Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 14:47 -0500 17/10/12, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:

About five years later I worked on the first affordable dedicated word 
processor, the Artec Display 2000, with a 37-character LED display, only $9,995

I do sometimes worry about the average age of members of this group ;-)

Hockey-puck disk drives, anyone?

-- 
Steve
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Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 14:47 -0500 17/10/12, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:

>About five years later I worked on the first "affordable" dedicated word 
>processor, the Artec Display 2000, with a 37-character LED display, only $9,995

I do sometimes worry about the average age of members of this group ;-)

Hockey-puck disk drives, anyone?

-- 
Steve

Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 20:32 -0500 16/10/12, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:

...because it was invented by IBM for the MTST (Magnetic Tape Selectric 
Typewriter)...

You mean there was an *automatic* Selectric? Why didn't I know about this?? Why 
didn't I have one??? ;-)

-- 
Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet]
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Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Frank Stearns]

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012, Steve Rickaby wrote:


At 20:32 -0500 16/10/12, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:


...because it was invented by IBM for the MTST (Magnetic Tape Selectric 
Typewriter)...


You mean there was an *automatic* Selectric? Why didn't I know about 
this?? Why didn't I have one??? ;-)


Automatic in one sense that the machine had been designed to be an 
output device -- a printer -- with the correct hardware added inside.


In the mid-70s I purchased an interface kit from a third party that 
installed inside the Seletric. Selonoids and linkages; wires 
snaking through the guts. (7 selonoids could select any character on 
the type ball.)


Took many months to get it adjusted just right, but it was glorious to 
have the results of work done with the primitive word processor 
(hosted in a 60 pound S-100 system with a whopping 32K of memory) spit 
out text at nearly twice the rate I could type.


Interesting times. :)

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10 IS HERE! ***
fra...@fsatools.com mailto:fra...@fsatools.com
TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):  800-567-6421
USA Voice: 360-892-3970  http://www.fsatools.com
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Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed? - a solution

[Carol J. Elkins]

Rebecca, you are brilliant! I had assumed that because the imported 
colors were overrides to the paratag, I wouldn't be able to do 
anything to them. It didn't even occur to me that I could search for 
them. I was looking for a much harder solution. Thanks so much for the push.


Carol

At 08:39 PM 10/16/2012, rebecca officer wrote:

You can use FM's Find/Change for this.
Then, in your document:
Define your new colour.
Then click outside the text frame on any page, so you don't have a 
cursor in any text.

Then open Find/Change dialog and select Find Character Format.
The Find Character Format dialog opens and should have everything 
set to As Is. Change the colour to Green and click Set.
Then select Change  To Character Format, make sure everything is 
set to As Is, select the new colour, and click Set.
Then click the Change All button. All instances of Green will 
magically change to your new colour.


**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celk...@awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

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Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:08:10 +0100, Steve Rickaby 
srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote:

At 20:32 -0500 16/10/12, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:

...because it was invented by IBM for the MTST 
(Magnetic Tape Selectric Typewriter)...

You mean there was an *automatic* Selectric? Why 
didn't I know about this?? Why didn't I have one??? ;-)

They were kinda expensive, I think in the $20K range.
My company at the time leased four of them, plus
the MTSC, Magnetic Tape Selectric Composer, which
did fine proportional spacing.  It used different
type balls from the regular Selectric.  There was
also an MCST, Magnetic Card Selectric Typewriter,
but it didn't catch on as well as the MTST.  I 
think I still have a few MTST tape cartridges; 
they held about seven pages each...  ;-)

About five years later I worked on the first
affordable dedicated word processor, the Artec
Display 2000, with a 37-character LED display,
only $9,995, plus options like more memory (16K
to start) and a second 8 floppy drive.  It ran
CP/M internally.  I still have one in storage,
the developers' model with 64K, two 8 drives,
an RS-232 port for a terminal (not monitor),
and a ROM that allowed copying disks (not for
customers; blanks were $10, program disks $50).
The company was later purchased by Dictaphone,
which was swallowed by Pitney-Bowes, and the
next version, the $15K Dual Display with a CRT,
never made it out.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  jer...@omsys.comhttp://mif2go.com/
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Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed? - a solution

[rebecca officer]

Hi Carol
 
You can use FM's Find/Change for this. 
 
First, back up your document. 
 
Then, in your document:
Define your new colour. 
Then click outside the text frame on any page, so you don't have a cursor in 
any text.
Then open Find/Change dialog and select Find Character Format.
The Find Character Format dialog opens and should have everything set to As Is. 
Change the colour to Green and click Set.
Then select Change  To Character Format, make sure everything is set to As Is, 
select the new colour, and click Set. 
Then click the Change All button. All instances of Green will magically change 
to your new colour.
 
As long as everything is As Is apart from the colour, this'll leave all other 
formatting alone. If everything isn't set to As Is, it'll screw up other 
formatting. Back up first!
 
Cheers
Rebecca

 Carol J. Elkins celk...@awrittenword.com 17/10/12 08:07 
Nope, defining my own colors isn't an option in this case. Working in 
Frame9, I'm importing (not by reference but by creating a copy) an 
Excel file containing Excel's red strikeout and green colors to 
distinguish new and deleted text, so all resulting text is formatted 
as an override to Frame's Body tag. Tagging changed/deleted text in 
hundreds of pages of table rows isn't an option either, so I can't 
use a custom color definition. As Rick pointed out, it looks like 
Frame won't budge on its idea of what green is. Thanks everyone for 
your help.

Carol


At 12:14 PM 10/16/2012, you wrote:
Forgive me for stating the obvious, but won't merely defining the 
green you want as a custom color work for you?

**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celk...@awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

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Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Harpreet Singh Seehra]

You can do this, make a new color definition and give it whatever  definition 
you want it to be(less florescent green) and use it.

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins
Sent: 16 October 2012 23:33
To: framers at omsys.com; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

Does anyone know if it is possible to change the values of one of Framemaker's 
default color definitions? I'd like to make the Green less florescent by 
darkening it a bit. But when I select Green in the Color Definitions list and 
select a darker color, the Change button is dimmed (this only happens for the 
default colors). So changing any of the default colors from the UI doesn't seem 
to be an option. Any other way?

Carol

**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celkins at awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

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Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Alan T Litchfield]

I don't think this is what Carol was asking.

Yes, you can/should define a new colour if you want something different 
from the default, as a couple have said.

No, you cannot redefine the default colours and there is no reason to, 
because you can create new colours.

I suggest you read up on green, red and blue to see why they are default 
colours. Similarly with cyan, magenta, yellow, black and white.

Alan

On 17/10/12 7:23 AM, Harpreet Singh Seehra wrote:
> You can do this, make a new color definition and give it whatever  definition 
> you want it to be(less florescent green) and use it.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
> lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins
> Sent: 16 October 2012 23:33
> To: framers at omsys.com; framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?
>
> Does anyone know if it is possible to change the values of one of 
> Framemaker's default color definitions? I'd like to make the Green less 
> florescent by darkening it a bit. But when I select Green in the Color 
> Definitions list and select a darker color, the Change button is dimmed (this 
> only happens for the default colors). So changing any of the default colors 
> from the UI doesn't seem to be an option. Any other way?
>
> Carol
>
> **
> Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
> Making Information Understandable
> Phone: 719-948-3773
> mailto:celkins at awrittenword.com
> http://www.awrittenword.com
> ***
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as hsinghse at adobe.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
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-- 
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Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 20:32 -0500 16/10/12, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:

>...because it was invented by IBM for the MTST (Magnetic Tape Selectric 
>Typewriter)...

You mean there was an *automatic* Selectric? Why didn't I know about this?? Why 
didn't I have one??? ;-)

-- 
Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet]

*****SPAM***** Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Frank Stearns]

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012, Steve Rickaby wrote:

> At 20:32 -0500 16/10/12, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:
>
>> ...because it was invented by IBM for the MTST (Magnetic Tape Selectric 
>> Typewriter)...
>
> You mean there was an *automatic* Selectric? Why didn't I know about 
> this?? Why didn't I have one??? ;-)

"Automatic" in one sense that the machine had been designed to be an 
output device -- a printer -- with the correct hardware added inside.

In the mid-70s I purchased an interface kit from a third party that 
installed inside the Seletric. Selonoids and linkages; wires 
snaking through the guts. (7 selonoids could select any character on 
the type ball.)

Took many months to get it adjusted just right, but it was glorious to 
have the results of work done with the primitive word processor 
(hosted in a 60 pound S-100 system with a whopping 32K of memory) spit 
out text at nearly twice the rate I could type.

Interesting times. :)

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10 IS HERE! ***
franks at fsatools.com 
TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):  800-567-6421
USA Voice: 360-892-3970  http://www.fsatools.com

Can Frame's default color definitions be changed? - a solution

[Carol J. Elkins]

Rebecca, you are brilliant! I had assumed that because the imported 
colors were overrides to the paratag, I wouldn't be able to do 
anything to them. It didn't even occur to me that I could search for 
them. I was looking for a much harder solution. Thanks so much for the "push."

Carol

At 08:39 PM 10/16/2012, rebecca officer wrote:
>You can use FM's Find/Change for this.
>Then, in your document:
>Define your new colour.
>Then click outside the text frame on any page, so you don't have a 
>cursor in any text.
>Then open Find/Change dialog and select Find >Character Format.
>The Find Character Format dialog opens and should have everything 
>set to As Is. Change the colour to Green and click Set.
>Then select Change > To Character Format, make sure everything is 
>set to As Is, select the new colour, and click Set.
>Then click the Change All button. All instances of Green will 
>magically change to your new colour.

**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celkins at awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:08:10 +0100, Steve Rickaby 
 wrote:

>At 20:32 -0500 16/10/12, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:
>
>>...because it was invented by IBM for the MTST 
>(Magnetic Tape Selectric Typewriter)...
>
>You mean there was an *automatic* Selectric? Why 
>didn't I know about this?? Why didn't I have one??? ;-)

They were kinda expensive, I think in the $20K range.
My company at the time leased four of them, plus
the MTSC, Magnetic Tape Selectric Composer, which
did fine proportional spacing.  It used different
type balls from the regular Selectric.  There was
also an MCST, Magnetic Card Selectric Typewriter,
but it didn't catch on as well as the MTST.  I 
think I still have a few MTST tape cartridges; 
they held about seven pages each...  ;-)

About five years later I worked on the first
"affordable" dedicated word processor, the Artec
Display 2000, with a 37-character LED display,
only $9,995, plus options like more memory (16K
to start) and a second 8" floppy drive.  It ran
CP/M internally.  I still have one in storage,
the developers' model with 64K, two 8" drives,
an RS-232 port for a terminal (not monitor),
and a ROM that allowed copying disks (not for
customers; blanks were $10, program disks $50).
The company was later purchased by Dictaphone,
which was swallowed by Pitney-Bowes, and the
next version, the $15K Dual Display with a CRT,
never made it out.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/

Can Frame's default color definitions be changed? - a solution

[rebecca officer]

Hi Carol

You can use FM's Find/Change for this. 

First, back up your document. 

Then, in your document:
Define your new colour. 
Then click outside the text frame on any page, so you don't have a cursor in 
any text.
Then open Find/Change dialog and select Find >Character Format.
The Find Character Format dialog opens and should have everything set to As Is. 
Change the colour to Green and click Set.
Then select Change > To Character Format, make sure everything is set to As Is, 
select the new colour, and click Set. 
Then click the Change All button. All instances of Green will magically change 
to your new colour.

As long as everything is As Is apart from the colour, this'll leave all other 
formatting alone. If everything isn't set to As Is, it'll screw up other 
formatting. Back up first!

