[FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Namaste, Your friend was born under the sign of Leo according to jyotish rules, and the Moon is under the asterism or nakshatra of Revati. In the main chart or rashi kundali, The 7th house signifying the prostrate gland is under heavy malefic influence with the Sun and Mercury in it and aspected by Mars and Saturn (both are malefic). The subsidiary chart or navamsha kundali shows that the cancer growth is located at the entrance to the prostate gland. This area of the gland is under heavy malefic influence as well. The treatment may include surgery (due to the influence of Mars) and radiation treatment (due to the influence of Rahu in the navamsha chart). Recommendation 1. Take aggressive action to treat the cancer growth. Regards, John R. John, While I understand that you believe in this Jyotish stuff, and actually believe that the information you post above is 1) valid, 2) useful, and 3) not based on having been told ahead of time what the medical problem was, I am less than convinced. So I propose another test. Here is the birth data for a friend who is having a medical issue. The nature of it will remain unstated, for obvious reasons, but suffice it to say that it is serious enough that it has required and still requires attention from doctors, and has the possibility of requiring surgery. Born: Suffern, New York, USA September 18, 1965 18:06 (6:06 p.m.) So what is my friend's medical issue, and what is the prognosis and best course of care, according to Jyotish? Waiting with 'bated breath... Turq Barry, In my dealings with you, I found that you have already a predisposed opinion about TM and the vedic sciences which is not positive to say the least. We have also noticed that no matter what the facts are or what the rationales are, you continue to disbelieve in these sciences. So, it would not be reasonable for me to get into this experiment since I already know what you are thinking and that you are going to prove it wrong whatever I say. Jyotish is also for people who are sincerely looking for help. It is not for people who have a bias against it. Given this background, it would not be wise to get involved with this so called experiment-- which is really a set up for your own entertainment. Nonetheless, I will take a look at the chart and analyze it. If I see anything earth shaking, I will notify the group...or maybe not. Good for you. But I think you should report whatever you see otherwise we end up with a publication selection bias problem. If you've got the time and are happy to try I'll volunteer my details so we can start to get more of a spread of ability rather than just a sample of one which may be misleading as people of a certain age and sex are more likely to have particular health problems thus requiring the weighting of any result to hopefully eliminate that. I'm as skeptical as it gets about astrology (any sort) I simply don't get how it might work, physically, mentally, astronomically, quantum mechanically etc. But that doesn't mean I'm biased, I've just never seen any convincing evidence. The good thing about solid double blind data is that it doesn't matter what you think about it, it speaks for itself. So far jyotish has proved to be less impressive than someone making guesses. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong though, I imagine it would be pretty useful to be able to predict what the course of events in any sphere of my life is likely to be, I just need the confidence that it's actually telling me something. So there you go, the offer's there. I'm happy to take part it'll be fun and maybe even interesting. JR
[FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: Why all this resistance to surgery? Flax seeds? Give me a break. Once the horse has left the barn any nutritional approach is a tad late! Again, why all this resistance to standard medical procedures? The arrogant bias against surgery has destined many individuals within the TMO, and without, to death. Do you think these now-deceased persons made some sort of point by refusing surgery, and then dying ?Apparently there are some huge egos among us who aim for fame from a non-surgical 'cure'. Wow !
[FairfieldLife] Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
I think that the recent discussions about religion and the reaction to me proposing a test of Jyotish have shed important light on the *real* legacy of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. I think that we can see more evidence of his real legacy in the actions of a few True Believer followers yesterday than we can in any of his speeches or proclamations. In short, the trend I see that he actively cultivated most in his followers, and that several of his followers *demonstrated* yesterday, is: Treat any critics of TM harshly -- demonize them and do anything you possibly can to make others think that they have no credibility. You incur no bad karma for this, and in fact are fighting the good fight. It is not only acceptable to demonize these critics, it is your holy duty. This is truly scary in my opinion. At the end of 2008, I look back on an internet history of watching TM TBs *consistently* attempt to demonize anyone who criticizes TM, the TMO, and Maharishi. In one case, the *same* person has been doing this for 15 years now, first on alt.meditation.transcendental, and now for the last four years on Fairfield Life. It's grown to be such a modus operandi of this loud- mouthed spiritual hit woman that it's actually *spread*, and others have picked up the behavior from her, and think that it is acceptable or even laudable behavior. In the last four years Fairfield Life has degenerated to the point that we actually see what happened yester- day as normal, and don't think twice about it. I'm going to spend a moment thinking twice about it. All I did yesterday was propose a test of something that Maharishi believed in and sold for a high price to his TB followers -- Jyotish. The *immediate* reaction, coming *first* from the person who has been systematically attempting to demonize critics of TM for fifteen years, was to cast doubt on the test because I was a liar and my word couldn't be trusted. This cue was then picked up on by several others, who jumped on the Quick! Gotta demonize the TM critic band- wagon by screaming Liar! in unison with Judy. You know who you are -- Raunchydog, EB11, and Nabby. Then, when I took the possibility of lying out of the equation by creating impartial judges to the Jyotish Test, and giving them the answer to the challenge ahead of time, the TM TBs had to shift their strategy. Calling me a liar wasn't enough. So they shifted to more active demonization, and tried to suggest that in addition to being a liar, I was actually doing a Bad Thing by proposing this test. Judy did her best to imply that I was violating the privacy of my friend by making the person's medical condition public. She kept harping on this over and over and over, as if she thought she'd found a true gotcha and had to make sure that everyone saw it. The ludicrous- ness of this will become apparent when I post the actual answer to the test. Raunchydog jumped onto the bandwagon and Googled up some irrelevant garbage to support Judy's claim of privacy violation. Typical...not only that she'd pile on, but that she wouldn't have the ability to say anything orig- inal. Again, wait to see how red their faces are over this privacy violation issue are when I post the answer to the test. Then EB11 piled on, *not* because she gives a shit about Jyotish, but because she has been pretending to be a TMer and felt she had to side with the TBs' Gotta demonize the TM critic. Just gotta parade. And finally Nabby jumped into the fray. Realizing that calling me a liar wasn't stopping the proposed test of one of Maharishi's cherished vedic sciences, and that Judy's attempt to make me a Bad Guy wasn't working, he had to up the ante. So he made up some stuff that he *knew* I could prove wasn't true, and started demonizing me with the *worst thing he could possibly think of*. He claimed I had been thrown out of the TM movement, and kept away from Maharishi. *Besides* the fact that this is not true, isn't it interesting that that's the worst thing that Nabby could think of to say about someone? Doesn't that just *shout* religious fanatic? JohnR's part in all of this has been benign. He may or may not actually present his analysis of my friend's chart. I hope he does, because that would illustrate that at least *his* heart is in the right place. But Judy? And Raunchydog? And Nabby? And *their* part in this little drama? Actively trying to demonize me in any way they could think of for the crime of proposing this little test of something that Maharishi claimed was a science? That was pretty nauseating. They came out of this little drama looking a lot worse than John did. John will *at worst* come off as lacking cojones, if he fails to present his analysis of the chart. Or he could present one and it could be wrong. He *could* present an analysis and have it be right. Another Jyotishi before him actually saw this medical condition in my friend's chart long before it appeared; John might, too. If he fails to take up the challenge, he
[FairfieldLife] How are you doing today(I need your help)
Dear, How are you doing today? I am sorry i didn't inform you about my traveling to Africa for a program called Empowering Youth to Fight Racism, HIV/AIDS, Poverty and Lack of Education, the program is taking place in three major countries in Africa which is Ghana , South Africa and Nigeria . It as been a very sad and bad moment for me, the present condition that i found myself is very hard for me to explain. I am really stranded in Nigeria because I forgot my little bag in the Taxi where my money, passport, documents and other valuable things were kept on my way to the Hotel am staying, I am facing a hard time here because i have no money on me. I am now owning a hotel bill of $ 1000 and they wanted me to pay the bill soon else they will have to seize my bag and hand me over to the Hotel Management., I need this help from you urgently to help me back home, I need you to help me with the hotel bill and i will also need $1500 to feed and help myself back home so please can you help me with a sum of $2500 to sort out my problems here? I need this help so much and on time because i am in a terrible and tight situation here, I don't even have money to feed myself for a day which means i had been starving so please understand how urgent i needed your help. I am sending you this e-mail from the city Library and I only have 30 min, I will appreciate what so ever you can afford to send me for now and I promise to pay back your money as soon as i return home so please let me know on time so that i can forward you the details you need to transfer the money through Money Gram or Western Union. Looking forward to hearing from you soon. Best Regards Nelson Lafrancis
[FairfieldLife] Re: How are you doing today(I need your help)
Boy, the TMO must *really* be desperate for money if they've got the Raja for Nigeria doing this. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nelson lafrancis nelsonriddle2...@... wrote: Dear, How are you doing today? I am sorry i didn't inform you about my traveling to Africa for a program called Empowering Youth to Fight Racism, HIV/AIDS, Poverty and Lack of Education, the program is taking place in three major countries in Africa which is Ghana , South Africa and Nigeria . It as been a very sad and bad moment for me, the present condition that i found myself is very hard for me to explain. I am really stranded in Nigeria because I forgot my little bag in the Taxi where my money, passport, documents and other valuable things were kept on my way to the Hotel am staying, I am facing a hard time here because i have no money on me. I am now owning a hotel bill of $ 1000 and they wanted me to pay the bill soon else they will have to seize my bag and hand me over to the Hotel Management., I need this help from you urgently to help me back home, I need you to help me with the hotel bill and i will also need $1500 to feed and help myself back home so please can you help me with a sum of $2500 to sort out my problems here? I need this help so much and on time because i am in a terrible and tight situation here, I don't even have money to feed myself for a day which means i had been starving so please understand how urgent i needed your help. I am sending you this e-mail from the city Library and I only have 30 min, I will appreciate what so ever you can afford to send me for now and I promise to pay back your money as soon as i return home so please let me know on time so that i can forward you the details you need to transfer the money through Money Gram or Western Union. Looking forward to hearing from you soon. Best Regards Nelson Lafrancis
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: Not at all. The reverse, in fact. TM is the ground in which religion is rooted and nourished. Religion *without* TM is, well, groundless. You might say religion without TM is for first-graders. But religion becomes graduate study (and beyond) when it's undergirded by TM. TM without religion is better than religion without TM, but religion growing in the ground of TM is the fulfillment of both. TM is utterly simple and profound; religion is very complicated and requires the clarity TM provides to reveal its profundity. MMY was very much in favor of religious practice, but he thought it wasn't worth much in the absence of TM. Well said.
[FairfieldLife] (I need your help)-This is a common scam!
I believe this is a common scam, coming out of Nigeria, where the government is in cahoots with this criminal type of rip-off... I'm not sure why this still goes on, as it has been for so many years, and so many people being ripped off for hundreds of thousands of dollars... R.G. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Boy, the TMO must *really* be desperate for money if they've got the Raja for Nigeria doing this. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nelson lafrancis nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: Dear, How are you doing today? I am sorry i didn't inform you about my traveling to Africa for a program called Empowering Youth to Fight Racism, HIV/AIDS, Poverty and Lack of Education, the program is taking place in three major countries in Africa which is Ghana , South Africa and Nigeria . It as been a very sad and bad moment for me, the present condition that i found myself is very hard for me to explain. I am really stranded in Nigeria because I forgot my little bag in the Taxi where my money, passport, documents and other valuable things were kept on my way to the Hotel am staying, I am facing a hard time here because i have no money on me. I am now owning a hotel bill of $ 1000 and they wanted me to pay the bill soon else they will have to seize my bag and hand me over to the Hotel Management., I need this help from you urgently to help me back home, I need you to help me with the hotel bill and i will also need $1500 to feed and help myself back home so please can you help me with a sum of $2500 to sort out my problems here? I need this help so much and on time because i am in a terrible and tight situation here, I don't even have money to feed myself for a day which means i had been starving so please understand how urgent i needed your help. I am sending you this e-mail from the city Library and I only have 30 min, I will appreciate what so ever you can afford to send me for now and I promise to pay back your money as soon as i return home so please let me know on time so that i can forward you the details you need to transfer the money through Money Gram or Western Union. Looking forward to hearing from you soon. Best Regards Nelson Lafrancis
[FairfieldLife] Re: Making the Jyotish Test fair
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: As for the Turq/Barry problem; increasingly people on FFL find it mind-boggeling that a fellow who left the TMO in disgrace, having been told to keep physically away from Maharishi by His Secretaries more than 30 years ago... The TBs are getting desperate. snip At least Nabby had the balls to state his lie outright. Ask yourself this question, folks -- if I'm violating my friend's privacy, where did I get the birth data? Most probably this data is something you made up. We're both waiting to see whether JohnR will take up the challenge. As for Nabby's lie, I'm sure Jerry Jarvis would be able to tell you it's not true. Jerry Jarvis is a honourable man. He would not stand up for pathological liers like Barry/Turq.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
On Dec 30, 2008, at 9:45 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: Judy, Vaj did not say one dishonest thing here. He asked if you said something, and if you had that position, you would be a TB. You said that you were stating MMY's position, which may or may not be your position. End of story. Yeah, typical Judy schlock. I figured she'd claim it was Maharishi's claim rather than hers since it gave her an easy, dishonest way out. Typical. Since I had excellent results with TM (by TMO standards), as I've noted repeatedly before, that makes it difficult for her (or anyone) to dismiss my remarks, opinions and criticisms. It's also part of the reason I'm able to discriminate the bait and switch (though-free states vs. actual transcendence) that goes down.
