date:20050706

Dear Shiela:

Can understand your dilemma.  Will Bubba allow you to comb him for fleas??  
If so, use one of the fine-toothed metal flea combs (the plastic ones don't 
work as well) and a bowl of water with a bit of dish detergent to rinse the 
fleas 
from the comb...the surfacants in the detergent will suffocate the fleas.

Other non-toxic things to try are ruffling a bit of garlic powder and/or 
yeast through his fur to make it inhospitable for the fleas.  Garlic ingested 
in 
large quantity over time is said to potentially cause anemia in cats, but a 
small amount is not harmful.  I used to routinely mix garlic in my raw food mix 
along with nutritional yeast for B-vites and fleas were much less of a problem 
when I did.  Then I learned on a holistic website that garlic might be harmful 
for cats and stopped. This year, the fleas have been so bad I have started 
adding garlic to their food again and the situation has improved.  They all 
seem 
to like it and it surely makes the otherwise bland raw food smell delicious.  
You may need to start by adding a tiny bit and then gradually increasing the 
amount.  I throw whole cloves in the mini food processor to chop it finely or 
you can use a garlic press to extract just the jice.

In his book, The Nature of Animal Healing, Dr. Martin Goldstein (holistic 
vet) has a section on fleas and provides enlightenment about those supposedly 
safe commercial flea treatments and the entire rationale of chemically 
assaulting 
the flea problem.  Fleas, like most parasites, tend to afflict hosts whose 
immune systems are less able to repel them. The use of chemicals in our homes 
and on our pets to try and control such pests only serves to further weaken the 
immune system of the pets we are trying to protect.  When dealing with FeLV+ 
kittys whose immune system is already compromised, the use of such chemicals is 
even more risky.

Dr G's recommendations  include:  In all cases, I recommend two natural 
substances: garlic and brewer's yeast.  Both exude odors or tastes that 
discourage 
fleas.  Garlic is as close to a panacea as a natural product can get.  Grate 
or chop a clove or two into each meal, both to combat fleas and for general 
health and longevity.  Add a Tbsp. of brewer's yeast (half that for small dogs 
and cats).  Every day or two, also sprinkle brewer's yeast on your pet's coat, 
working it in with your hands.

Among the many herbal flea preparations that can be useful, I'm partial to 
Earth Animal's Herbal Internal Powder, a powdered mix of natural ingredients 
which includes garlic as well as alfalfa, wormwood, yellowdock and pennyroyal.  
Sprinkle the powder liberally into your pet's food; it smells so good you may 
want to sprinkle it into your own! (I do, especially when cooking pasta.)  
 

You can safely treat carpeting and bedding with boric acid powder (that is 
what eye wash is made from).  It is not toxic...it dessicates (dehydrates) the 
bugs and they die.  That is the active ingredient in many ant/roach 
powders...just make sure there are no other toxic ingredients added.  
FleaBusters markets 
a carpet powder (which Dr. G. also mentions in his book) that just contains 
boric acid as its active ingredient, but it is a bit pricier...a large jug 
(which has lasted me two years) is around $35.  You sprinkle it on the 
carpeting 
and work it in with a brush and then vaccuum up any excess. One application 
lasts about a year.  If you hire Flea Busters to come treat your home, they 
guarantee it to be flea free for a year, and will come back and re-treat at no 
charge if it isn't.  When my daughter was living in S. Calif. she had FBers 
come  
treat her apartment and it was totally flea-free...of course her 3 cats did 
not go outside and she didn't have a dog.  I have had good results with it even 
though I do have some cats who go outside in the daytime and a dog. In the two 
bedrooms where I have adoptable rescues and FeLV+ cats, respectively, that do 
not go out of their rooms, I do not have a flea problem.  In the rest of the 
house, I've had to re-treat more often than once/year to keep them under 
control.

While Dr. G's approach is to help his clients get their pets so healthy 
(through a healthy, natural diet, etc.) that they are resistant to fleas, he 
does 
not take a holier than thou approach to address an existing flea problem where 
a pet is suffering, and in regards to helping break the cycle of an existing 
flea infestation will advise his clients to choose a product containing 
citrus-based d-limonene, the herbal insecticide.  One spray he personally 
uses is 
Quantum's Flea  Tick Repellent which contains the herb erigeron (flea bane), 
as well as rose geranium, which is one of the effective herbal tick repellents. 
 Only in very severe cases would he recommend the use of Front Line or 
Advantage, which he views as two of the more benign brands, but not without 
trepidation.  Dr. G. also advises clients to have their

Re: question bout kittens...for MC

Dear Mary Christine:

You surely get my vote for cat-mom this year!  I would not worry too much 
about the liklihood of a healthy mom cat becoming postive from exposure to 
nursing a positive kitten, but her other kittens might be at some risk.  You 
say the 
kittens are orphans...is it known how their mom died?  Was it due to some 
accident (?) or, since the kits are positive she may have succumbed to FeLV 
which 
means the kittens were born carrying the virus and the liklihood they will 
remain positive is more likely.  According to Dr. Pitcairn, cats are not 
infections and shedding the FeLV virus until they are in the latter stages of 
infection (Stage 4 and beyond) when it has infected the bone marrow.  A 
positive IFA 
correlates well with stage 4 and beyond.  An ELISA test is much more senstive 
and can indicate the very early stages of infection, so is not necessarily a 
good indicator that a cat will remain persistently viremic.  Depending on 
whether or not these kittens already have the virus in their bone marrow, they 
may 
be able to clear the virus given immune support and a healthy diet...and milk 
from a healthy mom cat would certainly qualify in that regard.

It is a difficult situation you are facing, to be sure.  I think if I were in 
your shoes I would want to get the kittens IFA tested and if that is a 
positive result, I would not want to risk exposing the other presumably healthy 
kittens by putting them together.  You might be able to manage it by allowing 
the 
positive kittens to nurse separately from the others, but that would still not 
provide for contact comfort in between nursings.  I had two bottle babies, 
thrown in a dumpster before their eyes were open yet, and I had to feed one of 
them initially on an eye dropper until he gained enough strength to suck on a 
bottle.  I carried them around in a baby pack next to my body and they slept in 
the crook of my arm at night.  To this day (now 11 yrs. old) one of them 
thinks I am his mom and still wants to perch on my shoulder like a canary 
(ouch!). 
 But I only had the two and you have a full house.

I don't know how accepting your mom cats are, or how many kittens each one 
has, but you might be able to take one mom's kittens (if she only has a few) 
and 
rub the scent of another mom on each them and parcel them out with other 
moms, then put the two positives with that mom cat whose kittens are being 
fostered by other moms.  I've never tried this, so have no idea if it is 
feasible.  I 
suppose the most likely way would be to put your energies into getting the + 
kittens to nurse and add some immune support such as Transfer Factor to their 
formula to boost their  immune function and maybe find a stuffed toy cat you 
can put a hot water bottle inside (and rub it with the scent of a mom cat) for 
them to snuggle with.

If the kittens test IFA negative, I would celebrate and go ahead and see if 
one of the other mom cats will accept and nurse them.  I would still supplement 
them with an immune booster such as Transfer Factor which will certainly not 
hurt them and might help them clear the virus which is evidently still in an 
earlier stage.

You've taken on quite a challenge...bless you for trying to give these 
innocent baby kits a chance at life!

Sally in San Jose

Re: Veterinary Questions...for Stephanie

Dear Stephanie:

If you e-mail the info to me, I can pass it on to Dr. Dana Gleason the vet 
who started our local Spay/Neuter project for ferals...I've found her to be 
very 
helpful with my own questions about drugs and dosages in that she realizes we 
who do rescue ferals are not able to take these uncooperative (in most cases) 
patients to a regular vet and afford their fees.  I might be able to get a 
confimation of appropriate dosage for the drugs from her.  Or I can ask her if 
she would be OK with my giving her e-address to you, so you can ask her 
directly.

Have you tried doing a computer search for info on the drugs in question?  
Another source of info would be a medical library, if there is a vet school 
anywhere near you.  Like human doctors with their code of ethics which tends to 
close ranks and discourage doctors from helping you investigate possible abuse 
by one of their peers or get involved, many vets may have the same inclination. 
 Have you requested a copy of TeeCee's records?  Did you keep the empty or 
near-empty containers of the meds given to him?

Do you just want to know, for your own peace of mind (or not)?  I learned 
from my own sad experience with a Vet from Hell who forced me to allow her to 
euthanize a cat by threatening to have him seized by Animal Control if I did 
not 
(and of course every rescuer's worst nightmare is having AC come pay them a 
visit and count noses) that there is little recourse, legally, in dealing with 
a 
vet whose ethics leave much to be desired.  Most states consider cats 
personal property, with a value limited to replacement cost so unless one is 
wealthy enough to afford an attorney's fees regardless of liklihood of 
recovery, or 
your pet is a TV star like Morris, it is a no go.  If you are able to find out 
this vet did try to deliberately harm TeeCee, about all you can really do is 
file a complaint with the state veterinary medical board for review of the 
situation.

Sally in San Jose

Re: Drugs given to TeeCee

Dear Stephanie:

I am not usually able to get pics on my old and ailing computer, and don't 
know how accurately one could tell from a photo as to size of syringe, etc.  Do 
the syringes have no markings on them as to how many cc are in them?? It seems 
odd for a syringe not to have a scale printed on it, but if not, I would try 
to get some syringes that do.  Most syringes come in standard sizes and the 
ones most commonly used with cats are 1 ml, 3ml, and 6 ml.  You could then line 
up the scale on the marked syringe with an unmarked one.

Sally in San Jose

Re: Need advice - kittens...for Susan

Dear Susan:

The fact the kittens tested a faint positive (an ELISA, right?) is probably 
an indication of exposure and some virus present (both the ELISA and IFA 
detect anitgen from replicating virus) but may still be an earlier stage of 
infection so there is a chance with good diet and immune support these kittens 
can 
clear the virus.  A truly false positive on the ELISA would be for viral 
antigen to be detected when none was present.  What is more likely, given the 
sensitivity of the ELISA test which can detect even minute amounts of antigen, 
is 
that faint positive results indicate an early stage of infection, and that 
cats/kittens who initially test postive, then later test negative, were able to 
clear the virus, or, the infection could have become latent.

If the other cats in the foster household are healthy adults, I would not be 
very worried that the kittens may pass the virus to them, but be most 
concerned that the kittens get the best possible diet and immune support to 
help their 
immune system fight off the virus.  Any further assaults, be it emotional, 
environmental or from anything the other cats may bring to the table, to their 
immune system should be minimized.

A negative IFA at this point could confirm an infection has not progressed to 
the point of no return and there is still a good chance to clear it, but 
would also represent the significant stress of a blood draw.  If one has the 
resources, a good strategy is to ask the vet or tech to draw enough blood 
initially 
so that if the ELISA result is positive, then an IFA can then be run to 
confim it as either stage 4 or beyond, or still in stage 1-3.

My advice would be to transition those kittens to a raw, natural diet (or the 
best commercial food possible such as Wellness or Innova, etc.) with good 
immune support supplementation such as Transfer Factor, Vit. C, CoQ10, etc. and 
try to keep their lives as stress-free as possible, which would include no, or 
mininal, vaccines.  Do keep them indoors and away from any cats who go 
outdoors that may bring unwanted pathogens to bear. I would then retest them in 
45-60 
days.   

Here's hoping...

Sally in San Jose

Re: July 5 update on Flavia/for Belinda

Belinda--I'm sorry to hear about yr friend's bad experience. Awful, but it
doesn't surprise me any more. I've used Drs Dodin and Dr Rovner for years
and trust and like them
both. They were at Higgins till recently and have both left (owner is a
jerk-- tell your friend to avoid Dr Humphrey Roberts, the owner of Higgins).
Also tell her to avoid McKillips Animal Hospital, and the Mayfair clinic.)

But tell me where your friend lives and when I get back (22nd) I'll see if I
can help further with nearer clinics. Kerry

Dr Dodin can be contacted at Abell Animal Hospital, 773 631 6727.

Scott Rovner, owner of Roscoe Village Animal Hospital, 3131 N Clybourn
(almost next door to Emergency Clinic) tel 773 549 3131. Problem: his clinic
is very new, and still a work-in-progress, and he may not be available every
day.

Another housecall vet I've not used but that comes very highly recommended
by a close friend who had to have her dog PTS. Dr Alisse Mawrence, 773 575
7387. She does evenings and weekends too. But she can take some time to
respond -- she also works at Chicago Emergency Services.

Doctor Teuber at Higgins, 1705 W. Belmont (Paulina  Belmont), tel: 773 525
0472.  I've only seen her once (yesterday) but i liked her. She was easy to
talk to and responsive to ideas.


- Original Message -
From: Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: July 5 update on Flavia


Kerry when you get back from your trip, I would really like to know
 what vets you have seen, I just had a friend move to Chicago and she has
 had some horro experiences finding a vet she can trust.

 --
  Belinda
 Happiness is being owned by cats ...

 Be-Mi-Kitties ...
 http://www.bemikitties.com

 Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
 http://adopt.bemikitties.com

 FeLV Candle Light Service
 http://www.bemikitties.com/cls

 HostDesign4U.com  (affordable hosting  web design)
 http://HostDesign4U.com

 ---

 BMK Designs (non-profit web sites)
 http://bmk.bemikitties.com

Re: sniffles-gloria

2005-07-06 Thread Lernermichelle



I missed what you sai about his eyes being allergy-like. Never mind what I said about lymphoma, because that would not cause this symptom.
Michelle

Re: DD's allergies again....

2005-07-06 Thread Lernermichelle




Tonya,
 Yeast infections in ears do not smell, at least not to me. I did not smell anything with the two of mine who had them.
Michelle

In a message dated 7/6/05 12:56:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thanks Michelle,

I hadn't thought about a yeast infection, but I've dealt withthem in dogs.I have allergies myself and can't smell things that well, but I would definitelysmell a yeast infection! I was thinking about the immune thing as well. The other 2 cats that had goopy ears are older cats. One of them was the one who had been on the zythromax for bartonella with gum infections and the other is the older cat who's always had allergy problems and has the urinary infection. So anyway, the point of all that is I think it does have to do with their immunity being down. :(
t

Re: St. Francis Medals--for ALL!

