RE: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of RW Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:51 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:27:56 +0100 Barnaby Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ultimately, but not yet, I want to start using the FreeBSD machine as a proper mailserver - i.e. get a static IP address and point the MX record hosted by my provider at it. It may not be sufficient to get a static IP address. If you wish to send out mail directly, you really need one with control of reverse DNS, since that's the criterion for getting out of dynamic address blocklists. No, not exactly, this is a simplification. Some don't pay attention to PTR's. The correct way is to resolve the hostname passed in the HELO and compare the IP that results to the senders IP. Some lists do that some don't when looking at removal requests. You really need a /24 subnet to be free of this. A number of the blacklists these days are making the very ignorant assumption that if a single IP in a /24 is spamming, that it is OK to block the entire /24. The idea is if we disrupt traffic enough the ISP will magically step in and do something about it. I don't know exactly why these blacklist owners seem to have settled on a /24, they probably got C's in their classes in school so have an especial affinity for the deprecated-years-ago term class C IP subnet Any ISP these days handing out static IP's has a mechanism for putting in a PTR record. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
I prefer uw-imap for IMAP and sendmail for MTA. I have found
that since PHP imap extensions uses the uw-imap library and
many webmail interfaces use php imap extensions, that there is
less trouble with the client and server talking to each other
when they are using the same library. (the uw-imap server
is built using the c-client library that php-extensions uses)
IMHO your better off using procmail to scan the stuff with
spamassassin and clamav, rather than using something like
amavisd to call those programs. There's tons more procmail
support out on the Internet, it has been in use longer. And
you can use webmin and usermin to allow users to build their
own procmail recipies.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Norberto
Meijome
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:00 PM
To: Kenny Dail
Cc: Barnaby Scott; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:49:45 -0600
Kenny Dail [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I currently much prefer using Dovecot for IMAP, and Postfix for
MTA. They are both quite easy to set up and customize to fit changing
needs.
I agree . adding clamav + amavisd.new + spamassassin to the mix
would wrap up
the setup.
ping me if you need particular config details.
_
{Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long
plastic hallway
where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a
negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot.
Slippery when wet.
Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse.
You have been
Warned.
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Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:23:12 -0700
Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I prefer uw-imap for IMAP and sendmail for MTA. I have found
that since PHP imap extensions uses the uw-imap library and
many webmail interfaces use php imap extensions, that there is
less trouble with the client and server talking to each other
when they are using the same library. (the uw-imap server
is built using the c-client library that php-extensions uses)
in this particular server we use roundcube as webmail doing imap to localhost,
easy as pie.Never cared about which imap libs were used on the client vs the
server side nor I think one should (unless you are trying to save on build
time / space / libraries involved).
IMHO your better off using procmail to scan the stuff with
spamassassin and clamav, rather than using something like
amavisd to call those programs. There's tons more procmail
support out on the Internet, it has been in use longer. And
you can use webmin and usermin to allow users to build their
own procmail recipies.
I can see your point , thanks for the insight :)
Of course, it assumes that the users care about procmail recipes and the like ;)
_
{Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome
Too bad ignorance isn't painful.
Don Lindsay
I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot. Slippery when wet.
Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse. You have been
Warned.