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> "Carol J. Elkins"  17/10/12 08:07 >>>
Nope, defining my own colors isn't an option in this case. Working in 
Frame9, I'm importing (not by reference but by creating a copy) an 
Excel file containing Excel's red strikeout and green colors to 
distinguish new and deleted text, so all resulting text is formatted 
as an override to Frame's Body tag. Tagging changed/deleted text in 
hundreds of pages of table rows isn't an option either, so I can't 
use a custom color definition. As Rick pointed out, it looks like 
Frame won't budge on its idea of what "green" is. Thanks everyone for 
your help.

Carol


At 12:14 PM 10/16/2012, you wrote:
>Forgive me for stating the obvious, but won't merely defining the 
>green you want as a custom color work for you?

**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celkins at awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

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Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Carol J. Elkins]

Does anyone know if it is possible to change the values of one of 
Framemaker's default color definitions? I'd like to make the Green 
less florescent by darkening it a bit. But when I select Green in the 
Color Definitions list and select a darker color, the Change button 
is dimmed (this only happens for the default colors). So changing any 
of the default colors from the UI doesn't seem to be an option. Any other way?


Carol

**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celk...@awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

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RE: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Carol,

The default colors in FrameMaker are marked internally as reserved and
can't be changed or deleted.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-283-5045
r...@frameexpert.com

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 2:03 PM
To: fram...@omsys.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

Does anyone know if it is possible to change the values of one of
Framemaker's default color definitions? I'd like to make the Green less
florescent by darkening it a bit. But when I select Green in the Color
Definitions list and select a darker color, the Change button is dimmed
(this only happens for the default colors). So changing any of the default
colors from the UI doesn't seem to be an option. Any other way?

Carol

**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celk...@awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***


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Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 12:03 -0600 16/10/12, Carol J. Elkins wrote:

Does anyone know if it is possible to change the values of one of Framemaker's 
default color definitions? I'd like to make the Green less florescent by 
darkening it a bit. But when I select Green in the Color Definitions list and 
select a darker color, the Change button is dimmed (this only happens for the 
default colors). So changing any of the default colors from the UI doesn't 
seem to be an option. Any other way?

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but won't merely defining the green you 
want as a custom color work for you?

-- 
Steve
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Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Carol J. Elkins]

Nope, defining my own colors isn't an option in this case. Working in 
Frame9, I'm importing (not by reference but by creating a copy) an 
Excel file containing Excel's red strikeout and green colors to 
distinguish new and deleted text, so all resulting text is formatted 
as an override to Frame's Body tag. Tagging changed/deleted text in 
hundreds of pages of table rows isn't an option either, so I can't 
use a custom color definition. As Rick pointed out, it looks like 
Frame won't budge on its idea of what green is. Thanks everyone for 
your help.


Carol


At 12:14 PM 10/16/2012, you wrote:
Forgive me for stating the obvious, but won't merely defining the 
green you want as a custom color work for you?


**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celk...@awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

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RE: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Harpreet Singh Seehra]

You can do this, make a new color definition and give it whatever  definition 
you want it to be(less florescent green) and use it.

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins
Sent: 16 October 2012 23:33
To: fram...@omsys.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

Does anyone know if it is possible to change the values of one of Framemaker's 
default color definitions? I'd like to make the Green less florescent by 
darkening it a bit. But when I select Green in the Color Definitions list and 
select a darker color, the Change button is dimmed (this only happens for the 
default colors). So changing any of the default colors from the UI doesn't seem 
to be an option. Any other way?

Carol

**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celk...@awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

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Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Alan T Litchfield]

I don't think this is what Carol was asking.

Yes, you can/should define a new colour if you want something different 
from the default, as a couple have said.


No, you cannot redefine the default colours and there is no reason to, 
because you can create new colours.


I suggest you read up on green, red and blue to see why they are default 
colours. Similarly with cyan, magenta, yellow, black and white.


Alan

On 17/10/12 7:23 AM, Harpreet Singh Seehra wrote:

You can do this, make a new color definition and give it whatever  definition 
you want it to be(less florescent green) and use it.

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins
Sent: 16 October 2012 23:33
To: fram...@omsys.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

Does anyone know if it is possible to change the values of one of Framemaker's 
default color definitions? I'd like to make the Green less florescent by 
darkening it a bit. But when I select Green in the Color Definitions list and 
select a darker color, the Change button is dimmed (this only happens for the 
default colors). So changing any of the default colors from the UI doesn't seem 
to be an option. Any other way?

Carol

**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celk...@awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

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RE: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Combs, Richard]

Alan T Litchfield wrote:
 
 No, you cannot redefine the default colours and there is no reason to,
 because you can create new colours.
 
 I suggest you read up on green, red and blue to see why they are
 default
 colours. Similarly with cyan, magenta, yellow, black and white.

Exactly. Those colors aren't defined as they are to suit someone's tastes; 
they're the standard colors of the RGB and CMYK color models. In the Color 
Definitions dialog, set Model to RGB. Now look at the definition of the color 
named Green -- it's 0% Red, 100% Green, 0% Blue. 

Wanting to redefine the default Green is like wanting to make picas a little 
smaller in your doc. :-) 

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--






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Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Matt Sullivan]

What's a pica?
(kidding, kidding)

…and for those that don't know, 12 points=1 pica, 6 picas=1 inch

-Matt

On Oct 16, 2012, at 2:07 PM, Combs, Richard richard.co...@polycom.com wrote:

 Alan T Litchfield wrote:
 
 No, you cannot redefine the default colours and there is no reason to,
 because you can create new colours.
 
 I suggest you read up on green, red and blue to see why they are
 default
 colours. Similarly with cyan, magenta, yellow, black and white.
 
 Exactly. Those colors aren't defined as they are to suit someone's tastes; 
 they're the standard colors of the RGB and CMYK color models. In the Color 
 Definitions dialog, set Model to RGB. Now look at the definition of the color 
 named Green -- it's 0% Red, 100% Green, 0% Blue. 
 
 Wanting to redefine the default Green is like wanting to make picas a little 
 smaller in your doc. :-) 
 
 Richard G. Combs
 Senior Technical Writer
 Polycom, Inc.
 richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
 303-223-5111
 --
 rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
 303-903-6372
 --
 
 
 
 
 
 
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RE: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Fred Ridder]

 What's a pica?
 (kidding, kidding)
 
 …and for those that don't know, 12 points=1 pica, 6 picas=1 inch

Umm, not exactly. (Or maybe not necessarily is more apt.) There are three 
definitions of the unit we know as a pica, and all of them are a little bit 
different.
 
The original definition is from 18th century France, where a pica was defined 
as 12 Didot points, which worked out to 12 x 0.376 mm = 4.512 mm.
 
The American definition was as a fraction of a foot: 0.013837 (or 1/72.27) to 
be exact. That works out to 4.2175 mm.
 
But the computer world likes rounder numbers, and the computer pica is 1/72 of 
a foot (specifically the metrically redefined foot of 1959), and that works out 
to 4.2... mm. 
 
And if you're talking about those wonderful, archaic devices known as 
typewriters, pica refers to a type size that is nominally 12 points tall and 
about 7.2 points wide, resulting in 10 characters to the horizontal inch. 
 
-Fred Ridder  ___


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Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Matt Sullivan]

Yes, but that's a bit too much for a unit that has fallen into disuse ;)

In all seriousness, though, since it sounds like you'd know, what's a Cicero??

-Matt

On Oct 16, 2012, at 4:50 PM, Fred Ridder docu...@hotmail.com wrote:

  What's a pica?
  (kidding, kidding)
  
  …and for those that don't know, 12 points=1 pica, 6 picas=1 inch
 
 Umm, not exactly. (Or maybe not necessarily is more apt.) There are three 
 definitions of the unit we know as a pica, and all of them are a little bit 
 different.
  
 The original definition is from 18th century France, where a pica was defined 
 as 12 Didot points, which worked out to 12 x 0.376 mm = 4.512 mm.
  
 The American definition was as a fraction of a foot: 0.013837 (or 1/72.27) to 
 be exact. That works out to 4.2175 mm.
  
 But the computer world likes rounder numbers, and the computer pica is 1/72 
 of a foot (specifically the metrically redefined foot of 1959), and that 
 works out to 4.2... mm. 
  
 And if you're talking about those wonderful, archaic devices known as 
 typewriters, pica refers to a type size that is nominally 12 points tall and 
 about 7.2 points wide, resulting in 10 characters to the horizontal inch. 
  
 -Fred Ridder

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Re: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:50:24 -0400, Fred Ridder 
docu...@hotmail.com wrote:

The American definition was as a fraction of a foot: 
0.013837 (or 1/72.27) to be exact. That works out 
to 4.2175 mm.
 
But the computer world likes rounder numbers, and the 
computer pica is 1/72 of a foot (specifically the 
metrically redefined foot of 1959), and that works out 
to 4.2... mm. 

The latter size, 6 picas per inch, we (typesetters)
in 1970 called the IBM pica, because it was invented
by IBM for the MTST (Magnetic Tape Selectric Typewriter),
the predecessor of the word processor.  I still have
both the steel pica sticks we used when specifying for
hot-metal (or foundry type) composition in real picas, 
and the one with the IBM logo for the MTST...  ;-)

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  jer...@omsys.comhttp://mif2go.com/
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Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Carol J. Elkins]

Does anyone know if it is possible to change the values of one of 
Framemaker's default color definitions? I'd like to make the Green 
less florescent by darkening it a bit. But when I select Green in the 
Color Definitions list and select a darker color, the Change button 
is dimmed (this only happens for the default colors). So changing any 
of the default colors from the UI doesn't seem to be an option. Any other way?

Carol

**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celkins at awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Carol,

The default colors in FrameMaker are marked internally as "reserved" and
can't be changed or deleted.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-283-5045
rick at frameexpert.com

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 2:03 PM
To: framers at omsys.com; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

Does anyone know if it is possible to change the values of one of
Framemaker's default color definitions? I'd like to make the Green less
florescent by darkening it a bit. But when I select Green in the Color
Definitions list and select a darker color, the Change button is dimmed
(this only happens for the default colors). So changing any of the default
colors from the UI doesn't seem to be an option. Any other way?

Carol

**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celkins at awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Carol J. Elkins]

Nope, defining my own colors isn't an option in this case. Working in 
Frame9, I'm importing (not by reference but by creating a copy) an 
Excel file containing Excel's red strikeout and green colors to 
distinguish new and deleted text, so all resulting text is formatted 
as an override to Frame's Body tag. Tagging changed/deleted text in 
hundreds of pages of table rows isn't an option either, so I can't 
use a custom color definition. As Rick pointed out, it looks like 
Frame won't budge on its idea of what "green" is. Thanks everyone for 
your help.

Carol


At 12:14 PM 10/16/2012, you wrote:
>Forgive me for stating the obvious, but won't merely defining the 
>green you want as a custom color work for you?

**
Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC
Making Information Understandable
Phone: 719-948-3773
mailto:celkins at awrittenword.com
http://www.awrittenword.com
***

Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Combs, Richard]

Alan T Litchfield wrote:

> No, you cannot redefine the default colours and there is no reason to,
> because you can create new colours.
> 
> I suggest you read up on green, red and blue to see why they are
> default
> colours. Similarly with cyan, magenta, yellow, black and white.

Exactly. Those colors aren't defined as they are to suit someone's tastes; 
they're the standard colors of the RGB and CMYK color models. In the Color 
Definitions dialog, set Model to RGB. Now look at the definition of the color 
named Green -- it's 0% Red, 100% Green, 0% Blue. 