2005-07-06 Thread jenmeyer

Absolutely, Erika!  I'd love to send one for each cat!

This list is so wonderfully modest... :)  I need to let everyone know
that these medals aren't *just* for people!  :)  If you've got cats or
dogs with collars, they'd fit right on there!  I've even put one on each
of the urns that hold the ashes of our cats who have passed
on...Seriously, I got these medals for pennies on the dollar...they're
not huge or ornate or anything...they're simple and
lightweight...perfect for collars or to put on chains for people!  :) 
The next batch will actually be compliments of my Dad's church as he
says, The people on this list are what St. Francis (and my church) is
all about!

So, everyone, please, please, please let me know if you'd like more than
just a few!!  They're quite adorable on collars, as well!  :)

Also, I haven't heard from Jenn who has been coordinating part of the
rescue effort at Angel Wings...does anyone have any info?  Thanks!

And I'm working on transcribing the prayer...I may have to give my Dad a
call as I've run into a problem reading his handwriting... :)  He could
have been a physician...

Jen


But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be
unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You
become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed... --Antoine de
Saint-Exupéry

If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know
each other.  If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what
you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys. --Chief Dan
George

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, July 6, 2005 0:37 am
Subject: Re: FeLV list- St. Francis Medals

 Hi Jen,
 I would love to get a couple of the St. Francis medals, if you are 
 sure it is 
 ok!  We have 3 kitties- one FeLV/FIV and 2 more that have to be 
 retested.  I 
 can send you a stamped envelope, just let me know.  Thank you for 
 being so 
 sweet to offer them!
 Erika
 
 You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you 
 don't try.
 ~Beverly Sills

Re: St. Francis Medals--for ALL!

Jen,
This makes me think of a couple of things, could I have 2 more medals? total of 4? I want one for Ninja's urn and one for Lucky's grave for my mom too.
Thanks[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Absolutely, Erika! I'd love to send one for each cat!This list is so wonderfully modest... :) I need to let everyone knowthat these medals aren't *just* for people! :) If you've got cats ordogs with collars, they'd fit right on there! I've even put one on eachof the urns that hold the ashes of our cats who have passedon...Seriously, I got these medals for pennies on the dollar...they'renot huge or ornate or anything...they're simple andlightweight...perfect for collars or to put on chains for people! :) The next batch will actually be compliments of my Dad's church as hesays, "The people on this list are what St. Francis (and my church) isall about!"So, everyone, please, please, please let me know if you'd like more thanjust a few!! They're quite adorable on collars, as well! :)Also, I haven't heard from Jenn who has been
 coordinating part of therescue effort at Angel Wings...does anyone have any info? Thanks!And I'm working on transcribing the prayer...I may have to give my Dad acall as I've run into a problem reading his handwriting... :) He couldhave been a physician...Jen"But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will beunique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; Youbecome responsible, forever, for what you have tamed..." --Antoine deSaint-Exupéry"If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will knoweach other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and whatyou do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys." --Chief DanGeorge- Original Message -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Wednesday, July 6, 2005 0:37 amSubject: Re: FeLV list- St. Francis Medals Hi
 Jen, I would love to get a couple of the St. Francis medals, if you are  sure it is  ok! We have 3 kitties- one FeLV/FIV and 2 more that have to be  retested. I  can send you a stamped envelope, just let me know. Thank you for  being so  sweet to offer them! Erika  You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you  don't try. ~Beverly SillsBarb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown:  paying no mind to whom he should impress.  Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile."- Anonymous
		 Sell on Yahoo! Auctions  - No fees. Bid on great items.

Re: St. Francis Medals--for ALL!

2005-07-06 Thread jenmeyer

You bet!!  :)



But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be
unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You
become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed... --Antoine de
Saint-Exupéry

If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know
each other.  If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what
you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys. --Chief Dan
George

- Original Message -
From: Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, July 6, 2005 10:33 am
Subject: Re: St. Francis Medals--for ALL!

 Jen,
 This makes me think of a couple of things, could I have 2 more 
 medals?  total of 4?  I want one for Ninja's urn and one for 
 Lucky's grave for my mom too.
 Thanks
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Absolutely, Erika! I'd love to send one for each cat!
 
 This list is so wonderfully modest... :) I need to let everyone know
 that these medals aren't *just* for people! :) If you've got cats or
 dogs with collars, they'd fit right on there! I've even put one on 
 eachof the urns that hold the ashes of our cats who have passed
 on...Seriously, I got these medals for pennies on the dollar...they're
 not huge or ornate or anything...they're simple and
 lightweight...perfect for collars or to put on chains for people! 
 :) 
 The next batch will actually be compliments of my Dad's church as he
 says, The people on this list are what St. Francis (and my church) is
 all about!
 
 So, everyone, please, please, please let me know if you'd like more 
 thanjust a few!! They're quite adorable on collars, as well! :)
 
 Also, I haven't heard from Jenn who has been coordinating part of the
 rescue effort at Angel Wings...does anyone have any info? Thanks!
 
 And I'm working on transcribing the prayer...I may have to give my 
 Dad a
 call as I've run into a problem reading his handwriting... :) He could
 have been a physician...
 
 Jen
 
 
 But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be
 unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the 
 world; You
 become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed... --Antoine de
 Saint-Exupéry
 
 If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know
 each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and 
 whatyou do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys. --
 Chief Dan
 George
 
 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Wednesday, July 6, 2005 0:37 am
 Subject: Re: FeLV list- St. Francis Medals
 
  Hi Jen,
  I would love to get a couple of the St. Francis medals, if you 
 are 
  sure it is 
  ok! We have 3 kitties- one FeLV/FIV and 2 more that have to be 
  retested. I 
  can send you a stamped envelope, just let me know. Thank you for 
  being so 
  sweet to offer them!
  Erika
  
  You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you 
  don't try.
  ~Beverly Sills
 
 
 
 
 Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito
 
 My cat the clown:  paying no mind to whom he should impress.  
 Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me 
 smile. 
   - Anonymous
   
 -
 Sell on Yahoo! Auctions  - No fees. Bid on great items.

Re: HELP...for Michelle L.

Dear Michelle L.:

Haven't been onlist for a while due to computer problems and just getting to 
(trying to, anyhow) a ton of (900+) e-messages.

Have you considered having Bramble evaluated by an accupuncturist to see if 
that might help mediate or clarify his neurological problems??  I don't have 
direct experience with seizures, but it just seems to make common sense that if 
you have some sort of neurlogical short-circuiting, making sure the electrical 
flow in all a critter's meridians is not blocked might be in order.  
Accupuncture might be able to restore his neurological balance, if that is the 
case.

If this all started after Bramble was treated with a spot-on flea product (or 
was that another cat and I'm confused?) or due to any drugs he's been given, 
something that would address detoxification might be helpful.  I would suggest 
contacting a vet who is well-versed in homeopathy and other alternative 
healing strategies.  I don't think giving him more drugs to simply suppress 
symptoms without addressing the underlying cause is the way to go.

And, since you are feeling conflicted about whether or not to try and keep 
treating Bramble or help him across to the other side, have you considered 
talking to him via an animal communicator to ask Bramble how he feels about his 
condition and whether or not he thinks he can get well and wants to keep trying?

I make it a point to ask my cats how they feel about their condition when 
they seem to be failing, or if I am dealing with a puzzling situation for which 
there seems to be no logical or obvious solution.  I've found my cats to be 
very aware and helpful.  There are some animal communicators who in addition to 
being able to communicate telepathically, are also medically intuitive and/or 
able to do energy work telepathically, which I have found to be very helpful 
on more than one occasion, especially in helping one of my crashing FeLV+ 
furbabies cross over gently and peacefully on their own, as they requested.  
I've 
found such communication to be very helpful when vets could give me no idea 
what was going on and simply wanted to run a battery of expensive diagnostics 
using the shotgun approach.  I was able to keep an old horse going for four 
years after the vets said there is nothing they could do to help her, with 
dietary 
modification/herbs and the help of a very gifted equine animal communicator.  
If you would like the name of an AC I've used with good results for talking 
to my cats, I would be happy to send that info to you.

Sally in San Jose

Re: Bones Bramble...for Michelle L.

Dear Michelle L.:

You are so lucky to live where you can get the VO (feline-specific 
interferon)...is it as expensive in England as it is here?  I am curious as to 
why you 
would want to obtain interferon-alpha (human type) when you can get the VO?  I 
did not find the
I-a to be of any benefit for either of my first two FeLV+ kittys...I lost one 
at 8 mos. to nonregenerative anemia and one at 16 mos. to what was probably 
lymphoma in her lungs. With the low dose usually prescribed, there is little 
liklihood of antibodies developing, but research has not shown it to be of any 
significant benefit at such a low dose.  It may be MUCH cheaper than the VO, 
but even so, I found it to be a waste of $$, though some listmembers seem to 
think their cats do better when they are on it than off.  In dealing with 
FeLV, a one size its all approach does not apply and each individual cat's 
immune response seems to vary.  The I-a  may have some benefit as a mild immune 
booster for a non-symptomatic cat, but I found it had no value whatsover in 
dealing with a cat who has developed significant symptoms and is crashing, 
which 
indicates the virus has mutated to one of its more virulent forms.  At that 
point, there really is nothing that can turn the tide, only stem it somewhat, 
though the VO seems to have snatched Nina's Gracie back from the brink more 
than once, though was unable to save her sister Jazz.

What I have found to be more beneficial as an immune booster is Transfer 
Factor.  I have two FeLV+ cats, a brother/sister, now two years old, who remain 
stable and non-symptomatic and who have been on this type of immune support 
since they tested positive the second time at six months.  I rescued a kitten 
last 
July who tested positive at six weeks and was going to be PTS.  He came to me 
with runny eyes and horrid diarrhea, but his symptoms cleared after about 10 
days on TF and a homeopathic remedy for the diarrhea.  I kept him on the same 
regimen as the other two postives (raw-based diet and immune support with TF 
and Oli-Vet (olive leaf extract) and when he was neutered at 6 mos., he 
retested NEGATIVE.  He is now a year old and in glowing good health with a 
personality that is larger than   life.  I've had two older cats apparently 
seroconvert 
from postive to negative status given a good diet and immune support, but 
Purrki is my first miracle baby.  My most notable non-FeLV related success with 
the TF was in successfully nursing a 10-wk. old kitten through panleukopenia 
after the vet said she had virtually no chance to survive unless hospitalized 
and 
put on an IV.  I could not afford to do that and if she had so little chance, 
I did not want her to die alone in a hospital cage, so took her home to do 
whatever I could, myself.  She had been started on TF at the first sign of a 
temp, several days before the obvious symptoms of the P-virus, and I really 
think 
it was a deciding factor.  I kept her on the TF and an abx was added to help 
fight off opportunistic bacterial infection due to degradation of the gut 
lining, syringe-fed her, gave her subQ fluids and kept her warm.  Her vomiting 
stopped the second day and the putrid diarrhea began, but it never reached that 
awful, bloody sort so typical of the end-stage of the disease.  My brave little 
Purrsia made a complete recovery from the dread P-virus, only to crash and be 
taken out 4 1/2 mos. later by FeLV-related nonregenerative anemia, which she 
had tested negative for previously.  The VO was not then available to us here. 
  

Bless you for rescuing Bramble, Buddy and Minstrel from the less than optimum 
 situation they were in, despite their + status.  I wish you the best in 
finding what will work best to keep them stable.

Sally in San Jose

Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3...for Michelle L.

Dear Michelle L.:

There is no point (and much risk) in vaccinating an immune-compromised cat 
who is FIV+ or FeLV+.  Vaccinations are an assault of sorts to the immune 
system 
and can be detrimental to even a cat with a normal immune system.  There is 
much good info about the risks of vaccines on the website Holisticat.com, or I 
would recommend highly the book by Dr. Martin Goldstein, The Nature of Animal 
Healing.

Some vets do still believe that the FIV and FeLV viruses are related, but 
more recent research tends to show they are not just substrains of the same 
virus.  The best that we can do for immune-compromised cats is to provide them 
with 
the healthiest possible diet, provide immune support and protect them from 
exposure as best we can to undue stress to their immune system due to emotional 
challenges, enviromental toxins or other cats that may carry pathogens that 
their immune system cannot withstand.  Other cats are really more of a threat 
to 
the FIV+ or FeLV+ cat than vice versa.

I have not done much research on FIV, but got a crash course on FeLV in 
'03-04 with two unrelated kittens I rescued in Oct. and Nov. '02 who turned out 
to 
be FeLV+.  The strain of FeLV virus (call it FeLV-A) that cats pass one to 
another causes significant immune suppression, but little else.  It is through 
recombining with a cat's DNA and mutating that the more virulent subgroups 
occur, the FeLV-A+B that is associated with lymphoma or other cancers and 
FeLV-A+C 
that is associated with nonregenerative anemia/leukemia.  In the worse case 
scenario it is possible for both subgroups to develop to FeLV-A+B+C.  At 
present 
the mechanism which prompts such mutations is not known.  This explains why 
some cats live for years, even with the virus in their bone marrow, while 
others crash and succumb early on.  Have you found out there is a similar 
progression for cats who are FIV+?  In general, they seem to have a better 
prognosis 
for long-term survival than do FeLV+ cats and I have always wondered if there 
is 
any research out there to suggest why this may be the case.  I also wonder if 
the concept of viral load is a pertinent one with FIV and FeLV, as it is 
where corona viruses like Panleukopenia and FIP are concerned.  

Since your three cats have already been together long-term, unless they are 
hostile toward each other and prone to fighting, I would not separate them but 
just keep the stress in their lives as minimal as possible, provide a healthy 
natural diet with immune support and supplements to address any symptoms they 
may have.  And, of course, LOVE them one day at a time.  I would NOT vaccinate 
them for FeLV or FIV, respectively.  The FeLV vaccine has been implicated in 
causing a latent infection to become an active one. Most holistic vets whose 
books I've read do not consider the FIV vaccine to be safe, either.

