[Flightgear-devel] Southwest Colorado Scenery - beta 3

2011-11-21 Thread J. Holden
http://www.stattosoftware.com/flightgear/Durango.zip

I have hope as the file size actually went down in this build, but perhaps 
something else went awry.

The only change is remapping Scrub to ShrubCover. Please let me know if 
this works.

In other news, this is 3 square degrees of scenery - I have now generated data 
for 24 of the 28 square degrees which make up the state of Colorado, so when 
this build works, watch out.

Yours
John

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Southwest Colorado Scenery - beta 3

2011-11-21 Thread Roland Häder
On Sun, 2011-11-20 at 23:03 -0800, J. Holden wrote:
 http://www.stattosoftware.com/flightgear/Durango.zip
 
 I have hope as the file size actually went down in this build, but
 perhaps something else went awry.
 
 The only change is remapping Scrub to ShrubCover. Please let me
 know if this works.
 
 In other news, this is 3 square degrees of scenery - I have now
 generated data for 24 of the 28 square degrees which make up the state
 of Colorado, so when this build works, watch out.
 
 Yours
 John
Hi John,

I have added it like this:
$ export FG_SCENERY=${FG_HOME}/statto/durango:${FG_SCENERY}

I have extracted the content of the ZIP file to
${FG_HOME}/statto/durango.

I think, there is still something wrong with the elevation data, because
just take a look:

http://flightgear.mxchange.org/pub/screenshots-master/fgfs-screen-031.png
http://flightgear.mxchange.org/pub/screenshots-master/fgfs-screen-032.png

Regards,
  Roland



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shader properties and dialog

2011-11-21 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On 20 Nov 2011, at 22:19, Vivian Meazza  wrote:
 I can’t see any reason for the dependency
 between 3d clouds and Material Shaders, 
 but Stuart might enlighten us. 

I don't think there is any particularly good reaon for the dependency, for 
either the trees or the clouds. I'm away at the moment but will look at 
uncoupling them later in the week. 

-Stuart

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shader properties and dialog

2011-11-21 Thread thorsten . i . renk
 In any case, the 3
 frame rate killers here are 3d Clouds, Trees, and AITraffic. Compared to
 these, the effect on frame rate by shaders is trivial.

Not for me. For me, the landmass effect at quality  3.5 (or 4? - I can't
check without computer) is the killer - with nothing else enabled, it
brings be down from 60 to 12 fps.

3dclouds can be adjusted as needed with the distance slider - having a
similar slider for trees rather than having to hack materials.xml would be
rather nice.

Landmass being so expensive, I can

1) have landmass off completely to run other shaders at high quality
setting (which is what I'm doing, so I always have to shift the snow line
as high as possible to not get artefects because some terrain doesn't show
snow now)

2) run all shaders at low quality, even those which run fine for me at
high quality settings

So I am very much in favour of a more detailed dialog which allows me to
select quality levels of shaders individually (with the convention that
quality zero is off).

* Thorsten


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shader properties and dialog

2011-11-21 Thread Martin Spott
Stuart Buchanan wrote:

 I don't think there is any particularly good reaon for the
 dependency, for either the trees or the clouds.  I'm away at the
 moment but will look at uncoupling them later in the week.

Don't forget to pick up your virtual bottle of fine Whisky (note the
spelling) afterwards,

Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shaders vs. frame rate;

2011-11-21 Thread HB-GRAL
Am 20.11.11 12:55, schrieb Anders Gidenstam:
 On Sun, 20 Nov 2011, ThorstenB wrote:

 Since some effects may be aircraft specific it might be useful to make the
 advanced dialog dynamic - one way would be to add a checkbox for each
 *-effect property found in /sim/rendering/shaders/ .

 Potentially scenery objects or MP aircraft might load some new effects
 (general or not) so the set of control properties might change (grow) at
 runtime.


 Cheers,

 Anders

Me, personally: +10 for this proposal here from Anders (saying more to 
myself, its not a vote I know).

Hm, getting such a useful menu, I hope this does not shift the impact 
from shaders to the GUI itself. (While designing such a menu in recent 
prehistoric GUI might look like a mission impossible, but I am sure we 
can get it.)

Another question is probably where this inherits-from-system goes at the 
moment. I.e. 737-300 733reflect.eff inherits from reflect effects, but 
sets most values again/new, while i.e. 747-400 744reflect.eff makes 
really use of inheriting, changing only the values that have to be 
changed. I dont know if this could affect performance too, the 737-300 
example ?

