Re: Samiya proved right
This discussion-post approaches some better reality-case than most of the others. Reminds me of the Worldview of my wife: we are here by decree of some ZOOKEEPER as long as 'they' want something we provide (for them). We do not know them, don't communicate with them. When our 'usefulness' is over, we perish. My - more human-logic based natural scientific agnosticism (call it common sense) - places the ORIGIN (incl.: the propagational steps) into the infinite complexity of this Universe (that may be much larger than whatever we call 'our' Cosmos) and an infinite composite - I call it 'Plenitude' - that does not tolerate complexities yet all ingredients fluctuate in ceaseless conflation. Complexity comes into play, when 'relatable' ingredients mass up in the fluctuation and screw up the equilibrium of the Plenitude. I call such violations 'Universes - they dissipate as they form (no time factor - maybe) with diverse complexity in such groups. It is not a 'created' world, not a deterministically forced order, not teleological or predetermined: it succumbs to the unlimited variations of the participants as they enter the image. Under such (self-controlled - iff??) conditions *our* Universe is of a lower complexity (SPACE - TIME SYSTEM?) and OTHERS MAY BE MORE SOPHISTICATED (the Zookeepers?). Accordingly 'prayer' is senseless, much more so 'praying' to a supernatural being with infinite wisdom and power (that would pretend to PRESCRIBE to such Being what to do BEST - as WE think of it). To 'praise' such Being? it may be ridiculous, if not supposing the 'narcisstic brutal nature' someone mentioned lately on this list. My example: 2 mothers 'pray' identically for the safe homecoming of their sons from the same war. Both are 'good' etc. One son comes home safe, the other in a body bag. Add a third one to my example and that 3rd one comes home mentally(bodily?) destroyed. Some bad guys come home safely. As a child, I was raised religiously, served even as a Catholic altar-boy and studied several religions and Scripts. My wife was educated by nuns. Just to tell my side John M On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 2:37 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Hey, I grew up watching the Organians do their thing. You leave human reaction to wide open. You want to pray to a baddie, or kick the shins of a goodie? -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Jun 2, 2015 10:58 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On 3 June 2015 at 14:56, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: So if contact is made to the godlikes, assuming that he, she, it, they, should they be worshipped? No? What if these imaginary guys did something really nice for us? I think we should react to them as seems appropriate under the circumstances (like most things, really). PS See early Star Trek for more details on how to react to godlike beings. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
Ah, the plenitude, how about this? http://phys.org/news/2015-06-strange-behavior-quantum-particles-parallel.html Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: John Mikes jami...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, Jun 3, 2015 05:13 PM Subject: Re: Samiya proved right div id=AOLMsgPart_2_36fc52ae-c67f-42de-aefe-26436f992e0e div dir=ltr This discussion-post approaches some better reality-case than most of the others. Reminds me of the Worldview of my wife: we are here by decree of some ZOOKEEPER as long as 'they' want something we provide (for them). div We do not know them, don't communicate with them. When our 'usefulness' is over, we perish. My - more human-logic based natural scientific agnosticism (call it common sense) - places the ORIGIN (incl.: the propagational steps) into the infinite complexity of this Universe (that may be much larger than whatever we call 'our' Cosmos) and an infinite composite - I call it 'Plenitude' - that does not tolerate complexities yet all ingredients fluctuate in ceaseless conflation. Complexity comes into play, when 'relatable' ingredients mass up in the fluctuation and screw up the equilibrium of the Plenitude. I call such violations 'Universes - they dissipate as they form (no time factor - maybe) with diverse complexity in such groups. It is not a 'created' world, not a deterministically forced order, not teleological or predetermined: it succumbs to the unlimited variations of the participants as they enter the image. Under such (self-controlled - iff??) conditions buour/u/b Universe is of a lower complexity (SPACE - TIME SYSTEM?) and OTHERS MAY BE MORE SOPHISTICATED (the Zookeepers?). Accordingly 'prayer' is senseless, much more so 'praying' to a supernatural being with infinite wisdom and power (that would pretend to PRESCRIBE to such Being what to do BEST - as WE think of it). To 'praise' such Being? it may be ridiculous, if not supposing the 'narcisstic brutal nature' someone mentioned lately on this list. My example: 2 mothers 'pray' identically for the safe homecoming of their sons from the same war. Both are 'good' etc. One son comes home safe, the other in a body bag. Add a third one to my example and that 3rd one comes home mentally(bodily?) destroyed. Some bad guys come home safely. As a child, I was raised religiously, served even as a Catholic altar-boy and studied several religions and Scripts. My wife was educated by nuns. Just to tell my side John M /div div class=aolmail_gmail_extra div class=aolmail_gmail_quote On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 2:37 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List span dir=ltra target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a/span wrote: blockquote class=aolmail_gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex font color=black size=2 face=arial font face=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif style=background-color:transparentHey, I grew up watching the Organians do their thing. You leave human reaction to wide open. You want to pray to a baddie, or kick the shins of a goodie? /font div style=color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt span-Original Message- From: LizR a target=_blank href=mailto:lizj...@gmail.com;lizj...@gmail.com/a To: everything-list a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a /span span Sent: Tue, Jun 2, 2015 10:58 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right /span div class=aolmail_h5 div div dir=ltr div class=aolmail_gmail_extra div class=aolmail_gmail_quote On 3 June 2015 at 14:56, spudboy100 via Everything List span dir=ltra target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a/span wrote: blockquote class=aolmail_gmail_quote style=margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid So if contact is made to the godlikes, assuming that he, she, it, they, should they be worshipped? No? What if these imaginary guys did something really nice for us? span /span /blockquoteI think we should react to them as seems appropriate under the circumstances (like most things, really). div class=aolmail_gmail_quote /div div class=aolmail_gmail_quote PS See early Star Trek for more details on how to react to godlike beings. div class=aolmail_gmail_extra /div /div
Re: Samiya proved right
If people have some unknown psychic powers, prayers might do some good even without a God (unlikely, I imagine, but who knows?). Or maybe praying and believing someone is listening just does you good psychologically. On 4 June 2015 at 09:38, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Ah, the plenitude, how about this? http://phys.org/news/2015-06-strange-behavior-quantum-particles-parallel.html Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: John Mikes jami...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, Jun 3, 2015 05:13 PM Subject: Re: Samiya proved right This discussion-post approaches some better reality-case than most of the others. Reminds me of the Worldview of my wife: we are here by decree of some ZOOKEEPER as long as 'they' want something we provide (for them). We do not know them, don't communicate with them. When our 'usefulness' is over, we perish. My - more human-logic based natural scientific agnosticism (call it common sense) - places the ORIGIN (incl.: the propagational steps) into the infinite complexity of this Universe (that may be much larger than whatever we call 'our' Cosmos) and an infinite composite - I call it 'Plenitude' - that does not tolerate complexities yet all ingredients fluctuate in ceaseless conflation. Complexity comes into play, when 'relatable' ingredients mass up in the fluctuation and screw up the equilibrium of the Plenitude. I call such violations 'Universes - they dissipate as they form (no time factor - maybe) with diverse complexity in such groups. It is not a 'created' world, not a deterministically forced order, not teleological or predetermined: it succumbs to the unlimited variations of the participants as they enter the image. Under such (self-controlled - iff??) conditions *our* Universe is of a lower complexity (SPACE - TIME SYSTEM?) and OTHERS MAY BE MORE SOPHISTICATED (the Zookeepers?). Accordingly 'prayer' is senseless, much more so 'praying' to a supernatural being with infinite wisdom and power (that would pretend to PRESCRIBE to such Being what to do BEST - as WE think of it). To 'praise' such Being? it may be ridiculous, if not supposing the 'narcisstic brutal nature' someone mentioned lately on this list. My example: 2 mothers 'pray' identically for the safe homecoming of their sons from the same war. Both are 'good' etc. One son comes home safe, the other in a body bag. Add a third one to my example and that 3rd one comes home mentally(bodily?) destroyed. Some bad guys come home safely. As a child, I was raised religiously, served even as a Catholic altar-boy and studied several religions and Scripts. My wife was educated by nuns. Just to tell my side John M On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 2:37 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Hey, I grew up watching the Organians do their thing. You leave human reaction to wide open. You want to pray to a baddie, or kick the shins of a goodie? -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Jun 2, 2015 10:58 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On 3 June 2015 at 14:56, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: So if contact is made to the godlikes, assuming that he, she, it, they, should they be worshipped? No? What if these imaginary guys did something really nice for us? I think we should react to them as seems appropriate under the circumstances (like most things, really). PS See early Star Trek for more details on how to react to godlike beings. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit
Re: Samiya proved right
Hey, I grew up watching the Organians do their thing. You leave human reaction to wide open. You want to pray to a baddie, or kick the shins of a goodie? -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Jun 2, 2015 10:58 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On 3 June 2015 at 14:56, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: So if contact is made to the godlikes, assuming that he, she, it, they, should they be worshipped? No? What if these imaginary guys did something really nice for us? I think we should react to them as seems appropriate under the circumstances (like most things, really). PS See early Star Trek for more details on how to react to godlike beings. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: If people have some unknown psychic powers, prayers might do some good even without a God (unlikely, I imagine, but who knows?). Who knows? We know, and we know because if prayer could effect our world the way the religious say it does it could certainty be detected by the scientific method. There has been an extensive study of the power of prayer that lasted for 10 years and involved more than 1800 people. Nearly all scientists thought such a study was a waste of money but it was payed for by the Templeton Foundation which loves religious crap and does everything it can to promote it. The results were reported in 2006 but they were not what the Templeton Foundation had hoped for. From the March 31 2006 New York Times: Prayers offered by strangers had no effect on the recovery of people who were undergoing heart surgery, a large and long-awaited study has found. And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested. Because it is the most scientifically rigorous investigation of whether prayer can heal illness, the study, begun almost a decade ago and involving more than 1,800 patients, has for for years been the subject of speculation. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
Well, it halted intellectual progress (and governmental) progress, by submitting to god's will and shrugging one's shoulders. Mind you, everyone in the past and today does this because we cannot rule reality. The American phrase, it is what it is, we can all hear every day. Now why we may ask ourselves, did Muslim civilization slide, while Europe, rose and China, after sending its ships round the world achieved, and then declined? The best guess is that although piety may keep a person humble, it may also make someone, incurious. Why ask? It's God's will! What can we do? The Greeks also rose and fell. China under the Ming, I believe, turned inward after the Emperors command, and nobody could rise out of what their fathers did to earn a living. This killed China's rise to power, even after success with technology. As far as controlling things here is a short paul davies speculation on the universe, reality, mind. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2015/06/todays-galaxy-insight-an-et-technology-beyond-matter.html Here is another guy's but be careful, he might be a shia! http://www.int.washington.edu/users/mjs5/Simulation/Universe/ -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Jun 1, 2015 10:18 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the Quran, so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as a reminder to keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that it applies not only to the quantum level, but cascades on to everything. Saying 'In Sha Allah' and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that no matter how earnestly we resolve to do something or how hard we tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this temporal realm, we can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, however whether we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our efforts, is determined and decreed by God. This helps to keep us going even when things don't seem to turn out right, as we are assured that all efforts are being recorded and will be compensated in the Hereafter. I suppose one way to understand it is in terms of a software whose designer codes in all outcomes, and the results, though based on user-choices, are already coded in by the designer. The designer is always in full control and the decision is always as the designer designed it. I suppose I should acknowledge here that, I do find, on the personal level, God's help and facilitation of matters that seem insurmountable to me, yet stating 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] in earnestness makes the matter easy and manageable. Alhamdolillah [All Praise and Thanks to God] Ma Sha Allah: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=$yA#(5:48:31) In Sha Allah: http://quran.com/18/23-24 Samiya Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. Samiya -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody
Re: Samiya proved right
Samiya, let me be rude, for an exchange: do you really think (and believe!) that you are a trustable advocate os God's will and wisdom? You never even justified your God's existence and activity (plans?) except for some threats against not believeing what you said. And I repeat: WHAT YOU SAID (mostly hiding behind YOUR words) assigned to God - or the Script, (which is no better than your word as long as you did not justify the origin of it). And many of this think-tank flock of mostly believers goes for it endlessly. I believe I have little time left yet cannot force myself NOT to go through your escapades about YOUR OWN belief system without believable justification. Sorry for my outburst John M On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the Quran, so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as a reminder to keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that it applies not only to the quantum level, but cascades on to everything. Saying 'In Sha Allah' and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that no matter how earnestly we resolve to do something or how hard we tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this temporal realm, we can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, however whether we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our efforts, is determined and decreed by God. This helps to keep us going even when things don't seem to turn out right, as we are assured that all efforts are being recorded and will be compensated in the Hereafter. I suppose one way to understand it is in terms of a software whose designer codes in all outcomes, and the results, though based on user-choices, are already coded in by the designer. The designer is always in full control and the decision is always as the designer designed it. I suppose I should acknowledge here that, I do find, on the personal level, God's help and facilitation of matters that seem insurmountable to me, yet stating 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] in earnestness makes the matter easy and manageable. Alhamdolillah [All Praise and Thanks to God] Ma Sha Allah: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=$yA#(5:48:31) In Sha Allah: http://quran.com/18/23-24 Samiya Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. Samiya -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: No compulsion when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine. I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis. If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. Now look what you made me do! he says as he tortures you. On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias samiyaill
Re: Samiya proved right
Well, I don't guarantee you that it is a simulation, but I will say that its a computation, one that may or may not generate the matter we see and feel. Energy is movement at some point which makes it energetic. Davies was us a wild example of the power of things not yet known or under appreciated. If you can manipulate blocks of electrons,you can creatematter that we have never seen before. First, whomever does this has overcome electrical resistance tween each electron from another, then doing this en masse, means a world that transcends Harry Potter or LOTR, because we are dealing then. with a Dungeons and Dragons world of wands, and armor, and magic swords that cut through dragon skin. As for me, I am a 7th level magic user with an armor class of +6, and the ability to frost and fireballs with a hitpoint of 27, in full armor. -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Jun 2, 2015 6:23 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On 3 June 2015 at 07:05, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: As far as controlling things here is a short paul davies speculation on the universe, reality, mind. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2015/06/todays-galaxy-insight-an-et-technology-beyond-matter.html I'm reliably informed that we can't do anything without matter, so that is clearly nonsense. Here is another guy's but be careful, he might be a shia! http://www.int.washington.edu/users/mjs5/Simulation/Universe/ Interesting summary. Did they mention the breakdown of Lorentz invariance? I guess the cosmoc ray business would cover that. I would say that there isnt' a huge difference between a numerically simulated universe and Max Tegmark's mathematical universe hypothesis (except in the simulation we assume an underlying computer made of ... well, something that isn't just software. But suppose the nesting goes on forever - turtles all the way down, as the writer of LOGO might have put it?) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 3 June 2015 at 11:51, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Well, I don't guarantee you that it is a simulation, but I will say that its a computation, one that may or may not generate the matter we see and feel. Energy is movement at some point which makes it energetic. Davies was us a wild example of the power of things not yet known or under appreciated. If you can manipulate blocks of electrons,you can creatematter that we have never seen before. First, whomever does this has overcome electrical resistance tween each electron from another, then doing this en masse, means a world that transcends Harry Potter or LOTR, because we are dealing then. with a Dungeons and Dragons world of wands, and armor, and magic swords that cut through dragon skin. As for me, I am a 7th level magic user with an armor class of +6, and the ability to frost and fireballs with a hitpoint of 27, in full armor. That would explain a lot. Personally I'm an Elven illusionist (but that is IRL, rather than in DD) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 3 Jun 2015, at 3:47 am, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 02-Jun-2015, at 10:23 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 02 Jun 2015, at 04:18, Samiya Illias wrote: On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the Quran, so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as a reminder to keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that it applies not only to the quantum level, but cascades on to everything. Saying 'In Sha Allah' and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that no matter how earnestly we resolve to do something or how hard we tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this temporal realm, we can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, however whether we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our efforts, is determined and decreed by God. Imagine you convince everybody of this. Then you will convince also the percentage of human having sadical pulse (for a reason or another). So there is a risk that those people believing everything is decreed by God will interpret their sadical pulse as God anger and willingfulness to punish. Regarding the terrible trial of the bani Israel (children of Prophet Jacob), it is mentioned in the Quran: Holy Quran 7:141 -- وَإِذْ أَنْجَيْنَاكُمْ مِنْ آلِ فِرْعَوْنَ يَسُومُونَكُمْ سُوءَ الْعَذَابِ ۖ يُقَتِّلُونَ أَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَيَسْتَحْيُونَ نِسَاءَكُمْ ۚ وَفِي ذَٰلِكُمْ بَلَاءٌ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ عَظِيمٌ And [recall, O Children of Israel], when We saved you from the people of Pharaoh, [who were] afflicting you with the worst torment - killing your sons and keeping your women alive. And in that was a great trial from your Lord. You decide what you think are good and just acts, and then try to find evidence that God measures up to your moral standards. But if you were consistent you would just say that no matter who God causes to suffer through action or omission, that's fine because he's God -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 2 Jun 2015, at 12:18 pm, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Saying 'In Sha Allah' and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that no matter how earnestly we resolve to do something or how hard we tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this temporal realm, we can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, however whether we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our efforts, is determined and decreed by God. So this must be what those Afghani tribesmen were muttering to each other about as they took turns at humping a goat in the desert in that clip I saw on You Tube the other day Kim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 3 June 2015 at 05:23, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: If not you will get a God capable of making 2 odd, and that's too odd! That's rather good. It made me laugh! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 3 June 2015 at 07:05, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: As far as controlling things here is a short paul davies speculation on the universe, reality, mind. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2015/06/todays-galaxy-insight-an-et-technology-beyond-matter.html I'm reliably informed that we can't do anything without matter, so that is clearly nonsense. Here is another guy's but be careful, he might be a shia! http://www.int.washington.edu/users/mjs5/Simulation/Universe/ Interesting summary. Did they mention the breakdown of Lorentz invariance? I guess the cosmoc ray business would cover that. I would say that there isnt' a huge difference between a numerically simulated universe and Max Tegmark's mathematical universe hypothesis (except in the simulation we assume an underlying computer made of ... well, something that isn't just software. But suppose the nesting goes on forever - turtles all the way down, as the writer of LOGO might have put it?) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 3 Jun 2015, at 1:44 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/2/2015 8:35 PM, Samiya Illias wrote: Let's try a different approach. Do you really think that everything just happened on its own and there is no creator behind it? If you do believe that there must be a creator, then try praying to your creator and implore faith and guidance. There are a lot of other possibilities besides just happened and a creator to whom it would make sense to pray. Brent In what sense does it ever make sense to pray to anything? The trouble with this thing called praying is that it is only ever done by those who have a penchant for the supernatural and probably love to imagine that someone is actually listening to their prayer. In this way, such an individual will tend to believe whatever appears to be the first kind of valid response from God. It's not like you enter into an argument or anything with God. If God tells you after listening to your prayers that it is OK to hump a goat, then you will tend to feel OK about it when doing it. Real thinking involves the ability to dispute your perceptions and beliefs and to be able to withhold judgement. It's interesting to note that God never argues with Man about what he wants either, but merely assists Man in all ways. Paul Davies could therefore be right: an unknown entity capable of energy manipulation might be authoring the whole charade. How the fuck would anyone know? To us, such an impious demonic entity (if that's what they are) would be deemed to be God. God has this tendency, as someone once observed, to align his/her/its wishes for usexactly on the same tram-lines of our already preset desires. God only ever wants for Man what Man already wants for himself anyway, so God is then a patsy for the Mafia or the Vatican or the Taliban or whoever has the guns to insist on getting their own way. If God exists, I want this being to know that I will never pray to them, however powerful. This is because I could be mad or at the very least schizophrenic and possibly even homicidal and I probably don't need any further high-level authorization to go out and garrott somebody. As Bruno mentioned, this is what Ghengis-Kahn didn't do. Kim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 3 June 2015 at 15:44, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/2/2015 8:35 PM, Samiya Illias wrote: Let's try a different approach. Do you really think that everything just happened on its own and there is no creator behind it? If you do believe that there must be a creator, then try praying to your creator and implore faith and guidance. There are a lot of other possibilities besides just happened and a creator to whom it would make sense to pray. Indeed. And if there is a creator, that just leaves the origin question open - where did the creator come from? To the best of my knowledge this question isn't tackled in the Bible, Quran, etc. But you'd think that God would know his own origins, and if he's keen for us to believe in him, he'd tell us what they are, so that once wev'e advanced enough in scientific knowledge we'd be able to verify what the holy writ told us (Samiya has suggested that this is the case for some bits of physics and biology - but I don't know of any holy text that tells us that God evolved through natural selection before he created our universe, I'd feel more inclined to believe it if it did). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 6/2/2015 9:11 PM, Kim Jones wrote: God has this tendency, as someone once observed, to align his/her/its wishes for usexactly on the same tram-lines of our already preset desires. God only ever wants for Man what Man already wants for himself anyway, so God is then a patsy for the Mafia or the Vatican or the Taliban or whoever has the guns to insist on getting their own way. You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. - Anne Lamott -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
Any-vay, Dawkins, himself, conjectured that there could be god-like intelligences in the universe. This is a thought that is quite spooky enough, for my primate brain. I wonder, what would you define as a qualification for being a god-like intelligence? Aside from being well-versed in MS Excel spreadsheets, and being an Oracle developer? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Jun 2, 2015 07:57 PM Subject: Re: Samiya proved right div id=AOLMsgPart_2_0c474392-1f9d-40f2-be78-9ab66623e6a8 div dir=ltr div class=aolmail_gmail_extra div class=aolmail_gmail_quote On 3 June 2015 at 11:51, spudboy100 via Everything List span dir=ltra target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a/span wrote: blockquote class=aolmail_gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex font color=black size=2 face=arialWell, I don't guarantee you that it is a simulation, but I will say that its a computation, one that may or may not generate the matter we see and feel. Energy is movement at some point which makes it energetic. Davies was us a wild example of the power of things not yet known or under appreciated. If you can manipulate blocks of electrons,you can creatematter that we have never seen before. First, whomever does this has overcome electrical resistance tween each electron from another, then doing this en masse, means a world that transcends Harry Potter or LOTR, because we are dealing then. with a Dungeons and Dragons world of wands, and armor, and magic swords that cut through dragon skin. As for me, I am a 7th level magic user with an armor class of +6, and the ability to frost and fireballs with a hitpoint of 27, in full armor. /font /blockquote That would explain a lot. Personally I'm an Elven illusionist (but that is IRL, rather than in DD) /div /div /div p/p -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com;everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com/a. To post to this group, send email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a. Visit this group at a target=_blank href=http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list;http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list/a. For more options, visit a target=_blank href=https://groups.google.com/d/optout;https://groups.google.com/d/optout/a. /div -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