[FairfieldLife] Re: spirituality spot found in brain
Can you remember the particular teachers names? vaj, they all seem to. Is noticed, commented on and helped with it. Over time there has been some bits of spiritual troubles with people stuck in their heads. So help is sought by some folks here from others who can help. Definitely folks around too who make a specialty of attending to these various kinds of meditator maladies of spiritual progress. Within the TMorg there is a real spiritual arrogance about what they are doing and stonewalling when their folks run up against the TM inertia along these lines of development. Basically some lot of 'in the head' kind of teaching with TM. Basically all the others deal with, teach and help with more spiritual technique that attends to enhancing the whole sutble system of the body-mind complex. Basically, TM as a practice is a nice introduction or gateway to spiritual practice. The story of the meditating community here now has also been what has come up further along the road. It is quite a spiritual place that has been enhanced by the visits of a flow of some maha-saints/ sat-gurus as well as the residence of insightful folks who are also part of FF anyway. JGD Is FFL, -Doug in FF It's possible that most TMers are not in fact transcending in the full sense of that word and are merely experiencing thought- free states. transcendent and not samadhi? That is observed about the TM community by Spiritual teachers and folk who do come to visit. Comments often are that there is a development in some head or upper chakras but poor connection or integration of the whole subtle system. Comments about TM people may be bright in their heads but cut-off or under connected to throat, heart and with lower chakras. Is the nature of the TM community as it is seen. One very appreciative saint saying of the community also commented about it, there is a dry- ness while circling their hand in front of their heart area. Interesting, although (sadly) not surprising. Can you remember the particular teachers names?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: [snip] THAT is Maharishi's real legacy to the world. Not his teachings, but the willingness he has actively cultivated in his followers to *try to do harm* to anyone who dares to challenge those teachings. Way, way over the top IMO. I've done the courses, read the books, listened to any number of videos, been to lectures, met the chap (once). I simply do not recognise any truth in your assertion. And actively cultivated too? No way. Of course the TMO has its fair share of nutters and fanatics. From what I could see that is something they brought to the party, not something MMY cultivated in them. Mind you I am but a lowly siddha. I know there is a line of thought here that if you didn't go further than that and join the great elite of teachers, then you didn't get the real deal. That is to say you weren't exposed to MMY's authentic teaching (as opposed to the sanitised version for the great unwashed). But if that is to be your point here, a flaw in your case opens up: the prime target of your thesis was not exposed to that real deal herself (or so I believe).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
On Dec 31, 2008, at 12:44 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: The experience of transcending restores the original intention of religion, which is to give a direct experience of transcending by whatever means necessary: prayer, rosary, chanting, dancing, singing or climbing a mountain on your knees, whatever floats your boat. I think the point is that this claim about restoring what was the original intention of religion is an expression of Maharishi's grandiosity that he would know such a thing. It is coming from a Hindu perspective on what religion is all about. It has nothing to do with most versions of Christianity. It might apply to certain groups of mystical Christianity which might value such experiences. But even then it would not be outside the acceptance of Christ as a redeemer and his role in opening the possibility for eternal life as their original intention of religion . Even the reclusive Christian monks I hung out with did not buy into Maharishi's perspective what the original intention of religion is, or that he had somehow, out of all the other religions people, discovered it. Works for me. I can see that and more power to ya. But not all religious people believe that Maharishi held such a lofty position of insight about their religions. He was not a ecumenical kind of guy. He was more of a Triumphalist. So tell us more about your interactions with these Christian monks (The Cistercians). There's an old Cistercian monastery in Montreal and the claim is that some of them had attained extended life-spans; same in France.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
On Dec 30, 2008, at 10:48 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: See my previous post. I meant to say something different. You did say you were going to start ignoring my posts again, though, so this does make you a liar. Interesting. I was hoping you would answer this off the cuff question. It actually does not make me a liar because I meant it when I said it. I just changed my mind for the evening.. This helps me know why you misuse the word liar so often. Judy: It isn't a lie when you change your mind. When someone is repeatedly calling people liars who clearly are not, it's often a cover for their own dishonesty and lying. I believe the saying is 'when you point a finger at someone else, there's tree fingers pointing back at you.' I think that applies quite well here.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New paper on TM and ADHD
On Dec 31, 2008, at 1:00 AM, sparaig wrote: And maybe you are correct. However, regardless of the benefits or non-benefits of TM and the significance of the TC episodes during TM, there is STILL no published research on folk practicing other meditation techniques, that show the same physiological signature. Oh well. What physiological signature are you referring to Lawson? As has been explained many times here before, and by the neuroscientists who wrote The Cambridge Handbook of Consciousness (and as would be obvious to any trained neuroscientist), alpha coherence (now considered an obsolete criterion) is ubiquitous in non- meditating humans, period, and so it is also a very non-specific. Just because you've been conditioned to believe that it has a significant meaning does not mean it is actually meaningful! If it was significant you'd be forced to assume that since Joe-and Jane-on- the-street are constantly experiencing the same level of alpha coherence in their day-to-day lives they'd be popping in and out of sahaj-samadhi all the time. And clearly that is NOT the case! Actually when using appropriate controls, alpha coherence DECREASES during TM! Please see my previous post where this is scientifically demonstrated by independent scientists. Thanks. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: (I need your help)-This is a common scam!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: I believe this is a common scam, coming out of Nigeria, where the government is in cahoots with this criminal type of rip-off... I'm aware of that. I was just making a funny. More seriously, it appears that this particular Nigerian scammer has done to Nelson Riddle what the kid did to Sarah Palin early in the campaign. That is, he has taken advantage of Yahoo's lax security to go in and take over Nelson's account. If you'll notice, the pseudonym on Nelson's account was changed yesterday. This means that in all likelihood the scammer did this by taking over the account and changing the password on it. If he hadn't, there would be no point in sending out this scam with Nelson's return address as the only one posted. I would suggest that Nelson attempt to log in to his account using his old password. If it doesn't work, he should notify Yahoo security at once and ask for their help in getting his account back or closing it and opening a new one. I'm not sure why this still goes on, as it has been for so many years, and so many people being ripped off for hundreds of thousands of dollars... R.G. It's a weird kind of con man's artform. This one only plays on sympathy, and was probably sent out en masse to everyone in Nelson's address book, hoping that one or more of them would try to help him out of this dire situation. Most of the other Nigerian scams are more from the tradition of the con in that they take advantage of the sucker's *own* tendency to want to get some- thing for nothing. They'll send out a letter saying that the sucker is a long lost relative of some- one that died recently leaving the sucker their fortune if they only reply with their bank info. *Of course* the sucker knows that he isn't any such long-lost relative, but he replies anyway because he sees the possibility of free money. The essence of the scam is to include the sucker in thinking that *he* is the one pulling off the scam. Then they turn over their bank information and get robbed themselves. I could see this type of scam working very well in Fairfield, and wonder whether this particular scam artist had the same thought.
[FairfieldLife] Re: (I need your help)-This is a common scam!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: I believe this is a common scam, coming out of Nigeria, where the government is in cahoots with this criminal type of rip-off... Oh, NOW you tell me, right after I just wired him $2500. Oh well, I'll get the money back from that international lottery I just won...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard M compost...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: [snip] THAT is Maharishi's real legacy to the world. Not his teachings, but the willingness he has actively cultivated in his followers to *try to do harm* to anyone who dares to challenge those teachings. Way, way over the top IMO. I've done the courses, read the books, listened to any number of videos, been to lectures, met the chap (once). I simply do not recognise any truth in your assertion. And actively cultivated too? No way. Way. Of course the TMO has its fair share of nutters and fanatics. From what I could see that is something they brought to the party, not something MMY cultivated in them. I am certain that to some extent they brought the *extent* of their fanaticism with them to the party. But it was actively cultivated by the TMO as well. Look back at some of Curtis' recent posts, and those of others who were TM teachers. We were actually *told* how to deal with critics from within the TM organization -- demonize them. Or at least I was. It was actually codified in letters sent to us at the Western Regional Office from International Staff in Switzerland during the early 70s. Later, as a State Coordinator, I was told several times by International Staff to circulate untrue rumors about someone whom they had decided was overly critical of the TMO or off the program. I always refused. Mind you I am but a lowly siddha. I know there is a line of thought here that if you didn't go further than that and join the great elite of teachers, then you didn't get the real deal. You didn't. But you were around enough TM teachers, you *did* get it by osmosis, by watching how the teachers handled themselves, and how they handled critics of TM. That is how such cult behavior IS spread and taught. It's not written down anywhere or taught openly; even the TMO isn't stupid enough to do that. It's just policy. If you hung around a TM Center long enough or went to enough residence courses, you got to see what was done to anyone who dared to criti- cize TM or the TMO, or worse, did something deemed off the program. You see it still, in Fairfield. Why do you think so many here use pseudonyms? All these years later they're afraid of what the TMO would do to them if they knew who they were. I *understand* that you may not have ever run across this kind of garbage being taught to you personally. But others here *have* experienced it, and a lot more have learned from the environment what is proper and what is not. I'm not asking you to believe me. All I'm suggest- ing is that you *watch the trends* of Judy Stein and Nablus over the next few months. Notice WHO they choose to demonize. Notice the one thing that they all the people they choose to demonize have in common. Then figure out what's going on for yourself.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
On Dec 31, 2008, at 7:32 AM, Richard M wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: [snip] THAT is Maharishi's real legacy to the world. Not his teachings, but the willingness he has actively cultivated in his followers to *try to do harm* to anyone who dares to challenge those teachings. Way, way over the top IMO. Jolly good then--you shouldn't mind if we call you Richard from Scorpion-land then and if we withdraw teaching assets to your TM teachers and if we deliberately withdraw coherence creating programs to throw your nation into chaos? Cheerio.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Father Dom Thomas and TM
He stayed in my frat when he came to visit MIU. He went to bed at 8:00pm so we were all quiet for him. I recently wrote him a letter reminding him of his visit and how much I've enjoyed his books. He sent very friendly, eloquent reply. A very nice man. By the way, he does not give a carte blanche endorsement of TM. He is not naive. Many of the short comings of TM that we have discussed in FFL are also mentioned by him. He recognizes its benefits as a technique, but he sees much more needed for the souls quest to achieve union with God. --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Robert babajii...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Robert babajii...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] 'Father Dom Thomas and TM To: fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 2:39 AM Father Dom Thomas, visited Fairfield in the '70's and said there was no conflict with practicing TM and his religious beliefs... Father Thomas Keating Father Thomas Keating is one of the foremost teachers of contemplative prayer in the Christian tradition. He was born in New York in 1923 and converted to Catholicism while a student at Yale University in the 1940s. He entered a cloistered Roman Catholic monastery of the Cistercian order. Keating is the former abbot of St. Joseph's Abbey in Spencer, Massachusetts, and has resided at St. Benedict's Monastery in Snowmass, Colorado. He directs retreats in the practice of Centering Prayer, a cornerstone of contemporary Christian contemplative practice throughout the world. He is the author of many books, including Open Mind, Open Heart; The Mystery of Christ; Invitation to Love; and Intimacy with God. He also frequently participates in dialogues with contemplatives of other religions. Father Thomas Keating videos Oneness and the Heart of the World In this talk, Father Keating discusses the dynamic nature of God and the paradox implicit in experiencing divine oneness. (34:41)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Dec 31, 2008, at 7:32 AM, Richard M wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: [snip] THAT is Maharishi's real legacy to the world. Not his teachings, but the willingness he has actively cultivated in his followers to *try to do harm* to anyone who dares to challenge those teachings. Way, way over the top IMO. Jolly good then--you shouldn't mind if we call you Richard from Scorpion-land then and if we withdraw teaching assets to your TM teachers and if we deliberately withdraw coherence creating programs to throw your nation into chaos? Cheerio. I know it might seem boring to try to keep to the point - but none of those points seem to be to the point (see above). I believe the UK was Scorpion-land not for for its population challenging TM, but for voting for Blair his policy in Iraq? Again, if, say, I were to assert that Vaj's teachings were a load of old rubbish. And you responded OK - I'll stop giving you the benefit of my wisdom. Then I hardly think I'm going to go around protesting Vaj is deliberately *trying to do harm to me*!. No, I'd probably be relieved.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Making the Jyotish Test fair
--- On Wed, 12/31/08, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Making the Jyotish Test fair To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:19 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: As for the Turq/Barry problem; increasingly people on FFL find it mind-boggeling that a fellow who left the TMO in disgrace, having been told to keep physically away from Maharishi by His Secretaries more than 30 years ago... The TBs are getting desperate. snip At least Nabby had the balls to state his lie outright. Ask yourself this question, folks -- if I'm violating my friend's privacy, where did I get the birth data? Most probably this data is something you made up. We're both waiting to see whether JohnR will take up the challenge. As for Nabby's lie, I'm sure Jerry Jarvis would be able to tell you it's not true. Jerry Jarvis is a honourable man. He would not stand up for pathological liers like Barry/Turq. Jerry might also have a few observations about you too, Nabs! To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: to challenge those teachings. I'm not asking you to believe me. All I'm suggest- ing is that you *watch the trends* of Judy Stein and Nablus over the next few months. Notice WHO they choose to demonize. Notice the one thing that they all the people they choose to demonize have in common. Then figure out what's going on for yourself. The language of a looser. And a fool who tried to trick a Master but was himself kicked into oblivion. I have seen this again and again. Amateurs who try to change the course of a Master and His thinking, because they are convinced THEY are more intelligent, that their EGOS are greater and more important. Like the Turq was projecting into the TMO, though everybody present at the time was laughing at him for his pushiness. Everyone I know in the USA who where in the TMO at the time just laughs if I mention the Turq/Barry-fellow.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
--- On Wed, 12/31/08, mainstream20016 mainstream20...@yahoo.com wrote: From: mainstream20016 mainstream20...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 4:47 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: Why all this resistance to surgery? Flax seeds? Give me a break. Once the horse has left the barn any nutritional approach is a tad late! Again, why all this resistance to standard medical procedures? The arrogant bias against surgery has destined many individuals within the TMO, and without, to death. Do you think these now-deceased persons made some sort of point by refusing surgery, and then dying ?Apparently there are some huge egos among us who aim for fame from a non-surgical 'cure'. Wow ! I don't see it as arrogance, more fear (which could be seen as a very subtle arrogance, I guess) from ignorance and being perpetually bombarded with disinformation about natural cures. Once tumors have formed, short of a miracle, they have to be cutout or destroyed through radiation or chemotherapy. After that, perhaps a healthy diet could have some preventive impact on future reoccurrence, but cancer has a strong genetic component that no diet will directly impact. There's a bias in the TMO regarding allopathic medicine. It was recently posted here about the Purusha guy who contracted a respiratory infection while in India for Maharishi's funeral. He came back to the states, didn't do anything other than meditate and take some herbs, developed secondary bacterial infections in his lungs and died. This is incredibly stupid. What, did he think antibiotics would ruin his changes for Enlightenment? To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] the anti-TMers freak out
