Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
it must be paying for a lot of local country specialists, lawyers, etc. which are unique to each country Well, that makes sense, but as the article says, how then Adobe competitors manage to keep that difference wy slower? A little bit of overprice? Fair enough. But not *that* difference. On 4/24/07, Newsdee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for prices changing from this, unfortunately. At the end of the day pricing is purely a marketing function, and in that world the only rule is to charge as much as the customer is willing to pay. Then there are hundreds of ways to justify the price by calling accounting and agreeing on what costs are being covered by the price. For all you know the price difference is to pay for the private jets that the sales reps are taking to go around Europe..! (*) In addition, it is likely that the target for these prices are companies, not individuals. Said companies can get the VAT off in some countries, and may benefit from other tax cuts (e.g. passing this as an expense) which makes them much more willing to foot the bill than your average developer guy/gal, who has to pay from his/her net income and pay VAT on top of it. So... I don't believe it's going to change unless some of the subsidiaries see drops in profits. It's going to take some massive boycotting or perhaps push from an open-source competitor product for things to change... both unlikely. (*) ...or more likely, it must be paying for a lot of local country specialists, lawyers, etc. which are unique to each country, thus driving the overhead costs through the roof. On 4/24/07, Zárate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, Sorry to bring this up again, but Danielle Libine has put up a really interesting pdf about the subject. He gathers lots of data with really clear graphics about prices and countries. Then a couple of questions for Adobe: http://web.mac.com/libine/iWeb/Site/Article.html I think we really should keep the pressure up and force Adobe to at least give a public, official explanation. Hopefully a review of the prices. Cheers, Juan On 4/7/07, Søren Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it is totally f*ckd up - production bundle upgrade: us: $1199 / €897 eu/spain: $2630 / €1967 So guess which side of the atlantic i am buying my upgrade ;-) Cheers, B) Søren On Mar 28, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Joe Wheeler wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- Juan Delgado - Zárate http://zarate.tv http://dandolachapa.com http://loqueyosede.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- Juan Delgado - Zárate http://zarate.tv http://dandolachapa.com http://loqueyosede.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
wow, that's an really good thread here. it hits the point. but please sign this petition: Online petition - Fair pricing for European Software / Des prix corrects pour les logiciels vendus en Europe http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html cheers, max ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Hi guys, Sorry to bring this up again, but Danielle Libine has put up a really interesting pdf about the subject. He gathers lots of data with really clear graphics about prices and countries. Then a couple of questions for Adobe: http://web.mac.com/libine/iWeb/Site/Article.html I think we really should keep the pressure up and force Adobe to at least give a public, official explanation. Hopefully a review of the prices. Cheers, Juan On 4/7/07, Søren Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it is totally f*ckd up - production bundle upgrade: us: $1199 / €897 eu/spain: $2630 / €1967 So guess which side of the atlantic i am buying my upgrade ;-) Cheers, B) Søren On Mar 28, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Joe Wheeler wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- Juan Delgado - Zárate http://zarate.tv http://dandolachapa.com http://loqueyosede.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
I will print this PDF and distribute it around ... to consumer associations and the students It has to be done whatever the reasons. Things must be fair and correct. Thanks Cedric Hi guys, Sorry to bring this up again, but Danielle Libine has put up a really interesting pdf about the subject. He gathers lots of data with really clear graphics about prices and countries. Then a couple of questions for Adobe: http://web.mac.com/libine/iWeb/Site/Article.html I think we really should keep the pressure up and force Adobe to at least give a public, official explanation. Hopefully a review of the prices. Cheers, Juan On 4/7/07, Søren Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it is totally f*ckd up - production bundle upgrade: us: $1199 / €897 eu/spain: $2630 / €1967 So guess which side of the atlantic i am buying my upgrade ;-) Cheers, B) Søren On Mar 28, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Joe Wheeler wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- Juan Delgado - Zárate http://zarate.tv http://dandolachapa.com http://loqueyosede.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Excellent article. I'll pass it around. Ian On 4/24/07, Zárate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, Sorry to bring this up again, but Danielle Libine has put up a really interesting pdf about the subject. He gathers lots of data with really clear graphics about prices and countries. Then a couple of questions for Adobe: http://web.mac.com/libine/iWeb/Site/Article.html I think we really should keep the pressure up and force Adobe to at least give a public, official explanation. Hopefully a review of the prices. Cheers, Juan On 4/7/07, Søren Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it is totally f*ckd up - production bundle upgrade: us: $1199 / €897 eu/spain: $2630 / €1967 So guess which side of the atlantic i am buying my upgrade ;-) Cheers, B) Søren On Mar 28, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Joe Wheeler wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- Juan Delgado - Zárate http://zarate.tv http://dandolachapa.com http://loqueyosede.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
A related issue which has got me wondering is what to do with some of my old software... The upgrade path to either CS3 Web Premium or Design premium assumes that we have one of several existing versions of software including Creative Suite 2 OR Macromedia Studio 8. I'm sure there are many others on this list who own BOTH of these, yet that counts for nothing when upgrading. I'm contemplating using Studio 8 to unlock the upgrade package then selling Creative Suite 2 - with the proper licence transfer of course. I suppose I could also purchase two copies of the Cretaive Suite 3 - use CS2 to unlock one and Macromedia Studio 8 to unlock the other, then onsell one of the CS3 bundles. Any thoughts? David ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for prices changing from this, unfortunately. At the end of the day pricing is purely a marketing function, and in that world the only rule is to charge as much as the customer is willing to pay. Then there are hundreds of ways to justify the price by calling accounting and agreeing on what costs are being covered by the price. For all you know the price difference is to pay for the private jets that the sales reps are taking to go around Europe..! (*) In addition, it is likely that the target for these prices are companies, not individuals. Said companies can get the VAT off in some countries, and may benefit from other tax cuts (e.g. passing this as an expense) which makes them much more willing to foot the bill than your average developer guy/gal, who has to pay from his/her net income and pay VAT on top of it. So... I don't believe it's going to change unless some of the subsidiaries see drops in profits. It's going to take some massive boycotting or perhaps push from an open-source competitor product for things to change... both unlikely. (*) ...or more likely, it must be paying for a lot of local country specialists, lawyers, etc. which are unique to each country, thus driving the overhead costs through the roof. On 4/24/07, Zárate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, Sorry to bring this up again, but Danielle Libine has put up a really interesting pdf about the subject. He gathers lots of data with really clear graphics about prices and countries. Then a couple of questions for Adobe: http://web.mac.com/libine/iWeb/Site/Article.html I think we really should keep the pressure up and force Adobe to at least give a public, official explanation. Hopefully a review of the prices. Cheers, Juan On 4/7/07, Søren Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes it is totally f*ckd up - production bundle upgrade: us: $1199 / €897 eu/spain: $2630 / €1967 So guess which side of the atlantic i am buying my upgrade ;-) Cheers, B) Søren On Mar 28, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Joe Wheeler wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- Juan Delgado - Zárate http://zarate.tv http://dandolachapa.com http://loqueyosede.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Yes it is totally f*ckd up - production bundle upgrade: us: $1199 / €897 eu/spain: $2630 / €1967 So guess which side of the atlantic i am buying my upgrade ;-) Cheers, B) Søren On Mar 28, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Joe Wheeler wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