That's okay John, I understand! No single one of us really knows how much time we have left -- nobody is promised a long life, but death is a certainty we are bound to meet sooner or later. I share the verses of the Quran as I believe it to be divine guidance. Why my heart believes in the existence of God or why my heart is convinced that the Quran is from God, I suppose I can not really translate in words just the same as you cannot express in words why your heart refuses to believe. I find the Quran to be a luminous book full of knowledge and wisdom beyond what any human can author -- you consider it a human work. I try to share verses which mention nature to help realise that a human could not have authored such knowledge. I really don't know what would comprise evidence for you. Let's try a different approach. Do you really think that everything just happened on its own and there is no creator behind it? If you do believe that there must be a creator, then try praying to your creator and implore faith and guidance. If you have any specific questions, I'll try answering them, and I pray that God helps you find faith. Amen. Samiya On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 1:28 AM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Samiya, let me be rude, for an exchange: do you really think (and believe!) that you are a trustable advocate os God's will and wisdom? You never even justified your God's existence and activity (plans?) except for some threats against not believeing what you said. And I repeat: WHAT YOU SAID (mostly hiding behind YOUR words) assigned to God - or the Script, (which is no better than your word as long as you did not justify the origin of it). And many of this think-tank flock of mostly believers goes for it endlessly. I believe I have little time left yet cannot force myself NOT to go through your escapades about YOUR OWN belief system without believable justification. Sorry for my outburst John M On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the Quran, so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as a reminder to keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that it applies not only to the quantum level, but cascades on to everything. Saying 'In Sha Allah' and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that no matter how earnestly we resolve to do something or how hard we tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this temporal realm, we can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, however whether we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our efforts, is determined and decreed by God. This helps to keep us going even when things don't seem to turn out right, as we are assured that all efforts are being recorded and will be compensated in the Hereafter. I suppose one way to understand it is in terms of a software whose designer codes in all outcomes, and the results, though based on user-choices, are already coded in by the designer. The designer is always in full control and the decision is always as the designer designed it. I suppose I should acknowledge here that, I do find, on the personal level, God's help and facilitation of matters that seem insurmountable to me, yet stating 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] in earnestness makes the matter easy and manageable. Alhamdolillah [All Praise and Thanks to God] Ma Sha Allah: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=$yA#(5:48:31) In Sha Allah: http://quran.com/18/23-24 Samiya Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. Samiya -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves
Re: Samiya proved right
On 3 June 2015 at 14:56, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: So if contact is made to the godlikes, assuming that he, she, it, they, should they be worshipped? No? What if these imaginary guys did something really nice for us? I think we should react to them as seems appropriate under the circumstances (like most things, really). PS See early Star Trek for more details on how to react to godlike beings. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 3 June 2015 at 13:28, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Any-vay, Dawkins, himself, conjectured that there could be god-like intelligences in the universe. This is a thought that is quite spooky enough, for my primate brain. I wonder, what would you define as a qualification for being a god-like intelligence? Aside from being well-versed in MS Excel spreadsheets, and being an Oracle developer? Being a Dungeon Master (or Mistress). Or a setter of cryptic crosswords http://channelcrossword.wordpress.com :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
So if contact is made to the godlikes, assuming that he, she, it, they, should they be worshipped? No? What if these imaginary guys did something really nice for us? Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Jun 2, 2015 09:32 PM Subject: Re: Samiya proved right div id=AOLMsgPart_2_ffc3f010-bd66-459f-bb27-b549a7e3ac90 div dir=ltr div class=aolmail_gmail_extra div class=aolmail_gmail_quote On 3 June 2015 at 13:28, spudboy100 via Everything List span dir=ltra target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a/span wrote: blockquote class=aolmail_gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex Any-vay, Dawkins, himself, conjectured that there could be god-like intelligences in the universe. This is a thought that is quite spooky enough, for my primate brain. I wonder, what would you define as a qualification for being a god-like intelligence? Aside from being well-versed in MS Excel spreadsheets, and being an Oracle developer? span /span /blockquote Being a Dungeon Master (or Mistress). Or a a target=_blank href=http://channelcrossword.wordpress.com;setter of cryptic crosswords/a :-) /div /div /div p/p -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com;everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com/a. To post to this group, send email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a. Visit this group at a target=_blank href=http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list;http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list/a. For more options, visit a target=_blank href=https://groups.google.com/d/optout;https://groups.google.com/d/optout/a. /div -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 6/2/2015 8:35 PM, Samiya Illias wrote: Let's try a different approach. Do you really think that everything just happened on its own and there is no creator behind it? If you do believe that there must be a creator, then try praying to your creator and implore faith and guidance. There are a lot of other possibilities besides just happened and a creator to whom it would make sense to pray. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 3 Jun 2015, at 2:24 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/2/2015 9:11 PM, Kim Jones wrote: God has this tendency, as someone once observed, to align his/her/its wishes for usexactly on the same tram-lines of our already preset desires. God only ever wants for Man what Man already wants for himself anyway, so God is then a patsy for the Mafia or the Vatican or the Taliban or whoever has the guns to insist on getting their own way. You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. - Anne Lamott AMEN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 02 Jun 2015, at 04:18, Samiya Illias wrote: On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the Quran, so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as a reminder to keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that it applies not only to the quantum level, but cascades on to everything. Saying 'In Sha Allah' and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that no matter how earnestly we resolve to do something or how hard we tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this temporal realm, we can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, however whether we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our efforts, is determined and decreed by God. Imagine you convince everybody of this. Then you will convince also the percentage of human having sadical pulse (for a reason or another). So there is a risk that those people believing everything is decreed by God will interpret their sadical pulse as God anger and willingfulness to punish. You get the Ghengis Khan phenomena, who would have said, after having been asked why he raped, tortured and burned a whole land, ---I don't know what those people committed, but I am sure they committed a very great sin for God sending me as a punishment. What you say is again of the type G* \ G. I think. It is true, but once said: it becomes false, and that is a break where the devil can play. This helps to keep us going even when things don't seem to turn out right, as we are assured that all efforts are being recorded and will be compensated in the Hereafter. I suppose one way to understand it is in terms of a software whose designer codes in all outcomes, and the results, though based on user-choices, are already coded in by the designer. The designer is always in full control and the decision is always as the designer designed it. To make sense of God, you need to be careful as omniscience is by itself already contradictory (I can give references). If not you will get a God capable of making 2 odd, and that's too odd! I suppose I should acknowledge here that, I do find, on the personal level, God's help and facilitation of matters that seem insurmountable to me, yet stating 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] in earnestness makes the matter easy and manageable. Alhamdolillah [All Praise and Thanks to God] Good. God is good for personal use only. Only those who lack faith try to convince or eliminate the others. Bruno Ma Sha Allah: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q= $yA#(5:48:31) In Sha Allah: http://quran.com/18/23-24 Samiya Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. Samiya -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: No compulsion when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine. I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis. If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose
Re: Samiya proved right
On 02-Jun-2015, at 10:23 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 02 Jun 2015, at 04:18, Samiya Illias wrote: On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the Quran, so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as a reminder to keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that it applies not only to the quantum level, but cascades on to everything. Saying 'In Sha Allah' and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that no matter how earnestly we resolve to do something or how hard we tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this temporal realm, we can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, however whether we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our efforts, is determined and decreed by God. Imagine you convince everybody of this. Then you will convince also the percentage of human having sadical pulse (for a reason or another). So there is a risk that those people believing everything is decreed by God will interpret their sadical pulse as God anger and willingfulness to punish. Regarding the terrible trial of the bani Israel (children of Prophet Jacob), it is mentioned in the Quran: Holy Quran 7:141 -- وَإِذْ أَنْجَيْنَاكُمْ مِنْ آلِ فِرْعَوْنَ يَسُومُونَكُمْ سُوءَ الْعَذَابِ ۖ يُقَتِّلُونَ أَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَيَسْتَحْيُونَ نِسَاءَكُمْ ۚ وَفِي ذَٰلِكُمْ بَلَاءٌ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ عَظِيمٌ And [recall, O Children of Israel], when We saved you from the people of Pharaoh, [who were] afflicting you with the worst torment - killing your sons and keeping your women alive. And in that was a great trial from your Lord. Samiya You get the Ghengis Khan phenomena, who would have said, after having been asked why he raped, tortured and burned a whole land, ---I don't know what those people committed, but I am sure they committed a very great sin for God sending me as a punishment. What you say is again of the type G* \ G. I think. It is true, but once said: it becomes false, and that is a break where the devil can play. This helps to keep us going even when things don't seem to turn out right, as we are assured that all efforts are being recorded and will be compensated in the Hereafter. I suppose one way to understand it is in terms of a software whose designer codes in all outcomes, and the results, though based on user-choices, are already coded in by the designer. The designer is always in full control and the decision is always as the designer designed it. To make sense of God, you need to be careful as omniscience is by itself already contradictory (I can give references). If not you will get a God capable of making 2 odd, and that's too odd! I suppose I should acknowledge here that, I do find, on the personal level, God's help and facilitation of matters that seem insurmountable to me, yet stating 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] in earnestness makes the matter easy and manageable. Alhamdolillah [All Praise and Thanks to God] Good. God is good for personal use only. Only those who lack faith try to convince or eliminate the others. Bruno Ma Sha Allah: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=$yA#(5:48:31) In Sha Allah: http://quran.com/18/23-24 Samiya Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. Samiya -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden
Re: Samiya proved right
