Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced FrameMaker user?

[David Creamer]

>>The test shouldn't be to find out if they have Advanced knowledge of
FM...it should be an advanced knowledge of what you USE in FM for your book
of work.

I'm assuming the "you" above is the company one is testing for. Without
knowing what the company uses, I would be prepared for anything.

>>You aren't Adobe and looking for a support position...just make sure they
can do everything you need to do.

Good templates often require a little bit of everything I listed. 

It eventually comes down to what type of person the company is looking for: 
--a writer with reasonable Frame skills and the ability to learn new skills,
or
--a template designer with good workflow analysis skills.

It's possible to get both in one package, but common. 


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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[john . x . posada]

The test shouldn't be to find out if they have Advanced knowledge of FM...it 
should be an advanced knowledge of what you USE in FM for your book of work.

Example...I'd fail on the use for GREP... but in my environment, GREP would be 
of no purpose.

You aren't Adobe and looking for a support position...just make sure they can 
do everything you need to do.

--

>> Below are some topics that come to mind, but it is not exhaustive.
For writing with an existing template, I would look at:
- Proper use of spell checker, including how to import/export dictionaries into 
documents.
- Proper use of Find/Change, including GREP.
- Proper method of using existing Paragraph and Character styles.
- Best method of importing Word and Excel documents with and without formats.
- Proper creation of cross-references, user variables, hyperlinks, etc.
- Proper method of creating and adding new chapters to an existing book and 
updating book.
- Exporting the file/book to existing PDF preset.

For unstructured Frame template knowledge, I would look at:
- Best practices for names styles for usage efficiency (this is a very 
subjective area).
- Knowledge of use, editing, and creation of Paragraph styles, including how to 
edit multiple styles at once.
- Knowledge of automatic numbering best practices.
- Knowledge of use, editing, and creating of Character styles (using As Is 
settings).
- Knowledge of use, editing, and creating of Table styles and custom table 
formatting.
- Knowledge of use, editing, and creating of master pages, including custom 
pages.
- Knowledge of the difference between import of text and graphics, using the 
copy into document and import by reference settings.

Intermediate
- Knowledge of creation, use, editing, of Books, including numbering and 
pagination settings using folders and groups.
- Knowledge of creation, use, editing, of generated files, including editing 
reference pages.
- Knowledge of editing cross reference styles, applying character styles to 
x-refs and variables.
- Knowledge of using text insets.
- Editing of images in Photoshop or similar program.
- Best method for different types of imported graphics, including how to scan 
line art such as schematics. 
- Knowledge of PDF settings and how to do a PDF review cycle in Acrobat Pro.

Advanced
- Knowledge of conditional text. 
- Reuse of existing generated pages from one book to another.

Structured templates is a separate list, but the template designer would need 
to know the above first. 

David Creamer
IDEAS Training
Adobe Certified Instructor and FrameMaker Consultant since 1991

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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[ideaslists]

I would look at a number of things...

First, is one looking for a technical writer or a strict Frame production
person? If the former, writing style is more important than Frame knowledge
_IF_ the person has an openness to learn new/different programs and workflow
methods.

Second, 50% of any workflow is based on company politics. (A made up
number...) Is the company hiring willing to listen to new workflow ideas,
such as PDF review cycles, modified templates for streamlined production,
etc. or is the company stuck in the "that's the way we have always done it"
mode.

Third, related to the second issue, we are assuming the new person is coming
into a situation of working with "good" templates. Technically, this is an
unknown. This could create a problem with giving a test. For example, if I
was given a test, but had to work on a template that has problems or things
I would improve, I could have trouble with working with it. If I starting
critiquing the template, I would come across as "contrary" and "not a team
player". You might consider hiring a outside consultant to review the files
first from
https://training.adobe.com/training/partner-finder.html#p=1=adobe-fr
ame-maker=aci . I've seen templates designed by "experts" that have
impressed me and others that have surprised me with how bad they were.

Finally, asking for templates does actually tell you what the person did in
the creation of the templates; the same holds true for writing examples. The
person could have simply worked with existing templates and the writing
could have been part of a team effort. 

Below are some topics that come to mind, but it is not exhaustive.
For writing with an existing template, I would look at:
- Proper use of spell checker, including how to import/export dictionaries
into documents.
- Proper use of Find/Change, including GREP.
- Proper method of using existing Paragraph and Character styles.
- Best method of importing Word and Excel documents with and without
formats.
- Proper creation of cross-references, user variables, hyperlinks, etc.
- Proper method of creating and adding new chapters to an existing book and
updating book.
- Exporting the file/book to existing PDF preset.

