Re: [Frameworks] Looking to build a list of 'Experimental Documentaries' on video
If you're interested in recent short form - my series The Observatory, I believe, meets your criteria. I'm not a well-represented somebody, not sure if that matters, but my work is adding to the discussion of non-fiction film without being too out there (or that's my motivation to say the least). http://bryanmcmanus.com/THE-OBSERVATORY Good luck! - Also - am interested in your final list if you care to post it! -Bryan On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 5:19 PM, David Tetzlaff djte...@gmail.com wrote: I'm looking to help a friend do research on the history of documentary, and I'd like to introduce him to some of the more experimental side of the form. For his purposes, the work needs to available on video: he needs to see stuff, not just read about it, and he needs to be able to pull decent quality clips for presentation. So I'm not looking for more purely experimental films that have some actuality footage, but something more readily recognizable under a (very) broad rubric of 'documentary'. Something like Sonic Outlaws' or Odds of Recovery would be pretty central examples. About as far down the experimental scale I'd want to get would be such films as Window Water Baby Moving or Sink or Swim. (Thus, for example, Thigh Line Lyre Triangular is too 'far out' for this purpose.) I'd also welcome suggestions for essay-form docs beyond Marker (which I've already got). Another example of such might be Mulvey's 'Frida Kahlo / Tina Modotti With those loose guidelines, feel free to recommend away without worrying too much about the 'fit'. I can/will edit the recs I pass on... TIA! ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -- Bryan McManus *|* Filmmaker, Artist call 828.508.1129 write bryanhaysmcma...@gmail.com see bryanmcmanus.com ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Looking to build a list of 'Experimental Documentaries' on video
'Crooked Beauty' and 'For Shadows' by yours truly. Ken www.maddancementalhealthfilmtrilogy.com www.kenpaulrosenthal.com ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Looking to build a list of 'Experimental Documentaries' on video
Bryan McManus wrote: I'm not a well-represented somebody, not sure if that matters Alas, it does. My apologies for not being clear enough in the OP. My friend's project involves tracing 'the historical development of the documentary.' What that means is, in short, that the works to be discussed need to have been seen by enough people that they can be considered to have had some influence on the development of the form. That could either be due to some formal innovation or originality of approach that was followed in some ways by other makers, or using existing techniques/styles etc. in a particularly effective way that allows the film to connect with certain audiences. To give an example from NON-experimental docs, I'm going to recommend that Kevin consider Ed Pincus's Diaries, although very few people outside of a fairly narrow documentary community have ever seen it. But, of course, it was extremely influential in all the many different types of diary films that folowed. E.G. it sees to me you'd want to connect Ross McElwee back to Pincus, etc. (Speaking of diaries, I know George Kuchar made many diary films and videos, none of which I've seen (mea culpa). So I don't know how 'documentary' they are, or which of his works in that category would be considered the most exemplary/seen and discussed/ influential etc. etc.) You might describe his project as a sort of multi-media version of Barnouw, but with a more personal approach - more essay than 'objective' history. Part of Kevin's problem is that he's using Barnouw as a resource, and it's woefully outdated. I've forwarded him Pat Aufderheide's more recent Short Introduction To Documentary, but as with any overview, she includes some things I wouldn't and leaves out some things I'd want discusses. Anyway, I'm just a resource for the guy doing the actual project, trying to help him broaden the scope, and make it more up to date than, say, 1985. I just thought I'd poll the List in search of some perhaps-should-be-obvious stuff that hasn't popped into my now senior-moment-challenged mind. And, again, it's not a project about experimental-docs, though that would be a good project in and of itself. I just think Kevin out to put a little bit of the more experimental side of things into his 'big picture,' but in the end he may decide to do little or even none of that. Building a good list might help convince him that some attention to the more avant garde side ought to be included, you know, before we get to Ken Burns (yuchh!). I do hope no one who has suggested their own films feels slighted. I'm not in a position to be judgmental about Kevin's interests. His question is 'how did we get here?' not 'what's happening right now.' If the project was something like (to borrow an Alan Rosenthal-ish title) 'New Directions In 21ist Century Documentary', then I'd be eager to review and forward all your stuff. But it's not. I guess one way of saying it is that the question is probably more up the alley of folks thinking in programmer/curator/scholar mode rather than film artist mode. Not that these are mutuallu exclusive categories by any means: I do know lots of you own more than one hat. --- Another note: the operative defintion of documentary here does NOT include all work that uses the 'real' world as it's subject. There ought to be some forward movement of thought, if not a story, or an argument (essay form), then at least a process. (A beginning-middle and end, though not necessarily in that order as Godard would say) So, for example, Peter Hutton's films, while being pure actualities, are in this