Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
I don 't revile you as a true believer - you have gone beyond that to become a Willy Tex clone. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others You do bring up a good point about wasting time, posting here Michael. I feel the exact same way about my posts in response to you. You are so far gone up the - TM is bad, MMY is bad, TMO is bad alley, that I also, know I am wasting my time to suggest that you see where in many cases your viewpoint is skewed. And now you will give me your rote reply about what a true believer I am, yada, yada, yada. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger...
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
soundofstillness, was it Blake who said something about it being better to kill s babe in its cradle than nurse unacted desires? Obviously he wasn't tuned into motherhood! On Friday, July 25, 2014 9:05 PM, soundofstilln...@ymail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: TurquoiseBee I haven't thought about this quote long enough to have an opinion, but it is making me think about it, so thanks. At first glance, I suspect there may be some value in this quote. Does it mean that if we have buried our dream(s) our dream will begin to eat away at us from the inside out because the dream that might come in the form of a 'whispering' keeps speaking to us, because it wants to be born and can only be born through us.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
So, it's all about Willy Tex. Maybe I was mistaken - I thought it was all about Maharishi, karma, levitating off a stage and flying in a golden dome. Go figure. On 7/26/2014 6:38 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I don 't revile you as a true believer - you have gone beyond that to become a Willy Tex clone. *From:* steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, July 25, 2014 11:31 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others You do bring up a good point about wasting time, posting here Michael. I feel the exact same way about my posts in response to you. You are so far gone up the - TM is bad, MMY is bad, TMO is bad alley, that I also, know I am wasting my time to suggest that you see where in many cases your viewpoint is skewed. And now you will give me your rote reply about what a true believer I am, yada, yada, yada. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. *From:* awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot. *From:* Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, July 25, 2014 7:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger...
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
On 7/25/2014 10:31 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: You do bring up a good point about wasting time, posting here Michael. I feel the exact same way about my posts in response to you. You are so far gone up the - TM is bad, MMY is bad, TMO is bad alley, that I also, know I am wasting my time to suggest that you see where in many cases your viewpoint is skewed. And now you will give me your rote reply about what a true believer I am, yada, yada, yada. He is starting to sound very robotic the last couple of weeks. Apparently he is wearing himself down physicaly and not getting enough sleep. He has made no new contributions to the conversation for at least a month, yet he keeps posting the same thing over and over again to the same thread. Do you think he is still in an acute trance-induction state or has he developed a long-term disassociation? However, he does seem to be prone to suggestion, so your efforts here are probably not a total waste. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. *From:* awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot. *From:* Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, July 25, 2014 7:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger...
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
On 7/25/2014 11:01 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: kind of shows the difference of a person who progresses along, and another person who remains stuck in the past. You can tell if a person is old if he always talks about where he has been, instead of talking about where he is going. hoo boy, am I on a wasting time binge right now! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are right - you have changed my life. I shall now have as my mission the task of telling you that you are handling your horses incorrectly. Thanks for expanding my world!!! I am so happy now! I've changed your life and I'm right? Sorry, don't understand that. And if you want to tell me I am handling my horses correctly or incorrectly you are welcome to do that; I pay people to teach me all the time - other trainers and clinicians are something I access constantly in order to improve what I do in my sport. *From:* awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, July 25, 2014 11:04 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. Ah, but this is their choice, not to be ensnared, but to follow and believe in what they do. That is their right, their journey and, for all anyone one knows, the best thing for them. As much as you want to warn people and make them come to believe what you believe it will probably not happen and probably shouldn't. There is no more MMY to support and give money to. The Movement is in a never-ending transition just like everything else. The past is the past and the future is unknown. Let Nabby and Buck have their beliefs and their lives to live as they will. I can think of far worse things to believe in and to support. The TM Movement is a very small fry indeed. *From:* awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Share Long soundofstillness, was it Blake who said something about it being better to kill s babe in its cradle than nurse unacted desires? Obviously he wasn't tuned into motherhood! Something like that. Was TM the inspiration for TM? Every man has a vocation to be someone: in order to fulfill this vocation he can only be one person: himself. - Thomas Merton ps. I had this 'insight' in this morning's meditation. A kind of 'selfie' small 'm'ahavakya. When I began meditating I heard about the knower, process of knowing, object of perception. So the mantra was the object, transcending/settling was the process and if there was no object and no process, that left the knower which we wouldn't realize until we were thinking, oh, there was no mantra and no thoughts. Yippee! I also heard that these three amigos could become one, which I couldn't quite figure out, at least from my experience. Then this morning I had this small 'r'ealization (of what I've experienced for who knows how long) that the object of attention, the process of refining, and awareness are one, all at the same time. One doesn't have to have no mantra or nor thoughts to 'transcend' thought, much like a table and chairs don't have to be removed from a room to realize the space. Or something like that, I'm not explaining very well. I suppose as MJ suggests, it's part of the TM mythos that different states have different realities and different teachings. But I can hear everyone reading this saying . . . Geez, what took you so long!
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
soundofstillness, life is the inspiration for more life maybe? And thank you for sharing very cool experience, selfie mahavakya which I thought you explained very well. Happy First Day of Sat Yuga. At least according to the Shrimad Bhagavatam. I do think that one big reason Maharishi brought out the sidhis, other than that people started popping out of their chairs during lectures, was to shorten the length of time TMers had to be in that dry, flat CC. He has said that with practice of the TMSP one would develop all the higher states simultaneously. PLUS, I think different nervous systems will have slightly different experiences of CC, GC, etc. Probably too big differences bt men and women enlightenment wise. I could be wrong (-: On Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:37 AM, soundofstilln...@ymail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Share Long soundofstillness, was it Blake who said something about it being better to kill s babe in its cradle than nurse unacted desires? Obviously he wasn't tuned into motherhood! Something like that. Was TM the inspiration for TM? Every man has a vocation to be someone: in order to fulfill this vocation he can only be one person: himself. - Thomas Merton ps. I had this 'insight' in this morning's meditation. A kind of 'selfie' small 'm'ahavakya. When I began meditating I heard about the knower, process of knowing, object of perception. So the mantra was the object, transcending/settling was the process and if there was no object and no process, that left the knower which we wouldn't realize until we were thinking, oh, there was no mantra and no thoughts. Yippee! I also heard that these three amigos could become one, which I couldn't quite figure out, at least from my experience. Then this morning I had this small 'r'ealization (of what I've experienced for who knows how long) that the object of attention, the process of refining, and awareness are one, all at the same time. One doesn't have to have no mantra or nor thoughts to 'transcend' thought, much like a table and chairs don't have to be removed from a room to realize the space. Or something like that, I'm not explaining very well. I suppose as MJ suggests, it's part of the TM mythos that different states have different realities and different teachings. But I can hear everyone reading this saying . . . Geez, what took you so long!
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Xeno, thank you for taking the time to reply. As much as I love logic and Mr. Spock, in terms of considering what someone says or writes, I tend to go more by how someone's energy feels to me. I notice that I tend to enjoy more settled expressions, especially if they're positive. But also enjoy dry wit and commentary. I've come to the conclusion that online relationships and communities are uncharted territory for most of us. So I take everything presented here with a grain of salt. I think it's silly for people to comment on the TMO, etc. when they haven't been around it for decades! I also think that ragging on anyone and anything over and over is an indication that a person has unresolved childhood issues and has found a safe scapegoat. I could be wrong. And if I am, I'm sure life will straighten me out. Eventually (-: On Friday, July 25, 2014 1:22 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Share, But logically, this is incorrect. While psychologically one might doubt a person's statement because of his/her known character and reliability, the truth of a statement made by someone can only logically be determined if it corresponds to an actual fact. The fact the person is a scoundrel and liar does not prove a statement is false. This is the classic ad hominem argument, where you attack the character of the source of the statement to supposedly prove a statement is false. Except this does not prove the statement false. It may make you assume the statement is false, but an assumption is not a fact. It is an emotional misdirection, classically used by politicians all the time. The reverse of this argument is pro hominem, 'argument for the man' in which one supposes a statement is true because so-and-so made it. It is equally invalid. That Maharishi was something of a scoundrel seems fairly well established, but the evidence is from my point of view largely circumstantial. It has psychological weight but further investigation, which I certainly will not carry out, would be needed to substantiate it. That similar things occurred with figures in the movement that I was more familiar with adds to that psychological weight and indicates a certain pattern of behaviour within the upper echelons of the movement that filters down. The real question to answer is how much did these shortcomings curtail the effectiveness of his stated primary mission. If his primary mission was clandestine, say to accumulate money, then probably it did curtail the stated primary mission. As far as it affected me, I do not think it had much effect on any benefits I received, though I made it a point to absolutely minimise expenditures to the movement, making no donations whatever, and only spending for something I felt would be valuable to me, such as residence courses, which I did in the first few years of learning TM. Most of what the movement has offered beyond TM I felt was worthless, such as jyotish, stapatyaveda, most of ayurveda, and a host of similar things which rode in on the coattails of people's fascination with TM. I found TM most useful, though now, in my fifth decade, its utility has worn very thin, it has served its purpose. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Thanks! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, this is imo beautifully articulated. Thanks... On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:21 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: [Attachment(s) from fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] included below] Steve's point is a good one - How's that working for you? There are several here, who take great delight, and are very conscientious, about pointing out what they consider flaws in Maharishi's system of teaching meditation, and his considerable comments on spiritual growth. There is nothing wrong with being critical, and calling bullshit, when it is apparent, but the process only works favorably, if the same scrutiny is applied to the individual making the judgments, and doing the nit-picking. In other words, a person's credibility, in making these ongoing negative assessments about Maharishi's system, is only solid, if that same critical eye is turned on the person, by his or herself. If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Turn a critical eye, and voice all of that, about Maharishi's system, over and over and over again. However, if there are deep needs of the heart going unfulfilled, or personal domains that need work, better to spend time working those out, vs. this endless diatribe, against all things Maharishi. Otherwise it looks like a bad day at work, led to kicking the dog, at home, over and over and over again, if you catch my drift.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Joke Rimshot - Punch Line Drum Sound Effect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeMwHZrUbVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeMwHZrUbVA Joke Rimshot - Punch Line Drum Sound Effect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeMwHZrUbVA Follow up a joke (or lack thereof) with this Rimshot Sound Effect! Many more sound effects at http://SoundFXNow.com Millions of Sound Effects: http://bit.ly/... View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeMwHZrUbVA Preview by Yahoo Your ultimate insult, which you find a way to repackage each day. Wait, come to think of it, Repackaging pretty much describes all you posts here! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I don 't revile you as a true believer - you have gone beyond that to become a Willy Tex clone. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others You do bring up a good point about wasting time, posting here Michael. I feel the exact same way about my posts in response to you. You are so far gone up the - TM is bad, MMY is bad, TMO is bad alley, that I also, know I am wasting my time to suggest that you see where in many cases your viewpoint is skewed. And now you will give me your rote reply about what a true believer I am, yada, yada, yada. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger...
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
And yet its ok for the TMO to rave on endlessly about how fabulous and without blemish TM is when we all know differently? Some of us feel that exposure of hypocrisy and activities including solicitation to meditate that does actual harm in the context of what has become a bona fide cult is a positive thing for our society at large. Unfortunately since so many of the joe and jane doe's of our society look no farther than Oh Jennifer Anniston is a TM'er! TM must be god! and the celebrity driven lies the David Lynch promotes, the real info about TM from people like Gina Catena is marginalized. But in case you haven't noticed, TM has STILL not become a common practice among the world's population. The reason? The claims for just TM alone, not to mention all the adjunct programs are unrealistic and unsustainable. The outrageous claims that Marshy made that have become dogma amongst TM'ers were made from Marshy's hubris and his confidence that his followers were so stupid and locked into his vibe that they would follow him and give him money no matter what he claimed. Now that he's gone, the TMO can never hope to keep its medicine show going when it is looked at in the light of day. But there are some of us who do like to shine the light of truth and common sense onto the lies that back TM. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Xeno, thank you for taking the time to reply. As much as I love logic and Mr. Spock, in terms of considering what someone says or writes, I tend to go more by how someone's energy feels to me. I notice that I tend to enjoy more settled expressions, especially if they're positive. But also enjoy dry wit and commentary. I've come to the conclusion that online relationships and communities are uncharted territory for most of us. So I take everything presented here with a grain of salt. I think it's silly for people to comment on the TMO, etc. when they haven't been around it for decades! I also think that ragging on anyone and anything over and over is an indication that a person has unresolved childhood issues and has found a safe scapegoat. I could be wrong. And if I am, I'm sure life will straighten me out. Eventually (-: On Friday, July 25, 2014 1:22 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Share, But logically, this is incorrect. While psychologically one might doubt a person's statement because of his/her known character and reliability, the truth of a statement made by someone can only logically be determined if it corresponds to an actual fact. The fact the person is a scoundrel and liar does not prove a statement is false. This is the classic ad hominem argument, where you attack the character of the source of the statement to supposedly prove a statement is false. Except this does not prove the statement false. It may make you assume the statement is false, but an assumption is not a fact. It is an emotional misdirection, classically used by politicians all the time. The reverse of this argument is pro hominem, 'argument for the man' in which one supposes a statement is true because so-and-so made it. It is equally invalid. That Maharishi was something of a scoundrel seems fairly well established, but the evidence is from my point of view largely circumstantial. It has psychological weight but further investigation, which I certainly will not carry out, would be needed to substantiate it. That similar things occurred with figures in the movement that I was more familiar with adds to that psychological weight and indicates a certain pattern of behaviour within the upper echelons of the movement that filters down. The real question to answer is how much did these shortcomings curtail the effectiveness of his stated primary mission. If his primary mission was clandestine, say to accumulate money, then probably it did curtail the stated primary mission. As far as it affected me, I do not think it had much effect on any benefits I received, though I made it a point to absolutely minimise expenditures to the movement, making no donations whatever, and only spending for something I felt would be valuable to me, such as residence courses, which I did in the first few years of learning TM. Most of what the movement has offered beyond TM I felt was worthless, such as jyotish, stapatyaveda, most of ayurveda, and a host of similar things which rode in on the coattails of people's fascination with TM. I found TM most useful, though now, in my fifth decade, its utility has worn very thin, it has served its purpose. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@...
