Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 12:07 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: I like your use of the word calumny. An endless clash of civilization? Naw! But we do need to defend ourselves against the jihadi, and be able to retaliate, Piling more revenge killing on top of the pyramid of violence is your solution? Of course it is reasonable that we defend ourselves in extraordinary situation, but when the state-of-exception becomes the norm, we have a problem, if we value rule of law. Minimizing harm, furthering economic, political, educational developments that diminish the capacity of parts of the world to become breeding grounds for radicalism is more effective than the exclusive short term fix of merely retaliating. which is something you are totally against and have stated this, repeatedly. You are not anti-war, merely anti-US wars. I am anti-war, no matter the war, still believe in self-defense and make up my own mind as to its efficacy, as merely retaliation as principle, doesn't convince me as much as it seems to convince you. If you were a true pacifist, you would logically be anti-war, across the board. You are not against Islamist attacks in the west, because you believe they are justified. This is where you cross the line comrade. Your true war is against middle America. Your true war is against middle earth with all its liberals. As for solutions, you ain't interested, to put it mildly. We have ample supply of your solutions on the list and as German, I am automatically skeptical of people offering blanket solutions and generalizations. There are always those kinds of people and always the kinds of people that follow them. On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 12:14 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Well, like I mentioned earlier, you always gripe about any US military action, and say nothing about other nations, and groups, agressions. This means, like the old Vietnam protestors, you were against the Vietnam war (making Breshnev smile) but these self same people had zero to say or do, regarding the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Or, more currently, nothing to say about Islamic wars and aggressions. So, this incongruence doesn't wash. This is picking sides, which is something I openly do, and you don't like. This is know as life. Oh, you mean like you complaining about your powerlessness and then doing nothing about the situation that you feel you must rail against? Picking sides and doing nothing about it other than posting obsessively? I'm not sure, Life is perhaps a bit more than this. On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 12:19 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Yeah, yeah, we can both agree the French and British sucked. If you want to make them accurately, uncomfortable, mention the Belgian rubber empire in the 19th century. Their king, a labor reformer at home, over saw the murder of maybe 8 million people over 20 years, on rubber plantations. Human history is replete with slaughter. Now that things are a bit more civilized, it'd be a tragedy for the west to lose out to Islamist savages-which is what they are, just like we were, not so long ago. You were savage once that you now condemn? Were you a noble savage or more straightforward one? We have people of all these nationalities and of different faiths on this list. If you have a problem with that, take it up with them instead of creepily promising solutions. PGC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Manifesto Rex
On 26 Jan 2015, at 00:02, Kim Jones wrote: On 26 Jan 2015, at 7:43 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I study the consequences of a common assumption, and assuming a universal person is natural in this context. Here is the big sell, then. You have to somehow demonstrate to the human race that we are a universal person. I appreciate your enthusiasm, Kim. But here we are close to a problem. Why would I do that? If there is only one person, it is enough to convince that person, or to see that such a person is born conceiving that thing. We are close to the theological trap. That is something which I have better understood thanks to the salvia experience: illumination has a life spoiling effect: like reading the end of the novel or thriller. But then, of course that is the base of the whole Platonism: guessing the reality behind the appearances. It is a contemplative things, quite opposite to the self-extending habit of the singular first person who believes being different, and who will tend to exploits all the illusion. Best of British, old son! The math alone maybe will convince another mathematician, but without your guiding values, they will fail to see the big picture we are sketching here, and instead will prefer to slap you down for it! Yes, they don't listen to the guy who listen already to the machine. Things will take time, the humans does not recognize themselves in the other human, so for PA and cuttlefishes, that will take some time. The concept of the Universal Person needs to be hurled at humanity from the rooftops and from the pulpit and the schoolroom. Beethoven and Schiller tried in the 19th century. Jesus may have had something or other to say about it but nobody much appears to have understood. But I thought it was more or less obvious, that the arithmetical hypostases provides a general theory of the person, which is, relatively to truth a discursive reasoner (G and G*), a soul (S4Grz), an observer (Z*, Z1* with the arithmetical emulation of computationalism), etc. A general theory of person defined implicitly a universal person, which is a sort of universal baby, which lives in us and all arithmetical incarnation of our recursively enumerable extensions. People must understand by themselves. The choice is between some amount of work in the math, or 4 minutes of salvia. Although you can see on youtube that surviving a near crash plane landing can help too, and more generally all so called mystical experiences. Plotinus: We ought not even to say that he will see, but he will be that which he sees, if indeed it is possible any longer to distinguish between seer and seen, and not boldly to affirm that the two are one. If comp is finally the better view of theology then it needs to be understood and acted upon. What if it is ethically better, and then refute (too much white rabbits, some mysterious primary matter does exist, Aristotle comes back! I am just an humble scientist, Kim. Yes, it seems to me that the evidences are going to send us back to Plato, but we still don't know, and probably will never know for sure. But it fits about everything together in a simple theory, and it might helps to develop ethic working for some millenaries. For once we are looking at the ways in which persons are the same rather than minutely examine the ways in which persons differ. In theology, I only study what is common in all known theologies. But people fear to lose their identity, they are unaware that the math shows that the rabbit hole run very deep, and you can't loose your identiy. By the Galois correspondence between syntax and semantics, the more closer to the universal baby you are, the more possible identities you can develop. The Universal Person sees no point in war, murder, prohibition and the like because it no longer merely applies to others; Well, you mean the universal person which reminds itself to be the universal person. We know what do the universal person which forgets that, and believe she is mister X, living in new-Y, in country Z, on the planet P, in the solar system S in the galaxy M-W. it applies to the self. You don't disallow others from doing what you allow yourself - this is not libertarianism; this is self- referentially correct behaviour of a consistent machine that knows that it cannot prove with arrogant certainty its own consistency. You even become compassionate toward the arrogant. (They usually don't like that when they discover it). Also, if the conception of that idea was more widespread; it might limit the attempt of some people to annoy or kill other people, given that they would be more likely able to suspect being, maybe, those other people when put in a different general situation. This then, is our only hope to enter into the experience of another in
Re: Manifesto Rex
On 26 Jan 2015, at 01:52, meekerdb wrote: On 1/25/2015 3:02 PM, Kim Jones wrote: Here is the big sell, then. You have to somehow demonstrate to the human race that we are a universal person. Best of British, old son! The math alone maybe will convince another mathematician, but without your guiding values, they will fail to see the big picture we are sketching here, and instead will prefer to slap you down for it! But that's exactly the problem. There are no guiding values in the math. Bruno holds values I share and so he reads into his theory nice ideas I approve of - but I don't think they are entailed by the math, or the logic, and I suspect they can't be. Some can, if you agree with some definition, which is always need when we apply a theory. If you can't even derive physics and Darwinian evolution, Well, the point is that we must (assuming mechanism), and the proposition theology, including the propositional physics, is already extracted, even if not yet exploited, as the math are not that simple, and the theorem p^rovers should be optimized, etc. how can you hope to derive anti-abortion laws or polygamy or legalizing heroin? You can derive that such choice concerns only you and your possible shaman that you choose, and that nobody can enforce you without serious evidence of possibility of harm. People agree so much that indeed all medication illegality have been shown today based on non genuine evidences but only simple lies and error of logic and statistics. Brent “How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in your life you will have been all of these.” --- George Washington Carver No problem with this. Bruno -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?
