Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
Just try it with Wine. I suppose it might work. I have bought it about two years ago in no-name shop for five bucks I believe. On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:08:13 +0100, Vincent Trouilliez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can see the game here (there is download): Dan http://gr.bolt.com/download/pc/sim/search_and_rescue2.htm Ah, thanks ! The graphics do look much better :o) But it's for windows !! :o( SearcAndRescue was Linux, so I stupidely assumeed that SAR2 was for Linux too ! Can't use it then :o((( That's just yet another old Dos/Windows game that I can't play. I guess I will have to get my hands dirty, and finally try and get some windows emulator to run on my machine... Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d -- Daniel Duris [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:52:30 +0100, Vincent Trouilliez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FlightGear uses the most realistic flightmodel it can and as such the helicopter has to be finely controlled in 3-axes at all times to remain in the hover / slow flight (As in real-life) Dave Martin About the FDM for the Heli, I would not mind having the opinion of a real Heli pilot (hopefully there is one on this list ?). The only reference point I have, is a few weeks flying the Bell 206 in Microsoft flight simulator, and that was 5 years ago, but in Fligh Gear, I feel that two things are wrong. I'm not yet a real helicopter pilot, but i managed to optain a scolarship to be trained to ATPL (H) Level, teoretical and practical. Wright now i'm o teoretical part until 1'st of May when the fling part begins. I also advanced a project to my aviation academy to permit finance us (the helicopter clas) to build a heli sim based on FG (mybe will be aproved by JAA), i'm waiting an answer from them (but the big problem is absence of autorotation in FG :(. ). From may, i can compare FG with realthing and help you with improving FDM for heli... also, if the academy will accept my project i will have a group of flight instructors with a vast experience in many helicopter types, as betta testers and critics for our simultaor. In any case, you can count on my help soon. ps i will fly EC 120 155. this is my academy: http://www.aviationacademy.ro/english/index.htm IS ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
Just try it with Wine. I suppose it might work. I have bought it about two years ago in no-name shop for five bucks I believe. I have never managed to get anything with Wine, but the 'notepad' ! :-/ I think I will think big, and try to set up WMware. Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
* Ioan Suciu -- Wednesday 26 January 2005 14:47: I also advanced a project to my aviation academy to permit finance us (the helicopter clas) to build a heli sim based on FG (mybe will be aproved by JAA), i'm waiting an answer from them (but the big problem is absence of autorotation in FG :(. ). I'm afraid that fgfs is not suitable for helicopter training yet. Autorotation isn't the only thing that's missing. Ground effect and a few other effects aren't implemented either. From may, i can compare FG with realthing and help you with improving FDM for heli... The FDM author knows pretty exactly what is missing[1]. He knows experienced real-world helicopter pilots, even bo105 pilots (one of which is AFAIK the head of all bo105 helicopters issues of the German army). What is missing now isn't so much good advice, but someone who knows enough physics and mathematics to implement it! (The original author hasn't had time since a great while.) A different matter is the 3D representation, the bo105 model. I'm not a helicopter (or other) pilot and I can still be taught a lot. (Just spare me comments about how the bo model should be textured etc. If anyone knows that, it's definitely me! :-) m. [1] http://baron.flightgear.org/pipermail/flightgear-devel/2003-October/021940.html ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I'm afraid that fgfs is not suitable for helicopter training yet. Autorotation isn't the only thing that's missing. Ground effect and a few other effects aren't implemented either. I knew that... but i was hoping... this is the reason for way i mentionated X-plane too in my project, The FDM author knows pretty exactly what is missing[1]. He knows experienced real-world helicopter pilots, even bo105 pilots (one of which is AFAIK the head of all bo105 helicopters issues of the German army). What is missing now isn't so much good advice, but someone who knows enough physics and mathematics to implement it! (The original author hasn't had time since a great while.) :( I was hpoing to be usefull, i don't have a good skill in writing code, i tryed once to imiplement a flight planner for FG, in Java, but it was to complicated for my skills. I would love to be able to imporve the Yasim's FDM but i'm not :( A different matter is the 3D representation, the bo105 model. I'm not a helicopter (or other) pilot and I can still be taught a lot. (Just spare me comments about how the bo model should be textured etc. If anyone knows that, it's definitely me! :-) About 3D representation af AC, i'm not demanding much... i'm flying from cokpit ;) IS ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
VMWare's graphics driver won't be able to use accelerated graphics. You can try, but I doubt you'll get more than a couple of frames a second. It would be a shame to spend money on VMWare just for that. OTOH if you have VMWare already it'd be a good thing to try and let us know how it works. I can suggest trying dual-boot instead. Installing Windows on VMWare will take just as much hard drive space on the VMWare virtual disk as it would on a dual-boot disk. The big disadvantage is that the dual-boot system won't have access to your linux filesystem when in Windows so you won't be able to share scenery. If you need help with managing partitions, I can offer some advice as I've successfully done partition resizing before. My biggest piece of advice, right off the bat, is BACK UP YOUR DATA before you try anything of the sort. If you want help with this feel free to message me off-list. Cheers, Josh -- Vincent Trouilliez wrote: Just try it with Wine. I suppose it might work. I have bought it about two years ago in no-name shop for five bucks I believe. I have never managed to get anything with Wine, but the 'notepad' ! :-/ I think I will think big, and try to set up WMware. Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d -- Josh Norm Audette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.gnurple.net ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
* Ioan Suciu -- Wednesday 26 January 2005 15:58: * * Melchior FRANZ: TWhat is missing now isn't so much good advice, but someone who knows enough physics and mathematics to implement it! :( I was hpoing to be usefull, I know, and I didn't want to discourage you. It's just that we have had lots of discussions/good advice/complaints, but this doesn't lead anywhere, as long as nobody really works on the FDM. Andy said he might, and JSBSim will certainly have helicopters, too. Maybe one of them will be finished one day. What we have now is half-done rotor support in YASim (yes, rotor support, not helicopter support!). A different matter is the 3D representation, the bo105 model. About 3D representation af AC, i'm not demanding much... i'm flying from cokpit ;) Yes, and guess who provides the cockpit? The 3D cockpit? m. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
