Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
$600 is the average cost of purchase of a *Level 2* charging station (240V). Many of our customers (I work for an EVSE maker) will install our chargers themselves, that is why we make variants with a standard RV plug (NEMA 14-50) so no electrician is needed if you already have a 240V outlet anywhere near where you want to charge. Or you can have an electrician add a 50 Amp RV style outlet which typically costs much less than installing a Level 2 station with hardwire connection. So, yes - you can have an electrician do all the work and supply the charging station and install it for you if you do not want to go online such as Amazon, buy a plug-in charging station and, well, plug it in... On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 9:54 PM Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > > So *that’s* where the $600 comes from. > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > > > On Oct 23, 2021, at 5:50 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV > > wrote: > > > > Every EV sold in the USA includes a level 1 EVSE that simply plugs into a > > standard 120V outlet. Some of these will even work plugged into 240V and > > charge twice as fast. > > > > Replacement cost for a level-1 EVSE from the manufacturer is typicaly > > around $600, but their are NUMEROUS cheaper level 1 EVSEs available. > > > > Most people who want to hard wire an EVSE opt for level-2 (typically in the > > 3kw to 9.6kw range) > > > > I have some Level 2 EVSEs, but I haven't gotten around to wiring them in > > yet because level-1 works good enough for us right now. > > > > > > My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key > > > > October 23, 2021 5:22 PM, "Mark Abramowitz via EV" > > wrote: > > > >> I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found > >> this: > >> > >> https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger > >> > >> “ For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before > >> labor, which stands at about > >> $1,000 to $1,700.” > >> > >> Is this wrong? > >> > >> - Mark > >> > >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> > >>>> On Oct 23, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV > >>>> wrote: > >>> > >>> She lost me on $600 level 1 charger(EVSE) Lawrence Rhodes > >>> ___ > >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> > >> -- next part -- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: > >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/b2388b1a/attachment.html> > >> ___ > >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
I have seen this work, in my home country of The Netherlands, the majority of the homes are what we would call townhomes, a block of about 5 homes built as a single unit with only front doors facing the sidewalk and possibly the two end homes having a driveway or garage, so consequently mostly parking in the street required. For that reason, throughout the country in every city and town, every few streets a pair of parallel parking slots is marked EV charging and a small pole is erected on the sidewalk between the two slots. The pole has a card reader and two EV charging plugs. With the growing EV population, the number of EV charging spots will grow as well to accommodate those who cannot rely on charging at work or in the driveway/garage. I have also before relayed our story of living in an apartment for a couple months, where our selection criteria included the ability to charge my electric truck. We found an apartment where the manager worked with us, allowing us to drop a cord from our balcony into the assigned parking slot under the building (luckily the last slot, next to landscaping, so I could always tuck the cord away in a non-traffic area when not charging). That kept my truck charged for several months, besides the ability to plug into an outdoor outlet at work. BTW, this is exactly the reason for the recent addition of mandatory EV charging accommodation in new construction and remodeling. Cor. On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 6:30 PM Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > > Not in L.A.. > > In California, 50% of the population live in multi-unit housing. How many can > reasonably charge at home? I don’t know. > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > > > On Oct 23, 2021, at 5:42 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV > > wrote: > > > > I'll grant you that there might be a few urban drivers that can't charge > > at home. > > However, in big Cities like NY, many(most?) of the urbanites don't have ANY > > cars, relying instead on public transportation, taxis, walking, etc. > > > > > > > > My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key > > > > October 23, 2021 2:40 PM, "Matthew Pitts via EV" wrote: > > > >> Rural and suburban drivers might have the option to charge at home, and > >> there might be businesses > >> willing to allow employees to charge at work, but for urban EV owners, > >> public charging may in fact > >> be the only option. Just my opinion, though. > >> > >> Matthew Pitts > >> > >> Get BlueMail for Android > >> > >>> On Oct 23, 2021, 4:28 PM, at 4:28 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> EV's are charged while parked (usually at home or at work), not at > >>> public chargers. > >>> I have a new argument. > >>> > >>> Comparing a gas car and EV exclusively limited to public chargi9ng > >>> could equally be applied to comparing a gas car and EV exclusively > >>> limited to home refueling. Imagine having to walk to a gas station > >>> every night to get a few gallons for the tank at home! > >>> > >>> Bob > >>> > >>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 2:28 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV > >>> wrote: > >>>> https://amp.freep.com/amp/6110815001 Take onto consideration this is > >>> > >>> coming from ICE country in more than one way. I will comment on > >>> Twitter. Lawrence Rhodes > >>>> -- next part -- > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>> URL: > >>> > >>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/ca3f3dd8/attachment.html> > >>>> ___ > >>>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >>>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >>>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > >>>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> > >> -- next part -- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: > >> <http://lists.evdl.org/
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