On 26 Jan 2015, at 04:56, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: The very simple operation of defining the square root of two generates an -- (as far as we know infinitely extending) – number stream that is characterized by a high degree of randomness. That would only be pseudorandom. Algorithms are deterministic, and random means a event without a cause. There exists a short algorithm that can produce the decimal value of digits the square root of 2 to any desired degree of precision so it can't be random. PI also has such a algorithm, and so does e and so does any real number you can name, so none of them can be random. However Turing proved in 1936 that the vast majority of numbers on the real number line have no name and no algorithm can produce them, or rather the only algorithm to produce a true random number would be just as long as the as the number itself; for example the only algorithm that could produce a sequence of truly random digits would just be a list of those digits. That's why no program can compress random white noise. To produce true randomness you'd need a physical random number generator, something involving radioactive decay or photons of light hitting a polarizing filter would do the trick. Turing also proved that while the computable numbers are denumerable, that is countably infinite, the non-computable (random) numbers belong to the next higher class of infinity.So if you had a dart with a infinitely sharp point and threw it at the real number line there is a 100% chance it will hit a non-computable number and a 0% chance it will hit a computable number. By the way I think Alan Turing was one of the giants of 20th century science, the current movie The Imitation Game is about his non- scientific but very important work breaking the German Enigma Code during the second world war. I loved the movie. Now say you are an observer from a parallel universe who somehow gets akind of sample set through some absurd imaginary portal that deluges the poor fellow with reams upon reams of seemingly random data By seemingly random I assume you mean it came from a algorithm. Or by iterated self-duplication or self-superposition. We cannot generate algorithmically a random sequence, but we can generate algorithmically all random sequence, thanks to the fact that the in the sequence 0 and 1 we already generate the correct digit 0 of the 2^aleph_zero random sequences beginning by 0, and the correct digit 1 of the other half. Then we proceed, 00 01 and 10 11 and we continue in that way, we generate in that way all finite initial segments of all sequences. If we make a product of this with the body of a person, the vast majority of those person are confronted to a random stream, indeed, most of them algorithmically incompressible. That is why the Universal Dovetailer generates not only the behavior of all programs on all finite inputs, but also on the infinite input streams. Now, no programs can individuate itself in one computational histories, it belongs, below its substitution level, to a continuum of computations (with and without Oracles (in Turing sense), and that is why we have to justify physics in term of statistics on infinities of computations. The miracle is that incompleteness provides the answer why there is some physical winner, and that his trick consists on adding a phase allowing the subtraction of the white rabbits. Bruno each one of them, let’s give it a data dimension say a KB, MB, GB doesn’t matter, but constrained to a given chunk or window size. These inter-dimensional data packets unfortunately arrive to our observer in a scrambled order How is the data stream scrambled, by another algorithm or a physical random process such as radioactivity decay? The data deluge arrives for eternity… but will the recipient ever be able to derive the function from the data. In other words will the recipient ever be able to predict what the next digit will be? If you had a large enough sample and true randomness was not used then you could at least in theory predict what the next digit will be ( assuming you don't run up against the limit on the number of computations the universe says can be performed in it), but if true physical randomness was involved at any point then it would be hopeless. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?
On 26 Jan 2015, at 06:05, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote: From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] What you're describing sounds a little bit like cellular automata, which start with a single cell (maybe the existent entity called nothing?) and a rule and out of that comes emergent stuff possibly like our universe. But, anyways I once again agree with what you're saying that the emergent properties of nothing can be pretty amazing, IMHO. Yes cellular automata, but could also be a simple program with an endless – highly non-compressible -- output running on an infinite tape. The point I was pointing at is that out of simple initial conditions, even potentially no conditions hypothetically, an infinitely complex – non-compressible – resulting data stream can be produced. If one is in the position of having only a non-privileged and partial view of this infinite stream it could very much seem nearly impossible to ever hope to discover the cause, by working back from the resulting effect. Whereas if one had a privileged outside view of the system and was able to observe the program (or automata) in operation it would be clear, concise and possible to defined (with a finite bounded definition)) some program that will exactly produce the resultant unbounded set. Sometimes perspective and point of view is everything. You can say that. Assuming computationalism, you can start with 0, 1, 2, 3, ... and accept as unique laws the law of addition, and the laws of multiplication above enough classical logic. From that you can extracts the points of view, and derive everything apparent and non apparent from the statistics on the point of views, and their main invariant, consciousness being one of them for the first person points of view, a typically true but non 3p justifiable, nor 3p definable (like arithmetical truth itself, by Tarski). Bruno -Chris On Sunday, January 25, 2015 at 2:57:29 AM UTC-5, cdemorsella wrote: From: everyth...@googlegroups.com [mailto:everyth...@googlegroups.com] Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 9:52 PM To: everyth...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? Roger: It's possible that what we see as existing is a simulation in some other computer. But, even if we are a simulation, the simulation that is us exists as does the computer and the code we're a simulation in. My thinking is aimed at trying to figure out there are existent entities, whether we call them simulations, singular arithmetic computations/propositions, or whatever, instead of there not being existent entities. Existence and non-existence can be viewed as different perspectives on nothing…. existence and non-existence are emergent and understood in dialectic opposition to each other… they arise out of each other, and are defined in terms of each other. -Chris Chris, I totally agree and that's what I've been trying to get at in my thinking and at the website. Well put! Well… it does seem we agree about nothing J Have been pondering something I read a while ago when I began reading Russell’s book (online first and now in the much better form of a real book) It is this bit of information about information. A very simple mathematical operation that can be described – defined by a simple recursive program produces an unending stream of numbers defining it to an ever more precise numeric precision… to infinity. Some such numbers say 10/3 are highly ordered and repetitive though never ending. The example Russell gave is an unending numeric stream that is however different from – say 10/3 -- in that the resulting stream of numbers that it outputs is highly chaotic and unordered very much resembling the number streams generated by the best random algorithms. The very simple operation of defining the square root of two generates an -- (as far as we know infinitely extending) – number stream that is characterized by a high degree of randomness. Now say you are an observer from a parallel universe who somehow gets a kind of sample set through some absurd imaginary portal that deluges the poor fellow with reams upon reams of seemingly random data – each one of them, let’s give it a data dimension say a KB, MB, GB doesn’t matter, but constrained to a given chunk or window size. These inter-dimensional data packets unfortunately arrive to our observer in a scrambled order…. The data deluge arrives for eternity… but will the recipient ever be able to derive the function from the data. I doubt a highly random data stream – generated by a very simple operation – could be re-ordered. What could those observers deduce from this endless series of out of order packets containing numeric data of a given range of degrees of precision in the infinite stream resulting
Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 8:53 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Trolling? Applied to your posts that is high praise as some trolls might feel insulted. I respect their feelings in a free internet ;-) You don't provoke or inflame, you're just often off-topic without humor + repetitive, and you think repeating material that Rush etc. wouldn't even run with, is somehow going to hammer something home with the few people that read/participate. And you are the one with the accusations and epithets? I was thinking you like to do preemptive accusations of trolling, while trolling. As far as knowing you, I mean if the foo shits, wear it. You fit the pattern, the language that you choose to use, etc. The Michael Moore mentality, and method. It is what it is, and further analysis is not necessary. But, its not about you or I, but it is about surviving the Islamist onslaught that seems to be gathering. No, that is not what this list pursues. Inform yourself, and post elsewhere if that is your objective. Also, what does saving us from Islamist onslaught have to do with your transcendence objective stated in the other post? You want to help us survive? Then pay or volunteer to maintain the list, help people in zones where radicalism you feel so threatened about is a danger; provide them with food, shelter, education etc. PGC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
