Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
You can also get Flex 3 for free if you are a student or unemployed: https://freeriatools.adobe.com/ Leandro Ferreira Sent from Brasília, Brazilian Federal District, Brazil On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 16:32, kinda...@gmail.com kinda...@gmail.comwrote: And if you buy it in europe, it costs aproximatly 799 € + VAT... or 799 £ + VAT... Last time i checked Adobe prices, it was cheaper to get a round-trip plane to NY, spend there the weekend, with hotel and all... but the retail package, and back... And you would even get it cheaper! [it was a master collection CS3 at the time] ;) On 19-11-2009 12:51, Henrik Andersson wrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: And Adobe Flash? 799 USD for one standalone normal license. 299 USD for the upgrade deal. There are packages and student discounts available. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
And if you buy it in europe, it costs aproximatly 799 € + VAT... or 799 £ + VAT... Last time i checked Adobe prices, it was cheaper to get a round-trip plane to NY, spend there the weekend, with hotel and all... but the retail package, and back... And you would even get it cheaper! [it was a master collection CS3 at the time] ;) On 19-11-2009 12:51, Henrik Andersson wrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: And Adobe Flash? 799 USD for one standalone normal license. 299 USD for the upgrade deal. There are packages and student discounts available. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Does Flex costs all that? I think flash/flex is no option :s It's too expensive to brazillian market :p On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 23:09, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: How many time Flex/Flash took to pay it self? I think a lot of people on the flash lists don't realise how much money some corporates invest in software development. $15K would be a fraction of the development costs in some projects. It's a completely different situation to freelancers that are working with their own development tools. Corporates are rationalising development costs across many customers while often freelancers/small companies are rationalising their costs from one or very few customers. Paul On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 22:29, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote: I am still quite amazed that Macromedia ever developed Flex. I suspect that a few people on the list might not know that originally it would cost something like $6,000 for a Flex licence and some serious server power was also required. More than that - Flex 1.x was around $15k USD according to our pricelist. And, frankly, it kind of sucked. But Flex 2 changed all that! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
The Flex SDK is free, Flex Builder 3 (the current version) is $249 Ian On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Sid Ferreira sid@gmail.com wrote: Does Flex costs all that? I think flash/flex is no option :s It's too expensive to brazillian market :p On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 23:09, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: How many time Flex/Flash took to pay it self? I think a lot of people on the flash lists don't realise how much money some corporates invest in software development. $15K would be a fraction of the development costs in some projects. It's a completely different situation to freelancers that are working with their own development tools. Corporates are rationalising development costs across many customers while often freelancers/small companies are rationalising their costs from one or very few customers. Paul On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 22:29, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote: I am still quite amazed that Macromedia ever developed Flex. I suspect that a few people on the list might not know that originally it would cost something like $6,000 for a Flex licence and some serious server power was also required. More than that - Flex 1.x was around $15k USD according to our pricelist. And, frankly, it kind of sucked. But Flex 2 changed all that! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
And Adobe Flash? On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 06:47, Ian Thomas i...@eirias.net wrote: The Flex SDK is free, Flex Builder 3 (the current version) is $249 Ian On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Sid Ferreira sid@gmail.com wrote: Does Flex costs all that? I think flash/flex is no option :s It's too expensive to brazillian market :p On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 23:09, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: How many time Flex/Flash took to pay it self? I think a lot of people on the flash lists don't realise how much money some corporates invest in software development. $15K would be a fraction of the development costs in some projects. It's a completely different situation to freelancers that are working with their own development tools. Corporates are rationalising development costs across many customers while often freelancers/small companies are rationalising their costs from one or very few customers. Paul On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 22:29, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote: I am still quite amazed that Macromedia ever developed Flex. I suspect that a few people on the list might not know that originally it would cost something like $6,000 for a Flex licence and some serious server power was also required. More than that - Flex 1.x was around $15k USD according to our pricelist. And, frankly, it kind of sucked. But Flex 2 changed all that! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Sid Ferreira wrote: Does Flex costs all that? The $15K was Flex 1.0 - years ago. I think flash/flex is no option :s It's too expensive to brazillian market :p On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 23:09, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: How many time Flex/Flash took to pay it self? I think a lot of people on the flash lists don't realise how much money some corporates invest in software development. $15K would be a fraction of the development costs in some projects. It's a completely different situation to freelancers that are working with their own development tools. Corporates are rationalising development costs across many customers while often freelancers/small companies are rationalising their costs from one or very few customers. Paul On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 22:29, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote: I am still quite amazed that Macromedia ever developed Flex. I suspect that a few people on the list might not know that originally it would cost something like $6,000 for a Flex licence and some serious server power was also required. More than that - Flex 1.x was around $15k USD according to our pricelist. And, frankly, it kind of sucked. But Flex 2 changed all that! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
I suggest you look at the website: http://www.adobe.com/products/flash/ On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Sid Ferreira sid@gmail.com wrote: And Adobe Flash? On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 06:47, Ian Thomas i...@eirias.net wrote: The Flex SDK is free, Flex Builder 3 (the current version) is $249 Ian ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Sid Ferreira wrote: And Adobe Flash? 799 USD for one standalone normal license. 299 USD for the upgrade deal. There are packages and student discounts available. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Damn... 1k USD... and there are all the taxes... more than I get in 1 month (yeah, Brazil pays too low) On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:51, Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.netwrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: And Adobe Flash? 799 USD for one standalone normal license. 299 USD for the upgrade deal. There are packages and student discounts available. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Hello Sid, Damn... 1k USD... and there are all the taxes... more than I get in 1 month (yeah, Brazil pays too low) http://www.cleoag.ru/2009/11/12/langenfew-secret-videos-langenlangru-langru/ 50 EU -- iv http://www.bezier.ru http://bezier.googlecode.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
