Re: [EVDL] EVLN: NC wants to eliminate free EV charging

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Sorry David, I must.

I find it interesting that the government has now decided it can tell
privately owned retailers what they can offer the public.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via
EV
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2022 4:52 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: EV List Lackey
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: NC wants to eliminate free EV charging

On 9 Jul 2022 at 20:47, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> That's pretty regressive. 

Ya think? :-\

> Do you suspect there is some strong lobbying from the petroleum
> industry ? 

Could be.  It might also be modern politics.  I refuse to get into partisan 
stuff here, but there's a certain (often young) contingent I won't identify 
or discuss who are sort of the scrubbed-up suit-and-tie equivalent of the 
coal-rollers and EVSE-blockaders.  

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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 I think; therefore, I'm alone in the universe. 

 -- Vern, "Over the Hedge" 

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: "Electrified" Corvette next year

[Mark Grasser via EV]

And all wheel drive. This will certainly be a game changer.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via
EV
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2022 2:02 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: EV List Lackey
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: "Electrified" Corvette next year

"'We will have an electrified Corvette next year, so it's coming very 
quick,' General Motors President Mark Reuss told CNBC on Monday.

"An 'electrified' Corvette will be available first, with a fully electric 
Corvette to follow, he said. Reuss didn't go into further details, such as a

precise timeline or whether 'electrified' means it will be a plug-in 
hybrid." 

Full story (though still quite sketchy):

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/26/1094824868/corvette-electric-car-ev

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
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 Take the longest nap possible.  Do not nap underneath trucks.

 -- US Army Field Manual FM 7-22
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Re: [EVDL] tesla's sneaky rolling stops

[Mark Grasser via EV]

But if you read how It works, it only does the rolling stop if no other cars
are at the intersection. So the question is this. If no one is in the forest
and a tree falls, does it make a sound?

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via
EV
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2022 1:19 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: EV List Lackey
Subject: Re: [EVDL] tesla's sneaky rolling stops

On 1 Feb 2022 at 17:36, paul dove via EV wrote:

>  Dangerous trend to me. Why should your car make you follow the law?

Would you really want your car to cause you to BREAK the law?  Because 
that's what Tesla's rolling stop is doing.  

This "feature" hardly surprising from Elon Musk, who's demonstrated that he 
doesn't think that laws apply to him.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 It is not too much to expect that our children will enjoy in their 
 homes electrical energy too cheap to meter.

   -- Lewis Strauss, Atomic Energy Commission, 1954
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla's Self Driving Feature

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Should we bring up EV-1s while we are here! LOL

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Willie via EV
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2021 11:45 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Willie
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla's Self Driving Feature



On 7/10/21 9:43 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote:
>> I think that most Tesla devotees are either unaware of or underestimate
> the
>> level of distaste (to put it mildly) for Elon Musk that exists on the
>> periphery of EV interest.
> 
> While Elon may have an impulsive personality, you cannot ignore the
wonders
> he has done for Tesla and EVs in general. Without Elon, I believe it that
> we might not have production EVs today.

Nathan!  Please desist!  You are ruining my "Fell down the EVDL rabbit 
hole" experience!  Off with his head!

Elon Musk's successes CAN be ignored as we continue to do here.  Many 
here seem to want to return to the good old days when the future of EVs 
was very uncertain.
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Re: [EVDL] tesla now using cameras only

[Mark Grasser via EV]

I'm not sure how to read this. I think you mean brake, not break. LOL. Sorry
just really annoyed me this morning.
Mark

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Laity-Snyder
via EV
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 5:39 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Mark Laity-Snyder
Subject: Re: [EVDL] tesla now using cameras only

So how do you determine what has priority using both vision and radar? One
of the problems Tesla has is phantom breaking.  If you use both,  You have a
situation where one could be saying go and the other says break.  Obviously
breaking has to override go to be safe.  But then the car can break when not
needed and you get rear ended because the guy behind saw no reason for your
breaking because there was none.  

Sent from my iPhone

> IMO, Musk is not smart enough to listen to his AP team.  (some of the best
> people in the world at this)   He's known for firing people who resist his
> ideas.
> 
> I use Tesla AP all the time, and often in heavy Bay Area traffic.  One of
> the cool tricks radar enabled is detecting a car in front of another car
in
> front of you.  For instance, say a Honda Civic is in front, followed by a
> Ford Excursion.  The Honda slams on his brakes, but the Excursion guy is
on
> his phone and doesn't see the Honda until it's too late.  My
radar-equipped
> Tesla will slow down as soon as the Honda does, giving more time for cars
> to react behind me.   It's literally saved the day on more than one
> occasion.
> 
> Elon's theory is "People drive with vision only, they don't have Lidar or
> Radar".  That's bullshit.  Driver assistance systems have to be superhuman
> if we are going to let them have full authority.  It can't just be "as
good
> as a human", it has to be 100 or even 1000 times better than a human, or
it
> will never be allowed to assume full control.   Radar is cheap superhero
> capability.
> 
> I think what happened is the semiconductor shortage impacted Tesla's radar
> supply, so they found a work-around.
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 11:16 AM EVDL Administrator via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> 
>> Sometimes I really wonder about Tesla.  With the less than stellar
>> reputation that autopilot already has, it seems odd that they would
>> actually
>> delete some of the system's "eyes."  For the sake of EVs in general, I
>> sure
>> hope they know what they're doing.
>> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
>> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>   Never been to Cleveland when the sun was shining.
>>   Even when it shines, it looks like rain.
>> -- Melanie Safka, "Between the Road Signs"
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Re: [EVDL] opinion article on hydrogen

[Mark Grasser via EV]

The problem with Hydrogen is that it is a pollutant. Until they learn to create 
hydrogen from the sun, economically, it will stay a pollutant. Solar electric, 
wind electric, and batteries, even if they still weigh too much, have 
infrastructure, etc, they are not a pollutant. 
Mark



-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Abramowitz via EV
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 9:54 AM
To: p...@ingineerix.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Mark Abramowitz
Subject: Re: [EVDL] opinion article on hydrogen

There are many more “problems” with battery electric.  You call them 
“problems,” but they are really just characteristics that MAY make them less 
suitable than other option depending on the needed use case or duty cycle.