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Yep, Power to the people, Right on! Some suggestions for *revolting* behavior, against all things TM: 1. Enter any east facing doorways, sideways, to ensure you are facing SOUTH - Take THAT, Maharishi! 2. Consider a change of diet, for example, a breakfast blender shake, of filet mignon, tobacco, beer, chocolate, mushrooms, and peanuts! Gr, Guru Dev... 3. Astrology advice? Read it on **Yahoo**, with a BIFF, POW, SOCK-O, to the TMO!! Let's make a difference, one daze at a time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : oh, let's not forget the simple act of eating a pizza can be a means to torment MMY, wherever he may be. you know boasting about putting mushrooms on a pizza just so you can show him no, no attachment there. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Well said Doc Fleet Mac - and it pretty much describes me, so... From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Fleetwood, this is imo beautifully articulated. Thanks... On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:21 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: [Attachment(s) https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch#TopText from fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] included below] Steve's point is a good one - How's that working for you? There are several here, who take great delight, and are very conscientious, about pointing out what they consider flaws in Maharishi's system of teaching meditation, and his considerable comments on spiritual growth. There is nothing wrong with being critical, and calling bullshit, when it is apparent, but the process only works favorably, if the same scrutiny is applied to the individual making the judgments, and doing the nit-picking. In other words, a person's credibility, in making these ongoing negative assessments about Maharishi's system, is only solid, if that same critical eye is turned on the person, by his or herself. If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Turn a critical eye, and voice all of that, about Maharishi's system, over and over and over again. However, if there are deep needs of the heart going unfulfilled, or personal domains that need work, better to spend time working those out, vs. this endless diatribe, against all things Maharishi. Otherwise it looks like a bad day at work, led to kicking the dog, at home, over and over and over again, if you catch my drift. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was being somewhat facetious in my commentary on the origins of so-called vedic wisdom, but I bet I am not far off the mark From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To:
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yep, Power to the people, Right on! Some suggestions for *revolting* behavior, against all things TM: 1. Enter any east facing doorways, sideways, to ensure you are facing SOUTH - Take THAT, Maharishi! 2. Consider a change of diet, for example, a breakfast blender shake, of filet mignon, tobacco, beer, chocolate, mushrooms, and peanuts! Gr, Guru Dev... 3. Astrology advice? Read it on **Yahoo**, with a BIFF, POW, SOCK-O, to the TMO!! Let's make a difference, one daze at a time.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Might as well piss- off Shavites and Orthodox Jews as well, and add a some grilled onions to that bacon cheese burger. On Saturday, July 26, 2014 11:38 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yep, Power to the people, Right on! Some suggestions for *revolting* behavior, against all things TM: 1. Enter any east facing doorways, sideways, to ensure you are facing SOUTH - Take THAT, Maharishi! 2. Consider a change of diet, for example, a breakfast blender shake, of filet mignon, tobacco, beer, chocolate, mushrooms, and peanuts! Gr, Guru Dev... 3. Astrology advice? Read it on **Yahoo**, with a BIFF, POW, SOCK-O, to the TMO!! Let's make a difference, one daze at a time.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
lol - my mantle is getting crowded! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yep, Power to the people, Right on! Some suggestions for *revolting* behavior, against all things TM: 1. Enter any east facing doorways, sideways, to ensure you are facing SOUTH - Take THAT, Maharishi! 2. Consider a change of diet, for example, a breakfast blender shake, of filet mignon, tobacco, beer, chocolate, mushrooms, and peanuts! Gr, Guru Dev... 3. Astrology advice? Read it on **Yahoo**, with a BIFF, POW, SOCK-O, to the TMO!! Let's make a difference, one daze at a time.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Exactly - Also, instead of wearing the cult-like and conformist, cream-colored suits, favored by the TMO cognoscenti, I have opted instead, for something similar to Raquel Welch's furry ensemble (male version - shows my nippies), in the epic film, One Million Years B.C.. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Might as well piss- off Shavites and Orthodox Jews as well, and add a some grilled onions to that bacon cheese burger. On Saturday, July 26, 2014 11:38 AM, awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yep, Power to the people, Right on! Some suggestions for *revolting* behavior, against all things TM: 1. Enter any east facing doorways, sideways, to ensure you are facing SOUTH - Take THAT, Maharishi! 2. Consider a change of diet, for example, a breakfast blender shake, of filet mignon, tobacco, beer, chocolate, mushrooms, and peanuts! Gr, Guru Dev... 3. Astrology advice? Read it on **Yahoo**, with a BIFF, POW, SOCK-O, to the TMO!! Let's make a difference, one daze at a time.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : lol - my mantle is getting crowded! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yep, Power to the people, Right on! Some suggestions for *revolting* behavior, against all things TM: 1. Enter any east facing doorways, sideways, to ensure you are facing SOUTH - Take THAT, Maharishi! 2. Consider a change of diet, for example, a breakfast blender shake, of filet mignon, tobacco, beer, chocolate, mushrooms, and peanuts! Gr, Guru Dev... 3. Astrology advice? Read it on **Yahoo**, with a BIFF, POW, SOCK-O, to the TMO!! Let's make a difference, one daze at a time.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Exactly - Also, instead of wearing the cult-like and conformist, cream-colored suits, favored by the TMO cognoscenti, I have opted instead, for something similar to Raquel Welch's furry ensemble (male version - shows my nippies), in the epic film, One Million Years B.C.. If you could resemble the male version of this, Mac, I'm all in. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : Might as well piss- off Shavites and Orthodox Jews as well, and add a some grilled onions to that bacon cheese burger. On Saturday, July 26, 2014 11:38 AM, awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yep, Power to the people, Right on! Some suggestions for *revolting* behavior, against all things TM: 1. Enter any east facing doorways, sideways, to ensure you are facing SOUTH - Take THAT, Maharishi! 2. Consider a change of diet, for example, a breakfast blender shake, of filet mignon, tobacco, beer, chocolate, mushrooms, and peanuts! Gr, Guru Dev... 3. Astrology advice? Read it on **Yahoo**, with a BIFF, POW, SOCK-O, to the TMO!! Let's make a difference, one daze at a time.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
On 7/26/2014 11:09 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Now that he's gone, the TMO can never hope to keep its medicine show going when it is looked at in the light of day. But there are some of us who do like to shine the light of truth and common sense onto the lies that back TM. You are doing a good job of keeping MMY's name in the subject line. Without you, nobody would probably even be talking about your Maharishi. Keep up the good work - as they say in Hollywood, There's no bad publicity, especially when the star is already dead. Keep the name alive and keep the money coming in. /How much are the Lurking Reporters paying you to be an informant?/
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Finally! We seem to be getting somewhere. Thank God! So, MJ, I understand now that you see TM as a public scourge that must be addressed. And who else but the public health crusader, Michael Jackson to take on the task, as you seem to have done. But, pray, tell me. Where on scale does TM rate in your estimation? Let's say you have Boko Haram on one end, Miley Cyrus on the other, and animal testing somewhere in the middle. Where does TM fit in? Or maybe tobacco. Would you put TM in a higher or lower ranking than tobacco use? Feel free to include chewing tobacco in your analysis. Are you shooting for a warning label on any advertising for TM? TM may not lead to enlightenment is three to five years You may still continue to have personal issues you need to work on, even after prolonged practice of TM Something along these lines? At any rate Michael, good luck with your new endeavor. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : And yet its ok for the TMO to rave on endlessly about how fabulous and without blemish TM is when we all know differently? Some of us feel that exposure of hypocrisy and activities including solicitation to meditate that does actual harm in the context of what has become a bona fide cult is a positive thing for our society at large. Unfortunately since so many of the joe and jane doe's of our society look no farther than Oh Jennifer Anniston is a TM'er! TM must be god! and the celebrity driven lies the David Lynch promotes, the real info about TM from people like Gina Catena is marginalized. But in case you haven't noticed, TM has STILL not become a common practice among the world's population. The reason? The claims for just TM alone, not to mention all the adjunct programs are unrealistic and unsustainable. The outrageous claims that Marshy made that have become dogma amongst TM'ers were made from Marshy's hubris and his confidence that his followers were so stupid and locked into his vibe that they would follow him and give him money no matter what he claimed. Now that he's gone, the TMO can never hope to keep its medicine show going when it is looked at in the light of day. But there are some of us who do like to shine the light of truth and common sense onto the lies that back TM. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Xeno, thank you for taking the time to reply. As much as I love logic and Mr. Spock, in terms of considering what someone says or writes, I tend to go more by how someone's energy feels to me. I notice that I tend to enjoy more settled expressions, especially if they're positive. But also enjoy dry wit and commentary. I've come to the conclusion that online relationships and communities are uncharted territory for most of us. So I take everything presented here with a grain of salt. I think it's silly for people to comment on the TMO, etc. when they haven't been around it for decades! I also think that ragging on anyone and anything over and over is an indication that a person has unresolved childhood issues and has found a safe scapegoat. I could be wrong. And if I am, I'm sure life will straighten me out. Eventually (-: On Friday, July 25, 2014 1:22 PM, anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Share, But logically, this is incorrect. While psychologically one might doubt a person's statement because of his/her known character and reliability, the truth of a statement made by someone can only logically be determined if it corresponds to an actual fact. The fact the person is a scoundrel and liar does not prove a statement is false. This is the classic ad hominem argument, where you attack the character of the source of the statement to supposedly prove a statement is false. Except this does not prove the statement false. It may make you assume the statement is false, but an assumption is not a fact. It is an emotional misdirection, classically used by politicians all the time. The reverse of this argument is pro hominem, 'argument for the man' in which one supposes a statement is true because so-and-so made it. It is equally invalid. That Maharishi was something of a scoundrel seems fairly well established, but the evidence is from my point of view largely circumstantial. It has psychological weight but further investigation, which I certainly will not carry out, would be needed to substantiate it. That similar things occurred with figures in the movement that I was more familiar with adds to that psychological weight and indicates a certain pattern of behaviour within the upper echelons of the movement that
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
I was being somewhat facetious in my commentary on the origins of so-called vedic wisdom, but I bet I am not far off the mark From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger... On Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I'll try to keep that in mind Michael. But, when you go on record saying certain things, then you might be called upon to back them up. Whether you do, or not, is a different matter. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that's your projection on my role here, its not mine. I have no role on FFL - I'm just here. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Hey, it helps to know how you view things. So, since you don't buy in to any of this stuff, your role here is to just point out the idiocy of people who like to discuss such issues, or share their experiences, which you evidently believe have no credence? Just askin' I mean, it is a rather funny use of one's time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger... On Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I'll try to keep that in mind Michael. But, when you go on record saying certain things, then you might be called upon to back them up. Whether you do, or not, is a different matter. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that's your projection on my role here, its not mine. I have no role on FFL - I'm just here. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Hey, it helps to know how you view things. So, since you don't buy in to any of this stuff, your role here is to just point out the idiocy of people who like to discuss such issues, or share their experiences, which you evidently believe have no credence? Just askin' I mean, it is a rather funny use of one's time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others [1 Attachment]
Steve's point is a good one - How's that working for you? There are several here, who take great delight, and are very conscientious, about pointing out what they consider flaws in Maharishi's system of teaching meditation, and his considerable comments on spiritual growth. There is nothing wrong with being critical, and calling bullshit, when it is apparent, but the process only works favorably, if the same scrutiny is applied to the individual making the judgments, and doing the nit-picking. In other words, a person's credibility, in making these ongoing negative assessments about Maharishi's system, is only solid, if that same critical eye is turned on the person, by his or herself. If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Turn a critical eye, and voice all of that, about Maharishi's system, over and over and over again. However, if there are deep needs of the heart going unfulfilled, or personal domains that need work, better to spend time working those out, vs. this endless diatribe, against all things Maharishi. Otherwise it looks like a bad day at work, led to kicking the dog, at home, over and over and over again, if you catch my drift. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was being somewhat facetious in my commentary on the origins of so-called vedic wisdom, but I bet I am not far off the mark From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re:
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
On 7/24/2014 12:04 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. This sounds suspiciously like something Barry would write and has written and posted here before. I guess it goes without saying that a reference to a higher or a lower state of consciousness is not to be taken literally. If metaphysical notions were taken at face value, then we could all believe that Barry was a witness to levitation and MJ was a fine baker. Of course there's no higher or lower consciousness - it's just a saying for people so they can relate to the idea of an altered consciousness. For nerds like MJ and big egos like Barry, it sounds pretty impressive to to say that all consciousness is one, but it's not really a very deep rebuttal. LoL! As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. *From:* steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. *From:* awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was being somewhat facetious in my commentary on the origins of so-called vedic wisdom, but I bet I am not far off the mark Actually, I think your description is funny and you are probably not far off the mark in some cases. How many women through the ages got the benefit of sitting on their sacred asses gathering disciples around them to pontificate on all things unprovable and spiritual? The answer is, not many; they were too busy having babies, scrubbing laundry in the Ganges and otherwise pounding out the chapati's. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger...
