Re: musings on time

[Bruno Marchal]

On 03 Aug 2016, at 02:16, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:




From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: musings on time


On 29 Jul 2016, at 00:25, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List  
wrote:





From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: musings on time


On 26 Jul 2016, at 19:59, 'cdemorse...@yahoo.com' via Everything  
List wrote:





-- Original message--
From: Bruno Marchal
Date: Mon, 7/25/2016 7:31 AM


On 25 Jul 2016, at 01:45, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List  
wrote:


Hey it’s been a while… been following some discussions from time  
to time, lurking I guess….
without further ado this is what I am musing on – today at least  
--  in the form of a poem.


Time a Musing

Time, this tapestry upon which the stories of the universe are  
written.

This weave, spun from dancing kaleidoscope threads
Giving us our view of the world, but whose cloth, yet.. has  
always been.
This chaotic wave of emerging reality sweeping all in the foamy  
curl of collapsing superposition.
Fixing in time, becoming written, juxtaposed, interpolated,  
incorporated
In the mind… reifying each moment just lived, (as it dawns on us)  
into our living stories, our edifices of memories, convictions,  
dreams, hopes and fears as well.


Each moment perceived an inner splash… with all the follow on  
repercussions!
The private inner narrative of our minds -- that which we sense  
as being ourselves – itself emerges from this complex roiling sea  
of interactions
Appearing within us out from the mist of this reified stream of  
perceived instants, clanging about in the chatty electric circus  
of the brain, engaging in a loud shouting match with what just  
happened.
Out of this noise of introspection, argument and emergent  
consensus, events become sown into ourselves, becoming assumed  
and adopted through interaction with our inner prisms.
Our voice, speaking the narrative of our mind’s inner reflections  
on life… on time… is itself like an afterglow.
Each moment becoming the next, gone before the experience of the  
former has happened… we are propelled forward in time.


Time itself may not exist (maybe?), but the experience of time  
very much does.
Perhaps… it is our introspective theater of and reflection on our  
experience that, in the end, is the meaning and purpose of time  
itself.

Time… how the universe engages in thinking about itself.


Cheers… and be nice to each other… from time to time.



Thank you Chris. Marvelous poem. It might use some implicitly  
physicalist formulations though but we can't comment a poem  
'course:)


Thank you Bruno... it was an afternoon's musing :)



Like it happens in hot summer holyday :)



I freely confess I have no certainty to know what underpins  
everything, whether it's on some level "turtles all the way  
down"... or instead, as I find more ethsetic, the quantum  
instability of nothing itself making everything probable!


Unfortunately, the "nothing" of QM assumes a lot of thing, if not  
the whole of QM. Then, thanks to computationalism, we have some  
hope to understand where the QM assumptions are originating  
themselves from the elementary school math assumption.


Agreed, there is much in terms of information already present in  
this nothing... and it is valid to ask where does all of this non- 
physical stuff (QM) arise from itself.






Of course "time" and "experience of time" are very different. The  
first one is an "illusion" (in relativity theory, or GR), the  
second one can hardly be an illusion (a point of disagreement  
between me and ... salvia (!)).


I also find it exceedingly hard to imagine a meaningful existence  
without causality!


Without any causality? I can understand. Without physical  
causality, I guess it might be due to 1500 years of pseudo- 
religious brainwashing.
We need some causality, but the implication relation in Turing- 
complete theories is quite enough. Deducitive relation are in the  
eyes' beholder.


Instead I feel that without causality we have no grip with which to  
identify our being with some specific MWI pathways, which give  
uniqueness & meaning to our identity... if all paths are taken  
instantaneously and in every instant I feel the ensuing  
experiential qualia would be a total blinding white out, which  
obliterates our self identity. We require information hiding (and  
can only ever witness the universe which manifests our given  
sequence of quantum choices) in order to not become overwhelmed by  
the sheer infinity of our fully realized self -- e.g. the "self"  
that experiences and encompasses all possible choices that are  
realized.