didn't got it On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:12, Ivan Dembicki ivan.dembi...@gmail.comwrote: Hello Sid, Damn... 1k USD... and there are all the taxes... more than I get in 1 month (yeah, Brazil pays too low) http://www.cleoag.ru/2009/11/12/langenfew-secret-videos-langenlangru-langru/ 50 EU -- iv http://www.bezier.ru http://bezier.googlecode.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Sid Ferreira wrote: didn't got it It was probably intended for the new thread, not this one. Where do you get $1,000 from? How do you code flash now? Paul On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:12, Ivan Dembicki ivan.dembi...@gmail.comwrote: Hello Sid, Damn... 1k USD... and there are all the taxes... more than I get in 1 month (yeah, Brazil pays too low) http://www.cleoag.ru/2009/11/12/langenfew-secret-videos-langenlangru-langru/ 50 EU -- iv http://www.bezier.ru http://bezier.googlecode.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Here in Brazil a very good and talented developer can hit $1,200 (my case) each month. Used to run pirate software, but I want to get 100% legal.. It is correct, it is fair... and in the today world is even cool ;-) On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:44, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: didn't got it It was probably intended for the new thread, not this one. Where do you get $1,000 from? How do you code flash now? Paul On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:12, Ivan Dembicki ivan.dembi...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Sid, Damn... 1k USD... and there are all the taxes... more than I get in 1 month (yeah, Brazil pays too low) http://www.cleoag.ru/2009/11/12/langenfew-secret-videos-langenlangru-langru/ 50 EU -- iv http://www.bezier.ru http://bezier.googlecode.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Sid Ferreira wrote: Used to run pirate software, but I want to get 100% legal.. It is correct, it is fair... and in the today world is even cool ;-) Good for you! I know software is expensive relative to wages in Brazil, and a lot of other countries. To make it worse, a lot of Adobe's products are cheaper in the U.S. than other countries. Still, it's the tool you use to make your living. A carpenter wouldn't steal a hammer, and we shouldn't steal our tools. You're on the right track. There is a completely free and legal solution. You can download the Flex IDE for free: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=flex3sdk. Then all you need is an editor, and FlashDevelop is free: http://www.flashdevelop.org/. That doesn't get you Flash, of course, and I consider Flash an essential complement to Flex. It does mitigate the cost quite a bit, though. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Flex SDK + FlashDevelop = free development on par in many ways with Flexbuilder - only thing I really miss in the SDK is the Charting components. I have both Flexbuilder 3 and FlashDevelop and use both of them for different things. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Soluions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Sid Ferreira Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:55 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex? Mmm... now I got a question: How to create an AS3 animated button without using flash... I mean, images, behaviours, etc... Any tutorial in mind? On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 13:30, al...@cyberiantiger.biz wrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: Used to run pirate software, but I want to get 100% legal.. It is correct, it is fair... and in the today world is even cool ;-) Good for you! I know software is expensive relative to wages in Brazil, and a lot of other countries. To make it worse, a lot of Adobe's products are cheaper in the U.S. than other countries. Still, it's the tool you use to make your living. A carpenter wouldn't steal a hammer, and we shouldn't steal our tools. You're on the right track. There is a completely free and legal solution. You can download the Flex IDE for free: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=flex3sdk. Then all you need is an editor, and FlashDevelop is free: http://www.flashdevelop.org/. That doesn't get you Flash, of course, and I consider Flash an essential complement to Flex. It does mitigate the cost quite a bit, though. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Mmm... now I got a question: How to create an AS3 animated button without using flash... I mean, images, behaviours, etc... Any tutorial in mind? On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 13:30, al...@cyberiantiger.biz wrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: Used to run pirate software, but I want to get 100% legal.. It is correct, it is fair... and in the today world is even cool ;-) Good for you! I know software is expensive relative to wages in Brazil, and a lot of other countries. To make it worse, a lot of Adobe's products are cheaper in the U.S. than other countries. Still, it's the tool you use to make your living. A carpenter wouldn't steal a hammer, and we shouldn't steal our tools. You're on the right track. There is a completely free and legal solution. You can download the Flex IDE for free: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=flex3sdk. Then all you need is an editor, and FlashDevelop is free: http://www.flashdevelop.org/. That doesn't get you Flash, of course, and I consider Flash an essential complement to Flex. It does mitigate the cost quite a bit, though. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Sid Ferreira wrote: Mmm... now I got a question: How to create an AS3 animated button without using flash... I mean, images, behaviours, etc... Any tutorial in mind? Well, here's one tutorial http://forums.greensock.com/viewtopic.php?f=1t=17. I haven't tried it, but you can find other tutorials with Google. It can be done entirely in code, assuming you have the images. In fact, it would make a nice class--probably 20-30 lines of code. It's a good question. If I get the time today, I'll write an animated button class in AS3. I don't have Flex installed on this computer, so I'll have to do it in Flash, but it will all be just AS3 code you could compile and run with Flex. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