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger...
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Michael, IOW, when you were bragging about how you talked a woman out of sending her child to a school that allows TM, you weren't on your mission?! You were just jesting?! Ha! On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:15 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger... On Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I'll try to keep that in mind Michael. But, when you go on record saying certain things, then you might be called upon to back them up. Whether you do, or not, is a different matter. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that's your projection on my role here, its not mine. I have no role on FFL - I'm just here. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Hey, it helps to know how you view things. So, since you don't buy in to any of this stuff, your role here is to just point out the idiocy of people who like to discuss such issues, or share their experiences, which you evidently believe have no credence? Just askin' I mean, it is a rather funny use of one's time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Fleetwood, this is imo beautifully articulated. Thanks... On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:21 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: [Attachment(s) from fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] included below] Steve's point is a good one - How's that working for you? There are several here, who take great delight, and are very conscientious, about pointing out what they consider flaws in Maharishi's system of teaching meditation, and his considerable comments on spiritual growth. There is nothing wrong with being critical, and calling bullshit, when it is apparent, but the process only works favorably, if the same scrutiny is applied to the individual making the judgments, and doing the nit-picking. In other words, a person's credibility, in making these ongoing negative assessments about Maharishi's system, is only solid, if that same critical eye is turned on the person, by his or herself. If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Turn a critical eye, and voice all of that, about Maharishi's system, over and over and over again. However, if there are deep needs of the heart going unfulfilled, or personal domains that need work, better to spend time working those out, vs. this endless diatribe, against all things Maharishi. Otherwise it looks like a bad day at work, led to kicking the dog, at home, over and over and over again, if you catch my drift. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was being somewhat facetious in my commentary on the origins of so-called vedic wisdom, but I bet I am not far off the mark From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen,
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
A - I wasn't bragging. B - Josh made his own decision when he wisely decided not to go to MUM, but I did have the conversation and a few follow up e-mails with him and his mother. They had already been to Visitor's Weekend and when I expressed great surprise that they knew nothing about the TM rajas, I filled them in. That was the point at which Josh began to have great doubts about the Movement. I think watching David Wants to Fly Sealed the deal for him. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, IOW, when you were bragging about how you talked a woman out of sending her child to a school that allows TM, you weren't on your mission?! You were just jesting?! Ha! On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:15 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger... On Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I'll try to keep that in mind Michael. But, when you go on record saying certain things, then you might be called upon to back them up. Whether you do, or not, is a different matter. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that's your projection on my role here, its not mine. I have no role on FFL - I'm just here. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Hey, it helps to know how you view things. So, since you don't buy in to any of this stuff, your role here is to just point out the idiocy of people who like to discuss such issues, or share their experiences, which you evidently believe have no credence? Just askin' I mean, it is a rather funny use of one's time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Well said Doc Fleet Mac - and it pretty much describes me, so... From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Fleetwood, this is imo beautifully articulated. Thanks... On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:21 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: [Attachment(s) from fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] included below] Steve's point is a good one - How's that working for you? There are several here, who take great delight, and are very conscientious, about pointing out what they consider flaws in Maharishi's system of teaching meditation, and his considerable comments on spiritual growth. There is nothing wrong with being critical, and calling bullshit, when it is apparent, but the process only works favorably, if the same scrutiny is applied to the individual making the judgments, and doing the nit-picking. In other words, a person's credibility, in making these ongoing negative assessments about Maharishi's system, is only solid, if that same critical eye is turned on the person, by his or herself. If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Turn a critical eye, and voice all of that, about Maharishi's system, over and over and over again. However, if there are deep needs of the heart going unfulfilled, or personal domains that need work, better to spend time working those out, vs. this endless diatribe, against all things Maharishi. Otherwise it looks like a bad day at work, led to kicking the dog, at home, over and over and over again, if you catch my drift. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was being somewhat facetious in my commentary on the origins of so-called vedic wisdom, but I bet I am not far off the mark From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Ok, MJ, but my main point is that a few times you've talked about your posting here as part of your mission and you sounded quite serious, quite different from what you wrote to Steve about just being here on FFL without a role. On Friday, July 25, 2014 9:53 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: A - I wasn't bragging. B - Josh made his own decision when he wisely decided not to go to MUM, but I did have the conversation and a few follow up e-mails with him and his mother. They had already been to Visitor's Weekend and when I expressed great surprise that they knew nothing about the TM rajas, I filled them in. That was the point at which Josh began to have great doubts about the Movement. I think watching David Wants to Fly Sealed the deal for him. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, IOW, when you were bragging about how you talked a woman out of sending her child to a school that allows TM, you weren't on your mission?! You were just jesting?! Ha! On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:15 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger... On Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I'll try to keep that in mind Michael. But, when you go on record saying certain things, then you might be called upon to back them up. Whether you do, or not, is a different matter. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that's your projection on my role here, its not mine. I have no role on FFL - I'm just here. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Hey, it helps to know how you view things. So, since you don't buy in to any of this stuff, your role here is to just point out the idiocy of people who like to discuss such issues, or share their experiences, which you evidently believe have no credence? Just askin' I mean, it is a rather funny use of one's time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. Ah, but this is their choice, not to be ensnared, but to follow and believe in what they do. That is their right, their journey and, for all anyone one knows, the best thing for them. As much as you want to warn people and make them come to believe what you believe it will probably not happen and probably shouldn't. There is no more MMY to support and give money to. The Movement is in a never-ending transition just like everything else. The past is the past and the future is unknown. Let Nabby and Buck have their beliefs and their lives to live as they will. I can think of far worse things to believe in and to support. The TM Movement is a very small fry indeed. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Thanks! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, this is imo beautifully articulated. Thanks... On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:21 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: [Attachment(s) https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch#TopText from fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] included below] Steve's point is a good one - How's that working for you? There are several here, who take great delight, and are very conscientious, about pointing out what they consider flaws in Maharishi's system of teaching meditation, and his considerable comments on spiritual growth. There is nothing wrong with being critical, and calling bullshit, when it is apparent, but the process only works favorably, if the same scrutiny is applied to the individual making the judgments, and doing the nit-picking. In other words, a person's credibility, in making these ongoing negative assessments about Maharishi's system, is only solid, if that same critical eye is turned on the person, by his or herself. If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Turn a critical eye, and voice all of that, about Maharishi's system, over and over and over again. However, if there are deep needs of the heart going unfulfilled, or personal domains that need work, better to spend time working those out, vs. this endless diatribe, against all things Maharishi. Otherwise it looks like a bad day at work, led to kicking the dog, at home, over and over and over again, if you catch my drift. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was being somewhat facetious in my commentary on the origins of so-called vedic wisdom, but I bet I am not far off the mark From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Damn the torpedoes, and full speed ahead!!! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Well said Doc Fleet Mac - and it pretty much describes me, so... From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Fleetwood, this is imo beautifully articulated. Thanks... On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:21 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: [Attachment(s) https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch#TopText from fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] included below] Steve's point is a good one - How's that working for you? There are several here, who take great delight, and are very conscientious, about pointing out what they consider flaws in Maharishi's system of teaching meditation, and his considerable comments on spiritual growth. There is nothing wrong with being critical, and calling bullshit, when it is apparent, but the process only works favorably, if the same scrutiny is applied to the individual making the judgments, and doing the nit-picking. In other words, a person's credibility, in making these ongoing negative assessments about Maharishi's system, is only solid, if that same critical eye is turned on the person, by his or herself. If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Turn a critical eye, and voice all of that, about Maharishi's system, over and over and over again. However, if there are deep needs of the heart going unfulfilled, or personal domains that need work, better to spend time working those out, vs. this endless diatribe, against all things Maharishi. Otherwise it looks like a bad day at work, led to kicking the dog, at home, over and over and over again, if you catch my drift. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was being somewhat facetious in my commentary on the origins of so-called vedic wisdom, but I bet I am not far off the mark From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
You are right - you have changed my life. I shall now have as my mission the task of telling you that you are handling your horses incorrectly. Thanks for expanding my world!!! I am so happy now! From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. Ah, but this is their choice, not to be ensnared, but to follow and believe in what they do. That is their right, their journey and, for all anyone one knows, the best thing for them. As much as you want to warn people and make them come to believe what you believe it will probably not happen and probably shouldn't. There is no more MMY to support and give money to. The Movement is in a never-ending transition just like everything else. The past is the past and the future is unknown. Let Nabby and Buck have their beliefs and their lives to live as they will. I can think of far worse things to believe in and to support. The TM Movement is a very small fry indeed. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
More like damn the Movement and full speed ahead!!! Ha ha! Just couldn't resist that one! From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Damn the torpedoes, and full speed ahead!!! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Well said Doc Fleet Mac - and it pretty much describes me, so... From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Fleetwood, this is imo beautifully articulated. Thanks... On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:21 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: [Attachment(s) from fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] included below] Steve's point is a good one - How's that working for you? There are several here, who take great delight, and are very conscientious, about pointing out what they consider flaws in Maharishi's system of teaching meditation, and his considerable comments on spiritual growth. There is nothing wrong with being critical, and calling bullshit, when it is apparent, but the process only works favorably, if the same scrutiny is applied to the individual making the judgments, and doing the nit-picking. In other words, a person's credibility, in making these ongoing negative assessments about Maharishi's system, is only solid, if that same critical eye is turned on the person, by his or herself. If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Turn a critical eye, and voice all of that, about Maharishi's system, over and over and over again. However, if there are deep needs of the heart going unfulfilled, or personal domains that need work, better to spend time working those out, vs. this endless diatribe, against all things Maharishi. Otherwise it looks like a bad day at work, led to kicking the dog, at home, over and over and over again, if you catch my drift. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was being somewhat facetious in my commentary on the origins of so-called vedic wisdom, but I bet I am not far off the mark From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
But its ok for you to tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing? As far as Buck and Nabby are concerned, I never post anything that I think will change their minds, cuz I know it won't. That has never been part of my thinking. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. Ah, but this is their choice, not to be ensnared, but to follow and believe in what they do. That is their right, their journey and, for all anyone one knows, the best thing for them. As much as you want to warn people and make them come to believe what you believe it will probably not happen and probably shouldn't. There is no more MMY to support and give money to. The Movement is in a never-ending transition just like everything else. The past is the past and the future is unknown. Let Nabby and Buck have their beliefs and their lives to live as they will. I can think of far worse things to believe in and to support. The TM Movement is a very small fry indeed. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Richard J. Williams Most of what MJ has posted is just rumor - things we've all heard before. He doesn't seem to be very big on references or citing any peer-reviewed scientific studies published in any learned journals about the mechanics of consciousness. He doesn't even seem to want to talk about anything except his prurient interest in the perverted sexual encounters of others - which he has mentioned at least a dozen times this month. Go figure. MJ A - I wasn't bragging. B - Josh made his own decision when he wisely decided not to go to MUM, but I did have the conversation and a few follow up e-mails with him and his mother. They had already been to Visitor's Weekend and when I expressed great surprise that they knew nothing about the TM rajas, I filled them in. That was the point at which Josh began to have great doubts about the Movement. I think watching David Wants to Fly Sealed the deal for him. Michael . . . 1. Would you say what you're 'filling them in' with is how you choose to see things from a variety of ways you could see things if you chose? 2. Do you feel you have a tendency to 'vent' and if so, does it make you feel better to vent? Does it help get things off your chest? I'm not being sarcastic with these questions MJ. 3. If you wanted to, would you be able to identify any positive experience coming out of your experience with Maharishi and the TMO? 4. At first did you have a positive experience with TM and the TMO? If so, have you chosen to turn that positive experience into something else? Or do you still have fond memories? What happened bro? Did one thing happen or was it an accumulation of things that made you feel uncomfortable with the way things were with TM and the TMO, at least in how you saw them. Of course you needn't answer these questions on FFL, or even think about them. I remember some of the kitchen staff in the Hotel Chantarella in St. Moritz in '76 seemed to me and a few others to have a sense of the gestapo in the way they treated others, us. Then there was a cleaning girl, Fredrica, who many, all the guys were falling in love by about month three and as a result she had to leave. Fredrica wrote each of us a note before she left thanking each and every one of us, I think 100 in all. Two very different memories of what a person could categorize as the TMO if they chose. I think about the experience as people from different countries, with different intentions, finding themselves together in a hotel with a magical name for a 'moment in time'. Kinda just like FFL. Perhaps we should organize a get-together so we can all meet in person. Coming soon to a theatre near you. ps. I sense you're a bright dude, but I'm not so sure many on this forum would think so based on your FFL way of giving expression to your thoughts and feelings. And yes, you've already told me you don't care what I think. But I still care what you're thinking. Even more what you're feeling which we never feel if we're venting. Is Thomas talking about the Journey to Your True (not the one Richard labeled you with ;-) Calling . . . If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you; if you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you. Gnostic Gospel of Thomas