For unstructured Frame template knowledge, I would look at:
- Best practices for names styles for usage efficiency (this is a very
subjective area).
- Knowledge of use, editing, and creation of Paragraph styles, including how
to edit multiple styles at once.
- Knowledge of automatic numbering best practices.
- Knowledge of use, editing, and creating of Character styles (using As Is
settings).
- Knowledge of use, editing, and creating of Table styles and custom table
formatting.
- Knowledge of use, editing, and creating of master pages, including custom
pages.
- Knowledge of the difference between import of text and graphics, using the
copy into document and import by reference settings.

Intermediate
- Knowledge of creation, use, editing, of Books, including numbering and
pagination settings using folders and groups.
- Knowledge of creation, use, editing, of generated files, including editing
reference pages.
- Knowledge of editing cross reference styles, applying character styles to
x-refs and variables.
- Knowledge of using text insets.
- Editing of images in Photoshop or similar program.
- Best method for different types of imported graphics, including how to
scan line art such as schematics. 
- Knowledge of PDF settings and how to do a PDF review cycle in Acrobat Pro.

Advanced
- Knowledge of conditional text. 
- Reuse of existing generated pages from one book to another.

Structured templates is a separate list, but the template designer would
need to know the above first. 

David Creamer
IDEAS Training
Adobe Certified Instructor and FrameMaker Consultant since 1991

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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Lin Sims]

Made me chuckle, too.

My latest grievance, however, was the way you can't tell where the  cross-reference bookmarks are invisible by
default and barely visible if you know how to fiddle the settings (I
didn't), so when I moved some text in front of a heading, all the text got
included in the cross-reference to that heading when I regenerated,
sometimes recursively. That REALLY sucked. My document exploded from 40
pages to almost 200 thanks to that little trick.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Lise Bible <rentagoodb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't think I've got any "advanced Frame" ideas to add, but Bernard, your
> Word list example made me chuckle.
> -Lise
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 8:37 AM, Bernard Aschwanden <
> bern...@publishingsmarter.com> wrote:
>
> > Lin: Consider making a list of why Word annoys you and share it with
> others
> > internally or on the list here.
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > 1. Numbering
> >a. Restarting and continuing lists
> >b. Subordinate lists
> > 4. Resetting numbering
> >c. within lists
> >d. between lists
> > 5. Just get me FM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > As for Advanced Users: First off, is it an advanced user who creates
> > content
> > as an author or one who builds templates? Or even one who has to work
> with
> > structure and build/maintain the EDD?
> >
> > In all cases, a few things to think about or ask them about:
> >
> > Do they know about this discussion list?
> > How long have they used FM?
> > Can they define what a reference page, master page, and body page is and
> > does?
> > Do they know what text frames and text lines are?
> > Do they import images by reference?
> > Can they troubleshoot numbering (see the above sample)?
> > How do they manage paragraph or character tags?
> > Can they import formats between documents?
> > How do they propose to deal with a document that has manual overrides in
> > it?
> > Can they generate a book, TOC, and IX file from templates without
> guidance?
> > Is there something that YOU learn from them about the tool?
> > How did they learn FM?
> >
> > That's a short list from me. Oh, and add in this one: Have them teach
> you a
> > feature (even if you know it) and see what their workflow is.
> >
> > Bernard
> >
> > PS. I also used to ask for a cover letter and resume in FM format.
> Serious
> > users provided me with a way to gauge how they use the tool for a
> document
> > that may have unique challenges. I got to see their approach to tags,
> empty
> > paragraphs, watermarks, variables, or whatever else they felt like
> putting
> > into it. A great insight.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers
> > [mailto:framers-bounces+bernard=publishingsmarter.com@
> lists.frameusers.com
> > ]
> > On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 9:27 AM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?
> >
> > That's WORD users who do that!
> >
> > (Finally back in the workforce, currently using Word because until
> > yesterday I was a contractor, not an employee. Hoping they get me Frame
> > soon, because Word is driving me right up a tree.)
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 11:29 AM, Art Campbell <art.campb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Advanced FM users usually have kind of a 1000 yard stare...
> > > And may have little square marks on their faces from banging their
> heads
> > on
> > > the keyboard.
> > >
> > >
> > > Art Campbell
> > >   art.campb...@gmail.com
> > >   "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
> > and
> > > a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
> > >   No disclaimers
> > apply.
> > >DoD 358
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Robert Lauriston <
> rob...@lauriston.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > If I had a badly maintained FrameMaker book with a lot of cruft on
> the
> > > > reference pages, inconsistent styles, and so on, I'd ask them to
> > > > identify problems and say how they'd clean them up.
> > > >
> > > > I'd ask to see one or more templates they'd created and have them
>

Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Lise Bible]

I don't think I've got any "advanced Frame" ideas to add, but Bernard, your
Word list example made me chuckle.
-Lise


On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 8:37 AM, Bernard Aschwanden <
bern...@publishingsmarter.com> wrote:

> Lin: Consider making a list of why Word annoys you and share it with others
> internally or on the list here.
>
> For example:
>
> 1. Numbering
>a. Restarting and continuing lists
>b. Subordinate lists
> 4. Resetting numbering
>c. within lists
>d. between lists
> 5. Just get me FM
>
>
>
>
> As for Advanced Users: First off, is it an advanced user who creates
> content
> as an author or one who builds templates? Or even one who has to work with
> structure and build/maintain the EDD?
>
> In all cases, a few things to think about or ask them about:
>
> Do they know about this discussion list?
> How long have they used FM?
> Can they define what a reference page, master page, and body page is and
> does?
> Do they know what text frames and text lines are?
> Do they import images by reference?
> Can they troubleshoot numbering (see the above sample)?
> How do they manage paragraph or character tags?
> Can they import formats between documents?
> How do they propose to deal with a document that has manual overrides in
> it?
> Can they generate a book, TOC, and IX file from templates without guidance?
> Is there something that YOU learn from them about the tool?
> How did they learn FM?
>
> That's a short list from me. Oh, and add in this one: Have them teach you a
> feature (even if you know it) and see what their workflow is.
>
> Bernard
>
> PS. I also used to ask for a cover letter and resume in FM format. Serious
> users provided me with a way to gauge how they use the tool for a document
> that may have unique challenges. I got to see their approach to tags, empty
> paragraphs, watermarks, variables, or whatever else they felt like putting
> into it. A great insight.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers
> [mailto:framers-bounces+bernard=publishingsmarter@lists.frameusers.com
> ]
> On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 9:27 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?
>
> That's WORD users who do that!
>
> (Finally back in the workforce, currently using Word because until
> yesterday I was a contractor, not an employee. Hoping they get me Frame
> soon, because Word is driving me right up a tree.)
>
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 11:29 AM, Art Campbell <art.campb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Advanced FM users usually have kind of a 1000 yard stare...
> > And may have little square marks on their faces from banging their heads
> on
> > the keyboard.
> >
> >
> > Art Campbell
> >   art.campb...@gmail.com
> >   "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
> and
> > a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
> >   No disclaimers
> apply.
> >DoD 358
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Robert Lauriston <rob...@lauriston.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If I had a badly maintained FrameMaker book with a lot of cruft on the
> > > reference pages, inconsistent styles, and so on, I'd ask them to
> > > identify problems and say how they'd clean them up.
> > >
> > > I'd ask to see one or more templates they'd created and have them
> > > detail the process of creating a new book from them.
> > >
> > > Actually, the first thing I'd suggest would be to consider whether
> > > it's time to move on from FrameMaker.
> > >
> > > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Carol J. Elkins
> > > <celk...@awrittenword.com> wrote:
> > > > Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find
> and
> > > train
> > > > an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance practice.
> > They
> > > > will not consider an independent contractor next time, so it may be
> > > harder
> > > > to recruit and identify someone with the required skills. I've built
> 20
> > > > years of documentation for this client in unstructured Framemaker,
> and
> > > > managing these thousands of documents and books depends less on
> someone
> > > > being a good technical writer than being an excellent Framemaker
> user.
> > > >
> > > > For those of 

Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Bernard Aschwanden]

Lin: Consider making a list of why Word annoys you and share it with others
internally or on the list here.

For example:

1. Numbering
   a. Restarting and continuing lists
   b. Subordinate lists
4. Resetting numbering
   c. within lists
   d. between lists
5. Just get me FM




As for Advanced Users: First off, is it an advanced user who creates content
as an author or one who builds templates? Or even one who has to work with
structure and build/maintain the EDD?

In all cases, a few things to think about or ask them about:

Do they know about this discussion list?
How long have they used FM?
Can they define what a reference page, master page, and body page is and
does?
Do they know what text frames and text lines are?
Do they import images by reference?
Can they troubleshoot numbering (see the above sample)?
How do they manage paragraph or character tags?
Can they import formats between documents?
How do they propose to deal with a document that has manual overrides in it?
Can they generate a book, TOC, and IX file from templates without guidance?
Is there something that YOU learn from them about the tool?
How did they learn FM?