it uses a FLA :-/ On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 14:18, al...@cyberiantiger.biz wrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: Mmm... now I got a question: How to create an AS3 animated button without using flash... I mean, images, behaviours, etc... Any tutorial in mind? Well, here's one tutorial http://forums.greensock.com/viewtopic.php?f=1t=17. I haven't tried it, but you can find other tutorials with Google. It can be done entirely in code, assuming you have the images. In fact, it would make a nice class--probably 20-30 lines of code. It's a good question. If I get the time today, I'll write an animated button class in AS3. I don't have Flex installed on this computer, so I'll have to do it in Flash, but it will all be just AS3 code you could compile and run with Flex. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Sid Ferreira wrote: it uses a FLA :-/ Ok, I'll take some time to write an animated button class. It's something we can use here, too. I'll post it after lunch (it's 11:30 a.m. here). Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Sid Ferreira schrieb: Does Flex costs all that? I think flash/flex is no option :s It's too expensive to brazillian market :p On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 23:09, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote: Sid Ferreira wrote: How many time Flex/Flash took to pay it self? I think a lot of people on the flash lists don't realise how much money some corporates invest in software development. $15K would be a fraction of the development costs in some projects. It's a completely different situation to freelancers that are working with their own development tools. Corporates are rationalising development costs across many customers while often freelancers/small companies are rationalising their costs from one or very few customers. Paul On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 22:29, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote: I am still quite amazed that Macromedia ever developed Flex. I suspect that a few people on the list might not know that originally it would cost something like $6,000 for a Flex licence and some serious server power was also required. More than that - Flex 1.x was around $15k USD according to our pricelist. And, frankly, it kind of sucked. But Flex 2 changed all that! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders You can completely go open source, developing flash and even flex applications. A good explanation how to use Flash Develop you can find here - even when it covers flex 2: http://danny-t.co.uk/index.php/tutorials/free-flex2-development-environment/ Check the book from Friends of Ed. open source development with flash for even more information. Greatings Beatrix ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
[Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
I know this isn't actually an Adobe Flex / Adobe Flash Builder list (actually, if you know a good one, forward me), but today a client sent a briefing asking the website to be done in Adobe Flex. Once it will need CEO and it isn't for small audiences, we plan to deny it, but then I got the doubt: Are there good websites made in flex? Here is a link of a website made for us using flash technology, and it's what we would like to do: http://www.florense.com Thanks in advance! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
I do website with flex, flex builder is a best IDE thant Flash IDE. And using flex is more easy to do somethings, and one good thing for me it is less code lines. Some website I do, in spanish. http://www.salgueda.com/ http://www.bricoceramic.com/ Giro. 2009/11/18 Sid Ferreira sid@gmail.com I know this isn't actually an Adobe Flex / Adobe Flash Builder list (actually, if you know a good one, forward me), but today a client sent a briefing asking the website to be done in Adobe Flex. Once it will need CEO and it isn't for small audiences, we plan to deny it, but then I got the doubt: Are there good websites made in flex? Here is a link of a website made for us using flash technology, and it's what we would like to do: http://www.florense.com Thanks in advance! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Giro wrote: I do website with flex, flex builder is a best IDE thant Flash IDE. And using flex is more easy to do somethings, and one good thing for me it is less code lines. I find the opposite to be true. The swf format has a lot of neat features that you are just throwing away when using Flex. For example, the ability to use vector graphics. I wouldn't use Flex unless I had to. Sure, Flex Builder has code hinting, but so does CS 5. I find that there is less and less reasons to use Flex these days. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Well, indeed you changed my mind... Now, a thing that bothers me is that buttons, for instance, uses timeline and not AS animation... On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 09:19, Cedric Muller flashco...@benga.li wrote: Hi, My answer is one of those very general and informative answers, please pardon me for that. All in all, Flex / Flash Builder is just Flash platform ... which is just Flash. Flash is Flash. The florense site could have been done with Flex. Actually you can use Flex Builder to build a 100% actionscript project involving NONE of the flex framework / components. Flex / Flash Builder is just a nice IDE, truely dedicated towards application development. I am answering to your question with the one I asked to Gringo's ( http://www.gringo.nu/ co founder: Do you happen to use Flex in the websites/applications you produce ? Answer: Yes, almost always. From that answer I started wondering what Flex was :) Now I am building custom components for Flex specialists :) Actually it is quite amazing how far you can consolidate what you learnt with Flash. Moreover if you are being able to develop sites like florense.com you will be able to do great things with Flex, and definitely replicate what you did in Flash with some time gain, if you are being proficient. Another question could be: why does the client want Flex ? (because SEO is not an answer, it can be done with a 100% pure AS project compiled with Flash IDE). hth, Cedric I know this isn't actually an Adobe Flex / Adobe Flash Builder list (actually, if you know a good one, forward me), but today a client sent a briefing asking the website to be done in Adobe Flex. Once it will need CEO and it isn't for small audiences, we plan to deny it, but then I got the doubt: Are there good websites made in flex? Here is a link of a website made for us using flash technology, and it's what we would like to do: http://www.florense.com Thanks in advance! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Hi, But you can easily create your own button type class rather than use the Flash symbols... Glen Sid Ferreira wrote: Well, indeed you changed my mind... Now, a thing that bothers me is that buttons, for instance, uses timeline and not AS animation... On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 09:19, Cedric Muller flashco...@benga.li wrote: Hi, My answer is one of those very general and informative answers, please pardon me for that. All in all, Flex / Flash Builder is just Flash platform ... which is just Flash. Flash is Flash. The florense site could have been done with Flex. Actually you can use Flex Builder to build a 100% actionscript project involving NONE of the flex framework / components. Flex / Flash Builder is just a nice IDE, truely dedicated towards application development. I am answering to your question with the one I asked to Gringo's ( http://www.gringo.nu/ co founder: Do you happen to use Flex in the websites/applications you produce ? Answer: Yes, almost always. From that answer I started wondering what Flex was :) Now I am building custom components for Flex specialists :) Actually it is quite amazing how far you can consolidate what you learnt with Flash. Moreover if you are being able to develop sites like florense.com you will be able to do great things with Flex, and definitely replicate what you did in Flash with some time gain, if you are being proficient. Another question could be: why does the client want Flex ? (because SEO is not an answer, it can be done with a 100% pure AS project compiled with Flash IDE). hth, Cedric I know this isn't actually an Adobe Flex / Adobe Flash Builder list (actually, if you know a good one, forward me), but today a client sent a briefing asking the website to be done in Adobe Flex. Once it will need CEO and it isn't for small audiences, we plan to deny it, but then I got the doubt: Are there good websites made in flex? Here is a link of a website made for us using flash technology, and it's what we would like to do: http://www.florense.com Thanks in advance! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
