Re: Choosing a Help Format
Not only that, but MS stopped support for the 32-bit help viewer. ( WinHlp32.exe) However, they do still distribute it http://support.microsoft.com/kb/917607 , albeit with some fairly scary warnings. There is an alternative viewer: Help Explorer Viewer (http://download.cnet.com/Help-Explorer-Viewer/3000-6675_4-1061.html ) Grant Hogarth On November 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote: There's no free runtime help viewer? That would explain why no one uses that format. On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: We’ve been in touch with Rob Chandler (creator of mshcMigrate) and he’s helped us realize that I might have been describing our challenge incorrectly. The developers are using VS 2010 to create an application that will run independently from Visual Studio, using .NET 4.0 as the framework. From everything we’ve read, it seems that MS Help Viewer only works if Visual Studio is installed; is that right? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
winhlp32.exe is a viewer for WinHelp (.hlp) files, which format was supplanted by MS HTML Help (.chm) years ago. We're talking about Microsoft Help Container (.mshc). On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 4:48 PM, gr...@hedgewizard.net gr...@hedgewizard.net wrote: Not only that, but MS stopped support for the 32-bit help viewer. ( WinHlp32.exe) On November 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote: There's no free runtime help viewer? That would explain why no one uses that format. On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: We’ve been in touch with Rob Chandler (creator of mshcMigrate) and he’s helped us realize that I might have been describing our challenge incorrectly. The developers are using VS 2010 to create an application that will run independently from Visual Studio, using .NET 4.0 as the framework. From everything we’ve read, it seems that MS Help Viewer only works if Visual Studio is installed; is that right? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Choosing a Help Format
Thanks for the suggestion, Grant, but I’m not clear on whether it supports Windows 7. We’ll look into it. Yup, Rob confirmed that MS Help Viewer only works with Visual Studio. So it looks like we’re stuck with MS HTML Help (.chm), which is a bit more modern than WinHelp. Eclipse Help and OmniHelp are also still in the running. We found that we can do a rudimentary context-sensitive help with any of them if we link to a URL and don’t try to link to a mid-page anchor. Thanks to everyone who responded. With your help, we are very close to making a decision. Fei Min From: gr...@hedgewizard.net [mailto:gr...@hedgewizard.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 7:48 PM To: Robert Lauriston Cc: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format Not only that, but MS stopped support for the 32-bit help viewer. ( WinHlp32.exe) However, they do still distribute it http://support.microsoft.com/kb/917607 , albeit with some fairly scary warnings. There is an alternative viewer: Help Explorer Viewer ( http://download.cnet.com/Help-Explorer-Viewer/3000-6675_4-1061.html) Grant Hogarth On November 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.commailto:rob...@lauriston.com wrote: There's no free runtime help viewer? That would explain why no one uses that format. On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.commailto:feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: We’ve been in touch with Rob Chandler (creator of mshcMigrate) and he’s helped us realize that I might have been describing our challenge incorrectly. The developers are using VS 2010 to create an application that will run independently from Visual Studio, using .NET 4.0 as the framework. From everything we’ve read, it seems that MS Help Viewer only works if Visual Studio is installed; is that right? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Choosing a Help Format
Thanks, Jack, but we’re using FrameMaker for the content creation and we’re not planning to move to Flare. Fei Min From: Jack DeLand [mailto:jackdel...@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 10:46 AM To: Fei Min Lorente; gr...@hedgewizard.net; 'Robert Lauriston' Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: Choosing a Help Format I haven’t kept up with this thread; has anyone mentioned Flare Help Viewer? It is much more modern than CHM, and runs in .Net 4.0 (required). Worth a trial. Jack DeLand, CSM | 734 972 3026 (cell) | jack.deland (skype) | http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackdeland From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fei Min Lorente Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 9:23 AM To: gr...@hedgewizard.netmailto:gr...@hedgewizard.net; Robert Lauriston Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: Choosing a Help Format Thanks for the suggestion, Grant, but I’m not clear on whether it supports Windows 7. We’ll look into it. Yup, Rob confirmed that MS Help Viewer only works with Visual Studio. So it looks like we’re stuck with MS HTML Help (.chm), which is a bit more modern than WinHelp. Eclipse Help and OmniHelp are also still in the running. We found that we can do a rudimentary context-sensitive help with any of them if we link to a URL and don’t try to link to a mid-page anchor. Thanks to everyone who responded. With your help, we are very close to making a decision. Fei Min From: gr...@hedgewizard.netmailto:gr...@hedgewizard.net [mailto:gr...@hedgewizard.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 7:48 PM To: Robert Lauriston Cc: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format Not only that, but MS stopped support for the 32-bit help viewer. ( WinHlp32.exe) However, they do still distribute it http://support.microsoft.com/kb/917607 , albeit with some fairly scary warnings. There is an alternative viewer: Help Explorer Viewer ( http://download.cnet.com/Help-Explorer-Viewer/3000-6675_4-1061.html) Grant Hogarth On November 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.commailto:rob...@lauriston.com wrote: There's no free runtime help viewer? That would explain why no one uses that format. On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.commailto:feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: We’ve been in touch with Rob Chandler (creator of mshcMigrate) and he’s helped us realize that I might have been describing our challenge incorrectly. The developers are using VS 2010 to create an application that will run independently from Visual Studio, using .NET 4.0 as the framework. From everything we’ve read, it seems that MS Help Viewer only works if Visual Studio is installed; is that right? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Choosing a Help Format