Lots of people fought in the wars of the US, and do not have the attitude, opinions, and beliefs that you own. I know these people, some family members, who are in the marines and army infantry and have lost friends, and they don't see things as you do. Vietnam was quite a while ago and now we have an all volunteer army, since 1973. When asked by me, these people seemed to be even more aggressive than I. I would also say since the days of the draft, which were the soldiers of your experience, later generations of military are there by choice. Being anti-American is not the same thing as anti-war. The people whom I have spoken, who have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, with would take umbrage at your statements. The self righteousness thing, also an earmark of socialists, marxists, so-called antiwar, communists, is unimpressive at best, demagogic, most likely. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Jan 26, 2015 1:37 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 3:15 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Well, like I mentioned earlier, you always gripe about any US military action, and say nothing about other nations, and groups, agressions. This means, like the old Vietnam protestors, you were against the Vietnam war (making Breshnev smile) but these self same people had zero to say or do, regarding the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Or, more currently, nothing to say about Islamic wars and aggressions. So, this incongruence doesn't wash. This is picking sides, which is something I openly do, and you don't like. This is know as life. I lived in the fucking Vietnam war you fucking coward, and have lived in other regions of conflict as well, you have no idea what war is because all you have ever experienced of war is you couch potato blood lust for more war on your television screen. There is nothing uglier and more pathetic in the universe than a loud mouthed war demanding coward. Those who have actually seen war and know what war is are not nearly as enthusiastic for it as coddled punks like you Mitch. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 8:57 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 4:52 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Just stop defending the indefensible islamists and refrain from making excuses for them. They are all adults and can speak for themselves. They believe what the believe, and it is neither my fault, nor even yours. The world is now slowly waking up to what is occuring, even to this day, the Japanese. I am sorry that disagreeing with your holy self is considered trolling. But thats what makes ball games. Deal with it. By all means disagree with me, but when you begin to suggest I am a traitor because I disagree with your insane desire for a global war you have crossed a line -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 07:22 PM Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 3:46 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? No, n-n-n-ooo! Bwah hah hah! Ranting, isn't reasoning, but it obviously satisfies you. My mission, as far as this mailing list goes, generally is to gain information on the possibilities of human transcendence. I am sort of focused on the attainment of the Singularity which depending on how things come about, if they even do? To give this possibility a chance. It will never have a chance if communists, like yourself, dominate in politics, academia, and the media. Your side empowers the Jihadists and because they fit into your ideology as victims, ignore what they do and say, in real life. In fact, your team really wants the jihadists to eliminate your common enemy, America, the middle class, free thinkers, religious conservatives, and anyone else who doesn't tow the party line, basically the same assholes who turned a blind eye to Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. When the Stalin-Hitler Pact of Steel was signed (1939-41), your side, worldwide, ceased its criticism of the Nazis,
Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
Trolling? And you are the one with the accusations and epithets? I was thinking you like to do preemptive accusations of trolling, while trolling. As far as knowing you, I mean if the foo shits, wear it. You fit the pattern, the language that you choose to use, etc. The Michael Moore mentality, and method. It is what it is, and further analysis is not necessary. But, its not about you or I, but it is about surviving the Islamist onslaught that seems to be gathering. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Jan 26, 2015 1:32 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] I like your use of the word calumny. An endless clash of civilization? Naw! But we do need to defend ourselves against the jihadi, and be able to retaliate, which is something you are totally against and have stated this, repeatedly. You are not anti-war, merely anti-US wars. If you were a true pacifist, you would logically be anti-war, across the board. You are not against Islamist attacks in the west, because you believe they are justified. This is where you cross the line comrade. Your true war is against middle America. As for solutions, you ain't interested, to put it mildly. You are seemingly very keen to be the agit-prop on this mailing list to cavil about anyone not following the party line. So go ahead, troll away! You have a penchant for telling other people what they are… do you just pull this crap straight out of your ass or what? You don’t know me, idiot troll, and yet you continuously define me saying I am this and I am that. You are an arrogant and obnoxious bore who just wants to argue… please go away troll. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 8:55 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 4:40 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Well you make these declarative statements regarding what you feel is fit for this country, with your own list of who is naughty and nice, and yourself as chief judge of who is to be included, and who is to be cast out. This is so much like extreme Christian fundamentalists and your beloved, Islamists, that I wonder how drawn you might have been to tyranical ideologies. This, would explain a lot. It may come as a surprise to you but in a democratic system people have differences of opinion and do not always agree on policy. However when a yahoo like you begins to slander anyone who opposes their policy by accusing them of supporting the enemy – e.g. of committing treasonous acts – you have left the big tent of democratic debate and have instead chosen to support totalitarianism. Your support of the imposition of a totalitarian system – to crush dissent and a diversity of opinions -- makes you a self-declared enemy of the republic. It is by your actions and by your calumny of anyone who dares to disagree with your fanatical advocacy for an endless war that you define yourself as adhering to an extremist totalitarian political ideology. Crushing dissent is not the way of democracy; it is the preference of totalitarians the world over (and it does not matter much what philosophy they putatively espouse, it is by their actions and kind of argument that they can be recognized. You share more with ISIS and the world view of hatred that drives them than you do with the ideals of the Age of Enlightenment that are enshrined in the US constitution and recognized as being the founding principles upon which our republic is based. I have as little love of the Islamists as I have for you Mitch… you are cut from the same cloth. Both you and ISIS espouse totalitarian solutions. You are far more like them than you may realize. You hate them, but like ISIS, you seek to impose a totalitarian monolithic order in order to mount a clash of civilizations endless war. You are just like the psychopath ISIS thugs and criminals in this crucial sense. You are an enemy of our Republic because you choose to subvert the ideals upon which it is based. Instead I support our Constitution and the Republic it is the basis for. This is the basic difference between what you believe and what I believe. I fully expect you to continue with your calumny and call me all manner of things that I am not… for you to continue to try to insinuate that I some kind of traitor who supports terrorist groups (who you darkly suggest will be dealt with once your side
RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] I like your use of the word calumny. An endless clash of civilization? Naw! But we do need to defend ourselves against the jihadi, and be able to retaliate, which is something you are totally against and have stated this, repeatedly. You are not anti-war, merely anti-US wars. If you were a true pacifist, you would logically be anti-war, across the board. You are not against Islamist attacks in the west, because you believe they are justified. This is where you cross the line comrade. Your true war is against middle America. As for solutions, you ain't interested, to put it mildly. You are seemingly very keen to be the agit-prop on this mailing list to cavil about anyone not following the party line. So go ahead, troll away! You have a penchant for telling other people what they are… do you just pull this crap straight out of your ass or what? You don’t know me, idiot troll, and yet you continuously define me saying I am this and I am that. You are an arrogant and obnoxious bore who just wants to argue… please go away troll. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 8:55 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com? ] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 4:40 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Well you make these declarative statements regarding what you feel is fit for this country, with your own list of who is naughty and nice, and yourself as chief judge of who is to be included, and who is to be cast out. This is so much like extreme Christian fundamentalists and your beloved, Islamists, that I wonder how drawn you might have been to tyranical ideologies. This, would explain a lot. It may come as a surprise to you but in a democratic system people have differences of opinion and do not always agree on policy. However when a yahoo like you begins to slander anyone who opposes their policy by accusing them of supporting the enemy – e.g. of committing treasonous acts – you have left the big tent of democratic debate and have instead chosen to support totalitarianism. Your support of the imposition of a totalitarian system – to crush dissent and a diversity of opinions -- makes you a self-declared enemy of the republic. It is by your actions and by your calumny of anyone who dares to disagree with your fanatical advocacy for an endless war that you define yourself as adhering to an extremist totalitarian political ideology. Crushing dissent is not the way of democracy; it is the preference of totalitarians the world over (and it does not matter much what philosophy they putatively espouse, it is by their actions and kind of argument that they can be recognized. You share more with ISIS and the world view of hatred that drives them than you do with the ideals of the Age of Enlightenment that are enshrined in the US constitution and recognized as being the founding principles upon which our republic is based. I have as little love of the Islamists as I have for you Mitch… you are cut from the same cloth. Both you and ISIS espouse totalitarian solutions. You are far more like them than you may realize. You hate them, but like ISIS, you seek to impose a totalitarian monolithic order in order to mount a clash of civilizations endless war. You are just like the psychopath ISIS thugs and criminals in this crucial sense. You are an enemy of our Republic because you choose to subvert the ideals upon which it is based. Instead I support our Constitution and the Republic it is the basis for. This is the basic difference between what you believe and what I believe. I fully expect you to continue with your calumny and call me all manner of things that I am not… for you to continue to try to insinuate that I some kind of traitor who supports terrorist groups (who you darkly suggest will be dealt with once your side sweeps to power) This continued and long standing behavior of yours Mitch, is why I view you as an enemy of our Republic and of the Constitution upon which it is based. I am here and I am not going anywhere, and I will not let you intimidate me into silence. -Chris -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 07:21 PM Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com? ] Sent: Sunday,
RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 3:15 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Well, like I mentioned earlier, you always gripe about any US military action, and say nothing about other nations, and groups, agressions. This means, like the old Vietnam protestors, you were against the Vietnam war (making Breshnev smile) but these self same people had zero to say or do, regarding the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Or, more currently, nothing to say about Islamic wars and aggressions. So, this incongruence doesn't wash. This is picking sides, which is something I openly do, and you don't like. This is know as life. I lived in the fucking Vietnam war you fucking coward, and have lived in other regions of conflict as well, you have no idea what war is because all you have ever experienced of war is you couch potato blood lust for more war on your television screen. There is nothing uglier and more pathetic in the universe than a loud mouthed war demanding coward. Those who have actually seen war and know what war is are not nearly as enthusiastic for it as coddled punks like you Mitch. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 8:57 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com? ] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 4:52 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Just stop defending the indefensible islamists and refrain from making excuses for them. They are all adults and can speak for themselves. They believe what the believe, and it is neither my fault, nor even yours. The world is now slowly waking up to what is occuring, even to this day, the Japanese. I am sorry that disagreeing with your holy self is considered trolling. But thats what makes ball games. Deal with it. By all means disagree with me, but when you begin to suggest I am a traitor because I disagree with your insane desire for a global war you have crossed a line -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 07:22 PM Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com? ] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 3:46 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? No, n-n-n-ooo! Bwah hah hah! Ranting, isn't reasoning, but it obviously satisfies you. My mission, as far as this mailing list goes, generally is to gain information on the possibilities of human transcendence. I am sort of focused on the attainment of the Singularity which depending on how things come about, if they even do? To give this possibility a chance. It will never have a chance if communists, like yourself, dominate in politics, academia, and the media. Your side empowers the Jihadists and because they fit into your ideology as victims, ignore what they do and say, in real life. In fact, your team really wants the jihadists to eliminate your common enemy, America, the middle class, free thinkers, religious conservatives, and anyone else who doesn't tow the party line, basically the same assholes who turned a blind eye to Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. When the Stalin-Hitler Pact of Steel was signed (1939-41), your side, worldwide, ceased its criticism of the Nazis, so as to align itself with Stalin. Woody Guthrie, for example, withdrew a song about Adolf that he had sung in 1938. This essentially is your side, your team, and the Jihadists are someone you sympathize with. Your side is killing off hope for any human future. This is sad for the whole world. You are simply another fanatic who knows what you feel, so thanks for the polarization. My side? Come on give it a rest troll. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 6:06 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com? ] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 2:17 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Brent, the selectivity of his outrage typifies who he blames who whom he hates. Its
Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
It's just that decided to oppose your love affair to get us to submit to Sharia. On the likelihood of an average American or French person dying of jihadist assassination, versus a lightning strike, I tend to agree with you statistically, but fear the odds are changing in my favor. I am more alarmed by the active intimidation that is now manifest in Europe today. We have heard about the French and the Banilues, but the same is even more extent in Malmo, Sweden for example, which is usually not focused on. The police there no go zones are especially profound in Sweden, then France or the Netherlands, and I am not stating that there are not danger zones in either nation. Comparatively, I tend to be more welcoming to the US of Mexican citizens, working here and becoming Americans, in time. Why? Because they are open to American culture. With Islam you get Sharia, and with sharia, we get aggression. To deny that the Islamists are not succeeding is to deny reality. Lastly, I sort of don't care what you feel about me or how much you like to troll. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Jan 26, 2015 4:21 pm Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? As one-who-has-never-seen-war your braying bloodlust and your single minded demands for yet another round of shock and awe on CNN are frankly pathological there is something uniquely disgusting about loudmouthed punks such as you, demanding other peoples blood to be spilled. A US citizen or French citizen has more chance of dying from a lightening strike or a bee sting than from an act of terrorism; it is the actuary reality. Yet you demand this miniscule actual threat be responded to by forcing the entire world into a total war, which will certainly kill a whole lot more Americans (and people of other nationalities) than the ISIS ever will in a million years. I vocally oppose your bloody minded insanity and as a result you continuously vilify me, accusing me of consorting with the enemy (a capital offense) and other unfounded, calumnious lies. You are an offensive loser who obviously has nothing better to do than slander other people... how about you get a life Mitch? From: spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 12:04 PM Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Lots of people fought in the wars of the US, and do not have the attitude, opinions, and beliefs that you own. I know these people, some family members, who are in the marines and army infantry and have lost friends, and they don't see things as you do. Vietnam was quite a while ago and now we have an all volunteer army, since 1973. When asked by me, these people seemed to be even more aggressive than I. I would also say since the days of the draft, which were the soldiers of your experience, later generations of military are there by choice. Being anti-American is not the same thing as anti-war. The people whom I have spoken, who have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, with would take umbrage at your statements. The self righteousness thing, also an earmark of socialists, marxists, so-called antiwar, communists, is unimpressive at best, demagogic, most likely. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Jan 26, 2015 1:37 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 3:15 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Well, like I mentioned earlier, you always gripe about any US military action, and say nothing about other nations, and groups, agressions. This means, like the old Vietnam protestors, you were against the Vietnam war (making Breshnev smile) but these self same people had zero to say or do, regarding the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Or, more currently, nothing to say about Islamic wars and aggressions. So, this incongruence doesn't wash. This is picking sides, which is something I openly do, and you don't like. This is know as life. I lived in the fucking Vietnam war you fucking coward, and have lived in other regions of conflict as well, you have no idea what war is because all you have ever experienced of war is you couch potato blood lust for more war on your television screen. There is nothing uglier and more pathetic in the universe than a loud mouthed war demanding coward. Those who have actually seen war and know what war is are not nearly as enthusiastic for it as coddled punks like you Mitch. -Original
Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
As one-who-has-never-seen-war your braying bloodlust and your single minded demands for yet another round of shock and awe on CNN are frankly pathological there is something uniquely disgusting about loudmouthed punks such as you, demanding other peoples blood to be spilled. A US citizen or French citizen has more chance of dying from a lightening strike or a bee sting than from an act of terrorism; it is the actuary reality. Yet you demand this miniscule actual threat be responded to by forcing the entire world into a total war, which will certainly kill a whole lot more Americans (and people of other nationalities) than the ISIS ever will in a million years.I vocally oppose your bloody minded insanity and as a result you continuously vilify me, accusing me of consorting with the enemy (a capital offense) and other unfounded, calumnious lies. You are an offensive loser who obviously has nothing better to do than slander other people... how about you get a life Mitch? From: spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 12:04 PM Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Lots of people fought in the wars of the US, and do not have the attitude, opinions, and beliefs that you own. I know these people, some family members, who are in the marines and army infantry and have lost friends, and they don't see things as you do. Vietnam was quite a while ago and now we have an all volunteer army, since 1973. When asked by me, these people seemed to be even more aggressive than I. I would also say since the days of the draft, which were the soldiers of your experience, later generations of military are there by choice. Being anti-American is not the same thing as anti-war. The people whom I have spoken, who have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, with would take umbrage at your statements. The self righteousness thing, also an earmark of socialists, marxists, so-called antiwar, communists, is unimpressive at best, demagogic, most likely. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Jan 26, 2015 1:37 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 3:15 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Well, like I mentioned earlier, you always gripe about any US military action, and say nothing about other nations, and groups, agressions. This means, like the old Vietnam protestors, you were against the Vietnam war (making Breshnev smile) but these self same people had zero to say or do, regarding the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Or, more currently, nothing to say about Islamic wars and aggressions. So, this incongruence doesn't wash. This is picking sides, which is something I openly do, and you don't like. This is know as life. I lived in the fucking Vietnam war you fucking coward, and have lived in other regions of conflict as well, you have no idea what war is because all you have ever experienced of war is you couch potato blood lust for more war on your television screen. There is nothing uglier and more pathetic in the universe than a loud mouthed war demanding coward. Those who have actually seen war and know what war is are not nearly as enthusiastic for it as coddled punks like you Mitch. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 8:57 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 4:52 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Sent from AOL Mobile MailJust stop defending the indefensible islamists and refrain from making excuses for them. They are all adults and can speak for themselves. They believe what the believe, and it is neither my fault, nor even yours. The world is now slowly waking up to what is occuring, even to this day, the Japanese. I am sorry that disagreeing with your holy self is considered trolling. But thats what makes ball games. Deal with it. By all means disagree with me, but when you begin to suggest I am a traitor because I disagree with your insane desire for a global war you have crossed a line -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 07:22 PM Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From:
Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
From: spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com It's just that decided to oppose your love affair to get us to submit to Sharia. If you believe that you are out of your mind On the likelihood of an average American or French person dying of jihadist assassination, versus a lightning strike, I tend to agree with you statistically, but fear the odds are changing in my favor. In your favor? Do you think of this as some kind of sport with a game score? Are you really this insane? I am more alarmed by the active intimidation that is now manifest in Europe today. We have heard about the French and the Banilues, but the same is even more extent in Malmo, Sweden for example, which is usually not focused on. The police there no go zones are especially profound in Sweden, then France or the Netherlands, and I am not stating that there are not danger zones in either nation. You speak of such things as if you had actual knowledge,but I know for a fact that you got them from the current popular Tea Party talking points. Clearly, like a good foot soldier you are echoing what your thought leaders have instructed you to echo. Very original of you Mitch. Have you tried walking through North Philly or South Chicago? The worst ghettos and projects tend to be no go areas in every society that has them. -Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Manifesto Rex
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: Evolution favours nothing. That is incorrect. Evolution favors getting genes into the very next generation and Evolution favors absolutely positively NOTHING else. By saying favours you are already attempting interpretation. Yes. Interpretation means making sense out of something that otherwise would make no sense, and that's what science is all about. The concept of next generation, for example, is already a higher level abstraction over a bunch of molecules interacting. The next generation just means that something got duplicated, in this case genes. So if something is good at getting into the next generation it will outnumber something else that is not as good at doing that. And that's it, no intelligence or knowledge or wisdom or foresight is involved. Smart is a feature of by-products of evolution. I'm not sure what smart evolution could mean. If Evolution was smart it would realize that it is not a good idea to always settle for the local maximum; sometimes you need to step down from the mountain top you're on and go into the valley in order to get to a higher mountain than the one you're on, but Evolution doesn't understand that because Evolution is not smart. When Evolution goes mountain climbing ever single step it takes must increase, or at least not decrease, it's altitude, not even a little. Using that strategy you would NEVER get to the top of Mt Everest. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Manifesto Rex
On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: On 26 Jan 2015, at 7:43 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I study the consequences of a common assumption, and assuming a universal person is natural in this context. Here is the big sell, then. You have to somehow demonstrate to the human race that we are a universal person. I am working on this now actually (and have been for the past 8 years). Expect a book to be out in the near future. :-) I can think of no lesson more important than this. Jason Best of British, old son! The math alone maybe will convince another mathematician, but without your guiding values, they will fail to see the big picture we are sketching here, and instead will prefer to slap you down for it! The concept of the Universal Person needs to be hurled at humanity from the rooftops and from the pulpit and the schoolroom. Beethoven and Schiller tried in the 19th century. Jesus may have had something or other to say about it but nobody much appears to have understood. Plotinus: We ought not even to say that he will *see*, but he will *be* that which he sees, if indeed it is possible any longer to distinguish between seer and seen, and not boldly to affirm that the two are one. If comp is finally the better view of theology then it needs to be understood and acted upon. For once we are looking at the ways in which persons are the same rather than minutely examine the ways in which persons differ. The Universal Person sees no point in war, murder, prohibition and the like because it no longer merely applies to others; it applies to the self. You don't disallow others from doing what you allow yourself - this is not libertarianism; this is self-referentially correct behaviour of a consistent machine that knows that it cannot prove with arrogant certainty its own consistency. Also, if the conception of that idea was more widespread; it might limit the attempt of some people to annoy or kill other people, given that they would be more likely able to suspect being, maybe, those other people when put in a different general situation. This then, is our only hope to enter into the experience of another in the hope of understanding their otherness. Paradoxically, you now ERASE the concept of otherness in your outlook. This is more than simple empathy. This is the fundamental assumption that you ARE in fact more than one single individual yourself but that you only have your personal perspective. Different people are now seen as the self from a different perspective. This kind of happens already in the tribal/family view of persons but tribes and families despite being able to empathise and