In that sense, I agree that we need phsyical causality. We we don't  
need to assum

Re: musings on time

['Chris de Morsella' via Everything List]

  From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
 To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 3:36 AM
 Subject: Re: musings on time
   

On 29 Jul 2016, at 00:25, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:



  From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
 To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 8:38 AM
 Subject: Re: musings on time
  

On 26 Jul 2016, at 19:59, 'cdemorse...@yahoo.com' via Everything List wrote:

      -- Original message--From: Bruno Marchal Date: Mon, 7/25/2016 
7:31 AM 
On 25 Jul 2016, at 01:45, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:

Hey it’s been a while… been following some discussions from time to time, 
lurking I guess….without further ado this is what I am musing on – today at 
least --  in the form of a poem.  Time a Musing  Time, this tapestry upon which 
the stories of the universe are written.This weave, spun from dancing 
kaleidoscope threadsGiving us our view of the world, but whose cloth, yet.. has 
always been.This chaotic wave of emerging reality sweeping all in the foamy 
curl of collapsing superposition.Fixing in time, becoming written, juxtaposed, 
interpolated, incorporatedIn the mind… reifying each moment just lived, (as it 
dawns on us) into our living stories, our edifices of memories, convictions, 
dreams, hopes and fears as well.  Each moment perceived an inner splash… with 
all the follow on repercussions!The private inner narrative of our minds -- 
that which we sense as being ourselves – itself emerges from this complex 
roiling sea of interactionsAppearing within us out from the mist of this 
reified stream of perceived instants, clanging about in the chatty electric 
circus of the brain, engaging in a loud shouting match with what just 
happened.Out of this noise of introspection, argument and emergent consensus, 
events become sown into ourselves, becoming assumed and adopted through 
interaction with our inner prisms.Our voice, speaking the narrative of our 
mind’s inner reflections on life… on time… is itself like an afterglow.Each 
moment becoming the next, gone before the experience of the former has 
happened… we are propelled forward in time.  Time itself may not exist 
(maybe?), but the experience of time very much does.Perhaps… it is our 
introspective theater of and reflection on our experience that, in the end, is 
the meaning and purpose of time itself.Time… how the universe engages in 
thinking about itself.    Cheers… and be nice to each other… from time to time.


Thank you Chris. Marvelous poem. It might use some implicitly physicalist 
formulations though but we can't comment a poem 'course:) Thank you Bruno... it 
was an afternoon's musing :)


Like it happens in hot summer holyday :)



I freely confess I have no certainty to know what underpins everything, whether 
it's on some level "turtles all the way down"... or instead, as I find more 
ethsetic, the quantum instability of nothing itself making everything probable! 

Unfortunately, the "nothing" of QM assumes a lot of thing, if not the whole of 
QM. Then, thanks to computationalism, we have some hope to understand where the 
QM assumptions are originating themselves from the elementary school math 
assumption. 
Agreed, there is much in terms of information already present in this 
nothing... and it is valid to ask where does all of this non-physical stuff 
(QM) arise from itself. 



 
Of course "time" and "experience of time" are very different. The first one is 
an "illusion" (in relativity theory, or GR), the second one can hardly be an 
illusion (a point of disagreement between me and ... salvia (!)). I also find 
it exceedingly hard to imagine a meaningful existence without causality! 

Without any causality? I can understand. Without physical causality, I guess it 
might be due to 1500 years of pseudo-religious brainwashing.We need some 
causality, but the implication relation in Turing-complete theories is quite 
enough. Deducitive relation are in the eyes' beholder.
Instead I feel that without causality we have no grip with which to identify 
our being with some specific MWI pathways, which give uniqueness & meaning to 
our identity... if all paths are taken instantaneously and in every instant I 
feel the ensuing experiential qualia would be a total blinding white out, which 
obliterates our self identity. We require information hiding (and can only ever 
witness the universe which manifests our given sequence of quantum choices) in 
order to not become overwhelmed by the sheer infinity of our fully realized 
self -- e.g. the "self" that experiences and encompasses all possible choices 
that are realized.