On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the Quran, so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as a reminder to keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that it applies not only to the quantum level, but cascades on to everything. Saying 'In Sha Allah' and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that no matter how earnestly we resolve to do something or how hard we tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this temporal realm, we can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, however whether we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our efforts, is determined and decreed by God. This helps to keep us going even when things don't seem to turn out right, as we are assured that all efforts are being recorded and will be compensated in the Hereafter. I suppose one way to understand it is in terms of a software whose designer codes in all outcomes, and the results, though based on user-choices, are already coded in by the designer. The designer is always in full control and the decision is always as the designer designed it. I suppose I should acknowledge here that, I do find, on the personal level, God's help and facilitation of matters that seem insurmountable to me, yet stating 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] in earnestness makes the matter easy and manageable. Alhamdolillah [All Praise and Thanks to God] Ma Sha Allah: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=$yA#(5:48:31) In Sha Allah: http://quran.com/18/23-24 Samiya Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. Samiya -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: No compulsion when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine. I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis. If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. Now look what you made me do! he says as he tortures you. On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor
Re: Samiya proved right
On 2 June 2015 at 14:18, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the Quran, so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as a reminder to keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that it applies not only to the quantum level, but cascades on to everything. The Quran mentions the Uncertainty Principle??? (If that is really so, then I may be forced to revise my agnosticism...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
LizR: I find it funny if so many thinking minds on this list (and around the world?) take your *...You are simply assuming the truth of what you have so far failed to demonstrate. * seriously, YET the list continues in this endless self-assured worldview debate - some times even including views from OTHER 'religions' as well. So far I have not seen any justification to 'beheadings', 'floggings', 'stonings' and other brutal activity recalling the medieval inhumanities, as pertaining to the goodness of the God believed by such perpetrators. They believe to be honored for their brutality and inhumanity by eternal bliss in Heaven. Any remarks to that? it may be even more relevant than the Creatorship etc. JM On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 7:03 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 May 2015 at 03:24, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. You are simply assuming the truth of what you have so far failed to demonstrate. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 1 June 2015 at 02:36, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: John Pertwee or Tom Baker to the rescue! Behold, The Master has initiated Time Ram! Roger Delgado at the charge. Did you know Pertwee's son play's Alfred the Butler on Gotham? SPECTRE has activated Project Flemming to extort the world-and cause true global warming :-) In the story I'm thinking of it was Patrick Troughton. No I didn't know about that particular role, but I have come across Sean in various parts including Lestrade in Elementary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
Well, Sean Pertwee, in this prequel to Batman, called Gotham, envisages the Batman character, Alfred the butler, taking on the role of raising an orphaned Bruce Wayne. The series, Gotham is a fully realized world, as they say, where the earth of Gotham City is not the earth that we inhabit in this list. No NYC, but instead, a larger, richer, and far, more, corrupt, Gotham. Think Gotham as a mix of the modern era, with the criminal activities, of Chicago during Prohibition, and the drug cartel wars we see in Mexico today. Instead of costumed villains and heroes, crime bosses are mafia Dons, who own and blackmail the local mayor, city council, and giant corporations. In this rendition, Alfred, is not only the butler, but really was the personal security guy, of Bruce's parents (billionaires) with a military SAS background. The bad guys like Penguin, Riddler, and Joker, have very modest starts on their climb to power. The Penguin, as a waiter who becomes a snitch, playing one mafia don, against another, in his ascent in Gotham. You might like it, depending on mood, time, interests, etc. More complex characterization and story arc, including detective Gordon, destined to rise to be police commissioner. High quality acting and cinematics, too. Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, May 31, 2015 06:27 PM Subject: Re: Samiya proved right div id=AOLMsgPart_2_329bb1e3-6527-4f78-85e7-28011efc6518 div dir=ltr div class=aolmail_gmail_extra div class=aolmail_gmail_quote On 1 June 2015 at 02:36, spudboy100 via Everything List span dir=ltra target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a/span wrote: blockquote class=aolmail_gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex font color=black face=arial size=2John font size=2Pertwee or Tom Baker to the rescue! Behold, The Master has initiated Time Ram! Roger Delgado at the charge. Did you know Pertwee's son play's Alfred the Butler on Gotham? SPECTRE has activated Project Flemming to extort the world-and cause true global warming :-)/font/font /blockquote In the story I'm thinking of it was Patrick Troughton. No I didn't know about that particular role, but I have come across Sean in various parts including Lestrade in Elementary /div /div /div p/p -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com;everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com/a. To post to this group, send email to a target=_blank href=mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com;everything-list@googlegroups.com/a. Visit this group at a target=_blank href=http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list;http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list/a. For more options, visit a target=_blank href=https://groups.google.com/d/optout;https://groups.google.com/d/optout/a. /div -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 4:01 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 May 2015 at 03:42, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Which is why I suggest that those who understand science should evaluate the Quranic statements about nature to examine if the author knows what he is talking about. Obviously for this to be a meaningful exercise it should be a double-blind test in which various sacred texts which give similar statements that could be seen as scientific are compared. One would need Biblical scholars, experts in the Norse Eddas, Buddhists and so on to take what they consider meaningful statements, suitably agnostic scholars to translate them if necessary, historians to give suitable interpretations to place them into context, and then a group of people with scientific knowledge, and no knowledge of their origin, to assign a score for how well them measure up. Plus some made up / contemporary statements should be thrown in for comparison. It doesn't have to be that complicated, though it would be wonderful if such a task is undertaken. The Quran, scientific research and other relevant material is easily accessible to all over the Internet now. Each literate individual with access to these resources can initiate their own personal study. All it really requires is an earnest desire to comprehend what might be a message from God. Samiya Taking the word of people who already believe a particular result that the statements from their preferred sacred texts have been correctly translated, interpreted and historically contextualised will not produce any meaningful data. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 June 2015 at 06:37, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: LizR: I find it funny if so many thinking minds on this list (and around the world?) take your ...You are simply assuming the truth of what you have so far failed to demonstrate. seriously, YET the list continues in this endless self-assured worldview debate - some times even including views from OTHER 'religions' as well. So far I have not seen any justification to 'beheadings', 'floggings', 'stonings' and other brutal activity recalling the medieval inhumanities, as pertaining to the goodness of the God believed by such perpetrators. They believe to be honored for their brutality and inhumanity by eternal bliss in Heaven. Any remarks to that? it may be even more relevant than the Creatorship etc. JM I think Samiya would say that if God thinks beheadings, floggings and stonings are good, then they are good, by definition. I hope that was a question. The issues that J Mikes has raised are of an organisational nature, to be implemented by governments after legal evaluation for the maintenance of justice in society. I've gone into the details and shared my understanding of the Quranic injunctions earlier, hence I will not go into those details again. However, I would like to take this opportunity to highlight the actions which are required of individuals seeking 'eternal bliss in Heaven', some of which are: respecting and honouring parents; being kind and caring to family, relatives, friends, neighbours, travellers, etc.; being compassionate towards the poor: feeding the hungry, helping people pay off their debts, freeing the slaves; taking care of orphans and so on. Only recently I was studying some verses and researching the Internet for relevant data, and I was surprised to learn that though slavery was abolished years ago, yet 21-36 million people are still enslaved in various forms and guises. This might be of interest: World Hunger Slavery *Population Growth Food Resources* *Morality Homicide* *Abstract* Quran (6:151, 17:30-31) identifies poverty as the reason for hunger, and dismisses the notion that population growth leads to hunger, explicitly prohibiting the killing of children due to or out of fear of poverty. At another place, the Quran (Chapter 90) exhorts the free citizens to reduce inequality by freeing slaves and feeding the hungry, stating that these are the difficult yet required things to do. Quran (2:177) lists giving of wealth to the needy and freeing of slaves among the righteous deeds. According to the statistics, the agricultural yields are more than enough for the current and forecasted world population, yet one in every nine people on our planet suffers hunger every day! Though decrease in population growth is promoted as a remedy to the problem, yet no direct correlation has been found between population density and hunger. Unjust economic systems lead to Poverty and Inequality, which in turn cause Hunger, Indebtedness and Enslavement! An estimated 21 - 36 million people are enslaved today. Though legal slavery was finally banished from all countries in the world by 1981, yet its only changed in title and form - humans continue to be enslaved by fellow human beings. This article explores the meaning of the divine instruction and guidance in terms of the relevant information available. http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/05/world-hunger-slavery.html Samiya -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 1 June 2015 at 06:37, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: LizR: I find it funny if so many thinking minds on this list (and around the world?) take your ...You are simply assuming the truth of what you have so far failed to demonstrate. seriously, YET the list continues in this endless self-assured worldview debate - some times even including views from OTHER 'religions' as well. So far I have not seen any justification to 'beheadings', 'floggings', 'stonings' and other brutal activity recalling the medieval inhumanities, as pertaining to the goodness of the God believed by such perpetrators. They believe to be honored for their brutality and inhumanity by eternal bliss in Heaven. Any remarks to that? it may be even more relevant than the Creatorship etc. JM I think Samiya would say that if God thinks beheadings, floggings and stonings are good, then they are good, by definition. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 1 June 2015 at 12:32, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 June 2015 at 06:37, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: LizR: I find it funny if so many thinking minds on this list (and around the world?) take your ...You are simply assuming the truth of what you have so far failed to demonstrate. seriously, YET the list continues in this endless self-assured worldview debate - some times even including views from OTHER 'religions' as well. So far I have not seen any justification to 'beheadings', 'floggings', 'stonings' and other brutal activity recalling the medieval inhumanities, as pertaining to the goodness of the God believed by such perpetrators. They believe to be honored for their brutality and inhumanity by eternal bliss in Heaven. Any remarks to that? it may be even more relevant than the Creatorship etc. JM I think Samiya would say that if God thinks beheadings, floggings and stonings are good, then they are good, by definition. I suppose if there really is a God, a Heaven, and a Hell (though I find the idea abhorent and illogical that any loving God would allow Hell to exist) then it's possible to come up with a rational explanation for why they might be good. As Larry Niven had a character suggest in a short story, a rational reason for suicide would be that there really is a Hell, and it gets worst the longer you put off going there, Abolish all doubt and what's left is not faith, but absolute heartless conviction. -- Lesley Hazleton, author of 'The First Muslim,' a new look at the life of Muhammad. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 1 June 2015 at 08:37, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: LizR: I find it funny if so many thinking minds on this list (and around the world?) take your *...You are simply assuming the truth of what you have so far failed to demonstrate. * seriously, YET the list continues in this endless self-assured worldview debate - some times even including views from OTHER 'religions' as well. I'm not sure exactly what you are saying here. Are you talking about some of the things that have been labelled religions at times on this list (like Materialism, comp etc) or are we still on the more traditional religions? So far I have not seen any justification to 'beheadings', 'floggings', 'stonings' and other brutal activity recalling the medieval inhumanities, as pertaining to the goodness of the God believed by such perpetrators. They believe to be honored for their brutality and inhumanity by eternal bliss in Heaven. Any remarks to that? it may be even more relevant than the Creatorship etc. I agree - there is no justification for such activities, carried out in the name of religion, ideology or anything else. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On Monday, June 1, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','stath...@gmail.com'); wrote: On 1 June 2015 at 06:37, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jami...