Thanks for reminding me about coordinating tag content with the developers. ☺ We’ve been in touch with Rob Chandler (creator of mshcMigrate) and he’s helped us realize that I might have been describing our challenge incorrectly. The developers are using VS 2010 to create an application that will run independently from Visual Studio, using .NET 4.0 as the framework. From everything we’ve read, it seems that MS Help Viewer only works if Visual Studio is installed; is that right? Fei Min From: David Spreadbury [mailto:dspre...@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:21 AM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format Fei Min, Yes, both Omnihelp and OracleHelp for Java are very fast and very flexible. Both the HTML Help Workshop help and Mif2Go Users Guide, discuss how to go about creating the tags necessary to make context-sensitive help work. The primary thing, from what i have have found, is the calls from the help to the application requires close coordination between the help and application developers to determine a mutually agreeable tag content. On Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:12 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.commailto:feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Okay, point taken. We won’t worry about all the HTML files being exposed in OmniHelp. And our software developer did notice how fast it was. So we’re looking at context-sensitive help to see if we can get that to work in MS Help Viewer or anything else. It’s not a requirement right now, especially if it’s going to add any significant time to the schedule, but I’m convinced that it’s a key feature that can enhance the user experience, and one of the few advantages that HTML can provide over PDF. If we don’t implement it this time around, I’d like to include it next time. Fei Min From: David Spreadbury [mailto:dspre...@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:43 AM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format Fei Min, Personally I think you are stabbing at windmills. It isn't all that difficult to decompile a CHM, make a change, and recompile. How many do? I produce OracleHelp for Java from Frame source. It also produces HTML for the content. It is delivered as server based, but there is nothing to prevent someone changing the HTML. Haven't heard of anyone doing it. Dave On Friday, November 22, 2013 12:43 PM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.commailto:feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Okay, that would explain why no one seems to be using Eclipse Help unless it's an Eclipse product. :-) We're concerned about the OmniHelp files on the theory that if people can do something, someone will. That could be a completely unfounded concern, so I'm glad to hear opinions to the contrary. Fei Min -Original Message- From: robert.lauris...@gmail.commailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.commailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:26 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format I agree with Jeremy, standalone EclipseHelp is a huge and complicated distributable. It's not a practical format. I'm not sure if there's a use case where it would make sense. Why would users mess with your help files? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.commailto:feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: And we weren't worried about OmniHelp losing files; we are worried about users going in and messing with them. Is there any way to lock them down? We're very curious about using standalone Eclipse Help; has anyone here used it for a non-Eclipse-based product? If not, I'll take this question to the eclipse_tw group. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dspre...@yahoo.com.mailto:dspre...@yahoo.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com.mailto:listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
There's no free runtime help viewer? That would explain why no one uses that format. On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: We’ve been in touch with Rob Chandler (creator of mshcMigrate) and he’s helped us realize that I might have been describing our challenge incorrectly. The developers are using VS 2010 to create an application that will run independently from Visual Studio, using .NET 4.0 as the framework. From everything we’ve read, it seems that MS Help Viewer only works if Visual Studio is installed; is that right? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
Fei Min, Personally I think you are stabbing at windmills. It isn't all that difficult to decompile a CHM, make a change, and recompile. How many do? I produce OracleHelp for Java from Frame source. It also produces HTML for the content. It is delivered as server based, but there is nothing to prevent someone changing the HTML. Haven't heard of anyone doing it. Dave On Friday, November 22, 2013 12:43 PM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Okay, that would explain why no one seems to be using Eclipse Help unless it's an Eclipse product. :-) We're concerned about the OmniHelp files on the theory that if people can do something, someone will. That could be a completely unfounded concern, so I'm glad to hear opinions to the contrary. Fei Min -Original Message- From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:26 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format I agree with Jeremy, standalone EclipseHelp is a huge and complicated distributable. It's not a practical format. I'm not sure if there's a use case where it would make sense. Why would users mess with your help files? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: And we weren't worried about OmniHelp losing files; we are worried about users going in and messing with them. Is there any way to lock them down? We're very curious about using standalone Eclipse Help; has anyone here used it for a non-Eclipse-based product? If not, I'll take this question to the eclipse_tw group. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dspre...@yahoo.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Choosing a Help Format