Charge time, infrastructure cost, weight, volume, storage

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On May 9, 2021, at 7:48 PM, (-Phil-) via EV  wrote:
> 
> I think we should switch as much of our transportation systems as possible
> to electric, but some of them just can't work with present (and near
> future) tech; Long-haul flights.   These are also very carbon intensive!
> 
> This is where we need biofuels.
> 
> The only problem for battery-electric is scaling it, and doing so without a
> huge up front carbon release.
> 
>> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 5:07 PM Bill Dennis via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> Here's a link to a timely video on the hydrogen flying topic:
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFlV1jY6K7Q
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Gales via
>> EV
>> Sent: Sunday, May 9, 2021 3:09 PM
>> To: p...@ingineerix.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Cc: Larry Gales
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] opinion article on hydrogen
>> 
>> There are 3 major types of flying to consider: (1) VTOL (mainly
>> helicopters), (2) regional flights up to 600 miles (more than 1/2 of all
>> commercial flights are within 600 miles), and (3) long distance flights,
>> more than 600 miles.
>> 
>> For the first two types, battery powered electric aircraft (like the 600+
>> mile range Eviation Alice), and VTOL are simply far superior to what we
>> have now, in terms of cleanliness, quietness, safety, smoothness, and
>> dramatically lower fuel and maintenance costs.  So, instead of flying less,
>> we will likely be flying more, and paying much less.
>> 
>> Some time ago I ran the figures for the cost of CH4 (methane) fuel if we
>> created CH4 by (a) electrolyzing water to get H2, (b) using Direct Air
>> Capture to get CO2, and (c) using the Sabatier process to produce CH4.
>> When burned in a jet engine it is carbon neutral because the CO2 we emit is
>> exactly the amount of CO2 that we captured.
>> 
>> I don't remember the exact cost of the fuel, but it was less than twice
>> what it is now.  But, given that fuel cost is only 20% of the cost for
>> current flights, that translates to prices about 20% more than at present.
>> 
>> So, maybe the very low cost of short range battery powered aircraft which
>> makeup more than 1/2 of all flights could subsidize the longer flights?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 1:36 PM (-Phil-) via EV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If future true carbon neutral is "handwaving", then I'd love to hear your
>>> proposal for long-distance air travel?  What have you got?
>>> 
>>> Right now until we have something like fusion, There isn't any current
>> tech
>>> that can handle it.  People aren't just going to stop flying.
>>> 
>>> The only path I can see right now is Biofuels, Yes it's dirty now, just
>>> like coal on the grid powering EVs, but it most definitely can be fixed
>> to
>>> be at least carbon neutral.  The solution to get free-enterprise to work
>> on
>>> this is a real carbon tax.
>>> 
>>> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 1:46 PM EVDL Administrator 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 On 8 May 2021 at 10:10, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
 
> Biofuels can at least be carbon neutral, as you can close the
> carbon cycle.  It will take a long way to get there of course, as the
> complete biofuel production cycle is also still a carbon intensive
> operation, but this can be fixed over time.
 
 With all due respect, "this can be fixed over time" is a bit too much
>>> hand-
 waving for my taste.
 
 The problem with biofuels is that growing and harvesting crops,
>>> processing
 them, and transporting the fuel to the use point requires substantial
 energy
 input, and most of it comes from carbon based fuels.  Even fertilizer
>> and
 pesticides are made from petroleum.  I just don't see that equation
 changing
 fast enough to get us to carbon-neutral in time.
 
 The only biofuel application I can think of that *might* get closer
>>> sooner
 -
 and I'm not 100% sure about even this - is electricity generation.  For
 example, Uruguay's power system runs largely on pulverized Eucalyptus
 wood.
 The 

Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Not only off topic but away from the discussion of the article I read. The
drone is to be used for deliveries between hubs avoiding the need for a
central hub. Had nothing to do with home delivery. Maybe I read the wrong
article?
Grasser

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dube via EV
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 5:29 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Bill Dube
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?

My hypothetical proposal was for EV drones (both tethered and perhaps 
non-tethered) delivering packages from a truck (which could be an EV) 
driven by a person. This would be safer as the driver could remain in 
the truck, and not worry about slippery terrain, strained muscles, 
viscous dogs, or irate package recipients.

The driver would directly supervise the delivery of each package, and 
decide if the specific delivery was within the capability of the drone. 
The drone would only take the package from the truck to the doorstep, 
instead of the driver doing so.

FAR more efficient and safe than long distance drone delivery from a 
central fixed location. (Likely fewer regulatory headaches as well.) No 
jobs eliminated. Just the worst part of the job being performed by a 
machine. The driver just makes sure it all goes smoothly and safely from 
the comfort of the cab of the truck (unless the driver decides it is 
safer/better to hand deliver the package.)

Bill D.


On 4/10/2021 6:47 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> This thread is mostly off topic.  However, there are a couple of critical
> points that everyone posting so far seems to be missing.
>
> I want Amazon, UPS, Fedex, and ESPECIALLY USPS to convert their delivery
> fleets to EVs.
>
> But I want HUMANS driving them.  I want HUMANS delivering my packages to
my
> door.  And I want those humans to be treated decently and humanely in
their
> jobs.  For goodness sake let's at least give them a reasonable number of
> bathroom breaks.
>
> Humans can make judgements.  Machines can only do what they're programmed
to
> do.
>
> Machines also can't buy stuff to keep a consumer economy moving forward.
> The more people you put out of work by turning their jobs over to
machines,
> the fewer there are to spend money.  When does it stop?  When all the
Amazon
> vans are automated?  When UPS and Fedex are too?  When all the OTR trucks
> are automated?  When your job is automated?
>
> As the old song says, the fact that you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
>
> But by all means, put those human drivers in ELECTRIC delivery vehicles.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>   My father taught me that a job worth doing is worth doing right.
>   It's advice that has served me well. It's mind-boggling the
>   number of jobs not worth doing and the incalculable hours I've
>   saved by not doing them.
>
>   -- Jimmy Johnson
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
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Re: [EVDL] Volt module details.

[Mark Grasser via EV]

I am designing and building my own. Despite what you might hear it isn’t rocket 
science. Should be done in the next six months. It is the last thing I am 
worried about.
Mark
 
From: Dan Baker [mailto:vmd...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2021 7:50 AM
To: Mark Grasser
Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt module details.
 
Thanks Mark!  What BMS are you using to top balance?
 
On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 9:42 AM Mark Grasser  wrote:
I am building my EV around used Chevy volt batteries. To me it is a no
brainer. They are lighter, smaller, inexpensive, water cooled / heated, bolt
together, will be relatively easy to top balance. To be honest, I see no
issues.
Mark Grasser

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Dan Baker via EV
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2021 7:32 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Dan Baker
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt module details.

Hey David
Thanks for commenting in.  But what you said above could also be applied to
any home built EV -  don't build one as it likely isn't safe.   No one is
really collecting enough data to answer either questions.
I build or try to build my boats to the ABYC standards in which I was
certified a few years back.  ABYC standards are much more stringent around
electrical standards then most automotive ones.  I can't find anything in
the standards yet around Lithium & BMS but I imagine one would be required.
So back to my BNS question -  anyone else here running a BMS on their Volt
packs or have any parallel pack experience?   I'm looking more  closely now
at the Dilithium kits from Thunderstruck.  But where the Volt packs are
really robust do I really need a full feature BMS, is there a good one out
there that just displays/ alarms when pack is in danger?  The china battery
pack I currently own has a full BMS but the discharge output is limited to
about 150 amp continuous, anything above that the BMS module relays or
circuits get too warm and it cuts out.  I can limit current output on the
controller instead with my newer setup and watch battery temps.

