Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
On 2012-07-05 00:06, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Oh, and boy hasn't that resulted in a TON of great products and updates from MakeMusic….I mean, MusicXML is taking the world by storm….. Yes, MusicXML is very widely used for notation conversion. And I believe MusicXML was just one of the reasons for merging with Recordare. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
On 7/5/2012 4:06 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote: On 2012-07-05 00:06, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Oh, and boy hasn't that resulted in a TON of great products and updates from MakeMusic….I mean, MusicXML is taking the world by storm….. Yes, MusicXML is very widely used for notation conversion. And I believe MusicXML was just one of the reasons for merging with Recordare. Curious -- what else did Recordare do? -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
On 7/4/2012 3:06 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Indeed. It would have made MORE sense to acquire TGTools than the also-ran Garritan. They may have tried and Tobias may well have said No. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
On 7/4/2012 6:06 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Oh, and boy hasn't that resulted in a TON of great products and updates from MakeMusic….I mean, MusicXML is taking the world by storm….. Sarcasm aside, MusicXML has slowly been expanding its place in the computer/music world, providing an inter-application file transfer capability that was lacking. It was never meant to take the world by storm. And it has provided the often longed-for backward compatibility issue for Finale users, even if only back to the first version of Finale that included MusicXML import capabilities. I hope that MusicXML can continue it's slow but steady expansion into other music applications. In my opinion buying MusicXML made more sense than buying Garritan. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
On 7/4/2012 2:35 PM, Henry Howey wrote: I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. MakeMusic MUST acquire and maintain TGTOOLS. I'm sure Garritan and MusicXML were not cheap. TGTOOLS would be much less. MakeMusic acquiring TGTools would depend on Tobias's willingness to sell -- not everything is for sale and he might simply pull the plug on the whole thing. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
On 2012-07-04 22:34, John Blane wrote: I can't help thinking that if MM ever had a handle on how we worked with Finale, they might have integrated the kinds of plug-ins and innovations we have come to depend on Tobias for. They are indispensable, indeed. I would not assume that MM could pick up where he left off or maintain TGTools as is. MM has redesigned the staff systems in each of the last 2 versions among other improvements/changes. It is no wonder that TGTools doesn't work the same in this area without an update from Tobias. Technically, there's just a change regarding the staves in Fin2011. The Fin2012 changes is mainly UI changes. An idea regarding TGTools (along the lines of MM buing it) would perhaps be to see if a Kickstarter account could be set up to buy TGTools to put it as open source? Please be aware though, that the Windows version might be very dependent on Borland's compilers. It seems to me that Jari is our future and is slowly providing all of the functionality of TGTools and then some that is up-to-date. It may be more beneficial for us to support his efforts than to look to MM to fill these needs. I'm not your future. ;-) I create what I need. A while ago, I decided to not be dependent on TGTools, and ideally I don't want to be dependent on most of the built-in plug-ins, the Utilities menu or the Layout Tool or Special Tools. JW Change is the first plug-in that's fully using this approach. However, I'm dependent on Robert Patterson's plug-ins, plug-ins which I think are very good! Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
On 2012-07-05 11:40, David H. Bailey wrote: Curious -- what else did Recordare do? I don't think the merge is just about buying existing products, it's more long-term than that. What Gary and Michael can add to MM might very well show up in the next major Finale release. To me, both the Recordare and Garritan purchases is very logical. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. MakeMusic MUST acquire and maintain TGTOOLS. I'm sure Garritan and MusicXML were not cheap. TGTOOLS would be much less. Henry Howey Sent from my iWhatever ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
Totally agree. TGTools is perhaps one of the only reasons I use Finale over Sibelius. They are absolutely essential. -- Eric Dannewitz Musician/Polymath/Evil Genius http://www.ericdannewitz.com/ iMessage ericdannew...@me.com On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Henry Howey wrote: I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. MakeMusic MUST acquire and maintain TGTOOLS. I'm sure Garritan and MusicXML were not cheap. TGTOOLS would be much less. Henry Howey Sent from my iWhatever ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu (mailto:Finale@shsu.edu) http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
On Jul 4, 2012, at 11:35 AM, Henry Howey wrote: I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. MakeMusic MUST acquire and maintain TGTOOLS. Is there a way to make a me too list and send it to MM to emphasize this point? It may something about which all serious users of Finale can agree. Chuck I'm sure Garritan and MusicXML were not cheap. TGTOOLS would be much less. Henry Howey Sent from my iWhatever ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraels.com www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
Indeed. It would have made MORE sense to acquire TGTools than the also-ran Garritan. -- On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: On Jul 4, 2012, at 11:35 AM, Henry Howey wrote: I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. MakeMusic MUST acquire and maintain TGTOOLS. Is there a way to make a me too list and send it to MM to emphasize this point? It may something about which all serious users of Finale can agree. Chuck I'm sure Garritan and MusicXML were not cheap. TGTOOLS would be much less. Henry Howey Sent from my iWhatever ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu (mailto:Finale@shsu.edu) http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraels.com (http://www.chuckisraels.com) www.chuckisraelsjazz.com (http://www.chuckisraelsjazz.com) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu (mailto:Finale@shsu.edu) http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