737-300 is a good example anyway, it inherits also from clouds. Does 
this mean switching off the cloud shaders switch contrails off too ?

nameEffects/733reflect/name
inherits-fromEffects/reflect/inherits-from

nameEffects/contrail/name
inherits-fromEffects/cloud/inherits-from

nameEffects/contrail2/name
inherits-fromEffects/cloud/inherits-from


Cheers, Yves

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[Flightgear-devel] How to draw customized stuff in the FG?

2011-11-21 Thread roger phil baker六
I have an application which use FlightGear as a displaying background.

meanwhile, the purpose of the application is to draw something around the
airport showcasing different effects influenced by natural environments.

Now, it is difficult for me to find the entry to start out to do the task
in hundreds of FG's folds and files.

  Does anyone have some tutorials to complete the mission?

At the very start, i just want to illustrate a cube or a sphere around some
tall buildings like towers around the airport.

Need your help
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shader properties and dialog

2011-11-21 Thread Gijs de Rooy

Thanks for the feedback/ideas so far! Hope to get some more throughout the week.

 Vivian wrote:
 This proposal doesn’t seem to address the problem namely that 3d clouds and 
 Random 
 Vegetation (trees)
require Material Shaders to be checked in the gui

It does, partly. As I said, the 3D clouds require a source edit (which I'm 
incapable of), so those
are still shader dependant, but the trees are uncoupled by my merge. Do note 
that there is 
bug #494 that makes it appear broken.

 Vivian wrote:
 the
 Shader options are not greyed out when the slider is at 0 (shaders 
OFF), thus it might 
 be inferred that shaders are active when they aren’t

Valid point. Will take care of that.

 Vivian wrote:
  the effect on frame rate by shaders is trivial

Allowing people to switch individual shaders on/off isn't just a matter of 
framerates. On my old
computer for example, I am unable to use the bumpmap shader. Most other shaders 
work fine
though. The current dialog forces me to disable all shaders, just because that 
single one doesn't 
work on my machine. Doesn't work as in breaks my aircraft in hunderts of 
pieces.

 Vivian wrote:
  It actually breaks the water shader effect 

In what way? As far as I can see it works fine here...

 Vivian wrote:
 The Snow-line slider has been moved to Global weather which implies that it 
 is:

 a. weather related

 b. only applicable to Global Weather.

 Neither is true – it is an arbitrary value, and it applies to all conditions. 
Right. The snow line is a rather strange thing. I agree that it's better of in 
the rendering dialog
for now (especially because it also works with local-weather). Will move it 
back.

 Stuart wrote:
 I
 don't think there is any particularly good reaon for the dependency, 
for either the trees 
 or the clouds. I'm away at the moment but will look
 at uncoupling them later in the week. 

See my comment to vivian about the trees. Would be nice if you could look at 
the clouds!

 Thorsten wrote:
 3dclouds can be adjusted as needed with the distance slider - having a 
 similar slider for trees 
 rather than having to hack materials.xml would be rather nice.

+1 and a density slider as well.

I'll see if I can update the merge-request today.

Cheers,
Gijs
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shader properties and dialog

2011-11-21 Thread James Turner

On 21 Nov 2011, at 13:01, Gijs de Rooy wrote:

 Thanks for the feedback/ideas so far! Hope to get some more throughout the 
 week.

Just to add my opinion (since this was partly my suggestion)

My key concern is that most people (even developers) don't care about 'material 
shaders', so long as things work, and they get sufficient FPS. They want a 
control to give them more FPS if things are slow!

Hence the desire to have the clouds and trees be de-coupled from the 'big 
global shader switch'

This raised the point, that the current checkboxes are also bad, because they 
combine several shaders. What I'd prefer, then, is a single quality slider 
(where 0 = 'no shaders'), and then an advanced / debug dialog, as already 
suggested by many other people, where I can toggle each individual shader by 
hand, when one causes problems - which does happen during shader development :)

(And it would be really good if this list included aircraft-specific shaders, 
because sometimes an MP aircraft loads, and I get render errors from OSG due to 
a bad shader)

Ideally (from a UX point of view), most users would only ever touch the slider 
- no additional parameters for snow line / tree density / etc. However, that's 
something that can be improved over time.

