RE: Color Output From Frame

[Jacob Schäffer]

Framers,

Unfortunately I mentioned in the second paragraph the additive and subtractive 
color models backwards.

RGB is the *additive* model, based on the addition of luminous colors. CMYK is 
a subtractive model, based on the absorption (subtraction) of complementary 
colors from (nominally) white light by pigments or inks. 
 
Thanks to Fred Ridder pointing out my typo.

Best regards
Jacob Schäffer  |  Chief Developer
Grafikhuset (House of Graphics)
Paradis Allé 22, Ramløse
DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark
Phone: +45 4439 4400
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf


 -Oprindelig meddelelse-
 Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af 
 Jacob Schäffer
 Sendt: 28. februar 2008 21:56
 Til: Frame Users
 Cc: Mike Wickham
 Emne: RE: Color Output From Frame
 
 
 Framers,
 
 Framemaker 8 still rely on the Windows GDI or GDI+ kernel as 
 most Windows applications do. This approach has a fantastic 
 benefit: Speed. Especially speed in regard to application performance.
 
 Windows GDI or GDI+ are RGB or sRGB devices. This mean that 
 Windows in general will work in 3 component subtractive color 
 spaces such as RGB instead of 4 component additive color 
 spaces such as CMYK. Although it's possible to configure 
 color management in Windows you will NOT be able to define a 
 CMYK color in Framemaker that will preserve its CMYK values  
 as you defined them downstream. Even more impossible it would 
 be to preserve SPOT colors as you define them.
 
 I have developed a solution that works fantastic in regard to 
 precise *repair* conversion. It's called Grafikhuset Publi 
 PDF with optimizer plug-in 
 (http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/tech_components_optimizer
 _plugin.html).
 
 However, I wouldn't dream of selling it to users that are 
 satisfied with the Distiller built-in 'Convert All Colors to 
 CMYK', since such users are simply not demanding enough in 
 regard to color fidelity to qualify as Publi PDF Optimizer 
 users. Such users automatically accept that a CMYK definition 
 in Framemaker will be totally molestrated by conversion 
 processes they don't control. Fine with me, but bear in mind 
 that automatic CMYK - RGB - CMYK conversions are quite 
 lossy, especially with colors that originally contained a 
 Black component. In practise this K component will often end 
 on the Y plate, but what the heck, it's CMYK :-) 
 
 If you can live with that feel free to do so! 
 
 The thing is, that CMYK or SPOT colors defined in Framemaker 
 will print as RGB and the Distiller built-in 'Convert All 
 Colors to CMYK' will POTENTIALLY not bring back the *correct* 
 CMYK values and DEFINITELY not the SPOT color values -- not 
 even their CMYK counterparts.
 
 Grafikhuset Publi PDF is a quite expensive, but extremely 
 reliable and fast solution to this specific color problem. 
 With Grafikhuset Publi PDF you can setup color maps that 
 *precisely* converts the Framemaker/GDI generated RGB to CMYK 
 or SPOT as you originally defined in Framemaker and/or any 
 imported EPS art (be careful with imported PDF art -- you may 
 loose SPOT colors on-the-go).
 
 To understand the problem better, please see my article on 
 the subject »Difficult PDF documents in prepress«: 
 http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/whitepaper_difficult_pdf_d
 ocuments.html
 
 To download a fully functioning 30-day live trial: 
 http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/download.htm.
 
 Quite a few Publi PDF users already monitor the FrameUsers 
 e-mail list. Feel free to speak up with your track 
 record/experience with Grafikhuset Publi PDF.
  
 
 Best regards
 Jacob Schäffer  |  Chief Developer
 Grafikhuset (House of Graphics)
 Paradis Allé 22, Ramløse
 DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark
 Phone: +45 4439 4400
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Web: www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf
 
 
 
  -Oprindelig meddelelse-
  Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af 
 Mike Wickham
  Sendt: 28. februar 2008 18:32
  Til: Scott White; Frame Users
  Emne: Re: Color Output From Frame
  
  
   Has Framemaker 8 made any advances in color output for Framemaker
   pages?
  
  Sadly, no.
  
   Second, has anyone discovered any new ways to create color
  output from
   Framemaker
   without having the printer giving you the, these colors
  are rgb, ..
  
  Is it graphics you are having problems with? If so, save them
  as .EPS files. 
  When FrameMaker creates PostScript for distillation it passes 
  everything 
  through the Windows GDI. This converts graphics back to RGB. 
  The exception 
  is for .EPS files, which are passed around the GDI as is. 
  CMYK will stay as 
  CMYK. So I recommend that you use only .EPS format for 
 graphics files.
  
  Also, in maker.ini, try this setting: 
 GetLibraryColorRGBFromCMYK=None
  
  You may also have an improper color management setting in Distiller.
  (Distiller also offers a Convert All Colors to CMYK 
  option.) I seem to 
  recall that having Tag Everything for Color 

RE: Frame 7.2 and Vista

[Phil Heron]

Hi Edwin,
 
I do have Frame 7.2 installed under Vista but I haven't been using it
intensively on this platform - my primary working environment is still
XP.
 
There was no problem with the standard installation of Frame, but I
didn't install the included Acrobat Distiller as I already have Acrobat
8 Pro.

As I mentioned in my message to the Framers list, I was at first unable
to install the build 158 patch, but after trying the following
suggestion from Denise L. Moss-Fritch I was able to apply the update:
---
Right-click on the patch file and select Properties.

From the Compatibility tab of the Properties dialog, select Run this
program in the compatibility mode for check box and select Windows XP
(Service Patch 2).

Click OK.
---

I haven't noticed any problems with Frame 7.2 on Vista but, as I
mentioned, I haven't been using it intensively.
 
Incidentally, I recently had to edit some old Frame 5.5 documents and I
was surpised to find that Frame 5.5.6 installed and worked unexpectedly
smoothly under Vista.

If I had had the choice, I would have chosen XP for my new PC. I find
some features of Vista extremely awkward, in particular the new version
of Windows Explorer.

Hope this helps,

Phil Heron
 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 28 February 2008 16:07
To: Phil Heron
Subject: Re: Frame 7.2 and Vista



Hi Phil,

I'm interested in your experience with Frame 7.2 and Vista. 

I was thinking about getting Vista, and wanted to know if Frame 7.2
works OK on it. 

Many thanks for any information.

Edwin Tudsbery


Inactive hide details for Phil Heron [EMAIL PROTECTED]Phil Heron
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Phil Heron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent by:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

12/09/2007 16:39



To

framers [EMAIL PROTECTED]   


cc




Subject

Frame 7.2 and Vista 


Framers,

I have just received a new PC - it's running Windows Vista.

I installed Frame 7.2 (build 144) successfully but found I was unable to
install the patch to update it to build 158.

I know Frame 7.2 is not officially supported on Vista but I am not
currently in a position to upgrade to Frame 8.

Does anybody have any experience with running this combination?

I would be particulary interested in finding out how stable Frame 7.2 is
on Vista and whether there is any way I can install the 158 patch.

