Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?
Hi Bob, Build you own electric vehicle by Bob Brant. It is available at Amazon and on Kindle. It gives excellent pointers, even if some of the info is dated. The beauty of electric vehicles is that typically, each of the basic components can be changed or updated with little regard to the others (motor, controller, batteries). Yes, it is wise to do your best to match these up for maximum benefit, but many of us have gone against that wisdom and done surprisingly well. It is a fledgling enterprise after all and it seems that no one knows all. -Tom On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Bobby Keeland via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost > as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of > my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could > also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone > recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE > vehicle to EV? > > Bob Keeland > Forest Dynamics > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/af5d4ec8/attachment.htm > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/4d9d254e/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v
On 12 Jan 2016 at 20:22, dovepa via EV wrote: > Point was I don't need Lee's opinion or yours or anyone else's this sort of > information is provided by the manufacturer. Oh, yes you do. ;-) I'm not going to name names, but my own experience shows that there's at least one battery manufacturer whose instructions, if followed to the letter, will murder their batteries by overcharging them. I personally have killed more lead batteries with overcharging than with undercharging. Your mileage may vary. Lee and Bill are engineers. They both have a LOT of years of experience with lead batteries in EVs. They both know what they're talking about. Not to be too strident about it, but if you disregard their advice, well, you deserve the results you get. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?
On Tue Jan 12 18:40:12 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said: >In the near term I am considering the conversion of >my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could >also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone >recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE >vehicle to EV? I don't know of any books with even semi-recent information. I got most of my info from this list, and doing trial and error. -- Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?
I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE vehicle to EV? Bob Keeland Forest Dynamics -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/af5d4ec8/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?
On Tue Jan 12 21:46:18 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said: >One, start with goals. How far do you want to be able to drive? What >kind of acceleration? How steep a hill? Do you need to tow anything? >Or carry a heavy load uphill? Very definitely! >Then do the math. There are various acceleration and load tools on the >Internet that can help you determine how much torque or KW you need to >meet your goals. Knowing how many KW your goals require, you can >multiply that by range to size your battery. And so on. My experience with the various estimating tools was that they just are not suited for larger vehicles. They were all WAY WAY off with my truck. -- Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?
With the risk of sticking my foot in my mouth, as I have not built my own EV, I'd like to make a few suggestions. One, start with goals. How far do you want to be able to drive? What kind of acceleration? How steep a hill? Do you need to tow anything? Or carry a heavy load uphill? And lesser things: do you need a lot of cabin heat? defrost? Then do the math. There are various acceleration and load tools on the Internet that can help you determine how much torque or KW you need to meet your goals. Knowing how many KW your goals require, you can multiply that by range to size your battery. And so on. With all these numbers you can start looking at components. The priciest ones are going to be the battery, the motor, and the controller or inverter. If these are way out of price range or, for example, you the battery will be too heavy for the truck, you may need to compromise on some of your goals. You might decide to keep the clutch and gear box rather than replace them with a single gear reduction. A little less efficient but potentially a lot cheaper. Hopefully, you'll be able to iterate through this process, reducing or compromising your goals, until you reach something that is cost justifiable. Otherwise you would just go buy the Tesla :) I can't begin to enumerate all the small components you will need - from charge port to an electric pump for the brakes to dashboard meters. Books, the EV album, and other people will be your resources. Good luck ! Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Thos True via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Bobby Keeland" <keela...@gmail.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: 12-Jan-16 9:17:42 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev? Hi Bob, Build you own electric vehicle by Bob Brant. It is available at Amazon and on Kindle. It gives excellent pointers, even if some of the info is dated. The beauty of electric vehicles is that typically, each of the basic components can be changed or updated with little regard to the others (motor, controller, batteries). Yes, it is wise to do your best to match these up for maximum benefit, but many of us have gone against that wisdom and done surprisingly well. It is a fledgling enterprise after all and it seems that no one knows all. -Tom On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Bobby Keeland via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE vehicle to EV? Bob Keeland Forest Dynamics -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: < http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/af5d4ec8/attachment.htm > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/4d9d254e/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v
