Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
I think the fact that this list is pretty inactive says it all. I'm freelancing at an agency right now who I make AIR apps for. I used to make a lot of them for a few years, but recently I think they are looking more and more at html5/js solutions. A few years ago I used to make Flash websites for them, but never any more; then I made AIR apps, and now that seems on the slide... it's a shame for all the reasons we already know. The only other work I get with Flash is the occasional banner ad! I'm sure there are still some niche areas for Flash, but largely it feels dead from where I sit. David David Hunter www.davidhunterdesign.com +44 (0) 7869 104 906 @DHDPIC On 10 May 2013 16:31, Kevin Newman capta...@unfocus.com wrote: That seems to be mostly about ASNext/AVMNext which has since been canned, and the developers moved not back to AS3, but to webkit and other web tech. Kevin N. On 5/10/13 7:20 AM, John McCormack wrote: Alex Harui at Adobe had these interesting things to say: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/**group/flexcoders/message/**165517http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/message/165517 John __**_ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.**com Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/**mailman/listinfo/flashcodershttp://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
This is probably a moot point, but being the platform flash is and its ability to manipulate objects and apply code to the interactions of the objects in an easy user friendly layout, it would seem that Adobe would look into enabling flash to pick if it used ActionScript or Javascript or even a jQuery port. Along with choosing a flash stage or a DOM stage. I for one would relish in the ability to use flash as a html creator, html5, DHTML or otherwise. Being able to layout HTML DOM elements the same way as a movieclip, or adding DHTML timelines inside a DIV and having flash export the files to make it work in every browser. That would be epic. Its not about the language or the file it exports, for me, Flash the application is just a superlative website creation tool. SWF or not. In the past flash came in and did what HTML could not. Ok, so you lead the pack for a while and they caught up. So now join the pack and take it to the next level. That's what Flash is/was about... t! he next level. 2¢ Best, Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com On May 14, 2013, at 4:55 AM, David Hunter wrote: I think the fact that this list is pretty inactive says it all. I'm freelancing at an agency right now who I make AIR apps for. I used to make a lot of them for a few years, but recently I think they are looking more and more at html5/js solutions. A few years ago I used to make Flash websites for them, but never any more; then I made AIR apps, and now that seems on the slide... it's a shame for all the reasons we already know. The only other work I get with Flash is the occasional banner ad! I'm sure there are still some niche areas for Flash, but largely it feels dead from where I sit. David David Hunter www.davidhunterdesign.com +44 (0) 7869 104 906 @DHDPIC On 10 May 2013 16:31, Kevin Newman capta...@unfocus.com wrote: That seems to be mostly about ASNext/AVMNext which has since been canned, and the developers moved not back to AS3, but to webkit and other web tech. Kevin N. On 5/10/13 7:20 AM, John McCormack wrote: Alex Harui at Adobe had these interesting things to say: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/**group/flexcoders/message/**165517http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/message/165517 John __**_ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.**com Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/**mailman/listinfo/flashcodershttp://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Alex Harui at Adobe had these interesting things to say: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/message/165517 John ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Gospel. Kevin N. On 5/9/13 11:18 AM, James Merrill wrote: From my perspective as a former Flash Developer at an Ad agency, I can't imagine us getting any more serious Flash work. These days we still use Flash for banner ads, but that's it. We've tried using Adobe Edge to do HTML5 banners, but it was an awful experience. I rest ALL of my blame on Adobe for both of these situations, not the underlying technologies. If you're betting on Adobe, you're going to lose. They've royally screwed up how they handled this whole Flash fiasco in the last five years. I have ZERO faith in their Edge HTML5 platform, and I suggest that you don't buy the hype. Adobe makes good designs software, and that's it. As AS3 Flash developers, we understand the complexities of RIA's much better than your average Javascript programmer. We've been doing AJAX far before it was popularized in mainstream web development. It was sendAndLoad to us in AS2. We understand animation, interactivity, and user experience much more than most. That's our strength, and it transcends Flash. A lot of you may not believe me, but it's becoming a reality that you can make Flash quality experiences in modern browsers. As for coding HTML5/CSS/JS in an opensource IDE with Greensock JS, Angular, or even Jquery, it's getting better. Javascript is not as elegant as AS3, actually it's more akin to AS2... But progress is being made with new releases of ECMAScript, and MV* frameworks like Backbone and Angular. I miss the good ole days of Flash... But times are exciting as a web developer, I've found some comfort in embracing the change. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