as is often the case at the end of the year, we reflect on what the year has brought for us. why is it at this time that our two ceaseless critics of all things Maharishi are going ballistic over TM, frothing at the mouth? because after yet another year, they remain spiritually bankrupt. these two critics are always insinuating the success of their alternative meditation practices, the breadth of their spiritual knowledge, the greatness of their teachers. and yet, neither of them has anything to show for it. when was the last time either of them wrote about a great meditation or how the wisdom of their current gurus have influenced their lives for the better? never happens. for those two, there are no great meditations, just more TM and Maharishi bashing, their failed legacy of confused and incoherent spiritual dabbling. their discussions about any spiritual topic naturally devolve into illogical and emotionally based drivel, or strings of unfounded accusations against the Maharishi and TM. such disordered minds and unhappy hearts need to be focused inwards, not writing the legacy of their failed spiritual trips here on FFL. if they were honest, both would admit that they took a serious wrong turn in their endless denigration of TM and the Maharishi, and instead talk about the relative successes of their respective spiritual practices. not a word from either one on that topic- ever. even Rick, who started this board, has clearly stated that he follows an alternative spiritual path. however it is clear he has a balanced view of TM and the Maharishi. not so for these other two, who have piled their respective failures high, and placed the blame squarely on the Maharishi's shoulders. anyone can be a critic, and that is all these anti TM, anti Maharishi critics have become, a couple of sad fellows with nothing to show in their spiritual pockets except failure and blame.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: to challenge those teachings. I'm not asking you to believe me. All I'm suggest- ing is that you *watch the trends* of Judy Stein and Nablus over the next few months. Notice WHO they choose to demonize. Notice the one thing that they all the people they choose to demonize have in common. Then figure out what's going on for yourself. The language of a looser. And a fool who tried to trick a Master but was himself kicked into oblivion. I have seen this again and again. Amateurs who try to change the course of a Master and His thinking, because they are convinced THEY are more intelligent, that their EGOS are greater and more important. Like the Turq was projecting into the TMO, though everybody present at the time was laughing at him for his pushiness. Everyone I know in the USA who where in the TMO at the time just laughs if I mention the Turq/Barry-fellow. i sure didn't buy B.'s story about how he took the siddhis course and then just faded away from the TMO, after being in the exalted position he reminds us of- regional coordinator or something. no one does that, especially not from a position in which they are respected and perform well. seems he left out many crucial conversations with his bosses at the time.:) he was definitely kicked out of the TMO, and will spend the rest of his life trying to make that someone else's fault.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
Scorpion Boy: On Dec 31, 2008, at 9:01 AM, Richard M wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Dec 31, 2008, at 7:32 AM, Richard M wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: [snip] THAT is Maharishi's real legacy to the world. Not his teachings, but the willingness he has actively cultivated in his followers to *try to do harm* to anyone who dares to challenge those teachings. Way, way over the top IMO. Jolly good then--you shouldn't mind if we call you Richard from Scorpion-land then and if we withdraw teaching assets to your TM teachers and if we deliberately withdraw coherence creating programs to throw your nation into chaos? Cheerio. I know it might seem boring to try to keep to the point - but none of those points seem to be to the point (see above). I believe the UK was Scorpion-land not for for its population challenging TM, but for voting for Blair his policy in Iraq? My impression was the the UK leadership went against the advice of Mahesh Varma, the Maharishi and withdrawing TM was his retribution for the collective consciousness of the UK being so scorpionlike (and in extenso for the TMers of Scorpionland for not keeping up enuff ME). He demonized the collective consciousness of the UK as being a scorpionland. In Maheshian metaphysics, a countries leader is a symbol of what the collective consciousness of the populace deserves. I believe that was in the spirit of what Turq was conveying, but coming from the the leader of the TMO. Maharishi's legacy to the world is punishing people or even a collective group-- and his adherents then follow by the example he gives.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Father Dom Thomas and TM
I, too, remember his visit back from around '76 or '77. I remember distinctly coming up to him in the hall of that building just to the west of the library (I forget the name of the building but the air was so stale because they were recirculating it in an attempt to save on fuel costs that it used to make me fall asleep in the classes they held there). I approached him with the intent of just saying hi but when within a few feet of him feeling a very real, profound sense of silence that I was only able to mumble something. That was the first time I'd ever had an experience like that with a monk which left the lasting impression that maybe there's something to this whole taking of silence thing. We also had a visit in those years from a Father Basil Pennington who was -- if memory serves me correctly -- a confrere of Dom Thomas' and maybe in the same order? -- but I found him a little angry, kinda like a person who needs about 25 minutes of silence coming out of meditation but takes only 2 minutes. And then there was Paul Marichal who I am not sure whether he was still a practising monk but had been? And hung around MIU for as much as a year. He developed quite a following with the students, even to the point where he conducted services in that church on campus during lunch hours that were full to overflowing. Of course, the brass put the kabosh on that pretty quickly. I do remember quite clearly seeing Curtis hanging around with him quite alot (I'm sure we've already discussed this on this forum?) and if Curtis is reading this, perhaps he can confirm it. Anyone know what happened to Paul Marichal? Am I correct in remembering that he was a TM initiator? Also trained by Maharishi to initiate monks? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: He stayed in my frat when he came to visit MIU. He went to bed at 8:00pm so we were all quiet for him. I recently wrote him a letter reminding him of his visit and how much I've enjoyed his books. He sent very friendly, eloquent reply. A very nice man. By the way, he does not give a carte blanche endorsement of TM. He is not naive. Many of the short comings of TM that we have discussed in FFL are also mentioned by him. He recognizes its benefits as a technique, but he sees much more needed for the souls quest to achieve union with God. --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Robert babajii...@... wrote: From: Robert babajii...@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] 'Father Dom Thomas and TM To: fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 2:39 AM Father Dom Thomas, visited Fairfield in the '70's and said there was no conflict with practicing TM and his religious beliefs... Father Thomas Keating Father Thomas Keating is one of the foremost teachers of contemplative prayer in the Christian tradition. He was born in New York in 1923 and converted to Catholicism while a student at Yale University in the 1940s. He entered a cloistered Roman Catholic monastery of the Cistercian order. Keating is the former abbot of St. Joseph's Abbey in Spencer, Massachusetts, and has resided at St. Benedict's Monastery in Snowmass, Colorado. He directs retreats in the practice of Centering Prayer, a cornerstone of contemporary Christian contemplative practice throughout the world. He is the author of many books, including Open Mind, Open Heart; The Mystery of Christ; Invitation to Love; and Intimacy with God. He also frequently participates in dialogues with contemplatives of other religions. Father Thomas Keating videos Oneness and the Heart of the World In this talk, Father Keating discusses the dynamic nature of God and the paradox implicit in experiencing divine oneness. (34:41)
[FairfieldLife] Re: How are you doing today(I need your help)
Dear Nelson, You poor thing! Where can I send you the $2,500.00? Please also let me send you a one-way ticket to Burlington, Vermont so that you can stay with me until you're back up on your feet. Tom Barlow Burlington, Vermont P.S. If you're from Nigeria, I assume you are a colored person? Great! I just love the colored's! Of course, I haven't actually MET one since I've lived in Vermont as we don't have any here. But I can assure you that you will be welcomed with opened arms. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nelson lafrancis nelsonriddle2...@... wrote: Dear, How are you doing today? I am sorry i didn't inform you about my traveling to Africa for a program called Empowering Youth to Fight Racism, HIV/AIDS, Poverty and Lack of Education, the program is taking place in three major countries in Africa which is Ghana , South Africa and Nigeria . It as been a very sad and bad moment for me, the present condition that i found myself is very hard for me to explain. I am really stranded in Nigeria because I forgot my little bag in the Taxi where my money, passport, documents and other valuable things were kept on my way to the Hotel am staying, I am facing a hard time here because i have no money on me. I am now owning a hotel bill of $ 1000 and they wanted me to pay the bill soon else they will have to seize my bag and hand me over to the Hotel Management., I need this help from you urgently to help me back home, I need you to help me with the hotel bill and i will also need $1500 to feed and help myself back home so please can you help me with a sum of $2500 to sort out my problems here? I need this help so much and on time because i am in a terrible and tight situation here, I don't even have money to feed myself for a day which means i had been starving so please understand how urgent i needed your help. I am sending you this e-mail from the city Library and I only have 30 min, I will appreciate what so ever you can afford to send me for now and I promise to pay back your money as soon as i return home so please let me know on time so that i can forward you the details you need to transfer the money through Money Gram or Western Union. Looking forward to hearing from you soon. Best Regards Nelson Lafrancis
[FairfieldLife] Re: (I need your help)-This is a common scam!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: I believe this is a common scam, coming out of Nigeria, where the government is in cahoots with this criminal type of rip-off... I'm not sure why this still goes on, as it has been for so many years, and so many people being ripped off for hundreds of thousands of dollars... R.G. ...and there's a Fairfield connection to the Nigerian scams as well (although it is very, very tenuous!). For two years before Jim Leach became Iowa's First District's Congressman, Democrat Ed Medvinsky held that position (Leach then unseated him in the election of '78, I believe). Indeed, Medvinsky was supposed to speak at MIU during the campaign, but never showed. A few weeks later his wife came in his stead, apologized for his no- show, and gave a speech herself (she later became a Congresswoman herself and may still be). Their son has been dating Chelsea Clinton for years. Anyway, back to the Nigeria connection: Medvinsky is (or was until recently) in federal prison for participating in the Nigerian rackets. Apparently, it started off with him being a victim and at some point him going to Nigeria or something and getting caught up doing it himself. It just goes to show you how even allegedly intelligent people can get suckered into this! Of course, he is a Democrat... -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Boy, the TMO must *really* be desperate for money if they've got the Raja for Nigeria doing this. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nelson lafrancis nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: Dear, How are you doing today? I am sorry i didn't inform you about my traveling to Africa for a program called Empowering Youth to Fight Racism, HIV/AIDS, Poverty and Lack of Education, the program is taking place in three major countries in Africa which is Ghana , South Africa and Nigeria . It as been a very sad and bad moment for me, the present condition that i found myself is very hard for me to explain. I am really stranded in Nigeria because I forgot my little bag in the Taxi where my money, passport, documents and other valuable things were kept on my way to the Hotel am staying, I am facing a hard time here because i have no money on me. I am now owning a hotel bill of $ 1000 and they wanted me to pay the bill soon else they will have to seize my bag and hand me over to the Hotel Management., I need this help from you urgently to help me back home, I need you to help me with the hotel bill and i will also need $1500 to feed and help myself back home so please can you help me with a sum of $2500 to sort out my problems here? I need this help so much and on time because i am in a terrible and tight situation here, I don't even have money to feed myself for a day which means i had been starving so please understand how urgent i needed your help. I am sending you this e-mail from the city Library and I only have 30 min, I will appreciate what so ever you can afford to send me for now and I promise to pay back your money as soon as i return home so please let me know on time so that i can forward you the details you need to transfer the money through Money Gram or Western Union. Looking forward to hearing from you soon. Best Regards Nelson Lafrancis
Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Father Dom Thomas and TM
On Dec 31, 2008, at 8:59 AM, Peter wrote: By the way, he does not give a carte blanche endorsement of TM. He is not naive. Many of the short comings of TM that we have discussed in FFL are also mentioned by him. He recognizes its benefits as a technique, but he sees much more needed for the souls quest to achieve union with God. And in fact his current offering of Centering Prayer, which has many proponents at Bangor Theological Seminary here in Maine--I've personally had a number of friends instructed in the technique, including my own mother--is actually similar to the nondual contemplation, nididhyasana of Advaita Vedanta or Mahasandhi and bears no similarity to TM. It's an open presence style of meditation. Good stuff IMO. Great to recommend to Christian friends who feel uncomfortable with eastern forms of meditation. I have an excellent article of Centering Prayer by a leading exemplar, Cynthia Bourgeault. I'll post a link later. Here's a good one on the net, Silence is God's First Language: http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Faith-Tools/Meditation/2004/11/ Silence-Is-Gods-First-Language.aspx LINK
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: Scorpion Boy: On Dec 31, 2008, at 9:01 AM, Richard M wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Dec 31, 2008, at 7:32 AM, Richard M wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: [snip] THAT is Maharishi's real legacy to the world. Not his teachings, but the willingness he has actively cultivated in his followers to *try to do harm* to anyone who dares to challenge those teachings. Way, way over the top IMO. Jolly good then--you shouldn't mind if we call you Richard from Scorpion-land then and if we withdraw teaching assets to your TM teachers and if we deliberately withdraw coherence creating programs to throw your nation into chaos? Cheerio. I know it might seem boring to try to keep to the point - but none of those points seem to be to the point (see above). I believe the UK was Scorpion-land not for for its population challenging TM, but for voting for Blair his policy in Iraq? My impression was the the UK leadership went against the advice of Mahesh Varma, the Maharishi and withdrawing TM was his retribution for the collective consciousness of the UK being so scorpionlike (and in extenso for the TMers of Scorpionland for not keeping up enuff ME). He demonized the collective consciousness of the UK as being a scorpionland. In Maheshian metaphysics, a countries leader is a symbol of what the collective consciousness of the populace deserves. I believe that was in the spirit of what Turq was conveying, but coming from the the leader of the TMO. Maharishi's legacy to the world is punishing people or even a collective group-- and his adherents then follow by the example he gives. Maharishi's legacy to the world is punishing people - oh, come now! Though I do admit I was shocked to discover that I and my compatriots were some sort of species of arachnids. Then again this account of scorpion behaviour DOES have an odd resonance: The courtship starts with the male grasping the female's pedipalps with his own; the pair then perform a dance called the promenade à deux. In reality this is the male leading the female around searching for a suitable place to deposit his spermatophore. The courtship ritual can involve several other behaviours such as juddering and a cheliceral kiss, in which the male's chelicerae clawlike mouthparts grasp the female's in a smaller more intimate version of the male's grasping the female's pedipalps and in some cases injecting a small amount of his venom into her pedipalp or on the edge of her cephalothorax,[6] probably as a means of pacifying the female. You mean that's not how you Yanks do it?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:04 AM, Richard M wrote: My impression was the the UK leadership went against the advice of Mahesh Varma, the Maharishi and withdrawing TM was his retribution for the collective consciousness of the UK being so scorpionlike (and in extenso for the TMers of Scorpionland for not keeping up enuff ME). He demonized the collective consciousness of the UK as being a scorpionland. In Maheshian metaphysics, a countries leader is a symbol of what the collective consciousness of the populace deserves. I believe that was in the spirit of what Turq was conveying, but coming from the the leader of the TMO. Maharishi's legacy to the world is punishing people or even a collective group-- and his adherents then follow by the example he gives. Maharishi's legacy to the world is punishing people - oh, come now! I think you knew what I meant was that he was punishing people for not following either his orders or in this case his demands and his ideas. Pretty megalomaniacal really.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A scam, with no basis in science? Zero proof?
John wrote: Fluctuating temperatures and abnormal weather events are an expected occurrence as the data overall clearly indicates a continuous warming trend. Shemp wrote: Here we have a quite intelligent person -- Barry Wright -- who writes well and, indeed, makes a living off of writing yet he has been brainwashed into believing he has seen levitation hundreds of times and claims that literally, thousands of others have also seen it. Is it any wonder, then, that millions of otherwise intelligent people worldwide have been brainwashed into believing that there is something called catastrophic man-made global warming...a phenomenon with absolutely ZERO proof that it exists? The reality: Barry and his thousands of fellow travellers never saw levitation and the Earth has not now nor will it ever experience catastrophic man-made global warming.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: There's a bias in the TMO regarding allopathic medicine. It was recently posted here about the Purusha guy who contracted a respiratory infection while in India for Maharishi's funeral. He came back to the states, didn't do anything other than meditate and take some herbs, developed secondary bacterial infections in his lungs and died. This is incredibly stupid. What, did he think antibiotics would ruin his changes for Enlightenment? Dear Peter, what is so wrong with dying, even as a young person ? Death is perfectly natural. What is the idea behind trying to stay aliwe when we have already been dying thousands of times ? I have a friend, she is a loving, longtime-Governor trained in India, now 90 years. She has had all the ailments in the book but wants to live untill she is 115 or 120 years. I happen to know that this pure being has the blessing from Maharishi to do whatever she likes. She does not cling to life. I have a german friend from Purusha who caught some kind of cancer at the age of 31. He refused any treatment whatsoever, left for Varanasi and dropped the body there. I still laugh when I remember the abandoun in his eyes when he said he would soon die ! I do not know the exact words Maharishi used when He was told of my friends descision to refuse treatment by german doctors, but it was a blessing and He gave His respect to my friends descision. The descision of my german friend and that of the lovely lady at 90 are the same. Only those attached to life fear death.