sense, not-docuemntaries. This would probably also filter out some works that are in the canon of experimental docs, to the extent that there is one, such as Bridges Go Round. It's a great work, but it doesn't really GO anywhere, if you know what I mean. And again, for the purposes of the project, the works have to be readily accessible in video form. And did I mention that this is a project that has no budget? So, basically I'm looking for stuff we can borrow from a library, rent from Facets/Le Video type sources, etc. For example, let's say I thought there was enough narrative development in some of David Gatten's films about the Byrds to consider them experimental documentaries. These films have been seen widely enough at festivals to be considered part of a broader film/culture discourse, if out at the avant garde edge. But David's a celluloid purist who doesn't distribute his film work in video form, so, no go. (In truth Gatten might be too 'far out' for Kevin, it's just the first example that came to mind). There's good and important stuff out there that remains accessible only through prints, which for merely pragmatic concerns will have to fall outside the scope of the project. This is not only a very limited budget project money-wise, but time-wise. Kevin is not an academic and is doing this as
Re: [Frameworks] Hand processing E6 as BW reversal
All colour films can be processed in BW chemistry to get a BW image. I've not really done much of it except for the odd time of a mistake when a colour short end got mislabeled as BW and the film was not as ancient as your stock. Why don't you just process a snip test of your ektachrome? You'll want to push it a stop for the age of the film and the image will still be rather flat compared to a true BW image. On Sunday, December 8, 2013 5:59:19 PM, Chris G spy...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I am wondering if anyone has experience/advice/formulas for processing E6 as BW reversal. I have some Ektachrome 160 (EM-26, so remjet) super 8 (expired in '97) that I'd like to experiment with. I haven't been able to find too much information and I've only processed BW negative and reversal before, so I lack color experience, but have a general working knowledge of these film types and realize that there will be some alteration in the process in consideration of the color layers. Thanks, Chris ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Hand processing E6 as BW reversal
I believe rocky mountain film labs in CO processes all those old ektachrome stocks as a black and white negative. The guy that runs Rocky mountain film labs, Steve, is very helpful and easy to talk to... I have called him in the past and he has been very nice, helpful, and easy to talk to Google their info and give him a call, but you'd better either record the call or be able to write fast cause he really has a wealth of information. BEST! lovejasonwade Please note: message attached From: John Woods jawood...@yahoo.ca To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Hand processing E6 as BW reversal Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 11:12:21 -0800 (PST) 1 Easy trick FIGHTS carbs 1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar decrease fat storage http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52c71445b8c63144522a4st01ducAll colour films can be processed in BW chemistry to get a BW image. I've not really done much of it except for the odd time of a mistake when a colour short end got mislabeled as BW and the film was not as ancient as your stock. Why don't you just process a snip test of your ektachrome? You'll want to push it a stop for the age of the film and the image will still be rather flat compared to a true BW image. On Sunday, December 8, 2013 5:59:19 PM, Chris G spy...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I am wondering if anyone has experience/advice/formulas for processing E6 as BW reversal. I have some Ektachrome 160 (EM-26, so remjet) super 8 (expired in '97) that I'd like to experiment with. I haven't been able to find too much information and I've only processed BW negative and reversal before, so I lack color experience, but have a general working knowledge of these film types and realize that there will be some alteration in the process in consideration of the color layers. Thanks, Chris ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Hand processing E6 as BW reversal
I am sorry to report that Rocky Mountain Film Labs shut down about two years back. They did lovely work and were always free to explain what they were doing in great detail. If I had E-6, I'd try running it through pincryptol yellow and then developing by inspection in D-76. Otherwise I'd take a few clip tests to develop in D-76 to get the development time correct. Develop until you get a nice black highlight with some highlight detail, don't worry about the shadows. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Hand processing E6 as BW reversal
Scott, Rocky mountain film labs is still open. They moved. I sat down and visited with Steve for about two hours less than two months ago when I was in Colorado. Small labs have a hard enough time as it is, please take the time to become better informed before you spread a rumor about struggling independent businesses closing. here is their website. http://www.rockymountainfilm.com/ -- Original Message -- From: Scott Dorsey klu...@panix.com To: jawood...@yahoo.ca, frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Hand processing E6 as BW reversal Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2014 14:56:43 -0500 I am sorry to report that Rocky Mountain Film Labs shut down about two years back. They did lovely work and were always free to explain what they were doing in great detail. If I had E-6, I'd try running it through pincryptol yellow and then developing by inspection in D-76. Otherwise I'd take a few clip tests to develop in D-76 to get the development time correct. Develop until you get a nice black highlight with some highlight detail, don't worry about the shadows. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks How to Sleep Like a Rock Obey this one natural trick to fall asleep and stay asleep all night. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52c719c06d9c219c07683st04duc ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Hand processing E6 as BW reversal