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Share, But logically, this is incorrect. While psychologically one might doubt a person's statement because of his/her known character and reliability, the truth of a statement made by someone can only logically be determined if it corresponds to an actual fact. The fact the person is a scoundrel and liar does not prove a statement is false. This is the classic ad hominem argument, where you attack the character of the source of the statement to supposedly prove a statement is false. Except this does not prove the statement false. It may make you assume the statement is false, but an assumption is not a fact. It is an emotional misdirection, classically used by politicians all the time. The reverse of this argument is pro hominem, 'argument for the man' in which one supposes a statement is true because so-and-so made it. It is equally invalid. That Maharishi was something of a scoundrel seems fairly well established, but the evidence is from my point of view largely circumstantial. It has psychological weight but further investigation, which I certainly will not carry out, would be needed to substantiate it. That similar things occurred with figures in the movement that I was more familiar with adds to that psychological weight and indicates a certain pattern of behaviour within the upper echelons of the movement that filters down. The real question to answer is how much did these shortcomings curtail the effectiveness of his stated primary mission. If his primary mission was clandestine, say to accumulate money, then probably it did curtail the stated primary mission. As far as it affected me, I do not think it had much effect on any benefits I received, though I made it a point to absolutely minimise expenditures to the movement, making no donations whatever, and only spending for something I felt would be valuable to me, such as residence courses, which I did in the first few years of learning TM. Most of what the movement has offered beyond TM I felt was worthless, such as jyotish, stapatyaveda, most of ayurveda, and a host of similar things which rode in on the coattails of people's fascination with TM. I found TM most useful, though now, in my fifth decade, its utility has worn very thin, it has served its purpose. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Thanks! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, this is imo beautifully articulated. Thanks... On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:21 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: [Attachment(s) https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch#TopText from fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] included below] Steve's point is a good one - How's that working for you? There are several here, who take great delight, and are very conscientious, about pointing out what they consider flaws in Maharishi's system of teaching meditation, and his considerable comments on spiritual growth. There is nothing wrong with being critical, and calling bullshit, when it is apparent, but the process only works favorably, if the same scrutiny is applied to the individual making the judgments, and doing the nit-picking. In other words, a person's credibility, in making these ongoing negative assessments about Maharishi's system, is only solid, if that same critical eye is turned on the person, by his or herself. If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Turn a critical eye, and voice all of that, about Maharishi's system, over and over and over again. However, if there are deep needs of the heart going unfulfilled, or personal domains that need work, better to spend time working those out, vs. this endless diatribe, against all things Maharishi. Otherwise it looks like a bad day at work, led to kicking the dog, at home, over and over and over again, if you catch my drift.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
From: soundofstilln...@ymail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Is Thomas talking about the Journey to Your True (not the one Richard labeled you with ;-) Calling . . . If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you; if you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you. Gnostic Gospel of Thomas I haven't thought about this quote long enough to have an opinion, but it is making me think about it, so thanks. At first glance, I suspect there may be some value in this quote. Another way of saying the same thing, in terms of creativity (or surfing), is Ride the wave, or the wave rides you! :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : But its ok for you to tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing? As far as Buck and Nabby are concerned, I never post anything that I think will change their minds, cuz I know it won't. That has never been part of my thinking. Well, that's a relief. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. Ah, but this is their choice, not to be ensnared, but to follow and believe in what they do. That is their right, their journey and, for all anyone one knows, the best thing for them. As much as you want to warn people and make them come to believe what you believe it will probably not happen and probably shouldn't. There is no more MMY to support and give money to. The Movement is in a never-ending transition just like everything else. The past is the past and the future is unknown. Let Nabby and Buck have their beliefs and their lives to live as they will. I can think of far worse things to believe in and to support. The TM Movement is a very small fry indeed. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are right - you have changed my life. I shall now have as my mission the task of telling you that you are handling your horses incorrectly. Thanks for expanding my world!!! I am so happy now! I've changed your life and I'm right? Sorry, don't understand that. And if you want to tell me I am handling my horses correctly or incorrectly you are welcome to do that; I pay people to teach me all the time - other trainers and clinicians are something I access constantly in order to improve what I do in my sport. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. Ah, but this is their choice, not to be ensnared, but to follow and believe in what they do. That is their right, their journey and, for all anyone one knows, the best thing for them. As much as you want to warn people and make them come to believe what you believe it will probably not happen and probably shouldn't. There is no more MMY to support and give money to. The Movement is in a never-ending transition just like everything else. The past is the past and the future is unknown. Let Nabby and Buck have their beliefs and their lives to live as they will. I can think of far worse things to believe in and to support. The TM Movement is a very small fry indeed. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
TurquoiseBee I haven't thought about this quote long enough to have an opinion, but it is making me think about it, so thanks. At first glance, I suspect there may be some value in this quote. Does it mean that if we have buried our dream(s) our dream will begin to eat away at us from the inside out because the dream that might come in the form of a 'whispering' keeps speaking to us, because it wants to be born and can only be born through us.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
You do bring up a good point about wasting time, posting here Michael. I feel the exact same way about my posts in response to you. You are so far gone up the - TM is bad, MMY is bad, TMO is bad alley, that I also, know I am wasting my time to suggest that you see where in many cases your viewpoint is skewed. And now you will give me your rote reply about what a true believer I am, yada, yada, yada. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Michael, I don't think it's Steve's projection at all! You have stated that you have a mission wrt posting on FFL. But perhaps you see role and mission as two different things! Go figger...
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
oh, let's not forget the simple act of eating a pizza can be a means to torment MMY, wherever he may be. you know boasting about putting mushrooms on a pizza just so you can show him no, no attachment there. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Well said Doc Fleet Mac - and it pretty much describes me, so... From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Fleetwood, this is imo beautifully articulated. Thanks... On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:21 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: [Attachment(s) https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch#TopText from fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] included below] Steve's point is a good one - How's that working for you? There are several here, who take great delight, and are very conscientious, about pointing out what they consider flaws in Maharishi's system of teaching meditation, and his considerable comments on spiritual growth. There is nothing wrong with being critical, and calling bullshit, when it is apparent, but the process only works favorably, if the same scrutiny is applied to the individual making the judgments, and doing the nit-picking. In other words, a person's credibility, in making these ongoing negative assessments about Maharishi's system, is only solid, if that same critical eye is turned on the person, by his or herself. If nothing is found wanting, if there are no deep desires going unfulfilled, if one's life is spent in ever increasing ease and delight, and success, then, sure, have at it. Turn a critical eye, and voice all of that, about Maharishi's system, over and over and over again. However, if there are deep needs of the heart going unfulfilled, or personal domains that need work, better to spend time working those out, vs. this endless diatribe, against all things Maharishi. Otherwise it looks like a bad day at work, led to kicking the dog, at home, over and over and over again, if you catch my drift. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was being somewhat facetious in my commentary on the origins of so-called vedic wisdom, but I bet I am not far off the mark From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Ann was imparting a little wisdom Michael. Sorry it went over your head. You could no more give up this crutch of yours than a baby could give up its blanket. And yes, I do feel like wasting some time right now. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are right - you have changed my life. I shall now have as my mission the task of telling you that you are handling your horses incorrectly. Thanks for expanding my world!!! I am so happy now! From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. Ah, but this is their choice, not to be ensnared, but to follow and believe in what they do. That is their right, their journey and, for all anyone one knows, the best thing for them. As much as you want to warn people and make them come to believe what you believe it will probably not happen and probably shouldn't. There is no more MMY to support and give money to. The Movement is in a never-ending transition just like everything else. The past is the past and the future is unknown. Let Nabby and Buck have their beliefs and their lives to live as they will. I can think of far worse things to believe in and to support. The TM Movement is a very small fry indeed. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
kind of shows the difference of a person who progresses along, and another person who remains stuck in the past. hoo boy, am I on a wasting time binge right now! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are right - you have changed my life. I shall now have as my mission the task of telling you that you are handling your horses incorrectly. Thanks for expanding my world!!! I am so happy now! I've changed your life and I'm right? Sorry, don't understand that. And if you want to tell me I am handling my horses correctly or incorrectly you are welcome to do that; I pay people to teach me all the time - other trainers and clinicians are something I access constantly in order to improve what I do in my sport. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? It was meant to be dramatic, not to actually reflect my views - people like Nabby and Buck are the one wearing self-wrapped TM chains. Ah, but this is their choice, not to be ensnared, but to follow and believe in what they do. That is their right, their journey and, for all anyone one knows, the best thing for them. As much as you want to warn people and make them come to believe what you believe it will probably not happen and probably shouldn't. There is no more MMY to support and give money to. The Movement is in a never-ending transition just like everything else. The past is the past and the future is unknown. Let Nabby and Buck have their beliefs and their lives to live as they will. I can think of far worse things to believe in and to support. The TM Movement is a very small fry indeed. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Share, go back to sleep. Any idea I posted about having a mission or role has been posted in jest. I got a lot of info here on FFL from the old time meditators and ex-meditators which is why I joined. I was coming to terms with my past with TM and was seeking information about Marshy and the Movement. I got it. I also was convinced by Rick's info that Marshy was a sexually active man (thanks Rick!). I also have seen nearly the entire range of TM effect here on FFL, from those who apparently live their lives by some TM baloney like choosing to travel only when the jyotish chart sez so, and believing the crap about vastu veda to those highly intelligent and erudite chaps such as Barry, Curtis and Sal who have freed themselves from their TM chains. I think this is rather dramatic. Am I free from the TM chains too? Or was I ever ensnared, do you think? Do you have to have been a teacher to have been ensnared? An MIU student, a meditator? I continue to post because I like wasting time, which is what telling people like Nabby who are utterly consumed by their illusions that Marshy was a fraud. He'll never believe it, nor will anyone else whose self esteem has to have that anchor of feeling associated with an ultimate superlative. (Marshy was enlightened, a great master, a saint - his knowledge is supreme knowledge and by doing his technique and believing his crap I am cozily snuggled in a blanket of belief that I partake of supreme sattva and I am like him blah blah blah.) I also like it when Sal posts some uniquely Brit stuff that makes me laugh. Sal is a hoot.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the seven steps are pretty nifty in teaching a person how to do it. Yes, I know, not many stay regular with the practice, for whatever reason, but if you feel transcending thought is something valuable, then TM has something to offer, I think. Any thoughts? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Like you ever change your opinions? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others doesn't matter what the whereas is, the resolved that is always the same for MJ. Yes, Michael, blah, blah, blah, Willy Tex. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It was a good post, but I reached an entirely different conclusion, from yours, as I read *all* of what Maharishi had to say - excellent reminder, all of it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Excellent post Dick! it points up very clearly what a liar and huckster Marshy was. To wit: If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. Marshy must have felt quite self satisfied over his good karma that allowed him to have such pleasure with all the good lookin' gals he had sex with. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. This was certainly Marshy's mantra - the way he lied, committed fraud and screwed people over, it had to be his mantra, either that or he was just a bold self indulgent son of a bitch to teach this crap and not behave as if he believed it applied to himself. There are plenty of people who can attest to Marshy's habit of badmouthing in private people who had displeased him, and as Barry has already pointed out, as the Old Fraud aged, he reviled and disparaged people in public, in direct contravention of his own teaching. I am sure however that this part of his little speech: Don't bring bad things, sinful things, wrong things done by others to
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
okay, I guess that is your opinion. I am not sure if that theory is borne out by the actual experience of long term mediators, or those who have this experience. I am no expert on Eastern or Vedic literature, but I believe you can pretty much throw out the whole tenant of the various stages of spiritual growth with this assertion, as it is outlined in these texts. It would also be interesting to see what is the trajectory of experience in the forms of meditation that you practice, or find of value, if there are such. Or maybe you consign the whole bunch to the trash heap. I don't know. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the seven steps are pretty nifty in teaching a person how to do it. Yes, I know, not many stay regular with the practice, for whatever reason, but if you feel transcending thought is something valuable, then TM has something to offer, I think. Any thoughts? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Like you ever change your opinions? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others doesn't matter what the whereas is, the resolved that is always the same for MJ. Yes, Michael, blah, blah, blah, Willy Tex. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It was a good post, but I reached an entirely different conclusion, from yours, as I read *all* of what Maharishi had to say - excellent reminder, all of it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Excellent post Dick! it points up very clearly what a liar and huckster Marshy was. To wit: If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. Marshy must have felt quite self satisfied over his good karma that allowed him to have such pleasure with all the good lookin' gals he had sex with. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. This was certainly Marshy's mantra
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
