware with a DOS 
loopback test (for days). The Lava card passed the EPP loopback with flying 
colors, had no troubles with long cables and was fast, so whatever problems 
Kirk and Sebastian had are Linux or EMC parallel port setup related so should 
be soluble.


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Igor Chudov]

I bought a lava card yesterday, hopefully it will work.

i

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011, gene heskett wrote:
>
> > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:45:04 -0500
> > From: gene heskett 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
> >
> > On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 09:27:46 pm Peter C. Wallace did opine:
> >
> >> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011, gene heskett wrote:
> >>>> The NetMOS/MOSChip chipsets are known _not_ to support EPP mode
> >>>> properly so will not work with Mesa/Pico/Pluto FPGA cards. They will
> >>>> work fine if you just want more I/O however.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Peter.  Now, to remember that when I do want to use it, that is
> >>> the problem.
> >>>
> >>> What specifically fails?
> >>
> >>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg11230.htm
> >> l
> >
> > This reads amazingly similar to a problem I had with an eprom burner I
> made
> > while at a radio station in NE CA in about '81 or '82, with about $25
> worth
> > of parts, where the chip running the show was a Zilog Z-80.  I was not
> able
> > to get a reliable write through my buffers and at the lines of the eprom
> > socket in time to get a good latch even with FAST parts, so I gave up and
> > called Zilog.  Their response was that they thought ever one knew that
> when
> > the bus cycle started, if /READ wasn't true, then it was going to be a
> > write and that I should enable the buffers at the start of the cycle
> > anytime /READ was high.  That gave me another 100ns or so to get every
> > thing in one sock and worked flawlessly.  But there was no hint in the
> > published docs about such a prediction method.
> >
> > Now, whether such a similar work-around could be cobbled up for that, I
> > have no clue.
> >
> > Besides, the card I have does not have the 9805, but has the 9815,
> > presumably a newer chipset.
> >
> > I wonder it there could have been a fix for that applied in the newer
> 9815
> > chip?
>
>
>
> All the 98XX series parts share the problem. (the existance of the problem
> is
> documented in the MOSChip data sheet. Their suggestion is to not use EPP
> mode...)
>
> >
> > How would one go about checking that?, I assume with a loopback plugged
> in
> > it should be amenable to software checking.  One would have to cobble up
> a
> > parallel loopback, I may have enough of those parts on hand.
> >
> > Thanks Peter.
>
> A loopback for EPP needs at least an inverter for the handshaking...
>
>
> >
> > --
> > Cheers, Gene
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > <http://www.captaincanadacrusades.ca/articles/none-dare-call-it-
> > conspiracy%5B1%5D.pdf>
> > Today, THREE WINOS from DETROIT sold me a framed photo of TAB HUNTER
> > before his MAKEOVER!
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011, gene heskett wrote:

> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:45:04 -0500
> From: gene heskett 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
> 
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 09:27:46 pm Peter C. Wallace did opine:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011, gene heskett wrote:
>>>> The NetMOS/MOSChip chipsets are known _not_ to support EPP mode
>>>> properly so will not work with Mesa/Pico/Pluto FPGA cards. They will
>>>> work fine if you just want more I/O however.
>>>
>>> Thanks Peter.  Now, to remember that when I do want to use it, that is
>>> the problem.
>>>
>>> What specifically fails?
>>
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg11230.htm
>> l
>
> This reads amazingly similar to a problem I had with an eprom burner I made
> while at a radio station in NE CA in about '81 or '82, with about $25 worth
> of parts, where the chip running the show was a Zilog Z-80.  I was not able
> to get a reliable write through my buffers and at the lines of the eprom
> socket in time to get a good latch even with FAST parts, so I gave up and
> called Zilog.  Their response was that they thought ever one knew that when
> the bus cycle started, if /READ wasn't true, then it was going to be a
> write and that I should enable the buffers at the start of the cycle
> anytime /READ was high.  That gave me another 100ns or so to get every
> thing in one sock and worked flawlessly.  But there was no hint in the
> published docs about such a prediction method.
>
> Now, whether such a similar work-around could be cobbled up for that, I
> have no clue.
>
> Besides, the card I have does not have the 9805, but has the 9815,
> presumably a newer chipset.
>
> I wonder it there could have been a fix for that applied in the newer 9815
> chip?