In that sense, I agree that we need phsyical causality. We we don't need to 
assume it. It can possibly be an emerging notion from elementary arithmetic 
say. To deduce physical causality from numbers  would even make more 

Re: musings on time

[Bruno Marchal]

On 29 Jul 2016, at 00:25, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:




From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: musings on time


On 26 Jul 2016, at 19:59, 'cdemorse...@yahoo.com' via Everything  
List wrote:





-- Original message--
From: Bruno Marchal
Date: Mon, 7/25/2016 7:31 AM


On 25 Jul 2016, at 01:45, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List  
wrote:


Hey it’s been a while… been following some discussions from time  
to time, lurking I guess….
without further ado this is what I am musing on – today at least  
--  in the form of a poem.


Time a Musing

Time, this tapestry upon which the stories of the universe are  
written.

This weave, spun from dancing kaleidoscope threads
Giving us our view of the world, but whose cloth, yet.. has always  
been.
This chaotic wave of emerging reality sweeping all in the foamy  
curl of collapsing superposition.
Fixing in time, becoming written, juxtaposed, interpolated,  
incorporated
In the mind… reifying each moment just lived, (as it dawns on us)  
into our living stories, our edifices of memories, convictions,  
dreams, hopes and fears as well.


Each moment perceived an inner splash… with all the follow on  
repercussions!
The private inner narrative of our minds -- that which we sense as  
being ourselves – itself emerges from this complex roiling sea of  
interactions
Appearing within us out from the mist of this reified stream of  
perceived instants, clanging about in the chatty electric circus  
of the brain, engaging in a loud shouting match with what just  
happened.
Out of this noise of introspection, argument and emergent  
consensus, events become sown into ourselves, becoming assumed and  
adopted through interaction with our inner prisms.
Our voice, speaking the narrative of our mind’s inner reflections  
on life… on time… is itself like an afterglow.
Each moment becoming the next, gone before the experience of the  
former has happened… we are propelled forward in time.


Time itself may not exist (maybe?), but the experience of time  
very much does.
Perhaps… it is our introspective theater of and reflection on our  
experience that, in the end, is the meaning and purpose of time  
itself.

Time… how the universe engages in thinking about itself.


Cheers… and be nice to each other… from time to time.



Thank you Chris. Marvelous poem. It might use some implicitly  
physicalist formulations though but we can't comment a poem 'course:)


Thank you Bruno... it was an afternoon's musing :)



Like it happens in hot summer holyday :)



I freely confess I have no certainty to know what underpins  
everything, whether it's on some level "turtles all the way  
down"... or instead, as I find more ethsetic, the quantum  
instability of nothing itself making everything probable!


Unfortunately, the "nothing" of QM assumes a lot of thing, if not  
the whole of QM. Then, thanks to computationalism, we have some hope  
to understand where the QM assumptions are originating themselves  
from the elementary school math assumption.


Agreed, there is much in terms of information already present in  
this nothing... and it is valid to ask where does all of this non- 
physical stuff (QM) arise from itself.






Of course "time" and "experience of time" are very different. The  
first one is an "illusion" (in relativity theory, or GR), the  
second one can hardly be an illusion (a point of disagreement  
between me and ... salvia (!)).


I also find it exceedingly hard to imagine a meaningful existence  
without causality!


Without any causality? I can understand. Without physical causality,  
I guess it might be due to 1500 years of pseudo-religious  
brainwashing.
We need some causality, but the implication relation in Turing- 
complete theories is quite enough. Deducitive relation are in the  
eyes' beholder.


Instead I feel that without causality we have no grip with which to  
identify our being with some specific MWI pathways, which give  
uniqueness & meaning to our identity... if all paths are taken  
instantaneously and in every instant I feel the ensuing experiential  
qualia would be a total blinding white out, which obliterates our  
self identity. We require information hiding (and can only ever  
witness the universe which manifests our given sequence of quantum  
choices) in order to not become overwhelmed by the sheer infinity of  
our fully realized self -- e.g. the "self" that experiences and  
encompasses all possible choices that are realized.


