[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQPgSyQ2M8feature=youtube_gdata_player Sent from my iPad --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
I watched the video. As alwaysit's a rather vague and dreamy explanation of HoE, one which is not going to happen anytime soon. Perhaps in a few centuries, but more likely in the thousands of years. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQPgSyQ2M8feature=youtube_gdata_player Sent from my iPad --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
Yeah, the TMO's attitude towards any form of work was rather odd. There was a predominant attitude that those who worked, especially any form of manual labor, were just plain ignorant/lowlife people. It also reminds me of a contract the TMO signed with a construction company in NC when the TMO was moving to Heavenly Mountain. They signed a contract that stated a deadline for the construction project to be complete. For every day after that deadline, the company would have to pay $500 per day until the project was complete. This would ensure timeliness of the project. Now to me, this is a complete denial of logic of the TMO and most of its members. I remember during classes at MIU/MUM that most of the teachers and damn near every student would demonize modern materialism and all the impulses that lead us to work hard. They would especially demonize putting pressure or stress on people in order to be productive, that was simply EVIL with a capital 'E'. But then the TMO turns right around and signs a contract that puts other people (non-meditators) in a position where they HAVE to work much harder and put pressure on themselves in order to complete a project on time. So I think your description of HoE is pretty accurate. We would have to round up all the non-meditators and make them do all the Evil and ignorant activities that are beneath the holiness (but required to support them) of the TMO and all the meditators siddhas. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: The important thing is that ALL of it would be achieved without ever having to resort to that horrible thing that lesser-evolved souls have to rely on to achieve their dreams, W...W...WWORK. Can't have that. TMers (being so special and all) should just be able to sit (or bounce) on their fat butts and have it all Just Happen, because...uh...they're so special and all. That W-word is for losers; they should just be able to think HOE into existence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: Yeah, the TMO's attitude towards any form of work was rather odd. There was a predominant attitude that those who worked, especially any form of manual labor, were just plain ignorant/lowlife people. I can definitely agree with that. It posed a big problem for me during the period of time when I took over Barney Potratz's job as head HR person at TM National while he was away on his Sidhis course. I was expected to hire people to work for essentially nothing at National (room and board, and a few dollars each month to spend on frivolities like toothpaste, plus course credit that everyone knew might be rescinded and never paid to them at any moment). OK, these were not ideal conditions in which *to* hire people willing to actually W...W...W... WORK, but it was made more difficult because many of the people I interviewed had bought a certain TM meme hook, line, and sinker. That is, Do less and accomplish more; do nothing and accomplish everything. That was the fantasy that many people had bought into that described (to them) How The World Really Worked. Sadly, it doesn't. We'd hire them, and they would do absolutely NOTHING. They'd just sit around meditating and let the work assigned to them pile up. We'd wind up having to fire them within a week or two of having hired them. It was the same at MIU Press, when it was still in L.A. The presses themselves were highly technical, and had to be run by real professionals, all of whom demanded (justly) to be paid what they would be paid at any other printing plant. And they worked their butts off for their salaries; they were great people. But then they looked around at the TMers hired (for course credit and toothpaste money) to do the grunt work to support them, and saw them on the whole doing nothing. It also reminds me of a contract the TMO signed with a construction company in NC when the TMO was moving to Heavenly Mountain. They signed a contract that stated a deadline for the construction project to be complete. For every day after that deadline, the company would have to pay $500 per day until the project was complete. This would ensure timeliness of the project. That was appropriate, doncha know, because these were spit non-meditators, and thus Just Didn't Matter. They were like pack animals, there only to do what they were told, and *like* pack animals, they had to be intimidated into doing what they had been contracted to do. Compare and contrast to the highly-evolved, HOE-before- its-time way that the TMO did business. For example, when the law firm defending the TMO in the lawsuit charging that they were teaching religious practices in schools wound up losing the case, Maharishi supposedly threw a shit fit and told everyone not to pay their (by then) millions of dollars in legal fees. Jerry Jarvis (bless him) paid the bill anyway, which as I understand it was the start of him being thrown out of the TMO. Now to me, this is a complete denial of logic of the TMO and most of its members. Excuse me? Did you just use the word logic to describe the TMO and how its members think? That may be your problem if you're trying to understand it. :-) I remember during classes at MIU/MUM that most of the teachers and damn near every student would demonize modern materialism and all the impulses that lead us to work hard. They would especially demonize putting pressure or stress on people in order to be productive, that was simply EVIL with a capital 'E'. But then the TMO turns right around and signs a contract that puts other people (non-meditators) in a position where they HAVE to work much harder and put pressure on themselves in order to complete a project on time. They were not the *equals* of the TMers, doncha know? They *had* to be treated like the pack animals they were because they were spit non-meditators. So I think your description of HoE is pretty accurate. I may have gotten a little carried away with using the non- meditators for food. That might not happen because of the vegetarian thang. My bad. Non-meditators in HOE times might not even be effectively ground up and used as fertilizer, because that might make the resulting veggies non-organic. We'd have to check some arcane pseudo-Vedic scripture to get a final ruling on that question. :-) We would have to round up all the non-meditators and make them do all the Evil and ignorant activities that are beneath the holiness (but required to support them) of the TMO and all the meditators siddhas. And the oh-so-evolved TMers would have NO PROBLEM with this, either with the rounding up itself, or the forcing them to do that spit W...W...W...WORK stuff that was so beneath them. It would be viewed as merely the latest version of the Laws Of Nature replicating the oh-so-highly-evolved Indian caste system. What is
[FairfieldLife] A Message from David Lynch
http://www.davidlynchfoundation.org/emailing/2012_12_26_newyear.html David Lynch Foundation VIEW EMAIL WITH IMAGES December 27, 2012 Hello! At this time of hope and renewal, when we are gathered close together with our loved ones, we must not forget our active duty and retired military servicemen and servicewomen who have given so much to our country—and yet who now suffer from the hazardous side effects of their service, post-traumatic stress disorder. Ask veterans Tara Wise, Luke Jensen, and Jake Clark who suffered from the nightmare of this disorder and considered suicide many times, but whose lives were dramatically turned around from Transcendental Meditation. They will tell you this technique is saving lives. The tragic statistic is that 20 times more veterans died this year from suicide than active duty personnel died in combat. The David Lynch Foundation is working to partner with military and government organizations to deliver Transcendental Meditation to thousands of veterans who desperately need our help. But the wheels of government grind slowly—and we can’t afford to wait because people are suffering now. And sadly, it’s not just military personnel who are in this bind; it’s at-risk students in urban schools, women and girls who are victims of domestic abuse and trafficking, homeless adults and children, and others. The David Lynch Foundation needs your help. Please consider a generous gift this season. Your one-time or automatic monthly gift will greatly benefit so many lives. You can make your donation here. Thank you in advance for whatever support you can give. And on behalf of the entire David Lynch Foundation, we wish you a happy holiday season and a healthy, safe, and prosperous New Year. Your friend, David Lynch Founder and Chair PS Please take three minutes to view this compelling video of Afghan war veteran Luke Jensen and his wife Abi talking about how Transcendental Meditation saved Luke from a life of anxiety, depression—and ultimately, suicide. Copyright 2012, David Lynch Foundation. All rights reserved. http://www.davidlynchfoundation.org/emailing/2012_12_26_newyear.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: Yeah, the TMO's attitude towards any form of work was rather odd. There was a predominant attitude that those who worked, especially any form of manual labor, were just plain ignorant/lowlife people. It also reminds me of a contract the TMO signed with a construction company in NC when the TMO was moving to Heavenly Mountain. They signed a contract that stated a deadline for the construction project to be complete. For every day after that deadline, the company would have to pay $500 per day until the project was complete. This would ensure timeliness of the project. Now to me, this is a complete denial of logic of the TMO and most of its members. I remember during classes at MIU/MUM that most of the teachers and damn near every student would demonize modern materialism and all the impulses that lead us to work hard. They would especially demonize putting pressure or stress on people in order to be productive, that was simply EVIL with a capital 'E'. But then the TMO turns right around and signs a contract that puts other people (non-meditators) in a position where they HAVE to work much harder and put pressure on themselves in order to complete a project on time. OToneH, this is standard procedure in the building trade and it doesn't really put undue pressure on the workers as it's they themselves who get to help work out the project finish date. It just keeps them on their toes. My guess is they farmed in someone in the TMO who had experience in the trade to draw up the contract. OTOH, I personally witnessed a few instances where people who had been hired to do things for us were treated like they didn't matter and a fair few of us were shocked at, not just the lack of respect shown, but at the casual way the image of the TMO would be trashed in the eyes of the people we messed around or we didn't pay for services. I cared about things like that then and thought the idea that it must be their karma or it wouldn't have happened was a sad dodge of decent manners. But then they are all just pawns in Nature's grand design and don't understand their place in the great unfolding of HoE. Apparently. So I think your description of HoE is pretty accurate. We would have to round up all the non-meditators and make them do all the Evil and ignorant activities that are beneath the holiness (but required to support them) of the TMO and all the meditators siddhas. But the caste system is a beautiful thing. If you're at the top seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: The important thing is that ALL of it would be achieved without ever having to resort to that horrible thing that lesser-evolved souls have to rely on to achieve their dreams, W...W...WWORK. Can't have that. TMers (being so special and all) should just be able to sit (or bounce) on their fat butts and have it all Just Happen, because...uh...they're so special and all. That W-word is for losers; they should just be able to think HOE into existence.
[FairfieldLife] Hobbes and Bacon
Many of you who loved Calvin and Hobbes may know of this loving tribute, set 26 years later, after Calvin has grown up and is now trying to deal with his own daughter, but I didn't. These are the only episodes I know about, and I know nothing about who created them, so if you find more, or more about the author, please pass it along. Enjoy... http://www.pantsareoverrated.com/archive/2011/05/10/hobbes-and-bacon/ http://www.pantsareoverrated.com/archive/2011/05/12/hobbes-and-bacon-002/ http://www.pantsareoverrated.com/archive/2011/10/11/hobbes-and-bacon-03-2/ http://www.pantsareoverrated.com/archive/2011/10/13/hobbes-and-bacon-04-2/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
You have been out of the TM mentality for too long Barry which shows in your ideas of what place non-TM'ers would have in the enlightened world - don't you remember Maha saying that the day would come when everyone would want to do TM? That the teachers would have to run to the mountains to get away from the hordes who were flocking to them demanding to be initiated? These would be the teachers who, I assume would fly above the taxis that would be taking some teachers to the mountains. So that means that there would be virtually no non-meditators. Which would of course mean that all people practicing other meditations would have converted to TM. I certainly had the same experience as you on maybe a smaller scale of the work ethic at MIU in the 80's - those of us in kitchen services, housekeeping, physical plant did work like hell - there was no choice - you either did it or people didn't eat or have decent heat or ac in the summer - but most of the folks in desk jobs - man, every time you went to see someone in the administrative offices for some important matter, you could pretty much count on them not being in their offices when they were supposed to be From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:54 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? A good question. I have no definitive answers, having bailed from the TMO long before they started selling HOE's on street corners. :-) My suspicion, based on the time I was there and the mentality shown by TM TB's I've encountered since, is that almost no one ever really *thought* about the nature of HOE at all. They just knew that it was a Good Thing because they'd been told it was, and it was To Be Sought because...well...ALL the best stuff in life was to be eternally Sought, and never achieved. That's just how things are. :-) If they imagine HOE at all, I suspect it looks a lot like this, only without the Hobbit: Everything all bright and shiny, celestial light all around, making everything look like those tacky pastel paintings in TM books. The important thing is that ALL of it would be achieved without ever having to resort to that horrible thing that lesser-evolved souls have to rely on to achieve their dreams, W...W...WWORK. Can't have that. TMers (being so special and all) should just be able to sit (or bounce) on their fat butts and have it all Just Happen, because...uh...they're so special and all. That W-word is for losers; they should just be able to think HOE into existence. Of course there would be no crime (because everyone would be in accord with the Laws Of Nature), and everything would be wonderful all the time. You could eat all the ice cream and lollipops and sugar you wanted, and never have to worry about diabetes, exactly the way Maharishi lived. (That diabetes thing he ignored was just because of the non-HOE environment, doncha know). Buck would be out of a job because there would be
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
With his energy being what it is it is hard even for me to have hard feelings towards him when I watch a video - beautiful words he expresses, but he really doesn't say much - just in essence that heaven on earth is possible and if we do TM it will happen From: raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:18 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQPgSyQ2M8feature=youtube_gdata_player Sent from my iPad --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: But the caste system is a beautiful thing. If you're at the top Just occurred to me, is it true, that in the Rgveda, the word 'varNa' (color; caste) primarily referred to skin color? Like the Northern (originally even arctic??) Aryans as opposed to the indigenous (black, kRSNa) people of India? varNa m. cover, lid; outside, external appearance, colour, dye, paint, complexion; sort, kind, character, sort of men i.e. caste; letter, sound, vowel, syllable, word; praise, glory.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: You have been out of the TM mentality for too long Barry which shows in your ideas of what place non-TM'ers would have in the enlightened world - don't you remember Maha saying that the day would come when everyone would want to do TM? That the teachers would have to run to the mountains to get away from the hordes who were flocking to them demanding to be initiated? You may be correct that I overlooked this. I wrote this off as bullshit when it...uh...not only didn't happen, but when TM became widely known as the tackiest and least hip form of meditation one could possibly learn. :-) These would be the teachers who, I assume would fly above the taxis that would be taking some teachers to the mountains. So that means that there would be virtually no non-meditators. Which would of course mean that all people practicing other meditations would have converted to TM. Nonsense. Who would do the actual *work*? People who regard others as their servants always *need* servants, so there would *have* to always be non- meditators for the TM meditators to look down on. It's just the way life works. :-) I certainly had the same experience as you on maybe a smaller scale of the work ethic at MIU in the 80's - those of us in kitchen services, housekeeping, physical plant did work like hell - there was no choice - you either did it or people didn't eat or have decent heat or ac in the summer - but most of the folks in desk jobs - man, every time you went to see someone in the administrative offices for some important matter, you could pretty much count on them not being in their offices when they were supposed to be It was worse when I was hiring at National because we pretty much had to hire initiators (as a result of some decree from International). Everyone in charge (especially Jerry) knew that we would get a much higher quality of workers by hiring TMers who weren't teachers, but we were hamstrung by the rules imposed on us. As a result, we wound up having to hire the walking wounded just back from some TTC or ATR course and so spaced out that they could barely find their mouths with a fork. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:54 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? A good question. I have no definitive answers, having bailed from the TMO long before they started selling HOE's on street corners. :-) My suspicion, based on the time I was there and the mentality shown by TM TB's I've encountered since, is that almost no one ever really *thought* about the nature of HOE at all. They just knew that it was a Good Thing because they'd been told it was, and it was To Be Sought because...well...ALL the best stuff in life was to be eternally Sought, and never achieved. That's just how things are. :-) If they imagine
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: With his energy being what it is it is hard even for me to have hard feelings towards him when I watch a video - beautiful words he expresses, but he really doesn't say much - just in essence that heaven on earth is possible and if we do TM it will happen Duh. This is Cult Marketing 101. If you promise it but never define what 'it' is, no one can sue you when you don't deliver. From: raunchydog raunchydog@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:18 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQPgSyQ2M8feature=youtube_gdata_player Sent from my iPad --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
TMers never had that model to benefit from. Many of them strove to *avoid* work whenever and however possible. Their loss. Maybe that explains why none of them ever achieved the enlightenment they claimed to be pursuing so diligently. I think I already sometime in the past mentioned the episode where Susan Humphries threatened to have me immediately dismissed from MIU for my refusal to run my department in the kitchen according to maharishi's theory of management meaning that I was to sit on my can and do nothing except delegate all orders to my subordinates. Even in my TM addiction days I thought it was such an (unfunny) joke that the TMO always touts the effects of TM as creating greater efficiency, greater returns on ones efforts in life (excellence in action) when most of the TMO leadership and even mid to low lever managers were always rude, inefficient, indolent and notoriously unable to get things done. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:54 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? A good question. I have no definitive answers, having bailed from the TMO long before they started selling HOE's on street corners. :-) My suspicion, based on the time I was there and the mentality shown by TM TB's I've encountered since, is that almost no one ever really *thought* about the nature of HOE at all. They just knew that it was a Good Thing because they'd been told it was, and it was To Be Sought because...well...ALL the best stuff in life was to be eternally Sought, and never achieved. That's just how things are. :-) If they imagine HOE at all, I suspect it looks a lot like this, only without the Hobbit: Everything all bright and shiny, celestial light all around, making everything look like those tacky pastel paintings in TM books. The important thing is that ALL of it would be achieved without ever having to resort to that horrible thing that lesser-evolved souls have to rely on to achieve their dreams, W...W...WWORK. Can't have that. TMers (being so special and all) should just be able to sit (or bounce) on their fat butts and have it all Just Happen, because...uh...they're so special and all. That W-word is for losers; they should just be able to think HOE into existence. Of course there would be no crime (because everyone would be in accord with the Laws Of Nature), and everything would be wonderful all the time. You could eat all the ice cream and lollipops and sugar you wanted, and never have to worry about diabetes, exactly the way Maharishi lived. (That diabetes thing he ignored was just because of the non-HOE environment, doncha know). Buck would be out of a job because there would be nothing for him to bitch about. There would be no dome slackers because anyone who didn't show up for program would be hunted down, thrown across one of his horses, and dragged back to the domes, where they would be forced to sit up straight and be Perfect
[FairfieldLife] Re: China Opens the Longest Rail Line in the World
Share Long: I meant Tai Chi (-: Authentic T'ai chi ch'uan is a type of Qigong that involves movement, positionng, breathing, and meditation. The main symbol of Qigong is the Dharmachakra Yantra. In Vajrayana Buddhism, the Dharmachakra represents the doctrine of enlightenment, founded by the Buddha Shakya the Muni, the first historical yogin in India. The Buddhist doctrine was introduced to China by Bodhidharma, the founder of the Chan (meditation) sect at Shaolin, of Yogacara, so-called because this Indian sect practiced dhyana (meditation) as instructed by the Buddha. Because his students spent a lot of time in sitting meditation, Bodhi Dharma developed techniques for physical conditioning- Kung Fu, which is the parent of all Qigong. In contrast to the Buddha's spiritual yoga, the Chinese communist government has banned meditation in public in China. If you are caught meditating in China you will be accused of belonging to a deviant cult, arrested and sent to prison. Belief in Buddha or enlightenment is NOT a doctrine supported by the atheistic government of China. In 1999, in response to widespread revival of old traditions of spirituality, morality, and mysticism, the Chinese government took measures to enforce control of public qigong practice, including banning groups such as Zhong Gong and Falun Gong. Qigong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong Work cited: Bodhidharma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhidharma 'Zen Buddhism: A History, 1 - India and China' By Heinrich Dumoulin Macmillan, 1988 Those pictures of Chinese people young and old, male and female practicing qigong all together... Don't confuse Chinese government sponsored qigong with Falun Gong, the non-sectarian program of spiritual qigong. True qigong has nothing to do with mandated communist propaganda or the torture of Tibetans and other minorities. In July 1999, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) banned Falun Gong and began a nationwide crackdown and multifaceted propaganda campaign against the practice; in October 1999 it declared Falun Gong an evil cult... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong
[FairfieldLife] Re: China Opens the Longest Rail Line in the World
Share Long: From all these contacts and experience I think the Chinese people are pretty amazing. I doubt that any form of government could permanently defeat them. Maybe support of Nature is in their DNA (-: Hundreds of thousands are believed to have been imprisoned extrajudicially, and practitioners in detention are reportedly subjected to forced labor, psychiatric abuse, torture, and other coercive methods of thought reform at the hands of Chinese authorities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moderators, pls. sanction this poster
my favorite synonym for the word thesaurus From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:56 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moderators, pls. sanction this poster --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: synonyms for thesaurus: glossary, language reference book, lexicon, onomasticon, reference book, sourcebook, storehouse of words, terminology, treasury of words, vocabulary, word list My favorite is onomasticon. Your favourite what? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 8:07 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moderators, pls. sanction this poster  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey no_reply@ wrote: In all seriousness, though, I can't believe you're fixated on a stupid little rule on FFL when there's the very real homosexual menace that truly threatens to wipe out all of humanity. http://s1143.beta.photobucket.com/user/azgrey/media/trannysaurus_zpse9b8e2e2.jpg.html I dunno... that comic is kinda dumb, but I keep going back and giggling at it. It's also appropriate, given recent news. The Trannysaurus probably went extinct the same way the Brontosaurus did, by never existing: http://www.npr.org/2012/12/09/15795/forget-extinct-the-brontosaurus-never-even-existed I get a kick out of dinosaurs and dinosaur trivia because I live with a not-quite-four-years-old kid who can identify, call by name, and spell the names of more dinosaurs than most high school science teachers. She's a real dino nut. Other little-known dinosaurs: H. That reminds me. What's another word for thesaurus? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL)
I would. If only I could (-: From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 12/27/2012 01:48 PM, Emily Reyn wrote: OMG...look what we have to suffer through. This is so soporific. Barry, please move Bob, at the very least, or Robin (whoever the hell this post is from - you can figure it out, smart fellow that you are) to the category with Ravi and I (and that weird guy Willy). Buck should remain in a category by himself. Now, for you Barry, because I love you too, is a cute JRT story. We bought the little dog a couple of presents...a squirrel and a small squeaky football. My older daughter, unbeknownst to me, wrapped them and hid them under the tree. I was up late, as usual, wrapping presents on Christmas Eve and again Christmas morning. When I was out of the room on Christmas morn, little dog, sneaky dog that she is, politely rummaged through the presents. I walked in to see her sitting on the couch (on her towel) with her squirrel in front of her and the wrapping paper off to the side, looking expectantly up at me. The ball was nearby, half-unwrapped. Can you believe that she only pulled her own presents out? What a smart dog, what a polite dog, what a festive dog. If my kids hadn't absconded with my camera charger, or if I had a smart phone, I would have taken a picture and posted it for you. I think I should train this one for movies. She should earn her keep and save me from my fate in the workforce. Although, turns out a cousin of my ex's worked in Dubai the last two years and if I didn't have a teenager and a little dog, I would put forth great effort to work there. Very multicultural. The police drive Mercedes Benz's. He loved it...he made lots of moneyhe said he'd hook me up. He made 3.5 times what he would have made here in the U.S. Options, man, options. My sister had a Yorkshire terrier that could find her own presents under the tree. We thought it might be the rubber in the toys. I think it might have to do with the dog feeling the intention of the person who wrapped their gifts. Those people who are the kind of dog lovers who not only buy but wrap their dog's gifts have some mighty strong loves vibes going on, it gets into the wrapping paper you know. Would you agree Share?
