Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hi,
 Yes Gerard,
 the clouds Heiko showed us were much more
 squared in size compared to
 your and my pictures.
 Georg
 
I could fix that yesterday- there was an issue with updating the textures. I 
had still the one from the first patch.

But of course it looks still like Gerad's one. That's the thing that makes the 
cloud still a bit ugly!

Cheers
HHS


  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hi,


 Here are pics of FS2004 clouds, along with the paper/video
 describing how it was done:
 http://www.ofb.net/~niniane/clouds/

This is based originally on Mark Harris Code, and was enhanced quite good.  

But it isn't really uptodate. 
Have a look here:

Windmarks Nimble 3D clouds
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=pLfHDul5XGw

or similar the Simul Weather SDK:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=C9CfhyajVjYfeature=related

or that: RandomChaos Generic XNA - Volumetric Clouds (only MS!)
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=uMvjai9ggzIfeature=related
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=khntLU3v_-sfeature=related
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=XlG2nwv9QAAfeature=related


But we use OpenGL, so we should better take a look on X-Plane:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=5VRWHoXMKA0
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=Buk8_bOb5T4

And this shows pretty well how they work: ;-)
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=YkaylXZqx-E

So we can see, Stuart isn't much far away.  It is just this ugly borders and 
another thing I found yesterday: the fog has an big influenece in the 
visibility- it seems like a z-order thing, then increasing the fog, and the 
clouds disapear and the blue sky comes:
www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-scree-cloud1.jpg
www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-cloud.jpg

And so how I found out that we have acess to the clouds via the property 
browser- so wen can change the setting in runtime maybe with nasal etc...!

Great!

Regards
HHS






  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sound problems

2008-10-28 Thread Tim Moore
Syd wrote:
 Hello ,
 After a recent update (within the week), I'm getting some really choppy 
 sounds in my b1900d and dhc-2 . I know there were changes to the sound 
 system , but don't know if that's the problem.
 With the b1900d , I get a lot of messages like this:
 
 CullVisitor::apply(Geode) detected NaN,
 depth=nan,center=(0,0,0),
 matrix={
 -0.484295 etc etc 0
 etc etc etc 0
 etc etc etc 0
 nan nan nan nan
If you were seeing this error at night, I've checked in a fix.

Tim

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread gerard robin
On mardi 28 octobre 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Here are pics of FS2004 clouds, along with the paper/video describing how
 it was done: http://www.ofb.net/~niniane/clouds/



 - Original Message 
 From: Matthew Tippett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: FlightGear developers discussions
 flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008
 4:40:07 PM
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

 For comparison, can anyone show some screenshots of MS FSX or X-Plane
 clouds?

 Regards... Matthew

 On 10/27/08, gerard robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On mardi 28 octobre 2008, Georg Vollnhals wrote:
  gerard robin schrieb:
   I did not notice any  difference with my graphic card.
   (7800 GS )
 
  Yes Gerard,
  the clouds Heiko showed us were much more squared in size compared to
  your and my pictures.
  Georg
 
  Looking at these snapshot again:
  yes you are right with squared clouds  which can be seen on clouds
  Heiko, however looking at
   http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Clouds-im1.jpg
  we can notice squared clouds, the main diff is that the aircraft  is in
  the clouds.
 
 
 
 
  --
  Gérard
  http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/
 
  J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé.
  Voltaire

Any comparisons  versus the others paid systems   is  not a bad idea ( the 
more we know about  the enemy the more we are powerful :) ),
 however, in our  home we have a nice reference with 3D clouds , and i am sure 
that if Plib had not been died  these Clouds would have been improved again 
and again.
Won't it be better to refer to our 'old 3D clouds' , and to extent the 
research  according to what we can see in reality everydays.

That work which has yet been done with CVS, is probably the most difficult ( 
using OSG ) thanks to Stuart.

In anycase,  for a demo, one knows probably these links

http://www.markmark.net/cloudsim/
http://www.markmark.net/clouds/
http://www.markmark.net/SkyWorks/


Cheers

BTW: Skyworks is said to be Free Licence


-- 
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http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/

J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. 
Voltaire


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread John Wojnaroski
Matthew Tippett wrote:

For comparison, can anyone show some screenshots of MS FSX or X-Plane clouds?