@gmail.com'); wrote: LizR: I find it funny if so many thinking minds on this list (and around the world?) take your ...You are simply assuming the truth of what you have so far failed to demonstrate. seriously, YET the list continues in this endless self-assured worldview debate - some times even including views from OTHER 'religions' as well. So far I have not seen any justification to 'beheadings', 'floggings', 'stonings' and other brutal activity recalling the medieval inhumanities, as pertaining to the goodness of the God believed by such perpetrators. They believe to be honored for their brutality and inhumanity by eternal bliss in Heaven. Any remarks to that? it may be even more relevant than the Creatorship etc. JM I think Samiya would say that if God thinks beheadings, floggings and stonings are good, then they are good, by definition. I hope that was a question. The issues that J Mikes has raised are of an organisational nature, to be implemented by governments after legal evaluation for the maintenance of justice in society. I've gone into the details and shared my understanding of the Quranic injunctions earlier, hence I will not go into those details again. However, I would like to take this opportunity to highlight the actions which are required of individuals seeking 'eternal bliss in Heaven', some of which are: respecting and honouring parents; being kind and caring to family, relatives, friends, neighbours, travellers, etc.; being compassionate towards the poor: feeding the hungry, helping people pay off their debts, freeing the slaves; taking care of orphans and so on. Only recently I was studying some verses and researching the Internet for relevant data, and I was surprised to learn that though slavery was abolished years ago, yet 21-36 million people are still enslaved in various forms and guises. This might be of interest: World Hunger Slavery *Population Growth Food Resources* *Morality Homicide* *Abstract* Quran (6:151, 17:30-31) identifies poverty as the reason for hunger, and dismisses the notion that population growth leads to hunger, explicitly prohibiting the killing of children due to or out of fear of poverty. At another place, the Quran (Chapter 90) exhorts the free citizens to reduce inequality by freeing slaves and feeding the hungry, stating that these are the difficult yet required things to do. Quran (2:177) lists giving of wealth to the needy and freeing of slaves among the righteous deeds. According to the statistics, the agricultural yields are more than enough for the current and forecasted world population, yet one in every nine people on our planet suffers hunger every day! Though decrease in population growth is promoted as a remedy to the problem, yet no direct correlation has been found between population density and hunger. Unjust economic systems lead to Poverty and Inequality, which in turn cause Hunger, Indebtedness and Enslavement! An estimated 21 - 36 million people are enslaved today. Though legal slavery was finally banished from all countries in the world by 1981, yet its only changed in title and form - humans continue to be enslaved by fellow human beings. This article explores the meaning of the divine instruction and guidance in terms of the relevant information available. http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/05/world-hunger-slavery.html What you're doing is deciding (using your own mind) what is right, then searching in the Quran to see if it agrees with you. But that is not how it works if the Quran is God's word and God is always right. Instead, if you find something in the Quran that contradicts you, you should admit that you were wrong. For example, if you think slavery is wrong but it can be shown to you that the Quran says slavery is right, then you should either change your view of the morality of slavery or admit that you are against God. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 31 May 2015, at 9:03 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 May 2015 at 03:24, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: God created humans How do you know FFS? There are by now a few credible alternative scenarios. Why does G have to be the grandmother of every bloody thing? Can't someone or something else be responsible for humans other than God? Personally, I think G would be embarrassed to be associated with the likes of humans. If God created humans then he/she/it is certainly something of an underachiever. Just look at the world. and knows everything about us and within us. You are starting to make God sound almost as big as the NSA and Google. You have to come up to speed on this issue. God doesn't know as much as the NSA about you, Samiya. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. Ha hahaaa,, splutter, gurgle, cough, gasp The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. So what is it, HUMAN, that you know about the doings and otherwise of those who are not, like yourself, human? You give yourself airs and graces. You are making all of this up as you go along. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. You are starting to sound like His Eminence The Very Reverend Cardinal George Pell The Smell From Hell who finally has Pope Bergoglio cornered on the Horns of the Devil. You religious people have all had your brains hijacked by something truly evil that makes you think you know something about what no human can possibly know. You talk as though you have God in your hip pocket and you can pull him/her/it out and like a ventriloquist, put words in the mouth of the God sock puppet. But they are your words, you mental midget. Nobody on this list gives a flying fuck about any Holy Book, their own or anyone else's. We eat Holy books on our cornflakes for breakfast. You can get at least ten minute's warmth out of a Qu'ran or a St James in the dead of winter. You are simply assuming the truth of what you have so far failed to demonstrate. To say the bloody least Kim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 1 June 2015 at 14:12, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 4:01 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 May 2015 at 03:42, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Which is why I suggest that those who understand science should evaluate the Quranic statements about nature to examine if the author knows what he is talking about. Obviously for this to be a meaningful exercise it should be a double-blind test in which various sacred texts which give similar statements that could be seen as scientific are compared. One would need Biblical scholars, experts in the Norse Eddas, Buddhists and so on to take what they consider meaningful statements, suitably agnostic scholars to translate them if necessary, historians to give suitable interpretations to place them into context, and then a group of people with scientific knowledge, and no knowledge of their origin, to assign a score for how well them measure up. Plus some made up / contemporary statements should be thrown in for comparison. It doesn't have to be that complicated, though it would be wonderful if such a task is undertaken. The Quran, scientific research and other relevant material is easily accessible to all over the Internet now. Each literate individual with access to these resources can initiate their own personal study. All it really requires is an earnest desire to comprehend what might be a message from God. If it isn't that complicated, the results will be meaningless. That is the point of double blind tests - to avoid preconception and bias on the part of the experimenters and the experimental subjects. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
Well, I am not supporting that life is an illusion, sort of thing, because simply put, if one drops a hammer on one's toes, the pain is still there, whether the world is real or not. What I suggest is that it's a great computation, maybe a simulation, maybe the real combined with a sim, maybe something we do not have a term for as yet?* Certainly, if you gather ideas from physicists and philosophers over at the FQXI website (Funded by the Templeton Foundation) who come up with very esoteric ideas that somehow sound convincing, to me. The old religious guys of centuries ago did their best. However, their beliefs that they met with angels in caves or God on a mountain top, seem less likely to me. In fact, for me, the more plausible God and angels now seem, the less likely the old guys actually met with somebody real. Instead of God I could say Mind, and instead of angels, I could say AI's/software personalities, the soul becomes a mind clone, etc. *The universe looks more like a great thought then a great machine. -Physicist, James Jeans. And, philosophers of science like John Leslie, many great thoughts, many great machines, maybe at some point these become the same, depending on who is thinking, such...thoughts. -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 5:11 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right That is the analogy I also used to understand and explain with some years ago. It helps to make sense of it. However, the Quran states that it has been created in Truth / Reality, hence I hesitate to use that analogy. Samiya On 31-May-2015, at 1:13 am, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Well, it sort of sabotaged technological progress for what was then excellent, progress. It's a reasonable thing to say, the we need God and He doesn't need us. However, just by the way the world works, the lack of cause and effect in personal lives, disease, earthquakes, etc. I make no claims about God. It might be a better neutral way to describe God as a Mind, and worry about how we think about it later. This is probably trivial and shallow, but I try to look at things from the purely human point of view-however miserable and flawed humans are. Moreover, I see the universe as increasingly looking like a great program, or a simulation. Thus, the actually cosmology of the astronomers becomes a secondary thing, because no matter what it's shape or age, it all functions like a computation. -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 1:05 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. Samiya -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware
Re: Samiya proved right
Its probably just the way I remembered it. -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 7:07 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On 31 May 2015 at 03:32, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Twas brillig as slithey toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe all mimsy were the borogroves as the ramprats outgrabe I'm not sure why you (mis)quoted this, but from memory the correct version is more like this: Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimbal in the wabe All mimsey were the borogroves And the mome raths outgrabe The rest I'm less certain about. (Something about Beware the Bandersnatch my son - the claws that catch, the jaws that bite...) But anyway, I'd like to enter it into my scientific meaning found in sacred texts experiment. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
Agreed. Philosopher, John Leslie, uses the terms ethical requiredness, when applying this to God. It's somehow easier for most, emotionally, simply to drop the God thing, as an expectation in their lives. High expectations can mean high disappointments. Physicist, Guilio Prisco suggests that humanities descendents take up the burden of God as an idea, on making things better in life. -Original Message- From: Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 7:14 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On Sunday, May 31, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya Then you have a different moral standard for God. If a human tortures someone for fun, that's bad, but if God does it, that's fine. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
No No No! You've all got it wrong again! It's not the Trump of Doom, you sillies. It's the Doom of Trump! See? http://nypost.com/2015/05/30/stop-pretending-donald-trump-is-not-running-for-president/ -Original Message- From: Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:47 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right Anyway, look - screw all this tedious God stuff already. Meanwhile back on topic about The Trump of Doom: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/weather-wars.html Kim On 31 May 2015, at 11:56 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 May 2015 at 11:14, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, May 31, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya Then you have a different moral standard for God. If a human tortures someone for fun, that's bad, but if God does it, that's fine. If a human demands worship and claims to love everyone while punishing them for going against his laws, we call him a narcissistic psychopath. But when God does it, that's fine. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. Kim Jones B.Mus.GDTL Email: kimjo...@ozemail.com.au Mobile:0450 963 719 Landline: 02 9389 4239 Web:http://www.eportfolio.kmjcommp.com “I’m not saying there aren’t a lot of dangerous people out there. I am saying a lot of them are in government - Russell Brand -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
John Pertwee or Tom Baker to the rescue! Behold, The Master has initiated Time Ram! Roger Delgado at the charge. Did you know Pertwee's son play's Alfred the Butler on Gotham? SPECTRE has activated Project Flemming to extort the world-and cause true global warming :-) -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, May 31, 2015 12:18 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right PS That set off volcanoes from a distance as a weapon idea was used in a Dr Who story in the 1960s. (Not sure if any of Bond's enemies ever got around to that one...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
Well, it sort of sabotaged technological progress for what was then excellent, progress. It's a reasonable thing to say, the we need God and He doesn't need us. However, just by the way the world works, the lack of cause and effect in personal lives, disease, earthquakes, etc. I make no claims about God. It might be a better neutral way to describe God as a Mind, and worry about how we think about it later. This is probably trivial and shallow, but I try to look at things from the purely human point of view-however miserable and flawed humans are. Moreover, I see the universe as increasingly looking like a great program, or a simulation. Thus, the actually cosmology of the astronomers becomes a secondary thing, because no matter what it's shape or age, it all functions like a computation. -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 1:05 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. Samiya -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: No compulsion when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine. I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis. If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. Now look what you made me do! he says as he tortures you. On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote
Re: Samiya proved right