Thanks again for all the great comments and help so far!
Dan

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 10:28 PM EVDL Administrator via EV

wrote:

> Jerry, as media folks like to say, "the plural of anecdote is not data."
>
> What you've given us is an anecdote, your own limited experience.
> Unfortunately that's not really useful statistical data on the safety - or
> hazard - of Volt batteries without BMSes in situations that may be very
> different from yours.
>
> Probably thousands of people put pennies under their fuses (or swapped 15
> amp for 30 amp) and never had a fire because they never actually
> overloaded
> the circuits. So would you say there also that "at some point one has to
> admit that is how it is vs previous thoughts"?
>
> A BMS is similar.  If everything goes right, you may never have a
> problem.
> That doesn't mean that it's safe, any more than overfusing is safe.
>
> The EVDL is a public forum that's archived in several different places on
> the web.  This isn't 1999 any more and in the interest of your own legal
> safety I suggest that you be a little bit cautious about what you write
> here.
>
> I won't say you shouldn't cite your own experience - quite the opposite.
> I
> think it's definitely worth reporting it, even though I personally
> wouldn't
> do the same.
>
> However, I strongly suggest that you add a disclaimer stating that this is
> your experience only, and that battery and automotive engineers don't
> consider it safe to use a lithium battery without a proven reliable BMS.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>  I asked a man in prison once how he happened to be there and
>  he said he had stolen a pair of shoes. I told him if he had
>  stolen a railroad he would be a United States Senator.
>
> -- Mary Harris Jones
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>
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Re: [EVDL] Volt module details.

[Mark Grasser via EV]

I am building my EV around used Chevy volt batteries. To me it is a no
brainer. They are lighter, smaller, inexpensive, water cooled / heated, bolt
together, will be relatively easy to top balance. To be honest, I see no
issues.
Mark Grasser

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Dan Baker via EV
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2021 7:32 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Dan Baker
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt module details.

Hey David
Thanks for commenting in.  But what you said above could also be applied to
any home built EV -  don't build one as it likely isn't safe.   No one is
really collecting enough data to answer either questions.
I build or try to build my boats to the ABYC standards in which I was
certified a few years back.  ABYC standards are much more stringent around
electrical standards then most automotive ones.  I can't find anything in
the standards yet around Lithium & BMS but I imagine one would be required.
So back to my BNS question -  anyone else here running a BMS on their Volt
packs or have any parallel pack experience?   I'm looking more  closely now
at the Dilithium kits from Thunderstruck.  But where the Volt packs are
really robust do I really need a full feature BMS, is there a good one out
there that just displays/ alarms when pack is in danger?  The china battery
pack I currently own has a full BMS but the discharge output is limited to
about 150 amp continuous, anything above that the BMS module relays or
circuits get too warm and it cuts out.  I can limit current output on the
controller instead with my newer setup and watch battery temps.

Thanks again for all the great comments and help so far!
Dan

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 10:28 PM EVDL Administrator via EV

wrote:

> Jerry, as media folks like to say, "the plural of anecdote is not data."
>
> What you've given us is an anecdote, your own limited experience.
> Unfortunately that's not really useful statistical data on the safety - or
> hazard - of Volt batteries without BMSes in situations that may be very
> different from yours.
>
> Probably thousands of people put pennies under their fuses (or swapped 15
> amp for 30 amp) and never had a fire because they never actually
> overloaded
> the circuits. So would you say there also that "at some point one has to
> admit that is how it is vs previous thoughts"?
>
> A BMS is similar.  If everything goes right, you may never have a
> problem.
> That doesn't mean that it's safe, any more than overfusing is safe.
>
> The EVDL is a public forum that's archived in several different places on
> the web.  This isn't 1999 any more and in the interest of your own legal
> safety I suggest that you be a little bit cautious about what you write
> here.
>
> I won't say you shouldn't cite your own experience - quite the opposite.
> I
> think it's definitely worth reporting it, even though I personally
> wouldn't
> do the same.
>
> However, I strongly suggest that you add a disclaimer stating that this is
> your experience only, and that battery and automotive engineers don't
> consider it safe to use a lithium battery without a proven reliable BMS.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>  I asked a man in prison once how he happened to be there and
>  he said he had stolen a pair of shoes. I told him if he had
>  stolen a railroad he would be a United States Senator.
>
> -- Mary Harris Jones
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Re: [EVDL] Minibms?

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Jay,
I know it is cumbersome but we are still running our wave solder machine, 
making our own through hole product. We could do small runs easily, that’s what 
we do anyway. You'd have to come back to through hole though.
Mark

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jay Summet via EV
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:31 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Jay Summet
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Minibms?

Even the v3 boards are not terribly complicated from a circuit 
standpoint.  And I feel confident that the firmware they run could be 
replicated. I could easily see creating an open source PCB and firmware 
again.  The difficulty is with manufacture/distribution in my mind.  
There are a few assembly houses that will do short runs, but it's very 
hard to do that economically.  So somebody could build/sell replacement 
units, but I fear that the market is relatively small.   (mostly limited 
to replacements for existing installations)


Other BMS's with cell level monitoring/reporting offer a better option 
and their price points are coming down.

I've been strongly considering a BMS upgrade for my truck as the next 
major upgrade (due to the fact that the miniBMS modules are not easily 
available for replacement, and do a poor job of keeping the pack balanced.)

Jay

On 4/27/20 7:26 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
> The MiniBMS system was originally started as an open source project by 
> users of the DIY Electric Car forum. It was mostly spearheaded by 
> Dimitri, with input from several interested users. The first version 
> as intended to be able to used with all the cell modules on one PCB, 
> with voltage sense wiring going to each cell. It could also be cut 
> into individual PCBs and cell-mounted. There are vestigial PCB traces 
> for the opto interconnection even on the v.2 cell modules from this 
> design (I cut those traces off individual boards, as they add to the 
> creepage problem). A 4x4/16 cell PCB was standard, but other 
> configurations were possible.
>
> After the basic system was designed by the group, and Dimitri had a 
> few runs of v.1 and then v.2 boards printed and stuffed, he decided 
> that the project was no longer open source, and took it private, much 
> to the dissatisfaction of the other participants. It wasn't a lot 
> after that the he sold the intellectual property rights and name to 
> EVPower, who further refined the design and packaging.
>
> I agree that we have a chance to reintroduce a good portion of these 
> available cell modules to the EV community for those who are 
> interested. How shall we procede?
>
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Re: [EVDL] Eminent domain

[Mark Grasser via EV]

 

Eminent Domain cannot be used to enrich corporations. I t can only take private 
land for public use.




You might think that but things are changing in America as we know it.

Look up "FoxConn Mount Pleasant Wisconsin" where governor Scott Walker and his 
cronies Did an eminent domain land grab, took thousands of acres and then gave 
it all to FoxConn of Taiwan for a new factory.


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Re: [EVDL] Rear Diff IRS | Direct Drive

[Mark Grasser via EV]

You might consider changing the gear ratio. I am using a BMW diff that has a
4.44 to 1 ratio which is a little low also but I am using 2 9" motors in
series that will make things better. If I don't like it I am going to use a
Ford thunderbird diff which can be loaded with 5.13 to 1 gears.

