Re: Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
Hi Wayne, I am sorry to correct you, but I have been doing Windows (and Mac) FrameMaker automation for the last 8 years with FrameScript, including complex FrameMaker to PDF workflows. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com Is there a more automated way to create PDFs from 53 FrameMaker books? Or is there a quicker way to set up this process from FrameMaker? Are there any programs that could help automate these processes? Do your companies hold any best practices that we could benefit from? I know people are probably tired of hearing this, but... Yes this can be done, but painlessly, but only on a Mac. Using AppleScript, it is possible to automate this. I just checked FM 7's AppleScript dictionary and I was surprised at how many things were scriptable. One of the things Apple has never been good at doing is promoting AppleScript, but it is still one of the best ways to automate many tasks because it can be used to automate and move data between several products. So, if you have a Mac, you're in luck. If not, then I don't have a good answer for you. FYI, scripting the PDF part would involve more of the Finder operations than FrameMaker's. -Wayne ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
At 9:39 AM -0400 4/28/06, Loren R. Elks wrote: Our company currently has a documentation set of 53 FrameMaker books that we PDF for easy access. We create PDFs using the TimeSavers utility to preserve link integrity. To do this we first have to open each book separately. Then we must run UPDATE BOOK on each FrameMaker book. Each book must then be saved as an individual PDF file. Is there a more automated way to create PDFs from 53 FrameMaker books? Or is there a quicker way to set up this process from FrameMaker? Are there any programs that could help automate these processes? Do your companies hold any best practices that we could benefit from? You didn't say what platform you were on. If you were on a Mac then it's an easy thing to do with AppleScript. You can automate all sorts of FrameMaker tasks with AppleScript, including this. - web ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
On 28 Apr 2006, at 16:49, Bill Briggs wrote: You didn't say what platform you were on. If you were on a Mac then it's an easy thing to do with AppleScript. You can automate all sorts of FrameMaker tasks with AppleScript, including this. Hey, I was going to say that ;-) We use AppleScript, which eats this type of repetitive task for breakfast. Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
Wayne, No scripting language is painless; I have enough AppleScript experience to know that AppleScript is no exception. Although Mac users already have AppleScript, it will take some effort for them to learn how to use it, just like they would with FrameScript. I am not anti-Mac or pro-PC, but the tone I detected in your post was that if the original poster didn't have a Mac, he was out of luck. I realize that you didn't say that exactly, but that was how I read it. I am sorry if I read you wrong. Rick Rick: My comment if you read it was that you can do it painlessly with AppleScript. A scripting language that many people use and write in. I also said ...if not, I don't have a good answer for you. That wasn't to say there weren't options. But with the exception of a few people on the FM lists, FrameScript is not something you will find most people have A) access to or B) knowledge of how to program. And that in my opinion is what separates the Mac and Windows platform. I can use AS as a shell to shuttle data across many applications (including some that don't truly support AS), I can also call AWK and shell scripts from within an AS and pipe the results into it. This makes it very much more versatile than FrameScript for some tasks. And this is why a lot of us who still use FM on the Mac are very reluctant to move over to the Windows platform, and why we scream when Adobe keeps telling us that we need to either use Windows or the Solaris version of FM. Neither is a true replacement and will never be. -Wayne ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
Wayne Brissette wrote: My comment if you read it was that you can do it painlessly with AppleScript. A scripting language that many people use and write in. I also said ...if not, I don't have a good answer for you. That wasn't to say there weren't options. But with the exception of a few people on the FM lists, FrameScript is not something you will find most people have A) access to or B) knowledge of how to program. And that in my opinion is what separates the Mac and Windows platform. I Jeez. Apple has a _tiny_percentage_ of the personal computer market, and only a _miniscule_sliver_ of that small number of Mac owners are also FM users. It seems rather a stretch, therefore, to claim that many people can program FM with AppleScript, while dismissing FrameScript, FrameAC, and other solutions; to insist that it can be done painlessly... only on a Mac; and to crow that if you have a Mac, you're in luck. If not, then I don't have a good answer for you. Macs seem like really nice machines to me, but I've developed something of a negative attitude toward them, and I blame all the arrogant, smugly superior, one true way Mac-heads (who, more often than not, aren't nearly as knowledgeable as they believe). Curmudgeons 'r Us Richard -- Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