VMWare's graphics driver won't be able to use accelerated graphics. You can try, but I doubt you'll get more than a couple of frames a second. Ah, bad news then ! :o( It would be a shame to spend money on VMWare just for that. I don't have single penny to spend on WMWare. I donwloaed the demo version from their site, and just happen to have a friend who could give me serial number to unlock it. OTOH if you have VMWare already it'd be a good thing to try and let us know how it works. I would have to install and configure it...this is my real problem : I do'nt have any skills for doing so ! And I don't have the patience spend days on the net to learn about it. I am just a norma user, not a Linux guru... I can suggest trying dual-boot instead. Installing Windows on VMWare will take just as much hard drive space on the VMWare virtual disk as it would on a dual-boot disk. The big disadvantage is that the dual-boot system won't have access to your linux filesystem when in Windows so you won't be able to share scenery. Yep, I keep a small partition with Windows XP. I have never actually started it though, I keep it there 'just in case'. But I don't want to boot windows just to start games (or anything really). I want to play within Linux, as I spend all my time on it, but only play games a few hours per year, occasionnaly, 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there... If you need help with managing partitions, I can offer some advice as I've successfully done partition resizing before. My biggest piece of advice, right off the bat, is BACK UP YOUR DATA before you try anything of the sort. Hmmm, I don't have any way of backing my data, sadly. I have been thinking about it in the past months, I must find a solution, as I often scare myself. I am not too scared by software failures, as Linux is apparently very safe in this department, but I can't help picture my hard drive crashing. I hear that even modenr drives still crash, and I would devastated if that happened to me ! I am only 27 but I have nonetheless 10 years worth of data on my drive, I just can't afford to lose it all... :-/ If WMWare can't handly H/W accelerated graphics, I think I will try Cedega, it meant to run Windows 3D games. It's not free, but it's cheap I hear. I think the ideal solution would be to have a second machine, fitted with DOS and Windows, just to run games, which would share the keyboard/mouse/monitir of the Linux machine. This way I can stay on Linux, and switch at will to the Windows machine to play games. I could also use that second machine to backup my data, killing two birds with one stones so to speak... Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:40:31 +0100, Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Ioan Suciu -- Wednesday 26 January 2005 15:58: * * Melchior FRANZ: TWhat is missing now isn't so much good advice, but someone who knows enough physics and mathematics to implement it! :( I was hpoing to be usefull, I know, and I didn't want to discourage you. It's just that we have had lots of discussions/good advice/complaints, but this doesn't lead anywhere, as long as nobody really works on the FDM. Andy said he might, and JSBSim will certainly have helicopters, too. Maybe one of them will be finished one day. What we have now is half-done rotor support in YASim (yes, rotor support, not helicopter support!). A different matter is the 3D representation, the bo105 model. About 3D representation af AC, i'm not demanding much... i'm flying from cokpit ;) Yes, and guess who provides the cockpit? The 3D cockpit? :) hmm... i miss understud the part: A different matter is the 3D representation, the bo105 model. I'm not a helicopter (or other) pilot and I can still be taught a lot. (Just spare me comments about how the bo model should be textured etc. If anyone knows that, it's definitely me! :-) If i can help u, i will.. But, once upon a time, i tryed Gmax, i wanted to recreate the glider i was flying those days for msfs, but 3D design was to much for me i never gived ather shoot to this... IS ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:40:31 +0100, Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Ioan Suciu -- Wednesday 26 January 2005 15:58: * * Melchior FRANZ: TWhat is missing now isn't so much good advice, but someone who knows enough physics and mathematics to implement it! :( I was hpoing to be usefull, I know, and I didn't want to discourage you. It's just that we have had lots of discussions/good advice/complaints, but this doesn't lead anywhere, as long as nobody really works on the FDM. Andy said he might, and JSBSim will certainly have helicopters, too. Maybe one of them will be finished one day. What we have now is half-done rotor support in YASim (yes, rotor support, not helicopter support!). A different matter is the 3D representation, the bo105 model. About 3D representation af AC, i'm not demanding much... i'm flying from cokpit ;) Yes, and guess who provides the cockpit? The 3D cockpit? :) hmm... i miss understud the part: A different matter is the 3D representation, the bo105 model. I'm not a helicopter (or other) pilot and I can still be taught a lot. (Just spare me comments about how the bo model should be textured etc. If anyone knows that, it's definitely me! :-) If i can help u, i will.. But, once upon a time, i tryed Gmax, i wanted to recreate the glider i was flying those days for msfs, but my model wasn't to good,... i never tryed again... i just fleu widowth 3d model.. i did just the FDM IS ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
You could try wine-x... It's supposed to be very good and was targeted at gaming. Haven't tried it myself, of course... LeeE On Wednesday 26 January 2005 15:01, Josh (Norm) Audette wrote: VMWare's graphics driver won't be able to use accelerated graphics. You can try, but I doubt you'll get more than a couple of frames a second. It would be a shame to spend money on VMWare just for that. OTOH if you have VMWare already it'd be a good thing to try and let us know how it works. I can suggest trying dual-boot instead. Installing Windows on VMWare will take just as much hard drive space on the VMWare virtual disk as it would on a dual-boot disk. The big disadvantage is that the dual-boot system won't have access to your linux filesystem when in Windows so you won't be able to share scenery. If you need help with managing partitions, I can offer some advice as I've successfully done partition resizing before. My biggest piece of advice, right off the bat, is BACK UP YOUR DATA before you try anything of the sort. If you want help with this feel free to message me off-list. Cheers, Josh -- Vincent Trouilliez wrote: Just try it with Wine. I suppose it might work. I have bought it about two years ago in no-name shop for five bucks I believe. I have never managed to get anything with Wine, but the 'notepad' ! :-/ I think I will think big, and try to set up WMware. Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