[FairfieldLife] I am now officially contemplating quitting TM
Nabbie's post below has created a quantum shift in my consciousness. It really does take the cake. Does this guy really practise TM? Because if he does, I really have to reconsider whether I want to be on the same path as he is. What he has written below is profoundly embarrassing...I've never seen anything quite like it. It makes me think: am I a member of the same club as this guy? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: There's a bias in the TMO regarding allopathic medicine. It was recently posted here about the Purusha guy who contracted a respiratory infection while in India for Maharishi's funeral. He came back to the states, didn't do anything other than meditate and take some herbs, developed secondary bacterial infections in his lungs and died. This is incredibly stupid. What, did he think antibiotics would ruin his changes for Enlightenment? Dear Peter, what is so wrong with dying, even as a young person ? Death is perfectly natural. What is the idea behind trying to stay aliwe when we have already been dying thousands of times ? I have a friend, she is a loving, longtime-Governor trained in India, now 90 years. She has had all the ailments in the book but wants to live untill she is 115 or 120 years. I happen to know that this pure being has the blessing from Maharishi to do whatever she likes. She does not cling to life. I have a german friend from Purusha who caught some kind of cancer at the age of 31. He refused any treatment whatsoever, left for Varanasi and dropped the body there. I still laugh when I remember the abandoun in his eyes when he said he would soon die ! I do not know the exact words Maharishi used when He was told of my friends descision to refuse treatment by german doctors, but it was a blessing and He gave His respect to my friends descision. The descision of my german friend and that of the lovely lady at 90 are the same. Only those attached to life fear death.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
no one does that, especially not from a position in which they are respected and perform well. seems he left out many crucial conversations with his bosses at the time.:) Sure they do, a lot of us did. That was one of the things that made leaving for me so poignant. I couldn't deny what I had concluded about Maharishi's teaching, but I was enjoying the fruits of 15 years of dedication to to his programs: more face time with Maharishi, teaching big groups when I wanted. And I loved teaching TM, so my decision was not easy. It would have been much easier to have been kicked out, believe me. he was definitely kicked out of the TMO, and will spend the rest of his life trying to make that someone else's fault. I don't think so but I didn't know him then. But I will say that when I left many stories like this went around about me and they couldn't have been further from the truth. The movement line is that you MUST have been disgruntled and that something must be wrong with you if you leave. You can't say I don't believe this teaching is true and just leave with dignity. The demonization of people leaving groups is one of the creepy qualities of these groups. I know you don't dig Turq but I have never seen any evidence here from people who know him personally that he left the movement for any other reason than his own decisions for his personal growth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: to challenge those teachings. I'm not asking you to believe me. All I'm suggest- ing is that you *watch the trends* of Judy Stein and Nablus over the next few months. Notice WHO they choose to demonize. Notice the one thing that they all the people they choose to demonize have in common. Then figure out what's going on for yourself. The language of a looser. And a fool who tried to trick a Master but was himself kicked into oblivion. I have seen this again and again. Amateurs who try to change the course of a Master and His thinking, because they are convinced THEY are more intelligent, that their EGOS are greater and more important. Like the Turq was projecting into the TMO, though everybody present at the time was laughing at him for his pushiness. Everyone I know in the USA who where in the TMO at the time just laughs if I mention the Turq/Barry-fellow. i sure didn't buy B.'s story about how he took the siddhis course and then just faded away from the TMO, after being in the exalted position he reminds us of- regional coordinator or something. no one does that, especially not from a position in which they are respected and perform well. seems he left out many crucial conversations with his bosses at the time.:) he was definitely kicked out of the TMO, and will spend the rest of his life trying to make that someone else's fault.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Making the Jyotish Test fair
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: --- On Wed, 12/31/08, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Making the Jyotish Test fair To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:19 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: As for the Turq/Barry problem; increasingly people on FFL find it mind-boggeling that a fellow who left the TMO in disgrace, having been told to keep physically away from Maharishi by His Secretaries more than 30 years ago... The TBs are getting desperate. snip At least Nabby had the balls to state his lie outright. Ask yourself this question, folks -- if I'm violating my friend's privacy, where did I get the birth data? Most probably this data is something you made up. We're both waiting to see whether JohnR will take up the challenge. As for Nabby's lie, I'm sure Jerry Jarvis would be able to tell you it's not true. Jerry Jarvis is a honourable man. He would not stand up for pathological liers like Barry/Turq. Jerry might also have a few observations about you too, Nabs! So Peter, are you also claiming, like the Turq, to have a friendship with JJ ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: I am now officially contemplating quitting TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcg...@... wrote: Nabbie's post below has created a quantum shift in my consciousness. It really does take the cake. Does this guy really practise TM? Because if he does, I really have to reconsider whether I want to be on the same path as he is. What he has written below is profoundly embarrassing...I've never seen anything quite like it. It makes me think: am I a member of the same club as this guy? Nabs, an adoring fan of MMY, overall does MMY's reputation more harm than good. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: There's a bias in the TMO regarding allopathic medicine. It was recently posted here about the Purusha guy who contracted a respiratory infection while in India for Maharishi's funeral. He came back to the states, didn't do anything other than meditate and take some herbs, developed secondary bacterial infections in his lungs and died. This is incredibly stupid. What, did he think antibiotics would ruin his changes for Enlightenment? Dear Peter, what is so wrong with dying, even as a young person ? Death is perfectly natural. What is the idea behind trying to stay aliwe when we have already been dying thousands of times ? I have a friend, she is a loving, longtime-Governor trained in India, now 90 years. She has had all the ailments in the book but wants to live untill she is 115 or 120 years. I happen to know that this pure being has the blessing from Maharishi to do whatever she likes. She does not cling to life. I have a german friend from Purusha who caught some kind of cancer at the age of 31. He refused any treatment whatsoever, left for Varanasi and dropped the body there. I still laugh when I remember the abandoun in his eyes when he said he would soon die ! I do not know the exact words Maharishi used when He was told of my friends descision to refuse treatment by german doctors, but it was a blessing and He gave His respect to my friends descision. The descision of my german friend and that of the lovely lady at 90 are the same. Only those attached to life fear death.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:04 AM, Richard M wrote: My impression was the the UK leadership went against the advice of Mahesh Varma, the Maharishi and withdrawing TM was his retribution for the collective consciousness of the UK being so scorpionlike (and in extenso for the TMers of Scorpionland for not keeping up enuff ME). He demonized the collective consciousness of the UK as being a scorpionland. In Maheshian metaphysics, a countries leader is a symbol of what the collective consciousness of the populace deserves. I believe that was in the spirit of what Turq was conveying, but coming from the the leader of the TMO. Maharishi's legacy to the world is punishing people or even a collective group-- and his adherents then follow by the example he gives. Maharishi's legacy to the world is punishing people - oh, come now! I think you knew what I meant was that he was punishing people for not following either his orders or in this case his demands and his ideas. Pretty megalomaniacal really. The scorpionland farce was all about the UK movements inability to build SV homes. MMY did a conference call to the siddha community in Skelmersdale where he berated them for not doing as he asked. People tried to protest that finding suitable land in England is difficult and getting planning permission even harder. Not to mention the 20% licence for the priviledge of an SV home that would seriously undermine what anyone in the north of England could afford to build. But he would have none of it It takes just a few days he claimed. I got the impression MMY tires of excuses very quickly and it degenerated into him laughing at everyone, they all thought he was laughing with them though. When Phony Blair got re-elected MMY shut down the movement because he thought it was a symbol of our poisonous collective consciousness and that TM would only make it worse (could never work that out, what happened to hold a candle to the darkness and the darkness disappears?) A few months later I heard another conference call with our raja and he said that MMY was punishing us like one punishes a naughty child, by withholding love for a while but our way back in to the movement was to build SV, which would apparently demonstrate that the UKs collective consciousness had cleared. I'm not making this up but if you buy into the TM worldview it all makes a weird kind of sense, but it was the final straw for my ability to take the TMO seriously as a useful force in the world.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: The language of a looser. And a fool who tried to trick a Master but was himself kicked into oblivion. I have seen this again and again. Amateurs who try to change the course of a Master and His thinking, because they are convinced THEY are more intelligent, that their EGOS are greater and more important. Like the Turq was projecting into the TMO, though everybody present at the time was laughing at him for his pushiness. Everyone I know in the USA who where in the TMO at the time just laughs if I mention the Turq/Barry-fellow. i sure didn't buy B.'s story about how he took the siddhis course and then just faded away from the TMO, after being in the exalted position he reminds us of- regional coordinator or something. no one does that, especially not from a position in which they are respected and perform well. seems he left out many crucial conversations with his bosses at the time.:) he was definitely kicked out of the TMO, and will spend the rest of his life trying to make that someone else's fault. This becomes obvious if you ask any american who was there at the time, Jerry Jarvis included. The Turq/Barry was kicked out of the Movement, told to stay very much away for security reasons. Some in the Movement understood that this fellow had serious problems, was unstable and needed to be isolated. From his writings against the TMO today, 30 years after he was kicked out of the Maharishi's Movement for security reasons, one can sympatize with such a view. For this he will spend the rest of his life to make that someone else's fault Very well observed.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I am now officially contemplating quitting TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcg...@... wrote: Nabbie's post below has created a quantum shift in my consciousness. It really does take the cake. Does this guy really practise TM? Because if he does, I really have to reconsider whether I want to be on the same path as he is. What he has written below is profoundly embarrassing...I've never seen anything quite like it. It makes me think: am I a member of the same club as this guy? I think Nabby is displaying a profound understanding of the vedic teaching of non-attachment. Perhaps we all become like him if we stick to the path? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: There's a bias in the TMO regarding allopathic medicine. It was recently posted here about the Purusha guy who contracted a respiratory infection while in India for Maharishi's funeral. He came back to the states, didn't do anything other than meditate and take some herbs, developed secondary bacterial infections in his lungs and died. This is incredibly stupid. What, did he think antibiotics would ruin his changes for Enlightenment? Dear Peter, what is so wrong with dying, even as a young person ? Death is perfectly natural. What is the idea behind trying to stay aliwe when we have already been dying thousands of times ? I have a friend, she is a loving, longtime-Governor trained in India, now 90 years. She has had all the ailments in the book but wants to live untill she is 115 or 120 years. I happen to know that this pure being has the blessing from Maharishi to do whatever she likes. She does not cling to life. I have a german friend from Purusha who caught some kind of cancer at the age of 31. He refused any treatment whatsoever, left for Varanasi and dropped the body there. I still laugh when I remember the abandoun in his eyes when he said he would soon die ! I do not know the exact words Maharishi used when He was told of my friends descision to refuse treatment by german doctors, but it was a blessing and He gave His respect to my friends descision. The descision of my german friend and that of the lovely lady at 90 are the same. Only those attached to life fear death.
[FairfieldLife] Walking Away
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: no one does that, especially not from a position in which they are respected and perform well. seems he left out many crucial conversations with his bosses at the time.:) Sure they do, a lot of us did. That was one of the things that made leaving for me so poignant. I couldn't deny what I had concluded about Maharishi's teaching, but I was enjoying the fruits of 15 years of dedication to to his programs: more face time with Maharishi, teaching big groups when I wanted. And I loved teaching TM, so my decision was not easy. It would have been much easier to have been kicked out, believe me. I'll chime in here, because on another group the issue of Walking Away from a long-time relationship with a spiritual teacher or a spiritual group is being discussed, and the topic is on my mind. Personally, I would think that a *lot* of the people here who have Walked Away have done so quietly and with no fanfare. It was the rare person who Walked Away from TM with fanfare. Chopra did, because he was so visible, but me and Curtis? We were just small cogs in a big machine. In all likelihood no one noticed I was gone. he was definitely kicked out of the TMO, and will spend the rest of his life trying to make that someone else's fault. I don't think so but I didn't know him then. But I will say that when I left many stories like this went around about me and they couldn't have been further from the truth. The movement line is that you MUST have been disgruntled and that something must be wrong with you if you leave. You can't say I don't believe this teaching is true and just leave with dignity. You can't be *allowed* to say I don't believe this teaching is true and just leave. You have committed heresy and must be made to PAY, even if only in the form of negative thoughts and wishes aimed at you by your former friends. That's one of the reasons I Walked Away quietly, and made no fuss about it. The only TMers I ever talked to, other than at the occasional party, had *also* Walked Away. I think it took six months or more before the people I'd previously worked with noticed that I never came to the Center any more but still lived in L.A. and put two and two together and real- ized that I'd become a heretic and they couldn't be seen with me any more. To be honest, there was *much* more demonization of me when I Walked Away from the Rama trip. TMers are real lightweights when it comes to demonizing a former friend turned heretic. The demonization of people leaving groups is one of the creepy qualities of these groups. The creepiest. I know you don't dig Turq but I have never seen any evidence here from people who know him personally that he left the movement for any other reason than his own decisions for his personal growth. That, and I could not stand to be around the TM movement any more. It had gone places and done things I could no longer allow myself to be associated with. I went to where people were nicer and more ethical, the real world. And in retrospect I think it was one of the best things I ever did in my whole life, spiritually. I'm of the opinion that Walking Away from a heavy spiritual path is one of the most transforming things that a seeker can do ON a spiritual path. Yeah, there is a value to sticking to it, no matter what, the way some people stick to a bad marriage for years, but IMO there is a possibly greater value in realizing when the marriage has jumped the shark. When I realized that my marriage to the TMO had jumped the shark, I quietly ended the TV series. Most of the people I've met who Walked Away from the TM movement did the same thing, and left quietly. Think about it...if you're Walking Away from a smelly old dead shark, do you really want to call a lot of people's attention to it? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Father Dom Thomas and TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: He stayed in my frat when he came to visit MIU. He went to bed at 8:00pm so we were all quiet for him. I recently wrote him a letter reminding him of his visit and how much I've enjoyed his books. He sent very friendly, eloquent reply. A very nice man. By the way, he does not give a carte blanche endorsement of TM. He is not naive. Many of the short comings of TM that we have discussed in FFL are also mentioned by him. He recognizes its benefits as a technique, but he sees much more needed for the souls quest to achieve union with God. This brings back many fond memories! Pete's summation of Dom Thomas's perspective on TM is right on. You already nailed it but I'll give some of my experiences in response to Vaj and Shemp. It will give me a chance to remember a very interesting part of my life. I was good friends with Paul Marechal when he was on faculty at MIU. I notice that Dr. Pete wrote a very nice review of his book on Amazon! Through Paul I got to know the monks at New Melleray, the Cistercian (Trappist) monastery in Dubuque Iowa and spent some time with Father Thomas when he was the Abbot at Saint Joseph's Abbey in Spencer Mass, both at MIU and at his monastery. Through these experiences I learned more about how glib the movement line is that TM fulfills the goals of religion, and how Maharishi's agenda with religion was as a triumphalist for his Hindu religion. The intelligent monks caught on quickly as well. The movement's true colors concerning religion came out against Paul when he tried to show that there was a tradition of mystical Christianity with techniques like the Jesus prayer. Paul got called in by the administration and was reprimanded for teaching these religious techniques. Paul was an M initiator and last I heard is back in a Christian monastery where he really belongs IMO. Saying that TM is the missing root of all religions is very offensive to people like Basil Pennington (the other monk Shemp mentioned) who had spent a lifetime studying mystical Christianity. But that didn't stop him from ripping off a lot of the way TM was taught for his own centering prayer meditation technique! He was a real intellectual and a true character. He was much less prickly in his own monastery without a lot of fresh scrubbed TM people at MIU telling him that they were going to add the root to his tradition so his leaves wouldn't dry up! When I visited Father Thomas is was after I had realized that to really be down with the Maharishi thing, I needed to give up the Christian rituals. I was fine with that. Father Thomas let me check his meditation and it was an act of kindness on his part. An understanding that I was in the throws of youthful arrogance. I remember his kindness when I meet a young version of me today! He tried to help me understand where he differed with Maharishi theologically, and was genuinely concerned for my soul I think. But there was no way he could have competed with the hours of Maharishi tapes during my months of Forest Academies. I was a Maharishi guy and I knew better than he did about almost everything, even his own religion! Today I am not a religious person but I am still fascinated with religious beliefs. I look back on my time with Maharishi and the monks fondly, I loved every minute of it. Although I have come to different conclusions now, those experiences shape who I am today and I value them. But it is also important for me to speak up when I read about TM's relation to religious beliefs. In my experience, the compatibility is superficial. If you go into Maharishi's teaching beyond the brochure you find out that if you want to get into either one deeply, there will be conflicts. Not that plenty of religious people can't enjoy TM. But you are not going to see them bowing down to Laxmi at the next movement puja to a Hindu god. Many TM people don't realize that Maharishi states that his religion is more in tune with the full laws of nature than other religions. But that perspective leaks out to anyone who is sincerely religious and gets into TM despite all the sing song assurances not to worry your pretty little religious head about Maharishi's teaching and your cute little non Vedic superficial rituals meant to remind you that you had all forgotten transcending before the mighty Maharishi restored the most important part of your religion to you, for a fee. --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Robert babajii...@... wrote: From: Robert babajii...@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] 'Father Dom Thomas and TM To: fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 2:39 AM Father Dom Thomas, visited Fairfield in the '70's and said there was no conflict with practicing TM and his religious beliefs... Father Thomas Keating Father Thomas Keating is one of the foremost teachers of contemplative prayer in
[FairfieldLife] Re: I am now officially contemplating quitting TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Nabbie's post below has created a quantum shift in my consciousness. It really does take the cake. Does this guy really practise TM? Because if he does, I really have to reconsider whether I want to be on the same path as he is. What he has written below is profoundly embarrassing...I've never seen anything quite like it. It makes me think: am I a member of the same club as this guy? I think Nabby is displaying a profound understanding of the vedic teaching of non-attachment. Perhaps we all become like him if we stick to the path? The thing is Richard; I simply do not care. Shemp may think he is in the same club as I, but he is wrong. I do not want to become a member of a club that excepts my application - Woody Allen