That is absolutely not true, Michael. The spaciness, and what I call dirty witnessing, often reported by course participants, is an experience of the disconnection of one's true nature, from the mind's common experience. No integration there. It is a beginning experience of witnessing, brought about by an absence of common reference points, allowing the experience of pur e consciousness to emerge, during activity. It has nothing to do with a psychotic break, which is brought about by severe post traumatic stress. Once the divine witness is fully integrated into experience, and accompanies us everywhere, even into deep sleep, it is anything but psychotic. I can appreciate the immaturity of your spiritual experiences, but to make such a blanket statement that witnessing is synonymous with psychosis is a damned irresponsible, and ridiculous thing to say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the seven steps are pretty nifty in teaching a person how to do it. Yes, I know, not many stay regular with the practice, for whatever reason, but if you feel transcending thought is something valuable, then TM has something to offer, I think. Any thoughts? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Like you ever change your opinions? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others doesn't matter what the whereas is, the resolved that is always the same for MJ. Yes, Michael, blah, blah, blah, Willy Tex. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It was a good post, but I reached an entirely different conclusion, from yours, as I read *all* of what Maharishi had to say - excellent reminder, all of it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Excellent post Dick! it points up very clearly what a liar and huckster Marshy was. To wit: If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
well, obviously if you believe in what M taught then you believe it whole cloth (at least some people do) those who study such things, psychologist and head shrinkers and the like have said the state of witnessing and transcending that meditators (including TM'ers) have described is a state of disassociation. I shan't argue with them. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others okay, I guess that is your opinion. I am not sure if that theory is borne out by the actual experience of long term mediators, or those who have this experience. I am no expert on Eastern or Vedic literature, but I believe you can pretty much throw out the whole tenant of the various stages of spiritual growth with this assertion, as it is outlined in these texts. It would also be interesting to see what is the trajectory of experience in the forms of meditation that you practice, or find of value, if there are such. Or maybe you consign the whole bunch to the trash heap. I don't know. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the seven steps are pretty nifty in teaching a person how to do it. Yes, I know, not many stay regular with the practice, for whatever reason, but if you feel transcending thought is something valuable, then TM has something to offer, I think. Any thoughts? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Like you ever change your opinions? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others doesn't matter what the whereas is, the resolved that is always the same for MJ. Yes, Michael, blah, blah, blah, Willy Tex. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It was a good post, but I reached an entirely
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
I'll let you argue it out with the psychologist and other mental health care professionals who have said it, based on interviews and clients who were and are TM'ers and other kinds of meditators. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others That is absolutely not true, Michael. The spaciness, and what I call dirty witnessing, often reported by course participants, is an experience of the disconnection of one's true nature, from the mind's common experience. No integration there. It is a beginning experience of witnessing, brought about by an absence of common reference points, allowing the experience of pur e consciousness to emerge, during activity. It has nothing to do with a psychotic break, which is brought about by severe post traumatic stress. Once the divine witness is fully integrated into experience, and accompanies us everywhere, even into deep sleep, it is anything but psychotic. I can appreciate the immaturity of your spiritual experiences, but to make such a blanket statement that witnessing is synonymous with psychosis is a damned irresponsible, and ridiculous thing to say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the seven steps are pretty nifty in teaching a person how to do it. Yes, I know, not many stay regular with the practice, for whatever reason, but if you feel transcending thought is something valuable, then TM has something to offer, I think. Any thoughts? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Like you ever change your opinions? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others doesn't matter what the whereas is, the resolved that is always the same for MJ. Yes, Michael, blah, blah, blah, Willy
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
On 7/23/2014 8:25 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: doesn't matter what the whereas is, the resolved that is always the same for MJ. Yes, Michael, blah, blah, blah, Willy Tex. According to MJ everyone who practices TM is in an unhealthy state of mind. So, I wonder how long it takes to break free of an dissociative state without any professional help? A day or two; a year; several years; or maybe even twenty or thirty years or even never. Maybe the length of time to get out of the trance-induction state depends on how long you were transcending. If what MJ and Barry say about TM is accurate, TMers are only in a transcendental state for a few minutes during meditation, in between sleep episodes, so that's probably going to work out to be a few hours over the course of a whole year, if that. So based on MJ's data, it should only take a few minutes to realize that you're in an unhealthy state of mind when you practice TM. The question is, why did it take MJ and Barry over thirty years to wake up to reality - there's no TM and no transcendental state to be in! /It was all in their minds./ Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others [1 Attachment]
On 7/23/2014 9:08 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. Well of course - everyone should practice TM in terms of themselves. So, you're thinking that MMY didn't learn how to meditate from his guru, SBS? You are not even making any sense. Everyone knows that MMY learned how to meditate from SBS. Are you thinking that SBS made up meditation? Sorry, I thought I was dialoging with someone who was at least aware of Indian history. I apologize to everyone on the list for assuming that everyone posting here was aware of the historical facts about MMY and SBS and their meditation practice. Swami Brahmananda Saraswati practicing meditation
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
How arrogant of you. Why would I argue with people who only study the symptoms of mental illness? Another foolish notion, from a tiny little angry mind. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I'll let you argue it out with the psychologist and other mental health care professionals who have said it, based on interviews and clients who were and are TM'ers and other kinds of meditators. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others That is absolutely not true, Michael. The spaciness, and what I call dirty witnessing, often reported by course participants, is an experience of the disconnection of one's true nature, from the mind's common experience. No integration there. It is a beginning experience of witnessing, brought about by an absence of common reference points, allowing the experience of pur e consciousness to emerge, during activity. It has nothing to do with a psychotic break, which is brought about by severe post traumatic stress. Once the divine witness is fully integrated into experience, and accompanies us everywhere, even into deep sleep, it is anything but psychotic. I can appreciate the immaturity of your spiritual experiences, but to make such a blanket statement that witnessing is synonymous with psychosis is a damned irresponsible, and ridiculous thing to say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the seven steps are pretty nifty in teaching a person how to do it. Yes, I know, not many stay regular with the practice, for whatever reason, but if you feel transcending thought is something valuable, then TM has something to offer, I think. Any thoughts? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Like you ever change your opinions? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Such a stupid association. The first time I drove a car, I was afraid. Must have been because cars are bad, and I better not listen to those who say it is a transient experience, that we outgrow, huh, MJ? BS from someone too lazy to know what he is talking about. You call yourself clever for seeking the other side of your particular coin, though it looks awfully childish and presumptuous from those of us who have moved on. Once you are done spouting these reactive, and mentally weak ideas, I look forward again, to your writing about life. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Why should anyone sane (i.e., Michael, Anartaxius, Salyavin, myself, and others) bother to argue with a guy whose entire claim to fame as enlightened is based on how long he's supposedly been experiencing 24/7 dissociation, which psychiatrists consider a symptom of mental illness? We *understand* that such a person might be a little *attached* to what he's come to consider the basis of his self-importance, as Jim obviously is. But for those of us who don't believe that what Maharishi called witnessing connotes anything positive, nothing Jimbo can say can do anything more than demonstrate *how* attached he is to his symptom of mental illness, and *how* strongly he feels that this symptom of mental illness makes him better than others. Waste of time. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others How arrogant of you. Why would I argue with people who only study the symptoms of mental illness? Another foolish notion, from a tiny little angry mind. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I'll let you argue it out with the psychologist and other mental health care professionals who have said it, based on interviews and clients who were and are TM'ers and other kinds of meditators. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others That is absolutely not true, Michael. The spaciness, and what I call dirty witnessing, often reported by course participants, is an experience of the disconnection of one's true nature, from the mind's common experience. No integration there. It is a beginning experience of witnessing, brought about by an absence of common reference points, allowing the experience of pur e consciousness to emerge, during activity. It has nothing to do with a psychotic break, which is brought about by severe post traumatic stress. Once the divine witness is fully integrated into experience, and accompanies us everywhere, even into deep sleep, it is anything but psychotic. I can appreciate the immaturity of your spiritual experiences, but to make such a blanket statement that witnessing is synonymous with psychosis is a damned irresponsible, and ridiculous thing to say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
I don't recall having ever called myself clever. And are you also reviling Ann for her experience that I am commenting on? From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Such a stupid association. The first time I drove a car, I was afraid. Must have been because cars are bad, and I better not listen to those who say it is a transient experience, that we outgrow, huh, MJ? BS from someone too lazy to know what he is talking about. You call yourself clever for seeking the other side of your particular coin, though it looks awfully childish and presumptuous from those of us who have moved on. Once you are done spouting these reactive, and mentally weak ideas, I look forward again, to your writing about life. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
I am glad and impressed that your state of perpetual enlightenment, brought on by years of TM gives you the ability to measure the size of my mind. Maybe they'll put you in the next Avengers movie and Mental Measurer, the guy who can measure minds. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others How arrogant of you. Why would I argue with people who only study the symptoms of mental illness? Another foolish notion, from a tiny little angry mind. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I'll let you argue it out with the psychologist and other mental health care professionals who have said it, based on interviews and clients who were and are TM'ers and other kinds of meditators. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others That is absolutely not true, Michael. The spaciness, and what I call dirty witnessing, often reported by course participants, is an experience of the disconnection of one's true nature, from the mind's common experience. No integration there. It is a beginning experience of witnessing, brought about by an absence of common reference points, allowing the experience of pur e consciousness to emerge, during activity. It has nothing to do with a psychotic break, which is brought about by severe post traumatic stress. Once the divine witness is fully integrated into experience, and accompanies us everywhere, even into deep sleep, it is anything but psychotic. I can appreciate the immaturity of your spiritual experiences, but to make such a blanket statement that witnessing is synonymous with psychosis is a damned irresponsible, and ridiculous thing to say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. Two enthusiastic thumbs up! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
It is sadly funny, to see you argue for your limitations. To the point of calling an experience of higher consciousness, insanity. Actually, your response is already mentioned in the Gita, thousands of years ago, so count yourself repetitious, and unoriginal, at least. Nothing new under the sun, is there? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Why should anyone sane (i.e., Michael, Anartaxius, Salyavin, myself, and others) bother to argue with a guy whose entire claim to fame as enlightened is based on how long he's supposedly been experiencing 24/7 dissociation, which psychiatrists consider a symptom of mental illness? We *understand* that such a person might be a little *attached* to what he's come to consider the basis of his self-importance, as Jim obviously is. But for those of us who don't believe that what Maharishi called witnessing connotes anything positive, nothing Jimbo can say can do anything more than demonstrate *how* attached he is to his symptom of mental illness, and *how* strongly he feels that this symptom of mental illness makes him better than others. Waste of time. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others How arrogant of you. Why would I argue with people who only study the symptoms of mental illness? Another foolish notion, from a tiny little angry mind. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I'll let you argue it out with the psychologist and other mental health care professionals who have said it, based on interviews and clients who were and are TM'ers and other kinds of meditators. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others That is absolutely not true, Michael. The spaciness, and what I call dirty witnessing, often reported by course participants, is an experience of the disconnection of one's true nature, from the mind's common experience. No integration there. It is a beginning experience of witnessing, brought about by an absence of common reference points, allowing the experience of pur e consciousness to emerge, during activity. It has nothing to do with a psychotic break, which is brought about by severe post traumatic stress. Once the divine witness is fully integrated into experience, and accompanies us everywhere, even into deep sleep, it is anything but psychotic. I can appreciate the immaturity of your spiritual experiences, but to make such a blanket statement that witnessing is synonymous with psychosis is a damned irresponsible, and ridiculous thing to say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Steve, most of the professionals in FF HAVE a spiritual life and for quite some time. And even now our professional community is actively creating bridges between the psychological and spiritual domains of life. This project was started by one such professional and has been met with wise and enthusiastic support both on and off campus. On Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:15 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Hey, it helps to know how you view things. So, since you don't buy in to any of this stuff, your role here is to just point out the idiocy of people who like to discuss such issues, or share their experiences, which you evidently believe have no credence? Just askin' I mean, it is a rather funny use of one's time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Jim, I'm going to try to phrase this delicately. You believe that your experience of what you call witnessing makes you better than other people, and enlightened. You have stated as much many times on this forum, and sneered at those you consider lesser than yourself, and bound by their limitations. A psychiatrist, presented with what you call witnessing but which he would call dissociation, might suggest that the *SAME* symptom that you believe qualifies you as enlightened instead qualifies you as mentally ill. Two different interpretations of the same phenomenon. But which of them seems more likely to be correct when the person who claims to be better than others, and enlightened as the result of his repeated dissociation/witnessing experience has a history of having pretended to be a woman for several months on this forum? And then, when caught at it, has refused to even admit that he did it in all the months since. Be honest now...does this behavior strike you as more likely to be enlightenment, or mental illness? Just sayin'... From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others It is sadly funny, to see you argue for your limitations. To the point of calling an experience of higher consciousness, insanity. Actually, your response is already mentioned in the Gita, thousands of years ago, so count yourself repetitious, and unoriginal, at least. Nothing new under the sun, is there? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Why should anyone sane (i.e., Michael, Anartaxius, Salyavin, myself, and others) bother to argue with a guy whose entire claim to fame as enlightened is based on how long he's supposedly been experiencing 24/7 dissociation, which psychiatrists consider a symptom of mental illness? We *understand* that such a person might be a little *attached* to what he's come to consider the basis of his self-importance, as Jim obviously is. But for those of us who don't believe that what Maharishi called witnessing connotes anything positive, nothing Jimbo can say can do anything more than demonstrate *how* attached he is to his symptom of mental illness, and *how* strongly he feels that this symptom of mental illness makes him better than others. Waste of time. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others How arrogant of you. Why would I argue with people who only study the symptoms of mental illness? Another foolish notion, from a tiny little angry mind. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I'll let you argue it out with the psychologist and other mental health care professionals who have said it, based on interviews and clients who were and are TM'ers and other kinds of meditators. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others That is absolutely not true, Michael. The spaciness, and what I call dirty witnessing, often reported by course participants, is an experience of the disconnection of one's true nature, from the mind's common experience. No integration there. It is a beginning experience of witnessing, brought about by an absence of common reference points, allowing the experience of pur e consciousness to emerge, during activity. It has nothing to do with a psychotic break, which is brought about by severe post traumatic stress. Once the divine witness is fully integrated into experience, and accompanies us everywhere, even into deep sleep, it is anything but psychotic. I can appreciate the immaturity of your spiritual experiences, but to make such a blanket statement that witnessing is synonymous with psychosis is a damned irresponsible, and ridiculous thing to say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Lame. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I am glad and impressed that your state of perpetual enlightenment, brought on by years of TM gives you the ability to measure the size of my mind. Maybe they'll put you in the next Avengers movie and Mental Measurer, the guy who can measure minds. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others How arrogant of you. Why would I argue with people who only study the symptoms of mental illness? Another foolish notion, from a tiny little angry mind. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I'll let you argue it out with the psychologist and other mental health care professionals who have said it, based on interviews and clients who were and are TM'ers and other kinds of meditators. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others That is absolutely not true, Michael. The spaciness, and what I call dirty witnessing, often reported by course participants, is an experience of the disconnection of one's true nature, from the mind's common experience. No integration there. It is a beginning experience of witnessing, brought about by an absence of common reference points, allowing the experience of pur e consciousness to emerge, during activity. It has nothing to do with a psychotic break, which is brought about by severe post traumatic stress. Once the divine witness is fully integrated into experience, and accompanies us everywhere, even into deep sleep, it is anything but psychotic. I can appreciate the immaturity of your spiritual experiences, but to make such a blanket statement that witnessing is synonymous with psychosis is a damned irresponsible, and ridiculous thing to say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the seven steps are
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
OK, I agree, you are not clever. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I don't recall having ever called myself clever. And are you also reviling Ann for her experience that I am commenting on? From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Such a stupid association. The first time I drove a car, I was afraid. Must have been because cars are bad, and I better not listen to those who say it is a transient experience, that we outgrow, huh, MJ? BS from someone too lazy to know what he is talking about. You call yourself clever for seeking the other side of your particular coin, though it looks awfully childish and presumptuous from those of us who have moved on. Once you are done spouting these reactive, and mentally weak ideas, I look forward again, to your writing about life. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
oh, you again...nothing to add to my past post - you read it, you got it - quit trying to end run yourself - it is worse than watching a youtube video of a dog chasing his tail. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Jim, I'm going to try to phrase this delicately. You believe that your experience of what you call witnessing makes you better than other people, and enlightened. You have stated as much many times on this forum, and sneered at those you consider lesser than yourself, and bound by their limitations. A psychiatrist, presented with what you call witnessing but which he would call dissociation, might suggest that the *SAME* symptom that you believe qualifies you as enlightened instead qualifies you as mentally ill. Two different interpretations of the same phenomenon. But which of them seems more likely to be correct when the person who claims to be better than others, and enlightened as the result of his repeated dissociation/witnessing experience has a history of having pretended to be a woman for several months on this forum? And then, when caught at it, has refused to even admit that he did it in all the months since. Be honest now...does this behavior strike you as more likely to be enlightenment, or mental illness? Just sayin'... From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others It is sadly funny, to see you argue for your limitations. To the point of calling an experience of higher consciousness, insanity. Actually, your response is already mentioned in the Gita, thousands of years ago, so count yourself repetitious, and unoriginal, at least. Nothing new under the sun, is there? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Why should anyone sane (i.e., Michael, Anartaxius, Salyavin, myself, and others) bother to argue with a guy whose entire claim to fame as enlightened is based on how long he's supposedly been experiencing 24/7 dissociation, which psychiatrists consider a symptom of mental illness? We *understand* that such a person might be a little *attached* to what he's come to consider the basis of his self-importance, as Jim obviously is. But for those of us who don't believe that what Maharishi called witnessing connotes anything positive, nothing Jimbo can say can do anything more than demonstrate *how* attached he is to his symptom of mental illness, and *how* strongly he feels that this symptom of mental illness makes him better than others. Waste of time. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others How arrogant of you. Why would I argue with people who only study the symptoms of mental illness? Another foolish notion, from a tiny little angry mind. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I'll let you argue it out with the psychologist and other mental health care professionals who have said it, based on interviews and clients who were and are TM'ers and other kinds of meditators. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others That is absolutely not true, Michael. The spaciness, and what I call dirty witnessing, often reported by course participants, is an experience of the disconnection of one's true nature, from the mind's common experience. No integration there. It is a beginning experience of witnessing, brought about by an absence of common reference points, allowing the experience of pur e consciousness to emerge, during activity. It has nothing to do with a psychotic break, which is brought about by severe post traumatic stress. Once the divine witness is fully integrated into experience, and accompanies us everywhere, even into deep sleep, it is anything but psychotic. I can appreciate the immaturity of your spiritual experiences, but to make such a blanket statement that witnessing is synonymous with psychosis is a damned irresponsible, and ridiculous thing to say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23,
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
On 7/24/2014 11:13 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Why should anyone sane (i.e., Michael, Anartaxius, Salyavin, myself, and others) bother to argue with a guy whose entire claim to fame as enlightened is based on how long he's supposedly been experiencing 24/7 dissociation, which psychiatrists consider a symptom of mental illness? It looks somebody got confused about the meaning of /dissociation/. Maybe the science writer should read a book, like a dictionary. Go figure. In psychology, the term dissociation describes a wide array of experiences from mild detachment from immediate surroundings to more severe detachment from physical and emotional experience. The major characteristic of all dissociative phenomena involves a detachment from reality, rather than a loss of reality as in psychosis. Dissociative experiences are further characterized by the varied maladaptive mental constructions of an individual's natural imaginative capacity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_%28psychology%29
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
that's your projection on my role here, its not mine. I have no role on FFL - I'm just here. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Hey, it helps to know how you view things. So, since you don't buy in to any of this stuff, your role here is to just point out the idiocy of people who like to discuss such issues, or share their experiences, which you evidently believe have no credence? Just askin' I mean, it is a rather funny use of one's time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Nor would I expect you too, if it supports something you wish to believe. What does it say on the home page here, What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite. ~ Bertrand Russell ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : well, obviously if you believe in what M taught then you believe it whole cloth (at least some people do) those who study such things, psychologist and head shrinkers and the like have said the state of witnessing and transcending that meditators (including TM'ers) have described is a state of disassociation. I shan't argue with them. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others okay, I guess that is your opinion. I am not sure if that theory is borne out by the actual experience of long term mediators, or those who have this experience. I am no expert on Eastern or Vedic literature, but I believe you can pretty much throw out the whole tenant of the various stages of spiritual growth with this assertion, as it is outlined in these texts. It would also be interesting to see what is the trajectory of experience in the forms of meditation that you practice, or find of value, if there are such. Or maybe you consign the whole bunch to the trash heap. I don't know. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the seven steps are pretty nifty in teaching a person how to do it. Yes, I know, not many stay regular with the practice, for whatever reason, but if you feel transcending thought is something valuable, then TM has something to offer, I think. Any thoughts? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Like you ever change your opinions? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others doesn't matter what the whereas
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
that sounds of interest Share. I think the default is to generally keep ones experiences close to the vest. You always run a risk when you go public with them. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, most of the professionals in FF HAVE a spiritual life and for quite some time. And even now our professional community is actively creating bridges between the psychological and spiritual domains of life. This project was started by one such professional and has been met with wise and enthusiastic support both on and off campus. On Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:15 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That has been my experience. I can't say that the dissociative state is something that makes much sense to me. I can see where there might be some objection to the mantra being associated with a Hindu Deity. I can see where someone might be put off by the ceremony, but quieting of the mind, with the resulting lowering of metabolic activity seem to be positive things in my opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
I'll try to keep that in mind Michael. But, when you go on record saying certain things, then you might be called upon to back them up. Whether you do, or not, is a different matter. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that's your projection on my role here, its not mine. I have no role on FFL - I'm just here. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Hey, it helps to know how you view things. So, since you don't buy in to any of this stuff, your role here is to just point out the idiocy of people who like to discuss such issues, or share their experiences, which you evidently believe have no credence? Just askin' I mean, it is a rather funny use of one's time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject:
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
yep - I picture Michael waking up one day, maybe two years from now, sheet marks pressed into his face, suddenly coming to consciousness, after a deep night's sleep, rubbing his eyes, and then, ...oh...fuck...I really WROTE THAT?! ...fuck... PS love ya, MJ - hope you are enjoying the game, as much as I am! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : I know I commented on this before, but going through things again, more leisurely, this is just a too funny analysis by Michael of those who have chosen a different path. God love him. Somehow Michael, you regularly make the exception the rule. And you are always so sure of yourself. Begs the Dr. Phil question, How's that working for you ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : for me, I have dropped the notion of higher states of consciousness - its all one thing, what some refer to as higher (which carries a connotation of lower states of awareness) are just experiences, none higher and none lower. As I have stated here on FFL before, its just a bunch of made up stuff to make people feel higher, mightier and more important. And I have said before that it started with the ancient Indians who were too lazy or socially inept to live in society. They just wanted to laze around all day and contemplate the universe and when they ate some extra special mushrooms or some such, they said 'Hey! This is how it is! This is REAL reality. So when some traveler came along and said What are you sitting around for! Get yer ass up and do something, the self styled rishi would pontificate about real reality and try to get the traveler to follow his new path so as to get friends and corroboration that the rishi's way of looking at the world was the right one. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others I would say your theory makes sense only if you abolish the whole notion of the so called higher states of consciousness I apologize in advance if the spiritual path is not a path for the faint of heart. We've discussed, dark night of the soul experiences here often. Might as well dismiss those as well. And I will tell you, that most professionals have little notion of what might be called the spiritual life. It just doesn't show up in anything they are familiar with. You're on your own with that buddy boy. On the other hand, you do see the phenomenon among people who have bailed from the path, to then revert to trashing the path, in every way, shape and form. You'd think they'd just move on without a big to-do about it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : See? That's what I am talking about - were the experience really an experience of feeling yourself to be the unbounded awareness that supposedly underlies all creation, there would be no fear. But I know a lot of folks who describe similar experiences to the one you had and I think its a pretty good fit for the psychologists assessment of them. But when the TM'ers started having such things happen, Marshy had to make up some pie in the sky story to convince them to stick with him so he had to tell them it was positive. From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : that which people call witnessing is a state of disassociation - ergo, that which TM'ers love to believe is a sign of rising enlightenment is actually a psychotic state of disconnect from reality. I have to agree with you on the disassociation thing. Witnessing is not pleasant. It used to happen randomly to me as a young person, before TM and sometimes after learning TM. Sometimes it was associated with an event that was freaky or scary which would cause me to witness. Other times it would just happen - the first time when I was 10 years old in Switzerland, I remember it clearly and it scared me because it lasted for about an hour. This is not a state that feels good or appears to accomplish anything for the witnesser other than to make one feel distant from oneself. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like this going on for months or even years. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others Oh, okay. My take is that the spiritual path is rigorous, and that transcending offers a respite. That
[FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
