Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 05:11:00PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: But if I remember my legal and ethics course correctly if you can arrive at a conclusion through your own research then your reasonably clear. For example, the drivers are closed source but the hardware itself is an entirely separate issue. So if you can create your own drivers by your own research into how the hardware is setup then the drivers created could licensed under your own terms- open source or otherwise. The drivers and hardware may operate together but are separate items of creativity, therefore do not operate under the same patent. Be very careful. Even in the US, where there's a presumption of innocence built into criminal law, the presumption of innocence doesn't apply in civil court. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Principle of Exclusion: The strength of any system is inversely proportional to the restrictions on the power of tools allowed to the general public by that system. pgp4Hm458TpGv.pgp Description: PGP signature
FreeBSD 7.1-RC1 rl0 watchdog timeout with custom kernel
Hello, all! I have Asus X51RL laptop with FreeBSD 7.1-RC1 installed. There were no troubles with GENERIC kernel, but when I've compiled custom kernel, rl ethernet driver tells to the console a lot of errors: rl0: link state changed to UP rl0: watchdog timeout rl0: watchdog timeout Any mistake? uname -a: FreeBSD asusbook.local 7.1-RC1 FreeBSD 7.1-RC1 #0: Mon Dec 15 08:40:11 MSK 2008 r...@asusbook.local:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386 pciconf -lv: r...@pci0:8:7:0:class=0x02 card=0x10451043 chip=0x813910ec rev=0x10 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Realtek Semiconductor' device = 'RT8139 (A/B/C/810x/813x/C+) Fast Ethernet Adapter' class = network subclass = ethernet dmesg from custom kernel (ASUSBOOK): Copyright (c) 1992-2008 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation. FreeBSD 7.1-RC1 #2: Sun Dec 14 20:13:33 MSK 2008 r...@asusbook.local:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/ASUSBOOK Timecounter i8254 frequency 1193182 Hz quality 0 CPU: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 550 @ 2.00GHz (1995.14-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = GenuineIntel Id = 0x10661 Stepping = 1 Features=0xafebfbffFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CLFLUSH,DTS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,TM,PBE Features2=0xe31dSSE3,DTES64,MON,DS_CPL,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM AMD Features=0x2000LM AMD Features2=0x1LAHF real memory = 2012905472 (1919 MB) avail memory = 1964134400 (1873 MB) kbd1 at kbdmux0 ath_hal: 0.10.5.6 (AR5210, AR5211, AR5212, AR5416, RF5111, RF5112, RF2413, RF5413, RF2133, RF2425, RF2417) acpi0: A.M.I OEMXSDT on motherboard acpi0: [ITHREAD] acpi0: Power Button (fixed) acpi0: reservation of 0, a (3) failed acpi0: reservation of 10, 77f0 (3) failed Timecounter ACPI-fast frequency 3579545 Hz quality 1000 acpi_timer0: 32-bit timer at 3.579545MHz port 0x808-0x80b on acpi0 acpi_ec0: Embedded Controller: GPE 0x11 port 0x62,0x66 on acpi0 acpi_asus0: Unsupported Asus laptop: X51RL pcib0: ACPI Host-PCI bridge port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 pci_link3: BIOS IRQ 10 for 0.19.INTD is invalid pci0: ACPI PCI bus on pcib0 pcib1: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 1.0 on pci0 pci1: ACPI PCI bus on pcib1 vgapci0: VGA-compatible display port 0x7800-0x78ff mem 0x9000-0x9fff,0xf88f-0xf88f irq 5 at device 5.0 on pci1 pcib2: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 4.0 on pci0 pci2: ACPI PCI bus on pcib2 ath0: Atheros 5424/2424 mem 0xf89f-0xf89f irq 11 at device 0.0 on pci2 ath0: [ITHREAD] ath0: WARNING: using obsoleted if_watchdog interface ath0: Ethernet address: 00:15:af:9e:d1:34 ath0: mac 14.2 phy 7.0 radio 10.2 pcib3: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 5.0 on pci0 pci3: ACPI PCI bus on pcib3 pcib4: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 6.0 on pci0 pci6: ACPI PCI bus on pcib4 pcib5: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 7.0 on pci0 pci7: ACPI PCI bus on pcib5 atapci0: ATI IXP600 SATA300 controller port 0xe800-0xe807,0xe400-0xe403,0xe000-0xe007,0xdc00-0xdc03,0xd800-0xd80f mem 0xfebffc00-0xfebf irq 3 at device 18.0 on pci0 atapci0: [ITHREAD] atapci0: AHCI Version 01.10 controller with 4 ports detected ata2: ATA channel 0 on atapci0 ata2: [ITHREAD] ata3: ATA channel 1 on atapci0 ata3: [ITHREAD] ata4: ATA channel 2 on atapci0 ata4: [ITHREAD] ata5: ATA channel 3 on atapci0 ata5: [ITHREAD] ohci0: OHCI (generic) USB controller mem 0xfebfe000-0xfebfefff irq 11 at device 19.0 on pci0 ohci0: [GIANT-LOCKED] ohci0: [ITHREAD] usb0: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb0: OHCI (generic) USB controller on ohci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: ATI OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 on usb0 uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered ohci1: OHCI (generic) USB controller mem 0xfebfd000-0xfebfdfff irq 5 at device 19.1 on pci0 ohci1: [GIANT-LOCKED] ohci1: [ITHREAD] usb1: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb1: OHCI (generic) USB controller on ohci1 usb1: USB revision 1.0 uhub1: ATI OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 on usb1 uhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered ohci2: OHCI (generic) USB controller mem 0xfebfc000-0xfebfcfff irq 4 at device 19.2 on pci0 ohci2: [GIANT-LOCKED] ohci2: [ITHREAD] usb2: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb2: OHCI (generic) USB controller on ohci2 usb2: USB revision 1.0 uhub2: ATI OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 on usb2 uhub2: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered ohci3: OHCI (generic) USB controller mem 0xfebfb000-0xfebfbfff irq 5 at device 19.3 on pci0 ohci3: [GIANT-LOCKED] ohci3: [ITHREAD] usb3: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb3: OHCI (generic) USB controller on ohci3 usb3: USB revision 1.0 uhub3: ATI OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 on usb3 uhub3: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered ohci4: OHCI (generic) USB controller mem 0xfebfa000-0xfebfafff irq 4 at device 19.4 on pci0 ohci4: [GIANT-LOCKED] ohci4: [ITHREAD]
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
I think that can be handled quite easily by community social pressure, and moderation would just set a precedent for it's someone else's job. moderation is needed. Things like community social pressure simply doesn't. Like with democracy - those who are more common and louder will takeover, no matter if it make sense or not. It's already happening on that group that's why i talk about starting moderation to remove all posts that are not about group topic! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
and exactly is needed on that group. it would be enough that moderator's job will be just removing posts that classify to NTG. NOTHING else. As long as neither you, nor anyone that thinks like you, is in charge of moderation, it might not be a *complete* disaster. of course it should be you to remove all my posts:) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
There are many constructive ways of improving FreeBSD. You have already submitted 7 bug reports in out bug database. If you think you can help of which at least 2 was completely ignored;) (no even response) by submitting *more* bug reports, testing FreeBSD patches, developing new FreeBSD code or writing FreeBSD documentation, you are more than welcome to do so. Driving FreeBSD users away because you think they are 'clueless morons' does *NOT* help. do help - as much as writing patches bug reports and documentation. You seem to have this twisted idea that FreeBSD is obliged to take a direction of elitism, that the FreeBSD Project is somehow supposed to do it will take a direction of elitism or it will be a useless crap. that's simple. Elitism isn't really good word here, because access to it isn't restricted depending of where you've born, how much money you have, what are your friends etc. You have just need to read documentation and start using it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 01:49:57PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I think the list you're looking for when you talk about only discussing the base-system already exists (probably stable or arch). This is freebsd questions- and the nature of the list according to the all-knowing handbook IS for newbies, people who probably won't understand the difference between third party and base. there is freebsd-newbies for this. this group is freebsd-question = questions about FreeBSD. Not quite. It is also the list one should use to ask FreeBSD-related questions when one is not sure which list is most appropriate for that particular question. I.e. freebsd-quesitions is for all FreeBSD-related questions, not only questions about the FreeBSD base system. -- Insert your favourite quote here. Erik Trulsson ertr1...@student.uu.se ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:06:58 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Now i'm using FreeBSD and it got better each version. Really better, not better. And i really want to keep it that way, because there is no alternative now! There are many constructive ways of improving FreeBSD. You have already submitted 7 bug reports in out bug database. If you think you can help by submitting *more* bug reports, testing FreeBSD patches, developing new FreeBSD code or writing FreeBSD documentation, you are more than welcome to do so. Driving FreeBSD users away because you think they are 'clueless morons' does *NOT* help. You seem to have this twisted idea that FreeBSD is obliged to take a direction of elitism, that the FreeBSD Project is somehow supposed to do what _you_ think should be its direction. I'm afraid things don't work this way. If you want to set the direction of the Project you will have to go through the usual channels (become a FreeBSD developer, write a substantial part of the OS, get elected to one of the managing teams, and see what you can do about the project direction _then_). When I say that FreeBSD is *not* a bunch elitist bastards and we do *not* like driving users away, I am aware of how serious it is to 'speak on behalf of the entire FreeBSD team'. If you still doubt this, we can bring it up with the Core team. Perhaps a more official statement will be enough to make you see that driving people away because 'they are stupid Window users' is *NOT* one of the goals of FreeBSD. pgpWon70XNREB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Unfortunately, anything covered by a patent, as I hinted above, is verboten. Er, doesn't it depend on what is patented? If the h/w itself is patented, but its software-visible interface is not, there should be no problem writing a driver for that h/w. OTOH if the algorithms used in the driver are patented it would be an infringement to reproduce them. But if I remember my legal and ethics course correctly if you can arrive at a conclusion through your own research then your reasonably clear. Not under patent, at least in the US, last I heard. (IANAL) A patent is infringed by any reproduction of the technology involved, even entirely independently. Someone described the justification as avoiding a situation in which it would pay to be ignorant of what others had done. For example, the drivers are closed source but the hardware itself is an entirely separate issue. So if you can create your own drivers by your own research into how the hardware is setup then the drivers created could licensed under your own terms- open source or otherwise. At least in the US, that works for copyright but not for patent. The drivers and hardware may operate together but are separate items of creativity, therefore do not operate under the same patent. Again, it depends on exactly what is patented (strictly speaking, what the patent's claims are.) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: install freebsd from inside another operating system