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com wrote: The arrogant bias against surgery has destined many individuals within the TMO, and without, to death. Do you think these now-deceased persons made some sort of point by refusing surgery, and then dying ?Apparently there are some huge egos among us who aim for fame from a non-surgical 'cure'. Wow ! I don't see it as arrogance, more fear (which could be seen as a very subtle arrogance, I guess) from ignorance and being perpetually bombarded with disinformation about natural cures. Once tumors have formed, short of a miracle, they have to be cutout or destroyed through radiation or chemotherapy. After that, perhaps a healthy diet could have some preventive impact on future reoccurrence, but cancer has a strong genetic component that no diet will directly impact. There's a bias in the TMO regarding allopathic medicine. It was recently posted here about the Purusha guy who contracted a respiratory infection while in India for Maharishi's funeral. He came back to the states, didn't do anything other than meditate and take some herbs, developed secondary bacterial infections in his lungs and died. This is incredibly stupid. What, did he think antibiotics would ruin his changes for Enlightenment? My friend is waiting for his appointment with the prostate cancer specialist on 9 January 2009. There's nothing wrong with looking at all the alternatives. This sort of surgery is not like a root canal. It's a pretty messy recovery period of about a year. The first response is, is there an alternative route. A bunch of alternatives were thrown at me in public and I'm still having to fight off well meaning but off the mark nutrition and faith healing suggestions. But it's looking more and more like the robotic surgery, if available for my friend (if the cancer has not spread), is the way to go. But that's not the end of it. I received an interesting PDF file from Johns Hopkins urging men to get a second and third opinion. It turns out that the biopsy report is very subject to interpretation and one pathologist will see cancer all over the place and another will not see any. So making sure the diagnosis is correct is in the best interest of my good buddy. The diagnosis will determine the course of treatment and obviously the outcome. Fear? Obviously my friend is fearful and I am fearful for him. But the fact is this appears to be a less cut (pardon the pun) and dried situation, according to Hopkins, so it is worth the investigation. I don't at all see my asking if there were a nutritional cure as a bad, proud or magical thinking question. I asked, I got the answers, I investigated the answers, they were wanting and are discarded. I'm sending my friend my progress as I investigate this for him and he agrees which my assessment. Now if my friend had Gleason 2-5, I would strongly urge him to try an alternate cure for a few months while being monitored for progress of the cancer. I can tell you that /I/ learned about 2 decades ago to cut out the foolishness about staying in bed and meditating extra because of a cold. I was on business in San Francisco. I had this infection in the lungs. I stayed in for two days and meditated. My boss called me up and asked me what the Hell I was doing. I told him and he told me that we don't do this sort of thing on company time. He told me to tell the hotel (it was the Hyatt in Union Square) to call a doctor for me. The doctor came to my room, diagnosed me with a pretty serious case of bronchitis, prescribed some antiobiotics. I had the prescription filled and continued meditating. It took two more days before I could go do my business. For about 10 years I ran a tendency to get bronchitis and I've been very careful since then to go to the doctor, fast. OTOH if I can tell that I've just got a cold, I'll do the extra meditations but I'll make sure I call the doctor. If I'm told we have a lot of that going around, wait a few days then call us back then I'll do that. I don't think that one should fear or avoid death. But life is a sacred gift that we hold onto as long as possible. Now I have had friends on THMD and THP who have died under circumstances where I think they should have sought real medical health first and foremost. I'll just state that as my opinion of events and leave it at that. Doctors don't save lives after all, they prolong them.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: I am now officially contemplating quitting TM
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:07 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: I am now officially contemplating quitting TM I think Nabby is displaying a profound understanding of the vedic teaching of non-attachment. Perhaps we all become like him if we stick to the path? The thing is Richard; I simply do not care. Shemp may think he is in the same club as I, but he is wrong. I do not want to become a member of a club that excepts my application - Woody Allen I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members. - Groucho Marx.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Walking Away
When I realized that my marriage to the TMO had jumped the shark, I quietly ended the TV series. Most of the people I've met who Walked Away from the TM movement did the same thing, and left quietly. Think about it...if you're Walking Away from a smelly old dead shark, do you really want to call a lot of people's attention to it? :-) When I went from the Age of Enlightenment to the Age of Embarrassment I had the same enthusiastic motivations to share what I had learned. I felt that the insights into how I had acquired the beliefs I had within the group and the way such groups function was just as profound an insight into how life works as my previous Vedic belief package. So it was natural for me to be an enthusiastic proponent of my POV on the movement after I left. That is what made me a demon in some TMer's eyes. That I didn't leave quietly but felt I had a valid POV to share that was not aligned with the PR of the movement. Before the Internet gave everyone access to everything they need to know to make an informed choice about TM, there was a very deceptive double teaching in place. When I left TM I thought it was important for people to know this about TM, which had pretty successfully sold itself as not having a belief system, but as a simple practice. Now that the cat is out of the bag and the Rajas are mincing around, I figure anyone who gets into TM had all the info they needed to decide. I didn't have a fundamental personality switch when I left. I was the same guy searching for my own truth and being vocal about what I had found. Still am. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: no one does that, especially not from a position in which they are respected and perform well. seems he left out many crucial conversations with his bosses at the time.:) Sure they do, a lot of us did. That was one of the things that made leaving for me so poignant. I couldn't deny what I had concluded about Maharishi's teaching, but I was enjoying the fruits of 15 years of dedication to to his programs: more face time with Maharishi, teaching big groups when I wanted. And I loved teaching TM, so my decision was not easy. It would have been much easier to have been kicked out, believe me. I'll chime in here, because on another group the issue of Walking Away from a long-time relationship with a spiritual teacher or a spiritual group is being discussed, and the topic is on my mind. Personally, I would think that a *lot* of the people here who have Walked Away have done so quietly and with no fanfare. It was the rare person who Walked Away from TM with fanfare. Chopra did, because he was so visible, but me and Curtis? We were just small cogs in a big machine. In all likelihood no one noticed I was gone. he was definitely kicked out of the TMO, and will spend the rest of his life trying to make that someone else's fault. I don't think so but I didn't know him then. But I will say that when I left many stories like this went around about me and they couldn't have been further from the truth. The movement line is that you MUST have been disgruntled and that something must be wrong with you if you leave. You can't say I don't believe this teaching is true and just leave with dignity. You can't be *allowed* to say I don't believe this teaching is true and just leave. You have committed heresy and must be made to PAY, even if only in the form of negative thoughts and wishes aimed at you by your former friends. That's one of the reasons I Walked Away quietly, and made no fuss about it. The only TMers I ever talked to, other than at the occasional party, had *also* Walked Away. I think it took six months or more before the people I'd previously worked with noticed that I never came to the Center any more but still lived in L.A. and put two and two together and real- ized that I'd become a heretic and they couldn't be seen with me any more. To be honest, there was *much* more demonization of me when I Walked Away from the Rama trip. TMers are real lightweights when it comes to demonizing a former friend turned heretic. The demonization of people leaving groups is one of the creepy qualities of these groups. The creepiest. I know you don't dig Turq but I have never seen any evidence here from people who know him personally that he left the movement for any other reason than his own decisions for his personal growth. That, and I could not stand to be around the TM movement any more. It had gone places and done things I could no longer allow myself to be associated with. I went to where people were nicer and more ethical, the real world. And in retrospect I think it was one of the best things I ever did in my whole life, spiritually. I'm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Walking Away
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Think about it...if you're Walking Away from a smelly old dead shark, do you really want to call a lot of people's attention to it? :-) Difference is that you were kicked out, told to leave.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
VIVA LA TURQ!! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: I think that the recent discussions about religion and the reaction to me proposing a test of Jyotish have shed important light on the *real* legacy of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. I think that we can see more evidence of his real legacy in the actions of a few True Believer followers yesterday than we can in any of his speeches or proclamations. In short, the trend I see that he actively cultivated most in his followers, and that several of his followers *demonstrated* yesterday, is: Treat any critics of TM harshly -- demonize them and do anything you possibly can to make others think that they have no credibility. You incur no bad karma for this, and in fact are fighting the good fight. It is not only acceptable to demonize these critics, it is your holy duty. This is truly scary in my opinion. At the end of 2008, I look back on an internet history of watching TM TBs *consistently* attempt to demonize anyone who criticizes TM, the TMO, and Maharishi. In one case, the *same* person has been doing this for 15 years now, first on alt.meditation.transcendental, and now for the last four years on Fairfield Life. It's grown to be such a modus operandi of this loud- mouthed spiritual hit woman that it's actually *spread*, and others have picked up the behavior from her, and think that it is acceptable or even laudable behavior. In the last four years Fairfield Life has degenerated to the point that we actually see what happened yester- day as normal, and don't think twice about it. I'm going to spend a moment thinking twice about it. All I did yesterday was propose a test of something that Maharishi believed in and sold for a high price to his TB followers -- Jyotish. The *immediate* reaction, coming *first* from the person who has been systematically attempting to demonize critics of TM for fifteen years, was to cast doubt on the test because I was a liar and my word couldn't be trusted. This cue was then picked up on by several others, who jumped on the Quick! Gotta demonize the TM critic band- wagon by screaming Liar! in unison with Judy. You know who you are -- Raunchydog, EB11, and Nabby. Then, when I took the possibility of lying out of the equation by creating impartial judges to the Jyotish Test, and giving them the answer to the challenge ahead of time, the TM TBs had to shift their strategy. Calling me a liar wasn't enough. So they shifted to more active demonization, and tried to suggest that in addition to being a liar, I was actually doing a Bad Thing by proposing this test. Judy did her best to imply that I was violating the privacy of my friend by making the person's medical condition public. She kept harping on this over and over and over, as if she thought she'd found a true gotcha and had to make sure that everyone saw it. The ludicrous- ness of this will become apparent when I post the actual answer to the test. Raunchydog jumped onto the bandwagon and Googled up some irrelevant garbage to support Judy's claim of privacy violation. Typical...not only that she'd pile on, but that she wouldn't have the ability to say anything orig- inal. Again, wait to see how red their faces are over this privacy violation issue are when I post the answer to the test. Then EB11 piled on, *not* because she gives a shit about Jyotish, but because she has been pretending to be a TMer and felt she had to side with the TBs' Gotta demonize the TM critic. Just gotta parade. And finally Nabby jumped into the fray. Realizing that calling me a liar wasn't stopping the proposed test of one of Maharishi's cherished vedic sciences, and that Judy's attempt to make me a Bad Guy wasn't working, he had to up the ante. So he made up some stuff that he *knew* I could prove wasn't true, and started demonizing me with the *worst thing he could possibly think of*. He claimed I had been thrown out of the TM movement, and kept away from Maharishi. *Besides* the fact that this is not true, isn't it interesting that that's the worst thing that Nabby could think of to say about someone? Doesn't that just *shout* religious fanatic? JohnR's part in all of this has been benign. He may or may not actually present his analysis of my friend's chart. I hope he does, because that would illustrate that at least *his* heart is in the right place. But Judy? And Raunchydog? And Nabby? And *their* part in this little drama? Actively trying to demonize me in any way they could think of for the crime of proposing this little test of something that Maharishi claimed was a science? That was pretty nauseating. They came out of this little drama looking a lot worse than John did. John will *at worst* come off as lacking cojones, if he fails to present his analysis of the chart. Or he could present one and it could be wrong. He *could* present an analysis and have
[FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: I gotta say, this whole topic has added a bit of gravitas to FFL lately. This is profound shit and I greatly appreciate your sharing your thinking process with us. Your friend is lucky to have you as a fellow health advocate for his care. There are so many complicated decisions and it is smart to go in with your eyes wide open. No one has a magic simple solution to complex medical issues. Not being afraid to jump into the complexity and seek different opinions goes against our natural desire to find a simple solution. I went through this with some loved ones so I know how strong the tendency is to stop going deeper and finding more complexity. It gets overwhelming. You are being a good friend and I wish you both good luck. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: The arrogant bias against surgery has destined many individuals within the TMO, and without, to death. Do you think these now-deceased persons made some sort of point by refusing surgery, and then dying ?Apparently there are some huge egos among us who aim for fame from a non-surgical 'cure'. Wow ! I don't see it as arrogance, more fear (which could be seen as a very subtle arrogance, I guess) from ignorance and being perpetually bombarded with disinformation about natural cures. Once tumors have formed, short of a miracle, they have to be cutout or destroyed through radiation or chemotherapy. After that, perhaps a healthy diet could have some preventive impact on future reoccurrence, but cancer has a strong genetic component that no diet will directly impact. There's a bias in the TMO regarding allopathic medicine. It was recently posted here about the Purusha guy who contracted a respiratory infection while in India for Maharishi's funeral. He came back to the states, didn't do anything other than meditate and take some herbs, developed secondary bacterial infections in his lungs and died. This is incredibly stupid. What, did he think antibiotics would ruin his changes for Enlightenment? My friend is waiting for his appointment with the prostate cancer specialist on 9 January 2009. There's nothing wrong with looking at all the alternatives. This sort of surgery is not like a root canal. It's a pretty messy recovery period of about a year. The first response is, is there an alternative route. A bunch of alternatives were thrown at me in public and I'm still having to fight off well meaning but off the mark nutrition and faith healing suggestions. But it's looking more and more like the robotic surgery, if available for my friend (if the cancer has not spread), is the way to go. But that's not the end of it. I received an interesting PDF file from Johns Hopkins urging men to get a second and third opinion. It turns out that the biopsy report is very subject to interpretation and one pathologist will see cancer all over the place and another will not see any. So making sure the diagnosis is correct is in the best interest of my good buddy. The diagnosis will determine the course of treatment and obviously the outcome. Fear? Obviously my friend is fearful and I am fearful for him. But the fact is this appears to be a less cut (pardon the pun) and dried situation, according to Hopkins, so it is worth the investigation. I don't at all see my asking if there were a nutritional cure as a bad, proud or magical thinking question. I asked, I got the answers, I investigated the answers, they were wanting and are discarded. I'm sending my friend my progress as I investigate this for him and he agrees which my assessment. Now if my friend had Gleason 2-5, I would strongly urge him to try an alternate cure for a few months while being monitored for progress of the cancer. I can tell you that /I/ learned about 2 decades ago to cut out the foolishness about staying in bed and meditating extra because of a cold. I was on business in San Francisco. I had this infection in the lungs. I stayed in for two days and meditated. My boss called me up and asked me what the Hell I was doing. I told him and he told me that we don't do this sort of thing on company time. He told me to tell the hotel (it was the Hyatt in Union Square) to call a doctor for me. The doctor came to my room, diagnosed me with a pretty serious case of bronchitis, prescribed some antiobiotics. I had the prescription filled and continued meditating. It took two more days before I could go do my business. For about 10 years I ran a tendency to get bronchitis and I've been very careful since then to go to the doctor, fast. OTOH if I can tell that I've just got a cold, I'll do the extra meditations but I'll make sure I call the doctor. If I'm told we have a lot of that going around, wait a few days then call us back then I'll do that. I don't
[FairfieldLife] Re: I am now officially contemplating quitting TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:07 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: I am now officially contemplating quitting TM I think Nabby is displaying a profound understanding of the vedic teaching of non-attachment. Perhaps we all become like him if we stick to the path? The thing is Richard; I simply do not care. Shemp may think he is in the same club as I, but he is wrong. I do not want to become a member of a club that exept my application - Woody Allen I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members. - Groucho Marx. Correct ! And a very Happy New Year to you too ! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Walking Away
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: When I realized that my marriage to the TMO had jumped the shark, I quietly ended the TV series. Most of the people I've met who Walked Away from the TM movement did the same thing, and left quietly. Think about it...if you're Walking Away from a smelly old dead shark, do you really want to call a lot of people's attention to it? :-) When I went from the Age of Enlightenment to the Age of Embarrassment I had the same enthusiastic motivations to share what I had learned. I didn't speak to anyone about Walking Away from TM (except for possibly Geezerfreak, and that would have been only humor) at all. I didn't really have anything to talk to them about. The people I was hanging out with for the first few years didn't meditate and thus wouldn't understand, and after I ran into Rama a few years later talking about TM and the TMO was kinda out of the question because...really...who had time? Things were happening so fast and furious in the present that none of us had any time to dwell on or talk about the past. It really wasn't until I stumbled upon a.m.t. many years later that I began to talk about my TM experience, or even think about it much. I found that it was fascinating *to* think about it and talk about it. Doing so helped me come to some conclusions about where I'd been and where I wanted to go. Interestingly, those same conclusions helped to guide me when I later Walked Away from the Rama trip.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Walking Away
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Think about it...if you're Walking Away from a smelly old dead shark, do you really want to call a lot of people's attention to it? :-) Difference is that you were kicked out, told to leave. exactly. his eloquence has as a liar served him well up until now. now, no one knows what to believe. until B. proves it conclusively, i'm agreeing that he was probably kicked out of the Movement with his tail between his legs. has B. done ANYTHING here on FFL quietly? not to my knowledge. it isn't his way. he made the TMO wrong, and they kicked him out, with orders not to approach Maharishi again.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Walking Away
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: When I realized that my marriage to the TMO had jumped the shark, I quietly ended the TV series. Most of the people I've met who Walked Away from the TM movement did the same thing, and left quietly. Think about it...if you're Walking Away from a smelly old dead shark, do you really want to call a lot of people's attention to it? :-) When I went from the Age of Enlightenment to the Age of Embarrassment I had the same enthusiastic motivations to share what I had learned. I didn't speak to anyone about Walking Away from TM (except for possibly Geezerfreak, and that would have been only humor) at all. I didn't really have anything to talk to them about. The people I was hanging out with for the first few years didn't meditate and thus wouldn't understand, and after I ran into Rama a few years later talking about TM and the TMO was kinda out of the question because...really...who had time? Things were happening so fast and furious in the present that none of us had any time to dwell on or talk about the past. It really wasn't until I stumbled upon a.m.t. many years later that I began to talk about my TM experience, or even think about it much. I found that it was fascinating *to* think about it and talk about it. Doing so helped me come to some conclusions about where I'd been and where I wanted to go. Interestingly, those same conclusions helped to guide me when I later Walked Away from the Rama trip. nobody including Nabby is accusing you of talking to others about your experiences after being forced out of the TMO. there is a big difference though between being booted (your reality) and your revisionist expression, walking away (your fantasy).