psychologically bond with their own - never seem to get over their inability to empathise with different tribes and families. It helps from going from: Hitler is the bad. We won against Hitler the bad. The good has won, cheers and tra-la-la ... To I have made a big cruel mistake, I succeeded in stopping it, how can I prevent to do it again, ... This implies that humans may one day learn the lessons of history but they never do. The reason is they study too much history. If you read 1,000 books about the causes of WWI then you have not become an expert at how to prevent war but rather an expert at how to cause war. There is no school subject called Human Universality. Why do humans never study the ways in which all the tribes and clans and families are the same as each other? What really is the difference between a Jew and a Palestinian? A Chinese and a Japanese? A German and an Austrian? A Christian and a Muslim. All of these designators are fake, fake, fake. They all say I want to be taken seriously on tribal family grounds, not on grounds of human universality. K But that is not normative, only it might encourage the spiritual experiences (be it with music, or whatever) which can help people to recognize themselves on a vaster spectrum. Bruno -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Yes indeed, we too have no go zones, but in the US, this doesn't include the police. The police do go into crime zones, but in th EU, they demure, so as not to create conflict. That in itself is a big difference. In Paris, the local muslims block traffic whilst the lay down their prayer rugs in the street, most likely to show dominance. There are serious studies by academics regarding public muslim behavior that are illuminating. Because of your ideology, and it is hard Left you know, the uma cannot do bad things, because they are permanent victims to you. This is the narrative of socialists, progressives, antiwar types, and, your faith movement, rather then cognitive analysis and reflection. Thus, your kind excuses, and tries to explain away Islamist behavior. As far as the tea baggers go, they have some interesting ideas about the consolidation of power amongst the elites, but politically, they seem ineffectual. I use ideas from any thinker of any persuasion, that can produce fixes for troubles. A fix either works or it doesn't, so its seeking the matter of fact, rather then opinion. From watching Obama, and the EU, the cateting to the Islamists, has proved a huge failure. The nice thing about the tea baggers was that they appeared to be a vanguard proletariat, to quote Lenin. They fizzeled largely because of amateurishness, and political disorganization. I say we need a strong and prospering America, till eithe the singularity hits, or your Jesus returns. Either is good with me. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Jan 26, 2015 05:06 PM Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? div id=AOLMsgPart_2_4b6f996f-1526-4412-971a-e09e50a01cce div class=aolReplacedBody div style=color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:bookman old style, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px div id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24003 span/span div id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24007 div id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24006 div dir=ltr id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24005 style=font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; hr size=1 font size=2 face=Arial id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24009 bspan style=font-weight:bold;From:/span/b spudboy100 via Everything List a href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a /font /div div class=aolmail_y_msg_container id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24011 div id=aolmail_yiv1928781359 div id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24014 style=font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font color=black size=2 face=arial id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24013It's just that decided to oppose your love affair to get us to submit to Sharia./font /div div id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24014 style=font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font color=black size=2 face=arial /font /div div id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24014 dir=ltr font color=black id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24028 size=3If you believe that you are out of your mind/font /div div id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24014 style=font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font color=black size=2 face=arial /font /div div id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24014 style=font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font color=black size=2 face=arial id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24030 On the likelihood of an average American or French person dying of jihadist assassination, versus a lightning strike, I tend to agree with you statistically, but fear the odds are changing in my favor. /font /div div id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24014 style=font-size: 16px; font color=black size=2 /font /div div id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24014 dir=ltr font color=black id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24129 face=HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif size=3In your favor? Do you think of this as some kind of sport with a game score? Are you really this insane?/font /div div id=aolmail_yui_3_16_0_1_1422302912084_24014 style=font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font color=black size=2 face=arial /font /div div
Re: Say it ain't so, Saul!
That was truly entertaining. I loved the way it ended up Kim On 26 Jan 2015, at 9:02 pm, David Nyman da...@davidnyman.com wrote: https://fauxphilnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/kripke-resigns-after-allegations-of-academic-fraud/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Manifesto Rex
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 6:15 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 7:48 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: That is incorrect. Evolution will favor whichever strategy is better in the *SHORT* run. There is a point where the antropomorphisation of evolution breaks, Yes, but I'm very far from that point. Evolution favours nothing. That is incorrect. Evolution favors getting genes into the very next generation and Evolution favors absolutely positively NOTHING else. By saying favours you are already attempting interpretation. The concept of next generation, for example, is already a higher level abstraction over a bunch of molecules interacting. So by trying to impose a level of abstraction at which you think it is acceptable to reason, but rejecting other levels of abstraction, you are just arguing from authority. There are trees of organisms descending from other organisms. Sometimes a mutation will create a local advantage that is maladaptive in the long run. That is certainly true, and because Evolution has no wisdom and has no long term plan that mutant gene that was successful for one generation will go extinct after that. Meanwhile, another population that suffered a more subtle mutation with advantages in the long run, does not suffer from resource depletion and ends up enjoying the benefits of a mutation that is better in the long run. And it doesn't matter one bit how wonderful that gene would be in the long run, if it is unsuccessful for just one generation it will go extinct. That would never happen if Evolution was smart, but it isn't. And if Evolution was smart it would see that it is a pointless arms race to increase the muscles in a prey animal so it could run faster and get away from predators and then increase the muscles in predator animals so they can run faster and catch the faster prey. The genes of both predator and prey would be better off if the muscle size was kept the same and all that energy was put into having more offspring, it would be the smart thing to do, it would be the wise thing to do, but Evolution is neither of those things. Smart is a feature of by-products of evolution. I'm not sure what smart evolution could mean. Maybe it would generate nothing? The condom is one of these things. It seems like a disadvantage in the short run but transforms into an advantage in the long run. Poor populations that are stuck in the catholic reproductive algorithm suffer from resource depletion, while condom users prosper in the long run. And Evolution figured all this out 500,000 years ago did it? Don't be ridiculous. Evolution figured out 500K years ago that relinquishing some control to the brain was a good idea. The condom is a consequence of that. Nothing ridiculous about that. I described a perfectly reasonable scenario, and how it leads to evolution *appearing to* have foresight. You just ignored all that, distorted what I said, and jumped straight to saying I'm being ridiculous. Telmo. A phenotypical improvement is only possible if it can be produced by a sequence of genetic mutations such that every intermediary organism is viable. Obviously. This doesn't mean that every intermediary organism has to be better. It doesn't have to be perfect but it does have to be equal to or better than the competition. And by better I mean the ability to get genes into the very next generation. In the long term, neutral mutations + survival bias can lead to something that looks like foresight. Neutral mutations are not stable, there is no pressure for them to be so. To a creature who lives it's entire life in a dark cave a mutation in the gene that produces the eye is neutral, that's why cave animals have no eyes. You talk as if evolution had a goal, but it does not. It does have a goal, get genes into the very next generation, but that's the end of the story. You're the one who talks as if Evolution had some sort of long range master plan and knew all about condoms and Catholics and the educational aspirations the poor have for their children and had a cunning way to exploit these things to it's advantage. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to
Say it ain't so, Saul!