Thanks,

Phil Heron
Technical Writer - CODA
www.coda.com


Using spreadsheets for group consolidation and reporting? 
Report faster and eliminate spreadsheet errors with CODA's consolidation
system, OCRA. Click here for more

_
This e-mail has been sent by CODA plc or one of its subsidiaries (CODA
GB Ltd or CODA Group International Ltd). The information in this message
is confidential and may be legally privileged. It may not be disclosed
to, or used by, anyone other than the addressee. If you receive this
message in error, please advise us immediately.  Internet emails are not
necessarily secure. CODA does not accept responsibility for changes to
any email which occur after the email has been sent. Attachments to this
email may contain software viruses, which could damage your systems.
CODA has checked the attachments for viruses before sending, but you
should virus-check them before opening. 
CODA plc: Registered in England 5861419 
Registered Office: Methuen Park, Chippenham SN14 0GB 
CODA GB Ltd: Registered in England 3909530
Registered Office: Methuen Park, Chippenham SN14 0GB 
CODA Group International Ltd: Registered in England 3938996
Registered Office: Methuen Park, Chippenham SN14 0GB
Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/etudsbery%40cpagloba
l.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.




The information in this message is confidential and may be legally
privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee; access to this
email by anyone else is unauthorised.
If you are not the intended recipient: (1) you are kindly requested
to return a copy of this message to the sender indicating that you
have received it in error, and to destroy the received copy; and (2)
any disclosure or distribution of this message, as well as any action
taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on its content, is prohibited
and may be unlawful.



___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send 

Job in Mobile AL / Pensacol FL area

[Deirdre Reagan]

Hello Framers:

Anyone interested or know of anyone interested in a job as a tech
writer in the aircraft industry?  We need people with experience
writing CMMs, AMMs, WDMs, IPCs, etc. in Framemaker.

My company is located in Daphne, Alabama.

Feel free to pass on my email address to anyone you think might be interested.

Deirdre
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Text string in title case?

[Paul Findon]

Hi Tina,

This is impossible with FrameMaker alone. I thought perhaps Spell  
Catcher could handle it, as it does have commands for changing case  
to Title style, but even that simply capitalises the first letter of  
each word.

A job for AppleScript perhaps? (NG to you unless you use Mac  
FrameMaker.)

I found a script at http://bbs.applescript.net/viewtopic.php? 
id=13297 that, in addition to changing case to Title style, can also  
set a bunch of specified definite and indefinite articles,  
conjunctions, and prepositions that don't start a sentence to  
lowercase. Something the script author has called Mixed style.

I'm not a programmer, but with a little head scratching, I managed to  
edit this script so that it searches an open FrameMaker document and  
changes all paragraphs tagged Heading1 or whatever you like to  
Mixed style. Works a treat!

Incidentally, for Title style (or what CMOS calls Headline style),  
do you follow the Microsoft style of not capitalising prepositions of  
four or fewer letters. Or Apple's style of not capitalising  
prepositions of three or fewer letters. Or CMOS's recommendation of  
lowercasing prepositions regardless of length?

Styles - you gotta love 'em.

Paul


 Hi all,



 I'm trying to put many text strings (book titles) throughout a long  
 book
 into title case. I need to do this at the character level, not the
 paragraph. For example, changing



 THE TITLE OF THIS BOOK



 to



 The Title of This Book



 So. it needs to have some logic, i.e. knows to skip conjunctions  
 like of
 and and etc.



 I can see in the character designer how to change a set of  
 characters to
 small caps, lowercase, or uppercase. Does anyone know of a way to  
 make this
 ability go one step further and become title case?



 Tina Ricks

 Editor

 Trial Guides, LLC

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

advanced search in pdfs

[mulholland4]

Hi all,
I want to add the advanced search feature to my pdfs by default, so that
when the user opens the pdf the advanced search panel also opens, as well as
the pdf and the bookmarks. Is there any way of doing this?
 I am using Adobe Acrobat 3D version 8 to produce the pdfs from postscript
files generated by Framemaker 8.
 Thanks
Mulholland
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Text string in title case?

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Paul,

For Windows FrameMaker, you can use FrameScript. If anyone is interested in 
a script like this, please contact me offlist. Thanks.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

 Hi Tina,

 This is impossible with FrameMaker alone. I thought perhaps Spell
 Catcher could handle it, as it does have commands for changing case
 to Title style, but even that simply capitalises the first letter of
 each word.

 A job for AppleScript perhaps? (NG to you unless you use Mac
 FrameMaker.)

 I found a script at http://bbs.applescript.net/viewtopic.php?
 id=13297 that, in addition to changing case to Title style, can also
 set a bunch of specified definite and indefinite articles,
 conjunctions, and prepositions that don't start a sentence to
 lowercase. Something the script author has called Mixed style.

 I'm not a programmer, but with a little head scratching, I managed to
 edit this script so that it searches an open FrameMaker document and
 changes all paragraphs tagged Heading1 or whatever you like to
 Mixed style. Works a treat!

 Incidentally, for Title style (or what CMOS calls Headline style),
 do you follow the Microsoft style of not capitalising prepositions of
 four or fewer letters. Or Apple's style of not capitalising
 prepositions of three or fewer letters. Or CMOS's recommendation of
 lowercasing prepositions regardless of length?

 Styles - you gotta love 'em.

 Paul

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Text string in title case?

[Peter Gold]

In the days of FM/unix, before book-wide search/replace and other
come-lately power features, something like this would be done with
fmbatch and one or more of GREP, AWK, and SED text-manipulation tools.

The general plan was to use control fmbatch with a unix script to
convert all appropriate .fm files to MIF, then perform the
text-crunching on the MIF files, then reconvert the MIF files back to
.fm with fmbatch.

If there's enough volume to repay the effort, something similar would
work today with mif2go from omsys.com, dobatch from cudspan, dzbatcher
from datazone.com, or FM2MIF (a new free utility that installs under
FM's File  Utilities menu option, from dtptools.com, to convert
directories-full of .fm files to MIF). I believe mif2go's MIF
converter is free; dobatch and dzbatcher are free. All but FM2MIF work
like fmbatch.

Instead of the unix tools, Perl or other newer text-manglers can do
the find/replace, perhaps with the assistance of GREP.

Converting .fm to MIF is the first step.

The second step would be to find all the ALL CAPS titles in all the
MIFs, collect them into a single-column list from which you can remove
the duplicates, and create a second column with the precise conversion
for each title - this would settle style issues over which title words
to make all lowercase, etc.

The third step would be to find and replace every instance of the
uppercase titles with their title cased partner in the MIF, without
damaging the MIF file's integrity. This may take some care in cases
where the titles break across lines, etc.

Finally, you'd use one of the fmbatch-replacements to reconstruct .fm
files from the MIFs.

I'm not a coder or scripter. Heck, my long-term and short-term memory
aren't that good anymore. BUT, it's hard to forget a proven tool-chain
process like this.G

HTH
Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Paul Findon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Tina,

  This is impossible with FrameMaker alone. I thought perhaps Spell
  Catcher could handle it, as it does have commands for changing case
  to Title style, but even that simply capitalises the first letter of
  each word.

  A job for AppleScript perhaps? (NG to you unless you use Mac
  FrameMaker.)

  I found a script at http://bbs.applescript.net/viewtopic.php?
  id=13297 that, in addition to changing case to Title style, can also
  set a bunch of specified definite and indefinite articles,
  conjunctions, and prepositions that don't start a sentence to
  lowercase. Something the script author has called Mixed style.

  I'm not a programmer, but with a little head scratching, I managed to
  edit this script so that it searches an open FrameMaker document and
  changes all paragraphs tagged Heading1 or whatever you like to
  Mixed style. Works a treat!

  Incidentally, for Title style (or what CMOS calls Headline style),
  do you follow the Microsoft style of not capitalising prepositions of
  four or fewer letters. Or Apple's style of not capitalising
  prepositions of three or fewer letters. Or CMOS's recommendation of
  lowercasing prepositions regardless of length?

  Styles - you gotta love 'em.