If I buy an upgrade from a US store, for delivery to the UK FOR (Acrobat+Photoshop+Studio 8) TO Creative Suite 3 Web Premium Will the upgrade USA licence keys work with my UK licence keys? J ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
it makes sense it would be more expensive over there since products and goods coming from the US usually take longer to get over there, if they want it at the same time as us they have to pay more ! =D No... that does not make sense. Have you looked at UPS shipping costs? Shipping is hardly the reason. I'd go with 'because they can'. Because it's the _only_ reason that makes any sense. Dave - Head Developer www.blurredistinction.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
I'd like to close this swindle thingIf you have a company with some money available to buy the programs in the us and travel here in order to have it...then is not a crime to buy something in other country. I'm ecuadorian (south american working in the US), when I had enough money to had a vacation in the US, so I did it and there is no law against to buy a computer, a program or anything here without using the regional stores. And In my country I was using the regional support. So you can do it, and also enjoy the travel, this is my advice. Let me tell you something your UK, German, Or Russian visa or mastercard are good enough to buy what you want here in compusa, apple store, circuit city or any store(well depends on how much you have in the card limit). regards Gustavo Duenas On Mar 31, 2007, at 7:34 AM, Cedric Muller wrote: Ok. Let's stop now X-Files thingies ... this is all in all TOP OT ... I mean, you, the honest client must be held responsible for your region's bad behaviours ??? oh, you must live in a fascist country, under a dictator to accept such practices or did you forgot to walk outside your frontier ?? .. bah anyway, let's stop this swindle thing .,... always the same, US companies don't know there is a world out there ... they are just acting like US companies: arrogant, and plainly dumb ... one more time baby, one more tme Apple is doing it, macromedia was doing it ... they are all doing it even that dumb george bush is doing it ...charge the slaves! I am just waiting for the Empire to drop ... and it will we will have honest prices around the world WHEN flowers will be singing Marylin's Manson 'Sweet Dreams' (eurythmics) The great capitalistic swindle and all its cowardness it did implement in people's minds if Adobe was honest,... if it was ... but hey ADBE.O and that's all here I come: F**k shareholders deeply Of the top of my head a possible reason is that higher prices respond to the amount of illegal software used in Europe in comparison to the US... I could be wrong, but the system seems far more controlled over there, and there are less companies using pirated copies... now, I don't see how this measures could improve the situation over here, but the logic might be to get some compensation, plus pressuring legal companies to act against ilegal companies in order to expect lower exchange rates... still, I don't think it's a particulary smart measure... specially when developing budgets are usually much lower in Europe than in the US... Cheers... John Dowdell escribió: Mike Mountain wrote: For those prices it would literally be cheaper to fly out to the US to buy it. Adobe has FUBAR'd these prices - we demand an explanation - but who from? For what it's worth, I had been pushing before launch for better information about the reasons for regional pricing disparities, but I did not succeed at doing so. I suspect there are reasonable explanations, because Macromedia, Adobe, and most other software houses show similar differences across national boundaries, but I don't yet know the authoritative reasons myself, sorry. (My suspicion is that it's due to decisionmaking being both at the central and at the regional level... I think each region is responsible for its own prices and these are shaped, but not dictated, by the main office, so there's no single owner of pricing worldwide... that's just my best current guess of why I haven't been able to gain traction in getting this documented, though.) What I'm doing now is trying to collect similar reactions for my partners, to show that this is indeed a frequently-asked question, and one that deserves a definitive explanation on the Adobe site. (The FlashCoders web archive is not viewable to non- subscribers, so I'm snipping threads to give a flavor of the whole.) So... my apologies for the confusion. I think it's definitely a legitimate question, and one that I'm working to get addressed. tx, jd ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Ok. Let's stop now X-Files thingies ... this is all in all TOP OT ... I mean, you, the honest client must be held responsible for your region's bad behaviours ??? oh, you must live in a fascist country, under a dictator to accept such practices or did you forgot to walk outside your frontier ?? .. bah anyway, let's stop this swindle thing .,... always the same, US companies don't know there is a world out there ... they are just acting like US companies: arrogant, and plainly dumb ... one more time baby, one more tme Apple is doing it, macromedia was doing it ... they are all doing it even that dumb george bush is doing it ...charge the slaves! I am just waiting for the Empire to drop ... and it will we will have honest prices around the world WHEN flowers will be singing Marylin's Manson 'Sweet Dreams' (eurythmics) The great capitalistic swindle and all its cowardness it did implement in people's minds if Adobe was honest,... if it was ... but hey ADBE.O and that's all here I come: F**k shareholders deeply Of the top of my head a possible reason is that higher prices respond to the amount of illegal software used in Europe in comparison to the US... I could be wrong, but the system seems far more controlled over there, and there are less companies using pirated copies... now, I don't see how this measures could improve the situation over here, but the logic might be to get some compensation, plus pressuring legal companies to act against ilegal companies in order to expect lower exchange rates... still, I don't think it's a particulary smart measure... specially when developing budgets are usually much lower in Europe than in the US... Cheers... John Dowdell escribió: Mike Mountain wrote: For those prices it would literally be cheaper to fly out to the US to buy it. Adobe has FUBAR'd these prices - we demand an explanation - but who from? For what it's worth, I had been pushing before launch for better information about the reasons for regional pricing disparities, but I did not succeed at doing so. I suspect there are reasonable explanations, because Macromedia, Adobe, and most other software houses show similar differences across national boundaries, but I don't yet know the authoritative reasons myself, sorry. (My suspicion is that it's due to decisionmaking being both at the central and at the regional level... I think each region is responsible for its own prices and these are shaped, but not dictated, by the main office, so there's no single owner of pricing worldwide... that's just my best current guess of why I haven't been able to gain traction in getting this documented, though.) What I'm doing now is trying to collect similar reactions for my partners, to show that this is indeed a frequently-asked question, and one that deserves a definitive explanation on the Adobe site. (The FlashCoders web archive is not viewable to non-subscribers, so I'm snipping threads to give a flavor of the whole.) So... my apologies for the confusion. I think it's definitely a legitimate question, and one that I'm working to get addressed. tx, jd ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