James

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shader properties and dialog

2011-11-21 Thread HB-GRAL
Hi Gijs

I would be very happy with a reflect checkbox/property once. Just to 
remember issue #295 (stalled, why?), this one is still broken with my 
ati on osx, osg trunk. It is not broken at all, but it still produce 
this renderbin draw errors filling my fgfs log to a huge file running 
flightgear. I started to avoid aircrafts using this shader, but now I am 
runnung into the same problems when I start in multiplayer mode with 
material shaders enabled.

Cheers, Yves

Am 21.11.11 14:01, schrieb Gijs de Rooy:

 Thanks for the feedback/ideas so far! Hope to get some more throughout the 
 week.

 Vivian wrote:
 This proposal doesn’t seem to address the problem namely that 3d clouds and 
 Random
 Vegetation (trees)
 require Material Shaders to be checked in the gui

 It does, partly. As I said, the 3D clouds require a source edit (which I'm 
 incapable of), so those
 are still shader dependant, but the trees are uncoupled by my merge. Do note 
 that there is
 bug #494 that makes it appear broken.

 Vivian wrote:
 the
   Shader options are not greyed out when the slider is at 0 (shaders
 OFF), thus it might
 be inferred that shaders are active when they aren’t

 Valid point. Will take care of that.

 Vivian wrote:
   the effect on frame rate by shaders is trivial

 Allowing people to switch individual shaders on/off isn't just a matter of 
 framerates. On my old
 computer for example, I am unable to use the bumpmap shader. Most other 
 shaders work fine
 though. The current dialog forces me to disable all shaders, just because 
 that single one doesn't
 work on my machine. Doesn't work as in breaks my aircraft in hunderts of 
 pieces.

 Vivian wrote:
   It actually breaks the water shader effect

 In what way? As far as I can see it works fine here...

 Vivian wrote:
 The Snow-line slider has been moved to Global weather which implies that it 
 is:

 a. weather related

 b. only applicable to Global Weather.

 Neither is true – it is an arbitrary value, and it applies to all conditions.
 Right. The snow line is a rather strange thing. I agree that it's better of 
 in the rendering dialog
 for now (especially because it also works with local-weather). Will move it 
 back.

 Stuart wrote:
 I
   don't think there is any particularly good reaon for the dependency,
 for either the trees
 or the clouds. I'm away at the moment but will look
   at uncoupling them later in the week.

 See my comment to vivian about the trees. Would be nice if you could look at 
 the clouds!

 Thorsten wrote:
 3dclouds can be adjusted as needed with the distance slider - having a 
 similar slider for trees
 rather than having to hack materials.xml would be rather nice.

 +1 and a density slider as well.

 I'll see if I can update the merge-request today.

 Cheers,
 Gijs
   



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing fgfs-construct crashes

2011-11-21 Thread Peter Sadrozinski
Hello Maxime,

I had also noticed more instances of the grey poly with clipper than GPC.

As an experiment, on Saturday, I spent several hours gutting fgfs-construct
down to the bones.  Although the grey polys didn't disappear completely, I
got Clipper producing as good results as GPC did.

The areas I still see problems are on tile boundaries, and osm roads.

I'm at work right now, but will download your tarball tonight to if it's
useful.  I have also been trying to reproduce the issue on the simplest
possible case.  This could save some time.

I think the grey polys are the default material.  I was going to verify
this tonight by assigning bogus materials to some well known land-class.

I think the solution to this whole issue is to bring fgfs-construct .btg
generation closer to how the genapt works - keeping the material
information around with each poly through the clipping process.  This is a
necessary requirement to be able to generate good texture coordinates for
linear data as well.  I think I will work on this in parallel with the
texture mapped roads / streams.

Pete

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Maxime Guillaud m...@mguillaud.net wrote:

 Hi Peter,

 Any news on the topic of the gray polygons ? I have been experimenting
 more with this,
 and I can confirm that it occurs only when clipper is enabled.

 If this can help, I have isolated a simple dataset (much simpler than last
 time) that
 triggers the bug. It is just one landmass polygon with a handful of
 vertices. This data
 is here: http://www.mguillaud.net/fg/2794338/2794338.tgz
 (I also include the fitted elevation, since I don't know if this data
 interacts with the
 bug). The bug occurs with fgfs-construct built from the code in papillon's
 tg850 branch
 (i.e. with clipper), with or without my attempts at adjusting the epsilon
 constants that
 can be found here and there in the code.

 I run fgfs-construct --work-dir=[..] --output-dir=[...] --tile-id=2794338
   SRTM-3
 Landmass , and the gray area is around -9.40025/51.5005 degrees.