So *that’s* where the $600 comes from. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Oct 23, 2021, at 5:50 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: > > Every EV sold in the USA includes a level 1 EVSE that simply plugs into a > standard 120V outlet. Some of these will even work plugged into 240V and > charge twice as fast. > > Replacement cost for a level-1 EVSE from the manufacturer is typicaly around > $600, but their are NUMEROUS cheaper level 1 EVSEs available. > > Most people who want to hard wire an EVSE opt for level-2 (typically in the > 3kw to 9.6kw range) > > I have some Level 2 EVSEs, but I haven't gotten around to wiring them in yet > because level-1 works good enough for us right now. > > > My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key > > October 23, 2021 5:22 PM, "Mark Abramowitz via EV" wrote: > >> I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found >> this: >> >> https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger >> >> “ For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before labor, >> which stands at about >> $1,000 to $1,700.” >> >> Is this wrong? >> >> - Mark >> >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone >> >>>> On Oct 23, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV >>>> wrote: >>> >>> She lost me on $600 level 1 charger(EVSE) Lawrence Rhodes >>> ___ >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/b2388b1a/attachment.html> >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
Not in L.A.. In California, 50% of the population live in multi-unit housing. How many can reasonably charge at home? I don’t know. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Oct 23, 2021, at 5:42 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: > > I'll grant you that there might be a few urban drivers that can't charge at > home. > However, in big Cities like NY, many(most?) of the urbanites don't have ANY > cars, relying instead on public transportation, taxis, walking, etc. > > > > My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key > > October 23, 2021 2:40 PM, "Matthew Pitts via EV" wrote: > >> Rural and suburban drivers might have the option to charge at home, and >> there might be businesses >> willing to allow employees to charge at work, but for urban EV owners, >> public charging may in fact >> be the only option. Just my opinion, though. >> >> Matthew Pitts >> >> Get BlueMail for Android >> >>> On Oct 23, 2021, 4:28 PM, at 4:28 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV >>> wrote: >>> >>> EV's are charged while parked (usually at home or at work), not at >>> public chargers. >>> I have a new argument. >>> >>> Comparing a gas car and EV exclusively limited to public chargi9ng >>> could equally be applied to comparing a gas car and EV exclusively >>> limited to home refueling. Imagine having to walk to a gas station >>> every night to get a few gallons for the tank at home! >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 2:28 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV >>> wrote: >>>> https://amp.freep.com/amp/6110815001 Take onto consideration this is >>> >>> coming from ICE country in more than one way. I will comment on >>> Twitter. Lawrence Rhodes >>>> -- next part -- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>> >>> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/ca3f3dd8/attachment.html> >>>> ___ >>>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >>>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >>>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> >>> ___ >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/664231f9/attachment.html> >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
Thank you. I didn’t think you needed installation of a Level 1 charger, so was a bit confused when I saw the article. Appreciate the clarification. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Oct 23, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote: > > Level 1 chargers typically plug into a standard 120v 15A outlet, and > require no installation. They typically cost between $180-$300. > > The numbers below are more accurate for a 240v volt hard wired level 2 > charger, which can cost in the $300-$700 range, and installation of a new > circuit/outlet/hardwiring can be between $400-$1,700 depending upon size, > distance from the existing panel, etc... > > Jay > >> On 10/23/21 8:22 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: >> I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found >> this: >> https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger/ >> “ For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before labor, >> which stands at about $1,000 to $1,700.” >> Is this wrong? >> - Mark >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone >>>> On Oct 23, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV >>>> wrote: >>> >>> She lost me on $600 level 1 charger(EVSE) Lawrence Rhodes >>> ___ >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/b2388b1a/attachment.html> >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
Every EV sold in the USA includes a level 1 EVSE that simply plugs into a standard 120V outlet. Some of these will even work plugged into 240V and charge twice as fast. Replacement cost for a level-1 EVSE from the manufacturer is typicaly around $600, but their are NUMEROUS cheaper level 1 EVSEs available. Most people who want to hard wire an EVSE opt for level-2 (typically in the 3kw to 9.6kw range) I have some Level 2 EVSEs, but I haven't gotten around to wiring them in yet because level-1 works good enough for us right now. My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key October 23, 2021 5:22 PM, "Mark Abramowitz via EV" wrote: > I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found this: > > https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger > > “ For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before labor, > which stands at about > $1,000 to $1,700.” > > Is this wrong? > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> On Oct 23, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV >> wrote: >> >> She lost me on $600 level 1 charger(EVSE) Lawrence Rhodes >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > -- next part ------ > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/b2388b1a/attachment.html> > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] Level 1 charger...Labor costs??? (was: Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.)