That seems to be mostly about ASNext/AVMNext which has since been canned, and the developers moved not back to AS3, but to webkit and other web tech. Kevin N. On 5/10/13 7:20 AM, John McCormack wrote: Alex Harui at Adobe had these interesting things to say: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/message/165517 John ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
From my perspective as a former Flash Developer at an Ad agency, I can't imagine us getting any more serious Flash work. These days we still use Flash for banner ads, but that's it. We've tried using Adobe Edge to do HTML5 banners, but it was an awful experience. I rest ALL of my blame on Adobe for both of these situations, not the underlying technologies. If you're betting on Adobe, you're going to lose. They've royally screwed up how they handled this whole Flash fiasco in the last five years. I have ZERO faith in their Edge HTML5 platform, and I suggest that you don't buy the hype. Adobe makes good designs software, and that's it. As AS3 Flash developers, we understand the complexities of RIA's much better than your average Javascript programmer. We've been doing AJAX far before it was popularized in mainstream web development. It was sendAndLoad to us in AS2. We understand animation, interactivity, and user experience much more than most. That's our strength, and it transcends Flash. A lot of you may not believe me, but it's becoming a reality that you can make Flash quality experiences in modern browsers. As for coding HTML5/CSS/JS in an opensource IDE with Greensock JS, Angular, or even Jquery, it's getting better. Javascript is not as elegant as AS3, actually it's more akin to AS2... But progress is being made with new releases of ECMAScript, and MV* frameworks like Backbone and Angular. I miss the good ole days of Flash... But times are exciting as a web developer, I've found some comfort in embracing the change. On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Kevin Newman capta...@unfocus.com wrote: On 5/8/13 2:20 PM, John R. Sweeney Jr. wrote: Please tell me another software that I can build an app that runs on PC/MAC/Linux/iPad/Android/Web (non-mobile)? NME / haXe, or with a bit of additional work, Xamarin (with the various Mono ports) - or Unity3D - based on the same tech. There are dozens of C/C++ based cross platform frameworks as well - Cocos2D, MarmaladeSDK, etc. Some scripting engines, CoronaSDK, LoomScript, etc. I still think Flash has an edge (except maybe over Xamarin), but tell that to Adobe. I wish Adobe was as enthusiastic about defending Flash as you are. That would go a long way toward convincing potential buyers, that the platform isn't going to evaporate tomorrow. As I said in another post - Flash and AIR are great tech, but Adobe's public support is nonexistent, which is sad, because it wouldn't take much. Kevin N. __**_ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.**com Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/**mailman/listinfo/flashcodershttp://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- James Merrill ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Everything James said. Also where once the Creative suite provided an entire pipeline for workflow I can honestly say we barely touch it anymore. A little FW and PS. Maybe a little Illustrator from time to time but that's it. With their new licensing model I think they're singing their own death certificate because most savvy designers know the software doesn't change much over a short enough period to warrant a monthly subscription and will find alternatives Marco Terrinoni - Director MULARAM PRODUCTIONS web design // animation // illustration uk: +44 7876 652 643 e: ma...@mularam.com w: www.mularam.com -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of James Merrill Sent: 09 May 2013 16:19 To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future From my perspective as a former Flash Developer at an Ad agency, I can't imagine us getting any more serious Flash work. These days we still use Flash for banner ads, but that's it. We've tried using Adobe Edge to do HTML5 banners, but it was an awful experience. I rest ALL of my blame on Adobe for both of these situations, not the underlying technologies. If you're betting on Adobe, you're going to lose. They've royally screwed up how they handled this whole Flash fiasco in the last five years. I have ZERO faith in their Edge HTML5 platform, and I suggest that you don't buy the hype. Adobe makes good designs software, and that's it. As AS3 Flash developers, we understand the complexities of RIA's much better than your average Javascript programmer. We've been doing AJAX far before it was popularized in mainstream web development. It was sendAndLoad to us in AS2. We understand animation, interactivity, and user experience much more than most. That's our strength, and it transcends Flash. A lot of you may not believe me, but it's becoming a reality that you can make Flash quality experiences in modern browsers. As for coding HTML5/CSS/JS in an opensource IDE with Greensock JS, Angular, or even Jquery, it's getting better. Javascript is not as elegant as AS3, actually it's more akin to AS2... But progress is being made with new releases of ECMAScript, and MV* frameworks like Backbone and Angular. I miss the good ole days of Flash... But times are exciting as a web developer, I've found some comfort in embracing the change. On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Kevin Newman capta...