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: I watched the video. As alwaysit's a rather vague and dreamy explanation of HoE, one which is not going to happen anytime soon. Perhaps in a few centuries, but more likely in the thousands of years. seekliberation It seems to me you knew this before you asked the question. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQPgSyQ2M8feature=youtube_gdata_player Sent from my iPad --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
Another funny coincidence in all this in terms of astrology.One of the primary planets that rules over spirituality, Saturn (ketu is the other), is not only a planet that rules over spirituality, but also discipline, responsibility, humility, and working. You would think that groups of people who identify with spirituality would be the most disciplined, humble, and productive individuals. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: TMers never had that model to benefit from. Many of them strove to *avoid* work whenever and however possible. Their loss. Maybe that explains why none of them ever achieved the enlightenment they claimed to be pursuing so diligently. I think I already sometime in the past mentioned the episode where Susan Humphries threatened to have me immediately dismissed from MIU for my refusal to run my department in the kitchen according to maharishi's theory of management meaning that I was to sit on my can and do nothing except delegate all orders to my subordinates. Even in my TM addiction days I thought it was such an (unfunny) joke that the TMO always touts the effects of TM as creating greater efficiency, greater returns on ones efforts in life (excellence in action) when most of the TMO leadership and even mid to low lever managers were always rude, inefficient, indolent and notoriously unable to get things done. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:54 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? A good question. I have no definitive answers, having bailed from the TMO long before they started selling HOE's on street corners. :-) My suspicion, based on the time I was there and the mentality shown by TM TB's I've encountered since, is that almost no one ever really *thought* about the nature of HOE at all. They just knew that it was a Good Thing because they'd been told it was, and it was To Be Sought because...well...ALL the best stuff in life was to be eternally Sought, and never achieved. That's just how things are. :-) If they imagine HOE at all, I suspect it looks a lot like this, only without the Hobbit: Everything all bright and shiny, celestial light all around, making everything look like those tacky pastel paintings in TM books. The important thing is that ALL of it would be achieved without ever having to resort to that horrible thing that lesser-evolved souls have to rely on to achieve their dreams, W...W...WWORK. Can't have that. TMers (being so special and all) should just be able to sit (or bounce) on their fat butts and have it all Just Happen, because...uh...they're so special and all. That W-word is for losers; they should just be able to think HOE into existence. Of course there would be no crime (because everyone would be in accord with the Laws Of Nature), and
[FairfieldLife] Naked shorting?
Can anybody give an example of *naked* short selling simple enough that even a reely rly stooopid Finn might understand it? :D
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation It's difficult to explain HOE because it makes a great toll on the imagination on those involved. For example, during the full AE communication as we know it with spoken words will be obsolute because the ability to communicate directly and over any distance instantaneously will be fully developed in every man. Many here probably have had this experience already, but with time this will be the norm. Now, how can you imagine that ? You can't, unless you've already experienced this naural phenomena. The Age of Enlightenment will grow as old tendencies die away and new takes their place. There is no need for the TMO to spend time trying to describe something in detail which will take place in a natural way anyway. When asked what music will be like in the Age of Enlightenment Maharishi said More simple, more profound. That is not something one can describe in detail, it has to be experienced. Life is going to be very enjoyable -Maharishi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5C8DxeVScw
[FairfieldLife] had any lately ha ha
Not THAT any! Had any support of Nature lately? Emily asked about support of Nature and I was thinking about it and feeling befuddled. Realized that I tend to agree with Ken Keyes idea that everything in life is either for our growth or for our enjoyment. I'd add that ideally everything is for both growth and enjoyment but with leaning at least a little in the enjoyment direction. So in this very broad sense support of Nature is always happening. Anyway, I don't think this is precisely what Maharishi means by support of Nature. What do you TMers current and ex think, especially you govs? Very especially you former TTC teachers. We know who you are! For me an example of support of Nature is that I left FF on a Wednesday and the first big snow of the season arrived the next day. But I bet you very creative FFLers can come up with way more fun examples than that (-:
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
I can't give you any concrete examples of support of nature because...uh...it doesn't exist. What I can give you is a definition that might help you to better under- stand what's going on: Support of nature is what mood-making TMers call coincidence. Something ordinary happens, and because they want to feel important and as if something they think of as 'Nature' is rearranging things just to suit them, they project something onto the ordinary event to make it seem like *more* than coincidence. It isn't. There. Happy to have been of service. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Not THAT any! Had any support of Nature lately? Emily asked about support of Nature and I was thinking about it and feeling befuddled. Realized that I tend to agree with Ken Keyes idea that everything in life is either for our growth or for our enjoyment. I'd add that ideally everything is for both growth and enjoyment but with leaning at least a little in the enjoyment direction. So in this very broad sense support of Nature is always happening. Anyway, I don't think this is precisely what Maharishi means by support of Nature. What do you TMers current and ex think, especially you govs? Very especially you former TTC teachers. We know who you are! For me an example of support of Nature is that I left FF on a Wednesday and the first big snow of the season arrived the next day. But I bet you very creative FFLers can come up with way more fun examples than that (-:
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: With his energy being what it is it is hard even for me to have hard feelings towards him when I watch a video - beautiful words he expresses, but he really doesn't say much - just in essence that heaven on earth is possible and if we do TM it will happen From: raunchydog raunchydog@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:18 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? Â http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQPgSyQ2M8feature=youtube_gdata_player Sent from my iPad --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. Here is the way out of this problem! Stop taking it literally. Heaven on Earth is a description of an internal situation. No one has to work any longer because there is no one (self) left. Your body can be mining coal, but you are not. There is no stress or difficulty because there is no person to experience that any longer. The world can continue on as a hell or a heaven in its qualities, but at least internally you are out of it all :) Still, I hope for comfort and physical and emotional and mental security for us all. I like the Buddhist approach that any job done with awareness and good intent is at least a good thing and at best a spiritual practice. In the old days of the TMO the rankings of people were: Money, TM status, the rest of you. But I think that changed at some point - 10 or 20 years ago? Heart got restored and I believe that there is a more egalitarian and heart-based attitude, right? I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Not THAT any! Had any support of Nature lately? Emily asked about support of Nature and I was thinking about it and feeling befuddled. Realized that I tend to agree with Ken Keyes idea that everything in life is either for our growth or for our enjoyment. I'd add that ideally everything is for both growth and enjoyment but with leaning at least a little in the enjoyment direction. So in this very broad sense support of Nature is always happening. Anyway, I don't think this is precisely what Maharishi means by support of Nature. What do you TMers current and ex think, especially you govs? Very especially you former TTC teachers. We know who you are! For me an example of support of Nature is that I left FF on a Wednesday and the first big snow of the season arrived the next day. But I bet you very creative FFLers can come up with way more fun examples than that (-: I have had some experiences where what I was thinking or expecting actually happened in a woo woo ish way. And times when it felt scarily as if I could control situations with my quiet thoughts (not mentally ill). But what I think was going on was that my own thoughts had aligned with what was to be, with Nature. It was not that Nature aligned with my intentions and wishes. The experience was that the only thoughts that arose were those that on some very quiet level were really just a reflection of the flow of events already set in motion. I had tuned in to That. It kind of felt as if I was moving things, but I seriously doubt it, since there were not many thoughts and they did not have the usual feel that I was controlling them. The thoughts just were there. I think when most fo the time things happen that we feel are good luck or suport of Nature, it is just a nice intersection of events that would happen anyway coinciding with our own patterns. Gotta hit the gym.