Indeed! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 3, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Jason Wade mexicanpi...@juno.com wrote: Scott, Rocky mountain film labs is still open. They moved. I sat down and visited with Steve for about two hours less than two months ago when I was in Colorado. Small labs have a hard enough time as it is, please take the time to become better informed before you spread a rumor about struggling independent businesses closing. here is their website. http://www.rockymountainfilm.com/ -- Original Message -- From: Scott Dorsey klu...@panix.com To: jawood...@yahoo.ca, frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Hand processing E6 as BW reversal Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2014 14:56:43 -0500 I am sorry to report that Rocky Mountain Film Labs shut down about two years back. They did lovely work and were always free to explain what they were doing in great detail. If I had E-6, I'd try running it through pincryptol yellow and then developing by inspection in D-76. Otherwise I'd take a few clip tests to develop in D-76 to get the development time correct. Develop until you get a nice black highlight with some highlight detail, don't worry about the shadows. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks How to Sleep Like a Rock Obey this one natural trick to fall asleep and stay asleep all night. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52c719c06d9c219c07683st04duc ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Hand processing E6 as BW reversal
What is the story? I called them a few years back and they told me that they were shutting down and not taking any more orders. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] R.I.P - sad news
Hello All, I¹ve not seen it mentioned here, but some sad news from Chicago. Experimental filmmaker, artist, and educator Michele (Shellie) Fleming passed away on Monday, December 30, after a long battle with cancer. Shellie was an extraordinary person, an accomplished filmmaker and artist, and, perhaps most importantly, a passionate, dedicated, and beloved instructor at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago for many years. Shellie¹s husband Zack Stiglicz, also an experimental film/video maker and artist, died several years ago now. http://www.saic.edu/~mflemi/Five_Films_Four_Scripts.pdf Best to All, Patrick Friel ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Hand processing E6 as BW reversal
Rocky Mountain Film Lab is back in business? I though their reputation as being quick to cash a check but it takes them several years to process film was the reason they shut down? There are so many complaints against RMFL that I'd be cautious about sending your film in. Try these guys: http://www.filmrescue.com/ On Friday, January 3, 2014 1:56:19 PM, Scott Dorsey klu...@panix.com wrote: What is the story? I called them a few years back and they told me that they were shutting down and not taking any more orders. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] R.I.P - sad news
I'm so sorry to hear this. Love to all Sent from my iPhone On Jan 3, 2014, at 8:37 PM, Joan Hawkins jchaw...@gmail.com wrote: thanks for posting this Patrick-- sad news. Joan On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Patrick Friel patrick.fr...@att.net wrote: Hello All, I’ve not seen it mentioned here, but some sad news from Chicago. Experimental filmmaker, artist, and educator Michele (Shellie) Fleming passed away on Monday, December 30, after a long battle with cancer. Shellie was an extraordinary person, an accomplished filmmaker and artist, and, perhaps most importantly, a passionate, dedicated, and beloved instructor at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago for many years. Shellie’s husband Zack Stiglicz, also an experimental film/video maker and artist, died several years ago now. http://www.saic.edu/~mflemi/Five_Films_Four_Scripts.pdf Best to All, Patrick Friel ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks -- Joan Hawkins Associate Professor Indiana University Dept of Communication and Culture 800 E. Third St Bloomington, IN 47405 office phone 812-855-1548 ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] exposed but not fully
HI Frameworkers. I have a bit of a manic question. I have some rolls of color neg, fuji 400T mostly. That I shot 1 as I like to say, layer, of images onto already, but they were shot 2 stops under because I was going to add other layers onto them. Well things have gotten rather crazy with other projects and stuff so even though it has already been several months, I wont be able to add the other layers of images for another month! I have been keeping them so far in a cold room. Just for my nerves I want to know if this footage is going to be totally fu#ked because it is taking me so long to get to finishing the rolls. Or will it just be a slight difference in contrast or something like that? Has anyone had experience where they have waited 6 months to finish a roll? I think I must have in the past but I can not really recall. So I pose the question to you all. Thanks! K ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