Sally in San Jose

RE: non profit status-- Hideyo









I talked to a couple of people who has
given me some helpful ideas, but I would still love to get referral if I can as
I am still sort of confused for certain things.



Thank you for asking!











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 8:25
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: non profit status--
Hideyo









Hideyo-- did you find the help you need with this or do you
still need a referral?





Michelle











In a message dated 6/27/05 4:27:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:





It would be great if you could refer me to someone  my boyfriend
is a lawyer and he could probably do all the paper work for me, but he is not
familiar with all the details at all  I would appreciate it, Michelle!

Thank you!

RE: HELP...for Michelle L.

Hi, Sally, it's so good to see your postings, I have been thinking of
you often and missing your postings.

Will that AC happen to be Jasmine, Sally?
Jasmine also sent healing energy to some of my animals in the past,
whether it's due to that or not, both of my animals healed immediately
after that - 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 9:52 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: HELP...for Michelle L.

Dear Michelle L.:

Haven't been onlist for a while due to computer problems and just
getting to 
(trying to, anyhow) a ton of (900+) e-messages.

Have you considered having Bramble evaluated by an accupuncturist to see
if 
that might help mediate or clarify his neurological problems??  I don't
have 
direct experience with seizures, but it just seems to make common sense
that if 
you have some sort of neurlogical short-circuiting, making sure the
electrical 
flow in all a critter's meridians is not blocked might be in order.  
Accupuncture might be able to restore his neurological balance, if that
is the case.

If this all started after Bramble was treated with a spot-on flea
product (or 
was that another cat and I'm confused?) or due to any drugs he's been
given, 
something that would address detoxification might be helpful.  I would
suggest 
contacting a vet who is well-versed in homeopathy and other alternative 
healing strategies.  I don't think giving him more drugs to simply
suppress 
symptoms without addressing the underlying cause is the way to go.

And, since you are feeling conflicted about whether or not to try and
keep 
treating Bramble or help him across to the other side, have you
considered 
talking to him via an animal communicator to ask Bramble how he feels
about his 
condition and whether or not he thinks he can get well and wants to keep
trying?

I make it a point to ask my cats how they feel about their condition
when 
they seem to be failing, or if I am dealing with a puzzling situation
for which 
there seems to be no logical or obvious solution.  I've found my cats to
be 
very aware and helpful.  There are some animal communicators who in
addition to 
being able to communicate telepathically, are also medically intuitive
and/or 
able to do energy work telepathically, which I have found to be very
helpful 
on more than one occasion, especially in helping one of my crashing
FeLV+ 
furbabies cross over gently and peacefully on their own, as they
requested.  I've 
found such communication to be very helpful when vets could give me no
idea 
what was going on and simply wanted to run a battery of expensive
diagnostics 
using the shotgun approach.  I was able to keep an old horse going for
four 
years after the vets said there is nothing they could do to help her,
with dietary 
modification/herbs and the help of a very gifted equine animal
communicator.  
If you would like the name of an AC I've used with good results for
talking 
to my cats, I would be happy to send that info to you.

Sally in San Jose

Re: St. Francis Medals--for ALL!

2005-07-06 Thread Belinda Sauro


Hi Jen,
  Ok, if it isn't too much trouble, I'll take 4 total, my friend has 
two dogs that are slowly being poisoned by her neighbor (as are her and 
her hubby), he is constantly remodeling his house and he makes his own 
mortar and bricks and finishes and mixes paint and all kinds of chemical 
things.  My friend has allergies, and is chemical sensative and just 
recently has had to take both dogs to the vets, they both had calcium 
levels off the charts, she almost lost her dog.  Her dog coincidentally 
has been having siezures for many years, they started out of the blue 
when he was 2 years old (he's on medication of course).


She just last year figured out why she, hubby and the dogs are so sick 
all the time, they are actually moving out of the house they have lived 
in for the last 21 years because of this.  I would like one for each of 
her dogs also.  I'm just praying they will live long enough to move, she 
plans on painting and moving by the end of the month.  I hope who ever 
buys it doesn't have allergies.


--
Belinda
Happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties ...
http://www.bemikitties.com

Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
http://adopt.bemikitties.com

FeLV Candle Light Service
http://www.bemikitties.com/cls

HostDesign4U.com  (affordable hosting  web design)
http://HostDesign4U.com

---

BMK Designs (non-profit web sites)
http://bmk.bemikitties.com

Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

Dear all
My sweet, gorgeous little girl Flavia is gone.
It all happened so quickly. When I went in to check on her at 9.30am (she
had seemed fine at 6am and later), she was hiding in the carrier, and seemed
to be breathing more rapidly than the others. I also noticed than someone
had vomited--a first, if my memory serves me right, since they all arrived
in December 2003. I figured it was probably Flavia. Someone else has also
been urinating a little over the past few days out of the box--again, a
first. I thought it was probably Flavia.
So, seeing her fast breathing, I panicked, and took her immediately to the
vet I saw yesterday, Dr Teuber, and she confirmed that her respiratory rate
had increased since yesterday. We ran a PCV, and it had plummeted to 10,
from 16 1/2 at 4pm yesterday.
I actually think Flavia was ready. She didn't want to play at all last night
(she hasn't been able to play the way she used to--leaping in the air to
catch the bug--for a few weeks, presumably because she hasn't had the
energy). Her quality of life was going downhill. It's a pity we didn't get a
chance to use the IR, which I had had fedexed to 2 clinics. (Her IR would
have probably begun later this week--I had the housecall vet set up, and
just had to set a schedule.)
I was/am a mess, but Flavia and I had a long cuddle, which was really
lovely, and helped a lot, for which I am very grateful. The vet was a
wonderful woman, who I only met yesterday (Dr Teuber at Higgins, Belinda--do
tell your Chicago friend.). Looks like I may not have terminated my
relationship with Higgins after all...
I am grateful that Flavia gave me the signs today, while I was still here
and able to help her.act on it immediately. The thought of her fighting for
breath for hours, or suffering in any way, while I was gone, and no one here
apart from the petsitter 30 mins a day, was not something I could accept. (I
did not want to hospitalize her.)
I'm going to miss her terribly. I loved that little soul. I've been a bit of
a mess over the thought of losing her for the last 2 weeks, and shed more
tears than I thought humanly possible. She was a tabby, very feminine,
elfin-faced, with streaks of auburn and coffee and cream on her underside
and a long, beautiful, elegant tail. Last night I stroked her with a feather
for a long time and she really enjoyed it--stretching luxuriously. And, of
course, she became much more willing to be stroked and held over the past
few days.
Thanks to everyone for their prayers and good wishes. If I'm not in touch
again today, I send lots of healing vibes for all the sick kitties, and I'll
be in touch again the weekend of the 23rd.
Goodbye, my gorgeous Flavia.
Kerry





- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3...for Michelle L.


 Dear Michelle L.:

 There is no point (and much risk) in vaccinating an immune-compromised cat
 who is FIV+ or FeLV+.  Vaccinations are an assault of sorts to the immune
system
 and can be detrimental to even a cat with a normal immune system.  There
is
 much good info about the risks of vaccines on the website Holisticat.com,
or I
 would recommend highly the book by Dr. Martin Goldstein, The Nature of
Animal
 Healing.

 Some vets do still believe that the FIV and FeLV viruses are related, but
 more recent research tends to show they are not just substrains of the
same
 virus.  The best that we can do for immune-compromised cats is to provide
them with
 the healthiest possible diet, provide immune support and protect them from
 exposure as best we can to undue stress to their immune system due to
emotional
 challenges, enviromental toxins or other cats that may carry pathogens
that
 their immune system cannot withstand.  Other cats are really more of a
threat to
 the FIV+ or FeLV+ cat than vice versa.

 I have not done much research on FIV, but got a crash course on FeLV in
 '03-04 with two unrelated kittens I rescued in Oct. and Nov. '02 who
turned out to
 be FeLV+.  The strain of FeLV virus (call it FeLV-A) that cats pass one to
 another causes significant immune suppression, but little else.  It is
through
 recombining with a cat's DNA and mutating that the more virulent subgroups
 occur, the FeLV-A+B that is associated with lymphoma or other cancers and
FeLV-A+C
 that is associated with nonregenerative anemia/leukemia.  In the worse
case
 scenario it is possible for both subgroups to develop to FeLV-A+B+C.  At
present
 the mechanism which prompts such mutations is not known.  This explains
why
 some cats live for years, even with the virus in their bone marrow, while
 others crash and succumb early on.  Have you found out there is a similar
 progression for cats who are FIV+?  In general, they seem to have a better
prognosis
 for long-term survival than do FeLV+ cats and I have always wondered if
there is
 any research out there to suggest why this may be the case.  I

Sally

A PS--welcome back Sally--we missed you and your wise replies.
Kerry
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: HELP...for Michelle L.

 Dear Michelle L.:

 Haven't been onlist for a while due to computer problems and just getting
to
 (trying to, anyhow) a ton of (900+) e-messages.

 Have you considered having Bramble evaluated by an accupuncturist to see
if
 that might help mediate or clarify his neurological problems??  I don't
have
 direct experience with seizures, but it just seems to make common sense
that if
 you have some sort of neurlogical short-circuiting, making sure the
electrical
 flow in all a critter's meridians is not blocked might be in order.
 Accupuncture might be able to restore his neurological balance, if that is
the case.

 If this all started after Bramble was treated with a spot-on flea product
(or
 was that another cat and I'm confused?) or due to any drugs he's been
given,
 something that would address detoxification might be helpful.  I would
suggest
 contacting a vet who is well-versed in homeopathy and other alternative
 healing strategies.  I don't think giving him more drugs to simply
suppress
 symptoms without addressing the underlying cause is the way to go.

 And, since you are feeling conflicted about whether or not to try and keep
 treating Bramble or help him across to the other side, have you considered
 talking to him via an animal communicator to ask Bramble how he feels
about his
 condition and whether or not he thinks he can get well and wants to keep
trying?

 I make it a point to ask my cats how they feel about their condition when
 they seem to be failing, or if I am dealing with a puzzling situation for
which
 there seems to be no logical or obvious solution.  I've found my cats to
be
 very aware and helpful.  There are some animal communicators who in
addition to
 being able to communicate telepathically, are also medically intuitive
and/or
 able to do energy work telepathically, which I have found to be very
helpful
 on more than one occasion, especially in helping one of my crashing FeLV+
 furbabies cross over gently and peacefully on their own, as they
requested.  I've
 found such communication to be very helpful when vets could give me no
idea
 what was going on and simply wanted to run a battery of expensive
diagnostics
 using the shotgun approach.  I was able to keep an old horse going for
four
 years after the vets said there is nothing they could do to help her, with
dietary
 modification/herbs and the help of a very gifted equine animal
communicator.
 If you would like the name of an AC I've used with good results for
talking
 to my cats, I would be happy to send that info to you.

 Sally in San Jose

Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

2005-07-06 Thread Joan Doljan

Kerry,

I am so sorry. I know how much you cared for her and she sensed she could make you understand that it was time for her to leave. I know she is in a better place, not suffering, but missing you as well.

Joan

Kerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear allMy sweet, gorgeous little girl Flavia is gone.It all happened so quickly. When I went in to check on her at 9.30am (shehad seemed fine at 6am and later), she was hiding in the carrier, and seemedto be breathing more rapidly than the others. I also noticed than someonehad vomited--a first, if my memory serves me right, since they all arrivedin December 2003. I figured it was probably Flavia. Someone else has alsobeen urinating a little over the past few days out of the box--again, afirst. I thought it was probably Flavia.So, seeing her fast breathing, I panicked, and took her immediately to thevet I saw yesterday, Dr Teuber, and she confirmed that her respiratory ratehad increased since yesterday. We ran a PCV, and it had plummeted to 10,from 16 1/2 at 4pm yesterday.I actually think Flavia was ready. She didn't want to play at
all last night(she hasn't been able to play the way she used to--leaping in the air tocatch the "bug"--for a few weeks, presumably because she hasn't had theenergy). Her quality of life was going downhill. It's a pity we didn't get achance to use the IR, which I had had fedexed to 2 clinics. (Her IR wouldhave probably begun later this week--I had the housecall vet set up, andjust had to set a schedule.)I was/am a mess, but Flavia and I had a long cuddle, which was reallylovely, and helped a lot, for which I am very grateful. The vet was awonderful woman, who I only met yesterday (Dr Teuber at Higgins, Belinda--dotell your Chicago friend.). Looks like I may not have terminated myrelationship with Higgins after all...I am grateful that Flavia gave me the signs today, while I was still hereand able to help her.act on it immediately. The thought of her fighting forbreath for hours, or suffering in any way, while I was gone, and no
one hereapart from the petsitter 30 mins a day, was not something I could accept. (Idid not want to hospitalize her.)I'm going to miss her terribly. I loved that little soul. I've been a bit ofa mess over the thought of losing her for the last 2 weeks, and shed moretears than I thought humanly possible. She was a tabby, very feminine,elfin-faced, with streaks of auburn and coffee and cream on her undersideand a long, beautiful, elegant tail. Last night I stroked her with a featherfor a long time and she really enjoyed it--stretching luxuriously. And, ofcourse, she became much more willing to be stroked and held over the pastfew days.Thanks to everyone for their prayers and good wishes. If I'm not in touchagain today, I send lots of healing vibes for all the sick kitties, and I'llbe in touch again the weekend of the 23rd.Goodbye, my gorgeous Flavia.Kerry- Original Message -From:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:52 AMSubject: Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3...for Michelle L. Dear Michelle L.: There is no point (and much risk) in vaccinating an immune-compromised cat who is FIV+ or FeLV+. Vaccinations are an assault of sorts to the immunesystem and can be detrimental to even a cat with a normal immune system. Thereis much good info about the risks of vaccines on the website Holisticat.com,or I would recommend highly the book by Dr. Martin Goldstein, The Nature ofAnimal Healing. Some vets do still believe that the FIV and FeLV viruses are related, but more recent research tends to show they are not just substrains of thesame virus. The best that we can do for immune-compromised cats is to providethem with the healthiest possible diet, provide immune support
and protect them from exposure as best we can to undue stress to their immune system due toemotional challenges, enviromental toxins or other cats that may carry pathogensthat their immune system cannot withstand. Other cats are really more of athreat to the FIV+ or FeLV+ cat than vice versa. I have not done much research on FIV, but got a crash course on FeLV in '03-04 with two unrelated kittens I rescued in Oct. and Nov. '02 whoturned out to be FeLV+. The strain of FeLV virus (call it FeLV-A) that cats pass one to another causes significant immune suppression, but little else. It isthrough recombining with a cat's DNA and mutating that the more virulent subgroups occur, the FeLV-A+B that is associated with lymphoma or other cancers andFeLV-A+C that is associated with nonregenerative anemia/leukemia. In the worsecase scenario it is possible for both
subgroups to develop to FeLV-A+B+C. Atpresent the mechanism which prompts such mutations is not known. This explainswhy some cats live for years, even with the virus in their bone marrow, while others crash and succumb early on. Have you found out there is a similar progression for cats who are FIV+? In general, they seem to have a

Re: Allergies Prayers


Hi Michelle,
I'm pleased to hear Bramble is improving, and you too of course!  Uggh, 
I can't believe you're having to deal with ringworm as well as his other 
health issues.  How is his eyesight?  How are the other two doing?  Did 
they pick up the ringworm as well?


