RE: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:flightgear-devel- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Berndt Sent: 20 June 2005 01:33 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: RE: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error? So, you think the UK is part of Europe, eh? We use the same convention as the US for ./, Vivian. Heh. :-) What's above the number 4 (not on the numeric keypad)? Is it a $ or a ? (not sure that will print correctly)? Jon Er ... $ I have no difficulty with that :-) No € (euro) though :)). V. attachment: winmail.dat___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Gerard Robin wrote: Le dimanche 19 juin 2005 à 23:27 +0200, Harald JOHNSEN a écrit : Now I don't understand. Flightgear uses a key, its the same for all contries whatever keyboard you use. What changes is the position of this letter on the keyboard, not the key because we are not using the raw keyscan. Yes it is ONLY a position of the letter on the keyboard (everything everywhere): [...] and so on .. :( Select different engines on a multi-engine, German layout: 1st engine Shift-1 2nd engine AltGr-q 3rd engine # which is located where US Americans are used to find the 'pipe' 4th engine Shift-4 BTW, to my knowledge the British have to type Shift-' for the second engine Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
On Sunday 19 June 2005 13:50, Jon Berndt wrote: This short reference: http://www.flightgear.org/Docs/FGShortRef.pdf shows the rudder control on the numeric keypad as being the 0 and , (comma) keys. There is no comma on the numeric keypad. This is confusing. IMNSHO the really confusing part is that the rudder control is actually 0 and Enter on the numeric keypad. It looks like the political issues unleashed in this thread have made you all blind ;-) -- Roy Vegard Ovesen ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Jon Berndt wrote: shows the rudder control on the numeric keypad as being the 0 and , (comma) keys. There is no comma on the numeric keypad. This is confusing. This was written by a German (Michael Basler) - we acually _have_ a comma as the decimal separator on the numeric keypad :-) I know, there are some more unresolved key binding inconsistencies but I don't think it makes sense adressing these in the manual or cheat sheet as long as there is no 'real' solution. People probably simply have to live with this. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
On Sunday 19 June 2005 13:50, Jon Berndt wrote: This short reference: http://www.flightgear.org/Docs/FGShortRef.pdf shows the rudder control on the numeric keypad as being the 0 and , (comma) keys. There is no comma on the numeric keypad. This is confusing. Then you have a keyboard with US layout. On my keyboard (German layout) there is a comma. So there's nothing wrong with it, it's just that every user has another kind of keyboard layout. ;) Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
So there's nothing wrong with it, it's just that every user has another kind of keyboard layout. ;) Best Regards, Oliver C. Aha! Well, yes, I understand, now, but for newbies from the U.S. it will be wrong. I'll modify the PDF and send it to Curt (or whoever maintains that doc). It needs to be clear. Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Le dimanche 19 juin 2005 20:03 +0200, Oliver C. a crit : On Sunday 19 June 2005 13:50, Jon Berndt wrote: This short reference: http://www.flightgear.org/Docs/FGShortRef.pdf shows the rudder control on the numeric keypad as being the 0 and , (comma) keys. There is no comma on the numeric keypad. This is confusing. Then you have a keyboard with US layout. On my keyboard (German layout) there is a comma. So there's nothing wrong with it, it's just that every user has another kind of keyboard layout. ;) Best Regards, Oliver C. That IS the big subject. The US definition keyboard is unusable for me . I had to customise it to my french one. May be FG 3.xxx or 4. will offert localised keyboard :-) -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Jon Berndt wrote: Aha! Well, yes, I understand, now, but for newbies from the U.S. it will be wrong. I'll modify the PDF and send it to Curt (or whoever maintains that doc). It needs to be clear. Aha ? In fact the notation in the cheat sheet _is_ correct and clear, why the hell do you want to break it ? It's just a matter of point of view an I assume there are _many_ FlightGear users out there that have a comma as a decimal separator - it's just that they probably don't live in the US. There are enough keybindings in FG that, so say it politely, need special explanation for most people that don't live in the US. Why do want to add more of them ? Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Aha ? In fact the notation in the cheat sheet _is_ correct and clear, why the hell do you want to break it ? It's just a matter of point of view an I assume there are _many_ FlightGear users out there that have a comma as a decimal separator - it's just that they probably don't live in the US. I think you are making a disingenuous assumption, here, on what I am saying. It IS correct and clear for*European*users, yes. All that I did to the PDF document was to add a _note_ in the appropriate section in brackets that says: [U.S. keyboards use . instead of ,] Are you opposed, in principle, to providing U.S. users with accurate information? I don't understand what's got you so hot about this. It's an international project. Let's be clear for everyone. Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Jon Berndt wrote: Aha ? In fact the notation in the cheat sheet _is_ correct and clear, why the hell do you want to break it ? It's just a matter of point of view an I assume there are _many_ FlightGear users out there that have a comma as a decimal separator - it's just that they probably don't live in the US. I think you are making a disingenuous assumption, here, on what I am saying. It IS correct and clear for*European*users, yes. All that I did to the PDF document was to add a _note_ in the appropriate section in brackets that says: [U.S. keyboards use . instead of ,] Are you opposed, in principle, to providing U.S. users with accurate information? I don't understand what's got you so hot about this. It's an international project. Let's be clear for everyone. Whatever we do, we need to do it to the TeX source or the changes will be lost next time we regenerate the pdf/html versions. Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Hi guys, Since you are updating the documentation, I think it might be a good idea to include the byte order lists of the various input/ouput protocols. It would help someone who would want to fly flightgear through some external application, and especially help those who are building external controllers... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