7/21-23/14 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others MAHARISHI: Everyone enjoys or suffers in life due to his own karma [action]. Nobody else brings suffering to a man. His own karma brings it. If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. The same friend tomorrow becomes a bad friend, begins to bring pain. He's not responsible for bringing the pain. Our bad karma comes through him and we suffer. He is only the donkey of our action; he's only the carrier, he carries it for us. Whatever belongs to us he brings to us, he delivers; he is just a postman bringing our letter. QUESTION: But for the friend, when he brings harm to us it will be a bad karma for him then? MAHARISHI: He has not become the carrier of our good deeds. Unfortunately, he has become the carrier of our bad deeds. QUESTION: But he will suffer for this doing by him? MAHARISHI: He will suffer for his doing, but I will suffer for my doing. I can't put my suffering onto someone else. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. But it has been exposed to the whole universe. Everyone in the universe knows it, and somehow that will be delivered back to us by all the agencies in the universe knowing or unknowing. If you are committing sin in the room, then you are creating sinful vibrations. And 'sinful vibrations' means wherever they go, they will damage the evolution of that thing. Someone speaks ill of the other and plans to damage him -- a very underneath [sneaky] plan, nothing on the surface. He's damaging the entire creation by his mischief because the agency of thought is just vibration. That is why scriptures forbid us from speaking ill of someone, or damaging someone, doing harm to someone because [even though] apparently we seem to be harming him, eventually we have to be harmed by our own doing of the harm to someone else. To save the doer, the teaching is: Don't do any bad thing to anyone, don't commit sin, go for virtue, help thy neighbor, so that thy[self] may be helped In India there is a proverb: if someone speaks ill of the other, he partakes of his sin. Do we have any such proverb here in the West? COURSE PARTICIPANT: If you call your brother, 'Thou fool', you are in danger of hellfire. MAHARISHI: Yes. That's it. 'Hellfire' means when you call someone a fool, then the vibrations of 'foolery' have been spread in the whole creation, and that 'foolery' is to return back to you from all sides. Because man has that highly evolved nervous system, this great responsibility is unto man and not unto animals -- the responsibility of good and bad deeds, sin and virtue. All this is for man and not for animals because man is in that position to understand how the karma acts, how his action influences the whole creation and how he is then influenced back by the same. One direct result of thinking ill of others is that your mind is captivated by that sin. If someone by mistake or by something has done sin and then you bring that sin in your mind, you make that impression deep by speaking about it to others; and by listening to the remarks [about it] from others you make it deeper still. So you only make deep the impressions in your mind if you speak ill of others. We never criticize, we don't see fault in others. And having seen it we don't bring it on our speech, we don't speak it out. If you have committed a sin, and unfortunately if we have seen it and unfortunately the impression has gone in our mind, we don't make that impression deep by talking about it. Try to do all good that you can. Put all your energy into doing good, but don't put your energy into criticizing the bad of someone. It's a waste of energy. Now when you are meditating, you are bringing that stable status of bliss consciousness in your mind. That is supplementing the state of the mind. At this state, if you keep on bringing in bad things, talking ill of others, and thinking of sin done by others, then you are neutralizing the power you are gaining from the Absolute. When at leisure you sit with your friends, talk good of others. Just talk good of others and don't take interest in listening and talking about something bad done by somebody. It's a very bad habit. Nothing is more elevating than bringing the mind to the absolute Being; and nothing is more damaging than talking about something bad or reflecting on something sinful. Nothing is more damaging than this. Getting to the Transcendent is a direct way to heaven; and speaking ill of someone or thinking bad of someone or reflecting on the sin done by someone is a direct way to hell. One can commit no greater crime than talking ill [of someone] or thinking of something [bad] done by someone. Save yourself from your mind going to the bad things. Do good to the extent you can do, but don't think
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Dick, thank you for demonstrating the selective memory so prevalent in cults. You post something from Maharishi about the harm of speaking ill of others, but you conveniently forget that the person giving this talk called George W. Bush a rakshasa and lashed out at an entire nation, not just speaking ill of the UK, but forbidding his teachers from teaching TM to them at all. To what do you attribute your ability to forget the many, many instances of Maharishi doing exactly what he says not to do? All you need is love and peace - but not in destructive Britain, so maharishi pulls out All you need is love and peace - but not in destructive ... Followers split as 95-year-old guru ends meditation teaching in 'scorpion nation'. View on www.theguardian.com Preview by Yahoo From: Dick Mays dickm...@lisco.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 1:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others 7/21-23/14 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others MAHARISHI: Everyone enjoys or suffers in life due to his own karma [action]. Nobody else brings suffering to a man. His own karma brings it. If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. The same friend tomorrow becomes a bad friend, begins to bring pain. He's not responsible for bringing the pain. Our bad karma comes through him and we suffer. He is only the donkey of our action; he's only the carrier, he carries it for us. Whatever belongs to us he brings to us, he delivers; he is just a postman bringing our letter. QUESTION: But for the friend, when he brings harm to us it will be a bad karma for him then? MAHARISHI: He has not become the carrier of our good deeds. Unfortunately, he has become the carrier of our baddeeds. QUESTION: But he will suffer for this doing by him? MAHARISHI: He will suffer for hisdoing, but I will suffer for mydoing. I can't put my suffering onto someone else. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. But it has been exposed to the whole universe. Everyone in the universe knows it, and somehow that will be delivered back to us by all the agencies in the universe knowing or unknowing. If you are committing sin in the room, then you are creating sinful vibrations. And 'sinful vibrations' means wherever they go, they will damage the evolution of that thing. Someone speaks ill of the other and plans to damage him -- a very underneath [sneaky] plan, nothing on the surface. He's damaging the entire creation by his mischief because the agency of thought is just vibration. That is why scriptures forbid us from speaking ill of someone, or damaging someone, doing harm to someone because [even though] apparently we seem to be harming him, eventually we have to be harmed by our own doing of the harm to someone else. To save the doer, the teaching is: Don't do any bad thing to anyone, don't commit sin, go for virtue, help thy neighbor, so that thy[self] may be helped In India there is a proverb: if someone speaks ill of the other, he partakes of his sin. Do we have any such proverb here in the West? COURSE PARTICIPANT: If you call your brother, 'Thou fool', you are in danger of hellfire. MAHARISHI: Yes. That's it. 'Hellfire' means when you call someone a fool, then the vibrations of 'foolery' have been spread in the whole creation, and that 'foolery' is to return back to you from all sides. Because man has that highly evolved nervous system, this great responsibility is unto man and not unto animals -- the responsibility of good and bad deeds, sin and virtue. All this is for man and not for animals because man is in that position to understand how the karma acts, how his action influences the whole creation and how he is then influenced back by the same. One direct result of thinking ill of others is that your mind is captivated by that sin. If someone by mistake or by something has done sin and then you bring that sin in your mind, you make that impression deep by speaking about it to others; and by listening to the remarks [about it] from others you make it deeper still. So you only make deep the impressions in your mind if you speak ill of others. We never criticize, we don't see fault in others. And having seen it we don't bring it on our speech, we don't speak it out. If you have committed a sin, and unfortunately if we have seen it and unfortunately the impression has gone in our mind, we don't make that impression deep by talking about it. Try to do all good that you can. Put all your energy into doing good, but don't put your energy into criticizing the bad of someone. It's a waste of energy. Now when you are
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
It was a good post, but I reached an entirely different conclusion, from yours, as I read *all* of what Maharishi had to say - excellent reminder, all of it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Excellent post Dick! it points up very clearly what a liar and huckster Marshy was. To wit: If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. Marshy must have felt quite self satisfied over his good karma that allowed him to have such pleasure with all the good lookin' gals he had sex with. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. This was certainly Marshy's mantra - the way he lied, committed fraud and screwed people over, it had to be his mantra, either that or he was just a bold self indulgent son of a bitch to teach this crap and not behave as if he believed it applied to himself. There are plenty of people who can attest to Marshy's habit of badmouthing in private people who had displeased him, and as Barry has already pointed out, as the Old Fraud aged, he reviled and disparaged people in public, in direct contravention of his own teaching. I am sure however that this part of his little speech: Don't bring bad things, sinful things, wrong things done by others to your mind, and don't let that mind be spoiled which is being infused with God Consciousness through Transcendental Meditation. was intended to get his followers to ignore his own blatant sins and moral transgressions. What a forward thinking fellow he was! From: Dick Mays dickmays@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others 7/21-23/14 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others MAHARISHI: Everyone enjoys or suffers in life due to his own karma [action]. Nobody else brings suffering to a man. His own karma brings it. If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. The same friend tomorrow becomes a bad friend, begins to bring pain. He's not responsible for bringing the pain. Our bad karma comes through him and we suffer. He is only the donkey of our action; he's only the carrier, he carries it for us. Whatever belongs to us he brings to us, he delivers; he is just a postman bringing our letter. QUESTION: But for the friend, when he brings harm to us it will be a bad karma for him then? MAHARISHI: He has not become the carrier of our good deeds. Unfortunately, he has become the carrier of our bad deeds. QUESTION: But he will suffer for this doing by him? MAHARISHI: He will suffer for his doing, but I will suffer for my doing. I can't put my suffering onto someone else. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. But it has been exposed to the whole universe. Everyone in the universe knows it, and somehow that will be delivered back to us by all the agencies in the universe knowing or unknowing. If you are committing sin in the room, then you are creating sinful vibrations. And 'sinful vibrations' means wherever they go, they will damage the evolution of that thing. Someone speaks ill of the other and plans to damage him -- a very underneath [sneaky] plan, nothing on the surface. He's damaging the entire creation by his mischief because the agency of thought is just vibration. That is why scriptures forbid us from speaking ill of someone, or damaging someone, doing harm to someone because [even though] apparently we seem to be harming him, eventually we have to be harmed by our own doing of the harm to someone else. To save the doer, the teaching is: Don't do any bad thing to anyone, don't commit sin, go for virtue, help thy neighbor, so that thy[self] may be helped In India there is a proverb: if someone speaks ill of the other, he partakes of his sin. Do we have any such proverb here in the West? (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Fleetwood, even contemporary sciences, such as neuroscience support the idea that negative thoughts give rise to harmful chemicals in our body and brain. It's a no brainer (-: On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:56 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It was a good post, but I reached an entirely different conclusion, from yours, as I read *all* of what Maharishi had to say - excellent reminder, all of it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Excellent post Dick! it points up very clearly what a liar and huckster Marshy was. To wit: If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. Marshy must have felt quite self satisfied over his good karma that allowed him to have such pleasure with all the good lookin' gals he had sex with. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. This was certainly Marshy's mantra - the way he lied, committed fraud and screwed people over, it had to be his mantra, either that or he was just a bold self indulgent son of a bitch to teach this crap and not behave as if he believed it applied to himself. There are plenty of people who can attest to Marshy's habit of badmouthing in private people who had displeased him, and as Barry has already pointed out, as the Old Fraud aged, he reviled and disparaged people in public, in direct contravention of his own teaching. I am sure however that this part of his little speech: Don't bring bad things, sinful things, wrong things done by others to your mind, and don't let that mind be spoiled which is being infused with God Consciousness through Transcendental Meditation. was intended to get his followers to ignore his own blatant sins and moral transgressions. What a forward thinking fellow he was! From: Dick Mays dickmays@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others 7/21-23/14 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others MAHARISHI: Everyone enjoys or suffers in life due to his own karma [action]. Nobody else brings suffering to a man. His own karma brings it. If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. The same friend tomorrow becomes a bad friend, begins to bring pain. He's not responsible for bringing the pain. Our bad karma comes through him and we suffer. He is only the donkey of our action; he's only the carrier, he carries it for us. Whatever belongs to us he brings to us, he delivers; he is just a postman bringing our letter. QUESTION: But for the friend, when he brings harm to us it will be a bad karma for him then? MAHARISHI: He has not become the carrier of our good deeds. Unfortunately, he has become the carrier of our baddeeds. QUESTION: But he will suffer for this doing by him? MAHARISHI: He will suffer for hisdoing, but I will suffer for mydoing. I can't put my suffering onto someone else. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. But it has been exposed to the whole universe. Everyone in the universe knows it, and somehow that will be delivered back to us by all the agencies in the universe knowing or unknowing. If you are committing sin in the room, then you are creating sinful vibrations. And 'sinful vibrations' means wherever they go, they will damage the evolution of that thing. Someone speaks ill of the other and plans to damage him -- a very underneath [sneaky] plan, nothing on the surface. He's damaging the entire creation by his mischief because the agency of thought is just vibration. That is why scriptures forbid us from speaking ill of someone, or damaging someone, doing harm to someone because [even though] apparently we seem to be harming him, eventually we have to be harmed by our own doing of the harm to someone else. To save the doer, the teaching is: Don't do any bad thing to anyone, don't commit sin, go for virtue, help thy neighbor, so that thy[self] may be helped In India there is a proverb: if someone speaks ill of the other, he partakes of his sin. Do we have any such proverb here in the West? (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
TurquoiseB wrote : Dick, thank you for demonstrating the selective memory so prevalent in cults. You post something from Maharishi about the harm of speaking ill of others, but you conveniently forget that the person giving this talk called George W. Bush a rakshasa and lashed out at an entire nation, not just speaking ill of the UK, but forbidding his teachers from teaching TM to them at all. To what do you attribute your ability to forget the many, many instances of Maharishi doing exactly what he says not to do? On 07/23/2014 06:49 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Um, how about the possibility that at 95 years of age MMY was in failing health and mental acuity? Or do you think he was immortal and infallible? On the other hand, you don't have that excuse... On 7/23/2014 11:09 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote: The statement by MMY is from 1962 (as mentioned at the bottom of the excerpt). And the context suggests not using speaking ill of others to damage them. But calling Bush a rakshasa is earned criticism which is different. And for those who don't know rakshasa in contemporary Hindi not only refers to mythical creatures but is applied to wicked people. If MMY did say this, which I doubt, he was obviously in a trance-induction state and under the influence of the liberals at Vlodrop, Netherlands. He was probably in his nineties if he actually said this. Everyone knows that the term rakshasa is a derogatory word used by the Caucasian Aryans when they invaded South Asia and tried to subjugate the native dark-skinned inhabitants, calling them nigger devils. What would be strange, if this story is true, is that MMY himself was a native inhabitant of India from a line of Dravidian scribes, according to Osho. Go figure. Of course maybe Dubya would have been happier being a Greenwich Village artist than participating in the family business. And the world also might have been happier if he had done that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
On 7/23/2014 12:51 PM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Of course you have the old saying, do as I say, not as I do.And then there is for all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. It kind of funny in a weird way. Dick Mays posts a talk by MMY about the karma you accrue if you speak ill of others, so Barry speaks ill of MMY, yet, Barry is the True Believer in karma. Go figure. So, I wonder we what will happen to Barry tonight - maybe he should stay inside where it's safe - don't go to the bar in the morning, Barry. Go figure. On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:49 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Dick, thank you for demonstrating the selective memory so prevalent in cults. You post something from Maharishi about the harm of speaking ill of others, but you conveniently forget that the person giving this talk called George W. Bush a rakshasa and lashed out at an entire nation, not just speaking ill of the UK, but forbidding his teachers from teaching TM to them at all. To what do you attribute your ability to forget the many, many instances of Maharishi doing exactly what he says not to do?