Regards... Matthew
  

FWIW here are a few pics of a 737 sim we just delivered to NASA/HCSL at 
Ames.  We'll be using FlightGear on a 64bit machine with OSG and a high 
end graphics system on five large screen monitors.

http://www/lfstech.com/img/hcs_one.jpg
http://www/lfstech.com/img/hcs_two.jpg
http://www/lfstech.com/img/hcs_three.jpg

We might just resurrect and extend the old Mark Harris code from a few 
years back in '09; time and priorities permitting.

http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg

Regards
JW




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hello,


  however, in our  home we have a nice reference with 3D
 clouds , and i am sure 
 that if Plib had not been died  these Clouds would have
 been improved again 
 and again.

Really? Never noticed that there was someone working on it

 Won't it be better to refer to our 'old 3D
 clouds' , and to extent the 
 research  according to what we can see in reality
 everydays.

I think we have to create a special plib version of FGFS for you! 
The last developement in Plib last for about 10 Years, with OSG we take over 
plib in maybe 1/3 or a half of this time! And in many things we took already 
over: forest, perfomance ( with the datapager mp is much smoother, AI 
interactive Traffic too...)

And:
Stuart can tell this better, but so much as I know he tried it and failed. But 
the solution isn't far away from that- it is even better! You have now access 
to it via properties! 
 
 That work which has yet been done with CVS, is probably the
 most difficult ( 
 using OSG ) thanks to Stuart.
 
 In anycase,  for a demo, one knows probably these links
 
 http://www.markmark.net/cloudsim/
 http://www.markmark.net/clouds/
 http://www.markmark.net/SkyWorks/
 
And again for those who forgot, or didn't know this yet:

Mark Harris Code above was the start for all 3D-clouds systems we know! MSFS, 
X-Plane and others- it's all based on this code, on this principe by him!!

And: for a short time the original code was implemented in FGFS but the 
perfomance was low! Then Harald Johnson came, used the same principe but more 
based on plib. They were nice, but not customizable, only one cloud type 
possible, and changing texture not really possible. (I tried this)
But it was a start, nethertheless! 

With Stuarts clouds we have the ability to have all cloud types we want to 
have! Of course there are some bugs- it is a start, and a lot of things can be 
added!
 
Look here: 
http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=263
http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=264
http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=260
http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=261

Doesn't look this more realistic than the old clouds? And don't we want to make 
it right, it make it realistic as much as we can?

Cheers
HHS



  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hello,

 FWIW here are a few pics of a 737 sim we just delivered to
 NASA/HCSL at 
 Ames.  We'll be using FlightGear on a 64bit machine
 with OSG and a high 
 end graphics system on five large screen monitors.
 
 http://www/lfstech.com/img/hcs_one.jpg
 http://www/lfstech.com/img/hcs_two.jpg
 http://www/lfstech.com/img/hcs_three.jpg

No pics visible...

 We might just resurrect and extend the old Mark Harris code
 from a few 
 years back in '09; time and priorities permitting.
 
 http://www.lfstech.com/img/sfo_clouds.jpg
 
 Regards
 JW

When ever someone come with WE might... WE could do...- then I ask who will be 
this person ??

But:
And again for those who forgot, or didn't know this yet:

Mark Harris Code above was the start for all 3D-clouds systems we know! MSFS, 
X-Plane and others- it's all based on this code, on this principe by him!!

And: for a short time the original code was implemented in FGFS but the 
perfomance was low! Then Harald Johnson came, used the same principe but more 
based on plib. They were nice, but not customizable, only one cloud type 
possible, and changing texture not really possible. (I tried this)
But it was a start, nethertheless! 

With Stuarts clouds we have the ability to have all cloud types we want to 
have! Of course there are some bugs- it is a start, and a lot of things can be 
added!

Look here: 
http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=263
http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=264
http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=260
http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=261

Doesn't look this more realistic than the old clouds or even Mark Harris code? 
And don't we want to make it right, it make it realistic as much as we can?

In one point I wll agree- we can look how some things he got managed like the 
borderlines and alpha blending. But that's all

Cheers
HHS




  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Ralf Gerlich
Hi Heiko!

Heiko Schulz wrote:
 Look here: 
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=263
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=264
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=260
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=261
 
 Doesn't look this more realistic than the old clouds? And don't we want to 
 make it right, it make it realistic as much as we can?

Erm, these are FlightGear pictures? Seems like I have missed a lot. The
ambient occlusion effect is obvious, but when did we get reflections
(see the windshield in the last picture)?