[FairfieldLife] The Answer to the Jyotish Test
Since it appears that JohnR is not going to respond to my challenge with his analysis of my friend's medical condition as indicated in her Jyotish chart, and I want to finish up my participation in all existing threads on FFL before the new year starts, I will post the answer. ( It goes without saying that any subsequent attempts by JohnR or any other Jyotishi to say, Oh, I saw that in the chart, but I was just late in posting my response should be greeted with howls of derisive laughter. :-) The medical issue my friend is dealing with is called being pregnant. Other than that simple and fairly common medical issue, she is 100% healthy. Her doctors, both allopathic and from the world of alternative medicine, believe that she will have a normal home birth, but just in case, arrangements have been made by the midwives at a nearby hospital in case she requires surgery. We all hope that isn't necessary. Below is the text I sent to the FFL moderators. The only thing I changed in it was to delete my friend's last name (for privacy, and to keep stalkers away from her) and to insert the word best in front of friend, because she really is my best friend. I'm heading off in a few min- utes to spend the rest of the year with her, even though that'll only be five hours. :-) Had JohnR analyzed the chart and posted that he found indicators of disease, that would have been partly because I described her condition as a medical issue. Well, duh, it is. Giving birth IS a medical issue, and never a 100% safe one. But IMO the only reason he would have found indicators of disease in her chart would have been because *he was looking for them*, and projecting them onto a chart in which they did not appear. Similarly, when Judy and Raunchydog accused me of violating my friend's privacy by making her medical condition public, they were *looking for things to demonize me with*, and projecting them onto the situation in the form of the bogus privacy straw man. Please join me in laughing at their attempts to portray me as a Bad Guy for violating my friend's medical privacy. It's hard to *miss* the medical condition of someone who is eight and a half months pregnant; keeping it private is just not an option unless you are wearing a tent. :-) The original letter to the FFL moderators follows, in case someone actually wants them to confirm that this is what I sent to them earlier. As noted above, the only thing in it I have changed is to delete my friend's last name out of concern that one or more TBs here would start stalking her the same way that they stalk me and Vaj and Paul Mason and John Knapp and others who have dared to be critical of TM or its ludicrous extra added cost products like Jyotish. I still think that this would have been an interest- ing test, if JohnR had had the cojones to respond to it. But he didn't. I think that speaks for itself about the depth of *his* belief in the accuracy and efficacy of Jyotish. But the interesting test that DID take place was how a few TM True Believers here responded to the idea of Jyotish being put to the test. If John's lack of a response speaks volumes, theirs fills libraries. Happy New Year, Unc/Turq/Barry *** Sent to Rick, Alex, and gullible_fool: As mentioned on FFL, I am challenging JohnR to use the birth data below to pinpoint the nature of the medical condition that my friend is deal- ing with. The birth data: Born: Suffern, New York, USA September 18, 1965 18:06 (6:06 p.m.) The person, and their medical condition: This is the birth data for my best friend Laurel, who is very, very pregnant and about to give birth. Both medical doctors and alternative care providers have assured her that all is perfectly fine with the pregnancy, and that there is no danger to either mother or (soon) daughter. A normal birth is planned, but as I said there is the possibility of required surgery if things don't go as planned. As I understand Jyotish, *if it works* John should have no problem with noticing this medical condition in her chart, even if I did not specify the sex of the person. In fact another Jyotish practitioner DID, in fact, predict the pregnancy from her chart a year before it happened. She wasn't trying to get pregnant.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The REAL Answer to the Jyotish Test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: -snip- But the interesting test that DID take place was how a few TM True Believers here responded to the idea of Jyotish being put to the test. If John's lack of a response speaks volumes, theirs fills libraries. Happy New Year, Unc/Turq/Barry the REALLY INTERESTING TEST THAT TOOK PLACE was the one you always fail miserably B, the test of your integrity. i guess once you got kicked out of the TMO, you figured you had nothing left to lose, huh? too bad your fool's paradise is crumbling. Happy New Year, enlightened_dawn11
[FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: Only those attached to life fear death. I agree with that, but I don't see how non-attachment to life validates reckless disregard for it. Life is still precious, and it's stupid to needlessly throw it away by not properly treating an easily treatable medical condition.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I am now officially contemplating quitting TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 mainstream20...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Nabbie's post below has created a quantum shift in my consciousness. It really does take the cake. Does this guy really practise TM? Because if he does, I really have to reconsider whether I want to be on the same path as he is. What he has written below is profoundly embarrassing...I've never seen anything quite like it. It makes me think: am I a member of the same club as this guy? Nabs, an adoring fan of MMY, overall does MMY's reputation more harm than good. you forgot to add, ...and scares the sh*t out of me.:)
[FairfieldLife] Re: New paper on TM and ADHD
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: What it shows is an improvement in this particular group of kids. But what it does not show is that this improvement is caused by the practice of TM. This is why God created control groups! This design doesn't isolate a particular variable. If there was a control group then the variable could be isolated. As you note, why David is trying to sell this indicates either that he doesn't understand research or that he does and is just shilling for the TM masses that don't understand research. Yup, the kids could improve simply because someone was paying attention to them. We have no idea.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:33 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: I have a german friend from Purusha who caught some kind of cancer at the age of 31. He refused any treatment whatsoever, left for Varanasi and dropped the body there. I still laugh when I remember the abandoun in his eyes when he said he would soon die ! What an idiot. He committed suicide and you applaud his fear of mere medical treatment. Probably reincarnate as some being without a spine. I do not know the exact words Maharishi used when He was told of my friends descision to refuse treatment by german doctors, but it was a blessing and He gave His respect to my friends descision. So he assisted in the suicide. Sounds about right. He's got a lot of blood on his (now dead) hands. The descision of my german friend and that of the lovely lady at 90 are the same. Only those attached to life fear death. Only those who recognize the preciousness of life preserve it. What fools.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 11:26 AM, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: I gotta say, this whole topic has added a bit of gravitas to FFL lately. This is profound shit and I greatly appreciate your sharing your thinking process with us. Your friend is lucky to have you as a fellow health advocate for his care. There are so many complicated decisions and it is smart to go in with your eyes wide open. No one has a magic simple solution to complex medical issues. Not being afraid to jump into the complexity and seek different opinions goes against our natural desire to find a simple solution. I went through this with some loved ones so I know how strong the tendency is to stop going deeper and finding more complexity. It gets overwhelming. You are being a good friend and I wish you both good luck. Curtis, I certainly hope that my request to this very diverse and esteemed group of character assassins **and life threateners hasn't dampened the spirit of the group. I'm feeling pretty good about the situation, as is my friend. But then I'm playing hooky from the Dome doing this research. I'm doing this all in the very rarified atmosphere of the cult we all hold so dearly. It turns out the my friend's insurance company, UnitedHealthCare, very surprisingly thinks the waters in this area are pretty muddy and are a delight to deal with in this matter. My friend and I just had a concall with a registered nurse at UHC asking what the protocol is for a second opinion. My friend said that according to Johns Hopkins, 1/3 of all prostate biopsy results are false. Would you like to go to Hopkins?, asked the nurse. That took the wind out of both of our sails. My friend and I agreed that the Austin Diagnostic Center would be perfectly fine. It's just outside of the northern part of the Austin City limits and in the high tech corridor of Austin. Where there's high tech there's good insurance coverage. Where there's good insurance coverage, there's good medicine. Plus there are a lot of TMer and Governor doctors who have privileges there. Might as well keep this all in the cult. My friend complained about the assembly line manner in which the urology practice group he's been going to operates and asked if he should expect pushback when mentioning a second opinion. My friend was told that if he receives pushback then he's obviously in the wrong place. Call back in and get the name of another urologist to see. I am very grateful for the advice that's been rendered here, though obviously it's coming from all directions and following all of it is, shall we say a personal matter? It's interesting how the group dynamics have played out. The posts and email I've received are very appreciated. I am a helper by nature, which is I guess why my friend turned to me. Yesterday I didn't know quite know what to tell my friend. Now I'm happy from the contributions here, Google and my friend's insurance company, there's a path forward. That's what matters at this point.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
yes vaj, and the people of Tibet are real stoked at having the Dalai Lama presiding over their extinction. just as the Buddhists of Myanmar and Cambodia did nothing to prevent the wholesale genocide of their countries' populations. you have the balls to imply MMY is a murderer, when Buddhists through their passivity and ineffectiveness have done absolutely nothing to prevent the slaughter of millions? shame on you. Only those who recognize the preciousness of life preserve it. indeed. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:33 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: I have a german friend from Purusha who caught some kind of cancer at the age of 31. He refused any treatment whatsoever, left for Varanasi and dropped the body there. I still laugh when I remember the abandoun in his eyes when he said he would soon die ! What an idiot. He committed suicide and you applaud his fear of mere medical treatment. Probably reincarnate as some being without a spine. I do not know the exact words Maharishi used when He was told of my friends descision to refuse treatment by german doctors, but it was a blessing and He gave His respect to my friends descision. So he assisted in the suicide. Sounds about right. He's got a lot of blood on his (now dead) hands. The descision of my german friend and that of the lovely lady at 90 are the same. Only those attached to life fear death. Only those who recognize the preciousness of life preserve it. What fools.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
You snipped improperly and attributed an email to me that I did not post! Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2008, at 1:25 PM, Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net wrote: On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:33 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: I have a german friend from Purusha who caught some kind of cancer at the age of 31. He refused any treatment whatsoever, left for Varanasi and dropped the body there. I still laugh when I remember the abandoun in his eyes when he said he would soon die ! What an idiot. He committed suicide and you applaud his fear of mere medical treatment. Probably reincarnate as some being without a spine. I do not know the exact words Maharishi used when He was told of my friends descision to refuse treatment by german doctors, but it was a blessing and He gave His respect to my friends descision. So he assisted in the suicide. Sounds about right. He's got a lot of blood on his (now dead) hands. The descision of my german friend and that of the lovely lady at 90 are the same. Only those attached to life fear death. Only those who recognize the preciousness of life preserve it. What fools.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
On Dec 31, 2008, at 1:44 PM, drpetersutphen wrote: You snipped improperly and attributed an email to me that I did not post! Actually it was Nablusoss's post that was incorrectly snipped. His bad snip--not unusual for him--carried over into the message which came solely from Nabby. So please take it up with him. Maybe if he'd get checked the problem would end. Nabby: get checked so your email snippings are more in accord with natural law.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Making the Jyotish Test fair
--- On Wed, 12/31/08, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Making the Jyotish Test fair To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 11:19 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: --- On Wed, 12/31/08, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Making the Jyotish Test fair To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:19 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: As for the Turq/Barry problem; increasingly people on FFL find it mind-boggeling that a fellow who left the TMO in disgrace, having been told to keep physically away from Maharishi by His Secretaries more than 30 years ago... The TBs are getting desperate. snip At least Nabby had the balls to state his lie outright. Ask yourself this question, folks -- if I'm violating my friend's privacy, where did I get the birth data? Most probably this data is something you made up. We're both waiting to see whether JohnR will take up the challenge. As for Nabby's lie, I'm sure Jerry Jarvis would be able to tell you it's not true. Jerry Jarvis is a honourable man. He would not stand up for pathological liers like Barry/Turq. Jerry might also have a few observations about you too, Nabs! So Peter, are you also claiming, like the Turq, to have a friendship with JJ ? Me and Jerry go way back drinking Coke and eating potato chips! To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: OK, I'm blowing my last post for the week on Ruth because she's condescended to speak to me--several times, in fact. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: snip [quoting MMY:] This meditation is no threat to the authority of priests or ministers. It is something which belongs to their religions but which has been forgotten for many centuries. Not a lot of respect for religion here Not for religion that isn't supported by a practice of regular transcending. Obviously he isn't saying one should reject religion. Obviously. But not just transcending. TM brand transcending. Effective, systematic regular transcending. He considered TM to be the only such practice available, but he said if there were others, they'd also be called transcendental meditation. With regard to ancient times, he was obviously using TM in the generic sense. Yup, TM brand meditation. As I said above. Nope, effective, systematic regular transcending, as I said above. Nope, TM brand meditation, which is the only path for regular transcending. Nothing current religions offer is adequate according to MMY. I do think that it is bullshit that TM belonged to the religions but was forgotten for centuries. The important point is that religions developed from experiences of transcendence; they're the external manifestations of internal experience. The external manifestation doesn't do you nearly as much good by itself as when you have the inner experience of which it's the manifestation. The important point is that he is saying religions have it wrong and must incorporate TM brand meditation to have it right. No, the important point is that religions developed from experiences of transcendence; they're the external manifestations of internal experience. The external manifestation doesn't do you nearly as much good by itself as when you have the inner experience of which it's the manifestation. You are repeating yourself. Yup, verbatim. That's what I tend to do when people simply issue a flat contradiction without advancing the discussion any. Patronizing again. You and I disagree on what is the important point. Nothing to advance here. Unless you think that any transcending is TM. For example, people transcend through Buddhism. Others describe transcendental experiences through prayer. If that is the same as TM , that is inconsistent with MMY's position that religions are inadequate and other techniques are the slow road, if a road at all. There are plenty of people who are religious, but do not transcend. I think that is fine as well. I think transcending is not as important as MMY made it out to be. The important point is that whatever path the religion prescribes as the way to god is not good enough, you have to have TM. You have to have regular transcendence, because religions (as I said) developed from the experience of transcendence. Without the transcendence, they're just the shell. Who suddenly remembered and why should we take their word for it? If TM was so great, why was it forgotten? Too easy to get the practice of regular transcending wrong. Really? How do you know that? Lots of residence courses listening to people describe what they're doing when they think they're doing TM, among other things. Also, if you really look closely at the instructions for TM, it becomes self-evident how exceptionally delicate it is to teach. Oh, I don't think so. I think you are fooling yourself. I am sure I could teach TM. Of course you could, if you took TM teacher training. You'd be very unlikely to teach it *successfully* without that training, though; and even with the training there would be people who didn't get it. It's not just the skill of the teacher or how good the instruction itself is; it's the very nature of the practice that makes it so elusive. I disagree. I think most of the TTC is an exercise in brain wash and is completely irrelevant to teaching TM. TM isn't elusive for those who score high on various personality traits such as suggestibility. Anyone good at putting someone in a suggestible state could teach TM. Naah, has nothing to do with suggestibility. And I say you are wrong. Again, you make a conclusory statement that adds nothing. Just by saying something isn't so, doesn't make itnot so. People who are familiar with hypnotism would know that the initiation and checking procedures are methods to put people in a suggestible state. So what. It isn't like
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: (I need your help)-This is a common scam!