All the 98XX series parts share the problem. (the existance of the problem is 
documented in the MOSChip data sheet. Their suggestion is to not use EPP 
mode...)

>
> How would one go about checking that?, I assume with a loopback plugged in
> it should be amenable to software checking.  One would have to cobble up a
> parallel loopback, I may have enough of those parts on hand.
>
> Thanks Peter.

A loopback for EPP needs at least an inverter for the handshaking...


>
> -- 
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> <http://www.captaincanadacrusades.ca/articles/none-dare-call-it-
> conspiracy%5B1%5D.pdf>
> Today, THREE WINOS from DETROIT sold me a framed photo of TAB HUNTER
> before his MAKEOVER!
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Mark Wendt]

On 01/26/2011 06:33 PM, Igor Chudov wrote:
> ... snip
>> There have been problems with EPP and FPGA cards. It seems only
>> motherboard parallel ports have the proper firmware. There are some PCI
>> cards that will work, but good luck finding one.
>>
>>
>>  
> Thanks. What about this card:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158043
> http://us.startech.com/product/PCI2PECP-2-Port-EPPECP-Parallel-PCI-Card
>   
> Based on: MosChip MCS9815/NM9715
>
Igor,

 That's the one I'm using in my Dell Optiplex control machine at 
home.  I've got my pendant hooked up through that.  However, I'm not 
using an FPGA card, so I can't tell you one way or the other as to 
whether it will work with that setup or not.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[andy pugh]

On 26 January 2011 20:56, Igor Chudov  wrote:
> The bad news is that the parallel port chipset that is on my new PC's
> motherboard, does not want to talk to PPMC when two encoder boards are
> installed in PPMC.

Which motherboard?

I assume that this is unrelated to the known problem with the Intel
D510MO which has been worked-around here?
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commit;h=c9c7ebfa472dcd1de02ccb6470340a97f15a588e

-- 
atp
"Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Kirk Wallace]

On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 19:37 -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:
> Steve, looks VERY nice, thanks. I will try to figure out which one I need
> (low profile or not) and will try to get one ASAP. My slight complication is
> that I have a very small computer case and fitting stuff in it is, shall I
> say, a challenge.

The parallel port problem is only with FPGA boards that use EPP for a
communication link. I have just learned a little more about EPP, EMC2
writes or reads the EPP register on the parallel port card, then the
parallel port card handles the hand shaking signals with the peripheral
from then on. That's why the firmware (the PCI card's local software) on
the parallel port card is important. For SPP, the application's driver
software handles the data transfer by reading and writing and monitoring
the data, control, and status registers, no firmware is involved (?). 

For the EPP/FPGA problem, Lava cards have been recommended, but the one
I got doesn't work. I don't know the model number off hand, I can get it
when I go down to the shop.

If your I/O is not using EPP (for instance hal_parport instead), then
just about any card should do for EMC2 software generated step/dir, PWM,
slow encoder decoding (jog wheel, MPG), and toggling bit pins for
coolant, spindle direction, and such. I tend to use these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166007 

but there are many to choose from that will work as well, or better.
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Jon Elson]

Igor Chudov wrote:
> The bad news is that the parallel port chipset that is on my new PC's
> motherboard, does not want to talk to PPMC when two encoder boards are
> installed in PPMC.
>
> The good news is that this is the problem with the motherboard's parallel
> port chipset, and the proof of it is that my old decrepit Dell PC can talk
> to PPMC with two encoder boards, just fine.
>
>   
Yes, the mess of EPP timing varying wildly from one motherboard to 
another has been
a HUGE pain in the rear, dating to 2002 or so.
> The 4th axis rotary table works pretty well, except it rotates backwards
> instead of forward, but that's a minor, separate story.
>   
Just invert the sign of INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE.
> Since the old Dell PC is falling apart and is just not powerful enough, I
> would like to somehow make my new PC talk to PPMC.
>
> To that end, I thought to install a PCI parallel port card into the new PC.
>
> This, naturally, brings up two questions.
>
> 1) Would you recommend some honestly made, reliable, and preferably low
> profile PCI parallel card?
>   
I use a Siig, but these old ones I have need a Windows 95 program to set 
them to EPP mode.
PCI4008A-based ports also work well.  ITE and NetMOS chips seem to have 
been a problem.
> 2) If I install a second card, how would my PC see it? With a different I/O
> address (not 378?). How do I find out that I/O number?
>   
Generally, use lspci to find the ranges of addresses, then try them.  
Often parport cards have
two address ranges, even if they only have one port brought out.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 09:27:46 pm Peter C. Wallace did opine:

> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011, gene heskett wrote:
> >> The NetMOS/MOSChip chipsets are known _not_ to support EPP mode
> >> properly so will not work with Mesa/Pico/Pluto FPGA cards. They will
> >> work fine if you just want more I/O however.
> > 
> > Thanks Peter.  Now, to remember that when I do want to use it, that is
> > the problem.
> > 
> > What specifically fails?
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg11230.htm
> l

This reads amazingly similar to a problem I had with an eprom burner I made 
while at a radio station in NE CA in about '81 or '82, with about $25 worth 
of parts, where the chip running the show was a Zilog Z-80.  I was not able 
to get a reliable write through my buffers and at the lines of the eprom 
socket in time to get a good latch even with FAST parts, so I gave up and 
called Zilog.  Their response was that they thought ever one knew that when 
the bus cycle started, if /READ wasn't true, then it was going to be a 
write and that I should enable the buffers at the start of the cycle 
anytime /READ was high.  That gave me another 100ns or so to get every 
thing in one sock and worked flawlessly.  But there was no hint in the 
published docs about such a prediction method.

Now, whether such a similar work-around could be cobbled up for that, I 
have no clue.

Besides, the card I have does not have the 9805, but has the 9815, 
presumably a newer chipset.

I wonder it there could have been a fix for that applied in the newer 9815 
chip?

How would one go about checking that?, I assume with a loopback plugged in 
it should be amenable to software checking.  One would have to cobble up a 
parallel loopback, I may have enough of those parts on hand.

Thanks Peter.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

Today, THREE WINOS from DETROIT sold me a framed photo of TAB HUNTER
before his MAKEOVER!

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011, gene heskett wrote:
>>
>> The NetMOS/MOSChip chipsets are known _not_ to support EPP mode properly
>> so will not work with Mesa/Pico/Pluto FPGA cards. They will work fine
>> if you just want more I/O however.
>>
> Thanks Peter.  Now, to remember that when I do want to use it, that is the
> problem.
>
> What specifically fails?

http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg11230.html

> -- 
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>  conspiracy%5B1%5D.pdf>
> A beer delayed is a beer denied.
>
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>

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 09:18:25 pm Steve Blackmore did opine:

> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 18:48:14 -0600, you wrote:
> >Do you happen to know a PCI card that you can recommend?
> 
> Hi Igor
> 
> Lava cards don't use netmos chipsets, they do EPP properly and seem to
> be ultra reliable in my experience.
> 
> See
> 
> http://www.lavalink.com/dev/index.php?id=69
> 
> 
> Steve Blackmore
> --

Looks to be a decent card, in the mid $40's range for the dual port 
version, and $30 for a single.  Thanks for the link Steve.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

"Paul Lynde to block..."
-- a contestant on "Hollywood Squares"

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 09:11:03 pm Peter C. Wallace did opine:

> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011, Igor Chudov wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 17:33:35 -0600
> > From: Igor Chudov 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second
> > (PCI) parallel port card
> > 
> > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Kirk Wallace
> > 
> > wrote:
> >> On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 14:56 -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:
> >> ... snip
> >> 
> >>> 1) Would you recommend some honestly made, reliable, and preferably
> >>> low profile PCI parallel card?
> >>> 
> >>> 2) If I install a second card, how would my PC see it? With a
> >>> different
> >> 
> >> I/O
> >> 
> >>> address (not 378?). How do I find out that I/O number?
> >> 
> >> ... snip
> >> 
> >> There have been problems with EPP and FPGA cards. It seems only
> >> motherboard parallel ports have the proper firmware. There are some
> >> PCI cards that will work, but good luck finding one.
> > 
> > Thanks. What about this card:
> > 
> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158043
> > http://us.startech.com/product/PCI2PECP-2-Port-EPPECP-Parallel-PCI-Car
> > d
> > <http://us.startech.com/product/PCI2PECP-2-Port-EPPECP-Parallel-PCI-C
> > ard> Based on: MosChip MCS9815/NM9715
> 
> The NetMOS/MOSChip chipsets are known _not_ to support EPP mode properly
> so will not work with Mesa/Pico/Pluto FPGA cards. They will work fine
> if you just want more I/O however.
> 
Thanks Peter.  Now, to remember that when I do want to use it, that is the 
problem.