Besides Bill, I can read too! Take a look at table 3. Point was I don't need Lee's opinion or yours or anyone else's this sort of information is provided by the manufacturer. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 6:17 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v You say 2.15 volts per cell. That is 2.15 x 6 = 12.9 volts for a "12 volt" lead acid battery. That is the _incorrect_ voltage for charging a 12 volt battery. The battery would never reach 100% charge at that voltage. You would want to charge to at least the "float" voltage of 13.2 volts. The battery would eventually reach full charge at the float voltage. It might take a long time, but it would get there. According to the Trojan battery reference (that _you_ gave,) you have a choice of a float voltage of 13.2 volts, or a "daily charge" of 14.8 volts, or an "equalize charge" of 15.5 volts. The Trojan page you referenced is specific to _flooded_ lead acid batteries however, rather than the sealed lead acid battery, either AGM or perhaps "Gell Cell", that the fellow was originally asking advice about. If that is indeed the fact (likely not, as a "gell cell" is typically really a VRLA AGM these days,) then something between 13.2 to 14.4 would be the appropriate voltage, just as Lee Hart's battery page says. A real gell cell would foam the gelled electrolyte if you gave it an "equalize" charge listed on the Trojan battery page, and that would be the end of it. Bill Dube' On 1/12/2016 11:49 AM, dovepa via EV wrote: > There are things you can do to maximize life of the cells and the >manufactures have recommended voltage and current settings but they will >charge all the way up with anything above 2.15 volts. > I prefer to go to manufactures recommendations myself. > http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/ > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message > From: Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 12:35 PM > (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: > Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v > Paul, > > It is not so simple. > As David suggests, it is best to read Lee Hart's battery charging basics: > http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html > > There is a _lot_ more to charging batteries than > you might think. Even Lee's "brief" tutorial > leaves quite a few of the subtleties out. > > Bill D. > > At 10:37 AM 1/12/2016, you wrote: >> Lead acid cell voltage is 2.15 volts. 6 cells >> make 12.9 volts. Anything above 12.9 will charge >> it fully. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE >> smartphone Original message >> From: Robert Bruninga via EV >> <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 9:07 >> AM (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion >> List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: [EVDL] Lead >> battery charging to 13.2v I put a gel cell on a >> benchtop power supply and it charged overnight >> to zero current at about 13.2v. So I upped it >> to 13.8 to finish the charge and it basically >> would not take cany more current. I always >> thought the 13.8 and even 14v was the float >> voltage and you had to at least get to that >> voltage. I also remember that something like >> 13.2 is the highest one should go to provent any >> gassing Anyway, if one leaves a battery >> overnight on 13.2v and it tapers to 0, is it >> âfullâ. If so, what is 13.8 all >> aboiut. Bob -- next part >> -- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/c3d15243/attachment.htm> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: >> http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> -- next part -- An HTML >> attachment was scrubbed... URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/95524f10/attachment.htm> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: >> http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://group
Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v
benchtop power supply and it charged overnight to zero current at about 13.2v. So I upped it to 13.8 to finish the charge and it basically would not take cany more current. I always thought the 13.8 and even 14v was the float voltage and you had to at least get to that voltage. I also remember that something like 13.2 is the highest one should go to provent any gassing Anyway, if one leaves a battery overnight on 13.2v and it tapers to 0, is it âfullâ. If so, what is 13.8 all aboiut. Bob -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/c3d15243/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car
On 12 Jan 2016 at 11:46, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > And grumpy ol'd grudge laiden people unwilling to try anything new just > hold us all back. I guess I wasn't entirely clear here. It's not just that I'm holding a grudge. It's that GM is doing things that I consider unethical and will not support. Read the link I provided. http://consumerist.com/2015/05/20/gm-that-car-you-bought-were-really-the- ones-who-own-it/ http://v.gd/Qf35dR As it turns out, GM partly lost this round. The US Copyright Office ruled against their attempt to use the law to keep us out of their cars' computers. But as I read it, the ruling is narrow, and leaves them room to maneuver. The ruling also probably wouldn't have happened if not for the VW emissions scandal. GM is just jumping on a bandwagon here. For example, the big media companies love downloads because, unlike physical books, CDs, and DVDs, you don't actually own them and you can't resell them. Your money buys only the right to use them within the limits the company dictates. GM wants this too. They're arguing, in effect, that they should be able to to sell you the RIGHT TO USE their vehicles, rather than selling you the actual vehicles. Though they may have lost this round, I guarantee they'll keep fighting until they get their way. But they're not going to fight that legal battle with my money. THAT'S the main reason I'm never buying a GM car. It's the same reason that I no longer buy those outstanding LRR tires that Nokian makes. I bought them almost exclusively for 15 years. Then they transferred their manufacturing to Russia. And I'll be dammed if I'm going to voluntarily give Putin and Company my money. See ya! I still have my personal ethics, and those ethics say "don't give your money to people who do bad stuff." BTW, while I am getting kind of old, and sometimes hold a grudge, I'm definitely not unwilling to try anything new. On 12 Jan 2016 at 10:35, Chris Tromley via EV wrote: > It's important to remember that corporations aren't people. They're > > more like sharks looking for food. You can't train a shark, but you > can have some control over it if you control its food supply. > If it goes somewhere that is beneficial, like manufacturing EVs, make > sure there's a good supply of food for it there. I think that used to work. It may still work with small companies and those really sensitive to their images. I'm not so sure it makes much difference with big corporations, though. They have so much PR, advertising, and political muscle that they can almost manufacture demand at will. In this case, I doubt that our demand will keep GM's EVs available. In 2014, GM sold 18,805 Volts. The same year, they sold 529,755 Silverados - TWENTY-EIGHT (28) times as many. GM's total sales across all models and brands were 2,935,008. Volt sales were just 0.6% of this total. And depending on which source you believe, either GM lost $50k per car, or made almost no profit on each one. On GM's profit map, the Volt is a tiny dot on a tiny dot with an arrow saying "You are here." Does anyone here really think that GM would continue offering the Volt and Bolt if California's zev requirements went away? I assure you, they aren't building and selling them because it's "the right thing to do." David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?