@unfocus.com wrote: On 5/8/13 2:20 PM, John R. Sweeney Jr. wrote: Please tell me another software that I can build an app that runs on PC/MAC/Linux/iPad/Android/Web (non-mobile)? NME / haXe, or with a bit of additional work, Xamarin (with the various Mono ports) - or Unity3D - based on the same tech. There are dozens of C/C++ based cross platform frameworks as well - Cocos2D, MarmaladeSDK, etc. Some scripting engines, CoronaSDK, LoomScript, etc. I still think Flash has an edge (except maybe over Xamarin), but tell that to Adobe. I wish Adobe was as enthusiastic about defending Flash as you are. That would go a long way toward convincing potential buyers, that the platform isn't going to evaporate tomorrow. As I said in another post - Flash and AIR are great tech, but Adobe's public support is nonexistent, which is sad, because it wouldn't take much. Kevin N. __**_ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.**com Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/**mailman/listinfo/flashcodershttp://cha ttyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- James Merrill ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6308 - Release Date: 05/08/13 ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Check out CreateJS: http://www.createjs.com/ Includes the ability to export from Flash Pro. mike chambers m...@adobe.com On May 8, 2013, at 8:30 AM, Liu, Peter p...@geico.com wrote: Why can't Adobe make HTML5 as one of the publishing options, then we can continue to use Flash without the need to learn another program? ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Nice to see you're still lurking, mesh :) CreateJS looks interesting and I've toyed with it a bit. Some of the new integration opportunities with Flash CC will be interesting to check out. However, it'll be primarily a toy and best for demo work until (and if) Adobe can create a clear professional solution for the development of creative application apps in HTML. Edge tooling doesn't cut it for robust, performant and maintainable code – at least not even close to the same ballpark as those in the space had with Flex/Flash. There's some interesting things going on there though. -j On May 9, 2013, at 12:18 PM, Mike Chambers wrote: Check out CreateJS: http://www.createjs.com/ Includes the ability to export from Flash Pro. mike chambers m...@adobe.com On May 8, 2013, at 8:30 AM, Liu, Peter p...@geico.com wrote: Why can't Adobe make HTML5 as one of the publishing options, then we can continue to use Flash without the need to learn another program? ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Thanks for the link Mike, it seems that CreateJS is definitely a step in the right direction. I'm still not sold on Adobe's EDGE suite though... I am afraid that I'll always be skeptical of generated HTML after seeing Dreamweaver's design view. I also know from experience that including Adobe Edge's javascript libraries in filesize sensitive contexts will really limit your options. These things make me worried that there may never be a competent, visual-based IDE for HTML... which would be a major step backwards from the glory days of Flash. On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Jon Bradley shiftedpix...@gmail.comwrote: Nice to see you're still lurking, mesh :) CreateJS looks interesting and I've toyed with it a bit. Some of the new integration opportunities with Flash CC will be interesting to check out. However, it'll be primarily a toy and best for demo work until (and if) Adobe can create a clear professional solution for the development of creative application apps in HTML. Edge tooling doesn't cut it for robust, performant and maintainable code – at least not even close to the same ballpark as those in the space had with Flex/Flash. There's some interesting things going on there though. -j On May 9, 2013, at 12:18 PM, Mike Chambers wrote: Check out CreateJS: http://www.createjs.com/ Includes the ability to export from Flash Pro. mike chambers m...@adobe.com On May 8, 2013, at 8:30 AM, Liu, Peter p...@geico.com wrote: Why can't Adobe make HTML5 as one of the publishing options, then we can continue to use Flash without the need to learn another program? ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- James Merrill ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
I think the main issue with EDGE is that it generates such big files. I haven't been able to create a useful banner animation with it. Well, one that meets the maximum file size for a HTML5 banner. Only the Edge script is already bigger ;) Yes, I have to admit CreateJS looks promising. Thanks for the link Mike, it seems that CreateJS is definitely a step in the right direction. I'm still not sold on Adobe's EDGE suite though... I am afraid that I'll always be skeptical of generated HTML after seeing Dreamweaver's design view. I also know from experience that including Adobe Edge's javascript libraries in filesize sensitive contexts will really limit your options. These things make me worried that there may never be a competent, visual-based IDE for HTML... which would be a major step backwards from the glory days of Flash. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Yea, that's why it's excellent for demoware. The suite clearly allows creatives to demonstrate work and it adds a fair amount of value to prototyping/demo work. In the keynote, we saw Photoshop to Edge Reflow export – a very useful step to PS CC to export graphics quickly and have them in-place to being conceptual demo work. Not a single bit of that is production-worthy though – at least not the type of production work the company I work for does. Of course, once you go to Edge Reflow, there's nothing about the code it uses and methodology that's implemented that's something I'd ever put in to production. That said, these are all very new tools with a very high potential associated with them. I have my fingers crossed that Adobe will do their best for the web (HTML/CSS3/Shaders, etc.) that they did by advancing the state-of-the-art with Flash. These are exciting times. Adobe needs to integrate Adobe Ideas into their CC products so that they, and ourselves, can see and feedback within the product where we, as users, see the value and opportunity. -j On May 9, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Weyert de Boer wrote: I think the main issue with EDGE is that it generates such big files. I haven't been able to create a useful banner animation with it. Well, one that meets the maximum file size for a HTML5 banner. Only the Edge script is already bigger ;) Yes, I have to admit CreateJS looks promising. Thanks for the link Mike, it seems that CreateJS is definitely a step in the right direction. I'm still not sold on Adobe's EDGE suite though... I am afraid that I'll always be skeptical of generated HTML after seeing Dreamweaver's design view. I also know from experience that including Adobe Edge's javascript libraries in filesize sensitive contexts will really limit your options. These things make me worried that there may never be a competent, visual-based IDE for HTML... which would be a major step backwards from the glory days of Flash. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Did adobe really advance the state of the art with flash though? they did stuff that the community was screaming for and had been for a long time. It was often buggy too. CreteJS is very nice, and it's only just started so I expect it to get better. For the web I've already done a couple of things with Haxe using the externs for CreateJS that compile to flash and canvas using exensively the same code. Just have a class to manage the creation of assets which has the different code required for Containers/Sprites and the differences in handling text. Then your logic stays the same for both targets, you can even use TimelineMax seamlessly on those assets. It's a very nice way to work and you get to cover IE6/7 etc. with flash and the iOS/android/devices with canvas. Anyway Adobe have killed flash if flash is dead. They hndled the conflict with Apple in the worst way possible and the negative publicity created just snowballed to the point where the lesser technology won out. That's a shit state of affairs in anyone's books. I echo though the transferable skills from AS3. I started ages ago getting in to Haxe and that experience is now opening doors for me to start messing with other languages too. On 9 May 2013 18:54, Jon Bradley shiftedpix...@gmail.com wrote: Yea, that's why it's excellent for demoware. The suite clearly allows creatives to demonstrate work and it adds a fair amount of value to prototyping/demo work. In the keynote, we saw Photoshop to Edge Reflow export – a very useful step to PS CC to export graphics quickly and have them in-place to being conceptual demo work. Not a single bit of that is production-worthy though – at least not the type of production work the company I work for does. Of course, once you go to Edge Reflow, there's nothing about the code it uses and methodology that's implemented that's something I'd ever put in to production. That said, these are all very new tools with a very high potential associated with them. I have my fingers crossed that Adobe will do their best for the web (HTML/CSS3/Shaders, etc.) that they did by advancing the state-of-the-art with Flash. These are exciting times. Adobe needs to integrate Adobe Ideas into their CC products so that they, and ourselves, can see and feedback within the product where we, as users, see the value and opportunity. -j On May 9, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Weyert de Boer wrote: I think the main issue with EDGE is that it generates such big files. I haven't been able to create a useful banner animation with it. Well, one that meets the maximum file size for a HTML5 banner. Only the Edge script is already bigger ;) Yes, I have to admit CreateJS looks promising. Thanks for the link Mike, it seems that CreateJS is definitely a step in the right direction. I'm still not sold on Adobe's EDGE suite though... I am afraid that I'll always be skeptical of generated HTML after seeing Dreamweaver's design view. I also know from experience that including Adobe Edge's javascript libraries in filesize sensitive contexts will really limit your options. These things make me worried that there may never be a competent, visual-based IDE for HTML... which would be a major step backwards from the glory days of Flash. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Just an fyi, but this is something that we are working on addressing. mike chambers m...@adobe.com On May 9, 2013, at 9:42 AM, Weyert de Boer w...@innerfuse.biz wrote: I think the main issue with EDGE is that it generates such big files. I haven't been able to create a useful banner animation with it. Well, one that meets the maximum file size for a HTML5 banner. Only the Edge script is already bigger ;) Yes, I have to admit CreateJS looks promising. Thanks for the link Mike, it seems that CreateJS is definitely a step in the right direction. I'm still not sold on Adobe's EDGE suite though... I am afraid that I'll always be skeptical of generated HTML after seeing Dreamweaver's design view. I also know from experience that including Adobe Edge's javascript libraries in filesize sensitive contexts will really limit your options. These things make me worried that there may never be a competent, visual-based IDE for HTML... which would be a major step backwards from the glory days of Flash. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