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Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
Are you using spamd? not sure - it's almost 2 AM here...i'm going to hit the sack as I have an earlish start - i'll try to dig out the config from that mail server and send it out, but i can't promise it'll happen tomorrow - DO ping me if i haven't done it after the w/end. I guess yes, spamd is the deamonized version of SA, and to my knownledge the only one. Spawning SA for each email would take LNNNG time. I would like to - don't know how. Also, I'd like to redirect *SPAM* messages into a users SPAM IMAP folder. Do you know how to do that? I am not sure how to do it - we simply fwd as usual all the email, let our few users to clean them up (and puts the blame of any false positives far away from us too) One way is to use procmail to push flagged messages into different mail boxes. Another solution is to quarantine spam messages http://www.cs.ait.ac.th/laboratory/email/quarantine.shtml. I like that solution because it works independently from IMAP: quarantine flagged spam and recover them if you think they are valid. Bests, Olivier ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
Your going to get yourself blown up if you try that, I guarentee it. Here is what you want to do if your really serious. 1) Get yourself a DSL line (for your home) with a static IP address on the end of it. 2) Register a personal domain name. (barneyscott.com or some such) 3) Build a mailserver, set up DNS MX records for your domain. Set up your own e-mail address on it and get rid of all other mail addresses you use. 4) Become familiar with all the components of it. Ask lots of questions. In about 6 months when you are at the point to where you understand what your doing, THEN build a mailserver for your 8 users. It is frankly immoral for you to use your 8 users as guinea pigs to train yourself how e-mail works and how mailservers work. There are so many minefields in Internet mail today that a newbie isn't going to be able to do this with a production company without being crucified by the users. I fly a desk at an ISP that has about 10 different mailservers with different domains and hundreds to thousands of addresses on them and I do everything right - but I still get bitched at by users on a regular basis on e-mail problems. Trust me, it doesen't matter one whit to an angry user who has missed an e-mail that the problem is because they didn't correctly spell their e-mail address in their From setting on their e-mail client, and their coorespondent got a bounce when trying to reply to their mail, even when the problem is 10,000% their fault and does not have a snowballs chance in Hell of being your fault to any sane observer, to that user, Hell will freeze over before they will admit that the problem is on their side. It's ALWAYS your problem. And, Hell will indeed freeze over before any user will ever compliment you on a well-run mailserver. If you have 0 complaints, your doing well. And you will NEVER EVER be thanked for fixing their e-mail problems for them, caused by them crapping up their own machine. You simply have got to know what your doing before tampering with this. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Barnaby Scott Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:28 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob Hi, I'm trying to replace my current arrangement for email, and though I have read as much as possible on it, I just want to check if I am on the right lines with what I'm planning. (Is that a legitimate use of this list?) It's the same old story, when you're a beginner it is very hard to take even small steps until you have a grasp of the 'big picture', and know what direction you should be going. So I'd be glad of any opinions, pointers, or How-Tos that I may not have spotted. If you read the rest of this, you may think that I'm trying to implement something way too heavyweight for what I need at the moment, and you'd be right! However, I want to learn, and enjoy trying to master the big boys' toys. OK, so here's where I am: 8 users 3 or 4 Windows machines including a laptop - users may use any/all of these New FreeBSD server so far only operating as a Samba server (PDC). Email is downloaded by individual clients from ISP via POP3 - user must be at specific machine to access their local mail folders. If elsewhere, they must use webmail, but of course sent messages, replied flags etc are then inconsistent, besides which messages are only left on the (ISP) server for a limited time. Here is where I want to get to: IMAP server on my FreeBSD box (and using Maildir is my instinctive preference.) Ultimately, but not yet, I want to start using the FreeBSD machine as a proper mailserver - i.e. get a static IP address and point the MX record hosted by my provider at it. For now though I am happy to fetch from the existing mailboxes that they host for me. Again, not necessarily now, but when I am fully up and running, run spam and virus checking (that's done for me now, but inevitably could be improved on.) What I _think_ I want to do is this: Install Fetchmail to get mail from my various hosted mailboxes Configure Sendmail, which I accepted as the default mailer Install Procmail to deliver messages in Maildir format (to users' home directories?) Install Courier IMAP as the IMAP server Ultimately, then drop Fetchmail and reconfigure Sendmail for receiving mail directly, and add anti- spam and virus tools. Have I got this about right? Do I really need 4 separate tools to do this? Have I overlooked something more obvious/elegant? Where are my big pitfalls going to be? If replying, please keep in mind my embarrassing level of inexperience!! Thanks Barnaby Scott ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:50:20 -0500
Eric F Crist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Eric,
please CC the list, so others can contribute / learn (now and from archives).
Could you tell me what you're doing with spamassassin? I've got it
configured and it seems to be running, but I'd like to know exactly
what you have configured and how you're doing it.
I'm using SA being called by amavisd-new. Mind you, this is for a small setup
(with rather quite a bit of spam), so this setup may not be the most perfomance
efficient.
Just tell SA to add headers in all cases and you'll find out whether it's
working or not.
Are you using
spamd?
not sure - it's almost 2 AM here...i'm going to hit the sack as I have an
earlish start - i'll try to dig out the config from that mail server and send
it out, but i can't promise it'll happen tomorrow - DO ping me if i haven't
done it after the w/end.