You can see the game here (there is download): Dan http://gr.bolt.com/download/pc/sim/search_and_rescue2.htm On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:00:03 +0100, Vincent Trouilliez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been playing SearchRescue 2 Daniel Oh, I think I was mistaken here. I was talking about SearchAndRescue (http://wolfpack.twu.net/SearchAndRescue/about/index.html) But on the page (see link) they talk about another game of the same name (SR 2) that has nothing to do with SearchAndRescue, but the link tehy give in the page, is borken apparently :o( Could you send me a valid link for SR 2 then ? I am curious. Maybe the graphics are better, or maybe the sound works (doesn't use YIFF ie...), or maybe there are more missions. I am very curious then. Thanks in advance, Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d -- Daniel Duris [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Duris Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 8:16 AM To: FlightGear user discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ? You can see the game here (there is download): Dan http://gr.bolt.com/download/pc/sim/search_and_rescue2.htm You also might want to play with Vertisim. It a simulation of a toy from the 1970s. If you owned one, or wanted one, you'll want this: http://www.peterhirschberg.com/vertisim/ Bill ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
You can see the game here (there is download): Dan http://gr.bolt.com/download/pc/sim/search_and_rescue2.htm Ah, thanks ! The graphics do look much better :o) But it's for windows !! :o( SearcAndRescue was Linux, so I stupidely assumeed that SAR2 was for Linux too ! Can't use it then :o((( That's just yet another old Dos/Windows game that I can't play. I guess I will have to get my hands dirty, and finally try and get some windows emulator to run on my machine... Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
You also might want to play with Vertisim. It a simulation of a toy from the 1970s. If you owned one, or wanted one, you'll want this: http://www.peterhirschberg.com/vertisim/ That looks one cool game !! ;o) I am too yound (1977) to remember that game, but it looks funny, will put it on my windows games to run on Linux list. Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I also have to ask FlightGear users for implementing keyboard control for FG helicopters. I have been playing SearchRescue 2 civilian coast-guard helicopter simulator and it was possible to control it via keyboard. If they are interested, I can find manual and just write the key combinations here. Daniel On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:47:33 +0100, Vincent Trouilliez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't forget that FG is a cross platform community; there are both developers and users running Linux, BSD, Windows, OSX, IRIX, Solaris etc. Oh yes, that means more people likely to help overcome problems...faster improvement of the product... :o) I'll be making some tutorials 'soon' to demonstrate how to make controls like a full-size cyclic, yoke, collective and pedals from cheap off-the-shelf joysticks and parts. Oh yes, that would be great ! :o) For Helis, a good joystisk is enough for the cyclic control, as modern helis use that anyway. However, it would be great to have a proper handle to control collective pitch, that would make it easier to fly. also, I tried some pedals once (that came with a steering wheel, was for a car game), and they although it's great for a heli to control the tail rotor, the quality was very low. They were way too light weigh, too small/cramped, and too soft. Would be great to have heavy duty pedals for my big 15 sized feet !! :o) Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d -- Daniel Duris [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I have been playing SearchRescue 2 civilian coast-guard helicopter simulator Daniel Oh, I love that game. If only they could improve the graphics ! :o( And it needs a strange 'YIFF' server thing to play sounds, never worked despite many efforts. :o( But despite no sound and hugely blocky graphics, I really enjoy the game. But there are only a few mission avaible, and no campaign, so I am getting bored doing the same flights over and over again. I subscribed to teh mailing list there, but several months later, I stll have not see a SINGLE message coming in ! Looks like development has stopped then, too bad, as I don't know of a replacement/more modern game to replace it with :o( I am glad to ehar of someone else that plays the game, it really felt like I was the only one on the earth... :-/ Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:15:17 -0500, Jonathan wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:52:59 +0100, Vincent Trouilliez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WOW ! That's very complicated ! Should I just copy/paste all that in text file and run the script ? ..after a wee ' chmod 644 /usr/local/src/rebuild-FlightGear-from-cvs ' But that will probably by-pass my package managment system (apt/synaptic) ? :-/ ..nope, we're outside of that down the /usr/local tree. I will ask the guys on my distro's mailing list, maybe one of them has compiled it and has a .deb ready for me... I will keep you script/e-mail in a safe place... Vince When it comes to Flightgear, I've a long history with by-passing my distro's package management system. When I used Red Hat/Fedora I would compile Flightgear from CVS myself and I still do the same with Gentoo. I could probably find an ebuild that works, but so far I've stuck with what I know and it works fine. Oddly enough, I've always had the best luck getting Flightgear to work when compiling from CVS. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
On Friday 21 Jan 2005 12:40, Dan Duris wrote: I also have to ask FlightGear users for implementing keyboard control for FG helicopters. I have been playing SearchRescue 2 civilian coast-guard helicopter simulator and it was possible to control it via keyboard. If they are interested, I can find manual and just write the key combinations here. Daniel The difference with SR is that it essentially stabilises the helicopter for you (or rather it uses an unrealistic flightmodel). FlightGear uses the most realistic flightmodel it can and as such the helicopter has to be finely controlled in 3-axes at all times to remain in the hover / slow flight (As in real-life) Dave Martin ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
FlightGear uses the most realistic flightmodel it can and as such the helicopter has to be finely controlled in 3-axes at all times to remain in the hover / slow flight (As in real-life) Dave Martin About the FDM for the Heli, I would not mind having the opinion of a real Heli pilot (hopefully there is one on this list ?). The only reference point I have, is a few weeks flying the Bell 206 in Microsoft flight simulator, and that was 5 years ago, but in Fligh Gear, I feel that two things are wrong. 1) If I climb to say 2,000 feet then set collective pitch to 0%, and maintain a constant and very high speed of say 120 or 140 knots, it nonetheless takes litterally several minutes before I reach the ground, almost feeling like I didn't zeroed the collective pitch at all. Feels really weird. 2) If I climb to say 2,000 feet again, then turn the engine off, I instantly lose control big time, going all over the place, instead of entering auto-rotation (sorry for the French word, don't know how it's called in English) and let me land smoothly. The bo105 looks about the same size/kind of heli as the Bell 206, so I was expecting the heli in FG to behave in the same way as the Bell 206 in MS Flight Simulator. There is a Bell 206 in X-plane, but I have yet to find out how to control the heli in X-plane... all I found was F5/F6 for collective pitch, but no idea what the keys are for cyclic and tail rotor.. :o( Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I have been playing SearchRescue 2 Daniel Oh, I think I was mistaken here. I was talking about SearchAndRescue (http://wolfpack.twu.net/SearchAndRescue/about/index.html) But on the page (see link) they talk about another game of the same name (SR 2) that has nothing to do with SearchAndRescue, but the link tehy give in the page, is borken apparently :o( Could you send me a valid link for SR 2 then ? I am curious. Maybe the graphics are better, or maybe the sound works (doesn't use YIFF ie...), or maybe there are more missions. I am very curious then. Thanks in advance, Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