the differences in the flash and createJS apis? or the state of affairs? ;) no offence meant Mike, just the way it has played out has left a bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouths I'd reckon. I've personally lost income through it for sure as I now have to convince people that my skills are transferable to other technologies, once that gets demonstrated though there's still the problem of why hire the flash guy when they already had their html/js/iOS/android/C/java man which they've been using for years :) if I were in adobe's shoes i'd take a long hard look at Haxe and NME, not only for targetting multiple platforms with one language but also using that very same language on the server, the client and obviously that means the serialized data that passes in between them. I'd also lean towards opening up the platform instead of trying to monetize it too hard. the stuff with the memory api plus stage3d meaning you have to pay for the premium features was just ridiculous timing seeing as it meant the very features which kept ithe platform head and shoulders above anything else had a special tax applied. anyway good luck with it, flash was a great , inventive community around a really fantastic platform. somehow that all got lost, it would be great to think it's not irreversible. On 9 May 2013 20:15, Mike Chambers mcham...@adobe.com wrote: Just an fyi, but this is something that we are working on addressing. mike chambers m...@adobe.com On May 9, 2013, at 9:42 AM, Weyert de Boer w...@innerfuse.biz wrote: I think the main issue with EDGE is that it generates such big files. I haven't been able to create a useful banner animation with it. Well, one that meets the maximum file size for a HTML5 banner. Only the Edge script is already bigger ;) Yes, I have to admit CreateJS looks promising. Thanks for the link Mike, it seems that CreateJS is definitely a step in the right direction. I'm still not sold on Adobe's EDGE suite though... I am afraid that I'll always be skeptical of generated HTML after seeing Dreamweaver's design view. I also know from experience that including Adobe Edge's javascript libraries in filesize sensitive contexts will really limit your options. These things make me worried that there may never be a competent, visual-based IDE for HTML... which would be a major step backwards from the glory days of Flash. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
[Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Hi What do you think about Flash technology in the near future? It is a pity but it seems that almost all clients have no interest in Flash projects. Do you think Adobe Flash has no future? Where to move from Flash? Thanks ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Flash will be here for the years to come. Gladly, it isn't the sexy thing where trendy buzzers are. So, there are less projects, but projects are still flowing here, at least on the top high client part. I have no future, but Flash has one. Just look at all those HTML5 bad designs ;) Le 8 mai 2013 à 16:40, natalia Vikhtinskaya a écrit : Hi What do you think about Flash technology in the near future? It is a pity but it seems that almost all clients have no interest in Flash projects. Do you think Adobe Flash has no future? Where to move from Flash? Thanks ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
I think of Flash the way I think of Shockwave. There is still work out there, but not much, and less every minute. Kevin N. On 5/8/13 10:40 AM, natalia Vikhtinskaya wrote: Hi What do you think about Flash technology in the near future? It is a pity but it seems that almost all clients have no interest in Flash projects. Do you think Adobe Flash has no future? Where to move from Flash? Thanks ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Why can't Adobe make HTML5 as one of the publishing options, then we can continue to use Flash without the need to learn another program? -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Newman Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 11:24 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future I think of Flash the way I think of Shockwave. There is still work out there, but not much, and less every minute. Kevin N. On 5/8/13 10:40 AM, natalia Vikhtinskaya wrote: Hi What do you think about Flash technology in the near future? It is a pity but it seems that almost all clients have no interest in Flash projects. Do you think Adobe Flash has no future? Where to move from Flash? Thanks ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders This email/fax message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this email/fax is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all paper and electronic copies of the original message. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