  Paul


   Hi all,
  
  
  
   I'm trying to put many text strings (book titles) throughout a long
   book
   into title case. I need to do this at the character level, not the
   paragraph. For example, changing
  
  
  
   THE TITLE OF THIS BOOK
  
  
  
   to
  
  
  
   The Title of This Book
  
  
  
   So. it needs to have some logic, i.e. knows to skip conjunctions
   like of
   and and etc.
  
  
  
   I can see in the character designer how to change a set of
   characters to
   small caps, lowercase, or uppercase. Does anyone know of a way to
   make this
   ability go one step further and become title case?
  
  
  
   Tina Ricks
  
   Editor
  
   Trial Guides, LLC
  
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Index colum-page breaks

[Pete Rourke]

Hi Framers

 

Another newbie question.

 

On a generated index, I have a two column spread alphabetically. My problem
is trying to find the right combination of 'keep with', Widow/Orphan lines,
Format  to keep it from leaving the Group Titles IX paragraph with its Index
line at the bottom of a column or page, and the first entry standing all
alone at the top of the second column or the top of the next page.


I have unsuccessfully tried a number of permutations without success. Maybe
there is something besides the paragraph designer??

 

TIA

(ducking for cover)

 

Pete Rourke

Chandler, AZ

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Text string in title case?

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Peter,

This is one of the strengths of MIF: that you can get an ASCII 
representation of your FM document and do manipulations like this. However, 
the advantage of FrameScript (and the FDK) is that you can work directly on 
the FrameMaker document (or book) without risk of corrupting the MIF file. 
FrameScript has built-in string functions as well as the ability to use 
regular expressions.

I recently did a TitleCase script that used an INI file for exceptions, both 
for acronyms that should stay uppercase and words that should be lowercase.

[Upper]
ADA=
II=
III=
IV=
HVAC=
TV=
XY=
UCLA=
ICU=
PA=
HUCLA=
USC=
LAC=

[Lower]
and=
to=

The script could be restricted to processing particular paragraph formats in 
order to limit its scope. Another useful feature is that each paragraph that 
is changed can be written to a hyperlinked log file. This would allow you to 
check what was actually changed, and to jump to a changed paragraph if 
necessary.

Depending on the scope of a problem, sometimes you have to fix things like 
this by hand. However, for anyone that uses FrameMaker on a near daily 
basis, FrameScript is definitely worthwhile to learn. I am amazed by how 
much people do by hand with FrameMaker.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


 In the days of FM/unix, before book-wide search/replace and other
 come-lately power features, something like this would be done with
 fmbatch and one or more of GREP, AWK, and SED text-manipulation tools.

 The general plan was to use control fmbatch with a unix script to
 convert all appropriate .fm files to MIF, then perform the
 text-crunching on the MIF files, then reconvert the MIF files back to
 .fm with fmbatch.

 If there's enough volume to repay the effort, something similar would
 work today with mif2go from omsys.com, dobatch from cudspan, dzbatcher
 from datazone.com, or FM2MIF (a new free utility that installs under
 FM's File  Utilities menu option, from dtptools.com, to convert
 directories-full of .fm files to MIF). I believe mif2go's MIF
 converter is free; dobatch and dzbatcher are free. All but FM2MIF work
 like fmbatch.

 Instead of the unix tools, Perl or other newer text-manglers can do
 the find/replace, perhaps with the assistance of GREP.

 Converting .fm to MIF is the first step.

 The second step would be to find all the ALL CAPS titles in all the
 MIFs, collect them into a single-column list from which you can remove
 the duplicates, and create a second column with the precise conversion
 for each title - this would settle style issues over which title words
 to make all lowercase, etc.

 The third step would be to find and replace every instance of the
 uppercase titles with their title cased partner in the MIF, without
 damaging the MIF file's integrity. This may take some care in cases
 where the titles break across lines, etc.

 Finally, you'd use one of the fmbatch-replacements to reconstruct .fm
 files from the MIFs.

 I'm not a coder or scripter. Heck, my long-term and short-term memory
 aren't that good anymore. BUT, it's hard to forget a proven tool-chain
 process like this.G

 HTH
 Regards,

 Peter
 ___
 Peter Gold
 KnowHow ProServices

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: Index colum-page breaks

[Combs, Richard]

Pete Rourke wrote: 
 
 On a generated index, I have a two column spread 
 alphabetically. My problem is trying to find the right 
 combination of 'keep with', Widow/Orphan lines, Format  to 
 keep it from leaving the Group Titles IX paragraph with its 
 Index line at the bottom of a column or page, and the first 
 entry standing all alone at the top of the second column or 
 the top of the next page.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the problem, but if the GroupTitlesIX
paragraph definition has Keep With Next turned on (on the Pagination tab
of Paragraph Designer), it won't appear alone at the bottom of a
column/page. 

Maybe you turned on Keep With Next for a specific instance of the
paragraph only (like in the reference page IX flow), by clicking Apply
instead of Update All? 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Index colum-page breaks

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Pete:

You want to look at the free Tocbreaker plug-in from Cudspan. It's a
little hard to find. Search with Google for tocbreaker cudspan
framemaker tools and variations. I think leximation.com has a list of
FM utilities and contacts.

HTH

Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices



On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Pete Rourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Framers



  Another newbie question.



  On a generated index, I have a two column spread alphabetically. My problem
  is trying to find the right combination of 'keep with', Widow/Orphan lines,
  Format  to keep it from leaving the Group Titles IX paragraph with its Index
  line at the bottom of a column or page, and the first entry standing all
  alone at the top of the second column or the top of the next page.


  I have unsuccessfully tried a number of permutations without success. Maybe
  there is something besides the paragraph designer??



  TIA

  (ducking for cover)



  Pete Rourke

  Chandler, AZ

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Text string in title case?

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Rick:


On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Rick Quatro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Peter,

  This is one of the strengths of MIF: that you can get an ASCII
  representation of your FM document and do manipulations like this. However,
  the advantage of FrameScript (and the FDK) is that you can work directly on
  the FrameMaker document (or book) without risk of corrupting the MIF file.
  FrameScript has built-in string functions as well as the ability to use
  regular expressions.

I have no argument. My point was simply to mention that it's possible
to do this operation with some readily-available tools.


Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: Index colum-page breaks

[Fred Ridder]

IN responding to Pete, Peter wrote
 You want to look at the free Tocbreaker plug-in from Cudspan. It's a
 little hard to find. Search with Google for tocbreaker cudspan
 framemaker tools and variations. I think leximation.com has a list of
 FM utilities and contacts.
 
The free Cudspan plug-ins (as opposed to the couple Chris developed
as commercial products), including Tocbreaker, are available at:
http://www.freeframers.org/freeware/cud/
 
 
_
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: Index colum-page breaks

[Pete Rourke]

All of myy Group Titles IX has the Keep With Next PGF checked with
Widow/Orphan lines at 1, Format at In Column. And the reference pages IX
flow is the same.

I went through each index header letter, and they were all the Group Titles
IX, but I did do the update all.

This partially fixed my problem. It took care of all but one letter - O
which with its index line is on one page, and the content is on the next.
The column break on other letters was fixed with the update all.

Better, but I'm still baffled.

Thanks Peter Fred, Stuart. I think it's all about holding your mouth right,
but then I'm NCAA (No Clue At All)

Cheers

Pete

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Combs, Richard
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:00 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Index colum-page breaks

Pete Rourke wrote: 
 
 On a generated index, I have a two column spread 
 alphabetically. My problem is trying to find the right 
 combination of 'keep with', Widow/Orphan lines, Format  to 
 keep it from leaving the Group Titles IX paragraph with its 
 Index line at the bottom of a column or page, and the first 
 entry standing all alone at the top of the second column or 
 the top of the next page.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the problem, but if the GroupTitlesIX
paragraph definition has Keep With Next turned on (on the Pagination tab
of Paragraph Designer), it won't appear alone at the bottom of a
column/page. 