Mark Grasser

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of forrest.whitmore
via EV
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2019 3:50 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: forrest.whitmore
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Rear Diff IRS | Direct Drive

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list wrote
>   
> Finally, there is the efficiency advantage of operating at the motor's
> peak 
> of the rpm-vs-efficiency curve, which also means less of the energy wasted

> as heat.
> 
> I think you probably want to gear your drive so that your motor is
> operating 
> at its peak efficiency rpm when you're at your typical cruising speed, and

> so that the top speed you want doesn't exceed the motor's red line.  But 
> that's not usually the gearing you get with an ICEV factory differential.

> That's why most single-ratio conversions I know of have either locked the 
> stock transmission in a lower gear, or used a custom gearbox.
> 
> I expect that a 3.27 final drive with no other reduction would call for 
> either absurdly small wheels or a large, heavy, low-rpm motor.  Maybe
> both.
> 
> What vehicle are you converting?  Are any other final drive ratios
> available 
> for it?  Maybe there's a transaxle from a FWD car you could somehow
> shoehorn 
> in?

Thanks for the response David and direction. I worked out the
rpm-vs-efficiency and gearing out in a spreadsheet. A 3.27 diff with no
reduction doesn't work out well at all. I'm going to develop a custom
single-speed gearbox coupled to the rear diff to get the final drive that
works best. Although there's a transaxle for my vehicle, I'd rather optimize
the use of space and gearing in the vehicle. 

Forrest Walker Whitmore

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Re: [EVDL] Solar off grid with an EV? (transformers)

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Nicely said David,
Mark Grasser

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator
via EV
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2019 2:17 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: EVDL Administrator
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar off grid with an EV? (transformers)

On 14 Jul 2019 at 12:16, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

> But why are you so determined to use batteies when the cost of grid power
is
> ditrt cheap.

I'm not the one you're addressing here, but since this concerns me too, I'll

reply that unless the politics changes radically -- which seems unlikely -- 
I see a dim future for net metering here in the US.  If I built a grid 
intertie system this year, I wouldn't have much confidence that it would 
still be economically viable, or even legal, for its entire practical 
lifetime.  

On the other hand, an offgrid system means I don't really care (personally) 
what the laws and the electric utilities do. I'm making my own energy.  I 
owe Ohio Edison nothing for it.  What they do to try to inhibit that is much

less likely to slow me down.

Yes, offgrid costs more.  Freedom often does.  That's its nature.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Yes, $46,000 is a lot of money but don't forget about the savings in fuel
dollars over say 10 years or  maybe 100,000 mles. Is it maybe $15,000.00.
Makes it like buying a $31,000.00 car. One of the reasonswe build our own.




Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu

On 16 Oct 2018 at 19:57, robert winfield via EV wrote:

> Maybe you forget how few years Tesla has been selling EV'sMaybe you 
> don't know what you are talking about when you declare "they failed"

No, I don't forget.  Yes, I do know what I'm talking about.

Tesla has done lots of good things.  They went where few automakers refused
to go, showing them the way.  They built cars that in many ways are some of
the best around, regardless of energy source.  For that, I admire them.  
Don't misunderstand me on that.

But when they set out to build a car that people of modest means (like me)
could afford, I'm sorry, they failed.  

Maybe to all of you, $46k is chump change.  I'm glad for you.  But for
millions of people worldwide, that's a lot of money.  The low income sector
is the fastest growing class worldwide, and for SURE it is here in the
States  

When a person is bringing in $25k or $30k or $35k a year and trying to
support a family, and I personally know people in that situation, do you
really want to encourage him to buy a $46k car that he can't afford?

And don't give me that nose-in-the-air rubbish about how they chose their
lot.  Sometimes you do everything right and you still get what life hands
you.

I gave you an example of what I consider an affordable car.  You dismissed
it and said it wasn't comparable.  That's not the point. If you can't afford
the more expensive car, it doesn't matter how good it is.  You're buying the
cheaper one.  

The good news is that you're not totally shut out of the EV world.  Used
Nissan Leaves and a few other models are now available in the US for
reasonably affordable prices.  I don't know about other countries though,
nor do I know how long the present glut of cheap Leaves will last.

I haven't driven a Model 3, probably never will, but I'm sure it's a great
car.  Maybe it really is comparable to an BMW or Mercedes.  

But blast it, THAT'S NOT WHAT TESLA PROMISED FOR THE MODEL 3.  They promised
an affordable EV.  Most of us assumed they meant something more or less
comparable to a mid-range Toyota.  But that's not what Tesla delivered.  
Instead, they gave us a somewhat cut down Model S that doesn't get to use
Superchargers for free.  

Some of us are not impressed.

In many other efforts, Tesla succeeded, but not in that one.  Maybe someday
they will.  I hope so.

And that's all I have to say on this subject.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Advice on new battery pack

[Mark Grasser via EV]

I purchased 7,500 kw (168 x 45) for about $1,200.00 through EBay. Supplied
the end plates and water hoses too. I think next time I will just buy a
salvage Volt and sell off the rest, then scrap it.

Sincerely,
Mark Grasser -
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Advice on new battery pack

On Fri Jun 22 21:57:41 PDT 2018 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>You can get 16kw worth of Volt packs for under $2k without shopping 
>around much or lucking out.

Where?


--

Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
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Re: [EVDL] Mercury Messenger

[Mark Grasser via EV]

My Fiero project uses a BMW Z3 differential. IT is a 4.44:1 ratio. It is
very small. Might work?

Sincerely,
Mark Grasser -
 
-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Electric Blue auto
convertions via EV
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 12:34 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] Mecury Messanger

I have this Mercury Messenger just about done, did a test drive and found
out the rear end ratio is way to low. 2.53to 1 , This car has no trans, no
place to put one. Its direct drive 


I find out that the rear end Diff and carrier with axles are all Jaguar
X-type, The bad thing is that Jag only made the X-type with one gear ratio,
2.53 to 1 . I did a tooth count . 
Finally I found a BMW SUV that the front diff is about the same size,
(smaller) but the axles are bolt to gear, the Jag is slip in spline to gear.
Now I have to make mounts, modify the BMW axles to adapt to the Jag axles .
The Fun never ends . The test drive was like being in a buck board LOL , No
springs in this car, it was for show only, so the owner will put air bags in
it when it gets back to Chicago
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Re: [EVDL] hub motor cooling ac motor

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Good point. It is very hard to hold onto metal above 70degC. I would bet the
max temp to be much higher than that. Also if you are concerned why not duct
air to it? In days way passed, we used 3" ducting on the cars we raced to
cool the brakes. It is very affective.