That's a short list from me. Oh, and add in this one: Have them teach you a
feature (even if you know it) and see what their workflow is.

Bernard

PS. I also used to ask for a cover letter and resume in FM format. Serious
users provided me with a way to gauge how they use the tool for a document
that may have unique challenges. I got to see their approach to tags, empty
paragraphs, watermarks, variables, or whatever else they felt like putting
into it. A great insight.


-Original Message-
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+bernard=publishingsmarter@lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 9:27 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

That's WORD users who do that!

(Finally back in the workforce, currently using Word because until
yesterday I was a contractor, not an employee. Hoping they get me Frame
soon, because Word is driving me right up a tree.)

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 11:29 AM, Art Campbell <art.campb...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Advanced FM users usually have kind of a 1000 yard stare...
> And may have little square marks on their faces from banging their heads
on
> the keyboard.
>
>
> Art Campbell
>   art.campb...@gmail.com
>   "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and
> a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
>   No disclaimers
apply.
>DoD 358
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Robert Lauriston <rob...@lauriston.com>
> wrote:
>
> > If I had a badly maintained FrameMaker book with a lot of cruft on the
> > reference pages, inconsistent styles, and so on, I'd ask them to
> > identify problems and say how they'd clean them up.
> >
> > I'd ask to see one or more templates they'd created and have them
> > detail the process of creating a new book from them.
> >
> > Actually, the first thing I'd suggest would be to consider whether
> > it's time to move on from FrameMaker.
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Carol J. Elkins
> > <celk...@awrittenword.com> wrote:
> > > Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find and
> > train
> > > an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance practice.
> They
> > > will not consider an independent contractor next time, so it may be
> > harder
> > > to recruit and identify someone with the required skills. I've built
20
> > > years of documentation for this client in unstructured Framemaker, and
> > > managing these thousands of documents and books depends less on
someone
> > > being a good technical writer than being an excellent Framemaker user.
> > >
> > > For those of you who are corporate employers, I'd like to know how you
> > > screen candidates to identify those who truly are advanced Framemaker
> > users.
> > > Is there a test you employ? Do you ask them to build a template from
> > > scratch? Are there certifications that you require? Do you use a
> > recruiting
> > > service? How would you locate qualified candidates (in addition to
> > posting
> > > to Frameusers)?
> > >
> > > Note that I am NOT recruiting; that is still a few years down the road
> > 8-).
> > > I just need to start thinking about the best way to replace myself. My
> > > long-time designated backup is also planning to retire in the next
> > couple of
> > > years, 

Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Lin Sims]

That's WORD users who do that!

(Finally back in the workforce, currently using Word because until
yesterday I was a contractor, not an employee. Hoping they get me Frame
soon, because Word is driving me right up a tree.)

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 11:29 AM, Art Campbell 
wrote:

> Advanced FM users usually have kind of a 1000 yard stare...
> And may have little square marks on their faces from banging their heads on
> the keyboard.
>
>
> Art Campbell
>   art.campb...@gmail.com
>   "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and
> a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
>   No disclaimers apply.
>DoD 358
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Robert Lauriston 
> wrote:
>
> > If I had a badly maintained FrameMaker book with a lot of cruft on the
> > reference pages, inconsistent styles, and so on, I'd ask them to
> > identify problems and say how they'd clean them up.
> >
> > I'd ask to see one or more templates they'd created and have them
> > detail the process of creating a new book from them.
> >
> > Actually, the first thing I'd suggest would be to consider whether
> > it's time to move on from FrameMaker.
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Carol J. Elkins
> >  wrote:
> > > Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find and
> > train
> > > an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance practice.
> They
> > > will not consider an independent contractor next time, so it may be
> > harder
> > > to recruit and identify someone with the required skills. I've built 20
> > > years of documentation for this client in unstructured Framemaker, and
> > > managing these thousands of documents and books depends less on someone
> > > being a good technical writer than being an excellent Framemaker user.
> > >
> > > For those of you who are corporate employers, I'd like to know how you
> > > screen candidates to identify those who truly are advanced Framemaker
> > users.
> > > Is there a test you employ? Do you ask them to build a template from
> > > scratch? Are there certifications that you require? Do you use a
> > recruiting
> > > service? How would you locate qualified candidates (in addition to
> > posting
> > > to Frameusers)?
> > >
> > > Note that I am NOT recruiting; that is still a few years down the road
> > 8-).
> > > I just need to start thinking about the best way to replace myself. My
> > > long-time designated backup is also planning to retire in the next
> > couple of
> > > years, so I have to start again to find the best person for my job. I
> am
> > > willing to train them how to do my job, but it requires their already
> > being
> > > a master of Framemaker.
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> > framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> > listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>



-- 
Lin Sims
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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Shmuel Wolfson]

FM templates are a bit difficult. You can be a very advanced user 
without that.