Seriously? You _seriously_ want to _hire_ someone to plug your Level 1 "trickle" charger (that comes with every EV) into a regular wall socket? Seriously? Bill D. On 10/24/2021 1:22 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found this: https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger/ “ For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before labor, which stands at about $1,000 to $1,700.” Is this wrong? - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone On Oct 23, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: She lost me on $600 level 1 charger(EVSE) Lawrence Rhodes ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/b2388b1a/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
I'll grant you that there might be a few urban drivers that can't charge at home. However, in big Cities like NY, many(most?) of the urbanites don't have ANY cars, relying instead on public transportation, taxis, walking, etc. My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key October 23, 2021 2:40 PM, "Matthew Pitts via EV" wrote: > Rural and suburban drivers might have the option to charge at home, and there > might be businesses > willing to allow employees to charge at work, but for urban EV owners, public > charging may in fact > be the only option. Just my opinion, though. > > Matthew Pitts > > Get BlueMail for Android > > On Oct 23, 2021, 4:28 PM, at 4:28 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV > wrote: > >> EV's are charged while parked (usually at home or at work), not at >> public chargers. >> I have a new argument. >> >> Comparing a gas car and EV exclusively limited to public chargi9ng >> could equally be applied to comparing a gas car and EV exclusively >> limited to home refueling. Imagine having to walk to a gas station >> every night to get a few gallons for the tank at home! >> >> Bob >> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 2:28 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV >> wrote: >>> https://amp.freep.com/amp/6110815001 Take onto consideration this is >> >> coming from ICE country in more than one way. I will comment on >> Twitter. Lawrence Rhodes >>> -- next part -- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >> >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/ca3f3dd8/attachment.html> >>> ___ >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/664231f9/attachment.html> > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
Level 1 chargers typically plug into a standard 120v 15A outlet, and require no installation. They typically cost between $180-$300. The numbers below are more accurate for a 240v volt hard wired level 2 charger, which can cost in the $300-$700 range, and installation of a new circuit/outlet/hardwiring can be between $400-$1,700 depending upon size, distance from the existing panel, etc... Jay On 10/23/21 8:22 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found this: https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger/ “ For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before labor, which stands at about $1,000 to $1,700.” Is this wrong? - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone On Oct 23, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: She lost me on $600 level 1 charger(EVSE) Lawrence Rhodes ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/b2388b1a/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found this: https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger/ “ For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before labor, which stands at about $1,000 to $1,700.” Is this wrong? - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Oct 23, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > > She lost me on $600 level 1 charger(EVSE) Lawrence Rhodes > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/b2388b1a/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Tesla Launches Entry Model 3 with Newer LFP Battery Tech in the U.S. - TeslaNorth.com
If you consider the entire pack design, LFP can approach the specific energy of NMC, NCA and other metal oxide batteries. Can't _quite_ get to the same W-hrs/kg on a pack basis, but may be close. The LFP cells also tend to have lower internal resistance, so the heat generated during discharge and fast charge can be less. The naked NCA cells have unbeatable specific energy. However, it requires quite a bit of extra weight to mitigate potential thermal runaway in NCA (etc) cells, and a huge engineering effort. LFP cells don't have these severe thermal runaway problems. Thermal management can be far less stringent, and thus the pack can be made simpler and lighter. Even so, LFP won't hold quite as much energy per kg on a pack level, at least at this point of development. Might be significantly cheaper, however. Bill D. On 10/22/2021 10:57 AM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote: Hi folks Looks like Elon Musk is trying to spin LiFePo4 batteries that we used in our conversions as the latest technology. I wonder if they’re large format cells too :-). https://teslanorth.com/2021/08/26/tesla-launches-entry-model-3-with-newer-lfp-battery-tech-in-the-u-s/ Best regards Mark in Roanoke Va Sent from my iPhone ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
She lost me on $600 level 1 charger(EVSE) Lawrence Rhodes ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