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 9:02 AM, shempmcgurk shempmcg...@netscape.netwrote: Their son has been dating Chelsea Clinton for years. What do you get when you cross a crooked politician with a crooked lawyer? (Scroll down to next page) Chelsea Clinton
[FairfieldLife] Proof there is such as thing as karma
Tsk, tsk, poor Roberto Gonzales can't find a gig. http://rawstory.com/rawreplay/?p=2683
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Answer to the Jyotish Test
TurquoiseB wrote: The medical issue my friend is dealing with is called being pregnant. So the obvious question is, are you the dad? :-D As for the privacy thing, as long as you don't give the name there is no problem. Astrology books are filled with anonymous charts that astrologers have done in the past used for examples to teach astrology. Also it is not easy to predict pregnancy in a horoscope so the astrologer who did got lucky. I did however once see a medical condition coming up on a friend's palm and the condition was that she did get pregnant.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
On Dec 31, 2008, at 8:11 AM, Peter wrote: There's a bias in the TMO regarding allopathic medicine. It was recently posted here about the Purusha guy who contracted a respiratory infection while in India for Maharishi's funeral. He came back to the states, didn't do anything other than meditate and take some herbs, developed secondary bacterial infections in his lungs and died. This is incredibly stupid. Who? What, did he think antibiotics would ruin his changes for Enlightenment? Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: How are you doing today(I need your help)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcg...@... wrote: Dear Nelson, You poor thing! Where can I send you the $2,500.00? Please also let me send you a one-way ticket to Burlington, Vermont so that you can stay with me until you're back up on your feet. Tom Barlow Burlington, Vermont P.S. If you're from Nigeria, I assume you are a colored person? Great! I just love the colored's! Of course, I haven't actually MET one since I've lived in Vermont as we don't have any here. But I can assure you that you will be welcomed with opened arms. Hi Rick, I'd like Shemp removed from FFL for putting my name up in this disgusting manner. This is a very disgusting offence Shemp has committed, giving my name and location to someone asking for money. Offering someone my money by posing as me and then giving my location to them deliberately, and offering that that person can stay with me for free is not acceptable. Tom Barlow Vermont. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nelson lafrancis nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: Dear, How are you doing today? I am sorry i didn't inform you about my traveling to Africa for a program called Empowering Youth to Fight Racism, HIV/AIDS, Poverty and Lack of Education, the program is taking place in three major countries in Africa which is Ghana , South Africa and Nigeria . It as been a very sad and bad moment for me, the present condition that i found myself is very hard for me to explain. I am really stranded in Nigeria because I forgot my little bag in the Taxi where my money, passport, documents and other valuable things were kept on my way to the Hotel am staying, I am facing a hard time here because i have no money on me. I am now owning a hotel bill of $ 1000 and they wanted me to pay the bill soon else they will have to seize my bag and hand me over to the Hotel Management., I need this help from you urgently to help me back home, I need you to help me with the hotel bill and i will also need $1500 to feed and help myself back home so please can you help me with a sum of $2500 to sort out my problems here? I need this help so much and on time because i am in a terrible and tight situation here, I don't even have money to feed myself for a day which means i had been starving so please understand how urgent i needed your help. I am sending you this e-mail from the city Library and I only have 30 min, I will appreciate what so ever you can afford to send me for now and I promise to pay back your money as soon as i return home so please let me know on time so that i can forward you the details you need to transfer the money through Money Gram or Western Union. Looking forward to hearing from you soon. Best Regards Nelson Lafrancis
[FairfieldLife] New Year's Eve Ritual
So what is everyone doing for their annual New Year's Eve ritual? Having spent many a New Year's Eve being paid extra for playing music on New Year's Eve it's been a long time since I've been anywhere on the night. Around here the town throws a New Year's Eve street party. Last year it was rained out. This year it looks like fog, not rain and that might make it a little difficult to see fireworks. I don't go to these things. Too many people and I don't like crowds. So I have a DVD to watch, Towelhead by Alan Ball. Last night I watched The House Bunny on Blu-Ray. I think Anna Faris is probably one of the most talented comedienne's I've seen in a long time. Maybe comparable to Tracy Ullman. And House Bunny is her film, her concept. She was thinking about what happens to Playboy Mansion bunnies when they get too old and that is the concept of the movie. Great fun! This is pretty much by Adam Sadler's crew (too bad he isn't as funny as Faris) and some of the folks you see in his productions. This film and her Smiley Face will have you rolling on the floor laughing. Faris is not afraid to play roles that other actresses would reject. In fact she is playing a blonde bimbo in this film when Faris actually has a M.A. in Literature from the Uninversity of Washington. Got a feeling she is going to have a big career during the next few years as comedies were big during the last economic depression.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Apple iPhone Sucks-Venting
Peter wrote: Well, I finally got iTunes to load on my Windows XP platform. Got some cool apps and some music. Went to download it to my iPhone. It asked me if I wanted to upgrade to iPhone software 2.2 (was running 2.00). Sure, why not? Huge mistake. The download crashed the phone. Had to recover it and of course all media was erased. Now its constantly crashing when I try to call and the on screen slider controls don't work. This is crazy. I've spent hours every night trying to get this thing to work. Its a fucking phone, not a God damned rocket ship! If it wasn't a gift, I'd return the idiotic thing. I forgot what a crappy company Apple was. I knew there was a good reason why I switched to a PC platform so many years back. Fuck Apple, fuck Steve Jobs that fucking genius prick, fuck everybody and everything...Happy New Year! Somewhere P.T. Barnum is smiling.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I am now officially contemplating quitting TM
On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Hugo wrote: I think Nabby is displaying a profound understanding of the vedic teaching of non-attachment. Perhaps we all become like him if we stick to the path? What a horrifying thought. Sal
[FairfieldLife] More help needed on (possible) Prostate Cancer
The coordinator of my yagna group sent me an interesting URL. Since this is an international group, I'd like to draw on anyone outside the US and Canada who could help me investigate the therapy. I think it's a bunch of bull crap but I'd like to be able to prove one way or the other that it is, doing due diligence. Here's the URL: http://www.mold-survivor.com/ozone.html I am running low on available posts so since I'm using one here, I'd like to comment on a follow up to the Nigerian Scam. I am colored. Flesh colored. All through my growing up there was a crayon color called flesh which looked pretty much like the skin tone of myself and my friends (at least wintertime). I remember the very funny cartoon in Bloom County where the little black pig tailed girl was comparing the flesh Crayola with her skin and trying to resolve her confusion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity wrote: Ex teachers, Curtis, Turq, others, how much of the TTC was devoted to learning to teach? How hard is it to teach? It seems routine and easy to me. I spent every bit of my teacher training courses learning how to teach. We had to memorize most everything, which was hard for me. My TM teacher training took place in three phases: Phase 1 was where we learned to give introductory lectures and conduct the checking procedure. Phase 2 was a practicum in the field, where we presented intro lectures, checked people and administered programs such as seasonal celebrations at the TM Center. Phase 3 was where we learned how to conduct the six steps of teaching that follow the intro lecture: the prep lecture, the personal interview, the puja and instruction, and the three nights of follow-up meetings. Phase 3 took three months, with zero days off. My courses were structured in a no-man-left- behind fashion. Once I passed my tests and demonstrated my mastery of the material at hand, I became a tester for others and helped them pass their tests. Hence, I was always busy. We were all busy. We didn't have a lot of time in the day, either, because we were rounding much of the time. TM teacher training for me was a cross between military service and graduate school. Very intense. I grew a lot.
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Year's Eve Ritual
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozg...@... wrote: So what is everyone doing for their annual New Year's Eve ritual? I'll be in bed before 9pm.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
Patrick Gillam wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity wrote: Ex teachers, Curtis, Turq, others, how much of the TTC was devoted to learning to teach? How hard is it to teach? It seems routine and easy to me. I spent every bit of my teacher training courses learning how to teach. We had to memorize most everything, which was hard for me. My TM teacher training took place in three phases: Phase 1 was where we learned to give introductory lectures and conduct the checking procedure. Phase 2 was a practicum in the field, where we presented intro lectures, checked people and administered programs such as seasonal celebrations at the TM Center. Phase 3 was where we learned how to conduct the six steps of teaching that follow the intro lecture: the prep lecture, the personal interview, the puja and instruction, and the three nights of follow-up meetings. Phase 3 took three months, with zero days off. My courses were structured in a no-man-left- behind fashion. Once I passed my tests and demonstrated my mastery of the material at hand, I became a tester for others and helped them pass their tests. Hence, I was always busy. We were all busy. We didn't have a lot of time in the day, either, because we were rounding much of the time. TM teacher training for me was a cross between military service and graduate school. Very intense. I grew a lot. I thought that trying to pass memorization tests while way up in rounds was insane. It seemed to amplify any nervousness one might have whereas testing down in rounds would have been much easier. It was sort of like trying to walk a tight rope while drunk.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How are you doing today(I need your help)
On Dec 31, 2008, at 2:01 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcg...@... wrote: Dear Nelson, You poor thing! Where can I send you the $2,500.00? Please also let me send you a one-way ticket to Burlington, Vermont so that you can stay with me until you're back up on your feet. Tom Barlow Burlington, Vermont P.S. If you're from Nigeria, I assume you are a colored person? Great! I just love the colored's! Of course, I haven't actually MET one since I've lived in Vermont as we don't have any here. But I can assure you that you will be welcomed with opened arms. Hi Rick, I'd like Shemp removed from FFL for putting my name up in this disgusting manner. This is a very disgusting offence Shemp has committed, giving my name and location to someone asking for money. Offering someone my money by posing as me and then giving my location to them deliberately, and offering that that person can stay with me for free is not acceptable. Tom Barlow Vermont. Off, Rick, I say off! Now! And for the next 16 lifetimes! Otherwise I'm going to sue the entire planet for defamation. And believe me, you don't want that. I got friends in high places--literally. TB
[FairfieldLife] Re: More help needed on (possible) Prostate Cancer
--Stay away from the ozone and H2O2. Scars the cardiovascular system and largely discredited since these protocols appeared in certain Tijuana Clinics in the 70's. I've visited a number of the Tijuana clinics in the course of my research. One of the great pioneers - Dr. Ernesto Contreras, was a friend of mine. Start immediately with the MCP(modified citrus pectin), chitosan, and IP-6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) as well as the BCM-95 curcumin. (all available from LEF). Time's awastin. There's no need to hesitate since regardless if one undergoes the latest high tech radiation/chemo/scalpel or not; one should still take the supplements since there's no downside except of course the cost which insurance companies won't pay for. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: The coordinator of my yagna group sent me an interesting URL. Since this is an international group, I'd like to draw on anyone outside the US and Canada who could help me investigate the therapy. I think it's a bunch of bull crap but I'd like to be able to prove one way or the other that it is, doing due diligence. Here's the URL: http://www.mold-survivor.com/ozone.html I am running low on available posts so since I'm using one here, I'd like to comment on a follow up to the Nigerian Scam. I am colored. Flesh colored. All through my growing up there was a crayon color called flesh which looked pretty much like the skin tone of myself and my friends (at least wintertime). I remember the very funny cartoon in Bloom County where the little black pig tailed girl was comparing the flesh Crayola with her skin and trying to resolve her confusion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
On Dec 31, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Patrick Gillam wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity wrote: Ex teachers, Curtis, Turq, others, how much of the TTC was devoted to learning to teach? How hard is it to teach? It seems routine and easy to me. I spent every bit of my teacher training courses learning how to teach. We had to memorize most everything, which was hard for me. My TM teacher training took place in three phases: Phase 1 was where we learned to give introductory lectures and conduct the checking procedure. Phase 2 was a practicum in the field, where we presented intro lectures, checked people and administered programs such as seasonal celebrations at the TM Center. Phase 3 was where we learned how to conduct the six steps of teaching that follow the intro lecture: the prep lecture, the personal interview, the puja and instruction, and the three nights of follow-up meetings. Phase 3 took three months, with zero days off. My courses were structured in a no-man-left- behind fashion. Once I passed my tests and demonstrated my mastery of the material at hand, I became a tester for others and helped them pass their tests. Hence, I was always busy. We were all busy. We didn't have a lot of time in the day, either, because we were rounding much of the time. TM teacher training for me was a cross between military service and graduate school. Very intense. I grew a lot. And Patrick, everything you just described, if you took out most of the rounding as well as the brainwashing, could have been accomplished in about 2 weeks. Nothing like wasting huge amounts of time, while convincing gullible recruits it's good for them. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of MMY. Even if they think he's a fraud, TM still works in that it can deliver the ability to transcend effortlessly. Practice or believe anything you want and call it your religion. Hell, worship Beelzebub and do TM, it doesn't matter, it works. Works to do what? For whom? The TM party line is that it works for everyone. I say that is not the case. I say most people quit because of no positive effects. A few people quit because of negative effects. What is the importance of transcendence? You can't know that it isn't an artifact of the mind. Through electrical stimulation the experience can be recreated in some. So you like it, that is fine. But it doesn't mean that it is for everyone and doesn't mean that it has some cosmic significance. Maybe it does. But maybe Buddhist meditation has cosmic significance. Maybe prayer does. Maybe doing an act of kindness does. Maybe raising your children right does. I want to see results in the relative world because that is where we are.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I am now officially contemplating quitting TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Nabbie's post below has created a quantum shift in my consciousness. It really does take the cake. Does this guy really practise TM? Because if he does, I really have to reconsider whether I want to be on the same path as he is. What he has written below is profoundly embarrassing...I've never seen anything quite like it. It makes me think: am I a member of the same club as this guy? I think Nabby is displaying a profound understanding of the vedic teaching of non-attachment. Perhaps we all become like him if we stick to the path? The thing is Richard; I simply do not care. Shemp may think he is in the same club as I, but he is wrong. I do not want to become a member of a club that excepts my application - Woody Allen Actually, it was Groucho who came up with the line first. My paraphrase of it would be: I wouldn't want to be on a path that would have Nabby as an adherent.
[FairfieldLife] Joe Scarborough - Stunningly Superficial, Embarrassing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfiEpvGQ_E0
[FairfieldLife] Re: More help needed on (possible) Prostate Cancer
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: Stay away from the ozone and H2O2. Scars the cardiovascular system and largely discredited since these protocols appeared in certain Tijuana Clinics in the 70's. The popular oxidizer therapy these days is the so-called Miracle Mineral Supplement, which is basically a form of chlorine bleach (chlorine dioxide.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the Jyotish Test
Barry, I knew that even before you typed the email to the moderators. JR PS Feliz Navidad y Prospero Ano Nuevo! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Since it appears that JohnR is not going to respond to my challenge with his analysis of my friend's medical condition as indicated in her Jyotish chart, and I want to finish up my participation in all existing threads on FFL before the new year starts, I will post the answer. ( It goes without saying that any subsequent attempts by JohnR or any other Jyotishi to say, Oh, I saw that in the chart, but I was just late in posting my response should be greeted with howls of derisive laughter. :-) The medical issue my friend is dealing with is called being pregnant. Other than that simple and fairly common medical issue, she is 100% healthy. Her doctors, both allopathic and from the world of alternative medicine, believe that she will have a normal home birth, but just in case, arrangements have been made by the midwives at a nearby hospital in case she requires surgery. We all hope that isn't necessary. Below is the text I sent to the FFL moderators. The only thing I changed in it was to delete my friend's last name (for privacy, and to keep stalkers away from her) and to insert the word best in front of friend, because she really is my best friend. I'm heading off in a few min- utes to spend the rest of the year with her, even though that'll only be five hours. :-) Had JohnR analyzed the chart and posted that he found indicators of disease, that would have been partly because I described her condition as a medical issue. Well, duh, it is. Giving birth IS a medical issue, and never a 100% safe one. But IMO the only reason he would have found indicators of disease in her chart would have been because *he was looking for them*, and projecting them onto a chart in which they did not appear. Similarly, when Judy and Raunchydog accused me of violating my friend's privacy by making her medical condition public, they were *looking for things to demonize me with*, and projecting them onto the situation in the form of the bogus privacy straw man. Please join me in laughing at their attempts to portray me as a Bad Guy for violating my friend's medical privacy. It's hard to *miss* the medical condition of someone who is eight and a half months pregnant; keeping it private is just not an option unless you are wearing a tent. :-) The original letter to the FFL moderators follows, in case someone actually wants them to confirm that this is what I sent to them earlier. As noted above, the only thing in it I have changed is to delete my friend's last name out of concern that one or more TBs here would start stalking her the same way that they stalk me and Vaj and Paul Mason and John Knapp and others who have dared to be critical of TM or its ludicrous extra added cost products like Jyotish. I still think that this would have been an interest- ing test, if JohnR had had the cojones to respond to it. But he didn't. I think that speaks for itself about the depth of *his* belief in the accuracy and efficacy of Jyotish. But the interesting test that DID take place was how a few TM True Believers here responded to the idea of Jyotish being put to the test. If John's lack of a response speaks volumes, theirs fills libraries. Happy New Year, Unc/Turq/Barry *** Sent to Rick, Alex, and gullible_fool: As mentioned on FFL, I am challenging JohnR to use the birth data below to pinpoint the nature of the medical condition that my friend is deal- ing with. The birth data: Born: Suffern, New York, USA September 18, 1965 18:06 (6:06 p.m.) The person, and their medical condition: This is the birth data for my best friend Laurel, who is very, very pregnant and about to give birth. Both medical doctors and alternative care providers have assured her that all is perfectly fine with the pregnancy, and that there is no danger to either mother or (soon) daughter. A normal birth is planned, but as I said there is the possibility of required surgery if things don't go as planned. As I understand Jyotish, *if it works* John should have no problem with noticing this medical condition in her chart, even if I did not specify the sex of the person. In fact another Jyotish practitioner DID, in fact, predict the pregnancy from her chart a year before it happened. She wasn't trying to get pregnant.