Bob Brant's book does a good job of helping work through the power and energy requirements and lining them up with EV components. It really does pay to get a system and parts that meet your requirements, but without too much extra. Otherwise your conversion could cost as much as a Tesla. The other book I have is called Convert It by Mike Brown. It is somewhat dated, but does a good job of covering some of the"nuts and bolts" of the conversion and wiring. Finally, I think good value can be had from using parts from production EVs such as Leaf. Batteries, motors, and controllers are all available pretty cheap. Of course, getting them to work can be a challenge. Mike On January 12, 2016 10:46:18 PM MST, Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: >With the risk of sticking my foot in my mouth, as I have not built my >own EV, I'd like to make a few suggestions. > >One, start with goals. How far do you want to be able to drive? What >kind of acceleration? How steep a hill? Do you need to tow anything? > >Or carry a heavy load uphill? > >And lesser things: do you need a lot of cabin heat? defrost? > >Then do the math. There are various acceleration and load tools on the > >Internet that can help you determine how much torque or KW you need to >meet your goals. Knowing how many KW your goals require, you can >multiply that by range to size your battery. And so on. > >With all these numbers you can start looking at components. The >priciest ones are going to be the battery, the motor, and the >controller >or inverter. If these are way out of price range or, for example, you >the battery will be too heavy for the truck, you may need to compromise > >on some of your goals. You might decide to keep the clutch and gear >box >rather than replace them with a single gear reduction. A little less >efficient but potentially a lot cheaper. > >Hopefully, you'll be able to iterate through this process, reducing or >compromising your goals, until you reach something that is cost >justifiable. Otherwise you would just go buy the Tesla :) I can't >begin to enumerate all the small components you will need - from charge > >port to an electric pump for the brakes to dashboard meters. Books, the > >EV album, and other people will be your resources. > >Good luck ! > >Peri > > >-- Original Message -- >From: "Thos True via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> >To: "Bobby Keeland" <keela...@gmail.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion >List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> >Sent: 12-Jan-16 9:17:42 PM >Subject: Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev? > >>Hi Bob, >> >>Build you own electric vehicle by Bob Brant. It is available at Amazon > >>and >>on Kindle. It gives excellent pointers, even if some of the info is >>dated. >>The beauty of electric vehicles is that typically, each of the basic >>components can be changed or updated with little regard to the others >>(motor, controller, batteries). Yes, it is wise to do your best to >>match >>these up for maximum benefit, but many of us have gone against that >>wisdom >>and done surprisingly well. It is a fledgling enterprise after all and > >>it >>seems that no one knows all. >> >>-Tom >> >>On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Bobby Keeland via EV >><ev@lists.evdl.org> >>wrote: >> >>> I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they >don't >>>cost >>> as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the >>>conversion of >>> my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I >>>could >>> also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can >anyone >>> recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting >an >>>ICE >>> vehicle to EV? >>> >>> Bob Keeland >>> Forest Dynamics >>> -- next part -- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: < >>> >>>http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/af5d4ec8/attachment.htm >>> > >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the >gla
[EVDL] GM EV1 Review, Or At Least What I Can Remember After 20 Years
http://jalopnik.com/a-review-of-the-gm-ev1-or-at-least-what-i-can-remember-1751903085 A Review Of The GM EV1, Or At Least What I Can Remember After 20 Years [20160108] Jason Torchinsky [images http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--3Mz9AkJw--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/c08ovr1vhlbhihqpizpm.jpg GM EV1 http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--afbpeanO--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/t1fdn1vp5bi94fxhymth.jpg (xray view) http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--S32kpFXl--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/dheloetmi6aby6lmyosy.jpg (console) http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--9I-QiyxX--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/dssop32bxxszpaiawjlz.jpg (front) http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--3qouBQ3---/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/btfmxkwzwyvc5pe40l4u.jpg (Electaurus on Simpsons) http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--4OftYUDI--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/ftcnsdxqgahymnelrisi.jpg (EV1 purposely crushed and stacked for shreding into unusable bits) ] Once, long ago, I was like many of you: a young, beautiful gadabout, ready to drink lustily from the frothing cup of life. One particular quaff of that cup is significant, because it involves a short drive in the shining but infamously doomed General Motors EV1, and 2016 will mark that car’s 20th anniversary. In honor of this, I’m going to try and write a hazy, barely-remembered review. I arrived in Los Angeles in 1997, full of rich, juicy hopes and dreams that LA would soon masticate into a fine moist paste. The date and location is significant, because it put me in the right time and place to be one of the comparatively few people to actually drive an EV1. I was always interested in cars, cars of all kinds, so when I learned that the EV1 existed, and even better existed near me, I knew I had to try one out. (Interestingly, I learned about the EV1 through a type of website that was much like what we have today, but it took about a month to load a new edition, and was displayed on something that looked sort of like an iPad, but was floppy, and composed of many, very thin sheets, bound together with staples or some similar unholy magic.) The EV1 was pretty big news. Electric cars that weren’t designed to haul plaid pants, golf clubs, and 180 pounds of old man meat hadn’t really been seen in any numbers on American roads for decades. People were excited by the idea of it, and while gas was still relatively cheap, it wasn’t that cheap, and the eco/green movement was really gaining momentum and popular support (remember Captain Planet and all that crap?) in the ‘90s. Plus, and this is also hard to imagine today, but Saturn, the GM division whose dealership network was tasked with leasing the EV1, wasn’t seen as quite the sad joke we see it today. Back in the ‘90s, it was still seen as at least a somewhat competitive and forward-thinking division of GM. Even by many of the people who drove their cars! I guess those dent-resistant body panels carried more status back then. Remember, the ‘90s were a period of unrestrained, rogue shopping carts. The EV1 even resembled the Saturns of the period, and even though it was branded as a GM, some of its lustre rubbed off on the rest of the Saturn line. I actually remember the test drive better than I realized, now that I think about it. I remember driving in my Beetle to a Saturn dealer in, I think, downtown LA. As usual, whenever I pulled up at a dealer in my old Bug, half a dozen sales people would bolt out to me, promising that they could “put me” in something they had on the lot that day. I was never interested, but this time I was at least curious. The salesguy was actually quite pleased to let me take a test drive in the EV1, even though I made it clear I was mostly just curious about the car and technology. “You’re so young, so alive!” he gushed. “These thick, raven locks,” he added, running his hands through my hair. “It’s hard to believe in less than 20 years a ridiculous-looking, Oreo-sized bald spot will soon be here. Also, look how thin you are.” Maybe that’s not quite how it went. 1997 was a long time ago, remember. What I do remember is that the car was impressively futuristic looking and feeling. It was smaller than you’d expect, and yet oddly longer, mostly thanks to the pronounced teardrop shape, with its long, tapering tail. I remember asking about the rear wheel skirts, and being told they added a whole extra mile of range to the car. Everything was flush and sleek feeling, almost aeronautic. It all felt significantly better built than the other GM products I was familiar with, which isn’t shocking. Inside, the EV1 didn’t disappoint, having exactly the kind of spaceship-feel that you wanted a car like this to have. At the time I remember being impressed, but with the benefit of hindsight (which is, after all, always 6'4" or something) I realize now what a shitshow that interior really was.