Mark Grasser


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of damon henry via EV
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 12:53 PM
To: EV List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] hub motor cooling ac motor

You are assuming that just because you cannot touch it the temperature is a
problem.  That is not necessarily true.  Do you have any specs that specify
acceptable operating temperatures?
damon

> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:41:10 -0400
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: [EVDL] hub motor cooling ac motor
> From: ev@lists.evdl.org
> 
>  When hill climbing roads at 25 mph and 40 amps, which it draws same 
> amps at 40 mph on the flat .  on my 3 kw wheel, it starts heating up 
> to the point of be not touchable . I thought of drilling a very small 
> hole 1/8 inch near the axle and fill the inside maybe 25% . but don't 
> know what kind of oil that'd not hurt wrirng etc. or would a high 
> wattage motor help ?
> 
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Re: [EVDL] temp sensors on brushes

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Roger,
Thanks, 
This is more than enough information. I like the idea of drilling and epoxy
into place one brush in each motor. I just looked, there are two brushes in
each of four places. Eight brushes on each motor. I am thinking I will
thermocouple the brush closest to the armature as it should be the hotter of
the two.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Mark

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] temp sensors on brushes

Mark Grasser wrote:

> I seem to remember one of the hottest points being the brushes themselves.
> I am going to drill and tap about ¼" deep for 4-40 screw on the wire 
> end of the brush.  Concerns would be these: are the brushes a god 
> point to read temperature? Am I in danger of splitting the brush 
> during this process?
> Will the screw threads hold up? Would I be smarter attempting to epoxy 
> the thermistor to the brush instead? Oh, What temperatures should I 
> expect?

Convention appears to be to epoxy a thermocouple into the brush for
monitoring brush temperatures.  The positive brushes tend to run hotter, so
if you only monitor one, make it a positive one.

Jim Husted noted that there are downsides to attaching a temperature sensor
to the brush, including the possibility of the sensor wiring becoming
connected to the traction power, the sensor wiring interfering with free
movement of the brush (e.g. most thermocouple wire is relatively stiff solid
core), and that you have to redo the sensor when you replace the brushes.
He suggested the mounting the sensor to the brush holder might be a
reasonable compromise.

Below are a couple of relevant posts from those more knowledgeable than I on
this subject.

Cheers,

Roger.

> -Original Message-
> From: Otmar [mailto:otli...@evcl.com]
> Sent: July-24-05 5:54 PM
> To: e...@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Thermocouple position, was: Re: 120v 6.7" ADC?
> 
> At 9:17 PM +1000 7/14/05, James Massey wrote:
> >Hi Otmar and all
> >
> >At 10:37 AM 12/07/05 -0700, Otmar wrote:
> >>I was taught by the engineers at ADC to drill a half inch deep hole 
> >>in the positive brush and put the thermocouple in there.
> >
> >Any ideas as to why the positive brush?
> >
> >Is it just an ADC in-house convention, or is there a technical reason 
> >for
> it?
> >
> >I can theorise no reason for the positive brush to get hotter than 
> >the negative, unless the electron flow into the brush heats it more 
> >than the electron flow out of the negative one.
> >
> >Any theories?
> 
> Sorry for the delay, I've been out of town and am just getting to 
> hundreds of EV list messages.
> 
> 
> I was told the positive brush gets hotter. I can only theorize that it 
> has to do with electron flow.
> 
> --
> -Otmar-

> -Original Message-
> From: owner...@listproc.sjsu.edu [mailto:owner...@listproc.sjsu.edu] 
> On Behalf Of Jeff Major
> Sent: June-19-07 10:42 AM
> To: e...@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Max motor temperatures and temp sender install
> 
> 
> Hi Mark, Richard,
> 
> Class H insulation is 180 degree C.  Meaning at 180C, insulation will 
> last 10,000 hours(or half life of 10,000).  It depends where the 
> thermal sensor is located in the motor.  Cannot be in the armature, 
> that is hard to do because it rotates.  So, I'm guessing, it is in the 
> field coil.  Now it depends on the motor design, but the ones I worked 
> with years ago, would, on the one hour temp rise test, have the 
> armature reach rated temp first.  So there would be a differential 
> between the arm and field coil temps.
> The temp sensor would be selected to that field coil temp which 
> related to arm temp limit.  So the assumption would be that when your 
> temp sensor trips, the hottest part of the motor is at limit.
> 
> Having a 120C temp would indicate that you should back off or end the 
> trip soon, probably not stop at the side of the road and wait for the 
> motor to cool down.
> You might also add forced air cooling if you find the temp light 
> coming on often.
> 
> As for motor temperature in general, at the end of thermal rating 
> tests I used to run, it was not uncommon to have the outside of the 
> motor frame at 100C.  As for the brushes, we used to install 
> thermocouples in the brush by carefully drilling a hole in the top of 
> the brush, insulating the TC with epoxy and then insterting the TC 
> into the epoxy filled hole.  On short time based thermal runs, like 5 
> or 10 minutes or shorter, the brush would be the limiting temperature 
> for the motor.  This was allowed to reach
> 200 degree C as the internal brush temperature where no insulation is 
> present.  The outside of the brush would be lower where the pigtails 
> and springs are.
> 
> So, for a field coil temp limit, 120 to 140C sounds good to me.  On 
> the brush, I'd say 180C, hopefully that would be just peaks on the 
> brush, like at the top of a hill, and the average would be 40 or 50 
> lower.
> 
> My experience was back in the good old days, so I don't really know 
> how they design those new 

[EVDL] temp sensors on brushes

[Mark Grasser via EV]

I am finishing up the cooling ducting to the two motors for my Fiero project
and while in the dentist chair this afternoon remembered that I would like
to monitor the temperature in the motors.

 

I seem to remember one of the hottest points being the brushes themselves. I
am going to drill and tap about ¼” deep for 4-40 screw on the wire end of
the brush.  Concerns would be these: are the brushes a god point to read
temperature? Am I in danger of splitting the brush during this process? Will
the screw threads hold up? Would I be smarter attempting to epoxy the
thermistor to the brush instead? Oh, What temperatures should I expect?

 

Mark Grasser

 

 

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Offset Supercharging degradation w/ pack balancing

[Mark Grasser via EV]

To be simple it is not all about just the fact that all cells get the same 
amount of current, thus a BMS is not needed. If this were true then the 6 cells 
in a FLA would not go into horible unbalance as they do.

So to be simple, as I am, it also includes internal resistance, then by math, 
volts and watts. The differneces in internal resistance will directly affect 
the cells ability to accept charge. This will directly affect balance. Please 
understand that the internal resistance during discharge will not be the same 
as during recharge.

One for the non balancing side, if you only charge to 80% and only discharge to 
30% you might never need to balance. MANY of my boating customers do this as it 
fits their needs, they simply charge underway when needed. EVs are a different 
story. Here some of us want to charge as close to 100% as possible and 
discharge as low as they can. In this instance it is important to balance as 
going to far over voltage or going negative in discharge is obviously not a 
good thing.

To say that simply because the current is the same through the entire bank of 
batteries is proof thay the cells can not unbalance, is incorrect.