Wanting to redefine the default Green is like wanting to make picas a little 
smaller in your doc. :-) 

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Matt Sullivan]

What's a pica?
(kidding, kidding)

?and for those that don't know, 12 points=1 pica, 6 picas=1 inch

-Matt

On Oct 16, 2012, at 2:07 PM, "Combs, Richard"  
wrote:

> Alan T Litchfield wrote:
> 
>> No, you cannot redefine the default colours and there is no reason to,
>> because you can create new colours.
>> 
>> I suggest you read up on green, red and blue to see why they are
>> default
>> colours. Similarly with cyan, magenta, yellow, black and white.
> 
> Exactly. Those colors aren't defined as they are to suit someone's tastes; 
> they're the standard colors of the RGB and CMYK color models. In the Color 
> Definitions dialog, set Model to RGB. Now look at the definition of the color 
> named Green -- it's 0% Red, 100% Green, 0% Blue. 
> 
> Wanting to redefine the default Green is like wanting to make picas a little 
> smaller in your doc. :-) 
> 
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> --
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as matt at mattrsullivan.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.com
> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Fred Ridder]

> What's a pica?
> (kidding, kidding)
> 
> ?and for those that don't know, 12 points=1 pica, 6 picas=1 inch

Umm, not exactly. (Or maybe "not necessarily" is more apt.) There are three 
definitions of the unit we know as a pica, and all of them are a little bit 
different.

The original definition is from 18th century France, where a pica was defined 
as 12 Didot points, which worked out to 12 x 0.376 mm = 4.512 mm.

The American definition was as a fraction of a foot: 0.013837 (or 1/72.27) to 
be exact. That works out to 4.2175 mm.

But the computer world likes rounder numbers, and the computer pica is 1/72 of 
a foot (specifically the metrically redefined foot of 1959), and that works out 
to 4.2... mm. 

And if you're talking about those wonderful, archaic devices known as 
typewriters, pica refers to a type size that is nominally 12 points tall and 
about 7.2 points wide, resulting in 10 characters to the horizontal inch. 

-Fred Ridder  
-- next part --
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URL: 

Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Matt Sullivan]

Yes, but that's a bit too much for a unit that has fallen into disuse ;)

In all seriousness, though, since it sounds like you'd know, what's a Cicero??

-Matt

On Oct 16, 2012, at 4:50 PM, Fred Ridder  wrote:

> > What's a pica?
> > (kidding, kidding)
> > 
> > ?and for those that don't know, 12 points=1 pica, 6 picas=1 inch
> 
> Umm, not exactly. (Or maybe "not necessarily" is more apt.) There are three 
> definitions of the unit we know as a pica, and all of them are a little bit 
> different.
>  
> The original definition is from 18th century France, where a pica was defined 
> as 12 Didot points, which worked out to 12 x 0.376 mm = 4.512 mm.
>  
> The American definition was as a fraction of a foot: 0.013837 (or 1/72.27) to 
> be exact. That works out to 4.2175 mm.
>  
> But the computer world likes rounder numbers, and the computer pica is 1/72 
> of a foot (specifically the metrically redefined foot of 1959), and that 
> works out to 4.2... mm. 
>  
> And if you're talking about those wonderful, archaic devices known as 
> typewriters, pica refers to a type size that is nominally 12 points tall and 
> about 7.2 points wide, resulting in 10 characters to the horizontal inch. 
>  
> -Fred Ridder

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

Can Frame's default color definitions be changed?

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:50:24 -0400, Fred Ridder 
 wrote:

>The American definition was as a fraction of a foot: 
>0.013837 (or 1/72.27) to be exact. That works out 
>to 4.2175 mm.
> 
>But the computer world likes rounder numbers, and the 
>computer pica is 1/72 of a foot (specifically the 
>metrically redefined foot of 1959), and that works out 
>to 4.2... mm. 

The latter size, 6 picas per inch, we (typesetters)
in 1970 called the "IBM pica", because it was invented
by IBM for the MTST (Magnetic Tape Selectric Typewriter),
the predecessor of the word processor.  I still have
both the steel pica sticks we used when specifying for
hot-metal (or foundry type) composition in "real picas", 
and the one with the IBM logo for the MTST...  ;-)

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/

RE: Cleaning up color definitions

[Gillian Flato]

George,

It didn't work. I got an error message.

-Gillian

From: Georg Eck [mailto:e...@squidds.de]
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 12:14 AM
To: Gillian Flato; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning up color definitions

Hi Gillian,

please test the feature: 'Formats' of TOOLBOX for FrameMaker 5 to 9 
(www.toolboxforme.comhttp://www.toolboxforme.com)
or Finalyser for FrameMaker 10 
(www.finalyser-shop.comhttp://www.finalyser-shop.com) you can delete the 
unused colors.
See online-help: 
http://www.finalyser.com/help/#page/Finalyser%2520Online-Help/formats.xml.07.1.html


-  Georg

Your questions:

Anyone know of a tool that allows you to clean up color definitions like 
BookVars cleans up variables?

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
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RE: Cleaning up color definitions

[Combs, Richard]

Gillian Flato wrote: 
 
 George,
 
 It didn't work. I got an error message.

You're much more likely to get a helpful response if you begin with: 

It didn't work. I got the following error message: ... 

:-)

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--






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Cleaning up color definitions

[Gillian Flato]

George,

It didn't work. I got an error message.

-Gillian

From: Georg Eck [mailto:e...@squidds.de]
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 12:14 AM
To: Gillian Flato; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Cleaning up color definitions

Hi Gillian,

please test the feature: 'Formats' of TOOLBOX for FrameMaker 5 to 9 
(www.toolboxforme.com<http://www.toolboxforme.com>)
or Finalyser for FrameMaker 10 
(www.finalyser-shop.com<http://www.finalyser-shop.com>) you can delete the 
unused colors.
See online-help: 
http://www.finalyser.com/help/#page/Finalyser%2520Online-Help/formats.xml.07.1.html


-  Georg

Your questions:

Anyone know of a tool that allows you to clean up color definitions like 
BookVars cleans up variables?

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
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Cleaning up color definitions

[Combs, Richard]

Gillian Flato wrote: 

> George,
> 
> It didn't work. I got an error message.

You're much more likely to get a helpful response if you begin with: 

"It didn't work. I got the following error message: ..." 

:-)

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

Re: Cleaning up color definitions

[Georg Eck]

Hi Gillian,

 

please test the feature: 'Formats' of TOOLBOX for FrameMaker 5 to 9
(www.toolboxforme.com)
or Finalyser for FrameMaker 10 (www.finalyser-shop.com) you can delete
the unused colors.

See online-help:
http://www.finalyser.com/help/#page/Finalyser%2520Online-Help/formats.xm
l.07.1.html

 

-  Georg

 

Your questions:

 

Anyone know of a tool that allows you to clean up color definitions like
BookVars cleans up variables?

 

Thank You,

 

Gillian Flato

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Cleaning up color definitions

[Georg Eck]

Hi Gillian,



please test the feature: 'Formats' of TOOLBOX for FrameMaker 5 to 9
(www.toolboxforme.com)
or Finalyser for FrameMaker 10 (www.finalyser-shop.com) you can delete
the unused colors.

See online-help:
http://www.finalyser.com/help/#page/Finalyser%2520Online-Help/formats.xm
l.07.1.html



-  Georg



Your questions:



Anyone know of a tool that allows you to clean up color definitions like
BookVars cleans up variables?



Thank You,



Gillian Flato

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Cleaning up color definitions - killing fm_gen colors in the MIF files

[rebecca officer]

Hi Gillian

Thought I'd put this onto the list too, in case other people have the same 
question.

To unlock colors, save as MIF, then search for the string:
 
and globally replace it with nothing.

When you open the file as a .fm again, Framemaker re-applies the 
ColorIsReserved attribute to the basic color set (red etc) but not to the 
fm_gen colors. This means you can use View>Color>Definitions to delete the 
fm_gen colors, though that's slow. 

Instead, you can just delete the fm_gen colors in the MIF by finding them in 
the ColorCatalog section and deleting them. You need to delete the whole 
definition for each color, which looks like this:

 
  
  
  
  
  
 > # end of Color
If you haven't got a huge number of files, this is pretty quick.

If you re-import CT formats from a clean template afterwards, FM will re-create 
the definitions it needs.

And the standard disclaimer: back up your files before you mess with MIFs!

Cheers
Rebecca


>>> Gillian Flato  4/07/12 10:16 >>>

Rebecca,
I would love to know how to unlock those fm_gen colors. I have hundreds of 
them. They are just junk littering my files.
Thanks,
Gillian


From: rebecca officer [mailto:rebecca.offi...@alliedtelesis.co.nz] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 3:12 PM
To: Gillian Flato
Subject: RE: Cleaning up color definitions



Hi Gillian



I've just looked up what we did and it was more complicated than I'd 
remembered. We were trying to clean out FM10's self-generated colours that it 
assigned to overlapping conditional text, and it turns out that FM locks those 
so you can't delete them. We started by doing search and replace on the MIF 
files to unlock the colours, then we ran a script.



I can look up more details if that sounds like the problem you're trying to 
solve, but our script was pretty rough and wouldn't be safe for anyone but us 
to use. The locked self-generated colours were a right pain until we worked out 
how to unlock them. That's not an issue unless you're using overlapping CT and 
want to change the CT indicator colours.



Cheers

Rebecca



>>> Gillian Flato  4/07/12 04:09 >>>
Rebecca,

Do you just manually delete the colors or do you use a script?

Thanks
-Gillian

-Original Message-
From: rebecca officer [mailto:rebecca.offi...@alliedtelesis.co.nz] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 3:00 AM
To: Gillian Flato
Subject: Re: Cleaning up color definitions

No, but we've done it pretty fast by editing MIF files. Let me know if you want 
more detail - I'm at home but can look it up tomorrow.

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> Gillian Flato  07/03/12 6:06 PM >>>
Anyone know of a tool that allows you to clean up color definitions like 
BookVars cleans up variables?

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com

[Description: os-oct]


NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential information intended 
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If you have received this message in error please notify Allied Telesis Labs 
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the views of Allied Telesis Labs.


NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential
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Re: Cleaning up color definitions

[Mike Wickham]

On 7/2/2012 1:39 PM, Gillian Flato wrote:


Anyone know of a tool that allows you to clean up color definitions 
like BookVars cleans up variables?





Check out Color Tools ($10):
http://www.siliconprairiesoftware.com/index.html

Mike Wickham

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RE: Cleaning up color definitions - killing fm_gen colors in the MIF files

[rebecca officer]

Hi Gillian
 
Thought I'd put this onto the list too, in case other people have the same 
question.
 
To unlock colors, save as MIF, then search for the string:
 ColorAttribute ColorIsReserved
and globally replace it with nothing.
 
When you open the file as a .fm again, Framemaker re-applies the 
ColorIsReserved attribute to the basic color set (red etc) but not to the 
fm_gen colors. This means you can use ViewColorDefinitions to delete the 
fm_gen colors, though that's slow. 
 
Instead, you can just delete the fm_gen colors in the MIF by finding them in 
the ColorCatalog section and deleting them. You need to delete the whole 
definition for each color, which looks like this:
 
 Color 
  ColorTag `fm_gen_147474'
  ColorCyan  50.00
  ColorMagenta  100.00
  ColorYellow  50.00
  ColorBlack  0.00
  ColorAttribute ColorIsReserved
  # end of Color
If you haven't got a huge number of files, this is pretty quick.
 
If you re-import CT formats from a clean template afterwards, FM will re-create 
the definitions it needs.
 
And the standard disclaimer: back up your files before you mess with MIFs!
 