[EVDL] EVLN: Top 5 UK EVs you can lease for under £250mo
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/car-leasing-news/electric-vehicles-lease-under-250/ Top five electric vehicles you can lease for under £250 a month [20160106] John Simpson [images http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/cms-images/BMW-i3-London.jpg BMW i3 London http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/cms-images/Nissan-Leaf-MY2016-grey.jpg Nissan Leaf MY2016 grey http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/cms-images/Kia-SOUL-EV-095.jpg Kia SOUL EV 095 http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/cms-images/VW-e-up-white-tracking-.jpg VW e-up white tracking http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/cms-images/673591.jpg Citroen C-Zero red (iMiev) ] Electric vehicles remain one of the most curious innovations on the automotive scene, but zero-emission motoring has quickly become a credible option for every motorist, and super affordable leasing rates have certainly played a part in making EVs more appealing. Benefits include no road tax, no congestion charge, no emissions (cleaner air for everyone), no more fuel forecourts, a near-silent drive, and free recharging facilities and free parking in some areas. The Government will even give you £5,000 to go electric, as part of the recently renewed plug-in car grant. EVs have become shockingly affordable as the number of all-electric models available balloons at an exciting rate; they’re now so reasonably priced that you can lease one for less than £250 a month; we’re rounded up just five of the best… BMW i3 5dr Auto Profile:6+47Mileage:8k Miles p/a £256.82 Per Month, EXC VAT Business Users Only View Details Business Leasing Deal by: John Clark BMW Aberdeen BMW spared no expense in working out its first ever electric vehicle, splashing an estimated £1.37bn on the i3’s development. The result: one of the most eye-catching cars on the road. Take away the propeller badge and there’s only the renowned kidney grille alluding to the i3’s Bavarian roots. The shape, the size, the whole ethos of the car is a far-cry from anything BMW had done before but like every BMW before it, the i3 is rear wheel drive. Fully charged, the i3 can travel between 80 and 100 miles, depending on road conditions and driver behaviour. The journey continues in the Range Extender model though (also available for under £250 a month), which sparks a 650cc petrol engine into life once electric power is used, driving up to 186 miles. Regenerative braking had featured on many electric and hybrid vehicles before but the i3 makes heavy use of the technique, with a very on-off go-kart feel. Lift the accelerator and you notice the car brake immediately; it’s a peculiar sensation initially but it’s essentially recapturing battery power that would otherwise wasted. Nissan Leaf The world’s first mass-produced electric vehicle remains the world’s best-selling electric vehicle, with more than 9,300 currently on UK roads. It set the standard for modern electric vehicles and two rounds of updates have kept the Leaf ahead of the competition, gifting it the longest electric range out of all the cars in this list (155 miles). Revisions have made it more enjoyable and quieter car to drive, and the futuristic interior makes the Leaf a special place to be. The United Nations is a fan too, using the Leaf to transport more than 20,000 U.N. participants from 195 countries during December’s COP21 climate conference in Paris. Leasing is the only way to go electric Kia Soul EV Few expected a battery-powered Soul to be this good. The second-generation addressed plenty of what Kia got wrong with the original Soul [review] but fitting the divisive crossover SUV with an electric powertrain turned out to be a masterstroke. It edged out the Leaf in a recent head-to-head and was labelled one of the best and most desirable new cars available. If you’re a fan of its right-angled exterior, then you need the Soul EV in your life. Want to go electric but want a petrol back-up? Check out our top five plug-in hybrids… Volkswagen e-up! The dinky e-up! sparked a raft of EVs from VW, with an all-electric Golf and GTE plug-in hybrid quickly following, but this is the only one you can pick up for less than £250 a month. Some would argue it is the perfect city car. Its dinky dimensions and tiny turning circle mean it can squeeze into anything resembling a parking space and snake through tight streets with minimum bother. Four seats, a 250-litre boot, and a 93 mile range make it an effective tool for urban motorists. Citroen C-Zero It’s the smallest Citroen currently available as well as the smallest EV on our list but who said size matters? With four seats, five doors, and strong silent acceleration, the C-Zero shares plenty with VW’s e-up! but as the Citroen has been around for a bit longer, it is about £80 cheaper to lease every month. Well worth a look for inner-city motorists keen to make the electric switch. Peugeot’s i-On is virtually identical and can also be picked up for well under £250 a month (£128 business / £167
[EVDL] EVLN: OR-based Pangea 16-passenger e-Bus for congested-streets.ph
http://www.columbian.com/news/2016/jan/07/pangea-part-of-electric-vehicle-research-project/
Pangea part of electric vehicle research project
January 7, 2016 Gordon Oliver
[images
http://www.columbian.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/0108_biz_pangea_025-770x0-c-default.jpg
David Boyd, director of design and development for Pangea Motors drives a
prototype electric vehicle in downtown Vancouver in 2013. Pangea and GET are
developing a vehicle to replace older gas powered vehicles in the
Philippines. (The Columbian files)
http://www.columbian.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/0108_biz_Pangea_bus_tour-770x0-c-default.jpg
Dana Montler works on retrofitting a "world bus" at Pangea Motors in
Vancouver in 2015. (Ariane Kunze/The Columbian)
http://www.columbian.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/0108_biz_Pangea_bus_tour.2-770x0-c-default.jpg
Vancouver public officials and community members took a ride around downtown
Vancouver in 2015 in Pangea Motor's Comet bus. The 16-passenger electric van
will supply 10,000 vehicles for use on the congested streets of Manila and
will also provide many local jobs. (Ariane Kunze/The Columbian)
]
Vancouver-based bus maker will work with technology incubator
Pangea Motors, the tiny, Vancouver-based electric bus maker with ambitions
to improve public transportation in congested cities, will be part of a
research-and-development project for low-cost electrical vehicle fleets that
will take place at a new Portland technology incubator operated by the
British carmaker Jaguar Land Rover.