On Sunday 19 June 2005 22:20, Jon Berndt wrote: Aha ? In fact the notation in the cheat sheet _is_ correct and clear, why the hell do you want to break it ? It's just a matter of point of view an I assume there are _many_ FlightGear users out there that have a comma as a decimal separator - it's just that they probably don't live in the US. I think you are making a disingenuous assumption, here, on what I am saying. It IS correct and clear for*European*users, yes. All that I did to the PDF document was to add a _note_ in the appropriate section in brackets that says: [U.S. keyboards use . instead of ,] Are you opposed, in principle, to providing U.S. users with accurate information? I don't understand what's got you so hot about this. It's an international project. Let's be clear for everyone. Jon Maybe it sounded in your first letter like that you may be one of those Americans who allways try to make the USA the center of the world. We Europeans and people from other countrys don't like that it is offending, so i can understand Martin Spott's reaction. But now, that you made clear that this wasn't your intention and that you don't have this US center view of seeing the world i think it was just a misunderstanding between both sides. :) I like your proposion of adding a _note_ in the appropriate section in brackets that says: [U.S. keyboards use . instead of ,]. This is a very nice solution. We just need to make clear that Flightgear stays as international as possible. Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Jon Berndt wrote: I think you are making a disingenuous assumption, here, on what I am saying. It IS correct and clear for*European*users, yes. All that I did to the PDF document was to add a _note_ in the appropriate section in brackets that says: [U.S. keyboards use . instead of ,] Now I don't understand. Flightgear uses a key, its the same for all contries whatever keyboard you use. What changes is the position of this letter on the keyboard, not the key because we are not using the raw keyscan. Harald. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Hear hear. - Original Message - From: Oliver C. To: FlightGear developers discussions Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] "Short Reference" Document error? On Sunday 19 June 2005 22:20, Jon Berndt wrote: Aha ? In fact the notation in the cheat sheet _is_ correct and clear, why the hell do you want to break it ? It's just a matter of point of view an I assume there are _many_ FlightGear users out there that have a comma as a decimal separator - it's just that they probably don't live in the US. I think you are making a disingenuous assumption, here, on what I am saying. It IS correct and clear for*European*users, yes. All that I did to the PDF document was to add a _note_ in the appropriate section in brackets that says: "[U.S. keyboards use "." instead of ","]" Are you opposed, in principle, to providing U.S. users with accurate information? I don't understand what's got you so hot about this. It's an international project. Let's be clear for everyone. JonMaybe it sounded in your first letter like that you may be one of those Americans who allways try to make the USA the center of the world.We Europeans and people from other countrys don't like that it is offending, so i can understand Martin Spott's reaction.But now, that you made clear that this wasn't your intention and that you don't have this US center view of seeing the world i think it was just a misunderstanding between both sides. :)I like your proposion of adding a _note_ in the appropriate section in brackets that says: "[U.S. keyboards use "." instead of ","]".This is a very nice solution.We just need to make clear that Flightgear stays as international as possible.Best Regards,Oliver C.___Flightgear-devel mailing listFlightgear-devel@flightgear.orghttp://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Jon Berndt wrote: Are you opposed, in principle, to providing U.S. users with accurate information? I don't understand what's got you so hot about this. It's an international project. Let's be clear for everyone. This complies entirely with my intention. Please excuse me for missing the point - from reading your comment I had the impression you simply changed the comma to a dot in the PDF. Please send me a copy of your PDF and I'll change the TeX source accordingly. I'm currently thinking of some sort of a small FlightGear internationalization project to avoid such confusion. I'll comment of this the next day Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Le dimanche 19 juin 2005 23:27 +0200, Harald JOHNSEN a crit : Jon Berndt wrote: I think you are making a disingenuous assumption, here, on what I am saying. It IS correct and clear for*European*users, yes. All that I did to the PDF document was to add a _note_ in the appropriate section in brackets that says: [U.S. keyboards use . instead of ,] Now I don't understand. Flightgear uses a key, its the same for all contries whatever keyboard you use. What changes is the position of this letter on the keyboard, not the key because we are not using the raw keyscan. Harald. Yes it is ONLY a position of the letter on the keyboard (everything everywhere): try to imagine on a french Keyboard we get for left brake --coma lower case OK right brake --dot upper case BEUH flap down close-bracket+alt which is on the top right flap up open-bracket+alt which is on the top left-middle-left and so on .. :( -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
So, you think the UK is part of Europe, eh? We use the same convention as the US for ./, Vivian. Heh. :-) What's above the number 4 (not on the numeric keypad)? Is it a $ or a ? (not sure that will print correctly)? Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
This complies entirely with my intention. Please excuse me for missing the point - from reading your comment I had the impression you simply changed the comma to a dot in the PDF. Please send me a copy of your PDF and I'll change the TeX source accordingly. Thanks - will do. I'm currently thinking of some sort of a small FlightGear internationalization project to avoid such confusion. I'll comment of this the next day Sounds like a great idea. Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 19:33:19 -0500, Jon wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So, you think the UK is part of Europe, eh? We use the same convention as the US for ./, Vivian. Heh. :-) What's above the number 4 (not on the numeric keypad)? Is it a $ or a ? (not sure that will print correctly)? ..a horn mine: tic-tic-tic ( ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
Oliver C. wrote: Maybe it sounded in your first letter like that you may be one of those Americans who allways try to make the USA the center of the world. It should be pointed out that those Americans live almost exclusively in your television set. Real people, even republicans, are significantly more complicated than that. I assure you that there is no sinister American plot to remap your keyboards. Seriously folks, give Jon a break. When keyboard mappings become a political issue, perspective has been lost. I think someone needs a nap. :) Andy ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