Your comments about Bramble sitting on your face and you not wanting to 
disturb him made me laugh.  I can just see you trying to breath through 
cat fur as quietly as possible.  Isn't it nice to have a group of people 
to say that sort of thing to?  People that instead of cocking their 
heads at you, smile and nod?

Nina

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

If Your kittie does have allergies Gloria - we have a drug in UK 
called cyclosporin that is supposed to be the new up and coming drug 
for treating allergies and is supposed to be really good. I don't 
think it weakens the immune system as steroids do but I would need to 
double check on that - however, it does interact with certain heart 
medications so cats need not to be on heart meds. I guess it would be 
available in other countries although I'm not sure which - would need 
to find out.
 
My Prayers still go to everybody who are experiencing difficulties 
with their fur kids. Bramble is still doing well and we are doing our 
best to treat his bacterial folliculitis and ringworm - most of it has 
improved but one patch on his face hasn't as that is one that he keeps 
scratching. I am slightly less itchy but will need my ringworm 
treatment for about 3-4 weeks - lol. I don't care about my symptoms so 
long as Bramble stays comfortable - last night he jumped up on the bed 
but in stead of getting on my chest he stood on my face for a while 
first - bless him - I didn't move because I didn't want to disturb him 
- so I just lay there with a squashed face - who ever said happiness 
is being ruled by cats was so right
 
Michelle, Bramble, Minstrel  Buddy

Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

2005-07-06 Thread TenHouseCats

oh, kerry, i'm so sorry! i haven't been posting much, but have been
following everyone's story, and holding all in light

i'm so glad you were able to hear her, and to be with her when she went on. 

GLOW to light her way, and for you to heal...

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

2005-07-06 Thread Kat

Kerry,
I'm so sorry Flavia is gone -
I'm glad you were able to spend the last night with her, and that you were
still here and the one who she told when she was ready, but it's so very
hard to let them go - even knowing they will be made whole again, waiting
for us at the Rainbow Bridge.  Please know that she wanted you to know
this and to be at peace with this before you went away so you wouldn't be
worrying about her.  My thoughts and prayers are with you at this sad
time.
Kat (Mew Jersey)

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Kerry MacKenzie wrote:

 Dear all
 My sweet, gorgeous little girl Flavia is gone.

Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda



Kerry,
 I'm so sorry to hear about your precious "Flavia" you did what any of us would have done to help our babies. She is now at the bridge healthy and running with the others.
I might not have posted much but I do read the postings and felt she was right next door to me.
You are in my thoughts and prayers

 Terrie MohrCheck site for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYShttps://www.paypal.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttp://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescueClick Here to Join K9 and Puddy Xpress Yahoo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9andPuddyXpress/joinhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE  COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet!http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.orecatay.com/http://www.awca.net/index.htmhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/http://www.meezer.com/http://thesiamesestore.com/http://tx.siameserescue.org/adopt.htmlhttp://ca.siameserescue.org/Southern CA. Siamese Rescuehttp://cs.siameserescue.org/Northern CA. Siamese Rescuehttp://cn.siameserescue.org/http://co.siameserescue.org/http://va.siameserescue.org/

RE: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

,
NOOO
, Kerry, please tell me it's not true!!  Kerry, I am
sorry, but I can't deal with the fact that Flavia is gone, Kerry. 
I am so sad and can't barely think right now - oh my
gosh..
I am so sorry, I am supposed to be comforting you, but I have been
attached to her so much through you, and can't accept the fact that she
is gone, Kerry.
I am just mess right now, Kerry and I am sorry for not being strong for
you - I just want to cry with you.

I wish I were right there to comfort you, I wish I could hold Flavia in
my arm, Kerry.  What a sweet girl she has been and she is - she probably
wanted to say good bye to you before you left - 

Kerry, may I have her picture?  I would like to keep it as a memory of
the most precious baby of yours and mine - 
Kerry, don't be too sad, I know Flavia's soul is right there with you,
she can probably now travel with you, too.
I just love her so much through you, Kerry - and I miss her so terribly
-

Love forever for Flavia,

Hideyo



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kerry
MacKenzie
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 11:35 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

Dear all
My sweet, gorgeous little girl Flavia is gone.
It all happened so quickly. When I went in to check on her at 9.30am
(she
had seemed fine at 6am and later), she was hiding in the carrier, and
seemed
to be breathing more rapidly than the others. I also noticed than
someone
had vomited--a first, if my memory serves me right, since they all
arrived
in December 2003. I figured it was probably Flavia. Someone else has
also
been urinating a little over the past few days out of the box--again, a
first. I thought it was probably Flavia.
So, seeing her fast breathing, I panicked, and took her immediately to
the
vet I saw yesterday, Dr Teuber, and she confirmed that her respiratory
rate
had increased since yesterday. We ran a PCV, and it had plummeted to 10,
from 16 1/2 at 4pm yesterday.
I actually think Flavia was ready. She didn't want to play at all last
night
(she hasn't been able to play the way she used to--leaping in the air to
catch the bug--for a few weeks, presumably because she hasn't had the
energy). Her quality of life was going downhill. It's a pity we didn't
get a
chance to use the IR, which I had had fedexed to 2 clinics. (Her IR
would
have probably begun later this week--I had the housecall vet set up, and
just had to set a schedule.)
I was/am a mess, but Flavia and I had a long cuddle, which was really
lovely, and helped a lot, for which I am very grateful. The vet was a
wonderful woman, who I only met yesterday (Dr Teuber at Higgins,
Belinda--do
tell your Chicago friend.). Looks like I may not have terminated my
relationship with Higgins after all...
I am grateful that Flavia gave me the signs today, while I was still
here
and able to help her.act on it immediately. The thought of her fighting
for
breath for hours, or suffering in any way, while I was gone, and no one
here
apart from the petsitter 30 mins a day, was not something I could
accept. (I
did not want to hospitalize her.)
I'm going to miss her terribly. I loved that little soul. I've been a
bit of
a mess over the thought of losing her for the last 2 weeks, and shed
more
tears than I thought humanly possible. She was a tabby, very feminine,
elfin-faced, with streaks of auburn and coffee and cream on her
underside
and a long, beautiful, elegant tail. Last night I stroked her with a
feather
for a long time and she really enjoyed it--stretching luxuriously. And,
of
course, she became much more willing to be stroked and held over the
past
few days.
Thanks to everyone for their prayers and good wishes. If I'm not in
touch
again today, I send lots of healing vibes for all the sick kitties, and
I'll
be in touch again the weekend of the 23rd.
Goodbye, my gorgeous Flavia.
Kerry





- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3...for Michelle L.


 Dear Michelle L.:

 There is no point (and much risk) in vaccinating an immune-compromised
cat
 who is FIV+ or FeLV+.  Vaccinations are an assault of sorts to the
immune
system
 and can be detrimental to even a cat with a normal immune system.
There
is
 much good info about the risks of vaccines on the website
Holisticat.com,
or I
 would recommend highly the book by Dr. Martin Goldstein, The Nature of
Animal
 Healing.

 Some vets do still believe that the FIV and FeLV viruses are related,
but
 more recent research tends to show they are not just substrains of the
same
 virus.  The best that we can do for immune-compromised cats is to
provide
them with
 the healthiest possible diet, provide immune support and protect them
from
 exposure as best we can to undue stress to their

Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

2005-07-06 Thread Cherie A Gabbert

Kerry,
I feel for your loss, I am sorry and I hope you will recover for Flavia. She is watching and missing you from the Bridge. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Cherie
Kerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear allMy sweet, gorgeous little girl Flavia is gone.It all happened so quickly. When I went in to check on her at 9.30am (shehad seemed fine at 6am and later), she was hiding in the carrier, and seemedto be breathing more rapidly than the others. I also noticed than someonehad vomited--a first, if my memory serves me right, since they all arrivedin December 2003. I figured it was probably Flavia. Someone else has alsobeen urinating a little over the past few days out of the box--again, afirst. I thought it was probably Flavia.So, seeing her fast breathing, I panicked, and took her immediately to thevet I saw yesterday, Dr Teuber, and she confirmed that her respiratory ratehad increased since yesterday. We ran a PCV, and it had plummeted to 10,from 16 1/2 at 4pm yesterday.I actually think Flavia was ready. She didn't want to play at
all last night(she hasn't been able to play the way she used to--leaping in the air tocatch the "bug"--for a few weeks, presumably because she hasn't had theenergy). Her quality of life was going downhill. It's a pity we didn't get achance to use the IR, which I had had fedexed to 2 clinics. (Her IR wouldhave probably begun later this week--I had the housecall vet set up, andjust had to set a schedule.)I was/am a mess, but Flavia and I had a long cuddle, which was reallylovely, and helped a lot, for which I am very grateful. The vet was awonderful woman, who I only met yesterday (Dr Teuber at Higgins, Belinda--dotell your Chicago friend.). Looks like I may not have terminated myrelationship with Higgins after all...I am grateful that Flavia gave me the signs today, while I was still hereand able to help her.act on it immediately. The thought of her fighting forbreath for hours, or suffering in any way, while I was gone, and no
one hereapart from the petsitter 30 mins a day, was not something I could accept. (Idid not want to hospitalize her.)I'm going to miss her terribly. I loved that little soul. I've been a bit ofa mess over the thought of losing her for the last 2 weeks, and shed moretears than I thought humanly possible. She was a tabby, very feminine,elfin-faced, with streaks of auburn and coffee and cream on her undersideand a long, beautiful, elegant tail. Last night I stroked her with a featherfor a long time and she really enjoyed it--stretching luxuriously. And, ofcourse, she became much more willing to be stroked and held over the pastfew days.Thanks to everyone for their prayers and good wishes. If I'm not in touchagain today, I send lots of healing vibes for all the sick kitties, and I'llbe in touch again the weekend of the 23rd.Goodbye, my gorgeous Flavia.Kerry- Original Message -From:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:52 AMSubject: Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3...for Michelle L. Dear Michelle L.: There is no point (and much risk) in vaccinating an immune-compromised cat who is FIV+ or FeLV+. Vaccinations are an assault of sorts to the immunesystem and can be detrimental to even a cat with a normal immune system. Thereis much good info about the risks of vaccines on the website Holisticat.com,or I would recommend highly the book by Dr. Martin Goldstein, The Nature ofAnimal Healing. Some vets do still believe that the FIV and FeLV viruses are related, but more recent research tends to show they are not just substrains of thesame virus. The best that we can do for immune-compromised cats is to providethem with the healthiest possible diet, provide immune support
and protect them from exposure as best we can to undue stress to their immune system due toemotional challenges, enviromental toxins or other cats that may carry pathogensthat their immune system cannot withstand. Other cats are really more of athreat to the FIV+ or FeLV+ cat than vice versa. I have not done much research on FIV, but got a crash course on FeLV in '03-04 with two unrelated kittens I rescued in Oct. and Nov. '02 whoturned out to be FeLV+. The strain of FeLV virus (call it FeLV-A) that cats pass one to another causes significant immune suppression, but little else. It isthrough recombining with a cat's DNA and mutating that the more virulent subgroups occur, the FeLV-A+B that is associated with lymphoma or other cancers andFeLV-A+C that is associated with nonregenerative anemia/leukemia. In the worsecase scenario it is possible for both
subgroups to develop to FeLV-A+B+C. Atpresent the mechanism which prompts such mutations is not known. This explainswhy some cats live for years, even with the virus in their bone marrow, while others crash and succumb early on. Have you found out there is a similar progression for cats who are FIV+? In general, they seem to have a betterprognosis for long-term survival than do

Re: OT - 2 things





Me too...otherwise it will be marked!