--
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
058-763-7133


On 16-Apr-18 11:53 PM, Robert Lauriston wrote:

"What's your favorite thing about FrameMaker templates?" is a good
question, since templates per se don't exist, and advanced users have
to figure out how to work around that.

Also, the sample projects they used to include were produced by
someone who didn't know to leave out the generated files.
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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Shmuel Wolfson]

Ask them to combine some short documents using single-sourcing features, 
and see how they do it, whether they use shared book, text insets, 
variables, etc.


But I disagree that it's not important to have a good technical writer, 
and that it's more important to know FM well. You need both, and you 
could always send him/her to an advanced FM course. In my opinion it's 
more important that they have a good technical aptitude and are good at 
explaining things. I would hire someone who at least knows FM though.


--
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
058-763-7133

On 16-Apr-18 5:36 PM, Robert Lauriston wrote:


If I had a badly maintained FrameMaker book with a lot of cruft on the
reference pages, inconsistent styles, and so on, I'd ask them to
identify problems and say how they'd clean them up.

I'd ask to see one or more templates they'd created and have them
detail the process of creating a new book from them.

Actually, the first thing I'd suggest would be to consider whether
it's time to move on from FrameMaker.

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Carol J. Elkins
 wrote:

Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find and train
an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance practice. They
will not consider an independent contractor next time, so it may be harder
to recruit and identify someone with the required skills. I've built 20
years of documentation for this client in unstructured Framemaker, and
managing these thousands of documents and books depends less on someone
being a good technical writer than being an excellent Framemaker user.

For those of you who are corporate employers, I'd like to know how you
screen candidates to identify those who truly are advanced Framemaker users.
Is there a test you employ? Do you ask them to build a template from
scratch? Are there certifications that you require? Do you use a recruiting
service? How would you locate qualified candidates (in addition to posting
to Frameusers)?

Note that I am NOT recruiting; that is still a few years down the road 8-).
I just need to start thinking about the best way to replace myself. My
long-time designated backup is also planning to retire in the next couple of
years, so I have to start again to find the best person for my job. I am
willing to train them how to do my job, but it requires their already being
a master of Framemaker.

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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Shmuel Wolfson]

I don't know if the suite is the best choice if you are trying to save 
money. First of all, if you get TCS, every time you upgrade it will 
probably cost more. (I doubt there is an option to only upgrade FM when 
you own TCS.) And since you don't really need to upgrade Acrobat, it 
should be much cheaper to upgrade just FM.


Since I have the ARTS Link Checker, which works with Acrobat 7, and a 
new version of ARTS Link Checker is only available as part of a very 
expensive suite, I decided to stick with Acrobat 7. It works OK, and I 
can do the standard replacing pages, etc. I can't do a Save As PDF in 
FM, since I have to uninstall the PDF creation add-in that comes with FM 
in order to install Acrobat 7. So I print to PS then distill. That's OK 
for me.


Also, you might be able to do what you need with Nitro PDF.

I'd like to know why people feel it's so imperative to have Acrobat 
now-a-days, since both Word and FM have Save As PDF options that convert 
headings to bookmarks. When Word didn't have that feature, it was 
imperative to have Acrobat. But now I'm not sure if it's that important, 
especially the latest version of Acrobat.


Is there something I'm missing?

Just my $0.02.

--
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
058-763-7133

On 16-Apr-18 6:29 PM, Art Campbell wrote:

Advanced FM users usually have kind of a 1000 yard stare...
And may have little square marks on their faces from banging their heads on
the keyboard.


Art Campbell
   art.campb...@gmail.com
   "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and
a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
   No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358


On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Robert Lauriston 
wrote:


If I had a badly maintained FrameMaker book with a lot of cruft on the
reference pages, inconsistent styles, and so on, I'd ask them to
identify problems and say how they'd clean them up.

I'd ask to see one or more templates they'd created and have them
detail the process of creating a new book from them.

Actually, the first thing I'd suggest would be to consider whether
it's time to move on from FrameMaker.