Mark Grasser


 



Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Offset Supercharging degradation w/ pack balancing

Hello Cor van de Water,
My name is Paul Dove, thus dovepa.  I don't know you either. Just knowing your 
name or where you work does not make me know you.
It is not really relevant who uses a BMS. People used to use x-rays to measure 
their shoe size and it had a viewer so you could see your feet x-rayed real 
time. They figured out this was dangerous eventually but non-the-less everyone 
was doing it.
Now, with everyone is doing it argument out of the way..
The CC/CV charging methodology was arrived at by experimentation. Researchers 
were trying to determine the method that would put the most capacity in the 
cell. They tried multiple CV values and recommend the value that put the most 
into the cell.
Actual capacity has to be calculated by current times time. It cannot be 
determined by voltage. The voltage set point is part of a procedure to maximize 
the energy in the cell. 

In series the current is the same through all the cells. A balancer will 
attempt to shunt part of this current off of the cell to let other cells come 
up to the CV value while keeping this cell from exceeding the CV value. In my 
opinion, having not analyzed every BMS out there, a BMS would need to shunt 
enough energy to keep the voltage from rising above this voltage set point or 
have the ability to command the charger to lower the current. 

So the balancer would have to hold cells individually at the CV level by 
reducing current into each cell independently.

Now, even if it can achieve this feat according to the manufacturers 
recommended cc/cv procedure this does not balance the cells. Ok, maybe it's a 
semantics issue on the word balanced. What is balanced? All cells at the same 
voltage? All cells at the same capacity? I think the goal is to have maximum 
capacity not balancing.
That aside, do you actually have more capacity? If so, how much more?
When you discharge the car will cut off when the lowest capacity cell reaches 
it's cutoff voltage so by holding it at the set point voltage while the others 
fill up didn't gain any pack capacity advantage sine you still cutoff based on 
the lowest capacity cell. You pack size is the size of your lowest or weakest 
cell. No way around that. 

In addition, the amount of energy put into the cell during the constant current 
part of the charge is less than 5%.
So on 70Ah cells we are talking 3 miles range. That's if you cut off when the 
first cell reaches the set point voltage. So if you took the current down to 
C/20 based on the lowest capacity cell you would mt likely loose no capacity or 
if I'm wrong possibly 1% or less than a mile range.
The whole concept of balancing comes from other battery technology such as Lead 
Acid cells where it makes much more sense. You want all the batteries to boil 
to get maximum capacity.
I have no problem with a BMS to monitor individual cell voltage an temperature 
and controlling charge based on this.  My arguments are against shunt balancer 
circuits.
Both their effectiveness and the necessity.

  From: Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
 Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 10:48 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Offset Supercharging degradation w/ pack balancing
   
Hello dovepa at bellsouth.net AKA via EV, I have no idea who you are - the 
message is not signed and your name is not showing from your email.
You can believe what you want about Lithiums, but think about that even the 
Chinese invest in a BMS on every Lithium battery pack that they ship, while 
they are known to cut corners and reduce cost, so there must be a reason

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: 

Re: [EVDL] $10k bounty on Tesla-S hacks entices tinkerers, aggravates Tesla

[Mark Grasser via EV]

On the flip side I remember a story about a boat owner that didn't like the
factory fuel system on his boat so redid it himself. Gassed up one day, boat
burned, disfigured his two daughters. He won in court against the boat
manufacturer.

Bring that here. A software genius modifies his Tesla, car somehow sticks in
WOT, smacks a concrete wall, kills his wife. HOW DARE Tesla allow me to make
changes that let this happen. Who do you think would win in a court with a
jury of his peers?

Mark Grasser 



On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 6:37 PM, Alan Arrison via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:
 I am surprised that auto makers haven't locked down their systems with 
 encryption.
 If they haven't yet they probably will if for no other reason than 
 liability issues.

What liability issues? There would be none. If I make a mechanical change to
my car now and it causes an injury or something the manufacturer is not
liable for it. The same is true with a software change. When I buy a car, I
get a title to it. It is mine to do with as I see fit, including doing
something that voids the warranty if I want.

It should be illegal for an auto manufacturer to lock me out of making
changes to any car I buy.

--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://www.levforum.com
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Hub motors are sprung, they are in the hub, which is sprung, as in sprung
weight.

 .

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 11:27 AM
To: Ben Goren; Willie2; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range
EV4the masses

Maybe they have short axles and aren't truly hub motors?

-- Original Message --
From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Willie2 wmckem...@gmail.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 18-May-15 8:24:54 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range
EV4the masses

On May 18, 2015, at 8:14 AM, Willie2 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

  The URL posted for the car indicates that the hub motor(s) are 
sprung.

Huh? How on Earth is _that_ supposed to work?

b
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-X Spied w/ a Tow Hitch AWD r:225mi (v)

[Mark Grasser via EV]

It just boggles my mind how these comments can be made while Knowing nothing 
about the engineering that has gone into these cars to make them able to tow. 
What gives any indication that they can't tow as well as any other car or for 
that matter that they will over heat? They don't have adequate cooling? I 
suggest that people that make accusations back them up with facts. Geese.

Mark Grasser




It is likely the Tesla cars can pull it just fine, but will probably overheat 
towing,  especially on hills.  Towing packages for trucks have all manner of 
extra cooling gear, for transmission, oil coolers, oversize radiators, and 
so on.  It is a simple application that is difficult in practice.

 
  In any case, don’t get your hopes up too high on a truly versatile 
  towing capacity because electric power isn’t similar to a 
  traditional engine’s twist.
 


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Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube

[Mark Grasser via EV]

I would suspect that sunlight on the display raises the current draw of the
display. This current draw is on the 5 volt regulator of the entire meter.
Being an inexpensive meter the 5 volt regulator is also the reference
voltage for the meter. Current goes up, reference voltage goes down.
Reference voltage goes down and the reading goes up. 



Sincerely,
Mark Grasser -
 

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water
via EV
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 7:22 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube

Electronic circuits (The silicon wafer that carries the transistors and
other circuitry) is affected in its operation by light. Similar to a solar
cell generating current when hit by photons, also a slice of silicon for a
transistor or other electronic component will start generating a small
current under light, so it is a sign that the actual chip of the meter,
which normally is potted in a black blob for this reason, is not completely
potted and is receiving enough light to be affected by the (stray) light
falling on it.
It is the electronics that is affected by light (photons), not the LCD or
the heat.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com


This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this
message is prohibited.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via
EV
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 3:33 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube

I suspect some sort of feedback via the LCD panel caused by sunlight.  Using
Ohm's law might shed some light...I don't know how though.  Lawrence Rhodes



 From: Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com
To: Lawrence Rhodes primobass...@sbcglobal.net; Electric Vehicle 
Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube
 


If it wasn't for the possibly coincidental sunlight, I would say it looks
like an electromechanical voltage regulator in action.  A regulator might go
as high as 14 and change, and when it stops charging the battery voltage
shows and is load dependent - not steady.


The change is kind of fast to be a thermal effect of the sunlight on
plastic (not very conductive).  Usually instrumentation amps for voltage are
not that susceptible to changes in ambient temperature.  How could be simply
the light intensity?  I don't have a feel for that.  You could mess around
with an ice pack or a bottle of chip freezer spray and see if the change
goes the other direction.