Okay, point taken. We won't worry about all the HTML files being exposed in OmniHelp. And our software developer did notice how fast it was. So we're looking at context-sensitive help to see if we can get that to work in MS Help Viewer or anything else. It's not a requirement right now, especially if it's going to add any significant time to the schedule, but I'm convinced that it's a key feature that can enhance the user experience, and one of the few advantages that HTML can provide over PDF. If we don't implement it this time around, I'd like to include it next time. Fei Min From: David Spreadbury [mailto:dspre...@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:43 AM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format Fei Min, Personally I think you are stabbing at windmills. It isn't all that difficult to decompile a CHM, make a change, and recompile. How many do? I produce OracleHelp for Java from Frame source. It also produces HTML for the content. It is delivered as server based, but there is nothing to prevent someone changing the HTML. Haven't heard of anyone doing it. Dave On Friday, November 22, 2013 12:43 PM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.commailto:feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Okay, that would explain why no one seems to be using Eclipse Help unless it's an Eclipse product. :-) We're concerned about the OmniHelp files on the theory that if people can do something, someone will. That could be a completely unfounded concern, so I'm glad to hear opinions to the contrary. Fei Min -Original Message- From: robert.lauris...@gmail.commailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.commailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:26 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format I agree with Jeremy, standalone EclipseHelp is a huge and complicated distributable. It's not a practical format. I'm not sure if there's a use case where it would make sense. Why would users mess with your help files? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.commailto:feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: And we weren't worried about OmniHelp losing files; we are worried about users going in and messing with them. Is there any way to lock them down? We're very curious about using standalone Eclipse Help; has anyone here used it for a non-Eclipse-based product? If not, I'll take this question to the eclipse_tw group. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dspre...@yahoo.com.mailto:dspre...@yahoo.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.commailto:framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com.mailto:listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
Fei Min, Yes, both Omnihelp and OracleHelp for Java are very fast and very flexible. Both the HTML Help Workshop help and Mif2Go Users Guide, discuss how to go about creating the tags necessary to make context-sensitive help work. The primary thing, from what i have have found, is the calls from the help to the application requires close coordination between the help and application developers to determine a mutually agreeable tag content. On Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:12 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Okay, point taken. We won’t worry about all the HTML files being exposed in OmniHelp. And our software developer did notice how fast it was. So we’re looking at context-sensitive help to see if we can get that to work in MS Help Viewer or anything else. It’s not a requirement right now, especially if it’s going to add any significant time to the schedule, but I’m convinced that it’s a key feature that can enhance the user experience, and one of the few advantages that HTML can provide over PDF. If we don’t implement it this time around, I’d like to include it next time. Fei Min From:David Spreadbury [mailto:dspre...@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:43 AM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format Fei Min, Personally I think you are stabbing at windmills. It isn't all that difficult to decompile a CHM, make a change, and recompile. How many do? I produce OracleHelp for Java from Frame source. It also produces HTML for the content. It is delivered as server based, but there is nothing to prevent someone changing the HTML. Haven't heard of anyone doing it. Dave On Friday, November 22, 2013 12:43 PM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Okay, that would explain why no one seems to be using Eclipse Help unless it's an Eclipse product. :-) We're concerned about the OmniHelp files on the theory that if people can do something, someone will. That could be a completely unfounded concern, so I'm glad to hear opinions to the contrary. Fei Min -Original Message- From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:26 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format I agree with Jeremy, standalone EclipseHelp is a huge and complicated distributable. It's not a practical format. I'm not sure if there's a use case where it would make sense. Why would users mess with your help files? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: And we weren't worried about OmniHelp losing files; we are worried about users going in and messing with them. Is there any way to lock them down? We're very curious about using standalone Eclipse Help; has anyone here used it for a non-Eclipse-based product? If not, I'll take this question to the eclipse_tw group. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dspre...@yahoo.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dspreadb%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Choosing a Help Format