In a message dated 7/5/2005 7:55:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I've just stopped using rugs. lol. I keep one in the bathroom for when I take a shower. But I leave it hanging over the shower curtain rod and only put it in the floor for the time it takes to get a shower and get out!

t


 Terrie MohrCheck site for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYShttps://www.paypal.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttp://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescueClick Here to Join K9 and Puddy Xpress Yahoo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9andPuddyXpress/joinhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE  COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet!http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.orecatay.com/http://www.awca.net/index.htmhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/http://www.meezer.com/http://thesiamesestore.com/http://tx.siameserescue.org/adopt.htmlhttp://ca.siameserescue.org/Southern CA. Siamese Rescuehttp://cs.siameserescue.org/Northern CA. Siamese Rescuehttp://cn.siameserescue.org/http://co.siameserescue.org/http://va.siameserescue.org/

Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

Oh Kerry, I'm so sorry it was her time, but it sounds like she had a peaceful passing and was able to be with you. Our thoughts and tears are with you..
HUGSKerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear allMy sweet, gorgeous little girl Flavia is gone.It all happened so quickly. When I went in to check on her at 9.30am (shehad seemed fine at 6am and later), she was hiding in the carrier, and seemedto be breathing more rapidly than the others. I also noticed than someonehad vomited--a first, if my memory serves me right, since they all arrivedin December 2003. I figured it was probably Flavia. Someone else has alsobeen urinating a little over the past few days out of the box--again, afirst. I thought it was probably Flavia.So, seeing her fast breathing, I panicked, and took her immediately to thevet I saw yesterday, Dr Teuber, and she confirmed that her respiratory ratehad increased since yesterday. We ran a PCV, and it had plummeted to 10,from 16 1/2 at 4pm yesterday.I actually think Flavia was ready. She didn't want to play at
all last night(she hasn't been able to play the way she used to--leaping in the air tocatch the "bug"--for a few weeks, presumably because she hasn't had theenergy). Her quality of life was going downhill. It's a pity we didn't get achance to use the IR, which I had had fedexed to 2 clinics. (Her IR wouldhave probably begun later this week--I had the housecall vet set up, andjust had to set a schedule.)I was/am a mess, but Flavia and I had a long cuddle, which was reallylovely, and helped a lot, for which I am very grateful. The vet was awonderful woman, who I only met yesterday (Dr Teuber at Higgins, Belinda--dotell your Chicago friend.). Looks like I may not have terminated myrelationship with Higgins after all...I am grateful that Flavia gave me the signs today, while I was still hereand able to help her.act on it immediately. The thought of her fighting forbreath for hours, or suffering in any way, while I was gone, and no
one hereapart from the petsitter 30 mins a day, was not something I could accept. (Idid not want to hospitalize her.)I'm going to miss her terribly. I loved that little soul. I've been a bit ofa mess over the thought of losing her for the last 2 weeks, and shed moretears than I thought humanly possible. She was a tabby, very feminine,elfin-faced, with streaks of auburn and coffee and cream on her undersideand a long, beautiful, elegant tail. Last night I stroked her with a featherfor a long time and she really enjoyed it--stretching luxuriously. And, ofcourse, she became much more willing to be stroked and held over the pastfew days.Thanks to everyone for their prayers and good wishes. If I'm not in touchagain today, I send lots of healing vibes for all the sick kitties, and I'llbe in touch again the weekend of the 23rd.Goodbye, my gorgeous Flavia.Kerry- Original Message -From:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:52 AMSubject: Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3...for Michelle L. Dear Michelle L.: There is no point (and much risk) in vaccinating an immune-compromised cat who is FIV+ or FeLV+. Vaccinations are an assault of sorts to the immunesystem and can be detrimental to even a cat with a normal immune system. Thereis much good info about the risks of vaccines on the website Holisticat.com,or I would recommend highly the book by Dr. Martin Goldstein, The Nature ofAnimal Healing. Some vets do still believe that the FIV and FeLV viruses are related, but more recent research tends to show they are not just substrains of thesame virus. The best that we can do for immune-compromised cats is to providethem with the healthiest possible diet, provide immune support
and protect them from exposure as best we can to undue stress to their immune system due toemotional challenges, enviromental toxins or other cats that may carry pathogensthat their immune system cannot withstand. Other cats are really more of athreat to the FIV+ or FeLV+ cat than vice versa. I have not done much research on FIV, but got a crash course on FeLV in '03-04 with two unrelated kittens I rescued in Oct. and Nov. '02 whoturned out to be FeLV+. The strain of FeLV virus (call it FeLV-A) that cats pass one to another causes significant immune suppression, but little else. It isthrough recombining with a cat's DNA and mutating that the more virulent subgroups occur, the FeLV-A+B that is associated with lymphoma or other cancers andFeLV-A+C that is associated with nonregenerative anemia/leukemia. In the worsecase scenario it is possible for both
subgroups to develop to FeLV-A+B+C. Atpresent the mechanism which prompts such mutations is not known. This explainswhy some cats live for years, even with the virus in their bone marrow, while others crash and succumb early on. Have you found out there is a similar progression for cats who are FIV+? In general, they seem to have a betterprognosis for long-term survival than do FeLV+ cats and I

Re: St. Francis Medals--for ALL!



Bless You Jen!!!

 Terrie MohrCheck site for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYShttps://www.paypal.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttp://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescueClick Here to Join K9 and Puddy Xpress Yahoo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9andPuddyXpress/joinhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE  COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet!http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.orecatay.com/http://www.awca.net/index.htmhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/http://www.meezer.com/http://thesiamesestore.com/http://tx.siameserescue.org/adopt.htmlhttp://ca.siameserescue.org/Southern CA. Siamese Rescuehttp://cs.siameserescue.org/Northern CA. Siamese Rescuehttp://cn.siameserescue.org/http://co.siameserescue.org/http://va.siameserescue.org/

Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

Aw Kerry, I'm so truly sorry.  I'm crying as I write this.  It's just so 
heartbreaking.  I'm glad she was able to trust you and had such lovely 
moments being stroked and comforted by you.  I wish it could have 
happened sooner, but it's no less wonderful that it happened, even for 
such a short time.  In a way, it's not a bad thing that the IR hadn't 
arrived.  The outcome may have been the same and then you would have 
been blaming yourself for trying it.  Sweet, beautiful, little girl, she 
knew better than us, her timing will at least put your mind at ease 
during your trip.  You know what I mean, you don't have to worry about 
her being without you now.  Please know that you are not alone in 
mourning your sweet Flavia.  I had such high hopes for her being the one 
to help the others see how wonderful it is to trust. 
I'm sending you and your other babies love and comfort,

Nina

Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda


Kerry,
I feel the same way as Hideyo.  Do you have a picture of her to send to 
Belinda for the CLS page?  I too would love to see the little girl we 
all fell in love with through you.

Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:


,
NOO

Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

2005-07-06 Thread Stephanie E Caldwell


I'm so sorry Kerry...

My thoughts are with you
Steph

Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

2005-07-06 Thread jenmeyer

Oh, Kerry...I am so sorry...please know that you and Flavia are in my
thoughts.  I bet there's a shiney new angel at the bridge telling the
other fur-angels all about her wonderful Mum here on Earth!  Keep your
heart open 'cause I bet Flavia will be sending you a sign that she's
okay...although my signs usually manifest themselves in a pair of sad
little eyes that suddenly show up on my doorstep... ;)  My little angels
must have joined some kind of Cat Consulting Club as I always get a
sense that *somebody* has whispered into the ear of our newcomers just
which doorstep they need to show up on!  :)

Take care of yourself,

Jen


But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be
unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You
become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed... --Antoine de
Saint-Exupéry

If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know
each other.  If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what
you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys. --Chief Dan
George

- Original Message -
From: Kerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, July 6, 2005 12:35 pm
Subject: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

 Dear all
 My sweet, gorgeous little girl Flavia is gone.
 It all happened so quickly. When I went in to check on her at 
 9.30am (she
 had seemed fine at 6am and later), she was hiding in the carrier, 
 and seemed
 to be breathing more rapidly than the others. I also noticed than 
 someonehad vomited--a first, if my memory serves me right, since 
 they all arrived
 in December 2003. I figured it was probably Flavia. Someone else 
 has also
 been urinating a little over the past few days out of the box--
 again, a
 first. I thought it was probably Flavia.
 So, seeing her fast breathing, I panicked, and took her immediately 
 to the
 vet I saw yesterday, Dr Teuber, and she confirmed that her 
 respiratory rate
 had increased since yesterday. We ran a PCV, and it had plummeted 
 to 10,
 from 16 1/2 at 4pm yesterday.
 I actually think Flavia was ready. She didn't want to play at all 
 last night
 (she hasn't been able to play the way she used to--leaping in the 
 air to
 catch the bug--for a few weeks, presumably because she hasn't had 
 theenergy). Her quality of life was going downhill. It's a pity we 
 didn't get a
 chance to use the IR, which I had had fedexed to 2 clinics. (Her IR 
 wouldhave probably begun later this week--I had the housecall vet 
 set up, and
 just had to set a schedule.)
 I was/am a mess, but Flavia and I had a long cuddle, which was really
 lovely, and helped a lot, for which I am very grateful. The vet was a
 wonderful woman, who I only met yesterday (Dr Teuber at Higgins, 
 Belinda--do
 tell your Chicago friend.). Looks like I may not have terminated my
 relationship with Higgins after all...
 I am grateful that Flavia gave me the signs today, while I was 
 still here
 and able to help her.act on it immediately. The thought of her 
 fighting for
 breath for hours, or suffering in any way, while I was gone, and no 
 one here
 apart from the petsitter 30 mins a day, was not something I could 
 accept. (I
 did not want to hospitalize her.)
 I'm going to miss her terribly. I loved that little soul. I've been 
 a bit of
 a mess over the thought of losing her for the last 2 weeks, and 
 shed more
 tears than I thought humanly possible. She was a tabby, very feminine,
 elfin-faced, with streaks of auburn and coffee and cream on her 
 undersideand a long, beautiful, elegant tail. Last night I stroked 
 her with a feather
 for a long time and she really enjoyed it--stretching luxuriously. 
 And, of
 course, she became much more willing to be stroked and held over 
 the past
 few days.
 Thanks to everyone for their prayers and good wishes. If I'm not in 
 touchagain today, I send lots of healing vibes for all the sick 
 kitties, and I'll
 be in touch again the weekend of the 23rd.
 Goodbye, my gorgeous Flavia.
 Kerry
 
 
 
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:52 AM
 Subject: Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3...for Michelle L.
 
 
  Dear Michelle L.:
 
  There is no point (and much risk) in vaccinating an immune-
 compromised cat
  who is FIV+ or FeLV+.  Vaccinations are an assault of sorts to 
 the immune
 system
  and can be detrimental to even a cat with a normal immune system. 
 There
 is
  much good info about the risks of vaccines on the website 
 Holisticat.com,or I
  would recommend highly the book by Dr. Martin Goldstein, The 
 Nature of
 Animal
  Healing.
 
  Some vets do still believe that the FIV and FeLV viruses are 
 related, but
  more recent research tends to show they are not just substrains 
 of the
 same
  virus.  The best that we can do for immune-compromised cats is to 
 providethem with
  the healthiest possible

Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

2005-07-06 Thread catatonya

Oh Kerry,

I am SO sorry! I can't believe she went downhill so quickly. I know you must just be in shock. I know I am. I'm glad that if this was going to happen it was now while you were with her. And it does sound like she wanted that too. I am so terribly sorry. Maybe being away for a while will be a good thing for you now. She is at peace and maybe the loss will be easier for you to get through being away from home for a bit.

Take care of yourself and have a safe trip.
tonyaKerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear allMy sweet, gorgeous little girl Flavia is gone.It all happened so quickly. When I went in to check on her at 9.30am (shehad seemed fine at 6am and later), she was hiding in the carrier, and seemedto be breathing more rapidly than the others. I also noticed than someonehad vomited--a first, if my memory serves me right, since they all arrivedin December 2003. I figured it was probably Flavia. Someone else has alsobeen urinating a little over the past few days out of the box--again, afirst. I thought it was probably Flavia.So, seeing her fast breathing, I panicked, and took her immediately to thevet I saw yesterday, Dr Teuber, and she confirmed that her respiratory ratehad increased since yesterday. We ran a PCV, and it had plummeted to 10,from 16 1/2 at 4pm yesterday.I actually think Flavia was ready. She didn't want to play at
all last night(she hasn't been able to play the way she used to--leaping in the air tocatch the "bug"--for a few weeks, presumably because she hasn't had theenergy). Her quality of life was going downhill. It's a pity we didn't get achance to use the IR, which I had had fedexed to 2 clinics. (Her IR wouldhave probably begun later this week--I had the housecall vet set up, andjust had to set a schedule.)I was/am a mess, but Flavia and I had a long cuddle, which was reallylovely, and helped a lot, for which I am very grateful. The vet was awonderful woman, who I only met yesterday (Dr Teuber at Higgins, Belinda--dotell your Chicago friend.). Looks like I may not have terminated myrelationship with Higgins after all...I am grateful that Flavia gave me the signs today, while I was still hereand able to help her.act on it immediately. The thought of her fighting forbreath for hours, or suffering in any way, while I was gone, and no
one hereapart from the petsitter 30 mins a day, was not something I could accept. (Idid not want to hospitalize her.)I'm going to miss her terribly. I loved that little soul. I've been a bit ofa mess over the thought of losing her for the last 2 weeks, and shed moretears than I thought humanly possible. She was a tabby, very feminine,elfin-faced, with streaks of auburn and coffee and cream on her undersideand a long, beautiful, elegant tail. Last night I stroked her with a featherfor a long time and she really enjoyed it--stretching luxuriously. And, ofcourse, she became much more willing to be stroked and held over the pastfew days.Thanks to everyone for their prayers and good wishes. If I'm not in touchagain today, I send lots of healing vibes for all the sick kitties, and I'llbe in touch again the weekend of the 23rd.Goodbye, my gorgeous Flavia.Kerry- Original Message -From:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:52 AMSubject: Re: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3...for Michelle L. Dear Michelle L.: There is no point (and much risk) in vaccinating an immune-compromised cat who is FIV+ or FeLV+. Vaccinations are an assault of sorts to the immunesystem and can be detrimental to even a cat with a normal immune system. Thereis much good info about the risks of vaccines on the website Holisticat.com,or I would recommend highly the book by Dr. Martin Goldstein, The Nature ofAnimal Healing. Some vets do still believe that the FIV and FeLV viruses are related, but more recent research tends to show they are not just substrains of thesame virus. The best that we can do for immune-compromised cats is to providethem with the healthiest possible diet, provide immune support
and protect them from exposure as best we can to undue stress to their immune system due toemotional challenges, enviromental toxins or other cats that may carry pathogensthat their immune system cannot withstand. Other cats are really more of athreat to the FIV+ or FeLV+ cat than vice versa. I have not done much research on FIV, but got a crash course on FeLV in '03-04 with two unrelated kittens I rescued in Oct. and Nov. '02 whoturned out to be FeLV+. The strain of FeLV virus (call it FeLV-A) that cats pass one to another causes significant immune suppression, but little else. It isthrough recombining with a cat's DNA and mutating that the more virulent subgroups occur, the FeLV-A+B that is associated with lymphoma or other cancers andFeLV-A+C that is associated with nonregenerative anemia/leukemia. In the worsecase scenario it is possible for both
subgroups to develop to FeLV-A+B+C. Atpresent the mechanism which

Flavia

2005-07-06 Thread JENNIFER RATLIFF


My thoughts and prayers are with you Kerry. I am glad you got to spend those last precious moments with your little angel.