I suspect there are reasonable explanations, because Macromedia, Adobe, and most other software houses show similar differences across national boundaries, but I don't yet know the authoritative reasons myself, sorry. reasonable explanations: the Screw! ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Being in London for such a long time I'm used to over priced everything here. I lived in Tokyo as well in the past and I always thought (and told) Tokyo is the most expensive city in the world, so let's see. Adobe Creative Suite CS3 Design Premium Adobe Store US: $1,799 Adobe Store UK: £1,655.58 ($3,259 - 181% of US price) Adobe Store Japan: Not listed Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Adobe Store US: $199 Adobe Store UK: £146.88 ($289 - 145% of US price) Adobe Store Japan: ¥23,100 ($196 - 98% of US price) Apple Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger Apple Store US: $129 Apple Store UK: £89 ($175 - 136% of US price) Apple Store Japan: ¥14,800 ($126 - 98% of US price) You see the trend here. The localization from American English to British English is so hard that Adobe has to put nearly double price for some products. Translating into Japanese is such a child's play, Adobe can only justify selling the products for even lower than the US. It's a shame that Adobe Japan does not list any CS3 products yet, especially the localization to Japan is such an easy task, shouldn't take any time at all. Kenneth Kawamoto http://www.materiaprima.co.uk Why are European products more expensive than UE or American products? The price of software in EMEA reflects both the additional expense to develop and test Adobes applications for local markets and operating systems, as well as for the delivery of complimentary Warranty support. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Actually, I want to buy CS3 in US-ENGLISH (no localization expense) but I STILL do get the same overexpensive ache ... Being in London for such a long time I'm used to over priced everything here. I lived in Tokyo as well in the past and I always thought (and told) Tokyo is the most expensive city in the world, so let's see. Adobe Creative Suite CS3 Design Premium Adobe Store US: $1,799 Adobe Store UK: £1,655.58 ($3,259 - 181% of US price) Adobe Store Japan: Not listed Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Adobe Store US: $199 Adobe Store UK: £146.88 ($289 - 145% of US price) Adobe Store Japan: ¥23,100 ($196 - 98% of US price) Apple Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger Apple Store US: $129 Apple Store UK: £89 ($175 - 136% of US price) Apple Store Japan: ¥14,800 ($126 - 98% of US price) You see the trend here. The localization from American English to British English is so hard that Adobe has to put nearly double price for some products. Translating into Japanese is such a child's play, Adobe can only justify selling the products for even lower than the US. It's a shame that Adobe Japan does not list any CS3 products yet, especially the localization to Japan is such an easy task, shouldn't take any time at all. Kenneth Kawamoto http://www.materiaprima.co.uk Why are European products more expensive than UE or American products? The price of software in EMEA reflects both the additional expense to develop and test Adobes applications for local markets and operating systems, as well as for the delivery of complimentary Warranty support. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Changing color to colour across the whole CS3 suite is probably very expensive. ;) -Adam On 3/31/07, Cedric Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I want to buy CS3 in US-ENGLISH (no localization expense) but I STILL do get the same overexpensive ache ... ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Yes, but that's a Grey area.. ;-) - Original Message - From: Adam Pasztory [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle Changing color to colour across the whole CS3 suite is probably very expensive. ;) -Adam On 3/31/07, Cedric Muller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I want to buy CS3 in US-ENGLISH (no localization expense) but I STILL do get the same overexpensive ache ... ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
On Mar 29, 2007, at 6:36 PM, Hairy Dog Digital wrote: I'm surprised that any of the CS3 bundles are available via download. I would think they are only available via physical shipment due to sheer size. Back to the subject at hand, I know that UK and EU pricing typically runs higher on software, but to the extent that it is cheaper to fly to the US, take a mini-holiday, purchase your software, then fly home seems ludicrous. If you're purchasing the Master Collection, the price deviation from USD is somewhere around $1500 (or more). An outright purchase of the Master Collection in US is close the _upgrade_ pricing, depending on what you are upgrading from, for those in the UK after you apply a VAT of 17.5% (if that's applicable?). I think anyone on this list in the UK could fly to the US round trip and crash with a US Flashcoder buddy - and still have some money left over for a hundred pints or so to help you forget how much you spent. You certainly would be getting more for your money that way. cheers, jon ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
John, Thanks for the response, much appreciated. For the record, I entirely agree with Mike, and think his download-only option is a good one. Cheers, Ian On 3/29/07, Mike Mountain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I suggest you have the equivalent of an electronic region/version - where you can only get support and upgrades electronically and the price tracks the US equivalent with appropriate country specific tax adjustments applied. It's just plain dumb of someone in Adobe to think that your loyal European customers wouldn't do the maths. And if the UK sales office is responsible then we want names, I wonder if any missing revenue from US sales to European customers being diverted would make them pay attention - if so we're all chartering a jet and want them to wave us goodbye at the airport. Yes - my goat has been well and truly got. M ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
It does feel like a rip-off. I would like to upgrade to Creative Suite 3 Web Premium, but the price puts me off. Being cheaper in the U.S. makes it even worse. For me, it costs £534.62 + 17.5% VAT + delivery +annoyance. Adobe should at least absorb the 17.5% Value Added Tax. If the new version of Flash had a proper debugger, it might help. John U.K. - Original Message - From: Jon Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle On Mar 29, 2007, at 6:36 PM, Hairy Dog Digital wrote: I'm surprised that any of the CS3 bundles are available via download. I would think they are only available via physical shipment due to sheer size. Back to the subject at hand, I know that UK and EU pricing typically runs higher on software, but to the extent that it is cheaper to fly to the US, take a mini-holiday, purchase your software, then fly home seems ludicrous. If you're purchasing the Master Collection, the price deviation from USD is somewhere around $1500 (or more). An outright purchase of the Master Collection in US is close the _upgrade_ pricing, depending on what you are upgrading from, for those in the UK after you apply a VAT of 17.5% (if that's applicable?). I think anyone on this list in the UK could fly to the US round trip and crash with a US Flashcoder buddy - and still have some money left over for a hundred pints or so to help you forget how much you spent. You certainly would be getting more for your money that way. cheers, jon ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Mike Mountain wrote: Thanks for the response John, please don't take this personally, - but I suspect the legitimate reason is because we can ... and if that's the case, then I'd like to see those decisionmakers defend it in open debate. But it's difficult for me to see intentional discrimination as the root cause... doesn't match up with what I see of people here. The DNA is towards global participation, so I suspect there are real constraints in the way of flat pricing. I've still got the action item to keep pressing for public explanations about why software companies show such similar disparities across regions. Such a mystery does no-one any good. The ZDNet/CNET articles today likely caught org-wide attention, so I've got some more ammo this week ;-) cu, jd -- John Dowdell . Adobe Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd Aggregator: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Do you guys not understand supply and demand? At least we're not faced with a functional price offering with exponential dropoff leaving the consumers without fat pockets with the only option to wait a year for the price to be reasonable. I'd imagine they could charge 5 times as much for the first month of release, and there would still be clients who would buy it instead of waiting for the second month where it would be twice as much, or the third month for it to be the price its at now. In fact, if you think about the country gap in that respect, it makes sense it would be more expensive over there since products and goods coming from the US usually take longer to get over there, if they want it at the same time as us they have to pay more ! =D Seth -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Dowdell Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 1:04 PM To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle Mike Mountain wrote: Thanks for the response John, please don't take this personally, - but I suspect the legitimate reason is because we can ... and if that's the case, then I'd like to see those decisionmakers defend it in open debate. But it's difficult for me to see intentional discrimination as the root cause... doesn't match up with what I see of people here. The DNA is towards global participation, so I suspect there are real constraints in the way of flat pricing. I've still got the action item to keep pressing for public explanations about why software companies show such similar disparities across regions. Such a mystery does no-one any good. The ZDNet/CNET articles today likely caught org-wide attention, so I've got some more ammo this week ;-) cu, jd -- John Dowdell . Adobe Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd Aggregator: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
On 3/30/07, Seth Caldwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In fact, if you think about the country gap in that respect, it makes sense it would be more expensive over there since products and goods coming from the US usually take longer to get over there, if they want it at the same time as us they have to pay more ! =D We live in a world where software is a download away. 'It takes longer for the goods to get there' is no longer an excuse. Ian ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Hi John, Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us and for pushing for public explanations. I contacted Dutch Adobe support and this is the explanation they gave: --- Thankyou for your email to Adobe Cs. Why are European products more expensive than UE or American products? The price of software in EMEA reflects both the additional expense to develop and test Adobes applications for local markets and operating systems, as well as for the delivery of complimentary Warranty support. Adobes complimentary Warranty support covers product installation and defect issues for the life of the current version of Adobes desktop applications. Although Adobe Europe and Adobe US are different parts of the same global company European Marketing strategies and pricing are not directly related on those used for the US. The prices are not simply converted from the dollar pricing used for US products, therefore, the pricing used for each country in the EMEA region may vary. Should you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact us. --- My question: what is so specific about our local market that requires those (huge?) additional expenses for tests and development to such extend that prices have to almost double or if I understand correct even are 2.5 times as high for UK customers then US customers. By the way you would think that with the whole emphasis on local support that the support person would answer in my local language (Dutch) but no, the answer was in English and for further info I could phone to the Adobe office in the UK or in Ireland. My point if I have to pay for local support I want local support if not I would rather contact the American office and pay the much lower price just like out American friends do. In fact I even don't need support in my language but just to make the point... ;-) I hope you, actual the people in charge of this ridicules pricing policy, would offer us an option to order from a US store. Preferable downloadable (upgrade/upsell) studio versions but others might be more interested in boxed versions. I don't mind if that means that we must contact the US support desk for assistance ;-) John if you could make that happen I will pronounce you in advance: men of the year and maybe I'll even consider to nominate you for the Nobel Peace Prize ;-) Thanks for listening. cu, Benny -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens John Dowdell Verzonden: vrijdag 30 maart 2007 22:04 Aan: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Onderwerp: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle jd wrote: Thanks for the response John, please don't take this personally, - but I suspect the legitimate reason is because we can ... and if that's the case, then I'd like to see those decisionmakers defend it in open debate. But it's difficult for me to see intentional discrimination as the root cause... doesn't match up with what I see of people here. The DNA is towards global participation, so I suspect there are real constraints in the way of flat pricing. I've still got the action item to keep pressing for public explanations about why software companies show such similar disparities across regions. Such a mystery does no-one any good. The ZDNet/CNET articles today likely caught org-wide attention, so I've got some more ammo this week ;-) -- John Dowdell . Adobe Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd Aggregator: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com __ NOD32 2158 (20070330) Informatie __ Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. http://www.nod32.nl ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Do you guys not understand supply and demand? Don't the rules of supply and demand change when the product does not really take any time to produce and the cost of production is minimal when compared to stamping out discs and printing boxes? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
... and if that's the case, then I'd like to see those decisionmakers defend it in open debate. But it's difficult for me to see intentional discrimination as the root cause... doesn't match up with what I see of people here. The DNA is towards global participation, so I suspect there are real constraints in the way of flat pricing. I've still got the action item to keep pressing for public explanations about why software companies show such similar disparities across regions. Such a mystery does no-one any good. The ZDNet/CNET articles today likely caught org-wide attention, so I've got some more ammo this week ;-) This is not exactly a mystery. Software - like any other product - is priced the way it is to maximize profits. International price discrimination, like any other price discrimination, exists because vendors believe that they can identify distinct market segments, and charge the price that will maximize their profits within that segment. In addition, vendors may have different business costs in different countries; even with electronic distribution, there are costs involved in having local sales and support offices, currency exchange, legal compliance costs, etc, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html However, this is not the appropriate place for this discussion, I think. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! This email has been processed by SmoothZap - www.smoothwall.net ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