This new partnership between the innovation incubator and technology
innovation startup urban.systems, which was chosen for the project by Jaguar
Land Rover, will include six months of staff support and mentorship by the
incubator staff, as well as financial assistance. Among urban.systems’s
first projects will be products and services for the management of
multi-passenger electric vehicle fleets.
Pangea Motors was not named in Tuesday’s official announcement by the Jaguar
Land Rover incubator, but its work was selected by urban.systems as its
first project. On Thursday, Pangea Motors announced that urban.systems,
which has Pangea CEO Ken Montler as one of its four leaders, has selected
management of multi-passenger electric vehicle fleets as one of its first
projects.
Jaguar Land Rover said in its initial announcement, released at the Consumer
Electronics Show in Las Vegas, that urban.systems “will focus its efforts on
low-cost, scalable infrastructure technologies that leverage open-data,
open-source technology and community-based urban planning.” Pangea says that
research is aimed at refining its pilot project in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.
Pangea’s goal is to launch its open-software electric vehicle service, with
ten 16-passenger buses, in that city in the first half of this year, .
Pangea already has attracted international attention by introducing its
16-passenger electric buses in Manila, the congested capital city of the
Philippines. It also is working on electric vehicle systems for U.S. college
campuses, military bases and residential communities.
The Portland-based urban.systems technology firm says its mission is to
provide design, acquisition and management products and services to
technology startups. Co-founders are Wilfred Pinfold, a former Intel
executive; John Teeter, a technologist who was named a White House
Presidential Innovation Fellow; and Stan Curtis, a technology startup
entrepreneur.
Jaguar Land Rover’s innovation incubator, launched last year, is intended
“to encourage, promote and support new software-based automotive
technologies that are being developed by U.S. technology startups,” the
company says on its website. The incubator has a goal of assisting 120
companies over the next decade.
In addition to urban.systems, the incubator this year will assist BabyBit, a
Portland company founded by Intel veteran Brian Ostrovsky that offers
wearable devices that can be used to track a toddler’s location, body
position and temperature; and Parkit, of Houston, which has developed
camera-based, real-time parking data to helps drivers find available parking
spots.
Each startup will have two to six staffers working out of the Jaguar Land
Rover incubator location in Northwest Portland’s Pearl District.
[© columbian.com]
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[EVDL] EVLN: $200k EHang-184 1seat auton e-Drone/AAV @CES r:23min ts:63mph
'Kia testing autonomous Soul EV on Nevada roads'
http://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/07/autonomous-single-passenger-electric-drone-unveiled-at-ces/
Autonomous Single Passenger Electric Drone Unveiled At CES
January 7th, 2016 Steve Hanley
[image
http://c1cleantechnicacom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/files/2016/01/EHang-184-570x379.jpg
video
https://youtu.be/IrPejpbz8RI
EHANG184, world's first Autonomous Aerial Vehicle
Ghost Drone Jan 6, 2016
EHang 184, the world's first electric, personal Autonomous Aerial Vehicle
(AAV) that will achieve humanity's long-standing dream of easy, everyday
flight for short-to-medium distances.
]
Disruption is the hot concept in transportation these days. Everyone from
Elon Musk to Paul Elio think he has invented the next new thing, the idea
that will stand everything we know about getting from here to there on its
head.
Meet the mother of all disruptors — the EHang 184. What is it? Why, it’s an
electric drone that can carry one 220 lb person in air conditioned comfort
to a height of 11,500 feet. It has a maximum speed of 63 mph and can stay
aloft for 23 minutes at sea level. It also flies itself autonomously. All
the passenger does is program in a flight plan. After that, the EHang 184
responds only to 2 commands, “Take off” and “Land.” They are entered by
clicking a Microsoft Surface tablet. Once on the ground, it folds so it
takes up no more room than an ordinary passenger car.
Once airborne, there are no in-flight controls. In the event of an
emergency, the company would use a remote control center to land the
electric drone safely says EHang co-founder and chief financial officer
Shang Hsiao It should be pointed out that no such remote control center
currently exists.
EHang’s marketing officer, Derrick Xiong, told the Phys.org at this year’s
Consumer Electronics Show that the electric drone has flown more than 100
times at low altitude in a forested area in Guangzhou, China. Several of
those trips were made with an actual (very nervous) person on board.
Xiong adds that one thing that makes quad-copters safer than helicopters is
the number of propellers it has. Even if three of the four arms have their
propellers disabled, propellers on the remaining arm can ensure a safe if
somewhat rough landing by spiraling down to the ground.
Shang Hsaio says the EHang 184 will retail for $200,000 to $300,000 dollars,
if and when it is ever imported to the US. Federal regulators are having a
hard enough time creating new rules to govern the commercial drones that
Amazon.com and FedEX want to use. Adding a human passenger to the mix would
complicate things considerably. The company says it has raised over
$50,000,000 in capital from investors so far.
[© cleantechnica.com]
...
http://aero-news.net/Subscribe.cfm?do=main.textpost=81be5e98-fc5e-4a80-a4ae-5eb273cd012c
First Human-Sized Multi-Rotor Prototype Unveiled At CES
Jan 08, 2016
http://www.commdiginews.com/featured/kia-set-to-test-autonomous-soul-ev-on-nevada-roads-55372/
Kia set to test autonomous Soul EV on Nevada roads
Jan 7, 2016 – At #CES2016, Kia boldly announced its Soul EV is about to go
fully self-driving on Nevada's public roads ... "Drive Wise," Kia’s current
“advanced driver assistance systems" (ADAS) is actually a group of “six key
technologies” that take drivers closer to fully autonomous vehicles ...