Thanks, Jeremy. You're helpful as always. More clarification: we're planning to just set up a button or a menu item in the VS-based user interface that triggers the help system, and the help system will run in its own application not in VS, so we shouldn't be forced to use MS Help Viewer. And we weren't worried about OmniHelp losing files; we are worried about users going in and messing with them. Is there any way to lock them down? We're very curious about using standalone Eclipse Help; has anyone here used it for a non-Eclipse-based product? If not, I'll take this question to the eclipse_tw group. Fei Min -Original Message- From: Jeremy H. Griffith [mailto:jer...@omsys.com] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 3:58 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Cc: Fei Min Lorente Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 18:41:52 +, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: I've got documentation in structured FrameMaker 10 and Mif2Go. I've produced Eclipse Help routinely in the past, but for the first time, we're creating a user interface in Visual Studio. We want to integrate the Help so that a button or menu item in the UI will open a Help window, complete with a table of contents and search facility. An index would be nice, and context-sensitive links to the documentation would be nice, but are lower priority. If you want it to run within VS, you have only one choice: the current MS Help Viewer. The support group for it is mshelpvie...@yahoogroups.com; Rob Chandler runs it. We have current customers producing it with Mif2Go. More links to resources for it in the User's Guide, par. 7.1.1, Considering Help-system features. And I wouldn't worry about OmniHelp losing files, LOL! That use of small files is what makes it way faster than the alternatives. None ever get lost. ;-) But really, Help Viewer is the only one that works within VS as you want. MS has made very sure of that. g -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. jer...@omsys.comhttp://mif2go.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:53:28 +, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: More clarification: we're planning to just set up a button or a menu item in the VS-based user interface that triggers the help system, and the help system will run in its own application not in VS, so we shouldn't be forced to use MS Help Viewer. Bad Idea. AFAIK, Help Viewer is the only way you can get CSH. If a developer hits F1 and nothing happens, big Fail. It's unrealistic to expect them to open another app for help. Help Viewer is not so bad; other Mif2Go users, like Rockwell, have been producing it for a long time (counting its predecessors too). And we weren't worried about OmniHelp losing files; we are worried about users going in and messing with them. Is there any way to lock them down? Why would anyone do that? We've never heard of it happening. And there are *no* Help systems that run on the client that can prevent it. Even AIR, Adobe's proprietary ripoff of WebKit, can be hacked in a couple of minutes by anyone motivated. We're very curious about using standalone Eclipse Help; has anyone here used it for a non-Eclipse-based product? If not, I'll take this question to the eclipse_tw group. There's a good reason nobody does that. It has a huge footprint, a lengthy install that few will be willing to put up with, and is high maintenance. Even dot updates often break working systems. -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. jer...@omsys.comhttp://mif2go.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Choosing a Help Format
Okay, that would explain why no one seems to be using Eclipse Help unless it's an Eclipse product. :-) We're concerned about the OmniHelp files on the theory that if people can do something, someone will. That could be a completely unfounded concern, so I'm glad to hear opinions to the contrary. Fei Min -Original Message- From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:26 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format I agree with Jeremy, standalone EclipseHelp is a huge and complicated distributable. It's not a practical format. I'm not sure if there's a use case where it would make sense. Why would users mess with your help files? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: And we weren't worried about OmniHelp losing files; we are worried about users going in and messing with them. Is there any way to lock them down? We're very curious about using standalone Eclipse Help; has anyone here used it for a non-Eclipse-based product? If not, I'll take this question to the eclipse_tw group. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
OmniHelp is web help. Web help is not a standard format but a generic term for help deliverables that use HTML and JavaScript. RoboHelp, Flare, and WebWorks ePublisher all have their own proprietary versions of web help, in some cases several versions. Which language in Visual Studio? It supports C++, JavaScript, C#, Visual Basic, and F# out of the box, plus other languages. Which help formats are appropriate depends on the language. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: I’ve got documentation in structured FrameMaker 10 and Mif2Go. I’ve produced Eclipse Help routinely in the past, but for the first time, we’re creating a user interface in Visual Studio. We want to integrate the Help so that a button or menu item in the UI will open a Help window, complete with a table of contents and search facility. An index would be nice, and context-sensitive links to the documentation would be nice, but are lower priority. The software is intended for Windows operating systems only, and it’s supposed to be a standalone installation—no internet or network required. We are considering Microsoft HTML Help, but have a few concerns because it seems somewhat dated and lacking in active development on Microsoft’s part. We are also considering standalone Eclipse Help because it’s being maintained and we can leverage our previous experience, but we are somewhat daunted by its size and the fact that we couldn’t find anyone using it when they aren’t producing an Eclipse-based product. WebHelp requires us to buy RoboHelp, which isn’t out of the question, but I’m not sure we can justify the cost because we don’t need it to run cross-platform nor from a server, and our developer is a bit concerned about the uncompiled set of output files being too easy for customers to mess with. Could anyone suggest any other Help formats we should look at? Can anyone endorse a Help format or tell us which ones we should avoid? Can anyone (besides Jeremy J) tell me about their experience with OmniHelp? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
If you have an index and context-sensitive help already in EclipseHelp, you should be able to generate those with OmniHelp without having to modify your FrameMaker source at all. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