On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. Samiya -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: No compulsion when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine. I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis. If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. Now look what you made me do! he says as he tortures you. On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our reality. Samiya http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], Am I not your Lord? They said, Yes, we have testified. [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, Indeed, we were of this unaware
Re: Samiya proved right
That is the analogy I also used to understand and explain with some years ago. It helps to make sense of it. However, the Quran states that it has been created in Truth / Reality, hence I hesitate to use that analogy. Samiya On 31-May-2015, at 1:13 am, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Well, it sort of sabotaged technological progress for what was then excellent, progress. It's a reasonable thing to say, the we need God and He doesn't need us. However, just by the way the world works, the lack of cause and effect in personal lives, disease, earthquakes, etc. I make no claims about God. It might be a better neutral way to describe God as a Mind, and worry about how we think about it later. This is probably trivial and shallow, but I try to look at things from the purely human point of view-however miserable and flawed humans are. Moreover, I see the universe as increasingly looking like a great program, or a simulation. Thus, the actually cosmology of the astronomers becomes a secondary thing, because no matter what it's shape or age, it all functions like a computation. -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 1:05 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. Samiya -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: No compulsion when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine. I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis. If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. Now look what you made me do! he says as he tortures you. On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may
Re: Samiya proved right
On 31 May 2015 at 03:32, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Twas brillig as slithey toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe all mimsy were the borogroves as the ramprats outgrabe I'm not sure why you (mis)quoted this, but from memory the correct version is more like this: Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimbal in the wabe All mimsey were the borogroves And the mome raths outgrabe The rest I'm less certain about. (Something about Beware the Bandersnatch my son - the claws that catch, the jaws that bite...) But anyway, I'd like to enter it into my scientific meaning found in sacred texts experiment. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
PS That set off volcanoes from a distance as a weapon idea was used in a Dr Who story in the 1960s. (Not sure if any of Bond's enemies ever got around to that one...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 31 May 2015 at 15:47, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Anyway, look - screw all this tedious God stuff already. Meanwhile back on topic about The Trump of Doom: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/weather-wars.html Wow. Mind you, I suspect that America has been manipulating the climate for decades (as has everyone else). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 31 May 2015 at 11:14, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, May 31, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya Then you have a different moral standard for God. If a human tortures someone for fun, that's bad, but if God does it, that's fine. If a human demands worship and claims to love everyone while punishing them for going against his laws, we call him a narcissistic psychopath. But when God does it, that's fine. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 31 May 2015 at 03:42, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Which is why I suggest that those who understand science should evaluate the Quranic statements about nature to examine if the author knows what he is talking about. Obviously for this to be a meaningful exercise it should be a double-blind test in which various sacred texts which give similar statements that could be seen as scientific are compared. One would need Biblical scholars, experts in the Norse Eddas, Buddhists and so on to take what they consider meaningful statements, suitably agnostic scholars to translate them if necessary, historians to give suitable interpretations to place them into context, and then a group of people with scientific knowledge, and no knowledge of their origin, to assign a score for how well them measure up. Plus some made up / contemporary statements should be thrown in for comparison. Taking the word of people who already believe a particular result that the statements from their preferred sacred texts have been correctly translated, interpreted and historically contextualised will not produce any meaningful data. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 31 May 2015 at 03:24, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. You are simply assuming the truth of what you have so far failed to demonstrate. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On Sunday, May 31, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya Then you have a different moral standard for God. If a human tortures someone for fun, that's bad, but if God does it, that's fine. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
Anyway, look - screw all this tedious God stuff already. Meanwhile back on topic about The Trump of Doom: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/weather-wars.html http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/weather-wars.html Kim On 31 May 2015, at 11:56 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 May 2015 at 11:14, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com mailto:stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, May 31, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com mailto:samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya Then you have a different moral standard for God. If a human tortures someone for fun, that's bad, but if God does it, that's fine. If a human demands worship and claims to love everyone while punishing them for going against his laws, we call him a narcissistic psychopath. But when God does it, that's fine. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout https://groups.google.com/d/optout. Kim Jones B.Mus.GDTL Email: kimjo...@ozemail.com.au Mobile:0450 963 719 Landline: 02 9389 4239 Web:http://www.eportfolio.kmjcommp.com “I’m not saying there aren’t a lot of dangerous people out there. I am saying a lot of them are in government - Russell Brand -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: No compulsion when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine. I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis. If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. Now look what you made me do! he says as he tortures you. On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our reality. Samiya http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], Am I not your Lord? They said, Yes, we have testified. [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, Indeed, we were of this unaware. Or [lest] you say, It was only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done? And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return. http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you; then He will take you in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most decrepit [old] age so that he will not know, after [having had] knowledge, a thing. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And Allah has made for you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your mates sons and grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things. Then in falsehood do they believe and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve? And they worship besides Allah that which does not possess for them [the power of] provision from the heavens
Re: Samiya proved right
Twas brillig as slithey toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe all mimsy were the borogroves as the ramprats outgrabe -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, May 29, 2015 9:42 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right No compulsion when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine. I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis. If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. Now look what you made me do! he says as he tortures you. On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illiassamiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannoustath...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our reality. Samiya http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], Am I not your Lord? They said, Yes, we have testified. [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, Indeed, we were of this unaware. Or [lest] you say, It was only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done? And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses
Re: Samiya proved right
Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: No compulsion when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine. I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis. If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. Now look what you made me do! he says as he tortures you. On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion
Re: Samiya proved right
On 30-May-2015, at 5:41 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our reality. The point is, if there's not enough evidence for a rational, impartial person to believe something, it is morally wrong to punish them for not believing it. For example, if the government passes a law and keeps it secret, allowing only easily dismissed rumours of it to get out, it is morally wrong to then reveal the law and punish people who didn't obey it. Note that this has nothing to do with whether the belief is good or bad - only if it is true. I could say that the Quran is a wonderful document, but unfortunately there is insufficient evidence that it is true; or alternatively, that it is an evil document, but unfortunately the evidence suggests that it is true. Which is why I suggest that those who understand science should evaluate the Quranic statements about nature to examine if the author knows what he is talking about. As per my understanding, nobody is being asked for irrational belief. There is enough evidence in nature for any keen mind to know that their must be a creator behind all this, enough evidence from history to know that there cannot be more than one master-king, otherwise everything would be in chaos, and multiple messengers, prophets and scriptures have been sent for guidance. Irrespective of the behaviour and actions of Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, people of any faith or the lack of it, we must remember that each one of us will be judged individually and rewarded according to our beliefs and actions, taking into account all our limitations and all our efforts. There will be no injustice! Samiya -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our reality. Samiya http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], Am I not your Lord? They said, Yes, we have testified. [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, Indeed, we were of this unaware. Or [lest] you say, It was only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done? And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return. http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you; then He will take you in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most decrepit [old] age so that he will not know, after [having had] knowledge, a thing. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And Allah has made for you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your mates sons and grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things. Then in falsehood do they believe and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve? And they worship besides Allah that which does not possess for them [the power of] provision from the heavens and the earth at all, and [in fact], they are unable. So do not assert similarities to Allah . Indeed, Allah knows and you do not know. Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and unable to do a thing and he to whom We have provided from Us good provision, so he spends from it secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? Praise to Allah ! But most of them do not know. And Allah presents an example of two men, one of them dumb and unable to do a thing, while he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, he brings no good. Is he equal to one who commands justice, while he is on a straight path? And to Allah belongs the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth. And the command for the Hour is not but as a glance of the eye or even nearer. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
Re: Samiya proved right
On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','stath...@gmail.com'); wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','samiyaill...@gmail.com'); wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our reality. The point is, if there's not enough evidence for a rational, impartial person to believe something, it is morally wrong to punish them for not believing it. For example, if the government passes a law and keeps it secret, allowing only easily dismissed rumours of it to get out, it is morally wrong to then reveal the law and punish people who didn't obey it. Note that this has nothing to do with whether the belief is good or bad - only if it is true. I could say that the Quran is a wonderful document, but unfortunately there is insufficient evidence that it is true; or alternatively, that it is an evil document, but unfortunately the evidence suggests that it is true. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
No compulsion when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine. I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis. If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. Now look what you made me do! he says as he tortures you. On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our reality. Samiya http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], Am I not your Lord? They said, Yes, we have testified. [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, Indeed, we were of this unaware. Or [lest] you say, It was only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done? And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return. http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you; then He will take you in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most decrepit [old] age so that he will not know, after [having had] knowledge, a thing. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And Allah has made for you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your mates sons and grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things. Then in falsehood do they believe and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve? And they worship besides Allah that which does not possess for them [the power of] provision from the heavens and the earth at all, and [in fact], they are unable. So do not assert similarities to Allah . Indeed, Allah knows and you do not know. Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and unable to do a thing and he to whom We have provided from Us good provision, so he spends from it secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? Praise to Allah ! But most of them do not know. And Allah presents an example of two men, one of them dumb and unable to do a thing, while he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, he brings no good. Is he equal to one who commands justice, while