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
There is something way oversimplified in your definition of 'support of nature' for me Share. First of all, to believe there is such a thing we have to imagine ourselves somehow in the center of things, we have to be a bit egocentric. For example, for you to believe that somehow this large weather system 'waited' for you to leave FF is putting a whole lot of importance on who you are and what you do. You also have to assume that by not getting caught in the storm this was somehow a good thing. In addition, you would have to believe that 'nature' is operating primarily with you in mind (the egocentric part of the equation) but what about all the other individuals on the planet that this event (of the storm) impacted negatively? Did they somehow not garner the same support that you did and why? What did you do to earn this support of nature? Meditate? Fly? Wear the right clothing? Eat the appropriate foods? Have you considered that if you had been waylaid in your exiting FF by the snow something really astoundingly wonderful and life transformative could have happened instead and that, in fact, you escaping FF before the storm hit was actually a bad thing because of what you missed if you had been marooned there? In other words, you interpreted your having got out of FF before the storm hit as support of nature when in fact maybe it was one of the most unfortunate things that ever happened to you. Maybe if you had been trapped by the weather, never got home for Christmas, you would be enlightened by now, or met the man of your dreams or discovered the alchemical formula to make gold. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Not THAT any! Had any support of Nature lately? Emily asked about support of Nature and I was thinking about it and feeling befuddled. Realized that I tend to agree with Ken Keyes idea that everything in life is either for our growth or for our enjoyment. I'd add that ideally everything is for both growth and enjoyment but with leaning at least a little in the enjoyment direction. So in this very broad sense support of Nature is always happening. Anyway, I don't think this is precisely what Maharishi means by support of Nature. What do you TMers current and ex think, especially you govs? Very especially you former TTC teachers. We know who you are! For me an example of support of Nature is that I left FF on a Wednesday and the first big snow of the season arrived the next day. But I bet you very creative FFLers can come up with way more fun examples than that (-:
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation It's difficult to explain HOE because it makes a great toll on the imagination on those involved. For example, during the full AE communication as we know it with spoken words will be obsolute because the ability to communicate directly and over any distance instantaneously will be fully developed in every man. Many here probably have had this experience already, but with time this will be the norm. Now, how can you imagine that ? You can't, unless you've already experienced this naural phenomena. The Age of Enlightenment will grow as old tendencies die away and new takes their place. There is no need for the TMO to spend time trying to describe something in detail which will take place in a natural way anyway. When asked what music will be like in the Age of Enlightenment Maharishi said More simple, more profound. That is not something one can describe in detail, it has to be experienced. Life is going to be very enjoyable -Maharishi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5C8DxeVScw Just occurred to me, would AoE be a boring hell for enterprising people who are extremely fond of various kinds of challenges? As extreme examples, base jumpers, mountain climbers, and stuff.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
Hold your breath till HOE sets in. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 9:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation It's difficult to explain HOE because it makes a great toll on the imagination on those involved. For example, during the full AE communication as we know it with spoken words will be obsolute because the ability to communicate directly and over any distance instantaneously will be fully developed in every man. Many here probably have had this experience already, but with time this will be the norm. Now, how can you imagine that ? You can't, unless you've already experienced this naural phenomena. The Age of Enlightenment will grow as old tendencies die away and new takes their place. There is no need for the TMO to spend time trying to describe something in detail which will take place in a natural way anyway. When asked what music will be like in the Age of Enlightenment Maharishi said More simple, more profound. That is not something one can describe in detail, it has to be experienced. Life is going to be very enjoyable -Maharishi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5C8DxeVScw
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
I wish you would write a book about your experiences with the TMO - guys like you and other old timers are living repositories of history - after all the TMO was a world wide movement and M probably the most successful con artist of the 20th Century - I hope you will tell your story one day. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 8:25 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: You have been out of the TM mentality for too long Barry which shows in your ideas of what place non-TM'ers would have in the enlightened world - don't you remember Maha saying that the day would come when everyone would want to do TM? That the teachers would have to run to the mountains to get away from the hordes who were flocking to them demanding to be initiated? You may be correct that I overlooked this. I wrote this off as bullshit when it...uh...not only didn't happen, but when TM became widely known as the tackiest and least hip form of meditation one could possibly learn. :-) These would be the teachers who, I assume would fly above the taxis that would be taking some teachers to the mountains. So that means that there would be virtually no non-meditators. Which would of course mean that all people practicing other meditations would have converted to TM. Nonsense. Who would do the actual *work*? People who regard others as their servants always *need* servants, so there would *have* to always be non- meditators for the TM meditators to look down on. It's just the way life works. :-) I certainly had the same experience as you on maybe a smaller scale of the work ethic at MIU in the 80's - those of us in kitchen services, housekeeping, physical plant did work like hell - there was no choice - you either did it or people didn't eat or have decent heat or ac in the summer - but most of the folks in desk jobs - man, every time you went to see someone in the administrative offices for some important matter, you could pretty much count on them not being in their offices when they were supposed to be It was worse when I was hiring at National because we pretty much had to hire initiators (as a result of some decree from International). Everyone in charge (especially Jerry) knew that we would get a much higher quality of workers by hiring TMers who weren't teachers, but we were hamstrung by the rules imposed on us. As a result, we wound up having to hire the walking wounded just back from some TTC or ATR course and so spaced out that they could barely find their mouths with a fork. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:54 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? A good question. I have no definitive
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@... wrote: Life is going to be very enjoyable -Maharishi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5C8DxeVScw Just occurred to me, would AoE be a boring hell for enterprising people who are extremely fond of various kinds of challenges? As extreme examples, base jumpers, mountain climbers, and stuff. With the unlimited Universe to explore there will be plenty of challenges for those seeking aventure :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Hold your breath till HOE sets in. Why ? I'm experiencing telepathy on a daily basis. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 9:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation It's difficult to explain HOE because it makes a great toll on the imagination on those involved. For example, during the full AE communication as we know it with spoken words will be obsolute because the ability to communicate directly and over any distance instantaneously will be fully developed in every man. Many here probably have had this experience already, but with time this will be the norm. Now, how can you imagine that ? You can't, unless you've already experienced this naural phenomena. The Age of Enlightenment will grow as old tendencies die away and new takes their place. There is no need for the TMO to spend time trying to describe something in detail which will take place in a natural way anyway. When asked what music will be like in the Age of Enlightenment Maharishi said More simple, more profound. That is not something one can describe in detail, it has to be experienced. Life is going to be very enjoyable -Maharishi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5C8DxeVScw
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: There is something way oversimplified in your definition of 'support of nature' for me Share. First of all, to believe there is such a thing we have to imagine ourselves somehow in the center of things, we have to be a bit egocentric. For example, for you to believe that somehow this large weather system 'waited' for you to leave FF is putting a whole lot of importance on who you are and what you do. You also have to assume that by not getting caught in the storm this was somehow a good thing. In addition, you would have to believe that 'nature' is operating primarily with you in mind (the egocentric part of the equation) but what about all the other individuals on the planet that this event (of the storm) impacted negatively? Did they somehow not garner the same support that you did and why? What did you do to earn this support of nature? Meditate? Fly? Wear the right clothing? Eat the appropriate foods? Have you considered that if you had been waylaid in your exiting FF by the snow something really astoundingly wonderful and life transformative could have happened instead and that, in fact, you escaping FF before the storm hit was actually a bad thing because of what you missed if you had been marooned there? In other words, you interpreted your having got out of FF before the storm hit as support of nature when in fact maybe it was one of the most unfortunate things that ever happened to you. Maybe if you had been trapped by the weather, never got home for Christmas, you would be enlightened by now, or met the man of your dreams or discovered the alchemical formula to make gold. Whatever the vicissitudes of life's circumstances, cause and effect in the field of karma is unfathomable or maybe Share had a lucky coin that dropped in the right slot at the right time. No need to place woo woo on a mundane event in one's life. Just be glad you're not an unlucky traveler stuck in the snow. IMO a working definition of Support of Nature is good luck. In Jyotish parlance, it's a well aspected 9th house. Robin might call it grace. Ann, those lucky days where everything seems to go flawlessly, without a hitch, where one feels, in sync, in harmony with all that is, where one's efforts are effortless, or the laws of nature rush to support you, as Maharishi would say, what would you call such days? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Not THAT any! Had any support of Nature lately? Emily asked about support of Nature and I was thinking about it and feeling befuddled. Realized that I tend to agree with Ken Keyes idea that everything in life is either for our growth or for our enjoyment. I'd add that ideally everything is for both growth and enjoyment but with leaning at least a little in the enjoyment direction. So in this very broad sense support of Nature is always happening. Anyway, I don't think this is precisely what Maharishi means by support of Nature. What do you TMers current and ex think, especially you govs? Very especially you former TTC teachers. We know who you are! For me an example of support of Nature is that I left FF on a Wednesday and the first big snow of the season arrived the next day. But I bet you very creative FFLers can come up with way more fun examples than that (-:
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: I have had some experiences where what I was thinking or expecting actually happened in a woo woo ish way. And times when it felt scarily as if I could control situations with my quiet thoughts (not mentally ill). But what I think was going on was that my own thoughts had aligned with what was to be, with Nature. It was not that Nature aligned with my intentions and wishes. The experience was that the only thoughts that arose were those that on some very quiet level were really just a reflection of the flow of events already set in motion. I had tuned in to That. I can appreciate your careful phrasing here, Susan, and the thought you've given to this. I identify more with the idea of supporting nature (both in small case letters) than I do the support of Nature. I do not conceive of (and have never conceived of) Nature as a sentient entity, capable of having its own intent or plan for anything, or even deserving the capital letter. Thus I don't easily think of nature controlling anything in any way, or having the ability to do so, or even having the consciousness to do so. nature just is. It is literally What Is, whatever is. What I can identify with is feeling from time to time in tune with What Is, with nature just doing its thing. But even as a TB TMer I never believed in Support of Nature, as Maharishi used the phrase. If I felt myself in the flow, and that things seemed to be going more smoothly today than other days, in my view (both then and now), nature had nothing to do with that. If anything, I had just succeeded in quieting my mind to the point where it didn't throw up any internal roadblocks to things going smoothly, and as a result it seemed that things *were* going more smoothly. In reality, as I saw it then and now, *I* was going more smoothly. Nature hadn't done a damned thing, and wasn't paying any attention. It couldn't; it didn't *have the ability* to pay attention, not being sentient and all. I always managed to get by in the TMO while carrying around this somewhat heretical belief. :-) I carefully avoided giving any advanced lectures that ever mentioned the concept of support of nature as Maharishi gave voice to it, and was spared anyone ever asking a question about it, because if they had I would have told them what MMY had said on the subject, but then would have had to explain that I disagreed with it completely. It kind of felt as if I was moving things, but I seriously doubt it, since there were not many thoughts and they did not have the usual feel that I was controlling them. The thoughts just were there. Did you notice how effortlessly they came? Something good is happening. :-) I think when most fo the time things happen that we feel are good luck or suport of Nature, it is just a nice intersection of events that would happen anyway coinciding with our own patterns. That sounds like a great way to think of things, but I'm not even convinced of the that would happen anyway part of it. I don't believe that anything is supposed to happen or inevitably will happen. I think that the universe is eternally in flux, with no fixed plan or future, and that the direction or outcome or future path of this constant flow-flux can be changed at any moment. We *DO* influence the world around us, and occasionally can keep things from happening that would otherwise most likely happened. The day I happened to be sitting there when a neighborhood cat decided to take a flying fuck at a floating swan and found himself in a canal he couldn't climb out of strikes me as one of those occasions. There was no one else around. If I had done nothing, the cat would most likely have drowned, as so many do every year when they fall into the canals. But I was there, and I pulled the cat out. Now, is it more Occam's Razor likely that I just happened to be there, and the cat just happened to benefit from that, or that there was some Grand Plan somewhere that shaped all of the events of my life (and the cat's) such that I was somehow led there at that time and place to earn my cat-saving merit badge? Personally, even if there is sentience behind the What Is of nature, I pretty seriously don't believe that I am important enough in the general scheme of things for it to feel the need to micromanage my life to that extent. I have similar doubts about whether it was necessary to micromanage the cat's life to that extent. I randomly found myself to that bench, watched a random cat try to bag a swan ten times larger than it was, laughed (I admit it), but then realized that the cat was in trouble, so I fished him out. Cat was lucky I was there, and I was lucky to be there, because even though the cat scratched the hell out of my arm to thank me, I felt good about the whole thing anyway. If nature is really Nature, and sentient, and went to all that trouble to
[FairfieldLife] A one-minute clip from a recent Aarati at the end of Atirudrabhishek
Aarati celebrates the glowing, joyful light of our own inner nature. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=2idTxMC0_xA
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I wish you would write a book about your experiences with the TMO - guys like you and other old timers are living repositories of history - after all the TMO was a world wide movement and M probably the most successful con artist of the 20th Century - I hope you will tell your story one day. Sorry, not much chance of that, for many reasons. I wasn't really around all that long, and didn't have all that much close contact with Maharishi, just more than some because of the Regional Office/State Coordinator thang. Curtis would be a better bet to write about the TM movement than I would, at least from the non-TB perspective you're speaking about. On another level, I have so Been There Done That with writing about studying with a spiritual teacher than I hope not to repeat the experience in any incarnation. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
I saw a TV show last night about the Spirituali movement in 15th century Italy. In parallel to the outside Protestant movement, It was an attempt by forces *within* the Catholic Church to both spread the word that intercession isn't necessary between humans and God, and bring an end to the corruption within the institution. Michelangelo was caught in the middle of it, and some of his commissioned art reflects this. Spoiler Alert: The Spirituali lost. The status quo Cardinal provided evidence to The Inquisition, which he had revived, that the Cardinal backing the Spirituali had distributed copies of the Bible in Italian, vs. Latin, and to *non-clergy* - a serious crime. The good guy repented, fled to England, despite ongoing attempts by the Vatican to have him extradited back to Rome, for a friendly chat. So the idea that humans have a direct link to God has been absent from any western tradition, because of this. Maharishi revived this idea, and ability, in the West. He discovered through his own inquiry, that it is the Evening of Kali Yuga, a time when suffering increases for humanity, leading to the darkest night. He discovered that the darkness is maintained by Mother Divine to maintain the cosmic cycle of time. Rather than have the Divine Mother remove the engines of negativity from the atmosphere, he discovered that each of us is either a polluter, or purifier, of the atmosphere. Through spreading the technique which removes any intermediaries between us and the forces of life and death, he has made it possible for each of us to make that choice for ourselves, what we choose to be. Although he has spoken about the descent of Heaven On Earth, he has also spoken about such a phenomenon being a localized effect, with pockets of strife continuing across the globe. I don't know whether this was a modification of his earlier proclamations. Ultimately, though, he puts the responsibility for any of this Heaven or Hell right back on each of us. Even if tomorrow magically became a paradise, most of us wouldn't notice.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQPgSyQ2M8feature=youtube_gdata_player Sent from my iPad --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation
[FairfieldLife] Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the organisation over many years, but had no more to do with it after I got close to an Indian working for the organisation at a senior level. He confided in me that the top people close to Maharishi had asked him to smuggle gold during his trips from Europe and USA back to India!! When he refused they pressured him and made him break down, threatening he would have no future in the organisation if he didn't comply. Thus was back in the 90's when Maharishi was still alive. No wonder the movement in India is rich! http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529
[FairfieldLife] Reflections on Dec 21
From the friend of a friend of a friend: Reflections on the events of Dec 12, 2012 As the Global Mother Divine director for Guatemala, I thought I’d pass on some reflections I had from the events on December 21 this year in Monte Alban. I don’t really know that much about it and certainly shouldn’t be taken as an authority. Much of this is just what I have gleaned from glimpses I have gained while trying to keep in touch with it in spare moments over the last few years. The first part is meant to be fact. I hope I’ve got all the details at least mostly right. Many of you may know most of this and more. The Mayans never actually thought that Dec 21 was going to be the end of the world. In fact, until 2010 the Mayans never even talked about the ending of their calendar at all. The Mayans are, in general, quite happy and comfortable to stay to themselves. Not many are welcome into their world and very few ever leave. So there has not been much communication of what they believe or don’t believe, until the last couple of years, with anyone. But more than a decade ago some Mayans apparently did come to the US to college here and mentioned that their calendar ended on Dec 21. They had no idea what that meant or what was going to happen after that. So the Judeo-Christian apocalyptic habit of thinking in this country turned it into the end of the world. And that concept went around the world. EVERYONE around the world, as far as I can tell from my travels and living with so many of other cultures, knew that Dec 21 was ‘The Day’. But 2 years ago, the Mayan elder who is the Prophesy Keeper and Day Keeper, Don Alejandro, did start to talk about the end of the calendar, and in order to quell the fear, he did go as public as possible with the help of new age friends through internet and travels to other countries. His message was, ‘Don’t be afraid! The world is not going to end. It is the end of the current cycle of time and the beginning of a new one.’ The ending cycle started about 5000 years ago, about the time Kali Yuga started. The thing that amazes me was that he describes it in the same way and even with the same words that Maharishi describes the new age he worked towards for so many decades. Don Alejandro said the new time will be Heaven on Earth (those words were used on the internet, at least), a time of peace and harmony, where there will be no sickness or suffering. It will be a time when people will fly through the air like clouds. The world will be without boarders, and everyone will be able to travel anywhere without passports. He described it as a beautiful new time to very much look forward to. He also predicted that the day would be like any other day, like New Years eve. A new year is beginning, but it doesn’t feel immediately any different from the old year. These are prophesies that, as I understand it, have been around for 5000 years, but have been passed on from father to son, or keeper to keeper, silently. The Mayan people didn’t even really know. No one did until 2 years ago. There is no TM Movement in Guatemala, no local teachers. Raja Louis imported two Spanish Governors to teach there a number of years ago, and they have been knocking on doors, and knocking on doors for many years, and for so long found the doors all locked. Finally they found some openings, and finally they reached the Mayan elders. I have no idea how long it took for the elders to ‘get’ what the Governors were saying, but when they finally did, the response was kind of like, ‘Come in! We’re expecting you! This TM will eliminate disharmony in collective consciousness? It will create peace? Please, tell us what to do. You can teach us to fly? All the children should learn? Yes. We will start now.” Once it started, there was no stopping it. Last July, on Guru Purnima some Mayans had learned the practice (I forget, maybe a few thousand?). But there was no inkling that it was going to turn into what it is now, 6 months later, with 8,000 students practicing yogic flying every day at the same time in Mexico and Guatemala. After the demonstration on Dec 21, a contract was signed with the Minister of Education of Mexico for 69,000 students to learn the practice. It was pretty amazing how Nature organized it. The flying block for 5,000 quite spontaneously and naturally ended on Dec 20 and that was the last day of school for the winter holidays. They wanted to have a graduation ceremony, so they decided to have it at a traditional holy spot of their people. Most of the children had never been there before. So it kind of happened that all the students that money was raised for, went to Monte Alban to practice Yogic Flying together on Dec 21, 2012. It was a new beginning. Even though school is out, no one goes anywhere. From now on all the children will do their program together every day of the year whether or not school is in session,
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