What specifically fails?
> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
> 
> 
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-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
<http://www.captaincanadacrusades.ca/articles/none-dare-call-it-
conspiracy%5B1%5D.pdf>
A beer delayed is a beer denied.

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Igor Chudov]

Steve, looks VERY nice, thanks. I will try to figure out which one I need
(low profile or not) and will try to get one ASAP. My slight complication is
that I have a very small computer case and fitting stuff in it is, shall I
say, a challenge.

i

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Steve Blackmore  wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 18:48:14 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
> >Do you happen to know a PCI card that you can recommend?
>
> Hi Igor
>
> Lava cards don't use netmos chipsets, they do EPP properly and seem to
> be ultra reliable in my experience.
>
> See
>
> http://www.lavalink.com/dev/index.php?id=69
>
>
> Steve Blackmore
> --
>
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Steve Blackmore]

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 18:48:14 -0600, you wrote:


>Do you happen to know a PCI card that you can recommend?

Hi Igor

Lava cards don't use netmos chipsets, they do EPP properly and seem to
be ultra reliable in my experience.

See

http://www.lavalink.com/dev/index.php?id=69


Steve Blackmore
--

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Igor Chudov]

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011, Igor Chudov wrote:
>
> > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 17:33:35 -0600
> > From: Igor Chudov 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  >
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Kirk Wallace
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 14:56 -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:
> >> ... snip
> >>> 1) Would you recommend some honestly made, reliable, and preferably low
> >>> profile PCI parallel card?
> >>>
> >>> 2) If I install a second card, how would my PC see it? With a different
> >> I/O
> >>> address (not 378?). How do I find out that I/O number?
> >> ... snip
> >>
> >> There have been problems with EPP and FPGA cards. It seems only
> >> motherboard parallel ports have the proper firmware. There are some PCI
> >> cards that will work, but good luck finding one.
> >>
> >>
> > Thanks. What about this card:
> >
> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158043
> > http://us.startech.com/product/PCI2PECP-2-Port-EPPECP-Parallel-PCI-Card
> > <http://us.startech.com/product/PCI2PECP-2-Port-EPPECP-Parallel-PCI-Card
> >
> > Based on: MosChip MCS9815/NM9715
> >
>
> The NetMOS/MOSChip chipsets are known _not_ to support EPP mode properly so
> will not work with Mesa/Pico/Pluto FPGA cards. They will work fine if you
> just
> want more I/O however.
>


Peter, you sound like you have some direct experience with this.

I need to talk to six encoders (X, Y, Z, spindle, 4th/rotary axis, and
hopefully I will put a servo motor on the knee).

So it is not just slow I/O.

Do you happen to know a PCI card that you can recommend?

Thank you!

Igor
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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 06:28:34 pm Igor Chudov did opine:

> The bad news is that the parallel port chipset that is on my new PC's
> motherboard, does not want to talk to PPMC when two encoder boards are
> installed in PPMC.
> 
> The good news is that this is the problem with the motherboard's
> parallel port chipset, and the proof of it is that my old decrepit Dell
> PC can talk to PPMC with two encoder boards, just fine.
> 
> Jon provided awesome support during this ordeal. Thanks to Jon.
> 
> The 4th axis rotary table works pretty well, except it rotates backwards
> instead of forward, but that's a minor, separate story.
> 
> Since the old Dell PC is falling apart and is just not powerful enough,
> I would like to somehow make my new PC talk to PPMC.
> 
> To that end, I thought to install a PCI parallel port card into the new
> PC.
> 
> This, naturally, brings up two questions.
> 
> 1) Would you recommend some honestly made, reliable, and preferably low
> profile PCI parallel card?
> 
> 2) If I install a second card, how would my PC see it? With a different
> I/O address (not 378?). How do I find out that I/O number?
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
I believe the card I am using is a Rosewell.  It was about a $20 bill mail 
order.  As for finding it, here is the lspci -vv output, snipped down to 
that card:

00:0a.0 Communication controller: NetMos Technology PCI 9815 Multi-I/O 
Controller (rev 01)
Subsystem: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic Device 0020
Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster- SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- 
Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- 
SERR- http://www.captaincanadacrusades.ca/articles/none-dare-call-it-
conspiracy%5B1%5D.pdf>
Isn't this my STOP?!