 Any insight on this issue is appreciated...
 Maxime



 On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:52:56 -0500
 Peter Sadrozinski psadrozin...@gmail.com wrote:
  I have verified that the problem lies in using clipper.
  Using the same simple data with GPC works.  It appears clipper can
  sometimes produce clockwise winded polys.
 
  I'm working on a fix now.
 
  Pete
 
  On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Peter Sadrozinski
  psadrozin...@gmail.comwrote:
 
   Hi Martin,
  
   I've been reluctant to move to the official repository mostly because
 of
   very little understanding of GIT.
   I'm a bit more confident, now, so I don't see it as a big problem.
  
   I think most of the work we are doing (alternate clipping library, 850
   format) should be considered experimental, however.  I'm pretty sure we
   want to keep the main branch
   concentrated on fixing problems with detailed landclass.
  
   We seem to be breaking terragear pretty good as of late :)
  
   Maxime: I have an experiment for you to try - could you take the UFO
 under
   those grey sections of scenery, and look up at them?  I think the
 normals
   have swapped.
   Chris mentioned this happening with the skirt around the airport, and I
   hadn't seen it until a recent update.  Looks like something broke
 recently.
  
   Pete
  
  
  
  
   On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net
 wrote:
  
   Hi Maxime and others,
  
   Maxime Guillaud wrote:
  
You can find my code here [...]
  
   I'm just starting to recover from a couple of _really_ tight days
   (including a nice PostgreSQL conference PGConf.DE where I gave a
 talk
   about our geodata collection and in-database processing), therefore
 I'm
   not yet ready to provide comprehensive responses.  Anyhow there's one
   point I'd like to emphasize:
  
   I know it's really cool to maintain private source repositories  ;-)
  but for increasing the overall success of building FlightGear
   scenery I'd think it would be really beneficial to keep the various
   development efforts in close relation and sync.  Thus I'd invite
   everyone who's serious about improving the TerraGear toolchain to
   create a branch in the main repository in order to develop their
   specific features/changes there - not only but also because this would
   simplify tracking of the various changes.
  
   The former terragear-cs main repository at MapServer was already
 open
   to (almost) everybody who asked and now that it's moved over to
   Gitorious there's really no more excuse not to create branches inside
   the main repo  :-)
  
   Best regards,
  Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shaders vs. frame rate;

2011-11-21 Thread Gary Carvell
Spoke too soon. The trees look great, but the frame rate hit makes it
unusable (from 30-35 to 2-4) even with the other shaders disabled.

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Gary Carvell gary.carv...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thank you! I haven't had seen trees in FlightGear for ages (can't run
 with shaders). I didn't realize the trees were supported at all
 without shaders.

 Could that fix be applied automatically so the trees are visible
 whether shaders are on or off?

 Gary

 On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 5:52 AM, Gijs de Rooy gijsr...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Hi all!

 Martin wrote:

 Does anyone know how to have the random trees without all this  ?

 In Effects/trees.eff, comment out/remove line 23.
                 !--property/sim/rendering/shader-effects/property--

 If you would like to use the dialog to toggle the trees, you'll also need to
 edit
 gui/dialogs/rendering.xml and comment out line 200 to 202:
                 !--enable
                     property/sim/rendering/shader-effects/property
                 /enable--

 The Material Shaders options was meant (as far as I understand it) to
 disable
 all shader stuff with a single click. When the checkbox is checked, one an
 finetune
 what shaders need to be enabled, via the other checkboxes.

 The problem right now is that some of the shaders (eg. the reflection stuff
 and
 lightmap) only depend on that single Material Shaders property. It would
 be
 better if every single shader can be en/disabled via its own
 property/checkbox.

 But then we might end up with a pretty large rendering dialog...

 Cheers,
 Gijs

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shader properties and dialog

2011-11-21 Thread Anders Gidenstam
On Mon, 21 Nov 2011, Gijs de Rooy wrote:

 Aircraft shaders are supposed to appear on the list one day, but 
 Emillian is currently combining
 most (if not all) of the aircraft-shaders in one file. It's probably 
 better to wait on him before we do
 something about aircraft shaders.

Or we define the interface we want to have between the shaders and the 
dialog now so Emillian can use it for his combined shader and others for 
their own shaders (e.g. I don't think the very aircraft specific balloon 
envelope shader will be part of the combined aircraft shader :).