On 23 Oct 2021 at 16:27, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > EVs are charged while parked (usually at home or at work), not at > public chargers. I don't know that I'd say anything quite as final as "not at public chargers," but for sure there's much more home charging than public charging. There are certainly people who live in apartments and townhouses in big US cities and have to park on the street. This is also somewhat true in Europe, but some lucky few there have alleyways behind their houses where they can park and charge from a weatherproof EVSE on the outside wall of the house. For those who need it, public charging websites and apps help find the most affordable (even free) public charging. As charging options grow, competition is apt to drive down the overall cost. Meanwhile, I think that the gasoline prices in that article are a bit out of date. It's also not calculating the higher maintenance and repair costs for an ICEV, nor is it allowing for the differing externalized public costs. But that's what these articles do. They choose their data so as to arrive at the desired or required conclusion. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = We don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. -- Bill Watterson, "Calvin and Hobbes" = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
Rural and suburban drivers might have the option to charge at home, and there might be businesses willing to allow employees to charge at work, but for urban EV owners, public charging may in fact be the only option. Just my opinion, though. Matthew Pitts Get BlueMail for Android On Oct 23, 2021, 4:28 PM, at 4:28 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: >EV's are charged while parked (usually at home or at work), not at >public chargers. >I have a new argument. > >Comparing a gas car and EV exclusively limited to public chargi9ng >could equally be applied to comparing a gas car and EV exclusively >limited to home refueling. Imagine having to walk to a gas station >every night to get a few gallons for the tank at home! > >Bob > >On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 2:28 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV > wrote: >> >> https://amp.freep.com/amp/6110815001 Take onto consideration this is >coming from ICE country in more than one way. I will comment on >Twitter. Lawrence Rhodes >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/ca3f3dd8/attachment.html> >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >___ >Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >No other addresses in TO and CC fields >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ >LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/664231f9/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
EV's are charged while parked (usually at home or at work), not at public chargers. I have a new argument. Comparing a gas car and EV exclusively limited to public chargi9ng could equally be applied to comparing a gas car and EV exclusively limited to home refueling. Imagine having to walk to a gas station every night to get a few gallons for the tank at home! Bob On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 2:28 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > > https://amp.freep.com/amp/6110815001 Take onto consideration this is coming > from ICE country in more than one way. I will comment on Twitter. Lawrence > Rhodes > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/ca3f3dd8/attachment.html> > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
I grew up in Detroit, and delivered the Detroit Free Press (usually zero emission, by foot or bicycle). The paper is mainstream, but you’re right - ICE country. At least it *was* a few years ago. The OEMs there are going full EV, so there’s no reason to post FUD. And the numbers, while the bottom line numbers are surprising, sound relatively similar to numbers I’ve seen else elsewhere, from credible sources. They includes numbers not only included, but also not usually included because of subsidies that the consumer doesn’t always see. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Oct 23, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV > wrote: > > https://amp.freep.com/amp/6110815001 Take onto consideration this is coming > from ICE country in more than one way. I will comment on Twitter. Lawrence > Rhodes > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/ca3f3dd8/attachment.html> > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
Ho hum - another day, another thumb-on-the-scale anti-EV article. The author is correct about finding public charging here in the Midwest - it's still a problem. Also true: public charging costs vary more than gasoline and Diesel costs do. In part those facts are related. Increasing competition among public charging providers will eventually lead to a situation more like that of filling stations, for better and/or worse. Also true: EVs currently cost more than the ICEV equivalent. Here in the US, this may or may not change in the future, depending on how successful articles like this are at depressing demand for EVs. In the EU, it's already changing, and governments that actually WANT to cut CO2 and promote renewables provide serious EV subsidies. It also doesn't hurt that the EU has a rapidly growing stable of small, cheap, limited range city EVs that you'll never see here in the US. However, the article's "fueling" cost analysis is WAY off, most decidedly NOT "apples to apples." Most people who own EVs don't use expensive paid public charging exclusively - or even much. It's up to you, but I wouldn't waste my time responding to this hit piece. Especially with today's tribal-cult attitudes, you won't budge the convicted grease-heads, and those in the EV choir don't need to be preached to. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with every Microsoft product. -- Ferenc Mantfeld = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
https://amp.freep.com/amp/6110815001 Take onto consideration this is coming from ICE country in more than one way. I will comment on Twitter. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211023/ca3f3dd8/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