My brother in law was scheduled to come in from California for a visit and to also take care of the cats (well, now just one cat). If you can believe it, his flight was cancelled outright because of weather conditions. We had to get my sister in law to take care of the duties. I guess if you wanted to parse support of nature issues: First we thought the brother in law was relieved that he wasn't coming in, since he so enjoyed taking care of Buttons, and now there wasn't the need. Then it turns out he was quite depressed, because he wanted to spend the holidays with us. (of course we needed to take care of the other cat, and we would have, but for him Buttons was a major draw) Then, my sister in law who is always wanting to do more with the family was upset that we hadn't asked her to take care of the chores, except that there are many issues along those lines. She's a little bit zany. (and has a knack of coming up with after the fact conditions) But now, she was able to feel that she played an important role in allowing us to enjoy our vacation. Is this TMI? (-: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: There is something way oversimplified in your definition of 'support of nature' for me Share. First of all, to believe there is such a thing we have to imagine ourselves somehow in the center of things, we have to be a bit egocentric. For example, for you to believe that somehow this large weather system 'waited' for you to leave FF is putting a whole lot of importance on who you are and what you do. You also have to assume that by not getting caught in the storm this was somehow a good thing. In addition, you would have to believe that 'nature' is operating primarily with you in mind (the egocentric part of the equation) but what about all the other individuals on the planet that this event (of the storm) impacted negatively? Did they somehow not garner the same support that you did and why? What did you do to earn this support of nature? Meditate? Fly? Wear the right clothing? Eat the appropriate foods? Have you considered that if you had been waylaid in your exiting FF by the snow something really astoundingly wonderful and life transformative could have happened instead and that, in fact, you escaping FF before the storm hit was actually a bad thing because of what you missed if you had been marooned there? In other words, you interpreted your having got out of FF before the storm hit as support of nature when in fact maybe it was one of the most unfortunate things that ever happened to you. Maybe if you had been trapped by the weather, never got home for Christmas, you would be enlightened by now, or met the man of your dreams or discovered the alchemical formula to make gold. Whatever the vicissitudes of life's circumstances, cause and effect in the field of karma is unfathomable or maybe Share had a lucky coin that dropped in the right slot at the right time. No need to place woo woo on a mundane event in one's life. Just be glad you're not an unlucky traveler stuck in the snow. IMO a working definition of Support of Nature is good luck. In Jyotish parlance, it's a well aspected 9th house. Robin might call it grace. Ann, those lucky days where everything seems to go flawlessly, without a hitch, where one feels, in sync, in harmony with all that is, where one's efforts are effortless, or the laws of nature rush to support you, as Maharishi would say, what would you call such days? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: Not THAT any! Had any support of Nature lately? Emily asked about support of Nature and I was thinking about it and feeling befuddled. Realized that I tend to agree with Ken Keyes idea that everything in life is either for our growth or for our enjoyment. I'd add that ideally everything is for both growth and enjoyment but with leaning at least a little in the enjoyment direction. So in this very broad sense support of Nature is always happening. Anyway, I don't think this is precisely what Maharishi means by support of Nature. What do you TMers current and ex think, especially you govs? Very especially you former TTC teachers. We know who you are! For me an example of support of Nature is that I left FF on a Wednesday and the first big snow of the season arrived the next day. But I bet you very creative FFLers can come up with way more fun examples than that (-:
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I saw a TV show last night about the Spirituali movement in 15th century Italy. In parallel to the outside Protestant movement, It was an attempt by forces *within* the Catholic Church to both spread the word that intercession isn't necessary between humans and God, and bring an end to the corruption within the institution. Michelangelo was caught in the middle of it, and some of his commissioned art reflects this. Spoiler Alert: The Spirituali lost. The status quo Cardinal provided evidence to The Inquisition, which he had revived, that the Cardinal backing the Spirituali had distributed copies of the Bible in Italian, vs. Latin, and to *non-clergy* - a serious crime. The good guy repented, fled to England, despite ongoing attempts by the Vatican to have him extradited back to Rome, for a friendly chat. So the idea that humans have a direct link to God has been absent from any western tradition, because of this. Maharishi revived this idea, and ability, in the West. I'm not sure this is quite right. Protestantism of whatever flavor (as far as I'm aware) eschews intercession (e.g., confession to and absolution by a priest). The Spirituali would have been promoting the idea that no priest was necessary to mediate between the human being and God, contra Catholic doctrine. But this is the same as Protestant doctrine, and Protestantism is certainly within the Western tradition. The kind of direct link with God that Maharishi brought to the West is much more radical, not simply a revival of the Spirituali concept, as I understand it. Otherwise, very nice post. He discovered through his own inquiry, that it is the Evening of Kali Yuga, a time when suffering increases for humanity, leading to the darkest night. He discovered that the darkness is maintained by Mother Divine to maintain the cosmic cycle of time. Rather than have the Divine Mother remove the engines of negativity from the atmosphere, he discovered that each of us is either a polluter, or purifier, of the atmosphere. Through spreading the technique which removes any intermediaries between us and the forces of life and death, he has made it possible for each of us to make that choice for ourselves, what we choose to be. Although he has spoken about the descent of Heaven On Earth, he has also spoken about such a phenomenon being a localized effect, with pockets of strife continuing across the globe. I don't know whether this was a modification of his earlier proclamations. Ultimately, though, he puts the responsibility for any of this Heaven or Hell right back on each of us. Even if tomorrow magically became a paradise, most of us wouldn't notice.:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reflections on Dec 21
more Woo-woo stuff: My wife (both parents born in Mexico), and I really wanted a child a few decades ago - it wasn't working, and we had started to attend adoption workshops. Took a vacation to Cancun and visited Tulum, a Mayan holy site on the coast. While within the walled enclosure, we found a temple dedicated to the goddess of fertility - we entered and said a prayer, and took a picture. It worked. My daughter is also part Mayan, from her maternal grandmother's side.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From the friend of a friend of a friend: Reflections on the events of Dec 12, 2012 As the Global Mother Divine director for Guatemala, I thought Iâd pass on some reflections I had from the events on December 21 this year in Monte Alban. I donât really know that much about it and certainly shouldnât be taken as an authority. Much of this is just what I have gleaned from glimpses I have gained while trying to keep in touch with it in spare moments over the last few years. The first part is meant to be fact. I hope Iâve got all the details at least mostly right. Many of you may know most of this and more. The Mayans never actually thought that Dec 21 was going to be the end of the world. In fact, until 2010 the Mayans never even talked about the ending of their calendar at all. The Mayans are, in general, quite happy and comfortable to stay to themselves. Not many are welcome into their world and very few ever leave. So there has not been much communication of what they believe or donât believe, until the last couple of years, with anyone. But more than a decade ago some Mayans apparently did come to the US to college here and mentioned that their calendar ended on Dec 21. They had no idea what that meant or what was going to happen after that. So the Judeo-Christian apocalyptic habit of thinking in this country turned it into the end of the world. And that concept went around the world. EVERYONE around the world, as far as I can tell from my travels and living with so many of other cultures, knew that Dec 21 was âThe Dayâ. But 2 years ago, the Mayan elder who is the Prophesy Keeper and Day Keeper, Don Alejandro, did start to talk about the end of the calendar, and in order to quell the fear, he did go as public as possible with the help of new age friends through internet and travels to other countries. His message was, âDonât be afraid! The world is not going to end. It is the end of the current cycle of time and the beginning of a new one.â The ending cycle started about 5000 years ago, about the time Kali Yuga started. The thing that amazes me was that he describes it in the same way and even with the same words that Maharishi describes the new age he worked towards for so many decades. Don Alejandro said the new time will be Heaven on Earth (those words were used on the internet, at least), a time of peace and harmony, where there will be no sickness or suffering. It will be a time when people will fly through the air like clouds. The world will be without boarders, and everyone will be able to travel anywhere without passports. He described it as a beautiful new time to very much look forward to. He also predicted that the day would be like any other day, like New Years eve. A new year is beginning, but it doesnât feel immediately any different from the old year. These are prophesies that, as I understand it, have been around for 5000 years, but have been passed on from father to son, or keeper to keeper, silently. The Mayan people didnât even really know. No one did until 2 years ago. There is no TM Movement in Guatemala, no local teachers. Raja Louis imported two Spanish Governors to teach there a number of years ago, and they have been knocking on doors, and knocking on doors for many years, and for so long found the doors all locked. Finally they found some openings, and finally they reached the Mayan elders. I have no idea how long it took for the elders to âgetâ what the Governors were saying, but when they finally did, the response was kind of like, âCome in! Weâre expecting you! This TM will eliminate disharmony in collective consciousness? It will create peace? Please, tell us what to do. You can teach us to fly? All the children should learn? Yes. We will start now.â Once it started, there was no stopping it. Last July, on Guru Purnima some Mayans had learned the practice (I forget, maybe a few thousand?). But there was no inkling that it was going to turn into what it is now, 6 months later, with 8,000 students practicing yogic flying every day at the same time in Mexico and Guatemala. After the demonstration on Dec 21, a contract was signed with the Minister of Education of Mexico for 69,000 students to learn the practice. It was
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reflections on Dec 21
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From the friend of a friend of a friend: Reflections on the events of Dec 12, 2012 As the Global Mother Divine director for Guatemala, I thought Iâd pass on some reflections I had from the events on December 21 this year in Monte Alban. I donât really know that much about it and certainly shouldnât be taken as an authority. Much of this is just what I have gleaned from glimpses I have gained while trying to keep in touch with it in spare moments over the last few years. The first part is meant to be fact. I hope Iâve got all the details at least mostly right. Many of you may know most of this and more. The Mayans never actually thought that Dec 21 was going to be the end of the world. In fact, until 2010 the Mayans never even talked about the ending of their calendar at all. The Mayans are, in general, quite happy and comfortable to stay to themselves. Not many are welcome into their world and very few ever leave. So there has not been much communication of what they believe or donât believe, until the last couple of years, with anyone. But more than a decade ago some Mayans apparently did come to the US to college here and mentioned that their calendar ended on Dec 21. They had no idea what that meant or what was going to happen after that. So the Judeo-Christian apocalyptic habit of thinking in this country turned it into the end of the world. And that concept went around the world. EVERYONE around the world, as far as I can tell from my travels and living with so many of other cultures, knew that Dec 21 was âThe Dayâ. But 2 years ago, the Mayan elder who is the Prophesy Keeper and Day Keeper, Don Alejandro, did start to talk about the end of the calendar, and in order to quell the fear, he did go as public as possible with the help of new age friends through internet and travels to other countries. His message was, âDonât be afraid! The world is not going to end. It is the end of the current cycle of time and the beginning of a new one.â The ending cycle started about 5000 years ago, about the time Kali Yuga started. The thing that amazes me was that he describes it in the same way and even with the same words that Maharishi describes the new age he worked towards for so many decades. Don Alejandro said the new time will be Heaven on Earth (those words were used on the internet, at least), a time of peace and harmony, where there will be no sickness or suffering. It will be a time when people will fly through the air like clouds. The world will be without boarders, and everyone will be able to travel anywhere without passports. He described it as a beautiful new time to very much look forward to. He also predicted that the day would be like any other day, like New Years eve. A new year is beginning, but it doesnât feel immediately any different from the old year. These are prophesies that, as I understand it, have been around for 5000 years, but have been passed on from father to son, or keeper to keeper, silently. The Mayan people didnât even really know. No one did until 2 years ago. There is no TM Movement in Guatemala, no local teachers. Raja Louis imported two Spanish Governors to teach there a number of years ago, and they have been knocking on doors, and knocking on doors for many years, and for so long found the doors all locked. Finally they found some openings, and finally they reached the Mayan elders. I have no idea how long it took for the elders to âgetâ what the Governors were saying, but when they finally did, the response was kind of like, âCome in! Weâre expecting you! This TM will eliminate disharmony in collective consciousness? It will create peace? Please, tell us what to do. You can teach us to fly? All the children should learn? Yes. We will start now.â Once it started, there was no stopping it. Last July, on Guru Purnima some Mayans had learned the practice (I forget, maybe a few thousand?). But there was no inkling that it was going to turn into what it is now, 6 months later, with 8,000 students practicing yogic flying every day at the same time in Mexico and Guatemala. After the demonstration on Dec 21, a contract was signed with the Minister of Education of Mexico for 69,000 students to learn the practice. It was pretty amazing how Nature organized it. The flying block for 5,000 quite spontaneously and naturally ended on Dec 20 and that was the last day of school for the winter holidays. They wanted to have a graduation ceremony, so they decided to have it at a traditional holy spot of their people. Most of the children had never been there before. So it kind of happened that all the students that money was raised for, went to Monte Alban to practice Yogic Flying together on Dec
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
Yes, Protestantism looks good on paper. :-) Due to lack of a persistent technique, though, the Protestants have twisted the possibility of direct communication [with God] into a weak collection of symbols and interpretation, and ministers. So even though the intent is there, the Protestant religions also lost their way early on, maintaining more an intellectual argument with the Catholic view, than finding a true path, based on direct experience. The Spirituali dudes and dudettes were around so long ago, and although many of original documents have amazingly been preserved, there really was no mention of any techniques they may have practiced. Nonetheless, Maharishi's view of things *was* radical, however I didn't want to get into that, as I am trying to eat this elephant [Tamas], just one spoonful at a time.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I saw a TV show last night about the Spirituali movement in 15th century Italy. In parallel to the outside Protestant movement, It was an attempt by forces *within* the Catholic Church to both spread the word that intercession isn't necessary between humans and God, and bring an end to the corruption within the institution. Michelangelo was caught in the middle of it, and some of his commissioned art reflects this. Spoiler Alert: The Spirituali lost. The status quo Cardinal provided evidence to The Inquisition, which he had revived, that the Cardinal backing the Spirituali had distributed copies of the Bible in Italian, vs. Latin, and to *non-clergy* - a serious crime. The good guy repented, fled to England, despite ongoing attempts by the Vatican to have him extradited back to Rome, for a friendly chat. So the idea that humans have a direct link to God has been absent from any western tradition, because of this. Maharishi revived this idea, and ability, in the West. I'm not sure this is quite right. Protestantism of whatever flavor (as far as I'm aware) eschews intercession (e.g., confession to and absolution by a priest). The Spirituali would have been promoting the idea that no priest was necessary to mediate between the human being and God, contra Catholic doctrine. But this is the same as Protestant doctrine, and Protestantism is certainly within the Western tradition. The kind of direct link with God that Maharishi brought to the West is much more radical, not simply a revival of the Spirituali concept, as I understand it. Otherwise, very nice post. He discovered through his own inquiry, that it is the Evening of Kali Yuga, a time when suffering increases for humanity, leading to the darkest night. He discovered that the darkness is maintained by Mother Divine to maintain the cosmic cycle of time. Rather than have the Divine Mother remove the engines of negativity from the atmosphere, he discovered that each of us is either a polluter, or purifier, of the atmosphere. Through spreading the technique which removes any intermediaries between us and the forces of life and death, he has made it possible for each of us to make that choice for ourselves, what we choose to be. Although he has spoken about the descent of Heaven On Earth, he has also spoken about such a phenomenon being a localized effect, with pockets of strife continuing across the globe. I don't know whether this was a modification of his earlier proclamations. Ultimately, though, he puts the responsibility for any of this Heaven or Hell right back on each of us. Even if tomorrow magically became a paradise, most of us wouldn't notice.:-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL)
Beautiful dog and great video. Mine has a rough coat like this, but she is actually a Parson Terrier - longer legs and a more elongated snout - which makes her very, very cute. I've seen a lot of jrt's on my walks, but they are all short legged, short hairs. Haven't seen any that look like her. She is learning to play with other dogs and will now fetch a ball out of Lake WA if she doesn't have to swim. The other day, I threw it too far and had to take off my boots and socks, roll up my pants and go after it myself, in the freezing cold and rain. People thought I was crazy, of course. Ha. Of course, I think she's the most beautiful, although a bit neurotic. I plan to get her more training and no, Dubai will have to wait. although there is a direct flight from Seattle. From: raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 9:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: OMG...look what we have to suffer through.  This is so soporific.  Barry, please move Bob, at the very least, or Robin (whoever the hell this post is from - you can figure it out, smart fellow that you are) to the category with Ravi and I (and that weird guy Willy).  Buck should remain in a category by himself.  Now, for you Barry, because I love you too, is a cute JRT story. We bought the little dog a couple of presents...a squirrel and a small squeaky football.  My older daughter, unbeknownst to me, wrapped them and hid them under the tree.  I was up late, as usual, wrapping presents on Christmas Eve and again Christmas morning.  When I was out of the room on Christmas morn, little dog, sneaky dog that she is, politely rummaged through the presents.  I walked in to see her sitting on the couch (on her towel) with her squirrel in front of her and the wrapping paper off to the side, looking expectantly up at me.  The ball was nearby, half-unwrapped.  Can you believe that she only pulled her own presents out?  What a smart dog, what a polite dog, what a festive dog.  If my kids hadn't absconded with my camera charger, or if I had a smart phone, I would have taken a picture and posted it for you.  I think I should train this one for movies.  She should earn her keep and save me from my fate in the workforce.  Forget about Dubai. Jack Russell Terriers have star power. http://youtu.be/YpUGcCiKJdA Although, turns out a cousin of my ex's worked in Dubai the last two years and if I didn't have a teenager and a little dog, I would put forth great effort to work there.  Very multicultural.  The police drive Mercedes Benz's.  He loved it...he made lots of moneyhe said he'd hook me up.  He made 3.5 times what he would have made here in the U.S. Options, man, options.  From: Bob Price bobpriced@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 1:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leohcvmf8kM Barry, Please ignore these ungrateful wretches, I'm not like them; I know how much love and effort you've put into our edification this past year, and I love you for it; I know how much you've sacrificed to make us better human beings, and I'm ashamed how ungrateful they are. I know how many other things you could be doing with your time; watching TV, walking the dogs, writing manuals, and visiting Beavis and Butthead; not to mention spending more quality time with Maya and your modern family. I know what its like to give till you have no more to give and the ingrates you're trying to help just don't get it (makes you wonder about this whole bodhisattva thing); they don't understand how hard it is to be as beautiful as you are, to be as good a person as you are; I know you know this, you show it to me everyday, and I would never have figured it out without your help. You see Barry, I really have fallen in love with you, not that platonic love I used to feel for Curtis, no, not that tepid tea, the real stuff, with all its messiness. And I don't know what I'd do if you gave up on us and stayed with Beavis and Butthead; frankly (please don't think this sounds like stalking), if you left I would have to move to Holland, and do whatever was in my power to find you, and serve you in any small way I could; and if you went all Roshi on me, and hit me with a stick or called the police, I would know it was just a test and your way of teaching me the real meaning of love. I know I have a lot to learn from you, but from what I feel today, on the day after Boxing Day 2012, I know I've made an incredible start, and
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reflections on Dec 21
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From the friend of a friend of a friend: Reflections on the events of Dec 12, 2012 The thing that amazes me was that he describes it in the same way and even with the same words that Maharishi describes the new age he worked towards for so many decades. Don Alejandro said the new time will be Heaven on Earth (those words were used on the internet, at least), a time of peace and harmony, where there will be no sickness or suffering. It will be a time when people will fly through the air like clouds. The world will be without boarders, and everyone will be able to travel anywhere without passports. He described it as a beautiful new time to very much look forward to. This is as good an answer to the question of seekliberation as any :-)
[FairfieldLife] Landfill Harmonic
Call me crazy, but I find this news from Paraguay far more inspiring and uplifting than any of the news of the supposed TM Mayan event. The latter requires you to believe that some or *any* of the Woo Woo surround- ing the prophecies actually had some truth or meaning to it. The former (this project, the documentary about it, and the concept itself) requires only that we believe in the ability of the human spirit to find beauty in anything. http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2012/12/28/landfill_harmonic_recycled_orchestra_movie_trailer_tells_incredible_story.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL)