After some messing around with various efforts on the depenguinator I came up with this scheme for getting a freebsd boot using an external freebsd machine ie not using the target to create the boot. ##freebsd machine #get the freebsd bootonly location wget [use your local location]/7.1-RC1-i386-bootonly.iso #determine its size (in my case 39M) ls -l 7.1-RC1-i386-bootonly.iso #make an image file slightly larger dd if=/dev/zero of=fbsd.img bs=1k count=4 #create /dev/md0 connected to the image file mdconfig -a -t vnode -f fbsd.img -u 0 #lable it and make a file system thereon bsdlabel -w -B md0 auto newfs -m 0 md0a #make a mount point and then mount the new mem fs on it mkdir img mount /dev/md0a img #and check its usage etc etc df img #now make a mount point for the iso and connect it to md1 mkdir iso mdconfig -a -t vnode -f 7.1-RC1-i386-bootonly.iso -u 1 #and mount as cd mount_cd9660 /dev/md1 iso df iso #copy the iso to the image cp -pr iso/* img/ #clean up umount img iso mdconfig -d -u 0 mdconfig -d -u 1 #copy the image to the target scp fbsd.img m...@target:/tmp/ ### target machine ubuntu 8.10 in my case Now after logging in to the target and sudoing su mv /tmp/fbsd.img /boot cp /usr/lib/syslinux/memdisk /boot then edited /boot/grub/menu.lst to contain a new entry title FreeBSD root (hd0,0) kernel memdisk initrd /boot/fbsd.img On reboot I selected the FreeBSD entry and was pleasantly surprised to see the freebsd boot process happening just fine. I suppose with this setup (provided all stays connected) one can do a full install from a network whose parameters may be set up during the install. -- Robin Becker ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
base system: nothing appropriate Maybe what we need isn't for you to keep complaining about 70% of the very helpful list traffic, helpful for whom? thus producing another 5% of the list traffic yourself (directly, and indirectly through annoyed responses to you), but for someone to come up with a base-sys...@freebsd.org list where you can hang out and be happy. seems you actively like this mailing list to become big shit. You WELL know what i am talking about, and you just play with words. Because i AM very much feared about FreeBSD future not being like lots of other free software project, i will do everything to take all idiots, winusers, students that want comparision between different OS in few words (because they was required at school), questions about one of million of non-freebsd specific software, stupid discussion about windoze-like bloatware running under unix etc. etc. I really don't care about your opinion, just because it's THE ONLY GOOD UNIX LEFT IN THE WORLD now! There was linux many years ago, yes - less functional, but WELL DONE, they f...ked it up by quickly adding every stupid features requested. Then i switched to NetBSD, that worked excellent up to 1.5, and then got f..ked up even more than linux when started to be sponsored by wasabisystems and possibly other funny companies. They even changed the way versions are numbered to get higher numbers faster ;) Now i'm using FreeBSD and it got better each version. Really better, not better. And i really want to keep it that way, because there is no alternative now! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 12:54 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Most of them don't. Considering that, the moment someone shows up and says I'm a Windows user, but I'm thinking about trying out FreeBSD, you immediately assume the person doesn't want to learn without bothering to read any further, I yes. because if this person would like, he/she would read FreeBSD handbook first! Considering my comments previously regarding this list and the handbook's direction to here for support and questions, perhaps you should follow your own advice? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Upgrading 4.x install without doing clean reinstall?
I have a server that was running Free BSD 4.7 for a number of years. I DO NOT have easy physical access to it, its in a datacenter and i cant get to it myself or at this point rely on anyone there to put in a new install disk or anything. Ive replaced this server with a new one for production use, running 7.0, so now that this one is no longer live, id like to update it to 7.x so i can continue to use it as a dev box. However since i dont have direct access to it, i need to update it cleanly, so that it doesnt fall off the net or otherwise stop working during the process. Is there any clean way of doing this? If I have to upgrade to 5.x, then 6.x, then 7.x it will take forever and probably break something in the process. Can i make the jump directly, still keeping everything working? Thanks! Jen ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Renaming files with strange characters in dired-mode [was: Re: control character file names]
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 05:59:02 -0800, Noah adm...@enabled.com wrote: If you have customized `dired-listing-switches' try reverting it to a simpler set of options, like: (setq-default dired-listing-switches -lFa) The -b and -B options tend to confuse dired about what the *real* filename is, and may trigger this sort of error. thanks I placed that setq option in my .emacs and that works for renaming files and directories containing control character. I am unable to rename a directory that has nine '?'. What setq modification will allow emacs to change those type filenames? This seems like a dired problem. Are the characters _really_ the question mark character, or are they merely characters that are un-displayable in the current coding system? What do you see when you move the point on that filename and then type `C-u C-x ='? If the characters are really the question mark, then the informational buffer that pops up should include something like this: ,--- | character: ? (63, #o77, #x3f) | preferred charset: ascii (ASCII (ISO646 IRV)) |code point: 0x3F |syntax: . which means: punctuation | category: a:ASCII | ASCII graphic characters 32-126 (ISO646 IRV:1983[4/0]) l:Latin r:Roman | Japanese roman | buffer code: #x3F | file code: #x3F (encoded by coding system utf-8-emacs-unix) | display: terminal code #x3F | | Character code properties: customize what to show | name: QUESTION MARK | general-category: Po (Punctuation, Other) | | There are text properties here: | fontifiedt | `--- ASCII code 63 (octal #o77, hex #x3f) in this case is the question-mark character. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: control character file names
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 05:59:02 -0800, Noah adm...@enabled.com wrote: I am unable to rename a directory that has nine '?'. Maybe Midnight Commander - PF6: Rename - will do the job? (Workaround) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: control character file names
Polytropon wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 05:59:02 -0800, Noah adm...@enabled.com wrote: I am unable to rename a directory that has nine '?'. Maybe Midnight Commander - PF6: Rename - will do the job? (Workaround) okay I dont quite understand. what is midnight commander - PF6: Rename? Cheers, Noah ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Renaming files with strange characters in dired-mode [was: Re: control character file names]
Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 05:59:02 -0800, Noah adm...@enabled.com wrote: If you have customized `dired-listing-switches' try reverting it to a simpler set of options, like: (setq-default dired-listing-switches -lFa) The -b and -B options tend to confuse dired about what the *real* filename is, and may trigger this sort of error. thanks I placed that setq option in my .emacs and that works for renaming files and directories containing control character. I am unable to rename a directory that has nine '?'. What setq modification will allow emacs to change those type filenames? This seems like a dired problem. Are the characters _really_ the question mark character, or are they merely characters that are un-displayable in the current coding system? What do you see when you move the point on that filename and then type `C-u C-x ='? If the characters are really the question mark, then the informational buffer that pops up should include something like this: n...@tsunami:/mnt/mybook-music$ ls -lB | less total 1778688 drwxr-xr-x 3 noah noah 0 2005-01-09 15:26 ? -rwx-- 1 noah noah 1841776 2007-12-13 19:57 00_arditi-standards_of_triumph-2006-cd-amrc.jpg -rwx-- 1 noah noah 3223290 2007-12-13 20:02 00_arditi-standards_of_triumph-2006-front-amrc.jpg -rwx-- 1 noah noah 2989502 2007-12-13 20:07 00_arditi-standards_of_triumph-2006-inlay1-amrc.jpg Here is what is shown in emacs: character: ? (63, #o77, #x3f, U+003F) charset: ascii (ASCII (ISO646 IRV)) code point: #x3F syntax: . which means: punctuation category: a:ASCII graphic characters 32-126 (ISO646 IRV:1983[4/0]) l:Latin buffer code: #x3F file code: #x3F (encoded by coding system mule-utf-8) display: by this font (glyph code) -Adobe-Courier-Medium-R-Normal--12-120-75-75-M-70-ISO8859-1 (#x3F) There are text properties here: dired-filename t face dired-directory fontifiedt help-echomouse-2: visit this file in other window mouse-face highlight ,--- | character: ? (63, #o77, #x3f) | preferred charset: ascii (ASCII (ISO646 IRV)) |code point: 0x3F |syntax: . which means: punctuation | category: a:ASCII | ASCII graphic characters 32-126 (ISO646 IRV:1983[4/0]) l:Latin r:Roman | Japanese roman | buffer code: #x3F | file code: #x3F (encoded by coding system utf-8-emacs-unix) | display: terminal code #x3F | | Character code properties: customize what to show | name: QUESTION MARK | general-category: Po (Punctuation, Other) | | There are text properties here: | fontifiedt | `--- ASCII code 63 (octal #o77, hex #x3f) in this case is the question-mark character. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
can this thread be closed now? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:49:43 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: I think that can be handled quite easily by community social pressure, and moderation would just set a precedent for it's someone else's job. moderation is needed. Things like community social pressure simply doesn't. Like with democracy - those who are more common and louder will takeover, no matter if it make sense or not. Yes, and you have gone a long way in proving just that point. Your narrow minded, inability to accept anyone else's opinions that are even slightly ajar of your own preconceived concepts are a perfect example of your inability to work and play well with others. Actually, I like your reference to 'Democracy'. Coming from a socialist, the very thought of an open discussion on any matter that does not fit in your narrow parameters would seem objectionable. It's already happening on that group that's why i talk about starting moderation to remove all posts that are not about group topic! Might I suggest that we start with yours. I am all ready creating a KILL filter to rid my INBOX of your useless diatribe. Furthermore, I believe that your are the reason that vendors are not more interested in FreeBSD. How could any of them expect to reasonably work with a narrow minded, opinionated, buffoon like you? You concept of cooperation is: My way, or no way. -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com Speaking of purchasing a dog, never buy a watchdog that's on sale. After all, everyone knows a bargain dog never bites! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
freebsd-questions User questions and technical support Exactly. Note, however, that 'user questions' means something very different from what you are pushing to convince everybody else :-) so please start to answer every possible question. for example problems with windows ftp program. it's very FreeBSD-related, as user wanted to download something from server running FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: control character file names
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:14:32 -0800, Noah adm...@enabled.com wrote: Polytropon wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 05:59:02 -0800, Noah adm...@enabled.com wrote: I am unable to rename a directory that has nine '?'. Maybe Midnight Commander - PF6: Rename - will do the job? (Workaround) okay I dont quite understand. what is midnight commander - PF6: Rename? Sorry for being to briefly. 1. The Midnight Commander is a curses based file manager that might be a workaround for the problem you can't solve using Emacs at the moment. It can be installed via ports or (more simple) from packages using pkg_add -r mc. The command to run it is mc. 2. PF6 (or F6) refers to the programmable function key number 6 which has the function to move or rename files (in the Midnight Commander). By the way, for deleting a directory, PF8 (or F8) - Delete - can be useful. I'm not sure if the MC can be troubled by control characters in filenames, but up to this point, I found nothing the MC couldn't delete anyway. :-) I hope I didn't explain too stupidly, I don't want to sound impolite. Of course I cannot assume anyone to know what a Midnight Commander is or what PF keys (IBM and robotron terminology) are... -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: imagemagick convert: japanese text broken in freebsd