For the benefit of the MM employees on this list, I have to say that I completely agree. TGTools is an absolutely essential part of my workflow, in ways large and small. Aaron. On 7/4/2012 2:35 PM, Henry Howey wrote: I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. MakeMusic MUST acquire and maintain TGTOOLS. I'm sure Garritan and MusicXML were not cheap. TGTOOLS would be much less. Henry Howey Sent from my iWhatever ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
I could not work without TGTools. And, the uncertainty that I read here about its functioning in later Finale versions is a big factor in why I have not upgraded for a while. Richard Yates -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of Aaron Sherber Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 12:43 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b For the benefit of the MM employees on this list, I have to say that I completely agree. TGTools is an absolutely essential part of my workflow, in ways large and small. Aaron. On 7/4/2012 2:35 PM, Henry Howey wrote: I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. MakeMusic MUST acquire and maintain TGTOOLS. I'm sure Garritan and MusicXML were not cheap. TGTOOLS would be much less. Henry Howey Sent from my iWhatever ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
I tossed this out a couple weeks back and only heard from Chuck. Has anyone had ANY contact at all with Tobias regarding the status of TGTools? I wholeheartedly agree with everyone here who finds them indispensable to our work flow, and I would be more than happy to pay an upgrade fee to keep them running smoothly. Or, MakeMusic, buy out Tobias and keep these developed. J D Thomas ThomaStudios On Jul 4, 2012, at 12:43 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: For the benefit of the MM employees on this list, I have to say that I completely agree. TGTools is an absolutely essential part of my workflow, in ways large and small. Aaron. On 7/4/2012 2:35 PM, Henry Howey wrote: I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. MakeMusic MUST acquire and maintain TGTOOLS. I'm sure Garritan and MusicXML were not cheap. TGTOOLS would be much less. Henry Howey Sent from my iWhatever ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
I can't help thinking that if MM ever had a handle on how we worked with Finale, they might have integrated the kinds of plug-ins and innovations we have come to depend on Tobias for. They are indispensable, indeed. I would not assume that MM could pick up where he left off or maintain TGTools as is. MM has redesigned the staff systems in each of the last 2 versions among other improvements/changes. It is no wonder that TGTools doesn't work the same in this area without an update from Tobias. It seems to me that Jari is our future and is slowly providing all of the functionality of TGTools and then some that is up-to-date. It may be more beneficial for us to support his efforts than to look to MM to fill these needs. John Blane Blane Music Preparation 1649 Huntington Ln. Highland Park, IL 60035 847 579-9900 847 579-9903 fax www.BlaneMusic.com j...@blanemusic.com On Jul 4, 2012, at 1:35 PM, Henry Howey wrote: I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. MakeMusic MUST acquire and maintain TGTOOLS. I'm sure Garritan and MusicXML were not cheap. TGTOOLS would be much less. Henry Howey Sent from my iWhatever ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
On 2012-07-04 20:35, Henry Howey wrote: I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. MakeMusic MUST acquire and maintain TGTOOLS. I'm sure Garritan and MusicXML were not cheap. TGTOOLS would be much less. Gary and Michael became a part of the MM staff as part of the merger with Garritan and Recordare. That was an investment from MM's side, and current results are the free Dolet and the partnership with Abbey Road Studios, for example. Buying TGTools and then hire programmers to bring Tobias' sources up-to-date would IMHO cost MM much more than they would gain. If a third party looses interest in its customers, I really can't see why the main company has any responsibilities. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
i COMPLETELY disagree with the idea that it could benefit the user community if MM acquired TGTools, expecting it would simply become yet another sister in the family of dis-functionality that is never quite up to par. linked parts (partly broken in 6 versions now)? score manager? dozens of other recurring bugs that have not been fixed and probably hundreds that the average user might never or rarely encounter? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
Oh, and boy hasn't that resulted in a TON of great products and updates from MakeMusic….I mean, MusicXML is taking the world by storm….. -- On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Jari Williamsson wrote: On 2012-07-04 20:35, Henry Howey wrote: I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. MakeMusic MUST acquire and maintain TGTOOLS. I'm sure Garritan and MusicXML were not cheap. TGTOOLS would be much less. Gary and Michael became a part of the MM staff as part of the merger with Garritan and Recordare. That was an investment from MM's side, and current results are the free Dolet and the partnership with Abbey Road Studios, for example. Buying TGTools and then hire programmers to bring Tobias' sources up-to-date would IMHO cost MM much more than they would gain. If a third party looses interest in its customers, I really can't see why the main company has any responsibilities. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu (mailto:Finale@shsu.edu) http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