About the FDM for the Heli, I would not mind having the opinion of a real Heli pilot (hopefully there is one on this list ?). The only reference point I have, is a few weeks flying the Bell 206 in Microsoft flight simulator, and that was 5 years ago, but in Fligh Gear, I feel that two things are wrong. I'm not a trainer helicopter pilot, but an Aero engineer that has done several helicopter simulators. Maybe I can shed a little light on the subject. 1) If I climb to say 2,000 feet then set collective pitch to 0%, and maintain a constant and very high speed of say 120 or 140 knots, it nonetheless takes litterally several minutes before I reach the ground, almost feeling like I didn't zeroed the collective pitch at all. Feels really weird. This doesn't sound right. Are you sure the collective is set to 0%, and not just bottomed out on control? With zero colelctive, you should assume the flight profile of a homesick brick... Oh, sorry. In clearer terms, yes, you should fall out of the sky. 2) If I climb to say 2,000 feet again, then turn the engine off, I instantly lose control big time, going all over the place, instead of entering auto-rotation (sorry for the French word, don't know how it's called in English) and let me land smoothly. You don't 'enter auto-rotation' just because you lose power. I haven't flown or looked at this model at all, but in a helicopter with irreverisble controls, if you shut off all power, yes, you are going to lose control, because there is nothing to move the swashplates, the control surfaces per sea. If the hydraulic system isn't modeled correctly, and power to the swashplates depends only on the engiens running, then turning off engines loses hydraulic pressure, and thus control. So, don't look at how the actual aircraft is designed to see what the proper response is in the simulation. You have to look at the simulation to see if that particular malfunction is modeled correctly. Autorotation is more a maneuver than a state. Losing engines in forward flight, as the air flows through the blades, aerodynamic drag causes the blades to spin, which creates some lift. In a hover, the first thing upon engine loss is to push the nose over and gain airspeed, and thus lift. That's why low and slow (hover near the ground) is so dangerous. If you lose an engine, you can't recover and get into an autorotation. In an auto-rotation, you regulating the lift produced by controlling the rotor speed. Pulling up on the collective, you decrease your rate of descent, but you also slow ther rotors down, and therefore decrease your lift and increase your sink rate. As you approach the ground, you pull up on the collective which produces more lift, thereby cushioning the landing. You have to pull collective at the right time. Too soon, and you've bleed all the speed from the rotors and you are still off the ground. Too late, and you hit the ground too hard. I heard it described once as An autorotation is something to keep the pilot busy while he is crashing. The bo105 looks about the same size/kind of heli as the Bell 206, so I was expecting the heli in FG to behave in the same way as the Bell 206 in MS Flight Simulator. Size has nothing to do with it. It's the simulation model that's important. I hope this helps, and yes, I look forward to someday in the future being able to contribute to the JSBSim helicopter modeling efforts, to make that FDM more complete. I have other stuff on the plate right now, though Good Luck, Bill ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I feel that two things are wrong. 1) If I 2) If I If I may add a third point to my own post, there is another little thing about the Heli FDM that I don't quite understand. When I start the game, sitting on the runway, I set the collective to zero, then start the engine. The Heli then start moving around, slowly turning coutner clockwise on the runway. How comes ? With the collective set to zero, I was expecting the Heli to be completely immobile, firmly laid on the ground. :o( Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I'm not a trainer helicopter pilot, but an Aero engineer that has done several helicopter simulators. Maybe I can shed a little light on the subject. That was supposed to say TRAINED helicopter pilot. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vincent Trouilliez Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 10:22 AM To: flight-gear Subject: Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ? I feel that two things are wrong. 1) If I 2) If I If I may add a third point to my own post, there is another little thing about the Heli FDM that I don't quite understand. When I start the game, sitting on the runway, I set the collective to zero, then start the engine. The Heli then start moving around, slowly turning coutner clockwise on the runway. How comes ? With the collective set to zero, I was expecting the Heli to be completely immobile, firmly laid on the ground. :o( Sounds like a ground reactions problem. Ground reactions are very difficult to model in a helicopter sim. There are different forces on all three gear, and they are different than what are experienced by a fixed-wing aircraft. Bill ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
On Friday 21 Jan 2005 14:52, Vincent Trouilliez wrote: FlightGear uses the most realistic flightmodel it can and as such the helicopter has to be finely controlled in 3-axes at all times to remain in the hover / slow flight (As in real-life) Dave Martin About the FDM for the Heli, I would not mind having the opinion of a real Heli pilot (hopefully there is one on this list ?). The only reference point I have, is a few weeks flying the Bell 206 in Microsoft flight simulator, and that was 5 years ago, but in Fligh Gear, I feel that two things are wrong. 1) If I climb to say 2,000 feet then set collective pitch to 0%, and maintain a constant and very high speed of say 120 or 140 knots, it nonetheless takes litterally several minutes before I reach the ground, almost feeling like I didn't zeroed the collective pitch at all. Feels really weird. It 'floats' quite a bit; it would be worth asking the opinion of a real-world heli pilot on this (several frequent this list). 2) If I climb to say 2,000 feet again, then turn the engine off, I instantly lose control big time, going all over the place, instead of entering auto-rotation (sorry for the French word, don't know how it's called in English) and let me land smoothly. AFAIK the bo105 doesn't yet have a modelled clutch so when you cut the power, the engine stays connected to the rotor and causes it to slow. The bo105 looks about the same size/kind of heli as the Bell 206, so I was expecting the heli in FG to behave in the same way as the Bell 206 in MS Flight Simulator. The bo105 is actually quite different to a Bell 206; things such as non-flapping blades on the bo105 give it very different flight characteristics. Dave Martin ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