In that sense, I agree that we need phsyical causality. We we don't  
need to assume it. It can possibly be an emerging notion from  
elementary arithmetic say. To deduce physical causality from numbers   
would even make more solid our trust in such causality notion, instead  
of extrapolating from our sense exper

Re: musings on time

['Chris de Morsella' via Everything List]

  From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
 To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 8:38 AM
 Subject: Re: musings on time
   

On 26 Jul 2016, at 19:59, 'cdemorse...@yahoo.com' via Everything List wrote:

      -- Original message--From: Bruno Marchal Date: Mon, 7/25/2016 
7:31 AM 
On 25 Jul 2016, at 01:45, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:

Hey it’s been a while… been following some discussions from time to time, 
lurking I guess….without further ado this is what I am musing on – today at 
least --  in the form of a poem.  Time a Musing  Time, this tapestry upon which 
the stories of the universe are written.This weave, spun from dancing 
kaleidoscope threadsGiving us our view of the world, but whose cloth, yet.. has 
always been.This chaotic wave of emerging reality sweeping all in the foamy 
curl of collapsing superposition.Fixing in time, becoming written, juxtaposed, 
interpolated, incorporatedIn the mind… reifying each moment just lived, (as it 
dawns on us) into our living stories, our edifices of memories, convictions, 
dreams, hopes and fears as well.  Each moment perceived an inner splash… with 
all the follow on repercussions!The private inner narrative of our minds -- 
that which we sense as being ourselves – itself emerges from this complex 
roiling sea of interactionsAppearing within us out from the mist of this 
reified stream of perceived instants, clanging about in the chatty electric 
circus of the brain, engaging in a loud shouting match with what just 
happened.Out of this noise of introspection, argument and emergent consensus, 
events become sown into ourselves, becoming assumed and adopted through 
interaction with our inner prisms.Our voice, speaking the narrative of our 
mind’s inner reflections on life… on time… is itself like an afterglow.Each 
moment becoming the next, gone before the experience of the former has 
happened… we are propelled forward in time.  Time itself may not exist 
(maybe?), but the experience of time very much does.Perhaps… it is our 
introspective theater of and reflection on our experience that, in the end, is 
the meaning and purpose of time itself.Time… how the universe engages in 
thinking about itself.    Cheers… and be nice to each other… from time to time.


Thank you Chris. Marvelous poem. It might use some implicitly physicalist 
formulations though but we can't comment a poem 'course:) Thank you Bruno... it 
was an afternoon's musing :)


Like it happens in hot summer holyday :)



I freely confess I have no certainty to know what underpins everything, whether 
it's on some level "turtles all the way down"... or instead, as I find more 
ethsetic, the quantum instability of nothing itself making everything probable! 

Unfortunately, the "nothing" of QM assumes a lot of thing, if not the whole of 
QM. Then, thanks to computationalism, we have some hope to understand where the 
QM assumptions are originating themselves from the elementary school math 
assumption. 
Agreed, there is much in terms of information already present in this 
nothing... and it is valid to ask where does all of this non-physical stuff 
(QM) arise from itself. 



 
Of course "time" and "experience of time" are very different. The first one is 
an "illusion" (in relativity theory, or GR), the second one can hardly be an 
illusion (a point of disagreement between me and ... salvia (!)). I also find 
it exceedingly hard to imagine a meaningful existence without causality! 

Without any causality? I can understand. Without physical causality, I guess it 
might be due to 1500 years of pseudo-religious brainwashing.We need some 
causality, but the implication relation in Turing-complete theories is quite 
enough. Deducitive relation are in the eyes' beholder.
Instead I feel that without causality we have no grip with which to identify 
our being with some specific MWI pathways, which give uniqueness & meaning to 
our identity... if all paths are taken instantaneously and in every instant I 
feel the ensuing experiential qualia would be a total blinding white out, which 
obliterates our self identity. We require information hiding (and can only ever 
witness the universe which manifests our given sequence of quantum choices) in 
order to not become overwhelmed by the sheer infinity of our fully realized 
self -- e.g. the "self" that experiences and encompasses all possible choices 
that are realized.