I would like to - don't know how. Also, I'd like to redirect
*SPAM* messages into a users SPAM IMAP folder. Do you know
how to do that?
I am not sure how to do it - we simply fwd as usual all the email, let our few
users to clean them up (and puts the blame of any false positives far away from
us too)
What do you use for a front end?
Dovecot IMAP. Postfix for SMTP. everything clear and TLS enabled.
Are you using
virtual users?
yes
Thanks! I'm a new postfix user and am still trying to figure
everything out.
just go over the man pages and postfix's site. the interaction with amavisd and
SA , and the flowing in and out of mails is where it gets interesting.
bye
_
{Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome
Do not take away the camels hump, you may be stopping him from being a camel.
I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot. Slippery when wet.
Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse. You have been
Warned.
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Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
Install Fetchmail to get mail from my various hosted mailboxes Yes. For testing purpose, why don't you create a temporary mail account at your ISP, at yahoo, gmail, etc. provided they have IMAP, and try retreiving emails from that account. Configure Sendmail, which I accepted as the default mailer Does fetchmail need sendmail? I never used fetchmail, so I am not sure about that one. Install Procmail to deliver messages in Maildir format (to users' home directories?) Yes and yes, Courrier IMAP expects the mailbox to be in the user home directory in ~user/Maildir and procmail is a good place to plugin several features for sorting emails. Install Courier IMAP as the IMAP server Yes As I said, test everything on a temporary email account. When you start deploying it for your users, do not delete the messages from the ISP server while you fetchmail them to your local server, that will avoid messages getting lost: users are very touchy about lost mail. Try to keep long time log of everything, so you can show them thy are complaining for no good reason. One month of /var/log/mailog may be a good start. Email is downloaded by individual clients from ISP via POP3 - user must be at specific machine to access their local mail folders. If elsewhere, they must use webmail, but of course sent messages, replied flags etc are then inconsistent, besides which messages are only left on the (ISP) server for a limited time. This would not change, only displace the problm. If you read your email with POP3, you better always use the same machine, because the sent folder is local to the POP3 client machine. Again, not necessarily now, but when I am fully up and running, run spam and virus checking (that's done for me now, but inevitably could be improved on.) Don't wait too much, especially for anti-virus, if you have the feeling that the service provided to you so far is leaking some viruses. If the architecture is Fetchmail/sendmail/procmail, install the amavid plugin while you are building the new infrastructure. Improved antivirus may be a good way to sell the new email procedure to your users (users don't like to change the way they read email, you need incentives :). Spam is touchy question, no one like spam, but every one may have a very different definition of what is spam or not. On this issue, when I started with SpamAssassin, I let the system running for a couple of months, just tagging the spam messages, so people get used to it. Only after that period, I started to quarantine the spam messages. Good luck, email is certainly a big and touchy subject. Olivier ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 10:27:56AM +0100, Barnaby Scott wrote: What I _think_ I want to do is this: Install Fetchmail to get mail from my various hosted mailboxes Fetchmail works fine. Configure Sendmail, which I accepted as the default mailer I'd go for postfix. It's much easier to configure. I've heard it said that it's easier and less painfull to amputate your own leg with a pocket knife then to hack sendmail.cf. :) Install Procmail to deliver messages in Maildir format (to users' home directories?) Procmail is nice if you want to tie-in anti-spam or anti-virus tools on a per user basis. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother. Sendmail and postfix can deliver directly to user's mailboxes. Install Courier IMAP as the IMAP server Ultimately, then drop Fetchmail and reconfigure Sendmail for receiving mail directly, and add anti- spam and virus tools. Don't forget to open port 25 in your firewall, otherwise you won't receive a lot of mail. :) Have I got this about right? Do I really need 4 separate tools to do this? Have I overlooked something more obvious/elegant? Where are my big pitfalls going to be? -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgprBRCsINeic.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
Roland Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 10:27:56AM +0100, Barnaby Scott wrote: What I _think_ I want to do is this: Install Fetchmail to get mail from my various hosted mailboxes Configure Sendmail, which I accepted as the default mailer I'd go for postfix. It's much easier to configure. That's your POV. I've run sendmail, postfix and courier for quite some time and lately I've returned to sendmail. I just like it. Working with mc files is a breeze. You don't hack a cf file unless you're a hacker. But _IF_ you are, hacking is easy too. I've heard it said that it's easier and less painfull to amputate your own leg with a pocket knife then to hack sendmail.cf. :) Depends on your hacking skills.. Writing / adjusting a mc file is easier. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: F86289CE ++ http://nagual.nl/ + Solaris 11 05/07 ++ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