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 6:21 AM, Giorgos Keramidas keram...@ceid.upatras.gr wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:17:38 -0800, Charlie Kester corky1...@comcast.net wrote: The conversations on ports@ seem to be mostly concerned with the needs of port maintainers rather than the users of ports. If you have problems getting a port to build or a package added, it feels like the right place to get help. But I'm not sure whether it's the place for questions that come up after the initial install. questions@ seems to be the place for those. I think you got that right. lists.freebsd.org says: freebsd-ports Porting software to FreeBSD freebsd-questions User questions It's nice to have a list for people who are *porting* software, but the list for general `user questions' is here. I certainly agree, and hope every time Wojciech posts NTG or OT the OP's thread doesn't get turned into a flamewar on Where this post should go.. -- Glen Barber ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: control character file names
Hi there, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:52:01 -0800, Noah adm...@enabled.com wrote: * Use a file manager. I often use `dired-mode' inside an Emacs session to move around, copy, re-organize, rename or delete files. Any file manager that can display several character sets at once will do fine :) Hey there Giorgos, I'd love to use emacs but I go into 'dired-mode' and I try to rename the ^M' directory and receive an error from emacs. The error claims file-error Renaming no such file or directory /mnt/mybook-music/^M /mnt/mybook-music/Music2 What do I do? If you have customized `dired-listing-switches' try reverting it to a simpler set of options, like: (setq-default dired-listing-switches -lFa) The -b and -B options tend to confuse dired about what the *real* filename is, and may trigger this sort of error. thanks I placed that setq option in my .emacs and that works for renaming files and directories containing control character. I am unable to rename a directory that has nine '?'. What setq modification will allow emacs to change those type filenames? Cheers, Noah ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: imagemagick convert: japanese text broken in freebsd
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:17:38 -0800, Charlie Kester corky1...@comcast.net wrote: The conversations on ports@ seem to be mostly concerned with the needs of port maintainers rather than the users of ports. If you have problems getting a port to build or a package added, it feels like the right place to get help. But I'm not sure whether it's the place for questions that come up after the initial install. questions@ seems to be the place for those. I think you got that right. lists.freebsd.org says: freebsd-ports Porting software to FreeBSD freebsd-questions User questions It's nice to have a list for people who are *porting* software, but the list for general `user questions' is here. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Most of them don't. Considering that, the moment someone shows up and says I'm a Windows user, but I'm thinking about trying out FreeBSD, you immediately assume the person doesn't want to learn without bothering to read any further, I yes. because if this person would like, he/she would read FreeBSD handbook first! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
I.e. freebsd-quesitions is for all FreeBSD-related questions, not only questions about the FreeBSD base system. from handbook: freebsd-questions User questions and technical support ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: control character file names
Sorry for being to briefly. 1. The Midnight Commander is a curses based file manager that might be a workaround for the problem you can't solve using Emacs at the moment. It can be installed via ports or (more simple) from packages using pkg_add -r mc. The command to run it is mc. 2. PF6 (or F6) refers to the programmable function key number 6 which has the function to move or rename files (in the Midnight Commander). By the way, for deleting a directory, PF8 (or F8) - Delete - can be useful. I'm not sure if the MC can be troubled by control characters in filenames, but up to this point, I found nothing the MC couldn't delete anyway. :-) I hope I didn't explain too stupidly, I don't want to sound impolite. Of course I cannot assume anyone to know what a Midnight Commander is or what PF keys (IBM and robotron terminology) are... cool - that worked. thanks for the verbosity :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
It's already happening on that group that's why i talk about starting moderation to remove all posts that are not about group topic! Group topic? As far as I can tell, the topic is user questions about FreeBSD (according to http://lists.freebsd.org/ and the List-Id header). Where exactly is it defined what those questions may be about? -- Benjamin M. A'Lee || mail: b...@subvert.org.uk web: http://subvert.org.uk/~bma/ || gpg: 0xBB6D2FA0 ...when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong. -- Richard Dawkins ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:49:57 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: I think the list you're looking for when you talk about only discussing the base-system already exists (probably stable or arch). This is freebsd questions- and the nature of the list according to the all-knowing handbook IS for newbies, people who probably won't understand the difference between third party and base. there is freebsd-newbies for this. this group is freebsd-question = questions about FreeBSD. That's THAT simple, unless you like it to be more complicated. No there isn't. The freebsd-newbies list has been merged with freebsd-questions for several years now. You could have easily verified this by following the link to: http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies For one more time, please stop spreading misinformation. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
moderation is needed. Things like community social pressure simply doesn't. Like with democracy - those who are more common and louder will takeover, no matter if it make sense or not. Yes, and you have gone a long way in proving just that point. Your narrow minded, inability to accept anyone else's opinions that are even slightly ajar of your own preconceived concepts are a perfect example of your inability to work and play well with others. just because my opinion is other than yours :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 19:21 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:39:26AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: Hence why I tend to send really green unix newbies to linux school than grind their teeth on FreeBSD straight up. Let em get their skills and experience in how *nix in general works on something a little easier (for MIB lovers: noisy cricket), then move up to the big guns. Why not send them to something like DesktopBSD or PC-BSD, or even FreeSBIE (if that project is still around)? If they go to some chintzy user-obsequious Linux distribution like PCLinuxOS first, they'll just have more stuff to unlearn *if* it ever occurs to them to give some BSD Unix variant a try -- and if they haven't been poisoned against BSD Unix systems by GNU/FSF propaganda in the meantime. I doubt it. Knowing how linux works, they'll get sick of its layout and config and appreciate the BSD way once they get the hang of handling *nix methods. The hardware issues are across all those BSD platforms, which makes it tougher for newbies coming from the handfed world. Unlearning is _real_ easy when the config and layout is shit. As for the GNU philosophy, consider Ubuntu popularity versus Fedora. Fedora takes the high road, and Ubuntu allows the users to subscribe to extra repositories of software- guess which users prefer? The threads for these arguments on the Fedora list exceed even this one in length! FreeBSD ports- you can install pretty much whatever license type in software you want, as long as someone has setup a port for it. Users consider THAT freedom. Plus, if you compile your own software there is a clear place to install it, not wandering in confusion between /usr, /opt, /usr/local, and any other variation of these (and maybe more...). I think freebsd is great, but if you haven't clue about *nix don't waste time- get some bearings first on a simple similar system which offers more user friendly features and all the cli stuff, then try the real thing. Don't worry- those worth their salt will return, the rest will stay where they're happy. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: GPL version 4
I don't think it is that bad - the intent is for the software to be freely available for *people* to use. It is actually about our freedom. You have it right. Copyleft licenses defend freedom for all users by stopping middlemen from stripping it away. We have no plans for a version 4 of the GNU GPL. It might happen some day, but we are not working on it. As of now, we do not need to change GPL version 3. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
That's THAT simple, unless you like it to be more complicated. No there isn't. The freebsd-newbies list has been merged with freebsd-questions for several years now. You could have easily verified this by following the link to: http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies sorry, i was sure it exist, but wasn't aware because i never wanted to subscribe to freebsd-newbies. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
When I say that FreeBSD is *not* a bunch elitist bastards and we do *not* like driving users away, I am aware of how serious it is to 'speak on behalf of the entire FreeBSD team' I speak only for myself. As i already wrote, i don't want FreeBSD to be turned into mainstream crap, because there are no other unices to replace it now. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Why not send them to something like DesktopBSD or PC-BSD, or even FreeSBIE (if that project is still around)? If they go to some chintzy user-obsequious Linux distribution like PCLinuxOS first, they'll just have more stuff to unlearn *if* it ever occurs to them to give some BSD Unix variant a try -- and if they haven't been poisoned against BSD Unix systems by GNU/FSF propaganda in the meantime. it doesn't mean if they get poisoned or not. They don't care. They don't even understand the difference. They don't like to learn ANYTHING. They THINK they understand windows, and they THINK that's natural way of computing. They heard that linux/unix is better. That's all. sent them whatever you think, just far away from projects like FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Heh. The customer is /always/ right, even when they're wrong. The difference is that you give the idiot customers exactly what they ask for, and the good customers what they actually need which cannot be done. you choose idiots or good customers, as it's effectively 2 market niches. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: control character file names
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:52:01 -0800, Noah adm...@enabled.com wrote: * Use a file manager. I often use `dired-mode' inside an Emacs session to move around, copy, re-organize, rename or delete files. Any file manager that can display several character sets at once will do fine :) Hey there Giorgos, I'd love to use emacs but I go into 'dired-mode' and I try to rename the ^M' directory and receive an error from emacs. The error claims file-error Renaming no such file or directory /mnt/mybook-music/^M /mnt/mybook-music/Music2 What do I do? If you have customized `dired-listing-switches' try reverting it to a simpler set of options, like: (setq-default dired-listing-switches -lFa) The -b and -B options tend to confuse dired about what the *real* filename is, and may trigger this sort of error. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 02:16 -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Unfortunately, anything covered by a patent, as I hinted above, is verboten. Er, doesn't it depend on what is patented? If the h/w itself is patented, but its software-visible interface is not, there should be no problem writing a driver for that h/w. OTOH if the algorithms used in the driver are patented it would be an infringement to reproduce them. But if I remember my legal and ethics course correctly if you can arrive at a conclusion through your own research then your reasonably clear. Not under patent, at least in the US, last I heard. (IANAL) A patent is infringed by any reproduction of the technology involved, even entirely independently. Someone described the justification as avoiding a situation in which it would pay to be ignorant of what others had done. If you have done your own research then the algorithms wouldn't necessarily be the same- they'd nearly certainly be different, wouldn't they? So isn't that the basis for the patent? A patent is a registration of an idea. Two different ideas can still arrive at the same conclusion. For example, the drivers are closed source but the hardware itself is an entirely separate issue. So if you can create your own drivers by your own research into how the hardware is setup then the drivers created could licensed under your own terms- open source or otherwise. At least in the US, that works for copyright but not for patent. The drivers and hardware may operate together but are separate items of creativity, therefore do not operate under the same patent. Again, it depends on exactly what is patented (strictly speaking, what the patent's claims are.) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