Oh, but that was what the yearly $129 for the latest Finale 20XX was for right? For them to fix bugs and re-introduce old features as new. How many times have they done slurs now in Finale……3 times or something? Every time it's called something new and listed as a new feature. Or the one year where one of the bullet points was that you could put the copyright symbol in….. -- On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 at 2:51 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote: i COMPLETELY disagree with the idea that it could benefit the user community if MM acquired TGTools, expecting it would simply become yet another sister in the family of dis-functionality that is never quite up to par. linked parts (partly broken in 6 versions now)? score manager? dozens of other recurring bugs that have not been fixed and probably hundreds that the average user might never or rarely encounter? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu (mailto:Finale@shsu.edu) http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
henry, which ones specifically are you noticing as problematic? i would not trust (and some have described probs) with parts-related tools, the reset staff groups has caused me very much anguish and i'm no longer certain about the layout tool (although it could be part of the probs i had with resetting staff groups, never managed to find out which did what). so far for me the following work: shift accis (not 100%, but it never was); align dynamics; tremolos worked well in 2010, haven't tested yet in 2012. let us know whcih ones you had probs with!!! I'm noticing that several of the tools are now inoperable. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
man, for me the upgrade with finale water bottle was the awesomest. linked parts? meh. staff styles? meh. slurs that are note-attached instead of page-attached? mmight pay for that one. text and graphics tool improvements? meh. unicode support? double meh. i would give another 100 bucks for a sexy-ass water bottle again any day, i lost mine in a move sometime ago. Oh, but that was what the yearly $129 for the latest Finale 20XX was for right? For them to fix bugs and re-introduce old features as new. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
What about the T-Shirts -- Eric Dannewitz Musician/Polymath/Evil Genius http://www.ericdannewitz.com/ iMessage ericdannew...@me.com On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 at 3:24 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote: man, for me the upgrade with finale water bottle was the awesomest. linked parts? meh. staff styles? meh. slurs that are note-attached instead of page-attached? mmight pay for that one. text and graphics tool improvements? meh. unicode support? double meh. i would give another 100 bucks for a sexy-ass water bottle again any day, i lost mine in a move sometime ago. Oh, but that was what the yearly $129 for the latest Finale 20XX was for right? For them to fix bugs and re-introduce old features as new. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu (mailto:Finale@shsu.edu) http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
Hey, what about that super-ultra-cool cobalt-blue Pilsner glass? Now THAT was cool!! I still have mine, but only because I ordered the wife and son to keep their mitts off it. After all: considering the frustration arising FROM Finale at times, the LEAST they could do was to provide a vessel for booze to help dull the pain of dealing with program quirks. Come to think of it, they'd probably get near-universal upgrade-compliance if they came up with a Finale bong. Not that I'm suggesting or endorsing ANYTHING, mind you Les Marsden (209) 966-6988 (H) (559) 708-6027 (Emergency-only cell) 7145 Snyder Creek Road Mariposa, CA 95338-9641 Music AND Mariposa? Ahhh, Paradise! Chairman, Mariposa County Planning Commission President, Mariposa County Arts Council, Incorporated Board Director, Economic Development Corporation of Mariposa County Founding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra Mariposa Symphony Orchestra: http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html Les Marsden - Former Career (retired due to disability) page: http://tinyurl.com/ygpj7og - Original Message - From: SN jef chippewa shirl...@newmusicnotation.com To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b man, for me the upgrade with finale water bottle was the awesomest. linked parts? meh. staff styles? meh. slurs that are note-attached instead of page-attached? mmight pay for that one. text and graphics tool improvements? meh. unicode support? double meh. i would give another 100 bucks for a sexy-ass water bottle again any day, i lost mine in a move sometime ago. Oh, but that was what the yearly $129 for the latest Finale 20XX was for right? For them to fix bugs and re-introduce old features as new.Signature HEAVYscaledFIRST NAME ONLY.jpg___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
ja man, i still have my black F2004 T. keeping it safe for another 30 years when i will bring it out and much younger women will run to my side in th(r)ongs because i will be so übercööl and retro. by then, the bong PI lee spoke of will *finally* be working properly and all the years of kludging, fussing, cussing will be nothing but a meaningless blur of history... for an evening at least. What about the T-Shirts ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TGTOOLS in 2012b
Whaaa? Staff Styles are AWESOME! They seem to have fixed in 2012b the score styles not showing up properly in parts. Note-attached slurs, also awesome (though not completely problem-free, but hey, whaddya want?) Text, well, I am still waiting for partial point sizes and centre justification in expressions. Christopher On 4-Jul-12, at 4-Jul-12 6:24 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote: man, for me the upgrade with finale water bottle was the awesomest. linked parts? meh. staff styles? meh. slurs that are note-attached instead of page-attached? mmight pay for that one. text and graphics tool improvements? meh. unicode support? double meh. i would give another 100 bucks for a sexy-ass water bottle again any day, i lost mine in a move sometime ago. Oh, but that was what the yearly $129 for the latest Finale 20XX was for right? For them to fix bugs and re-introduce old features as new. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