Bill Galbraith wrote: You don't 'enter auto-rotation' just because you lose power. I haven't flown or looked at this model at all, but in a helicopter with irreverisble controls, if you shut off all power, yes, you are going to lose control, because there is nothing to move the swashplates, the control surfaces per sea. If the hydraulic system isn't modeled correctly, and power to the swashplates depends only on the engiens running, then turning off engines loses hydraulic pressure, and thus control. So, don't look at how the actual aircraft is designed to see what the proper response is in the simulation. You have to look at the simulation to see if that particular malfunction is modeled correctly. Autorotation is more a maneuver than a state. Losing engines in forward flight, as the air flows through the blades, aerodynamic drag causes the blades to spin, which creates some lift. In a hover, the first thing upon engine loss is to push the nose over and gain airspeed, and thus lift. That's why low and slow (hover near the ground) is so dangerous. If you lose an engine, you can't recover and get into an autorotation. In an auto-rotation, you regulating the lift produced by controlling the rotor speed. Pulling up on the collective, you decrease your rate of descent, but you also slow ther rotors down, and therefore decrease your lift and increase your sink rate. As you approach the ground, you pull up on the collective which produces more lift, thereby cushioning the landing. You have to pull collective at the right time. Too soon, and you've bleed all the speed from the rotors and you are still off the ground. Too late, and you hit the ground too hard. I heard it described once as An autorotation is something to keep the pilot busy while he is crashing. Bill obviously knows a lot more about this than me, but let me add ... I've seen people practice autorotations in R/C helicopters. I don't know how that scales to full size helicopters but in R/C land, if the autorotation is flown carefully it can be done very safely with a gentle touch down. As you fall, you configure the collective so the rushing air spins your rotor. At just the right time (relative to hitting the groud) you increase the collective, the momentum of the rotors carry through a bit, and you can generate all the lift you need for a gentle touch down. You just have to time it right and you don't get any second chances. But it's the sort of thing that when done right, you never feel your life or airframe is in any kind of danger (especially if you are watching from the ground.) :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I'm not a trainer helicopter pilot, but an Aero engineer that has done several helicopter simulators. Maybe I can shed a little light on the subject. A, your more than welcome indeed ! :o) This doesn't sound right. Are you sure the collective is set to 0%, and not just bottomed out on control? Ah well, I don't know.. :-/ Since there is no torque guage, I don't have clue what's really going on. All there is, is a vertical cursor on the far left of the HUD display, which doens't have any marks on it. I just assumed that it ranged from 0 to 100%, but maybe it's more like 50-100%, so there is always some lift being produced...no way to tell :o( With zero colelctive, you should assume the flight profile of a homesick brick... Oh, sorry. In clearer terms, yes, you should fall out of the sky. So, means that either the FDM is faulty, or that the Pg Up/Dn keys can't zero the collective. In either case, it's not fixable and I can only wait and pray that it's fixed soon in a future version of the program ! :o( You don't 'enter auto-rotation' just because you lose power. Autorotation is more a maneuver than a state Oops, sorry if my wording was incorrect. It's just that frogs don't really speak english very well you know ;o) :-/ But it was great reading your description of autorotation, it was exactly my understanding of the thing. Sadly I can't practice it right now, as I am using the keyboard, and it really takes a joystick to do fast yet accurate/fine adjustments to the controls, needed to land safely when in autoration Computer parts being cheaper and cheaper these days, hopefully I can afford a good joystick and pedals soon, and really enjoy heli flying :o) I heard it described once as An autorotation is something to keep the pilot busy while he is crashing. :o) I will write this one down :-) I hope this helps, and yes, I look forward to someday in the future being able to contribute to the JSBSim helicopter modeling efforts, to make that FDM more complete. I have other stuff on the plate right now, though Yes, please help if (when...) you can. Looks like for now, X-plane is much more suited to helis than Flightgear is. Hopefully this will change soon, say in the next year or two ? I guess it all depends how popular Helis are among flightGear developpers community ? For now, sadly, Helis look more like an afterthought... :o( Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:27:54 +0100 Vincent Trouilliez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, please help if (when...) you can. I guess it all depends how popular Helis are among flightGear developpers community ? For now, sadly, Helis look more like an afterthought... :o( Vince Actually, I had always intended that JSBSim support helicopter modeling. There is a class that has hung around for years but is not filled in with code, yet. Although, a lot of the algorithms are in my head - the FGRotor class would (as I see it, now) model a rotor using a modified blade element approach (see McCormick). But, this is down the list way below fixing the gear model, for now. Jon Project Coordinator, JSBSim ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
On Friday 21 Jan 2005 16:37, Bill Galbraith wrote: Vince wrote: With zero colelctive, you should assume the flight profile of a homesick brick... Oh, sorry. In clearer terms, yes, you should fall out of the sky. So, means that either the FDM is faulty, or that the Pg Up/Dn keys can't zero the collective. In either case, it's not fixable and I can only wait and pray that it's fixed soon in a future version of the program ! :o( That's not the right attitude. You are intersted, so dig in, investigate, try some code changes, ask questions, become part of the ommunity. What a great way to learn new things, huh? Bill Well said. Vince: You can find the FDM (Flight Dynamics Model) for the bo105 in $FGROOT/data/Aircraft/bo105/bo105.xml You can find some pointers on configuring the (YASim) FDM in $FGROOT/data/Docs/README.yasim Dave Martin ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