Cheers
Rebecca


 Gillian Flato gillian.fl...@nexenta.com 4/07/12 10:16 

Rebecca,
I would love to know how to unlock those fm_gen colors. I have hundreds of 
them. They are just junk littering my files.
Thanks,
Gillian
 

From: rebecca officer [mailto:rebecca.offi...@alliedtelesis.co.nz] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 3:12 PM
To: Gillian Flato
Subject: RE: Cleaning up color definitions

 

Hi Gillian

 

I've just looked up what we did and it was more complicated than I'd 
remembered. We were trying to clean out FM10's self-generated colours that it 
assigned to overlapping conditional text, and it turns out that FM locks those 
so you can't delete them. We started by doing search and replace on the MIF 
files to unlock the colours, then we ran a script.

 

I can look up more details if that sounds like the problem you're trying to 
solve, but our script was pretty rough and wouldn't be safe for anyone but us 
to use. The locked self-generated colours were a right pain until we worked out 
how to unlock them. That's not an issue unless you're using overlapping CT and 
want to change the CT indicator colours.

 

Cheers

Rebecca



 Gillian Flato gillian.fl...@nexenta.com 4/07/12 04:09 
Rebecca,

Do you just manually delete the colors or do you use a script?

Thanks
-Gillian

-Original Message-
From: rebecca officer [mailto:rebecca.offi...@alliedtelesis.co.nz] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 3:00 AM
To: Gillian Flato
Subject: Re: Cleaning up color definitions

No, but we've done it pretty fast by editing MIF files. Let me know if you want 
more detail - I'm at home but can look it up tomorrow.

Cheers
Rebecca

 Gillian Flato gillian.fl...@nexenta.com 07/03/12 6:06 PM 
Anyone know of a tool that allows you to clean up color definitions like 
BookVars cleans up variables?

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
gillian.fl...@nexenta.com

[Description: os-oct]


NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential information intended 
only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended 
recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not 
disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it.
If you have received this message in error please notify Allied Telesis Labs 
Ltd immediately.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except 
where the sender has the authority to issue and specifically states them to be 
the views of Allied Telesis Labs.


NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee
named above. If you are not the intended recipient of
this message you are hereby notified that you must not
disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it.
If you have received this message in error please
notify Allied Telesis Labs Ltd immediately.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the
individual sender, except where the sender has the
authority to issue and specifically states them to
be the views of Allied Telesis Labs. 

NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential
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Cleaning up color definitions

[Mike Wickham]

On 7/2/2012 1:39 PM, Gillian Flato wrote:
>
> Anyone know of a tool that allows you to clean up color definitions 
> like BookVars cleans up variables?
>
>

Check out Color Tools ($10):
http://www.siliconprairiesoftware.com/index.html

Mike Wickham

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Cleaning up color definitions

[Gillian Flato]

Anyone know of a tool that allows you to clean up color definitions like 
BookVars cleans up variables?

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com

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RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Pinkham, Jim]

You're welcome. Discovering this technique put to rest a lot of
frustration with legacy docs for me.

Jim 

-Original Message-
From: mbrad...@techpubs.com [mailto:mbrad...@techpubs.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:40 PM
To: Pinkham, Jim
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

Dang! I did a MIF Wash using mif2go, and the RGB colors are gone. I love
it when software works.

Thanks for the tip!

= Mike B



  Original Message 
 Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
 From: Pinkham, Jim jim.pink...@voith.com
 Date: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:34 pm
 To: mbrad...@techpubs.com, framers@lists.frameusers.com
 
 
 Have you done a MIF wash on the files, Mike? If not, try the wash and 
 then repeat the Toolbox deletion step.
 
 HTH,
 Jim
 
 -Original Message-
 From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
 [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
 mbrad...@techpubs.com
 Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:31 PM
 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
 
 Windows XP Service Pack 3
 FrameMaker 8
 
 Hi,
 
 I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then 
 imported into FM more recently.
 
 In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for 
 the color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the 
 FM files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs,
either.
 The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the 
 Character Designer window. They are labeled RGB RGB_number, such 
 as RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply 
 doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
 
 It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a 
 unique way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we 
 can delete them?
 
 = Mike Bradley
   www.techpubs.com
 
 
 
 ___
 
 
 You are currently subscribed to Framers as jim.pink...@voith.com.
 
 Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.
 
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RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Mike Bradley]

This works, for sure. Thanks. Mif2go's MIF Wash might do nothing more than
automate the same process.

= Mike

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joy Kocar
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:56 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

I've had problems with color definitions and this really worked:
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/323/323771.html

Joy

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:30 PM, mbrad...@techpubs.com wrote:

 Windows XP Service Pack 3
 FrameMaker 8

 Hi,

 I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
 imported into FM more recently.

 In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
 color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
 files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
 The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
 Character Designer window. They are labeled RGB RGB_number, such as
 RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
 doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).

 It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
 way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
 delete them?

 = Mike Bradley
  www.techpubs.com



-- 
Joy Kocar, EIT
Technical Writer, Instructional Designer
www.maptek.com
+1-303-763-4919 ext 178
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RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Melanie Raney]

Mike,
If the bad colors are indeed from graphics with palette-based colors, the bad 
color definitions will likely reappear the next time you open the file. In that 
case, the real fix is to fix the graphics as Richard Combs suggested, and then 
do the mif wash.

Regards, Melanie Raney


-Original Message-
From: mbrad...@techpubs.com [mailto:mbrad...@techpubs.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:40 PM
To: Pinkham,Jim
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

Dang! I did a MIF Wash using mif2go, and the RGB colors are gone. I love
it when software works.

Thanks for the tip!

= Mike B



  Original Message 
 Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
 From: Pinkham, Jim jim.pink...@voith.com
 Date: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:34 pm
 To: mbrad...@techpubs.com, framers@lists.frameusers.com
 
 
 Have you done a MIF wash on the files, Mike? If not, try the wash and
 then repeat the Toolbox deletion step.
 
 HTH,
 Jim 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
 [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of
 mbrad...@techpubs.com
 Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:31 PM
 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
 
 Windows XP Service Pack 3
 FrameMaker 8
 
 Hi, 
 
 I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
 imported into FM more recently.
 
 In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
 color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
 files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
 The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
 Character Designer window. They are labeled RGB RGB_number, such as
 RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
 doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
 
 It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
 way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
 delete them?
 
 = Mike Bradley
   www.techpubs.com
 
 
 
 ___
 
 
 You are currently subscribed to Framers as jim.pink...@voith.com.
 
 Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.
 
 To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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Re: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:07:02 -0800, Mike Bradley 
mbrad...@techpubs.com wrote:

This works, for sure. Thanks. Mif2go's MIF Wash might 
do nothing more than automate the same process.

No, MIF Wash does *not* do these two steps:
 4. Choose View  Color  Definitions.
 5. From the Name pop-up menu, choose the
color definition. Click Delete. 

All MIF Wash does is save as MIF and re-open,
then save as .fm binary.  The main advantages 
over doing that manually are speed and the
fact that using the Shift-File menu, you can 
do a whole book in one operation.

You don't always have to delete the color
definition; if it's an artifact, the MIF
Wash process will remove it.  If it is 
really there, as a result of a PNG, you
can fix the PNG as Richard Combs advised, 
then do MIF Wash again.

Note that MIF Wash is usable in the demo
version of Mif2Go; you do not need to buy
Mif2Go to use it, just install the demo:
  http://www.omsys.com/dcl/download.htm

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  jer...@omsys.com  http://www.omsys.com/
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FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Pinkham, Jim]

You're welcome. Discovering this technique put to rest a lot of
frustration with legacy docs for me.

Jim 

-Original Message-
From: mbradley at techpubs.com [mailto:mbrad...@techpubs.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:40 PM
To: Pinkham, Jim
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

Dang! I did a MIF Wash using mif2go, and the RGB colors are gone. I love
it when software works.

Thanks for the tip!

= Mike B



>  Original Message 
> Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
> From: "Pinkham, Jim" 
> Date: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:34 pm
> To: , 
> 
> 
> Have you done a MIF wash on the files, Mike? If not, try the wash and 
> then repeat the Toolbox deletion step.
> 
> HTH,
> Jim
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
> mbradley at techpubs.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:31 PM
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
> 
> Windows XP Service Pack 3
> FrameMaker 8
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then 
> imported into FM more recently.
> 
> In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for 
> the color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the 
> FM files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs,
either.
> The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the 
> Character Designer window. They are labeled "RGB ", such 
> as RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply 
> doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
> 
> It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a 
> unique way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we 
> can delete them?
> 
> = Mike Bradley
>   www.techpubs.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as jim.pinkham at voith.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
>
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> com
> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit 
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Mike Bradley]

This works, for sure. Thanks. Mif2go's MIF Wash might do nothing more than
automate the same process.

= Mike

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Joy Kocar
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:56 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

I've had problems with color definitions and this really worked:
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/323/323771.html

Joy

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:30 PM,  wrote:

> Windows XP Service Pack 3
> FrameMaker 8
>
> Hi,
>
> I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
> imported into FM more recently.
>
> In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
> color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
> files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
> The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
> Character Designer window. They are labeled "RGB ", such as
> RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
> doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
>
> It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
> way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
> delete them?
>
> = Mike Bradley
>  www.techpubs.com
>
>

-- 
Joy Kocar, EIT
Technical Writer, Instructional Designer
www.maptek.com
+1-303-763-4919 ext 178
___


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FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Melanie Raney]

Mike,
If the bad colors are indeed from graphics with palette-based colors, the bad 
color definitions will likely reappear the next time you open the file. In that 
case, the real fix is to fix the graphics as Richard Combs suggested, and then 
do the mif wash.

Regards, Melanie Raney


-Original Message-
From: mbradley at techpubs.com [mailto:mbrad...@techpubs.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:40 PM
To: Pinkham,Jim
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

Dang! I did a MIF Wash using mif2go, and the RGB colors are gone. I love
it when software works.

Thanks for the tip!

= Mike B



>  Original Message 
> Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
> From: "Pinkham, Jim" 
> Date: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:34 pm
> To: , 
> 
> 
> Have you done a MIF wash on the files, Mike? If not, try the wash and
> then repeat the Toolbox deletion step.
> 
> HTH,
> Jim 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of
> mbradley at techpubs.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:31 PM
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
> 
> Windows XP Service Pack 3
> FrameMaker 8
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
> imported into FM more recently.
> 
> In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
> color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
> files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
> The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
> Character Designer window. They are labeled "RGB ", such as
> RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
> doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
> 
> It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
> way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
> delete them?
> 
> = Mike Bradley
>   www.techpubs.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
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FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:07:02 -0800, "Mike Bradley" 
 wrote:

>This works, for sure. Thanks. Mif2go's MIF Wash might 
>do nothing more than automate the same process.

No, MIF Wash does *not* do these two steps:
 4. Choose View > Color > Definitions.
 5. From the Name pop-up menu, choose the
color definition. Click Delete. 

All MIF Wash does is save as MIF and re-open,
then save as .fm binary.  The main advantages 
over doing that manually are speed and the
fact that using the Shift-File menu, you can 
do a whole book in one operation.

You don't always have to delete the color
definition; if it's an artifact, the MIF
Wash process will remove it.  If it is 
really there, as a result of a PNG, you
can fix the PNG as Richard Combs advised, 
then do MIF Wash again.

Note that MIF Wash is usable in the demo
version of Mif2Go; you do not need to buy
Mif2Go to use it, just install the demo:
  http://www.omsys.com/dcl/download.htm

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
http://www.omsys.com/

FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[mbradley]

Windows XP Service Pack 3
FrameMaker 8

Hi, 

I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
imported into FM more recently.