Maybe you turned on Keep With Next for a specific instance of the
paragraph only (like in the reference page IX flow), by clicking Apply
instead of Update All? 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/pete%40rourke.org

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: Index colum-page breaks

[Combs, Richard]

Pete Rourke wrote: 
 
 I went through each index header letter, and they were all 
 the Group Titles IX, but I did do the update all.
 
 This partially fixed my problem. It took care of all but one 
 letter - O which with its index line is on one page, and the 
 content is on the next.
 The column break on other letters was fixed with the update all.

Put the text cursor in the broken pgf and look at the status line at
the bottom left of the window. The pgf format name is displayed there;
does it have an asterisk next to it? If so, that indicates an override.
Reapply the pgf format to that pgf. 

Grasping at straws now: FM's name for this format is GroupTitlesIX,
which isn't the same as Group Titles IX. You don't have two similar
but not identical format names going, do you? 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: Index colum-page breaks

[Pete Rourke]

Thanks Richard


The pgf format is GroupTitlesIX, and there is no asterisk on the status
line. There is only one GroupTitlesIX format in the paragraph catalog, and
re-applying the format changed nothing.

I know that adding a new line above the broken pgf is an option were I on a
hard deadline, but I will journey on at the straw grasping. 

Thanks again

Pete

-Original Message-
From: Combs, Richard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Index colum-page breaks

Pete Rourke wrote: 
 
 I went through each index header letter, and they were all 
 the Group Titles IX, but I did do the update all.
 
 This partially fixed my problem. It took care of all but one 
 letter - O which with its index line is on one page, and the 
 content is on the next.
 The column break on other letters was fixed with the update all.

Put the text cursor in the broken pgf and look at the status line at
the bottom left of the window. The pgf format name is displayed there;
does it have an asterisk next to it? If so, that indicates an override.
Reapply the pgf format to that pgf. 

Grasping at straws now: FM's name for this format is GroupTitlesIX,
which isn't the same as Group Titles IX. You don't have two similar
but not identical format names going, do you? 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--





___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Index colum-page breaks

[Stuart Rogers]

Pete Rourke wrote:

 
 On a generated index, I have a two column spread alphabetically. My problem
 is trying to find the right combination of 'keep with', Widow/Orphan lines,
 Format  to keep it from leaving the Group Titles IX paragraph with its Index
 line at the bottom of a column or page, and the first entry standing all
 alone at the top of the second column or the top of the next page.
 
 
 I have unsuccessfully tried a number of permutations without success. Maybe
 there is something besides the paragraph designer??
 
  

The widow/orphan setting affects text only within a single paragraph, so 
that is a red herring when it comes to keeping a title paragraph with 
the following paragraph.  (It is useful in keeping multi-line index 
entries from splitting awkwardly, however.)

Richard pointed out the likely solution, which is that you forgot to 
Update All after changing your Group Titles IX paragraph to keep with 
next.  That is the proper approach, because you will always want your 
group title to be followed by a first-level entry.

Peter Gold adds a recommendation for TocBreaker, a free plug-in.  That 
is also a useful tool, but not for this exact problem of group titles. 
TocBreaker is better applied to the problem of how to keep second-level 
entries listed directly under first-level entries, without having 
keep-with-next or keep-with-previous create long lists of entries that 
act as unbreakable blocks.  TocBreaker works by memorizing the places 
where you manually insert breaks, so that you can reapply them en masse 
after the file is regenerated.

HTH,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

The first 90% of the code accounts for the first 90% of the development 
time.
The remaining 10% of the code accounts for the other 90% of the 
development time.

--Tom Cargill, Bell Labs
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

PDFMark Bookmarks

[William Abernathy]

My last attempt at getting this answered resulted in zero responses. I will 
assume that it was because my post was not a model of concision or clarity. So 
I'll try it again, hitting the highlights.

When inserting PDFMark bookmarks to other PDF documents, is it possible to 
force 
the inserted links to the top of the Bookmarks panel on the generated PDF 
document? If there is, what's the magic argument? Currently, the bookmarks may 
be placed at the top of the column (if there are many chapters) or the bottom 
(if there is only one chapter).

Right now, the PDFMark argument to create the bookmark to another document 
looks 
like this:

[/Title (Title)
/Action /GoToR /File (foo.pdf)
/C [0 0 1]
/F 2
/OUT pdfmark

FrameMaker 7.2, Acrobat + Distiller 7.0 on Windows XP

Thanks,

--William

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: PDFMark Bookmarks

[Combs, Richard]

William Abernathy wrote:
 
 My last attempt at getting this answered resulted in zero 
 responses. I will assume that it was because my post was not 
 a model of concision or clarity. So I'll try it again, 
 hitting the highlights.
 
 When inserting PDFMark bookmarks to other PDF documents, is 
 it possible to force the inserted links to the top of the 
 Bookmarks panel on the generated PDF document? If there is, 
 what's the magic argument? Currently, the bookmarks may be 
 placed at the top of the column (if there are many chapters) 
 or the bottom (if there is only one chapter).
 
 Right now, the PDFMark argument to create the bookmark to 
 another document looks like this:
 
 [/Title (Title)
 /Action /GoToR /File (foo.pdf)
 /C [0 0 1]
 /F 2
 /OUT pdfmark
 
 FrameMaker 7.2, Acrobat + Distiller 7.0 on Windows XP

Well, I only play a PDFMark user on TV, but since it's Friday and no one
else has jumped in... 

DISCLAIMER: What little I know comes not from experience, but from
Thomas Merz's PDFMark Primer, which you can download from
http://tinyurl.com/29ae4x (it's an excerpt from his book).

In section 6.5, Merz offers this example of code to create a bookmark to
a URL: 

[ /Count 0
/Title (Click here for home page)
/Action  /Subtype /URI /URI (http://www.ifconnection.de/~tm) 
/OUT pdfmark

I don't see anything where Merz addresses bookmark order, only nesting
and open/closed. But I may just be missing it, so have a look yourself.

Where are you putting the PostScript code frame? I'm purely guessing,
but I'd put it on the first body page of the doc, above the main text
frame and thus ahead of any pgfs from which bookmarks are generated. I
wouldn't put it on a master or reference page (other PDFMark functions,
sure, but not bookmarks). 

Also, Merz says FM puts the frame coordinates in the PostScript stack.
It's not clear whether it matters for bookmarks, but you may need to
remove the coordinates by putting four pop commands (pop pop pop pop) at
the beginning of your code. 

That's all I've got, and it's pretty speculative, but I hope it helps. 

Happy weekend!
Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: PDFMark Bookmarks

[Combs, Richard]

Minor clarification. I said: 

 Where are you putting the PostScript code frame? I'm purely 
 guessing, but I'd put it on the first body page of the doc, 

I should have said the first body page of the first file in the book.
The point is to locate it ahead of all the other bookmark sources in the
book. 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Color Output From Frame

[Jacob Schäffer]

Framers,

Unfortunately I mentioned in the second paragraph the additive and subtractive 
color models backwards.

RGB is the *additive* model, based on the addition of luminous colors. CMYK is 
a subtractive model, based on the absorption (subtraction) of complementary 
colors from (nominally) white light by pigments or inks. 