The point here is that the markets supply of products to accomplish what these products can accomplish is relatively low. Its true that the software can be duplicated at no cost, so supply in the count of goods function you're initially introduced to map to cost of goods is not what I'm implying here. If the market's supply of these products was numerous, the demand for it would be relatively low. However new features not found in any other offering make the market's supply of such products relatively low, thus the demand is very high. In fact, I bet there are companies that would pay Adobe to _raise_ the prices, just to give their competition further barriers to entry. Seth -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Glen Pike Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 2:16 PM To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle Do you guys not understand supply and demand? Don't the rules of supply and demand change when the product does not really take any time to produce and the cost of production is minimal when compared to stamping out discs and printing boxes? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Of the top of my head a possible reason is that higher prices respond to the amount of illegal software used in Europe in comparison to the US... I could be wrong, but the system seems far more controlled over there, and there are less companies using pirated copies... now, I don't see how this measures could improve the situation over here, but the logic might be to get some compensation, plus pressuring legal companies to act against ilegal companies in order to expect lower exchange rates... still, I don't think it's a particulary smart measure... specially when developing budgets are usually much lower in Europe than in the US... Cheers... John Dowdell escribió: Mike Mountain wrote: For those prices it would literally be cheaper to fly out to the US to buy it. Adobe has FUBAR'd these prices - we demand an explanation - but who from? For what it's worth, I had been pushing before launch for better information about the reasons for regional pricing disparities, but I did not succeed at doing so. I suspect there are reasonable explanations, because Macromedia, Adobe, and most other software houses show similar differences across national boundaries, but I don't yet know the authoritative reasons myself, sorry. (My suspicion is that it's due to decisionmaking being both at the central and at the regional level... I think each region is responsible for its own prices and these are shaped, but not dictated, by the main office, so there's no single owner of pricing worldwide... that's just my best current guess of why I haven't been able to gain traction in getting this documented, though.) What I'm doing now is trying to collect similar reactions for my partners, to show that this is indeed a frequently-asked question, and one that deserves a definitive explanation on the Adobe site. (The FlashCoders web archive is not viewable to non-subscribers, so I'm snipping threads to give a flavor of the whole.) So... my apologies for the confusion. I think it's definitely a legitimate question, and one that I'm working to get addressed. tx, jd ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Unfortunately you can't update a European licence with a US update so I'd have to transfer my existing licences to the US. I'm actually moving to the states in a few months so I'll just have to wait for a bit. However there is one interesting thing I found out. Apparently Adobe will be offering a FREE update to CS3 for anyone that buys CS2 from now until CS3 is available... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gustavo Duenas Sent: 29 March 2007 02:46 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle Hi Joe, do you have friends in the US? someone with an address, you just buy the programs in the US with your credit card and then your friends can send this to you using dhl , fedex or ups, sounds logic? I used to do that several times buying programs when I was living in Ecuador, South America..or you can just go on vacation and shopping Spree!!! heheheh! Regards Gustavo Duenas When I was living in the On Mar 28, 2007, at 10:27 AM, Joe Wheeler wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
does this apply if you bought studio 8 as well in the last 2 weeks :s On 3/29/07, Joe Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately you can't update a European licence with a US update so I'd have to transfer my existing licences to the US. I'm actually moving to the states in a few months so I'll just have to wait for a bit. However there is one interesting thing I found out. Apparently Adobe will be offering a FREE update to CS3 for anyone that buys CS2 from now until CS3 is available... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gustavo Duenas Sent: 29 March 2007 02:46 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle Hi Joe, do you have friends in the US? someone with an address, you just buy the programs in the US with your credit card and then your friends can send this to you using dhl , fedex or ups, sounds logic? I used to do that several times buying programs when I was living in Ecuador, South America..or you can just go on vacation and shopping Spree!!! heheheh! Regards Gustavo Duenas When I was living in the On Mar 28, 2007, at 10:27 AM, Joe Wheeler wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- j:pn http://www.lennel.org ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
In the days of electronic distribution this kind of business practice stinks. Why do they do it, because they know they can get away with it - can we afford to boycott the release in europe? They know in most cases we can't. It's more than taking liberties, it's daylight robbery. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
I'm not sure - I think it only counts to products bought since the CS3 announcement. Give your local Adobe online store a ring and see what they say. J -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Johannes Nel Sent: 29 March 2007 09:11 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle does this apply if you bought studio 8 as well in the last 2 weeks :s On 3/29/07, Joe Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately you can't update a European licence with a US update so I'd have to transfer my existing licences to the US. I'm actually moving to the states in a few months so I'll just have to wait for a bit. However there is one interesting thing I found out. Apparently Adobe will be offering a FREE update to CS3 for anyone that buys CS2 from now until CS3 is available... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gustavo Duenas Sent: 29 March 2007 02:46 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle Hi Joe, do you have friends in the US? someone with an address, you just buy the programs in the US with your credit card and then your friends can send this to you using dhl , fedex or ups, sounds logic? I used to do that several times buying programs when I was living in Ecuador, South America..or you can just go on vacation and shopping Spree!!! heheheh! Regards Gustavo Duenas When I was living in the On Mar 28, 2007, at 10:27 AM, Joe Wheeler wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- j:pn http://www.lennel.org ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
It's a ridiculous situation that, sadly, seems to be true of a lot of software. But it's particularly bad in this case. Here's some full list prices, using today's exchange rate. CS3 Design Premium UK: £1655.58 (=$3256.69)US: $1799.00Markup: 181% CS3 Design Standard UK: £1051.62 (=$2068.64)US: $1199.00 Markup: 172% CS3 Master Collection UK: £2313.58 (=$4551.04)US: $2499.00 Markup: 182% CS3 Production Premium UK: £1655.58 (=$3256.69)US: $1699.00Markup: 191% CS3 Web Premium UK: £1404.12 (=$2762.04)US: $1599.00 Markup: 172% CS3 Web Standard UK: £828.38 (=$1629.51)US: $999.00 Markup: 163% Flash CS3 Pro UK: £574.58 (=$1130.25)US: $699.00 Markup: 161% That's one hell of a shipping cost. *wonders who to write to at Adobe* Ian On 3/28/07, Joe Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Its put a massive downer on what should have been an exciting week. Im moving into video editing etc so was considering the Production premium CS3 suite, but a 200% markup is criminal. And as Mike said, for a digital download, wtf indeed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: 29 March 2007 09:57 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle It's a ridiculous situation that, sadly, seems to be true of a lot of software. But it's particularly bad in this case. Here's some full list prices, using today's exchange rate. CS3 Design Premium UK: £1655.58 (=$3256.69)US: $1799.00Markup: 181% CS3 Design Standard UK: £1051.62 (=$2068.64)US: $1199.00 Markup: 172% CS3 Master Collection UK: £2313.58 (=$4551.04)US: $2499.00 Markup: 182% CS3 Production Premium UK: £1655.58 (=$3256.69)US: $1699.00Markup: 191% CS3 Web Premium UK: £1404.12 (=$2762.04)US: $1599.00 Markup: 172% CS3 Web Standard UK: £828.38 (=$1629.51)US: $999.00 Markup: 163% Flash CS3 Pro UK: £574.58 (=$1130.25)US: $699.00 Markup: 161% That's one hell of a shipping cost. *wonders who to write to at Adobe* Ian On 3/28/07, Joe Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Some cunning American could buy a load of the boxed product and legitimately put them on ebay with a markup, sell them to the European market and both parties would be better off There's no law against selling second hand software overseas is there? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Probably its a brick in the wall that protects 'their' creative industry? NC On 3/29/07, Mike Mountain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those prices it would literally be cheaper to fly out to the US to buy it. Adobe has FUBAR'd these prices - we demand an explanation - but who from? On 3/29/07, Ian Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a ridiculous situation that, sadly, seems to be true of a lot of software. But it's particularly bad in this case. Here's some full list prices, using today's exchange rate. CS3 Design Premium UK: £1655.58 (=$3256.69)US: $1799.00Markup: 181% CS3 Design Standard UK: £1051.62 (=$2068.64)US: $1199.00 Markup: 172% CS3 Master Collection UK: £2313.58 (=$4551.04)US: $2499.00 Markup: 182% CS3 Production Premium UK: £1655.58 (=$3256.69)US: $1699.00Markup: 191% CS3 Web Premium UK: £1404.12 (=$2762.04)US: $1599.00 Markup: 172% CS3 Web Standard UK: £828.38 (=$1629.51)US: $999.00 Markup: 163% Flash CS3 Pro UK: £574.58 (=$1130.25)US: $699.00 Markup: 161% That's one hell of a shipping cost. *wonders who to write to at Adobe* Ian On 3/28/07, Joe Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- Nik C ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
I've 'phoned the Adobe's UK office today and am told that someone from the customer services management team will get back to me today to explain it. So let's see what happens. :-) Me, I'm not holding my breath. Ian On 3/29/07, Mike Mountain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the days of electronic distribution this kind of business practice stinks. Why do they do it, because they know they can get away with it - can we afford to boycott the release in europe? They know in most cases we can't. It's more than taking liberties, it's daylight robbery. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
For those prices it would literally be cheaper to fly out to the US to buy it. Adobe has FUBAR'd these prices - we demand an explanation - but who from? On 3/29/07, Ian Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a ridiculous situation that, sadly, seems to be true of a lot of software. But it's particularly bad in this case. Here's some full list prices, using today's exchange rate. CS3 Design Premium UK: £1655.58 (=$3256.69)US: $1799.00Markup: 181% CS3 Design Standard UK: £1051.62 (=$2068.64)US: $1199.00 Markup: 172% CS3 Master Collection UK: £2313.58 (=$4551.04)US: $2499.00 Markup: 182% CS3 Production Premium UK: £1655.58 (=$3256.69)US: $1699.00Markup: 191% CS3 Web Premium UK: £1404.12 (=$2762.04)US: $1599.00 Markup: 172% CS3 Web Standard UK: £828.38 (=$1629.51)US: $999.00 Markup: 163% Flash CS3 Pro UK: £574.58 (=$1130.25)US: $699.00 Markup: 161% That's one hell of a shipping cost. *wonders who to write to at Adobe* Ian On 3/28/07, Joe Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
happy UK!!! for the german versions: CS3 Master Collection UK: £2313.58 (=$4551.04)US: $2499.00 Austria: € 3.598 (=4.798,90 USD) CS3 Design Premium UK: £1655.58 (=$3256.69)US: $1799.00 Austria: € 2.638 (=3.517,24 USD) etc... But that is adobe! where are the macromedia times gone?? nice greetings! ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Well - a telephone call from Adobe Europe (in the Netherlands) today. A lovely Russian lady whose name I didn't get. She tried to tell me the price difference was down to VAT rules - until I pointed out that VAT is 17.5% over here, not ~80%. As an aside, she pointed out that we in the UK pay slightly more for our downloads because we pay Republic of Ireland VAT rates for downloads (21%) as opposed to UK VAT on box product (17.5%). I'd noticed that the UK store downloads were pricier than the box product the other day, and couldn't understand it - that explains it. Doesn't have much bearing on the US/UK gap, tho'. Then she tried to be terribly reasonable, telling me that I could, if I wished, buy the software from the States, but couldn't then have any European support or European upgrades (hardly a problem). I straightfowardly put it to her that it was simply about commercial interests and that Adobe charged the UK prices that the UK would pay. Which she agreed with. Which means the only explanation is - because they can get away with it. Ian On 3/29/07, Ian Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've 'phoned the Adobe's UK office today and am told that someone from the customer services management team will get back to me today to explain it. So let's see what happens. :-) Me, I'm not holding my breath. Ian ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
So how would one legally go about buying Adobe software in the US (by legally I mean not from ebay)? And r.e. the lack of european support or upgrade, wouldn't you still be elligible for a US upgrade if you bought the software from there? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: 29 March 2007 15:39 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle Well - a telephone call from Adobe Europe (in the Netherlands) today. A lovely Russian lady whose name I didn't get. She tried to tell me the price difference was down to VAT rules - until I pointed out that VAT is 17.5% over here, not ~80%. As an aside, she pointed out that we in the UK pay slightly more for our downloads because we pay Republic of Ireland VAT rates for downloads (21%) as opposed to UK VAT on box product (17.5%). I'd noticed that the UK store downloads were pricier than the box product the other day, and couldn't understand it - that explains it. Doesn't have much bearing on the US/UK gap, tho'. Then she tried to be terribly reasonable, telling me that I could, if I wished, buy the software from the States, but couldn't then have any European support or European upgrades (hardly a problem). I straightfowardly put it to her that it was simply about commercial interests and that Adobe charged the UK prices that the UK would pay. Which she agreed with. Which means the only explanation is - because they can get away with it. Ian On 3/29/07, Ian Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've 'phoned the Adobe's UK office today and am told that someone from the customer services management team will get back to me today to explain it. So let's see what happens. :-) Me, I'm not holding my breath. Ian ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
With WPF hitting the market this sounds like a really bad idea by Adobe. Seems like it would be cheaper to fly a student out with their personal educational copy. Not that I suggesting it (Adobe, please don't sue me). Nick Weekes wrote: So how would one legally go about buying Adobe software in the US (by legally I mean not from ebay)? And r.e. the lack of european support or upgrade, wouldn't you still be elligible for a US upgrade if you bought the software from there? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: 29 March 2007 15:39 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle Well - a telephone call from Adobe Europe (in the Netherlands) today. A lovely Russian lady whose name I didn't get. She tried to tell me the price difference was down to VAT rules - until I pointed out that VAT is 17.5% over here, not ~80%. As an aside, she pointed out that we in the UK pay slightly more for our downloads because we pay Republic of Ireland VAT rates for downloads (21%) as opposed to UK VAT on box product (17.5%). I'd noticed that the UK store downloads were pricier than the box product the other day, and couldn't understand it - that explains it. Doesn't have much bearing on the US/UK gap, tho'. Then she tried to be terribly reasonable, telling me that I could, if I wished, buy the software from the States, but couldn't then have any European support or European upgrades (hardly a problem). I straightfowardly put it to her that it was simply about commercial interests and that Adobe charged the UK prices that the UK would pay. Which she agreed with. Which means the only explanation is - because they can get away with it. Ian On 3/29/07, Ian Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've 'phoned the Adobe's UK office today and am told that someone from the customer services management team will get back to me today to explain it. So let's see what happens. :-) Me, I'm not holding my breath. Ian ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Ok - so it's actually cheaper to fly to the States, stay in a hotel for a few days and order your US copy (bearing in mind the exchange rate) than buying a copy in the UK. Joy! I'll recommend it to my boss :) Andy Jones Learning Consultant Reuters Messaging: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (t) +44 207542 6011 | (m) +44 7795 953895 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: 29 March 2007 16:38 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle With WPF hitting the market this sounds like a really bad idea by Adobe. Seems like it would be cheaper to fly a student out with their personal educational copy. Not that I suggesting it (Adobe, please don't sue me). Nick Weekes wrote: So how would one legally go about buying Adobe software in the US (by legally I mean not from ebay)? And r.e. the lack of european support or upgrade, wouldn't you still be elligible for a US upgrade if you bought the software from there? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: 29 March 2007 15:39 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle Well - a telephone call from Adobe Europe (in the Netherlands) today. A lovely Russian lady whose name I didn't get. She tried to tell me the price difference was down to VAT rules - until I pointed out that VAT is 17.5% over here, not ~80%. As an aside, she pointed out that we in the UK pay slightly more for our downloads because we pay Republic of Ireland VAT rates for downloads (21%) as opposed to UK VAT on box product (17.5%). I'd noticed that the UK store downloads were pricier than the box product the other day, and couldn't understand it - that explains it. Doesn't have much bearing on the US/UK gap, tho'. Then she tried to be terribly reasonable, telling me that I could, if I wished, buy the software from the States, but couldn't then have any European support or European upgrades (hardly a problem). I straightfowardly put it to her that it was simply about commercial interests and that Adobe charged the UK prices that the UK would pay. Which she agreed with. Which means the only explanation is - because they can get away with it. Ian On 3/29/07, Ian Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've 'phoned the Adobe's UK office today and am told that someone from the customer services management team will get back to me today to explain it. So let's see what happens. :-) Me, I'm not holding my breath. Ian ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com This email was sent to you by Reuters, the global news and information company. To find out more about Reuters visit www.about.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Limited. Reuters Limited is part of the Reuters Group of companies, of which Reuters Group PLC is the ultimate parent company. Reuters Group PLC - Registered office address: The Reuters Building, South Colonnade, Canary Wharf, London E14 5EP, United Kingdom Registered No: 3296375 Registered in England and Wales ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
On 3/29/07, Nick Weekes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So how would one legally go about buying Adobe software in the US (by legally I mean not from ebay)? Well, off the top of my head... Get someone who lives there to buy it from a shop or online. Fly there and download it to your machine. Fly there and buy it from a shop. I'm guessing there are many other ways, but it's been a long day (currently fighting with Vista). And r.e. the lack of european support or upgrade, wouldn't you still be elligible for a US upgrade if you bought the software from there? I believe, from what she was saying, that you would be eligible, yes. Ian ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Andy Jones wrote: Ok - so it's actually cheaper to fly to the States, stay in a hotel for a few days and order your US copy (bearing in mind the exchange rate) than buying a copy in the UK. Joy! I'll recommend it to my boss :) You could as well fly to Brazil, stay at the beach for three weeks, and buy a copy on the streets for US$ 2.50. Kidding, of course! Am I? More seriously, and not that i even remotely understand this policy, but this price gap has always been there (see comments): http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd/archives/2004/08/mm_store_firefo.cfm Cheers, Claus. -- claus wahlers côdeazur brasil http://codeazur.com.br/ http://wahlers.com.br/claus/blog/ ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Well, off the top of my head... Get someone who lives there to buy it from a shop or online. Fly there and download it to your machine. Fly there and buy it from a shop. My personal opinion is it's a vast evil greed-based conspiracy between Adobe (because they hate Europeans and want to take ever dollar they can from them), the U.S. and European-based airlines (because they need every dollar they can get right now) the Dharma initiative (why not). Can't think of any other possible reason. Oh, and The Great CS3 Swindle would make a fantastic book. Kinda like an updated version of The Great Train Robbery with more laptops and fewer coffins. Jason Merrill Bank of America GTO Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Mike Mountain wrote: For those prices it would literally be cheaper to fly out to the US to buy it. Adobe has FUBAR'd these prices - we demand an explanation - but who from? For what it's worth, I had been pushing before launch for better information about the reasons for regional pricing disparities, but I did not succeed at doing so. I suspect there are reasonable explanations, because Macromedia, Adobe, and most other software houses show similar differences across national boundaries, but I don't yet know the authoritative reasons myself, sorry. (My suspicion is that it's due to decisionmaking being both at the central and at the regional level... I think each region is responsible for its own prices and these are shaped, but not dictated, by the main office, so there's no single owner of pricing worldwide... that's just my best current guess of why I haven't been able to gain traction in getting this documented, though.) What I'm doing now is trying to collect similar reactions for my partners, to show that this is indeed a frequently-asked question, and one that deserves a definitive explanation on the Adobe site. (The FlashCoders web archive is not viewable to non-subscribers, so I'm snipping threads to give a flavor of the whole.) So... my apologies for the confusion. I think it's definitely a legitimate question, and one that I'm working to get addressed. tx, jd -- John Dowdell . Adobe Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd Aggregator: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
cmon guys pay a vacation to the US, buy the adobe suite (whatever you like) write down in the registration the addrs of your hotel and connect to the internet, and Doesn't matter where you are, you'd have online support , because there is no way to trace your connection (or at least that is what the FBI said in the x-files, joking), I bought my programs in the us, then used a cargo to brought it to Ecuador and I used and downloaded the upgrades from there.I don't know if I'm saying a lot of nonsenses but that looks perfectly right for me. My primary language is the spanish, but I've always use my products set up to english language( by the way I bet I can't understand the commands or how to use the programs in my own language-the spanish). regards Gustavo Duenas On Mar 29, 2007, at 10:56 AM, Nick Weekes wrote: So how would one legally go about buying Adobe software in the US (by legally I mean not from ebay)? And r.e. the lack of european support or upgrade, wouldn't you still be elligible for a US upgrade if you bought the software from there? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: 29 March 2007 15:39 To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle Well - a telephone call from Adobe Europe (in the Netherlands) today. A lovely Russian lady whose name I didn't get. She tried to tell me the price difference was down to VAT rules - until I pointed out that VAT is 17.5% over here, not ~80%. As an aside, she pointed out that we in the UK pay slightly more for our downloads because we pay Republic of Ireland VAT rates for downloads (21%) as opposed to UK VAT on box product (17.5%). I'd noticed that the UK store downloads were pricier than the box product the other day, and couldn't understand it - that explains it. Doesn't have much bearing on the US/UK gap, tho'. Then she tried to be terribly reasonable, telling me that I could, if I wished, buy the software from the States, but couldn't then have any European support or European upgrades (hardly a problem). I straightfowardly put it to her that it was simply about commercial interests and that Adobe charged the UK prices that the UK would pay. Which she agreed with. Which means the only explanation is - because they can get away with it. Ian On 3/29/07, Ian Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've 'phoned the Adobe's UK office today and am told that someone from the customer services management team will get back to me today to explain it. So let's see what happens. :-) Me, I'm not holding my breath. Ian ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http:// www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