RE: Pregnant women trying to get rid of her cats











I need a help  I have a colleague
who is trying to get rid of her two boy cats (declawed) sine she found out that
she is pregnant  she wanted to keep the cats since she has had them
since they were babies (they are now 4 years old), but her husband is panicking
over what her doctor said about danger of having cats around the pregnant woman,
and trying to get rid of the kitties. 



Does any have literature or anything I can
give to her to read so that its really not dangerous to have cats in
reality  I just never heard of anyone who is actually having a problem 
but am I wrong  any help is appreciated. Thank you!



Hideyo

Please add Snowball to CLS Belinda




It's been a painfulday. I lost my gentle giant Snowball this 
afternoon. I never expected that.
He was breathing rapidly when I got home from the clinic. I thought at 
first he was stressed because of losing his girlfriend Flavia. I couldn't take 
the risk, tho, so I rushed him to the clinic. His lungs were full of fluid. Only 
25 per cent was not full and even that was compromised. I discussed it with the 
same vet I saw this morning. I couldn't risk him dying while I was gone, and 
that seemed a very real possibility. 
Snowball was the biggest cat, a flamepoint, but he wouldn't hurt a soul. He 
was terribly timid. He stopped playing a couple of months ago, butI 
thought it was a lazy phase, because he had been pretty lazy before.
The other little ones would enjoy batting him when he was below them on the 
tree. He never batted them back. he was too gentle. He knew he could squash them 
if he wanted too, but he didn't want to hurt them.
I'm in shock for Snowball, and I guess Flavia, tho she has been so ill, and 
I need to process it.
Please send prayers for my remaining Mickey and Momcat. They are going to 
be feeling very down and scared, and I'm scared they'll stop eating.
I haven't read your replies yet because I just got back, and I have to 
leave in 30 mins, and I haven't finished packing.
But there were lots--I'm so grateful. I'll read them when I get back. 

love and hugs to all
Kerry
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:37 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Please add Flavia to CLS 
  Belinda
  
  I'm sorry, Kerry. If herPCV plummeted that fast, she probably 
  either had a bleed somewhere or was killing off her own red blood cells 
  (hemolytic anemia). That is what they told me with Simon when he went 
  from 16 to 8 overnight. 
  Michelle

RE: Please add Snowball to CLS Belinda









Kerry  I just cant believe
this is happening  I have to re-read your postings about three times to
see if I am reading it correctly  I am so very sorry, sometimes I wonder
if God exist  this is not right, you cant lose Flavia and
Snowball so suddenly so close to each other - the only thing I can think of is
that Snowball is such a gentle soul, he could not let Flavia cross the bridge
all by herself  so he decided to join her - the only comforting thing is
that now they are not alone  they are together  but still doesnt
justify what happened  I am so mad, Kerry, so mad about the disease 
this is just too much I HATE THIS DISEASE!!!



But I know Snowball and Flavia are no
longer in pain  their souls are probably doing just fine  (I know
it sounds strange, but I hope you know what I mean)  they are right next
each other and next to you.



I will be so praying Momcat and Mickey are
going to be just fine while you are gone..



Loves and hugs to you, Snowball, Flavia,
Momcat and Mickey



Hideyo









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kerry MacKenzie
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005
5:27 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Please add Snowball to CLS
Belinda







It's been a painfulday. I lost my gentle giant
Snowball this afternoon. I never expected that.





He was breathing rapidly when I got home from the clinic. I
thought at first he was stressed because of losing his girlfriend Flavia. I
couldn't take the risk, tho, so I rushed him to the clinic. His lungs were full
of fluid. Only 25 per cent was not full and even that was compromised. I
discussed it with the same vet I saw this morning. I couldn't risk him dying while
I was gone, and that seemed a very real possibility. 





Snowball was the biggest cat, a flamepoint, but he wouldn't
hurt a soul. He was terribly timid. He stopped playing a couple of months ago,
butI thought it was a lazy phase, because he had been pretty lazy before.





The other little ones would enjoy batting him when he was
below them on the tree. He never batted them back. he was too gentle. He knew
he could squash them if he wanted too, but he didn't want to hurt them.





I'm in shock for Snowball, and I guess Flavia, tho she has
been so ill, and I need to process it.





Please send prayers for my remaining Mickey and Momcat. They
are going to be feeling very down and scared, and I'm scared they'll stop
eating.





I haven't read your replies yet because I just got back, and
I have to leave in 30 mins, and I haven't finished packing.





But there were lots--I'm so grateful. I'll read them when I
get back. 





love and hugs to all





Kerry





- Original Message - 







From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org






Sent: Wednesday, July
06, 2005 12:37 PM





Subject: Re: Please add
Flavia to CLS Belinda











I'm sorry, Kerry. If herPCV plummeted that fast,
she probably either had a bleed somewhere or was killing off her own red blood
cells (hemolytic anemia). That is what they told me with Simon when he
went from 16 to 8 overnight. 





Michelle

Re: Pregnant women trying to get rid of her cats

2005-07-06 Thread Sally Quillian




They can have their cats tested for 
toxoplasmosis . . .if they test negative, then there is nothing to worry about . 
. .

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Hideyo Yamamoto 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 6:22 
  PM
  Subject: RE: Pregnant women trying to get 
  rid of her cats
  
  
  
  I need a help  I 
  have a colleague who is trying to get rid of her two boy cats (declawed) sine 
  she found out that she is pregnant  she wanted to keep the cats since she has 
  had them since they were babies (they are now 4 years old), but her husband is 
  panicking over what her doctor said about danger of having cats around the 
  pregnant woman, and trying to get rid of the kitties. 
  
  
  Does any have 
  literature or anything I can give to her to read so that its really not 
  dangerous to have cats in reality  I just never heard of anyone who is 
  actually having a problem  but am I wrong  any help is appreciated. 
  Thank you!
  
  Hideyo

Re: Please add Snowball to CLS Belinda

2005-07-06 Thread Gloria B. Lane

Kerry, I'm so very sorry - it sounds like just too much.  My thoughts and 
prayers go out to you - Gloria


At 06:26 PM 7/6/2005, you wrote:
It's been a painful day. I lost my gentle giant Snowball this afternoon. I 
never expected that.
He was breathing rapidly when I got home from the clinic. I thought at 
first he was stressed because of losing his girlfriend Flavia. I couldn't 
take the risk, tho, so I rushed him to the clinic. His lungs were full of 
fluid. Only 25 per cent was not full and even that was compromised. I 
discussed it with the same vet I saw this morning. I couldn't risk him 
dying while I was gone, and that seemed a very real possibility.
Snowball was the biggest cat, a flamepoint, but he wouldn't hurt a soul. 
He was terribly timid. He stopped playing a couple of months ago, but I 
thought it was a lazy phase, because he had been pretty lazy before.
The other little ones would enjoy batting him when he was below them on 
the tree. He never batted them back. he was too gentle. He knew he could 
squash them if he wanted too, but he didn't want to hurt them.
I'm in shock for Snowball, and I guess Flavia, tho she has been so ill, 
and I need to process it.
Please send prayers for my remaining Mickey and Momcat. They are going to 
be feeling very down and scared, and I'm scared they'll stop eating.
I haven't read your replies yet because I just got back, and I have to 
leave in 30 mins, and I haven't finished packing.

But there were lots--I'm so grateful. I'll read them when I get back.
love and hugs to all
Kerry
- Original Message -
From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

I'm sorry, Kerry.  If her PCV plummeted that fast, she probably either had 
a bleed somewhere or was killing off her own red blood cells (hemolytic 
anemia).  That is what they told me with Simon when he went from 16 to 8 
overnight.

Michelle

RE: Pregnant women trying to get rid of her cats

2005-07-06 Thread Gloria B. Lane

I always heard that cats only acquired it from eating raw meat (birds, 
mice, etc)...


Gloria

At 06:22 PM 7/6/2005, you wrote:
I need a help  I have a colleague who is trying to get rid of her two boy 
cats (declawed) sine she found out that she is pregnant  she wanted to 
keep the cats since she has had them since they were babies (they are now 
4 years old), but her husband is panicking over what her doctor said about 
danger of having cats around the pregnant woman, and trying to get rid of 
the kitties.


Does any have literature or anything I can give to her to read so that 
its really not dangerous to have cats in reality  I just never heard of 
anyone who is actually having a problem  but am I wrong  any help is 
appreciated.  Thank you!


Hideyo

Re: Please add Snowball and Flavia to CLS Belinda

2005-07-06 Thread Del Daniels




Kerry, This is unreal and never fair to lose two precious lovebugs 
the same day. How awful.
Big hugs,
Del

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kerry MacKenzie 
  
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 6:26 
  PM
  Subject: Please add Snowball to CLS 
  Belinda
  
  It's been a painfulday. I lost my gentle giant Snowball this 
  afternoon. I never expected that.
  He was breathing rapidly when I got home from the clinic. I thought at 
  first he was stressed because of losing his girlfriend Flavia. I couldn't take 
  the risk, tho, so I rushed him to the clinic. His lungs were full of fluid. 
  Only 25 per cent was not full and even that was compromised. I discussed it 
  with the same vet I saw this morning. I couldn't risk him dying while I was 
  gone, and that seemed a very real possibility. 
  Snowball was the biggest cat, a flamepoint, but he wouldn't hurt a soul. 
  He was terribly timid. He stopped playing a couple of months ago, butI 
  thought it was a lazy phase, because he had been pretty lazy before.
  The other little ones would enjoy batting him when he was below them on 
  the tree. He never batted them back. he was too gentle. He knew he could 
  squash them if he wanted too, but he didn't want to hurt them.
  I'm in shock for Snowball, and I guess Flavia, tho she has been so ill, 
  and I need to process it.
  Please send prayers for my remaining Mickey and Momcat. They are going to 
  be feeling very down and scared, and I'm scared they'll stop eating.
  I haven't read your replies yet because I just got back, and I have to 
  leave in 30 mins, and I haven't finished packing.
  But there were lots--I'm so grateful. I'll read them when I get back. 
  
  love and hugs to all
  Kerry
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 

Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:37 
PM
Subject: Re: Please add Flavia to CLS 
Belinda

I'm sorry, Kerry. If herPCV plummeted that fast, she 
probably either had a bleed somewhere or was killing off her own red blood 
cells (hemolytic anemia). That is what they told me with Simon when he 
went from 16 to 8 overnight. 
Michelle

Re: Please add Snowball to CLS Belinda

Her doctor's concern is probably over the danger of the cats shedding 
Toxoplasmosis in their droppings. If she really wants to keep her cats, 
all she has to do is bring them to the vet and find out if they have the 
damn disease. There's no danger to her, even if they have been exposed, 
if her husband will clean the litter boxes while she's pregnant. Tell 
her to ask her doctor exactly what his fears are in regard to the cats. 
Then get me the damn doctor's address so I can throw eggs at his house.

Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:

Kerry – I just can’t believe this is happening – I have to re-read 
your postings about three times to see if I am reading it correctly – 
I am so very sorry, sometimes I wonder if God exist – this is not 
right, you can’t lose Flavia and Snowball so suddenly so close to each 
other - the only thing I can think of is that Snowball is such a 
gentle soul, he could not let Flavia cross the bridge all by herself – 
so he decided to join her - the only comforting thing is that now they 
are not alone – they are together – but still doesn’t justify what 
happened – I am so mad, Kerry, so mad about the disease – this is just 
too much –I HATE THIS DISEASE!!!


But I know Snowball and Flavia are no longer in pain – their souls are 
probably doing just fine – (I know it sounds strange, but I hope you 
know what I mean) – they are right next each other and next to you….


I will be so praying Momcat and Mickey are going to be just fine while 
you are gone..


Loves and hugs to you, Snowball, Flavia, Momcat and Mickey

Hideyo



*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Kerry 
MacKenzie

*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2005 5:27 PM
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* Please add Snowball to CLS Belinda

It's been a painful day. I lost my gentle giant Snowball this 
afternoon. I never expected that.


He was breathing rapidly when I got home from the clinic. I thought at 
first he was stressed because of losing his girlfriend Flavia. I 
couldn't take the risk, tho, so I rushed him to the clinic. His lungs 
were full of fluid. Only 25 per cent was not full and even that was 
compromised. I discussed it with the same vet I saw this morning. I 
couldn't risk him dying while I was gone, and that seemed a very real 
possibility.


Snowball was the biggest cat, a flamepoint, but he wouldn't hurt a 
soul. He was terribly timid. He stopped playing a couple of months 
ago, but I thought it was a lazy phase, because he had been pretty 
lazy before.


The other little ones would enjoy batting him when he was below them 
on the tree. He never batted them back. he was too gentle. He knew he 
could squash them if he wanted too, but he didn't want to hurt them.


I'm in shock for Snowball, and I guess Flavia, tho she has been so 
ill, and I need to process it.


Please send prayers for my remaining Mickey and Momcat. They are going 
to be feeling very down and scared, and I'm scared they'll stop eating.


I haven't read your replies yet because I just got back, and I have to 
leave in 30 mins, and I haven't finished packing.


But there were lots--I'm so grateful. I'll read them when I get back.

love and hugs to all

Kerry

- Original Message -

*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:37 PM

*Subject:* Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

I'm sorry, Kerry. If her PCV plummeted that fast, she probably
either had a bleed somewhere or was killing off her own red blood
cells (hemolytic anemia). That is what they told me with Simon
when he went from 16 to 8 overnight.