At 6:37 PM +0100 4/28/06, Steve Rickaby wrote: AppleScript is niche, FrameScript is niche. Writing AppleScript for FrameMaker is as nichy as it gets. I know maybe half a dozen people who use AppleScript with FrameMaker. I think all but one of them is on this list. And it's truly a pity that it is so niche. And it's a pity because the stuff you can do with it in terms of workflow are truly awesome. Just as an example, I wrote a manuscript cleaner once to clean up and apply a template to documents I was setting for the local government. It reduced a 6 hour manual job (even if you knew all of the ways to speed up the cleanup with global changes, etc) into a double click. The script cleaned a 100 page manuscript in about 15 minutes. There were about 30 tests run on each paragraph (fixed the punctuation of latinisms, turned double hyphens to proper dashes, deleted empty paragraphs, turned manually numbered paragraphs into proper autonumbered lists, etc.), and in the end there was very little manual work to do cleaning up tables. It even applied the template to the raw text file. You've got to love something that does this. Took three hours to write the script, so it saved three hours the first time it was used. But AppleScript's interapplication communication is its big benefit. And whoever said that Apple doesn't do enough to promote it is right. I write scripts every day of life, and have saved myself thousands of hours of manual drudgery in the process. The UNIX shell and the ability of AppleScript to run shell scripts and process stdout has only magnified that power exponentially. Most Mac users I know are blissfully ignorant of both of these things (AppleScript and the UNIX shell). I can't imagine how they get anything done. I'd go crazy doing things manually that I see people doing on their Macs every day. Okay. I'm going home to have a beer. - web ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
Hi Loren... Have you tried DoBatch or DZBatcher? http://www.telecable.es/personales/cud/cssIndex.htm http://www.datazone.com/english/overview/download.html If neither of these do the trick (or you want something specific for your files/process), a FrameScript or custom FDK plugin, can do what you need. ...scott Scott Prentice Leximation, Inc. www.leximation.com +1.415.485.1892 Loren R. Elks wrote: >Our company currently has a documentation set of 53 FrameMaker books that we >PDF for easy access. We create PDFs using the TimeSavers utility to preserve >link integrity. To do this we first have to open each book separately. Then we >must run UPDATE BOOK on each FrameMaker book. Each book must then be saved as >an individual PDF file. > >Is there a more automated way to create PDFs from 53 FrameMaker books? Or is >there a quicker way to set up this process from FrameMaker? Are there any >programs that could help automate these processes? Do your companies hold any >best practices that we could benefit from? > >Loren Elks > "The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing." - John Powell > > > >
Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
Hi Wayne, I am sorry to correct you, but I have been doing Windows (and Mac) FrameMaker automation for the last 8 years with FrameScript, including complex FrameMaker to PDF workflows. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com >> Is there a more automated way to create PDFs from 53 FrameMaker >> books? Or is there a quicker way to set up this process from >> FrameMaker? Are there any programs that could help automate these >> processes? Do your companies hold any best practices that we could >> benefit from? > > I know people are probably tired of hearing this, but... Yes this can be > done, but painlessly, but only on a Mac. Using AppleScript, it is possible > to automate this. I just checked FM 7's AppleScript dictionary and I was > surprised at how many things were scriptable. One of the things Apple has > never been good at doing is promoting AppleScript, but it is still one of > the best ways to automate many tasks because it can be used to automate > and move data between several products. > > So, if you have a Mac, you're in luck. If not, then I don't have a good > answer for you. FYI, scripting the PDF part would involve more of the > Finder operations than FrameMaker's. > > -Wayne
Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
At 9:39 AM -0400 4/28/06, Loren R. Elks wrote: >Our company currently has a documentation set of 53 FrameMaker books that we >PDF for easy access. We create PDFs using the TimeSavers utility to preserve >link integrity. To do this we first have to open each book separately. Then we >must run UPDATE BOOK on each FrameMaker book. Each book must then be saved as >an individual PDF file. > >Is there a more automated way to create PDFs from 53 FrameMaker books? Or is >there a quicker way to set up this process from FrameMaker? Are there any >programs that could help automate these processes? Do your companies hold any >best practices that we could benefit from? You didn't say what platform you were on. If you were on a Mac then it's an easy thing to do with AppleScript. You can automate all sorts of FrameMaker tasks with AppleScript, including this. - web
Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
>>>Is there a more automated way to create PDFs from 53 FrameMaker >>>books? Or is there a quicker way to set up this process from >>>FrameMaker? Are there any programs that could help automate these >>>processes? Do your companies hold any best practices that we could >>>benefit from? >> >>I know people are probably tired of hearing this, but... Yes this can be >>done, but painlessly, but only on a Mac. Rick has already addressed this, but FrameScript on either platform can do it. >> Using AppleScript, it is possible to automate this. I just checked FM 7's >> AppleScript dictionary and I was surprised at how many things were >> scriptable. Everything in the application's object model is scriptable. But it's not all rosy in the AppleScript and FrameMaker world. There are some bugs in the AppleScript implementation that are truly annoying. And with the arrival of FrameMaker 7 there was a tendency for the application to bail on perfectly good code and say that it encountered an error. It would run the code sometimes, then just give up on it another. This required a quit and restart of FrameMaker. Version 5.5.6 and version 6 were not subject to this inexplicable failing with AppleScripts. I'd go on with the list of AppleScript shortcomings, but Adobe isn't going to fix them, so it's a waste of electrons. Bugs and irritants notwithstanding, it's possible to do really amazing things with FrameMaker and AppleScript. >>One of the things Apple has never been good at doing is promoting >>AppleScript, but it is still one of the best ways to automate many tasks >>because it can be used to automate and move data between several products. This is certainly AppleScript's great strength. - web
Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
Wayne, No scripting language is "painless"; I have enough AppleScript experience to know that AppleScript is no exception. Although Mac users already have AppleScript, it will take some effort for them to learn how to use it, just like they would with FrameScript. I am not anti-Mac or pro-PC, but the tone I detected in your post was that if the original poster didn't have a Mac, he was out of luck. I realize that you didn't say that exactly, but that was how I read it. I am sorry if I read you wrong. Rick Rick: My comment if you read it was that you can do it painlessly with AppleScript. A scripting language that many people use and write in. I also said "...if not, I don't have a good answer for you." That wasn't to say there weren't options. But with the exception of a few people on the FM lists, FrameScript is not something you will find most people have A) access to or B) knowledge of how to program. And that in my opinion is what separates the Mac and Windows platform. I can use AS as a shell to shuttle data across many applications (including some that don't truly support AS), I can also call AWK and shell scripts from within an AS and pipe the results into it. This makes it very much more versatile than FrameScript for some tasks. And this is why a lot of us who still use FM on the Mac are very reluctant to move over to the Windows platform, and why we scream when Adobe keeps telling us that we need to either use Windows or the Solaris version of FM. Neither is a true replacement and will never be. -Wayne
Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
On 28 Apr 2006, at 16:59, Bill Briggs wrote: > This is certainly AppleScript's great strength. With Mac OS X, you can probably do the job with a UNIX script? Now where's that terminal... Open "/Applications/FrameMaker 7.0" foo.fm Paul
Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