I need to retake the studies in flex... At this moment Im deciding between Html 5 or focus in the flash media... On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 09:51, Glen Pike g...@engineeredarts.co.uk wrote: Hi, But you can easily create your own button type class rather than use the Flash symbols... Glen Sid Ferreira wrote: Well, indeed you changed my mind... Now, a thing that bothers me is that buttons, for instance, uses timeline and not AS animation... On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 09:19, Cedric Muller flashco...@benga.li wrote: Hi, My answer is one of those very general and informative answers, please pardon me for that. All in all, Flex / Flash Builder is just Flash platform ... which is just Flash. Flash is Flash. The florense site could have been done with Flex. Actually you can use Flex Builder to build a 100% actionscript project involving NONE of the flex framework / components. Flex / Flash Builder is just a nice IDE, truely dedicated towards application development. I am answering to your question with the one I asked to Gringo's ( http://www.gringo.nu/ co founder: Do you happen to use Flex in the websites/applications you produce ? Answer: Yes, almost always. From that answer I started wondering what Flex was :) Now I am building custom components for Flex specialists :) Actually it is quite amazing how far you can consolidate what you learnt with Flash. Moreover if you are being able to develop sites like florense.com you will be able to do great things with Flex, and definitely replicate what you did in Flash with some time gain, if you are being proficient. Another question could be: why does the client want Flex ? (because SEO is not an answer, it can be done with a 100% pure AS project compiled with Flash IDE). hth, Cedric I know this isn't actually an Adobe Flex / Adobe Flash Builder list (actually, if you know a good one, forward me), but today a client sent a briefing asking the website to be done in Adobe Flex. Once it will need CEO and it isn't for small audiences, we plan to deny it, but then I got the doubt: Are there good websites made in flex? Here is a link of a website made for us using flash technology, and it's what we would like to do: http://www.florense.com Thanks in advance! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Hi! I tend to start a project in flash IDE and then code it all the way inside a flex bluider or eclipse + FDT. I just use my IDE for Flash assets like custom constructed components. That way you have all the neat code hinting (wich you still dont have in IDE) and have all the good things from the Flash and not Flex. Sid Ferreira escreveu: I need to retake the studies in flex... At this moment Im deciding between Html 5 or focus in the flash media... On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 09:51, Glen Pike g...@engineeredarts.co.uk wrote: Hi, But you can easily create your own button type class rather than use the Flash symbols... Glen Sid Ferreira wrote: Well, indeed you changed my mind... Now, a thing that bothers me is that buttons, for instance, uses timeline and not AS animation... On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 09:19, Cedric Muller flashco...@benga.li wrote: Hi, My answer is one of those very general and informative answers, please pardon me for that. All in all, Flex / Flash Builder is just Flash platform ... which is just Flash. Flash is Flash. The florense site could have been done with Flex. Actually you can use Flex Builder to build a 100% actionscript project involving NONE of the flex framework / components. Flex / Flash Builder is just a nice IDE, truely dedicated towards application development. I am answering to your question with the one I asked to Gringo's ( http://www.gringo.nu/ co founder: Do you happen to use Flex in the websites/applications you produce ? Answer: Yes, almost always. From that answer I started wondering what Flex was :) Now I am building custom components for Flex specialists :) Actually it is quite amazing how far you can consolidate what you learnt with Flash. Moreover if you are being able to develop sites like florense.com you will be able to do great things with Flex, and definitely replicate what you did in Flash with some time gain, if you are being proficient. Another question could be: why does the client want Flex ? (because SEO is not an answer, it can be done with a 100% pure AS project compiled with Flash IDE). hth, Cedric I know this isn't actually an Adobe Flex / Adobe Flash Builder list (actually, if you know a good one, forward me), but today a client sent a briefing asking the website to be done in Adobe Flex. Once it will need CEO and it isn't for small audiences, we plan to deny it, but then I got the doubt: Are there good websites made in flex? Here is a link of a website made for us using flash technology, and it's what we would like to do: http://www.florense.com Thanks in advance! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
But, now the big question: How to handle with the legal costs? In brazil there are many people using flash, most of them I doubt are legal... Mauro: Are you brazillian? On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:04, Mauro Martins mauroalexandremart...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! I tend to start a project in flash IDE and then code it all the way inside a flex bluider or eclipse + FDT. I just use my IDE for Flash assets like custom constructed components. That way you have all the neat code hinting (wich you still dont have in IDE) and have all the good things from the Flash and not Flex. Sid Ferreira escreveu: I need to retake the studies in flex... At this moment Im deciding between Html 5 or focus in the flash media... On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 09:51, Glen Pike g...@engineeredarts.co.uk wrote: Hi, But you can easily create your own button type class rather than use the Flash symbols... Glen Sid Ferreira wrote: Well, indeed you changed my mind... Now, a thing that bothers me is that buttons, for instance, uses timeline and not AS animation... On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 09:19, Cedric Muller flashco...@benga.li wrote: Hi, My answer is one of those very general and informative answers, please pardon me for that. All in all, Flex / Flash Builder is just Flash platform ... which is just Flash. Flash is Flash. The florense site could have been done with Flex. Actually you can use Flex Builder to build a 100% actionscript project involving NONE of the flex framework / components. Flex / Flash Builder is just a nice IDE, truely dedicated towards application development. I am answering to your question with the one I asked to Gringo's ( http://www.gringo.nu/ co founder: Do you happen to use Flex in the websites/applications you produce ? Answer: Yes, almost always. From that answer I started wondering what Flex was :) Now I am building custom components for Flex specialists :) Actually it is quite amazing how far you can consolidate what you learnt with Flash. Moreover if you are being able to develop sites like florense.com you will be able to do great things with Flex, and definitely replicate what you did in Flash with some time gain, if you are being proficient. Another question could be: why does the client want Flex ? (because SEO is not an answer, it can be done with a 100% pure AS project compiled with Flash IDE). hth, Cedric I know this isn't actually an Adobe Flex / Adobe Flash Builder list (actually, if you know a good one, forward me), but today a client sent a briefing asking the website to be done in Adobe Flex. Once it will need CEO and it isn't for small audiences, we plan to deny it, but then I got the doubt: Are there good websites made in flex? Here is a link of a website made for us using flash technology, and it's what we would like to do: http://www.florense.com Thanks in advance! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