Of course, this is the today's topics: physical causality emerges from 
infinitely many simple arithmetical relations. We have to retrieve the physical 
causality appearances from them (by UDA, say), and that is not hard with 
computationalism, as computationalism shows the existence of an intrinsic 
notion of causality already represented or realized  in arithmetic.
Apology for commenting a poem :)
No worries... Poems can become better with comments... and som

Re: musings on time

[Bruno Marchal]

On 26 Jul 2016, at 19:59, 'cdemorse...@yahoo.com' via Everything List  
wrote:





-- Original message--
From: Bruno Marchal
Date: Mon, 7/25/2016 7:31 AM


On 25 Jul 2016, at 01:45, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List  
wrote:


Hey it’s been a while… been following some discussions from time to  
time, lurking I guess….
without further ado this is what I am musing on – today at least  
--  in the form of a poem.


Time a Musing

Time, this tapestry upon which the stories of the universe are  
written.

This weave, spun from dancing kaleidoscope threads
Giving us our view of the world, but whose cloth, yet.. has always  
been.
This chaotic wave of emerging reality sweeping all in the foamy  
curl of collapsing superposition.
Fixing in time, becoming written, juxtaposed, interpolated,  
incorporated
In the mind… reifying each moment just lived, (as it dawns on us)  
into our living stories, our edifices of memories, convictions,  
dreams, hopes and fears as well.


Each moment perceived an inner splash… with all the follow on  
repercussions!
The private inner narrative of our minds -- that which we sense as  
being ourselves – itself emerges from this complex roiling sea of  
interactions
Appearing within us out from the mist of this reified stream of  
perceived instants, clanging about in the chatty electric circus of  
the brain, engaging in a loud shouting match with what just happened.
Out of this noise of introspection, argument and emergent  
consensus, events become sown into ourselves, becoming assumed and  
adopted through interaction with our inner prisms.
Our voice, speaking the narrative of our mind’s inner reflections  
on life… on time… is itself like an afterglow.
Each moment becoming the next, gone before the experience of the  
former has happened… we are propelled forward in time.


Time itself may not exist (maybe?), but the experience of time very  
much does.
Perhaps… it is our introspective theater of and reflection on our  
experience that, in the end, is the meaning and purpose of time  
itself.

Time… how the universe engages in thinking about itself.


Cheers… and be nice to each other… from time to time.



Thank you Chris. Marvelous poem. It might use some implicitly  
physicalist formulations though but we can't comment a poem 'course:)


Thank you Bruno... it was an afternoon's musing :)



Like it happens in hot summer holyday :)



I freely confess I have no certainty to know what underpins  
everything, whether it's on some level "turtles all the way down"...  
or instead, as I find more ethsetic, the quantum instability of  
nothing itself making everything probable!


Unfortunately, the "nothing" of QM assumes a lot of thing, if not the  
whole of QM. Then, thanks to computationalism, we have some hope to  
understand where the QM assumptions are originating themselves from  
the elementary school math assumption.







Of course "time" and "experience of time" are very different. The  
first one is an "illusion" (in relativity theory, or GR), the second  
one can hardly be an illusion (a point of disagreement between me  
and ... salvia (!)).


I also find it exceedingly hard to imagine a meaningful existence  
without causality!


Without any causality? I can understand. Without physical causality, I  
guess it might be due to 1500 years of pseudo-religious brainwashing.
We need some causality, but the implication relation in Turing- 
complete theories is quite enough. Deducitive relation are in the  
eyes' beholder.


Of course, this is the today's topics: physical causality emerges from  
infinitely many simple arithmetical relations. We have to retrieve the  
physical causality appearances from them (by UDA, say), and that is  
not hard with computationalism, as computationalism shows the  
existence of an intrinsic notion of causality already represented or  
realized  in arithmetic.