H.examples of the Desiderata creed? I am posting that on my refrigerator :) From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 2:21 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL) Bob, dear, It's been done: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/300960 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/301020 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/301104 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/301143 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@... wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leohcvmf8kM Barry, Please ignore these ungrateful wretches, I'm not like them; I know how much love and effort you've put into our edification this past year, and I love you for it; I know how much you've sacrificed to make us better human beings, and I'm ashamed how ungrateful they are. I know how many other things you could be doing with your time; watching TV, walking the dogs, writing manuals, and visiting Beavis and Butthead; not to mention spending more quality time with Maya and your modern family. I know what its like to give till you have no more to give and the ingrates you're trying to help just don't get it (makes you wonder about this whole bodhisattva thing); they don't understand how hard it is to be as beautiful as you are, to be as good a person as you are; I know you know this, you show it to me everyday, and I would never have figured it out without your help. You see Barry, I really have fallen in love with you, not that platonic love I used to feel for Curtis, no, not that tepid tea, the real stuff, with all its messiness. And I don't know what I'd do if you gave up on us and stayed with Beavis and Butthead; frankly (please don't think this sounds like stalking), if you left I would have to move to Holland, and do whatever was in my power to find you, and serve you in any small way I could; and if you went all Roshi on me, and hit me with a stick or called the police, I would know it was just a test and your way of teaching me the real meaning of love. I know I have a lot to learn from you, but from what I feel today, on the day after Boxing Day 2012, I know I've made an incredible start, and I could not have done it without you. If only the others could see and understand what I've found on this mountain of my love for you; I know what they say about you is not true, your post was not Barry's Christmas enemies list; I know it's a Christmas *love and affection* list, like a wallop from the great cane of the Roshi of Ryoan-ji; producing welts of love and affection as deep as the resting place of the Titanic. Please stay Barry; Beavis and Butthead don't deserve you as much as we do; please give us another chance, and please ignore what they say about your message view; that it's shaped like the derriere of that fine young lady who begged you to message her behind; I know its not true that she was a lap dancer and you've likely been banned from the Yum Yum for stiffing (sorry, I know you could never stiff anybody) the dancers for their gratuities. I don't think what they say about you is true; that you have no life beyond your manuals, pirated TV, and FFL (I also don't believe its true that Maya is an imaginary friend, and her name is one of your more inspired unintended ironies---I know Maya exists!). I also don't believe them when they cruelly say you are a compulsive name dropper who never met one of Tim Leary's ex-wives. I'm sure the angels shed a tear every time that Judy woman hurts your feelings; she's a piece of work and I for one want nothing else to do with her; I love you Barry. Please ignore Obba; she's doesn't know how to speak to a real man like you. And please ignore Emily; she doesn't deserve the hand of loving kindness you've extended to her (the fact she would give some old Jack Russell a home says everything you need to know about her). And Ann, what can I say about her, she's obviously one of these women that has far too much education for her own good, and lives by that old maxim the more I know about Barry, the more I love my horses. I just can't believe how cruel these women are to you, with everything you've done for them; I'm hoping that the tiny point of light that I am can somehow make up for them, and convince you to stay; I think its cruel for them to say that when you go through this vale of tears FFL will pass before your eyes; I have no doubt there is a special place in the after life for you, and these women are all going to hell if they don't straighten up and begin to understand what you're trying to do for them. I only have one favor to ask, I know it's a lot to ask with the way
[FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL)
P.S. Just kidding there - I understood your post authfriend. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: H.examples of the Desiderata creed? Â I am posting that on my refrigerator :) From: authfriend authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 2:21 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL) Â Bob, dear, It's been done: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/300960 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/301020 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/301104 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/301143 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@ wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leohcvmf8kM Barry, Please ignore these ungrateful wretches, I'm not like them; I know how much love and effort you've put into our edification this past year, and I love you for it; I know how much you've sacrificed to make us better human beings, and I'm ashamed how ungrateful they are. I know how many other things you could be doing with your time; watching TV, walking the dogs, writing manuals, and visiting Beavis and Butthead; not to mention spending more quality time with Maya and your modern family.ÃÂ I know what its like to give till you have no more to give and the ingrates you're trying to help just don't get it (makes you wonder about this whole bodhisattva thing); they don't understand how hard it is to be as beautiful as you are, to be as good a person as you are; I know you know this, you show it to me everyday, and I would never have figured it out without your help. You see Barry, I really have fallen in love with you, not that platonic love I used to feel for Curtis, no, not that tepid tea, the real stuff, with all its messiness. And I don't know what I'd do if you gave up on us and stayed with Beavis and Butthead; frankly (please don't think this sounds like stalking), if you left I would have to move to Holland, and do whatever was in my power to find you, and serve you in any small way I could; and if you went all Roshi on me, and hit me with a stick or called the police, I would know it was just a test and your way of teaching me the real meaning of love. I know I have a lot to learn from you, but from what I feel today, on the day after Boxing Day 2012, I know I've made an incredible start, and I could not have done it without you.ÃÂ If only the others could see and understand what I've found on this mountain of my love for you; I know what they say about you is not true, your post was not Barry's Christmas enemies list; I know it's a Christmas *love and affection* list, like a wallop from the great cane of the Roshi of Ryoan-ji; producing welts of love and affection as deep as the resting place of the Titanic.ÃÂ Please stay Barry; Beavis and Butthead don't deserve you as much as we do; please give us another chance, and please ignore what they say about your message view; that it's shaped like the derriere of that fine young lady who begged you to message her behind; I know its not true that she was a lap dancer and you've likely been banned from the Yum Yum for stiffing (sorry, I know you could never stiff anybody) the dancers for their gratuities. I don't think what they say about you is true; that you have no life beyond your manuals, pirated TV, and FFL (I also don't believe its true that Maya is an imaginary friend, and her name is one of your more inspired unintended ironies---I know Maya exists!).ÃÂ I also don't believe them when they cruelly say you are a compulsive name dropper who never met one of Tim Leary's ex-wives. I'm sure the angels shed a tear every time that Judy woman hurts your feelings; she's a piece of work and I for one want nothing else to do with her; I love you Barry.ÃÂ Please ignore Obba; she's doesn't know how to speak to a real man like you.ÃÂ And please ignore Emily; she doesn't deserve the hand of loving kindness you've extended to her (the fact she would give some old Jack Russell a home says everything you need to know about her).ÃÂ And Ann, what can I say about her, she's obviously one of these women that has far too much education for her own good, and lives by that old maxim the more I know about Barry, the more I love my horses. I just can't believe how cruel these women are to you, with everything you've done for them; I'm hoping that the tiny point of light that I am can somehow make up for them, and convince you to stay; I think its cruel for them to say that when you go through this vale of tears FFL
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
With his energy being what it is it is hard even for me to have hard feelings towards him when I watch a video - beautiful words he expresses, but he really doesn't say much - just in essence that heaven on earth is possible and if we do TM it will happen... turquoiseb: Duh. This is Cult Marketing 101. If you promise it but never define what 'it' is, no one can sue you when you don't deliver. If this is true, then there must be thousands of people that want to sue you in court for promising them 'enlightenment in 5-7 years' when you worked for MMY and for promoting the idea of 'instant enlightenment when you worked for Rama. When are you going to start paying for all your fibbing? LoL! I mean, it's one thing to be a liar, but do you have to be a hypocrite as well? Go figure. Well, isn't this embarrassing - I'm explaining the HOE doctrine to a TM Teacher. Go figure. If you don't understand MMY's phrase 'Heaven on Earth', which comes from the Upanishads, then you've apparently wasted many years following MMY and the Rama Guy. Either that, or now you're enlightened and want to tell us the whole truth. All the Upanshadic thinkers were transcendentalists who taught that there is a field beyond the senses which they termed a transcendental field. All of the acharyas of Vedanta point to this state of being. O Svetaketu, do you understand what I am telling you? This great but most essence of all the worlds is the Truth, the Atman, the Supreme Reality within you, and you are THAT - Uddalaka - Chhandogya U. According to the Sage Patanjali, Raja Yoga has nothing to do with 'union with the gods', but has everything to do with 'isolation from prakriti', that is, the 'cessation of the fluctuations of the mind-stuff'. To Patanjali, the 'Royal Yoga' is the attainment of freedom, based on the sheer willpower of the individual. The Sage Kapila said that success in attaing freedom from suffering is found in individual willpower to knowledge; individual freedom is not the result of any source of power outside one's own body-mind. When mental activity disappears, then knower, knowing and known become merged one into another, just like a transparent crystal which assumes the appearance of that upon which it rests. Y.S. I. 41. So, ask yourself 'who am I' and then look inside yourself for the answer, inside your own mind, and apply common sense and intelligence based on your own experience and reasoning. At present youare not making any sense! A Yogin is not bound by time, neither is he bound by the restrictions of caste or religious conventions. A Yogin, having mastered himself, by himself, does not see ritual acts as the saving grace, yet he acts, due to the propensities still functioning within his mortal coil. A Yogin is liberated while yet living, a 'jivan mukti'. Being liberated, a Yogin is not bound by the notion of duality, thinking, I do this, this is my body, this is my soul, this is my self... etc.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie... Susan: Here is the way out of this problem! Stop taking it literally. Heaven on Earth is a description of an internal situation... To Patanjali, the 'Royal Yoga' is the attainment of freedom, based on the sheer willpower of the individual it's not based on having faith in the Gods. The Sage Kapila said that success in attaining freedom from suffering is found in individual willpower to knowledge; individual freedom is not the result of any source of power outside one's own body-mind. When mental activity disappears, then knower, knowing and known become merged one into another, just like a transparent crystal which assumes the appearance of that upon which it rests. Y.S. I. 41. So, just ask yourself 'Who Am I' and then look inside yourself for the answer, inside your own mind, and apply common sense and intelligence based on your own experience and reasoning.
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: I have had some experiences where what I was thinking or expecting actually happened in a woo woo ish way. And times when it felt scarily as if I could control situations with my quiet thoughts (not mentally ill). But what I think was going on was that my own thoughts had aligned with what was to be, with Nature. It was not that Nature aligned with my intentions and wishes. The experience was that the only thoughts that arose were those that on some very quiet level were really just a reflection of the flow of events already set in motion. I had tuned in to That. I can appreciate your careful phrasing here, Susan, and the thought you've given to this. I identify more with the idea of supporting nature (both in small case letters) than I do the support of Nature. I do not conceive of (and have never conceived of) Nature as a sentient entity, capable of having its own intent or plan for anything, or even deserving the capital letter. Thus I don't easily think of nature controlling anything in any way, or having the ability to do so, or even having the consciousness to do so. nature just is. It is literally What Is, whatever is. What I can identify with is feeling from time to time in tune with What Is, with nature just doing its thing. But even as a TB TMer I never believed in Support of Nature, as Maharishi used the phrase. If I felt myself in the flow, and that things seemed to be going more smoothly today than other days, in my view (both then and now), nature had nothing to do with that. Yes, I felt uncomfortable with that phrase too - most likely because I saw how the whole idea was being misused - at least in my opinion. I grouped it the whole mood making thing. And I do think it is agood thing to feel and act as if were are responsible for our actions. If anything, I had just succeeded in quieting my mind to the point where it didn't throw up any internal roadblocks to things going smoothly, and as a result it seemed that things *were* going more smoothly. In reality, as I saw it then and now, *I* was going more smoothly. Nature hadn't done a damned thing, and wasn't paying any attention. It couldn't; it didn't *have the ability* to pay attention, not being sentient and all. Exactly my thoughts and experience. I always managed to get by in the TMO while carrying around this somewhat heretical belief. :-) I carefully avoided giving any advanced lectures that ever mentioned the concept of support of nature as Maharishi gave voice to it, and was spared anyone ever asking a question about it, because if they had I would have told them what MMY had said on the subject, but then would have had to explain that I disagreed with it completely. It kind of felt as if I was moving things, but I seriously doubt it, since there were not many thoughts and they did not have the usual feel that I was controlling them. The thoughts just were there. Did you notice how effortlessly they came? Something good is happening. :-) Hey - You mean, that's how I should think the mantra? I think when most fo the time things happen that we feel are good luck or suport of Nature, it is just a nice intersection of events that would happen anyway coinciding with our own patterns. That sounds like a great way to think of things, but I'm not even convinced of the that would happen anyway part of it. I don't believe that anything is supposed to happen or inevitably will happen. I think that the universe is eternally in flux, with no fixed plan or future, and that the direction or outcome or future path of this constant flow-flux can be changed at any moment. Maybe not supposed to happen in a preplanned sort of way, but just inevitable given the prior events and everything is based on prior events. I do know your point of view about flux.. And, well, there is slight flavor of the free will issue entering into this part of the discussion, and we have been down that road. I honestly don't have any answer to it, just a different emphasis than you do. I have in the past felt things had an inevitable flow given the first or primary events i guess you could call it. One thing responds to the prior event and so on and on and on. I just don't know how much flexibility there is in that eternal sequence of unfolding responses. If there is not flexibility, then free will as a real element is out the door, despite what it feels like. If there is interactivity and options along that path of unfolding, then there still might not be free will for humans (but maybe) but maybe loads of optional outcomes. I know some physicists think that is what happens, every option occurs and we have oodles of universes happening. We *DO* influence the
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
But the caste system is a beautiful thing. If you're at the top cardemaister: Just occurred to me, is it true, that in the Rgveda, the word 'varNa' (color; caste) primarily referred to skin color? The term 'caste' is, I think, from the Portugeuse word for color, 'casta', but 'varna' in Sanskrit means occupation status. The fourfold order was created by Me? (Gita 4:13) Oh, really! Lets figure that one out: So, the Lord Vasudeva in the Bhagavad Gita apparently invented the 'caste-system', varnashramadharma, consisting of the four castes and the four stages of life. Krishna, in the Gita, tells Arjuna that it is better to do your caste duty well, rather than do poorly the caste duties of another. That would explain a lot, I guess! Then, along came Buddha who blasted to bits the whole social order! Like the Northern (originally even arctic??) Aryans as opposed to the indigenous (black, kRSNa) people of India? Caste: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste A caste, or occupation, association with a profession, or varna, can change with the chosen professions of its members. Caste based respect is where each occupational class community (social group) governs itself and respects the multicultural heritage of other castes without proselytising, interfering or imposing their values on other communities.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Landfill Harmonic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Call me crazy, but I find this news from Paraguay far more inspiring and uplifting than any of the news of the supposed TM Mayan event. The latter requires you to believe that some or *any* of the Woo Woo surround- ing the prophecies actually had some truth or meaning to it. The former (this project, the documentary about it, and the concept itself) requires only that we believe in the ability of the human spirit to find beauty in anything. http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2012/12/28/landfill_harmonic_recycled_orchestra_movie_trailer_tells_incredible_story.html LOVED THIS UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY.
[FairfieldLife] UFO refuelling near the sun
And I'm sure we all remember this, the UFO that was labelled by many as `the refuelling UFO' that caught the attention of millions of us from around the globe on two separate occasions. The pure clarity of the video and the fact that it appeared twice, puts it in pole position on my list. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ7RaOMHb5Ifeature=player_embedded#! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgs4QUNzZfIfeature=player_embedded
[FairfieldLife] Nature support is when Santa brings you this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_4xHIqU4t8
[FairfieldLife] Support of Nature is when Santa brings you this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_4xHIqU4t8
[FairfieldLife] Support of Nature is when Santa brings you these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_4xHIqU4t8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysQl7SUEo4s
[FairfieldLife] Theater Tweet Seats?
Who would have ever guessed what the computer revolution would bring and microsizing them to mobile phones? One Minneapolis theater has sectioned off an area of their theater for those who are socially obsessed and chose to tweet through a film. Like the article headlines as sure sign the apocalypse has arrived. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57561119-71/theater-tweet-seats-a-highway-to-hell/ I don't know about you but at theater ticket prices these days I want my money's worth out of the big screen instead of staring at a small one.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: With his energy being what it is it is hard even for me to have hard feelings towards him when I watch a video - beautiful words he expresses, but he really doesn't say much - just in essence that heaven on earth is possible and if we do TM it will happen... turquoiseb: Duh. This is Cult Marketing 101. If you promise it but never define what 'it' is, no one can sue you when you don't deliver. If this is true, then there must be thousands of people that want to sue you in court for promising them 'enlightenment in 5-7 years' when you worked for MMY and for promoting the idea of 'instant enlightenment when you worked for Rama. When are you going to start paying for all your fibbing? LoL! I mean, it's one thing to be a liar, but do you have to be a hypocrite as well? Go figure. Well, isn't this embarrassing - I'm explaining the HOE doctrine to a TM Teacher. Go figure. If you don't understand MMY's phrase 'Heaven on Earth', which comes from the Upanishads, then you've apparently wasted many years following MMY and the Rama Guy. We know this already. The Turq was too busy chatting up girls in the Movement and with the Rama-fellow to digest anything they said :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: P.S. Just kidding there - I understood your post authfriend. #11 pages snipped# Emily; to write 1 sentence you just posted 11 pages of old stuff. Some people are reading this off the web and it's rather a nuicance to be reminded that grown-ups didn't learn to SNIP.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Theater Tweet Seats?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Who would have ever guessed what the computer revolution would bring and microsizing them to mobile phones? One Minneapolis theater has sectioned off an area of their theater for those who are socially obsessed and chose to tweet through a film. Like the article headlines a sure sign the apocalypse has arrived. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57561119-71/theater-tweet-seats-a-highway-to-hell/ I don't know about you but at theater ticket prices these days I want my money's worth out of the big screen instead of staring at a small one. I saw this article, and thought of posting it myself, but then thought, Nh...people would think it was too cynical on my part, and didn't. But it's an inter- esting tell as to the sensibilities of our time -- that perceived need to always be in touch (even if only electronically) with those we feel a kinship with, and to compulsively share with them the things we find interesting in our lives. I cannot help but think that if more people spent more time actually looking at the world around them and less time looking at those tiny screens, they'd find so much of life interesting that they'd no longer feel the need to share. It is, after all, what it is. Who needs to be reminded of that?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
Then all of us who believed the TMO need to be sued - I was certainly a proselytizer for TM in my day - it didn't make any of us hypocrites when we believed the hype - it made us True Believers From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: With his energy being what it is it is hard even for me to have hard feelings towards him when I watch a video - beautiful words he expresses, but he really doesn't say much - just in essence that heaven on earth is possible and if we do TM it will happen... turquoiseb: Duh. This is Cult Marketing 101. If you promise it but never define what 'it' is, no one can sue you when you don't deliver. If this is true, then there must be thousands of people that want to sue you in court for promising them 'enlightenment in 5-7 years' when you worked for MMY and for promoting the idea of 'instant enlightenment when you worked for Rama. When are you going to start paying for all your fibbing? LoL! I mean, it's one thing to be a liar, but do you have to be a hypocrite as well? Go figure. Well, isn't this embarrassing - I'm explaining the HOE doctrine to a TM Teacher. Go figure. If you don't understand MMY's phrase 'Heaven on Earth', which comes from the Upanishads, then you've apparently wasted many years following MMY and the Rama Guy. We know this already. The Turq was too busy chatting up girls in the Movement and with the Rama-fellow to digest anything they said :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
There is something way oversimplified in your definition of 'support of nature'.. raunchydog: Whatever the vicissitudes of life's circumstances, cause and effect in the field of karma is unfathomable... Having the 'support of nature' is karma, a Buddhist concept, along with samsara and moksha, from the shramana tradition, of which Buddhism and Jainism are continuations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma According to Buddhist teaching, 'karma' has nothing to do with a persons future rebirths. Karma is just the law of cause and effect and everything is subject to this law, from a highly evolved person down to a single blade of grass - there are no exceptions. If there were any kinds of left-over karmic actions in future births these would have to be controlled by the Ishvara, the inner controller. But, Buddhism has no such controller - so karma is just Causation, the central philosophy of Buddhism. In order for a person to reap the result of his or her actions in the past, there would have to be a reincarnating soul-monad. But the historical Buddha did not ascribe to this idea. According to Shakya the Muni, a person gets the karma of their actions in this life - there is rebirth, but not a rebirth of a soul-monad. So, there would be no individual to reap the effects of past karma. It would be non-logical to believe otherwise, in which case a good man might get the results of a bad man's karma, or vice-versa. You are only going to get as much support from nature as you are going to get.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Hold your breath till HOE sets in. Why ? I'm experiencing telepathy on a daily basis. I just sent you a mental message, what did I think? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 9:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation It's difficult to explain HOE because it makes a great toll on the imagination on those involved. For example, during the full AE communication as we know it with spoken words will be obsolute because the ability to communicate directly and over any distance instantaneously will be fully developed in every man. Many here probably have had this experience already, but with time this will be the norm. Now, how can you imagine that ? You can't, unless you've already experienced this naural phenomena. The Age of Enlightenment will grow as old tendencies die away and new takes their place. There is no need for the TMO to spend time trying to describe something in detail which will take place in a natural way anyway. When asked what music will be like in the Age of Enlightenment Maharishi said More simple, more profound. That is not something one can describe in detail, it has to be experienced. Life is going to be very enjoyable -Maharishi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5C8DxeVScw
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
I think Susan, Post #330889 has the right idea. The world is just going to be the way it is. How we experience that determines whether our life is heaven or hell.