You can use vector graphics on flex. You can create this on flash and export to flex as symbol inside a swf. On flex you can scale and don't lose quality. Giro.. 2009/11/18 Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.net Giro wrote: I do website with flex, flex builder is a best IDE thant Flash IDE. And using flex is more easy to do somethings, and one good thing for me it is less code lines. I find the opposite to be true. The swf format has a lot of neat features that you are just throwing away when using Flex. For example, the ability to use vector graphics. I wouldn't use Flex unless I had to. Sure, Flex Builder has code hinting, but so does CS 5. I find that there is less and less reasons to use Flex these days. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Giro wrote: You can use vector graphics on flex. You can create this on flash and export to flex as symbol inside a swf. On flex you can scale and don't lose quality. Using Flash to create graphics for flex kinda defeats the point of flex, doesn't it? ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
This is a real problem... it's over expensive a flash license... On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:35, Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.netwrote: Giro wrote: You can use vector graphics on flex. You can create this on flash and export to flex as symbol inside a swf. On flex you can scale and don't lose quality. Using Flash to create graphics for flex kinda defeats the point of flex, doesn't it? ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Not. You only use flash to create a vector graphic, but not code on flash, all code is in flex. The same for example if you user photoshop to create jpeg and use this jpeg on flex. Giro 2009/11/18 Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.net Giro wrote: You can use vector graphics on flex. You can create this on flash and export to flex as symbol inside a swf. On flex you can scale and don't lose quality. Using Flash to create graphics for flex kinda defeats the point of flex, doesn't it? ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
What about handle libraries? Create classes to define the look of a button? On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:46, Giro g...@enhoresdefeina.com wrote: Not. You only use flash to create a vector graphic, but not code on flash, all code is in flex. The same for example if you user photoshop to create jpeg and use this jpeg on flex. Giro 2009/11/18 Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.net Giro wrote: You can use vector graphics on flex. You can create this on flash and export to flex as symbol inside a swf. On flex you can scale and don't lose quality. Using Flash to create graphics for flex kinda defeats the point of flex, doesn't it? ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Sid Ferreira wrote: I know this isn't actually an Adobe Flex / Adobe Flash Builder list (actually, if you know a good one, forward me), I don't know how anyone on a flashcoders list could possibly miss flexcoders, or the adobe flex forums.. ;-) but today a client sent a briefing asking the website to be done in Adobe Flex. Once it will need CEO and it isn't for small audiences, we plan to deny it, but then I got the doubt: Are there good websites made in flex? Here is a link of a website made for us using flash technology, and it's what we would like to do: http://www.florense.com Very nice site. I can see that you've had a fair number of responses, though in my opinion they mostly miss the point of using Flex completely. I would agree that the flex IDE is better than the Flash one, but that doesn't make Flex a replacement for Flash. In a simplistic comparison of the Flex and Flash IDE, the Flash IDE supports a way of working with graphical assets presented using a timeline and layer metaphor with good support for the production of bespoke graphics for animation. In comparison the FlexBuilder (cough, Flash Builder) IDE does not offer good support for the production of such graphical assets, but is oriented towards the creation of software interfaces using inbuilt and bespoke components without the use of a timeline. On that basis,for most of the tasks Flash is used for, Flex would appear to be quite inferior, but in practice the FlexBuilder IDE has a far superior debugger and development environment for actionscript projects or component based interfaces. Flash is complimetary to flex rather than a direct competitor for it since it is strong on animation, the timeline metaphor and the production of sophisticated graphical assets via the IDE. Flash developed assets are often incorporated into Flex projects. So why bother with Flex? The answer is that is far easier to produce software interfaces using it than with Flash. The reasons are below. Flex offers sophisticated layout managers that are missing from Flash, so that the display of multiple assets in a table or grid is a matter of adding a component rather than rolling your own. There is a sophisticated table (datagrid) component and charting options. The ide supports the use of state-based interface development and the development of interfaces can be achieved via the designer interface, mxml (a tagged representation of components, rather like xhtml), or actionscript. As well as this, Flex supports binding between components allowing data changes to be propagated between components. Flex also excels at transitions and effects. You can build quite sophisticated things in Flex with very little actionscript, just by assembling components and binding them to data providers. So a broad brush comparison sees Flex as suitable for applications that do real work and data manipulation rather than the eye candy often associated with Flash, though there is a huge crossover - Flash can be used for sophisticated application and indeed Flex can provide the eye candy. The provision of layout managers and interface components in Flex means that if you use them, the swf size is generally much larger than swf produced by the Flash IDE - it's simply that the components themselves have a lot of code in them that become part of the resultant swf. If your client is looking for a 100K swf for their website, you won't be using Flex with the layout managers or datagrid. I would also venture that the ethos of Flex is towards enterprise development in teams. I hope my bad description is helpful. I think Adobe messed up with the production of Flash Builder, which must be really confusing to many people who haven't used Flash and Flex already. Paul Thanks in advance! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Paul Andrews wrote: Stuff Allow me to summarize your post: You think that Flash is good for graphical projects, such as animations. You also think that Flex builder is better for creating software. You like the Flex components and how they are data driven. You acknowledge that Flex projects end up larger, due to having more code doing stuff instead of the authoring tool. My opinion: I think that Flash is better for anything that isn't strictly code only, and that is more or less all projects, since it's quite boring to design graphics using code. The upcoming code completion in Flash CS 5 seems to take care of most coding needs in my opinion. It's not going to give you any fancy class feature listing panels or profilers, but those are rarely needed. If I had to chose what to use, I would use Flash, because I want to use the full swf format. I do not think that Flex alone can do that. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Allow me to summarize your post: You think that Flash is good for graphical projects, such as animations. You also think that Flex builder is better for creating software. You like the Flex components and how they are data driven. You acknowledge that Flex projects end up larger, due to having more code doing stuff instead of the authoring tool. That never works out very well, does it? Because it seems to me that your summary missed a lot of Paul's points. My opinion: I think that Flash is better for anything that isn't strictly code only, and that is more or less all projects, since it's quite boring to design graphics using code. The upcoming code completion in Flash CS 5 seems to take care of most coding needs in my opinion. It's not going to give you any fancy class feature listing panels or profilers, but those are rarely needed. If I had to chose what to use, I would use Flash, because I want to use the full swf format. I do not think that Flex alone can do that. But you don't have to pick one. You can use both. Or, like me, you can use one and work with someone who uses the other. But if you just see Flex as nothing more than a subset of Flash, you're kind of missing the point. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Dave Watts wrote: Allow me to summarize your post: That never works out very well, does it? Because it seems to me that your summary missed a lot of Paul's points. When summarizing, you have to remove details. I just focused on what I felt was the core message. But if you just see Flex as nothing more than a subset of Flash, you're kind of missing the point. Oh, but I am not. Flex is not just a subset of Flash. It has it's own components that Flash does not come with. It also has mxml, that Flash does not support at all. And for builder, it has a bunch of profilers, and Flash has none. I just think that the Flash unique features are better than the Flex unique features for most purposes. And of course, you can use both. With the announced Flash and Flex Builder integration, that will work even better. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.net wrote: My opinion: I think that Flash is better for anything that isn't strictly code only, and that is more or less all projects, since it's quite boring to design graphics using code. The upcoming code completion in Flash CS 5 seems to take care of most coding needs in my opinion. It's not going to give you any fancy class feature listing panels or profilers, but those are rarely needed. If I had to chose what to use, I would use Flash, because I want to use the full swf format. I do not think that Flex alone can do that. We seem to be getting confused between Flex, Flex Builder and Flash here. Flash - obviously - is a vector graphics editor and a cut-down code editor. It leans towards the visual side. Flex Builder/Flash Builder is simply a programming environment - a code editor and component layout tool. It leans towards the coding side. Flex (or the Flex SDK) is _not_ Flex Builder. It is a component framework (written in ActionScript - and MXML which is actually compiled to ActionScript) and a compiler. It can make use of any assets created by Flash. (And yes, it can use the whole SWF format, by drawing in SWF assets and recompiling them.) You don't have to design graphics using code in Flex Builder; you can design graphics in Flash, and use them from code that you write in Flex Builder. The two products are _complementary_, not rivals. Flex Builder works together with Flash. The choices for creating a website (which started this discussion) include (but are not limited to): 1) Use Flash to do the layout; don't use the Flex framework classes, write your own classes to support the Flash assets that you've created. 2) Use the Flex component framework, create visual assets to use within the framework using Flash, extend the Flex code with your own logic to support the site. 2) need not be more expensive, as you don't have to use Flex Builder, you can simply use the free Flex SDK. Flex is effectively just a series of useful components with a bit of syntactic sugar on top. Reasons you _might_ want to use Flex for your project: - A lot of hard work done for you. Why write another scrollbar or progress bar from scratch when that code already exists? - Very easy to layout complex forms and tables. - Very easy to skin/change global appearance (using CSS) Reasons you might not want to use Flex for your project: - Including the Flex framework in your application makes your SWF significantly bigger. - Your site simply might not suit Flex; if you don't have form layouts, tables and buttons to deal with, Flex may be overkill. Once again - the two are _complementary_. It's not a choice between the two. It's a choice between using Flash as is, or using Flash + a library of premade components. Ian ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Henrik Andersson wrote: Paul Andrews wrote: Stuff Allow me to summarize your post: You think that Flash is good for graphical projects, such as animations. You also think that Flex builder is better for creating software. You like the Flex components and how they are data driven. You acknowledge that Flex projects end up larger, due to having more code doing stuff instead of the authoring tool. My opinion: I think that Flash is better for anything that isn't strictly code only, and that is more or less all projects, since it's quite boring to design graphics using code. I would disagree with that statement since it implies that Flex doesn't support IDE based graphical design - which it does - but only for components and not general design work. Your statement also forgets the tedium of building complex layout management of the kind that comes with Flex. The upcoming code completion in Flash CS 5 seems to take care of most coding needs in my opinion. It's not going to give you any fancy class feature listing panels or profilers, but those are rarely needed. I would say I can't really comment on CS5, but it seems to be a catchup game with Flex and coding support. A lot of developers would strongly disagree with the idea that class documentation support or profiling is rarely needed - it's more a question of project scale and coding emphasis perhaps. If I had to chose what to use, I would use Flash, because I want to use the full swf format. I do not think that Flex alone can do that. Anything that the swf format supports can be achieved using Flex (albeit via actionscript, than perhaps IDE support). I'm not knocking Flash - it's far better for many tasks than Flex and vice-versa. Paul ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
The cool thing is the future :) Adobe wants to correct this bias; Flash Builder will happen, and the distinction between Flex Builder and Flex framework will melt. There we will be happy and everything :) The IDE is about to get all dressed up for a sexy evening ;) Now, if one could, he/she can reinvent its wheel, developping his/her own framework, handling data processes and liquid layouts and more all with Flash, that's not a problem. The current really nice thing about the flex framework is how simple it is to build up something **quickly**; the current downside of the flex framework is that some people do not know that everything under it is a Flash Player thing. Next, people won't even know how to build their own buttons :( (the last paragraph is optional and not intended to pun anyone) As Paul says, the crucial part is to know when to use the Flex Framework, because as all frameworks, it *can* have its downside. Anyways, the easier way to build up applications is to use Flex Builder and Flex Framework. But we all know that good Flex applications are all customized and built upon strong knowledge of Flash. Cedric Henrik Andersson wrote: Paul Andrews wrote: Stuff Allow me to summarize your post: You think that Flash is good for graphical projects, such as animations. You