I think the list you're looking for when you talk about only discussing the base-system already exists (probably stable or arch). This is freebsd questions- and the nature of the list according to the all-knowing handbook IS for newbies, people who probably won't understand the difference between third party and base. there is freebsd-newbies for this. this group is freebsd-question = questions about FreeBSD. That's THAT simple, unless you like it to be more complicated. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 12:49 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I think that can be handled quite easily by community social pressure, and moderation would just set a precedent for it's someone else's job. moderation is needed. Things like community social pressure simply doesn't. Like with democracy - those who are more common and louder will takeover, no matter if it make sense or not. It's already happening on that group that's why i talk about starting moderation to remove all posts that are not about group topic! I think the list you're looking for when you talk about only discussing the base-system already exists (probably stable or arch). This is freebsd questions- and the nature of the list according to the all-knowing handbook IS for newbies, people who probably won't understand the difference between third party and base. I started here myself a long time ago, I wouldn't have the foggiest what you'd be on about if I'd have come across your comments. I hardly do now if it's any consolation, but thats more disbelief than lack of knowledge or willingness to learn. Another fact on this matter is the very point of why the reply-to of this list is not to the list itself (a matter for argument which has resurfaced on a regular basis): one does not have to be actually subscribed to this list to post to it. So of course the really fresh and uncertain ARE going to come here- this is THE first port of call. And all of this is IN the handbook. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 02:11 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 05:11:00PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: But if I remember my legal and ethics course correctly if you can arrive at a conclusion through your own research then your reasonably clear. For example, the drivers are closed source but the hardware itself is an entirely separate issue. So if you can create your own drivers by your own research into how the hardware is setup then the drivers created could licensed under your own terms- open source or otherwise. The drivers and hardware may operate together but are separate items of creativity, therefore do not operate under the same patent. Be very careful. Even in the US, where there's a presumption of innocence built into criminal law, the presumption of innocence doesn't apply in civil court. Well thats what they teach in university- recently too. If you can show evidence that you arrived at your own conclusion without reverse engineering then your free and clear. Keep in mind though that that IS only in theory... although I personally would consider that just. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 12:49:43PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I think that can be handled quite easily by community social pressure, and moderation would just set a precedent for it's someone else's job. moderation is needed. Things like community social pressure simply doesn't. Like with democracy - those who are more common and louder will takeover, no matter if it make sense or not. It's already happening on that group that's why i talk about starting moderation to remove all posts that are not about group topic! Group topic? As far as I can tell, the topic is user questions (according to http://lists.freebsd.org/ and the List-Id header). Where exactly is it defined what those questions may be about? -- Benjamin M. A'Lee || mail: b...@subvert.org.uk web: http://subvert.org.uk/~bma/ || gpg: 0xBB6D2FA0 ...when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong. -- Richard Dawkins ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
That might be a valid concern if your notion of off topic didn't include things that pretty much everyone else seems to think is on topic enough to fit into this list. do we have to start deciding what's on-topic by voting? congratulations i don't mean moderation like removing one opinions and not others. But removing off-topic messages, that are 95% now or more. 1. When moderation is increased, so too are false positives -- like removing statements of opinion that shouldn't be removed. there are always false positives. but everything is better than democracy=what most say is right is considered right. 2. Your idea of off topic seems to include stuff relevant to FreeBSD. not revelant. will you start support my program just because it can be compiled on FreeBSD? it's nonsense. so stop supporting third party non-freebsd specific software just because it can be compiled under FreeBSD!! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Actually, Pentium M processors may well be the best x86-compatible CPUs of their generation -- low power consumption relative to the competition, and the best performance per dollar in their class. Pentium 4, though, certainly sucks. as having pentium-M laptop and pentium-4 server i can only say - you are exactly right. in real load my 1200Mhz laptop isn't much slower than 3Ghz pentium-4 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Uptime logging with (maybe) ppp's log functionality
Hi! I'm going to setup a system with a dial-up modem for sporadic Internet access; a provider that charges per second online time is used. Is there a way ppp (which is used for dialing) can log the online time (or at least the connection's start and stop time) so the costs can be calculated? Furthermore, are there already tools that, for example, would use the daily, weekly or monthly periodic jobs to inform via mail about how much online time was spent? Or, in addition, how much money this would mean (built-in calculation)? If it doesn't already exist, I'm sure I'll code it. :-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:06:52 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: I.e. freebsd-quesitions is for all FreeBSD-related questions, not only questions about the FreeBSD base system. from handbook: freebsd-questions User questions and technical support Exactly. Note, however, that 'user questions' means something very different from what you are pushing to convince everybody else :-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
i don't think that has to happen at all. personally i think self-moderation is best, followed by moderation (which i haven't found to be a bad thing). here the former seems to be dominant because of the quality of people on the list, so it is quite sufficient. this quality gets down. not because lots of smart people get dumber, but because lots of new people comes, mostly those who heard about FreeBSD being better than windows etc.. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:04:52 -0700 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 08:57:28PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: bad (TM). No -- at *any* level: you are wrong. for example you WILL like to control what oficially your employees ktalk about your company. That's not censorship -- it's a nondisclosure agreement. There are users on this list who would love to see users of FBSD bound by an NDA so that they could not say anything these self appointed CENSORS consider verboten. -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com Absence in love is like water upon fire; a little quickens, but much extinguishes it. Hannah More signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
That's not censorship -- it's a nondisclosure agreement. There are users on this list who would love to see users of FBSD bound by an NDA so that they could not say anything these self appointed CENSORS consider verboten. you are excellent at messing things up. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:12:16 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: freebsd-questions User questions and technical support Exactly. Note, however, that 'user questions' means something very different from what you are pushing to convince everybody else :-) so please start to answer every possible question. for example problems with windows ftp program. it's very FreeBSD-related, as user wanted to download something from server running FreeBSD. I don't know why you are so certain that the FTP server has no bugs at all, and why it is worthless to spend some time troubleshooting this further. It may sound surprising but this sort of thing may actually lead to an *improved* FreeBSD system by finding bugs that are triggered by the particular combination of client server. If this doesn't sound interesting to you, then that's ok. You shouldn't feel that it is a duty of yours to do anything about it. All I'm asking in this and previous posts is that you don't take such a strong stance against *others* who may feel inclined to help with the particular issue. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Upgrading 4.x install without doing clean reinstall?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote: | I have a server that was running Free BSD 4.7 for a number of years. I | DO NOT have easy physical access to it, its in a datacenter and i cant get | to it myself or at this point rely on anyone there to put in a new install | disk or anything. | | Ive replaced this server with a new one for production use, running | 7.0, so now that this one is no longer live, id like to update it to 7.x so i | can continue to use it as a dev box. However since i dont have direct | access to it, i need to update it cleanly, so that it doesnt fall off the | net or otherwise stop working during the process. | | Is there any clean way of doing this? If I have to upgrade to 5.x, then | 6.x, then 7.x it will take forever and probably break something in the | process. Can i make the jump directly, still keeping everything working? Given that the machine started life running 4.7 its hard drives are probably pretty elderly by now. So why not build a new 7.0 system off-line on a brand new disk, copying all of the necessary configuration info from the old machine. Then send the replacement HDD to your datacenter and have the hard drive physically swapped out? If it all goes horribly wrong then your backout path is simply to replace the original hard drive. This will involve perhaps an hours downtime -- less if you have hot-swap drives. Given that it's a development box I'd hope that isn't a show-stopper. Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. Flat 3 ~ 7 Priory Courtyard PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate ~ Kent, CT11 9PW, UK -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREDAAYFAklGKqwACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxW9gCeMEqkNrIwXVQEd6jkkmBPROMH MUMAnA4FcyKp+FKv5jePhfGuEQ+AMRYy =uWOi -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Uptime logging with (maybe) ppp's log functionality
I'm going to setup a system with a dial-up modem for sporadic
Internet access; a provider that charges per second online time
is used. Is there a way ppp (which is used for dialing) can log
the online time (or at least the connection's start and stop time)
so the costs can be calculated?