(My suspicion is that it's due to decisionmaking being both at the central and at the regional level... I think each region is responsible for its own prices and these are shaped, but not dictated, by the main office, so there's no single owner of pricing worldwide... that's just my best current guess of why I haven't been able to gain traction in getting this documented, though.) Being as many of the people buying these products are above average intelligence, they are soon going to work out that it is cheaper to buy in USD or whatever currency suits them. As many bank accounts now only make small charges on transactions made in foreign currencies, maybe regional offices are going to start taking a hit on their sales if people shop elsewhere. Maybe they will then start fighting a bit more for the consumer in their countries in order to sort out the price disparity. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
the problem is that when you use your uk credit card you cannot buy from the us store, so unless you have a us cc you be fooked. On 3/29/07, Glen Pike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (My suspicion is that it's due to decisionmaking being both at the central and at the regional level... I think each region is responsible for its own prices and these are shaped, but not dictated, by the main office, so there's no single owner of pricing worldwide... that's just my best current guess of why I haven't been able to gain traction in getting this documented, though.) Being as many of the people buying these products are above average intelligence, they are soon going to work out that it is cheaper to buy in USD or whatever currency suits them. As many bank accounts now only make small charges on transactions made in foreign currencies, maybe regional offices are going to start taking a hit on their sales if people shop elsewhere. Maybe they will then start fighting a bit more for the consumer in their countries in order to sort out the price disparity. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com -- j:pn http://www.lennel.org ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Then make a friend in the US and use do a money transfer to their account with PayPal or something similar Johannes Nel wrote: the problem is that when you use your uk credit card you cannot buy from the us store, so unless you have a us cc you be fooked. On 3/29/07, Glen Pike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (My suspicion is that it's due to decisionmaking being both at the central and at the regional level... I think each region is responsible for its own prices and these are shaped, but not dictated, by the main office, so there's no single owner of pricing worldwide... that's just my best current guess of why I haven't been able to gain traction in getting this documented, though.) Being as many of the people buying these products are above average intelligence, they are soon going to work out that it is cheaper to buy in USD or whatever currency suits them. As many bank accounts now only make small charges on transactions made in foreign currencies, maybe regional offices are going to start taking a hit on their sales if people shop elsewhere. Maybe they will then start fighting a bit more for the consumer in their countries in order to sort out the price disparity. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Thanks for the response John, please don't take this personally, - but I suspect the legitimate reason is because we can, I find it hard to believe that Adobe HQ doesn't have the necessary muscle to enforce a RRP bracket on its international sales offices. Anyhow - not all companies have this pricing structure. Take Valves STEAM online distribution channel. Last time I looked there was only one price. If I buy my product electronically then I can see no reason whatsoever for the whopping differences - a company can only take the 'P' out of it's customers for so long before we look elsewhere. I know for certain that the only product I can afford to upgrade at the moment is Flash Pro - I'll be using existing software or looking elsewhere for the rest. Then once I'm out of the upgrade cycle I won't feel any compulsion to keep upgrading and will feel less loyal to the product and much more likely to look at alternatives (ahem MICROSOFT ahem). Hell - if Flashdevelop gets the much touted Flexible WYSWIG Flex editor then I may not even upgrade Flash Pro.. May I suggest you have the equivalent of an electronic region/version - where you can only get support and upgrades electronically and the price tracks the US equivalent with appropriate country specific tax adjustments applied. It's just plain dumb of someone in Adobe to think that your loyal European customers wouldn't do the maths. And if the UK sales office is responsible then we want names, I wonder if any missing revenue from US sales to European customers being diverted would make them pay attention - if so we're all chartering a jet and want them to wave us goodbye at the airport. Yes - my goat has been well and truly got. M On 3/29/07, John Dowdell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Mountain wrote: For those prices it would literally be cheaper to fly out to the US to buy it. Adobe has FUBAR'd these prices - we demand an explanation - but who from? For what it's worth, I had been pushing before launch for better information about the reasons for regional pricing disparities, but I did not succeed at doing so. I suspect there are reasonable explanations, because Macromedia, Adobe, and most other software houses show similar differences across national boundaries, but I don't yet know the authoritative reasons myself, sorry. (My suspicion is that it's due to decisionmaking being both at the central and at the regional level... I think each region is responsible for its own prices and these are shaped, but not dictated, by the main office, so there's no single owner of pricing worldwide... that's just my best current guess of why I haven't been able to gain traction in getting this documented, though.) What I'm doing now is trying to collect similar reactions for my partners, to show that this is indeed a frequently-asked question, and one that deserves a definitive explanation on the Adobe site. (The FlashCoders web archive is not viewable to non-subscribers, so I'm snipping threads to give a flavor of the whole.) So... my apologies for the confusion. I think it's definitely a legitimate question, and one that I'm working to get addressed. tx, jd -- John Dowdell . Adobe Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd Aggregator: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
I'm surprised that any of the CS3 bundles are available via download. I would think they are only available via physical shipment due to sheer size. Back to the subject at hand, I know that UK and EU pricing typically runs higher on software, but to the extent that it is cheaper to fly to the US, take a mini-holiday, purchase your software, then fly home seems ludicrous. ...Rob ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] The great CS3 Swindle
Hi Joe, do you have friends in the US? someone with an address, you just buy the programs in the US with your credit card and then your friends can send this to you using dhl , fedex or ups, sounds logic? I used to do that several times buying programs when I was living in Ecuador, South America..or you can just go on vacation and shopping Spree!!! heheheh! Regards Gustavo Duenas When I was living in the On Mar 28, 2007, at 10:27 AM, Joe Wheeler wrote: Has anyone checked out the international prices on CS3? I can hardly believe how badly the UK is getting fleeced. I'm upgrading from CS1 Creative Suite and Studio 8 to CS3 Design Premium. In the US that's $599.00 dollars, but in the UK pounds it works out to £703.82. Take the exchange rate into account and UK customers are paying... 1,384.51 USD!!! Sales tax in the UK is 17.5% but the Adobe price hike is a whopping 231% - W T F? ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