It's effectively dead in the browser, except for some niche markets (game dev, children's content, educational), but it will survive for a long time, and has some potential in App and Game development across platforms. The real problem is that in the tech world, being perceived as last-years technology — the stuff the Olds are using — is the kiss of death, even if the technology itself still has a lot of potential. Even if you *can* do something with Flash, many developers, especially younger ones, would sooner cut their swiping finger off than consider using it or admit to having used it if they did. I can't count the number of times I've heard people apologize when presenting something that was built in Flash, as though it were shameful or unprofessional. That kind of stigma is tough for any technology to overcome. .m On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:40 AM, natalia Vikhtinskaya natavi.m...@gmail.com wrote: Hi What do you think about Flash technology in the near future? It is a pity but it seems that almost all clients have no interest in Flash projects. Do you think Adobe Flash has no future? Where to move from Flash? Thanks ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Liu, Peter skriver: Why can't Adobe make HTML5 as one of the publishing options, then we can continue to use Flash without the need to learn another program? Because HTML5 doesn't do a good job at vector animation. The Flash runtime is quite powerful. And it is difficult to replicate so much work, even if you aren't aiming for content compatibility. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
It's dead on the MOBILE browser. There are tons of sites still using the power of Flash. http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/best-flash-sites John R. Sweeney Jr. Senior Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 On May 8, 2013, at 10:31 AM, Matt S. wrote: It's effectively dead in the browser, ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Matt, If we need to have animation/cartoon or games on iPad and Android what is the programme for both platform? Do you mean that Flash can be used for both and that is why it has potential? What the tech word can offer in this situation? 2013/5/8 Matt S. mattsp...@gmail.com: It's effectively dead in the browser, except for some niche markets (game dev, children's content, educational), but it will survive for a long time, and has some potential in App and Game development across platforms. The real problem is that in the tech world, being perceived as last-years technology — the stuff the Olds are using — is the kiss of death, even if the technology itself still has a lot of potential. Even if you *can* do something with Flash, many developers, especially younger ones, would sooner cut their swiping finger off than consider using it or admit to having used it if they did. I can't count the number of times I've heard people apologize when presenting something that was built in Flash, as though it were shameful or unprofessional. That kind of stigma is tough for any technology to overcome. .m On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:40 AM, natalia Vikhtinskaya natavi.m...@gmail.com wrote: Hi What do you think about Flash technology in the near future? It is a pity but it seems that almost all clients have no interest in Flash projects. Do you think Adobe Flash has no future? Where to move from Flash? Thanks ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Personally, I still love Flash. I miss that I don't use it as often these days. A few thoughts: 1. Correct me if I'm wrong, as it's not my industry, but isn't Flash still one of the popular tools to use for video animation? 2. I love AS3! I'd take AS3 and the Flash GUI over HTML5 any day. 3. We do a lot of ad work at my company ... HTML5 animation is a LONG way off. Even if we did do HTML5 anims, then the ad serving software and ad networks would have to be on board too; I'm not holding my breath on this one (have you seen the JS these people use? Hell, they can't even get away from using multi-nested document.writes which kills it if you're trying to do responsive loading of ads). 4. This is maybe tangentially related, but several months ago, Facebook decided to go native app vs. using CSS3/HTML5 technology (as an example of HTML5 getting mud in its eye). Don't get me wrong, I think HTML5 is pretty cool stuff (compared to its predecessor) but I think there's room to grow for both technologies. Then again, I'd hate to see Flash go the way of Director. Man, it's been years since I last coded in Lingo script! :D ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
And Director 12 came out a little while ago and compiles out to iPad. :) John R. Sweeney Jr. Senior Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 On May 8, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Micky Hulse wrote: Then again, I'd hate to see Flash go the way of Director. Man, it's been years since I last coded in Lingo script! :D ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:31 AM, John R. Sweeney Jr. jr.swee...@comcast.net wrote: And Director 12 came out a little while ago and compiles out to iPad. :) Wha??? That blows my mind. I thought Director was dead. Shows what I know! :D So, is it any good these days? Director was a fun animation tool back when I used it. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Adobe didn't even make any kind of an announcement or anything. I'm a AUG manager and didn't hear about it there, but on LinkedIn when someone posted their 3D game, created in a pre-release version of D12 and running on a iPad. And running QUITE well I might add. :) John R. Sweeney Jr. Senior Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 On May 8, 2013, at 12:39 PM, Micky Hulse wrote: On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:31 AM, John R. Sweeney Jr. jr.swee...@comcast.net wrote: And Director 12 came out a little while ago and compiles out to iPad. :) Wha??? That blows my mind. I thought Director was dead. Shows what I know! :D So, is it any good these days? Director was a fun animation tool back when I used it. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