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Carol J. Elkins
 wrote:

Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find and

train

an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance practice. They
will not consider an independent contractor next time, so it may be

harder

to recruit and identify someone with the required skills. I've built 20
years of documentation for this client in unstructured Framemaker, and
managing these thousands of documents and books depends less on someone
being a good technical writer than being an excellent Framemaker user.

For those of you who are corporate employers, I'd like to know how you
screen candidates to identify those who truly are advanced Framemaker

users.

Is there a test you employ? Do you ask them to build a template from
scratch? Are there certifications that you require? Do you use a

recruiting

service? How would you locate qualified candidates (in addition to

posting

to Frameusers)?

Note that I am NOT recruiting; that is still a few years down the road

8-).

I just need to start thinking about the best way to replace myself. My
long-time designated backup is also planning to retire in the next

couple of

years, so I have to start again to find the best person for my job. I am
willing to train them how to do my job, but it requires their already

being

a master of Framemaker.

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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Robert Lauriston]

"What's your favorite thing about FrameMaker templates?" is a good
question, since templates per se don't exist, and advanced users have
to figure out how to work around that.

Also, the sample projects they used to include were produced by
someone who didn't know to leave out the generated files.
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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Pat Christenson]

I've interviewed a few people for such a position in the past. Here's what has 
worked for me.

- Basic questions, such as How long have you  used FrameMaker? What is the 
latest version you've used? What's the largest number of FM users you've 
supported? What types of documents/books (financial, medical, etc.) have you 
supported?

- Ask them to describe a complex template (book preferably) they've built. 

- Ask them to send that template to you. (They may not be able to because of 
company rules. In that case, ask if they can send a different template.)

- Ask them to describe a FrameMaker challenge and how they handled it.

- Ask them to describe a creative solution or workaround in FrameMaker they've 
developed.

- Describe a real-life FrameMaker problem/challenge you've faced and ask how 
they would handle it.

These last two sound pretty basic but you can learn quite a bit about their 
experience level from the answers:

- What is your favorite feature in FrameMaker (or favorite thing about 
FrameMaker templates)?

- What features would you add to FrameMaker? (I've found this is a better 
question than "What would you change?")

I've been very pleased with the hires I've made or recommended using questions 
such as these. I've never administered an actual test.

I hope you will share what you come up with. Good luck!

Pat

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
<framers-bounces+pat.christenson=morningstar@lists.frameusers.com> On 
Behalf Of Steve Rickaby
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 11:53 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 
<framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

At 10:31 -0600 15/4/18, Carol J. Elkins wrote:

>Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find and train 
>an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance practice. They will 
>not consider an independent contractor next time, so it may be harder to 
>recruit and identify someone with the required skills. I've built 20 years of 
>documentation for this client in unstructured Framemaker, and managing these 
>thousands of documents and books depends less on someone being a good 
>technical writer than being an excellent Framemaker user.
>
>For those of you who are corporate employers, I'd like to know how you screen 
>candidates to identify those who truly are advanced Framemaker users.

I write here as a recipient of such a test, so apols because I'm not a 
corporate recruiter/test administerer. It was for a contract with a well-known 
London-based financial business, many years ago.

The test consisted of a number of unstructured FrameMaker tasks of increasing 
difficulty, done against the clock. At that time I considered myself to be an 
advanced FrameMaker user, but wasn't ;-) Nevertheless, I completed all the 
items in the test, which took about thirty minutes, successfully. I'm afraid I 
cannot remember now what the tasks were, but I'm sure you could easily make 
your own up.

At the end I was told that I'd done the test in the shortest time ever. Didn't 
get the contract, though, as another guy did almost as well and didn't have to 
commute/work remotely :-(

To build on what Robert suggested, how about asking candidates to build a 
folksy template from scratch, and devilishly include a couple of things that 
you cannot do with FrameMaker (there must still be some)? That way you get a 
good idea of their competence *and* incorporate the performance under stress 
and key-marks in the forehead stuff. And if that works out, then ask them how 
they'd adapt it for multi-platform delivery ;-)

--
Steve
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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 10:31 -0600 15/4/18, Carol J. Elkins wrote:

>Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find and train 
>an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance practice. They will 
>not consider an independent contractor next time, so it may be harder to 
>recruit and identify someone with the required skills. I've built 20 years of 
>documentation for this client in unstructured Framemaker, and managing these 
>thousands of documents and books depends less on someone being a good 
>technical writer than being an excellent Framemaker user.
>
>For those of you who are corporate employers, I'd like to know how you screen 
>candidates to identify those who truly are advanced Framemaker users.