Apology for commenting a poem :)


Bruno




Could time be how we experience our subjective perspective's  
trajectory in a branching multiverse?
Assuming MWI each of us is a branching cause-effect path of  
quantum choices fixed in fuzzy moments... but all paths exist (in  
the massively branching multiverse)
I feel as if time is like Hansel's pebbles (Hanse & Gretel) ... it  
serves to connect our experiential now with our reflective  
recollection of what we were and the where of how we got here  
without which we lose identity.
Time is tightly coupled  and inseparable from causality. It emerges  
manifest from  perhaps  infinite loci of the infinite branching of  
everything... again assuming MWI.
Is time, a cosmic accounting trick to entangle us all in the spider  
web of causality that is necessary and central to our emergent self- 
meaning?
A quick comment re your disagreement with Salvia... could Salvia be  
saying to you that time/causality are on some level training wheels?  
(Necessary for us, yet not necessarily fundamental to all being)

- Chris

Re: musings on time

['cdemorse...@yahoo.com' via Everything List]

  
 -- Original message-- From: Bruno Marchal Date: Mon, 7/25/2016 7:31 AM On 25 Jul 2016, at 01:45, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:Hey it’s been a while… been following some discussions from time to time, lurking I guess….without further ado this is what I am musing on – today at least --  in the form of a poem. Time a Musing Time, this tapestry upon which the stories of the universe are written.This weave, spun from dancing kaleidoscope threadsGiving us our view of the world, but whose cloth, yet.. has always been.This chaotic wave of emerging reality sweeping all in the foamy curl of collapsing superposition.Fixing in time, becoming written, juxtaposed, interpolated, incorporatedIn the mind… reifying each moment just lived, (as it dawns on us) into our living stories, our edifices of memories, convictions, dreams, hopes and fears as well. Each moment perceived an inner splash… with all the follow on repercussions!The private inner narrative of our minds -- that which we sense as being ourselves – itself emerges from this complex roiling sea of interactionsAppearing within us out from the mist of this reified stream of perceived instants, clanging about in the chatty electric circus of the brain, engaging in a loud shouting match with what just happened.Out of this noise of introspection, argument and emergent consensus, events become sown into ourselves, becoming assumed and adopted through interaction with our inner prisms.Our voice, speaking the narrative of our mind’s inner reflections on life… on time… is itself like an afterglow.Each moment becoming the next, gone before the experience of the former has happened… we are propelled forward in time. Time itself may not exist (maybe?), but the experience of time very much does.Perhaps… it is our introspective theater of and reflection on our experience that, in the end, is the meaning and purpose of time itself.Time… how the universe engages in thinking about itself.  Cheers… and be nice to each other… from time to time.Thank you Chris. Marvelous poem. It might use some implicitly physicalist formulations though but we can't comment a poem 'course:)
 
Thank you Bruno... it was an afternoon's musing :)
I freely confess I have no certainty to know what underpins everything, whether it's on some level "turtles all the way down"... or instead, as I find more ethsetic, the quantum instability of nothing itself making everything probable! 
Of course "time" and "experience of time" are very different. The first one is an "illusion" (in relativity theory, or GR), the second one can hardly be an illusion (a point of disagreement between me and ... salvia (!)).
 
I also find it exceedingly hard to imagine a meaningful existence without causality! 
 
Could time be how we experience our subjective perspective's trajectory in a branching multiverse? 
Assuming MWI each of us is a branching cause-effect path of quantum choices fixed in fuzzy moments... but all paths exist (in the massively branching multiverse)
I feel as if time is like Hansel's pebbles (Hanse & Gretel) ... it serves to connect our experiential now with our reflective recollection of what we were and the where of how we got here without which we lose identity.
Time is tightly coupled  and inseparable from causality. It emerges manifest from  perhaps  infinite loci of the infinite branching of everything... again assuming MWI.
Is time, a cosmic accounting trick to entangle us all in the spider web of causality that is necessary and central to our emergent self-meaning? 
A quick comment re your disagreement with Salvia... could Salvia be saying to you that time/causality are on some level training wheels? (Necessary for us, yet not necessarily fundamental to all being)
- Chris 
PS (that was a nice series, will check the utube link out as well) 
 
BTW the "PBS Space Time" series is very good on the "illusion" of energy/mass, space and time). Even if physicalist by default too.For example: "When time breaks down" (and others): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GguAN1_JouQ

Bruno -Chris-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ 

 

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Re: musings on time

[Bruno Marchal]

On 25 Jul 2016, at 01:45, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:

Hey it’s been a while… been following some discussions from time to  
time, lurking I guess….
without further ado this is what I am musing on – today at least --   
in the form of a poem.