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Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v
There are things you can do to maximize life of the cells and the manufactures have recommended voltage and current settings but they will charge all the way up with anything above 2.15 volts. I prefer to go to manufactures recommendations myself. http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/ Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 12:35 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v Paul, It is not so simple. As David suggests, it is best to read Lee Hart's battery charging basics: http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html There is a _lot_ more to charging batteries than you might think. Even Lee's "brief" tutorial leaves quite a few of the subtleties out. Bill D. At 10:37 AM 1/12/2016, you wrote: >Lead acid cell voltage is 2.15 volts. 6 cells >make 12.9 volts. Anything above 12.9 will charge >it fully. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE >smartphone Original message >From: Robert Bruninga via EV ><ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 9:07 >AM (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion >List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: [EVDL] Lead >battery charging to 13.2v I put a gel cell on a >benchtop power supply and it charged overnight >to zero current at about 13.2v. So I upped it >to 13.8 to finish the charge and it basically >would not take cany more current. I always >thought the 13.8 and even 14v was the float >voltage and you had to at least get to that >voltage. I also remember that something like >13.2 is the highest one should go to provent any >gassing Anyway, if one leaves a battery >overnight on 13.2v and it tapers to 0, is it >âfullâ. If so, what is 13.8 all >aboiut. Bob -- next part >-- An HTML attachment was >scrubbed... URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/c3d15243/attachment.htm> > >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: >http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >-- next part -- An HTML >attachment was scrubbed... URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/95524f10/attachment.htm> > >___ >UNSUBSCRIBE: >http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/72e57fa9/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] U.S. : free charging : Fastned.nl
They made PR announcements:
http://insideevs.com/nissan-fastned-expand-partnership-4-years-of-free-fast-charging/
Nissan & Fastned Expand Partnership – 4 Years Of Free Fast Charging!
[20150107]
and awhile ago:
[dated]
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2yr-Unlimited-Free-FastNed-nl-EVSE-use-with-Leaf-EV-Purchase-tp4677754.html
EVLN: 2yr Unlimited-Free FastNed.nl EVSE use with Leaf EV Purchase
Sep 24, 2015
There are U.S. free-charging programs/schemes, but they don't seem as sweet
as Fastned's:
http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/charging-range/charging/no-charge-to-charge/
NISSAN LEAF no charge to charge
[current] (for Leaf buyers)
https://transportevolved.com/2015/11/18/bmw-offers-free-level-2-dc-quick-charging-for-new-bmw-i3-customers-but-not-for-existing-ones/
BMW Offers Free Level 2, DC Quick Charging for New BMW i3 Customers — But
Not For Existing Ones
November 18, 2015
(for new i3 buyers)
http://www.bmwusanews.com/newsrelease.do;jsessionid=0F183D2CBB69E0C7E5AB9290D5EC1CB0?=2483
And Ford only offers free charging for their pih
https://www.ev123charge.com/
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Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car
It's important to remember that corporations aren't people. They're more like sharks looking for food. You can't train a shark, but you can have some control over it if you control its food supply. If it goes somewhere that is beneficial, like manufacturing EVs, make sure there's a good supply of food for it there. If there isn't it'll go elsewhere. I really like Hondas, but I despise their approach to EVs. They did the same evil things to the EV+ that GM did to the EV1, but got no bad press for it. The EV1 was the poster child for EVs back then. So I refuse to buy a Honda until they change their ways, and I let them know about it. In my own small way I'm trying to control their food supply. Same with Toyota. If the Bolt is a genuine entry into the EV market and not a compliance car, I don't care what GM did in the past. A shark has no memory. Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/843d8cfe/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car
+ how they tried to destroy Ralph Nader. regards harsha godavari - Original Message - From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 5:12:21 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car On 11 Jan 2016 at 22:20, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > Or is that cutting off your nose to spite your face? Oh, don't get me wrong. It's not that I won't buy a GM EV. It's that I won't buy ANY GM vehicle, ever. It's not just their broken EV promises, it's not just their abominable treatment of the EV1 and its owners, it's not just their Onstar spyware, it's not just that they want to lock down your car (ICEV or EV) so only they can work on it. Those would be bad enough, but it's also that they actually want to make working on your own car a crime. http://consumerist.com/2015/05/20/gm-that-car-you-bought-were-really-the- ones-who-own-it/ http://v.gd/Qf35dR They could offer me the Bolt for $1 and I still wouldn't buy it. Seriously, screw 'em. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/74f1dd42/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v
I put a gel cell on a benchtop power supply and it charged overnight to zero current at about 13.2v. So I upped it to 13.8 to finish the charge and it basically would not take cany more current. I always thought the 13.8 and even 14v was the float voltage and you had to at least get to that voltage. I also remember that something like 13.2 is the highest one should go to provent any gassing… Anyway, if one leaves a battery overnight on 13.2v and it tapers to 0, is it “full”. If so, what is 13.8 all aboiut. Bob -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/c3d15243/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v
Lee Hart's basic lead battery charging instructions : http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v
Paul, It is not so simple. As David suggests, it is best to read Lee Hart's battery charging basics: http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html There is a _lot_ more to charging batteries than you might think. Even Lee's "brief" tutorial leaves quite a few of the subtleties out. Bill D. At 10:37 AM 1/12/2016, you wrote: Lead acid cell voltage is 2.15 volts. 6 cells make 12.9 volts. Anything above 12.9 will charge it fully. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 9:07 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v I put a gel cell on a benchtop power supply and it charged overnight to zero current at about 13.2v. So I upped it to 13.8 to finish the charge and it basically would not take cany more current. I always thought the 13.8 and even 14v was the float voltage and you had to at least get to that voltage. I also remember that something like 13.2 is the highest one should go to provent any gassing Anyway, if one leaves a battery overnight on 13.2v and it tapers to 0, is it âfullâ. If so, what is 13.8 all aboiut. Bob -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/c3d15243/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/95524f10/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car