Michelle

Re: Pregnant women trying to get rid of her cats

I'm sorry I just replied to this question on Kerry's thread about losing 
her Snowball.

Nina

Hideyo Yamamoto wrote:

I need a help – I have a colleague who is trying to get rid of her two 
boy cats (declawed) sine she found out that she is pregnant – she 
wanted to keep the cats since she has had them since they were babies 
(they are now 4 years old), but her husband is panicking over what her 
doctor said about danger of having cats around the pregnant woman, and 
trying to get rid of the kitties.


Does any have literature or anything I can give to her to read so that 
it’s really not dangerous to have cats in reality – I just never heard 
of anyone who is actually having a problem – but am I wrong – any help 
is appreciated. Thank you!


Hideyo

Re: Please add Snowball to CLS Belinda


Dearest Kerry,
I don't even know what to say.  I'm dumbstruck.  I can't imagine what 
you're going through right now.  I'm walking around numb just thinking 
about you losing two babies on the same day.  I'm so very sorry that 
this has happened.  My deepest condolences to you, Momcat and Mickey.  I 
keep trying to think of what else I could possibly say and instead I'm 
just sitting here with my fingers on the keyboard shaking my head in 
denial.  Know that I'm with you in your sadness.

Much love,
Nina

Kerry MacKenzie wrote:

It's been a painful day. I lost my gentle giant Snowball this 
afternoon. I never expected that.
He was breathing rapidly when I got home from the clinic. I thought at 
first he was stressed because of losing his girlfriend Flavia. I 
couldn't take the risk, tho, so I rushed him to the clinic. His lungs 
were full of fluid. Only 25 per cent was not full and even that was 
compromised. I discussed it with the same vet I saw this morning. I 
couldn't risk him dying while I was gone, and that seemed a very real 
possibility.
Snowball was the biggest cat, a flamepoint, but he wouldn't hurt a 
soul. He was terribly timid. He stopped playing a couple of months 
ago, but I thought it was a lazy phase, because he had been pretty 
lazy before.
The other little ones would enjoy batting him when he was below them 
on the tree. He never batted them back. he was too gentle. He knew he 
could squash them if he wanted too, but he didn't want to hurt them.
I'm in shock for Snowball, and I guess Flavia, tho she has been so 
ill, and I need to process it.
Please send prayers for my remaining Mickey and Momcat. They are going 
to be feeling very down and scared, and I'm scared they'll stop eating.
I haven't read your replies yet because I just got back, and I have to 
leave in 30 mins, and I haven't finished packing.

But there were lots--I'm so grateful. I'll read them when I get back.
love and hugs to all
Kerry
- Original Message -

*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

I'm sorry, Kerry.  If her PCV plummeted that fast, she probably
either had a bleed somewhere or was killing off her own red blood
cells (hemolytic anemia).  That is what they told me with Simon
when he went from 16 to 8 overnight. 
Michelle

cats and pregnant women

2005-07-06 Thread Kathy Gittel

: From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Subject: RE: Pregnant women trying to get rid of her cats
: To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

Here's one article. If you do a search on cats and pregnant woment, 
you'll come up with scads of information to give your friend. My 
suggestion is that she get a new doctor and give her husband valium.
Kathy Gittel
___
Congratulations! says your doctor, You're pregnant. It's happy 
news. But then the doctor asks if you have a cat, and tells you 
solemnly not to scoop the litter box. Doctors understandably like to 
play it safe, but it's not necessary to overreact, especially when it 
comes to your cat and your health during pregnancy. Cats and pregnant 
women can co-exist safely -- and have been doing so for thousands of 
years.

The concern, small though it is, regards a parasite called toxoplasma 
gondii, which can cause an infection called toxoplasmosis. Cats are 
one of the hosts that can carry and pass this parasite to humans 
through infectious cysts shed in their stool. While toxoplasmosis 
generally causes mild flu-like symptoms in humans that resolve on 
their own in a few days, it is very dangerous to fetuses in the first 
trimester of pregnancy.

However, that said, toxoplasmosis is only infectious under extremely 
particular -- and unlikely -- circumstances. A lot of things have to 
happen, says Drew Weigner, DVM, a board-certified feline specialist. 
A cat has to get a recent infection, it has to be shedding the cysts, 
the stool has to have been in the litter box for more than 24 hours, 
you'd have to get some of the stool in your mouth or eye, and you'd 
have to be in your first trimester -- all of those things would have 
to happen.

Cats shed toxoplasma cysts (the egg stage) in their feces three to 10 
days after eating infected tissues. They will shed the cysts for up to 
14 days, and afterward it is unlikely that they will ever shed them 
again -- even after repeated exposure. So only a recent infection is 
contagious. In order to get a recent infection, your cat would have to 
have eaten an infected mouse, which can only happen if your cat hunts 
outdoors or if you have a current rodent infestation -- which, as 
Weigner points out, generally doesn't if there is indeed a cat living 
in your house.

Indoor cats that do not hunt have virtually no risk of infection, 
says Elaine Wexler-Mitchell, DVM, ABVP diplomate in feline practice at 
The Cat Care Clinic in Orange, California. No risk, that is, unless 
they are on a raw food diet. That's because the parasite is 
transmissible to both cats and humans through raw or undercooked meat. 
In fact, your chances of contracting toxoplasmosis are much, much 
greater by handling raw meat or gardening in infected soil than by 
getting it from your cat.

Even if your cat does go outside or has caught a mouse recently, 
there's still no need to worry. The cysts do not become infectious to 
other animals and humans until one to four days have passed. So if you 
scoop the litter box promptly, you've avoided the problem.

To be extra safe, Weigner suggests having someone else scoop and 
change the litter for you. He suggests single mothers wear gloves and 
use litter box liners -- that minimizes the risk of missing any stool 
hiding under the litter or on the side of the box. Wearing a mask 
while changing the litter isn't necessary, as the cyst is too heavy to 
stay airborne for long. During the first trimester, if there is no one 
else to take over litter box duties, I wouldn't scoop the litter 
every 24 hours; I would change it every 24 hours, Weigner says.

And remember, even if you get a microscopic cyst on your hand, you'd 
have to touch your mouth or your eye without washing your hands to 
become infected. Who doesn't wash their hands after scooping the 
litter box? Really, the bottom line, if you have a cat, whether it 
goes outside or not, is get someone else to change the litter box, 
wash your hands after you pet your cat, and don't worry about it after 
the first few months anyway, says Weigner.

Cats and pregnant moms can peacefully co-exist, he says.. You always 
have to follow your obstetrician's advice -- unless they advise you to 
get rid of your cat. If they say that, then they don't know about 
toxoplasmosis and that means they're out of date.  :

I need a help - I have a colleague who is trying to get rid of her
two
: boy cats (declawed) sine she found out that she is pregnant - she
wanted
: to keep the cats since she has had them since they were babies (they
are
: now 4 years old), but her husband is panicking over what her doctor
said
: about danger of having cats around the pregnant woman, and trying to
get
: rid of the kitties.
:
:
:
: Does any have literature or anything I can give to her to read so
that
: it's really not dangerous to have cats in reality - I just never
heard
: of anyone who is actually having a

Pregnant women...response to Nina





Me too...I would like to do the same thing!
God what a crock of sh*t!!!
I know this happens but there is such a thing as common sense.

In a message dated 7/6/2005 6:14:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
There's no danger to her, even if they have been exposed, if her husband will clean the litter boxes while she's pregnant.Tell her to ask her doctor exactly what his fears are in regard to the cats. Then get me the damn doctor's address so I can throw eggs at his house.Nina


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Re: cats and pregnant women

Thanks Kathy for the article.  I guess education is a better idea than 
egging the doctor's house :).

Nina

Kathy Gittel wrote:


: From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Subject: RE: Pregnant women trying to get rid of her cats
: To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

Here's one article. If you do a search on cats and pregnant woment, 
you'll come up with scads of information to give your friend. My 
suggestion is that she get a new doctor and give her husband valium.

Kathy Gittel
___
Congratulations! says your doctor, You're pregnant. It's happy 
news. But then the doctor asks if you have a cat, and tells you 
solemnly not to scoop the litter box. Doctors understandably like to 
play it safe, but it's not necessary to overreact, especially when it 
comes to your cat and your health during pregnancy. Cats and pregnant 
women can co-exist safely -- and have been doing so for thousands of 
years.


The concern, small though it is, regards a parasite called toxoplasma 
gondii, which can cause an infection called toxoplasmosis. Cats are 
one of the hosts that can carry and pass this parasite to humans 
through infectious cysts shed in their stool. While toxoplasmosis 
generally causes mild flu-like symptoms in humans that resolve on 
their own in a few days, it is very dangerous to fetuses in the first 
trimester of pregnancy.


However, that said, toxoplasmosis is only infectious under extremely 
particular -- and unlikely -- circumstances. A lot of things have to 
happen, says Drew Weigner, DVM, a board-certified feline specialist. 
A cat has to get a recent infection, it has to be shedding the cysts, 
the stool has to have been in the litter box for more than 24 hours, 
you'd have to get some of the stool in your mouth or eye, and you'd 
have to be in your first trimester -- all of those things would have 
to happen.


Cats shed toxoplasma cysts (the egg stage) in their feces three to 10 
days after eating infected tissues. They will shed the cysts for up to 
14 days, and afterward it is unlikely that they will ever shed them 
again -- even after repeated exposure. So only a recent infection is 
contagious. In order to get a recent infection, your cat would have to 
have eaten an infected mouse, which can only happen if your cat hunts 
outdoors or if you have a current rodent infestation -- which, as 
Weigner points out, generally doesn't if there is indeed a cat living 
in your house.


Indoor cats that do not hunt have virtually no risk of infection, 
says Elaine Wexler-Mitchell, DVM, ABVP diplomate in feline practice at 
The Cat Care Clinic in Orange, California. No risk, that is, unless 
they are on a raw food diet. That's because the parasite is 
transmissible to both cats and humans through raw or undercooked meat. 
In fact, your chances of contracting toxoplasmosis are much, much 
greater by handling raw meat or gardening in infected soil than by 
getting it from your cat.


Even if your cat does go outside or has caught a mouse recently, 
there's still no need to worry. The cysts do not become infectious to 
other animals and humans until one to four days have passed. So if you 
scoop the litter box promptly, you've avoided the problem.


To be extra safe, Weigner suggests having someone else scoop and 
change the litter for you. He suggests single mothers wear gloves and 
use litter box liners -- that minimizes the risk of missing any stool 
hiding under the litter or on the side of the box. Wearing a mask 
while changing the litter isn't necessary, as the cyst is too heavy to 
stay airborne for long. During the first trimester, if there is no one 
else to take over litter box duties, I wouldn't scoop the litter 
every 24 hours; I would change it every 24 hours, Weigner says.


And remember, even if you get a microscopic cyst on your hand, you'd 
have to touch your mouth or your eye without washing your hands to 
become infected. Who doesn't wash their hands after scooping the 
litter box? Really, the bottom line, if you have a cat, whether it 
goes outside or not, is get someone else to change the litter box, 
wash your hands after you pet your cat, and don't worry about it after 
the first few months anyway, says Weigner.


Cats and pregnant moms can peacefully co-exist, he says.. You always 
have to follow your obstetrician's advice -- unless they advise you to 
get rid of your cat. If they say that, then they don't know about 
toxoplasmosis and that means they're out of date.

Re: Please add Snowball to CLS Belinda

Kerry,
Oh my god...you are in my thoughts and prayers for losing two in a 24 hr period. My heart goes all out to you and the other furbabies you have. (Momcat and Mickey)
Please care of yourself and we are here for you

In a message dated 7/6/2005 4:25:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

It's been a painfulday. I lost my gentle giant Snowball this afternoon. I never expected that.
He was breathing rapidly when I got home from the clinic. I thought at first he was stressed because of losing his girlfriend Flavia. I couldn't take the risk, tho, so I rushed him to the clinic. His lungs were full of fluid. Only 25 per cent was not full and even that was compromised. I discussed it with the same vet I saw this morning. I couldn't risk him dying while I was gone, and that seemed a very real possibility.
Snowball was the biggest cat, a flamepoint, but he wouldn't hurt a soul. He was terribly timid. He stopped playing a couple of months ago, butI thought it was a lazy phase, because he had been pretty lazy before.
The other little ones would enjoy batting him when he was below them on the tree. He never batted them back. he was too gentle. He knew he could squash them if he wanted too, but he didn't want to hurt them.
I'm in shock for Snowball, and I guess Flavia, tho she has been so ill, and I need to process it.
Please send prayers for my remaining Mickey and Momcat. They are going to be feeling very down and scared, and I'm scared they'll stop eating.
I haven't read your replies yet because I just got back, and I have to leave in 30 mins, and I haven't finished packing.
But there were lots--I'm so grateful. I'll read them when I get back.
love and hugs to all
Kerry

Terrie MohrCheck site for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYShttps://www.paypal.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttp://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/Click Here to Join WASHINGTON SIAMESE RESCUE Yahoo Group!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescueClick Here to Join K9 and Puddy Xpress Yahoo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9andPuddyXpress/joinhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet!http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.orecatay.com/http://www.awca.net/index.htmhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/http://www.meezer.com/http://thesiamesestore.com/http://tx.siameserescue.org/adopt.htmlhttp://ca.siameserescue.org/Southern CA. Siamese Rescuehttp://cs.siameserescue.org/Northern CA. Siamese Rescuehttp://cn.siameserescue.org/http://co.siameserescue.org/http://va.siameserescue.org/

Sad News-Katie Tetley

Some of you may not have known Katie Tetley, personally. Iam sending this to as many rescues as I could to be sure all would have this tragic news.

Katie Tetley, along with numerous animals, died in her home yesterday as a result of an electrical fire. I believe her beloved "Cookie" was one of the survivors but is badly burned and just hanging in there. 11 cats, conditions not known, also survived and are at the Abita Springs shelter. Her Jazz (Sharpei) and a Sharpei foster(Jo-lee)perished with her.Her husband Fred was at work and is okay.