also think that Flex builder is better for creating software. You like the Flex components and how they are data driven. You acknowledge that Flex projects end up larger, due to having more code doing stuff instead of the authoring tool. My opinion: I think that Flash is better for anything that isn't strictly code only, and that is more or less all projects, since it's quite boring to design graphics using code. I would disagree with that statement since it implies that Flex doesn't support IDE based graphical design - which it does - but only for components and not general design work. Your statement also forgets the tedium of building complex layout management of the kind that comes with Flex. The upcoming code completion in Flash CS 5 seems to take care of most coding needs in my opinion. It's not going to give you any fancy class feature listing panels or profilers, but those are rarely needed. I would say I can't really comment on CS5, but it seems to be a catchup game with Flex and coding support. A lot of developers would strongly disagree with the idea that class documentation support or profiling is rarely needed - it's more a question of project scale and coding emphasis perhaps. If I had to chose what to use, I would use Flash, because I want to use the full swf format. I do not think that Flex alone can do that. Anything that the swf format supports can be achieved using Flex (albeit via actionscript, than perhaps IDE support). I'm not knocking Flash - it's far better for many tasks than Flex and vice-versa. Paul ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Ian Thomas wrote: Stuff You seem to ignore the components that Flash does ship with. We can fight about whose components are the best, but I am not interested in that. I also never claimed that they where rivals, I see them as different tools designed for different tasks. You seem to think that importing stuff already made in Flash is the same as having all the features of Flash. I disagree. You do not get the same swf structure in the end. I am not even sure if the flex compiler even retains framelabels. I know for sure that it does not retain the document class. Given that it has a tendency to be critical for proper execution when used, removing it makes the swf useless. Oh, and as previously discussed, you need to use Flash in addition to Flex in order to import Flash assets. That's one more license you have to pay for. Either you use only the Flex sdk, Flex builder and the sdk, only Flash or Flash, flex sdk and flex builder. Using only Flash costs less than using Flash and Flex builder. But using only Flex builder costs less than only using Flash. Of course, there are other editors (like notepad and flash develop) that you can use. But I know of no editor that has a working debugger other than Flash and Flex builder. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Glen Pike wrote: But you can easily create your own button type class rather than use the Flash symbols... In fact, you can do your buttons, or movie clips, and the like in Flash. Publish the .swf, and you can download it using Flex and use all the assets in it. Flex's real strong point is that it is a superior coder's environment--better debugger, faster editor. It is not a good environment for artists and designers, by and large. Your hard-core coders use Flex, the animators and designers use Flash, and everybody is happy. I should be more specific. Flex is the free Eclipse-based base. Flex Builder, which I use, is the coding environment. I use it only for AS3--I literally have never used the GUI to do MXML. There are other development environments for Flex, such as FlashBuilder, which is free. It's really nice, though it doesn't have a debugger. Still, you can use Flex entirely for free if you wish. All Flex is, in the end, is another way of making .swf files. You don't have to do the entire site in Flex--you can use it just like Flash. In fact, I recommend that you do discrete elements in Flex, and build the site using these elements. That way, when AS4 comes out, you have your AS3 code isolated, and can keep developing new pages without having to re-engineer the AS3 pages. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Henrik Andersson he...@henke37.cjb.net wrote: You seem to ignore the components that Flash does ship with. We can fight about whose components are the best, but I am not interested in that. Neither am I. I also never claimed that they where rivals, I see them as different tools designed for different tasks. They are different, _complementary_ tools, that's the point. Both can be used together to achieve a task. You seem to think that importing stuff already made in Flash is the same as having all the features of Flash. I disagree. You do not get the same swf structure in the end. I am not even sure if the flex compiler even retains framelabels. It does. I know for sure that it does not retain the document class. Given that it has a tendency to be critical for proper execution when used, removing it makes the swf useless. That's because if you are using the Flex compiler, you already have an entrypoint class (usually derived from Application, but can be derived from Sprite) which is the equivalent of the Document class. Yes, it's a different structure to your project, but ends up with much the same results. The approach to a Flex SDK based app is simply slightly different - you write code for the Flex compiler, and treat Flash assets as graphics. As Cedric says, the integration between the two is getting closer, but I'd very strongly argue that there's nothing you can do in Flash alone that you can't achieve with Flex + Flash. I'd love an example to disprove that. Oh, and as previously discussed, you need to use Flash in addition to Flex in order to import Flash assets. That's one more license you have to pay for. Either you use only the Flex sdk, Flex builder and the sdk, only Flash or Flash, flex sdk and flex builder. Using only Flash costs less than using Flash and Flex builder. But using only Flex builder costs less than only using Flash. No you don't. You missed my point - you can use the Flex SDK, which is free. If you already have Flash and are using it, there's no additional cost. Personally, I don't use Flex Builder, I use FlashDevelop + Flash. Of course, there are other editors (like notepad and flash develop) that you can use. But I know of no editor that has a working debugger other than Flash and Flex builder. The Flex SDK provides a free debugger, actually, called FDB. Command-line driven, but it is there. Ian ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
I'd just like to add: - I use Flash for some projects. - I use the Flex SDK + Flash for other projects. It's simply about choosing the right tool for the job. Getting back to the original poster's question, as Giro has demonstrated with his samples, yes there are good sites written in Flex, and there's nothing stopping Sid achieving the sort of site he was asking about in Flex if he wanted to. Ian ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Henrik Andersson wrote Using Flash to create graphics for flex kinda defeats the point of flex, doesn't it? Not at all. You can have a broad code base, a fully OOP implementation, in Flex, for your programmers. Your designers and artists use Flash. There's no conflict--in fact, it's the best of both worlds. Everybody works in the environment best suited for them. Even when I've done one-man projects, I've mixed Flash animations with Flex code. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Sidn Ferreira wrote: At this moment Im deciding between Html 5 or focus in the flash media... It's not an either-or choice. You can use both. Javascript, too. We do on our site, www.poptropica.com. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