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011, Igor Chudov wrote:

> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 17:33:35 -0600
> From: Igor Chudov 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card
> 
> On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Kirk Wallace
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 14:56 -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:
>> ... snip
>>> 1) Would you recommend some honestly made, reliable, and preferably low
>>> profile PCI parallel card?
>>>
>>> 2) If I install a second card, how would my PC see it? With a different
>> I/O
>>> address (not 378?). How do I find out that I/O number?
>> ... snip
>>
>> There have been problems with EPP and FPGA cards. It seems only
>> motherboard parallel ports have the proper firmware. There are some PCI
>> cards that will work, but good luck finding one.
>>
>>
> Thanks. What about this card:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158043
> http://us.startech.com/product/PCI2PECP-2-Port-EPPECP-Parallel-PCI-Card
> <http://us.startech.com/product/PCI2PECP-2-Port-EPPECP-Parallel-PCI-Card>
> Based on: MosChip MCS9815/NM9715
>

The NetMOS/MOSChip chipsets are known _not_ to support EPP mode properly so 
will not work with Mesa/Pico/Pluto FPGA cards. They will work fine if you just 
want more I/O however.


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Igor Chudov]

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Kirk Wallace
wrote:

> On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 14:56 -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:
> ... snip
> > 1) Would you recommend some honestly made, reliable, and preferably low
> > profile PCI parallel card?
> >
> > 2) If I install a second card, how would my PC see it? With a different
> I/O
> > address (not 378?). How do I find out that I/O number?
> ... snip
>
> There have been problems with EPP and FPGA cards. It seems only
> motherboard parallel ports have the proper firmware. There are some PCI
> cards that will work, but good luck finding one.
>
>
Thanks. What about this card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158043
http://us.startech.com/product/PCI2PECP-2-Port-EPPECP-Parallel-PCI-Card
 
Based on: MosChip MCS9815/NM9715


 To find the parallel port address, use:
> "lspci -v"
>
> which should return something similar to:
> "...
> 00:0f.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VIA VT6420 SATA RAID
> Controller (rev 80)
>Subsystem: Elitegroup Computer Systems Unknown device 1898
>Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 18
>I/O ports at 9400 [size=8]
>I/O ports at 9800 [size=4]
>I/O ports at 9c00 [size=8]
>I/O ports at a000 [size=4]
>I/O ports at a400 [size=16]
>I/O ports at a800 [size=256]
>Capabilities: 
> ..."
>
> except the description should indicate a parallel port. The parallel
> port address will be one or two of the "I/O ports at" numbers. You may
> have to try different numbers until it works. See:
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?NetMos
>
> --
> Kirk Wallace
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
> California, USA
>
>
>
> --
> Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
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> price-free!
> Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
> February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
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> ___
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>
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Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires 
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Re: [Emc-users] Second (PCI) parallel port card

[Kirk Wallace]

On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 14:56 -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:
... snip
> 1) Would you recommend some honestly made, reliable, and preferably low
> profile PCI parallel card?
> 
> 2) If I install a second card, how would my PC see it? With a different I/O
> address (not 378?). How do I find out that I/O number?
... snip

There have been problems with EPP and FPGA cards. It seems only
motherboard parallel ports have the proper firmware. There are some PCI
cards that will work, but good luck finding one.

To find the parallel port address, use:
"lspci -v"

which should return something similar to:
"...
00:0f.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VIA VT6420 SATA RAID
Controller (rev 80)
Subsystem: Elitegroup Computer Systems Unknown device 1898
Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 18
I/O ports at 9400 [size=8]
I/O ports at 9800 [size=4]
I/O ports at 9c00 [size=8]
I/O ports at a000 [size=4]
I/O ports at a400 [size=16]
I/O ports at a800 [size=256]
Capabilities: 
..."

except the description should indicate a parallel port. The parallel
port address will be one or two of the "I/O ports at" numbers. You may
have to try different numbers until it works. See:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?NetMos 

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


--
Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires 
February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! 
http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users