If you've already got MIF2Go generating EclipseHelp, how your docs are structured is of no concern. Adding a second or third output format in MIF2Go is a very minor task compared with the first. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Not DITA. It's our own DTD. Fei Min -Original Message- From: Writer [mailto:generic...@yahoo.ca] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:51 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format By structured, do you mean DITA or some other type of structured content? Nadine I’ve got documentation in structured FrameMaker 10 and Mif2Go. I’ve produced Eclipse Help routinely in the past, but for the first time, we’re creating a user interface in Visual Studio. We want to integrate the Help so that a button or menu item in the UI will open a Help window, complete with a table of contents and search facility. An index would be nice, and context-sensitive links to the documentation would be nice, but are lower priority. The software is intended for Windows operating systems only, and it’s supposed to be a standalone installation—no internet or network required. We are considering Microsoft HTML Help, but have a few concerns because it seems somewhat dated and lacking in active development on Microsoft’s part. We are also considering standalone Eclipse Help because it’s being maintained and we can leverage our previous experience, but we are somewhat daunted by its size and the fact that we couldn’t find anyone using it when they aren’t producing an Eclipse-based product. WebHelp requires us to buy RoboHelp, which isn’t out of the question, but I’m not sure we can justify the cost because we don’t need it to run cross-platform nor from a server, and our developer is a bit concerned about the uncompiled set of output files being too easy for customers to mess with. Could anyone suggest any other Help formats we should look at? Can anyone endorse a Help format or tell us which ones we should avoid? Can anyone (besides Jeremy J) tell me about their experience with OmniHelp? Fei Min Lorente Senior Technical Communicator Medical and Wireless Division feimin.lore...@onsemi.com +1 519-884-9696 ext. 2229 | Waterloo office +1 519-831-4931 | mobile +1 905-631-5724 | fax www.onsemi.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as rob...@lauriston.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/robert%40lauriston.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
Per the MIF2Go documentation, you could generate .chm and convert it to .mshc (MS Help Viewer): http://mif2go.com/xhtml/helpsys_0001_711consideringhelpsystemfeatures.htm I found RoboHelp the weakest of the three help-authoring add-ons for FrameMaker. Not only does its web help deliverable include more files than MIF2Go, it creates a whole bunch of subdirectories. I found AIRHelp so awful that I don't even like to use it for Adobe apps, I use the web help version on adobe.com instead. If MIF2Go doesn't meet your requirements, WebWorks ePublisher is the way to go. But I don't believe it can generate .mshc directly, either. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: We're using C# in Visual Studio. It's good to know that the index and context markers in FrameMaker will translate to OmniHelp. And yes, as an experiment, I output MS HTML Help from FM using Mif2Go, and aside from some configuration goofs on my part, it went very smoothly. We're looking at OmniHelp now, and we're kind of concerned about the number of HTML files it has to install. We're worried about one going missing or getting altered. Jeff, has performance been an issue with Adobe AIRHelp? I've heard that it's slow. And are you producing that with RoboHelp? Fei Min -Original Message- From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 2:01 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format If you've already got MIF2Go generating EclipseHelp, how your docs are structured is of no concern. Adding a second or third output format in MIF2Go is a very minor task compared with the first. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Not DITA. It's our own DTD. Fei Min -Original Message- From: Writer [mailto:generic...@yahoo.ca] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:51 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format By structured, do you mean DITA or some other type of structured content? Nadine I've got documentation in structured FrameMaker 10 and Mif2Go. I've produced Eclipse Help routinely in the past, but for the first time, we're creating a user interface in Visual Studio. We want to integrate the Help so that a button or menu item in the UI will open a Help window, complete with a table of contents and search facility. An index would be nice, and context-sensitive links to the documentation would be nice, but are lower priority. The software is intended for Windows operating systems only, and it's supposed to be a standalone installation-no internet or network required. We are considering Microsoft HTML Help, but have a few concerns because it seems somewhat dated and lacking in active development on Microsoft's part. We are also considering standalone Eclipse Help because it's being maintained and we can leverage our previous experience, but we are somewhat daunted by its size and the fact that we couldn't find anyone using it when they aren't producing an Eclipse-based product. WebHelp requires us to buy RoboHelp, which isn't out of the question, but I'm not sure we can justify the cost because we don't need it to run cross-platform nor from a server, and our developer is a bit concerned about the uncompiled set of output files being too easy for customers to mess with. Could anyone suggest any other Help formats we should look at? Can anyone endorse a Help format or tell us which ones we should avoid? Can anyone (besides Jeremy J) tell me about their experience with OmniHelp? Fei Min Lorente Senior Technical Communicator Medical and Wireless Division feimin.lore...@onsemi.com +1 519-884-9696 ext. 2229 | Waterloo office +1 519-831-4931 | mobile +1 905-631-5724 | fax www.onsemi.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as rob...@lauriston.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/robert%40lauriston .com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as rob...@lauriston.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/robert%40lauriston.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list
Re: Choosing a Help Format