Re: Samiya proved right
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], Am I not your Lord? They said, Yes, we have testified. [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, Indeed, we were of this unaware. Or [lest] you say, It was only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done? And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return. http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you; then He will take you in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most decrepit [old] age so that he will not know, after [having had] knowledge, a thing. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And Allah has made for you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your mates sons and grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things. Then in falsehood do they believe and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve? And they worship besides Allah that which does not possess for them [the power of] provision from the heavens and the earth at all, and [in fact], they are unable. So do not assert similarities to Allah . Indeed, Allah knows and you do not know. Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and unable to do a thing and he to whom We have provided from Us good provision, so he spends from it secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? Praise to Allah ! But most of them do not know. And Allah presents an example of two men, one of them dumb and unable to do a thing, while he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, he brings no good. Is he equal to one who commands justice, while he is on a straight path? And to Allah belongs the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth. And the command for the Hour is not but as a glance of the eye or even nearer. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 30 May 2015 at 07:01, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! It isn't an analogy, it's a fact of human psychology. Clearly people have projected their own nature onto a supposed supreme being, making the supreme being out to be some sort of emotionally crippled sadist. I refuse to give credence to a God that intends to torture anyone who doesn't believe in it for eternity, and I suggest you consider that with an open mind yourself. Clearly *people* wrote those particular lines from your allegedly divine text in order to control other people, and the same is true of the Bible and any other holy writ that uses crude threats to force other people to obey an elite group (such as priests). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lizj...@gmail.com'); wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','samiyaill...@gmail.com'); wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as victim blaming. It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's she was asking for it. That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], Am I not your Lord? They said, Yes, we have testified. [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, Indeed, we were of this unaware. Or [lest] you say, It was only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done? And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return. http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you; then He will take you in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most decrepit [old] age so that he will not know, after [having had] knowledge, a thing. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And Allah has made for you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your mates sons and grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things. Then in falsehood do they believe and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve? And they worship besides Allah that which does not possess for them [the power of] provision from the heavens and the earth at all, and [in fact], they are unable. So do not assert similarities to Allah . Indeed, Allah knows and you do not know. Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and unable to do a thing and he to whom We have provided from Us good provision, so he spends from it secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? Praise to Allah ! But most of them do not know. And Allah presents an example of two men, one of them dumb and unable to do a thing, while he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, he brings no good. Is he equal to one who commands justice, while he is on a straight path? And to Allah belongs the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth. And the command for the Hour is not but as a glance of the eye or even nearer. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com'); . To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','everything-list@googlegroups.com');. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com'); . To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','everything-list@googlegroups.com');. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at
Re: Samiya proved right
Seems to be Gaia flatulences 2015-05-28 11:22 GMT+02:00 LizR lizj...@gmail.com: Apparently the Last Trump is being heard around the world... http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/what-is-causing-the-strange-trumpet-sounds-in-the-sky-all-over-the-world -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
A blast from the past. Wasn't it Robert Heinlein who wrote, one man's theology is another man's belly laugh? -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, May 28, 2015 3:26 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right Liz, The Quran speaks of one single blast which will kill and destroy everything, and another which will cause resurrection. When that is to occur, only God has knowledge of it. However, we have been informed that it is approaching closer and closer. The article you quoted has Biblical quotes. That all scriptures are sent from God is an article of faith for us. However, its better that I leave it to someone else who has studied the Bible in depth to comment upon the end-of-times signs in it. As regards HAARP, etc, my understanding is that humans will transgress all reasonable bounds to toy with Creation, and try to corrupt the planet and bring harm to it and all who dwell upon it. In the past, many mighty yet criminal nations were warned: when they refused to heed the warnings of the messengers, even though the signs became clear to them, they were then destroyed for their crimes. Scriptures and mythology have many references and legends, and there are many ruins to wonder at what might have been. I'm posting below some relevant verses/links for your perusal: http://quran.com/21/1 Their reckoning draweth nigh for mankind, while they turn away in heedlessness. http://quran.com/7/187 They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the Hour: when is its arrival? Say, Its knowledge is only with my Lord. None will reveal its time except Him. It lays heavily upon the heavens and the earth. It will not come upon you except unexpectedly. They ask you as if you are familiar with it. Say, Its knowledge is only with Allah , but most of the people do not know. http://quran.com/39/68 And the trumpet is blown, and all who are in the heavens and all who are in the earth swoon away, save him whom Allah willeth. Then it is blown a second time, and behold them standing waiting! http://quran.com/36/48-52 And they say, When is this promise, if you should be truthful? They do not await except one blast which will seize them while they are disputing. And they will not be able [to give] any instruction, nor to their people can they return. And the Horn will be blown; and at once from the graves to their Lord they will hasten. They will say, O woe to us! Who has raised us up from our sleeping place? [The reply will be], This is what the Most Merciful had promised, and the messengers told the truth. http://quran.com/101/1-5 The Calamity! What is the Calamity? Ah, what will convey unto thee what the Calamity is! A day wherein mankind will be as thickly-scattered moths And the mountains will become as carded wool. http://quran.com/99 When Earth is shaken with her (final) earthquake And Earth yieldeth up her burdens, And man saith: What aileth her? That day she will relate her chronicles, Because thy Lord inspireth her. That day mankind will issue forth in scattered groups to be shown their deeds. And whoso doeth good an atom's weight will see it then, And whoso doeth ill an atom's weight will see it then. http://quran.com/30/30 So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah . That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know. http://corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=trumpet Samiya On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 8:57 AM, LizRlizj...@gmail.com wrote: Wow! I'm impressed by the speed of the response and the response itself. Thanks! On 28 May 2015 at 23:53, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/04/13/aquiess-international-inc-electromagnetic-rainmaking-technology/ On 28 May 2015, at 9:47 pm, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: https://www.facebook.com/MrDiscontinuity/posts/978314172187161 On 28 May 2015, at 9:44 pm, Kim Joneskimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: It's
Re: Samiya proved right
Liz, The Quran speaks of one single blast which will kill and destroy everything, and another which will cause resurrection. When that is to occur, only God has knowledge of it. However, we have been informed that it is approaching closer and closer. The article you quoted has Biblical quotes. That all scriptures are sent from God is an article of faith for us. However, its better that I leave it to someone else who has studied the Bible in depth to comment upon the end-of-times signs in it. As regards HAARP, etc, my understanding is that humans will transgress all reasonable bounds to toy with Creation, and try to corrupt the planet and bring harm to it and all who dwell upon it. In the past, many mighty yet criminal nations were warned: when they refused to heed the warnings of the messengers, even though the signs became clear to them, they were then destroyed for their crimes. Scriptures and mythology have many references and legends, and there are many ruins to wonder at what might have been. I'm posting below some relevant verses/links for your perusal: http://quran.com/21/1 Their reckoning draweth nigh for mankind, while they turn away in heedlessness. http://quran.com/7/187 They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the Hour: when is its arrival? Say, Its knowledge is only with my Lord. None will reveal its time except Him. It lays heavily upon the heavens and the earth. It will not come upon you except unexpectedly. They ask you as if you are familiar with it. Say, Its knowledge is only with Allah , but most of the people do not know. http://quran.com/39/68 And the trumpet is blown, and all who are in the heavens and all who are in the earth swoon away, save him whom Allah willeth. Then it is blown a second time, and behold them standing waiting! http://quran.com/36/48-52 And they say, When is this promise, if you should be truthful? They do not await except one blast which will seize them while they are disputing. And they will not be able [to give] any instruction, nor to their people can they return. And the Horn will be blown; and at once from the graves to their Lord they will hasten. They will say, O woe to us! Who has raised us up from our sleeping place? [The reply will be], This is what the Most Merciful had promised, and the messengers told the truth. http://quran.com/101/1-5 The Calamity! What is the Calamity? Ah, what will convey unto thee what the Calamity is! A day wherein mankind will be as thickly-scattered moths And the mountains will become as carded wool. http://quran.com/99 When Earth is shaken with her (final) earthquake And Earth yieldeth up her burdens, And man saith: What aileth her? That day she will relate her chronicles, Because thy Lord inspireth her. That day mankind will issue forth in scattered groups to be shown their deeds. And whoso doeth good an atom's weight will see it then, And whoso doeth ill an atom's weight will see it then. http://quran.com/30/30 So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah . That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know. http://corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=trumpet Samiya On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 8:57 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Wow! I'm impressed by the speed of the response and the response itself. Thanks! On 28 May 2015 at 23:53, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/04/13/aquiess-international-inc-electromagnetic-rainmaking-technology/ On 28 May 2015, at 9:47 pm, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: https://www.facebook.com/MrDiscontinuity/posts/978314172187161 On 28 May 2015, at 9:44 pm, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: It's the sound made by geoengineering - firing electromagnetic pulse waves into the atmosphere to affect weather change. HAARP. And other things they don't ring you up to tell you they are doing. No, they don't announce on the evening news that mankind has figured out how to toy with the world's weather. Some of it might even be for your good. Kim On 28 May 2015, at 7:22 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently the Last Trump is being heard around the world... http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/what-is-causing-the-strange-trumpet-sounds-in-the-sky-all-over-the-world -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
Re: Samiya proved right