Le vendredi 21 janvier 2005 17:01 +, Dave Martin a crit : On Friday 21 Jan 2005 16:37, Bill Galbraith wrote: Vince wrote: With zero colelctive, you should assume the flight profile of a homesick brick... Oh, sorry. In clearer terms, yes, you should fall out of the sky. So, means that either the FDM is faulty, or that the Pg Up/Dn keys can't zero the collective. In either case, it's not fixable and I can only wait and pray that it's fixed soon in a future version of the program ! :o( That's not the right attitude. You are intersted, so dig in, investigate, try some code changes, ask questions, become part of the ommunity. What a great way to learn new things, huh? Bill Well said. Vince: You can find the FDM (Flight Dynamics Model) for the bo105 in $FGROOT/data/Aircraft/bo105/bo105.xml You can find some pointers on configuring the (YASim) FDM in $FGROOT/data/Docs/README.yasim Dave Martin Bill, Dave, don't shoot me !! ;-/ I hardly meant to show disrespect of some kind to the FG team, when I said that heli looked like an afterthought. Not at all. It's just that I happen to be interested in helis more than planes, and planes are clearly sorted zillions times better than helis. I was just pointing this out, not making any kind of judgment. I would be delighted if I could dig out a magic stick to improve the situation, but I can't do that ! :o( I have no IT skills whatsoever. It they guys behins the FDM didn't do it, who am I on earth to pretend I can do any better ? I don't even know what's an XML file. The cold fact is that I am completely unable to help in anyway other than testing models by flying them, giving my opinion on whatever aspect of the game/FDM, and give tons of moral support and encouragement. And also, obviously, I have many other things I enjoy, which already eat all my time. Learning day by day how to live with my Linux Penguin being one of the most time consuming one... Being an electronic enginner, I can probably fix my radio receiver or what have you, but if Flight Gear doesn't do what I need it to do...what can I do ? If my teh engine of my car explodes, what can I do ? I must pay for the garage to fix it. I can't even afford to spend years learning how to fix it, because I need the car to be back on the road ASAP. Sure I would love to help, but I am realistic... there are millions of FG users that are much more competent/able to help than me ! :-/ I hope you will allow me the right to be just a normal user ? ;o) Peace and love Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
AFAIK the bo105 doesn't yet have a modelled clutch so when you cut the power, the engine stays connected to the rotor and causes it to slow. Oops, maybe I overreacted when I said I lost control completely. I just tried again switching the engine off at X,000 feets, and I don't exactly lose control. What it does is nose down a LOT, and I am left with no cyclic control somehow, so can't slow down the fall. Sounds like what Bill said, I lost hydraulic pressure when turning the engine off, hence lost the ability to actuate the blades... result is the same though... I can't practice autorotation :o( The bo105 is actually quite different to a Bell 206; things such as non-flapping blades on the bo105 give it very different flight characteristics. Ah well, you certainlky know a lot more than me (which isn't difficult as I know so little ! ;o). All I meant is that I expected the bo105 to react more like a Bell 206 than, say, a Super Puma or Chinook. But again, I don't know much so I am happy to be corrected... Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
Hi, * Vincent Trouilliez -- Thursday 20 January 2005 16:20: I am using FGFS 0.9.4 Very old. Please consider to upgrade to 0.9.8. and love helicopters. But I don't have a Joystick. That's tough. Whatever you do, it won't be much fun. A joystick and pedals (or at least a js with twist axis instead) is almost mandatory for helicopter flying. And joysticks are cheap enough to keep it that way. I pressed the increase magneto key, and that started the rotor and apparently set the collective pitch to 100%, causing a rather violent and sudden take-off... The collective controls are reversed in comparison with a fixed wing throttle: pull to raise, push to sink. That's also true for the PgUp PgDn keys. You need to push the collective down (repeated PgUp) before you start the turbines. m. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I am using FGFS 0.9.4 Very old. Please consider to upgrade to 0.9.8. Yes, would love to ! But my distro (Ubuntu) was released in October last year, and came with 0.9.4. The next realease is in Apri sometime, so might come with 1.0.0 ?? Sadly I really don't have the skills to compile 0.9.8 by hand by myself, so I must wait for Ubuntu to be released again in April... :o( and love helicopters. But I don't have a Joystick. That's tough. Whatever you do, it won't be much fun. A joystick and pedals (or at least a js with twist axis instead) is almost mandatory for helicopter flying. And joysticks are cheap enough to keep it that way. Yes, not really practical indeed, but I love it so much that even with the keyboard, I really enjoy it ! I am really skint so can't afford a Joystick, so will have to wait a few month, later this year. But when I get one, I sure will get a the best I can find (hopefully it will work with FG...), and I will certainly reach new levels of fun :o))) But in the meantime, I have to do with the K/B...better than nothing... :-/ Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
Melchior FRANZ wrote: The collective controls are reversed in comparison with a fixed wing throttle: pull to raise, push to sink. That's also true for the PgUp PgDn keys. You need to push the collective down (repeated PgUp) before you start the turbines. OK, so lemme see if I understand the helicopter controls: HELICOPTER vs. FIXED WING Bank left right = left and right aileron Pitch forward, backward = down and up elevator Collective up and down = Throttle (min. = lift, max. = drop) Tail rotor CW and CCW = left and right rudder (twist joystick) Start stop turbine= Inc. / Dec. magnetos -- Josh Norm Audette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.gnurple.net ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:52:43 +0100, Vincent wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I am using FGFS 0.9.4 Very old. Please consider to upgrade to 0.9.8. Yes, would love to ! But my distro (Ubuntu) was released in October last year, and came with 0.9.4. The next realease is in Apri sometime, so might come with 1.0.0 ?? Sadly I really don't have the skills to compile 0.9.8 by hand by myself, so I must wait for Ubuntu to be released again in April... :o( ..learn. ;o) : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ # cat /mnt/sda2/local/src/rebuild-FlightGear-from-cvs #!