[FairfieldLife] Re: UFO refuelling near the sun
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: And I'm sure we all remember this, the UFO that was labelled by many as `the refuelling UFO' that caught the attention of millions of us from around the globe on two separate occasions. The pure clarity of the video and the fact that it appeared twice, puts it in pole position on my list. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ7RaOMHb5Ifeature=player_embedded#! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgs4QUNzZfIfeature=player_embedded Never mind the deluded voice over about non-existent UFOs, isn't it beautiful? Did you know the sun burns off four million tons of its own weight every second? It's been doing that for five billion years and will go on for another five billion before it runs out of fuel and expands to destroy the earth before collapsing in on itself to become a red dwarf. The atoms of the earth and all life on it including every cell in your body were made in the explosions of dying stars. Everything was once hydrogen and now some of those alchemised proto-atoms are sitting around wondering about where they came from and where they are going. It's all rather far out when you think about it. Sorry, came over all astral for a second there.
[FairfieldLife] Re: UFO refuelling near the sun
When I lightened the image in those videos, it did not seem to be a sphere, or anything unusual. Also you might read about coronal prominence cavities: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/coronal-cavities.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: And I'm sure we all remember this, the UFO that was labelled by many as `the refuelling UFO' that caught the attention of millions of us from around the globe on two separate occasions. The pure clarity of the video and the fact that it appeared twice, puts it in pole position on my list. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ7RaOMHb5Ifeature=player_embedded#! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgs4QUNzZfIfeature=player_embedded
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
mjackson74: Then all of us who believed the TMO need to be sued - I was certainly a proselytizer for TM in my day - it didn't make any of us hypocrites when we believed the hype - it made us True Believers... It makes a lot of difference if you were a 'True Believer' proselytizer just a few years ago, and then you became an opponent and started criticizing others for believing what you once taught. What - you just changed your mind? Get a grip - you promised enlightenment in 5-7 years! So, how exactly did you get enlightened and find out the truth, and all the others still believe? Subject: Barry Wright's eulogy Freddie Lenz Author: Andrew A. Skolnick Forum: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: October 25, 1998 http://tinyurl.com/c3sqnmh With his energy being what it is it is hard even for me to have hard feelings towards him when I watch a video - beautiful words he expresses, but he really doesn't say much - just in essence that heaven on earth is possible and if we do TM it will happen... turquoiseb: Duh. This is Cult Marketing 101. If you promise it but never define what 'it' is, no one can sue you when you don't deliver. If this is true, then there must be thousands of people that want to sue you in court for promising them 'enlightenment in 5-7 years' when you worked for MMY and for promoting the idea of 'instant enlightenment when you worked for Rama. When are you going to start paying for all your fibbing? LoL! I mean, it's one thing to be a liar, but do you have to be a hypocrite as well? Go figure. Well, isn't this embarrassing - I'm explaining the HOE doctrine to a TM Teacher. Go figure. If you don't understand MMY's phrase 'Heaven on Earth', which comes from the Upanishads, then you've apparently wasted many years following MMY and the Rama Guy. We know this already. The Turq was too busy chatting up girls in the Movement and with the Rama-fellow to digest anything they said :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Theater Tweet Seats?
On 12/28/2012 10:55 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Who would have ever guessed what the computer revolution would bring and microsizing them to mobile phones? One Minneapolis theater has sectioned off an area of their theater for those who are socially obsessed and chose to tweet through a film. Like the article headlines a sure sign the apocalypse has arrived. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57561119-71/theater-tweet-seats-a-highway-to-hell/ I don't know about you but at theater ticket prices these days I want my money's worth out of the big screen instead of staring at a small one. I saw this article, and thought of posting it myself, but then thought, Nh...people would think it was too cynical on my part, and didn't. But it's an inter- esting tell as to the sensibilities of our time -- that perceived need to always be in touch (even if only electronically) with those we feel a kinship with, and to compulsively share with them the things we find interesting in our lives. I cannot help but think that if more people spent more time actually looking at the world around them and less time looking at those tiny screens, they'd find so much of life interesting that they'd no longer feel the need to share. It is, after all, what it is. Who needs to be reminded of that? I lead the comments section and all the ones following agreed with people being too obsessive about the technology. I don't think it is too cynical at all to be against such obsessive behavior but has cynicism ever stopped me from posting something? :-D I would think TM would be a cure for obsessive compulsive behavior but instead it may increase it. Is that what is claimed by increased spontaneity? I get amused and somewhat pissed at some of the messages I get back from the few social networking services I do subscribe too. They are apparently written by naive and stupid twenty somethings who would probably give pause saying such a thing in person to an older gentlemen. Those canned messages sound like 1st grade school teacher telling children what to do.
[FairfieldLife] Re: UFO refuelling near the sun
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: When I lightened the image in those videos, it did not seem to be a sphere, or anything unusual. Yes, but did you see the first video ? Something is going from the thingy into the sun. Apparently this has never been seen before. Also you might read about coronal prominence cavities: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/coronal-cavities.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: And I'm sure we all remember this, the UFO that was labelled by many as `the refuelling UFO' that caught the attention of millions of us from around the globe on two separate occasions. The pure clarity of the video and the fact that it appeared twice, puts it in pole position on my list. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ7RaOMHb5Ifeature=player_embedded#! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgs4QUNzZfIfeature=player_embedded
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
When my friend and I took off for Las Vegas/Utah this September - we did only one thing. We booked our flights and hotel reservations on either end and we brought our camping gear. We saidWell, we'll just play it by ear., because really, we were just too overwhelmed to do much else. So, we ended up just following the next indicated step. We planned our route in the hotel room with maps on the floor but with no guarantee of where we would stay. And, our conclusion was, that throughout our whole trip, the Universe supported us. Which it did. For example, we got the last campground in 3 different spots and the last hotel room in one. One good thing after another...one weird, good thing after another. We were so lucky in so many ways. So, we came back with a trust in the Universeis that the support of Nature? I would say that we threw everything up to the wind, and were as flexible as necessary, and we received more than we could have hoped for. Did we align with the Universe? I don't think the Universe aligned for us, but we trusted that all would be well, and it was. Of late, I have been having a number of weird coincidences happen; little things, big things..maybe life is like that and I'm just starting to notice. It makes me feel a part of instead of always feeling like I'm on the outside looking in. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha I can't give you any concrete examples of support of nature because...uh...it doesn't exist. What I can give you is a definition that might help you to better under- stand what's going on: Support of nature is what mood-making TMers call coincidence. Something ordinary happens, and because they want to feel important and as if something they think of as 'Nature' is rearranging things just to suit them, they project something onto the ordinary event to make it seem like *more* than coincidence. It isn't. There. Happy to have been of service. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Not THAT any! Had any support of Nature lately? Emily asked about support of Nature and I was thinking about it and feeling befuddled. Realized that I tend to agree with Ken Keyes idea that everything in life is either for our growth or for our enjoyment. I'd add that ideally everything is for both growth and enjoyment but with leaning at least a little in the enjoyment direction. So in this very broad sense support of Nature is always happening. Anyway, I don't think this is precisely what Maharishi means by support of Nature. What do you TMers current and ex think, especially you govs? Very especially you former TTC teachers. We know who you are! For me an example of support of Nature is that I left FF on a Wednesday and the first big snow of the season arrived the next day. But I bet you very creative FFLers can come up with way more fun examples than that (-:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Landfill Harmonic
My life would be worthless without music. From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 9:55 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Landfill Harmonic --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Call me crazy, but I find this news from Paraguay far more inspiring and uplifting than any of the news of the supposed TM Mayan event. The latter requires you to believe that some or *any* of the Woo Woo surround- ing the prophecies actually had some truth or meaning to it. The former (this project, the documentary about it, and the concept itself) requires only that we believe in the ability of the human spirit to find beauty in anything. http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2012/12/28/landfill_harmonic_recycled_orchestra_movie_trailer_tells_incredible_story.html LOVED THIS UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY.
[FairfieldLife] Re: UFO refuelling near the sun
Did you know the sun burns off four million tons of its own weight every second? Must drive Richard Simmons crazy. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: And I'm sure we all remember this, the UFO that was labelled by many as `the refuelling UFO' that caught the attention of millions of us from around the globe on two separate occasions. The pure clarity of the video and the fact that it appeared twice, puts it in pole position on my list. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ7RaOMHb5Ifeature=player_embedded#! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgs4QUNzZfIfeature=player_embedded Never mind the deluded voice over about non-existent UFOs, isn't it beautiful? Did you know the sun burns off four million tons of its own weight every second? It's been doing that for five billion years and will go on for another five billion before it runs out of fuel and expands to destroy the earth before collapsing in on itself to become a red dwarf. The atoms of the earth and all life on it including every cell in your body were made in the explosions of dying stars. Everything was once hydrogen and now some of those alchemised proto-atoms are sitting around wondering about where they came from and where they are going. It's all rather far out when you think about it. Sorry, came over all astral for a second there.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL)
A perfect example of why I protest Turq's categorizing me with Nabby Crop Circle man... gee. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: P.S. Just kidding there - I understood your post authfriend. #11 pages snipped# Emily; to write 1 sentence you just posted 11 pages of old stuff. Some people are reading this off the web and it's rather a nuicance to be reminded that grown-ups didn't learn to SNIP.
[FairfieldLife] Coming full circle
Ha. Judy, this is for you, chronological seventy yr. old, but who knows really, living in NJ, editor extraordinaire, in remission from Crohn's, no longer depressed, TM-doer, dedicated to the truth, more compassionate then we know, lover of opera and classical music, with a wicked, wonderful sense of humor, smarter than the average cat, loyal, thank you for sending me Bono. I knew you were serious when you sent Robin, Lady Gaga. Now, other than we know you still haven't sent us your observations of your experience staying in the shelter during this latest hurricane, and remembering that you visited your sister, and had just gotten a new phone, or ipod, or something during the last disaster, what do we know? I've only been here 2 years so I don't have the history of all the personal things you have revealed about yourself, but I would say you keep your cards pretty close to your chest. Steve is right about that...the rest of usTMI really. All that personal shit getting in the way of discussing good ideas. Tee Hee. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co6WMzDOh1o
[FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL)
Dear Bob, Did you sign your wonderful eulogy about Turq, with Robin's name? Or was that a typo? Or a cut and paste? -obba ;) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@... wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leohcvmf8kM Barry, Please ignore these ungrateful wretches, I'm not like them; I know how much love and effort you've put into our edification this past year, and I love you for it; I know how much you've sacrificed to make us better human beings, and I'm ashamed how ungrateful they are. I know how many other things you could be doing with your time; watching TV, walking the dogs, writing manuals, and visiting Beavis and Butthead; not to mention spending more quality time with Maya and your modern family. I know what its like to give till you have no more to give and the ingrates you're trying to help just don't get it (makes you wonder about this whole bodhisattva thing); they don't understand how hard it is to be as beautiful as you are, to be as good a person as you are; I know you know this, you show it to me everyday, and I would never have figured it out without your help. You see Barry, I really have fallen in love with you, not that platonic love I used to feel for Curtis, no, not that tepid tea, the real stuff, with all its messiness. And I don't know what I'd do if you gave up on us and stayed with Beavis and Butthead; frankly (please don't think this sounds like stalking), if you left I would have to move to Holland, and do whatever was in my power to find you, and serve you in any small way I could; and if you went all Roshi on me, and hit me with a stick or called the police, I would know it was just a test and your way of teaching me the real meaning of love. I know I have a lot to learn from you, but from what I feel today, on the day after Boxing Day 2012, I know I've made an incredible start, and I could not have done it without you. If only the others could see and understand what I've found on this mountain of my love for you; I know what they say about you is not true, your post was not Barry's Christmas enemies list; I know it's a Christmas *love and affection* list, like a wallop from the great cane of the Roshi of Ryoan-ji; producing welts of love and affection as deep as the resting place of the Titanic. Please stay Barry; Beavis and Butthead don't deserve you as much as we do; please give us another chance, and please ignore what they say about your message view; that it's shaped like the derriere of that fine young lady who begged you to message her behind; I know its not true that she was a lap dancer and you've likely been banned from the Yum Yum for stiffing (sorry, I know you could never stiff anybody) the dancers for their gratuities. I don't think what they say about you is true; that you have no life beyond your manuals, pirated TV, and FFL (I also don't believe its true that Maya is an imaginary friend, and her name is one of your more inspired unintended ironies---I know Maya exists!). I also don't believe them when they cruelly say you are a compulsive name dropper who never met one of Tim Leary's ex-wives. I'm sure the angels shed a tear every time that Judy woman hurts your feelings; she's a piece of work and I for one want nothing else to do with her; I love you Barry. Please ignore Obba; she's doesn't know how to speak to a real man like you. And please ignore Emily; she doesn't deserve the hand of loving kindness you've extended to her (the fact she would give some old Jack Russell a home says everything you need to know about her). And Ann, what can I say about her, she's obviously one of these women that has far too much education for her own good, and lives by that old maxim the more I know about Barry, the more I love my horses. I just can't believe how cruel these women are to you, with everything you've done for them; I'm hoping that the tiny point of light that I am can somehow make up for them, and convince you to stay; I think its cruel for them to say that when you go through this vale of tears FFL will pass before your eyes; I have no doubt there is a special place in the after life for you, and these women are all going to hell if they don't straighten up and begin to understand what you're trying to do for them. I only have one favor to ask, I know it's a lot to ask with the way you've been treated around here lately, but would it be at all possible to include me on Bucks list; I really do not want to be associated with that Judy woman and all the heart ache she's brought you. I know it's a lot to ask, but please give it some serious consideration; with your help, I've changed. Happy New Year, please don't give up on us, you've helped me to get real and get honest with myself; all my journey and suffering could never have gotten me
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: When my friend and I took off for Las Vegas/Utah this September - we did only one thing.  We booked our flights and hotel reservations on either end and we brought our camping gear.  We saidWell, we'll just play it by ear., because really, we were just too overwhelmed to do much else.  So, we ended up just following the next indicated step.  We planned our route in the hotel room with maps on the floor but with no guarantee of where we would stay. And, our conclusion was, that throughout our whole trip, the Universe supported us.  Which it did.  For example, we got the last campground in 3 different spots and the last hotel room in one.  One good thing after another...one weird, good thing after another.  We were so lucky in so many ways.  So, we came back with a trust in the Universeis that the support of Nature?  I would say that we threw everything up to the wind, and were as flexible as necessary, and we received more than we could have hoped for.  Did we align with the Universe?  I don't think the Universe aligned for us, but we trusted that all would be well, and it was. Of late, I have been having a number of weird coincidences happen; little things, big things..maybe life is like that and I'm just starting to notice.  It makes me feel a part of instead of always feeling like I'm on the outside looking in.  Good examples, Em. It really doesn't matter what you call it, serendipity, in sync, in the groove, going with the flow, in harmony with Nature, whatever. The experience is one of effortlessness, doing less and accomplishing more, as Maharishi would say. It doesn't mean we don't make choices, avoid taking responsibility for our actions or we sit back and do nothing. In the context of practicing TM, gaining more support of nature means our choices are more likely to be successful with less effort. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha  I can't give you any concrete examples of support of nature because...uh...it doesn't exist. What I can give you is a definition that might help you to better under- stand what's going on: Support of nature is what mood-making TMers call coincidence. Something ordinary happens, and because they want to feel important and as if something they think of as 'Nature' is rearranging things just to suit them, they project something onto the ordinary event to make it seem like *more* than coincidence. It isn't. There. Happy to have been of service. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Not THAT any! Had any support of Nature lately? Emily asked about support of Nature and I was thinking about it and feeling befuddled. Realized that I tend to agree with Ken Keyes idea that everything in life is either for our growth or for our enjoyment. I'd add that ideally everything is for both growth and enjoyment but with leaning at least a little in the enjoyment direction. So in this very broad sense support of Nature is always happening. Anyway, I don't think this is precisely what Maharishi means by support of Nature. What do you TMers current and ex think, especially you govs? Very especially you former TTC teachers. We know who you are! For me an example of support of Nature is that I left FF on a Wednesday and the first big snow of the season arrived the next day. But I bet you very creative FFLers can come up with way more fun examples than that (-:
[FairfieldLife] Protecting Those Who Protect Us: PTSD Relief for Officers of the Law
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=dDUtBqmAurE
[FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@... wrote: Dear Bob, Did you sign your wonderful eulogy about Turq, with Robin's name? Or was that a typo? Or a cut and paste? -obba ;) Good evening nitwit. That was 8 pages of old stuff to write 2 sentences, you are doing better than Emily. Congrats !