https://fauxphilnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/kripke-resigns-after-allegations-of-academic-fraud/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
I like your use of the word calumny. An endless clash of civilization? Naw! But we do need to defend ourselves against the jihadi, and be able to retaliate, which is something you are totally against and have stated this, repeatedly. You are not anti-war, merely anti-US wars. If you were a true pacifist, you would logically be anti-war, across the board. You are not against Islamist attacks in the west, because you believe they are justified. This is where you cross the line comrade. Your true war is against middle America. As for solutions, you ain't interested, to put it mildly. You are seemingly very keen to be the agit-prop on this mailing list to cavil about anyone not following the party line. So go ahead, troll away! -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 8:55 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 4:40 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Well you make these declarative statements regarding what you feel is fit for this country, with your own list of who is naughty and nice, and yourself as chief judge of who is to be included, and who is to be cast out. This is so much like extreme Christian fundamentalists and your beloved, Islamists, that I wonder how drawn you might have been to tyranical ideologies. This, would explain a lot. It may come as a surprise to you but in a democratic system people have differences of opinion and do not always agree on policy. However when a yahoo like you begins to slander anyone who opposes their policy by accusing them of supporting the enemy – e.g. of committing treasonous acts – you have left the big tent of democratic debate and have instead chosen to support totalitarianism. Your support of the imposition of a totalitarian system – to crush dissent and a diversity of opinions -- makes you a self-declared enemy of the republic. It is by your actions and by your calumny of anyone who dares to disagree with your fanatical advocacy for an endless war that you define yourself as adhering to an extremist totalitarian political ideology. Crushing dissent is not the way of democracy; it is the preference of totalitarians the world over (and it does not matter much what philosophy they putatively espouse, it is by their actions and kind of argument that they can be recognized. You share more with ISIS and the world view of hatred that drives them than you do with the ideals of the Age of Enlightenment that are enshrined in the US constitution and recognized as being the founding principles upon which our republic is based. I have as little love of the Islamists as I have for you Mitch… you are cut from the same cloth. Both you and ISIS espouse totalitarian solutions. You are far more like them than you may realize. You hate them, but like ISIS, you seek to impose a totalitarian monolithic order in order to mount a clash of civilizations endless war. You are just like the psychopath ISIS thugs and criminals in this crucial sense. You are an enemy of our Republic because you choose to subvert the ideals upon which it is based. Instead I support our Constitution and the Republic it is the basis for. This is the basic difference between what you believe and what I believe. I fully expect you to continue with your calumny and call me all manner of things that I am not… for you to continue to try to insinuate that I some kind of traitor who supports terrorist groups (who you darkly suggest will be dealt with once your side sweeps to power) This continued and long standing behavior of yours Mitch, is why I view you as an enemy of our Republic and of the Constitution upon which it is based. I am here and I am not going anywhere, and I will not let you intimidate me into silence. -Chris -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 07:21 PM Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 3:56 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? No, not true. You basically want the US to fail, and collapse so that it will fall into the correct hands. You have zero criticism of Bamer's NSA, and you want us to sympathize with the Paris bombers. They are only doing it because of the evil Americans! Not really. What I am trying to subvert(?) is the unanswered propaganda spewed by yourself, with some occasional facts.
Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
Well, like I mentioned earlier, you always gripe about any US military action, and say nothing about other nations, and groups, agressions. This means, like the old Vietnam protestors, you were against the Vietnam war (making Breshnev smile) but these self same people had zero to say or do, regarding the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Or, more currently, nothing to say about Islamic wars and aggressions. So, this incongruence doesn't wash. This is picking sides, which is something I openly do, and you don't like. This is know as life. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 8:57 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 4:52 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Just stop defending the indefensible islamists and refrain from making excuses for them. They are all adults and can speak for themselves. They believe what the believe, and it is neither my fault, nor even yours. The world is now slowly waking up to what is occuring, even to this day, the Japanese. I am sorry that disagreeing with your holy self is considered trolling. But thats what makes ball games. Deal with it. By all means disagree with me, but when you begin to suggest I am a traitor because I disagree with your insane desire for a global war you have crossed a line -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 07:22 PM Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 3:46 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? No, n-n-n-ooo! Bwah hah hah! Ranting, isn't reasoning, but it obviously satisfies you. My mission, as far as this mailing list goes, generally is to gain information on the possibilities of human transcendence. I am sort of focused on the attainment of the Singularity which depending on how things come about, if they even do? To give this possibility a chance. It will never have a chance if communists, like yourself, dominate in politics, academia, and the media. Your side empowers the Jihadists and because they fit into your ideology as victims, ignore what they do and say, in real life. In fact, your team really wants the jihadists to eliminate your common enemy, America, the middle class, free thinkers, religious conservatives, and anyone else who doesn't tow the party line, basically the same assholes who turned a blind eye to Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. When the Stalin-Hitler Pact of Steel was signed (1939-41), your side, worldwide, ceased its criticism of the Nazis, so as to align itself with Stalin. Woody Guthrie, for example, withdrew a song about Adolf that he had sung in 1938. This essentially is your side, your team, and the Jihadists are someone you sympathize with. Your side is killing off hope for any human future. This is sad for the whole world. You are simply another fanatic who knows what you feel, so thanks for the polarization. My side? Come on give it a rest troll. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 6:06 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 2:17 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? Brent, the selectivity of his outrage typifies who he blames who whom he hates. Its never that he and his droogies are anti-war, but they are anti-Us participation in any war you can think of. Beyond that, the Islamists are now trying for the death of 1000 cuts, little strikes, lone wolves, loaners, etc. Eventually they will be in a position to gain better weaponry and funding and planning. Do you think I am wrong? You are an enemy of the ideals and principles the country I love was founded on, Mitch. You are an enemy of the republic who would subvert it from within and turn it into a One Party totalitarian state where opposition to the Party becomes a crime against the state. That is the sick ideology you represent and adhere to; it is foreign and inimical to the principles of the Republic. You may wrap yourself in the American flag, in fact I am quite sure that you do, but you are an enemy of the underlying
Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon?
Yeah, yeah, we can both agree the French and British sucked. If you want to make them accurately, uncomfortable, mention the Belgian rubber empire in the 19th century. Their king, a labor reformer at home, over saw the murder of maybe 8 million people over 20 years, on rubber plantations. Human history is replete with slaughter. Now that things are a bit more civilized, it'd be a tragedy for the west to lose out to Islamist savages-which is what they are, just like we were, not so long ago. The French for example. are supine, even in the face of an Islamist attack 2 weeks ago. This is not a sign of peace, but a sign of a failing society. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Jan 25, 2015 9:08 pm Subject: RE: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Platonist Guitar Cowboy Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2015 5:30 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why was nobody murdered because of this cartoon? On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 1:51 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Sent from AOL Mobile Mail Just stop defending the indefensible islamists and refrain from making excuses for them. They are all adults and can speak for themselves. They believe what the believe, and it is neither my fault, nor even yours. The world is now slowly waking up to what is occuring, even to this day, the Japanese. I am sorry that disagreeing with your holy self is considered trolling. But thats what makes ball games. Deal with it. What makes the ball game is people sowing fear and reaping aggression on all sides by committing violent acts for political and economic gain, which is a threat. It's perhaps a fine line between recognizing this fact and falling prey to the PR ploy as recognizing the fact brings our own political lines, which furthers the ploy's objective, into play. Brent made a good point: compare violence to potency of other threats. I'd add cui bono, obligatory grain of salt, and maybe we don't need cartoons to replace our thinking or humor. PGC It would behoove us to at least recognize that the roots of the problems in the middle east run deeper than offense at a cartoon. It is a complex mess with deep historical roots going back to the Ottoman period and on through the period of French and British colonial rule. There are no easy solutions and the problem is not going away. In order to manage the situation, as it has become, we need to at the very least have a clear and comprehensive understanding of the issues and forces that are driving resurgent medievalism in the middle east (but not only there… there is a surge of the medievalist mind in the USA, and I imagine to some degree in Western Europe as well) -Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Knowledge is only possible in a symphony of force fields
Knowledge is only possible in a symphony of force fields http://www.wisdomofchopra.com/ Some posts of this list that mix conscuousness with physics resembles me third age gurus. This at least is randomly generared by a program. -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?