In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
Character Designer window. They are labeled RGB RGB_number, such as
RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).

It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
delete them?

= Mike Bradley
  www.techpubs.com



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RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Pinkham, Jim]

Have you done a MIF wash on the files, Mike? If not, try the wash and
then repeat the Toolbox deletion step.

HTH,
Jim 

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of
mbrad...@techpubs.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:31 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

Windows XP Service Pack 3
FrameMaker 8

Hi, 

I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
imported into FM more recently.

In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
Character Designer window. They are labeled RGB RGB_number, such as
RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).

It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
delete them?

= Mike Bradley
  www.techpubs.com



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RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[mbradley]

Oh, and I looked in the MIF file for the colors and they aren't there!

= Mike Bradley


 I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
 imported into FM more recently.
 
 In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
 color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
 files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
 The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
 Character Designer window. They are labeled RGB RGB_number, such as
 RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
 doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).


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RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Combs, Richard]

mbrad...@techpubs.com wrote:
 
 I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
 imported into FM more recently.
 
 In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for
the
 color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
 files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs,
either.
 The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
 Character Designer window. They are labeled RGB RGB_number, such
as
 RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
 doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
 
 It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a
unique
 way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
 delete them?

Those colors don't come from Word as such, they come from 256-color PNG
graphics files. Each color defined in the palette is named according to
its RGB values, and each palette-based graphic can add up to 256 such
colors to your FM file. 

The solution is to open the PNGs in an appropriate graphics app and save
them as 24-bit color (16.7 million colors) instead of palette-based (256
colors). The size increase is surprisingly small. 

It's been a while since I had that issue (and Word wasn't implicated in
any way), so I don't recall whether, once the offending graphics are
gone, the colors disappear after saving or whether some other step
(MIF-wash, maybe) was necessary. 

HTH!

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--





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RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[mbradley]

Dang! I did a MIF Wash using mif2go, and the RGB colors are gone. I love
it when software works.

Thanks for the tip!

= Mike B



  Original Message 
 Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
 From: Pinkham, Jim jim.pink...@voith.com
 Date: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:34 pm
 To: mbrad...@techpubs.com, framers@lists.frameusers.com
 
 
 Have you done a MIF wash on the files, Mike? If not, try the wash and
 then repeat the Toolbox deletion step.
 
 HTH,
 Jim 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
 [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of
 mbrad...@techpubs.com
 Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:31 PM
 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
 
 Windows XP Service Pack 3
 FrameMaker 8
 
 Hi, 
 
 I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
 imported into FM more recently.
 
 In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
 color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
 files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
 The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
 Character Designer window. They are labeled RGB RGB_number, such as
 RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
 doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
 
 It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
 way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
 delete them?
 
 = Mike Bradley
   www.techpubs.com
 
 
 
 ___
 
 
 You are currently subscribed to Framers as jim.pink...@voith.com.
 
 Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.
 
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 com
 
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RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Fred Ridder]

 

Absolutely correct. Which is why a MIF wash works as an easy way to get rid of 
the color definitions. Now that you've got the MIF file(s), open *that* file 
from FrameMaker and then do a Save As to convert it back to FrameMaker binary 
format.

 

-Fred Ridder
 
 From: mbrad...@techpubs.com
 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:45:03 -0700
 
 Oh, and I looked in the MIF file for the colors and they aren't there!
 
 = Mike Bradley
 
 
  I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
  imported into FM more recently.
  
  In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
  color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
  files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
  The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
  Character Designer window. They are labeled RGB RGB_number, such as
  RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
  doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
 
 
 ___
 
 
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 Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.
 
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 framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Joy Kocar]

I've had problems with color definitions and this really worked:
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/323/323771.html

Joy

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:30 PM, mbrad...@techpubs.com wrote:

 Windows XP Service Pack 3
 FrameMaker 8

 Hi,

 I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
 imported into FM more recently.

 In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
 color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
 files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
 The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
 Character Designer window. They are labeled RGB RGB_number, such as
 RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
 doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).

 It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
 way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
 delete them?

 = Mike Bradley
  www.techpubs.com



-- 
Joy Kocar, EIT
Technical Writer, Instructional Designer
www.maptek.com
+1-303-763-4919 ext 178
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FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[mbrad...@techpubs.com]

Windows XP Service Pack 3
FrameMaker 8

Hi, 

I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
imported into FM more recently.

In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
Character Designer window. They are labeled "RGB ", such as
RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).

It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
delete them?

= Mike Bradley
  www.techpubs.com

FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Pinkham, Jim]

Have you done a MIF wash on the files, Mike? If not, try the wash and
then repeat the Toolbox deletion step.

HTH,
Jim 

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of
mbradley at techpubs.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:31 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

Windows XP Service Pack 3
FrameMaker 8

Hi, 

I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
imported into FM more recently.

In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
Character Designer window. They are labeled "RGB ", such as
RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).

It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
delete them?

= Mike Bradley
  www.techpubs.com



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FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[mbrad...@techpubs.com]

Oh, and I looked in the MIF file for the colors and they aren't there!

= Mike Bradley


> I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
> imported into FM more recently.
> 
> In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
> color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
> files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
> The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
> Character Designer window. They are labeled "RGB ", such as
> RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
> doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).

FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Combs, Richard]

mbradley at techpubs.com wrote:

> I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
> imported into FM more recently.
> 
> In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for
the
> color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
> files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs,
either.
> The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
> Character Designer window. They are labeled "RGB ", such
as
> RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
> doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
> 
> It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a
unique
> way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
> delete them?

Those colors don't come from Word as such, they come from 256-color PNG
graphics files. Each color defined in the palette is named according to
its RGB values, and each palette-based graphic can add up to 256 such
colors to your FM file. 

The solution is to open the PNGs in an appropriate graphics app and save
them as 24-bit color (16.7 million colors) instead of palette-based (256
colors). The size increase is surprisingly small. 

It's been a while since I had that issue (and Word wasn't implicated in
any way), so I don't recall whether, once the offending graphics are
gone, the colors disappear after saving or whether some other step
(MIF-wash, maybe) was necessary. 

HTH!

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[mbrad...@techpubs.com]

Dang! I did a MIF Wash using mif2go, and the RGB colors are gone. I love
it when software works.

Thanks for the tip!

= Mike B



>  Original Message 
> Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
> From: "Pinkham, Jim" 
> Date: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:34 pm
> To: , 
> 
> 
> Have you done a MIF wash on the files, Mike? If not, try the wash and
> then repeat the Toolbox deletion step.
> 
> HTH,
> Jim 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of
> mbradley at techpubs.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:31 PM
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
> 
> Windows XP Service Pack 3
> FrameMaker 8
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
> imported into FM more recently.
> 
> In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
> color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
> files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
> The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
> Character Designer window. They are labeled "RGB ", such as
> RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
> doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
> 
> It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
> way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
> delete them?
> 
> = Mike Bradley
>   www.techpubs.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as jim.pinkham at voith.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jim.pinkham%40voith.
> com
> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Fred Ridder]

Absolutely correct. Which is why a MIF wash works as an easy way to get rid of 
the color definitions. Now that you've got the MIF file(s), open *that* file 
from FrameMaker and then do a Save As to convert it back to FrameMaker binary 
format.



-Fred Ridder

> From: mbradley at techpubs.com
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: RE: FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions
> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:45:03 -0700
> 
> Oh, and I looked in the MIF file for the colors and they aren't there!
> 
> = Mike Bradley
> 
> 
> > I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
> > imported into FM more recently.
> > 
> > In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
> > color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
> > files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
> > The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
> > Character Designer window. They are labeled "RGB ", such as
> > RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
> > doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as DocuDoc at hotmail.com.
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> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
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FM 8 - Can't Delete Color Definitions

[Joy Kocar]

I've had problems with color definitions and this really worked:
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/323/323771.html

Joy

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:30 PM,  wrote:

> Windows XP Service Pack 3
> FrameMaker 8
>
> Hi,
>
> I have some FM files that were created in Word some time ago, then
> imported into FM more recently.
>
> In FM, we were able to remove all the artifacts from Word except for the
> color definitions. We are not using any of the Word colors in the FM
> files, but we can't delete them from the files' color catalogs, either.
> The colors are listed in the Color Definitions window and in the
> Character Designer window. They are labeled "RGB ", such as
> RGB 177,197,218. The usual FM procedure for deleting colors simply
> doesn't work; nor did Toolbox (it threw errors -17 and 12).
>
> It appears that the Word colors are embedded in the FM files in a unique
> way that prevents them from being deleted. Any ideas on how we can
> delete them?
>
> = Mike Bradley
>  www.techpubs.com
>
>

-- 
Joy Kocar, EIT
Technical Writer, Instructional Designer
www.maptek.com
+1-303-763-4919 ext 178

RE: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Fred Ridder]

Jack DeLand wrote:
 I have inherited some docs that have a huge number (dozens) of color 
 definitions, all in RGB values. I want to edit these down to about 10 
 entries that I actually need. Is there a fast and easy way to do this?
 
If these are colors with names something like RGB256,256,256, they 
are likely to be artifacts from inserting graphics (I think it was only one
particular file format and had something to do with the color depth, but 
that doesn't really matter in this context), and the easiest way to get 
rid of them is to use the MIF filters to wash the document. Use Save As 
to save the file in MIF format, then open the MIF file and use Save As to 
re-save it in .fm format. Or if you have a lot of files to clean, you might
want to download and install the demo version of Mif2Go and use the 
Wash Via MIF command that the tool adds to FrameMaker's File menu.
 
-Fred Ridder
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Re: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Art Campbell]

Jack,

The most likely reason for this is that the files contain PNG files that are
24-bit. There's some kind of bug in Frame that inherits these color
definitions, but it doesn't seem to be hurtful, just messy. If you do have
PNGs in use, even if you clean up the definitions, they'll repopulate. To
fix this, all you need to do is resave the PNG in Photoshop or another
editor and knock the bit depth down to 8. You can also save them out as a
different file format, but then you'd have to change all the file names in
the FM docs, which is a large pain.

If you don't have PNGs, or after you fix them, you can prune the number of
color definitions down (although, again, they aren't hurting anything).

The slick/easy way to do this is with ITL's ReplaceColors FrameScript. It's
a freeby (http://www.itl.eu/108.0.html?L=1), but you do need FrameScript
from Finite Matters (www.framescript.com) to run it.

Another way to do it is to use the CleanImport plug-in and specify a
template with only the colors you use.
http://www.electropubs.com/ez_cleanimport.html

Art

Art Campbell
 art.campb...@gmail.com
 ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a
redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
  DoD 358


On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Jack DeLand jdela...@comcast.net wrote:

 I have inherited some docs that have a huge number (dozens) of color
 definitions, all in RGB values.  I want to edit these down to about 10
 entries that I actually need.  Is there a fast and easy way to do this?
 TIA

 --
 Jack DeLand :: member, information architecture institute :: 734.629.7890
 :: www.jackdeland.com

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RE: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Mike Feimster]

snip
Change your 8-bit PNGs to 24-bit. (There's surprisingly little increase
in size, in my experience.)
/snip

I did some testing once and created two documents, where the only
difference was one doc had an 8-bit png inported by reference and the
other had a 16-bit png imported by reference. When I generated PDFs, the
PDF with the 8-bit png was actually bigger.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Combs,
Richard
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 1:24 PM
To: jdela...@comcast.net; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

Fred Ridder wrote:
 
 Jack DeLand wrote:
  I have inherited some docs that have a huge number (dozens) of color

  definitions, all in RGB values. I want to edit these down to about
10
  entries that I actually need. Is there a fast and easy way to do
this?
 