On 28 May 2015, at 13:53, Kim Jones wrote: http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/04/13/aquiess-international-inc-electromagnetic-rainmaking-technology/ To make rain!? At least this would explain why we don't hear those trumpet sounds in Belgium ... Bruno On 28 May 2015, at 9:47 pm, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: https://www.facebook.com/MrDiscontinuity/posts/978314172187161 On 28 May 2015, at 9:44 pm, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: It's the sound made by geoengineering - firing electromagnetic pulse waves into the atmosphere to affect weather change. HAARP. And other things they don't ring you up to tell you they are doing. No, they don't announce on the evening news that mankind has figured out how to toy with the world's weather. Some of it might even be for your good. Kim On 28 May 2015, at 7:22 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently the Last Trump is being heard around the world... http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/what-is-causing-the-strange-trumpet-sounds-in-the-sky-all-over-the-world -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 29 May 2015 at 07:26, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Liz, The Quran speaks of one single blast which will kill and destroy everything, and another which will cause resurrection. When that is to occur, only God has knowledge of it. However, we have been informed that it is approaching closer and closer. That is of course true of all future events (but I expect mean the date is being moved forward?) The article you quoted has Biblical quotes. That all scriptures are sent from God is an article of faith for us. However, its better that I leave it to someone else who has studied the Bible in depth to comment upon the end-of-times signs in it. As regards HAARP, etc, my understanding is that humans will transgress all reasonable bounds to toy with Creation, and try to corrupt the planet and bring harm to it and all who dwell upon it. In the past, many mighty yet criminal nations were warned: when they refused to heed the warnings of the messengers, even though the signs became clear to them, they were then destroyed for their crimes. Scriptures and mythology have many references and legends, and there are many ruins to wonder at what might have been. To be fair most of those collapses are now well explained by archaeologists, generally in terms of what today seem relatively minor ecological catastrophes but at the time were sufficiently devastating that they brought down entire city-states. Of course in those days it was possible to move to a new spot and start again, hence the idea that civilisation is cyclic ... but I think to blame these events on divine intervention would require something other than the currently available evidence, which all seems to point to natural causes (at least if Ronald Wright is to be believed). Obviously these things get mythologised and turned into the wrath of God in retrospect, but that is just normal human nature at work - *schadenfreude* and all that. I'm posting below some relevant verses/links for your perusal: http://quran.com/21/1 Their reckoning draweth nigh for mankind, while they turn away in heedlessness. http://quran.com/7/187 They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the Hour: when is its arrival? Say, Its knowledge is only with my Lord. None will reveal its time except Him. It lays heavily upon the heavens and the earth. It will not come upon you except unexpectedly. They ask you as if you are familiar with it. Say, Its knowledge is only with Allah , but most of the people do not know. http://quran.com/39/68 And the trumpet is blown, and all who are in the heavens and all who are in the earth swoon away, save him whom Allah willeth. Then it is blown a second time, and behold them standing waiting! http://quran.com/36/48-52 And they say, When is this promise, if you should be truthful? They do not await except one blast which will seize them while they are disputing. And they will not be able [to give] any instruction, nor to their people can they return. And the Horn will be blown; and at once from the graves to their Lord they will hasten. They will say, O woe to us! Who has raised us up from our sleeping place? [The reply will be], This is what the Most Merciful had promised, and the messengers told the truth. http://quran.com/101/1-5 The Calamity! What is the Calamity? Ah, what will convey unto thee what the Calamity is! A day wherein mankind will be as thickly-scattered moths And the mountains will become as carded wool. http://quran.com/99 When Earth is shaken with her (final) earthquake And Earth yieldeth up her burdens, And man saith: What aileth her? That day she will relate her chronicles, Because thy Lord inspireth her. That day mankind will issue forth in scattered groups to be shown their deeds. And whoso doeth good an atom's weight will see it then, And whoso doeth ill an atom's weight will see it then. http://quran.com/30/30 So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah . That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know. http://corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=trumpet Those mostly sound very similar to the Christian version (the Last Trump - in this case meaning trumpet, or a similar instrument). The ultimate wake-up call, which even returns the dead to life. Actually I'm surprised that the Quran's version IS so similar, although I suppose I shouldn't be - we now know that the Middle Eastern religions all have fairly similar origins, I think? Plus links to the Egyptian religion (Jesus=Osiris etc, IIRC) The Christian version involves the dead being resurrected physically, reagrdless of the manner of their death or whether they were buried, cremated, etc. This would cause the appearance of around 100 billion people (if the introduction to 2001 is to be believed). Approximately one for each star in the galaxy. (Maybe God will
Re: Samiya proved right
Was it Time Enough for Love, Friday, or The Number of the Beast? -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, May 28, 2015 7:40 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On 29 May 2015 at 09:59, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: A blast from the past. Wasn't it Robert Heinlein who wrote, one man's theology is another man's belly laugh? It sounds like him, although I seem to recall he got more religious in his old age. Or maybe his religion was based more on himself? (Dead woman after brain transplant still calls him boss etc) I think he was probably reincarnated as David Bowie. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
You mean the yes boss ? TEFL I think. They were getting far less readable after SIASL (TMIAHM was OK I seem to remember, but by the 60s he was getting away from those short snappy stories I grew up on). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On 29 May 2015 at 09:59, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: A blast from the past. Wasn't it Robert Heinlein who wrote, one man's theology is another man's belly laugh? It sounds like him, although I seem to recall he got more religious in his old age. Or maybe his religion was based more on himself? (Dead woman after brain transplant still calls him boss etc) I think he was probably reincarnated as David Bowie. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 7:38 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 07:26, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Liz, The Quran speaks of one single blast which will kill and destroy everything, and another which will cause resurrection. When that is to occur, only God has knowledge of it. However, we have been informed that it is approaching closer and closer. That is of course true of all future events (but I expect mean the date is being moved forward?) No, I don't think the date is being moved - it will happen at its designated time. I think it means that we humans are running out of time. We are here to work for a beautiful eternal future in the Gardens of the Hereafter. If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. http://quran.com/21 and http://quran.com/103 may be of interest. The article you quoted has Biblical quotes. That all scriptures are sent from God is an article of faith for us. However, its better that I leave it to someone else who has studied the Bible in depth to comment upon the end-of-times signs in it. As regards HAARP, etc, my understanding is that humans will transgress all reasonable bounds to toy with Creation, and try to corrupt the planet and bring harm to it and all who dwell upon it. In the past, many mighty yet criminal nations were warned: when they refused to heed the warnings of the messengers, even though the signs became clear to them, they were then destroyed for their crimes. Scriptures and mythology have many references and legends, and there are many ruins to wonder at what might have been. To be fair most of those collapses are now well explained by archaeologists, generally in terms of what today seem relatively minor ecological catastrophes but at the time were sufficiently devastating that they brought down entire city-states. Of course in those days it was possible to move to a new spot and start again, hence the idea that civilisation is cyclic ... but I think to blame these events on divine intervention would require something other than the currently available evidence, which all seems to point to natural causes (at least if Ronald Wright is to be believed). Obviously these things get mythologised and turned into the wrath of God in retrospect, but that is just normal human nature at work - *schadenfreude* and all that. History is mostly 'intelligent' 'educated' guesses at what may have been. The archaeologists may be right or they may be wrong. As I believe the scripture is from God, and as I take it literally, I believe that the ancient civilisations were far mightier and very advanced, perhaps even travelling to space or doing genetic experimentation. I know it sounds like sci-fi and I need to put together some research to back it up, but the more I study the Quran and look at world history and mythology, the more I'm convinced of it. The civilisations which were destroyed must have been transgressing, and corrupting and upsetting the balance in some terrible way to have earned such annihilation. I think that had God not destroyed them, they would have destroyed the planet and perhaps we would not be here today. Also note that according to the Quran, whenever such punishments were executed, entire nations were obliterated from the face of the Earth -- only the few who had believed the Messengers survived with him. Why would you expect the Divine intervention to appear through non-natural causes, when all nature is at God's command? I'm posting below some relevant verses/links for your perusal: http://quran.com/21/1 Their reckoning draweth nigh for mankind, while they turn away in heedlessness. http://quran.com/7/187 They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the Hour: when is its arrival? Say, Its knowledge is only with my Lord. None will reveal its time except Him. It lays heavily upon the heavens and the earth. It will not come upon you except unexpectedly. They ask you as if you are familiar with it. Say, Its knowledge is only with Allah , but most of the people do not know. http://quran.com/39/68 And the trumpet is blown, and all who are in the heavens and all who are in the earth swoon away, save him whom Allah willeth. Then it is blown a second time, and behold them standing waiting! http://quran.com/36/48-52 And they say, When is this promise, if you should be truthful? They do not await except one blast which will seize them while they are disputing. And they will not be able [to give] any instruction, nor to their people can they return. And the Horn will be blown; and at once from the graves to their Lord they will hasten. They will say, O woe to us! Who has raised us up from our sleeping place? [The reply will be], This is what the Most Merciful had promised, and the messengers told the truth. http://quran.com/101/1-5 The Calamity! What is the Calamity? Ah, what will convey unto thee what the Calamity is! A day
Re: Samiya proved right
https://www.facebook.com/MrDiscontinuity/posts/978314172187161 On 28 May 2015, at 9:44 pm, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: It's the sound made by geoengineering - firing electromagnetic pulse waves into the atmosphere to affect weather change. HAARP. And other things they don't ring you up to tell you they are doing. No, they don't announce on the evening news that mankind has figured out how to toy with the world's weather. Some of it might even be for your good. Kim On 28 May 2015, at 7:22 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently the Last Trump is being heard around the world... http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/what-is-causing-the-strange-trumpet-sounds-in-the-sky-all-over-the-world -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Samiya proved right
Apparently the Last Trump is being heard around the world... http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/what-is-causing-the-strange-trumpet-sounds-in-the-sky-all-over-the-world -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
It's the sound made by geoengineering - firing electromagnetic pulse waves into the atmosphere to affect weather change. HAARP. And other things they don't ring you up to tell you they are doing. No, they don't announce on the evening news that mankind has figured out how to toy with the world's weather. Some of it might even be for your good. Kim On 28 May 2015, at 7:22 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently the Last Trump is being heard around the world... http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/what-is-causing-the-strange-trumpet-sounds-in-the-sky-all-over-the-world -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Samiya proved right
Apparently the Last Trump is being heard around the world... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/04/13/aquiess-international-inc-electromagnetic-rainmaking-technology/ On 28 May 2015, at 9:47 pm, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: https://www.facebook.com/MrDiscontinuity/posts/978314172187161 On 28 May 2015, at 9:44 pm, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: It's the sound made by geoengineering - firing electromagnetic pulse waves into the atmosphere to affect weather change. HAARP. And other things they don't ring you up to tell you they are doing. No, they don't announce on the evening news that mankind has figured out how to toy with the world's weather. Some of it might even be for your good. Kim On 28 May 2015, at 7:22 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently the Last Trump is being heard around the world... http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/what-is-causing-the-strange-trumpet-sounds-in-the-sky-all-over-the-world -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Samiya proved right
Wow! I'm impressed by the speed of the response and the response itself. Thanks! On 28 May 2015 at 23:53, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/04/13/aquiess-international-inc-electromagnetic-rainmaking-technology/ On 28 May 2015, at 9:47 pm, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: https://www.facebook.com/MrDiscontinuity/posts/978314172187161 On 28 May 2015, at 9:44 pm, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: It's the sound made by geoengineering - firing electromagnetic pulse waves into the atmosphere to affect weather change. HAARP. And other things they don't ring you up to tell you they are doing. No, they don't announce on the evening news that mankind has figured out how to toy with the world's weather. Some of it might even be for your good. Kim On 28 May 2015, at 7:22 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently the Last Trump is being heard around the world... http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/what-is-causing-the-strange-trumpet-sounds-in-the-sky-all-over-the-world -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.