I write here as a recipient of such a test, so apols because I'm not a 
corporate recruiter/test administerer. It was for a contract with a well-known 
London-based financial business, many years ago.

The test consisted of a number of unstructured FrameMaker tasks of increasing 
difficulty, done against the clock. At that time I considered myself to be an 
advanced FrameMaker user, but wasn't ;-) Nevertheless, I completed all the 
items in the test, which took about thirty minutes, successfully. I'm afraid I 
cannot remember now what the tasks were, but I'm sure you could easily make 
your own up.

At the end I was told that I'd done the test in the shortest time ever. Didn't 
get the contract, though, as another guy did almost as well and didn't have to 
commute/work remotely :-(

To build on what Robert suggested, how about asking candidates to build a 
folksy template from scratch, and devilishly include a couple of things that 
you cannot do with FrameMaker (there must still be some)? That way you get a 
good idea of their competence *and* incorporate the performance under stress 
and key-marks in the forehead stuff. And if that works out, then ask them how 
they'd adapt it for multi-platform delivery ;-)

-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Roberta Hennessey]

That bad, really? I'm on Oxygen and I really miss FrameMaker though I
haven't used it in a few years. It just seemed so much more flexible than
other tools I've used.



On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 11:29 AM, Art Campbell 
wrote:

> Advanced FM users usually have kind of a 1000 yard stare...
> And may have little square marks on their faces from banging their heads on
> the keyboard.
>
>
> Art Campbell
>   art.campb...@gmail.com
>   "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and
> a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
>   No disclaimers apply.
>DoD 358
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Robert Lauriston 
> wrote:
>
> > If I had a badly maintained FrameMaker book with a lot of cruft on the
> > reference pages, inconsistent styles, and so on, I'd ask them to
> > identify problems and say how they'd clean them up.
> >
> > I'd ask to see one or more templates they'd created and have them
> > detail the process of creating a new book from them.
> >
> > Actually, the first thing I'd suggest would be to consider whether
> > it's time to move on from FrameMaker.
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Carol J. Elkins
> >  wrote:
> > > Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find and
> > train
> > > an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance practice.
> They
> > > will not consider an independent contractor next time, so it may be
> > harder
> > > to recruit and identify someone with the required skills. I've built 20
> > > years of documentation for this client in unstructured Framemaker, and
> > > managing these thousands of documents and books depends less on someone
> > > being a good technical writer than being an excellent Framemaker user.
> > >
> > > For those of you who are corporate employers, I'd like to know how you
> > > screen candidates to identify those who truly are advanced Framemaker
> > users.
> > > Is there a test you employ? Do you ask them to build a template from
> > > scratch? Are there certifications that you require? Do you use a
> > recruiting
> > > service? How would you locate qualified candidates (in addition to
> > posting
> > > to Frameusers)?
> > >
> > > Note that I am NOT recruiting; that is still a few years down the road
> > 8-).
> > > I just need to start thinking about the best way to replace myself. My
> > > long-time designated backup is also planning to retire in the next
> > couple of
> > > years, so I have to start again to find the best person for my job. I
> am
> > > willing to train them how to do my job, but it requires their already
> > being
> > > a master of Framemaker.
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> > framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
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> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
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>
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>
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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Art Campbell]

Advanced FM users usually have kind of a 1000 yard stare...
And may have little square marks on their faces from banging their heads on
the keyboard.


Art Campbell
  art.campb...@gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and
a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358


On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> If I had a badly maintained FrameMaker book with a lot of cruft on the
> reference pages, inconsistent styles, and so on, I'd ask them to
> identify problems and say how they'd clean them up.
>
> I'd ask to see one or more templates they'd created and have them
> detail the process of creating a new book from them.
>
> Actually, the first thing I'd suggest would be to consider whether
> it's time to move on from FrameMaker.
>
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Carol J. Elkins
>  wrote:
> > Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find and
> train
> > an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance practice. They
> > will not consider an independent contractor next time, so it may be
> harder
> > to recruit and identify someone with the required skills. I've built 20
> > years of documentation for this client in unstructured Framemaker, and
> > managing these thousands of documents and books depends less on someone
> > being a good technical writer than being an excellent Framemaker user.
> >
> > For those of you who are corporate employers, I'd like to know how you
> > screen candidates to identify those who truly are advanced Framemaker
> users.
> > Is there a test you employ? Do you ask them to build a template from
> > scratch? Are there certifications that you require? Do you use a
> recruiting
> > service? How would you locate qualified candidates (in addition to
> posting
> > to Frameusers)?
> >
> > Note that I am NOT recruiting; that is still a few years down the road
> 8-).
> > I just need to start thinking about the best way to replace myself. My
> > long-time designated backup is also planning to retire in the next
> couple of
> > years, so I have to start again to find the best person for my job. I am
> > willing to train them how to do my job, but it requires their already
> being
> > a master of Framemaker.
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>
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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Robert Lauriston]

If I had a badly maintained FrameMaker book with a lot of cruft on the
reference pages, inconsistent styles, and so on, I'd ask them to
identify problems and say how they'd clean them up.