Time a Musing

Time, this tapestry upon which the stories of the universe are  
written.

This weave, spun from dancing kaleidoscope threads
Giving us our view of the world, but whose cloth, yet.. has always  
been.
This chaotic wave of emerging reality sweeping all in the foamy curl  
of collapsing superposition.
Fixing in time, becoming written, juxtaposed, interpolated,  
incorporated
In the mind… reifying each moment just lived, (as it dawns on us)  
into our living stories, our edifices of memories, convictions,  
dreams, hopes and fears as well.


Each moment perceived an inner splash… with all the follow on  
repercussions!
The private inner narrative of our minds -- that which we sense as  
being ourselves – itself emerges from this complex roiling sea of  
interactions
Appearing within us out from the mist of this reified stream of  
perceived instants, clanging about in the chatty electric circus of  
the brain, engaging in a loud shouting match with what just happened.
Out of this noise of introspection, argument and emergent consensus,  
events become sown into ourselves, becoming assumed and adopted  
through interaction with our inner prisms.
Our voice, speaking the narrative of our mind’s inner reflections on  
life… on time… is itself like an afterglow.
Each moment becoming the next, gone before the experience of the  
former has happened… we are propelled forward in time.


Time itself may not exist (maybe?), but the experience of time very  
much does.
Perhaps… it is our introspective theater of and reflection on our  
experience that, in the end, is the meaning and purpose of time  
itself.

Time… how the universe engages in thinking about itself.


Cheers… and be nice to each other… from time to time.



Thank you Chris. Marvelous poem. It might use some implicitly  
physicalist formulations though but we can't comment a poem 'course:)


Of course "time" and "experience of time" are very different. The  
first one is an "illusion" (in relativity theory, or GR), the second  
one can hardly be an illusion (a point of disagreement between me  
and ... salvia (!)).


BTW the "PBS Space Time" series is very good on the "illusion" of  
energy/mass, space and time). Even if physicalist by default too.


For example: "When time breaks down" (and others): 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GguAN1_JouQ

Bruno



-Chris

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RE: musings on time

['Chris de Morsella' via Everything List]

Hey it’s been a while… been following some discussions from time to time, 
lurking I guess…. 

without further ado this is what I am musing on – today at least --  in the 
form of a poem. 

 

Time a Musing

 

Time, this tapestry upon which the stories of the universe are written.

This weave, spun from dancing kaleidoscope threads

Giving us our view of the world, but whose cloth, yet.. has always been.

This chaotic wave of emerging reality sweeping all in the foamy curl of 
collapsing superposition.

Fixing in time, becoming written, juxtaposed, interpolated, incorporated

In the mind… reifying each moment just lived, (as it dawns on us) into our 
living stories, our edifices of memories, convictions, dreams, hopes and fears 
as well.

 

Each moment perceived an inner splash… with all the follow on repercussions!

The private inner narrative of our minds -- that which we sense as being 
ourselves – itself emerges from this complex roiling sea of interactions

Appearing within us out from the mist of this reified stream of perceived 
instants, clanging about in the chatty electric circus of the brain, engaging 
in a loud shouting match with what just happened.

Out of this noise of introspection, argument and emergent consensus, events 
become sown into ourselves, becoming assumed and adopted through interaction 
with our inner prisms.

Our voice, speaking the narrative of our mind’s inner reflections on life… on 
time… is itself like an afterglow.

Each moment becoming the next, gone before the experience of the former has 
happened… we are propelled forward in time.

 

Time itself may not exist (maybe?), but the experience of time very much does.

Perhaps… it is our introspective theater of and reflection on our experience 
that, in the end, is the meaning and purpose of time itself.

Time… how the universe engages in thinking about itself.

 

 

Cheers… and be nice to each other… from time to time.

-Chris

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