option a:
simply make a script (say ppp-bill.sh) that will browse through logs and
search for lines indicating connection and disconnect
option b:
you may put anything to /etc/ppp/ppp.link{up,down} scripts, for example
linkup could record current time, then linkdown substract it from what
linkup recorded, multiply by price and you have logged how much each
connection cost you
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Re: FreeBSD 7.1-RC1 rl0 watchdog timeout with custom kernel
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:31:16AM +0300, Gennady Kudryashoff wrote: Hello, all! I have Asus X51RL laptop with FreeBSD 7.1-RC1 installed. There were no troubles with GENERIC kernel, but when I've compiled custom kernel, rl ethernet driver tells to the console a lot of errors: rl0: link state changed to UP rl0: watchdog timeout rl0: watchdog timeout Any mistake? Have you looked at the manual page for this driver? (try running 'man rl' in a (x-)terminal). I quote: rl%d: watchdog timeout The device has stopped responding to the network, or there is a problem with the network connection (cable). I recently dumped an rl based card because it didn't work properly (upload speed sucked). Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpgUxb2EOX9s.pgp Description: PGP signature
Running rsnapshot via cron reboots the machine
Hi, I have a machine AMD Sepron LE-1150 ASUS M2A-VM 1GB RAM ECC 2x SATA 300GB in a RAID 1 (gmirror). 7.0-RELEASE-p2 AMD64 generic kernel it was doing backups via bacula to an external disk USB 2.0 SATA disk, and it was working well. (GLabel) /dev/ufs/BackupDisk I changed to rsnapshot recently, with the External HDD in glabel + gjournal (/dev/da0s1.journal - /dev/ufs/BackupDisk) and it will reboot the machine roughly 30 minutes after the rsnapshot starts via CRON. If i run rsnapshot without CRON, eg. via the command line it works fine. (I'm compiling the new kernel p6 whilst doing an rsnapshot via the command line) I have changed the time it does the rsnapshot, from 3AM (reboots at 3:30-3:40AM roughly) to 4:30AM (reboots at 5AM roughly). So its nothing running on the system doing it. If i remove the rsnapshot from the CRON, the computer stays on and doesn't reboot. Its not the power supply, and the computer is on a UPS and the UPS log hasn't reported any blackouts. (There are 2 other servers that doesn't turn off so its not a blackout). I left gstat and top running L(q) ops/sr/s kBps ms/rw/s kBps ms/w %busy Name 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| acd0 0125125 41645.5 0 00.0 29.9| ad4 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| ad4s1 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| ad4s2 0125125 41645.6 0 00.0 30.5| ad4s3 34142 71 90799.4 71 8697 212.0 99.3| da0 34142 71 90799.6 71 8697 213.5 99.3| da0s1 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| da0s1c 7135 71 90799.7 64 8184 33.0 85.1| da0s1.journal 0125125 41649.2 0 00.0 39.8| ad6 7135 71 90799.7 64 8184 36.2 91.9| ufs/BackupDisk 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| ad6s1 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| ad6s2 0125125 41649.3 0 00.0 40.4| ad6s3 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| mirror/gm0s1 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| mirror/gm0s2 0125125 83289.9 0 00.0 43.9| mirror/gm0s3 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| mirror/gm0s1a 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| mirror/gm0s1b 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| mirror/gm0s1c 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| mirror/gm0s1d 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| mirror/gm0s2c 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| mirror/gm0s2d 0 0 0 00.0 0 00.00.0| mirror/gm0s3c 0125125 8328 10.2 0 00.0 45.2| mirror/gm0s3d last pid: 18829; load averages: 0.29, 0.45, 0.50 up 1+01:31:23 05:01:50 64 processes: 1 running, 63 sleeping CPU states: 16.5% user, 0.0% nice, 25.2% system, 3.0% interrupt, 55.3% idle Mem: 69M Active, 436M Inact, 395M Wired, 44M Cache, 108M Buf, 3944K Free Swap: 2048M Total, 308K Used, 2048M Free PID USERNAME THR PRI NICE SIZERES STATETIME WCPU COMMAND 18634 root1 -40 15224K 2244K getblk 0:45 9.47% rsync 18633 root1 980 18296K 4576K select 0:45 4.69% rsync 18375 root1 80 20556K 8412K wait 7:20 0.00% perl 4447 root1 -640 7656K 2036K RUN 1:21 0.00% top 4321 root1 80 11784K 2008K nanslp 0:45 0.00% gstat 18627 root1 960 15224K 2596K select 0:36 0.00% rsync 4219 evxadmin1 960 32936K 3220K select 0:07 0.00% sshd 3800 evxadmin1 960 32936K 3164K select 0:06 0.00% sshd 18629 root1 960 32868K 3964K select 0:04 0.00% sshd 18628 root1 960 23764K 7664K select 0:04 0.00% ssh 851 root1 960 12476K 1832K select 0:04 0.00% nmbd 1788 root1 960 10576K 2812K select 0:02 0.00% sendmail 1147 root1 960 24456K 2404K select 0:01 0.00% nmbd 1346 root1 960 4K 2504K select 0:01 0.00% nmbd 3957 evxadmin1 960 32936K 3220K select 0:01 0.00% sshd 1800 root1 80 5736K 1032K nanslp 0:01 0.00% cron 1754 root1 80 5736K 980K nanslp 0:00 0.00% cron 1557 root1 80 5736K 980K nanslp 0:00 0.00% cron 1387 root1 80 5736K 980K nanslp 0:00 0.00% cron 1192 root1 80 5736K 980K nanslp 0:00 0.00% cron 4646 root1 960 36968K 4892K select 0:00 0.00% smbd 775 root1 960 4684K 1064K select 0:00 0.00% syslogd Nothing else seems to be running. Its driving me insane! any help would be appreciated. smart says the HDD are fine.
Re: Disk Errors
Wojciech Puchar wrote: ad2: FAILURE - READ_DMA timed out LBA=0 ad2: TIMEOUT - READ_DMA retrying (1 retry left) LBA=1 ad2: TIMEOUT - READ_DMA retrying (0 retries left) LBA=1 The flash drive is detected with 3940272 sectors. Is there a way to control the LBA= parameter? Does it matter if I try? no. How can I control the number of retries? I read that FreeBSD doesn't use the BIOS at least for CHS. Does FreeBSD use the BIOS for PIO and UDMA modes? no. try disabling dma with set hw.ata.ata_dma=0 bootloader command ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Aloha, Wojciech, could be on the right track. I have recently had to do this on several different FreeBSd server boxes to stop these errors. Both current FreeBSD 7 and 8 have done this. Hardware didnt seem to matter. ~Al Plant - Honolulu, Hawaii - Phone: 808-284-2740 + http://hawaiidakine.com + http://freebsdinfo.org + + http://aloha50.net - Supporting - FreeBSD 6.* - 7.* - 8.* + email: n...@hdk5.net All that's really worth doing is what we do for others.- Lewis Carrol ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Firebird client fails port install
Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: I'm trying to install php5-extensions (which includes firebird), but its failing with an error code 1 on firebird20-client. It does mention running make to build firebird, but not as root. So I've tried everything to get this to work: running make as my wheel group user, installing as a pkg instead. What could I be missing? (And before anybody asks: I ran portsnap fetch update twice yesterday - and I did run the update. I've learnt my lesson from last time...) Unless you set variables to put the work directory somewhere non-standard, the ports system will try to do its building under each port's directory, which is normally not writable by regular users. Similarly, installing a port (or a package, for the same reasons) normally requires root permissions for access to system directories and in many cases to let programs installed by ports run as special-purpose users. What is the reason you're trying to install ports as a different user? -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD 7.1-RC1 rl0 watchdog timeout with custom kernel
Gennady Kudryashoff glothlor...@mail.ru writes: Hello, all! I have Asus X51RL laptop with FreeBSD 7.1-RC1 installed. There were no troubles with GENERIC kernel, but when I've compiled custom kernel, rl ethernet driver tells to the console a lot of errors: rl0: link state changed to UP rl0: watchdog timeout rl0: watchdog timeout Any mistake? The rl driver supports some really terrible hardware, so I'm far from convinced that your custom kernel is causing the problems. Perhaps you could check by switching back to a GENERIC kernel for a while. -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
questions about some archive files, type *.rar
guys, last friday i found a public domain DVD-ROM of books available for free d/l. turns out there were 13 huge files in rar files. I have all. can these be catted together and the unrard to form the original? Oh: there was another version using bit-torrent, but that was taking a long LONG time and stalled, so next time is a question about this stuff. note that the torrent file was also in *rar format, so i'm back to the original quandry... if anybody knows what an rar file is, would you please hit me up with a clue or two? tia, gary -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org The 2.12a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 12:53:39PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: and exactly is needed on that group. it would be enough that moderator's job will be just removing posts that classify to NTG. NOTHING else. As long as neither you, nor anyone that thinks like you, is in charge of moderation, it might not be a *complete* disaster. of course it should be you to remove all my posts:) I wouldn't remove all your posts. You've said five or six things that were on-topic. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Friedrich Nietzche: Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity. pgp9sKmaZB7sw.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: questions about some archive files, type *.rar
just use unrar under archivers in ports collection. dont have to cat all the rar files together, unrar can un-compress it in sequence and generate the original files. TFC On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote: guys, last friday i found a public domain DVD-ROM of books available for free d/l. turns out there were 13 huge files in rar files. I have all. can these be catted together and the unrard to form the original? Oh: there was another version using bit-torrent, but that was taking a long LONG time and stalled, so next time is a question about this stuff. note that the torrent file was also in *rar format, so i'm back to the original quandry... if anybody knows what an rar file is, would you please hit me up with a clue or two? tia, gary -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org The 2.12a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 01:16:23PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: It's already happening on that group that's why i talk about starting moderation to remove all posts that are not about group topic! Group topic? As far as I can tell, the topic is user questions about FreeBSD Apparently you haven't noticed, but it doesn't say about the FreeBSD Base System. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth H. L. Mencken: In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. pgp7OFzacbQLw.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 08:14:10PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 19:21 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:39:26AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: Hence why I tend to send really green unix newbies to linux school than grind their teeth on FreeBSD straight up. Let em get their skills and experience in how *nix in general works on something a little easier (for MIB lovers: noisy cricket), then move up to the big guns. Why not send them to something like DesktopBSD or PC-BSD, or even FreeSBIE (if that project is still around)? If they go to some chintzy user-obsequious Linux distribution like PCLinuxOS first, they'll just have more stuff to unlearn *if* it ever occurs to them to give some BSD Unix variant a try -- and if they haven't been poisoned against BSD Unix systems by GNU/FSF propaganda in the meantime. I doubt it. Knowing how linux works, they'll get sick of its layout and config and appreciate the BSD way once they get the hang of handling *nix methods. The hardware issues are across all those BSD platforms, which makes it tougher for newbies coming from the handfed world. Unlearning is _real_ easy when the config and layout is shit. Tell that to the uncountable hordes of dedicated Linux users who don't know what they're missing and, as such, see no reason to even give FreeBSD a try. As for the GNU philosophy, consider Ubuntu popularity versus Fedora. Fedora takes the high road, and Ubuntu allows the users to subscribe to extra repositories of software- guess which users prefer? The threads for these arguments on the Fedora list exceed even this one in length! FreeBSD ports- you can install pretty much whatever license type in software you want, as long as someone has setup a port for it. Users consider THAT freedom. So, we end up splitting the potential FreeBSD users between Ubuntu and Fedora with more of them going to Ubuntu because not quite as many become faithful members of the GPL flock. Great. I take it you don't actually talk to Ubuntu users much, too. Lots of them are deeply invested in this copyleft thing. You don't have to use nonfree software to use Ubuntu, y'know. Plus, if you compile your own software there is a clear place to install it, not wandering in confusion between /usr, /opt, /usr/local, and any other variation of these (and maybe more...). I think freebsd is great, but if you haven't clue about *nix don't waste time- get some bearings first on a simple similar system which offers more user friendly features and all the cli stuff, then try the real thing. Don't worry- those worth their salt will return, the rest will stay where they're happy. That's why I'd recommend PC-BSD first, for most new Unix users. As an example contrary to your own, it took me *years* to get around to trying out FreeBSD once I got into Linux-land -- and someone only slightly less interested in getting out from under the GPL than I was, in the same circumstances, might *never* give it a try. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Marvin Minsky: . . . anyone could learn Lisp in 1 day, except that if they already knew Fortran, it would take 3 days. pgpgENzw5hLiB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 02:13:03PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: That's THAT simple, unless you like it to be more complicated. No there isn't. The freebsd-newbies list has been merged with freebsd-questions for several years now. You could have easily verified this by following the link to: http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies sorry, i was sure it exist, but wasn't aware because i never wanted to subscribe to freebsd-newbies. Funny -- I read you suggesting that it might exist, and wanted to go sign up for it so I could help out. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Thomas McCauley: The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out. pgpHEgtx8yA8g.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 12:53:01PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: That might be a valid concern if your notion of off topic didn't include things that pretty much everyone else seems to think is on topic enough to fit into this list. do we have to start deciding what's on-topic by voting? congratulations i don't mean moderation like removing one opinions and not others. But removing off-topic messages, that are 95% now or more. 1. When moderation is increased, so too are false positives -- like removing statements of opinion that shouldn't be removed. there are always false positives. but everything is better than democracy=what most say is right is considered right. I never said we should vote on everything -- you just decided to magic that up out of thin air. Have fun with that. 2. Your idea of off topic seems to include stuff relevant to FreeBSD. not revelant. will you start support my program just because it can be compiled on FreeBSD? it's nonsense. so stop supporting third party non-freebsd specific software just because it can be compiled under FreeBSD!! the point: you: \O/ | / \ -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Larry Wall: Just don't create a file called -rf. pgp2CdB7Ml0qs.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 13:49 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I think the list you're looking for when you talk about only discussing the base-system already exists (probably stable or arch). This is freebsd questions- and the nature of the list according to the all-knowing handbook IS for newbies, people who probably won't understand the difference between third party and base. there is freebsd-newbies for this. this group is freebsd-question = questions about FreeBSD. That's THAT simple, unless you like it to be more complicated. Thats not where THE handbook sends them first, is it now? As you say RTFM. If you have a problem with this then you need to take it up with the FreeBSD Team. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 01:44:41PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: moderation is needed. Things like community social pressure simply doesn't. Like with democracy - those who are more common and louder will takeover, no matter if it make sense or not. Yes, and you have gone a long way in proving just that point. Your narrow minded, inability to accept anyone else's opinions that are even slightly ajar of your own preconceived concepts are a perfect example of your inability to work and play well with others. just because my opinion is other than yours :) I think you have that backwards. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth James Madison: If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. pgpmiJ1zbRYfA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 01:06:58PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: base system: nothing appropriate Maybe what we need isn't for you to keep complaining about 70% of the very helpful list traffic, helpful for whom? thus producing another 5% of the list traffic yourself (directly, and indirectly through annoyed responses to you), but for someone to come up with a base-sys...@freebsd.org list where you can hang out and be happy. seems you actively like this mailing list to become big shit. You WELL know what i am talking about, and you just play with words. Ah -- so now you accuse me of maliciousness. How much worse can your contributions to this list get? Because i AM very much feared about FreeBSD future not being like lots of other free software project, i will do everything to take all idiots, winusers, students that want comparision between different OS in few words (because they was required at school), questions about one of million of non-freebsd specific software, stupid discussion about windoze-like bloatware running under unix etc. etc. I really don't care about your opinion, just because it's THE ONLY GOOD UNIX LEFT IN THE WORLD now! There was linux many years ago, yes - less functional, but WELL DONE, they f...ked it up by quickly adding every stupid features requested. I still haven't figured out why you think that answering questions about DNS on FreeBSD or looking for ways to improve driver support would equate to adding every stupid features [sic] requested. Then i switched to NetBSD, that worked excellent up to 1.5, and then got f..ked up even more than linux when started to be sponsored by wasabisystems and possibly other funny companies. They even changed the way versions are numbered to get higher numbers faster ;) Did it really get screwed up, or did you just decide it *must* be getting screwed up because development was sponsored? Now i'm using FreeBSD and it got better each version. Really better, not better. A lot of people would disagree with you about the 5.x releases, judging by what I've read. By all accounts, though, it got back on track. I wonder if NetBSD got better again after you left, if it ever got worse in the first place. And i really want to keep it that way, because there is no alternative now! -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth William Gibson: The future is already here. It's just not very evenly distributed. pgpPqafQbetPq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Monday 15 December 2008 11:14:08 Chad Perrin wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 12:53:39PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: and exactly is needed on that group. it would be enough that moderator's job will be just removing posts that classify to NTG. NOTHING else. As long as neither you, nor anyone that thinks like you, is in charge of moderation, it might not be a *complete* disaster. of course it should be you to remove all my posts:) I wouldn't remove all your posts. You've said five or six things that were on-topic. Guys, enough! This thread is starting to spam the list. Please take this to freebsd-chat or off list. Thanks, Beech ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Firebird client fails port install
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 14:29 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: I'm trying to install php5-extensions (which includes firebird), but its failing with an error code 1 on firebird20-client. It does mention running make to build firebird, but not as root. So I've tried everything to get this to work: running make as my wheel group user, installing as a pkg instead. What could I be missing? (And before anybody asks: I ran portsnap fetch update twice yesterday - and I did run the update. I've learnt my lesson from last time...) Unless you set variables to put the work directory somewhere non-standard, the ports system will try to do its building under each port's directory, which is normally not writable by regular users. Similarly, installing a port (or a package, for the same reasons) normally requires root permissions for access to system directories and in many cases to let programs installed by ports run as special-purpose users. What is the reason you're trying to install ports as a different user? Because the first stop error occurs and it says to run make to build firebird, but it also says Please do not build firebird as 'root' because this may cause conflicts with SysV semaphores of running services. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 02:16:34AM -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Unfortunately, anything covered by a patent, as I hinted above, is verboten. Er, doesn't it depend on what is patented? If the h/w itself is patented, but its software-visible interface is not, there should be no problem writing a driver for that h/w. OTOH if the algorithms used in the driver are patented it would be an infringement to reproduce them. I said anything covered by patent. If the software is not covered by patent, you're fine to write software. Be aware, though, that a lot of patents are intentionally written in a somewhat vague way so they can be extended via case law at a later date. Nothing is legal under the current US system unless you can defend it in civil court. That's my general rule of thumb. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth markinct @techrepublic.com: Don't take anything you do on-line lightly. Caveat Clicker... pgpE84X3uWPcL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 01:08:18PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Actually, Pentium M processors may well be the best x86-compatible CPUs of their generation -- low power consumption relative to the competition, and the best performance per dollar in their class. Pentium 4, though, certainly sucks. as having pentium-M laptop and pentium-4 server i can only say - you are exactly right. in real load my 1200Mhz laptop isn't much slower than 3Ghz pentium-4 . . . and my 1.73GHz Pentium M is faster than a 3GHz P4. I was pretty happy when I heard rumors Pentium was going to start offering tower system motherboards that accept Pentium M processors in 2003, but alas, they were just rumors. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Mediocrity corrupts. Bureaucracy corrupts absolutely. pgphTQo4tYLod.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Firebird client fails port install
Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 14:29 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: I'm trying to install php5-extensions (which includes firebird), but its failing with an error code 1 on firebird20-client. It does mention running make to build firebird, but not as root. So I've tried everything to get this to work: running make as my wheel group user, installing as a pkg instead. What could I be missing? (And before anybody asks: I ran portsnap fetch update twice yesterday - and I did run the update. I've learnt my lesson from last time...) Unless you set variables to put the work directory somewhere non-standard, the ports system will try to do its building under each port's directory, which is normally not writable by regular users. Similarly, installing a port (or a package, for the same reasons) normally requires root permissions for access to system directories and in many cases to let programs installed by ports run as special-purpose users. What is the reason you're trying to install ports as a different user? Because the first stop error occurs and it says to run make to build firebird, but it also says Please do not build firebird as 'root' because this may cause conflicts with SysV semaphores of running services. I can't see exactly what's happening (partly because you didn't show the actual failure messages), but I do notice that php5-extensions can build without firebird. In fact, that's what it does by default, so you must have explicitly told it to build that. If you don't need it, you can go back in and set the php5-extensions port options to not include firebird, and you will avoid this particular problem. -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:27:30PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: If you have done your own research then the algorithms wouldn't necessarily be the same- they'd nearly certainly be different, wouldn't they? So isn't that the basis for the patent? A patent is a registration of an idea. Two different ideas can still arrive at the same conclusion. Patents are often about methods, not algorithms. In fact, there's supposedly a restriction against algorithms being patented -- though of course lawmakers and people working at the patent office don't seem to know what an algorithm is, so algorithms do get patented all the time. Anyway . . . as it happens, patenting a method provides far more broad power than patenting an algorithm, anyway, in practice. That's one of the reason (software) patents are so damaging. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Reginald Braithwaite: Nor is it as easy as piling more features on regardless of how well they fit or whether people will actually use them. Otherwise Windows would have 97% of the market and OS X 3%. (Oh wait.) pgpc6TXzxhIme.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:34:20AM -0900, Beech Rintoul wrote: On Monday 15 December 2008 11:14:08 Chad Perrin wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 12:53:39PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: and exactly is needed on that group. it would be enough that moderator's job will be just removing posts that classify to NTG. NOTHING else. As long as neither you, nor anyone that thinks like you, is in charge of moderation, it might not be a *complete* disaster. of course it should be you to remove all my posts:) I wouldn't remove all your posts. You've said five or six things that were on-topic. Guys, enough! This thread is starting to spam the list. Please take this to freebsd-chat or off list. Thanks, Beech Totally agree. :) -- Best regards, Jeff () X-mas ribbon campaign /\ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 07:25:29 -0500 Jerry ges...@yahoo.com wrote: Actually, I like your reference to 'Democracy'. Coming from a socialist, the very thought of an open discussion on any matter that does not fit in your narrow parameters would seem objectionable. there are some serious problems with some people's conception of democracy. narrow parameters shouldn't be regarded as a bad thing necessarily. and openmindedness doesn't do much good if it results in a hole in one's head. Might I suggest that we start with yours. I am all ready creating a KILL filter to rid my INBOX of your useless diatribe. i presume this means there will be no longer be insulting and angry comments directed at woj from you? like this one: Furthermore, I believe that your are the reason that vendors are not more interested in FreeBSD. How could any of them expect to reasonably work with a narrow minded, opinionated, buffoon like you? -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 13:43 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 02:16:34AM -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Unfortunately, anything covered by a patent, as I hinted above, is verboten. Er, doesn't it depend on what is patented? If the h/w itself is patented, but its software-visible interface is not, there should be no problem writing a driver for that h/w. OTOH if the algorithms used in the driver are patented it would be an infringement to reproduce them. I said anything covered by patent. If the software is not covered by patent, you're fine to write software. Be aware, though, that a lot of patents are intentionally written in a somewhat vague way so they can be extended via case law at a later date. Nothing is legal under the current US system unless you can defend it in civil court. That's my general rule of thumb. That doesn't sound like a good system (US not yours) - how on earth did it get so screwed up? (Thats rhetorical btw, I don't mean to start a whole discussion on that topic on this list.) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Firebird client fails port install