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
So how do you put those facts together? Astrology doesn't work? Or TM doesn't have the touted effects? Or Maharishi's platitudes like Do less and accomplish more screwed people's minds up? From: seekliberation seekliberat...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 9:25 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? Another funny coincidence in all this in terms of astrology.One of the primary planets that rules over spirituality, Saturn (ketu is the other), is not only a planet that rules over spirituality, but also discipline, responsibility, humility, and working. You would think that groups of people who identify with spirituality would be the most disciplined, humble, and productive individuals. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: TMers never had that model to benefit from. Many of them strove to *avoid* work whenever and however possible. Their loss. Maybe that explains why none of them ever achieved the enlightenment they claimed to be pursuing so diligently. I think I already sometime in the past mentioned the episode where Susan Humphries threatened to have me immediately dismissed from MIU for my refusal to run my department in the kitchen according to maharishi's theory of management meaning that I was to sit on my can and do nothing except delegate all orders to my subordinates. Even in my TM addiction days I thought it was such an (unfunny) joke that the TMO always touts the effects of TM as creating greater efficiency, greater returns on ones efforts in life (excellence in action) when most of the TMO leadership and even mid to low lever managers were always rude, inefficient, indolent and notoriously unable to get things done. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:54 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation wrote: I was just thinking, i've spent a lot of time arguing, pointing out faults, and trying to correct certaing unrealistic points of view with my family members, friends, and even a few people on this forum regarding the creation of Heaven on Earth. But then I realizedperhaps we just have conflicting views of what Heaven on Earth is really going to be like, and therefore it's pointless to argue. For example, I believe that we could do a lot more to make this world more conducive to life, spirituality, learning, and education. But just because those areas have improved doesn't mean we have 'Heaven on Earth'. But that also depends on what concept we consider 'heaven on earth'. After my interaction with most die hard TMO TB's over the years, I am convinced that their conception of heaven on earth is pretty much a Disney movie, but with no villians. Everyone will be skipping in the fields, singing songs like in the 'sound of music' and holding hands together. No one will have to work (at least not hard), no more weapons, no one will ever get hurt, we will all live longer, no one will get sick (very rarely at least), and basically, every single experience in life that is difficult or challenging will go away. It will become a thing of the past. Difficulties, challenges, strife, and personal conflict will be over. I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? A good question. I have no definitive answers, having bailed from the TMO long before they started selling HOE's on street corners. :-) My suspicion, based on the time I was there and the mentality shown by TM TB's I've encountered since, is that almost no one ever really *thought* about the nature of HOE at all. They just knew that it was a Good Thing because they'd been told it was, and it was To Be Sought because...well...ALL the best stuff in life was to be eternally Sought, and never achieved. That's just how things are. :-) If they imagine HOE at all, I suspect it looks a lot like this, only without the Hobbit: Everything all bright and shiny, celestial light all around, making everything look like those tacky pastel paintings in TM books. The important thing is that ALL of it would be achieved without ever having to resort to that horrible thing that lesser-evolved souls have
[FairfieldLife] Post Count
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): Sat Dec 22 00:00:00 2012 End Date (UTC): Sat Dec 29 00:00:00 2012 617 messages as of (UTC) Fri Dec 28 16:34:06 2012 46 Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com 45 doctordumb...@rocketmail.com, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. 45 Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com 42 turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com 41 Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com 36 Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com 35 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 25 Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com 23 authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com 23 Bob Price bobpri...@yahoo.com 22 obbajeeba no_re...@yahoogroups.com 18 Robin Carlsen maskedze...@yahoo.com 17 seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com 17 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 16 card cardemais...@yahoo.com 16 John jr_...@yahoo.com 15 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com 12 salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com 11 emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com 11 Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com 11 Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com 10 merudanda no_re...@yahoogroups.com 9 seekliberation seekliberat...@yahoo.com 9 Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us 7 Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com 6 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com 5 feste37 fest...@yahoo.com 5 azgrey no_re...@yahoogroups.com 5 PaliGap compost...@yahoo.co.uk 4 sri...@ymail.com, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. 4 laughinggull108 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 4 Susan waybac...@yahoo.com 4 emilymae.reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com 3 wgm4u no_re...@yahoogroups.com 3 mjackson74 mjackso...@yahoo.com 3 Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com 2 merlin vedamer...@yahoo.de 1 curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com 1 Richard rich...@infinitepie.net 1 Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 Doug Hamilton dhamiltony...@yahoo.com 1 Dick Mays dickm...@lisco.com 1 David fiskeda...@hotmail.com 1 at_man_and_brah...@sbcglobal.net at_man_and_brah...@sbcglobal.net Posters: 44 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
I just think that it would be very revealing and interesting for those of us who never became teachers and would give an insight as to the day to day workings of part of the Movement - maybe I will interview you when I write my book From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:18 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I wish you would write a book about your experiences with the TMO - guys like you and other old timers are living repositories of history - after all the TMO was a world wide movement and M probably the most successful con artist of the 20th Century - I hope you will tell your story one day. Sorry, not much chance of that, for many reasons. I wasn't really around all that long, and didn't have all that much close contact with Maharishi, just more than some because of the Regional Office/State Coordinator thang. Curtis would be a better bet to write about the TM movement than I would, at least from the non-TB perspective you're speaking about. On another level, I have so Been There Done That with writing about studying with a spiritual teacher than I hope not to repeat the experience in any incarnation. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
Seems to me that God ordains Kali Yuga as righteous. Don't see God cutting it short. If God's happy with the world going into abject evil, then so should we all be. This IS Heaven -- what else to call being inside God's mind (holodeck) as an object of His consciousness? God is experimenting with increasingly darker personalities to see what happens when there is but a speck of divine left in people. IT'S FUN! Just like when you or I watch a monster movie -- we'd be pissed if the monster came off as not believable. We want Boris Karloff to scare us! If it hurts to live in these days, great -- rapid evolution, rapid letting go of doership. Remember what Maharishi said when asked by the crime rate increased? He said, the criminals are now killing the criminals -- something like that. And that's proof that no matter what we are experiencing, there will always be someone trying to convince us it's perfection itself. And note, in a happier age, Rama walked into Heaven with, say, 50,000 of his followers -- except for Sita -- Sita was sent to Hell instead merely because she was suspected of having been raped by Ravana. Doesn't seem to me that a perfect personality and perfect dharma protected Sita from Hell, so all bets are off when we try to guess what a mini-age-of-enlightenment would be like. And I sure don't think I've led any life as nice as Sita's life, so WHO IS ANYONE KIDDING HERE? This is about surrendering to God's imagination. Period. So if anyone wants to try to convince me that ANY age is a better age, they gots some splainin' ta do. Cuz, I'd rather have my bigass TV in Kali Yuga than be lighting another candle in Sat Yuga only to have my karma wallop me there too. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: I think Susan, Post #330889 has the right idea. The world is just going to be the way it is. How we experience that determines whether our life is heaven or hell.
[FairfieldLife] An update on the light makes water into liquid crystal research.
I think it directly THREATENS the TM view of PURE BEING. I'm still crazy nutzoid about this research. But don't take my word for it -- SIMPLY LOOK INTO A CUP OF HOT WATER! There's something to see there, something you've seen many a time, and yet you've never not once understood it, and in fact, if asked right now, you'd be wrong about how you'd explain a cup of hot water. Of course, I'd be nutzoid about something else if it were not for this, so, hey, factor out that common denominator, and forget that it's me introducing this stuff here. This stuff still just keeps flooding me with more and more examples of how this PHYSICAL LAW is operative in the universe -- it redefines the concept life. Edg http://cnsi.ctrl.ucla.edu/streaming/art-sci/3222012-pallack
[FairfieldLife] Oliver Stone: US has become an Orwellian State
/It is an Orwellian state. It might not be oppressive on the surface, but there is no place to hide. Some part of you is going to end up in the database somewhere./ http://rt.com/news/oliver-stone-us-orwellian-022/ Let's mock those fools who think that a surveillance state is cool.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL)
Nabby, I am sorry - really. Big hassle, I know. I don't think deeply enough about all this in the moment. And, I don't receive all the posts - because of Yahoo - so I am always focused on trying to figure out where the conversation has gone or is going and don't worry about the particulars. I will switch to the interface soon and do better at paying larger attention. Thank you for noticing. Emily. From: obbajeeba no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:58 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL) A perfect example of why I protest Turq's categorizing me with Nabby Crop Circle man... gee. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: P.S. Just kidding there - I understood your post authfriend. #11 pages snipped# Emily; to write 1 sentence you just posted 11 pages of old stuff. Some people are reading this off the web and it's rather a nuicance to be reminded that grown-ups didn't learn to SNIP.
[FairfieldLife] Re: An update on the light makes water into liquid crystal research.
And this guy seems to be playing with the same dynamics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1eyLEo8_A --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@... wrote: I think it directly THREATENS the TM view of PURE BEING. I'm still crazy nutzoid about this research. But don't take my word for it -- SIMPLY LOOK INTO A CUP OF HOT WATER! There's something to see there, something you've seen many a time, and yet you've never not once understood it, and in fact, if asked right now, you'd be wrong about how you'd explain a cup of hot water. Of course, I'd be nutzoid about something else if it were not for this, so, hey, factor out that common denominator, and forget that it's me introducing this stuff here. This stuff still just keeps flooding me with more and more examples of how this PHYSICAL LAW is operative in the universe -- it redefines the concept life. Edg http://cnsi.ctrl.ucla.edu/streaming/art-sci/3222012-pallack
[FairfieldLife] Re: Coming full circle
Diplomatic, lover of democratic principles, good person, has a storage area. This is enough Judy, for me. Love always, Emily. From: Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 2:06 PM Subject: Coming full circle Ha. Judy, this is for you, chronological seventy yr. old, but who knows really, living in NJ, editor extraordinaire, in remission from Crohn's, no longer depressed, TM-doer, dedicated to the truth, more compassionate then we know, lover of opera and classical music, with a wicked, wonderful sense of humor, smarter than the average cat, loyal, thank you for sending me Bono. I knew you were serious when you sent Robin, Lady Gaga. Now, other than we know you still haven't sent us your observations of your experience staying in the shelter during this latest hurricane, and remembering that you visited your sister, and had just gotten a new phone, or ipod, or something during the last disaster, what do we know? I've only been here 2 years so I don't have the history of all the personal things you have revealed about yourself, but I would say you keep your cards pretty close to your chest. Steve is right about that...the rest of usTMI really. All that personal shit getting in the way of discussing good ideas. Tee Hee. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co6WMzDOh1o
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
snip In reality, as I saw it then and now, *I* was going more smoothly. Nature hadn't done a damned thing, and wasn't paying any attention. It couldn't; it didn't *have the ability* to pay attention, not being sentient and all. This speaks to a position of duality - you as separate from Natureif energy is energy is energy is energy, isn't there some argument for connection? I think about this when I think about dying - back to Mother Earth, so to speak, philosophically. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 8:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: I have had some experiences where what I was thinking or expecting actually happened in a woo woo ish way. And times when it felt scarily as if I could control situations with my quiet thoughts (not mentally ill). But what I think was going on was that my own thoughts had aligned with what was to be, with Nature. It was not that Nature aligned with my intentions and wishes. The experience was that the only thoughts that arose were those that on some very quiet level were really just a reflection of the flow of events already set in motion. I had tuned in to That. I can appreciate your careful phrasing here, Susan, and the thought you've given to this. I identify more with the idea of supporting nature (both in small case letters) than I do the support of Nature. I do not conceive of (and have never conceived of) Nature as a sentient entity, capable of having its own intent or plan for anything, or even deserving the capital letter. Thus I don't easily think of nature controlling anything in any way, or having the ability to do so, or even having the consciousness to do so. nature just is. It is literally What Is, whatever is. What I can identify with is feeling from time to time in tune with What Is, with nature just doing its thing. But even as a TB TMer I never believed in Support of Nature, as Maharishi used the phrase. If I felt myself in the flow, and that things seemed to be going more smoothly today than other days, in my view (both then and now), nature had nothing to do with that. If anything, I had just succeeded in quieting my mind to the point where it didn't throw up any internal roadblocks to things going smoothly, and as a result it seemed that things *were* going more smoothly. In reality, as I saw it then and now, *I* was going more smoothly. Nature hadn't done a damned thing, and wasn't paying any attention. It couldn't; it didn't *have the ability* to pay attention, not being sentient and all. I always managed to get by in the TMO while carrying around this somewhat heretical belief. :-) I carefully avoided giving any advanced lectures that ever mentioned the concept of support of nature as Maharishi gave voice to it, and was spared anyone ever asking a question about it, because if they had I would have told them what MMY had said on the subject, but then would have had to explain that I disagreed with it completely. It kind of felt as if I was moving things, but I seriously doubt it, since there were not many thoughts and they did not have the usual feel that I was controlling them. The thoughts just were there. Did you notice how effortlessly they came? Something good is happening. :-) I think when most fo the time things happen that we feel are good luck or suport of Nature, it is just a nice intersection of events that would happen anyway coinciding with our own patterns. That sounds like a great way to think of things, but I'm not even convinced of the that would happen anyway part of it. I don't believe that anything is supposed to happen or inevitably will happen. I think that the universe is eternally in flux, with no fixed plan or future, and that the direction or outcome or future path of this constant flow-flux can be changed at any moment. We *DO* influence the world around us, and occasionally can keep things from happening that would otherwise most likely happened. The day I happened to be sitting there when a neighborhood cat decided to take a flying fuck at a floating swan and found himself in a canal he couldn't climb out of strikes me as one of those occasions. There was no one else around. If I had done nothing, the cat would most likely have drowned, as so many do every year when they fall into the canals. But I was there, and I pulled the cat out. Now, is it more Occam's Razor likely that I just happened to be there, and the cat just happened to benefit from that, or that there was some Grand Plan somewhere that shaped all of the events of my life (and the cat's) such that I was somehow led there at that time and place to earn my cat-saving merit badge? Personally, even if there is sentience behind the What Is of nature, I pretty
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
I'm thinking if I step into a vacuum chamber, i.e. no natural elements, I explode and die, very quickly. Sort of settles the living independent of Nature theory.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: snip In reality, as I saw it then and now, *I* was going  more smoothly. Nature hadn't done a damned thing, and wasn't paying any attention. It couldn't; it didn't *have the ability* to pay attention, not being sentient and all. This speaks to a position of duality - you as separate from Natureif energy is energy is energy is energy, isn't there some argument for connection?  I think about this when I think about dying - back to Mother Earth, so to speak, philosophically.  From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 8:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: I have had some experiences where what I was thinking or expecting actually happened in a woo woo ish way. And times when it felt scarily as if I could control situations with my quiet thoughts (not mentally ill). But what I think was going on was that my own thoughts had aligned with what was to be, with Nature. It was not that Nature aligned with my intentions and wishes. The experience was that the only thoughts that arose were those that on some very quiet level were really just a reflection of the flow of events already set in motion. I had tuned in to That. I can appreciate your careful phrasing here, Susan, and the thought you've given to this. I identify more with the idea of supporting nature (both in small case letters) than I do the support of Nature. I do not conceive of (and have never conceived of) Nature as a sentient entity, capable of having its own intent or plan for anything, or even deserving the capital letter. Thus I don't easily think of nature controlling anything in any way, or having the ability to do so, or even having the consciousness to do so. nature just is. It is literally What Is, whatever is. What I can identify with is feeling from time to time in tune with What Is, with nature just doing its thing. But even as a TB TMer I never believed in Support of Nature, as Maharishi used the phrase. If I felt myself in the flow, and that things seemed to be going more smoothly today than other days, in my view (both then and now), nature had nothing to do with that. If anything, I had just succeeded in quieting my mind to the point where it didn't throw up any internal roadblocks to things going smoothly, and as a result it seemed that things *were* going more smoothly. In reality, as I saw it then and now, *I* was going more smoothly. Nature hadn't done a damned thing, and wasn't paying any attention. It couldn't; it didn't *have the ability* to pay attention, not being sentient and all. I always managed to get by in the TMO while carrying around this somewhat heretical belief. :-) I carefully avoided giving any advanced lectures that ever mentioned the concept of support of nature as Maharishi gave voice to it, and was spared anyone ever asking a question about it, because if they had I would have told them what MMY had said on the subject, but then would have had to explain that I disagreed with it completely. It kind of felt as if I was moving things, but I seriously doubt it, since there were not many thoughts and they did not have the usual feel that I was controlling them. The thoughts just were there. Did you notice how effortlessly they came? Something good is happening. :-) I think when most fo the time things happen that we feel are good luck or suport of Nature, it is just a nice intersection of events that would happen anyway coinciding with our own patterns. That sounds like a great way to think of things, but I'm not even convinced of the that would happen anyway part of it. I don't believe that anything is supposed to happen or inevitably will happen. I think that the universe is eternally in flux, with no fixed plan or future, and that the direction or outcome or future path of this constant flow-flux can be changed at any moment. We *DO* influence the world around us, and occasionally can keep things from happening that would otherwise most likely happened. The day I happened to be sitting there when a neighborhood cat decided to take a flying fuck at a floating swan and found himself in a canal he couldn't climb out of strikes me as one of those occasions. There was no one else around. If I had done nothing, the cat would most likely have drowned, as so many do every year when they fall into the canals. But I was there, and I pulled the cat out. Now, is it more Occam's Razor likely that I