I'd ask to see one or more templates they'd created and have them
detail the process of creating a new book from them.

Actually, the first thing I'd suggest would be to consider whether
it's time to move on from FrameMaker.

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Carol J. Elkins
 wrote:
> Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find and train
> an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance practice. They
> will not consider an independent contractor next time, so it may be harder
> to recruit and identify someone with the required skills. I've built 20
> years of documentation for this client in unstructured Framemaker, and
> managing these thousands of documents and books depends less on someone
> being a good technical writer than being an excellent Framemaker user.
>
> For those of you who are corporate employers, I'd like to know how you
> screen candidates to identify those who truly are advanced Framemaker users.
> Is there a test you employ? Do you ask them to build a template from
> scratch? Are there certifications that you require? Do you use a recruiting
> service? How would you locate qualified candidates (in addition to posting
> to Frameusers)?
>
> Note that I am NOT recruiting; that is still a few years down the road 8-).
> I just need to start thinking about the best way to replace myself. My
> long-time designated backup is also planning to retire in the next couple of
> years, so I have to start again to find the best person for my job. I am
> willing to train them how to do my job, but it requires their already being
> a master of Framemaker.
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Re: [Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[John Sgammato]

Tomorrow afternoon I will go over an exercise that I set up for a new hire.
My boss wants to be satisfied that he's competent with FM.
I have a doc with some standard and some "advanced" features like text
insets. At least a couple of images will fail because they are not in the
folder that he's getting. It's not a rigorous exam (mostly I want to see if
he keeps a cool head in the face of technical adversity) - but I expect to
learn how confident I can be that he'll either panic or find a way to
resolve whatever issues pop up, and know when to cal for help.


On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Carol J. Elkins 
wrote:

> Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find and
> train an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance practice.
> They will not consider an independent contractor next time, so it may be
> harder to recruit and identify someone with the required skills. I've built
> 20 years of documentation for this client in unstructured Framemaker, and
> managing these thousands of documents and books depends less on someone
> being a good technical writer than being an excellent Framemaker user.
>
> For those of you who are corporate employers, I'd like to know how you
> screen candidates to identify those who truly are advanced Framemaker
> users. Is there a test you employ? Do you ask them to build a template from
> scratch? Are there certifications that you require? Do you use a recruiting
> service? How would you locate qualified candidates (in addition to posting
> to Frameusers)?
>
> Note that I am NOT recruiting; that is still a few years down the road
> 8-). I just need to start thinking about the best way to replace myself. My
> long-time designated backup is also planning to retire in the next couple
> of years, so I have to start again to find the best person for my job. I am
> willing to train them how to do my job, but it requires their already being
> a master of Framemaker.
>
> Carol
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/fr
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*John Sgammato* *Documentation Architect*
 m 508.927.2083 | john.sgamm...@actifio.com | actifio.com
 


*Access your enterprise data as a service, instantly anywhere.*
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[Framers] How do you identify an advanced Framemaker user?

[Carol J. Elkins]

Over the next couple of years, I need to help my major client find 
and train an in-house replacement for me as I wind down my freelance 
practice. They will not consider an independent contractor next time, 
so it may be harder to recruit and identify someone with the required 
skills. I've built 20 years of documentation for this client in 
unstructured Framemaker, and managing these thousands of documents 
and books depends less on someone being a good technical writer than 
being an excellent Framemaker user.


For those of you who are corporate employers, I'd like to know how 
you screen candidates to identify those who truly are advanced 
Framemaker users. Is there a test you employ? Do you ask them to 
build a template from scratch? Are there certifications that you 
require? Do you use a recruiting service? How would you locate 
qualified candidates (in addition to posting to Frameusers)?


Note that I am NOT recruiting; that is still a few years down the 
road 8-). I just need to start thinking about the best way to replace 
myself. My long-time designated backup is also planning to retire in 
the next couple of years, so I have to start again to find the best 
person for my job. I am willing to train them how to do my job, but 
it requires their already being a master of Framemaker.


Carol

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