On 5/8/13 1:16 PM, Micky Hulse wrote: Personally, I still love Flash. I miss that I don't use it as often these days. A few thoughts: 1. Correct me if I'm wrong, as it's not my industry, but isn't Flash still one of the popular tools to use for video animation? It was popular for certain types of cartoon animation and motion graphics. But these days there are a lot of alternatives, especially After Affects, but also toon boom, etc. 2. I love AS3! I'd take AS3 and the Flash GUI over HTML5 any day. AS3 is great. But we have alternatives. For apps, I've been looking at Xamarin which is mostly through C#. If you like AS3, you'll love C#. You can also use PlayScript or AS3 (and even Stage3D) on top of Xamarin if you like. I've been playing with it for a couple of weeks, and I have to say, it feels like going home again. I don't miss mobile AIR - Xamarin is what Adobe should have done for Flash/AIR devs years ago. HTML5 has a place in apps, but it's place is not to BE the app. 3. We do a lot of ad work at my company ... HTML5 animation is a LONG way off. Even if we did do HTML5 anims, then the ad serving software and ad networks would have to be on board too; I'm not holding my breath on this one (have you seen the JS these people use? Hell, they can't even get away from using multi-nested document.writes which kills it if you're trying to do responsive loading of ads). You could always use the various SWF - HTML5 converters, including Google's Swiffy, which is just fantastic (again, Adobe could have done that, but they farmed out CreateJS - wtf). https://www.google.com/doubleclick/studio/swiffy/ 4. This is maybe tangentially related, but several months ago, Facebook decided to go native app vs. using CSS3/HTML5 technology (as an example of HTML5 getting mud in its eye). Don't get me wrong, I think HTML5 is pretty cool stuff (compared to its predecessor) but I think there's room to grow for both technologies. Then again, I'd hate to see Flash go the way of Director. Man, it's been years since I last coded in Lingo script! :D It's too late - Adobe has already pulled a large portion of their developers off of both Flash Pro and the Flash runtime, and cancelled FlashNext/AVMNext. It's over. Time to move on. I like Xamarin so far. It's cross platform, and provides access to native GUI toolkits, which is all most people need when they say they want a native app. The AS3/PlayScript front end that Zynga's employees threw together is icing on the cake. I hope this one gains some traction, cause it's pretty slick. I'm a little surprised more Flash/AS3 developers haven't picked up on it yet, because I think it's a natural fit. Maybe PlayScript will prompt more of us to take another look at the technology. In the web world, there's some great stuff happening, from AngularJS, Backbone.js, Node.js, jQuery, and the transpilers - TypeScript (very AS2 like, only better) and CoffeeScript. Even Apache Flex is working rapidly on an HTML5 compile target and set of components. These are increasingly two different worlds - two worlds Flash could have bridged, but Adobe didn't chose to move in that direction. But that's ok, cause these two worlds are pretty fun if you embrace them (or just one or the other). Kevin N. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
That's what I mean by I think of Flash as Directory/Shockwave. It's not dead, it's just not the job engine it was for a while. It's a much harder sell - but it's still possible, and still has its niches. I still think Adobe could do some things to make it easier, even if they don't actively promote and as vigorously develop Flash. They could send a big signal that Flash is still alive, if they just mention is more, or rebrand AIR as Flash Apps (cause no one know what the heck AIR is - in fact, many still operate under the Flash is banned from the app store narrative that Adobe never quite countered). That'd go a long way to providing the necessary confidence that they are indeed maintaining it and standing behind at least what's already there, and that they aren't going to just pull the plug, which is the sense I think they've sent out into the market. It's truly next to impossible to sell AIR apps right now. I've moved on anyway, and I suspect a lot of developers have done the same. I love Flash, and I think it's great tech. Adobe not so much. Kevin N. On 5/8/13 1:39 PM, Micky Hulse wrote: On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:31 AM, John R. Sweeney Jr. jr.swee...@comcast.net wrote: And Director 12 came out a little while ago and compiles out to iPad. :) Wha??? That blows my mind. I thought Director was dead. Shows what I know! :D So, is it any good these days? Director was a fun animation tool back when I used it. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
That seems to be Adobe's general problem. They are very reactive, like used car salesmen. You want HTML5? Boy have we got HTML5! Clouds? We got clouds - on sale this week only! Technology companies can't succeed that way. Kevin N. On 5/8/13 1:58 PM, John R. Sweeney Jr. wrote: Adobe didn't even make any kind of an announcement or anything. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
I don't think its a niche… Please tell me another software that I can build an app that runs on PC/MAC/Linux/iPad/Android/Web (non-mobile)? Till they have one, I can support all the platforms my clients want right now. John R. Sweeney Jr. Senior Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 On May 8, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Kevin Newman wrote: That's what I mean by I think of Flash as Directory/Shockwave. It's not dead, it's just not the job engine it was for a while. It's a much harder sell - but it's still possible, and still has its niches. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Right now there are over 25,000+ apps in the App store and/or iTunes. John R. Sweeney Jr. Senior Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 On May 8, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Kevin Newman wrote: heck AIR is - in fact, many still operate under the Flash is banned from the app store narrative that Adobe never quite countered). ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