 If these are colors with names something like RGB256,256,256, they 
 are likely to be artifacts from inserting graphics (I think it was
only one
 particular file format and had something to do with the color depth,
but
 that doesn't really matter in this context), and the easiest way to
get
 rid of them is to use the MIF filters to wash the document. Use Save
As
 to save the file in MIF format, then open the MIF file and use Save As
to
 re-save it in .fm format. Or if you have a lot of files to clean, you
might
 want to download and install the demo version of Mif2Go and use the 
 Wash Via MIF command that the tool adds to FrameMaker's File menu.

The source of these is 256-color (8-bit) PNGs. FM adds each of the
colors defined in such a PNG's color palette to its color definitions
list.

As I was writing this, Art responded. No, full-color (24-bit) PNGs
_can't_ cause this problem -- they don't _contain_ a list of color
definitions. In 24-bit graphics, each pixel can have any RGB value (8
bits each for R, G, and B equals 24 bits), so there is no limited
universe of pre-defined colors. 

_Only_ the 256-color (8-bit) PNGs cause the problem. With only 8 bits
per pixel, these graphics can't use just any combination of R, G, and B
-- they're limited to a palette of 256 defined colors. It's these
RGB-value specifications that you see in FM. 

Art is correct that you have to remove the offending graphics to
eliminate the problem, but you need to do the _reverse_ of what he said.
Change your 8-bit PNGs to 24-bit. (There's surprisingly little increase
in size, in my experience.) 

Once the 8-bit graphics are gone, Fred's suggestion of a MIF wash should
remove the RGB color definitions. 

HTH!
Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--





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Re: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Jack DeLand]

Thanks very much, Fred.  I had no clue as to where all these things had 
come from.

Fred Ridder wrote:
 use the MIF filters to wash the document. Use Save As
-- 
Jack DeLand :: member, information architecture institute :: 734.629.7890 :: 
www.jackdeland.com

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Re: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Art Campbell]

Richard's correction is right on. I was writing quickly and got the source
and destination catawumpus somewhere between my frontal lobes and
keyboard...

Art

Art Campbell
 art.campb...@gmail.com
 ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a
redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
  DoD 358


On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Combs, Richard
richard.co...@polycom.comwrote:

 Fred Ridder wrote:

  Jack DeLand wrote:
   I have inherited some docs that have a huge number (dozens) of color
   definitions, all in RGB values. I want to edit these down to about
 10
   entries that I actually need. Is there a fast and easy way to do
 this?
 
  If these are colors with names something like RGB256,256,256, they
  are likely to be artifacts from inserting graphics (I think it was
 only one
  particular file format and had something to do with the color depth,
 but
  that doesn't really matter in this context), and the easiest way to
 get
  rid of them is to use the MIF filters to wash the document. Use Save
 As
  to save the file in MIF format, then open the MIF file and use Save As
 to
  re-save it in .fm format. Or if you have a lot of files to clean, you
 might
  want to download and install the demo version of Mif2Go and use the
  Wash Via MIF command that the tool adds to FrameMaker's File menu.

 The source of these is 256-color (8-bit) PNGs. FM adds each of the
 colors defined in such a PNG's color palette to its color definitions
 list.

 As I was writing this, Art responded. No, full-color (24-bit) PNGs
 _can't_ cause this problem -- they don't _contain_ a list of color
 definitions. In 24-bit graphics, each pixel can have any RGB value (8
 bits each for R, G, and B equals 24 bits), so there is no limited
 universe of pre-defined colors.

 _Only_ the 256-color (8-bit) PNGs cause the problem. With only 8 bits
 per pixel, these graphics can't use just any combination of R, G, and B
 -- they're limited to a palette of 256 defined colors. It's these
 RGB-value specifications that you see in FM.

 Art is correct that you have to remove the offending graphics to
 eliminate the problem, but you need to do the _reverse_ of what he said.
 Change your 8-bit PNGs to 24-bit. (There's surprisingly little increase
 in size, in my experience.)

 Once the 8-bit graphics are gone, Fred's suggestion of a MIF wash should
 remove the RGB color definitions.

 HTH!
 Richard


 Richard G. Combs
 Senior Technical Writer
 Polycom, Inc.
 richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
 303-223-5111
 --
 rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
 303-777-0436
 --





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RE: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Combs, Richard]

Fred Ridder wrote:
 
 Jack DeLand wrote:
  I have inherited some docs that have a huge number (dozens) of color
  definitions, all in RGB values. I want to edit these down to about
10
  entries that I actually need. Is there a fast and easy way to do
this?
 
 If these are colors with names something like RGB256,256,256, they
 are likely to be artifacts from inserting graphics (I think it was
only one
 particular file format and had something to do with the color depth,
but
 that doesn't really matter in this context), and the easiest way to
get
 rid of them is to use the MIF filters to wash the document. Use Save
As
 to save the file in MIF format, then open the MIF file and use Save As
to
 re-save it in .fm format. Or if you have a lot of files to clean, you
might
 want to download and install the demo version of Mif2Go and use the
 Wash Via MIF command that the tool adds to FrameMaker's File menu.

The source of these is 256-color (8-bit) PNGs. FM adds each of the
colors defined in such a PNG's color palette to its color definitions
list.

As I was writing this, Art responded. No, full-color (24-bit) PNGs
_can't_ cause this problem -- they don't _contain_ a list of color
definitions. In 24-bit graphics, each pixel can have any RGB value (8
bits each for R, G, and B equals 24 bits), so there is no limited
universe of pre-defined colors. 

_Only_ the 256-color (8-bit) PNGs cause the problem. With only 8 bits
per pixel, these graphics can't use just any combination of R, G, and B
-- they're limited to a palette of 256 defined colors. It's these
RGB-value specifications that you see in FM. 

Art is correct that you have to remove the offending graphics to
eliminate the problem, but you need to do the _reverse_ of what he said.
Change your 8-bit PNGs to 24-bit. (There's surprisingly little increase
in size, in my experience.) 

Once the 8-bit graphics are gone, Fred's suggestion of a MIF wash should
remove the RGB color definitions. 

HTH!
Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--





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RE: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Fred Ridder]

Mike Feimster wrote:
 
 I did some testing once and created two documents, where the only
 difference was one doc had an 8-bit png inported by reference and the
 other had a 16-bit png imported by reference. When I generated PDFs, the
 PDF with the 8-bit png was actually bigger.
 
I seem to recall that one or two versions of Acrobat had a specific 
problem with 8-bit PNGs that resulted in unnecessarily large PDF file
sizes, so that might have been a contributing factor in your test
since you don't mention the version you were using at the time.
 
-FR
 
 
 
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RE: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Mike Feimster]

It was either 7.1 or 7.2.
 
Mike




From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docu...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:38 PM
To: Mike Feimster; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?


Mike Feimster wrote:
 
 I did some testing once and created two documents, where the
only
 difference was one doc had an 8-bit png inported by reference
and the
 other had a 16-bit png imported by reference. When I generated
PDFs, the
 PDF with the 8-bit png was actually bigger.
 
I seem to recall that one or two versions of Acrobat had a
specific 
problem with 8-bit PNGs that resulted in unnecessarily large PDF
file
sizes, so that might have been a contributing factor in your
test
since you don't mention the version you were using at the time.
 
-FR
 
 

 


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Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Jack DeLand]

I have inherited some docs that have a huge number (dozens) of color 
definitions, all in RGB values.  I want to edit these down to about 10 
entries that I actually need.  Is there a fast and easy way to do this?
TIA

-- 
Jack DeLand :: member, information architecture institute :: 734.629.7890 :: 
www.jackdeland.com

Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Fred Ridder]

Jack DeLand wrote:
> I have inherited some docs that have a huge number (dozens) of color 
> definitions, all in RGB values. I want to edit these down to about 10 
> entries that I actually need. Is there a fast and easy way to do this?

If these are colors with names something like "RGB256,256,256", they 
are likely to be artifacts from inserting graphics (I think it was only one
particular file format and had something to do with the color depth, but 
that doesn't really matter in this context), and the easiest way to get 
rid of them is to use the MIF filters to "wash" the document. Use Save As 
to save the file in MIF format, then open the MIF file and use Save As to 
re-save it in .fm format. Or if you have a lot of files to clean, you might
want to download and install the demo version of Mif2Go and use the 
"Wash Via MIF" command that the tool adds to FrameMaker's File menu.

-Fred Ridder

Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Art Campbell]

Jack,

The most likely reason for this is that the files contain PNG files that are
24-bit. There's some kind of bug in Frame that inherits these color
definitions, but it doesn't seem to be hurtful, just messy. If you do have
PNGs in use, even if you clean up the definitions, they'll repopulate. To
fix this, all you need to do is resave the PNG in Photoshop or another
editor and knock the bit depth down to 8. You can also save them out as a
different file format, but then you'd have to change all the file names in
the FM docs, which is a large pain.

If you don't have PNGs, or after you fix them, you can prune the number of
color definitions down (although, again, they aren't hurting anything).

The slick/easy way to do this is with ITL's ReplaceColors FrameScript. It's
a freeby (http://www.itl.eu/108.0.html?=1), but you do need FrameScript
from Finite Matters (www.framescript.com) to run it.

Another way to do it is to use the CleanImport plug-in and specify a
template with only the colors you use.
http://www.electropubs.com/ez_cleanimport.html

Art

Art Campbell
 art.campbell at gmail.com
 "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a
redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
  DoD 358


On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Jack DeLand  wrote:

> I have inherited some docs that have a huge number (dozens) of color
> definitions, all in RGB values.  I want to edit these down to about 10
> entries that I actually need.  Is there a fast and easy way to do this?
> TIA
>
> --
> Jack DeLand :: member, information architecture institute :: 734.629.7890
> :: www.jackdeland.com
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Combs, Richard]

Fred Ridder wrote:

> Jack DeLand wrote:
> > I have inherited some docs that have a huge number (dozens) of color
> > definitions, all in RGB values. I want to edit these down to about
10
> > entries that I actually need. Is there a fast and easy way to do
this?
> 
> If these are colors with names something like "RGB256,256,256", they
> are likely to be artifacts from inserting graphics (I think it was
only one
> particular file format and had something to do with the color depth,
but
> that doesn't really matter in this context), and the easiest way to
get
> rid of them is to use the MIF filters to "wash" the document. Use Save
As
> to save the file in MIF format, then open the MIF file and use Save As
to
> re-save it in .fm format. Or if you have a lot of files to clean, you
might
> want to download and install the demo version of Mif2Go and use the
> "Wash Via MIF" command that the tool adds to FrameMaker's File menu.

The source of these is 256-color (8-bit) PNGs. FM adds each of the
colors defined in such a PNG's color palette to its color definitions
list.

As I was writing this, Art responded. No, full-color (24-bit) PNGs
_can't_ cause this problem -- they don't _contain_ a list of color
definitions. In 24-bit graphics, each pixel can have any RGB value (8
bits each for R, G, and B equals 24 bits), so there is no limited
universe of pre-defined colors. 

_Only_ the 256-color (8-bit) PNGs cause the problem. With only 8 bits
per pixel, these graphics can't use just any combination of R, G, and B
-- they're limited to a palette of 256 defined colors. It's these
RGB-value specifications that you see in FM. 

Art is correct that you have to remove the offending graphics to
eliminate the problem, but you need to do the _reverse_ of what he said.
Change your 8-bit PNGs to 24-bit. (There's surprisingly little increase
in size, in my experience.) 

Once the 8-bit graphics are gone, Fred's suggestion of a MIF wash should
remove the RGB color definitions. 