Still does not solve the problem that some car manufacturers try to make working on your car or even getting specs on the parts of your own car, illegal and only allowed by manufacturer-approved repair places. Right to Repair, is all I am going to say here. righttorepair.org/ If I had a car new enough to have Onstar or similar remote access, then it might not always be connected to phone home... Luckily I do not have that problem, my current daily driver does not have cup holders or cig lighter plug... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga via EV Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 8:46 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car Well said. I applaud GM for giving leadership in the Volt. And grumpy ol'd grudge laiden people unwilling to try anything new just hold us all back. Bob -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Collin Kidder via EV Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 11:37 AM To: Chris Tromley; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car I agree. In addition, corporations, like people, go through phases. I'm sure many people would not want to be judged by how they were 20 or 30 years ago. You changed, you're a different person now than you were then. Corporations also get new leaders every so often and their direction can change. If the Bolt is a good car and everything they say it is then supporting it would not be evil. If you support the good things that a company does that tells them that they should keep doing those things. It's like feeding a shark as you said. Or, like giving a dog a cookie for doing what you wanted them to do. Positive reinforcement works. Yes, many people have long memories but nobody benefits from a grudge. At some point it pays to give a company a second chance if they appear to now be doing the right thing. In GM's case they would only be doing the right thing as a last resort and while dragging their feet the whole time. But, let's not validate their hesitance. On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Chris Tromley via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > It's important to remember that corporations aren't people. They're > more like sharks looking for food. You can't train a shark, but you > can have some control over it if you control its food supply. > > If it goes somewhere that is beneficial, like manufacturing EVs, make > sure there's a good supply of food for it there. If there isn't it'll > go elsewhere. > > I really like Hondas, but I despise their approach to EVs. They did > the same evil things to the EV+ that GM did to the EV1, but got no bad > press for it. The EV1 was the poster child for EVs back then. > > So I refuse to buy a Honda until they change their ways, and I let > them know about it. In my own small way I'm trying to control their > food supply. Same with Toyota. > > If the Bolt is a genuine entry into the EV market and not a compliance > car, I don't care what GM did in the past. A shark has no memory. > > Chris > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/84 > 3d8cfe/attachment.htm> ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag > racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v
You say 2.15 volts per cell. That is 2.15 x 6 = 12.9 volts for a "12 volt" lead acid battery. That is the _incorrect_ voltage for charging a 12 volt battery. The battery would never reach 100% charge at that voltage. You would want to charge to at least the "float" voltage of 13.2 volts. The battery would eventually reach full charge at the float voltage. It might take a long time, but it would get there. According to the Trojan battery reference (that _you_ gave,) you have a choice of a float voltage of 13.2 volts, or a "daily charge" of 14.8 volts, or an "equalize charge" of 15.5 volts. The Trojan page you referenced is specific to _flooded_ lead acid batteries however, rather than the sealed lead acid battery, either AGM or perhaps "Gell Cell", that the fellow was originally asking advice about. If that is indeed the fact (likely not, as a "gell cell" is typically really a VRLA AGM these days,) then something between 13.2 to 14.4 would be the appropriate voltage, just as Lee Hart's battery page says. A real gell cell would foam the gelled electrolyte if you gave it an "equalize" charge listed on the Trojan battery page, and that would be the end of it. Bill Dube' On 1/12/2016 11:49 AM, dovepa via EV wrote: There are things you can do to maximize life of the cells and the manufactures have recommended voltage and current settings but they will charge all the way up with anything above 2.15 volts. I prefer to go to manufactures recommendations myself. http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/ Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 12:35 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v Paul, It is not so simple. As David suggests, it is best to read Lee Hart's battery charging basics: http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html There is a _lot_ more to charging batteries than you might think. Even Lee's "brief" tutorial leaves quite a few of the subtleties out. Bill D. At 10:37 AM 1/12/2016, you wrote: Lead acid cell voltage is 2.15 volts. 6 cells make 12.9 volts. Anything above 12.9 will charge it fully. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 9:07 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v I put a gel cell on a benchtop power supply and it charged overnight to zero current at about 13.2v. So I upped it to 13.8 to finish the charge and it basically would not take cany more current. I always thought the 13.8 and even 14v was the float voltage and you had to at least get to that voltage. I also remember that something like 13.2 is the highest one should go to provent any gassing Anyway, if one leaves a battery overnight on 13.2v and it tapers to 0, is it âfullâ. If so, what is 13.8 all aboiut. Bob -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/c3d15243/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/95524f10/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part ------ An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/72e57fa9/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v
I said any voltage above 12.9 Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 6:17 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v You say 2.15 volts per cell. That is 2.15 x 6 = 12.9 volts for a "12 volt" lead acid battery. That is the _incorrect_ voltage for charging a 12 volt battery. The battery would never reach 100% charge at that voltage. You would want to charge to at least the "float" voltage of 13.2 volts. The battery would eventually reach full charge at the float voltage. It might take a long time, but it would get there. According to the Trojan battery reference (that _you_ gave,) you have a choice of a float voltage of 13.2 volts, or a "daily charge" of 14.8 volts, or an "equalize charge" of 15.5 volts. The Trojan page you referenced is specific to _flooded_ lead acid batteries however, rather than the sealed lead acid battery, either AGM or perhaps "Gell Cell", that the fellow was originally asking advice about. If that is indeed the fact (likely not, as a "gell cell" is typically really a VRLA AGM these days,) then something between 13.2 to 14.4 would be the appropriate voltage, just as Lee Hart's battery page says. A real gell cell would foam the gelled electrolyte if you gave it an "equalize" charge listed on the Trojan battery page, and that would be the end of it. Bill Dube' On 1/12/2016 11:49 AM, dovepa via EV wrote: > There are things you can do to maximize life of the cells and the >manufactures have recommended voltage and current settings but they will >charge all the way up with anything above 2.15 volts. > I prefer to go to manufactures recommendations myself. > http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/ > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message > From: Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 12:35 PM > (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: > Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v > Paul, > > It is not so simple. > As David suggests, it is best to read Lee Hart's battery charging basics: > http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html > > There is a _lot_ more to charging batteries than > you might think. Even Lee's "brief" tutorial > leaves quite a few of the subtleties out. > > Bill D. > > At 10:37 AM 1/12/2016, you wrote: >> Lead acid cell voltage is 2.15 volts. 