[FairfieldLife] Re: New Year's Eve Ritual
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: So what is everyone doing for their annual New Year's Eve ritual? I'll be in bed before 9pm. I did not achieve all the goals I had for 2008. I still have several hours left to commit the perfect murder. s.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: I think that the recent discussions about religion and the reaction to me proposing a test of Jyotish have shed important light on the *real* legacy of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. I think that we can see more evidence of his real legacy in the actions of a few True Believer followers yesterday than we can in any of his speeches or proclamations. Barry, If you manage to get someone to take the bait for the Jyotish test, more power to ya. The fact that a few folks don't trust you has nothing to do with MMY's legacy, but about your propensity to stretch, twist or omit the truth, ya think? Non-sequitor: MMY believers don't trust Barry because of MMY. In short, the trend I see that he actively cultivated most in his followers, and that several of his followers *demonstrated* yesterday, is: Treat any critics of TM harshly -- demonize them and do anything you possibly can to make others think that they have no credibility. You incur no bad karma for this, and in fact are fighting the good fight. It is not only acceptable to demonize these critics, it is your holy duty. Tune your violins folks: The holy duty of TM Jihadists is to harshly demonize Barry and discredit him because he is anti-TM. Yikes! Another Fib of Omission! Barry, knows very well he discredits himself with a history of fibs, so of course others will caution that he may speaketh with forked tongue about the Jyotish test. This is truly scary in my opinion. At the end of 2008, I look back on an internet history of watching TM TBs *consistently* attempt to demonize anyone who criticizes TM, the TMO, and Maharishi. In one case, the *same* person has been doing this for 15 years now, first on alt.meditation.transcendental, and now for the last four years on Fairfield Life. No one is demonizing you Barry. In fact, you're attempting to demonize folks who launch legitimate criticisms of you by blaming MMY for creating mean TMO folks with an axe to grind for anti-TMers. Using a straw man to get sympathy for yourself and vilify anyone who has done you wrong by pointing out your sins of omission, might tug on a few heartstrings, but not mine. It's grown to be such a modus operandi of this loud- mouthed spiritual hit woman that it's actually *spread*, and others have picked up the behavior from her, and think that it is acceptable or even laudable behavior. In the last four years Fairfield Life has degenerated to the point that we actually see what happened yester- day as normal, and don't think twice about it. I'm going to spend a moment thinking twice about it. All I did yesterday was propose a test of something that Maharishi believed in and sold for a high price to his TB followers -- Jyotish. There's no point in claiming innocence. You were baiting John. There may be some merit to having a Jyotish test, but I don't believe your initial intention was a purely innocent inquiry into the validity of Jyotish. You recovered some credibility after you structured a test with the moderators. But, the outcome, whether correct or not, will be subject to interpretation of how close or far from the mark the reading. However, it could lead to an interesting discussion and I'd like to see it. The *immediate* reaction, coming *first* from the person who has been systematically attempting to demonize critics of TM for fifteen years, was to cast doubt on the test because I was a liar and my word couldn't be trusted. This cue was then picked up on by several others, who jumped on the Quick! Gotta demonize the TM critic band- wagon by screaming Liar! in unison with Judy. You know who you are -- Raunchydog, EB11, and Nabby. Barry, Again, criticism of you has nothing to do with being a TM critic, but with actual history of fibs. Then, when I took the possibility of lying out of the equation by creating impartial judges to the Jyotish Test, and giving them the answer to the challenge ahead of time, the TM TBs had to shift their strategy. Calling me a liar wasn't enough. So they shifted to more active demonization, and tried to suggest that in addition to being a liar, I was actually doing a Bad Thing by proposing this test. Judy did her best to imply that I was violating the privacy of my friend by making the person's medical condition public. She kept harping on this over and over and over, as if she thought she'd found a true gotcha and had to make sure that everyone saw it. The ludicrous- ness of this will become apparent when I post the actual answer to the test. Raunchydog jumped onto the bandwagon and Googled up some irrelevant garbage to support Judy's claim of privacy violation. Typical...not only that she'd pile on, but that she wouldn't have the ability to say anything orig- inal. Again, wait to see how red their faces are over this privacy violation issue are when I post the answer to the test. Well,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Prostate cancer. What to do
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Dec 31, 2008, at 1:44 PM, drpetersutphen wrote: You snipped improperly and attributed an email to me that I did not post! Actually it was Nablusoss's post that was incorrectly snipped. His bad snip--not unusual for him--carried over into the message which came solely from Nabby. So please take it up with him. Maybe if he'd get checked the problem would end. Nabby: get checked so your email snippings are more in accord with natural law. You're a freaking fool. Why would I e-mail you ? Send your excuses where they belong; to Peter.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of MMY. Even if they think he's a fraud, TM still works in that it can deliver the ability to transcend effortlessly. Practice or believe anything you want and call it your religion. Hell, worship Beelzebub and do TM, it doesn't matter, it works. Works to do what? For whom? The TM party line is that it works for everyone. I say that is not the case. I say most people quit because of no positive effects. A few people quit because of negative effects. What is the importance of transcendence? You can't know that it isn't an artifact of the mind. Through electrical stimulation the experience can be recreated in some. So you like it, that is fine. But it doesn't mean that it is for everyone and doesn't mean that it has some cosmic significance. Maybe it does. But maybe Buddhist meditation has cosmic significance. Maybe prayer does. Maybe doing an act of kindness does. Maybe raising your children right does. I want to see results in the relative world because that is where we are. maybe, maybe, maybe. maybe a horse will get you to work faster than a car. maybe when it is light out we call it night. c'mon. if you want to see results, do the damned technique, and don't get sucked into the endless BSing of a couple of critics that don't have ten years of TM practice between them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's True Legacy, as evidenced by his TB followers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: Raunchydog jumped onto the bandwagon and Googled up some irrelevant garbage to support Judy's claim of privacy violation. Typical...not only that she'd pile on, but that she wouldn't have the ability to say anything orig- inal. Again, wait to see how red their faces are over this privacy violation issue are when I post the answer to the test. Well, violation of HIPAA in the verbal, written or electronic transmission of private medical information is actually a big deal. http://tinyurl.com/9oy53m $50K and a year in prison. Wait! I got it! Barry posted the medical problems of one of his dogs for the Jyotish test! Right? Is that why he isn't concerned about HIPAA? Clever man.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the Jyotish Test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: Barry, I knew that even before you typed the email to the moderators. JR PS Feliz Navidad y Prospero Ano Nuevo! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Since it appears that JohnR is not going to respond to my challenge with his analysis of my friend's medical condition as indicated in her Jyotish chart, and I want to finish up my participation in all existing threads on FFL before the new year starts, I will post the answer. ( It goes without saying that any subsequent attempts by JohnR or any other Jyotishi to say, Oh, I saw that in the chart, but I was just late in posting my response should be greeted with howls of derisive laughter. :-) The medical issue my friend is dealing with is called being pregnant. Other than that simple and fairly common medical issue, she is 100% healthy. Her doctors, both allopathic and from the world of alternative medicine, believe that she will have a normal home birth, but just in case, arrangements have been made by the midwives at a nearby hospital in case she requires surgery. We all hope that isn't necessary. Below is the text I sent to the FFL moderators. The only thing I changed in it was to delete my friend's last name (for privacy, and to keep stalkers away from her) and to insert the word best in front of friend, because she really is my best friend. I'm heading off in a few min- utes to spend the rest of the year with her, even though that'll only be five hours. :-) Had JohnR analyzed the chart and posted that he found indicators of disease, that would have been partly because I described her condition as a medical issue. Well, duh, it is. Giving birth IS a medical issue, and never a 100% safe one. But IMO the only reason he would have found indicators of disease in her chart would have been because *he was looking for them*, and projecting them onto a chart in which they did not appear. Similarly, when Judy and Raunchydog accused me of violating my friend's privacy by making her medical condition public, they were *looking for things to demonize me with*, and projecting them onto the situation in the form of the bogus privacy straw man. Please join me in laughing at their attempts to portray me as a Bad Guy for violating my friend's medical privacy. It's hard to *miss* the medical condition of someone who is eight and a half months pregnant; keeping it private is just not an option unless you are wearing a tent. :-) The original letter to the FFL moderators follows, in case someone actually wants them to confirm that this is what I sent to them earlier. As noted above, the only thing in it I have changed is to delete my friend's last name out of concern that one or more TBs here would start stalking her the same way that they stalk me and Vaj and Paul Mason and John Knapp and others who have dared to be critical of TM or its ludicrous extra added cost products like Jyotish. I still think that this would have been an interest- ing test, if JohnR had had the cojones to respond to it. But he didn't. I think that speaks for itself about the depth of *his* belief in the accuracy and efficacy of Jyotish. But the interesting test that DID take place was how a few TM True Believers here responded to the idea of Jyotish being put to the test. If John's lack of a response speaks volumes, theirs fills libraries. Happy New Year, Unc/Turq/Barry *** Sent to Rick, Alex, and gullible_fool: As mentioned on FFL, I am challenging JohnR to use the birth data below to pinpoint the nature of the medical condition that my friend is deal- ing with. The birth data: Born: Suffern, New York, USA September 18, 1965 18:06 (6:06 p.m.) The person, and their medical condition: This is the birth data for my best friend Laurel, who is very, very pregnant and about to give birth. Both medical doctors and alternative care providers have assured her that all is perfectly fine with the pregnancy, and that there is no danger to either mother or (soon) daughter. A normal birth is planned, but as I said there is the possibility of required surgery if things don't go as planned. As I understand Jyotish, *if it works* John should have no problem with noticing this medical condition in her chart, even if I did not specify the sex of the person. In fact another Jyotish practitioner DID, in fact, predict the pregnancy from her chart a year before it happened. She wasn't trying to get pregnant. Dang, Barry. I was sure you were going to put one of your dogs up for the Jyotish test. My bad. Anyway, have a Happy New Year.
[FairfieldLife] Modified Citrus Pectin (MCP) for prostrate problems
from the medicalnewstoday website: Isaac Eliaz, M.D., L.Ac, M.S., founder of EcoNugenics, is one of the authors of the presentation and the scientist who discovered the health and detoxification benefits of PectaSol. MCP has previously been shown to increase PSA doubling time, slowing the progression of abnormal prostate cell growth and can be used to selectively get rid of toxic heavy metals in the body without effecting essential minerals, all without adverse side effects, said Dr. Eliaz. A recent study demonstrated that MCP and alginate decreased lead and mercury levels in patients with prostate cancer, depression, IBS, adrenal failure and allergies. Improvements in these chronic conditions occurred following the use of MCP. Now the international community is recognizing its effectiveness, safety and value.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ [...] But of course I have a but. Clarity of TM? Really? I don't buy that anymore. I didn't say clarity of TM. I said religion requires the clarity TM provides to live up to its potential. Wow! Talk about argumentative. Fuck! I added the word of! I have never met a person more pedantic than you. Actually, clarity of TM didn't even make sense to me in that context. Clarity FROM TM makes sense. Words matter. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: [...] Judy, Vaj did not say one dishonest thing here. He asked if you said something, and if you had that position, you would be a TB. You said that you were stating MMY's position, which may or may not be your position. End of story. Okay, I've got to go back to reading via email so that I can skip these disturbing exchanges. What I find fascinating is that Vaj DOES assert these things, but you deny it. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I'm with Billy on this one. Thanks guys for explaining more than what I had from Science of Being Art of Living and from what Judy said about MMY's beliefs concerning religion. Funny topic for me to get my panties into a wad about because I am not religious. But, science seems to get treated with the same disrespect. Believing Vedic Science underlies everything is a science killer. Only if MMY is wrong about Vedic Science in the first place, of course Lawson
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Answer to the Jyotish Test
raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: Barry, I knew that even before you typed the email to the moderators. JR PS Feliz Navidad y Prospero Ano Nuevo! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Since it appears that JohnR is not going to respond to my challenge with his analysis of my friend's medical condition as indicated in her Jyotish chart, and I want to finish up my participation in all existing threads on FFL before the new year starts, I will post the answer. ( It goes without saying that any subsequent attempts by JohnR or any other Jyotishi to say, Oh, I saw that in the chart, but I was just late in posting my response should be greeted with howls of derisive laughter. :-) The medical issue my friend is dealing with is called being pregnant. Other than that simple and fairly common medical issue, she is 100% healthy. Her doctors, both allopathic and from the world of alternative medicine, believe that she will have a normal home birth, but just in case, arrangements have been made by the midwives at a nearby hospital in case she requires surgery. We all hope that isn't necessary. Below is the text I sent to the FFL moderators. The only thing I changed in it was to delete my friend's last name (for privacy, and to keep stalkers away from her) and to insert the word best in front of friend, because she really is my best friend. I'm heading off in a few min- utes to spend the rest of the year with her, even though that'll only be five hours. :-) Had JohnR analyzed the chart and posted that he found indicators of disease, that would have been partly because I described her condition as a medical issue. Well, duh, it is. Giving birth IS a medical issue, and never a 100% safe one. But IMO the only reason he would have found indicators of disease in her chart would have been because *he was looking for them*, and projecting them onto a chart in which they did not appear. Similarly, when Judy and Raunchydog accused me of violating my friend's privacy by making her medical condition public, they were *looking for things to demonize me with*, and projecting them onto the situation in the form of the bogus privacy straw man. Please join me in laughing at their attempts to portray me as a Bad Guy for violating my friend's medical privacy. It's hard to *miss* the medical condition of someone who is eight and a half months pregnant; keeping it private is just not an option unless you are wearing a tent. :-) The original letter to the FFL moderators follows, in case someone actually wants them to confirm that this is what I sent to them earlier. As noted above, the only thing in it I have changed is to delete my friend's last name out of concern that one or more TBs here would start stalking her the same way that they stalk me and Vaj and Paul Mason and John Knapp and others who have dared to be critical of TM or its ludicrous extra added cost products like Jyotish. I still think that this would have been an interest- ing test, if JohnR had had the cojones to respond to it. But he didn't. I think that speaks for itself about the depth of *his* belief in the accuracy and efficacy of Jyotish. But the interesting test that DID take place was how a few TM True Believers here responded to the idea of Jyotish being put to the test. If John's lack of a response speaks volumes, theirs fills libraries. Happy New Year, Unc/Turq/Barry *** Sent to Rick, Alex, and gullible_fool: As mentioned on FFL, I am challenging JohnR to use the birth data below to pinpoint the nature of the medical condition that my friend is deal- ing with. The birth data: Born: Suffern, New York, USA September 18, 1965 18:06 (6:06 p.m.) The person, and their medical condition: This is the birth data for my best friend Laurel, who is very, very pregnant and about to give birth. Both medical doctors and alternative care providers have assured her that all is perfectly fine with the pregnancy, and that there is no danger to either mother or (soon) daughter. A normal birth is planned, but as I said there is the possibility of required surgery if things don't go as planned. As I understand Jyotish, *if it works* John should have no problem with noticing this medical condition in her chart, even if I did not specify the sex of the person. In fact another Jyotish practitioner DID, in fact, predict the pregnancy from her chart a year before it happened. She wasn't trying to get pregnant. Dang, Barry. I was sure you were going to put one of your dogs up for the Jyotish test. My bad. Anyway, have a Happy New Year. That might be a rather old dog wouldn't it?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: snip [quoting MMY:] This meditation is no threat to the authority of priests or ministers. It is something which belongs to their religions but which has been forgotten for many centuries. Not a lot of respect for religion here Not for religion that isn't supported by a practice of regular transcending. Obviously he isn't saying one should reject religion. Obviously. But not just transcending. TM brand transcending. Effective, systematic regular transcending. He considered TM to be the only such practice available, but he said if there were others, they'd also be called transcendental meditation. With regard to ancient times, he was obviously using TM in the generic sense. Yup, TM brand meditation. As I said above. TM brand refers to a trademark, while TM style would refer to any meditation similar enough to TM to meet with MMY's approval. Again, words matter. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letters on TM from religious/spiritual leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: The experience of transcending restores the original intention of religion, which is to give a direct experience of transcending by whatever means necessary: prayer, rosary, chanting, dancing, singing or climbing a mountain on your knees, whatever floats your boat. I think the point is that this claim about restoring what was the original intention of religion is an expression of Maharishi's grandiosity that he would know such a thing. It is coming from a Hindu perspective on what religion is all about. It has nothing to do with most versions of Christianity. It might apply to certain groups of mystical Christianity which might value such experiences. But even then it would not be outside the acceptance of Christ as a redeemer and his role in opening the possibility for eternal life as their original intention of religion . Even the reclusive Christian monks I hung out with did not buy into Maharishi's perspective what the original intention of religion is, or that he had somehow, out of all the other religions people, discovered it. Well, long before I heard about TM, i was embaressing the hell out of my Sunday school teacher (in a Uni-Uni church no less) by asking how do we know Jesus' powers were divine instead of some kind of pyschic thing? I was about 8 or 10 at the time, I guess. So, the concept that maybe modern Christianity has it wrong isn't exactly new to MMY. And, while I disagree with the claim that all spiritual practices are due to xyz physioligcal state, MMY's assertion that they are due to TC ala TM is no more absolutist than the assertion that they are due to reducing the activity of one frontal lobe of the brain. Works for me. I can see that and more power to ya. But not all religious people believe that Maharishi held such a lofty position of insight about their religions. He was not a ecumenical kind of guy. He was more of a Triumphalist. He's no more lofty (or less) than the scientists that believe that THEY have found the real secret of spirituality. My own belief is that you can describe many physiological states of the brain the same way, but they aren't the same physiological state, even so. Whether this makes some kind of real world difference is an interesting question... IF it DOES, then the question of which religion is better? has measurable answer(s), though, of course, you can change the criteria for better as you like. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: New paper on TM and ADHD
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: Just for the record. I do TM. I love TM. I just wish people that did research on TM would take the time to design better research rather than an endless parade of pilot studies that don't have much meaning to people that understand research. This type of research would not even be accepted for a master's thesis. That's how poor the design is. I wouldn't even accept it for a research project at the community college where I teach. I'd tell them to change the method to include a control group. Not difficult to do at all. As Vaj pointed out, have a matched control group close their eyes for 20 minutes twice a day. Well, in the case of ADHD students, that might not be possible. Lawson