AIRHelp as I used it a few years ago was not viable for users who had no Internet access; the .exe file looks for an update whenever it is launched. You'd be surprised how many users are out there without 'net access, especially govt and govt contractors. There may be a way to make it behave now. I've given up on it. - Original Message - From: Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 2:10:53 PM Subject: RE: Choosing a Help Format We're using C# in Visual Studio. It's good to know that the index and context markers in FrameMaker will translate to OmniHelp. And yes, as an experiment, I output MS HTML Help from FM using Mif2Go, and aside from some configuration goofs on my part, it went very smoothly. We're looking at OmniHelp now, and we're kind of concerned about the number of HTML files it has to install. We're worried about one going missing or getting altered. Jeff, has performance been an issue with Adobe AIRHelp? I've heard that it's slow. And are you producing that with RoboHelp? Fei Min -Original Message- From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 2:01 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format If you've already got MIF2Go generating EclipseHelp, how your docs are structured is of no concern. Adding a second or third output format in MIF2Go is a very minor task compared with the first. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Not DITA. It's our own DTD. Fei Min -Original Message- From: Writer [mailto:generic...@yahoo.ca] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:51 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format By structured, do you mean DITA or some other type of structured content? Nadine I've got documentation in structured FrameMaker 10 and Mif2Go. I've produced Eclipse Help routinely in the past, but for the first time, we're creating a user interface in Visual Studio. We want to integrate the Help so that a button or menu item in the UI will open a Help window, complete with a table of contents and search facility. An index would be nice, and context-sensitive links to the documentation would be nice, but are lower priority. The software is intended for Windows operating systems only, and it's supposed to be a standalone installation-no internet or network required. We are considering Microsoft HTML Help, but have a few concerns because it seems somewhat dated and lacking in active development on Microsoft's part. We are also considering standalone Eclipse Help because it's being maintained and we can leverage our previous experience, but we are somewhat daunted by its size and the fact that we couldn't find anyone using it when they aren't producing an Eclipse-based product. WebHelp requires us to buy RoboHelp, which isn't out of the question, but I'm not sure we can justify the cost because we don't need it to run cross-platform nor from a server, and our developer is a bit concerned about the uncompiled set of output files being too easy for customers to mess with. Could anyone suggest any other Help formats we should look at? Can anyone endorse a Help format or tell us which ones we should avoid? Can anyone (besides Jeremy J) tell me about their experience with OmniHelp? Fei Min Lorente Senior Technical Communicator Medical and Wireless Division feimin.lore...@onsemi.com +1 519-884-9696 ext. 2229 | Waterloo office +1 519-831-4931 | mobile +1 905-631-5724 | fax www.onsemi.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as rob...@lauriston.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/robert%40lauriston .com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jackdel...@comcast.net. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jackdeland%40comcast.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http
RE: Choosing a Help Format
Original Message From: Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com Date: Fri, November 22, 2013 10:53 am And we weren't worried about OmniHelp losing files; we are worried about users going in and messing with them. Is there any way to lock them down? Security through obscurity: how in the heck will anyone FIND the file that they want to edit? :) More seriously, you could try applying read-only attribute tot he files after generation (or as part of generation, with a script?). Doesn't guarantee no tampering, but makes those folks who would try have to think twice. Also, perhaps your overall help system footer should have a feedback button, which allows someone to email a suggestion for edit, tagged with the topic ID/heading? Give folks a chance to pass the buck back to you, and you should be able to mitigate any tendencies to hack/'fix' content outside of normal change control. THAT said... doesn't your company have management who can say, Hey, don't hack the content! Contact Documentation? If you have folks bypassing normal change control, that fundamentally an operational breakdown, not something you should have to programatically prevent. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
I agree with Jeremy, standalone EclipseHelp is a huge and complicated distributable. It's not a practical format. I'm not sure if there's a use case where it would make sense. Why would users mess with your help files? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: And we weren't worried about OmniHelp losing files; we are worried about users going in and messing with them. Is there any way to lock them down? We're very curious about using standalone Eclipse Help; has anyone here used it for a non-Eclipse-based product? If not, I'll take this question to the eclipse_tw group. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
It has been easy to hack help files for ages and I've never heard of anyone having a problem. I think the original idea for standalone EclipseHelp was that it would be a lightweight format. On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Okay, that would explain why no one seems to be using Eclipse Help unless it's an Eclipse product. :-) We're concerned about the OmniHelp files on the theory that if people can do something, someone will. That could be a completely unfounded concern, so I'm glad to hear opinions to the contrary. Fei Min -Original Message- From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:26 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format I agree with Jeremy, standalone EclipseHelp is a huge and complicated distributable. It's not a practical format. I'm not sure if there's a use case where it would make sense. Why would users mess with your help files? On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: And we weren't worried about OmniHelp losing files; we are worried about users going in and messing with them. Is there any way to lock them down? We're very curious about using standalone Eclipse Help; has anyone here used it for a non-Eclipse-based product? If not, I'll take this question to the eclipse_tw group. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as rob...@lauriston.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/robert%40lauriston.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Choosing a Help Format