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 15:49 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 14:29 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: I'm trying to install php5-extensions (which includes firebird), but its failing with an error code 1 on firebird20-client. It does mention running make to build firebird, but not as root. So I've tried everything to get this to work: running make as my wheel group user, installing as a pkg instead. What could I be missing? (And before anybody asks: I ran portsnap fetch update twice yesterday - and I did run the update. I've learnt my lesson from last time...) Unless you set variables to put the work directory somewhere non-standard, the ports system will try to do its building under each port's directory, which is normally not writable by regular users. Similarly, installing a port (or a package, for the same reasons) normally requires root permissions for access to system directories and in many cases to let programs installed by ports run as special-purpose users. What is the reason you're trying to install ports as a different user? Because the first stop error occurs and it says to run make to build firebird, but it also says Please do not build firebird as 'root' because this may cause conflicts with SysV semaphores of running services. I can't see exactly what's happening (partly because you didn't show the actual failure messages), but I do notice that php5-extensions can build without firebird. In fact, that's what it does by default, so you must have explicitly told it to build that. If you don't need it, you can go back in and set the php5-extensions port options to not include firebird, and you will avoid this particular problem. I did that in the end, but that doesn't really solve the problem now does it? I'll take it up with ports and see if I can't figure out whats wrong... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 13:47 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:27:30PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: If you have done your own research then the algorithms wouldn't necessarily be the same- they'd nearly certainly be different, wouldn't they? So isn't that the basis for the patent? A patent is a registration of an idea. Two different ideas can still arrive at the same conclusion. Patents are often about methods, not algorithms. In fact, there's supposedly a restriction against algorithms being patented -- though of course lawmakers and people working at the patent office don't seem to know what an algorithm is, so algorithms do get patented all the time. Anyway . . . as it happens, patenting a method provides far more broad power than patenting an algorithm, anyway, in practice. That's one of the reason (software) patents are so damaging. I think I might take it up with my lawyer if I want to do something like this then. Seems like they've got it all wrapped up... My conclusion is that it sucks and blows - something that shouldn't be physically possible. But that seems to be life atm :( (globally, not mine) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: GPL version 4
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 08:38:35AM -0500, Richard M Stallman wrote: I don't think it is that bad - the intent is for the software to be freely available for *people* to use. It is actually about our freedom. You have it right. Copyleft licenses defend freedom for all users by stopping middlemen from stripping it away. Please don't spam the FreeBSD list with such propaganda. That's a personal request -- I don't pretend to speak for the entire list. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Naguib Mahfouz: You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. pgpLtf1ZL6ztQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Firebird client fails port install
Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 15:49 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 14:29 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: I'm trying to install php5-extensions (which includes firebird), but its failing with an error code 1 on firebird20-client. It does mention running make to build firebird, but not as root. So I've tried everything to get this to work: running make as my wheel group user, installing as a pkg instead. What could I be missing? (And before anybody asks: I ran portsnap fetch update twice yesterday - and I did run the update. I've learnt my lesson from last time...) Unless you set variables to put the work directory somewhere non-standard, the ports system will try to do its building under each port's directory, which is normally not writable by regular users. Similarly, installing a port (or a package, for the same reasons) normally requires root permissions for access to system directories and in many cases to let programs installed by ports run as special-purpose users. What is the reason you're trying to install ports as a different user? Because the first stop error occurs and it says to run make to build firebird, but it also says Please do not build firebird as 'root' because this may cause conflicts with SysV semaphores of running services. I can't see exactly what's happening (partly because you didn't show the actual failure messages), but I do notice that php5-extensions can build without firebird. In fact, that's what it does by default, so you must have explicitly told it to build that. If you don't need it, you can go back in and set the php5-extensions port options to not include firebird, and you will avoid this particular problem. I did that in the end, but that doesn't really solve the problem now does it? I'll take it up with ports and see if I can't figure out whats wrong... You'll want to provide more information if you do so. -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:34:20 -0900 Beech Rintoul be...@freebsd.org wrote: Guys, enough! This thread is starting to spam the list. i agree too at this point and apologize for some of my earlier contributions. it is clear there will probably be no resolution between the engaging parties of which a few seem to have lost self-discipline and have been reduced to hurling insults. (despite all this i am glad to see certain posts that were quite educational such as that patent discussion.) since giorgos has made it clear that the list is not moderated, it falls upon all of us to moderate ourselves and act in a reasonable and sensible manner - and stick to the topic at hand. as the zen saying goes even a good thing is not as good as no thing, i think the best some of us can do is not post to this thread anymore. that is the action i will take (however tempting it may be to do otherwise). -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
power management
my son read somewhere that linux does better power management than freebsd. one specific item being that the cpu scaling is more efficiently handled. i don't know much about this stuff so i thought i'd ask here. 1. is there any accuracy to the statement? 2. is cpu scaling a kernel issue? if so, does this mean that the linux kernel has coding in it which deals with the scaling better? 3. are we comparing simple default kernels? can the fbsd kernel be recompiled appropriately to match or exceed the linux one? -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:51:03 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: That's not censorship -- it's a nondisclosure agreement. There are users on this list who would love to see users of FBSD bound by an NDA so that they could not say anything these self appointed CENSORS consider verboten. you are excellent at messing things up. Look who's talking.. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS sxce snv104 ++ + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Canonical way for DHCP-IP-/etc/hosts
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Roger Olofsson wrote: Jeff Laine skrev: On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 02:00:12PM +0100, Roger Olofsson wrote: Dear mailing list, I am sorry if this question has been asked over and over again - however the htdig search interface for the lists is somewhat shaky and gives referrer errors for me. Pre-conditions. Dualhomed firewalled FreeBSD7.1. One nic is LAN and the other dynamical IP from ISP. Question: What is the canonical way for catching the IP address from a DHCP assigned nic (from ISP that doesn't set hostname) and put the IP into /etc/hosts with a hostname? Reason for asking Firewall rules needs refreshing after new IP Possible answers: Create dhcp-exit-hooks (undocumented?) in /etc like so: #!/bin/sh if [ ! -z $new_ip_address ]; then IP=`ifconfig WAN | grep 'inet' | grep -v 'inet6' | cut -f 2 -d ' '` if [ ! -z $IP ]; then echo $IPwan.local.domain wan /etc/hosts refresh firewall rules here fi fi Hello. I think pf can handle with dhcp updates on interfaces pretty well. If only I get your question right. Hi Jeff and thank you for your reply, Yes, I know that pf will handle interfaces just fine, the question was not specific to pf though but more around dhclient, dhclient-script and the part of dhclient-script that calls the undocumented dhclient-exit-hooks. It might be handy to have the external IP assigned to a hostname - not only for pf. /R Hi Roger, I wrote a blog post about automatically configuring /etc/hosts with a DHCP dynamic IP address earlier this year: http://blog.sourcehosting.net/tag/dhcp/. You can download a ZIP file with the dhclient-exit-hook script in it near the bottom of the page. In my case, I also wrote some commands to update the Apache httpd.conf file with the correct ServerName directive. You can easily remove that from the script if you don't need it. If you need any assistance, let me know. Regards, Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklG1FEACgkQ0sRouByUApB1SACgmfJ4EtiyKdhyPgILZyc77Fxc gHMAnRGGBWIya0Fg314LyrJZq9tTZvbj =jHL5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: questions about some archive files, type *.rar
for free d/l. turns out there were 13 huge files in rar files. I have all. can these be catted together and the unrard to form the original? don't cat. just unrar x firstfile unrar handles split archives ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
So, we end up splitting the potential FreeBSD users between Ubuntu and Fedora with more of them going to Ubuntu because not quite as many become very nice. after trying FreeBSD they WILL get back to linux (and then windows) quickly. Those who REALLY know they need something different, like high performance good plain unix, will move to FreeBSD sooner or later :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Guys, enough! This thread is starting to spam the list. Please take this to freebsd-chat or off list. OK i wont post on that anymore. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Startup scipt
Здравствуйте, Questions.
It there feature (option in rc.subr) to run multiple services at once?
For example I have 'service'
to run service with specific flags I want to do:
service_enable=YES
service_instances=instance1 instance2
service_instance1_flags=-flag 1 rl0
service_instance2_flags=-flag 2 rl2
so rc.subr will run:
service -flag 1 rl0
service -flag 2 rl2
It will be great to have this feature that will do all dirty work to
run multiple services.
So maintainers of startup scripts will be free to not to do next things:
for interface in ${arpwatch_interfaces}; do
if [ ! -e ${arpwatch_dir}/arp.${interface}.dat ]; then
if [ -e ${arpwatch_dir}/arp.${interface}.dat- ]; then
cp ${arpwatch_dir}/arp.${interface}.dat-
${arpwatch_dir}/arp.${interface}.dat
else
touch ${arpwatch_dir}/arp.${interface}.dat
fi
fi
done
EXAMPLES:
ipguard_enable=YES
ipguard_instances=rl0 rl1 rl2
ipguard_rl0_interface=rl0 #NOTICE: this instance are runned without flags
ipguard_rl1_interface=rl1
ipguard_rl1_flags=-r -b 100 -f /etc/ethers
ipguard_rl2_interface=rl2
ipguard_rl2_flags=-u 300 -xz
proftpd_enable=YES
proftpd_instances=external internal
proftpd_external_flags=-c external.conf
proftpd_internal_flags=-c ftp_for_localnet.conf
I do not know will be or not feature to on/off some instance:
for example:
ipguard_rl2_enable=NO
proftpd_external_enable=NO
By default all instances are enabled because of if user add second
instance it has first one already runned. And he add second instance
because of it is not enough to have only one instance. So
proftpd_enable=YES will enable all instances
proftpd_enable=NO will disable all instances
proftpd_external_enable=NO will disable some instance
For example: user run three instances, but now want to disable one of
them. So it write service_name_instance_name_enable=NO
What do you think about this improvement?