HTH!
Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Jack DeLand]

Thanks very much, Fred.  I had no clue as to where all these things had 
come from.

Fred Ridder wrote:
> use the MIF filters to "wash" the document. Use Save As
-- 
Jack DeLand :: member, information architecture institute :: 734.629.7890 :: 
www.jackdeland.com

Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Mike Feimster]

Change your 8-bit PNGs to 24-bit. (There's surprisingly little increase
in size, in my experience.)


I did some testing once and created two documents, where the only
difference was one doc had an 8-bit png inported by reference and the
other had a 16-bit png imported by reference. When I generated PDFs, the
PDF with the 8-bit png was actually bigger.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Combs,
Richard
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 1:24 PM
To: jdeland1 at comcast.net; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

Fred Ridder wrote:

> Jack DeLand wrote:
> > I have inherited some docs that have a huge number (dozens) of color

> > definitions, all in RGB values. I want to edit these down to about
10
> > entries that I actually need. Is there a fast and easy way to do
this?
> 
> If these are colors with names something like "RGB256,256,256", they 
> are likely to be artifacts from inserting graphics (I think it was
only one
> particular file format and had something to do with the color depth,
but
> that doesn't really matter in this context), and the easiest way to
get
> rid of them is to use the MIF filters to "wash" the document. Use Save
As
> to save the file in MIF format, then open the MIF file and use Save As
to
> re-save it in .fm format. Or if you have a lot of files to clean, you
might
> want to download and install the demo version of Mif2Go and use the 
> "Wash Via MIF" command that the tool adds to FrameMaker's File menu.

The source of these is 256-color (8-bit) PNGs. FM adds each of the
colors defined in such a PNG's color palette to its color definitions
list.

As I was writing this, Art responded. No, full-color (24-bit) PNGs
_can't_ cause this problem -- they don't _contain_ a list of color
definitions. In 24-bit graphics, each pixel can have any RGB value (8
bits each for R, G, and B equals 24 bits), so there is no limited
universe of pre-defined colors. 

_Only_ the 256-color (8-bit) PNGs cause the problem. With only 8 bits
per pixel, these graphics can't use just any combination of R, G, and B
-- they're limited to a palette of 256 defined colors. It's these
RGB-value specifications that you see in FM. 

Art is correct that you have to remove the offending graphics to
eliminate the problem, but you need to do the _reverse_ of what he said.
Change your 8-bit PNGs to 24-bit. (There's surprisingly little increase
in size, in my experience.) 

Once the 8-bit graphics are gone, Fred's suggestion of a MIF wash should
remove the RGB color definitions. 

HTH!
Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--





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Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Art Campbell]

Richard's correction is right on. I was writing quickly and got the source
and destination catawumpus somewhere between my frontal lobes and
keyboard...

Art

Art Campbell
 art.campbell at gmail.com
 "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a
redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
  DoD 358


On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Combs, Richard
wrote:

> Fred Ridder wrote:
>
> > Jack DeLand wrote:
> > > I have inherited some docs that have a huge number (dozens) of color
> > > definitions, all in RGB values. I want to edit these down to about
> 10
> > > entries that I actually need. Is there a fast and easy way to do
> this?
> >
> > If these are colors with names something like "RGB256,256,256", they
> > are likely to be artifacts from inserting graphics (I think it was
> only one
> > particular file format and had something to do with the color depth,
> but
> > that doesn't really matter in this context), and the easiest way to
> get
> > rid of them is to use the MIF filters to "wash" the document. Use Save
> As
> > to save the file in MIF format, then open the MIF file and use Save As
> to
> > re-save it in .fm format. Or if you have a lot of files to clean, you
> might
> > want to download and install the demo version of Mif2Go and use the
> > "Wash Via MIF" command that the tool adds to FrameMaker's File menu.
>
> The source of these is 256-color (8-bit) PNGs. FM adds each of the
> colors defined in such a PNG's color palette to its color definitions
> list.
>
> As I was writing this, Art responded. No, full-color (24-bit) PNGs
> _can't_ cause this problem -- they don't _contain_ a list of color
> definitions. In 24-bit graphics, each pixel can have any RGB value (8
> bits each for R, G, and B equals 24 bits), so there is no limited
> universe of pre-defined colors.
>
> _Only_ the 256-color (8-bit) PNGs cause the problem. With only 8 bits
> per pixel, these graphics can't use just any combination of R, G, and B
> -- they're limited to a palette of 256 defined colors. It's these
> RGB-value specifications that you see in FM.
>
> Art is correct that you have to remove the offending graphics to
> eliminate the problem, but you need to do the _reverse_ of what he said.
> Change your 8-bit PNGs to 24-bit. (There's surprisingly little increase
> in size, in my experience.)
>
> Once the 8-bit graphics are gone, Fred's suggestion of a MIF wash should
> remove the RGB color definitions.
>
> HTH!
> Richard
>
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> --
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-777-0436
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
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>
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Fred Ridder]

Mike Feimster wrote:

> I did some testing once and created two documents, where the only
> difference was one doc had an 8-bit png inported by reference and the
> other had a 16-bit png imported by reference. When I generated PDFs, the
> PDF with the 8-bit png was actually bigger.

I seem to recall that one or two versions of Acrobat had a specific 
problem with 8-bit PNGs that resulted in unnecessarily large PDF file
sizes, so that might have been a contributing factor in your test
since you don't mention the version you were using at the time.

-FR

Reduce Number of Color Definitions?

[Mike Feimster]

It was either 7.1 or 7.2.

Mike




From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docudoc at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:38 PM
To: Mike Feimster; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Reduce Number of Color Definitions?


Mike Feimster wrote:

> I did some testing once and created two documents, where the
only
> difference was one doc had an 8-bit png inported by reference
and the
> other had a 16-bit png imported by reference. When I generated
PDFs, the
> PDF with the 8-bit png was actually bigger.

I seem to recall that one or two versions of Acrobat had a
specific 
problem with 8-bit PNGs that resulted in unnecessarily large PDF
file
sizes, so that might have been a contributing factor in your
test
since you don't mention the version you were using at the time.

-FR

RGB Color Definitions

[Jacob Schäffer]

See http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/whitepaper_difficult_pdf_documents.html 
for an explanation.

Best regards / Med venlig hilsen
Jacob Sch?ffer  |  Chief Developer
Paradis All? 22, Raml?se
DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark
Phone: +45 4439 4400
Email: js at grafikhuset.dk
Web: www.grafikhuset.net



> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] P? vegne af Howard Rauch
> Sendt: 3. december 2008 22:02
> Til: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Emne: RGB Color Definitions
> 
> 
> The individual files in a book have a varying number of RGB 
> color definitions. I want to delete those for several 
> reasons, one being that the printer wants only CMYK colors. 
> None of the RGB colors are used (that I know of), but every 
> time I try to delete an RGB color, Frame restores it again. 
> The only color used in my files is a spot color -- Pantone 
> 131. Does anyone have a suggestion for getting rid of the RGB colors?
> 
> FrameMaker 7.0p576; Windows XP Professional 
> 
> Howard Rauch
> 
> Technology Transfer, Inc.
> "Linking Creators and Users of Technology"
> 933 North 18th Street
> Manitowoc WI 54220
> Office: 920-682-1528
> Cell: 920-629-0080 ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as js at grafikhuset.dk.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/js%40grafi
khuset.dk

Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit 
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RGB Color Definitions

[Howard Rauch]

The individual files in a book have a varying number of RGB color definitions. 
I want to delete those for several reasons, one being that the printer wants 
only CMYK colors. None of the RGB colors are used (that I know of), but every 
time I try to delete an RGB color, Frame restores it again. The only color used 
in my files is a spot color -- Pantone 131. Does anyone have a suggestion for 
getting rid of the RGB colors?

FrameMaker 7.0p576; Windows XP Professional 

Howard Rauch

Technology Transfer, Inc.
Linking Creators and Users of Technology
933 North 18th Street
Manitowoc WI 54220
Office: 920-682-1528
Cell: 920-629-0080
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Re: RGB Color Definitions

[Art Campbell]

First, I'd give the printer a press quality PDF set up to yield the
cmyk (by default) and be done with it. That's what the PDF capability
is for...

FM doesn't support Pantone colors directly... it builds an
approximation with CMYK or RGB colors, which may be why they keep
reappearing. Another posibility is that you have PNG graphic files in
the FM book, and the colors are coming from those. In either case, the
RGB definitions are not hurting anything, so you don't buy yourself
anything by struggling to delete them.

If you want to try another tactic, create a new blank file and delete
the color definitions from it. Then use the Clean Import plug-in to
delete the existing definitions.

Art

Art Campbell
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52
Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358



On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Howard Rauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The individual files in a book have a varying number of RGB color 
 definitions. I want to delete those for several reasons, one being that the 
 printer wants only CMYK colors. None of the RGB colors are used (that I know 
 of), but every time I try to delete an RGB color, Frame restores it again. 
 The only color used in my files is a spot color -- Pantone 131. Does anyone 
 have a suggestion for getting rid of the RGB colors?

 FrameMaker 7.0p576; Windows XP Professional

 Howard Rauch

 Technology Transfer, Inc.
 Linking Creators and Users of Technology
 933 North 18th Street
 Manitowoc WI 54220
 Office: 920-682-1528
 Cell: 920-629-0080
 ___


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RE: RGB Color Definitions

[Jacob Schäffer]

See http://www.grafikhuset.net/publipdf/whitepaper_difficult_pdf_documents.html 
for an explanation.

Best regards / Med venlig hilsen
Jacob Schäffer  |  Chief Developer
Paradis Allé 22, Ramløse
DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark
Phone: +45 4439 4400
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.grafikhuset.net



 -Oprindelig meddelelse-
 Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Howard Rauch
 Sendt: 3. december 2008 22:02
 Til: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Emne: RGB Color Definitions
 
 
 The individual files in a book have a varying number of RGB 
 color definitions. I want to delete those for several 
 reasons, one being that the printer wants only CMYK colors. 
 None of the RGB colors are used (that I know of), but every 
 time I try to delete an RGB color, Frame restores it again. 
 The only color used in my files is a spot color -- Pantone 
 131. Does anyone have a suggestion for getting rid of the RGB colors?
 
 FrameMaker 7.0p576; Windows XP Professional 
 
 Howard Rauch
 
 Technology Transfer, Inc.
 Linking Creators and Users of Technology
 933 North 18th Street
 Manitowoc WI 54220
 Office: 920-682-1528
 Cell: 920-629-0080 ___
 
 
 You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 or visit 
 http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/js%40grafi
khuset.dk

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RGB Color Definitions

[Howard Rauch]

The individual files in a book have a varying number of RGB color definitions. 
I want to delete those for several reasons, one being that the printer wants 
only CMYK colors. None of the RGB colors are used (that I know of), but every 
time I try to delete an RGB color, Frame restores it again. The only color used 
in my files is a spot color -- Pantone 131. Does anyone have a suggestion for 
getting rid of the RGB colors?

FrameMaker 7.0p576; Windows XP Professional 

Howard Rauch

Technology Transfer, Inc.
"Linking Creators and Users of Technology"
933 North 18th Street
Manitowoc WI 54220
Office: 920-682-1528
Cell: 920-629-0080

RGB Color Definitions

[Art Campbell]

First, I'd give the printer a press quality PDF set up to yield the
cmyk (by default) and be done with it. That's what the PDF capability
is for...

FM doesn't support Pantone colors directly... it builds an
approximation with CMYK or RGB colors, which may be why they keep
reappearing. Another posibility is that you have PNG graphic files in
the FM book, and the colors are coming from those. In either case, the
RGB definitions are not hurting anything, so you don't buy yourself
anything by struggling to delete them.