Sorry, forgot to do the Reply All thing. Yes, we're producing it via RH - it's not slow at all since it's installed on each workstation. You can get a free license to redistribute the AIR framework installer too if the workstation hasn't already got AIR installed. We bundle the app, the help (a .air file) and the AIR installer all together. Our app unpackages it all installs it. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fei Min Lorente Sent: November-21-13 2:11 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: Choosing a Help Format We're using C# in Visual Studio. It's good to know that the index and context markers in FrameMaker will translate to OmniHelp. And yes, as an experiment, I output MS HTML Help from FM using Mif2Go, and aside from some configuration goofs on my part, it went very smoothly. We're looking at OmniHelp now, and we're kind of concerned about the number of HTML files it has to install. We're worried about one going missing or getting altered. Jeff, has performance been an issue with Adobe AIRHelp? I've heard that it's slow. And are you producing that with RoboHelp? Fei Min -Original Message- From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 2:01 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format If you've already got MIF2Go generating EclipseHelp, how your docs are structured is of no concern. Adding a second or third output format in MIF2Go is a very minor task compared with the first. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Not DITA. It's our own DTD. Fei Min -Original Message- From: Writer [mailto:generic...@yahoo.ca] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:51 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format By structured, do you mean DITA or some other type of structured content? Nadine I've got documentation in structured FrameMaker 10 and Mif2Go. I've produced Eclipse Help routinely in the past, but for the first time, we're creating a user interface in Visual Studio. We want to integrate the Help so that a button or menu item in the UI will open a Help window, complete with a table of contents and search facility. An index would be nice, and context-sensitive links to the documentation would be nice, but are lower priority. The software is intended for Windows operating systems only, and it's supposed to be a standalone installation-no internet or network required. We are considering Microsoft HTML Help, but have a few concerns because it seems somewhat dated and lacking in active development on Microsoft's part. We are also considering standalone Eclipse Help because it's being maintained and we can leverage our previous experience, but we are somewhat daunted by its size and the fact that we couldn't find anyone using it when they aren't producing an Eclipse-based product. WebHelp requires us to buy RoboHelp, which isn't out of the question, but I'm not sure we can justify the cost because we don't need it to run cross-platform nor from a server, and our developer is a bit concerned about the uncompiled set of output files being too easy for customers to mess with. Could anyone suggest any other Help formats we should look at? Can anyone endorse a Help format or tell us which ones we should avoid? Can anyone (besides Jeremy J) tell me about their experience with OmniHelp? Fei Min Lorente Senior Technical Communicator Medical and Wireless Division feimin.lore...@onsemi.com +1 519-884-9696 ext. 2229 | Waterloo office +1 519-831-4931 | mobile +1 905-631-5724 | fax www.onsemi.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as rob...@lauriston.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/robert%40lauriston .com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jeff.coatswo...@jonasclub.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jeff.coatsworth%40jonasclub.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers
RE: Choosing a Help Format
Not DITA. It's our own DTD. Fei Min -Original Message- From: Writer [mailto:generic...@yahoo.ca] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:51 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format By structured, do you mean DITA or some other type of structured content? Nadine I’ve got documentation in structured FrameMaker 10 and Mif2Go. I’ve produced Eclipse Help routinely in the past, but for the first time, we’re creating a user interface in Visual Studio. We want to integrate the Help so that a button or menu item in the UI will open a Help window, complete with a table of contents and search facility. An index would be nice, and context-sensitive links to the documentation would be nice, but are lower priority. The software is intended for Windows operating systems only, and it’s supposed to be a standalone installation—no internet or network required. We are considering Microsoft HTML Help, but have a few concerns because it seems somewhat dated and lacking in active development on Microsoft’s part. We are also considering standalone Eclipse Help because it’s being maintained and we can leverage our previous experience, but we are somewhat daunted by its size and the fact that we couldn’t find anyone using it when they aren’t producing an Eclipse-based product. WebHelp requires us to buy RoboHelp, which isn’t out of the question, but I’m not sure we can justify the cost because we don’t need it to run cross-platform nor from a server, and our developer is a bit concerned about the uncompiled set of output files being too easy for customers to mess with. Could anyone suggest any other Help formats we should look at? Can anyone endorse a Help format or tell us which ones we should avoid? Can anyone (besides Jeremy J) tell me about their experience with OmniHelp? Fei Min Lorente Senior Technical Communicator Medical and Wireless Division feimin.lore...@onsemi.com +1 519-884-9696 ext. 2229 | Waterloo office +1 519-831-4931 | mobile +1 905-631-5724 | fax www.onsemi.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