On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

Malfunctioning meter.: https://youtu.be/xNy8IOlRkII

This is the correct url.  Lawrence Rhodes

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A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
Warren Buffet


Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 Google Phone
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michael.e.r...@gmail.com






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Re: [EVDL] Damaged ADC FB1-4001A Motor

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Ted,
I am not so sure it would be a commutator bar. If it were you should have
worn brushes down by now. My guess would be more like a winding broke loose
and as rpms increase it moves out to hit the field shoes. If it were me I
would disassemble the motor and pull out the armature. You will see the
problem immediately. Either fix it or ship just the armature to be fixed,
not the whole motor.

Mark Grasser 




-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ted Lowe, FVEAA via
EV
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 11:34 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Damaged ADC FB1-4001A Motor

Hi EVers,

i have a 1992 S-10 conversion i've been driving for 14 years.  It has an ADC
FB1-4001A 9 motor.

Last year i made a mistake and over-spun the motor with the clutch
activated.  The motor made a big nasty mechanical sound and i thought i
would be walking home from there.  But the motor still works as long as 
i keep the RPMs down (perhaps below 2000).If i go above that RPM, 
the banging sound happen again.  i realize i'm driving 'on borrowed time'
and want to get the motor fixed/rebuilt.

So my questions are:

1) What is likely damaged inside?
2) What would be involved in getting it repaired?
3) What kind of parts and costs are likely involved?
4) Can this be a DIY project for a handy person?

Thank you!

Kind regards,
ted



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Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Yes, UL listing to sell something is not necessary. 

Back to inverters. Be careful buying non UL Asian inverters. A lot of them
do not have a neutral to ground tie. You will find instead that the ground
prong or green wire is actually tied to the center tap of the output and
that NEUTRAL is 60 volts from ground and that HOT is 60 volts from ground.
Some would say this is actually less deadly. I won't call it as to
contradict UL is, well not sanctioned? If you know that this is what you
have and properly deal with it, then fine.

Mark Grasser




-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Al Lumas via EV
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 2:03 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?

UL (Underwriter Laboratories) is an independent agency that was founded by
insurance underwriters who were losing money due to fires caused by home
electrical appliances It promoted itself using scare tactic ads on TV that
displayed TV sets catching fire and burning down homes.
Al Lumas

At 10:34 AM 10/1/2014, David Kerzel via EV wrote:
Electrical things do not have to be listed by someone like UL.  Some 
state and local governments may require UL (or something similar) as 
part of the fire and electrical code.  The reason manufactures use 
approval services like UL is liability.  Stores will often not sell 
things that are not listed because of liability concerns.  Getting 
something listed shows the product was properly designed and has been 
tested by a qualified group of independent engineers to verify it meets 
the appropriate safety levels.
When You connect to the grid then the power company has say in anything 
that can energies the power lines and they may require only listed 
devices.

David Kerzel
Modulsar EV Power LLC

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Robert 
Bruninga via EV
Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:52 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?

You EV experimenters must have some facts here...

Is it illegal to purchase, own or operate a non UL approved appliance?
(Which?) (How do I prove it is OK)...

   
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Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Jan,
I agree entirely but yes, it is for real. 

Keep in mind that when using an inverter the ground to neutral tie is not
present from the mains as you are disconnected from the mains. When the
inverter is connected to the home / appliances it becomes the source of the
relationship between gnd, neut, hot. We have tested numerous product and all
of the less expensive stuff has the center tap output. We needed to instruct
our manufacturers that the neutral / gnd tie has to be there, it is more
expensive to manufacture, not sure why. 

Mark  




-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jan Steinman via EV
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 6:06 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?

 From: Mark Grasser via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 
 Be careful buying non UL Asian inverters. A lot of them do not have a 
 neutral to ground tie. You will find instead that the ground prong or 
 green wire is actually tied to the center tap of the output and that 
 NEUTRAL is 60 volts from ground and that HOT is 60 volts from ground.

This is rather hard to understand.

It would be a clear violation of the electrical code, and would result in a
breaker trip if anything was plugged in that had ground tied to neutral,
which could very well happen. (Ground and neutral are supposed to be at the
same potential.)

 Entirely new ways of living are necessary, and if we don't adobt them
voluntarily, we or our children will eventually adopt them involuntarily,
and probably with great pain and difficulty in the process. -- Thom Hartmann
 Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 

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Re: [EVDL] Trailer type Range extenders

[Mark Grasser via EV]

 
http://imagebin.org/315432

Be warned, Chrome says this link has malware.

Mark Grasser








Yes, that's a kid's sandbox on wheels!  The shape reportedly did wonders for
the trailer's aerodynamics.  It also drew smiles from the TdS officials and
spectators.

A battery trailer allows you to have a small, light battery for your EV's
daily mission, with easily-added optional longer range when you need it.  
The obvious tradeoff is the awkward maneuvering you get with a trailer.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Twin 8 Coupler

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Not sure, made my own. Lots of time to get it true.

Sincerely,
Mark Grasser -
 


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Re: [EVDL] Twin 8 Coupler

[Mark Grasser via EV]

When I did mine I didn't have my lathe. Used my mill and rotary table and
did lots of passes, round and round. Is really smooth. Now I have a nice
lathe, could easily do an 8 inch chunk of aluminum. As far as the coupler,
taper locks are nice but instead I did a simple coupler, .0015 undersize.
Made everything just right ready to assemble. Heated the coupler in the
grill as hot as I could get it, guessing about 500 degrees. Grabbed it with
a pair of channel locks, slipped it all together and bolted it up. Worked
well. Not sure what I would have done if it cooled too soon and weren't all
the way on. Not sure what I will do to get it apart if needed. Might be what
the saws all is for. Hope not to need to find out.

Sincerely,
Mark Grasser -
DC POWER SOLUTIONS, LLC.
WWW.MARKGRASSER.COM
406 Harold Dow Hwy
   Suite #10
 Eliot M.E.  03903
   Phone: 207-438-0401
  Designed in the USA
  Assembled in the USA
  Marketed in the USA
 
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Roland via EV
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 6:18 PM
To: Bill Dennis; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Twin 8 Coupler

If the two motors are mounted on the same platform, then used a rigid
coupler that will provide a connection that perfectly aligned shafts.  Use a
taper lock shaft coupler. 

Use a motor clamp shell with a platform base or build your own motor
mounting.  Position two motors on a thick aluminum mounting plate not less
than 3/4 inch thick and not less than grade 80 hardness or use 1/2 inch
chrome moly steel plate.  Do not bolt the motors in place yet.  Couple the
motors together and position the motors on the base plate.  

Use a feeler gage to see is the motor platforms are touching the base plate.
Check any gaps with a feeler gage and adjust the motor plate by loosening
and re-tightening the mounting bolts. 

All my shaft connections are by the Dodge Power Transmission Company or call
Dodge PT components.  Many machine shops handle Dodge PT or Browning
components. 