Cheers,
Ralf

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread AJ MacLeod
On Tuesday 28 October 2008 15:53:47 Ralf Gerlich wrote:

 Erm, these are FlightGear pictures? Seems like I have missed a lot. The
 ambient occlusion effect is obvious, but when did we get reflections
 (see the windshield in the last picture)?

Only a few years ago ;-)  It's another application of the chrome shader - 
they're not true reflections of the outside (or inside) world, but very 
effective indeed.

Cheers,

AJ


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread gerard robin
On mardi 28 octobre 2008, Heiko Schulz wrote:
 Hello,

   however, in our  home we have a nice reference with 3D
  clouds , and i am sure
  that if Plib had not been died  these Clouds would have
  been improved again
  and again.

 Really? Never noticed that there was someone working on it

  Won't it be better to refer to our 'old 3D
  clouds' , and to extent the
  research  according to what we can see in reality
  everydays.

 I think we have to create a special plib version of FGFS for you!

Don't make me wrong :)
I was only reffering to the 3D Clouds   which are working with FG 1.0.0
that was the opportunity to  say,  it  was a great improvement, and 
fortunately, since  that know how is not lost, we can refer to it ( mainly 
for the visual result ),  to me , the others competitors  out of FG were not 
able to do better, i can be supporter :)

I don't ask for a new FG PLIB version, i only have in mind the history of FG, 
and why PLib has been replaced by OSG = PLib is died OSG is on progress.
Nothing else

 The last developement in Plib last for about 10 Years, with OSG we take
 over plib in maybe 1/3 or a half of this time! And in many things we took
 already over: forest, perfomance ( with the datapager mp is much smoother,
 AI interactive Traffic too...)

 And:
 Stuart can tell this better, but so much as I know he tried it and failed.
 But the solution isn't far away from that- it is even better! You have now
 access to it via properties!

  That work which has yet been done with CVS, is probably the
  most difficult (
  using OSG ) thanks to Stuart.
 
  In anycase,  for a demo, one knows probably these links
 
  http://www.markmark.net/cloudsim/
  http://www.markmark.net/clouds/
  http://www.markmark.net/SkyWorks/

 And again for those who forgot, or didn't know this yet:

 Mark Harris Code above was the start for all 3D-clouds systems we know!
 MSFS, X-Plane and others- it's all based on this code, on this principe by
 him!!

 And: for a short time the original code was implemented in FGFS but the
 perfomance was low! Then Harald Johnson came, used the same principe but
 more based on plib. They were nice, but not customizable, only one cloud
 type possible, and changing texture not really possible. (I tried this) But
 it was a start, nethertheless!

 With Stuarts clouds we have the ability to have all cloud types we want to
 have! Of course there are some bugs- it is a start, and a lot of things can
 be added!

 Look here:
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=263
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=264
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=260
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=261

 Doesn't look this more realistic than the old clouds? And don't we want to
 make it right, it make it realistic as much as we can?

 Cheers
 HHS





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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Martin Spott
Ralf Gerlich wrote:
 Heiko Schulz wrote:

  http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=263
[...]
 Erm, these are FlightGear pictures? Seems like I have missed a lot.

Nice, isn't it !?
BTW, do you still remember sitting in the aircraft shown on this
picture ? I'm pleased to see how close the model gets !

Cheers,
Martin.
P.S.: This is the original craft, sitting on the parking area at Ralf's
  home airport:
  http://foxtrot.mgras.net/bitmap/FGFS/DEEQA-EDNY.jpg
-- 
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Ralf Gerlich
Martin Spott wrote:
 BTW, do you still remember sitting in the aircraft shown on this
 picture ? I'm pleased to see how close the model gets !

And how does one get close to the model? Seems it isn't included in CVS.

Cheers,
Ralf

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hi,


 And how does one get close to the model? Seems it isn't
 included in CVS.
 
 Cheers,
 Ralf


Not with the livery yet, but you will find it here: 
http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13t=2175


  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Erik Hofman
Heiko Schulz wrote:

 With Stuarts clouds we have the ability to have all cloud types we want to 
 have! Of course there are some bugs- it is a start, and a lot of things can 
 be added!
  
 Look here: 
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=263
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=264
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=260
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/download/file.php?id=261
 
 Doesn't look this more realistic than the old clouds? And don't we want to 
 make it right, it make it realistic as much as we can?

This looks awesome .. already.