By structured, do you mean DITA or some other type of structured content? Nadine I’ve got documentation in structured FrameMaker 10 and Mif2Go. I’ve produced Eclipse Help routinely in the past, but for the first time, we’re creating a user interface in Visual Studio. We want to integrate the Help so that a button or menu item in the UI will open a Help window, complete with a table of contents and search facility. An index would be nice, and context-sensitive links to the documentation would be nice, but are lower priority. The software is intended for Windows operating systems only, and it’s supposed to be a standalone installation—no internet or network required. We are considering Microsoft HTML Help, but have a few concerns because it seems somewhat dated and lacking in active development on Microsoft’s part. We are also considering standalone Eclipse Help because it’s being maintained and we can leverage our previous experience, but we are somewhat daunted by its size and the fact that we couldn’t find anyone using it when they aren’t producing an Eclipse-based product. WebHelp requires us to buy RoboHelp, which isn’t out of the question, but I’m not sure we can justify the cost because we don’t need it to run cross-platform nor from a server, and our developer is a bit concerned about the uncompiled set of output files being too easy for customers to mess with. Could anyone suggest any other Help formats we should look at? Can anyone endorse a Help format or tell us which ones we should avoid? Can anyone (besides Jeremy J) tell me about their experience with OmniHelp? Fei Min Lorente Senior Technical Communicator Medical and Wireless Division feimin.lore...@onsemi.com +1 519-884-9696 ext. 2229 | Waterloo office +1 519-831-4931 | mobile +1 905-631-5724 | fax www.onsemi.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Choosing a Help Format
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 18:41:52 +, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: I've got documentation in structured FrameMaker 10 and Mif2Go. I've produced Eclipse Help routinely in the past, but for the first time, we're creating a user interface in Visual Studio. We want to integrate the Help so that a button or menu item in the UI will open a Help window, complete with a table of contents and search facility. An index would be nice, and context-sensitive links to the documentation would be nice, but are lower priority. If you want it to run within VS, you have only one choice: the current MS Help Viewer. The support group for it is mshelpvie...@yahoogroups.com; Rob Chandler runs it. We have current customers producing it with Mif2Go. More links to resources for it in the User's Guide, par. 7.1.1, Considering Help-system features. And I wouldn't worry about OmniHelp losing files, LOL! That use of small files is what makes it way faster than the alternatives. None ever get lost. ;-) But really, Help Viewer is the only one that works within VS as you want. MS has made very sure of that. g -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. jer...@omsys.comhttp://mif2go.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Choosing a Help Format
We're using C# in Visual Studio. It's good to know that the index and context markers in FrameMaker will translate to OmniHelp. And yes, as an experiment, I output MS HTML Help from FM using Mif2Go, and aside from some configuration goofs on my part, it went very smoothly. We're looking at OmniHelp now, and we're kind of concerned about the number of HTML files it has to install. We're worried about one going missing or getting altered. Jeff, has performance been an issue with Adobe AIRHelp? I've heard that it's slow. And are you producing that with RoboHelp? Fei Min -Original Message- From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 2:01 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format If you've already got MIF2Go generating EclipseHelp, how your docs are structured is of no concern. Adding a second or third output format in MIF2Go is a very minor task compared with the first. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Not DITA. It's our own DTD. Fei Min -Original Message- From: Writer [mailto:generic...@yahoo.ca] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:51 PM To: Fei Min Lorente; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Choosing a Help Format By structured, do you mean DITA or some other type of structured content? Nadine I've got documentation in structured FrameMaker 10 and Mif2Go. I've produced Eclipse Help routinely in the past, but for the first time, we're creating a user interface in Visual Studio. We want to integrate the Help so that a button or menu item in the UI will open a Help window, complete with a table of contents and search facility. An index would be nice, and context-sensitive links to the documentation would be nice, but are lower priority. The software is intended for Windows operating systems only, and it's supposed to be a standalone installation-no internet or network required. We are considering Microsoft HTML Help, but have a few concerns because it seems somewhat dated and lacking in active development on Microsoft's part. We are also considering standalone Eclipse Help because it's being maintained and we can leverage our previous experience, but we are somewhat daunted by its size and the fact that we couldn't find anyone using it when they aren't producing an Eclipse-based product. WebHelp requires us to buy RoboHelp, which isn't out of the question, but I'm not sure we can justify the cost because we don't need it to run cross-platform nor from a server, and our developer is a bit concerned about the uncompiled set of output files being too easy for customers to mess with. Could anyone suggest any other Help formats we should look at? Can anyone endorse a Help format or tell us which ones we should avoid? Can anyone (besides Jeremy J) tell me about their experience with OmniHelp? Fei Min Lorente Senior Technical Communicator Medical and Wireless Division feimin.lore...@onsemi.com +1 519-884-9696 ext. 2229 | Waterloo office +1 519-831-4931 | mobile +1 905-631-5724 | fax www.onsemi.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as rob...@lauriston.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/robert%40lauriston .com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