See http://www.dodge-pt.comhttp://www.dodge-pt.com/ 

Roland 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Dennis via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org 
  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion Listmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org 
  Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 2:08 PM
  Subject: [EVDL] Twin 8 Coupler


  Is there a company that makes a coupler for mechanically connecting two
ADC 8-inch motors end-to-end?

  Thanks,

  Bill
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Re: [EVDL] winter parking brake

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Help me here. I thought that if you shorted across the motor cables it would
not move, no?
Mark Grasser

as well as the parking pawl that drops into the teeth on the flywheel IIRC

The MES drive has an output to activate a parking pawl when in electronic
park.  I never implemented it but I thought it was a great idea.


On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:47 AM, John Lussmyer via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 Probably Wheel Chocks would be the next choice.

 On Fri Jun 20 08:37:37 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
 I searched but didn't find a similar question.  If one exists and I
 missed it
 please redirect me.
 
 My question concerns manual transmissions and parking in the winter.  
 We don't use a parking brake in the winter here since the pads and 
 shoes
 freeze
 to metal parts.  With no engine compression to hold the vehicle what 
 have others done?


 --

 Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck!
 http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250

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Re: [EVDL] FW: Vibration

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Where is it from? 

First consider the speed of the vibration. If it is wheel or axle related it 
will be a slow vibration. If it is driveline it will be three to four times 
faster. In the realm of scary. To understand what slow is take the wheel 
weights off of one of your four wheels and go for a ride. You will experience 
what a wheel or axle vibration is like. Put the wheel weights back on where you 
found them, it will be fine, tire balancing isn't rocket science.

The fact that the amplitude of vibration changes from load to no load says 
something is loose. I would look at how the yoke is anchored to the motor 
shaft. This needs to be a snug or even press fit. If you can giggle the yoke on 
the shaft or if you can giggle any other part of the drive train this is a 
problem to look at. Everything in the drive line needs to be snug and have no 
movement about it in relationship the next part it is connected to.

Mark Grasser






-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Terry Forfa via EV
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 5:44 PM
To: Pestka, Dennis J; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] FW: Vibration

Dennis,

Maybe loose wheel bearings? Check the Chilton Vibration Checklist link
below:

http://www.procarcare.com/includes/content/resourcecenter/encyclopedia/ch04/4fig15.html

Terry


--
From: Pestka, Dennis J via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 2:55 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] FW:  Vibration

 The shocks are new, but I'll take a look.

 I don't know if this means anything, but let me repeat one thing.
 Under acceleration with torque on the motor and drivetrain the 
 vibration is not too bad. Starts showing up ~ 55 mph.
 When you let off the accelerator at that speed, the vibration gets 
 very bad and gradually goes away as the vehicle slows down to ~ 40 mph.

 Thanks;
 Dennis



 -Original Message-
 From: Jay Summet [mailto:j...@summet.com]
 Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 1:02 PM
 To: Pestka, Dennis J; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Vibration

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 One thing to check is your non-drivetrain elements, although if you 
 get the vibration without moving in neutral it's probably in the drivetrain.

 The reason I mention it is that our car had developed a vibration at 
 the
 58-60 MPH speed range, and it turned out to be rear shocks that needed 
 replacing.

 Jay


 On 06/09/2014 07:49 AM, Pestka, Dennis J via EV wrote:
 Removed the drive shaft, had new u-joints installed, and had it 
 balanced. No change.

 I’m guessing it’s either the angle on the motor/transmission in 
 relation to the rear end, or I may have to pull the 
 motor/flywheel/pressure plate/clutch assembly and have it balanced.
 When I sit in neutral and rev to ~ 3000rpm, I’m getting some 
 vibration, although it doesn’t seem to be as bad as when I drive. 
 Here again I feel it at ~ 50 mph and up, but it is really noticeable 
 when I let off the accelerator at those speeds.

 Thanks; Dennis Elsberry, MO http://www.evalbum.com/1366
 http://evalbum.com/3715





 From: Daniel Busby [mailto:busby.dan...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 
 27, 2014 1:52 PM To: Pestka, Dennis J; Electric Vehicle Discussion 
 List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Vibration

 I'd try balancing your driveshaft.  It's relatively inexpensive once 
 you get it out.  A local place in LA costs less than $70.

 My '64 Spitfire definitely has a wobbly shaft, but I haven't made the 
 time to pull it out and get it balanced yet.  I stick to surface 
 streets in the meantime.

 On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Pestka, Dennis J via EV 
 ev@lists.evdl.orgmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Didn't know if 
 anyone had any clues to a problem I'm having.

 Since I have my new Lithium pack, I've getting my 65 Datsun out on 
 the highway and up to ~ 60 mph. Never did much of that before. When 
 accelerating, I don't experience it, but when I let off the 
 accelerator, I'm getting a pretty good vibration. Step back on the 
 accelerator, and it goes away. Don't seem to notice it at 45mph and 
 lower, but when going 55 - 60 mph. I just put new tires on it, and 
 have had the front end aligned.

 Any suggestions ?


 Thanks; Dennis Elsberry, MO http://www.evalbum.com/1366
 http://evalbum.com/3715


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Re: [EVDL] don't buy a fiat

[Mark Grasser via EV]

Blue,
I don't write often but will take a moment.

The only reason we do everything with petrol is because that is what our paid 
for government wants us to have. If back it the beginning (early 119003) the 
Rockefellers would have had their money in pizzaballs then we would have been 
powering everything today with pizzaballs so to say that oil is oil because it 
is oil and we need it, well I have to disagree. If the minds and industries 
would literally focus on THE SUN we would be able to eliminate the use of oil 
and stop polluting the only place we have to live, THE EARTH.

As to how expensive EVs from the automakers are. It is not because they are 
expensive to build. You of all people know that. They are simply expensive 
because they want them to be. I would use the excuse of engineering time needs 
to be recouped but then the decision to stop building them would make no sense. 
It is simply because they still want to sell only ICE powered vehicles. This 
mindset is still their because the financial powers are backed by oil. This 
only works for them if the distribution structure stays in place. Once you 
start having a society that can fill their car from a plug in the garage you 
begin to take from the profitability of the delivery infrastructure that now 
exists. INCIDENTLY, this is also why they want the fuel cell instead of the 
electric. It keeps the delivery infrastructure intact. 

I sign my Emails,
Mark Grasser

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Electric Blue auto 
convertions via EV
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 7:56 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] dont buy a fiat

Yes I agree, the auto makes are going to loss money every time they make a 
electric car. that's just how it works, the majority public just doesn't want 
them  There a pop  fad,  . Maybe in 25 years when all the gear hea ds are 
dead , but it will always be a money losing thing for auto companies. They 
could se ll more 
 if they cut the price because there all way over priced any way and not worth 
1/4 of what there selling for. I think Tesla will only have about 5 to 10 yea 
rs left and I own stock in the company. Nissan is subsidized  for low sales by 
the govt, They haven't anything to bitch about
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