6 cells >> make 12.9 volts. Anything above 12.9 will charge >> it fully. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE >> smartphone Original message >> From: Robert Bruninga via EV >> <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 9:07 >> AM (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion >> List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: [EVDL] Lead >> battery charging to 13.2v I put a gel cell on a >> benchtop power supply and it charged overnight >> to zero current at about 13.2v. So I upped it >> to 13.8 to finish the charge and it basically >> would not take cany more current. I always >> thought the 13.8 and even 14v was the float >> voltage and you had to at least get to that >> voltage. I also remember that something like >> 13.2 is the highest one should go to provent any >> gassing Anyway, if one leaves a battery >> overnight on 13.2v and it tapers to 0, is it >> âfullâ. If so, what is 13.8 all >> aboiut. Bob -- next part >> -- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/c3d15243/attachment.htm> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: >> http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> -- next part -- An HTML >> attachment was scrubbed... URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/95524f10/attachment.htm> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: >> http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > htt
Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v
Robert Bruninga wrote - > I put a gel cell on a benchtop power supply and it charged overnight to zero > current at about > 13.2v Inductive charging? Rush Dougherty Tucson AZ 85719 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car
I agree. In addition, corporations, like people, go through phases. I'm sure many people would not want to be judged by how they were 20 or 30 years ago. You changed, you're a different person now than you were then. Corporations also get new leaders every so often and their direction can change. If the Bolt is a good car and everything they say it is then supporting it would not be evil. If you support the good things that a company does that tells them that they should keep doing those things. It's like feeding a shark as you said. Or, like giving a dog a cookie for doing what you wanted them to do. Positive reinforcement works. Yes, many people have long memories but nobody benefits from a grudge. At some point it pays to give a company a second chance if they appear to now be doing the right thing. In GM's case they would only be doing the right thing as a last resort and while dragging their feet the whole time. But, let's not validate their hesitance. On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Chris Tromley via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > It's important to remember that corporations aren't people. They're more > like sharks looking for food. You can't train a shark, but you can have > some control over it if you control its food supply. > > If it goes somewhere that is beneficial, like manufacturing EVs, make sure > there's a good supply of food for it there. If there isn't it'll go > elsewhere. > > I really like Hondas, but I despise their approach to EVs. They did the > same evil things to the EV+ that GM did to the EV1, but got no bad press > for it. The EV1 was the poster child for EVs back then. > > So I refuse to buy a Honda until they change their ways, and I let them > know about it. In my own small way I'm trying to control their food > supply. Same with Toyota. > > If the Bolt is a genuine entry into the EV market and not a compliance car, > I don't care what GM did in the past. A shark has no memory. > > Chris > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/843d8cfe/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car
Well said. I applaud GM for giving leadership in the Volt. And grumpy ol'd grudge laiden people unwilling to try anything new just hold us all back. Bob -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Collin Kidder via EV Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 11:37 AM To: Chris Tromley; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] HOW GM BEATS TESLA TO THE Every Man's Electric Car I agree. In addition, corporations, like people, go through phases. I'm sure many people would not want to be judged by how they were 20 or 30 years ago. You changed, you're a different person now than you were then. Corporations also get new leaders every so often and their direction can change. If the Bolt is a good car and everything they say it is then supporting it would not be evil. If you support the good things that a company does that tells them that they should keep doing those things. It's like feeding a shark as you said. Or, like giving a dog a cookie for doing what you wanted them to do. Positive reinforcement works. Yes, many people have long memories but nobody benefits from a grudge. At some point it pays to give a company a second chance if they appear to now be doing the right thing. In GM's case they would only be doing the right thing as a last resort and while dragging their feet the whole time. But, let's not validate their hesitance. On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Chris Tromley via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > It's important to remember that corporations aren't people. They're > more like sharks looking for food. You can't train a shark, but you > can have some control over it if you control its food supply. > > If it goes somewhere that is beneficial, like manufacturing EVs, make > sure there's a good supply of food for it there. If there isn't it'll > go elsewhere. > > I really like Hondas, but I despise their approach to EVs. They did > the same evil things to the EV+ that GM did to the EV1, but got no bad > press for it. The EV1 was the poster child for EVs back then. > > So I refuse to buy a Honda until they change their ways, and I let > them know about it. In my own small way I'm trying to control their > food supply. Same with Toyota. > > If the Bolt is a genuine entry into the EV market and not a compliance > car, I don't care what GM did in the past. A shark has no memory. > > Chris > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/84 > 3d8cfe/attachment.htm> ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag > racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Leaf - 5 years free charging in Holland
Looks like the Dutch and Nissan are getting together in Holland, why can't some company do the same thing here. https://chargedevs.com/newswire/dutch-buyers-get-four-years-of-fast-charging-wit h-nissan-evs/ Rush Dougherty www.TucsonEV.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v
Lead acid cell voltage is 2.15 volts. 6 cells make 12.9 volts. Anything above 12.9 will charge it fully. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/12/2016 9:07 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: [EVDL] Lead battery charging to 13.2v I put a gel cell on a benchtop power supply and it charged overnight to zero current at about 13.2v. So I upped it to 13.8 to finish the charge and it basically would not take cany more current. I always thought the 13.8 and even 14v was the float voltage and you had to at least get to that voltage. I also remember that something like 13.2 is the highest one should go to provent any gassing… Anyway, if one leaves a battery overnight on 13.2v and it tapers to 0, is it “full”. If so, what is 13.8 all aboiut. Bob -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/c3d15243/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/95524f10/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