In Kerry's post read: There are other development environments for Flex, such as FlashBuilder, which is free as There are other development environments for Flex, such as FlashDEVELOP, which is free and read Flex is the free Eclipse-based base Flex IDE which is not free is build upon Eclipse IDE, which is free; they both compile trough the free flex sdk /compiler Latcho al...@cyberiantiger.biz wrote: Glen Pike wrote: But you can easily create your own button type class rather than use the Flash symbols... In fact, you can do your buttons, or movie clips, and the like in Flash. Publish the .swf, and you can download it using Flex and use all the assets in it. Flex's real strong point is that it is a superior coder's environment--better debugger, faster editor. It is not a good environment for artists and designers, by and large. Your hard-core coders use Flex, the animators and designers use Flash, and everybody is happy. I should be more specific. Flex is the free Eclipse-based base. Flex Builder, which I use, is the coding environment. I use it only for AS3--I literally have never used the GUI to do MXML. There are other development environments for Flex, such as FlashBuilder, which is free. It's really nice, though it doesn't have a debugger. Still, you can use Flex entirely for free if you wish. All Flex is, in the end, is another way of making .swf files. You don't have to do the entire site in Flex--you can use it just like Flash. In fact, I recommend that you do discrete elements in Flex, and build the site using these elements. That way, when AS4 comes out, you have your AS3 code isolated, and can keep developing new pages without having to re-engineer the AS3 pages. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
In Kerry's post read: There are other development environments for Flex, such as FlashBuilder, which is free as There are other development environments for Flex, such as FlashDEVELOP, which is free and read Flex is the free Eclipse-based base Flex IDE which is not free is build upon Eclipse IDE, which is free; they both compile trough the free flex sdk /compiler Latcho al...@cyberiantiger.biz wrote: Glen Pike wrote: But you can easily create your own button type class rather than use the Flash symbols... In fact, you can do your buttons, or movie clips, and the like in Flash. Publish the .swf, and you can download it using Flex and use all the assets in it. Flex's real strong point is that it is a superior coder's environment--better debugger, faster editor. It is not a good environment for artists and designers, by and large. Your hard-core coders use Flex, the animators and designers use Flash, and everybody is happy. I should be more specific. Flex is the free Eclipse-based base. Flex Builder, which I use, is the coding environment. I use it only for AS3--I literally have never used the GUI to do MXML. There are other development environments for Flex, such as FlashBuilder, which is free. It's really nice, though it doesn't have a debugger. Still, you can use Flex entirely for free if you wish. All Flex is, in the end, is another way of making .swf files. You don't have to do the entire site in Flex--you can use it just like Flash. In fact, I recommend that you do discrete elements in Flex, and build the site using these elements. That way, when AS4 comes out, you have your AS3 code isolated, and can keep developing new pages without having to re-engineer the AS3 pages. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Allow me to summarize your post: That never works out very well, does it? Because it seems to me that your summary missed a lot of Paul's points. When summarizing, you have to remove details. I just focused on what I felt was the core message. Right, but Paul may disagree with you about what that core message is, exactly. In my reading of Paul's message, I got something quite a bit different than you did. One of the things that I got out of it was the focus that Flex Builder/Flash Builder has on enterprise development, which is really quite a different thing from many Flash development projects I suspect. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Dave Watts wrote: Allow me to summarize your post: That never works out very well, does it? Because it seems to me that your summary missed a lot of Paul's points. When summarizing, you have to remove details. I just focused on what I felt was the core message. Right, but Paul may disagree with you about what that core message is, exactly. In my reading of Paul's message, I got something quite a bit different than you did. One of the things that I got out of it was the focus that Flex Builder/Flash Builder has on enterprise development, which is really quite a different thing from many Flash development projects I suspect. I think that's right. I generally think that Flex addresses many of the reasons why Flash was unappealing to many traditional developers who were used to programming languages such as Java, etc who found Flash a very poor development environment compared to what they were used to. Naturally, times have changed and Flash is now rather more sophisticated than when Flex first saw the light of day. Flash was always considered a toy or rather flippant technology in corporate development circles. I am still quite amazed that Macromedia ever developed Flex. I suspect that a few people on the list might not know that originally it would cost something like $6,000 for a Flex licence and some serious server power was also required. I applaud Macromedia for developing Flex (and perhaps also the developers of FutureSplash ;-) ). Paul Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
I am still quite amazed that Macromedia ever developed Flex. I suspect that a few people on the list might not know that originally it would cost something like $6,000 for a Flex licence and some serious server power was also required. More than that - Flex 1.x was around $15k USD according to our pricelist. And, frankly, it kind of sucked. But Flex 2 changed all that! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
How many time Flex/Flash took to pay it self? On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 22:29, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote: I am still quite amazed that Macromedia ever developed Flex. I suspect that a few people on the list might not know that originally it would cost something like $6,000 for a Flex licence and some serious server power was also required. More than that - Flex 1.x was around $15k USD according to our pricelist. And, frankly, it kind of sucked. But Flex 2 changed all that! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
How many time Flex/Flash took to pay it self? $15K USD is a drop in the bucket for enterprise software. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Who uses Adobe Flex?
Sid Ferreira wrote: How many time Flex/Flash took to pay it self? I think a lot of people on the flash lists don't realise how much money some corporates invest in software development. $15K would be a fraction of the development costs in some projects. It's a completely different situation to freelancers that are working with their own development tools. Corporates are rationalising development costs across many customers while often freelancers/small companies are rationalising their costs from one or very few customers. Paul On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 22:29, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote: I am still quite amazed that Macromedia ever developed Flex. I suspect that a few people on the list might not know that originally it would cost something like $6,000 for a Flex licence and some serious server power was also required. More than that - Flex 1.x was around $15k USD according to our pricelist. And, frankly, it kind of sucked. But Flex 2 changed all that! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