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
doesn't matter what the whereas is, the resolved that is always the same for MJ. Yes, Michael, blah, blah, blah, Willy Tex. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It was a good post, but I reached an entirely different conclusion, from yours, as I read *all* of what Maharishi had to say - excellent reminder, all of it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Excellent post Dick! it points up very clearly what a liar and huckster Marshy was. To wit: If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. Marshy must have felt quite self satisfied over his good karma that allowed him to have such pleasure with all the good lookin' gals he had sex with. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. This was certainly Marshy's mantra - the way he lied, committed fraud and screwed people over, it had to be his mantra, either that or he was just a bold self indulgent son of a bitch to teach this crap and not behave as if he believed it applied to himself. There are plenty of people who can attest to Marshy's habit of badmouthing in private people who had displeased him, and as Barry has already pointed out, as the Old Fraud aged, he reviled and disparaged people in public, in direct contravention of his own teaching. I am sure however that this part of his little speech: Don't bring bad things, sinful things, wrong things done by others to your mind, and don't let that mind be spoiled which is being infused with God Consciousness through Transcendental Meditation. was intended to get his followers to ignore his own blatant sins and moral transgressions. What a forward thinking fellow he was! From: Dick Mays dickmays@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others 7/21-23/14 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others MAHARISHI: Everyone enjoys or suffers in life due to his own karma [action]. Nobody else brings suffering to a man. His own karma brings it. If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. The same friend tomorrow becomes a bad friend, begins to bring pain. He's not responsible for bringing the pain. Our bad karma comes through him and we suffer. He is only the donkey of our action; he's only the carrier, he carries it for us. Whatever belongs to us he brings to us, he delivers; he is just a postman bringing our letter. QUESTION: But for the friend, when he brings harm to us it will be a bad karma for him then? MAHARISHI: He has not become the carrier of our good deeds. Unfortunately, he has become the carrier of our bad deeds. QUESTION: But he will suffer for this doing by him? MAHARISHI: He will suffer for his doing, but I will suffer for my doing. I can't put my suffering onto someone else. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. But it has been exposed to the whole universe. Everyone in the universe knows it, and somehow that will be delivered back to us by all the agencies in the universe knowing or unknowing. If you are committing sin in the room, then you are creating sinful vibrations. And 'sinful vibrations' means wherever they go, they will damage the evolution of that thing. Someone speaks ill of the other and plans to damage him -- a very underneath [sneaky] plan, nothing on the surface. He's damaging the entire creation by his mischief because the agency of thought is just vibration. That is why scriptures forbid us from speaking ill of someone, or damaging someone, doing harm to someone because [even though] apparently we seem to be harming him, eventually we have to be harmed by our own doing of the harm to someone else. To save the doer, the teaching is: Don't do any bad thing to anyone, don't commit sin, go for virtue, help thy neighbor, so that thy[self] may be helped In India there is a proverb: if someone speaks ill of the other, he partakes of his sin. Do we have any such proverb here in the West? (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
Like you ever change your opinions? From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others doesn't matter what the whereas is, the resolved that is always the same for MJ. Yes, Michael, blah, blah, blah, Willy Tex. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It was a good post, but I reached an entirely different conclusion, from yours, as I read *all* of what Maharishi had to say - excellent reminder, all of it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Excellent post Dick! it points up very clearly what a liar and huckster Marshy was. To wit: If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. Marshy must have felt quite self satisfied over his good karma that allowed him to have such pleasure with all the good lookin' gals he had sex with. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. This was certainly Marshy's mantra - the way he lied, committed fraud and screwed people over, it had to be his mantra, either that or he was just a bold self indulgent son of a bitch to teach this crap and not behave as if he believed it applied to himself. There are plenty of people who can attest to Marshy's habit of badmouthing in private people who had displeased him, and as Barry has already pointed out, as the Old Fraud aged, he reviled and disparaged people in public, in direct contravention of his own teaching. I am sure however that this part of his little speech: Don't bring bad things, sinful things, wrong things done by others to your mind, and don't let that mind be spoiled which is being infused with God Consciousness through Transcendental Meditation. was intended to get his followers to ignore his own blatant sins and moral transgressions. What a forward thinking fellow he was! From: Dick Mays dickmays@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others 7/21-23/14 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others MAHARISHI: Everyone enjoys or suffers in life due to his own karma [action]. Nobody else brings suffering to a man. His own karma brings it. If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. The same friend tomorrow becomes a bad friend, begins to bring pain. He's not responsible for bringing the pain. Our bad karma comes through him and we suffer. He is only the donkey of our action; he's only the carrier, he carries it for us. Whatever belongs to us he brings to us, he delivers; he is just a postman bringing our letter. QUESTION: But for the friend, when he brings harm to us it will be a bad karma for him then? MAHARISHI: He has not become the carrier of our good deeds. Unfortunately, he has become the carrier of our baddeeds. QUESTION: But he will suffer for this doing by him? MAHARISHI: He will suffer for hisdoing, but I will suffer for mydoing. I can't put my suffering onto someone else. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. But it has been exposed to the whole universe. Everyone in the universe knows it, and somehow that will be delivered back to us by all the agencies in the universe knowing or unknowing. If you are committing sin in the room, then you are creating sinful vibrations. And 'sinful vibrations' means wherever they go, they will damage the evolution of that thing. Someone speaks ill of the other and plans to damage him -- a very underneath [sneaky] plan, nothing on the surface. He's damaging the entire creation by his mischief because the agency of thought is just vibration. That is why scriptures forbid us from speaking ill of someone, or damaging someone, doing harm to someone because [even though] apparently we seem to be harming him, eventually we have to be harmed by our own doing of the harm to someone else. To save the doer, the teaching is: Don't do any bad thing to anyone, don't commit sin, go for virtue, help thy neighbor, so that thy[self] may be helped In India there is a proverb: if someone speaks ill of the other, he partakes of his sin. Do we have any such proverb here in the West? (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the seven steps are pretty nifty in teaching a person how to do it. Yes, I know, not many stay regular with the practice, for whatever reason, but if you feel transcending thought is something valuable, then TM has something to offer, I think. Any thoughts? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Like you ever change your opinions? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others doesn't matter what the whereas is, the resolved that is always the same for MJ. Yes, Michael, blah, blah, blah, Willy Tex. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It was a good post, but I reached an entirely different conclusion, from yours, as I read *all* of what Maharishi had to say - excellent reminder, all of it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Excellent post Dick! it points up very clearly what a liar and huckster Marshy was. To wit: If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. Marshy must have felt quite self satisfied over his good karma that allowed him to have such pleasure with all the good lookin' gals he had sex with. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. This was certainly Marshy's mantra - the way he lied, committed fraud and screwed people over, it had to be his mantra, either that or he was just a bold self indulgent son of a bitch to teach this crap and not behave as if he believed it applied to himself. There are plenty of people who can attest to Marshy's habit of badmouthing in private people who had displeased him, and as Barry has already pointed out, as the Old Fraud aged, he reviled and disparaged people in public, in direct contravention of his own teaching. I am sure however that this part of his little speech: Don't bring bad things, sinful things, wrong things done by others to your mind, and don't let that mind be spoiled which is being infused with God Consciousness through Transcendental Meditation. was intended to get his followers to ignore his own blatant sins and moral transgressions. What a forward thinking fellow he was! From: Dick Mays dickmays@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others 7/21-23/14 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others MAHARISHI: Everyone enjoys or suffers in life due to his own karma [action]. Nobody else brings suffering to a man. His own karma brings it. If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. The same friend tomorrow becomes a bad friend, begins to bring pain. He's not responsible for bringing the pain. Our bad karma comes through him and we suffer. He is only the donkey of our action; he's only the carrier, he carries it for us. Whatever belongs to us he brings to us, he delivers; he is just a postman bringing our letter. QUESTION: But for the friend, when he brings harm to us it will be a bad karma for him then? MAHARISHI: He has not become the carrier of our good deeds. Unfortunately, he has become the carrier of our bad deeds. QUESTION: But he will suffer for this doing by him? MAHARISHI: He will suffer for his doing, but I will suffer for my doing. I can't put my suffering onto someone else. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. But it has been exposed to the whole universe. Everyone in the universe knows it, and somehow that will be
Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others
I personally feel that Marshy made up a lot of his teaching to suit himself and his personal agenda, rather than it being something he learned at Swami Bramananda's feet. I think the kind of transcending TM leads to is that unhealthy dissociative state. It would be interesting perhaps for you to try another kind of meditation. Chopra's Primordial Sound might be a good one, the kind sounds of silence was talking about today. I did it for a number of years. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others as a matter of fact, and it's funny you should bring that up, but I was thinking tonight that I am bending back towards the eastern/Hindu way of thinking actually. That could be for two reasons. 1) I've been having a chance to meditate after work lately. Just the TM part for about 20 minutes, and it has been nice. 2) I think that meditation in general is good. I admit, I am not familiar with any other type of meditation other than TM, but I think for meditation to be effective, there must be some transcending. Are you in agreement with that, Michael? Not being facetious here, really just wondering. And so, is transcending a part of typical meditation techniques? Really, not trying to sound like a doofus, I don't know. But, I've been thinking that TM does offer a means to transcend. That has been my direct experience. Back in the day, I used to transcend deeply. Now, I think I am just too fatigue laden for that to happen. But the technique and the seven steps are pretty nifty in teaching a person how to do it. Yes, I know, not many stay regular with the practice, for whatever reason, but if you feel transcending thought is something valuable, then TM has something to offer, I think. Any thoughts? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Like you ever change your opinions? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others doesn't matter what the whereas is, the resolved that is always the same for MJ. Yes, Michael, blah, blah, blah, Willy Tex. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : It was a good post, but I reached an entirely different conclusion, from yours, as I read *all* of what Maharishi had to say - excellent reminder, all of it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Excellent post Dick! it points up very clearly what a liar and huckster Marshy was. To wit: If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. Marshy must have felt quite self satisfied over his good karma that allowed him to have such pleasure with all the good lookin' gals he had sex with. If I do some sin in this room and no one is here, I think no one has seen it. This was certainly Marshy's mantra - the way he lied, committed fraud and screwed people over, it had to be his mantra, either that or he was just a bold self indulgent son of a bitch to teach this crap and not behave as if he believed it applied to himself. There are plenty of people who can attest to Marshy's habit of badmouthing in private people who had displeased him, and as Barry has already pointed out, as the Old Fraud aged, he reviled and disparaged people in public, in direct contravention of his own teaching. I am sure however that this part of his little speech: Don't bring bad things, sinful things, wrong things done by others to your mind, and don't let that mind be spoiled which is being infused with God Consciousness through Transcendental Meditation. was intended to get his followers to ignore his own blatant sins and moral transgressions. What a forward thinking fellow he was! From: Dick Mays dickmays@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] 7/21-23 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others 7/21-23/14 - Maharishi: A discussion of karma and not speaking ill of others MAHARISHI: Everyone enjoys or suffers in life due to his own karma [action]. Nobody else brings suffering to a man. His own karma brings it. If some friend of yours brings pleasure to you, it's not that he is the cause of pleasure, but some of our good karma is coming through him. The same friend tomorrow becomes a bad friend, begins to bring pain. He's not responsible for bringing the pain. Our bad karma comes