/bin/bash ### ### # Copyright (c) 2004 Arnt Karlsen # /usr/local/src/rebuild-FlightGear-from-cvs ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Plib/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/plib login touch Plib-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/plib co plib cd Plib/plib/ # cvs update -d -P make clean # sh autogen.sh ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --exec-prefix=/usr/local make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Open-AL/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/cvs-repository login touch Open-AL-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/cvs-repository co openal cd openal/ # cvs update -d -P make clean sh ./autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local make make install # cd /usr/local/src ### ### cd /usr/local/src/GLut/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/freeglut login touch freeglut-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/freeglut co freeglut cd freeglut/freeglut/ # cvs update -d -P make clean sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --with-x --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local \ --with-plib=/usr/local --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/SimGear-0.3/ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/SimGear-0.3 login touch SimGear-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/SimGear-0.3 co source cd source/ # cvs update -d -P # ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --exec-prefix=/usr/local make clean sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local --with-jpeg-factory \ --with-plib=/usr/local --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 login touch FlightGear-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 co source cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 co data # cd source ;cvs update -d -P ;cd ../data/ ;cvs update -d -P ;cd - cd /usr/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/source/ make clean sh autogen.sh ./configure --with-x --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local \ --with-jpeg-factory --with-plib=/usr/local --with-simgear=/usr/local \ --enable-sp-fdms --with-multiplayer --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Atlas/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/atlas login touch Atlas-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/atlas co Atlas cd Atlas/ sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --with-x --with-plib=/usr/local make make install # terrasync --help # # fgfs --show-aircraft --fg-root=/mnt/sda2/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/data # fgfs --show-aircraft --fg-root=/mnt/sda2/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/data # |less # ### ### # # cd /usr/local/src/ClusterConf/ # cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs login # cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs checkout clusterconf # ..if you fix or improve anything, let me know. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
The collective controls are reversed in comparison with a fixed wing throttle: pull to raise, push to sink. That's also true for the PgUp PgDn keys. You need to push the collective down (repeated PgUp) before you start the turbines. Oh !!! Thank you, that works a treat, I managed to take off pretty smoothly, and landed the thing fairly smoothly as well !! :o) Now what would be good, is to have an instrument that displays torque, because the instrument panel doesn't have one as far as I can see, so it's impossible to gauge just where I am when I vary the collective pitch with Pg Up/Dn. Probably less of a problem if you have a joystick, since you can visually see where the know is, but since I am using the Keyboard (at least for now) Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
WOW ! That's very complicated ! Should I just copy/paste all that in text file and run the script ? But that will probably by-pass my package managment system (apt/synaptic) ? :-/ I will ask the guys on my distro's mailing list, maybe one of them has compiled it and has a .deb ready for me... I will keep you script/e-mail in a safe place... Vince Le jeudi 20 janvier 2005 19:01 +0100, Arnt Karlsen a crit : On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:52:43 +0100, Vincent wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I am using FGFS 0.9.4 Very old. Please consider to upgrade to 0.9.8. Yes, would love to ! But my distro (Ubuntu) was released in October last year, and came with 0.9.4. The next realease is in Apri sometime, so might come with 1.0.0 ?? Sadly I really don't have the skills to compile 0.9.8 by hand by myself, so I must wait for Ubuntu to be released again in April... :o( ..learn. ;o) : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ # cat /mnt/sda2/local/src/rebuild-FlightGear-from-cvs #!/bin/bash ### ### # Copyright (c) 2004 Arnt Karlsen # /usr/local/src/rebuild-FlightGear-from-cvs ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Plib/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/plib login touch Plib-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/plib co plib cd Plib/plib/ # cvs update -d -P make clean # sh autogen.sh ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --exec-prefix=/usr/local make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Open-AL/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/cvs-repository login touch Open-AL-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/cvs-repository co openal cd openal/ # cvs update -d -P make clean sh ./autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local make make install # cd /usr/local/src ### ### cd /usr/local/src/GLut/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/freeglut login touch freeglut-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/freeglut co freeglut cd freeglut/freeglut/ # cvs update -d -P make clean sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --with-x --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local \ --with-plib=/usr/local --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/SimGear-0.3/ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/SimGear-0.3 login touch SimGear-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/SimGear-0.3 co source cd source/ # cvs update -d -P # ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --exec-prefix=/usr/local make clean sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local --with-jpeg-factory \ --with-plib=/usr/local --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 login touch FlightGear-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 co source cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 co data # cd source ;cvs update -d -P ;cd ../data/ ;cvs update -d -P ;cd - cd /usr/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/source/ make clean sh autogen.sh ./configure --with-x --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local \ --with-jpeg-factory --with-plib=/usr/local --with-simgear=/usr/local \ --enable-sp-fdms --with-multiplayer --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Atlas/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/atlas login touch Atlas-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/atlas co Atlas cd Atlas/ sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --with-x --with-plib=/usr/local make make install # terrasync --help # # fgfs --show-aircraft --fg-root=/mnt/sda2/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/data # fgfs --show-aircraft --fg-root=/mnt/sda2/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/data # |less # ### ### # # cd /usr/local/src/ClusterConf/ # cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs login # cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs checkout clusterconf # ..if you fix or improve anything, let me know. ;o) ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:52:59 +0100, Vincent Trouilliez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WOW ! That's very complicated ! Should I just copy/paste all that in text file and run the script ? But that will probably by-pass my package managment system (apt/synaptic) ? :-/ I will ask the guys on my distro's mailing list, maybe one of them has compiled it and has a .deb ready for me... I will keep you script/e-mail in a safe place... Vince When it comes to Flightgear, I've a long history with by-passing my distro's package management system. When I used Red Hat/Fedora I would compile Flightgear from CVS myself and I still do the same with Gentoo. I could probably find an ebuild that works, but so far I've stuck with what I know and it works fine. Oddly enough, I've always had the best luck getting Flightgear to work when compiling from CVS. Jonathan Le jeudi 20 janvier 2005 à 19:01 +0100, Arnt Karlsen a écrit : On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:52:43 +0100, Vincent wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I am using FGFS 0.9.4 Very old. Please consider to upgrade to 0.9.8. Yes, would love to ! But my distro (Ubuntu) was released in October last year, and came with 0.9.4. The next realease is in Apri sometime, so might come with 1.0.0 ?? Sadly I really don't have the skills to compile 0.9.8 by hand by myself, so I must wait for Ubuntu to be released again in April... :o( ..learn. ;o) : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ # cat /mnt/sda2/local/src/rebuild-FlightGear-from-cvs #!