Funeral services are incomplete at this time but this is what I know. Tentative viewing will be Sunday at Hanacher Funeral Home in Slidell, La. with burial services on Monday.

I believe Cookie is at the Ponchartrain Animal Hospital. All other dogs died in the home.
Please keep Katie and all of her rescues, who perished with her, in your prayers; most important, for Fred who is devastated at the loss of his wife, animals and home.

Lou Weiner -
North American Sharpei Rescue - Louisiana
CHI PP Rescue of Louisiana
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

cats and pregnant women

2005-07-06 Thread Kathy Gittel

Oh, I don't know - I just don't think eggs make a strong enough 
statementburning cat feces comes to mind
Kathy

From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: cats and pregnant women


Thanks Kathy for the article.  I guess education is a better idea than
egging the doctor's house :).
Nina

Re: Please add Snowball to CLS Belinda

Oh Kerry, I can only imagine what you are going through. I am so sorry it was his time and so close to Flavia's. Our thoughts and tears are with you and yours
HUGSKerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




It's been a painfulday. I lost my gentle giant Snowball this afternoon. I never expected that.
He was breathing rapidly when I got home from the clinic. I thought at first he was stressed because of losing his girlfriend Flavia. I couldn't take the risk, tho, so I rushed him to the clinic. His lungs were full of fluid. Only 25 per cent was not full and even that was compromised. I discussed it with the same vet I saw this morning. I couldn't risk him dying while I was gone, and that seemed a very real possibility. 
Snowball was the biggest cat, a flamepoint, but he wouldn't hurt a soul. He was terribly timid. He stopped playing a couple of months ago, butI thought it was a lazy phase, because he had been pretty lazy before.
The other little ones would enjoy batting him when he was below them on the tree. He never batted them back. he was too gentle. He knew he could squash them if he wanted too, but he didn't want to hurt them.
I'm in shock for Snowball, and I guess Flavia, tho she has been so ill, and I need to process it.
Please send prayers for my remaining Mickey and Momcat. They are going to be feeling very down and scared, and I'm scared they'll stop eating.
I haven't read your replies yet because I just got back, and I have to leave in 30 mins, and I haven't finished packing.
But there were lots--I'm so grateful. I'll read them when I get back. 
love and hugs to all
Kerry
- Original Message - 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

I'm sorry, Kerry. If herPCV plummeted that fast, she probably either had a bleed somewhere or was killing off her own red blood cells (hemolytic anemia). That is what they told me with Simon when he went from 16 to 8 overnight. 
MichelleBarb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown:  paying no mind to whom he should impress.  Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile."- Anonymous
		 Sell on Yahoo! Auctions  - No fees. Bid on great items.

Re: Please add Snowball to CLS Belinda

Oh Kerry, I can only imagine what you are going through. I am so sorry it was his time and so close to Flavia's. Our thoughts and tears are with you and yours
HUGSKerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




It's been a painfulday. I lost my gentle giant Snowball this afternoon. I never expected that.
He was breathing rapidly when I got home from the clinic. I thought at first he was stressed because of losing his girlfriend Flavia. I couldn't take the risk, tho, so I rushed him to the clinic. His lungs were full of fluid. Only 25 per cent was not full and even that was compromised. I discussed it with the same vet I saw this morning. I couldn't risk him dying while I was gone, and that seemed a very real possibility. 
Snowball was the biggest cat, a flamepoint, but he wouldn't hurt a soul. He was terribly timid. He stopped playing a couple of months ago, butI thought it was a lazy phase, because he had been pretty lazy before.
The other little ones would enjoy batting him when he was below them on the tree. He never batted them back. he was too gentle. He knew he could squash them if he wanted too, but he didn't want to hurt them.
I'm in shock for Snowball, and I guess Flavia, tho she has been so ill, and I need to process it.
Please send prayers for my remaining Mickey and Momcat. They are going to be feeling very down and scared, and I'm scared they'll stop eating.
I haven't read your replies yet because I just got back, and I have to leave in 30 mins, and I haven't finished packing.
But there were lots--I'm so grateful. I'll read them when I get back. 
love and hugs to all
Kerry
- Original Message - 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Please add Flavia to CLS Belinda

I'm sorry, Kerry. If herPCV plummeted that fast, she probably either had a bleed somewhere or was killing off her own red blood cells (hemolytic anemia). That is what they told me with Simon when he went from 16 to 8 overnight. 
MichelleBarb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown:  paying no mind to whom he should impress.  Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile."- Anonymous
		 Sell on Yahoo! Auctions  - No fees. Bid on great items.

Re: cats and pregnant women

2005-07-06 Thread Tad Burnett





In all fairness to the docs...Even though the risk is
very very small if you should be the unlucky one out of a million it
can result in very sever brain damage to your baby...
Ask your doc to compare the risk with the chance of brain damage from
being in a car accidentYour doc will get a very sheepish look but
he probably won't answer
Life is a risk...
Tad

Kathy Gittel wrote:

  : From: "Hideyo Yamamoto" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Subject: RE: Pregnant women trying to get rid of her cats
: To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

Here's one article. If you do a search on "cats and pregnant woment", 
you'll come up with scads of information to give your friend. My 
suggestion is that she get a new doctor and give her husband valium.
Kathy Gittel
___
"Congratulations!" says your doctor, "You're pregnant." It's happy 
news. But then the doctor asks if you have a cat, and tells you 
solemnly not to scoop the litter box. Doctors understandably like to 
play it safe, but it's not necessary to overreact, especially when it 
comes to your cat and your health during pregnancy. Cats and pregnant 
women can co-exist safely -- and have been doing so for thousands of 
years.

The concern, small though it is, regards a parasite called toxoplasma 
gondii, which can cause an infection called toxoplasmosis. Cats are 
one of the hosts that can carry and pass this parasite to humans 
through infectious cysts shed in their stool. While toxoplasmosis 
generally causes mild flu-like symptoms in humans that resolve on 
their own in a few days, it is very dangerous to fetuses in the first 
trimester of pregnancy.

However, that said, toxoplasmosis is only infectious under extremely 
particular -- and unlikely -- circumstances. "A lot of things have to 
happen," says Drew Weigner, DVM, a board-certified feline specialist. 
"A cat has to get a recent infection, it has to be shedding the cysts, 
the stool has to have been in the litter box for more than 24 hours, 
you'd have to get some of the stool in your mouth or eye, and you'd 
have to be in your first trimester -- all of those things would have 
to happen."

Cats shed toxoplasma cysts (the egg stage) in their feces three to 10 
days after eating infected tissues. They will shed the cysts for up to 
14 days, and afterward it is unlikely that they will ever shed them 
again -- even after repeated exposure. So only a recent infection is 
contagious. In order to get a recent infection, your cat would have to 
have eaten an infected mouse, which can only happen if your cat hunts 
outdoors or if you have a current rodent infestation -- which, as 
Weigner points out, generally doesn't if there is indeed a cat living 
in your house.

"Indoor cats that do not hunt have virtually no risk of infection," 
says Elaine Wexler-Mitchell, DVM, ABVP diplomate in feline practice at 
The Cat Care Clinic in Orange, California. No risk, that is, unless 
they are on a raw food diet. That's because the parasite is 
transmissible to both cats and humans through raw or undercooked meat. 
In fact, your chances of contracting toxoplasmosis are much, much 
greater by handling raw meat or gardening in infected soil than by 
getting it from your cat.

Even if your cat does go outside or has caught a mouse recently, 
there's still no need to worry. The cysts do not become infectious to 
other animals and humans until one to four days have passed. So if you 
scoop the litter box promptly, you've avoided the problem.

To be extra safe, Weigner suggests having someone else scoop and 
change the litter for you. He suggests single mothers wear gloves and 
use litter box liners -- that minimizes the risk of missing any stool 
hiding under the litter or on the side of the box. Wearing a mask 
while changing the litter isn't necessary, as the cyst is too heavy to 
stay airborne for long. During the first trimester, if there is no one 
else to take over litter box duties, "I wouldn't scoop the litter 
every 24 hours; I would change it every 24 hours," Weigner says.

And remember, even if you get a microscopic cyst on your hand, you'd 
have to touch your mouth or your eye without washing your hands to 
become infected. Who doesn't wash their hands after scooping the 
litter box? "Really, the bottom line, if you have a cat, whether it 
goes outside or not, is get someone else to change the litter box, 
wash your hands after you pet your cat, and don't worry about it after 
the first few months anyway," says Weigner.

"Cats and pregnant moms can peacefully co-exist," he says.. You always 
have to follow your obstetrician's advice -- unless they advise you to 
get rid of your cat. If they say that, then they don't know about 
toxoplasmosis and that means they're out of date."  :

I need a help - I have a colleague who is trying to get rid of her
two
: boy cats (declawed) sine she found out that she is pregnant - she
wanted
: to keep the cats since

OT:getting flea topicals on a cat who doesn't like contact

2005-07-06 Thread AnnLmla2

Hi everybody,
 Just wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to get some Revolution on a cat (my boy, Simms, FeLV+ carrier) that doesn't like to be touched much. Simms has been scratching a lot lately. He is such a sweetheart but being tricky with me. I have actually gotten my hands on him twice but somehow he struggles so well and fast and hard that it stuns me how quick he can ditch my grasp. I have tried putting his favorite treat on a dish in the bathroom and put a rope on the doorknob and when he entered once, I pulled the rope from around the corner, but no dice, he was too quick. I have had luck with a big fishing net in the past, once with him, but he is wise to that trick, too, now. I tried casually dropping a blanket on him but he caught on to that really quickly. I have a humane live trap but it would be pretty difficult to get him hungry enough for that to work with my feeding all my other cats twice a day plus my greedier cats would probably have to be busted all the time, ha. 

 Anybody been in this situation and have some tips for me and my boy? 

Anne and Jimi Too Cool, Simms and Sophie, among other furry friends in MI

Sad News-Katie Tetley

Some of you may not have known Katie Tetley, personally. Iam sending this to as many rescues as I could to be sure all would have this tragic news.

Funeral services are incomplete at this time but this is what I know. Tentative viewing will be Sunday at Hanacher Funeral Home in Slidell, La. with burial services on Monday.

Katie was involved in several rescue groups, and I am hoping that one of you viewing this message is able to get in touch with the cat rescue group in Atlanta, who she volunteered with a lot. I am not sure of the name, and all of her records burned, so her husband doesn't have any information.
I believe Cookie is at the Ponchartrain Animal Hospital. All other dogs died in the home.
Please keep Katie and all of her rescues, who perished with her, in your prayers; most important, for Fred who is devastated at the loss of his wife, animals and home.

Lou Weiner -
North American Sharpei Rescue - Louisiana
CHI PP Rescue of Louisiana
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: transfer factor

2005-07-06 Thread Paul Jr

I vaguly remeber a website about Transfer Factor can
someone point me int he right direction? Also what is
the diffrence between giving an FELV+ cat Interferon
vs. Transfer Factor? If anyone remebers I asked about
Misha, my darling skinny calico, who is almost 7 years
old and FeLV+ and on Science Diet I/D dry cat food and
has on/off ( alot on, runny bowels).  Thanks for your
help!
Melody

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -   
CFAITH - Your Online Faith Family - http://www.cfaith.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Re: OT:getting flea topicals on a cat who doesn't like contact


Hi Anne,
I have a couple of ferals that let me stand very close to them while 
they eat.  When it's time to dose them with flea meds I give them 
something extra special and squat next to them.  Very casually, get the 
tube over their neck as close into the fur as you can to the skin and 
squeeze!  I know it says to part the hair and get it on their skin, but 
so far getting it into their fur and close to the skin, (make it one 
quick motion), has been enough to rid them of fleas.  You'll probably 
have to wait a couple of days, since Simms is most likely pretty leary 
of you at the moment.  Since Revolution isn't oil based, (like 
Advantage), the cats don't seem to object to it as much.  Did you read 
the warnings about flea meds that have been posted lately?  Revolution 
is more dangerous than Advantage, especially if there are any breaks in 
the skin.  Michelle L. suspects that Revolution caused her cat Bramble 
to have seizures.  You should never use it on sick, old, or very young 
cats.  Here's a quote from the vet on my IBD list: Neither product 
[advantage or frontline] is absorbed systemically so the margin of 
safety is very wide.  This is in contrast to Revolution which is a 
prescription-only flea product but is also absorbed internally to kill 
internal parasites.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi everybody,
Just wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to get some 
Revolution on a cat (my boy, Simms, FeLV+ carrier) that doesn't like 
to be touched much.  Simms has been scratching a lot lately.  He is 
such a sweetheart but being tricky with me.  I have actually gotten my 
hands on him twice but somehow he struggles so well and fast and hard 
that it stuns me how quick he can ditch my grasp.  I have tried 
putting his favorite treat on a dish in the bathroom and put a rope on 
the doorknob and when he entered once, I pulled the rope from around 
the corner, but no dice, he was too quick.  I have had luck with a big 
fishing net in the past, once with him, but he is wise to that trick, 
too, now.  I tried casually dropping a blanket on him but he caught on 
to that really quickly.  I have a humane live trap but it would be 
pretty difficult to get him hungry enough for that to work with my 
feeding all my other cats twice a day plus my greedier cats would 
probably have to be busted all the time, ha. 

Anybody been in this situation and have some tips for me and my boy? 


Anne and Jimi Too Cool, Simms and Sophie, among other furry friends in MI

RE: Pregnant women trying to get rid of her cats

2005-07-06 Thread EWagner7701

Hideyo,
For your coworker who thinks she has to get rid of her cats. Oh dear!! Has she talked to her doctor? We had the 2 cats when I found out I was pregnant, and then we got the 3rd FeLV-FIV cat. The doctor was more concerned that I take good care of my kitties than of anything happening. All the pregnancy books I have say just don't change litter, which corresponds to the advice I have recieved here, at the Dr., and from the vet. How awful of her husband! Maybe he just doesn't want to change litter. I will be hoping that you can help change her mind. I would urge her to talk to her doctor. That should be helpful...
Erika

Re: transfer factor