Thanks to Fred Ridder pointing out my typo.

Best regards
Jacob Sch?ffer  |  Chief Developer
Grafikhuset (House of Graphics)
Paradis All? 22, Raml?se
DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark
Phone: +45 4439 4400
Email: js at grafikhuset.dk
Web: www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf


> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] P? vegne af 
> Jacob Sch?ffer
> Sendt: 28. februar 2008 21:56
> Til: Frame Users
> Cc: Mike Wickham
> Emne: RE: Color Output From Frame
> 
> 
> Framers,
> 
> Framemaker 8 still rely on the Windows GDI or GDI+ kernel as 
> most Windows applications do. This approach has a fantastic 
> benefit: Speed. Especially speed in regard to application performance.
> 
> Windows GDI or GDI+ are RGB or sRGB devices. This mean that 
> Windows in general will work in 3 component subtractive color 
> spaces such as RGB instead of 4 component additive color 
> spaces such as CMYK. Although it's possible to configure 
> color management in Windows you will NOT be able to define a 
> CMYK color in Framemaker that will preserve its CMYK values  
> as you defined them downstream. Even more impossible it would 
> be to preserve SPOT colors as you define them.
> 
> I have developed a solution that works fantastic in regard to 
> precise *repair* conversion. It's called Grafikhuset Publi 
> PDF with optimizer plug-in 
> (http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/tech_components_optimizer
> _plugin.html).
> 
> However, I wouldn't dream of selling it to users that are 
> satisfied with the Distiller built-in 'Convert All Colors to 
> CMYK', since such users are simply not demanding enough in 
> regard to color fidelity to qualify as Publi PDF Optimizer 
> users. Such users automatically accept that a CMYK definition 
> in Framemaker will be totally molestrated by conversion 
> processes they don't control. Fine with me, but bear in mind 
> that automatic CMYK -> RGB -> CMYK conversions are quite 
> lossy, especially with colors that originally contained a 
> Black component. In practise this K component will often end 
> on the Y plate, but what the heck, it's CMYK :-) 
> 
> If you can live with that feel free to do so! 
> 
> The thing is, that CMYK or SPOT colors defined in Framemaker 
> will print as RGB and the Distiller built-in 'Convert All 
> Colors to CMYK' will POTENTIALLY not bring back the *correct* 
> CMYK values and DEFINITELY not the SPOT color values -- not 
> even their CMYK counterparts.
> 
> Grafikhuset Publi PDF is a quite expensive, but extremely 
> reliable and fast solution to this specific color problem. 
> With Grafikhuset Publi PDF you can setup color maps that 
> *precisely* converts the Framemaker/GDI generated RGB to CMYK 
> or SPOT as you originally defined in Framemaker and/or any 
> imported EPS art (be careful with imported PDF art -- you may 
> loose SPOT colors on-the-go).
> 
> To understand the problem better, please see my article on 
> the subject ?Difficult PDF documents in prepress?: 
> http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/whitepaper_difficult_pdf_d
> ocuments.html
> 
> To download a fully functioning 30-day live trial: 
> http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/download.htm.
> 
> Quite a few Publi PDF users already monitor the FrameUsers 
> e-mail list. Feel free to speak up with your track 
> record/experience with Grafikhuset Publi PDF.
>  
> 
> Best regards
> Jacob Sch?ffer  |  Chief Developer
> Grafikhuset (House of Graphics)
> Paradis All? 22, Raml?se
> DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark
> Phone: +45 4439 4400
> Email: js at grafikhuset.dk
> Web: www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf
> 
> 
> 
> > -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> > Fra: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] P? vegne af 
> Mike Wickham
> > Sendt: 28. februar 2008 18:32
> > Til: Scott White; Frame Users
> > Emne: Re: Color Output From Frame
> > 
> > 
> > > Has Framemaker 8 made any advances in color output for Framemaker
> > > pages?
> > 
> > Sadly, no.
> > 
> > > Second, has anyone discovered any new ways to create color
> > output from
> > > Framemaker
> > > without having the printer giving you the, "these colors
> > are rgb, .."
> > 
> > Is it graphics you are having problems with? If so, save them
> > as .EPS files. 
> > When FrameMaker creates PostScript for distillation it passes 
> > everything 
> > through the Windows GDI. This converts graphics back to RGB. 
> > The exception 
> > is for .EPS files, which are passed around the GDI as is. 
> > CMYK will stay as 
> > CMYK. So I recommend that you use only .EPS format for 
> graphics files.
> > 
> > Also, in maker.ini, try 

Frame 7.2 and Vista

[Phil Heron]

Hi Edwin,

I do have Frame 7.2 installed under Vista but I haven't been using it
intensively on this platform - my primary working environment is still
XP.

There was no problem with the standard installation of Frame, but I
didn't install the included Acrobat Distiller as I already have Acrobat
8 Pro.

As I mentioned in my message to the Framers list, I was at first unable
to install the build 158 patch, but after trying the following
suggestion from Denise L. Moss-Fritch I was able to apply the update:
---
Right-click on the patch file and select Properties.

>From the Compatibility tab of the Properties dialog, select "Run this
program in the compatibility mode for" check box and select Windows XP
(Service Patch 2).

Click OK.
---

I haven't noticed any problems with Frame 7.2 on Vista but, as I
mentioned, I haven't been using it intensively.

Incidentally, I recently had to edit some old Frame 5.5 documents and I
was surpised to find that Frame 5.5.6 installed and worked unexpectedly
smoothly under Vista.

If I had had the choice, I would have chosen XP for my new PC. I find
some features of Vista extremely awkward, in particular the new version
of Windows Explorer.

Hope this helps,

Phil Heron



From: ETudsbery at cpaglobal.com [mailto:etudsb...@cpaglobal.com] 
Sent: 28 February 2008 16:07
To: Phil Heron
Subject: Re: Frame 7.2 and Vista



Hi Phil,

I'm interested in your experience with Frame 7.2 and Vista. 

I was thinking about getting Vista, and wanted to know if Frame 7.2
works OK on it. 

Many thanks for any information.

Edwin Tudsbery


Inactive hide details for "Phil Heron" "Phil Heron"





"Phil Heron"  
Sent by:
framers-bounces+etudsbery=cpaglobal.com at lists.frameusers.com 

12/09/2007 16:39



To

"framers"


cc




Subject

Frame 7.2 and Vista 


Framers,

I have just received a new PC - it's running Windows Vista.

I installed Frame 7.2 (build 144) successfully but found I was unable to
install the patch to update it to build 158.

I know Frame 7.2 is not officially supported on Vista but I am not
currently in a position to upgrade to Frame 8.

Does anybody have any experience with running this combination?

I would be particulary interested in finding out how stable Frame 7.2 is
on Vista and whether there is any way I can install the 158 patch.

Thanks,

Phil Heron
Technical Writer - CODA
www.coda.com


Using spreadsheets for group consolidation and reporting? 
Report faster and eliminate spreadsheet errors with CODA's consolidation
system, OCRA. Click here for more

_
This e-mail has been sent by CODA plc or one of its subsidiaries (CODA
GB Ltd or CODA Group International Ltd). The information in this message
is confidential and may be legally privileged. It may not be disclosed
to, or used by, anyone other than the addressee. If you receive this
message in error, please advise us immediately.  Internet emails are not
necessarily secure. CODA does not accept responsibility for changes to
any email which occur after the email has been sent. Attachments to this
email may contain software viruses, which could damage your systems.
CODA has checked the attachments for viruses before sending, but you
should virus-check them before opening. 
CODA plc: Registered in England 5861419 
Registered Office: Methuen Park, Chippenham SN14 0GB 
CODA GB Ltd: Registered in England 3909530
Registered Office: Methuen Park, Chippenham SN14 0GB 
CODA Group International Ltd: Registered in England 3938996
Registered Office: Methuen Park, Chippenham SN14 0GB
Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as etudsbery at cpaglobal.com.

Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/etudsbery%40cpagloba
l.com

Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.




The information in this message is confidential and may be legally
privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee; access to this
email by anyone else is unauthorised.
If you are not the intended recipient: (1) you are kindly requested
to return a copy of this message to the sender indicating that you
have received it in error, and to destroy the received copy; and (2)
any disclosure or distribution of this message, as well as any action
taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on its content, is prohibited
and may be unlawful.

Job in Mobile AL / Pensacol FL area

[Deirdre Reagan]

Hello Framers:

Anyone interested or know of anyone interested in a job as a tech
writer in the aircraft industry?  We need people with experience
writing CMMs, AMMs, WDMs, IPCs, etc. in Framemaker.

My company is located in Daphne, Alabama.

Feel free to pass on my email address to anyone you think might be interested.

Deirdre

Text string in title case?

[Paul Findon]

Hi Tina,

This is impossible with FrameMaker alone. I thought perhaps Spell  
Catcher could handle it, as it does have commands for changing case  
to Title style, but even that simply capitalises the first letter of  
each word.

A job for AppleScript perhaps? (NG to you unless you use Mac  
FrameMaker.)

I found a script at  that, in addition to changing case to Title style, can also  
set a bunch of specified definite and indefinite articles,  
conjunctions, and prepositions that don't start a sentence to  
lowercase. Something the script author has called "Mixed" style.

I'm not a programmer, but with a little head scratching, I managed to  
edit this script so that it searches an open FrameMaker document and  
changes all paragraphs tagged "Heading1" or whatever you like to  
Mixed style. Works a treat!

Incidentally, for Title style (or what CMOS calls "Headline" style),  
do you follow the Microsoft style of not capitalising prepositions of  
four or fewer letters. Or Apple's style of not capitalising  
prepositions of three or fewer letters. Or CMOS's recommendation of  
lowercasing prepositions regardless of length?

Styles - you gotta love 'em.

Paul


> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I'm trying to put many text strings (book titles) throughout a long  
> book
> into title case. I need to do this at the character level, not the
> paragraph. For example, changing
>
>
>
> THE TITLE OF THIS BOOK
>
>
>
> to
>
>
>
> The Title of This Book
>
>
>
> So. it needs to have some logic, i.e. knows to skip conjunctions  
> like "of"
> and "and" etc.
>
>
>
> I can see in the character designer how to change a set of  
> characters to
> small caps, lowercase, or uppercase. Does anyone know of a way to  
> make this
> ability go one step further and become title case?
>
>
>
> Tina Ricks
>
> Editor
>
> Trial Guides, LLC
>
> tina at trialguides.com
>

advanced search in pdfs

[mulholland4]

Hi all,
I want to add the advanced search feature to my pdfs by default, so that
when the user opens the pdf the advanced search panel also opens, as well as
the pdf and the bookmarks. Is there any way of doing this?
 I am using Adobe Acrobat 3D version 8 to produce the pdfs from postscript
files generated by Framemaker 8.
 Thanks
Mulholland

Text string in title case?

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Paul,

For Windows FrameMaker, you can use FrameScript. If anyone is interested in 
a script like this, please contact me offlist. Thanks.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

> Hi Tina,
>
> This is impossible with FrameMaker alone. I thought perhaps Spell
> Catcher could handle it, as it does have commands for changing case
> to Title style, but even that simply capitalises the first letter of
> each word.
>
> A job for AppleScript perhaps? (NG to you unless you use Mac
> FrameMaker.)
>
> I found a script at  id=13297> that, in addition to changing case to Title style, can also
> set a bunch of specified definite and indefinite articles,
> conjunctions, and prepositions that don't start a sentence to
> lowercase. Something the script author has called "Mixed" style.
>
> I'm not a programmer, but with a little head scratching, I managed to
> edit this script so that it searches an open FrameMaker document and
> changes all paragraphs tagged "Heading1" or whatever you like to
> Mixed style. Works a treat!
>
> Incidentally, for Title style (or what CMOS calls "Headline" style),
> do you follow the Microsoft style of not capitalising prepositions of
> four or fewer letters. Or Apple's style of not capitalising
> prepositions of three or fewer letters. Or CMOS's recommendation of
> lowercasing prepositions regardless of length?
>
> Styles - you gotta love 'em.
>
> Paul

Text string in title case?

[Peter Gold]

In the days of FM/unix, before book-wide search/replace and other
come-lately power features, something like this would be done with
fmbatch and one or more of GREP, AWK, and SED text-manipulation tools.

The general plan was to use control fmbatch with a unix script to
convert all appropriate .fm files to MIF, then perform the
text-crunching on the MIF files, then reconvert the MIF files back to
.fm with fmbatch.

If there's enough volume to repay the effort, something similar would
work today with mif2go from omsys.com, dobatch from cudspan, dzbatcher
from datazone.com, or FM2MIF (a new free utility that installs under
FM's File > Utilities menu option, from dtptools.com, to convert
directories-full of .fm files to MIF). I believe mif2go's MIF
converter is free; dobatch and dzbatcher are free. All but FM2MIF work
like fmbatch.

Instead of the unix tools, Perl or other newer text-manglers can do
the find/replace, perhaps with the assistance of GREP.

Converting .fm to MIF is the first step.

The second step would be to find all the ALL CAPS titles in all the
MIFs, collect them into a single-column list from which you can remove
the duplicates, and create a second column with the precise conversion
for each title - this would settle style issues over which title words
to make all lowercase, etc.

The third step would be to find and replace every instance of the
uppercase titles with their title cased partner in the MIF, without
damaging the MIF file's integrity. This may take some care in cases
where the titles break across lines, etc.

Finally, you'd use one of the fmbatch-replacements to reconstruct .fm
files from the MIFs.

I'm not a coder or scripter. Heck, my long-term and short-term memory
aren't that good anymore. BUT, it's hard to forget a proven tool-chain
process like this.

HTH
Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Paul Findon  wrote:
> Hi Tina,
>
>  This is impossible with FrameMaker alone. I thought perhaps Spell
>  Catcher could handle it, as it does have commands for changing case
>  to Title style, but even that simply capitalises the first letter of
>  each word.
>
>  A job for AppleScript perhaps? (NG to you unless you use Mac
>  FrameMaker.)
>
>  I found a script at   id=13297> that, in addition to changing case to Title style, can also
>  set a bunch of specified definite and indefinite articles,
>  conjunctions, and prepositions that don't start a sentence to
>  lowercase. Something the script author has called "Mixed" style.
>
>  I'm not a programmer, but with a little head scratching, I managed to
>  edit this script so that it searches an open FrameMaker document and
>  changes all paragraphs tagged "Heading1" or whatever you like to
>  Mixed style. Works a treat!
>
>  Incidentally, for Title style (or what CMOS calls "Headline" style),
>  do you follow the Microsoft style of not capitalising prepositions of
>  four or fewer letters. Or Apple's style of not capitalising
>  prepositions of three or fewer letters. Or CMOS's recommendation of
>  lowercasing prepositions regardless of length?
>
>  Styles - you gotta love 'em.
>
>  Paul
>
>
>  > Hi all,
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > I'm trying to put many text strings (book titles) throughout a long
>  > book
>  > into title case. I need to do this at the character level, not the
>  > paragraph. For example, changing
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > THE TITLE OF THIS BOOK
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > to
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > The Title of This Book
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > So. it needs to have some logic, i.e. knows to skip conjunctions
>  > like "of"
>  > and "and" etc.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > I can see in the character designer how to change a set of
>  > characters to
>  > small caps, lowercase, or uppercase. Does anyone know of a way to
>  > make this
>  > ability go one step further and become title case?
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Tina Ricks
>  >
>  > Editor
>  >
>  > Trial Guides, LLC
>  >
>  > tina at trialguides.com
>  >

Index colum-page breaks

[Pete Rourke]

Hi Framers



Another newbie question.