On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: I agree it is devilishly hard to produce a truly random stream and a lot of brain power has gone into trying to do so, because of the strategic importance of doing so. It's not merely hard it can't be done, you will never be able to produce true randomness in a computer with just software, you'll need to add a hardware gadget for that. Ten divided by three results in a non-computable number Ten divided by three is a computable number, Turing meant something else by a non-computable number. There are algorithms that will allow you to compute a decimal that is arbitrarily close to 10/3 or the square root of 2 or PI or e, or any other real number that has a name; tell me how close you want to get (provided the distance isn't zero) and I'll give you a finite decimal for it. But Turing proved that most numbers on the Real number line, nearly all in fact, are not like that at all; there are no algorithms that can even give approximations for them. It's sort of ironic that although these non-computable numbers are vastly, in fact infinitely, more common than the computable numbers that everybody is familiar with nobody can point to and name a single one of them... well Chaitin managed to name one and called it Omega, but he couldn't point to it. take any local section of the stream – of square root of two is instead very difficult to compress That's true, the entire square root of 2 decimal expansion would be easy to compress, but a local section of it, say just the digits from digit 1000 to digit 2000, would be far more difficult to compress. Is there a algorithm that will produce just those digits that is shorter than a list of those 1000 digits? Maybe there is, or maybe not, Turing also proved that in general there is no way to know if there is a algorithm that will produce a sequence of numbers that is shorter than the sequence itself; and even if there is and you happened to find a algorithm that worked Turing also proved that in general there is no way to know if it is the shortest algorithm. . By seemingly random I assume you mean it came from a algorithm. Yes, it is not truly random, but the chunks have been randomly scrambled in the transmission OK. How is the data stream scrambled, by another algorithm or a physical random process such as radioactivity decay? Assume by some physical random process – assume for the sake of discussion that the ordering of the packets has been truly scrambled. OK Also need to assume that the key first packet containing the portion of the number to the left of the ‘dot’ is explicitly excluded from the transmission. Only packets of numbers are transmitted; no other symbols. OK now I am not sure, perhaps square root of two will leave subtle patterns in the apparently random series that a clever algorithm could pull out. This possibility increases as the chunk size increases, The square root of 2 has been calculated to, I don't know probably about a trillion digits, but regardless of the chunk size if the chunks were picked at random from the entire infinite sequence of digits then the probability that any chunk you received came from those first trillion digits that you would recognize would be zero. And even supposing one of the chunks you got did contained a sequence of 1000 digits that were identical to the first 1000 digits of the square root of 2 that doesn't prove it came from a algorithm that produces the square root of 2. It has been proven that any finite sequence of digits you can name exists somewhere in the decimal expansion of PI or e, your social security number will be out there a finite distance into the expansion and so will the first 1000 digits of the square root of 2. So maybe the number they're sending you didn't come from a algorithm for the square root of 2 at all, maybe it came from a PI algorithm, or a e algorithm. In other words will the recipient ever be able to predict what the next digit will be? I was thinking more of the strong challenge of reassembling the packets into their correct order; by working back to a proof of the function that generated the output stream, That would be pretty much the same thing, if you can reliably predict the next digit you must have figured out what the algorithm was that produced the digits.. John k Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: We cannot generate algorithmically a random sequence, but we can generate algorithmically all random sequence, thanks to the fact that the in the sequence 0 and 1 we already generate the correct digit 0 of the 2^aleph_zero random sequences beginning by 0, and the correct digit 1 of the other half. Then we proceed, 00 01 and 10 11 and we continue in that way, we generate in that way all finite initial segments of all sequences. Well sure, it would be easy to write a program to generate every possible sequence of digits of FINITE length, but If you give me a list, any list, of infinitely many infinite numbers I know it does not contain them all because I can always use Cantor's diagonal argument to generate a number that is not on your list. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Manifesto Rex
On 27 Jan 2015, at 4:44 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 26 Jan 2015, at 00:02, Kim Jones wrote: On 26 Jan 2015, at 7:43 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I study the consequences of a common assumption, and assuming a universal person is natural in this context. Here is the big sell, then. You have to somehow demonstrate to the human race that we are a universal person. I appreciate your enthusiasm, Kim. But here we are close to a problem. Why would I do that? Because they are going to install a world government sooner or later which will mean the re-enslavement of humanity. The one person concept could be hijacked by the forces of evil. Plato's Republic has a very very dark side. If there is only one person, it is enough to convince that person, or to see that such a person is born conceiving that thing. OK - you've pretty much convinced this person! And I reckon I was born with the ability to conceive of the unseen reality. Mathemusicians are maybe like that. We are a platonic clan. Are you sure that's all there is to it? I haven't been able to convince anyone else of this yet. I know lots of people who remain to be convinced. I don't see the need to endlessly debate the thing; I'm now looking at the practical, everyday value of such a view. Sooner or later you just go with it to see where it leads. That's what I'm doing. I gave up years ago trying to find the difference between right and wrong. Now I just look for what works (relative to some plan or goal) as opposed to what doesn't work. You have to know the goal with this method. For me the goal is education. We are close to the theological trap. That is something which I have better understood thanks to the salvia experience: illumination has a life spoiling effect: like reading the end of the novel or thriller. Indeed. Why bother, then? What drives us to desire illumination, given we only succeed in making our lives miserable when we find what we seek? But then, of course that is the base of the whole Platonism: guessing the reality behind the appearances. Ahhh! A game it is.It's a personality-type then, as I have been saying. One is predisposed to desire this kind of thing. Others maybe not. I've got it bad. You have it bad. Do you agree with me that we cannot divide the two belief-tribes of Aristotle and Plato into anything more fundamental in terms of belief systems? If yes, what does it mean that we confront life continually as the one or as the other? It is a contemplative things, quite opposite to the self-extending habit of the singular first person who believes being different, and who will tend to exploits all the illusion. Agreed. The Tao is Very Silent. But, with comp, are we replacing the singular first person habit of exploiting the Grande Illusion with comp or are we adding a string to our bow? If so, what is the advantage of this extra string? Best of British, old son! The math alone maybe will convince another mathematician, but without your guiding values, they will fail to see the big picture we are sketching here, and instead will prefer to slap you down for it! Yes, they don't listen to the guy who listen already to the machine. Ce sont les vrais salauds et les salopards. They know that something like your comp conjecture is possible (?) - yet they don't want you to tell others? Things will take time, the humans does not recognize themselves in the other human, so for PA and cuttlefishes, that will take some time. So much for the self-accelerating effect of consciousness The concept of the Universal Person needs to be hurled at humanity from the rooftops and from the pulpit and the schoolroom. Beethoven and Schiller tried in the 19th century. Jesus may have had something or other to say about it but nobody much appears to have understood. But I thought it was more or less obvious, that the arithmetical hypostases provides a general theory of the person, which is, relatively to truth a discursive reasoner (G and G*), a soul (S4Grz), an observer (Z*, Z1* with the arithmetical emulation of computationalism), etc. I see what you mean, but Plotinus's hypostases may need to be described in more normative language for some. Most will see the three levels of reality a little bit like a(n un)Holy Trinity - even though these hypostases underlie even the concept of the Christian tri-une God. Yours is a form of gnostic wisdom, a deeper investigation of the anatomy of belief. Write a book called The Anatomy of Belief. Unless Smullyan or someone already has... A general theory of person defined implicitly a universal person, which is a sort of universal baby, Kubrick and Clarke's enigmatic star child at the end of 2001 which lives in us and all arithmetical incarnation of our recursively enumerable extensions. Why is it I don't