I know many Flash developers that moved over to xCode or Java/Javascript. John R. Sweeney Jr. Senior Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 On May 8, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Kevin Newman wrote: Adobe not so much. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Right now there are over 25,000+ apps in the App store and/or iTunes. But they did not create in Flash I think. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Dead might have been too strong, admittedly. But it's a hard sell. Partly because every client has an iPad these days, and if their content doesn't work on their iPad, all hell breaks loose, so its easier to dumb it down to work with JS/CSS-based solutions. And yes, there are amazing Flash sites, still. I love Flash, think AS3 is a killer language and Flash a delight to work in. Its just increasingly difficult to find Flash work, other than banner ads and video players at one end, or the occasional amazing full-featured flash site at the high end. The middle has dropped out. That's just my 2¢ though... .m On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 11:52 AM, John R. Sweeney Jr. jr.swee...@comcast.net wrote: It's dead on the MOBILE browser. There are tons of sites still using the power of Flash. http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/best-flash-sites John R. Sweeney Jr. Senior Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 On May 8, 2013, at 10:31 AM, Matt S. wrote: It's effectively dead in the browser, ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Of course the did!!! There are over 500,000 apps up in the store. The 25k+ are native Flash builds. John R. Sweeney Jr. Senior Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 On May 8, 2013, at 1:28 PM, natalia Vikhtinskaya wrote: But they did not create in Flash I think. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
I've just brought 4 educational games (originally built) for the desktop, 2 where projectors apps and two where AIR. All four are up in the iTunes store for sale on iPads. I'm doing 6 more and then building one from scratch specifically for the iPad in Flash. Haven't done a website in three years. I build apps for touchscreens, kiosks, desktop, IOS and Android. John R. Sweeney Jr. Senior Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 On May 8, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Matt S. wrote: Its just increasingly difficult to find Flash work, other than banner ads and video players at one end, ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Have a look at what this guy has to say on the topic, it's worth a read: (was posted Apr 26, 2013) http://duboiseric.wordpress.com/category/is-flash-dead/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
And it will only get better with Flash Professional CC. :) http://www.adobe.com/products/flash.html John R. Sweeney Jr. Senior Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 On May 8, 2013, at 1:28 PM, natalia Vikhtinskaya wrote: But they did not create in Flash I think. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
Sorry, but when someone says that HTML5 is replacing what can be done in Flash, I can't take them seriously. Flash made what you built look and act the same in all browsers. HTML5 is going the same path as every previous version. Features working some the same, some differently, some not at all from browser to browser. Apple is dragging its feet on supporting HTML5 standards, so people keep buying apps through their stores. That's why they didn't want Flash around. You could get tons for free, cool stuff on the INTERNET. Google has pulled away from webkit in support of their render engine Blink, because they are fed up with Apple. This is only going to divide our playback world even more. So much for standardization. HTML5 is more of a problem than a solution. But again, since I don't develop for the web much, I'll just keep giving my clients what they want now and wait to see what shakes out. :) John R. Sweeney Jr. Senior Interactive Multimedia Developer OnDemand Interactive Inc Hoffman Estates, IL 60169 On May 8, 2013, at 1:58 PM, mike g wrote: Have a look at what this guy has to say on the topic, it's worth a read: ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Flash future
On 5/8/13 2:20 PM, John R. Sweeney Jr. wrote: Please tell me another software that I can build an app that runs on PC/MAC/Linux/iPad/Android/Web (non-mobile)? NME / haXe, or with a bit of additional work, Xamarin (with the various Mono ports) - or Unity3D - based on the same tech. There are dozens of C/C++ based cross platform frameworks as well - Cocos2D, MarmaladeSDK, etc. Some scripting engines, CoronaSDK, LoomScript, etc. I still think Flash has an edge (except maybe over Xamarin), but tell that to Adobe. I wish Adobe was as enthusiastic about defending Flash as you are. That would go a long way toward convincing potential buyers, that the platform isn't going to evaporate tomorrow. As I said in another post - Flash and AIR are great tech, but Adobe's public support is nonexistent, which is sad, because it wouldn't take much. Kevin N. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