HI On 6/27/07, Barnaby Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm trying to replace my current arrangement for email, and though I have read as much as possible on it, I just want to check if I am on the right lines with what I'm planning. (Is that a legitimate use of this list?) It's the same old story, when you're a beginner it is very hard to take even small steps until you have a grasp of the 'big picture', and know what direction you should be going. So I'd be glad of any opinions, pointers, or How-Tos that I may not have spotted. If you read the rest of this, you may think that I'm trying to implement something way too heavyweight for what I need at the moment, and you'd be right! However, I want to learn, and enjoy trying to master the big boys' toys. OK, so here's where I am: 8 users 3 or 4 Windows machines including a laptop - users may use any/all of these New FreeBSD server so far only operating as a Samba server (PDC). Email is downloaded by individual clients from ISP via POP3 - user must be at specific machine to access their local mail folders. If elsewhere, they must use webmail, but of course sent messages, replied flags etc are then inconsistent, besides which messages are only left on the (ISP) server for a limited time. Here is where I want to get to: IMAP server on my FreeBSD box (and using Maildir is my instinctive preference.) Ultimately, but not yet, I want to start using the FreeBSD machine as a proper mailserver - i.e. get a static IP address and point the MX record hosted by my provider at it. For now though I am happy to fetch from the existing mailboxes that they host for me. Again, not necessarily now, but when I am fully up and running, run spam and virus checking (that's done for me now, but inevitably could be improved on.) What I _think_ I want to do is this: Install Fetchmail to get mail from my various hosted mailboxes Configure Sendmail, which I accepted as the default mailer Install Procmail to deliver messages in Maildir format (to users' home directories?) Install Courier IMAP as the IMAP server I'd suggest dovecot over courier. Courier's not exactly under active development Ultimately, then drop Fetchmail and reconfigure Sendmail for receiving mail directly, and add anti- spam and virus tools. Have I got this about right? Do I really need 4 separate tools to do this? Have I overlooked something more obvious/elegant? Where are my big pitfalls going to be? IF you can just redirect the MX record it's easiest to get everything working first them the fetchmail won't need to run for long after you've moved DNS records. Depends if you can do this. yes you will need some sort of anti spam. I use Spamassassin and MailScanner at work - which BTW ain't that far from you ( www.solidstatelogic.com)..if want some one-to-one help drop me a line. If replying, please keep in mind my embarrassing level of inexperience!! Thanks Barnaby Scott -- Martin ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
Configure Sendmail, which I accepted as the default mailer Install Procmail to deliver messages in Maildir format (to users' home directories?) Install Courier IMAP as the IMAP server Have I got this about right? Do I really need 4 separate tools to do this? Have I overlooked something more obvious/elegant? Where are my big pitfalls going to be? For a new person, Sendmail and Procmail is a difficult mail system to learn (IMO). If you want to use Courier IMAP, you might look at using the full Courier suite it has the simplicity of doing everything in one package. I currently much prefer using Dovecot for IMAP, and Postfix for MTA. They are both quite easy to set up and customize to fit changing needs. -- Kenny Dail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:27:56 +0100 Barnaby Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ultimately, but not yet, I want to start using the FreeBSD machine as a proper mailserver - i.e. get a static IP address and point the MX record hosted by my provider at it. It may not be sufficient to get a static IP address. If you wish to send out mail directly, you really need one with control of reverse DNS, since that's the criterion for getting out of dynamic address blocklists. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gradual move to own mail server - strategy for noob
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:49:45 -0600
Kenny Dail [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I currently much prefer using Dovecot for IMAP, and Postfix for
MTA. They are both quite easy to set up and customize to fit changing
needs.
I agree . adding clamav + amavisd.new + spamassassin to the mix would wrap up
the setup.
ping me if you need particular config details.
_
{Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway
where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a
negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot. Slippery when wet.
Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse. You have been
Warned.
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