On a generated index, I have a two column spread alphabetically. My problem
is trying to find the right combination of 'keep with', Widow/Orphan lines,
Format  to keep it from leaving the Group Titles IX paragraph with its Index
line at the bottom of a column or page, and the first entry standing all
alone at the top of the second column or the top of the next page.


I have unsuccessfully tried a number of permutations without success. Maybe
there is something besides the paragraph designer??



TIA

(ducking for cover)



Pete Rourke

Chandler, AZ

Text string in title case?

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Peter,

This is one of the strengths of MIF: that you can get an ASCII 
representation of your FM document and do manipulations like this. However, 
the advantage of FrameScript (and the FDK) is that you can work directly on 
the FrameMaker document (or book) without risk of corrupting the MIF file. 
FrameScript has built-in string functions as well as the ability to use 
regular expressions.

I recently did a TitleCase script that used an INI file for exceptions, both 
for acronyms that should stay uppercase and words that should be lowercase.

[Upper]
ADA=
II=
III=
IV=
HVAC=
TV=
XY=
UCLA=
ICU=
PA=
HUCLA=
USC=
LAC=

[Lower]
and=
to=

The script could be restricted to processing particular paragraph formats in 
order to limit its scope. Another useful feature is that each paragraph that 
is changed can be written to a hyperlinked log file. This would allow you to 
check what was actually changed, and to jump to a changed paragraph if 
necessary.

Depending on the scope of a problem, sometimes you have to fix things like 
this by hand. However, for anyone that uses FrameMaker on a near daily 
basis, FrameScript is definitely worthwhile to learn. I am amazed by how 
much people do "by hand" with FrameMaker.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


> In the days of FM/unix, before book-wide search/replace and other
> come-lately power features, something like this would be done with
> fmbatch and one or more of GREP, AWK, and SED text-manipulation tools.
>
> The general plan was to use control fmbatch with a unix script to
> convert all appropriate .fm files to MIF, then perform the
> text-crunching on the MIF files, then reconvert the MIF files back to
> .fm with fmbatch.
>
> If there's enough volume to repay the effort, something similar would
> work today with mif2go from omsys.com, dobatch from cudspan, dzbatcher
> from datazone.com, or FM2MIF (a new free utility that installs under
> FM's File > Utilities menu option, from dtptools.com, to convert
> directories-full of .fm files to MIF). I believe mif2go's MIF
> converter is free; dobatch and dzbatcher are free. All but FM2MIF work
> like fmbatch.
>
> Instead of the unix tools, Perl or other newer text-manglers can do
> the find/replace, perhaps with the assistance of GREP.
>
> Converting .fm to MIF is the first step.
>
> The second step would be to find all the ALL CAPS titles in all the
> MIFs, collect them into a single-column list from which you can remove
> the duplicates, and create a second column with the precise conversion
> for each title - this would settle style issues over which title words
> to make all lowercase, etc.
>
> The third step would be to find and replace every instance of the
> uppercase titles with their title cased partner in the MIF, without
> damaging the MIF file's integrity. This may take some care in cases
> where the titles break across lines, etc.
>
> Finally, you'd use one of the fmbatch-replacements to reconstruct .fm
> files from the MIFs.
>
> I'm not a coder or scripter. Heck, my long-term and short-term memory
> aren't that good anymore. BUT, it's hard to forget a proven tool-chain
> process like this.
>
> HTH
> Regards,
>
> Peter
> ___
> Peter Gold
> KnowHow ProServices

Index colum-page breaks

[Combs, Richard]

Pete Rourke wrote: 

> On a generated index, I have a two column spread 
> alphabetically. My problem is trying to find the right 
> combination of 'keep with', Widow/Orphan lines, Format  to 
> keep it from leaving the Group Titles IX paragraph with its 
> Index line at the bottom of a column or page, and the first 
> entry standing all alone at the top of the second column or 
> the top of the next page.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the problem, but if the GroupTitlesIX
paragraph definition has Keep With Next turned on (on the Pagination tab
of Paragraph Designer), it won't appear alone at the bottom of a
column/page. 

Maybe you turned on Keep With Next for a specific instance of the
paragraph only (like in the reference page IX flow), by clicking Apply
instead of Update All? 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

Index colum-page breaks

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Pete:

You want to look at the free Tocbreaker plug-in from Cudspan. It's a
little hard to find. Search with Google for tocbreaker cudspan
framemaker tools and variations. I think leximation.com has a list of
FM utilities and contacts.

HTH

Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices



On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Pete Rourke  wrote:
> Hi Framers
>
>
>
>  Another newbie question.
>
>
>
>  On a generated index, I have a two column spread alphabetically. My problem
>  is trying to find the right combination of 'keep with', Widow/Orphan lines,
>  Format  to keep it from leaving the Group Titles IX paragraph with its Index
>  line at the bottom of a column or page, and the first entry standing all
>  alone at the top of the second column or the top of the next page.
>
>
>  I have unsuccessfully tried a number of permutations without success. Maybe
>  there is something besides the paragraph designer??
>
>
>
>  TIA
>
>  (ducking for cover)
>
>
>
>  Pete Rourke
>
>  Chandler, AZ
>

Text string in title case?

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Rick:


On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Rick Quatro  
wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
>  This is one of the strengths of MIF: that you can get an ASCII
>  representation of your FM document and do manipulations like this. However,
>  the advantage of FrameScript (and the FDK) is that you can work directly on
>  the FrameMaker document (or book) without risk of corrupting the MIF file.
>  FrameScript has built-in string functions as well as the ability to use
>  regular expressions.

I have no argument. My point was simply to mention that it's possible
to do this operation with some readily-available tools.


Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices

Index colum-page breaks

[Fred Ridder]

IN responding to Pete, Peter wrote
> You want to look at the free Tocbreaker plug-in from Cudspan. It's a
> little hard to find. Search with Google for tocbreaker cudspan
> framemaker tools and variations. I think leximation.com has a list of
> FM utilities and contacts.

The free Cudspan plug-ins (as opposed to the couple Chris developed
as commercial products), including Tocbreaker, are available at:
http://www.freeframers.org/freeware/cud/


_
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/

Index colum-page breaks

[Pete Rourke]

All of myy Group Titles IX has the Keep With Next PGF checked with
Widow/Orphan lines at 1, Format at In Column. And the reference pages IX
flow is the same.

I went through each index header letter, and they were all the Group Titles
IX, but I did do the update all.

This partially fixed my problem. It took care of all but one letter - O
which with its index line is on one page, and the content is on the next.
The column break on other letters was fixed with the update all.

Better, but I'm still baffled.