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha (or Am I Gonna be on TV?)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Not THAT any! Had any support of Nature lately? Emily asked about support of Nature and I was thinking about it and feeling befuddled. Realized that I tend to agree with Ken Keyes idea that everything in life is either for our growth or for our enjoyment. I'd add that ideally everything is for both growth and enjoyment but with leaning at least a little in the enjoyment direction. So in this very broad sense support of Nature is always happening. Anyway, I don't think this is precisely what Maharishi means by support of Nature. What do you TMers current and ex think, especially you govs? Very especially you former TTC teachers. We know who you are! For me an example of support of Nature is that I left FF on a Wednesday and the first big snow of the season arrived the next day. But I bet you very creative FFLers can come up with way more fun examples than that (-: Yes, it just happened about two hours ago when I was walking at Ocean Beach here in SF. http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A2KJkCHbUt5Qw3QA9sCJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Docean%2Bbeach%2Bsan%2Bfrancisco%26fr%3Dfptb-w3i-s%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D17w=922h=691imgurl=pics4.city-data.com%2Fcpicc%2Fcfiles34222.jpgrurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.city-data.com%2Fpicfilesc%2Fpicc34222.phpsize=275.3+KBname=San+Francisco%2C+CA+detailed+profilep=ocean+beach+san+franciscooid=5c565a154242638e33f8e747d4496628fr2=fr=fptb-w3i-stt=San%2BFrancisco%252C%2BCA%2Bdetailed%2Bprofileb=0ni=72no=17ts=tab=organicsigr=11ggdl0tssigb=13pcimn1hsigi=119fbdnj8.crumb=ePbl1odNcnF A TV reporter and his camera man approached me for an interview. I was wondering what they wanted to know. It turned out the reporter was wondering why I was wearing cut-off jeans at this time in the beach. He asked me if I knew that there a weather advisory in effect. I said I was exercising and was not aware that today was going to be bad day. I explained that the weather was fine for this time of year and waived hello to the camera. So, without knowing it, SF was spared from a winter storm and I didn't even know it until a TV reporter told me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
If one throws an intention out there and one receives back what one was asking for, is it just coincidence? I have used the principles stated in Hiring the Heavens and it has worked every time. I often think it's just my brain doing la di da, but it makes for a good day. From: Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha snip In reality, as I saw it then and now, *I* was going more smoothly. Nature hadn't done a damned thing, and wasn't paying any attention. It couldn't; it didn't *have the ability* to pay attention, not being sentient and all. This speaks to a position of duality - you as separate from Natureif energy is energy is energy is energy, isn't there some argument for connection? I think about this when I think about dying - back to Mother Earth, so to speak, philosophically. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 8:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: I have had some experiences where what I was thinking or expecting actually happened in a woo woo ish way. And times when it felt scarily as if I could control situations with my quiet thoughts (not mentally ill). But what I think was going on was that my own thoughts had aligned with what was to be, with Nature. It was not that Nature aligned with my intentions and wishes. The experience was that the only thoughts that arose were those that on some very quiet level were really just a reflection of the flow of events already set in motion. I had tuned in to That. I can appreciate your careful phrasing here, Susan, and the thought you've given to this. I identify more with the idea of supporting nature (both in small case letters) than I do the support of Nature. I do not conceive of (and have never conceived of) Nature as a sentient entity, capable of having its own intent or plan for anything, or even deserving the capital letter. Thus I don't easily think of nature controlling anything in any way, or having the ability to do so, or even having the consciousness to do so. nature just is. It is literally What Is, whatever is. What I can identify with is feeling from time to time in tune with What Is, with nature just doing its thing. But even as a TB TMer I never believed in Support of Nature, as Maharishi used the phrase. If I felt myself in the flow, and that things seemed to be going more smoothly today than other days, in my view (both then and now), nature had nothing to do with that. If anything, I had just succeeded in quieting my mind to the point where it didn't throw up any internal roadblocks to things going smoothly, and as a result it seemed that things *were* going more smoothly. In reality, as I saw it then and now, *I* was going more smoothly. Nature hadn't done a damned thing, and wasn't paying any attention. It couldn't; it didn't *have the ability* to pay attention, not being sentient and all. I always managed to get by in the TMO while carrying around this somewhat heretical belief. :-) I carefully avoided giving any advanced lectures that ever mentioned the concept of support of nature as Maharishi gave voice to it, and was spared anyone ever asking a question about it, because if they had I would have told them what MMY had said on the subject, but then would have had to explain that I disagreed with it completely. It kind of felt as if I was moving things, but I seriously doubt it, since there were not many thoughts and they did not have the usual feel that I was controlling them. The thoughts just were there. Did you notice how effortlessly they came? Something good is happening. :-) I think when most fo the time things happen that we feel are good luck or suport of Nature, it is just a nice intersection of events that would happen anyway coinciding with our own patterns. That sounds like a great way to think of things, but I'm not even convinced of the that would happen anyway part of it. I don't believe that anything is supposed to happen or inevitably will happen. I think that the universe is eternally in flux, with no fixed plan or future, and that the direction or outcome or future path of this constant flow-flux can be changed at any moment. We *DO* influence the world around us, and occasionally can keep things from happening that would otherwise most likely happened. The day I happened to be sitting there when a neighborhood cat decided to take a flying fuck at a floating swan and found himself in a canal he couldn't climb out of strikes me as one of those occasions. There was no one else around. If I had done nothing, the cat would most
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
Rightin my world, I am the elements of nature. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:34 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha I'm thinking if I step into a vacuum chamber, i.e. no natural elements, I explode and die, very quickly. Sort of settles the living independent of Nature theory.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: snip In reality, as I saw it then and now, *I* was going  more smoothly. Nature hadn't done a damned thing, and wasn't paying any attention. It couldn't; it didn't *have the ability* to pay attention, not being sentient and all. This speaks to a position of duality - you as separate from Natureif energy is energy is energy is energy, isn't there some argument for connection?  I think about this when I think about dying - back to Mother Earth, so to speak, philosophically.  From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 8:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: I have had some experiences where what I was thinking or expecting actually happened in a woo woo ish way. And times when it felt scarily as if I could control situations with my quiet thoughts (not mentally ill). But what I think was going on was that my own thoughts had aligned with what was to be, with Nature. It was not that Nature aligned with my intentions and wishes. The experience was that the only thoughts that arose were those that on some very quiet level were really just a reflection of the flow of events already set in motion. I had tuned in to That. I can appreciate your careful phrasing here, Susan, and the thought you've given to this. I identify more with the idea of supporting nature (both in small case letters) than I do the support of Nature. I do not conceive of (and have never conceived of) Nature as a sentient entity, capable of having its own intent or plan for anything, or even deserving the capital letter. Thus I don't easily think of nature controlling anything in any way, or having the ability to do so, or even having the consciousness to do so. nature just is. It is literally What Is, whatever is. What I can identify with is feeling from time to time in tune with What Is, with nature just doing its thing. But even as a TB TMer I never believed in Support of Nature, as Maharishi used the phrase. If I felt myself in the flow, and that things seemed to be going more smoothly today than other days, in my view (both then and now), nature had nothing to do with that. If anything, I had just succeeded in quieting my mind to the point where it didn't throw up any internal roadblocks to things going smoothly, and as a result it seemed that things *were* going more smoothly. In reality, as I saw it then and now, *I* was going more smoothly. Nature hadn't done a damned thing, and wasn't paying any attention. It couldn't; it didn't *have the ability* to pay attention, not being sentient and all. I always managed to get by in the TMO while carrying around this somewhat heretical belief. :-) I carefully avoided giving any advanced lectures that ever mentioned the concept of support of nature as Maharishi gave voice to it, and was spared anyone ever asking a question about it, because if they had I would have told them what MMY had said on the subject, but then would have had to explain that I disagreed with it completely. It kind of felt as if I was moving things, but I seriously doubt it, since there were not many thoughts and they did not have the usual feel that I was controlling them. The thoughts just were there. Did you notice how effortlessly they came? Something good is happening. :-) I think when most fo the time things happen that we feel are good luck or suport of Nature, it is just a nice intersection of events that would happen anyway coinciding with our own patterns. That sounds like a great way to think of things, but I'm not even convinced of the that would happen anyway part of it. I don't believe that anything is supposed to happen or inevitably will happen. I think that the universe is eternally in flux, with no fixed plan or future, and that the direction or outcome or future path of this constant flow-flux can be changed at any moment. We *DO* influence the world around us, and occasionally can keep things from happening that would otherwise most likely happened. The day I happened to be sitting there when a neighborhood cat decided to take a flying fuck at a floating swan and found himself in a canal he couldn't climb out of
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
Om Dear Seek, TMO Heaven on Earth has been Quite well described here. Jeezus X-mas just what the puck you been reading here; you can not get through all that personal bickering stuff that dilutes the real spiritual here that ought to really be carried off-line between folks privately? Y:ou obviously missed this: Since time immemorial the creation of Heaven on Earth has been the highest aspiration of religions. All religions teach, however, that if Heaven is to be created on earth, it can happen only by having enough individuals whose consciousness is fully developed; that is, individuals whose consciousness is so expanded that it becomes one with the supreme intelligence of nature which permeates the whole universe and upholds all of creation. What else did you miss? The Cultural Revolution? -Buck Om and take a look at this if you need some review, it is Maharishiji straight Heaven on Earth. HOE. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/330584 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation
[FairfieldLife] Re: I love the man from Holland (was Happy Christmas FFL)
Dear Naggy, The purpose was for the question. What kind of wine are you drinking in the Alps? :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@ wrote: Dear Bob, Did you sign your wonderful eulogy about Turq, with Robin's name? Or was that a typo? Or a cut and paste? -obba ;) Good evening nitwit. That was 8 pages of old stuff to write 2 sentences, you are doing better than Emily. Congrats !
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
Once again, your post tends to remain rather vague in describing exactly what HoE is supposed to be like. First off, yes religions have had the aspiration to create heaven on earth. Given what I know, and what i've read from your posts, i'm convinced that neither of us really know in depth the process of souls incarnating in this world and the reason why ignorant and undeveloped souls are sent here. From what little I do know, All religions teach that our consciousness has to be fully developed for HoE to be a reality, just like you say. But that's the problem. From what i've learned, the reason we're incarnated here is BECAUSE our consciousness ISN'T fully awake. If our consciousness was fully awake, we wouldn't be here. It's just like a prison, if someone wasn't a criminal, they wouldn't be there. So creating a perfect prison is futile. Only Hinduism seems to contain the information of how and why our souls are incarnated here, and i'm convinced that Hinduism has branched off enough to where the information is very diluted. Western (Abrahamic) religions fall very short of understanding this cycle of birth and death (they believe life is a one-shot deal, heaven or hell, etc..). Bhuddism contains only the bare essentials to reach CC. Therefore, we have only fragmented ideas of perfection that are entirely out of context with the big picture of our soul's situation here on earth. What i've noticed with many TM'ers and Siddhas is that they are a lot of the nicest people i've ever met, but they are very mild. They have to limit their experiences in life to mild experiences. The really deep and heavy experiences that help lead to our consciousness becoming fully awake.they tend to avoid. Then they use their supreme logic to label those experiences as being negative or ignorant. As a result, their consciousness doesn't become fully awake, and the possibility of HoE is null. The whole reason of creating this post in the first place anyway, was because i'm convinced that the conception of HoE that exists in the TMO is a reality that is not achievable, particularly in this lifetime (unless the HoE concept is different from what I perceived). I am convinced that the concept of HoE in the TMO is a paradigm that is based on limiting our experiences only to what we can already handle, which is very limited in terms of the full spectrum of life which our creator expects us to become accustomed to. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Om Dear Seek, TMO Heaven on Earth has been Quite well described here. Jeezus X-mas just what the puck you been reading here; you can not get through all that personal bickering stuff that dilutes the real spiritual here that ought to really be carried off-line between folks privately? Y:ou obviously missed this: Since time immemorial the creation of Heaven on Earth has been the highest aspiration of religions. All religions teach, however, that if Heaven is to be created on earth, it can happen only by having enough individuals whose consciousness is fully developed; that is, individuals whose consciousness is so expanded that it becomes one with the supreme intelligence of nature which permeates the whole universe and upholds all of creation. What else did you miss? The Cultural Revolution? -Buck Om and take a look at this if you need some review, it is Maharishiji straight Heaven on Earth. HOE. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/330584 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Om Dear Seek, TMO Heaven on Earth has been Quite well described here. Jeezus X-mas just what the puck you been reading here; you can not get through all that personal bickering stuff that dilutes the real spiritual here that ought to really be carried off-line between folks privately? Y:ou obviously missed this: Since time immemorial the creation of Heaven on Earth has been the highest aspiration of religions. All religions teach, however, that if Heaven is to be created on earth, it can happen only by having enough individuals whose consciousness is fully developed; that is, individuals whose consciousness is so expanded that it becomes one with the supreme intelligence of nature which permeates the whole universe and upholds all of creation. So is it some sort of 'lion lays down with the lamb' sort of thing that Jehovas witnesses go on about? It's the 'supreme intelligence of nature' bit that worries me, I've never once thought of nature as having any intelligence at all, she seems to be just bodging everything up as she goes along. Sure you get a bit more seratonin when you do TM which makes you feel all spacey and at one but you aren't any more at one with anything than you were when you started. But if you were to say that HoE was when life was lived in accord with natural law then I might agree because that means that we are all obeying the laws of Manu, that utterly bonkers fundamentalist from the distant past. I remember the TMO trying to introduce a bit of that a few years ago with it's banning of pregnant and menstruating women from ceremony's at the domes. Went down rather well didn't it? What else did you miss? The Cultural Revolution? I'm pretty sure that actually happened though. -Buck Om and take a look at this if you need some review, it is Maharishiji straight Heaven on Earth. HOE. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/330584 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I simply wonder sometimes if the TMO has ever really explained what they really mean by Heaven on Earth? Do they really advertise that there will be no war, no violence some day? No more theft, fraud, cheating or lying? All these negative qualities will just disappear? That seems to be the perception and that I get when discussing what HOE will be like if it happens. Anyone here have any experience in the TMO actually defining HOE? seekliberation
[FairfieldLife] Re: had any lately ha ha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: There is something way oversimplified in your definition of 'support of nature' for me Share. First of all, to believe there is such a thing we have to imagine ourselves somehow in the center of things, we have to be a bit egocentric. For example, for you to believe that somehow this large weather system 'waited' for you to leave FF is putting a whole lot of importance on who you are and what you do. You also have to assume that by not getting caught in the storm this was somehow a good thing. In addition, you would have to believe that 'nature' is operating primarily with you in mind (the egocentric part of the equation) but what about all the other individuals on the planet that this event (of the storm) impacted negatively? Did they somehow not garner the same support that you did and why? What did you do to earn this support of nature? Meditate? Fly? Wear the right clothing? Eat the appropriate foods? Have you considered that if you had been waylaid in your exiting FF by the snow something really astoundingly wonderful and life transformative could have happened instead and that, in fact, you escaping FF before the storm hit was actually a bad thing because of what you missed if you had been marooned there? In other words, you interpreted your having got out of FF before the storm hit as support of nature when in fact maybe it was one of the most unfortunate things that ever happened to you. Maybe if you had been trapped by the weather, never got home for Christmas, you would be enlightened by now, or met the man of your dreams or discovered the alchemical formula to make gold. Whatever the vicissitudes of life's circumstances, cause and effect in the field of karma is unfathomable or maybe Share had a lucky coin that dropped in the right slot at the right time. No need to place woo woo on a mundane event in one's life. Just be glad you're not an unlucky traveler stuck in the snow. IMO a working definition of Support of Nature is good luck. In Jyotish parlance, it's a well aspected 9th house. Robin might call it grace. Ann, those lucky days where everything seems to go flawlessly, without a hitch, where one feels, in sync, in harmony with all that is, where one's efforts are effortless, or the laws of nature rush to support you, as Maharishi would say, what would you call such days? I don't classify days that way. I don't really think of days as having a string of 'fortunate' or 'unfortunate' sequences of events. It doesn't seem like 'things' happening are external to me. I am very much a part of what happens to me and what those things are seem bound up to me in some way that is external but part of a whole. Some events are definitely more pleasant than others or less frustrating but it is kind of like being part of a body of water that is all around me, carrying me along, pummelling me into the beach sometimes or lifting me up for a great body surf at others but for me it is more that I am part of this energy flow. Not to sound too esoteric here but when things feel seamless and pleasant it is as if I am going with the current as opposed to fighting against it. Events of nature aren't separate from me in that way that I could say I have support of the laws of nature or not. I have had experiences of grace, for sure, and the forces that came into play during those times were definitely outside, separate from myself. Many times these moments of grace were in the form of 'saving' me from some injury or physical danger. I know these times were some sort of divine intervention. But I don't think weather systems or other large natural phenomena are somehow connected to helping or serving just me. No, it is all much smaller than that, little effects that others might not notice but that have been the difference between life and death, or at least grievous injury to me. For me, nature is God, it is personal - even the hard stuff. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Not THAT any! Had any support of Nature lately? Emily asked about support of Nature and I was thinking about it and feeling befuddled. Realized that I tend to agree with Ken Keyes idea that everything in life is either for our growth or for our enjoyment. I'd add that ideally everything is for both growth and enjoyment but with leaning at least a little in the enjoyment direction. So in this very broad sense support of Nature is always happening. Anyway, I don't think this is precisely what Maharishi means by support of Nature. What do you TMers current and ex think, especially you govs? Very especially you former TTC teachers. We know who you are! For me an example of support