/bin/bash ### ### # Copyright (c) 2004 Arnt Karlsen # /usr/local/src/rebuild-FlightGear-from-cvs ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Plib/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/plib login touch Plib-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/plib co plib cd Plib/plib/ # cvs update -d -P make clean # sh autogen.sh ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --exec-prefix=/usr/local make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Open-AL/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/cvs-repository login touch Open-AL-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/cvs-repository co openal cd openal/ # cvs update -d -P make clean sh ./autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local make make install # cd /usr/local/src ### ### cd /usr/local/src/GLut/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/freeglut login touch freeglut-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/freeglut co freeglut cd freeglut/freeglut/ # cvs update -d -P make clean sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --with-x --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local \ --with-plib=/usr/local --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/SimGear-0.3/ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/SimGear-0.3 login touch SimGear-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/SimGear-0.3 co source cd source/ # cvs update -d -P # ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --exec-prefix=/usr/local make clean sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local --with-jpeg-factory \ --with-plib=/usr/local --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 login touch FlightGear-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 co source cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 co data # cd source ;cvs update -d -P ;cd ../data/ ;cvs update -d -P ;cd - cd /usr/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/source/ make clean sh autogen.sh ./configure --with-x --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local \ --with-jpeg-factory --with-plib=/usr/local --with-simgear=/usr/local \ --enable-sp-fdms --with-multiplayer --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Atlas/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/atlas login touch Atlas-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/atlas co Atlas cd Atlas/ sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --with-x --with-plib=/usr/local make make install # terrasync --help # #
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
Vincent Trouilliez wrote: Now what would be good, is to have an instrument that displays torque, because the instrument panel doesn't have one as far as I can see, so it's impossible to gauge just where I am when I vary the collective pitch with Pg Up/Dn. Probably less of a problem if you have a joystick, since you can visually see where the know is, but since I am using the Keyboard (at least for now) It's not the same as a panel instrument, but the HUD has an indicator for how much throttle (or in the heli's case, collective) is applied. Just press 'h' to turn on the HUD. Cheers, Josh -- Josh Norm Audette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.gnurple.net ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
It's not the same as a panel instrument, but the HUD has an indicator for how much throttle (or in the heli's case, collective) is applied. Just press 'h' to turn on the HUD. Oh, HUD is magic !!! :o) Yes, the vertical slider on the far left, indicates the collective setting !! :o) Wow, it's now quite fun to fly that heli, even if it looks ugly, and even without joystick ! With a joystick, it will be just fantastic, and once we have a few good looking heli models, it will be mind blowing ! :o)) FG is really marvelous ! :o) THe weather effect are superb, clouds, lighting effect etc. So now, all they need to do is sort out the terrain. The ground looks horrible, flat, and all the moutains are very angular, not very natural at all. That said, X-plane is just as bad in this respect, so there must be some serious technical problem that needs to be overcome here... :-/ But hopefully, nothing that the Linux community, and time, can't sort out ! :o) Let's just be patient, and enjoy things as they are for now... :o))) Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
On Thursday 20 Jan 2005 20:21, Vincent Trouilliez wrote: With a joystick, it will be just fantastic, and once we have a few good looking heli models, it will be mind blowing ! :o)) FG is really marvelous ! :o) THe weather effect are superb, clouds, lighting effect etc. So now, all they need to do is sort out the terrain. The ground looks horrible, flat, and all the moutains are very angular, not very natural at all. That said, X-plane is just as bad in this respect, so there must be some serious technical problem that needs to be overcome here... :-/ But hopefully, nothing that the Linux community, and time, can't sort out ! :o) Don't forget that FG is a cross platform community; there are both developers and users running Linux, BSD, Windows, OSX, IRIX, Solaris etc. I'll be making some tutorials 'soon' to demonstrate how to make controls like a full-size cyclic, yoke, collective and pedals from cheap off-the-shelf joysticks and parts. Dave Martin ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
Don't forget that FG is a cross platform community; there are both developers and users running Linux, BSD, Windows, OSX, IRIX, Solaris etc. Oh yes, that means more people likely to help overcome problems...faster improvement of the product... :o) I'll be making some tutorials 'soon' to demonstrate how to make controls like a full-size cyclic, yoke, collective and pedals from cheap off-the-shelf joysticks and parts. Oh yes, that would be great ! :o) For Helis, a good joystisk is enough for the cyclic control, as modern helis use that anyway. However, it would be great to have a proper handle to control collective pitch, that would make it easier to fly. also, I tried some pedals once (that came with a steering wheel, was for a car game), and they although it's great for a heli to control the tail rotor, the quality was very low. They were way too light weigh, too small/cramped, and too soft. Would be great to have heavy duty pedals for my big 15 sized feet !! :o) Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