Thanks Peter Fred, Stuart. I think it's all about holding your mouth right,
but then I'm NCAA (No Clue At All)

Cheers

Pete

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Combs, Richard
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:00 AM
To: pete.rourke at reefpt.com; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Index colum-page breaks

Pete Rourke wrote: 

> On a generated index, I have a two column spread 
> alphabetically. My problem is trying to find the right 
> combination of 'keep with', Widow/Orphan lines, Format  to 
> keep it from leaving the Group Titles IX paragraph with its 
> Index line at the bottom of a column or page, and the first 
> entry standing all alone at the top of the second column or 
> the top of the next page.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the problem, but if the GroupTitlesIX
paragraph definition has Keep With Next turned on (on the Pagination tab
of Paragraph Designer), it won't appear alone at the bottom of a
column/page. 

Maybe you turned on Keep With Next for a specific instance of the
paragraph only (like in the reference page IX flow), by clicking Apply
instead of Update All? 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as pete at rourke.org.

Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/pete%40rourke.org

Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Index colum-page breaks

[Combs, Richard]

Pete Rourke wrote: 

> I went through each index header letter, and they were all 
> the Group Titles IX, but I did do the update all.
> 
> This partially fixed my problem. It took care of all but one 
> letter - O which with its index line is on one page, and the 
> content is on the next.
> The column break on other letters was fixed with the update all.

Put the text cursor in the "broken" pgf and look at the status line at
the bottom left of the window. The pgf format name is displayed there;
does it have an asterisk next to it? If so, that indicates an override.
Reapply the pgf format to that pgf. 

Grasping at straws now: FM's name for this format is "GroupTitlesIX,"
which isn't the same as "Group Titles IX." You don't have two similar
but not identical format names going, do you? 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

Index colum-page breaks

[Stuart Rogers]

Pete Rourke wrote:

> 
> On a generated index, I have a two column spread alphabetically. My problem
> is trying to find the right combination of 'keep with', Widow/Orphan lines,
> Format  to keep it from leaving the Group Titles IX paragraph with its Index
> line at the bottom of a column or page, and the first entry standing all
> alone at the top of the second column or the top of the next page.
> 
> 
> I have unsuccessfully tried a number of permutations without success. Maybe
> there is something besides the paragraph designer??
> 
>  

The widow/orphan setting affects text only within a single paragraph, so 
that is a red herring when it comes to keeping a title paragraph with 
the following paragraph.  (It is useful in keeping multi-line index 
entries from splitting awkwardly, however.)

Richard pointed out the likely solution, which is that you forgot to 
Update All after changing your Group Titles IX paragraph to keep with 
next.  That is the proper approach, because you will always want your 
group title to be followed by a first-level entry.

Peter Gold adds a recommendation for TocBreaker, a free plug-in.  That 
is also a useful tool, but not for this exact problem of group titles. 
TocBreaker is better applied to the problem of how to keep second-level 
entries listed directly under first-level entries, without having 
keep-with-next or keep-with-previous create long lists of entries that 
act as unbreakable blocks.  TocBreaker works by "memorizing" the places 
where you manually insert breaks, so that you can reapply them en masse 
after the file is regenerated.

HTH,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"The first 90% of the code accounts for the first 90% of the development 
time.
The remaining 10% of the code accounts for the other 90% of the 
development time."

--Tom Cargill, Bell Labs

Index colum-page breaks

[Pete Rourke]

Thanks Richard


The pgf format is "GroupTitlesIX", and there is no asterisk on the status
line. There is only one GroupTitlesIX format in the paragraph catalog, and
re-applying the format changed nothing.

I know that adding a new line above the broken pgf is an option were I on a
hard deadline, but I will journey on at the straw grasping. 

Thanks again

Pete

-Original Message-
From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.co...@polycom.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:19 PM
To: pete at rourke.org; pete.rourke at reefpt.com; framers at 
lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Index colum-page breaks

Pete Rourke wrote: 

> I went through each index header letter, and they were all 
> the Group Titles IX, but I did do the update all.
> 
> This partially fixed my problem. It took care of all but one 
> letter - O which with its index line is on one page, and the 
> content is on the next.
> The column break on other letters was fixed with the update all.

Put the text cursor in the "broken" pgf and look at the status line at
the bottom left of the window. The pgf format name is displayed there;
does it have an asterisk next to it? If so, that indicates an override.
Reapply the pgf format to that pgf. 

Grasping at straws now: FM's name for this format is "GroupTitlesIX,"
which isn't the same as "Group Titles IX." You don't have two similar
but not identical format names going, do you? 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

PDFMark Bookmarks

[William Abernathy]

My last attempt at getting this answered resulted in zero responses. I will 
assume that it was because my post was not a model of concision or clarity. So 
I'll try it again, hitting the highlights.

When inserting PDFMark bookmarks to other PDF documents, is it possible to 
force 
the inserted links to the top of the Bookmarks panel on the generated PDF 
document? If there is, what's the magic argument? Currently, the bookmarks may 
be placed at the top of the column (if there are many chapters) or the bottom 
(if there is only one chapter).

Right now, the PDFMark argument to create the bookmark to another document 
looks 
like this:

[/Title (Title)
/Action /GoToR /File (foo.pdf)
/C [0 0 1]
/F 2
/OUT pdfmark

FrameMaker 7.2, Acrobat + Distiller 7.0 on Windows XP

Thanks,

--William

PDFMark Bookmarks

[Combs, Richard]

William Abernathy wrote:

> My last attempt at getting this answered resulted in zero 
> responses. I will assume that it was because my post was not 
> a model of concision or clarity. So I'll try it again, 
> hitting the highlights.
> 
> When inserting PDFMark bookmarks to other PDF documents, is 
> it possible to force the inserted links to the top of the 
> Bookmarks panel on the generated PDF document? If there is, 
> what's the magic argument? Currently, the bookmarks may be 
> placed at the top of the column (if there are many chapters) 
> or the bottom (if there is only one chapter).
> 
> Right now, the PDFMark argument to create the bookmark to 
> another document looks like this:
> 
> [/Title (Title)
> /Action /GoToR /File (foo.pdf)
> /C [0 0 1]
> /F 2
> /OUT pdfmark
> 
> FrameMaker 7.2, Acrobat + Distiller 7.0 on Windows XP

Well, I only play a PDFMark user on TV, but since it's Friday and no one
else has jumped in... 

DISCLAIMER: What little I know comes not from experience, but from
Thomas Merz's PDFMark Primer, which you can download from
http://tinyurl.com/29ae4x (it's an excerpt from his book).

In section 6.5, Merz offers this example of code to create a bookmark to
a URL: 

[ /Count 0
/Title (Click here for home page)
/Action << /Subtype /URI /URI (http://www.ifconnection.de/~tm) >>
/OUT pdfmark

I don't see anything where Merz addresses bookmark order, only nesting
and open/closed. But I may just be missing it, so have a look yourself.

Where are you putting the PostScript code frame? I'm purely guessing,
but I'd put it on the first body page of the doc, above the main text
frame and thus ahead of any pgfs from which bookmarks are generated. I
wouldn't put it on a master or reference page (other PDFMark functions,
sure, but not bookmarks). 

Also, Merz says FM puts the frame coordinates in the PostScript stack.
It's not clear whether it matters for bookmarks, but you may need to
remove the coordinates by putting four pop commands (pop pop pop pop) at
the beginning of your code. 

That's all I've got, and it's pretty speculative, but I hope it helps. 

Happy weekend!
Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

PDFMark Bookmarks

[Combs, Richard]

Minor clarification. I said: 

> Where are you putting the PostScript code frame? I'm purely 
> guessing, but I'd put it on the first body page of the doc, 

I should have said the first body page of the first file in the book.
The point is to locate it ahead of all the other bookmark sources in the
book. 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--