[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #21239] Optional rule: Penalty to attack due to ZoC
Follow-up Comment #10, bug #21239 (project freeciv): I like the suggestions, on note on the possiblity to have some units break throught lines without penalty. There can always be flag allowing to ignore ZoC attack penalty. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?21239 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #21239] Optional rule: Penalty to attack due to ZoC
Follow-up Comment #4, bug #21239 (project freeciv): I did not explain properly the first verion. I'll use your question about the surrounded warrior to try to clarify both versions. version 1)Penalty when a unit adjacent to an enemy unit attacks any other tile. version 2) Penalty when a unit adjacent to an enemy unit attacks another tile adjacent to an enemy unit. The first attack of a surrounded warrior will always be penalized in both versions. In v1, if the warrior kills 7 of the surrounding enemies, he can attack the 8th enemy without penalty because there is no other enemy adjacent. All attacks would be penalized except the last one. In v2, if the warrior kills the 4 enemies in the corners (or the 4 in the cross), he can attack to the other 4 enemies without penalties because the target tile would not be adjacent to another enemy. Version2 uses exactly the same rules than ZoC and I guess it would be easier to implement. I'm glad you like it, because I think freeciv really needs some kind of tactical rule. I was working on a WW2 scenario and I realized that battles without research/building are plain boring. You just need to stack pile all your units in a fortress over the best defensive position and attack other locations from there. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?21239 ___ Mensaje enviado vía/por Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #21239] Optional rule: Penalty to attack due to ZoC
Follow-up Comment #5, bug #21239 (project freeciv): So essentially what you are saying is that as soon as a unit comes against multiple units, it will be at a disadvantage against all of them. I have to say i don't like that idea. Any attacker should be able to still move 'forward' and attack in one direction without penalty. Otherwise it is doomed as soon as it becomes adjacent to that second unit. You mentioned WW2, and it is in thinking about those battles that we have to consider this idea. Many of the great actions then were won by fast units breaking through enemy lines, and EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE ENEMIES ON BOTH SIDES, carrying the attack through to softer targets in the rear area. Your idea would make that practically impossible to simulate in game terms. I consider this separate from the defender in impassible terrain. I still agree that those attacks should be disallowed, or limited to pure bombardment. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?21239 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #21239] Optional rule: Penalty to attack due to ZoC
Follow-up Comment #6, bug #21239 (project freeciv): Attached image with visual example. Green line: normal attack Red line: ZoC penalized attack Blue line: varies from v1 to v2 (isolated unit always attacked without penalty in v2) I do not know how this rule would affect the AI, but it already likes to send waves of units that will be more effective with this optional rule than with current rules. (file #19294) ___ Additional Item Attachment: File name: ZoC_Penalty.jpgSize:154 KB ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?21239 ___ Mensaje enviado vía/por Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #21239] Optional rule: Penalty to attack due to ZoC
Follow-up Comment #7, bug #21239 (project freeciv): So essentially what you are saying is that as soon as a unit comes against multiple units, it will be at a disadvantage against all of them Yes, sounds to me like in practice this would give constant defense bonus for defense lines (where units on different tiles provide ZOC-protection to each other). AI does not build such lines, so maybe it wouldn't be big problem for someone playing against AI only (but would hurt any attempts of AI to attack human player defense lines). Line of fortresses (+50%, protection against stack-death) on hills-range (+50%) with fortified (+50%) units is already very hard to break even with superior units. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?21239 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #21239] Optional rule: Penalty to attack due to ZoC
Follow-up Comment #9, bug #21239 (project freeciv): My suggestion tries to make these waves of units a valid tactic, as we see in most wargames. I agree and if there is a possibility to control with Lua script these waves... it's very interesting. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?21239 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #21239] Optional rule: Penalty to attack due to ZoC
URL: http://gna.org/bugs/?21239 Summary: Optional rule: Penalty to attack due to ZoC Project: Freeciv Submitted by: bardo Submitted on: mar 29 oct 2013 11:25:47 GMT Category: rulesets Severity: 1 - Wish Priority: 5 - Normal Status: None Assigned to: None Originator Email: Open/Closed: Open Release: Discussion Lock: Any Operating System: None Planned Release: ___ Details: After some time playing other wargames, and reading about civ5 combat system, I figured out a simple rule that would make more tactical the combat in freeciv. The rule would be: When a unit is placed adjacent to an enemy unit, it receives a penalty to attack against other enemy units. Such rule would take advantage of the already implemented Zone of Control system and I think it could be easy to implement, though I'm not sure. With the current rules, I think the zone of control does not really affect the military tactics since it can be easely bypassed by using one single explorer or diplomat. And I always found it odd that you can attack an enemy unit placed in a tile that the ZoC rules do not allow you to move to. This weird effect becomes more evident when I enable the rule occupy chance = 100% (where units are forced to move to the target tile after a succesfully attack). With occupychance=100, in some cases units can destroy the enemy without moving to the target tile, due to the ZoC. My suggested rule would affect only those cases where the unit is already adjacent to an enemy and tries to attack another adjacent enemy, and it should not affect the attack against cities or fortresses. In my opinion, the result of this rule would be: - when you move your units in open field (out of cities or fortress), you can create a front of defensive units, and to force the enemy to attack your flancks first, in order to avoid this new ZoC penalty to attack. - it makes it easier to protect vulnerable units in open field without the need of fortress or mountains or stacking. If you advance with your artillery in the center of a squared formation (9 tiles), the enemy must destroy 4 of the surrounding units before they can attack the center tile without penalties. - it would be easier to survive for units surrounding a city. The sieged units placed inside the city would get this ZoC penalty to attack against all the surrounding units except the last one. - it would encourage to create different army compositions and different advancing formations to adapt to the terrain. This rule would be someway related to this request: bug #20945 ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?21239 ___ Mensaje enviado vía/por Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #21239] Optional rule: Penalty to attack due to ZoC
Follow-up Comment #1, bug #21239 (project freeciv): A similar rule easier to implement would be: do not allow to attack a tile where the unit can not move due to ZoC effect This way the limitation caused by ZoC would be the same for movement and attack. I personally prefer a customizable penalty to attack, but this one would also allow interesting tactics to protect your units, that I find very realistic, specially if ZoC is enabled for Naval units too. I'll see if I can create a patch for this one by myself, but I'd prefer to find some developer who find this rule interesting. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?21239 ___ Mensaje enviado vía/por Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #21239] Optional rule: Penalty to attack due to ZoC
Follow-up Comment #2, bug #21239 (project freeciv): There is a mistake in previous post... sorry. It must be possible to attack, but with a penalty. I'd rewrite it to: When a unit attacks a tile where it can not move due to ZoC effect, the defender gets a bonus to defense (for example +100%) ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?21239 ___ Mensaje enviado vía/por Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #21239] Optional rule: Penalty to attack due to ZoC
Follow-up Comment #3, bug #21239 (project freeciv): The first version is unworkable considering our units have no defined 'front'. If my Warriors are surrounded, which unit can i attack without penalty? However, i like the version in comment #2. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?21239 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