--
С уважением,
KES mailto:kes-...@yandex.ru
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Re: power management
my son read somewhere that linux does better power management than freebsd. one specific item being that the cpu scaling is more efficiently handled. my friend told me that freebsd does it better ;) anyway it's just been told, somewhere etc. to compare things we first need to set up a metric :) i don't know much about this stuff so i thought i'd ask here. 1. is there any accuracy to the statement? 2. is cpu scaling a kernel issue? if so, does this mean that the linux kernel has coding in it which deals with the scaling better? IMHO it depends on hardware and ACPI. maybe linux handles strange cases better maybe not. Simply - install linux, then FreeBSD on same machine and check it :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Chad Perrin wrote: Tell that to the uncountable hordes of dedicated Linux users who don't know what they're missing and, as such, see no reason to even give FreeBSD a try. Many Linux people I know still think FreeBSD SMP sucks, that combined with a lack of journaling filesystem on BSD gives the Linux folks a small edge. I know ZFS is out there, but nor for that long yet on FreeBSD. Brian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Startup scipt
instance it has first one already runned. And he add second instance because of it is not enough to have only one instance. So proftpd_enable=YES will enable all instances proftpd_enable=NO will disable all instances proftpd_external_enable=NO will disable some instance For example: user run three instances, but now want to disable one of them. So it write service_name_instance_name_enable=NO What do you think about this improvement? it's EXCELLENT. when i needed this i simply started things from /etc/rc.local but then killing/restarting any of them required manually doing ps |grep, kill etc... please contribute patches. it will be very useful. make sure for every instance you can give different parameters. example - one machine services 2 customers in one building, has 2 ethernets (+1 for external traffic), and i would like to run 2 samba servers with configs: /usr/local/etc/smb-net1.conf /usr/local/etc/smb-net2.conf ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Firebird client fails port install
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 16:49 -0500, Mark Moellering wrote: Da Rock wrote: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 15:49 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 14:29 -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Da Rock rock_on_the_...@comcen.com.au writes: I'm trying to install php5-extensions (which includes firebird), but its failing with an error code 1 on firebird20-client. It does mention running make to build firebird, but not as root. So I've tried everything to get this to work: running make as my wheel group user, installing as a pkg instead. What could I be missing? (And before anybody asks: I ran portsnap fetch update twice yesterday - and I did run the update. I've learnt my lesson from last time...) Unless you set variables to put the work directory somewhere non-standard, the ports system will try to do its building under each port's directory, which is normally not writable by regular users. Similarly, installing a port (or a package, for the same reasons) normally requires root permissions for access to system directories and in many cases to let programs installed by ports run as special-purpose users. What is the reason you're trying to install ports as a different user? Because the first stop error occurs and it says to run make to build firebird, but it also says Please do not build firebird as 'root' because this may cause conflicts with SysV semaphores of running services. I can't see exactly what's happening (partly because you didn't show the actual failure messages), but I do notice that php5-extensions can build without firebird. In fact, that's what it does by default, so you must have explicitly told it to build that. If you don't need it, you can go back in and set the php5-extensions port options to not include firebird, and you will avoid this particular problem. I did that in the end, but that doesn't really solve the problem now does it? I'll take it up with ports and see if I can't figure out whats wrong... The only thing I can think of that makes sense is that they want you to run as su, as opposed to a true root login. Perhaps later someone with more experience will answer, I can't believe you are the first/only person to do this. As a matter of fact I never use true root I ALWAYS use su (believe it or not a M$ directive in the MCSE course I did years ago- never use administrator, copy administrative capabilities to the username used). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Firebird client fails port install
As a matter of fact I never use true root I ALWAYS use su (believe it or what's a practical difference between logging to root directly or doing su? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:13:38PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: So, we end up splitting the potential FreeBSD users between Ubuntu and Fedora with more of them going to Ubuntu because not quite as many become very nice. after trying FreeBSD they WILL get back to linux (and then windows) quickly. Those who REALLY know they need something different, like high performance good plain unix, will move to FreeBSD sooner or later :) Uh -- what? We weren't talking about people who've tried FreeBSD first. We were talking about people who asked about FreeBSD and were told to f-off to Linux instead by people like you. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Principle of Inclusion: The strength of any system is directly proportional to the power of the tools it provides for the general public. pgpDNrLdxw9Ib.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Firebird client fails port install
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 23:46 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: As a matter of fact I never use true root I ALWAYS use su (believe it or what's a practical difference between logging to root directly or doing su? The log files log exactly who did what instead of anonymously. At the least they show who had su'd to root and when, but from my experience it says the user and what was done. Incidentally, I first heard of this practice through my MCSE (where basically M$ NT was bagged as the worst system ever- strange wouldn't you say seeing as it was an M$ course?), but the practice has been in use for years by old school *nix administrators and has been a specified as best practice. Just read nearly any *nix manual or tutorial. Why do you think the sysinstall for freebsd and just about every *nix distro says to create a user account so you don't use root? It also sometimes states to use su to gain root privileges in the warning message. It actually frightens me how many new administrators don't bother with following this policy- even ISPs. It helps with forensic analysis, and if you suddenly find root doing stuff in your logs (if you follow the best practice methods) then you know it wasn't you or anybody authorised. If anybody here can tell me how to enforce this policy in practice I'd be very interested to hear it (although I doubt one could prevent console access to root ICE). Maybe a method to obtain the user's name or soemthing. I think it can only be enforced in policy and not practice, though. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 02:22:31PM -0800, Brian Whalen wrote: Chad Perrin wrote: Tell that to the uncountable hordes of dedicated Linux users who don't know what they're missing and, as such, see no reason to even give FreeBSD a try. Many Linux people I know still think FreeBSD SMP sucks, that combined with a lack of journaling filesystem on BSD gives the Linux folks a small edge. I know ZFS is out there, but nor for that long yet on FreeBSD. Many Linux people I know don't know about FreeBSD SMP and filesystem matters -- or much of anything else about it, for that matter. Some even think FreeBSD is a Linux distribution. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Jon Postel, RFC 761: [B]e conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others. pgpLtzV4ihR3w.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: power management
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:20:51 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: IMHO it depends on hardware ya that makes sense at least from reading about different cpu state descriptions here: Everything You Need to Know About the CPU C-States Power Saving Modes http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/611 where they talk about how different cpu's deal with things differently. so since the os software can only use these features, possibly some have optimized for some hardware, but possibly not for others. Simply - install linux, then FreeBSD on same machine and check it :) :D ya that's what's important here at least. not that i'm concerned, i'm not going back to linux (even though i liked it while i used it). -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 07:07:36AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 13:43 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 02:16:34AM -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Unfortunately, anything covered by a patent, as I hinted above, is verboten. Er, doesn't it depend on what is patented? If the h/w itself is patented, but its software-visible interface is not, there should be no problem writing a driver for that h/w. OTOH if the algorithms used in the driver are patented it would be an infringement to reproduce them. I said anything covered by patent. If the software is not covered by patent, you're fine to write software. Be aware, though, that a lot of patents are intentionally written in a somewhat vague way so they can be extended via case law at a later date. Nothing is legal under the current US system unless you can defend it in civil court. That's my general rule of thumb. That doesn't sound like a good system (US not yours) - how on earth did it get so screwed up? (Thats rhetorical btw, I don't mean to start a whole discussion on that topic on this list.) It's much the same everywhere, from what I've seen. The problems just arise in different guises. Usually, judging by my observations, they arise in large part because of the common notion that a problem can be fixed with more of the behavior that created the problem in the first place. . . . but beyond that, I'd probably start a flame war, so I don't think I want to get more specific on the list. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Reginald Braithwaite: Nor is it as easy as piling more features on regardless of how well they fit or whether people will actually use them. Otherwise Windows would have 97% of the market and OS X 3%. (Oh wait.) pgpCfeJkxD9NQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: power management
Simply - install linux, then FreeBSD on same machine and check it :) :D ya that's what's important here at least. anyway - just using hlt instruction greatly reduces CPU power usage even at full clock. i don't think the difference is THAT huge by reducing clock multipliers, voltage etc. on my laptop i don't even looked at this, and it works about 2 times longer under little CPU load than under full load. and it has hard drive and display that use power. CPU itself isn't big power eater (it's pentium-M 1200). Of course on modern CPUs having 100W TDP it may make a difference. not that i'm concerned, i'm not going back to linux (even though i liked it while i used it). me too - until kernels 2.0.*, then it wasn't usable (stable) anymore. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 16:23 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 07:07:36AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 13:43 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 02:16:34AM -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Unfortunately, anything covered by a patent, as I hinted above, is verboten. Er, doesn't it depend on what is patented? If the h/w itself is patented, but its software-visible interface is not, there should be no problem writing a driver for that h/w. OTOH if the algorithms used in the driver are patented it would be an infringement to reproduce them. I said anything covered by patent. If the software is not covered by patent, you're fine to write software. Be aware, though, that a lot of patents are intentionally written in a somewhat vague way so they can be extended via case law at a later date. Nothing is legal under the current US system unless you can defend it in civil court. That's my general rule of thumb. That doesn't sound like a good system (US not yours) - how on earth did it get so screwed up? (Thats rhetorical btw, I don't mean to start a whole discussion on that topic on this list.) It's much the same everywhere, from what I've seen. The problems just arise in different guises. Usually, judging by my observations, they arise in large part because of the common notion that a problem can be fixed with more of the behavior that created the problem in the first place. . . . but beyond that, I'd probably start a flame war, so I don't think I want to get more specific on the list. Probably not- the flames would probably be directed at a common enemy rather than amongst ourselves here. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Startup scipt
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:56:43 +0200, KES kes-...@yandex.ru wrote: It there feature (option in rc.subr) to run multiple services at once? None that I know of. For example I have 'service' to run service with specific flags I want to do: service_enable=YES service_instances=instance1 instance2 service_instance1_flags=-flag 1 rl0 service_instance2_flags=-flag 2 rl2 so rc.subr will run: service -flag 1 rl0 service -flag 2 rl2 It may be possible to simulate what /etc/rc.d/moused does. In recent versions of the script, the following commands are supported: /etc/rc.d/moused start /etc/rc.d/moused start ums0 The first invocation uses the 'default' options from `rc.conf': moused_enable moused_port moused_type moused_flags The second invocation uses another set of options from `rc.conf': moused_ums0_enable moused_ums0_port moused_ums0_type moused_ums0_flags The support for these non-default options is implemented using a small local hack in `src/etc/rc.d/moused': http://svn.freebsd.org/viewvc/base/head/etc/rc.d/moused?view=annotate#l24 It would be great if you found some way to integrate this with the rest of rc.d. This way more scripts can support multiple instances of the underlying service :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