Erik

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[Flightgear-devel] c172p with terrain

2008-10-28 Thread gerard robin
Hello,
You know that the JSBSim FDM Aircrafts can make the difference between water 
and solid, the models only wants a little update which include a terrain.nas 
nasal script.
Every JSBSim models, that i have done which are in CVS  do have that feature.
For my home usage i had done a c172p which takes that feature, i just have 
updated it from the CVS version.
You may want it, it is available here, if wanted, it could be committed .

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/c172p.tar.gz

Cheers

-- 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Detlef Faber
Am Sonntag, den 26.10.2008, 07:51 + schrieb Stuart Buchanan:
 LeeE wrote: 
 
  On Saturday 25 October 2008, Stuart Buchanan wrote:
   Hi All,
  
   After a lot of effort, and help from Tim, I've finally got some
   3D shader-based clouds that work acceptably:
  
   http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/clouds.jpg
  
   A patch is available from here:
   http:/www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/clouds.tar.gz
  
   I've put quite a bit of effort into making the clouds as
   configurable as possible. The cloudlayers.xml file should allow
   any cloud-artists to create much prettier clouds than I have
   managed.
  
   There are quite a few bugs to be ironed out:-
   3) The alpha-blending isn't working properly
  
  This looks like a z-ordering issue.  Is z-ordering used in the cloud 
  routines?
 
 It is, but I'm not sure it is working on the level of individual sprites. The
 clouds are in the correct rendering bin (I think), but because of the use
 of shaders we currently just render them in an arbitary order within each
 cloud.
 
 I wonder if the problem is the CouldShaderGeometry::drawImplementation().
 Does that seem likely?
 
I think it is some kind of anti-aliasing problem. 
The artefacts follow the edges of the clouds, but don't fill the entire
texture area (which I would expect). 
I've exchanged the clouds with plain white Ellipses for testing, but the
blue edges remain.
 
I noticed that gimp adds such edges as anti-aliasing, so maybe this is
something similar?


 -Stuart
 
 
 
   
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Heiko Schulz
Right!
 
  Erm, these are FlightGear pictures? Seems like I have
 missed a lot. The
  ambient occlusion effect is obvious, but when did we
 get reflections
  (see the windshield in the last picture)?
 
 Only a few years ago ;-)  It's another application of
 the chrome shader - 
 they're not true reflections of the outside (or inside)
 world, but very 
 effective indeed.
 
 Cheers,
 
 AJ
And in this case we see, it has real fresnel effect!
Like here on the dor window of the EC135 which I am improving right now: 
http://fgfs.i-net.hu/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/10046/ec135.0.4.30.jpg

I wonder if we could alter the chrome shader so it is working on textured 
surfaces...

Cheers
HHS



  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-10-28 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Detlef Faber wrote :

 I noticed that gimp adds such edges as anti-aliasing, so maybe this
 is something similar?

The color will full alpha is not defined and could be black or another 
ugly color that show up after filtering. I had better result by setting 
the whole image to white and then using the eraser to set the alpha 
channel.

-Fred

-- 
Frédéric Bouvier
http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/  Photo gallery - album photo
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] c172p with terrain

2008-10-28 Thread Heiko Schulz

 Hello,
 You know that the JSBSim FDM Aircrafts can make the
 difference between water 
 and solid, the models only wants a little update which
 include a terrain.nas 
 nasal script.
 Every JSBSim models, that i have done which are in CVS  do
 have that feature.
 For my home usage i had done a c172p which takes that
 feature, i just have 
 updated it from the CVS version.
 You may want it, it is available here, if wanted, it could
 be committed .
 
 http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/c172p.tar.gz
 
 Cheers
 
 -- 
 Gérard

Sounds fine- would be great if this standart aircraft have this feature!

Cheers
HHS


  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] KSFO Boeing jumper

2008-10-28 Thread Martin Spott
I realize that people are complaining pretty quickly, but I have not
seen a single response which tells me wether my proposal (remove the
entire Scenery folder before CVS update) has led to succes or not,

Martin.
-- 
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] KSFO Boeing jumper

2008-10-28 Thread Heiko Schulz

 I realize that people are complaining pretty quickly, but I
 have not
 seen a single response which tells me wether my proposal
 (remove the
 entire Scenery folder before CVS update) has led to succes
 or not,
 
   Martin.
Solved the problem- KSFO is now looking real nice! 


  

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