Someone recently mentioned that he'd like to be able to set the quality 
level of each shader, which makes quite good sense even if not all shaders 
have different quality levels - but for those level 0 is off and anything 
above would be on.

If we could presume that no shader will have more than, say,  5 quality 
levels a suitable interface could be that each shader creates a
/sim/rendering/shaders/foo-effect-quality
property.

Though, if we'd want to go fancy we could decide on (e.g.)
/sim/rendering/shaders/foo-effect/quality
/sim/rendering/shaders/foo-effect/max-quality  (assuming 0 is the minimum/off)
/sim/rendering/shaders/foo-effect/description  (useful for the dialog)

Making a dialog that dynamically displays a slider for all
/sim/rendering/shaders/foo-effect-quality
properties should not be a problem. E.g. the fuel and payload dialog 
displays a variable number of fuel tanks and payload items based on the 
properties present in the tree.


Cheers,

Anders
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Southwest Colorado Scenery - beta 3

2011-11-21 Thread J. Holden
Roland, thank you for the screenshots!

From your screenshots it looks to me as if the ShrubCover worked this time 
around as this was the cause of the null-elevation ocean areas in the first 
two builds.

The other elevation errors, do they still drop down to zero elevation as well? 
If so, then there is a problem with another land cover type. I fear it's an 
error with the SRTM data, though.

Cheers
John

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Southwest Colorado Scenery - beta 3

2011-11-21 Thread J. Holden
It looks like there are a number of holes in the SRTM-1 data. I don't know if 
GRASS can export HGT files using r.out.binary so I'm not sure if I can fill 
nulls, so I'll have to go back and re-generate the scenery using SRTM-3 data.

Cheers
John


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Southwest Colorado Scenery - beta 3

2011-11-21 Thread Gene Buckle
On Sun, 20 Nov 2011, J. Holden wrote:

 http://www.stattosoftware.com/flightgear/Durango.zip

 I have hope as the file size actually went down in this build, but perhaps 
 something else went awry.

 The only change is remapping Scrub to ShrubCover. Please let me know if 
 this works.

 In other news, this is 3 square degrees of scenery - I have now generated 
 data for 24 of the 28 square degrees which make up the state of Colorado, so 
 when this build works, watch out.

You'll need to get a car model set up so you can race down Pike's Peak. :)

g.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] various databases +- ground truth ;

2011-11-21 Thread Martin Spott
HB-GRAL wrote:

 Thank you very much for providing this service ! These days I am working 
 for a small publication for an organisation. Just found this image here 
 to have in the publication:
 http://maptest.fgx.ch/screens/ksfo.png

Oh my, what a crappy Scenery, all the airport boundaries are just
plain wrong and the field elevations are at minimum 10 feet off. 
Must have been a group of dumb jerks building this Scenery, without the
slightest idea about accuracy in aviation.  Fix it !  Now !!  ;-)

Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shader properties and dialog

2011-11-21 Thread HB-GRAL
Am 21.11.11 22:08, schrieb Arnt Karlsen:
 On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:55:34 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote in message
 4eca5856.6060...@sablonier.ch:

 Hi Gijs

 I would be very happy with a reflect checkbox/property once. Just
 to remember issue #295 (stalled, why?), this one is still broken with
 my ati on osx, osg trunk. It is not broken at all, but it still
 produce this renderbin draw errors filling my fgfs log to a huge file
 running flightgear. I started to avoid aircrafts using this shader,
 but now I am runnung into the same problems when I start in
 multiplayer mode with material shaders enabled.

 ..you have a commandline suggestion I can try to try reproduce this bug?


Hi Arnt

Starting i.e. b29 and Material Shaders enabled. We can also share the 
issue in my log, I start with c172p at KSFO 10L and you take the b29 at 10R.

Cheers, Yves

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[Flightgear-devel] Mpserver07 temporarily down

2011-11-21 Thread tom betka

Hi all,

In case someone may have noticed, mpserver07 is down. We lost one of our cable 
modems, and the ISP cannot get someone out here until tomorrow. 

When we went with a static IP address in 2010, the ISP gave us an additional 
modem unit. Now we have two running, and apparently one of them has failed and 
their static IP system will not work with just the one. But the online 
technician couldn't even access the main unit, so they have to send someone out 
tomorrow to attend to it. But since we have a business account (needed for 
the static IP), they will try to get here within 24 hours. So with any luck, it 
will be fixed tomorrow and the server will be back online.

I apologize for any inconvenience this might cause.

TB
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