If you want to try another tactic, create a new blank file and delete
the color definitions from it. Then use the Clean Import plug-in to
delete the existing definitions.

Art

Art Campbell
  art.campbell at gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52
Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358



On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Howard Rauch  
wrote:
> The individual files in a book have a varying number of RGB color 
> definitions. I want to delete those for several reasons, one being that the 
> printer wants only CMYK colors. None of the RGB colors are used (that I know 
> of), but every time I try to delete an RGB color, Frame restores it again. 
> The only color used in my files is a spot color -- Pantone 131. Does anyone 
> have a suggestion for getting rid of the RGB colors?
>
> FrameMaker 7.0p576; Windows XP Professional
>
> Howard Rauch
>
> Technology Transfer, Inc.
> "Linking Creators and Users of Technology"
> 933 North 18th Street
> Manitowoc WI 54220
> Office: 920-682-1528
> Cell: 920-629-0080
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

Deleting Color Definitions

[Howard Rauch]

Frame 7.0p76
Windows XP
I am creating a template for the third version of a catalog that is to be 
printed in grayscale and one spot color. Since the catalog has involved quite a 
number of drafts to establish the layout and has gradually evolved over time, 
it has a goodly number of useless RGB and CMYK color definitions. Although 
these appear to be harmless and are, for the most part, labeled Don't Print, 
I would prefer to delete them, particularly since the catalog is commercially 
printed and the printing firm setup crew complains about the RGB color 
definitions. Besides, in my view, they unnecessarily consume resources.
I have attempted to delete these colors (View/Color/Definitions), but they are 
not eliminated after I delete them. A message thet they are being used in the 
template also does not appear. What am I overlooking?
Howard Rauch

Technology Transfer, Inc.
Linking Creators and Users of Technology
933 North 18th Street
Manitowoc WI 54220
Office: 920-682-1528
Cell: 920-629-0080
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RE: Deleting Color Definitions

[Lester C. Smalley]

The extra colors are used in some graphic(s) in the template that uses an 
'indexed color' model instead of a full true color palette.  This could be a 
logo on a master page, icons on reference pages, etc.

If the output is to be grayscale and one spot color, replace any images with 
grayscale equivalents if at all possible.  Or get true color versions of the 
images, which do not add items to Frame's color catalog.

Once you have replaced the images, you either will not see the extra color 
definitions, or can readily deleted those not wanted in the production version 
of the template.

On Friday, July 11, 2008 10:41, Howard Rauch wrote:
 
| Frame 7.0p76
| Windows XP
| I am creating a template for the third version of a catalog that is
| to be printed in grayscale and one spot color. Since the catalog has
| involved quite a number of drafts to establish the layout and has
| gradually evolved over time, it has a goodly number of useless RGB
| and CMYK color definitions. Although these appear to be harmless
| and are, for the most part, labeled Don't Print, I would prefer
| to delete them, particularly since the catalog is commercially
| printed and the printing firm setup crew complains about the RGB
| color definitions. Besides, in my view, they unnecessarily consume
| resources.
|
| I have attempted to delete these colors (View/Color/Definitions),
| but they are not eliminated after I delete them. A message that
| they are being used in the template also does not appear. What
| am I overlooking?
|
| Howard Rauch

- Lester 
---
Lester C. Smalley   lsmalley AT infocon DOT com 
Information Consultants, Inc.   302-239-2942 FAX: 302-239-1712  
Yorklyn, DE  19736  www.infocon.com 
---
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RE: Deleting Color Definitions

[Combs, Richard]

Howard Rauch wrote:


 I am creating a template for the third version of a catalog that is to be
 printed in grayscale and one spot color. Since the catalog has involved
 quite a number of drafts to establish the layout and has gradually evolved
 over time, it has a goodly number of useless RGB and CMYK color
 definitions. Although these appear to be harmless and are, for the most
 part, labeled Don't Print, I would prefer to delete them, particularly
 since the catalog is commercially printed and the printing firm setup
 crew complains about the RGB color definitions. Besides, in my view, they
 unnecessarily consume resources.
 I have attempted to delete these colors (View/Color/Definitions), but they
 are not eliminated after I delete them. A message thet they are being used
 in the template also does not appear. What am I overlooking?
 Howard Rauch

Lester is probably right about the source of the colors. We had some docs that 
contained 256-color PNGs, and those added hundreds of RGB x, y, z colors. 

We replaced the graphics with 24-bit (true color) PNGs, and then ran a script 
to delete the RGB colors, but they wouldn't go away. What got rid of them was a 
MIF wash (save FM file as MIF, open that, and save back to FM). 

HTH!
Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--






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RE: Deleting Color Definitions

[Combs, Richard]

I said:

 We replaced the graphics with 24-bit (true color) PNGs, and then ran
a
 script to delete the RGB colors, but they wouldn't go away. What got
rid of
 them was a MIF wash (save FM file as MIF, open that, and save back
to
 FM).

I should have added that, IIRC, the deleting first wasn't even
necessary. Once the offending graphics were gone, the MIF wash alone got
rid of the RGB colors. 

Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--






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Deleting Color Definitions

[Howard Rauch]

Frame 7.0p76
Windows XP
I am creating a template for?the third version of a catalog that is to be 
printed in grayscale and one spot color. Since the catalog?has involved quite a 
number of drafts to establish the layout and has gradually evolved over time, 
it has?a goodly number of useless RGB and CMYK color definitions. Although 
these?appear to be harmless and are, for the most part, labeled "Don't Print," 
I would prefer to delete them, particularly since the catalog is commercially 
printed and the printing firm setup crew?complains about the RGB color 
definitions. Besides, in my view, they unnecessarily consume resources.
I have attempted to delete these colors (View/Color/Definitions), but they are 
not eliminated after I delete them. A message thet they are being used in the 
template also does not appear. What am I overlooking?
Howard Rauch

Technology Transfer, Inc.
"Linking Creators and Users of Technology"
933 North 18th Street
Manitowoc WI 54220
Office: 920-682-1528
Cell: 920-629-0080

Deleting Color Definitions

[Lester C. Smalley]

The "extra" colors are used in some graphic(s) in the template that uses an 
'indexed color' model instead of a full true color palette.  This could be a 
logo on a master page, icons on reference pages, etc.

If the output is to be grayscale and one spot color, replace any images with 
grayscale equivalents if at all possible.  Or get true color versions of the 
images, which do not add items to Frame's color catalog.

Once you have replaced the images, you either will not see the extra color 
definitions, or can readily deleted those not wanted in the production version 
of the template.

On Friday, July 11, 2008 10:41, Howard Rauch wrote:

| Frame 7.0p76
| Windows XP
| I am creating a template for?the third version of a catalog that is
| to be printed in grayscale and one spot color. Since the catalog?has
| involved quite a number of drafts to establish the layout and has
| gradually evolved over time, it has?a goodly number of useless RGB
| and CMYK color definitions. Although these?appear to be harmless
| and are, for the most part, labeled "Don't Print," I would prefer
| to delete them, particularly since the catalog is commercially
| printed and the printing firm setup crew?complains about the RGB
| color definitions. Besides, in my view, they unnecessarily consume
| resources.
|
| I have attempted to delete these colors (View/Color/Definitions),
| but they are not eliminated after I delete them. A message that
| they are being used in the template also does not appear. What
| am I overlooking?
|
| Howard Rauch

- Lester 
---
Lester C. Smalley   lsmalley AT infocon DOT com 
Information Consultants, Inc.   302-239-2942 FAX: 302-239-1712  
Yorklyn, DE  19736  www.infocon.com 
---

Deleting Color Definitions

[Combs, Richard]

Howard Rauch wrote:


> I am creating a template for?the third version of a catalog that is to be
> printed in grayscale and one spot color. Since the catalog?has involved
> quite a number of drafts to establish the layout and has gradually evolved
> over time, it has?a goodly number of useless RGB and CMYK color
> definitions. Although these?appear to be harmless and are, for the most
> part, labeled "Don't Print," I would prefer to delete them, particularly
> since the catalog is commercially printed and the printing firm setup
> crew?complains about the RGB color definitions. Besides, in my view, they
> unnecessarily consume resources.
> I have attempted to delete these colors (View/Color/Definitions), but they
> are not eliminated after I delete them. A message thet they are being used
> in the template also does not appear. What am I overlooking?
> Howard Rauch

Lester is probably right about the source of the colors. We had some docs that 
contained 256-color PNGs, and those added hundreds of "RGB x, y, z" colors. 

We replaced the graphics with 24-bit ("true color") PNGs, and then ran a script 
to delete the RGB colors, but they wouldn't go away. What got rid of them was a 
"MIF wash" (save FM file as MIF, open that, and save back to FM). 

HTH!
Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

Deleting Color Definitions

[Combs, Richard]

I said:

> We replaced the graphics with 24-bit ("true color") PNGs, and then ran
a
> script to delete the RGB colors, but they wouldn't go away. What got
rid of
> them was a "MIF wash" (save FM file as MIF, open that, and save back
to
> FM).

I should have added that, IIRC, the deleting first wasn't even
necessary. Once the offending graphics were gone, the MIF wash alone got
rid of the RGB colors. 

Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

Re: Multiple RGB color definitions

[Terry Smith]

PNG is a great format for screen captures and other bitmap images. It's
small, and it works well in both print and online output. However, if
the wrong settings are used for saving the PNGs, the FrameMaker color
catalog becomes bloated with RGB color definitions. (Okay, the settings
aren't really wrong, just problematic for us FrameMaker users who don't
want to scroll through zee-billion RGB color definitions.)

To fix the problem:

1 Open in a graphics program and resave the PNGs; make sure you don't
subset the colors. In other words, don't select any options such as
optimize and be sure to save in the highest number of colors that the
graphics program lists as an option.

(The PNGs are imported by reference, yes? If not, you'll need to
reimport them.)

2 Save the FrameMaker file as MIF to clean out the unneeded RGB color
definitions.

3 Open the MIF file and save it back to FM format.

-Terry Smith




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Multiple RGB color definitions

[Terry Smith]

PNG is a great format for screen captures and other bitmap images. It's
small, and it works well in both print and online output. However, if
the "wrong" settings are used for saving the PNGs, the FrameMaker color
catalog becomes bloated with RGB color definitions. (Okay, the settings
aren't really wrong, just problematic for us FrameMaker users who don't
want to scroll through zee-billion RGB color definitions.)

To fix the problem:

1 Open in a graphics program and resave the PNGs; make sure you don't
subset the colors. In other words, don't select any options such as
"optimize" and be sure to save in the highest number of colors that the
graphics program lists as an option.

(The PNGs are imported by reference, yes? If not, you'll need to
reimport them.)

2 Save the FrameMaker file as MIF to clean out the unneeded RGB color
definitions.

3 Open the MIF file and save it back to FM format.

-Terry Smith

Multiple RGB color definitions

[Steve Rickaby]

I have these in a template I am trying to purify, due no doubt to PNG  graphics 
'pollution'. In the past the following solutions have been offered:

. Shlomo Perets: save as .mif, re-open and re-save as .fm

. Richard Combs: Find the PNG graphic lurking in your file and convert it to 
something else.

. Bernard Aschwanden: Create a new FrameMaker document, import everything 
except the color definitions, then copy/paste the contents.

The first does not work for me with this file for some reason, and as for the 
second, there is no imported PNG file in the template, although the book from 
which the template is extracted does contain PNG graphics.

The third method does work for me.

Posted in case this is of use to anyone else. I am certainly not intending to 
denigrate the first two methods, which I am sure do work under the correct 
circumstances. Which I seem not to have.

-- 
Steve
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