Wayne Brissette wrote: > My comment if you read it was that you can do it painlessly > with AppleScript. A scripting language that many people use > and write in. I also said "...if not, I don't have a good > answer for you." That wasn't to say there weren't options. > But with the exception of a few people on the FM lists, > FrameScript is not something you will find most people have > A) access to or B) knowledge of how to program. And that in > my opinion is what separates the Mac and Windows platform. I Jeez. Apple has a _tiny_percentage_ of the personal computer market, and only a _miniscule_sliver_ of that small number of Mac owners are also FM users. It seems rather a stretch, therefore, to claim that "many people" can program FM with AppleScript, while dismissing FrameScript, FrameAC, and other solutions; to insist that it can be done "painlessly... only on a Mac"; and to crow that "if you have a Mac, you're in luck. If not, then I don't have a good answer for you." Macs seem like really nice machines to me, but I've developed something of a negative attitude toward them, and I blame all the arrogant, smugly superior, "one true way" Mac-heads (who, more often than not, aren't nearly as knowledgeable as they believe). Curmudgeons 'r Us Richard -- Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 --
Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
At 11:20 -0600 28/4/06, Richard 'Curmudgeons 'r Us' Combs wrote: >Jeez. Apple has a _tiny_percentage_ of the personal computer market, Currently about 2.3 percent, but we're getting there ;-) >and only a _miniscule_sliver_ of that small number of Mac owners are also FM >users. Not sure 'bout that, but probably true. I'm glad I'm some sort of rarity. >It seems rather a stretch, therefore, to claim that "many people" can >program FM with AppleScript, while dismissing FrameScript, FrameAC, and >other solutions; to insist that it can be done "painlessly... only on a >Mac"; and to crow that "if you have a Mac, you're in luck. If not, then >I don't have a good answer for you." Sadly, I have to agree with this ;-) >Macs seem like really nice machines to me, but I've developed something >of a negative attitude toward them, and I blame all the arrogant, smugly >superior, "one true way" Mac-heads (who, more often than not, aren't >nearly as knowledgeable as they believe). Ok, I'd just like to point out that we're not all like that. Some of us a real nice folks. We're not all smug, but given the choice, most Mac used would prefer to work on Mac than PC because the working environment is nicer, calmer, more predictable and a lot lower maintenance. On the desk in front of me are two Macs and a Dell. I recently had cause to use FrameMaker on the PC, and was forcibly struck by how much less usable it was than on the Mac. This was not in any way the fault of FrameMaker, it was just the ghastly XP windowing interface. AppleScript is niche, FrameScript is niche. AppleScript Studio is even nichier, but is pretty awesome - as is FrameScript. To misquote Bruce Bairnsfather, 'If you know a better niche, go to it!' -- Steve
Need Help Automating FrameMaker Processes
At 6:37 PM +0100 4/28/06, Steve Rickaby wrote: >AppleScript is niche, FrameScript is niche. Writing AppleScript for FrameMaker is as "nichy" as it gets. I know maybe half a dozen people who use AppleScript with FrameMaker. I think all but one of them is on this list. And it's truly a pity that it is so niche. And it's a pity because the stuff you can do with it in terms of workflow are truly awesome. Just as an example, I wrote a manuscript cleaner once to clean up and apply a template to documents I was setting for the local government. It reduced a 6 hour manual job (even if you knew all of the ways to speed up the cleanup with global changes, etc) into a double click. The script cleaned a 100 page manuscript in about 15 minutes. There were about 30 tests run on each paragraph (fixed the punctuation of latinisms, turned double hyphens to proper dashes, deleted empty paragraphs, turned manually numbered paragraphs into proper autonumbered lists, etc.), and in the end there was very little manual work to do cleaning up tables. It even applied the template to the raw text file. You've got to love something that does this. Took three hours to write the script, so it saved three hours the first time it was used. But AppleScript's interapplication communication is its big benefit. And whoever said that Apple doesn't do enough to promote it is right. I write scripts every day of life, and have saved myself thousands of hours of manual drudgery in the process. The UNIX shell and the ability of AppleScript to run shell scripts and process stdout has only magnified that power exponentially. Most Mac users I know are blissfully ignorant of both of these things (AppleScript and the UNIX shell). I can't imagine how they get anything done. I'd go crazy doing things manually that I see people doing on their Macs every day. Okay. I'm going home to have a beer. - web
